View Full Version : Large Mafia Game StarWars: Return of the Sith [Concluded]
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Askthepizzaguy
05-07-2010, 06:04
The amber eyes clue is also meaningless.
Check out the inconsistency there. Some nights the amber eyes are mentioned for both kills. Both Sith seem to have amber eyes. One night, the amber wasn't even mentioned at all.
IIRC anyone who is a Sith who has their features fully revealed has amber eyes. Darth Maul, Vader, Sidious, for ex.
Round 2
amber eyes (1)
Round 3
amber eyes (1)
Round 4
amber eyes (2)
Round 5
No amber eyes (0)
Round 6
amber eyes (1)
Round 7
amber eyes (1)
Round 8
amber eyes (1)
Round 9
amber eyes (2)
Round 10
amber eyes (1)
ONLY ONE MURDER
Round 11
amber eyes (2)
Round 12
amber eyes (2)
Round 13
amber eyes (2)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/dd/Darthmaul_l.jpg
http://www.dancewithshadows.com/media/images/anakin-skywalker.jpg
http://taur-nu-fuin.mattler.de/blahdocs/uploads/darth_sidious_7126.jpg
Even Wyyrlok.
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100501094707/starwars/images/0/08/WyyrlokSurprise-Legacy47.jpg
Darth Nihl
http://www.freewebs.com/darthrask/DarthNihl.jpg
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20071224034820/starwars/images/6/68/Nihlprofile.jpg
VERY hard to see, but Nihl has amber eyes as well.
Darth Krayt has one amber eye, and one false eye.
http://mimg.ugo.com/200807/14590/darth-krayt.jpg
Askthepizzaguy
05-07-2010, 06:16
You've had nearly an hour, Psychonaut. What is the hold up?
You've had nearly an hour, Psychonaut. What is the hold up?
I'm at work. I can't post much til I'm at home.
Diana Abnoba
05-07-2010, 06:34
Guys, I want Cent. 1 lynched as well, but we have to drain him 1st. So block him and drain him tonight. Scan Pizza again (don't know why you haven't before) or even block him as he has asked several times. Lynch Psyco, he has too many inconsistencies, and is (as he has claimed) not really a power role, only 1-2 defensive abilities (2 at one time, drained 1) so only loosing a regular townie, if this is true, or he is not telling us the truth (if so why). We had our roleblocker, roleblocked, by who...who would gain the most from this. We are coming down to the wire now. Lynch Cent. 1 next day phase, after his lynch immune is drained. I think this should work to keep all our suspect in check by tonight.
Askthepizzaguy
05-07-2010, 06:39
I'm at work. I can't post much til I'm at home.
How terribly convenient/inconvenient.
This phase shouldn't end for another 16 hours, and I trust you'll log on and defend yourself then. I look forward to hearing your defense; If none is forthcoming, you must be lynched.
In the meantime, more to chew on:
That's ludicrous, why would a block stop single actions? A role block stops roles... hence, the term "role-block".
Quote Originally Posted by Chaotix
Morichro (Grand Master)- This allows me to roleblock a player. I am the only player who can ever learn this.
He doesn't say, this blocks an action by a person. He says, it is a role-block. Aka: When you buy the car, you get the whole car, not just a couple doors and a wing-mirror.
Didn't Diamondeye claim to get roleblocked, Psychonaut? Did Diamondeye roleblock himself?
Qui-Gon Jinn was out and about heading for a particular part of the quarters section when he met one of the crew members. Qui-Gon didn’t really want to talk to anyone at this particular time and was short in his conversation. The other crew member was on the other hand very chatty and Qui-Gon was reduced to listen to this verbose crew member. At a particular junction which was out of ways way, the crew member made a gesture whose signature Qui-Gon knew very well, he had barely time to look surprised before he slumped down onto the floor completely unconscious.
The Sith can block. Not only that, it looks like a Mafia IX-esque frame job on me. I may be wrong, and the sith may be able to add little snippets. I don't care/distracting and worthless to think about.
Chaotix was wrong that he's the only one who can roleblock, that much is clear from the writeup. If the Grand Master has a certain kind of roleblock, it is possible there is more than one kind. Perhaps his only blocks a single attempted action.
Sasaki Kojiro
05-07-2010, 06:45
Sounding like psychonaut doesn't have an answer. Odd.
Askthepizzaguy
05-07-2010, 06:48
Sounding like psychonaut doesn't have an answer. Odd.
I realize I sound like I'm babbling, but there's more:
Just proved that Darth Nihl had amber eyes. This proves both Sith had amber eyes.
Not only that, but the Jedi have several kinds of defenses. I believe the Sith have various kinds of attack. If that is true, that is how they overcome defenses; it is like a Rock Paper Scissors match.
Those kills are NOT signatures which identify who is who. Those are chosen Sith actions to overcome defenses.
NOTHING in the writeups indicates which Sith is which, except perhaps that one versus Chaotix where both Sith attacked Yoda. That's all I can see.
The writeup "clues" we thought were clues are all misleading. They are NOT indicative of identity.
Askthepizzaguy
05-07-2010, 06:53
GOT IT. SLAM DUNK: The Yoda murder. Both Sith have Amber eyes.
The Expedition Leader, also known as Yoda – the Grand Master of the Jedi, was leaving his quarters late in the evening.
He had some business to attend to. He had just locked the door of his quarters using the force instead of a key when he heard a sinister voice to his right.
“Soo… Yoda, Grand Master of the Jedi, we meet at last.”
Yoda reacted quickly drawing and igniting his green crystal lightsaber in one fluid move.
There in the middle of the hallway to his right stood a cloaked person with amber glowing eyes and a crimson plasma blade radiating an eerie red glow on the floor, on the walls and in the ceiling. Yoda was ready and took his defensive stance after showing his Grand Master lightsaber signature.
The other cloaked person seemed not too impressed.
“Nice moves, old man – now view for the first and last time of your aging life, the signature of a Sith Lord” and the cloaked person proceeded to show his flurry move with a twirl that would have decapitated a close opponent.
It seemed a tad aggressive to Yoda, but he said nothing. He just stood waiting.
The cloaked person walked calmly up to Yoda and attacked with a powerful overhand swing. The sounds of plasma against plasma vibrated in the hallway as the two combatants exchanged attacks and blocks. This continued a little while before Yoda showed who was the real master of the blade and grazed the hand of the cloaked person upon which the crimson lighsaber went clanking down the hallway.
The cloaked person screamed in rage and took up a position of wanting to jump at Yoda like a predator. Instead of leaping towards him, he seemed to release something. Yoda was barely able to create a impregnable barrier around him before a torrent of the force was unleashed in his general direction. The air howled all around his force field and destroyed the cabins on both sides of him. But Yoda stood still under his force protection.
The cloaked person looked utterly spent kneeling on the floor and couldn’t believe his own eyes.
Someone was approaching from behind him and another cloaked person appeared, putting a reassuring hand on the shoulder of the kneeling cloaked person. Amber glowing eyes looked directly at Yoda from a shrouded and dark face. The second cloaked person said nothing but raised his hands towards Yoda and blue lightning cascaded from them and danced on the protective shield.
There's your proof the amber eyes are on both sith, and they both have cloaks obviously.
Diana Abnoba
05-07-2010, 06:56
Yes, when I was attacked on night 10, I got a PM from Sigurd asking which defense I wanted to use (if I didn't answer I got one picked by random.org) I got the PM too late and it went to random.org. It could be that the Sith also can choose which power they want to use, and with most of us having been promoted by now, the lightsaber is just not strong enough. This would also explain why Tin Cow survived the attack. Him being a Master he could use 2 defenses that night, (and the Sith didn't pick right that night), and me being a Knight I could only use 1. Also why it took 2 Siths to kill our Grand Master. The higher your status the more powers you have and can use at one time.
Yes, when I was attacked on night 10, I got a PM from Sigurd asking which defense I wanted to use (if I didn't answer I got one picked by random.org) I got the PM too late and it went to random.org. It could be that the Sith also can choose which power they want to use, and with most of us having been promoted by now, the lightsaber is just not strong enough. This would also explain why Tin Cow survived the attack. Him being a Master he could use 2 defenses that night, (and the Sith didn't pick right that night), and me being a Knight I could only use 1. Also why it took 2 Siths to kill our Grand Master. The higher your status the more powers you have and can use at one time.
Beskar was Jedi Master Dooku and was only allowed to use one defense ability when he was attacked, even though he had accrued about three or four different means of defense by that point.
Askthepizzaguy
05-07-2010, 07:44
Tally:
Psychonaut- 4 (ATPG, Cent, Split, atheotes)
Centurion- 3 (DE, Subotan, Tincow)
Subotan- 1 (pevergreen)
Not voting yet: Chaotix, Niklas, Psychonaut
There is not presently enough support for a given candidate to overturn Niklas' and the remaining Sith's vote. We have to be more decisive.
Tally has not been double checked yet
Sasaki Kojiro
05-07-2010, 07:47
hmm psycho hasn't even voted. I guess we should lynch him.
pevergreen
05-07-2010, 07:49
I'm not convinced of Psycho, but i do recognise he could be.
Unvote: Subotan, Vote: Centurion
I think thats the best action right now.
Askthepizzaguy
05-07-2010, 08:09
Psychonaut- 4 (ATPG, Cent, Split, atheotes)
Centurion- 4 (DE, Subotan, Tincow, pevergreen)
Not voting yet: Chaotix, Niklas, Psychonaut
Tally is double checked and accurate.
I haven't been following the last few days, but can somebody tell me who has been blocking Psychonaut?
Askthepizzaguy
05-07-2010, 08:31
I haven't been following the last few days, but can somebody tell me who has been blocking Psychonaut?
IIRC
On the two days he was blocked, it was Qui-gon Jinn AKA Diamondeye who did so.
GOT IT. SLAM DUNK: The Yoda murder. Both Sith have Amber eyes.
There's your proof the amber eyes are on both sith, and they both have cloaks obviously.
Which proves that there are still two of them.
Psycho, being the only suspect not lynch immune, is probably a good choice, and he's almost certainly mafia by this point anyway. Block/Drain/Investigate/Whatever Pizza and Cent tonight to find the remaining one.
Askthepizzaguy
05-07-2010, 08:38
Which proves that there are still two of them.
Psycho, being the only suspect not lynch immune, is probably a good choice, and he's almost certainly mafia by this point anyway. Block/Drain/Investigate/Whatever Pizza and Cent tonight to find the remaining one.
Yes, yes, to Choxorn you listen!
Edit: actually:
Diana: Recruit attempt/ended in failure/murder.
Next night: 1 murder, 1 recruit attempt/ended in failure/murder.
This means there was still only 1 Sith.
Next night: 2 murders.
This means there was no recruitment attempt, and we have already seen that one Sith can murder twice.
Next night: 2 murder attempts, etc.
You see, there is only one Sith right now.
IIRC
On the two days he was blocked, it was Qui-gon Jinn AKA Diamondeye who did so.
And the nights Psycho was blocked, there were still two killings?
Then why should we lynch Psycho?
Have you been recruited, Pizza?
What point would there be in having a blocking ability, if one Sith can do two kills when his partner is blocked? That doesn't make sense.
Hold on, hold on. I think I've figured out what's happened. DE said he blocked and then drained me. Perhaps, just perhaps, that has something to do with it. The ordering of his actions. The roleblock appears to make a player unconcious, and the investigative drain appears to be a questioning then mind read. Perhaps that he was investigating me, while blocked/unconcious. That'd explain the ambiguity in the results and why Sigurd hasn't cleared it up.
Turns out I was correct, a quick response from Sigurd, as of 50 or so minutes ago.
Yes, the order of things matters. As the actions were done in that order, it means your interrogator couldn't learn anything from you.
-------
What have you been doing all game?
Attempting to lynch Sith. And protecting myself from false accusations, almost continually.
Why are there two roleblockers then? Seems unbalanced to me. Why was our roleblocker roleblocked, Psycho?
Why are you asking me? Who was going to be blocked/drained last night? Those are your suspects, why else would they block the role-blocker? Because they knew that if they are going to be blocked the amount of kills will drop and their game would be up. If I had the role-block ability and I was Sith don't you think I would have perhaps used it both times I was going to be blocked, rather than insist I be role-blocked, and then let it happen.
Where's your missing powers?
Missing? I have these powers currently:
Force powers:
Force Speed (Padawan ability)
https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/Forcespeed.png
Force Healing (Jedi Master ability)
https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/ForceHealing.png
And this is the one Diamondeye drained:
Force Blinding (Jedi Knight ability)
https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/Force_Blinding.png
But, lo and behold where is Force Sight you ask?
Why is your investigation result SO inconclusive, no race no alignment?
This is the interesting part. And Chaotix can confirm this 100% if you like. This investigation ability was a scheme to feed false information to suspect players, in the hope they would fall for it and in the process reveal themselves by following the "investigations" by attacking phony targets. Similar to police entrapment. Why do you think early on I thought Niklas was the leak in Beskar's group? :idea2: I only switched votes back-then because it is not as effective as making judgements on in-thread behaviour, and is prone to coincidental conclusions.
Why did the murders dip only when you were blocked and Niklas was dead?
Because. As I have maintained since the beginning, that that night there was one Sith and that night he killed and found a new recruit, and ever since then we are facing 2, yes 2 Sith. Thus 1 kill for a night and then 2 from then onwards.
No aggressive powers, no defensive powers, no anti-lynch powers?
See point 1.
So Pizza, either you are completely wrong, or you are Sith trying desperately to protect your scum buddy Cent or I am scum and somehow I am magically able to kill and recruit while unconcious in my cabin. Hmmm. I wonder which one it is.... :idea2:
Possible that Centurion1 is Sith, he and ATPG plan a recruitment but it hasn't happened yet, ATPG does however help already by blocking(could be a new poer for him) Diamondeye and accusing Psycho?
That's assuming the Sith cannot block. I mean whyt kind of town-aligned person would block Qui-Gon and why would they not give us their reasoning now?
Or did I miss anyone claiming to have blocked Qui Gon?
OR was TinCow found worthy of being the Sith apprentice when he was attacked and survived?
Though at the moment I agree with him that Centurion should be lynched, I wanted to mention it anyway.
My thoughts...
Lynch Centurion1. There are holes all over ATPG's case and it's main strength remains WALL-O-TEXT without much coherence. Will go into it in more depth later, but if any of you trust me in this game, trust me now. DO NOT let ATPG sway you to get Centurion1 out of this lynch.
I still feel more comfortable with a Cent1 lynch than the Psycho lynch. Cent1 has done nothing to indicate that he is not town (Other than roll Force Breath in the Lotto), whilst the evidence against Psycho is patchy at best. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that the Night after a Sith dies, Psycho is blocked and found to be innocent. There's one kill that night, and subsequently two kills thereafter. How can Psycho have been recruited then? He would have to have been recruited on the night that he was blocked and investigated. Granted, it's not impossible that a recruitment would slip under the radar of a concurrent investigation, but it looks very, very unlikely.
Centurion1
05-07-2010, 12:23
I hav e done nothing to actually prove gujilt besides act scummy. When saying I'm the best candidate I want to know your evidence. Husar don't post such silly things why would pizza want to be recruited especially this lated with me about to be lynched. Y'all got no evidencr whatsoever and are wasting a lynch
Two mistakes has been corrected.
1. The right gender in round 5 has been implemented.
2. Kyp Durron was already a Knight last round. I mistakenly wrote it in by reading the wrong like in the game documents. Syfo-Dyas was the upgraded Padawan.
Sorry to the players involved.
Announcement:
I will not be answering PMs involving questions about particular results or other players. Only questions regarding your own character and powers will be answered.
Go Go Anti-Wall-O-Text Powers! Form of an Argument!
SHAZAAM!
Why would I be arguing for a method of clearing Centurion1 which prevents him from murdering, and stripping me of anti-lynch powers?
Because you're the unaccounted for roleblocker. You will simply block DE tonight, preventing him from blocking or investigating anyone.
Three suspects: Psycho, Cent, ATPG.
Only three? As far as I was aware, Subotan was far from cleared as was pever. Why are they no longer suspects on your list? You're narrowing is random and incoherent, the only reason for you to list Psycho and not the other two is that you're not actually looking for the real Sith, you're just looking for a scapegoat.
Let me recap the case on Psychonaut, and explain why it is a superior bet than Centurion1 at this point.
...
uh screw this I'll just copy/paste what I told TheFlax.
...
My theory:
Psycho has 3 actions
he can attempt to recruit
He can kill
he can actively shield himself from scans
and hide his force powers
that explains everythingt
I'm not retyping all of that. That's what I have on Psychonaut, and why it is better to go that route rather then Centurion1.
Once all the junk is removed from that post, this is all it is: your entire argument against Psycho is based on some totally random assumption that the Sith get 3 night actions and that a roleblock stops only 2 of them. There is no evidence whatsoever to back this up, and it is not consistent with the way the roleblock power works. Both DE and Chaotix (confirmed innocent Yoda) have used that power, and they both believed it totally disabled a person.
It's not a lie, I just did not remember all the facts.
If you're being THAT careless to miss a minor part about who the killers were, your analysis isn't to be trusted. You were either intentionally lying, or you were so negligent in your review of the night actions that you made a MAJOR mistake. So, your mistake is either intentional or negligent, and heavily damages your credibility.
IMO Psychonaut has at least 3 available actions, Kill/recruit/Defend himself from scans, roleblocking, possibly others. He can do 3 simultaneously.
Saying this over and over again doesn't make it true. There is no evidence of any kind that shows that the Sith have ever performed 3 actions in a single night, even when there were 2 of them alive. This is what, in the legal industry, we call "negative evidence." You are making an assumption about what does exist on the basis of something that did not happen. Because your entire argument is based on, literally, nothing happening, there is no evidentiary basis for your conclusions. They are, at best, theories and nothing more.
It is possible he was still able to kill even through the block. Explain the missing kill on N10. Explain the missing powers. Explain the inconclusive result. There is no explanation for that.
I've already done that, the missing kill was the action when you were recruited. That was the first night after Niklas was killed, and the very first thing the Sith did was recruit you, just as you warned us they would way back when you were still a townie. The missing "powers" and inconclusive result have been explained perfectly by Psychonaut here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2484481&viewfull=1#post2484481).
I admit little minor technicalities like who was killing who isn't my forte, but don't miss the trees for the forest, Tincow. See the whole picture. Explain all of it, don't dismiss it based on one error.
I'm not dismissing it on the basis of one error, I'm dismissing it on the basis of a plethora of errors on which you have built a theory which doesn't even have any actual in-game evidence to back it up. Even with all of your flaws, the best you've managed is a theory, not a case. As for admitting minor technicalities... you totally skipped my argument about your recruitment explaining the missing kill.
I'll keep combing though ATPG's detritus in a bit. Need coffee and a shower. I'll tell you right now though, it's all like this.
Askthepizzaguy
05-07-2010, 13:05
Because you're the unaccounted for roleblocker. You will simply block DE tonight, preventing him from blocking or investigating anyone.
That's incorrect. I have no roleblocking powers.
Only three? As far as I was aware, Subotan was far from cleared as was pever. Why are they no longer suspects on your list? You're narrowing is random and incoherent, the only reason for you to list Psycho and not the other two is that you're not actually looking for the real Sith, you're just looking for a scapegoat.
I still haven't found an explanation to all of the problems with Psychonaut, and that is why I am focusing on him.
