Representative Democracy [Concluded]

[Schema]

Yes. Cuthilius-Schema very possible. But as I said earlier, death of one of Visor or Cuth confirms alignment of the other. Visor is good lynch candidate.

Lolno.

Monty, you're neglecting my townie posts and cherry picking the posts I've made for reactions. I didn't agree with the Sooh lynch early, I definitely didn't agree with it later and called her a townread of mine based on how she responded tonally to the lynch. CUTH came back and hard pushed the Sooh lynch at the end of the day. Vote mechanics and Cuth's actions are all you need to see. You're stretching, though. I applaud you for your reach.

[Renata]

Did choxorn make these reads when he was under suspicion, or before the fact?

If it was before the fact, the rule is more likely to hold due to there being less of a chance of him intentionally trying to subvert it.

Before. My read on him came after that post.

Choxorn voted Cuthillius for representative. Cuthillius was talking about the possibility of electing me instead of Dp (though he did nothing to push it). I'm pretty sure this happened after I was already voting choxorn. Pretty bold moves if these two are w/w, though I can hardly rule it out.

Cuthillius looked superficially townier to me towards end of day, but that was shallow; I need an iso.

You haven't really done anything to reassure me you are town.

[Jabbz]

Well, going into day 2 Dp is about as town cleared as you can get short of being killed and showing blue. No worries here voting for him again. Vote: Dp101. I'm a little curious where Schema got the idea that people couldn't be reelected. It seems kind of fishy for him to be trying to get power from an all but 100% clear towny, and that excuse seems weak, but I'll be willing to give em the benefit of the doubt.


'not use my power'

I don't have a power, I lied to get elected.





I just did it to get elected, not for reads, like I said, I figured I wouldn't get elected otherwise


So now that we know you've lied about that in an attempt to get access to the limited voting power, why should any of us trust you now?

[Montmorency]

why on earth would you lynch me over him?

:shrug:

[Renata]

Yes. Cuthilius-Schema very possible. But as I said earlier, death of one of Visor or Cuth confirms alignment of the other. Visor is good lynch candidate.

Since when?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Before. My read on him came after that post.

Choxorn voted Cuthillius for representative. Cuthillius was talking about the possibility of electing me instead of Dp (though he did nothing to push it). I'm pretty sure this happened after I was already voting choxorn. Pretty bold moves if these two are w/w, though I can hardly rule it out.

Cuthillius looked superficially townier to me towards end of day, but that was shallow; I need an iso.

You haven't really done anything to reassure me you are town.

Right now I'm just looking for information since the alternative is going back and reading, so thanks for that.

[Visor]

Well, going into day 2 Dp is about as town cleared as you can get short of being killed and showing blue. No worries here voting for him again. Vote: Dp101. I'm a little curious where Schema got the idea that people couldn't be reelected. It seems kind of fishy for him to be trying to get power from an all but 100% clear towny, and that excuse seems weak, but I'll be willing to give em the benefit of the doubt.






So now that we know you've lied about that in an attempt to get access to the limited voting power, why should any of us trust you now?

Here is the question: does the stunt I pulled make me more likely to be mafia?

[Montmorency]

Here is the question: does the stunt I pulled make me more likely to be mafia?

I would venture yes.


Since when?

Visor scum, Cuth town. Vice versa. The evidence I have in mind should not be obscure.

[Visor]

Why, Monty

[Renata]

I would venture yes.



Visor scum, Cuth town. Vice versa. The evidence I have in mind should not be obscure.

Explain it to me like I'm dull, because sometimes I am. Why is Visor scum if hes' going after villager Cuth? Why is Visor automatically right about Cuth if Visor is town?

[Montmorency]

Why, Monty

A false role claim...

:daisy: you. OK, I may disagree with it, but I recall that comment you made at the end of "Visor's Small Mafia". You're probably not scum.

Unvote: Visor


Lolno.

Monty, you're neglecting my townie posts and cherry picking the posts I've made for reactions. I didn't agree with the Sooh lynch early, I definitely didn't agree with it later and called her a townread of mine based on how she responded tonally to the lynch. CUTH came back and hard pushed the Sooh lynch at the end of the day. Vote mechanics and Cuth's actions are all you need to see. You're stretching, though. I applaud you for your reach.

What? You aligned with Cuth on pretty much everything.

[Montmorency]

By daisy, I don't mean to cuss Visor out but to express shock and other emotions. I am not intending to insult Visor.

[Montmorency]

Explain it to me like I'm dull, because sometimes I am. Why is Visor scum if hes' going after villager Cuth? Why is Visor automatically right about Cuth if Visor is town?

It would be a case of serious bussing if they are both scum, and not everyone subscribes to Pizza strategy. Also, bussing scum don't like to get third scum caught in the whirlpool.

I think it's very unlikely that both could be town.

[GeneralHankerchief]

It would be a case of serious bussing if they are both scum, and not everyone subscribes to Pizza strategy. Also, bussing scum don't like to get third scum caught in the whirlpool.

I think it's very unlikely that both could be town.

What even is the Pizza strategy at this point?

FWIW I think scum Visor is more likely to try to keep the entire team alive for as long as possible, so I don't see him trying to pull something weird like that off on D1.

[Montmorency]

What even is the Pizza strategy at this point?

What he's cursed/blessed us with over the past half-year. Specifically. :creep:

[Renata]

Just some very basic sorting to see where we stand.

seemingly consensus village

Renata
Cass
Dp
atheotes

personally I like:

Jabbz
Winston

Lots to go on but fear they could fool me:
Visor?
Schema?

Little to go on but nothing's alarming me:
dicetosser1

Confusing as heck
Montmorency

Dubious for tunnel on Jabbz?
Zack

Ought to be townier
GH

Iffy:

Cuthilius
Monstrbro

Damn near nothing to go on at all; these are why you know I'm not the vig:

BSmith
Csargo
Riedquat
El Barto
Al Sipsclar


Individual categories not sorted.

[Schema]

What? You aligned with Cuth on pretty much everything.

Ah, new target. Advance!

If Cuth was my wolf bro, why would I be in here posting firm complaints about his EOD instead of ignoring him or advancing the lynch Visor agenda? I posted an iffy to quick "scum lean" on Visor and he comes in and reads me 89% town but with no explanation. What even is that? Where's the townie paranoia? Felt like a firm pocket attempt for me and I was testing for it.

[Schema]

Damn near nothing to go on at all; these are why you know I'm not the vig:

BSmith
Csargo
Riedquat
El Barto
Al Sipsclar


Do you think we can ease suspicion off of low posting Al on the basis that Choxorn came in and voted him just before EOD, no case/build necessary?

[Renata]

Yes, I think that's a fairly safe guess. Choxorn was probably just trying to get his mandatory vote in. I'd forgotten about that.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Do you think we can ease suspicion off of low posting Al on the basis that Choxorn came in and voted him just before EOD, no case/build necessary?

I think this sort of thinking matters less than it would in a regular game due to the representation system.

[Schema]

Alright gotta finish some shopping. Be back later tonight.

[Schema]

I think this sort of thinking matters less than it would in a regular game due to the representation system.

Drawing attention to a relatively inactive slot, nevertheless. If scum is feeling pressure and needs the possibility of a new target the next day, in the event Choxorn gets lynched as he did.

Bye for reals now.

[Montmorency]

If Cuth was my wolf bro, why would I be in here posting firm complaints about his EOD instead of ignoring him or advancing the lynch Visor agenda?

But you were advancing Visor lynch, as much as anyone by that point. Anyway, that's the business of scumming. Lightly probing someone doesn't say much. It doesn't mean you are scum or that he is your partner, but I don't believe this kind of claim -


I posted an iffy to quick "scum lean" on Visor and he comes in and reads me 89% town but with no explanation. What even is that? Where's the townie paranoia? Felt like a firm pocket attempt for me and I was testing for it.

distances you from him if he flips scum.

[Zack]

lolvisor, lolmonty

[Cuthillius]

Monty, your reasoning.

To me it looks like

V/C probs not bussing, visor suspicious, ergo v/w or w/v

explain, please

i did read both of your posts

---

that said i'm surprised anyone took visor's doublevote claim seriously irregardless of what alignment they thought he was

i don't think the fact that he didn't doublevote yesterday either disproves it or means that he was a lying scum

---

i asked renata to vote herself for rep, i wasn't going to take my vote off of myself if she wasn't going to bother

basically i was asking for commitment on her part to being willing to rep

that didn't happen, so i didn't vote there

---

vote:Dp101

---

not sure where i want to go with the lynch yet

[Zack]

I would say see you in 48 hours but i'm not going to be elected to anything anytime soon so it's basically pointless for me to do anything

i'm definitely a pr you should nightkill me

[Zack]

irregardless

3 characters

[Cuthillius]

not sure what to think about schema campaigning for district 1

[Renata]

I would say see you in 48 hours but i'm not going to be elected to anything anytime soon so it's basically pointless for me to do anything

i'm definitely a pr you should nightkill me

:stare:

No, you don't.

[Zack]

frymooning.gif

[Montmorency]

V/C probs not bussing, visor suspicious, ergo v/w or w/v

That's the core of it.

