View Full Version : Large Mafia Game StarWars: Return of the Sith [Concluded]
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Sasaki Kojiro
04-13-2010, 20:55
Yeah, lets lynch beskar to test the unlynchable thing, and then not trust him. Anyone can be turned to the dark side. His request for power and information shows he is already on that path.
Mass-role reveals are game-breaking. They ruin the fun and defeat the purpose of the game.
And as Shadow Fort shows, useless and borderline dangerous if we're dealing with a faction that can recruit [Assuming that the Sith can recruit, which is likely]
Yeah, lets lynch beskar to test the unlynchable thing, and then not trust him. Anyone can be turned to the dark side. His request for power and information shows he is already on that path.
It doesn't work like that. You have to do dark-acts to become suspectible to the dark side.
GeneralHankerchief
04-13-2010, 21:08
Speaking from recent experience they are quite a lot of fun when you happen to be one of the people doing the breaking. :) But not so much for everybody else, I agree. I have no objections towards anyone who holds their information back from Beskar out of principle, whether Sigurd can be counted on to have taken proper precautions against such things or not. GH seemed to suggest his last comment was on the matter of voting for Beskar, though; that's what I wanted to hear about.
Okay, fair enough. But the two points are connected.
For me, this round, possibly even this game (though that remains to be seen) is no longer about finding the mafia and winning the game. This is quickly becoming one of those times where the meta implications of a move outweigh the particular game. My vote is partially to take Beskar's bait, true. But the other part is out of protest of his action. If he survives, and sets up the all-powerful protown network, one of two things will happen. First, Sigurd's precautions will come in effect, making everybody look silly and give me bad memories of this game just as Midgard II did. Second, as has been alluded to, the protown network will become so powerful that the game won't turn out to be fun for anybody save for Beskar and maybe a lieutenant or two of his.
I thought that this was the general conclusion the .Org had come to after we had just finished up with the back-to-back network-heavy games of Capo III and Pirate Ship Mafia. The mafia's defeat in Capo III was inevitable from very early on, and I had to step in and rescue Pirate Ship midway through from the same fate. Basically, here's how the game goes when one of these networks emerges: Wait a round or two, network gets established, network grows in power, game becomes network vs. everybody else, players get whittled down as per the network's whims, last suspect killed, network wins. Members of network slap each other on the back afterwards and say "good job" and then all of them except maybe the uppermost tier of the network goes home secretly unfulfilled because, despite their victory, the game wasn't fun. It was just them following orders and there's really no satisfaction to be gained from that, and I'm not even mentioning the players on the outside of the network because they had no chance in the first place.
Fight me if I'm wrong, but I'm of the novel group of people that want to have fun when they're playing games. Let's play the game the way it was meant to be played and insert a little drama while we find and kill the Sith, eh? And if this means that one round and one possible pro-town role has to be sacrificed in the name of playing the game the right way, so be it.
:soapbox:
Fight me if I'm wrong, but I'm of the novel group of people that want to have fun when they're playing games. Let's play the game the way it was meant to be played and insert a little drama while we find and kill the Sith, eh? And if this means that one round and one possible pro-town role has to be sacrificed in the name of playing the game the right way, so be it.
If you lynch me now, I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.
atheotes
04-13-2010, 21:18
Okay, fair enough. But the two points are connected.
For me, this round, possibly even this game (though that remains to be seen) is no longer about finding the mafia and winning the game. This is quickly becoming one of those times where the meta implications of a move outweigh the particular game. My vote is partially to take Beskar's bait, true. But the other part is out of protest of his action. If he survives, and sets up the all-powerful protown network, one of two things will happen. First, Sigurd's precautions will come in effect, making everybody look silly and give me bad memories of this game just as Midgard II did. Second, as has been alluded to, the protown network will become so powerful that the game won't turn out to be fun for anybody save for Beskar and maybe a lieutenant or two of his.
I thought that this was the general conclusion the .Org had come to after we had just finished up with the back-to-back network-heavy games of Capo III and Pirate Ship Mafia. The mafia's defeat in Capo III was inevitable from very early on, and I had to step in and rescue Pirate Ship midway through from the same fate. Basically, here's how the game goes when one of these networks emerges: Wait a round or two, network gets established, network grows in power, game becomes network vs. everybody else, players get whittled down as per the network's whims, last suspect killed, network wins. Members of network slap each other on the back afterwards and say "good job" and then all of them except maybe the uppermost tier of the network goes home secretly unfulfilled because, despite their victory, the game wasn't fun. It was just them following orders and there's really no satisfaction to be gained from that, and I'm not even mentioning the players on the outside of the network because they had no chance in the first place.
Fight me if I'm wrong, but I'm of the novel group of people that want to have fun when they're playing games. Let's play the game the way it was meant to be played and insert a little drama while we find and kill the Sith, eh? And if this means that one round and one possible pro-town role has to be sacrificed in the name of playing the game the right way, so be it.
:soapbox:
:yes:
If you lynch me now, I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.
This makes me wonder if he lied to Secura about being unlynchable, therefore making me want to lynch him even more.
Sasaki Kojiro
04-13-2010, 21:22
Basically, here's how the game goes when one of these networks emerges: Wait a round or two, network gets established, network grows in power, game becomes network vs. everybody else, players get whittled down as per the network's whims, last suspect killed, network wins. Members of network slap each other on the back afterwards and say "good job" and then all of them except maybe the uppermost tier of the network goes home secretly unfulfilled because, despite their victory, the game wasn't fun. It was just them following orders and there's really no satisfaction to be gained from that, and I'm not even mentioning the players on the outside of the network because they had no chance in the first place.
Yeah, this is the problem with networks. Organization, efficiency, and orders. If you don't come up with an explicit strategy that everyone follows it works out great.
But honestly, from what Sigurd said I don't think there are many power roles. He said "very few active at night". So any pro town network will be ineffective.
CR had a few innovations that work very well too.
@ GH:
The only place I really object to you is where you say "the way the game was meant to be played". If Sigurd put in a confirmable role, then given he is not an inexperienced GM, he must mean it to be there. He must mean it to be used the way all of us expect it will be (both the compliant people and the ones who aren't; both the positives and the negatives). Assuming Beskar's telling the truth, I don't think you can make the argument that his pending confirmation and whatever comes of that is not the way THIS game is meant to be played. I think it quite clearly is.
The question of fun, which is where I come very close to agreeing with you, is a separate issue. So basically I'm just not quite comfortable with the judgment implied in "how the game is meant to be played". Role-heavy games are always, to some extent, going to be divorced from pure blissfully-ignorant scum-hunting, from the simple paradigm of uninformed majority vs informed minority. They can and do often work wonderfully despite that, but it's just the nature of the beast that they are played (and meant to be played) differently from pure-vanilla games.
Erm, sorry soapbox. :) I just find this stuff fun to talk about while we're waiting for Beskar to get strung up.
GeneralHankerchief
04-13-2010, 21:29
Sigurd has made the concept of a pro-town network look silly in two of his previous games. Either it's going to happen again or the combination of an unlynchable role and another powerful network will overcome it. Neither outcome is in my best interests, the former being in-character and the latter being out of character.
I don't doubt Sigurd's acumen when it comes to hosting and balancing, but nobody's perfect. Lord knows I made a ton of errors in Pirate Ship.
Sasaki Kojiro
04-13-2010, 21:31
A day phase where everybody participates and a night phase where very few participate.
Also, I have a feeling this is a different than usual game.
Yaropolk
04-13-2010, 21:54
If you lynch me now, I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.
Awesome, I want our Jedi Master to become more powerful than I can possibly imagine - and I can possibly imagine our Jedi Master becoming quite powerful - almost as powerful as my possible imagination allows me!
Unvote; Vote: Beskar
Sigurd has made the concept of a pro-town network look silly in two of his previous games. Either it's going to happen again or the combination of an unlynchable role and another powerful network will overcome it. Neither outcome is in my best interests, the former being in-character and the latter being out of character.
I don't doubt Sigurd's acumen when it comes to hosting and balancing, but nobody's perfect. Lord knows I made a ton of errors in Pirate Ship.
If you lynch him twice he'll most likely die.
Mass-role reveals are game-breaking. They ruin the fun and defeat the purpose of the game.
Yes, I won't be part of any pro-town network.
It may have worked once before now, but they aren't usually a good idea, one mafia slips through and the game is screwed over for Town.
@GH
I'm glad to see that you're expressing the same thoughts which I've had about networks which have become even more pronounced since Shadow Fort (So I'm spiteful so what). Networks end up taking "If you're not with us, you're against us" strategy, with the the non-networked townies just becoming fuel for the network machine. This is a problem, since my game will be a modified version of PSM, with an even bigger officer corps, and thus a stronger network. Political leadership, promotion and cliques are all fundamental concepts in my game. However, I have designed several measures that should if used successfully "break" the network, from several directions. I aim to see multiple pro-town networks competing against each other, along with the mafias.
Those are just my immediate thoughts.:juggle2:
Long story short, it's an issue of principle for me more than anything else.
Idem here.
Town network is not fun. I behaved erratically in Pirate Ship Mafia because I refused to work with a town network out of principle.
Besides, everyone can turn to the Dark Side, even a Jedi Master, so why should we give him all information to see him turn to the Dark Side and lead us to our doom?
If you lynch me now, I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.
We'll see about that.
Unvote; Vote : Beskar
Diamondeye
04-13-2010, 22:20
any talk of role reveal or townie network should wait till the phase is over and Beskar's role can be ascertained.
This :bow:
Beskar's the whole reason the town won Swords and D20s 3; he uncovered and named every single person and their respective roles to the host within a day of joining the game. And he joined one day after everyone else as it is. His boasting in-thread was a little irksome, but it was warranted I think.
This was precisely the reason I wanted Beskar's claims proven; if he was lying, we bagged a Sith, and if he was telling the truth, we have someone to rally around.
I read it as a win-win, but your mileage may well vary.
I love your TVTropes references, Secura. Keep them coming :laugh4:
Mass-role reveals are game-breaking. They ruin the fun and defeat the purpose of the game.
Agree. Ruins the game. I don't like it :(
Your fury makes you strong, perhaps even stronger than me.
Has anyone else noticed Beskar talking like he is quoting someone? He might be trying to hint to his personality, although it's about to become irrelevant...
If you lynch him twice he'll most likely die.
That comment is either very clever or very clever, if not then a sith, like Csargo for example, would have one round more where he does not have to worry about being lynched.
Askthepizzaguy
04-13-2010, 22:25
I request all roles to fully reveal to me after this lynch phase
Uh, NO.
No, we can trust him with some things, but no. If this guy can turn to the dark side, you guys are shafting yourselves. No no no no no no no. I'm up for just about anything Beskar, but 2 things: (A) Not balanced and (B) too dangerous. This is coming from mister pro-town network, lynch me if you don't like it.
That comment is either very clever or very clever, if not then a sith, like Csargo for example, would have one round more where he does not have to worry about being lynched.