Once all the junk is removed from that post, this is all it is: your entire argument against Psycho is based on some totally random assumption that the Sith get 3 night actions and that a roleblock stops only 2 of them. There is no evidence whatsoever to back this up, and it is not consistent with the way the roleblock power works. Both DE and Chaotix (confirmed innocent Yoda) have used that power, and they both believed it totally disabled a person.
The Sith lord clearly has at least 2 actions, that's proven just by reading it. Then (sorry) I am not a roleblocker and I didn't block Diamondeye. I believe there has been no recruit, and that also seems clear by the writeup. How, after 2 failures, does the Sith Lord have an apprentice at all? He's too busy doing other actions, and the recruitment never shows up, but the failures do.
That's not random at all, that's based on what's written plainly for all to see.
If you're being THAT careless to miss a minor part about who the killers were, your analysis isn't to be trusted. You were either intentionally lying, or you were so negligent in your review of the night actions that you made a MAJOR mistake. So, your mistake is either intentional or negligent, and heavily damages your credibility.
Oh please, don't even give me that mister amber eyes killer.
Saying this over and over again doesn't make it true.
Neither is your extremely erroneous assumption that I've been recruited or have blocking powers, at least one of which is disproved by a casual reading of the writeups.
There is no evidence of any kind that shows that the Sith have ever performed 3 actions in a single night, even when there were 2 of them alive.
WHAT?
Pardon me, but two murders plus a block on Diamondeye?
This is what, in the legal industry, we call "negative evidence." You are making an assumption about what does exist on the basis of something that did not happen. Because your entire argument is based on, literally, nothing happening, there is no evidentiary basis for your conclusions. They are, at best, theories and nothing more.
I can add.
Qui-Gon Jinn was out and about heading for a particular part of the quarters section when he met one of the crew members. Qui-Gon didn’t really want to talk to anyone at this particular time and was short in his conversation. The other crew member was on the other hand very chatty and Qui-Gon was reduced to listen to this verbose crew member. At a particular junction which was out of ways way, the crew member made a gesture whose signature Qui-Gon knew very well, he had barely time to look surprised before he slumped down onto the floor completely unconscious.
Mara Jade Skywalker, the beautiful descendant of the first Jedi, walked along the hallway leading to her quarters. Her hips swayed extra and she played with her hair thinking about the beauty contest that she had just won and that had been organized just for lulz by the remnant of the Jedi crew. It was nice to be recognized as the most gorgeous chick onboard. She felt particularly feminine this night and she was in a particularly good mood. At an intersection close to her cabin stood a dark presence.
The dark side of the force was reeking from it and amber hateful eyes were observing her approach. Mara felt the threat from it and the feminine sway of her walk turned to determined warrior steps. She ignited her blue lightsabre and approached the dark presence. As she was about to attack this dark being, which could only be a Sith, the being raised both hands and blue energy cascaded from them. Mara was ready though and used the force to deflect the electric lightning. She moved in to strike at the cloaked and dark being with those hateful amber eyes, when she felt a surge through her body. It was as if her very life force was drained from her. She fell helpless to the floor, lightsabre clinking down the hallway. The dark being moved closer to her and smiled:” And so ends the most beautiful woman on this ship and another will take your place.”
She could barely hear the cackling laughter of the retreating Sith as her strength was near completely depleted.
Anakin Skywalker was love struck. He had witnessed the beauty contest and had loudly approved the winner which had sent him some inviting glances. Even though they were distant relatives, they were distant enough to engage in a relationship. That she had the same surname as him was just an advantage. She wouldn’t have to change it should he propose and they were married. He smiled thinking about the prospect.
As he neared her cabin, he saw a lightsabre lying in the hallway. Wasn’t that Mara’s? He hurried along the hallway and saw a slumped body in the intersection up ahead. Could it be? “NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!” He ran the rest of the way and knelt down by the woman he barely knew but yet loved. She was barely breathing. He put her head on his lap and stroke her beautiful auburn hair. She was still semi unconscious, but he thought he saw a smile on her face and a single tear running down her chin. He talked soothingly to her as he sensed that her life force was about to fail. A presence loomed nearby and approached. A sinister voice uttered: “So.. if it isn’t the love birds. You will soon be joined in the hereafter, or maybe not…” The amber glowing eyes were looming over Anakin as he sat with Mara’s head on his lap. He was angry. “You killed her!! I may not be able to best you, but others surely will. You can’t escape, Sith!!.”
The dark being laughed manically and crouched.
Anakin threw up a field of force in front of him and Mara, and as the Sith jumped up and released a torrent of force, the part that hit his field was absorbed. However the hallway around him tore apart and the noise of it was nearly unbearable.
The Sith looked at the untouched Anakin and smiled. “Gooooood... that is a trick which would be nice to learn.”
Anakin felt his world go asunder and it was as if his life force was drained from him. He slumped forward and landed beside Mara who was struggling breathing. Darkness soon overtook Anakin as he no longer had the power to hold his eyes open. But his last view was of a beautiful woman next to him. His last draw of breath was full of her smell. The last touch was of her embrace. He was dying, but he was glad it was next to her.
ONE
TWO
THREE
I've already done that, the missing kill was the action when you were recruited.
That's not quite divine, but it sure is bovine.
That was the first night after Niklas was killed, and the very first thing the Sith did was recruit you, just as you warned us they would way back when you were still a townie. The missing "powers" and inconclusive result have been explained perfectly by Psychonaut here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2484481&viewfull=1#post2484481).
I'll look at it and reply, continuing.
I'm not dismissing it on the basis of one error, I'm dismissing it on the basis of a plethora of errors on which you have built a theory which doesn't even have any actual in-game evidence to back it up. Even with all of your flaws, the best you've managed is a theory, not a case. As for admitting minor technicalities... you totally skipped my argument about your recruitment explaining the missing kill.
Because its totally bleeping false.
I'll keep combing though ATPG's detritus in a bit. Need coffee and a shower. I'll tell you right now though, it's all like this.
Yeah your case was real airtight too, Tincow.
Askthepizzaguy
05-07-2010, 13:08
This is the interesting part. And Chaotix can confirm this 100% if you like. This investigation ability was a scheme to feed false information to suspect players, in the hope they would fall for it and in the process reveal themselves by following the "investigations" by attacking phony targets. Similar to police entrapment. Why do you think early on I thought Niklas was the leak in Beskar's group? I only switched votes back-then because it is not as effective as making judgements on in-thread behaviour, and is prone to coincidental conclusions.
In criminal law, entrapment is when a law enforcement agent induces a person to commit an offense which the person would otherwise have been unlikely to commit.[1] In many jurisdictions, entrapment is a possible defense against criminal liability.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrapment
There's a reason for this. It's ineffective and it could prompt an innocent person to make a mistake. That's all you've managed to do here. Good job.
Chaotix will you confirm both that Psychonaut's "investigations" were made up, and when he informed you of this, please. Also, Psycho, if that's true it was rather irresponsible. You had a couple of people reported as "just sleeping". I tried to get Greyblades out of a lynch based on that information and probably would have succeeded if not for it being a weekend. What if he had been mafia?
This doesn't even make sense.
And wait -- there were names in that list that were not obvious ones (including mine). Where did those names come from if not an investigation ability? Am I missing something? Haven't had coffee, still haven't slept in a week and can't read straight.
autolycus
05-07-2010, 13:18
Lynch Centurion1
Realistically, this could also work:
Today/Tonight:
Lynch Psychonaut
Drain AND Block Centurion1 (stop the kill, remove anti-lynch)
Investigate me, and I will leave my Force Stealth ability OFF.
Tomorrow:
Lynch Centurion1 unless there's still 2 murders, (else lynch me to remove my anti-lynch power, and block/drain/investigate me, lynch me next day)
Block, drain, investigate me anyway.
Final day:
Lynch me.
That doesn't work if the Sith can block Diamondeye, which they clearly can. The only way to get rid of the anti-lynch ability while the Sith can block Diamondeye is the good old-fashioned way, trying to lynch them. Also, if there are still two murders and it's atpg and Cent, they'll be golden. Lynch Cent1 today, and if he doesn't turn up Sith, consider Psycho for the next day.
Askthepizzaguy
05-07-2010, 13:33
I want a fully satisfying explanation to each one of these.
Where's your missing powers?
Yes, the order of things matters. As the actions were done in that order, it means your interrogator couldn't learn anything from you.
This is what you claimed as a defense. What order of actions? Explain this. Where did Sigurd post this? I don't see it anywhere.
Are you saying it matters if someone interrogates you before they also block you, or blocks you then interrogates you? On the same night these actions should happen at the same time. I don't get how that should matter. Both orders should be sent in at the same time. I need further explanation on those mechanics, and I would prefer to have some proof of that somewhere in some writeup where I can see it, not just take your word for what Sigurd said.
What have you been doing all game?
Attempting to lynch Sith. And protecting myself from false accusations, almost continually.
What is Force Healing, and what does it do? Who have you healed with it?
Why is your investigation result SO inconclusive, no race no alignment?
This is the interesting part. And Chaotix can confirm this 100% if you like. This investigation ability was a scheme to feed false information to suspect players, in the hope they would fall for it and in the process reveal themselves by following the "investigations" by attacking phony targets. Similar to police entrapment. Why do you think early on I thought Niklas was the leak in Beskar's group? I only switched votes back-then because it is not as effective as making judgements on in-thread behaviour, and is prone to coincidental conclusions.
Are you saying Diamondeye has no investigation power? This is news to me. I was talking about Diamondeye, not yourself.
Why did the murders dip only when you were blocked and Niklas was dead?
Because. As I have maintained since the beginning, that that night there was one Sith and that night he killed and found a new recruit, and ever since then we are facing 2, yes 2 Sith. Thus 1 kill for a night and then 2 from then onwards.
I disagree, the writeups show an attempted recruitment immediately afterward, twice failing in that regard. I am not getting where you think there is a recruit. I've shown that both Sith have amber eyes, and they have different attack powers, those aren't signatures.
No aggressive powers, no defensive powers, no anti-lynch powers?
I'm still not clear on this. Did Diamondeye drain/investigate you or not? Why did the result indicate you had no powers?
Your little ruse has succeeded in one thing, and that is making this whole situation much harder for me to make any sense of. I'm looking for either Diamondeye or Chaotix to clarify all this.
What was this list of characters you cooked up? Let's start with that.
Why are there two roleblockers then? Seems unbalanced to me. Why was our roleblocker roleblocked, Psycho?
It's not unbalanced, it's called random.org. Remember, this second roleblocker is NOT new. That person roleblocked me back on N8, when Niklas was still alive. By doing so, they cleared me of suspicion at that time. As such, there was no reason, whatsoever, for the Sith to roleblock me. No, that was a roleblock by a townie looking for Sith. Since DE says it wasn't him, it was clearly our second roleblocker. Last night that same roleblocker stopped DE when he was going to target Centurion1. I think we can all agree that was a scum move, no matter how the rest of these arguments fall.
So, the second roleblocker was town on N8, and is Sith now. That's proof of recruitment right there.
The amber eyes clue is also meaningless.
Check out the inconsistency there. Some nights the amber eyes are mentioned for both kills. Both Sith seem to have amber eyes. One night, the amber wasn't even mentioned at all.
On review, this is true. However, the signatures are still there. There was the Sith who relied primarily on the saber and the Sith who relied primarily on the Force. The primary-saber kills stopped after Niklas died. All kills since then have been the Force killer, which still clears Psycho in the same way that I was arguing the eyes thing did.
Chaotix was wrong that he's the only one who can roleblock, that much is clear from the writeup. If the Grand Master has a certain kind of roleblock, it is possible there is more than one kind. Perhaps his only blocks a single attempted action.
Oddly specific information about how the second roleblock works. But, of course, you would know that because you're the second roleblocker.
Those kills are NOT signatures which identify who is who. Those are chosen Sith actions to overcome defenses.
NOTHING in the writeups indicates which Sith is which, except perhaps that one versus Chaotix where both Sith attacked Yoda. That's all I can see.
The writeup "clues" we thought were clues are all misleading. They are NOT indicative of identity.
Incorrect, the fact remains that we have the primary saber killer and the primary force killer. That may well have something to do with the abilities of the individual Sith, but it doesn't change the fact that we haven't seen a single primary saber kill since Niklas died. Thus, the kills are useful for showing identity.
That's incorrect. I have no roleblocking powers.
You'll forgive me for not believing you. I'll wait until DE takes a look at you tonight.
I still haven't found an explanation to all of the problems with Psychonaut, and that is why I am focusing on him.
Psycho's explanation above (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2484481&viewfull=1#post2484481) fits perfectly. If Chaotix confirms his statement about the fake Force Sight, Psycho's as good as gold.
The Sith lord clearly has at least 2 actions, that's proven just by reading it. Then (sorry) I am not a roleblocker and I didn't block Diamondeye. I believe there has been no recruit, and that also seems clear by the writeup. How, after 2 failures, does the Sith Lord have an apprentice at all? He's too busy doing other actions, and the recruitment never shows up, but the failures do.
No recruit? Then how do you explain the shifting motive of the second roleblocker?
Neither is your extremely erroneous assumption that I've been recruited or have blocking powers, at least one of which is disproved by a casual reading of the writeups.
Pardon me, but two murders plus a block on Diamondeye?
Good point, but it still doesn't show three actions by a single Sith. Your entire theory on Psycho is based on him having three night actions every night and the GM roleblock only stopping two of them. You also claim that there is only one Sith left and that they have not recruited a replacement for Niklas. If that is true, then the remaining Sith has held off using his third action every single night. That's insane. If a solo Sith could do 3 actions, we would see 3 deaths. In addition, there is still no basis at all for your assumption that the GM block only stops 2 actions. That's fabricated from nothing. Chaotix and DE both believe that it stops everything, and they would know better than you would.
That's not quite divine, but it sure is bovine.
Excellent argument, kudos.
For those who do not want to read WALLS-O-TEXT, here is my theory about the situation:
Starting Sith: Niklas and Centurion1
Prior to N8, ATPG gains a roleblock ability.
On N8, ATPG roleblocks me, thinking I am Sith.
On D10, Niklas is lynched.
On N10, ATPG is recruited, which accounts for the missing night action.
Every night since bring recruited, ATPG has used Force Stealth on himself to keep anyone from investigating him as Sith. He's already admitted that he was using that power every night. He's playing the sleeper agent.
Last night, ATPG knew that Centurion1 would be nailed by DE, so ATPG stopped using Force Stealth, and used his old roleblock power once again. That stopped DE from scanning or blocking Centurion1.
Nice, clean, and consistent with the evidence. This is a far better theory than the theory that a single Sith gets 3 night actions and the GM roleblock power can only stop 2 of them.
Psychonaut is most certainly NOT as good as gold if Chaotix confirms what he has said. In fact, it would be very nearly a smoking gun.
Let me put this in bold text so it can't be missed:
Psychonaut had the names of four roles, including my own, which had not been revealed in any write-up and which were not roles that should obviously be in the game.
WHERE DID HE GET THE NAME TAHIRI VEILA IF HE'S NOT AN INVESTIGATOR? Where did he get the others?
When saying I'm the best candidate I want to know your evidence.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
Do we have to do this again? <o:p></o:p>
Lurking, right through to the end game. This would normally be enough to warrant a lynch anyway, but we really don't have the time to lynch you just for that.<o:p></o:p>
Suffering from Subotan Syndrome. You say you don't have the time to read through the thread; yet you post from a mobile device and spring up like a Whack-A-Mole whenever your name is mentioned. (Just like now in fact)<o:p></o:p>
Having a Force Breath ability, not informing the town about it, and then letting the town to waste a lynch on it.<o:p></o:p>
Not only that, but self-voting in an attempt to ensure that such an action is carried out.<o:p></o:p>
No physical alibis (I.e. not just a role PM)<o:p></o:p>
Denying that your character was in fact, your character. <o:p></o:p>
Extremely anxious to agree with ATPG when he is not arguing for your death<o:p></o:p>
Did I miss anything? Even if I didn't, there is no-one who has such a comparable mountain of clues(At this moment in time...), that indicate that you are our Darth Scum. <o:p></o:p>
I hav e done nothing to actually prove gujilt besides act scummy.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Scummy is an overused word. It's definition is behaviour that indicates that one is mafia. It is something that must be taken in context, and either be one helluva clue, or be long term consistent behaviour. Too often, "scummy" is used to accuse action which is neither of those things. Happily for us, your behaviour doesn't just indicate one of those requirements, but both. If you are trying to use the negative conotations currently associated with the word "scummy" in an attempt to save yourself, give up. It's not going to work.<o:p></o:p>
Psychonaut is most certainly NOT as good as gold if Chaotix confirms what he has said. In fact, it would be very nearly a smoking gun.
Let me put this in bold text so it can't be missed:
Psychonaut had the names of four roles, including my own, which had not been revealed in any write-up and which were not roles that should obviously be in the game.
WHERE DID HE GET THE NAME TAHIRI VEILA IF HE'S NOT AN INVESTIGATOR? Where did he get the others?
Chaotix could investigate, we know that. If Chaotix and Psycho were working together, Chaotix could have given the names to Psycho. Thus, if Chaotix confirms Psycho's story, he's solid.
Tally:
Centurion1: 4 (DE, Subotan, TinCow, pevergreen)
Psychonaut: 4 (ATPG, Centurion1, split, atheotes)
Please shift votes onto Centurion1. Niklas has not yet voted. We need 2 more votes on Cent1 to actually lynch him. Anything less will let him get away or risk a tie.
Actually, one more, since Psycho will likely not vote for himself.
Askthepizzaguy
05-07-2010, 14:07
It's not unbalanced, it's called random.org. Remember, this second roleblocker is NOT new. That person roleblocked me back on N8, when Niklas was still alive. By doing so, they cleared me of suspicion at that time. As such, there was no reason, whatsoever, for the Sith to roleblock me. No, that was a roleblock by a townie looking for Sith. Since DE says it wasn't him, it was clearly our second roleblocker. Last night that same roleblocker stopped DE when he was going to target Centurion1. I think we can all agree that was a scum move, no matter how the rest of these arguments fall.
So, the second roleblocker was town on N8, and is Sith now. That's proof of recruitment right there.
The first bolded part I agree with.
I am wondering why this roleblocker never revealed to Chaotix.
The second bolded part I am not sure.
On review, this is true. However, the signatures are still there. There was the Sith who relied primarily on the saber and the Sith who relied primarily on the Force. The primary-saber kills stopped after Niklas died. All kills since then have been the Force killer, which still clears Psycho in the same way that I was arguing the eyes thing did.
I do not think this is conclusive. Perhaps Niklas was still learning and gaining powers, and later was able to use similar abilities as his master.
Better than a nothing theory, but that's playing the odds more than having concrete facts.
Oddly specific information about how the second roleblock works. But, of course, you would know that because you're the second roleblocker.
Repeating it doesn't make it true :tongue2:
What I am saying, anyone playing the game would know. Chaotix revealed and suggested that only he had the Mochiro (sp?) power, or only the Grand master would have that power.
Why would he say that with such certainty? If there were other roleblocks present, that suggests otherwise. I do believe the Sith have the power to block, that much is obvious.
Incorrect, the fact remains that we have the primary saber killer and the primary force killer. That may well have something to do with the abilities of the individual Sith, but it doesn't change the fact that we haven't seen a single primary saber kill since Niklas died. Thus, the kills are useful for showing identity.
I disagree; the saber seems to be the most basic form of attack and the Jedi have greater defensive powers now. It stands to reason the Sith wouldn't use something that several people may already have defenses to.
You'll forgive me for not believing you. I'll wait until DE takes a look at you tonight.