[Cuthillius]

zack, thoughts on visor

[Cuthillius]

That's the core of it.

can you, uh, elaborate on the bit between "visor was suspicious" and "ergo"

[Zack]

zack, thoughts on visor

lolvisoring in a townie way

[Montmorency]

can you, uh, elaborate on the bit between "visor was suspicious" and "ergo"

There's a "," between those clauses.

[Visor]

Sup lolcuth

[Dp101]

Voting the next person to say lol, it does not help in catching scum.

[Winston Hughes]

Dplol?

[Zack]

Voting the next person to say lol, it does not help in catching scum.

voting the next person to use punctuation, doesn't help catching scum

[Zack]

oh and lol

lol

lol

[Montmorency]

smh is an acronym that has become popular just recently

smhZack

it means "smoke mad herb"

:shame:

[Zack]

vote me already you goddamn coward

don't make ultimatums you won't follow through on

[Winston Hughes]

I'm going to put myself forward for rep today, on the grounds that I will be around at eod to make sure Cass gets the final decision once again (and I promise to do this even if it means putting myself in the firing line).

Vote: Winston

This does not mean, however, that I won't be putting forth my own arguments. I'll be around on-and-off over the next 24 hours if anyone wishes to interact, but I'm mostly going to be reading and thinking, with a view to setting out some cases in the latter half of the day.

[Renata]

vote: Zack

Stop kicking the puppy.

And do something.

vote:Dp101

[Zack]

bite me renata

[Zack]

i had the most posts on d1 and i was completely ignored

so bite me

[Renata]

:(

I didn't ignore you but I did change my mind on Jabbz.

[Jabbz]

You are avoiding answering the real question here, which is why should we trust anything you say from this point on. Whether or not it makes it more likely you are mafia doesn't matter if I can't trust what you write to be true.

[Zack]

there are 3 people in this game who matter and i'm not one of them

you can call me a butthurt loser but i don't care

i'm not going to feel bad about anything

my thoughts are mostly unchanged from d1 so look there if you want to pretend to care what i have to say

[Renata]

there are 3 people in this game who matter and i'm not one of them

you can call me a butthurt loser but i don't care

i'm not going to feel bad about anything

my thoughts are mostly unchanged from d1 so look there if you want to pretend to care what i have to say

This doesn't seem like you.

[Zack]

This doesn't seem like you.

that means a lot to someone i haven't talked to in 5 years? lol

[Montmorency]

You are avoiding answering the real question here, which is why should we trust anything you say from this point on. Whether or not it makes it more likely you are mafia doesn't matter if I can't trust what you write to be true.

By the by, Visor has come out elsewhere in favor of vanillas drawing kills. Plus, he like screwing around. Adds up.

It could of course be a straight WIFOM on his part but it's not a sure shot anymore.

[Renata]

I mean, even if you're unhappy you're the only one reading Jabbz as scum, so what? Or the representative system, so what? You would't have gotten Jabbz lynched yesterday in a regular format anyway, and there's other scum in the sea. You really think town can win this with only three people playing? I know you don't, so what's going on?

Tell me your other reads, because I've forgotten and don't intend to do any actual work until tomorrow when I'm not entertaining a sick kid half the time.

[Montmorency]

that means a lot to someone i haven't talked to in 5 years? lol

Personality meld. Don't deny it.

[Renata]

By the by, Visor has come out elsewhere in favor of vanillas drawing kills. Plus, he like screwing around. Adds up.

It could of course be a straight WIFOM on his part but it's not a sure shot anymore.

Is there a reason you're not voting Cuthilius?

[Montmorency]

Is there a reason you're not voting Cuthilius?

Is there a reason I should be? I'm down with the lynch. Until someone else advances a topic I'm down to peevishness and com-posting.

[Zack]

You really think town can win this with only three people playing?

worked pretty well in pirate ship 2

[Jabbz]

By the by, Visor has come out elsewhere in favor of vanillas drawing kills. Plus, he like screwing around. Adds up.

It could of course be a straight WIFOM on his part but it's not a sure shot anymore.

Anyone else able to corroborate this? Not that I don't trust you Mont, just don't know you.
Zack The idea that only three people matter here is absurd. I'm pretty sure no town makes their voting decision in a vacuum, or based only on their own reads. The only way your contributions wouldn't matter would be if you are town trying to spread the suspicion evenly in order to confuse things. Since I'm not reading this as you are saying you're scum, your help would be appreciated.

[Cuthillius]

voting the next person to use punctuation, doesn't help catching scum

fine by me

it is kinda passe

[Cuthillius]

vote: Zack

Stop kicking the puppy.

And do something.

vote:Dp101

i like you

[Renata]

Is there a reason I should be? I'm down with the lynch. Until someone else advances a topic I'm down to peevishness and com-posting.

Not voting Visor anymore, certain Visor/Cuth is one wolf, one villager, etc.

[Cuthillius]

By the by, Visor has come out elsewhere in favor of vanillas drawing kills. Plus, he like screwing around. Adds up.

It could of course be a straight WIFOM on his part but it's not a sure shot anymore.

introduce me to someone who isn't in favor of vanillas drawing kills

[Zack]

Anyone else able to corroborate this? Not that I don't trust you Mont, just don't know you.
Zack The idea that only three people matter here is absurd. I'm pretty sure no town makes their voting decision in a vacuum, or based only on their own reads. The only way your contributions wouldn't matter would be if you are town trying to spread the suspicion evenly in order to confuse things. Since I'm not reading this as you are saying you're scum, your help would be appreciated.

really shocked you think this makes me look bad

SHOCKED

[Renata]

i like you

Oh god.

[Montmorency]

introduce me to someone who isn't in favor of vanillas drawing kills

*raises hand*

Not the same thing as 'vanillas being killed', mind you. Most people are generally against false role-claims.

But I didn't have this scruple before, I could abandon it again. :shrug:

[Montmorency]

Not voting Visor anymore, certain Visor/Cuth is one wolf, one villager, etc.

Put me on record. Keep it on record. I will not deny or obscure it. However, I probably only officially lodge the vote if it looks like changing it is a real possibility, or for the ultimate daily requirement.

[Jabbz]

really shocked you think this makes me look bad

SHOCKED

Guilty conscience much mate?

I wasn't implying, insinuating, or making the argument that your actions made you look bad. Please not the "I'm not reading this as you are saying you're scum, your help would be appreciated."

I get that you have an issue with me bud, that's honestly fine. Until you can find a good argument as to why I should be lynched however, you could engage in the game and actively help, or I suppose you could act petulant and oppressed, then eat a lynch instead of letting us lynch scum. There are always multiple options.

[Zack]

Guilty conscience much mate?

I wasn't implying, insinuating, or making the argument that your actions made you look bad. Please not the "I'm not reading this as you are saying you're scum, your help would be appreciated."

I get that you have an issue with me bud, that's honestly fine. Until you can find a good argument as to why I should be lynched however, you could engage in the game and actively help, or I suppose you could act petulant and oppressed, then eat a lynch instead of letting us lynch scum. There are always multiple options.
I thought I was a wolf, but you're talking like you know I'm townie now.

[Monstrdude]

From yesterday's events we have hard-cleared Renata, Cass, DP101, and (nearly-so) atheotes. They are inarguably the towniest players now.

Let's talk about the Choxorn affair in its sequence:

Early game vote for Zack.



Later entry, with town reads on Renata, Cuth, and GH, expressing agreement with Zack on subject of role claims.



Final post for the time, a comment on Jabbz' posting.



Renata makes her negative assessment of Choxorn's entry (835).

Immediately after, Visor joins in condemning the Choxorn post.



A few minutes later, he posts a comprehensive reads/leans list, marking Renata as lock town for her drawing attention to Choxorn, and making his own read on Choxorn as "wolfy". He puts Choxorn as lynch candidate above only Cuthilius and El Barto. One of his reads is a frivolous comment on Riedquat.



Then Visor makes an addendum to his reads post, for little value. With Riedquat having only one post at the time, there was no point in speaking like this of him, giving leans. "Possibly town" on a hunch???

"Need a few flips" to feel comfortable with reads is unimpressive in itself, all the more so when he had no problem with discomfort throughout the day or immediately prior to this post.



Atheotes remarks that Renata is trending up for her Choxorn case.

Winston finds Renata's flow towny. Winston responds to one of Choxorn's posts with a complaint.



Jabbz responds to Choxorn's lament on textwalls, sticking to his disappointment with Zack.



Cass' notes on Choxorn's main post~.



Monstrbro thinks Renata is town.



Monstrbro comments on Cuth-Chox. Choxorn evaluated overall as barely villagery.




Atheotes votes Choxorn.

Sooh's attack on atheotes gets well underway. This casts a small shadow over her. Renata, Zack, and others defend atheotes. Cuthilius is willing to vote Renata for rep over DP101 as more reliable or robust (999).

Cuthilius finds Renata's reads on Monstrbro towny (991).

Schema sees Renata trending up and acknowledges Choxorn's posts, asks for meta on him.



Schema takes full scum lean on Visor.



Cuth speculates on how scumChox votes. Switches back to voting Sooh shortly after.



DP comes in to put himself up for the Rep position and votes Choxorn (1025)

Sooh finally votes atheotes after this, looks to win the position of District Rep (1047).