I'm a lovable doofus, why would they lynch me?
Oh, I forgot. Gotta express my distaste of pro-town networks with this one:
Unvote:Lord Winter, Vote:Beskar
voting closed...
Writeup being processed.
I agree with most of the forementioned opinion.
We will find out now whether or not Beskar is a Jedi Master. Whether he is or not, nobody should reveal to him. Even the Masters can be turned to the Dark Side, given the right incentive.
Even the Masters can be turned to the Dark Side, given the right incentive.
Not true. The Sith follow the rule of two. Even then, the Master has to use dark-side powers to become convertible once one of them dies.
Has anyone else noticed Beskar talking like he is quoting someone? He might be trying to hint to his personality, although it's about to become irrelevant...
He's quoting Count Dooku....
But honestly, from what Sigurd said I don't think there are many power roles. He said "very few active at night". So any pro town network will be ineffective.
My guess is the pro-town Jedi Masters will simply be able to hold their own at night if attacked.
Exclamation: Quoting HK Droids is highly amusing.
I totally agree that pro-town networks always make the game only fun for the people at the top. They also have a tendency to self-destruct whenever an important role or two dies.
[choxorn the lurker disappears again into the shadows, to reappear unannounced at a later time]
Round 2
Night
The time counter on the wall read 00:01 as the expedition leader entered the auditorium.
He was greeted with anticipating silence.
“Well, do you have a candidate?”
He looked into the eyes of the assembled Jedi members and they all watched with eager eyes as Count Dooku got up on his feet and walked with confident steps towards the expedition leader.
“I guess your candidate is me. But I told them that this is futile. The vacuum space will not kill me as it will do to any of those sitting here.” He swept his are across his audience.
“Is that so?” answered the expedition leader. “Well, that claim can only be proven by releasing you into space, or am I wrong?”
Count Dooku sighed and moved towards the auditorium door. He opened it and stepped trough. He took up position outside and waited. “Well?” he said. “How about we get this laughable execution on its way, already.”
The expedition leader walked out of the auditorium, leading a wagon of Jedi members.
Count Dooku waited by the door until all of them were outside before he closed it.
The expedition leader turned to a few of the Jedi Knights and with a hand gesture towards Dooku – the Jedi Knights ignited their light-sabers and took up positions around the accused and sentenced Count Dooku. “Let’s head down to the hangar bay.” The procession marched in the direction of the hangar and all seemed sober with anticipation. Here they were on this amazing relic of a ship, two murders had happened in their midst and they had collectively accused and sentenced a fellow Jedi.
As they entered the hangar bay they moved with purpose towards one of the force field barriers that separated them from the cold space. The Jedi Knights picked up Count Dooku at the expedition leader’s direction and moved toward the barrier.
“Any last words, Count Dooku?” asked the expedition leader. “Now is your last chance.”
Count Dooku looked at them with brown and knowing eyes. “You are fools to embrace science only. You have so much more potential that this. We just need to embrace the old ways and we will become more powerful than we have ever been.” Count Dooku bowed his head and inhaled deeply.
At the sign of the expedition leader, they threw him through the barrier.
They could see Count Dooku floating silently just outside the barrier, he seemed frozen and lifeless.
They were all about to turn around and leave when the Count twitched. They turned in amazement as they beheld Count Dooku moving his head towards them and smile. He gestured that he wanted to reenter the hangar bay. A few alarmed breath-intakes among the Jedi members announced the presence of Count Dooku reentering he hangar bay.
When he finally stood before them, a little frozen but nonetheless quite healthy, he announced.
“It is a little trick I learned, that’s all. Now, should we continue the search of this ship and get it powered up?"
The expedition leader looked thoughtfully at Count Dooku before he answered. “I guess we could do that…"
Tally
Beskar : 15 (Andres, ATPG, auto, Chaotix, Diamondeye, GH, Methos, Niklas, pever, Renata, Sasaki, Secura, Subotan, Yaropolk, Yaseikhaan)
White_Eyes:D: 3 (Joooray, Khazaar, Winston)
Andres: 2 (Diana, WE:D)
Pizzaguy: 2 (ACIN, TheFlax)
Secura: 2 (Beskar, TinCow)
Renata: 1 (atheotes)
TinCow: 1 (Belisarius)
Thermal: 1 (Captn Blackadder)
pever: 1 (Csargo)
Jolt: 1 (Jolt)
Sasaki: 1 (Kagemusha)
Kagemusha: 1 (Lord Winter)
Khazaar: 1 (Psycho)
Belisarius II: 1 (Thermal)
Abstains: 1 (Ibn)
Not voting: 4 (AVSM, Centurion1, Greyblades, johnhugh, )
Killed
Beefy187
Husar
Alive
a completely inoffensive name
A Very Super Market
Andres
Askthepizzaguy
atheotes
autolycus
Belisarius II
Beskar
Captain Blackadder
Centurion1
Chaotix
Csargo
Diamondeye
Diana Abnoba
GeneralHankerchief
Greyblades
Ibn-Khaldun
johnhughthom
Jolt
Joooray
Kagemusha
Khazaar
Lord Winter
Methos
Niklas
pevergreen
Psychonaut
Renata
Sasaki Kojiro
Secura
Subotan
TheFlax
Thermal Mercury
TinCow
White_eyes:D
Winston Hughes
Yaropolk
Yaseikhaan
It is now night time and roughly 24 hours until 00:00 GMT+1 until next phase.
I might do some graphics later... right now I am knackered after a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong day at work with a monster meeting with one of our drilling contractors.
As some one guessed rightly with the quotes, I am the pre-sith Jedi Master Count Dooku, Student of Yoda. As once described: "The best of all would be the strongest student, yes? Wisest? Most learned in the ways of the Force? Best of all, Dooku would be! Our greatest student! "
Observation: Oh, it's Count Dooku! Where do I know him from?
Request: Phreaps it is time the Count Meatbag is blasted in the head? Are there droids or meatbags willing to work with a Assassin Droid on such a task?
Retraction: Er, Protocol Droid, that's what I mean.
As some one guessed rightly with the quotes, I am the pre-sith Jedi Master Count Dooku, Student of Yoda. As once described: "The best of all would be the strongest student, yes? Wisest? Most learned in the ways of the Force? Best of all, Dooku would be! Our greatest student! "
You are, undoubtedly, the most corruptible of any Jedi Master. I do not trust you, and no one should.
If anyone is to lead the Jedi, it shall not be you. While I do not doubt that you have good intentions for the time being, as Dooku did, we shall have no way of knowing if and when you turn. I hope the light side within you remains strong, and that you do not repeat the mistakes of your ancestor in the Force.
You are, undoubtedly, the most corruptible of any Jedi Master. I do not trust you, and no one should.
If anyone is to lead the Jedi, it shall not be you. While I do not doubt that you have good intentions for the time being, as Dooku did, we shall have no way of knowing if and when you turn. I hope the light side within you remains strong, and that you do not repeat the mistakes of your ancestor in the Force.
Actually, I do know about turning. I can only become suspectible to the dark-side if I do any vigilante night actions. But since, I am an investigator as well and that action doesn't corrupt me. think of it like Capo 3, do the night kills, get closer to being a mafia, do protect/investigates, etc and you don't.
You either know this and trying to cause distrust or you are just a mistaken townie.
Also, the Sith have limited numbers and have to die before to they can recruit anyway.
You are, undoubtedly, the most corruptible of any Jedi Master. I do not trust you, and no one should.
Names don't mean anything in this game; after recieving my Role PM, I searched Wookieepedia for my character, who is apparantly a Jedi Master who died one year prior to the Battle of Naboo, yet my PM states that I'm only an Initiate.
They're just names.
Names don't mean anything in this game; after recieving my Role PM, I searched Wookieepedia for my character, who is apparantly a Jedi Master who died one year prior to the Battle of Naboo, yet my PM states that I'm only an Initiate.
They're just names.
They are not just names. They are different people, yet they are the same. The Force is a cycle; all become one with the Force at some time, and all are separate from the Force at some time. For these people, the Force has completed a full circle.
They are different people, they have had different life experiences; however, they have the same appearance and the same basic soul. As a Jedi Master who was corrupted in his past life, the Dooku we see now is just as corruptible. The only thing that is uncertain is whether or not he will be corrupted.
As some one guessed rightly with the quotes, I am the pre-sith Jedi Master Count Dooku, Student of Yoda. As once described: "The best of all would be the strongest student, yes? Wisest? Most learned in the ways of the Force? Best of all, Dooku would be! Our greatest student! Our greatest failure!"
Lol. Nice snip of the most pertinent part.
Askthepizzaguy
04-14-2010, 01:20
OOC: Well I am certain that Beskar bears watching and doesn't need to get overly sensitive information, it's also pointless to flay him based on the name Dooku. I'm certain Anakin is in this game and he will probably be a strong Jedi and on our side. By the way, there are plenty of other, less obvious Jedi to turn. They are equally as suspect as Dooku. The only difference is that the Sith know of him now, and so is a slightly larger risk than the others. If we cast aside a good Jedi like Dooku over the movies, you might as well cast out all the others who could ever possibly turn, which will be most of us. That's not the Jedi way.
OOC: Well I am certain that Beskar bears watching and doesn't need to get overly sensitive information, it's also pointless to flay him based on the name Dooku. I'm certain Anakin is in this game and he will probably be a strong Jedi and on our side. By the way, there are plenty of other, less obvious Jedi to turn. They are equally as suspect as Dooku. The only difference is that the Sith know of him now, and so is a slightly larger risk than the others. If we cast aside a good Jedi like Dooku over the movies, you might as well cast out all the others who could ever possibly turn, which will be most of us. That's not the Jedi way.
Actually, Anakin already revealed to me, he has a Jedi Knight rank. What I loved was when he said "I know you are telling the truth, because I am Anakin Skywalker and I am a Jedi Knight" :laugh4:
Lol. Nice snip of the most pertinent part.
Well, it is pre-sith dooku, so I am not a failure. :tongue:
Askthepizzaguy
04-14-2010, 01:24
Now that was what I was hoping to avoid the most.
People, stop revealing to Beskar.
OOC: Well I am certain that Beskar bears watching and doesn't need to get overly sensitive information, it's also pointless to flay him based on the name Dooku. I'm certain Anakin is in this game and he will probably be a strong Jedi and on our side. By the way, there are plenty of other, less obvious Jedi to turn. They are equally as suspect as Dooku. The only difference is that the Sith know of him now, and so is a slightly larger risk than the others. If we cast aside a good Jedi like Dooku over the movies, you might as well cast out all the others who could ever possibly turn, which will be most of us. That's not the Jedi way.
Of course. By no means do I advocate the lynch of Beskar (that would not do much, anyway), nor do I think he should die. He should be watched, carefully, and sensitive information should not be passed to him. He can be useful to us, and perhaps he will not even turn. I think, however, that if he ever uses his killing ability, he should be considered an enemy. If that allows him to turn, then to do that is practically to send the Sith Lord an apprenticeship application. If he never makes himself vulnerable, then he can never fall.