That I welcome.
Psycho's explanation above (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2484481&viewfull=1#post2484481) fits perfectly. If Chaotix confirms his statement about the fake Force Sight, Psycho's as good as gold.
That proves he performed a ruse, nothing more.
It's good show, but it doesn't prove him innocent. Why would you assume that? That doesn't seem very grounded in logic.
No recruit? Then how do you explain the shifting motive of the second roleblocker?
I thought it was obvious; the Sith Lord has been gaining more powers and abilities, just as the Jedi have, especially the masters. I believe with Niklas' death the Sith Lord gained extra powers to compensate. I still don't see any possible night of recruitment.
Good point, but it still doesn't show three actions by a single Sith.
No, but if you're being picky about technicalities and so on, you have to keep your own facts in order.
At least give me the same credit you give yourself, which is forgiveness for minor errors which CAN be chalked up to this game being one giant complicated mess compounded with lies and complex mechanisms.
I don't believe you're giving my case a fair shake. That said, please don't assume I am accusing you. I believe you being attacked means I've either got to convince you, or vice versa.
Your entire theory on Psycho is based on him having three night actions every night and the GM roleblock only stopping two of them.
Yes, because of:
You also claim that there is only one Sith left and that they have not recruited a replacement for Niklas.
If that is true, then the remaining Sith has held off using his third action every single night. That's insane.
Do you know what his action options are? You're overlooking possibilities in your haste to discredit me. You're not being impartial.
If a solo Sith could do 3 actions, we would see 3 deaths.
You're countering my theory with an assumption. That's not the best way to argue. Two theories don't cancel each other out; that's only the beginning of a debate.
In addition, there is still no basis at all for your assumption that the GM block only stops 2 actions. That's fabricated from nothing.
It's a possibility, and possibilities are in existence before I even got here. I also argued it only stops 1 action, though it could be two.
Chaotix and DE both believe that it stops everything, and they would know better than you would.
All I am looking for is proof of that somewhere.
Chaotix could investigate, we know that. If Chaotix and Psycho were working together, Chaotix could have given the names to Psycho. Thus, if Chaotix confirms Psycho's story, he's solid.
Seems very unlikely. Psychonaut presented his list of names to Beskar on the day before Beskar was murdered. At this point, Chaotix had revealed only to Beskar as far as I'm aware, and had visibly investigated only Beskar.
Askthepizzaguy
05-07-2010, 14:12
For those who do not want to read WALLS-O-TEXT, here is my theory about the situation:
Starting Sith: Niklas and Centurion1
Prior to N8, ATPG gains a roleblock ability.
On N8, ATPG roleblocks me, thinking I am Sith.
On D10, Niklas is lynched.
On N10, ATPG is recruited, which accounts for the missing night action.
Restatement of your theory, which is full of falsehoods.
Every night since bring recruited, ATPG has used Force Stealth on himself to keep anyone from investigating him as Sith. He's already admitted that he was using that power every night. He's playing the sleeper agent.
That's a lie. Point out ANYWHERE I ever said I used force stealth. I specifically said I NEVER EVER ONCE used it.
You can argue just fine with the facts, don't create your own version of events please.
Last night, ATPG knew that Centurion1 would be nailed by DE, so ATPG stopped using Force Stealth, and used his old roleblock power once again. That stopped DE from scanning or blocking Centurion1.
Well that's just plain false. I have no blocking powers. Find blocking powers in me, or anything Sith-related, and you may dispose of me at your will.
Nice, clean, and consistent with the evidence. This is a far better theory than the theory that a single Sith gets 3 night actions and the GM roleblock power can only stop 2 of them.
It's hard for me to debate the situation with you when you keep putting words into my mouth.
Possible action possibilities for a Sith Lord:
-- evade investigation (we know this is possible)
-- evade roleblock (almost has to be an option if Psycho is mafia -- TinCow if you haven't been recuited please consider the balance issues and the likelihood of this)
-- investigate
For obvious reasons, none of these would be visible in a write-up.
-- kill
-- recruit
I think three actions per night is very likely for the Sith Lord (starting from the point where the Jedi Masters and Grandmasters gained the ability to use two) for balance reasons. I'm unclear on whether a single Sith would be allowed to perform two kills, though I see no reason to rule it out on principle. I don't know whether or not there has been a recruit. But my main issue with Psycho is that apparent lie -- can you at least not push for more votes on Cent until this has been settled or discussed? I don't like you dismissing it just because you can't see the mechanics that would let it be possible: surely a possible lie must trump trying to outguess the GM?
The first bolded part I agree with.
I am wondering why this roleblocker never revealed to Chaotix.
The second bolded part I am not sure.
Why are you not sure? Please explain under what circumstances a Sith would block me on N8.
Since I was not publicly exposed as ANYTHING and had not even given my role name to anyone, there was no way for the Sith to believe that blocking me would help them by preventing me from doing something to them. If they were going to block someone to stop them from doing an action against the Sith, they would have gone for one of the exposed power roles. That wasn't me. By blocking me AND killing 2 other people on the same night, the Sith would do nothing except clear me of suspicion. Niklas is clearly a very good mafia player, he would not have done something that stupid.
So, the N8 roleblock had to be pro-town. Again, pro-town on N8, Sith last night. It's a recruitment
That proves he performed a ruse, nothing more.
It's good show, but it doesn't prove him innocent. Why would you assume that? That doesn't seem very grounded in logic.
It proves that Psycho's story checks out without flaws. That is what I mean by 'solid'. Holes in stories indicate scum. Stories that hold up under scrutiny indicate innocence. That's how this thing works.
I don't believe you're giving my case a fair shake. That said, please don't assume I am accusing you. I believe you being attacked means I've either got to convince you, or vice versa.
I do not believe that there is any possibility of a "vice versa" here. At best, you will shift your vote to Centurion1 if the vote is overwhelmingly against him, just to give yourself more credibility tomorrow.
You're countering my theory with an assumption. That's not the best way to argue. Two theories don't cancel each other out; that's only the beginning of a debate.
If you cancel our theories out, we're still left with the unbelievably scummy behavior of Cent1 throughout the game, and Psychonaut who has confirmed innocent people vouching for him. Why are you so unconcerned about Centurion1? Take a look at Subotan's list of scum on him above. Where's your analysis of Cent1 if you're being so objective? You were all over him yesterday, even straight up mocking him, and today you've essentially ignored him. You're not being consistent at all.
That's a lie. Point out ANYWHERE I ever said I used force stealth. I specifically said I NEVER EVER ONCE used it.
My pleasure:
Scanning me is also pointless until my "stealth" power is removed from me.
If it investigates, have at it, but remember I have the stealth power so that's still not conclusive.
Please start addressing my points, too, TinCow, and not just with handwaving. I understand it's a lot easier to argue with ATPG and all, no matter your own alignment, but I AM making some actual points here.
Edit: good god, even I can see what Pizza was actually trying to say there, and I've been suspicious of him the entire game. That doesn't mean what you think it means.
Please start addressing my points, too, TinCow, and not just with handwaving. I understand it's a lot easier to argue with ATPG and all, no matter your own alignment, but I AM making some actual points here.
Chaotix needs to address your points, not me. Psycho's defense of his fake results is based on cooperation with Chaotix. There is no way I can satisfy your points on that issue, Chaotix has to do it.
Edit: good god, even I can see what Pizza was actually trying to say there, and I've been suspicious of him the entire game. That doesn't mean what you think it means.
Force Stealth is an active ability, you have to use it for it to work. I know because I have it. ATPG would have to be using it for it to work. In addition, why would ATPG have continued using that AFTER he had revealed himself much earlier in the game? Where's the advantage in using it now? I used mine because I was not revealed and did not want to be revealed.
Askthepizzaguy
05-07-2010, 14:37
Force Stealth is an active ability, you have to use it for it to work. I know because I have it. ATPG would have to be using it for it to work. In addition, why would ATPG have continued using that AFTER he had revealed himself much earlier in the game? Where's the advantage in using it now? I used mine because I was not revealed and did not want to be revealed.
PLEASE LISTEN.... I stated several times I've never ever used it ever, based on that reasoning.
My pleasure:
DUDE! It's right in front of your face, I said I HAD the power, that isn't saying I used it! In fact I can point to several posts which say I specifically never used it!
Chaotix needs to address your points, not me. Psycho's defense of his fake results is based on cooperation with Chaotix. There is no way I can satisfy your points on that issue, Chaotix has to do it.
This is simply not true. As I just said to you in PM, you could acknoweldge my refutation of your original explanation. You could CERTAINLY comment on whether you think the possibility that Psychonaut has unacccounted-for knowledge is worth pursuing. If you do think it's worth pursuing, you could refrain from trying to drive up votes on Cent until this has been addressed. If you don't -- want to put yourself on record?
Force Stealth is an active ability, you have to use it for it to work. I know because I have it. ATPG would have to be using it for it to work. In addition, why would ATPG have continued using that AFTER he had revealed himself much earlier in the game? Where's the advantage in using it now? I used mine because I was not revealed and did not want to be revealed.
He didn't spell it out, but it was perfectly clear to me that he was not saying he WAS using it, it was saying that any investigation on him would be worthless because of the POSSIBILITY that he could use it.
DUDE! It's right in front of your face, I said I HAD the power, that isn't saying I used it! In fact I can point to several posts which say I specifically never used it!
Why would you even want to use it after you'd been revealed? Why would you say that?
Please also address my evidence about the roleblocker. The evidence I have presented proves a recruitment occurred. Since your theory is based on no recruitment occurring, you need to address that.
Askthepizzaguy
05-07-2010, 14:43
If you cancel our theories out, we're still left with the unbelievably scummy behavior of Cent1 throughout the game, and Psychonaut who has confirmed innocent people vouching for him. Why are you so unconcerned about Centurion1? Take a look at Subotan's list of scum on him above. Where's your analysis of Cent1 if you're being so objective? You were all over him yesterday, even straight up mocking him, and today you've essentially ignored him. You're not being consistent at all.
Consistency is not always a virtue.
Centurion1 claimed he has a lynch immunity. Well, if he doesn't, that's a lie, isn't it? And we can drain him/investigate him and find out. If he doesn't have it, he's guilty, and he's dead. Boom.
If he has it, we're wasting our time.
My analysis is that Centurion1 needs to die tomorrow, and Psychonaut needs to die today, because Psychonaut is a huge suspect and he has no lynch protection.
Centurion1 claimed he has a lynch immunity. Well, if he doesn't, that's a lie, isn't it? And we can drain him/investigate him and find out. If he doesn't have it, he's guilty, and he's dead. Boom.
If he has it, we're wasting our time.
If you're right, the worst we do is blow another lynch immunity on a townie. If you're wrong, we kill a power town role with the ability to protect others.
Askthepizzaguy
05-07-2010, 14:45
Why would you even want to use it after you'd been revealed? Why would you say that?[
Never once stated that I wanted to use it. I stated oh about five times or so over the course of the game that after being scanned as susceptible, gaining Force Stealth gives me nothing. If I use it, and I have different investigation results, that means I am hiding something. Town or Sith, doesn't matter; trying to hide from a scan means I have to die. Using force stealth hastens my death. I said that over and over.
What I said later on is that you should remove my force stealth power, then scan me. It might actually be more conclusive, so you DONT waste a lynch.
Please also address my evidence about the roleblocker. The evidence I have presented proves a recruitment occurred. Since your theory is based on no recruitment occurring, you need to address that.
It doesn't prove a recruitment occurred. My theory says that the Sith Lord has three actions, and those were his most recent three.
There's nothing disproving it, and the writeups indicate my theory more than yours.
Never once stated that I wanted to use it. I stated oh about five times or so over the course of the game that after being scanned as susceptible, gaining Force Stealth gives me nothing. If I use it, and I have different investigation results, that means I am hiding something. Town or Sith, doesn't matter; trying to hide from a scan means I have to die. Using force stealth hastens my death. I said that over and over.
What I said later on is that you should remove my force stealth power, then scan me. It might actually be more conclusive, so you DONT waste a lynch.
This is false and misleading. Force Stealth does not work unless you submit night orders to use it. If your'e not using it, investigation results on you would be accurate, so there would be no need to drain it from you. Why would you want to force people to waste a drain on you? Do you not trust DE now as well?
It doesn't prove a recruitment occurred. My theory says that the Sith Lord has three actions, and those were his most recent three.
There's nothing disproving it, and the writeups indicate my theory more than yours.
Stop dodging the question. Please provide a theory under which the roleblock of me on N8 helps the Sith.
Askthepizzaguy
05-07-2010, 14:54
If you're right, the worst we do is blow another lynch immunity on a townie. If you're wrong, we kill a power town role with the ability to protect others.
I am not looking forward to two more murders tonight, Tincow, with no progress.
I know what the alternative is. Centurion1 gets lynched and it fails, Askthepizzaguy gets drained and scanned, Centurion1 gets blocked, and Psychonaut is free to block/murder/murder once again, if I am right.
Then we still have: Askthepizzaguy, Centurion1, and Psychonaut alive, and fewer townies to overturn the Sith's two votes (or three, should YOUR theory be right)
We cannot afford a miss. The fastest route to removing Psycho and Centurion1 is one sequence of events:
1. Psycho lynched, dies.
2. Centurion1 blocked, drained. Askthepizzaguy investigated; leads to my death if I were lying or if two murders occurred while Cent was blocked.
3. Centurion1 lynched, Askthepizzaguy drained, blocked, investigated
That is how all 3 suspects die. Any other option doesn't work if Centurion1 really does have anti-lynch powers, which we could prove.
I am not looking forward to two more murders tonight, Tincow, with no progress.
I know what the alternative is. Centurion1 gets lynched and it fails, Askthepizzaguy gets drained and scanned, Centurion1 gets blocked, and Psychonaut is free to block/murder/murder once again, if I am right.
Then we still have: Askthepizzaguy, Centurion1, and Psychonaut alive, and fewer townies to overturn the Sith's two votes (or three, should YOUR theory be right)
We cannot afford a miss. The fastest route to removing Psycho and Centurion1 is one sequence of events:
1. Psycho lynched, dies.
2. Centurion1 blocked, drained. Askthepizzaguy investigated; leads to my death if I were lying or if two murders occurred while Cent was blocked.
3. Centurion1 lynched, Askthepizzaguy drained, blocked, investigated
That is how all 3 suspects die. Any other option doesn't work if Centurion1 really does have anti-lynch powers, which we could prove.
If Cent1 is the Sith, then he will not get blocked and drained last night for the same reason he was not blocked and drained last night. There is no perfect solution here, it is either Psycho or Cent1, and there is no way to handle them both flawlessly.
Askthepizzaguy
05-07-2010, 14:56
This is false and misleading. Force Stealth does not work unless you submit night orders to use it. If your'e not using it, investigation results on you would be accurate, so there would be no need to drain it from you. Why would you want to force people to waste a drain on you? Do you not trust DE now as well?
I think we're talking past each other. You're arguing against things I didn't say.
Investigation results on me would be NOT TRUSTWORTHY until I had no more Force Stealth. I mean, I have a trustworthy face, I am sure, but just because I say I am not using it... do you get it now? I'm NOT using it, but you don't know that and scanning me is a waste while I have the power.
Stop dodging the question. Please provide a theory under which the roleblock of me on N8 helps the Sith.
Easily; Sith gains this power, and in addition to their other powers of murder, they decide they can also try to root out pro-town roles and stop them from working. They try it out, and perhaps later get even better powers which they decide to use instead, but later find instances where using it would be a good idea.
I think we're talking past each other. You're arguing against things I didn't say.
Investigation results on me would be NOT TRUSTWORTHY until I had no more Force Stealth. I mean, I have a trustworthy face, I am sure, but just because I say I am not using it... do you get it now? I'm NOT using it, but you don't know that and scanning me is a waste while I have the power.
Results onto a target using Force Stealth would very clearly show a lack of information. Given your status as a revealed role, that by itself would be proof of your guilt. There is no situation in which results on you are not proof of something. If you're not using Force Stealth, the results will show your alignment and we lynch or clear you according to what they say. If the results are unclear, you were using Force Stealth, which means you're scum and we lynch you. It's simple.
You're trying to manufacture evidence to keep you alive in future rounds.
Easily; Sith gains this power, and in addition to their other powers of murder, they decide they can also try to root out pro-town roles and stop them from working. They try it out, and perhaps later get even better powers which they decide to use instead, but later find instances where using it would be a good idea.
Then why did they leave me alive once they knew I had been cleared of being Sith? They've constantly knocked off all other confirmed innocents who weren't likely protected at night, why did they spare me? And if they were using the block to hunt for pro-town roles, why weren't they just blocking DE?
Centurion1 claimed he has a lynch immunity. Well, if he doesn't, that's a lie, isn't it? And we can drain him/investigate him and find out. If he doesn't have it, he's guilty, and he's dead. Boom.
If he has it, we're wasting our time.
No, we can't, someone can but last night noone could as someone blocked someone who could so if we are going to trust on that, we may just as well waste another round because who tells us that Qui-Gon is not killed or blocked again next night?
In other words, if the Sith can block now it's perfectly possible that the town can't do anything at night anymore except die or survive a kill attempt so for now I'd scrap that from the list of possibilities. And besides, you've been crying to get scanned and whatnot for the last few rounds now, it hasn't happened so far, I have no idea why, but it's possible that you only did so knowing you could hide yourself from it anyway. You saw it wasn't happening/knew one of the investigators would die tonight (Anakin), so you used your ability to block the other (Qui-Gon tonight instead of hiding your abilities, now that you could be relatively sure that there wasn't a third investigator.
Or maybe TinCow was recruited after he survived the attack...
I say this again because we earlier established that only Jedi who the Sith found to be worthy (clearly, surviving a Sith attack makes someone worthy I guess) were recruited, I haven't really checked that theory against the night actions/promotions etc., but maybe you'd be willing to look into it, might help clear yourself as well.
I do find it less likely than you being Sith though.
Askthepizzaguy
05-07-2010, 15:05
If Cent1 is the Sith, then he will not get blocked and drained last night for the same reason he was not blocked and drained last night. There is no perfect solution here, it is either Psycho or Cent1, and there is no way to handle them both flawlessly.
If it is Psychonaut, lynching him proves he was lying about not having anti-lynch powers, which results in exposure of a Sith and leads to a win.
Or, he dies, and the game is over I believe. Or we're down to just one Sith again.
If it is Centurion1, and he has anti-lynch, we've accomplished nothing and proven nothing except he was telling the truth. Then we cannot do anything to him tonight, as you said. In the meantime, all suspects are still alive and there's murders, which is bad.
If he's lying and doesn't have that power, then he's dead tomorrow anyway.
I'm about to toss in the towel though. I gave it a supreme effort to advocate this theory, which if I am wrong ruins the game, and if I am right, doesn't matter because I am not gaining any ground.
Askthepizzaguy
05-07-2010, 15:07
Then why did they leave me alive once they knew I had been cleared of being Sith? They've constantly knocked off all other confirmed innocents who weren't likely protected at night, why did they spare me? And if they were using the block to hunt for pro-town roles, why weren't they just blocking DE?
Why is Diamondeye alive at all?
He's investigated a Sith and let him go, that's why.
I give up.
Renata will have to pick up where I left off. I will move my vote to where atheotes and Chaotix wish me to move it, and I encourage all townies to do the same. Both prosecutors have made their cases, and further argument by me won't change any minds.
If it is Psychonaut, lynching him proves he was lying about not having anti-lynch powers, which results in exposure of a Sith and leads to a win.