Schema likes Sooh and doesn't like Atheotes.



Schema votes Renata for rep (1123).

On page 39, Bsmith changes rep vote to Visor ("to test double vote") and Sooh changes rep vote to Zack.

Atheotes petitions Cass on the lynch.



Sooh hardclaims Watcher (1170).

Chox substantively closes the day by showing up EOD to vote Al Sipsclar, who a bit earlier appeared to make ritual-vote on BSmith and said little else (1175).

All of this looks clearing for DP, Cass, and Renata, and overwhelming in favor of Atheotes on top of previous behavior. But rather than assessing others in relation to them, right now the focus is on how Visor relates to it.


Visor's tone changes notably in his final activity of the day, which comes right after Renata opens the case on Choxorn. His claimed double-vote never manifests. Strikingly, he makes numerous pleas toward prospective Reps to vote Cuth with him. This is striking because even one (of the two other) reps voting with Visor would conceal any double vote effect should it exist, since 2-1 is indistinguishable on our part from 3-1: the result is the same. His calls for consolidation were just meant to erect a front that would give him a pass from putting up.


I'd also like to broach what I was hinting at earlier respecting the claim. Look here at Visor's comment just prior to Chox events that



This is in other words a statement that he would not use his power on D2, toward the end of avoiding a burnout. I think his statement reflects the broader mechanical truth that Pizza would never grant a player, town or Mafia, an unlimited double vote. It could conceivably be more than a one-shot, but at best it would have an alternate-day effect. Visor was laying ground to avert consequences from future inconsistencies, without admitting details of the power. Since Visor went inactive before EOD, and DP had not voted Choxorn yet, and District 1 was still up in the air between Renata, Cuth, and DP, there is no argument that Visor is cleared by virtue of not taking action to save Choxorn, who anyway was killed by tiebreaker ability.
One of Cuth or Visor must be scum, opposite alignment. Who Cuth is in turn sheds light on Sooh, since Cuth was one of the few to carry a renewed push against Sooh late in the day. There is also a technical scenario in which Visor and Cuth were furiously bussing, and Visor never planned to apply special powers to lynch him. However, most players do not like the strategy of intense bussing from D1, and regardless it does not lessen the need to lynch Visor.

EDIT: Sooh is town, as we now know. Pending...

This dude is always a villager

[Monstrdude]

'not use my power'

I don't have a power, I lied to get elected.

You'd all find some excuse not to vote me in so I forced yo her hand to do so.

Well done cass.

Monty/cuth look awful. Cuth progression on schema is literally bizarre, will show in a few hours.

I disagree 100% tho

[Monstrdude]

I was quite certain that you were lying.

My opening post was a multilayered extravaganza, but the initial inspiration came from your ludicrous claim.

I supported you, and continue to believe that you are most likely town, because it's a bloody idiotic thing to do if you're actually scum, and is still most likely to end up with you getting lynched.

Visor/Winston never w/w

This post is probably more for me than the rest of you but let it be known that I said it

[Monstrdude]

Watcher being a role in this game surprises me greatly, as it's not exactly a fun role but it makes.sense with the setup

Just wondering if it makes 5 wolves total likely cause I think it might which is annoying, given the voting mechanics can likely be pro wolf

The voting mechanics seem almost heavily pro wolf to the point where I was legitimately surprised a wolf actually got lynched

I figured it would be d1 mash syndrome amplified to the extreme but I think the fact that there actually really multiple representatives actually makes it wonkily balanced because it takes away wolf number power and replaces it with a single wolf with a louder voice

[Monstrdude]

He had something going on with he would be willing to vote me for rep, or some such; he may have bee the one who said I was better than an easily-pocketed Dp. I don't remember the details so won't comment on it further right now.

From Monty's wall of quotes I'd say that choxorn related spew throws a little shade on Cuth and on GH for the soft town leans, and probably a little more than than on Monstrobro for what seems like a particularly contorted slight-villa read on choxorn.

I will need to go back and verify for myself that Monty didn't leave anything out.

You must have learned something from reactions to your double-voter claim.

I don't remember if I villa read choxorn early or not but I definitely wanted him lynched over both barto and cuthillius

[Monstrdude]

Just some very basic sorting to see where we stand.

seemingly consensus village

Renata
Cass
Dp
atheotes

personally I like:

Jabbz
Winston

Lots to go on but fear they could fool me:
Visor?
Schema?

Little to go on but nothing's alarming me:
dicetosser1

Confusing as heck
Montmorency

Dubious for tunnel on Jabbz?
Zack

Ought to be townier
GH

Iffy:

Cuthilius
Monstrbro

Damn near nothing to go on at all; these are why you know I'm not the vig:

BSmith
Csargo
Riedquat
El Barto
Al Sipsclar


Individual categories not sorted.

What makes me so "iffy" from your perspective?

[Monstrdude]

The Al Sipsclar post from choxorn at the end of the day ALMOST felt like a desperate attempt to spew a wolf clear but it's so little information it really could go either way

I want to say its something, but it's probably nothing

[Renata]

I don't remember if I villa read choxorn early or not but I definitely wanted him lynched over both barto and cuthillius

Did you say so? Because you definitely did villa read choxorn -- it's right there in Monty's wall of words that you said you were so impressed by. Didn't actually read it,did you?

[Monstrdude]

I kinda think El Barto is a villager? I'm not sure I have the stones to make that read confidently but his post about me when he said he wasn't sure about what it was that I did that pinged him pseudo pocketed me

I don't think my villager list has changed you're all villagery and we lynched a wolf

[Monstrdude]

Did you say so? Because you definitely did villa read choxorn -- it's right there in Monty's wall of words that you said you were so impressed by. Didn't actually read it,did you?

At the end of the day I asked him "wow is that really all you have to say?" Then said "glgl" but, yeah I said "don't lynch cuth" and "El barto seems like a meh lynch" so yeah, by PoE I was most supporting choxorn

I already explained to you I play this game backwards. I'd hve voted choxorn if my vote mattered at all

[Montmorency]

Before you get to my reversal, Monstr - and Jabbz - here's Visor's recent reminder on how he likes to approach certain things in towngame.


my vanilla townie and scum games have become indistinguishable, as in both I just aim to survive.

you do know that when you are a vanilla townie you WANT to draw a nightkill right?



a) I want to die
b) I am the only person I fully trust to make the right decisions?

[Monstrdude]

And if choxorn is who you asked me to I remember explicitly stating "lightly villagery because 3 posts and most people are villagers most of the time"

That's all gone when you come in at EoD going "lol lynch this guy who hasn't been in the thread for hours even though this vote doesn't matter also I have nothing else to say."

Thats not even remotely villagery

[Monstrdude]

I kinda suspect cuth a little bit because that could have been a "I need to save choxorn and myself " play at EoD going after sooh

She was obviously always what she said she was

I know that goes back on what I said about cuth and my villager list earlier but I need to air it out

Plus iirc he was the one saying she was acting how she was always acting

Then suddenly pr claim and she's wolfy

[Monstrdude]

It sucks because I know that it's really tough to make the right call in this game I just can't tell whether he legitimately suspected her or just needed her dead

[Monstrdude]

again

or maybe not again given i didn't go into this as much earlier

he is going after people less like a bitter pedantic normal visor

i genuinely don't think he believes what he's saying

his arguments and defenses of himself sounds like he thinks sooh is scummy but that he knows he's scum

and it does feel a tiniest bit cftwr to me


i was taking issue with your stance of only/most noticable person without towny posts>scum

i think that position is contrived

particularly given that i personally am seeing sooh's normal behavior

and i'm not becoming less convinced that you're scum

but mostly not because of the push


yeah sooh's probably scum

i don't suppose i could convince you to claim your actual role, sooh


renata do you want dp to end up as rep

if so vote him

if not either vote yourself or myself

we only have like an hour left and i'm going to leave soonish

This is all stuff that happened around the time the wagons were forming to cuth-choxorn and it seemed like he was trying to take his district and replace choxorn with sooh

I mean, that would give tons of credence to El barto being a villager, which would make Winston more likely to be a wolf and also I suspect Winston, so thanks to confirmation bias this is all now guaranteed to be true your welcome

(It's not because cuth has a village list that lessens support of this theory in that it doesn't include any of the potential wolf candidates)

But who knows. It seems like one of him and visor is likely to be a wolf at least

[Monstrdude]

Also Winston made a villagery post today

I just don't like games where all the scum are in the low volume players it's boring

[Monstrdude]

Monstrbro
Posts 163
Zack
Posts 160
Renata
Posts 123
Montmorency
Posts 116
Visor
Posts 95
Cass_
Posts 84
Cuthillius
Posts 72
Sooh
Posts 53
Dp101
Posts 49
Schema
Posts 47
atheotes
Posts 45
Winston Hughes
Posts 40
Jabbz
Posts 29
GeneralHankerchief
Posts 20
Askthepizzaguy
Posts 19
dicetosser1
Posts 18
El Barto
Posts 6
Csargo
Posts 5
Choxorn
Posts 4
BSmith
Posts 1
Riedquat
Posts 1
Al Sipsclar
Posts 1

I mean for real tho

[Monstrdude]

Either one or more of the 1 posters is scum or we have a deepwolf and that's just a fact

[Cuthillius]

I kinda suspect cuth a little bit because that could have been a "I need to save choxorn and myself " play at EoD going after sooh

She was obviously always what she said she was

I know that goes back on what I said about cuth and my villager list earlier but I need to air it out

Plus iirc he was the one saying she was acting how she was always acting

Then suddenly pr claim and she's wolfy

except there was literally no threat towards me

cass was never going to choose me as the lynch

i thought the pr claim was bad

i thought visor got more towny nearer the end

[Cuthillius]

Either one or more of the 1 posters is scum or we have a deepwolf and that's just a fact

i don't think it's a stretch to say that there's probably a -10-poster wolf

[Cuthillius]

how do you feel about gh

[Monstrdude]

[QUOTE=Cuthillius;2053730455]except there was literally no threat towards me

cass was never going to choose me as the lynch

i thought the pr claim was bad

i thought visor got more towny nearer the end [/spoiler]

I am taking all possibilities into account

I am far from lynching you first, I just needed to say that before it killed me from the inside.