Well, it is pre-sith dooku, so I am not a failure.
Yet.
People, reveal to Beskar!
atheotes
04-14-2010, 01:30
Actually, Anakin already revealed to me, he has a Jedi Knight rank. What I loved was when he said "I know you are telling the truth, because I am Anakin Skywalker and I am a Jedi Knight" :laugh4:
:wall: whats the rush to reveal? we have no idea about the mechanics of the game (there is not much information yet and the host has said it is a learn as you go experience). Beskar could well be the Godfather type sith who cannot be lynched till his minions are killed. just a possibility.
And we have no idea about conversions. I would be surprised if there were no conversions in a Large Star wars game involving Jedi and Sith.
So there are people who can do vig kills...hmm... so it is quite possible the second kill was a vig kill and we could have wannabe siths...
GeneralHankerchief
04-14-2010, 01:33
I say we string him up again tomorrow. This could be a CountArach-in-The Settlement-type deal.
:wall: whats the rush to reveal? we have no idea about the mechanics of the game (there is not much information yet and the host has said it is a learn as you go experience). Beskar could well be the Godfather type sith who cannot be lynched till his minions are killed. just a possibility.
And we have no idea about conversions. I would be surprised if there were no conversions in a Large Star wars game involving Jedi and Sith.
So there are people who can do vig kills...hmm... so it is quite possible the second kill was a vig kill and we could have wannabe siths...
I believe a vigilante kill will be indicated by a Jedi-colored lightsaber, not a Sith-red one. If vigilante killings make one vulnerable to the Dark Side, then no Jedi must ever perform them. We can defeat the Sith more easily if their numbers do not grow.
I say we string him up again tomorrow. This could be a CountArach-in-The Settlement-type deal.
Agreement: That thought did also cross my mind too, meatbag. Would you like to kill him sooner so that we don't waste more lynches with him?
atheotes
04-14-2010, 02:00
I believe a vigilante kill will be indicated by a Jedi-colored lightsaber, not a Sith-red one. If vigilante killings make one vulnerable to the Dark Side, then no Jedi must ever perform them. We can defeat the Sith more easily if their numbers do not grow.
good point... but we need more information before we can peg kill types. Hopefully we will have more information tomorrow morning without too much damage.
atheotes
04-14-2010, 02:01
I say we string him up again tomorrow. This could be a CountArach-in-The Settlement-type deal.
we can wait and see what happens during the night...he has claimed that he can investigate.
Askthepizzaguy
04-14-2010, 02:11
I say we string him up again tomorrow. This could be a CountArach-in-The Settlement-type deal.
Helpful statement: It would be far simpler to investigate him.
Aww, I missed the sign-ups. Go ahead and mark me down as a reserve. :happy:
I say we string him up again tomorrow. This could be a CountArach-in-The Settlement-type deal.
You're willing to waste two lynch votes on that possibility? Even if he is Sith, there are at least two more of them out there. I think our time is better spent finding other suspects. It's not likely that an unlynchable role with the name of Count Dooku is going to be fully trusted anytime soon.
It's not likely that an unlynchable role with the name of Count Dooku is going to be fully trusted anytime soon.
That is part of Sigurd's sense of humour which why i said "I love you, Sigurd". You can just investigate me if you doubt me, but what I am saying is the truth and I have already assisted the town in providing information.
GeneralHankerchief
04-14-2010, 02:29
You're willing to waste two lynch votes on that possibility? Even if he is Sith, there are at least two more of them out there. I think our time is better spent finding other suspects. It's not likely that an unlynchable role with the name of Count Dooku is going to be fully trusted anytime soon.
No, I've seen this happen more times in the past than I can count. We kill him now, while he's still in the public view. If he doesn't get lynched next round, he slips away, has plenty of time to work, and then ends up destroying us all in the end. Lynch him tomorrow, get this part of the game over with, and then move on.
And I wouldn't trust any investigations on this role BTW.
atheotes
04-14-2010, 02:30
That is part of Sigurd's sense of humour which why i said "I love you, Sigurd". You can just investigate me if you doubt me, but what I am saying is the truth and I have already assisted the town in providing information.
what information? that you can investigate? that there could be vigilante roles?
Askthepizzaguy
04-14-2010, 02:45
No, I've seen this happen more times in the past than I can count. We kill him now, while he's still in the public view. If he doesn't get lynched next round, he slips away, has plenty of time to work, and then ends up destroying us all in the end. Lynch him tomorrow, get this part of the game over with, and then move on.
And I wouldn't trust any investigations on this role BTW.
Sure, I'll go along with that. And if he turns out to be an innocent, I suppose you'd be willing to die for wasting 2 rounds and possibly a powerful townie role?
If so, you've got my vote, with both possible meanings.
GeneralHankerchief
04-14-2010, 02:51
Sure, I'll go along with that. And if he turns out to be an innocent, I suppose you'd be willing to die for wasting 2 rounds and possibly a powerful townie role?
If so, you've got my vote, with both possible meanings.
No, I'm not willing to die for my mistake if it turns out I'm wrong. Because then we'll have wasted three rounds instead of two.
Askthepizzaguy
04-14-2010, 02:53
No, I'm not willing to die for my mistake if it turns out I'm wrong. Because then we'll have wasted three rounds instead of two.
:inquisitive:
I can vote for you either way. At least this way you get to check out a suspect first.
GeneralHankerchief
04-14-2010, 02:57
You misunderstand me. I'm not willing to die, period, because that's irresponsible townie behavior. Wasn't this established over a year ago?
I'm willing to admit that I was wrong, yes. Die, no.
No, I've seen this happen more times in the past than I can count. We kill him now, while he's still in the public view. If he doesn't get lynched next round, he slips away, has plenty of time to work, and then ends up destroying us all in the end. Lynch him tomorrow, get this part of the game over with, and then move on.
The only example you've cited is CountArach in Settlement. CountArach did not win Settlement. In any case, I very strongly believe there is at least one pro-town role out there that is more powerful than Beskar. I'm sure he will keep an eye on this proto-Sith even if we somehow forget about him.
Askthepizzaguy
04-14-2010, 03:16
Hmm. You're not one to get nervous under such simple pressure, so I'll accept your explanation here for now.
The only example you've cited is CountArach in Settlement. CountArach did not win Settlement. In any case, I very strongly believe there is at least one pro-town role out there that is more powerful than Beskar. I'm sure he will keep an eye on this proto-Sith even if we somehow forget about him.
There is, the expedition leader.
I believe they have revealed themselves to me, they spoke about night arrangements, and said about they know about the converting, etc, however, they were fishy because of the name "Count Dooku". Though saying that, in the write-up, he would have just struck me down if I was indeed a sith anyway, I doubt Jedi will re-allow me onboard if I was a sith.
GeneralHankerchief
04-14-2010, 03:24
The only example you've cited is CountArach in Settlement. CountArach did not win Settlement. In any case, I very strongly believe there is at least one pro-town role out there that is more powerful than Beskar. I'm sure he will keep an eye on this proto-Sith even if we somehow forget about him.
Slight difference here. CA was the only two-lynch example, true. But in the post you quoted, I was mostly referencing those who were in trouble early on, survived the initial attempt to lynch them, and then faded back into the background only to reemerge in the endgame and kill everybody. Assuming the Beskar/CA analogy is correct, then I'd equate "getting lynched once but dodging the second one" with "dodging the first lynch" for everybody else. Surely I don't need to cite all of those examples.
@ATPG: Not sure what you mean. Can you clarify?
pevergreen
04-14-2010, 03:40
I'd just like to state right here, before this is resolved, that I will *not* be providing any sort of information to Beskar even if he is lynched and ends up surviving. This will be out of protest for the system that I know is bound to materialize.
People are finally starting to agree with me.
QFT
Also, I would like to emphasize again that Sigurd does not allow this to happen. This was attempted in Midgard I and Sigurd responded by secretly providing all mafia with real cover role PMs to allow them to blend in. In Midgard II, Sigurd gave all mafioso cover role PMs right at the start of the game to prevent a mass-reveal from catching them. Even if Sigurd did not provide cover role PMs at the start of this game, I guarantee you that if a mass-reveal was attempted, he will ensure that it is useless.
IIRC didn't Midgard 1 hit this and the Jotun got perfect townie PM's midway through the game? Cover roles were rife in that, I was pro town and I got a cover role, even though I didn't have a night action...
I believe they have revealed themselves to me, they spoke about night arrangements, and said about they know about the converting, etc, however, they were fishy because of the name "Count Dooku". Though saying that, in the write-up, he would have just struck me down if I was indeed a sith anyway, I doubt Jedi will re-allow me onboard if I was a sith.
If at any point I am able to do this in any way (lynch, miraculous one off night kill etc) I will target you if you continue to keep this up.
So against these networks its not funny.
For those newer, read Netherworld (the first one) and pay attention to TinCow. Masterful performance, and proof of everything wrong with those groups.
Another against the idea of networks, they do detract from some of the fun. They can work to an extent, but only towards the interests of a few players. They can also be infiltrated, but doing so is not easy. They imbalance the game, and no doubt Sigurd will be forced to make alterations mid-game to rebalance things. :sigh:
johnhughthom
04-14-2010, 04:20
I remember my first real mafia game, Rubicon. I became mafia midway through the game and had to try to survive against what I believe was a well developed network. I may be wrong, at the time I was new and the townies seemed incredibly well coordinated, it was a lot of fun trying to outwit them even though I failed miserably. I have been in games though were there is a townie network and been neither mafia nor part of the network, that can be pretty dull.
Sasaki Kojiro
04-14-2010, 04:27
Yeah, that was the first game where attack/defend groups were used to confirm people. CR managed to destroy that tactic by the way his game was setup, which is really the best way. The recruiting system and limited value of investigations and town vs town factions too, well I guess I'm saying I really like the shadow fort :)
If you aren't in a group you just have to play it more like one of GH's vanilla games. Except that you'll run up a wagon on your suspect and have 5 people pm you and tell you he's innocent :p
atheotes
04-14-2010, 04:48
If you aren't in a group you just have to play it more like one of GH's vanilla games. Except that you'll run up a wagon on your suspect and have 5 people pm you and tell you he's innocent :p
or more likely your vote will get lost in the bandwagon of the network :tongue:
Sasaki Kojiro
04-14-2010, 04:50
or more likely your vote will get lost in the bandwagon of the network :tongue:
That's why you have to be persuasive :beam:
Besides, if you push a wagon on scum and the network wagon overrides it, later you can say "I told you he was scum, but all you guys with all the information you had couldn't figure it out..."
atheotes
04-14-2010, 05:07
That's why you have to be persuasive :beam:
Besides, if you push a wagon on scum and the network wagon overrides it, later you can say "I told you he was scum, but all you guys with all the information you had couldn't figure it out..."