Or, he dies, and the game is over I believe. Or we're down to just one Sith again.
If it is Centurion1, and he has anti-lynch, we've accomplished nothing and proven nothing except he was telling the truth. Then we cannot do anything to him tonight, as you said. In the meantime, all suspects are still alive and there's murders, which is bad.
If he's lying and doesn't have that power, then he's dead tomorrow anyway.
I'm about to toss in the towel though. I gave it a supreme effort to advocate this theory, which if I am wrong ruins the game, and if I am right, doesn't matter because I am not gaining any ground.
And what if it's Centurion1 and he doesn't have a second anti-lynch?
Again, I must emphasize that we are comparing the lynching of someone who has not contributed AT ALL to finding Sith, and who claims to not have any useful anti-Sith abilities, to a person who claims the only known Doctor ability in the game. Get this wrong, and DE will die tonight because he will no longer be protected. I am not willing to take that risk.
Hello, I would just like to notify the two of you that I and others are posting here as well.
If you read my post and think it's rubbish, it would be nice if you just tell me that so I don't feel ignored and sad*, is it not bad enough that I died right away? ~:(
*it's okay if it's rubbish because I don't have the time like you guys to analyze the last 80 or so pages, I'm just try to point out things others seem to be missing and then this is apparently ignored so these things go completely unnoticed while they may be helpful, no problem if they aren't though, well, have to prepare to catch a train now...
Kagemusha
05-07-2010, 15:21
Lynch Centurion and investigate ATPG.
Hello, I would just like to notify the two of you that I and others are posting here as well.
If you read my post and think it's rubbish, it would be nice if you just tell me that so I don't feel ignored and sad*, is it not bad enough that I died right away? ~:(
Sorry, I didn't respond to you because I didn't think I needed to. I agree with you fully on the first point. On the second, if surviving a Sith attack is the only way to get recruited, that kind of makes all of these defensive powers Sigurd created pretty useless.
Askthepizzaguy
05-07-2010, 15:36
And what if it's Centurion1 and he doesn't have a second anti-lynch?
That is the risk. In the final analysis, maybe that's too much to risk. I guess I just prefer a decisive move on Centurion1 or Psychonaut. I thought the safer move was Psychonaut.
Again, I must emphasize that we are comparing the lynching of someone who has not contributed AT ALL to finding Sith, and who claims to not have any useful anti-Sith abilities, to a person who claims the only known Doctor ability in the game. Get this wrong, and DE will die tonight because he will no longer be protected. I am not willing to take that risk.
I would bet the entire game on an assessment of who I believe is most capable and most likely to be scum, and ignore other things like if he might be a doctor or not. Any suspect can claim doctor, but is the player guilty or innocent?
To me, as there are only two likely lynches this round, if you want to catch a Sith, you should look for the one most capable and likely to be scum. IMO that is Psychonaut, and darn the risks.
And, any bet we place is a high risk bet. It's not like we are much safer if Centurion1 is lynched and turns out to be innocent than vice versa. Especially if said doctor role could be blocked.
I'd pick based on the man, my pick is Psychonaut. His doctor claim and ability image revealed means I could be wrong, I don't see how else he got that image unless he could scan for that ability in others and then copied the image for himself. That's a long shot, so I probably have to withdraw here.
Which ability? The force healing? Why would a Sith not be able to claim that ability legitimately? There is (theoretically) the possiblity of vigs in this game.
Askthepizzaguy
05-07-2010, 15:39
Hello, I would just like to notify the two of you that I and others are posting here as well.
If you read my post and think it's rubbish, it would be nice if you just tell me that so I don't feel ignored and sad*, is it not bad enough that I died right away? ~:(
I hear you Husar, but it is 1035 AM, which is about 5 hours past my bedtime (day sleeper) and I have worn myself out arguing with the only people who could possibly save the game if I am right.
Unfortunately you got lost in the shuffle and I'm beat. Will respond later, but round may be over by then.
unvote, vote: Centurion1
As I have not won the necessary votes.
Askthepizzaguy
05-07-2010, 15:40
Which ability? The force healing? Why would a Sith not be able to claim that ability legitimately? There is (theoretically) the possiblity of vigs in this game.
Maybe, but it's a long shot, and I'm tired.
I also am starting to lose faith in this theory. Maybe I have confirmation bias, like I said to you privately.
OK, one thing for the record: Diamondeye is town. Reason being -- Chaotix confirms that the roleblock ability is Grandmaster Level. That means the Jedi GrandMaster and (presumably) the Sith Lord, no one else. DE was blocked by the Sith Lord; he's not the Sith Lord. And by his own statement of non-recruitability, which I doubt he would have lied about and which the Sith would have to be a little crazy to test anyway, he is not likely to be a recruit. So he's Town.
Why's he still alive, given his two ostensibly dangerous abilities? *Because he hasn't been dangerous.*
Most of Diamondeye's actions have been predictable, but not all. In particular, his actions from the night before last. Cent couldn't have know he would not be investigated or roleblocked that night. Even Subotan, with his suspicious investigation result, couldn't have known he would not be the roleblock target instead. Yet nothing was done about Diamondeye on that night. Who *could* know he wasn't going to be targeted? Psychonaut.
As for last night, well Centurion's been about the scummiest thing going, but that doesn't make him scum. Some of his comments from yesterday strike me as very lost-townie, though few seem to agree. If he is town, his scummy behavior provides a perfect rationale for a scapegoat roleblocking of Diamondeye. So does Subotan's. Can't have the investigator clearing two top suspects with mere days left in the game, right? People might start re-examining previous assumptions.
Now Psychonaut. Forget the write-ups for a moment. We do NOT know what Sigurd has allowed and has not allowed to the Sith Lord, and it's foolish to make assumptions. Look at behavior.
On Beskar's last day alive, Psychonaut provided a list of names to Beskar, ostensibly obtained through some sort of investigation ability. Upon questioning it was determined to be a mixture of people known to be in the game based on write-ups, good guesses, and (again obstensibly) a few names gleaned from actual investigation. Psychonaut sent me a PM summarizing all of his results, which were largely not useful. However, a few players were named as likely-Sith-susceptible (or likely not); and one was named as having been sleeping on a particular night. Notably, my own name, which Niklas knew, was missing from this original accounting. However, there were still at least three names which Psychonaut could not have guessed, and which were accurate.
The question is whether Psychonaut could have been told of these names. They are:
Sifo Dyas (Jolt/split)
Atris (Kagemusha)
Corran Horn (Joooray)
Did these people reveal to Psycho? Did anyone else tell Psycho who these people were?
And of course:
Tahiri Veila (me)
I didn't tell Psychonaut who I was. I did tell Niklas. And Psycho left me out of his first accounting of his investigation results.
The point I keep trying to make is that:
1. The Sith Lord probably is an investigator.
2. Psycho has claimed knowledge that as far as I'm aware he can't have come up with unless he was an investigator.
3. Psycho denies ever having been an investigator.
Does his behavior support the idea that he is the Sith Lord? IMO it does. He stopped providing investigation results at that time, without explanation, and did not respond by PM. This makes no sense for town even if I were to accept the ruse he claims to have been running with Chaotix -- why stop *then*? Why not feed more false results through Chaotix in order to try to manipulate the Sith Lord? The Sith Lord's *actual* activities have been near-optimal.
And if there was a reason to stop then, why not 'fess up? Why make claims such as those made for Sifo Dyas (Jolt/split) and Lar Le'Ung (Greyblades) (that they were sleeping on a given night) that could have resulted in disaster if either of those players had been mafia? Beskar never investigated either of them. Chaotix does not appear to have. Psychonaut *himself* wrote out a long accusation of Greyblades on the very same day he reported the Lar Le-Ung result, so it wasn't people whose claims he knew and thought they were innocent, either.
If you guys don't kill him and Psychonaut does turn out to be the Sith Lord, I get "I told you so" credit for about the next year and a half.
(Of course if I'm wrong that's just par for the course.)
But if he is not an investigator, how did he learn those roles? Psycho, tell me. I promise I'll stop bugging you (for now) if you can provide this information.
Centurion1
05-07-2010, 16:16
Oh I forgot that wall of text is evidence now. I can't wait for the lynch I'm so excited
Diamondeye
05-07-2010, 16:19
atheotes and splitpersonality, if you are town you will vote for centurion1 today.
The remaining mafia are centurion1 and (recruited) ATPG.
We cannot rely on my night abilities to work, so we need the town to hurry up about this.
You have roughly seven hours to change your vote.
Also, Chaotix, if you'd please vote Cent1 aswell.
I'd actually vote ATPG as the Sith Lord before I'd vote him as recruited, or before I'd vote Cent at all. Either way, I suck.
There's a major flaw with your case Renata. If you accept that DE has the GM roleblock ability, then you must accept that the GM roleblock was used on Psychonaut twice and the GM Drain once. By that point, DE had been exposed as Qui-Gon and Psychonaut had been working with him. Psychonaut knew he was going to be subjected to those abilities at that time, yet no actions were taken against DE, neither attacks nor blocks.
So, in order for your theory to be true, the following also needs to be true:
1) Psychonaut knew that the GM Drain would not expose him as Sith, even though we now know that it did expose Niklas as Sith.
2) The GM roleblock has to be useless at stopping night actions, and Psychonaut has to have known that even though Chaotix and DE don't.
Neither of those make any sense.
I agree Psycho needs to explain where he got the names from, but I don't see him as the Sith Lord at all.
atheotes
05-07-2010, 17:06
Possible action possibilities for a Sith Lord:
-- evade investigation (we know this is possible)
-- evade roleblock (almost has to be an option if Psycho is mafia -- TinCow if you haven't been recuited please consider the balance issues and the likelihood of this)
-- investigate
For obvious reasons, none of these would be visible in a write-up.
-- kill
-- recruit
I think three actions per night is very likely for the Sith Lord (starting from the point where the Jedi Masters and Grandmasters gained the ability to use two) for balance reasons. I'm unclear on whether a single Sith would be allowed to perform two kills, though I see no reason to rule it out on principle. I don't know whether or not there has been a recruit. But my main issue with Psycho is that apparent lie -- can you at least not push for more votes on Cent until this has been settled or discussed? I don't like you dismissing it just because you can't see the mechanics that would let it be possible: surely a possible lie must trump trying to outguess the GM?
to add on, here is what i think about the multiple abilities:
After the death of Niklas, the sith Lord got to use abilities - as a power balance.
when he recruited an apprentice, the Jedi masters get to use an additional ability.
Now i wish i had the time to go and look at the write-ups and timings to assess the above theory. Now that work has gotten busy i am back to catch up mode :wall:
to add on, here is what i think about the multiple abilities:
After the death of Niklas, the sith Lord got to use abilities - as a power balance.
when he recruited an apprentice, the Jedi masters get to use an additional ability.
Now i wish i had the time to go and look at the write-ups and timings to assess the above theory. Now that work has gotten busy i am back to catch up mode :wall:
This is wrong. The upgrade to powers was given out after N8. Niklas didn't get lynched until D10. It occurred while both starting Sith were still alive.
atheotes
05-07-2010, 17:22
This is wrong. The upgrade to powers was given out after N8. Niklas didn't get lynched until D10. It occurred while both starting Sith were still alive.
there goes what i thought was "useful contribution" :laugh4:
thanks for correcting me :bow:
I agree Psycho needs to explain where he got the names from, but I don't see him as the Sith Lord at all.
I got half of them from trawling through Wookiepedia for countless hours, the other half from the write-ups. Then I linked them with speculation and guess work, and laced them with falsehoods. As I said to Chaotix any truths that may have arisen are purely coincidental, ESP to use ATPG's term.
Edit - It's not too difficult to make significant guess-work by taking Wookiepedia as a guideline.
There's a major flaw with your case Renata. If you accept that DE has the GM roleblock ability, then you must accept that the GM roleblock was used on Psychonaut twice and the GM Drain once. By that point, DE had been exposed as Qui-Gon and Psychonaut had been working with him. Psychonaut knew he was going to be subjected to those abilities at that time, yet no actions were taken against DE, neither attacks nor blocks.
My speculation is that the Sith Lord has abilities to evade or fool both investigations and blocks; however, it takes an active ability to do so. (Akin to the stealth ability.) This would explain, for example, why on the night after Niklas was lynched, there was only one kill/recruit visible in the write-up. Psycho knew he was bait for one more investigation or roleblock; hence had to guard against both. By the next night, he was cleared of suspicion, so was free to both kill and recruit (or kill twice; as I've said I'm not sure when or if there has been a successful recruitment), as well as to use one additional ability if he wished.
Turn that night after Niklas' lynch on its head and try to explain by anyone other than Psychonaut being the Sith Lord. The Sith Lord *must* have at least two independent actions; anything else would be ridiculously unbalanced. He's seen in the write-up failing to recruit Diana Abnoba. Where's the other action?
I got half of them from trawling through Wookiepedia for countless hours, the other half from the write-ups. Then I linked them with speculation and guess work, and laced them with falsehoods. As I said to Chaotix any truths that may have arisen are purely coincidental, ESP to use ATPG's term.
You guessed half of them without ever getting a single one wrong?
atheotes
05-07-2010, 17:30
Outside of the people making cases - here is what i see(it could be biased due to my own opinions):
Psychonaut - He could be cleared based on the blocks done by DE when we still had 2 kills. But there are some loose ends he needs to tie. if he and Chaotix could help us with those then we can clear him and move on.
Centurion1 - Scummiest going around. I for one, dont believe his gaining the breath control ability again. He stood to gain the most if DE had been roleblocked. Only mitigating factor is it is the most obvious. We should definitely lynch him if we can clear Psycho.
Atpg - He is making a lot of assumptions in theories that is a mixture of information in thread and speculation (inside information perhaps :juggle2:). He needs to be investigated or blocked.
Tincow - Seemingly cleared due to the roleblock and attack by the sith. But that still leaves him susceptible for conversion (which is true for everyone alive barring DE). So not a priority for the day or tonight
Rest of the people - I dont have a strong opinion either way.
Okay Psychonaut, now say the timing (of you telling the ruse to Chaotix) and the motivations for everything. You say you suspected that Niklas was Beskar's leak and you wanted to entrap him. What did you envision happening, best case? You gave Beskar only a list of names. The more detailed information you gave to me didn't come until several days later, and you could not know I would give it to Niklas directly. As far as I'm aware you never told it to anyone else.
The bolded parts are what I most want a response to.
My speculation is that the Sith Lord has abilities to evade or fool both investigations and blocks; however, it takes an active ability to do so. (Akin to the stealth ability.) This would explain, for example, why on the night after Niklas was lynched, there was only one kill/recruit visible in the write-up. Psycho knew he was bait for one more investigation or roleblock; hence had to guard against both. By the next night, he was cleared of suspicion, so was free to both kill and recruit (or kill twice; as I've said I'm not sure when or if there has been a successful recruitment), as well as to use one additional ability if he wished.
But that doesn't explain how he evaded the first roleblock, when there were 2 kills in the write-up. The second block with the single dropped kills has some merit, but it's the first block that convinces me.
You guessed half of them without ever getting a single one wrong?
That too.
Lar Le'Ung, Atris, Sifo Dyas, Tahiri Veila and Corran Horn -- all from Wookiepedia with no false positives? To be honest I was expecting you to say you trolled through Sigurd's photobucket account.
That too.
Lar Le'Ung, Atris, Sifo Dyas, Tahiri Veila and Corran Horn -- all from Wookiepedia with no false positives? To be honest I was expecting you to say you trolled through Sigurd's photobucket account.
Renata, this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2480139&viewfull=1#post2480139) is the post I'm working off of. Can you tell us the date and time that you received each of those PMs?
But that doesn't explain how he evaded the first roleblock, when there were 2 kills in the write-up. The second block with the single dropped kills has some merit, but it's the first block that convinces me.
Niklas was still alive then and knew he would be drained/investigated. There were hints in the day thread both of a town roleblocker and that Psychonaut might be the target. So Psycho evade roleblock/kill; Niklas kill; or Psycho evade roleblock/kill twice; Niklas do nothing; or Psycho act innocent and Niklas kill twice. Not entirely sure what the options there are, but I don't think it can be ruled out unless you're confident that the Sith Lord wouldn't have three actions at that point AND that the Sith Lord couldn't evade a roleblock by using up an action AND that a single Sith (either one) couldn't perform both kills.
Renata, this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2480139&viewfull=1#post2480139) is the post I'm working off of. Can you tell us the date and time that you received each of those PMs?
Yes, though I'm at the library right at the moment waiting for the kiddo to get out of pre-school. I'll get them in an hour or so.
You guessed half of them without ever getting a single one wrong?
I only ever stated about 3-4 that weren't in the write-ups at any given stage. My method was to think like Sigurd would have when he designed the game. Go to the page of a known role and then open all the links to Jedi on that page, then close all the pages with a) no profile image and b) very little background story. This left me with very few. This on top of the ones that I gathered from what people claimed in thread or hints in posts. It was really quite simple to guess role names.
I only ever stated about 3-4 that weren't in the write-ups at any given stage. My method was to think like Sigurd would have when he designed the game. Go to the page of a known role and then open all the links to Jedi on that page, then close all the pages with a) no profile image and b) very little background story. This left me with very few. This on top of the ones that I gathered from what people claimed in thread or hints in posts. It was really quite simple to guess role names.
These are the ones you listed that weren't in the write-ups:
Luke Skywalker
Sifo Dyas
Atris
Corran Horn
Micah Giiett
Luke is obvious, so you're fine there. Atris... maybe. Obvious with the KOTOR games taken into account, but that's stretching it. Corran Horn I suppose you can get a pass on since he's got a monster length Bio.
However, nailing Sifo Dyas (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sifo_Dyas) and Micah Giiett (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Micah_Giiett) doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Why would you have picked them over other roles? For instance, Sify Dyas is apparently strongest linked and most commonly mentioned with Dooku. It makes sense that you'd look at Dooku early on because of Beskar's reveal, but if you read Dooku's bio (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Dooku), Sifo doesn't even get mentioned until several sections down. Before him, the page includes names of a whole bunch of other people, including Oppo Rancisis (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Oppo_Rancisis) who is specifically named as a Jedi Master and has about as perfect and complete a biography as you could hope for. It makes no sense that you would have browsed the Dooku page and discarded Oppo Rancisis, but kept Sifo Dyas.
I will give you the benefit of the doubt and refrain from switching my vote for a very short period of time. If you want that period of time to be extended, you had best explain EXACTLY how and why you picked all five of those names.
You know what, I'm not going to give you the benefit of the doubt. This finally makes one last bit of evidence I have make sense. When Sigurd accidentally posted my name in the thread instead of Belth's I PMed him about it asking if it was correct. He fixed it, but also replied:
In the latest write-up, you named me as Belth. Is that intentional? I haven't seen you use someone's role name with their handle before.
Sorry, my mistake. There shouldn't have been a connection between your character name and .org name.
I shall upgrade you with force protect to compensate.
I doubt the "reveal" have exposed you any less than if I hadn't mistakenly put your name in the thread.
I have said too much.
Sigurd
I have bolded the important bit. The way that reads, the mafia already knew who I was, even though I had never revealed my name to ANYONE before that night. That means knowledge via an investigate power. Your perfect accuracy on the role names seems like too much of a coincidence given this information.
Unvote; Vote: Psychonaut
Explain yourself, in great detail.
Sasaki Kojiro
05-07-2010, 18:33
Yes. Psycho is responding selectively. He's a better lynch than cent.