[Monstrdude]

how do you feel about gh

I think he has had like 2 scummy posts and a bunch of non indicative ones

[Monstrdude]

Lemme reiso him

[Monstrdude]

Morning all.

Slight scumleans for everyone who was going on about mechanics, etc. a few pages back. That's Sooh, Cass_, maybe one or two others, right?

Slight townleans for the people who wanted us to get back on track.

DP101 looks good, though I do agree with Winston on the "confidence" bit.
Visor looks good.
No read on Jabbz, not sure where all the positive leans are coming from.

Winston seems relaxed and engaged, I'll give him a townlean for now.

The case(s) I made for Zack being Chancellor after my initial long essay post are genuine and I have no plans on changing my Chancellor vote.

This post is kinda all over the place and seems like a list of incomplete thoughts

There was another post later that looked like it could have been something

[Renata]

At the end of the day I asked him "wow is that really all you have to say?" Then said "glgl" but, yeah I said "don't lynch cuth" and "El barto seems like a meh lynch" so yeah, by PoE I was most supporting choxorn

I already explained to you I play this game backwards. I'd hve voted choxorn if my vote mattered at all

You avoided my question about whether you'd actually read Monty's wall. Obviously you didn't. So that's a strike: you went all hey look townie here on Monty for something you didn't read.

By POE? Show me you ever actually supporting choxorn's lynch. As far as I'm aware you ended the day with "don't lynch cuth", "el barto lynch is meh" (both your words just now) and "choxorn seems slightly villa" (from Monty's wall).

[Monstrdude]

Did choxorn make these reads when he was under suspicion, or before the fact?

If it was before the fact, the rule is more likely to hold due to there being less of a chance of him intentionally trying to subvert it.

This one seems a little w/w-y


Yes. Cuthilius-Schema very possible. But as I said earlier, death of one of Visor or Cuth confirms alignment of the other. Visor is good lynch candidate.

This is a false dichotomy though totally unrelated but I spotted it and yeah this isn't necessarily true in all cases, or even this one!

[Monstrdude]

You avoided my question about whether you'd actually read Monty's wall. Obviously you didn't. So that's a strike: you went all hey look townie here on Monty for something you didn't read.

By POE? Show me you ever actually supporting choxorn's lynch. As far as I'm aware you ended the day with "don't lynch cuth", "el barto lynch is meh" (both your words just now) and "choxorn seems slightly villa" (from Monty's wall).

I play this game backwards and find villagers

By PoE the only viable wagons were choxorn, cuth, El barto

I didnt support cuth or El barto

Ergo who did I support

This is basic logic

Sorry that I don't fully read everything but I just don't. It's not necessary for my process. I find villagers based on how they post. I don't specifically care what people post exactly most of the time, and especially not if it's in a giant post like that. No, I didnt fully read it but I caught the gist, and his clears from choxorn lined up with mine and while I don't agree with a visor lynch, I think it's villagery that he continues the line.

I never avoided your question, I answered it exactly like this

Monstrman 1 Renaturkey sandwich 0

[Monstrdude]

And no, I didn't end the day with choxorn seems villa at all

That is absolutely false

[Renata]

This is all stuff that happened around the time the wagons were forming to cuth-choxorn and it seemed like he was trying to take his district and replace choxorn with sooh

I mean, that would give tons of credence to El barto being a villager, which would make Winston more likely to be a wolf and also I suspect Winston, so thanks to confirmation bias this is all now guaranteed to be true your welcome

(It's not because cuth has a village list that lessens support of this theory in that it doesn't include any of the potential wolf candidates)

But who knows. It seems like one of him and visor is likely to be a wolf at least

I'll give you credit for the posts you quoted here, if not necessarily for the train of thought following. That is an absolutely ridiculous reversal on Sooh from Cuthillius and I don't see a townie explanation for it.

[Renata]

And no, I didn't end the day with choxorn seems villa at all

That is absolutely false

Show me you ever reversing yourself from where you said just that earlier in the day.

[Monstrdude]

Show me you ever reversing yourself from where you said just that earlier in the day.

Right at the end just like I said when I questioned him

Prove that me questioning him isn't reversing myself

Oh you can't that's right, because you're too busy stuck in your own biased perspective

Monstrman 2 Renata 0

[Renata]

Right at the end just like I said when I questioned him

Prove that me questioning him isn't reversing myself

Oh you can't that's right, because you're too busy stuck in your own biased perspective

Monstrman 2 Renata 0

:) You're fun.

I'll check up on it when I'm ready to do work.

[Monstrdude]

Anyway I was in the middle of isoing GH so I'm gonna keep doing that

Have fun with endless posts by Monstrbro everybody else

[Monstrdude]

:) You're fun.

I'll check up on it when I'm ready to do work.

I am nothing if not a monstrman

<3

[Monstrdude]

If GH if scum he's done a really good job of not really connecting himself to choxorn in a damning way

Doesn't seem like he's added much to the thread

Overall I lean wolf still, but there was ONE villagery post he had. I hope the one posters make more meaningful posts today

[Monstrdude]

And now I wait until more people show up

Glgl glgl

[dicetosser1]

From yesterday's events we have hard-cleared Renata, Cass, DP101, and (nearly-so) atheotes. They are inarguably the towniest players now.



So you have cop views on all these players do you? I assume otherwise how could you be hard clearing them? Just because they voted scum? Ever heard of bussing?

Unless there are confirmed results that clear someone noone is lock clear. They might be consensus town. they might seem super town but they are not CLEARED.

I dont trust you. I think your scum. And if i can get you lynched and then you do flip scum im going hunting in the people you just hard cleared cause theres almost bound to be 1 scum in there.



Visor's tone changes notably in his final activity of the day, which comes right after Renata opens the case on Choxorn. His claimed double-vote never manifests. Strikingly, he makes numerous pleas toward prospective Reps to vote Cuth with him. This is striking because even one (of the two other) reps voting with Visor would conceal any double vote effect should it exist, since 2-1 is indistinguishable on our part from 3-1: the result is the same. His calls for consolidation were just meant to erect a front that would give him a pass from putting up.


I'd also like to broach what I was hinting at earlier respecting the claim. Look here at Visor's comment just prior to Chox events that



This is in other words a statement that he would not use his power on D2, toward the end of avoiding a burnout. I think his statement reflects the broader mechanical truth that Pizza would never grant a player, town or Mafia, an unlimited double vote. It could conceivably be more than a one-shot, but at best it would have an alternate-day effect. Visor was laying ground to avert consequences from future inconsistencies, without admitting details of the power. Since Visor went inactive before EOD, and DP had not voted Choxorn yet, and District 1 was still up in the air between Renata, Cuth, and DP, there is no argument that Visor is cleared by virtue of not taking action to save Choxorn, who anyway was killed by tiebreaker ability.
One of Cuth or Visor must be scum, opposite alignment. Who Cuth is in turn sheds light on Sooh, since Cuth was one of the few to carry a renewed push against Sooh late in the day. There is also a technical scenario in which Visor and Cuth were furiously bussing, and Visor never planned to apply special powers to lynch him. However, most players do not like the strategy of intense bussing from D1, and regardless it does not lessen the need to lynch Visor.

EDIT: Sooh is town, as we now know. Pending...



So any chance of you ever getting out of this tunnel?

Also the Red. We have now been told that visor is in fact not a DV by visor. Id like to know how YOU knew here BEFORE he said he lied, that his DV wasnt used.

[Monstrdude]

So any chance of you ever getting out of this tunnel?

Also the Red. We have now been told that visor is in fact not a DV by visor. Id like to know how YOU knew here BEFORE he said he lied, that his DV wasnt used.

Because at the end of the day cuth would have been lynched if it was true

[Zack]

So any chance of you ever getting out of this tunnel?

Also the Red. We have now been told that visor is in fact not a DV by visor. Id like to know how YOU knew here BEFORE he said he lied, that his DV wasnt used.

it was a 3-way tie, which would have been impossible if visor was a doublevoter

[Monstrdude]

it was a 3-way tie, which would have been impossible if visor was a doublevoter

^^ sup zack

[Monstrdude]

Zack what do you think of montmorency?