It is difficult to be persuasive when people think you are scum or when trying to reverse a bandwagon on you :laugh4:
i told you Captain Blackadder was scum.... but all you guys with all the information you had couldn't figure it out...till the next round :clown:
Captain Blackadder
04-14-2010, 05:52
Statement: I also use the force whenever necessary, meatbag. It pleases me greatly.
Yes it is something that many of us jedi fail to head. We fail to use our powers for the good of the galaxy. We sat and debated when action was called for and that is why we were defeated. I fought in the rebellion and it cost me much of myself almost too much but at the least I did something
Advisement: Is saying that such a good idea, meatbag? After all, saying that to an assassin droid does not appear to be the best of ideas.
Evasion: Err. I mean a protocol droid, meatbag. Ignore my last advisement.
His eye glistens as it whirs and moves to look upon the droid. I would easily defeat you your desgin is primative and my shield technology is far better then any weapon you may have
I bet no one has noticed that Blackadder's avatar actually looks like Rowan Atkinson.
atheotes
04-14-2010, 06:06
I bet no one has noticed that Blackadder's avatar actually looks like Rowan Atkinson.
I did... i thought that must be the reason he chose to use it.
a completely inoffensive name
04-14-2010, 07:00
Mafia games would be perfect if there was no network. I'll never join a network, and because of it I never have any info. Once I get chosen for a mafia role and im put in a position of info, I will wreck **** up. But in this game, Im again a simple townie, so it looks like another game of being in the dark while the big shots make the calls and have the rest of us die.
The key factor within this game is whether the names of characters have any significance on the abilities. For example, I'm only a minor character who only appears in the literature of Star Wars, and accordingly, I'm a vannila townie. The fact that Count Dooku rather than Count Joe Bloggs is the expedition leader indicates that the personas of the charcaters we are playing as are the deciding factor in determining our abilities.
Mafia games would be perfect if there was no network. I'll never join a network, and because of it I never have any info. Once I get chosen for a mafia role and im put in a position of info, I will wreck **** up. But in this game, Im again a simple townie, so it looks like another game of being in the dark while the big shots make the calls and have the rest of us die.
Hear hear! Once more into the meat grinder, fellow townies!
Yes it is something that many of us jedi fail to head. We fail to use our powers for the good of the galaxy. We sat and debated when action was called for and that is why we were defeated. I fought in the rebellion and it cost me much of myself almost too much but at the least I did something
Statement: That would be why blasting first and talking later is the best method of action, meatbag.
I would easily defeat you your desgin is primative and my shield technology is far better then any weapon you may have
Doubting: I find your claims extremely unlikely, meatbag.
Advisement: It is suggested you start running as my blaster warms up.
Slight difference here. CA was the only two-lynch example, true. But in the post you quoted, I was mostly referencing those who were in trouble early on, survived the initial attempt to lynch them, and then faded back into the background only to reemerge in the endgame and kill everybody. Assuming the Beskar/CA analogy is correct, then I'd equate "getting lynched once but dodging the second one" with "dodging the first lynch" for everybody else. Surely I don't need to cite all of those examples.
True. All I can say to that is that at least I will not forget about Beskar. If you have concerns about him later and no one else cares, talk to me and I will listen.
I remember my first real mafia game, Rubicon. I became mafia midway through the game and had to try to survive against what I believe was a well developed network. I may be wrong, at the time I was new and the townies seemed incredibly well coordinated, it was a lot of fun trying to outwit them even though I failed miserably. I have been in games though were there is a townie network and been neither mafia nor part of the network, that can be pretty dull.
To be fair, that was a flaw in Rubicon itself. I did not anticipate groups being used in that manner, but it was legal. I will never use a system like that again for that reason.
The fact that Count Dooku rather than Count Joe Bloggs is the expedition leader
Dooku is not the expedition leader, I believe the first story indicates who that person is pretty clearly:
A small man comes down the gangplank and starts ordering you party about.
Captain Blackadder
04-14-2010, 12:56
I bet no one has noticed that Blackadder's avatar actually looks like Rowan Atkinson.
Indeed that is the reason I choose it.
Yaropolk
04-14-2010, 13:05
Agreement: That thought did also cross my mind too, meatbag. Would you like to kill him sooner so that we don't waste more lynches with him?
Let the anger out!
Ibn-Khaldun
04-14-2010, 14:14
Expedition leader is Yoda(a small man)?
Winston Hughes
04-14-2010, 14:15
Are networks not an inevitable side effect of having town roles in a game? If you really want to avoid them the easy solution would be to play every game in the basic mafia format, where only the scum get roles.
As a permanently baffled, powerless townie (11 games and counting) you might expect me to prefer that option. But I don't, mainly because it reduces the game to little more than metagame speculation and random voting - fun once in a while, but not something I'd keep coming back to game after game. The existence of unknown town roles and the possibility of networks forming behind the scenes provides an intriguing subtext for the in-thread discussions, even if I never get to participate in the backstage action.
As I said in the wake of a network-heavy game over at CFC, afaik the real problems relate to a network's publicity and reliability (ie. how widely known the reasons for trust are, and how likely it is that the trust is misplaced).
In this case, Beskar's reason for claiming our trust could not be more public, but what chance is there that the trust would be misplaced? If there's a good chance that placing trust in him could be a mistake, then it's up to people's own choices as to whether to accede to his demand for info - on such decisions are games decided. If, on the other hand, it seems that there is little chance that placing trust in him could be a mistake then the fault lies with the game itself. Personally, being no less baffled than usual about the game mechanics here, I don't see that his surviving a lynch is any reason to trust him, so I'll be keeping my info to myself.
Are networks not an inevitable side effect of having town roles in a game? If you really want to avoid them the easy solution would be to play every game in the basic mafia format, where only the scum get roles.
They are not inevitable, but I agree that they are certainly likely to occur when there are pro-town roles. They become more common the more roles there are that can do night actions, and become almost a certainty when every single role (including the basic townie) can do something at night. That doesn't mean they're good for the town though.
As I said in the wake of a network-heavy game over at CFC, afaik the real problems relate to a network's publicity and reliability (ie. how widely known the reasons for trust are, and how likely it is that the trust is misplaced).
Even in extremely complex games, mafia still basically remains the uninformed majority versus the informed minority. It is always to the town's benefit to have as much information publicly available as possible, because that increases the number of eyeballs and brains cranking through the evidence. That's why the mass-role reveal is so abhorrant... unless precautions are taken by the host, it totally ruins the entire premise of the uninformed majority by spilling all info into the thread simultaneously. That's the absolute extreme of public disclosure of information.
Networks can work, and there are plenty of examples of it happening. There are often times very good reasons for using small networks, such as a detective using someone he's cleared as a mouthpiece to post his results. However, the bigger the network and the more complex the game, the greater the likelihood that the network will be infiltrated by the mafia. An infiltrated network actively works against the town, so it's not a casual threat. Infiltrated networks give two huge advantages to the mafia: (1) a much greater amount of information about other roles and planned night actions than they would normally have, and (2) the ability to influence the town's lynch and night actions in ways that benefit the mafia. There are even risks in non-infiltrated networks. Most networks tend to turn into hierarchical systems, with one or two people at the top with the most information making most of the decisions. However, those people are not infallible... if they make bad choices, they can lead the town in the wrong direction and the lack of transparency prevents the other townies from correcting the errors. In addition, a strong, publicly known network tends to make regular townies lazy. When there is an active leadership taking charge of hunting the mafia, many people will simply follow along without question. This actively dissuades people from trying to figure out the game on their own, which increases the likelihood that evidence of scum or errors by the network will be missed.
So, the key for the town is to keep the networks large enough to keep the pro-town roles safe and productive, while at the same time small enough to minimize the potential damage from an erroneous leadership or infiltration. It's a fine line to walk, and I personally think it's safer to err on the side of smaller networks with as much transparency as possible, even if it decreases the effectiveness of pro-town roles.
I'll suggest that further discussion of this be moved to a separate mafia game theory thread to prevent distraction from the game.
Kagemusha
04-14-2010, 17:57
So let me put it short.So far in the game some dirt back offed Husar in first night.Then Beskar claims he is count Dooku and wants the town to rally by him? Last we are talking if there should be a townie network in this game and mass reveals? As far as i understand atleast i cant do anything during nights.So whats the point of revealing my role to some third party and giving up my vote also? If there are pro town roles in this game.I invite them to scan me and then contact me. Otherwise i have no intention giving my will to hands of others.Specially if i dont have a clue what they are.
atheotes
04-14-2010, 18:23
I am actually more interested in some of the claims Beskar has made...
He has claimed to have helped the town...he says he can investigate or vig kill... he has asked for protection.... he has asked to be cleared by other investigator(s).
He seems to possess more knowledge about the game than any of us....hmm...
Or at least hes making us think he does.
If Beskar going investigation = staying innocent & him doing vigilante = turning to mafia, I wouldn't trust him at all.
If things look poor for town he could just turn and that is it, but I guess his fate is out of our hands, in the day anyway...
If Beskar going investigation = staying innocent & him doing vigilante = turning to mafia, I wouldn't trust him at all.
If things look poor for town he could just turn and that is it, but I guess his fate is out of our hands, in the day anyway...
It doesn't work like that.
If I went and killed some one, this makes me suspectible to conversation. Then once I get converted, I become a Sith. This makes me think there is the Sith "rule of two (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rule_of_Two)" going on. Which would imply a Sith has to die anyway.
Also, me telling you this is very benefitical to the town. This means, anyone who is claiming to be a "vigilent" and a town "zomg, I used a blue saber, I r Jedi", the town instantly knows they are now convertable and a mafia suspect.
Also, I suspect there are only 2 powerful pro-town.
Somewhere else on the ship two Jedi Masters woke up with a start. They had felt a change in their very being. Something was calling to them. They immediately started meditating to calm their startled emotions. A presence filled them with great joy and peace and the calling had them leave their quarters to a special room…
I was one of those Jedi Masters, which is what saved me from the lynches.
atheotes
04-14-2010, 22:03
Also, I suspect there are only 2 powerful pro-town.
Somewhere else on the ship two Jedi Masters woke up with a start. They had felt a change in their very being. Something was calling to them. They immediately started meditating to calm their startled emotions. A presence filled them with great joy and peace and the calling had them leave their quarters to a special room…
I was one of those Jedi Masters, which is what saved me from the lynches.
Now that is very useful information (I will of course take it with a pinch of salt). Dont you think these 2 plus the leader make it 3 power roles...no?
are you claiming that you got your role first and then you were given an update?
are you claiming that you got your role first and then you were given an update?
Yes. By the reading of the message i got, i would have got 1 ability, however, as due to this force thing, I was super-upgraded which gave me the lynch immunity as one of the powers. There is one other person like me, who got their multiple abilties opposed to one.