I will give you the benefit of the doubt and refrain from switching my vote for a very short period of time. If you want that period of time to be extended, you had best explain EXACTLY how and why you picked all five of those names.
With all honesty I double checked with the URLs. Like you did earlier to find Mas Amedda. I did it with a few, then felt naughty and stopped. :embarassed:
And in response to post above. I never knew who you were until autolycus PMed me a few days ago.
And the way I read this:
I doubt the "reveal" have exposed you any less than if I hadn't mistakenly put your name in the thread.
Is that a) a Sith would know you are town anyway and b) they wouldn't know your level regardless, so nothing has changed with the slip up.
Yes. Psycho is responding selectively. He's a better lynch than cent.
Because it's 3am and I'm doing an assignment/following the British election. And no I am not a better lynch than Cent.
atheotes
05-07-2010, 18:37
nevermind
With all honesty I double checked with the URLs. Like you did earlier to find Mas Amedda. I did it with a few, then felt naughty and stopped. :embarassed:
Hmm... this checks out. I tested, and all 5 of those pictures do indeed show up with the simple substitute method I used. That makes perfect sense.
Unvote; Vote: Centurion1
This is why lying is bad, even if you're a townie.
atheotes
05-07-2010, 18:47
Hmm... this checks out. I tested, and all 5 of those pictures do indeed show up with the simple substitute method I used. That makes perfect sense.
Unvote; Vote: Centurion1
This is why lying is bad, even if you're a townie.
I am not convinced. What is to say he did not get the idea from Renata's post?
What are the implications if we lynch Centurion today, given Diamondeye's abilities and Psychonaut's claimed protective ability?
Clearly if Centurion dies, we've gotten a Sith. Yippee and all that. But if he doesn't. Who's left alive?
Also, Psycho, you might want to answer my questions as long as you're confessing to unhelpful lies. I bolded them even; I'm helpful like that.
I am not convinced. What is to say he did not get the idea from Renata's post?
The names thing was the only thing I saw off about Psychonaut. He has explained the names situation in a way that is entirely plausible and consistent with everything we know about this game. So, we're now back at the point we were at before, where Psycho has a plausible story that makes sense, while Centurion1 remains extremely scummy with no exculpatory evidence.
My method of mafia hunting is to look for contradictions and changes in behavior which don't make sense. I do not currently see any of that in Psycho, while I see it all over the place with Cent1 and ATPG.
What are the implications if we lynch Centurion today, given Diamondeye's abilities and Psychonaut's claimed protective ability?
Clearly if Centurion dies, we've gotten a Sith. Yippee and all that. But if he doesn't. Who's left alive?
Current alive players:
Askthepizzaguy
Centurion1
Diamondeye
pevergreen
Psychonaut
splitpersonality
Subotan
TinCow
If Cent1 is lynched and doesn't die, two of those people will be killed tonight. We should assume a worst-case-scenario, which is DE is one of the dead and there are 2 Sith still alive. That will result in a phase tomorrow with 6 alive, max 2 Sith. So, even if we get this wrong with a Cent1 lynch, it's not instant death. Tomorrow will be instant death if we get it wrong, but I see no way of avoiding that no matter what we do.
Also, Psycho, you might want to answer my questions as long as you're confessing to unhelpful lies. I bolded them even; I'm helpful like that.
Woops. Missed them. An 8 hour work day + 8 hours worth of doing assignments is not really conducive to reading walls of text. I'll get to them.
Okay Psychonaut, now say the timing (of you telling the ruse to Chaotix) and the motivations for everything. What did you envision happening, best case?
I started it early on, before I knew who Chaotix was, I only explained it to him later on. I think, sometime around when we were trying to figure out the overlap with myself and Diamondeye going to the holocron. My motivations? Frustration at being a master with no abilities for absolutely ages. Best case, I hoped it would work and I'd catch someone. Worst case, it'd get me lynched, but hey that's a risk worth taking.
You say you suspected that Niklas was Beskar's leak and you wanted to entrap him.
No, no you've got it the wrong way round. As a result of the false information I suspected him, not that I was specifically targeting him. I was suspicious of Beskar's initial group. The fact that my information didn't seem to influence who was killed and your responses to me cleared you in my mind. That left one player unaccounted for at that stage: Niklas. Pretty rudimentary stuff really.
You gave Beskar only a list of names. The more detailed information you gave to me didn't come until several days later, and you could not know I would give it to Niklas directly. As far as I'm aware you never told it to anyone else.
I gave Beskar the list of names to gain his attention, remember this was back when we all didn't know what side of the fence he was on. I gave you more because you demanded more, I didn't specifically know you'd share it, but I figured you were in contact with enough players for you to at least mention it or divulge parts of it. Anyone else, yes I briefly PMed Niklas, but he wasn't particularly forth-coming.
Went past 1000 posts and didn't even notice, haha.
Psychonaut's PMs. All times US EDT:
April 21 11:13
My ability is:
Force Sight (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_Sight)
Each night I am able to see what happens over the ship. I do not get the complete picture, I get a jumble of what is either useless fluff, role names, alignments/susceptibility, minor occurrences and possibly major occurrences. Essentially, a very inaccurate and incomplete investigation.
Some of my odd behaviour is a result of this, trying to piece together pieces of information that may or may not make sense, or may or may not be useful. Like my insistence of Beskar being neutral was due to my results from Night 2, they suggested Dooku struggling with a internal conflict, so I read this to be that he was neither Sith nor Jedi, which I now realise was probably incorrect.
Of those in my list, yes, most are from in thread, however, the following names have appeared in my results:
Daye Azur-Jamin - Captain Blackadder
Yoda - Chaotix
Dooku - Beskar
Koffi Arana - Winston Hughes
Qui-Gon Jinn
Palpatine - my results suggest he has Force Cloak (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_cloak), so I know he exists, but my own or any other investigative abilities may not correctly identify him.
Luke Skywalker
Sifo Dyas
Atris
Corran Horn
Micah Giiett
Trying to match people with their roles is difficult, because it isn't explicit. For example, I received in my Night 1 results a suggestion that Blackadder as one of three Jedi, potentially Luke Skywalker, when in fact I had misinterpreted the results and he was in fact Daye Azur-Jamin.
I wish I could share the result PMs as many eyes would make light work, but I specifically cannot as my ability is, in the canon, a mental ability and also doing so is not particularly sportsmanlike (being able to transmit exact thoughts, yes perhaps some Jedi can, but not perception).
The thing that sticks RIGHT out given Psychonaut's latest comments is his suggestion that his weird accusation of Beskar as neutral came from his investigation results -- the results he now says were made up out of whole cloth.
April 21 12:05
It's late here and I really need sleep. I need to be more awake to give you a proper response, so if you don't mind I'll do so in the morning.
Also:
Finally, you seem to be missing a name. Tahiri Veila was in Niklas' "not in write-ups/not obvious" category, which should mean you should not have that name available to you unless it turned up in your results. Given the omission, please tell me as much as you can about how and what you know about that role, along with the two mentioned above.
Clerical error on my part, it's at the bottom of my notes and upon copying and pasting I missed it.
April 22 19:44
Psst. You out there?
I have an Customer Behaviour exam today. So this is not really in the front of my mind.
April 23 9:31
Can you tell me roughly what your results were on the dead players minus Yoda and Dooku, and on what night they turned up in your results? (That is, Captain Blackadder and Winston Hughes.) Also, assuming that Palpatine is the force killer, there should still be one other "jedi" active every single night out killing people. Were any of the people on your list plausibly connected to that?
Night 1:
Captain Blackadder (Daye Azur-Jamin) - reference to lack of formal training, (followed up by Blackadder himself posting in thread about how he taught himself), I then contacted him to see if he was Luke Skywalker or Kyle Katarn, he replied saying he was neither. I drew the conclusion.
Possible Dooku reference, implications about him as an instructor at the Jedi Temple.
Luke Skywalker - seems to have found a holocron.
Fluff about holocrons.
Night 2:
Chaotix (Yoda) - witnessed him walking down a hallway, I couldn't make out what he was doing, his appearance is mentioned.
Beskar (Dooku) - struggles with internal conflicts, anger, which I took to mean he was neutral/recruitable. Probably look back on it, it was another reference to his time before he joined the dark side.
Corran Horn - probable reference to purity.
Night 3:
Qui-Gon Jinn - seems if I find him my "understanding" may improve.
Sifo Dyas - appears to be sleeping.
Yeseikhaan (Palpatine) - complete misinterpretation on my part, what appeared to be a cloaking, a hidden aspect to him was probably just a reference to him being Sith susceptible.
Yoda, jumble of semi-incoherent sentences, one stands out is a quote "Meditate on this, I will." followed by clear your mind of chaos.
Night 4:
Atris, fluff, fluff, fluff. I have no idea what is or is not relevant here.
Tahiri Veila, nothing much, the role name, an obscure reference.
Yoda again, this time his actions against Dooku.
Possible Anakin Skywalker reference, or a reference to the lightsaber Sith.
Night 5:
Winston Hughes (Koffi Arana) - it appears I essentially witnessed his death. The reference to his killer is strange, it could indicate Darth Wyyrlok.
Micah Giiett - again sleeping. Nothing significant.
Reference to force ghosts.
Night 6:
Githany - probably susceptible to the dark side.
Qui-Gon Jinn - I seem to be trying to reach out to him. His back is turned.
Reference to only two Sith.
Possible Thermal Mercury reference, planets come up somewhat readily.
There are some underlying themes, specifically eyes, and eye colour. There are some links that could relate to player names as well, but I may simply be misinterpreting it, I don't really want to speculate, at this stage. If anything Githany could be a cover role, but, she may just be a susceptible to the dark side.
I'll double check my notes to see if I've missed anything.
April 25, 6:57
OK, read this over, a couple of thoughts.
I'm still not 100% sure what to think about you. Just got killed off in Inishmore, and I'm not thinking straight. But I don't intend to push for you to be lynched today, and most likely by the time I'm able to fully participate again (weekends are always bad for me), it will have shaken out one way or the other. I may have more questions in a bit, though; I'm too brain-fried to remember what I had wanted to ask.
As for the content of what you said:
You obviously want to find Qui-Gon Jinn. Assuming for the moment you are town, don't even ask me how you should best go about doing that.
I'm Tahiri Veila. If you tell me what the "obscure reference" was, it's possible I might be able to shed some light on what some of the stuff you're getting refers to -- I have a theory.
Well I assume you are a Jedi Knight, and it could be that you are Sith susceptible or you have an ability/feature that is split/has different aspects.
Also, last night the name Lar Le'Ung appeared, appears to be a sleeping knight.
April 25, 12:13
I'm not sure if that fits my theory or not -- I thought maybe you were getting stuff out of the background information that Sigurd provided, but what you've said is too vague to tell.
How do you plan to contact Qui-Gon Jinn? As of right now it would seem you're under too much suspicion for him to really want to. What do he/you stand to gain from it?
Plausible, I would say they could be somewhat related.
Hopefully a hint will pop up. If not, it doesn't matter too much. The main issue is getting the correct lynches. And I get the feeling that Greyblades is just that, the correct lynch.
April 27, 8:13
What made you think he was a knight specifically?
Nothing really too specific. I saw a sleeping Jedi, then looked up the name and assumed he'd be at least a knight. Seems his scummy behaviour wasn't because he was Sith though.
Nothing last night, other than the holocron:
It gives you knowledge about what it calls the force. Before it finishes, you have learned new abilities.
By harnessing this force you feel you can do the following:
1. Enhance your muscles with the force to move faster (Force Speed) - defensive ability
2. Draw a small portion of the force to you and release it like a flash (Force Blinding) – defensive ability
3. By the force you can regenerate tissue and energy in living beings (Force Healing)
As an upgrade to all Jedi Masters – you can now use two force abilities on the same person, whether it is yourself, against one other or against attackers.
Night actions:
You can elect to do one the following:
Follow a player. If that player is attacked you rush in and heal her/him.
I hope this finally removes any remaining notions that you may have that I could be a Sith. Simply, would a Sith have a healing/protection ability?
(I responded that this meant nothing to me -- besides the vig thing, I see no reason the Sith would be excluded from holocron visits nor that they would never get random abilities of lesser use to them as well as those of high value. Certainly happens to the rest of us that way.)
May 3, 00:16
He did take a defensive ability. Force Blinding. He confirmed it earlier, in thread. Why is he backing out of it now?
You're under attack? Maybe I shouldn't only protect Diamondeye, he's probably strong enough to protect himself, at least for a while. And at least then there's a chance I can save someone.
Two things regarding this last one, which I hadn't mentioned before. This was when I still suspected Diamondeye. I had learned I was under attack, having actually visited the holocron twice by then and come up with two defensive options. Diamondeye commented to me in private, after saying otherwise in the thread, that he had actually gotten no ability from Psychonaut's investigation. So Psychonaut here is contradicting him. Still not sure what's going on with this one or whether it means anything. Diamondeye might wish to comment.
The other thing is that Psychonaut's protective ability does present another "why is Diamondeye still alive" explanation, though only I think if Psychonaut is mafia (he never talked about this in public, did he?): he's supposed to be protecting DE. I'd managed to forget about it in all the confusion, but Psychonaut would not have.
It doesn't explain why DE was never roleblocked before now.
Psycho, which information did you expect to influence who was killed, and why did you expect it to work?
Edit: also explain the self-serving Beskar thing (and why you questioned Beskar in that way in the absence of any such information); the smear and retraction against Palpatine; and the addition of "i was really confused how this worked, see, so obviously it's the truth" information like that given about Captain Blackadder.
Edit 2, Electric Boogaloo: is Force Cloak a real ability?
The thing that sticks RIGHT out given Psychonaut's latest comments is his suggestion that his weird accusation of Beskar as neutral came from his investigation results -- the results he now says were made up out of whole cloth.
Simple.
https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/CountDooku.png
Notice the yellow, completely different to the gold everyone else has. That made me think he was neutral.
It doesn't explain why DE was never roleblocked before now.
I see two explanations, either like the rest of us the Sith visit the holocron and get abilities or they get new abilities as they kill. Both seem feasible in my mind.
Psycho, which information did you expect to influence who was killed, and why did you expect it to work?
:shrug:
Edit: also explain the self-serving Beskar thing (and why you questioned Beskar in that way in the absence of any such information); the smear and retraction against Palpatine; and the addition of "i was really confused how this worked, see, so obviously it's the truth" information like that given about Captain Blackadder.
What Beskar thing, please explain what you mean?
Palpatine was a guess, I assumed, like any sane person would, that that's a bang on Sith. Then when nothing came from his lynch I realised my mistake and figured out why he and several other Sith sounding roles were in the game, to prevent townie networks forming. Someone with the role Palpatine, Anakin or Githany isn't really going to be parading that around everywhere, as john indicated last round. Also I made up that I couldn't identify who it was with the phoney force cloak thing because a) I thought if you knew who it was perhaps you'd accidentally betray something and b) you'd press for his identity when I had no possible way of picking him out of a line up.
Info about Blackadder. He posted in thread that he trained himself. It doesn't take a genius to google "Self Taught Jedi" and get one of three options: Luke, Kyle Katarn and the other guy Daye Azur-Jamin.
The Beskar thing: one of the bases for my accusation against you was how nonsensical (and obviously mafia-serving) that "Beskar is neutral" thing came across. You provided an explanation for it as part of your investigations (and please note you didn't give these to me until *after* Beskar was dead), which means they weren't designed exclusively as bait for the mafia (if they were at all -- still struggling with that one), whatever you say. They were also designed to get me off your back.
I am heading out now and will not be back before the phase is over. My vote will not be moving again. I would like to emphasize that a close vote is not a good idea, because Niklas has shown up nearly every single round with a last-minute vote. He could easily save his scumbuddy, whoever that is, if we do not make a decision here. Please swing the vote one way or another.
Psychonaut, if you have not voted already, I highly recommend that you do so now.
Renata, yes, some of it was to get you of my back. Of course. Some of it was to see if you'd give away anything or contest anything. But the whole Beskar was neutral thing was all down to that colour of the image, nothing more, nothing less.
And yes a tie would be the worst possible happening. Vote: Centurion1
Alright... I am heading out to see a film with an old class mate. Wifey stays home to work on her Masters thesis.
She is not liking me tasking off like that and has given me snide remarks all evening :laugh4: .
I will be able to close the vote, but I wont be around to make a full writeup.
If someone would be kind enough to provide a tally in exactly 1 hour, that would be grand.
:bow:
Oh, and I am going to see the Clash of the Titans in 3D.
Vote: Centurion
All this crap about Psychonaut being guilty is crap.
Oh, Psycho, those role profiles, like the one you gave for Dooku-
They come directly from Wookiepedia. They've got no bearing on the actual roles in this game.
atheotes
05-07-2010, 21:32
i was going to change it anyway...
unvote; Vote: Centurion
I think this is the right move, at the end of the day. Good luck town.
Oh, and I am going to see the Clash of the Titans in 3D.
Poor you. :no:
It has zero story and the special effects weren't that great either.
Poor you. :no:
It has zero story and the special effects weren't that great either.
It has an Aussie guy in sandals though, that makes it semi-decent.
Askthepizzaguy
05-07-2010, 21:56
Hmm... this checks out. I tested, and all 5 of those pictures do indeed show up with the simple substitute method I used. That makes perfect sense.
Unvote; Vote: Centurion1
This is why lying is bad, even if you're a townie.
I was about to say...
After hearing from Chaotix how wrong I am, and how much I'm going to waste townie abilities tonight, I was about to protest.
And yeah, all that lying just made me go OFF on Psychonaut, and now, I'm a worse suspect than before, thanks much. Great plan, awesome job. Less lying and I maybe wouldn't have taken the bait.
You do realize that stuff is more likely to fool townies than it is likely to fool the Sith? I spent how many hours prosecuting Psychonaut? Give me a break.
Yaropolk
05-07-2010, 22:07
It has an Aussie guy in sandals though, that makes it semi-decent.
Yes, Perseus the Greek son of a greek god is Aussie =/ Just like the space - Aussie he played in Avatar.
Sasaki Kojiro
05-07-2010, 22:24
I will be able to close the vote, but I wont be around to make a full writeup.
Can you give the flip without doing a whole writeup? So that people can plan their night actions...
Oh, and I am going to see the Clash of the Titans in 3D.
It was awesome, wish I'd seen it in 3d. Ignore the amateur critics :tongue3:
Phew. All done with catch-up.
After we see the write-up, I'll lay out our remaining suspects for tomorrow. There are several players that I know are almost certainly innocent, and one of them who is definitely innocent unless converted very recently.
Askthepizzaguy
05-07-2010, 22:39
Now I am forced to give my defense.... once again.
First of all, I can never be the original Sith lord. One look at round two, and the round where I toss my body in front of Chaotix's when you guys were going to lynch him should tell you.
On round two, I was disgusted at being wagoned simply because I've done networks in the past, and wouldn't cooperate when people told me to start doing this and stop doing this. I unsubscribed and I was done. The only reason I even came back was because Beskar and others started talking to me and encouraged me to come back. That's when that Beskar group was formed, and Niklas infiltrated it. It was Csargo, actually, now that I think back on it.... he was trying to get me to switch votes onto him, because he said he had lynch immunity. I initially refused.
Later, a mass chat was organized and to my credit, it wasn't ME who invited Niklas to the party. Csargo tried again to spare me and I said no.
ugh/unreadable MSN logs. (Highlighted: Name of person who is speaking, until that changes)
Interesting dialogue highlighted.