[Montmorency]

So any chance of you ever getting out of this tunnel?

Also the Red. We have now been told that visor is in fact not a DV by visor. Id like to know how YOU knew here BEFORE he said he lied, that his DV wasnt used.

I'm not going to respond to your (bad) comment, but I will respond to this:


Unless there are confirmed results that clear someone noone is lock clear. They might be consensus town. they might seem super town but they are not CLEARED.

I dont trust you. I think your scum. And if i can get you lynched and then you do flip scum im going hunting in the people you just hard cleared cause theres almost bound to be 1 scum in there.

The only thing that genuinely hard-clears is a result from the host. Short of that, those people are CLEAR. You do not get clearer than this while living. Come off it.

[Monstrdude]

dicetosser1

What's your read of Schema?

[Monstrdude]

Schema what do you think of Winston?

[Monstrdude]

Renata

Can you remind me why you're clearing Winston?

I mean, if I'm wrong in my suspicion of him I want to know why

[dicetosser1]

From yesterday's events we have hard-cleared Renata, Cass, DP101, and (nearly-so) atheotes. They are inarguably the towniest players now.

Let's talk about the Choxorn affair in its sequence:

Early game vote for Zack.



Later entry, with town reads on Renata, Cuth, and GH, expressing agreement with Zack on subject of role claims.



Final post for the time, a comment on Jabbz' posting.



Renata makes her negative assessment of Choxorn's entry (835).

Immediately after, Visor joins in condemning the Choxorn post.



A few minutes later, he posts a comprehensive reads/leans list, marking Renata as lock town for her drawing attention to Choxorn, and making his own read on Choxorn as "wolfy". He puts Choxorn as lynch candidate above only Cuthilius and El Barto. One of his reads is a frivolous comment on Riedquat.



Then Visor makes an addendum to his reads post, for little value. With Riedquat having only one post at the time, there was no point in speaking like this of him, giving leans. "Possibly town" on a hunch???

"Need a few flips" to feel comfortable with reads is unimpressive in itself, all the more so when he had no problem with discomfort throughout the day or immediately prior to this post.



Atheotes remarks that Renata is trending up for her Choxorn case.

Winston finds Renata's flow towny. Winston responds to one of Choxorn's posts with a complaint.



Jabbz responds to Choxorn's lament on textwalls, sticking to his disappointment with Zack.



Cass' notes on Choxorn's main post~.



Monstrbro thinks Renata is town.



Monstrbro comments on Cuth-Chox. Choxorn evaluated overall as barely villagery.




Atheotes votes Choxorn.

Sooh's attack on atheotes gets well underway. This casts a small shadow over her. Renata, Zack, and others defend atheotes. Cuthilius is willing to vote Renata for rep over DP101 as more reliable or robust (999).

Cuthilius finds Renata's reads on Monstrbro towny (991).

Schema sees Renata trending up and acknowledges Choxorn's posts, asks for meta on him.



Schema takes full scum lean on Visor.



Cuth speculates on how scumChox votes. Switches back to voting Sooh shortly after.



DP comes in to put himself up for the Rep position and votes Choxorn (1025)

Sooh finally votes atheotes after this, looks to win the position of District Rep (1047).

Schema likes Sooh and doesn't like Atheotes.



Schema votes Renata for rep (1123).

On page 39, Bsmith changes rep vote to Visor ("to test double vote") and Sooh changes rep vote to Zack.

Atheotes petitions Cass on the lynch.



Sooh hardclaims Watcher (1170).

Chox substantively closes the day by showing up EOD to vote Al Sipsclar, who a bit earlier appeared to make ritual-vote on BSmith and said little else (1175).

All of this looks clearing for DP, Cass, and Renata, and overwhelming in favor of Atheotes on top of previous behavior. But rather than assessing others in relation to them, right now the focus is on how Visor relates to it.


Visor's tone changes notably in his final activity of the day, which comes right after Renata opens the case on Choxorn. His claimed double-vote never manifests. Strikingly, he makes numerous pleas toward prospective Reps to vote Cuth with him. This is striking because even one (of the two other) reps voting with Visor would conceal any double vote effect should it exist, since 2-1 is indistinguishable on our part from 3-1: the result is the same. His calls for consolidation were just meant to erect a front that would give him a pass from putting up.


I'd also like to broach what I was hinting at earlier respecting the claim. Look here at Visor's comment just prior to Chox events that



This is in other words a statement that he would not use his power on D2, toward the end of avoiding a burnout. I think his statement reflects the broader mechanical truth that Pizza would never grant a player, town or Mafia, an unlimited double vote. It could conceivably be more than a one-shot, but at best it would have an alternate-day effect. Visor was laying ground to avert consequences from future inconsistencies, without admitting details of the power. Since Visor went inactive before EOD, and DP had not voted Choxorn yet, and District 1 was still up in the air between Renata, Cuth, and DP, there is no argument that Visor is cleared by virtue of not taking action to save Choxorn, who anyway was killed by tiebreaker ability.
One of Cuth or Visor must be scum, opposite alignment. Who Cuth is in turn sheds light on Sooh, since Cuth was one of the few to carry a renewed push against Sooh late in the day. There is also a technical scenario in which Visor and Cuth were furiously bussing, and Visor never planned to apply special powers to lynch him. However, most players do not like the strategy of intense bussing from D1, and regardless it does not lessen the need to lynch Visor.

EDIT: Sooh is town, as we now know. Pending...


Feel bad about Sooh taking the hit and from what it looks like not having a good experience with this game, but in terms of the outcome that's a trade I'm pretty happy with.

THIS i dont like. the first bit feels fake. The last bit has me thinking that its true. For scum.

[dicetosser1]

sorry i dont know why that big quote was still there

[Montmorency]

What?

[El Barto]

The last 700-odd posts before last Day ended I didn't read. So vote: El Barto, pre-emptively, and I'll attempt to read the 150-odd posts from today.

[dicetosser1]

Because at the end of the day cuth would have been lynched if it was true


it was a 3-way tie, which would have been impossible if visor was a doublevoter


Are either of you named montmorency? No? Then how about you let people answer for themselves in future.




I'm not going to respond to your (bad) comment, but I will respond to this:



The only thing that genuinely hard-clears is a result from the host. Short of that, those people are CLEAR. You do not get clearer than this while living. Come off it.



Why shouldn't hard-cleared DP stay as Rep, Schema?

See this quote just above? thats the SECOND time your pushing for them to be HARD CLEARED. Your pushing it hard. So dont give me that come off it bs. Im pages behind how many more times am i going to find you pushing this as i catch up?

Also they are NOT clear any of them could have been bussing a partner for cred or have you never heard of that being done? They may be MORE LIKELY to be town but that is not CLEAR. get it?

[Monstrdude]

The last 700-odd posts before last Day ended I didn't read. So vote: El Barto, pre-emptively, and I'll attempt to read the 150-odd posts from today.

A lot of them were me

Hello friend, I await your reads because clearing or condemning your slot is of utmost importance!*

*
This statement has not been evaluated by the FDA

[Monstrdude]

Are either of you named montmorency? No? Then how about you let people answer for themselves in future.








See this quote just above? thats the SECOND time your pushing for them to be HARD CLEARED. Your pushing it hard. So dont give me that come off it bs. Im pages behind how many more times am i going to find you pushing this as i catch up?

Also they are NOT clear any of them could have been bussing a partner for cred or have you never heard of that being done? They may be MORE LIKELY to be town but that is not CLEAR. get it?

String dicetosser1;
dicetosser1 = "villager";

I'd have coded it better but I'm lazy

[Dp101]

Dice town, Monty lean town, Zack lean mafia.

[El Barto]

OK, I'm quoting six because that odd feature where you are sent to the compose message page whenever you enqueue your sixth post has kicked in again.


there are 3 people in this game who matter and i'm not one of them

you can call me a butthurt loser but i don't care

i'm not going to feel bad about anything

my thoughts are mostly unchanged from d1 so look there if you want to pretend to care what i have to sayThis doesn't seem like you.
tl;dr he's butthurt that he lost choxorn, the love of his life and habitual co-host of his?

You really think town can win this with only three people playing?
Eventually the mafia can kill one of those people, so we'd better avoid that, hadn't we? :)

introduce me to someone who isn't in favor of vanillas drawing kills

*raises hand*

Not the same thing as 'vanillas being killed', mind you. Most people are generally against false role-claims.

But I didn't have this scruple before, I could abandon it again. :shrug:
Actually, yes, I was going to refer you to my post-game discussion with Visor in the last game, but someone quoted it already.

I kinda think El Barto is a villager? I'm not sure I have the stones to make that read confidently but his post about me when he said he wasn't sure about what it was that I did that pinged him pseudo pocketed me
If I were pocketing you I'd be trying to win you over to my side. I was saying that you struck me as scummy, man.

btw yes most of what I read is you and one or two other people with undistinguishable avatars posting at each other and refusing to consolidate. That puts me off.

[Winston Hughes]

@Monstr

What are you like as scum?

[Monstrdude]

@Monstr

What are you like as scum?

Quiet and solemn probably

Sometimes really angry

It can mirror my town game but ultimately as town I'm just so much more... open?