This means all those who were pro-town only got their abilities last night, and didn't do any actions on the first night. (Any who did are probably lying)
atheotes
04-14-2010, 22:25
This means all those who were pro-town only got their abilities last night, and didn't do any actions on the first night. (Any who did are probably lying)
That is an assumption.
you say you would have gotten only 1 ability but got more than 1 because of the Force? hmm...
Round 2
Day
The Search of this mile long capital class monstrosity was slow business for a reduced 40 member crew.
But great leadership by the visitor from Coruscant got the crew to work methodically and efficient. They discovered that this capital ship had a full armament of Star Destroyer regular weaponry, fighters, bombers, shuttles, transports and other smaller crafts. The Star Destroyer also had the full complement armament with AT-AT walkers, AT-ST walkers and other prefabricated land units and equipment.
It was also stacked with foodstuff that grew in artificial greenhouses, but centuries of neglect had made them wildernesses where the food plants had been overcome by weed. There was however some edible stuff in those gardens.
The expedition leader was however most concerned by getting the massive power plant back online. In the centuries this ship had drifted through space with only a fraction of the power it needed, The main reactor – the I-a2b Solar Ionization reactor or commonly called a “mini sun” had not received sufficient fuel and had nearly died. It was a sick puppy.
When the expedition leader had discovered this, he had ordered the fuel feeders to be slowly re-opened to hinder a great surge of power from the mini sun that would fry the power lines and possibly the reactor itself. The mini sun was now sucking hypermatter from the fuel tanks and grew in strength every day.
They would have to make a hyperspace jump as soon as the power plant was healthy enough. The long years in cold space had made the hypermatter a bad quality grade fuel. In hyperspace the ship will replenish its fuel with top quality grade hypermatter.
After a long day’s work the Jedi members were exhausted and needed rest. The expedition leader was worried about tonight as he was confident that they had been infiltrated by someone. He had a bad feeling about the incidents last night. What this infiltration was all about was not clear to him, but he suspected the culprits to be a part of the team that had arrived with him. There were no lifeforms on this ship before they boarded and the lifeform count was still 38 the last time he checked.
He sat down on the floor of his cabin and found the peace of meditation. He reached out and found the presence which had accompanied him for so many years, but only since last night had been willing to be touched. There was a familiar sense in his very being as if he had waited so long for this presence to be joined with him. But what had triggered this change? Had it to do with something on this ship or this location in space?
Somewhere else 2 other members of the Jedi expedition force were also meditating.
They had started their usual routine, but were suddenly overcome with peace and elevation as a presence surged into their very being. They heard a call from somewhere and followed the directions they received. The directions led to a special storage area.
The Padawan known as Daye Azur-Jamin was tired and moved towards his cabin. As he rounded a corner in one of the long, dark and empty hallways of the crew quarters, he saw someone waiting, standing in the middle of the hallway. The features of this person were hidden in a long and hooded cloak and the darkness helped conceal the gender.
Daye asked: “Um.. can I help you with something? Are you lost in this labyrinth of hallways? “
The person had apparently stood there with a bent head, because suddenly, two amber glowing eyes looked up and directly at him.
“Yes.. there is one thing you can help me with.”
Daye felt a surge of panic when he saw the glowing eyes, but answered anyway. *gulp* “W..hat c..can I do for you?” The cloaked person with the glowing eyes reached out with his arm and said: “Die!!!!”
Daye felt the air being forced out of his lungs and he could no longer draw breath. He couldn’t cry out and felt darkness enveloping him.
Elswere the Padawan known as Galleros Nul were making way to his cabin and was suddenly attacked by a person in a hooded cloak. The cloaked person had hidden in a hallway wall depression and Galleros had just walked by without noticing. Galleros were surprised seeing a red glowing plasma beam sticking out of his chest. It took only a moment and then darkness enveloped him. The last thing he heard was a snickering sound from the cloaked person behind him.
It was time for the rest to end and continue their work on this Star Destroyer.
People emerged from their cabins and gathered at the auditorium as was instructed by the expedition leader. After last night everyone was required to attend a brief meeting here in the auditorium at the start of the day’s work.
There were only 36 of them this morning. The expedition leader sent out a few Jedi Knights to fetch these sleepy heads. They soon returned with worried looks on their faces. The two Padawans had been found dead close to their cabins, One with a lightsabre wound in his back and the other with no apparent injuries.
The expedition leader sniffed. “We have been infiltrated by one or more traitors. We need to repeat the meeting we had yesterday. Find me this traitor and deliver him to me - I will be back soon to collect him or her."
As he left the auditorium, he felt panic. The sudden connection with what could only be what had been known as the force in the ancient Jedi religion and 4 murders among the expedition crew, was unsettling. Could it be…? No… that was just ancient superstitious drivel.
He had just rounded the first corner in the direction of his cabin, when he remembered something that had struck him when learning about the deaths of the two Padawans. He immediatly returned to the auditorium, as he entered he announced: "Oh and for your information, it has been decided that the initiates Galen Marek and Barrison Dray will be promoted to Padawans with immediate effect. Congratulations!!"
With those words he turned around and left the auditorium.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I expect you to find a candidate to lynch before midnight (00:00 GMT+1) tomorrow the 15th of april.
Killed:
Beefy187
Husar
Captain Blackadder
Khazaar
Alive:
ACIN
Andres
Askthepizzaguy
atheotes
autolycus
AVSM
Belisarius II
Beskar
Centurion1
Chaotix
Csargo
Diamondeye
Diana Abnoba
GeneralHankerchief
Greyblades
Ibn-Khaldun
johnhughthom
Jolt
Joooray
Kagemusha
Lord Winter
Methos
Niklas
pevergreen
Psychonaut
Renata
Sasaki Kojiro
Secura
Subotan
TheFlax
Thermal Mercury
TinCow
White_eyes:D
Winston Hughes
Yaropolk
Yaseikhaan
Captain Blackadder
04-15-2010, 00:03
Dang it I know I shoudn't have roleplayed oh well it was a good game while I was in it.
Interesting, it looks like more people have explored the force, three people infact (including Expedition leader). They should have gained more abilities.
GeneralHankerchief
04-15-2010, 00:17
Vote: Beskar
I am sick of your nonsense now. You are purposefully trying to side-track the town.
Vote: GeneralHankerchief
Kagemusha
04-15-2010, 00:22
I dont think we need unlynchable characters so vote: Beskar
I am sick of your nonsense now. You are purposefully trying to side-track the town.
Vote: GeneralHankerchief
If you're such the big pro-town role you claim you are, why are you doing an OMGUS vote? Especially if you are unlycnhable as you claim. As for sidetracking the town, you are doing a wonderful job of it by focalizing all the discussion on your role. You claimed you could investigate IIRC, tell us something useful.
Askthepizzaguy
04-15-2010, 00:28
Vote: Generalhankerchief
Sasaki Kojiro
04-15-2010, 00:33
Vote:askthepizzaguy
A bit quiet wasn't that?
I don't like this anti-Beskar sentiment, both as a friend and as a player.
Why all the hate?
Winston Hughes
04-15-2010, 00:36
I'm gonna vote: White_eyes:D again.
I don't like this anti-Beskar sentiment, both as a friend and as a player.
Why all the hate?
Let the hate consume you, feels good.
I don't like this anti-Beskar sentiment, both as a friend and as a player.
Why all the hate?
I take it this is directed at me? If so, I'm not anti-Beskar, I consider him a friend. I don't approve of the votes against him this round, but found his reply to them even more lacking if he's telling the truth about his role.
I'm gonna vote: White_eyes:D again.
And I'll vote TinCow again. Though I think Winston's is a solid vote.
vote:TinCow
Askthepizzaguy
04-15-2010, 00:46
I don't like this anti-Beskar sentiment, both as a friend and as a player.
Why all the hate?
Be very careful Secura, anyone in the game is a fair target for criticism. If you feel so strongly about Beskar, it may not be wise to sign up for games with him in those games.
The other players are both allowed to and may be required to target him. I don't see anything specificially anti-Beskar here, just folks who are anti-town network and anti-unlynchable role.
I strongly disagree with Beskar's lynch but he is fair game, my friend. It's why when others target Diana, I say nothing. She's just another player.
Lynching Beskar is a bad idea right now. He has skills to assist us, and I'm sure the other pro-town roles have been keeping an eye on him.
That said, GH is most likely just acting out of a rational concern, given past games. He's trying to get Beskar lynched because he genuinely thinks he is guilty, and as such GH is also a bad lynch.
A good lynch is something hard to come by. Vote: white_eyes.
Vote is subject to change without notice.
I take it this is directed at me? If so, I'm not anti-Beskar, I consider him a friend. I don't approve of the votes against him this round, but found his reply to them even more lacking if he's telling the truth about his role.
Nope, it's directed at the many people who've been chastising him, that's all. I don't feel lynching a powerful role is in the best interests of the town currently.
I don't see anything specificially anti-Beskar here, just folks who are anti-town network and anti-unlynchable role.
I'm just struggling to see the problems with it, I suppose... one of those days where nothing's going in.
I strongly disagree with Beskar's lynch but he is fair game, my friend. It's why when others target Diana, I say nothing. She's just another player.
I actually agree that he is fair game, everybody is at this point, but this simply feels like a wasted lynch; people seem to want to kill him based on his character's name and the possibility that he may turn to the Dark Side, which by all accounts is only possible if he starts vig-killing, which he has stated isn't in his best interests. I believe we can be assured that the second Jedi Master and the envoy himself will have a close eye on him anyway.
If I had been town in Shadow Fort, I'd have been annoyed to be a powerless traveller and had the entire game pass me by because of bad decisions with lynches and night kills. As an equally powerless role in this game, I do not want the same mistake to be made with lynches.
Greyblades
04-15-2010, 01:15
I should probably apologise for missing the first two turns :sweatdrop: I was kinda distracted.
Anyway, I dont think beskar is a good lynch, mainly because I dont like the idea of wasting another day on a guy who can survive being in a vaccum.
Sasaki Kojiro
04-15-2010, 01:19
Pizza, since you just won a game as mafia, where no one suspected you until everyone else was cleared by process of elimination, do you think there's a high chance of the town panicking and lynching you later in the game? If so, don't you think it's better for you to take the lynch now, since it's less damaging and the town is a bit directionless right now.
Askthepizzaguy
04-15-2010, 01:22
Pizza, since you just won a game as mafia, where no one suspected you until everyone else was cleared by process of elimination, do you think there's a high chance of the town panicking and lynching you later in the game? If so, don't you think it's better for you to take the lynch now, since it's less damaging and the town is a bit directionless right now.
Yes, I may be lynched this round as a default.
I came dangerously close to being a distraction in the Generalhankerchief game because (A) I was still alive late in the game and (B) the writeups implicated me.
However, I am also a lousy lynch. Beskar, since he can survive the lynch, is a better lynch. You'll do fine without me, but I'm not a totally lame character either.