4/15/2010 4:55:32 PM Ichigo askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) ATPG
4/15/2010 4:55:36 PM askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Ichigo Yes
4/15/2010 4:55:39 PM Ichigo askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) vote for me
4/15/2010 4:55:42 PM Ichigo askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) do it
4/15/2010 4:55:46 PM askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Ichigo in what game?
4/15/2010 4:55:51 PM Ichigo askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Star Wars
4/15/2010 4:55:57 PM askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Ichigo I'm not playing that game anymore
4/15/2010 4:56:28 PM Ichigo askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Sasaki?
4/15/2010 4:56:39 PM askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Ichigo No, Sasaki is scum. The others are silly.
4/15/2010 4:58:09 PM askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Ichigo I haven't even kept up on that thread, I unsubscribed
4/15/2010 4:58:16 PM askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Ichigo Why did you want me to vote for you anyway?
4/15/2010 4:58:24 PM Ichigo askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) To save you
4/15/2010 4:58:36 PM Ichigo askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) From being lynched
4/15/2010 4:58:55 PM askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Ichigo I am not really worth saving.
4/15/2010 4:59:03 PM askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Ichigo I'm just a jedi with no abilities
4/15/2010 4:59:10 PM askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Ichigo and kinda disenchanted with the game
4/15/2010 4:59:35 PM Ichigo askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Aw
New window opens up: Beskar contacts me. This is a big chat.
4/15/2010 4:59:38 PM Beskar Renata @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Hey Pizza
4/15/2010 4:59:45 PM askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Renata @ CFC, Beskar, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, Ichigo err?
4/15/2010 4:59:52 PM askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Renata @ CFC, Beskar, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, Ichigo whats all this then
4/15/2010 4:59:54 PM Beskar Renata @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) We are in a big chat.
4/15/2010 4:59:55 PM Ichigo Renata @ CFC, Beskar, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Don't listen to them they're crazy
4/15/2010 5:00:06 PM Beskar Renata @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Renata, Niklas, Csargo, Secura and myself
4/15/2010 5:00:09 PM askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Renata @ CFC, Beskar, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, Ichigo Oh.
4/15/2010 5:00:11 PM Beskar Renata @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) and now you, Pizza.
4/15/2010 5:00:12 PM askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Renata @ CFC, Beskar, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, Ichigo What about?
4/15/2010 5:00:25 PM Beskar Renata @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Org family gathering.
4/15/2010 5:00:42 PM Beskar Renata @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Renata says she is going to kill GH tonight and frame it on me.
4/15/2010 5:01:01 PM Beskar Renata @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) I said she can do it, and she gets a medal for it too
4/15/2010 5:01:09 PM askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Renata @ CFC, Beskar, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, Ichigo Lol
4/15/2010 5:01:16 PM Ichigo Renata @ CFC, Beskar, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) I want to get thrown out of the airlock
4/15/2010 5:01:19 PM askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Renata @ CFC, Beskar, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, Ichigo she can kill GH in the Star Wars game?
4/15/2010 5:01:30 PM Niklas @ CFC Renata @ CFC, Beskar, Secura, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Csargo, why?
4/15/2010 5:01:35 PM Secura Renata @ CFC, Beskar, Niklas @ CFC, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Isn't GeneralHandkerchief a woman?
4/15/2010 5:01:47 PM Secura Renata @ CFC, Beskar, Niklas @ CFC, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) He kept talking about his 'assets' and 'giggling mischievously'
4/15/2010 5:01:49 PM Niklas @ CFC Renata @ CFC, Beskar, Secura, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) and Beskar, you still haven't answered my question :P
4/15/2010 5:01:52 PM Ichigo Renata @ CFC, Beskar, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Because
4/15/2010 5:01:54 PM Secura Renata @ CFC, Beskar, Niklas @ CFC, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) I think his character is a Twi'lek
4/15/2010 5:02:00 PM Niklas @ CFC Renata @ CFC, Beskar, Secura, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Secura, that would be Andres
4/15/2010 5:02:03 PM Beskar Renata @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) That is Andres.
4/15/2010 5:02:05 PM Secura Renata @ CFC, Beskar, Niklas @ CFC, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Oh, Andres, my bad
4/15/2010 5:02:11 PM Beskar Renata @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Also Niklas, Renata already said.
4/15/2010 5:02:12 PM Secura Renata @ CFC, Beskar, Niklas @ CFC, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) All those green names and hooded robes
4/15/2010 5:02:16 PM Ichigo Renata @ CFC, Beskar, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Who doesn't want to float around in space?
4/15/2010 5:02:16 PM Secura Renata @ CFC, Beskar, Niklas @ CFC, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) I get confused ¬_¬
4/15/2010 5:02:20 PM Secura Renata @ CFC, Beskar, Niklas @ CFC, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Me!
4/15/2010 5:02:35 PM Secura Renata @ CFC, Beskar, Niklas @ CFC, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) I don't want to die in the cold vacuum :(
4/15/2010 5:02:41 PM Beskar Renata @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) That reminds me, you might be floating around soon. But I heard you are lynch immune too, Csargo :-O
4/15/2010 5:02:47 PM askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Renata @ CFC, Beskar, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, Ichigo Ichigo, you say you want to die
4/15/2010 5:02:51 PM askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Renata @ CFC, Beskar, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, Ichigo no powers, then?
4/15/2010 5:03:05 PM Ichigo Renata @ CFC, Beskar, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Who said anything about dieing?
4/15/2010 5:03:17 PM Ichigo Renata @ CFC, Beskar, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) I want to float around out there
4/15/2010 5:03:32 PM Ichigo Renata @ CFC, Beskar, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) and I was trying to save you from being bandwagoned
4/15/2010 5:04:27 PM Ichigo Renata @ CFC, Beskar, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) I thought I already told you that Beskar?
4/15/2010 5:04:45 PM Beskar Renata @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Oh, you did?
4/15/2010 5:04:48 PM Beskar Renata @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Thanks Csargo
4/15/2010 5:05:19 PM Beskar Renata @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) But if they work out you are lynch immune too.. things will get...
4/15/2010 5:05:19 PM Niklas @ CFC Renata @ CFC, Beskar, Secura, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) I think he meant ATPG though
4/15/2010 5:05:29 PM Beskar Renata @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) oh... :(
4/15/2010 5:05:39 PM Beskar Renata @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) :'(
4/15/2010 5:05:41 PM Niklas @ CFC Renata @ CFC, Beskar, Secura, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) and you still haven't answered me
4/15/2010 5:05:44 PM Beskar Renata @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) I did
4/15/2010 5:06:01 PM Beskar Renata @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) I said Renata already spoke. I self-protected myself as I thought I was going to get night attacked.
4/15/2010 5:06:13 PM Niklas @ CFC Renata @ CFC, Beskar, Secura, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) ah, that was Secura that said that
4/15/2010 5:06:18 PM Beskar Renata @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) ohhh
4/15/2010 5:06:26 PM Beskar Renata @ CFC, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Got confused.
4/15/2010 5:06:32 PM Secura Renata @ CFC, Beskar, Niklas @ CFC, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) :|
4/15/2010 5:06:45 PM Niklas @ CFC Renata @ CFC, Beskar, Secura, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) seems you two have something in common then :D
4/15/2010 5:06:53 PM askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Renata @ CFC, Beskar, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, Ichigo I am confused by this mass chat
4/15/2010 5:06:57 PM askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Renata @ CFC, Beskar, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, Ichigo I'm not following it well
4/15/2010 5:07:05 PM Renata @ CFC Beskar, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) me too, actually
4/15/2010 5:07:12 PM Renata @ CFC Beskar, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) i think beskar is just bored
4/15/2010 5:07:17 PM Niklas @ CFC Renata @ CFC, Beskar, Secura, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) so is there actually some initiative here to try to save ATPG, or what?
4/15/2010 5:07:37 PM Renata @ CFC Beskar, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) string 'im up
4/15/2010 5:07:38 PM Renata @ CFC Beskar, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) :p
4/15/2010 5:08:01 PM Renata @ CFC Beskar, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) more seriously, not that i know of
4/15/2010 5:08:05 PM Renata @ CFC Beskar, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) is there, beskar?
4/15/2010 5:08:22 PM Niklas @ CFC Renata @ CFC, Beskar, Secura, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) well, csargo would be a better direction for that query methinks
4/15/2010 5:08:26 PM askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Renata @ CFC, Beskar, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, Ichigo Lynch me, I honestly don't care.
4/15/2010 5:08:33 PM Niklas @ CFC Renata @ CFC, Beskar, Secura, Ichigo, askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) I ask due to ATPG's latest post
4/15/2010 5:08:34 PM askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Renata @ CFC, Beskar, Niklas @ CFC, Secura, Ichigo It would give me an easy out this game.
End of chat log, (not really the end, the rest isn't that interesting) let's not clutter up too much, spoiler again:
Doesn't prove much except that I was willing to die and didn't understand or believe Ichigo when he said he could take the lynch for me and survive. I was against the idea. The entire initiative to spare me came from Beskar and the others. I didn't ask for it or even really want it.
Go back and check that round where I offer my life for Chaotix's.... I did not have anti-lynch powers back then. If I did, my usual tactic would have been to claim such, after we saw Csargo and Beskar claim such, and use it to "prove" myself. I only just recently got such powers. I nearly died once again, this time trying to spare Yoda which some people were keen on revealing. Unfortunately this game has been wonderous and blunderous. I don't feel quite as bad for my own mistakes when I look at just how poorly we all have done on certain rounds.
This latest push on Psychonaut: Wasn't my idea. Came from Renata and YLC. After listening to their case over the course of several rounds, and all those unanswered questions needed to be answered, and Centurion1 was actually fighting hard for his life... probably harder than I would have if I were the final Sith, I decided to get the answers they sought. Centurion1 reveals he's got anti-lynch powers, and Psychonaut doesn't. I see that it seems strategically superior to knock off Psychonaut first, then block/investigate/et al Centurion1. I put my butt on the line defending either the worst townie ever or the most obvious Sith ever, hoping that the pressure will catch Psychonaut in a lie.
_______
But what was the end result? All of those questions were unanswered because it was one big fat lie right after the other. He falsely claimed to have this power, he falsely claimed to have that power, and the entire thing was one big set-up, on the surface trying to get someone to murder Psychonaut who had no really useful abilities it seemed. Well I bought it, hook line and sinker. And believe you me, if I thought Psychonaut was a pro-town role totally unlikely to get lynched, he'd have been dead a LONG time ago, were I a Sith. You fooled me only too well.
You want to know why I consider Psychonaut dangerous? He's one of the few players I know of who would use those Sasaki-level tactics, which really do work to fool gullible people. I might come up with schemes like those but I fall for them too. I look at the actions of the current Sith, and I don't see incompetence. I see cool, calculating brilliance. That is why I consider Psychonaut to be more likely to be Sith than Centurion1, who has played either the most brilliant pity play I've ever seen, or the worst lurker scum performance of the past year. I didn't consider Cent to be that bad a player, then add that in with all of Psychonaut's lies and dead townie suspicions and boom, nearly gets Psycho lynched. I feel quite used and dirty now, thanks. :beam:
So Psychonaut is clean huh? My mistake. But SURELY you could see why I was mistaken. Using your powers on me tonight is an equally large mistake. Chaotix knows why, but I am not sure he believes me. You consider my performance this game some brilliant self-sacrificing act if I were a Sith Lord, or perhaps a Sith recruit who obviously turned scum at one point and has been behaving erratically ever since? Look at Mafia IX. I was bandwagony and defensive all game until I felt analysis might be more accurate, the late game. Then I went off on Methos and Sasaki, Methos was lynched and was innocent. Sudden switch in behavior in the endgame.... it's me getting serious and trying to pressure the mafia until they crack, or analyze, guess correctly, form a case, and wagon someone to death. Standard procedure. That's the switch in behavior you see.
And by the way, if I were the Sith recruit, and Centurion1 turned out not to be the Sith lord, you really should be checking Subotan and/or pevergreen. Those two are the next most likely to be the Sith lord. Don't think it is Split. if it were, I would have been recruited immediately. between Centurion1 and Subotan and pevergreen and Split, I believe Subotan or pever would try to recruit Diana even though I was revealed to be susceptible.
There's my defense.
Now we see if Centurion1 was the Sith, or if he wasn't lying about his anti-lynch powers. I hope for our sake he was full of it.
Sasaki Kojiro
05-07-2010, 22:44
I would look somewhere other than pizza personally.
Yeah, if he manages to survive another round, I will be rather annoyed.
ATPG, I want to believe you are not Sith, but any time between now and the time Niklas died you could have been recruited. The same is, of course, true for anyone else who is susceptible. But I can't clear you just because you make massive defenses of yourself with very big words, because you do the same thing when you are mafia.
The most I can say in public is that you are not the only suspect of mine right now.
Askthepizzaguy
05-07-2010, 22:55
Yeah, if he manages to survive another round, I will be rather annoyed.
ATPG, I want to believe you are not Sith, but any time between now and the time Niklas died you could have been recruited. The same is, of course, true for anyone else who is susceptible. But I can't clear you just because you make massive defenses of yourself with very big words, because you do the same thing when you are mafia.
The most I can say in public is that you are not the only suspect of mine right now.
That's fair enough.
What I am saying though is that for the past what, 5 rounds or so, almost every round I said: Block me, investigate me. Even said you could drain my anti-lynch power or my anti-scan, and told you of both powers immediately after I got them.
If I was recruited right after Niklas, that does not add up.
Only reason I am saying don't waste your time on me tonight is because you've ignored my request for too long and now there's no time. You must be more accurate with your powers.
In fact, blocking/scanning those others means if stuff keeps happening it can only be me anyway. I'm not even getting out of anything if you leave me unmolested tonight.
Centurion1
05-07-2010, 22:56
This terrible town play
Askthepizzaguy
05-07-2010, 23:06
This terrible town play
Forgive us, we've learned from the master. :wink:
I argued your innocence way harder than you did, so shush.
Yeah, if he manages to survive another round, I will be rather annoyed.
Agreed, I call BS on the RNG if it seriously gave him back his lynch immunity. That's ridiculous.
Centurion1
05-07-2010, 23:49
Forgive us, we've learned from the master.
I argued your innocence way harder than you did, so shush.
touche :bow:
and chaotix get ready to call alot of bull cause guess what i told the truth!!!!
Yeah, I'm not impressed by Psychonaut's strategy if he's town. Considering half the reason I've been so focused on him the entire game is that HIS ABILITY CLAIM MADE NO SENSE. Congrats, Psycho, you managed to distract one of the more analytical townies into (edit: there was supposed to be a word here. I forget what).
Askthepizzaguy
05-07-2010, 23:58
and chaotix get ready to call alot of bull cause guess what i told the truth!!!!
https://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb225/askthepizzaguy/EPYC/ds_12114_headline_b_v6.jpg
Less "I told you so" and more "Sith lord is probably this guy: ___________"
Then again you claim you haven't been following this excellent game and you're not worthy and blah blah blah, then you're not paying attention enough to contribute positively. Probably should have let yourself get WOG'ed earlier.
Askthepizzaguy
05-07-2010, 23:59
Yeah, I'm not impressed by Psychonaut's strategy if he's town. Considering half the reason I've been so focused on him the entire game is that HIS ABILITY CLAIM MADE NO SENSE. Congrats, Psycho, you managed to distract one of the more analytical townies into.
Diana was about to type basically the exact same thing, but with more anger, and I talked her out of it.
Diana Abnoba
05-08-2010, 00:00
@ Renata
I totally agree!! I'm so frustrated now, I could spit (and being a nurse this is so very hard for me to do).
Askthepizzaguy
05-08-2010, 00:12
@Tincow-
Some day you're gonna be wrong, I just hope I'm there to see it.
Scoreboard versus Tincow to date:
Tincow: at least 3
Pizzaguy: Zero
Some day you're gonna be wrong, I just hope I'm there to see it.
I'm wrong all the time. I've launched huge cases against multiple townies in this game alone. Besides, the day's not over until Sigurd posts the write-up.
Askthepizzaguy
05-08-2010, 00:28
I'm wrong all the time. I've launched huge cases against multiple townies in this game alone. Besides, the day's not over until Sigurd posts the write-up.
Yeah but my record in debates with you is totally lopsided. Let's see... Chicago Soiree... Netherworld II... This game, just off the top of my head. Basically every game we've been in together. I've never won an argument, I don't think.
Diana Abnoba
05-08-2010, 00:35
Hey don't worry about that, you guys are trying, and I for one am glad you are.
I am back!!
The film -> ...
Where is the tally? I guess I'll have to do one myself.
Tried to do more than cut off the votes, but the cinema apparently had some mobile scrambler because the connection suddenly died and I couldn't get a decent signal during the rest of the film. I wish I'd chosen Iron Man II in stead.
I will be back...
Yeah but my record in debates with you is totally lopsided. Let's see... Chicago Soiree... Netherworld II... This game, just off the top of my head. Basically every game we've been in together. I've never won an argument, I don't think.
Well, winning an argument is only good if the person who wins is right. It's actively bad if, in the process of winning, you hurt your own team.
Round 14
Night
Qui Gon Jinn rushed into the voting in session. He was a bit late and the Jedi crew seemed nervous with anticipation. “Give me the tally!!” the Knight who had kept the tally handed it nervously over to Qui-Gon. “What, Mas Amedda again? Are you sure now? The Knight nodded. “Very well Mas, get yourself down here.” The hulking frame of Mas came yet again down to where Qui-Gon stood. “You know the drill by now. Let’s get this done already.” They all marched out and towards the hangar area. Mas did as he had done yesterday and stepped out into space. His body was floating as it did yesterday and he yet again smiled and waved back at them from outside. When he was brought into the warmth of the Star Destroyer, he jumped up and down.”It’s a bit nippy out there.” Qui-Gon shook his head in disbelief. “You gotta do better than this people. Now get back to work!!”
Night time ends 23:00 GMT+1 (in about 21 hours) orders in by 22:00 GMT+1 (20 hours)
Tally:
Centurion1: 8 (ATPG, atheotes, Chaotix, Diamondeye, pever, Psycho, Subotan, TinCow)
Psychonaut: 2 (Cent1, split)
Not voting: 1 (Niklas)
Lynched:
a completely innocent name
TheFlax
Belisarius II
Yaseikhaan
Thermal Mercury
Greyblades
Niklas
White_eyes:D
autolycus
Killed:
Beefy187
Husar
Captain Blackadder
Khazaar
Csargo
Ibn-Khaldun
Methos
Andres
Beskar
Winston Hughes
Chaotix
Sasaki Kojiro
Joooray
Kagemusha
Secura
atheotes
GeneralHankerchief
Diana Abnoba
Yaropolk
Renata
YLC
Choxorn
johnhughthom
Force Ghost:
Chaotix
atheotes
Niklas
Alive:
Askthepizzaguy
Centurion1
Diamondeye
pevergreen
Psychonaut
splitpersonality
Subotan
TinCow
Askthepizzaguy
05-08-2010, 01:11
In another time and place, this could be funny.
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="https://www.youtube.com/v/znv_sUPaKfE&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="https://www.youtube.com/v/znv_sUPaKfE&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>
Splitpersonality
05-08-2010, 01:26
I feel like smashing my face through a window.
Askthepizzaguy
05-08-2010, 01:42
If Centurion1 is mafia, this is probably the most hilarious turn of events for him ever.