[Monstrdude]

It's hard to judge your own scum game

I think Cass described it best when she said hard to motivate

I just don't like being scum

[Monstrdude]

OK, I'm quoting six because that odd feature where you are sent to the compose message page whenever you enqueue your sixth post has kicked in again.

tl;dr he's butthurt that he lost choxorn, the love of his life and habitual co-host of his?

Eventually the mafia can kill one of those people, so we'd better avoid that, hadn't we? :)


Actually, yes, I was going to refer you to my post-game discussion with Visor in the last game, but someone quoted it already.

If I were pocketing you I'd be trying to win you over to my side. I was saying that you struck me as scummy, man.

btw yes most of what I read is you and one or two other people with undistinguishable avatars posting at each other and refusing to consolidate. That puts me off.

Villagers can pocket people too

[Monstrdude]

I mean, is hard clearing a villager not just being in their pocket

Their villager pocket sure, but the idea is the same

Okay yes technically pocketing is a scum term but I don't care I do what I want

[Monstrdude]

Hm. I'm reminded of what you said about yourself when I asked Renata about how you play as scum in that you couldn't be quite as carefree

Bleh I still want to hear Renata answer my question anyway

[Monstrdude]

Hm. I'm reminded of what you said about yourself when I asked Renata about how you play as scum in that you couldn't be quite as carefree

Bleh I still want to hear Renata answer my question anyway

This was Winston btw

[El Barto]

Villagers can pocket people too

I mean, is hard clearing a villager not just being in their pocket

Their villager pocket sure, but the idea is the same

Okay yes technically pocketing is a scum term but I don't care I do what I want
I'm not even sure why the hell I continue to bother to read your posts.

vote: Monstrbro

[Montmorency]

They may be MORE LIKELY to be town but that is not CLEAR. get it?

99.9% town = clear. Single-handedly lynching your partner on D1 is just not done (on purpose). Teaming up on lynching your partner on D1, even less so. Oh, and even a flip may not be clearing by your needlessly strict understanding, as the host never explicitly said his material is perfectly reliable. This fatuous skepticism isn't worth the same thread space as posting reaction gifs.

I am not going to cover this again.

[Monstrdude]

I'm not even sure why the hell I continue to bother to read your posts.

vote: Monstrbro

You're ridiculous and if you're a villager learn a new strategy

[Monstrdude]

Barto is a wolf probably 40% of the time for that alone

But it doesn't matter the village will win in spite of him if he's a villager

[Winston Hughes]

Quiet and solemn probably

Sometimes really angry

It can mirror my town game but ultimately as town I'm just so much more... open?

How would you have played this game as scum?

[Montmorency]

I mean, is hard clearing a villager not just being in their pocket

Their villager pocket sure, but the idea is the same

Okay yes technically pocketing is a scum term but I don't care I do what I want

You mean liking and trusting someone? Why do you need jargon to describe that?

[Monstrdude]

How would you have played this game as scum?

I don't know any meta so probably by flailing around pushing villager lynches as hard as I could

[Monstrdude]

You mean liking and trusting someone? Why do you need jargon to describe that?

Idk I was being me sorry that I have a personality

[El Barto]

You're ridiculous and if you're a villager learn a new strategy
Yeah, no, I said that I thought you scummy on D1 and you are trying to pretend I was pocketing you. From then on you went downhill. Goodbye.

[Monstrdude]

I have a history of getting really mad at people in games because they tend to suspect me for things that literally are just facts of my personality and sometimes its just rough playing through that anyway. I played this game despite that I just started a new job because I was promised it would be low volume and I figured if I randed scum I could do very little and get away with it, and if I was a villager i could not care and it wouldn't be a problem

But there is a problem

I always care

Way way too much, and it is exhausting just being in these threads as much as I am.

And yeah, people are gonna write this whole post off as AtE and then have reasons to come at me but I just don't care

I am a villager. I am not sorry for the way I am playing. If you read me incorrectly and you are a villager, that is your fault and not mine

I've said my piece. I'm taking the night off.

[Winston Hughes]

Yo, El B...

How's it hangin'?

Are you scum or what?

[Monstrdude]

Yeah, no, I said that I thought you scummy on D1 and you are trying to pretend I was pocketing you. From then on you went downhill. Goodbye.

I said I think you're a villager dude

That's what I meant

Christ

[Winston Hughes]

Monstr is either town or really really good at scumming.

Meta info gratefully received.

[El Barto]

I need one of those ‘not sure if serious’ captions featuring Heath Ledger's Joker.

atpg used to post them all the time

[El Barto]

I said I think you're a villager dude

That's what I meant

Christ
Freaking x-posts.

If yu want to convey that I'm a villager then say so. Stop to think before posting random segments of your internal monologue. Your posts are hard to read.

[Monstrdude]

Freaking x-posts.

If yu want to convey that I'm a villager then say so. Stop to think before posting random segments of your internal monologue. Your posts are hard to read.

neverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[El Barto]

Yo, El B...

How's it hangin'?

Are you scum or what?
I'm scum and I killed Sooh. Anything else?

[Winston Hughes]

Vote: El Barto

[Winston Hughes]

Surprising easy, this mafia game.

[Winston Hughes]

Surprisingly. Fucksake. :shame:

[El Barto]

Policy dictates that OMGUS and I'd better let Monstrbro cool off before he pushes his keyboard through his computer screen.

vote: Winston Hughes

[Winston Hughes]

Policy dictates that OMGUS and I'd better let Monstrbro cool off before he pushes his keyboard through his computer screen.

vote: Winston Hughes

You know I'm not scum.

[Zack]

Zack what do you think of montmorency?
null

he's being precisely as weird as I'd expect in either alignment

[Renata]

Renata

Can you remind me why you're clearing Winston?

I mean, if I'm wrong in my suspicion of him I want to know why

I like his tone and most of his content; he seems to be thinking in a towny way. That's as much as I can say without iso-ing him or something and he's not high on my priority list. If there's something in particular making you suspcious, post it.

[Montmorency]

I'm scum and I killed Sooh. Anything else?

Scum killed Sooh because it was better for them to kill a high-townie with claimed role than to kill one of the group k-k-k-k-k-k-k-k-k-k-k-k-k-k-cleared by the execution of their compatriot. A case of cutting their losses. They knew the group could wait since as far as scum knew, they could all be vanilla - so they chose to kill Sooh, the one role they had in hand. All of that group will surely be dead by endgame, if not even midgame (10 day-phases standard). They have time. I see it, Pizza would calculate 5 scum for that many lynches.

Csargo could easily still be the lolscum.

[El Barto]

You know I'm not scum.
It's policy, man. Mutual unvotesies?

Scum killed Sooh because it was better for them to kill a high-townie with claimed role than to kill one of the group k-k-k-k-k-k-k-k-k-k-k-k-k-k-cleared by the execution of their compatriot. A case of cutting their losses. They knew the group could wait since as far as scum knew, they could all be vanilla - so they chose to kill Sooh, the one role they had in hand. All of that group will surely be dead by endgame, if not even midgame (10 day-phases standard). They have time. I see it, Pizza would calculate 5 scum for that many lynches.

Csargo could easily still be the lolscum.
I haven't read about half of the thread, so who's cleared by whom/what?

btw why specifically Csargo?

[Zack]

Dice town, Monty lean town, Zack lean mafia.

vote me you baby

[Montmorency]

I haven't read about half of the thread, so who's cleared by whom/what?

Ugghh

OK, CliffsNotes:

1. Choxorn makes prominent (re)entry.
2. Renata carves him out for scumminess, votes him.
3. Atheotes uptrends Renata for this and endorses Choxorn lynch. Asks Chancellor to choose between Cuth and Choxorn in the tie (i.e. don't lynch Barto or Sooh).
4. DP101 votes Choxorn, is elected Chancellor.
5. Cass is both Chancellor and Rep (District 3). She is voting El Barto, Visor is voting Cuth, and DP is voting Choxorn. Cass uses tiebreak ability to lynch Choxorn.
6. Choxorn was scum.


why specifically Csargo?

I remember him as rakish lurker scum.

[Montmorency]

Sorry, DP elected Rep.

[Winston Hughes]

Come on, Tak.

You read me better than anyone.

I'm like your specialist subject.

If you're actually going to pretend that you actually think I could actually be scum here, I'm actually going to have to assume that you're actually a scumbag yourself.

Not joking. Enough with the policy BS, give us another target.

[El Barto]

vote me you baby
As soon as my policy lynch on Winston is averted I'm voting you.

Ugghh

OK, CliffsNotes:

1. Choxorn makes prominent (re)entry.
2. Renata carves him out for scumminess, votes him.
3. Atheotes uptrends Renata for this and endorses Choxorn lynch. Asks Chancellor to choose between Cuth and Choxorn in the tie (i.e. don't lynch Barto or Sooh).
4. DP101 votes Choxorn, is elected Chancellor.
5. Cass is both Chancellor and Rep (District 3). She is voting El Barto, Visor is voting Cuth, and DP is voting Choxorn. Cass uses tiebreak ability to lynch Choxorn.
6. Choxorn was scum.
So you're saying Dp votes choxorn, therefore he's town, then Cass_ is all but confirmed unless we have an SK or second mafia, then Renata and Atheotes are also cleared for voting choxorn… in essence 4 out of 20-odd players voted for the scummo to die, which is like playing… let us call it Ukrainian roulette, but at least it worked. In fact, it's three people and then Cass_ saving my life (thanks lass). What an odd way to make the lynch work, but great.