Sasaki Kojiro
04-15-2010, 01:30
You would rather beskar was lynched.
johnhughthom
04-15-2010, 01:46
I don't think Beskar is a good lynch, he revealed to me before he went public in thread and he came across as genuinely excited about his role in this game. Beskar seems to enjoy powerful pro-town roles more than scum so I think he is pretty much telling the truth.
Askthepizzaguy
04-15-2010, 01:49
@Sasaki-
If he's being honest, he survives again. There's no loss except time... but the murders give us something to analyze and we aren't shooting ourselves in the foot in the process.
If he's being dishonest, then he dies, and is probably mafia. Win/win.
But the best move of all is to lynch a scum. So we could do a blind lynch and try to find one.
I notice you're making a very specific play to get me lynched, though, because you know as a townie I will allow myself to be lynched to prove myself, because I am stupid like that. It smells very suspiciously like Sasaki Kojiro asking me to destroy myself for the "good of the town" while he sneaks past another round.
You'd make the best lynch of all, on reflection.
unvote, vote: Sasaki
Sasaki Kojiro
04-15-2010, 01:53
No. I'm testing you out. You started off with the roleplay, then you posted a vote with no reasoning and skipped over my vote on you. Since you've offered yourself up for lynch in multiple games it makes a good cross comparison.
You are acting more restrained than you usually do as town. Restraint is a scum tell for pizza :yes:
Askthepizzaguy
04-15-2010, 01:55
No. I'm testing you out. You started off with the roleplay, then you posted a vote with no reasoning and skipped over my vote on you. Since you've offered yourself up for lynch in multiple games it makes a good cross comparison.
You are acting more restrained than you usually do as town. Restraint is a scum tell for pizza :yes:
I have not offered myself as a lynch in ages (as a townie). Get with the times, scumbag. :wink:
GeneralHankerchief
04-15-2010, 01:57
I don't like this anti-Beskar sentiment, both as a friend and as a player.
Why all the hate?
To be clear: I have nothing against Beskar as a person. My vote(s) for him were strictly for game reasons. I do not need to reiterate my feelings about the pro-town networks, especially in Sigurd's game.
-edit- I also highly doubt that such an overpowered role as his would generate valid investigation results immediately. If anything, he's probably immune to investigations.
Something's very strange in this conversation. What's not being said?
(That's referring to Sasaki and Pizza.)
Askthepizzaguy
04-15-2010, 01:58
Something's very strange in this conversation. What's not being said?
Well, I was about to say this, but you just said it, so it's been said.
And now, I've said that. That should cover the bases.
Sasaki Kojiro
04-15-2010, 01:59
I have not offered myself as a lynch in ages (as a townie). Get with the times, scumbag. :wink:
Guess the game:
Lynch me. I want to see who would vote for me.
unvote, vote: Askthepizzaguy
:mellow:
immaterial in any case, since I was looking for reaction, not whether you would offer yourself up for lynch
GeneralHankerchief
04-15-2010, 02:00
Pizza, you said last round that this idea of a network was a very bad idea and this was coming from you. Why the sudden switch?
Askthepizzaguy
04-15-2010, 02:02
Pizza, you said last round that this idea of a network was a very bad idea and this was coming from you. Why the sudden switch?
There's no switch.
I said people shouldn't reveal to Beskar, and I said that over and over when people still did it.
That said, I think that Beskar is a wasted lynch. Much better is Sasaki.
@Sasaki-
If he's being honest, he survives again. There's no loss except time... but the murders give us something to analyze and we aren't shooting ourselves in the foot in the process.
If he's being dishonest, then he dies, and is probably mafia. Win/win.
But the best move of all is to lynch a scum. So we could do a blind lynch and try to find one.
I notice you're making a very specific play to get me lynched, though, because you know as a townie I will allow myself to be lynched to prove myself, because I am stupid like that. It smells very suspiciously like Sasaki Kojiro asking me to destroy myself for the "good of the town" while he sneaks past another round.
You'd make the best lynch of all, on reflection.
unvote, vote: Sasaki
Why so serious?
In fact, you are BOTH far too serious for Round 2. At this point, Sasaki should be cracking wise and bandwagoning, and ATPG is trying to get Sasaki lynched, which he would never attempt seriously.
This argument seems awfully contrived. FoS: Both of you.
Now, I'm going to unvote, Vote: Diana Abnoba, because the name appealed to me when I looked at the list. And we're going to get her to be active and defend herself.
Askthepizzaguy
04-15-2010, 02:03
Guess the game:
Oops. I must suffer from can't remember **** syndrome.
You still must die, however.
Sasaki Kojiro
04-15-2010, 02:04
Something's very strange in this conversation. What's not being said?
(That's referring to Sasaki and Pizza.)
I'm just testing him out...the strangeness is all from his end.
What it sounds like to me is that he was happy about something, and then my "would you agree that lynching you is a good move" question was a huge buzzkill. However his posts:
Vote: Generalhankerchief
Be very careful Secura, anyone in the game is a fair target for criticism. If you feel so strongly about Beskar, it may not be wise to sign up for games with him in those games.
The other players are both allowed to and may be required to target him. I don't see anything specificially anti-Beskar here, just folks who are anti-town network and anti-unlynchable role.
I strongly disagree with Beskar's lynch but he is fair game, my friend. It's why when others target Diana, I say nothing. She's just another player.
Didn't sound particularly excited to be scumhunting. So was he happy because he drew a mafia role?
Askthepizzaguy
04-15-2010, 02:06
I'm just testing him out...the strangeness is all from his end.
Die, meatbag! :furious3:
Why so serious?
In fact, you are BOTH far too serious for Round 2. At this point, Sasaki should be cracking wise and bandwagoning, and ATPG is trying to get Sasaki lynched, which he would never attempt seriously.
This argument seems awfully contrived. FoS: Both of you.
Now, I'm going to unvote, Vote: Diana Abnoba, because the name appealed to me when I looked at the list. And we're going to get her to be active and defend herself.
Thank you Chaotix, that's exactly what I couldn't put into words. And I echo the sentiment. Something's wrong here.
unvote, vote: Askthepizzaguy
GeneralHankerchief
04-15-2010, 02:06
Die, meatbag! :furious3:
Instead of repeated posts consisting of nothing more than demands that Sasaki could die, could you re-iterate why?
Pro-tip: ATPG and Sasaki are, in actuality, mafia partners.
GeneralHankerchief
04-15-2010, 02:08
Pro-tip: ATPG and Sasaki are, in actuality, mafia partners.
Probably not, if this were the case they wouldn't go after each other this hard this early. I'd expect more of a slow burn with the "showdown" coming in the late midgame/endgame.
And if it kept the other from being investigated? I don't know. Depends what else the team might have up its sleeve, maybe.
Askthepizzaguy
04-15-2010, 02:11
Instead of repeated posts consisting of nothing more than demands that Sasaki could die, could you re-iterate why?
There's nothing scummier than Sasaki asking me to lynch myself.
First of all, you have component A, Sasaki Kojiro, which already makes it among the scummiest things imaginable.
Then, you have him suggesting that a player lynches himself, which is component B, WIFOM, also known as scummy to the factor of scummy.
Finally, you have component C, Askthepizzaguy. And so we have a trifecta of scumminess.
It's the three scummiest concepts in the universe converging, and it's all coming straight from Sasaki. He's clearly as guilty as sin.
GeneralHankerchief
04-15-2010, 02:13
There's nothing scummier than Sasaki asking me to lynch myself.
First of all, you have component A, Sasaki Kojiro, which already makes it among the scummiest things imaginable.
Then, you have him suggesting that a player lynches himself, which is component B, WIFOM, also known as scummy to the factor of scummy.
Finally, you have component C, Askthepizzaguy. And so we have a trifecta of scumminess.
It's the three scummiest concepts in the universe converging, and it's all coming straight from Sasaki. He's clearly as guilty as sin.
I hope you're joking. :inquisitive:
Sasaki Kojiro
04-15-2010, 02:14
I hope you're joking. :inquisitive:
He's trying to...
Askthepizzaguy
04-15-2010, 02:14
I hope you're joking. :inquisitive:
No, I'm dead serious. Sasaki is the Sith Lord. He told me so himself.
In fact, you are BOTH far too serious for Round 2. At this point, Sasaki should be cracking wise and bandwagoning, and ATPG is trying to get Sasaki lynched, which he would never attempt seriously.
In all honesty it feels like they are testing the waters. I say: Jump in its balmy. :wacko:
You claimed you could investigate IIRC, tell us something useful.
Aye. Prove it Beskie, prove it.
GeneralHankerchief
04-15-2010, 02:16
No, I'm dead serious. Sasaki is the Sith Lord. He told me so himself.
How about you drop the act, be productive for a change in this round, and tell me what you really think?
Probably not, if this were the case they wouldn't go after each other this hard this early. I'd expect more of a slow burn with the "showdown" coming in the late midgame/endgame.
Ah, but that's what they want you to believe. If they're mafia, they'll attempt to do what you wouldn't expect from such a pair.
ATPG is continuing to advocate his weak, throwaway case on Sasaki, and Sasaki is trying to play off his own accusations as a "test". Now they realize how much they just brought themselves into the spotlight.
Askthepizzaguy
04-15-2010, 02:20
How about you drop the act, be productive for a change in this round, and tell me what you really think?
I was originally very serious. Sasaki "feeling me out" felt like an act to me.
First, he suggests that I might be a good lynch this round, given stuff that happened in other games (:laugh: by the way. Best reasoning EVER)
Next, me being me, I would probably agree.
Then, it's open season on ATPG because "ATPG would vote himself as scum, he's done it many times. He's obviously scum now"
Meanwhile Sasaki disappears into the sunset, hand in hand with Generalhankerchief. And just as the camera fades away, they plant a delicate kiss on each other. Awww how romantic.
You're all a bunch of Sith Lords! And I refuse to be serious when you guys are taking me so seriously.
Why aren't you voting for one of them, Chaotix? I mean, a FOS is all well and good, but when it comes down to it it's just a toothless abbreviation.
I was originally very serious. Sasaki "feeling me out" felt like an act to me.
First, he suggests that I might be a good lynch this round, given stuff that happened in other games (:laugh: by the way. Best reasoning EVER)
Next, me being me, I would probably agree.
Then, it's open season on ATPG because "ATPG would vote himself as scum, he's done it many times. He's obviously scum now"
Meanwhile Sasaki disappears into the sunset, hand in hand with Generalhankerchief. And just as the camera fades away, they plant a delicate kiss on each other. Awww how romantic.
You're all a bunch of Sith Lords! And I refuse to be serious when you guys are taking me so seriously.
That's OK ATPG, I promise I'll vote Sasaki next.
Askthepizzaguy
04-15-2010, 02:22
That's OK ATPG, I promise I'll vote Sasaki next.
Every time you vote Sasaki an angel gets its wings.
GeneralHankerchief
04-15-2010, 02:22
I was originally very serious. Sasaki "feeling me out" felt like an act to me.