I don't think so, fellas. We tried twice. The game seems like it would be unfair if so. And that theory about me being his partner doesn't hold water either, because you'd have to drain me, too. Two sith with anti-lynch alive this late in the game, and one of them gets a second anti-lynch? Don't think so.
If you guys are REALLY sure on Psychonaut then it would seem Subotan and pever need to be looked at.
edit:
But that's not going to happen. I know what's going to happen. I can feel a disturbance in the force.
JAR JAR: Ooh, maxibig da Force. Well dat smells stinkowiff.
https://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb225/askthepizzaguy/EPYC/Jar-Jar-Binks.jpg
No, don't even avert your eyes. We deserve the shame of being forced to look at it.
BULLL!!!
Excuse me while I go find the RNG Sigurd was using, and destroy it.
Askthepizzaguy
05-08-2010, 01:51
I just noticed that Jar-Jar has amber eyes... :laugh4:
Sasaki Kojiro
05-08-2010, 01:52
I feel like smashing my face through a window.
^^lurking scum pretending to be annoyed
Askthepizzaguy
05-08-2010, 02:01
^^lurking scum pretending to be annoyed
Our bro-mance is over forever if he failed to recruit me as Sith.
Splitpersonality
05-08-2010, 02:18
^^lurking scum pretending to be annoyed
I am annoyed, this was some tense :daisy: going on and it ends up how, exactly how we said it would, a lynch immune Centurion.
Kagemusha
05-08-2010, 02:20
Well someone do a favor to all of us and waist Centurion.
Centurion1
05-08-2010, 02:26
I TOLD YOU SO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I really dont want to say it.....I really really dont want to Im going to have to say itDo i have to say it
Askthepizzaguy
05-08-2010, 03:04
I would love to sit in on the Chaotix-atheotes-Tincow-whoever discussion that is going on right now. However, I will settle for just offering my two cents in private if I am invited to do so.
Not cool. Really not cool.
As we've seen, this is probably RNG, not deliberate. Centurion is still a supect, but we've gotta move on to bigger ones. If Psychonaut is mafia, then I will eat split's hat. And then I will officially declare myself the worst pro-town player in existence, something I've wanted to do since Netherworld II.
But right now, I'm fairly certain he's innocent.
Askthepizzaguy
05-08-2010, 05:58
Not cool. Really not cool.
As we've seen, this is probably RNG, not deliberate. Centurion is still a supect, but we've gotta move on to bigger ones. If Psychonaut is mafia, then I will eat split's hat. And then I will officially declare myself the worst pro-town player in existence, something I've wanted to do since Netherworld II.
But right now, I'm fairly certain he's innocent.
No, I agree, if Psychonaut was mafia he's played a heck of a game. After trying that hard to kill him and failing, I don't want to repeat the exercise.
Plus most of the case against him can be dismissed pretty easily (if I had all the facts....) :sad:
Diana Abnoba
05-08-2010, 06:20
Well, his lynch immune should be used up again. If he gets it back again tonight, I will come back from the dead and kill him myself, even if it means, I'll be closer to turning, to the dark side. It would be worth it!! :smash: :laugh4:
Centurion1
05-08-2010, 14:42
seriously though im just a townie investigat eme i dont care.
seriously though im just the luckiest guy in the history of mafia investigat eme i dont care.
Fixed.
If Centurion1 is mafia, this is probably the most hilarious turn of events for him ever.
I don't think so, fellas. We tried twice. The game seems like it would be unfair if so. And that theory about me being his partner doesn't hold water either, because you'd have to drain me, too. Two sith with anti-lynch alive this late in the game, and one of them gets a second anti-lynch? Don't think so.
I don't see how him truthfully claiming that he had Force Breath a second time absolves him of guilt. Two Sith with anti-lynch isn't unbalanced when either abilities are distributed through a lotto, or if we had lynched them earlier.
If you guys are REALLY sure on Psychonaut then it would seem Subotan and pever need to be looked at.
So pever hasn't been investigated? (!!!)
Diana Abnoba
05-08-2010, 18:33
Everyone by now should have been investigated and or blocked. It would have been a good way to find any changes in the write ups, thus helping to find the Sith.
Impossible -- only one investigator/blocker, and those investigated/blocked have been dropping like flies. And that's assuming the investigations and blocks even always are effective, which they may well not be. (We KNOW the investigations aren't always.)
Sasaki Kojiro
05-08-2010, 20:18
Split should probably be lynched.
Split should probably be lynched.
split is a replacement player. At worst, he's a recruit, not one of the two original Sith.
It is pevergreen, as I said earlier.
Centurion1
05-08-2010, 21:53
All subo does is go centurion is scum Lynch him
That's because all the signs I've seen point to you being Sith. More so than Psychonaut, whose case I can't really see, and I'm also concerned about pever (But no-one has built a case against him yet).
That's because pever hasn't really done anything but spam.
Round 14
Day
Qui-Gon was hurrying towards a particular area of the quarters when he met someone. Qui-Gon just marched right past this person who apparently wanted to talk to him. Qui-Gon had only walked a few steps past this individual when a thought struck him. Déjà vu… This had happened before, recently. Qui-Gon spun around ready to withstand attack, but he was too late. The person he had passed had already a hand in the air and was making a gesture as Qui Gon turned. Blackness came like someone turning off the light and Qui Gon slumped onto the hallway floor.
Belth Allusis was also out and about heading to another particular location in the living quarters.
His step was quick and he was not prepared meeting a dark and cloaked person blocking his way. Belth had no time for this and put a protection barrier around him. The dark and cloaked being bored amber eyes into Belth’s brown with hatred. The cloaked being crouched like a predator and released a force torrent which did havoc in the hallway but floated around Belth’s protective barrier. Belth was yet again ready when the cloaked person mounted a second attack. By the force he lifted the cloaked person and threw him backwards down the hallway. The cloaked person hit the floor hard, but was on the feet as quick as a panther. The cloaked person saw the determined face of Belth as he marched down the hallway towards the location of the cloaked person, green lightsabre burning in his hand.
Belth saw the cloaked being turn and within moments the being had disappeared into the darkness and was gone.
Nomi Sunrider was heading towards her cabin when she met someone familiar. “What are you doing here?” The other person looked grim and determined and Nomi sensed danger. She put a protective barrier around her which was just in time as the other person with stretched out hands released a cascade of blue energy which danced on the protective barrier of Nomi.
She was ready for what came next. The other person ignited a green lightsabre and Nomi could sense that she wouldn’t be able to best this person. As the other person was about to attack, she released a bit of the force from her hand and a blinding flash erupted. The other person was caught in it and waved around unseeing. Nomi took the chance given her and escaped.
Sifo Dyas was tired and looked forward to a bunk where he could close his eyes and rest.
He was nearing his own cabin when he was met by someone blocking the hallway. It was a dark and sinister being with glowing amber eyes. Sifo Dyas got his blue lightsabre out and used the force to erect a small absorbing field in front of him. The dark being cackled: “Hehe… your puny tricks won’t save you Sifo.” Sifo suddenly felt the air from his lungs being emptied and a choking pressure sensation to his windpipe. Darkness soon overtook him and he slumped to the floor dead.
The meeting had again started without Qui Gon Jinn. Where was he this time was the consensus question of those at the meeting. Qui Gon soon appeared haggard like yesterday. He asked for a chair and just sat down heavily. He could barely speak and just waved the keep going sign. The voting session had thus started with one Jedi Knight short. He had been found earlier that morning and since there were no Padawans among them, there were no promotions.
voting ends at 23:00 GMT+1 Sunday 9th of May (22 hours from now)
Lynched:
a completely innocent name
TheFlax
Belisarius II
Yaseikhaan
Thermal Mercury
Greyblades
Niklas
White_eyes:D
autolycus
Killed:
Beefy187
Husar
Captain Blackadder
Khazaar
Csargo
Ibn-Khaldun
Methos
Andres
Beskar
Winston Hughes
Chaotix
Sasaki Kojiro
Joooray
Kagemusha
Secura
atheotes
GeneralHankerchief
Diana Abnoba
Yaropolk
Renata
YLC
Choxorn
johnhughthom
splitpersonality
Force Ghost:
Chaotix
atheotes
Niklas
Alive:
Askthepizzaguy
Centurion1
Diamondeye
pevergreen
Psychonaut
Subotan
TinCow
Askthepizzaguy
05-09-2010, 00:03
*throws head back and cackles victoriously*
A little music for everyone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sogKUx_q7ig
Edit: Oh wait.... that looks like a vigilante attempt with the green saber. And Beskar had force lightning as a Jedi, too. So that doesn't clear me.
But, this should be able to greatly narrow down who was doing what last night.
Centurion1
05-09-2010, 00:58
okkkkk so what just happened?
LOL. Too bad I'll be out all day tomorrow.
Centurion1
05-09-2010, 01:24
so diamond eye who did you investigate?
and who are the roleblockers again? and then who did you roleblock.
and it appears to be more than one sith left as in there is only one kill so who was roleblocked? theres one scum.
You're overdoing it Centurion.
Splitpersonality
05-09-2010, 01:57
Qui Gon sounds more and more suspicious as the days go on...
I believe ATPG killed me, but I cannot confirm this beyond speculation.
It was a bad idea on the mafia's part, I was never cleared and under some suspicion already...
Good luck town.
Diamondeye and TinCow have both been blocked/attacked by mafia, so they're both innocent. Anyhow, Centurion is no longer lynch immune, so lynch him for the love of god!
Also, who tried to vig-kill ATPG?
Askthepizzaguy
05-09-2010, 02:10
All of my efforts were directed to defense last night. If there were two Sith kill attempts, and someone also blocked Qui-gon, I think the math shows it couldn't have been me. Especially if the logic being used to clear Psychonaut holds up.
Also, I'd need to have my anti-lynch power drained first anyway. Or a vig kill where my defenses are down.
Also, who tried to vig-kill ATPG?
Well it seems clear from the game mechanics and the green lightsaber and the two other Sith kills, clear to me anyway, that it was indeed a vig kill and that the only one who could perform such an action would have to be a Master since Knights I don't think can learn that power.
It's a good thing that vig kill fails. It keeps me alive, proves I was engaged in defense with Force Barrier and Force Blinding, and also pretty much clears the vig killer. Who I believe would have been cleared already, if I am not mistaken. Also, the one using Force Lightning shouldn't have made any steps to the Dark side if they failed to kill me, which is also good.
Nice way around the anti-lynch, too. I approve.
Diana Abnoba
05-09-2010, 02:16
I believe Diamondeye was roleblocked Cent.
Diana Abnoba
05-09-2010, 02:24
Seems to me that only Cent.1, pever, and Subotan have not been fully cleared. I'm leaning more toward pever or Cent.1., but this could be our last chance to get this right. Need to have all info out in thread through Chaotix or Atheotes to help town with this lynch. We are down to the wire guys.
pevergreen
05-09-2010, 02:27
Should I be showing up in there sigurd?
Write up posted at 8:51
6:36:
You are under attack.
You can use one defensive ability as a Jedi Knight.
Ability1
Ability2
Pm me back with your choice within the hour. If not Random.org will make the choice for you
Sigurd
8:56:
It appears that your attacker somehow was hindered in attacking you. Your attacker never showed up.
Sigurd
Askthepizzaguy
05-09-2010, 02:35
probably should vig kill Cent if Subotan is lynched, or Subotan if Cent is lynched.
Diana Abnoba
05-09-2010, 02:41
This was last night pever? Can Sigurd confirm? If so, then I agree with ATPG lynch Cent. or Subotan, then vig kill the other tonight.
Never showed up? That's ... interesting. Everyone needs to claim their actions from last night.
Pizza, those abilities of yours are both active ones? Need to be set ahead of time?
Askthepizzaguy
05-09-2010, 03:04
Never showed up? That's ... interesting. Everyone needs to claim their actions from last night.
Pizza, those abilities of yours are both active ones? Need to be set ahead of time?
The force barrier is.
When I was attacked, I got to select from my defensive options. I think those are passive until they become active by being attacked. But the force barrier is definitely an active ability, like stealth is.
pevergreen
05-09-2010, 03:06
Yes this was the night just passed. Coming up on six hours since I got the first PM.
Only been awake for one hour.
A pro-town vigilante tried to kill ATPG, and I know who it was. Don't worry about it any longer.
Good to see TinCow at least is able to defend against the Sith.
Still incredibly annoying that the Sith Lord is blocking Qui-Gon every night.
Our main suspects for today are Subotan and pevergreen.
To a lesser extent, we should look at ATPG and Centurion.
Vote: pevergreen
Askthepizzaguy
05-09-2010, 03:18
You are under attack.
You can use one defensive ability as a Jedi Knight.
Ability1
Ability2
Pm me back with your choice within the hour. If not Random.org will make the choice for you
Sigurd
This matches what I got in my PM EXACTLY
You are under attack.
You can use one defensive ability as a Jedi Knight.
-
-
-
Pm me back with your choice within the hour. If not Random.org will make the choice for you
Sigurd
I don't know how pevergreen could know this exactly unless he was innocent.
Vote: Subotan
I know that pevergreen was the original target for the vigilante attack.
However, the time delays that pever give and that the vigilante give do not match up. I do not even know if the orders for pever to be killed were even sent in the first place.
I need a confirmation of that in private from the vigilante.
Because, if those orders weren't sent, I hate to say it but... the only one "blocked" from action last night was Diamondeye. Unless being attacked itself constitutes a "blocking". In which case ATPG is also suspect. But until I get those results, it's all speculation, because this could be just the result of an order change.
Askthepizzaguy
05-09-2010, 03:31
I know that pevergreen was the original target for the vigilante attack.
However, the time delays that pever give and that the vigilante give do not match up. I do not even know if the orders for pever to be killed were even sent in the first place.
Without even waiting for his response, I can tell you.
The vigilante sent in the order, then later changed it.
That's the only way pever could know. That's the only way Sigurd would send him the message.
I need a confirmation of that in private from the vigilante.
I don't. I already know what he's going to say. :beam:
That's all well and good, but there is a chance someone else was also planning to attack pever, but was foiled by someone else.
I'm not going to rule anything out at this point. We lynched Cent twice and he's still alive, and we still don't know that he's innocent, after all.
Askthepizzaguy
05-09-2010, 03:40
That's all well and good, but there is a chance someone else was also planning to attack pever, but was foiled by someone else.
I'm not going to rule anything out at this point. We lynched Cent twice and he's still alive, and we still don't know that he's innocent, after all.
I hear you, BUT
The Sith really had no reason to change their kills last night, AND pevergreen was the original target AND the target was changed AND his message matches mine exactly. It should also match Tincow's message when he was attacked.
So I'm not ruling it out, but the odds are sharply against. And I don't see pevergreen killing Beefy right away either.
I hear you, BUT
The Sith really had no reason to change their kills last night, AND pevergreen was the original target AND the target was changed AND his message matches mine exactly. It should also match Tincow's message when he was attacked.
So I'm not ruling it out, but the odds are sharply against. And I don't see pevergreen killing Beefy right away either.
I'm not doubting that the Sith kept their kill orders... I'm worried that pevergreen might have been another kill in addition to the ones we had, were it not for either Diamondeye being blocked or you being attacked and therefore distracted.
That's why I gotta see those results.
All of my efforts were directed to defense last night. If there were two Sith kill attempts, and someone also blocked Qui-gon, I think the math shows it couldn't have been me. Especially if the logic being used to clear Psychonaut holds up.
Your survival proves nothing about you except that you have multiple defensive powers... more than I would expect for a Knight. Using defensive abilities has no impact on your ability to do other things at night. You're still a top suspect. Fortunately for you, you're not the absolute top.
Vote: pevergreen
pevergreen
05-09-2010, 04:04
Your survival proves nothing about you except that you have multiple defensive powers... more than I would expect for a Knight. Using defensive abilities has no impact on your ability to do other things at night. You're still a top suspect. Fortunately for you, you're not the absolute top.
Vote: pevergreen
And I am? :laugh4:
Vote: TinCow
Can you dig it?
pevergreen is lying, he was never attacked by anyone... no one even attempted to attack him. He and ATPG are fabricating PMs from Sigurd.
And I am? :laugh4:
Vote: TinCow
Can you dig it?
I guess you don't care about finding the Sith then? You only want to lynch people the Sith have failed to kill?
pevergreen
05-09-2010, 04:12
I could say the exact same about you?
edit:
Rules are – few…
The game will be divided into two phases per round. A day phase where everybody participates and a night phase where very few participate.
What the particulars are will be revealed in due time.
I am aiming for a game that could become a classic, a game that even after being played once could be played again without too many changes.
As with the Midgard games, I strive to innovate. That is true for this game as well.
40 characters are ready for grabs, will you be one of them?
Sign up people!!!
want me to screenshot it? Not against the rules, but hey.
I could say the exact same about you?
You do realize that the fact that I've been attacked by the Sith twice pretty much makes it pointless for you to attempt to lynch me. Might want to try coming up with a better target, you're going to need a scapegoat if you want to survive this round.
Askthepizzaguy
05-09-2010, 04:29
pevergreen is lying, he was never attacked by anyone... no one even attempted to attack him. He and ATPG are fabricating PMs from Sigurd.
My PM is not fake at all.
You should know that, you attacked me.
My PM is not fake at all.
Oh, I know yours isn't. It's pever's that is fake. Given the speed with which you jumped to his defense, at the moment I believe you helped him fabricate it.
Askthepizzaguy
05-09-2010, 04:32
Oh, I know yours isn't. It's pever's that is fake. Given the speed with which you jumped to his defense, at the moment I believe you helped him fabricate it.
You mean send him mine?
Askthepizzaguy
05-09-2010, 04:33
want me to screenshot it? Not against the rules, but hey.
If it were that easy I would have screenshotted my role PM a long time ago, and the results from last night and all the updates to my character. I think that's unsporting.
You mean send him mine?
Well, to be fair there are two options as I see it. #1) pever got the PM from you, yes. #2) pever is telling the truth, but the person who attacked him was DE.
Neither of those scenarios clears him. Far from it, actually.
Askthepizzaguy
05-09-2010, 04:39
Well, to be fair there are two options as I see it. #1) pever got the PM from you, yes. #2) pever is telling the truth, but the person who attacked him was DE.
Neither of those scenarios clears him. Far from it, actually.
#1 isn't true.
#2 is actually more damning. I agree.
unvote, vote: pevergreen
pevergreen
05-09-2010, 04:42
lol k
If it were that easy I would have screenshotted my role PM a long time ago
Cause cover roles never are given to mafia.
Askthepizzaguy
05-09-2010, 04:48
Hmmm
Wait a sec. No, that's not right.
I think I actually have a good defense for pevergreen (which means I must be scum)
One moment
Askthepizzaguy
05-09-2010, 04:51
This defense is based on me being innocent, so take that with a grain of salt, but:
I know pevergreen didn't get the following information from me.
You are under attack.
You can use one defensive ability as a Jedi Knight.
Ability1
Ability2
Pm me back with your choice within the hour. If not Random.org will make the choice for you
Sigurd
That matches my PM exactly. The only other place he could possibly have gotten it from is Tincow, and Tincow is obviously saying he didn't send it to pevergreen.
So what does that mean?
Either pevergreen and I are both mafia, or pevergreen is innocent.
unvote, vote: Subotan
Sith blocked DE, DE attacked pever, pever got that PM, the PM matches mine. That means either pevergreen and I are both Sith and he got that PM from me, or....
no I have one ever better than that. Hahahaha.... uno momento.
This defense is based on me being innocent, so take that with a grain of salt, but:
I know pevergreen didn't get the following information from me.