Anybody else cleared?

I remember him as rakish lurker scum.
He must have posted in the 700 posts I didn't read.

[El Barto]

Not joking. Enough with the policy BS, give us another target.
xpost, see above.

[Zack]

Why would you even vote me lol

Have u even talked about me a single bit?

[Montmorency]

So you're saying Dp votes choxorn, therefore he's town, then Cass_ is all but confirmed unless we have an SK or second mafia, then Renata and Atheotes are also cleared for voting choxorn… in essence 4 out of 20-odd players voted for the scummo to die, which is like playing… let us call it Ukrainian roulette, but at least it worked. In fact, it's three people and then Cass_ saving my life (thanks lass). What an odd way to make the lynch work, but great.


Put another way: Renata put the issue on the table and pushed it, atheotes symbol-sheeped her, DP actually sheeped her from a position of power, and Cass contravened her original vote to decide the matter. Really powerful stuff.

[Renata]

Anybody else cleared?

Sooh, by virtue of being night killed.

[Montmorency]

Sooh, by virtue of being night killed.

Sooh "Chicken Soup" TOWN WATCHER could be fourth party for all we know. Who can say how many layers of cover remain unpeeled by Pizza's semi-joke reveal. Trust nothing.

[Winston Hughes]

xpost, see above.

Why is Zack scum?

[Monstrdude]

I like his tone and most of his content; he seems to be thinking in a towny way. That's as much as I can say without iso-ing him or something and he's not high on my priority list. If there's something in particular making you suspcious, post it.

There were two posts he made that I suspected him for but his banned with me in real time was pretty good so I think I can drop it

[Monstrdude]

There were two posts he made that I suspected him for but his banned with me in real time was pretty good so I think I can drop it

Banned = banter

[Renata]

I agree Dicetosser looks pretty towny by his irritation with us cleared people being cleared. :p

[Zack]

how do i go from not even being acknowledged by you to a top lynch target??

[Zack]

(with no progression or reasoning in between)

[Winston Hughes]

I agree Dicetosser looks pretty towny by his irritation with us cleared people being cleared. :p

dicetosser does look good.

I've felt that click of authenticity several times.

[Zack]

no response tak? why should i die?

[Visor]

you get -points right away for having three scum and fishing for lynches while doing one hardish town read and one soft one
negative points for schema

meh

ime town tend to have more scum than town reads off the bat

particularly though it does feel like very much fishing for a lynch on any of three, 0-1 of which would be scum if teamed
negative points for schema

meh i disagree with the case on sooh

i think it's bad

i think she's always utr

and i think visor is making a subpar push on him

his play is very similar to the hydra game i think

didn't read the last three pages, but i did ctrl+f my name

and saw glimpses

monstr is trending up a little

i still trust zack over cass
defends sooh

i was taking issue with your stance of only/most noticable person without towny posts>scum

i think that position is contrived

particularly given that i personally am seeing sooh's normal behavior

and i'm not becoming less convinced that you're scum

but mostly not because of the push
defends sooh, claims normal behaviour, and pushes me again

again

or maybe not again given i didn't go into this as much earlier

he is going after people less like a bitter pedantic normal visor

i genuinely don't think he believes what he's saying

his arguments and defenses of himself sounds like he thinks sooh is scummy but that he knows he's scum

and it does feel a tiniest bit cftwr to me
pushes me again, uses an argument that can't really be argued against (feelings)

i think schema's about 89% town here
randomly out of the blue

i like

1)her thing on renata-she clearly elaborates why renata is where she is
2)mildly goes against thread consensus
3)actively gamesolving in a towny fashion

okay, but these were things back when you claimed shit about her original posts


The progression on sooh and schema are bizarre. The progression on me (no longer having me as top scum?) is bizarre.

There are so many jumps missing the connecting steps in between.

How did he go from Sooh's normal behaviour to trying to kill her?
How did he magically change his read on Schema?

[Zack]

tlldr

[Visor]

i want to say one of gh/winston

but i'm not 100% on that

meh on sooh's posting

it's nothing a wolf couldn't do and i don't really lean either way on it


actually

vote: Sooh

i looked back; is scummy

??????????

I did a full on case of all of Sooh's posts and it didn't do anything for him but he suddenly looks back and they're scummy despite him calling it her normal behaviour

[Zack]

I thought I pointed that out yesterday

[El Barto]

Put another way: Renata put the issue on the table and pushed it, atheotes symbol-sheeped her, DP actually sheeped her from a position of power, and Cass contravened her original vote to decide the matter. Really powerful stuff.
Yes, yes.

Sooh, by virtue of being night killed.
OK, that's a good one.

Sooh "Chicken Soup" TOWN WATCHER could be fourth party for all we know. Who can say how many layers of cover remain unpeeled by Pizza's semi-joke reveal. Trust nothing.
I need the old notsureifserious.jpg again.

Why is Zack scum?
A faint whiff and a post I quoted above. But I'm welcome to suggestions. I'm still trying to find who's who.

no response tak? why should i die?
C'mon, you know that every day at this hour I have to do the RPS update at MU.
You should die -regardless of your alignment- because your crimes against proper spelling, punctuation and capitalisation.

[El Barto]

I thought I pointed that out yesterday
Didn't read that.

[Zack]

what

[El Barto]

btw, Winston, the only unvote I'm willing to do is a mutual.

[Visor]

Vote: Visor
Vote: Cuthillius

[dicetosser1]

99.9% town = clear. Single-handedly lynching your partner on D1 is just not done (on purpose). Teaming up on lynching your partner on D1, even less so. Oh, and even a flip may not be clearing by your needlessly strict understanding, as the host never explicitly said his material is perfectly reliable. This fatuous skepticism isn't worth the same thread space as posting reaction gifs.

I am not going to cover this again.

red wanna bet?? I was part of a 4 man scum team and my teammate Zander bussed the living hell out of our other teammate lenlo. D1`. Like EXTREME bussing. Dont EVER say never.

and how can you POSSIBLY have them at 99.9%? seriously. They are either 100 % cause of clearing night actions or they are at best like 75%? The only people who can claim that level of confidence on a bunch of people is a) the cop who cleared them b) someone who REALLY knows how to read them like 100 % of the time or c) scum. Are you a or B?

And dont think i didnt notice you trying to squirrel away from this convo with that whole Im not covering this again thing. I will just keep bringing it up and pounding away at you.





Monstr is either town or really really good at scumming.

Meta info gratefully received.


Im leaning town. There are differences between his scum game and town game but for me they are mainly tone and behaviour things.




I'm scum and I killed Sooh. Anything else?

Vote El Barto

[Zack]

75% would basically be rand lol

[El Barto]

red wanna bet?? I was part of a 4 man scum team and my teammate Zander bussed the living hell out of our other teammate lenlo. D1`. Like EXTREME bussing. Dont EVER say never.

and how can you POSSIBLY have them at 99.9%? seriously. They are either 100 % cause of clearing night actions or they are at best like 75%? The only people who can claim that level of confidence on a bunch of people is a) the cop who cleared them b) someone who REALLY knows how to read them like 100 % of the time or c) scum. Are you a or B?

And dont think i didnt notice you trying to squirrel away from this convo with that whole Im not covering this again thing. I will just keep bringing it up and pounding away at you.
Wha…?

Im leaning town. There are differences between his scum game and town game but for me they are mainly tone and behaviour things.
If you say so…

Vote El Barto
Wha…?

[Winston Hughes]

Vote: Visor

What is this?

[Winston Hughes]

btw, Winston, the only unvote I'm willing to do is a mutual.

Then you need to show me that you're town.

[dicetosser1]

its real simply El Barto. You claim scum i lynch you.

easy peasey japanesey

[Visor]

What is this?

Its a vote for me as representative

[dicetosser1]

simple even lol

[Winston Hughes]

Its a vote for me as representative

And what do you plan to do with that?

[El Barto]

Then you need to show me that you're town.
Sorry, Winston, policy calls.

its real simply El Barto. You claim scum i lynch you.

easy peasey japanesey
vote: dicetosser1

[Visor]

And what do you plan to do with that?

vote cuthillius

[El Barto]

Get the two tossers to stop voting me and I might just vote (with) you. Emphasis on might.

[Winston Hughes]

vote cuthillius

I'm not convinced.

[Visor]

I'm not convinced.

then who, El Barto?

thats fine with me too, i had all three on my wolf list yesterday

[Al Sipsclar]

Monty is like the world's largest tunnel-boring machine. Which has broken down and stalled. And I was so ready to vote him before that.

[Monstrdude]

then who, El Barto?

thats fine with me too, i had all three on my wolf list yesterday

If we were three for three on lynches then lol the wolves forever

[Al Sipsclar]

Vote: Cass_

[Monstrdude]

Monty is like the world's largest tunnel-boring machine. Which has broken down and stalled. And I was so ready to vote him before that.

Sup. What do you make of generalhankerchief?