First, he suggests that I might be a good lynch this round, given stuff that happened in other games (:laugh: by the way. Best reasoning EVER)
Next, me being me, I would probably agree.
Then, it's open season on ATPG because "ATPG would vote himself as scum, he's done it many times. He's obviously scum now"
Meanwhile Sasaki disappears into the sunset, hand in hand with Generalhankerchief. And just as the camera fades away, they plant a delicate kiss on each other. Awww how romantic.
You're all a bunch of Sith Lords! And I refuse to be serious when you guys are taking me so seriously.
Okay, so explain to me where on down the line it turned from "serious" to "let's muddle up the thread with this continuation".
Askthepizzaguy
04-15-2010, 02:24
You are acting more restrained than you usually do as town. Restraint is a scum tell for pizza :yes:
Right about here....
I love disproving bad theories, screw the game. I like being right.
Why aren't you voting for one of them, Chaotix? I mean, a FOS is all well and good, but when it comes down to it it's just a toothless abbreviation.
He seems quietly restive. I say we lynch him.
seireikhaan
04-15-2010, 02:34
Once more, my general hath shown me the direction.
Vote: Beskar
Sasaki Kojiro
04-15-2010, 02:34
It's possible that pizza is just a townie annoyed at being asked to lynch himself or just "loves disproving bad theories" as he says. But the odds of him having an important mafia role and disliking a sasaki wagon starter is high enough to worth lynching on.
He could be a pro town role :shrug:
But you can't worry about that kind of thing in these situations, and it seems like there are hardly any of them, with beskar being one, and the guy who contacted him (presumably not pizza given what he said) being another, that cuts down on the odds a lot.
Winston Hughes
04-15-2010, 02:36
screw the game. I like being right.
Should we put it to the test, then?
vote: Askthepizzaguy
Two more of whatever-it-was this morning, just saying. Not that it's stopping me.
Askthepizzaguy
04-15-2010, 02:43
He could be a pro town role :shrug:
No. This is a dreadful waste of a round, but you won't cripple yourselves.
I can also explain this bandwagon on me: It is a direct backlash for the Shadow Fort game. Whatever makes you feel better, guys. :grin:
You'd like it to be that simple, but despite that I have made a conscious decision to ditch my CFC induced habits of not voting for high-profile players on mere suspicion, there truly is something off about your interaction with Sasaki.
Askthepizzaguy
04-15-2010, 02:51
You'd like it to be that simple, but despite that I have made a conscious decision to ditch my CFC induced habits of not voting for high-profile players on mere suspicion, there truly is something off about your interaction with Sasaki.
No, it is that simple. You can't even explain what is "off". But I can tell I won't be changing your mind today, it is made up and based on absolutely nothing.
But, if you guys think I will go down quietly, I promise I both will not shut up until I am dead or the wagon goes away, and that I'll be intentionally distracting all round so nothing else gets done.
Sasaki Kojiro
04-15-2010, 02:52
Obviously I decided to take a look at you largely because you evaded detection in the shadow fort...I said as much earlier, so don't try and pass that off as a dismissal of the whole wagon. The question is, why does your response to praise look like this?
It's obvious that you don't truly believe what you said about "sasaki proposing this to get me lynched", that looks more like a hastily constructed rebuttal. And when pushed on it you tried to joke your way out.
Askthepizzaguy
04-15-2010, 02:56
Obviously I decided to take a look at you largely because you evaded detection in the shadow fort...I said as much earlier, so don't try and pass that off as a dismissal of the whole wagon. The question is, why does your response to praise look like this?
No I am looking at Renata mostly for that.
I don't mind the "praise" if you can call it that, I mind being lynched when I am innocent.
It's obvious that you don't truly believe what you said about "sasaki proposing this to get me lynched", that looks more like a hastily constructed rebuttal. And when pushed on it you tried to joke your way out.
Yes, yes I do truly believe that. You are one who easily deceives, and the innocent-sounding "would you lynch yourself, pizza?" is exactly the kind of tactic I expect from you. And the best part is, no one will call you on it because it sounds absolutely like typical Sasaki behavior. I'll call you on it, but I'll get ignored because I'm the scummy one here.
That said, I can step outside myself and see I'm not winning anyone's favor with my current chosen form of resistance. But I refuse to beg, I'd prefer to pester.
Winston Hughes
04-15-2010, 03:00
I mind being lynched when I am innocent.
As I recall, you're not that keen on being lynched when you're guilty, either.
No, it is that simple. You can't even explain what is "off". But I can tell I won't be changing your mind today, it is made up and based on absolutely nothing.
But, if you guys think I will go down quietly, I promise I both will not shut up until I am dead or the wagon goes away, and that I'll be intentionally distracting all round so nothing else gets done.
It's exactly what Chaotix said. It looks like a set-up for something. Sasaki's question was out of the blue and weird, and your responses were unexpectedly self-conscious. I don't have to be able to put it in words to be right that something is wrong there.
And you're going to punish townies for suspecting you? How productive is that?
By the way who told you what Beskar's role was prior to his public reveal?
It's possible that pizza is just a townie annoyed at being asked to lynch himself or just "loves disproving bad theories" as he says. But the odds of him having an important mafia role and disliking a sasaki wagon starter is high enough to worth lynching on.
He could be a pro town role :shrug:
But you can't worry about that kind of thing in these situations, and it seems like there are hardly any of them, with beskar being one, and the guy who contacted him (presumably not pizza given what he said) being another, that cuts down on the odds a lot.
So, basically you've got nothing from all of that?
(And just as an aside about Shadow Fort, ATPG, you know and I know that I'm still irritated with how you played me in that game. And you know and I know that I promised you ahead of time, before this game ever started, that I would give you much less rope in the future. But if you want to extend that to my behavior in who I choose to vote for, you're doing me a dis-service. I hope you know that and this is deliberate misdirection.)
Askthepizzaguy
04-15-2010, 03:08
It's exactly what Chaotix said. It looks like a set-up for something. Sasaki's question was out of the blue and weird, and your responses were unexpectedly self-conscious. I don't have to be able to put it in words to be right that something is wrong there.
It's a patently ridiculous theory, and beneath you as a player. :sad:
I would not play public games with Sasaki, this early, on a round where people are desperate to lynch anything that moves. It's a stupid tactic.
I agree that sasaki's question is out of the blue and weird. That's why it's scummy. My response is precisely what you'd expect here.... I'm going to lynch anything that moves. Turns out I moved in the process.
And you're going to punish townies for suspecting you? How productive is that?
If I manage to persuade you against lynching me, it's EXTREMELY productive.
By the way who told you what Beskar's role was prior to his public reveal?
I won't reveal that to you. Beskar knows where his leak is.
autolycus
04-15-2010, 03:09
I don't think Sasaki's logic holds with respect to Atpg being bad, but I don't think it's scummy behavior on his part. I was considering this vote yesterday, and with no new leads will return to it. vote:white_eyes.
Sasaki Kojiro
04-15-2010, 03:09
So, basically you've got nothing from all of that?
No...in the post you quoted I explored the possibilities and concluded that it was a good idea to lynch him.
It's a patently ridiculous theory, and beneath you as a player. :sad:
I would not play public games with Sasaki, this early, on a round where people are desperate to lynch anything that moves. It's a stupid tactic.
You yourself were the one who brought up the possibility of infinitely-regenerating recruitment for the Sith -- one dies, another is recruited in his place. If you and Sasaki were both mafia in such a situation, then why *not* such a crazy gambit? You know you're going to get investigated, how do you stop it? Mutual bussing, the survivor gets townie cred and a less high-profile new recruit.
I'm sorry you find it ridiculous, but there is a potential motive there, by your own theory. And you're both striking me as somewhat artificial.
I agree that sasaki's question is out of the blue and weird. That's why it's scummy. My response is precisely what you'd expect here.... I'm going to lynch anything that moves. Turns out I moved in the process.
If I manage to persuade you against lynching me, it's EXTREMELY productive.
I won't reveal that to you. Beskar knows where his leak is.[/QUOTE]
Askthepizzaguy
04-15-2010, 03:21
You yourself were the one who brought up the possibility of infinitely-regenerating recruitment for the Sith -- one dies, another is recruited in his place. If you and Sasaki were both mafia in such a situation, then why *not* such a crazy gambit? You know you're going to get investigated, how do you stop it? Mutual bussing, the survivor gets townie cred and a less high-profile new recruit.
I'm sorry you find it ridiculous, but there is a potential motive there, by your own theory. And you're both striking me as somewhat artificial.
There's no such thing as townie cred in a game where you can turn to the darkside. And making a spectacle of myself guarantees I get lynched or scanned. That doesn't help matters at all because as a lynchee I can't influence the vote after I get lynched in disgrace and my supposed master would have to waste time replacing me. I see what you're saying Renata, there is a tiny bit of logic to such a silly plan, but it is weighed against the enormity of reality, which is the sheer futility of the move. The positive, if any, doesn't outweigh all the negatives.
I rather think you are rationalizing your move after you make it. You can construct a theory which matches my behavior, but you've done it after the fact, and the theory doesn't hold water either.
I would rather let the two of them live a little longer so we can get a better sense of whether this is just them both having off days, or if they are really scummy. But then again, I am far too cautious in these games in general. My overdefensiveness and reluctance to jump the gun has led to my defeat on both sides before.
So I'll let you guys decide what to do with them. But right now my vote goes toward a pseudo-random lynch.
Askthepizzaguy
04-15-2010, 03:40
How do you know I'm having an off day? What if Sasaki is scum?
You're giving Sasaki a total pass here.
I'm not giving either of you a pass. Perhaps you may think so because most of the votes are on you and not him, but I have expressed general suspicion towards the two of you.
Sasaki should be bandwagoning right now, and certainly not trying to get you lynched. By the same token, you would never try to get Sasaki lynched with such conviction this early in the game. Just last game, in Mafia IX, you two were buddy-buddy till the end when we (the mafia) tried to split you apart with the kills and the WIFOM. You even went off on about how players shouldn't lynch either one of you "because you're suspicious".
But the thing is, both of you were grasping at straws just now due to the nature of your accusations. It seems to me that this started off as an argument you agreed to start, because it was totally tangential to the discussion at hand- then you both realized it was conspicuous.
You may go on about how it's "bad mafia strategy" to do that, but it's just WIFOM. The mafia are constantly trying to out-anticipate the town. They will do things that are expected of mafia because the town does not expect that they will do things that are expected, etc, etc.
Askthepizzaguy
04-15-2010, 04:00
Sasaki should be bandwagoning right now, and certainly not trying to get you lynched. By the same token, you would never try to get Sasaki lynched with such conviction this early in the game.
If I think he's guilty I'll try to get him lynched wherever and whenever I choose. I don't hound Sasaki every game, but neither do I give him a pass when he does something which triggers my "what the flip?" meter.
I'll certainly try to fight my way out of this lynch, but I don't expect special treatment and if you have nothing better than me, so be it. Beats being scanned/blocked/recruited every game.