That matches my PM exactly. The only other place he could possibly have gotten it from is Tincow, and Tincow is obviously saying he didn't send it to pevergreen.
So what does that mean?
Either pevergreen and I are both mafia, or pevergreen is innocent.
unvote, vote: Subotan
Umm... how does this counter the theory that he was attacked by DE, but the attack didn't go through because DE was blocked? You know... the entire reason you voted for pever about 5 minutes ago?
Askthepizzaguy
05-09-2010, 04:53
Tincow, you know that the PM should match the PM that you got, in general format at least.
You should have had to make those same choices pever and I did. The proof that it is either both me and pever, or neither of us, is sitting in your inbox.
Askthepizzaguy
05-09-2010, 04:55
Umm... how does this counter the theory that he was attacked by DE, but the attack didn't go through because DE was blocked? You know... the entire reason you voted for pever about 5 minutes ago?
Because the Sith lord blocked DE.
What I am saying is, that doesn't prove pever did it, only that pever was to be attacked and it was blocked by someone who blocked DE.
But, the format MATCHES my pm, which means that he's a Jedi Knight just as he said. I have firsthand information that pevergreen must be innocent, because the only way that formatting matches if he is guilty is if it came from YOU directly. From my perspective and knowledge.
It's not true, or you wouldn't be trying to get him killed off.
Tincow, you know that the PM should match the PM that you got, in general format at least.
You should have had to make those same choices pever and I did. The proof that it is either both me and pever, or neither of us, is sitting in your inbox.
And... how does pever being attacked by DE prove that pever is innocent?
Sasaki Kojiro
05-09-2010, 04:58
So pever and pizza are guilty?
But, the format MATCHES my pm, which means that he's a Jedi Knight just as he said. I have firsthand information that pevergreen must be innocent, because the only way that formatting matches if he is guilty is if it came from YOU directly. From my perspective and knowledge.
I don't see how that makes any difference. The Sith get promoted by rank just like everyone else, makes sense that their rank would impact their defensive abilities, just as it does yours and mine. Sigurd could easily use the same Jedi-rank defense system for the Sith. In fact, that seems the most fair. If they had extra defenses beyond their cover roles, it would be an easy tell.
Askthepizzaguy
05-09-2010, 05:01
And... how does pever being attacked by DE prove that pever is innocent?
That part doesn't, that's not what I am arguing.
Sorry I have way too many IM windows and other things going on, I am not making myself very clear.
The proof that I have is proof only I would have, but to a lesser extent, yourself. pevergreen's message from Sigurd is formatted exactly, word for word, with my own results from last night where you attacked me. Which means DE was to attack him but it failed due to Sith interference.
That means pevergreen was going to be attacked and did get that message, and that message does match mine exactly. And, he also got the message that the attack failed, because it did fail. At some point a Sith Lord blocked Diamondeye.
The only way pevergreen is guilty is if I am guilty, or someone else who was attacked (i.e. You) sent him the message. You probably didn't or this attack on pevergreen today makes no sense.
Basically, if Askthepizzaguy is innocent, pevergreen is, or he guessed the exact correct format and wording. I can vouch for him.
Askthepizzaguy
05-09-2010, 05:03
I don't see how that makes any difference. The Sith get promoted by rank just like everyone else, makes sense that their rank would impact their defensive abilities, just as it does yours and mine. Sigurd could easily use the same Jedi-rank defense system for the Sith. In fact, that seems the most fair. If they had extra defenses beyond their cover roles, it would be an easy tell.
Hmm.... okay that is a loophole and an outside chance of being true.
I see what you're saying, but I feel that isn't the case. In a judgment call I say it isn't true.
Sasaki Kojiro
05-09-2010, 05:06
So the sith are supposed to have blocked DE in between when sigurd sent the message to pever and the end of the phase? I guess DE can tell us whether he attacked pever.
So the sith are supposed to have blocked DE in between when sigurd sent the message to pever and the end of the phase? I guess DE can tell us whether he attacked pever.
I think it's just Sigurd processing all attack orders at the same time. It can't be a change of targets, because those PMs weren't sent out until after the time for submitting orders had ended. Any change in target would not have counted because it would have been too late. So, it has to have been a roleblocked that stopped the attack, and the only roleblock was of DE.
Yes, frankly I am surprised that DE left me in the dark about a vig ability (and to a lesser extent TinCow, until last night).
But either way, I think we've got the mafia cornered now. They can't even kill right.
Askthepizzaguy
05-09-2010, 05:21
When I saw the attack on me, I assumed it was a Sith attacking me. I thought everyone with vig abilities died off. I thought I had proof I was innocent.
That's what I get for skimming.
Didn't even know Belth survived his attack, or that there was a third attack on split. I was so excited I posted immediately after learning I had survived. :embarassed:
Askthepizzaguy
05-09-2010, 05:34
Just thinking aloud:
If pevergreen were Sith, and he blocked Diamondeye, then: Why would he get a message about choosing his defense? The block would have stopped all that, and it did stop all that. So the block defeats the kill attempt. There's no way pever would have gotten the message about choosing the defense IF he were the one blocking Diamondeye, because there would have been no need. The block move prevents the kill move.
So, that doesn't prove he's not Sith in and of itself, but it should prove that pevergreen isn't the one who blocked Diamondeye at the very least. And we know that other person has to be a Sith. That, matched up with the fact his "choose your defense" message matches mine, tells me that he legitimately did get the same message I got, which he never would have gotten if he were a Sith blocking Diamondeye.
He wouldn't have gotten the next message either about something stopping the kill attempt either.
Just thinking aloud:
If pevergreen were Sith, and he blocked Diamondeye, then: Why would he get a message about choosing his defense? The block would have stopped all that, and it did stop all that. So the block defeats the kill attempt. There's no way pever would have gotten the message about choosing the defense IF he were the one blocking Diamondeye, because there would have been no need. The block move prevents the kill move.
The entire 'attack never happened' PM doesn't make sense. Like I said, all that occurred after the deadline for submitting orders, so it couldn't have been an order change. Sigurd would have known that DE was going to be blocked, so why would he have sent the first attack notification PM out to pever in the first place?
Splitpersonality
05-09-2010, 06:33
But either way, I think we've got the mafia cornered now. They can't even kill right.
Says you!
Askthepizzaguy
05-09-2010, 08:17
The entire 'attack never happened' PM doesn't make sense. Like I said, all that occurred after the deadline for submitting orders, so it couldn't have been an order change. Sigurd would have known that DE was going to be blocked, so why would he have sent the first attack notification PM out to pever in the first place?
I think the entire round was late and given an extension. I got my message at Yesterday 16:43 which was after the deadline as well, I think. Then I would have had to submit orders to defend myself, and then the writeup was posted a couple hours later.
(my time)
05-07-2010 20:08
Night time ends 23:00 GMT+1 (in about 21 hours) orders in by 22:00 GMT+1 (20 hours)
Would be 16:00 my time.
And I got my message way after that.
I think pevergreen's story at least checks out for now. And if we make the assumption that it's possible there is still only one Sith... he cannot be the original.
Unvote, Vote: Subotan
For now. This is much too confusing. We should have gotten rid of all these people 10 rounds ago.
I have a couple requests:
To Diamondeye/TinCow-
1. Why didn't I even know about your vigilante powers until today?
2. Why is this the first night either of you have tried to use them? We just about proved vigilantism had little to do with conversion back when I investigated Beskar.
To Psychonaut-
1. Give me a full list of your abilities, please
2. You have Force Healing, right? Who have you been using it on since you exposed yourself?
2. Why is this the first night either of you have tried to use them? We just about proved vigilantism had little to do with conversion back when I investigated Beskar.
I completely agree with this. Hence I said rounds ago.
Diamondeye
05-09-2010, 11:07
pevergreen is lying, he was never attacked by anyone... no one even attempted to attack him. He and ATPG are fabricating PMs from Sigurd.
Well, to be fair there are two options as I see it. #1) pever got the PM from you, yes. #2) pever is telling the truth, but the person who attacked him was DE.
Neither of those scenarios clears him. Far from it, actually.
So the sith are supposed to have blocked DE in between when sigurd sent the message to pever and the end of the phase? I guess DE can tell us whether he attacked pever.
I attempted to attack pevergreen, yes, and I was blocked.
As to why i didn't use the ability until before; a succesful vigilante kill makes you susceptible to the Dark Side.
Still, I think vote:pevergreen is in order. ATPG being a close second in scumminess (especially standing up for pever so much).
HoS: ATPG
To Psychonaut-
1. Give me a full list of your abilities, please
2. You have Force Healing, right? Who have you been using it on since you exposed yourself?
Already posted earlier:
Edit - Probably should have PMed you the above and below. My sleeping patterns are playing havoc on my mind. I had 4 hours from 7am-11am on Saturday morning, 4am-9am this morning and then I slept on my lawn most of the afternoon 2pm-5pm. My weekend was quite ridiculous.
I've been protecting ----.
I'm withholding my vote until I sleep, I've only skimmed from the write-up onwards, so I can't really participate fully currently. I had a rather hectic weekend, so I'm going to crash soon. Will be back later, once refreshed. :bow:
How does pevergreen being (nearly) attacked by a vig kill make him innocent? It doesn't do anything to prove or absolve him of guilt.
Just thinking aloud:
If pevergreen were Sith, and he blocked Diamondeye, then: Why would he get a message about choosing his defense? The block would have stopped all that, and it did stop all that. So the block defeats the kill attempt. There's no way pever would have gotten the message about choosing the defense IF he were the one blocking Diamondeye, because there would have been no need. The block move prevents the kill move.
This assumes that the block order was sent in before the kill order. pever might have had no idea about who was attacking him, and sent in the DE block as a random throw of the dice.
Hmm.... okay [The Sith having defences] is a loophole and an outside chance of being true.
I see what you're saying, but I feel that isn't the case. In a judgment call I say it isn't true.
Seeing as we've seen the Sith kill with lightning , and have other Jedi abilities (Such as force breath), it stands to reason that they are able to acquire our defensive abilities.
***
Why has the case against Centurion disappeared? (Along with Centurion himself) I thought the whole point of lynching him yesterday was that it was so that we could lynch him today.
The town as a whole need to make a clear decision about whether we lynch pevergreen or Centurion1 today. If there's just one Sith left, then the worst possible outcome that can occur is for a tie to develop, and for Niklas to cast the deciding vote in his favour. Admittedly, although I find both scummy (And it is possible that one could be a recruit; if that's the case then we're probably screwed), I think Centurion is more likely to be Sith, given his behaviour in thread (Update since my last list; OTT confusion at night results, half-hearted "analysis"), but it is crucial we get unanimity on this.
Diamondeye
05-09-2010, 12:18
If the town does not lynch either centurion or pevergreen today, I will be disappointed :shame:
For now, I am tilting towards pever.
Diamondeye
05-09-2010, 12:28
Woe and behold, I grew smarter:
unvote; vote: Cent1
Everyone should follow this vote
pevergreen
05-09-2010, 12:43
Woe and behold, I grew smarter:
unvote; vote: Cent1
Everyone should follow this vote
As you command.
Unvote: TinCow, Vote: Centurion1
Woe and behold, I grew smarter:
Bit of a Freudian slip there, eh Diamondeye?
But if that's what we're going to do
Vote:Centurion1
Askthepizzaguy
05-09-2010, 12:50
And Diamondeye has convinced me as well.
unvote, vote: Centurion1
Subotan lives another day.
Pizza are you still a knight? How'd you get to use two defenses?
I agree with DE as well.
Unvote; Vote: Centurion1
To Diamondeye/TinCow-
1. Why didn't I even know about your vigilante powers until today?
2. Why is this the first night either of you have tried to use them? We just about proved vigilantism had little to do with conversion back when I investigated Beskar.
1) I like to keep some surprises in my pocket, for a rainy day. Besides, I told Beskar about it when I got it, and I told Psychonaut about it a couple days later.
2) Two reasons. First, it does say I become susceptible to conversion. I really, really do not want to be a Sith in this game because I've put too much effort into a town victory. I would seem cheap to me to switch sides. Second, I have a general hesitation towards vigilanteism. I'm not entirely convinced its always in the town's interests to kill and I don't trust my own judgment on targets. It took a brief PM to Sasaki to overcome my hesitation in this game.
Askthepizzaguy
05-09-2010, 13:21
Pizza are you still a knight? How'd you get to use two defenses?
One is active, the other is passive and is a "choose your defense".
Force barrier protects me from several things, and if I am to choose a night action, that's the one I could choose besides Stealth. If I do that I can't do other things.
However, if I get attacked, I can also select from Force Speed and Force Blinding to defend myself; standard procedure for anyone with those abilities. Diana can confirm, Tincow I believe has some of the same powers.
That part doesn't, that's not what I am arguing.
Sorry I have way too many IM windows and other things going on, I am not making myself very clear.
The proof that I have is proof only I would have, but to a lesser extent, yourself. pevergreen's message from Sigurd is formatted exactly, word for word, with my own results from last night where you attacked me. Which means DE was to attack him but it failed due to Sith interference.
That means pevergreen was going to be attacked and did get that message, and that message does match mine exactly. And, he also got the message that the attack failed, because it did fail. At some point a Sith Lord blocked Diamondeye.
The only way pevergreen is guilty is if I am guilty, or someone else who was attacked (i.e. You) sent him the message. You probably didn't or this attack on pevergreen today makes no sense.
Basically, if Askthepizzaguy is innocent, pevergreen is, or he guessed the exact correct format and wording. I can vouch for him.
No.
Pevergreen could have blocked DE himself, being the sith lord himself. If block attempts always take priority over kill attempts then he would have basically saved himself by blocking DE.
As for
The entire 'attack never happened' PM doesn't make sense. Like I said, all that occurred after the deadline for submitting orders, so it couldn't have been an order change. Sigurd would have known that DE was going to be blocked, so why would he have sent the first attack notification PM out to pever in the first place?
I suppose Sigurd sent the defend-PM earlier, after that he received the block-PM and as a night result notified pever that the attacker never showed up.
Or pever made it up as you say but then how did he get a perfect PM? From ATPG?
edit: Forgot to read the last page before replying, some of this has already been said, but I'll keep it anyway.
Askthepizzaguy
05-09-2010, 13:29
Pevergreen could have blocked DE himself, being the sith lord himself. If block attempts always take priority over kill attempts then he would have basically saved himself by blocking DE.
The Sith Lord would have been blocking Diamondeye anyway.
As soon as he sends in that block, there's no need to ever get a message from Sigurd saying "choose your defense"
His pm format was exactly the same as mine without error
Tincow and I were the only ones to survive being attacked, iirc. I didn't send pever the pm, Tincow didn't because he got attacked by Sith, so he's not doing that as it makes no sense.
pevergreen could be Sith, but he cannot be the Sith lord due to the mechanics of the block and the vig kill, plus the PM evidence.
On the round Niklas and pever were tied, Niklas was already semi-exposed as scum. There's no way he allows pevergreen to almost get lynched instead, if pever is the other Sith Lord. One vote would have ruined their entire chances, because after pever goes Niklas, who knew he was caught.
pevergreen doesn't care about these games enough to murder Beefy187 on night one. pever and Beefy are basically conjoined twins.
pevergreen isn't the Sith lord. He can be the recruit, but not the lord.
As for me, I cannot be the Sith lord as I was scanned as Sith-recruitable before I ever got force stealth, by Beskar.
Then I offered to die in Chaotix's place and nearly did, too.
I can only be the recruit, not the lord.
For what it's worth, I do currently believe that pever got those PMs from Sigurd. I just don't understand why he got them.
Askthepizzaguy
05-09-2010, 13:46
A stab at an explanation:
Sith Lord blocks Diamondeye but does it quite late in the round. (while it is still a legal action)
Sigurd is absent until after the round ends, can't send the defend yourself messages until he gets online.
Sigurd reads attack from Diamondeye first, sends pevergreen the notification he's being attacked. He sends me the same, at around the same time (about 10-15 minutes difference)
Sigurd continues reading and sees that Diamondeye is blocked, so the whole choose your defense thing doesn't matter anymore.
Sigurd issues a small clarification that the attack never happened, but leaves the reasons ambiguous.
That fits what happened, and is one explanation. However, this may not be what happened, there may be other options. But this is the only one I can think of which explains everything.
pevergreen
05-09-2010, 13:46
pevergreen doesn't care about these games enough to murder Beefy187 on night one. pever and Beefy are basically conjoined twins.
We're just friends, and I deny all the allegations stemming from a certain video on facebook.
Only RR & I are that close.
I haven't seen beefy in...quite a while. 17 months!
pevergreen would actually kill beefy187 and husar in night one. Just for the kicks.
Also, pever, it is Pokémon, not poke-him-one. :no:
Askthepizzaguy
05-09-2010, 13:58
I really, really do not want to be a Sith in this game because I've put too much effort into a town victory. I would seem cheap to me to switch sides.
I don't believe this part of your story, actually Tincow.
I believe you're town and I believe you're working for a townie victory. But I also believe that you would do whatever it takes to win, and if the Jedi get stomped, your backup plan is to become convert-able so you can win anyway. That also explains why you targeted me and not Centurion1.
I am more of a liability to the Sith than Centurion1 is, so the best way to hedge your bet is to attack me. If I am Sith, you become a town hero. If I am not, one less annoyance when you become Sith later.
pevergreen
05-09-2010, 14:00
pevergreen would actually kill beefy172 and husar in night one. Just for the kicks.
Also, pever, it is Pokémon, not poke-him-one. :no:
Grrrrr.
atheotes
05-09-2010, 14:04
Vote: Centurion1
will be back to catch up later.
I don't believe this part of your story, actually Tincow.
I believe you're town and I believe you're working for a townie victory. But I also believe that you would do whatever it takes to win, and if the Jedi get stomped, your backup plan is to become convert-able so you can win anyway. That also explains why you targeted me and not Centurion1.
I am more of a liability to the Sith than Centurion1 is, so the best way to hedge your bet is to attack me. If I am Sith, you become a town hero. If I am not, one less annoyance when you become Sith later.
Well, you're totally wrong. I'm telling the truth about not wanting to be Sith. In addition, I did not give any serious consideration to attacking Cent1 because he claimed to have a night attack deflection ability, and I believed him. The choice was between you and pever. I chose you, because I knew I'd get a major headache trying to get you lynched. It was a lazy-man choice.
pevergreen
05-09-2010, 14:40
I feel insulted.
I feel insulted.
:shrug:
Who Posted?
* Posts 407 Askthepizzaguy
* Posts 83 pevergreen
pevergreen
05-09-2010, 14:49
I'd make quantity vs quality, but his quality is above mine.
I know, I'd rather try to get me lynched than ATPG. I don't blame my insultedness on you TC.
Though sigurd telling me off didn't help. :laugh4:
Askthepizzaguy
05-09-2010, 14:58
I'd make quantity vs quality, but his quality is above mine.
If quality is arguing with a known townie for pages regarding how guilty the town doctor is, I suppose I have quality.
Askthepizzaguy
05-09-2010, 15:03
Well, you're totally wrong. I'm telling the truth about not wanting to be Sith. In addition, I did not give any serious consideration to attacking Cent1 because he claimed to have a night attack deflection ability, and I believed him. The choice was between you and pever. I chose you, because I knew I'd get a major headache trying to get you lynched. It was a lazy-man choice.
Interesting is I told Chaotix I had night attack deflection powers. He still let you attack me?
Derp I am stupid. You don't even have to explain why that question is dumb, I already know.
Wow, in before it even says "edit".
Okay now it says edit.
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