[Dp101]

Vote: Cuthillius cause the case on him seems solid. Sorry for not saying much, this terrible cold I have is wiping me out.

[dicetosser1]

Sorry, Winston, policy calls.

vote: dicetosser1

LOL so no reason just blatant OMGUS without even arguing?? Cmon town we have scum here.

[El Barto]

I'm not convinced.
He has ample time in which to convince us. I am off to discuss Star Wars -some people are posting that they did not like the film and I am not sure how to re-educate them.

[Winston Hughes]

then who, El Barto?

thats fine with me too, i had all three on my wolf list yesterday

*eyebrow*

Don't go soft on me.

Why Cuth?

Spell it out.

[Renata]

Sorry, Winston, policy calls.

vote: dicetosser1

In the immortal words of Montmorency, "Get off it".

[El Barto]

LOL so no reason just blatant OMGUS without even arguing?? Cmon town we have scum here.
x-post: It's policy (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LampshadeHanging) across all games.

[Visor]

*eyebrow*

Don't go soft on me.

Why Cuth?

Spell it out.

i just did on the last page?

The progression on sooh and schema are bizarre. The progression on me (no longer having me as top scum?) is bizarre.

There are so many jumps missing the connecting steps in between.

How did he go from Sooh's normal behaviour to trying to kill her?
How did he magically change his read on Schema?
I did a full on case of all of Sooh's posts and it didn't do anything for him but he suddenly looks back and they're scummy despite him calling it her normal behaviour

post 1425

and the stuff yesterday

[El Barto]

In the immortal words of Montmorency, "Get off it".
Do you wanna imply dicetosser and I are scumbuddies? C'mon, gimme a better target and I'll switch. One-time offer, only to you as a welcome back present. :)

[Renata]

He has ample time in which to convince us. I am off to discuss Star Wars -some people are posting that they did not like the film and I am not sure how to re-educate them.

This is actually a worthy endeavor. Do come back when you're finished bashing heads.

[Renata]

Do you wanna imply dicetosser and I are scumbuddies? C'mon, gimme a better target and I'll switch. One-time offer, only to you as a welcome back present. :)

No, dicetosser is town. I just like the phrase. I don't want to tell you who to vote, you know that Tak, ol' buddy ol' pal. I want you to make me believe you're town. That's all. Easy.

[Monstrdude]

No, dicetosser is town. I just like the phrase. I don't want to tell you who to vote, you know that Tak, ol' buddy ol' pal. I want you to make me believe you're town. That's all. Easy.

In the immortal words of dicetosser1 "easy peasey japanesey"

[Winston Hughes]

lolme for the reading fail

Yeah, it's a good case.

Let the voters decide.

[Zack]

What is this?

i can't believe you expected anything different

[Zack]

Vote: Cuthillius cause the case on him seems solid. Sorry for not saying much, this terrible cold I have is wiping me out.

you never voted me for saying lol

[Al Sipsclar]

From town to scum:

Cass_
Renata
Dp101

atheotes
dicetosser1
Jabbz
Visor

Monstrbro
Zack
Winston

BSmith
CSargo
Riedquat

Monty
GH
El Barto
Schema
Cuthillius

Need to ISO the last group to make up my mind.

[Visor]

the only other person i'd elect in my district is winston (who I am fine voting for, I just like voting for myself)

[Zack]

lolme for the reading fail

Yeah, it's a good case.

Let the voters decide.

let the free market decide imo

[Visor]

oh, actually, if dp101 is voting cuthillius then

unvote; vote: winston hughes

you can have it

[Zack]

oh, actually, if dp101 is voting cuthillius then

unvote; vote: winston hughes

you can have it

what

[Zack]

From town to scum:

Cass_
Renata
Dp101

atheotes
dicetosser1
Jabbz
Visor

Monstrbro
Zack
Winston

BSmith
CSargo
Riedquat

Monty
GH
El Barto
Schema
Cuthillius

Need to ISO the last group to make up my mind.

cool beans

[El Barto]

This is actually a worthy endeavor. Do come back when you're finished bashing heads.
I've just thrown down the gauntlet, asking for an explanation of such… assertions.

No, dicetosser is town. I just like the phrase. I don't want to tell you who to vote, you know that Tak, ol' buddy ol' pal. I want you to make me believe you're town. That's all. Easy.
Look, I'll unvote and try to play a bit more seriously tomorrow when I've done the final RPS update and hopefully it's colder (right now it's 30º and it's past midnight). Hopefully there won't be 700 posts to wade through.

unvote

dicetosser1: it's apparent that you've never played with me. Ask around. My signature is an actual quote from Renata.

[Winston Hughes]

i can't believe you expected anything different

I didn't.

Yesterday was business.

Today is pleasure.

[Zack]

i still don't understand why jabbz is being townread

[Al Sipsclar]

Sup. What do you make of generalhankerchief?

He always seems scummy to me. :sad: The only time I saw him as town was because of an in-universe connection between our characters in Futurama. Need to read up.

[Winston Hughes]

oh, actually, if dp101 is voting cuthillius then

unvote; vote: winston hughes

you can have it

Aww, man.

I was working up a campaign speech and everything.

[Zack]

vote 4 weston

[Winston Hughes]

i still don't understand why jabbz is being townread

Can you summarise why he's scum.

For the lazy people.

[Zack]

Can you summarise why he's scum.

For the lazy people.

here's your summary: read my posts

[El Barto]

There's no ISO function. And you post a lot.

[Monstrdude]

Search

Advanced search

Username "Zack"

[Visor]

Aww, man.

I was working up a campaign speech and everything.

just do it to appease the masses

in any event having at least one different representative per round isn't the worst idea

[Zack]

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=152347

click on number of replies by "zack"

[Zack]

congrats i just out-lazied you all

[Al Sipsclar]

cool beans

Also, I could never understand the Zack-talk. Like this or the exchanges Zack had with Monstrbro yesterday.

[Zack]

Also, I could never understand the Zack-talk. Like this or the exchanges Zack had with Monstrbro yesterday.

idk what you mean

[Dp101]

you never voted me for saying lol

When has consistency been one of my defining traits as a player.

[Monstrdude]

that question was directed to jabbz

I'd like to hear him give an actual read that isn't just making up new reasons to not change his vote from me


There is a difference between a few people coming in to get a train rolling on voting you chancellor, and having someone artificially prop up someone who you claim is reading scum. I can say I voted for you for chancellor in the first 10 pages (I have mine on 10 posts per page) without being attacked for being scum if you pop wolf later, by just pointing out there were no other options at the time. To defend someone who you claim is looking scummy however, that puts those people on the spot should I pop scum later.

This is the second or third time you've attempted to dismiss my arguments by implying I lack the intelligence to understand how this game works. While that doesn't bother me, think what you will, it does come across as a very weak method of arguments, as you don't deal with my argument, but instead create a strawman and then insult me for arguing it. I made a clear argument regarding why wolves wouldn't, under these circumstances, support a teammate in the way you say. Rather than deal with that argument you "lolwut?" and try to move on. It's scummy as hell mate, and I'm glad my vote is already on you, saves me the effort of changing it.

This stuff is the relevant bits it seems like

[Zack]

but i think it's some kind of racist slur in which case a plague upon you and yours

a plague

[El Barto]

*gazes at thread*
*gazes at thermometer*
*logs off thread*

[Zack]

This stuff is the relevant bits it seems like

makes me look bad because his has more lines and words

[Monstrdude]

that question was directed to jabbz

I'd like to hear him give an actual read that isn't just making up new reasons to not change his vote from me


makes me look bad because his has more lines and words

I had a hard time finding all your stuff

For context it's best to click through

His argument seems based on making you look bad from my perspective, and I have a couple other reasons to think you're town already

[Zack]

how about someone summarizes why jabbz is town

[Zack]

I had a hard time finding all your stuff

For context it's best to click through

His argument seems based on making you look bad from my perspective, and I have a couple other reasons to think you're town already
yeah it's frustrating to be the target of such confirmation bias

[Monstrdude]

His initial argument doesn't make a ton of sense

I mean, especially with only five-ish wolves they're kind of slaves to the rest of the village unless they power wolf together from the start and ensure no wolf ever dies. Judging by the fact that choxorn got lynched I'd say they failed.

[Monstrdude]

His initial argument doesn't make a ton of sense

I mean, especially with only five-ish wolves they're kind of slaves to the rest of the village unless they power wolf together from the start and ensure no wolf ever dies. Judging by the fact that choxorn got lynched I'd say they failed.

And or didn't try

[Monstrdude]

how about someone summarizes why jabbz is town

Dunno. I had a reason for thinking so yesterday but I need to reiso

I'm just feeling particularly lazy and we have a whole day

[Al Sipsclar]

idk what you mean

yep, idk what half of your posts mean, that's my point. So I usually think that if I can't figure out what Zack means, he must be town.

[Csargo]

Here have this Vote:Winston He seems alright...

I'm not even going to bother voting to lynch someone, because that seems pointless. The shear volume of posting would make that irresponsible of me anyways. i.e. I can't keep up.

[Winston Hughes]

I'm still not seeing it.

Gonna have to reread Jabbz, obviously, but I'm just not getting why him being scum is the most likely explanation for the stuff you're talking about.