Interesting conversation. I don't see why people think Sasaki is scummy for this. He probed ATPG because ATPG voted with no explanation. ATPG drew the attention with his own actions, and Sasaki's questions have followed logically since then. There's nothing off about Sasaki here. I cannot say the same for ATPG. That said, I'm not quite ready to vote for him. I do have a question of my own though: Why did you originally vote for GH, ATPG? You never did explain that. It's not like you to vote without either an argument or a joke.
Sasaki is not going to be lynched today, because the town does not want him dead. You, however, will come very close to being lynched, if you survive at all.
So, here's my proposal, ATPG. You all caught me last game protesting a random lynch. This time around, I see none of that. All of a sudden someone whispers "investigator" and that idea goes out the window. Well, the only investigator I see is Beskar- and nobody feels they can trust him anyway. So why not bring out that random lynch that was so successful last time?
Neither of you are a good lynch before we have more information.
ATPG, you agree to support a lynch that I decide on via random.org, before I say who it is, and I will defend you for the round. And we turn this random lynch into a massive bandwagon. What do you say?
Askthepizzaguy
04-15-2010, 04:24
Interesting conversation. I don't see why people think Sasaki is scummy for this. He probed ATPG because ATPG voted with no explanation. ATPG drew the attention with his own actions, and Sasaki's questions have followed logically since then. There's nothing off about Sasaki here. I cannot say the same for ATPG. That said, I'm not quite ready to vote for him. I do have a question of my own though: Why did you originally vote for GH, ATPG? You never did explain that. It's not like you to vote without either an argument or a joke.
He's trying to waste the lynch on Beskar. I thought given the context it was really obvious, and didn't warrant further comment.
Askthepizzaguy
04-15-2010, 04:26
Sasaki is not going to be lynched today, because the town does not want him dead. You, however, will come very close to being lynched, if you survive at all.
So, here's my proposal, ATPG. You all caught me last game protesting a random lynch. This time around, I see none of that. All of a sudden someone whispers "investigator" and that idea goes out the window. Well, the only investigator I see is Beskar- and nobody feels they can trust him anyway. So why not bring out that random lynch that was so successful last time?
Neither of you are a good lynch before we have more information.
ATPG, you agree to support a lynch that I decide on via random.org, before I say who it is, and I will defend you for the round. And we turn this random lynch into a massive bandwagon. What do you say?
No deal.
If I wanted to save my skin, I'd follow along. I'm not concerned with bargaining my way out of this. My vote stays where it is.
GeneralHankerchief
04-15-2010, 04:27
He's trying to waste the lynch on Beskar. I thought given the context it was really obvious, and didn't warrant further comment.
Waste the lynch, says you. How can you be sure? says I.
Askthepizzaguy
04-15-2010, 04:28
Now you're just repeating yourself. :clown:
Might as well delete this one too, GH, because now it makes no sense.
GeneralHankerchief
04-15-2010, 04:31
Now you're just repeating yourself. :clown:
My accidental double post aside, you're joking again. Play straight with me or you get your wish and I take my vote off Beskar, but I don't think you'll like where it ends up.
Well, you ARE going to die, then. Whatever the truth of the matter may be, the town has decided to back Sasaki, and they will most likely continue to do so unless he changes his mind- in that case there will be a split vote between you and Sasaki's new target, and you will probably still be the lucky winner.
Askthepizzaguy
04-15-2010, 04:32
My accidental double post aside, you're joking again. Play straight with me or you get your wish and I take my vote off Beskar, but I don't think you'll like where it ends up.
NEVER!!!
I'll defy you all to my last breath. My final words will be screw you!!!
a completely inoffensive name
04-15-2010, 04:32
Vote: ATPG I'm going to be vehemently anti leadership this entire game.
GeneralHankerchief
04-15-2010, 04:35
NEVER!!!
I'll defy you all to my last breath. My final words will be screw you!!!
Well, you asked for it.
Unvote: Beskar
Vote: ATPG
Askthepizzaguy
04-15-2010, 04:37
Satisfied yet, Sasaki?
Not only am I willing to, but I can even make it happen on purpose.
pevergreen
04-15-2010, 04:42
I have got to start sleeping less.
For now it does look like Beskar is town aligned, but as I said, if he keeps going down that road of network...
I doubt he would be entirely immune to lynch, so lets not kill him yet.
Vote: ATPG
If he was trying for fun and being right, he would have kept in character. Either way, him going out of character is odd.
Askthepizzaguy
04-15-2010, 04:48
Dance for me, puppets. Dance for pizzaguy. MWahahahaha
Satisfied yet, Sasaki?
Not only am I willing to, but I can even make it happen on purpose.
OH NOES! WE PLAYED DIRECTLY INTER THEIR HANDS!
Look at that! Sasaki asked for ATPG to get himself lynched, and ATPG has nearly succeeded in getting himself lynched while on the pretense of disagreeing with Sasaki and trying to stay alive!
See, I told you. They really are mafia partners.
Sasaki Kojiro
04-15-2010, 04:56
He's trying to waste the lynch on Beskar. I thought given the context it was really obvious, and didn't warrant further comment.
What were you thinking the day before:
I say we string him up again tomorrow. This could be a CountArach-in-The Settlement-type deal.Helpful statement: It would be far simpler to investigate him.
No, I've seen this happen more times in the past than I can count. We kill him now, while he's still in the public view. If he doesn't get lynched next round, he slips away, has plenty of time to work, and then ends up destroying us all in the end. Lynch him tomorrow, get this part of the game over with, and then move on.
And I wouldn't trust any investigations on this role BTW.Sure, I'll go along with that. And if he turns out to be an innocent, I suppose you'd be willing to die for wasting 2 rounds and possibly a powerful townie role?
If so, you've got my vote, with both possible meanings.
You misunderstand me. I'm not willing to die, period, because that's irresponsible townie behavior. Wasn't this established over a year ago?
I'm willing to admit that I was wrong, yes. Die, no.Hmm. You're not one to get nervous under such simple pressure, so I'll accept your explanation here for now.
How does this train of thought lead to a GH vote with no reason attached? The vote implies that you think he's scum, and you say he's trying to waste a lynch, which implies the same. But before, you accepted his explanation, and were willing to lynch beskar if GH was willing to be lynched the next day. Which, by the way, is remarkably similar to something you said makes me scum.
Askthepizzaguy
04-15-2010, 04:56
Originally I was trying to get out of the lynch, though. I'm a bit too prideful to turn around and say I'll behave now. So it's pure WIFOM until I die, I'm afraid.
Askthepizzaguy
04-15-2010, 04:58
How does this train of thought lead to a GH vote with no reason attached? The vote implies that you think he's scum, and you say he's trying to waste a lynch, which implies the same. But before, you accepted his explanation, and were willing to lynch beskar if GH was willing to be lynched the next day. Which, by the way, is remarkably similar to something you said makes me scum.
I changed my mind. I honestly thought he'd come to his senses. Pizzaguy's prerogative.
Sasaki Kojiro
04-15-2010, 05:06
You changed your mind but the context was still "really obvious, and didn't warrant further comment"?
GeneralHankerchief
04-15-2010, 05:06
Vote: ATPG I'm going to be vehemently anti leadership this entire game.
ACIN, you'll want to vote for Beskar next round. He's trying to set himself up as leader of a massive townie network.
Askthepizzaguy
04-15-2010, 05:10
You changed your mind but the context was still "really obvious, and didn't warrant further comment"?
GH was voting for Beskar. I think it is a waste of a lynch, given he just got lynched. So when he did that, I voted him.
Askthepizzaguy
04-15-2010, 05:24
You guys really think my mafia teammates would let me get away with this nonsense? You can't even stand it as townies with very little to lose. You know if I did this as your partner you'd rip my throat out. Are you just punishing me for not going along with your foolproof plans, or do you really think I behave this way as scum? My mates both freaked when I voted myself in Inishmore. Most freak out when I even mention voting them in a safe situation where I know they won't get lynched. Thinking I am mafia right now is the height of absurdity.
These votes are very simple: you don't like the way I'm playing the game. Fair enough, but that won't catch you any scum.
GeneralHankerchief
04-15-2010, 05:28
You guys really think my mafia teammates would let me get away with this nonsense? You can't even stand it as townies with very little to lose. You know if I did this as your partner you'd rip my throat out. Are you just punishing me for not going along with your foolproof plans, or do you really think I behave this way as scum? My mates both freaked when I voted myself in Inishmore. Most freak out when I even mention voting them in a safe situation where I know they won't get lynched. Thinking I am mafia right now is the height of absurdity.
These votes are very simple: you don't like the way I'm playing the game. Fair enough, but that won't catch you any scum.
Originally I was trying to get you out of the lynch, though. I'm a bit too prideful to turn around and say I'll switch my vote now. So it's pure WIFOM until you die, I'm afraid.
Askthepizzaguy
04-15-2010, 05:34
Originally I was trying to get you out of the lynch, though. I'm a bit too prideful to turn around and say I'll switch my vote now. So it's pure WIFOM until you die, I'm afraid.
Then my theory is correct. So, you know that you're wasting your lynch, and you're doing it intentionally.
That's actually worse than my own behavior, you know. At least I was trying to WIFOM out of it.
GeneralHankerchief
04-15-2010, 05:37
Then my theory is correct. So, you know that you're wasting your lynch, and you're doing it intentionally.
That's actually worse than my own behavior, you know. At least I was trying to WIFOM out of it.
I stayed the course. I honestly thought I'd lost my senses. GH's prerogative.
Askthepizzaguy
04-15-2010, 05:38
Hardy har har.
Well I tried. I'll stop posting now. :bow:
G'night folks.
a completely inoffensive name
04-15-2010, 06:31
ACIN, you'll want to vote for Beskar next round. He's trying to set himself up as leader of a massive townie network.
Don't think I'm not after him as well. ATPG is my best chance of seeing a top player leave this round, so im joining the party and voting him out. I'll vote for beskar, Sasaki, and anyone else whose post count is outrageous.
Diana Abnoba
04-15-2010, 06:51
Okay, this is getting very weird. This all seems like some sort of a set up to me as well. FOS on GH for another wasted lynch on Beskar (a player that (as far as we know) can't be lynched). Not that I fully trust him either, but a lynch won't get rid of him, so what is the point. FOS on Sasaki for out of the blue coming up with hey Pizza why don't you lynch yourself, to prove that you are town. He hasn't done that move for some time (mainly because we all hated it, so it never works for him anymore). Then finally FOS on Pizza for the knee jerk reaction you gave to Sasaki. You are MUCH better at this my dear, so for me to hear such a temper tantrum (sorry) type of defense from you makes my very suspicious of you. Although I can understand getting frustrated when every game your in, you either get killed, lynched, investigated, blocked...before round 3. There is too much metagaming lately, but in the early rounds town has no clues, so we jump on anything that moves (as you have stated), and I'm sorry dear, you moved like a fish out of water. You did take it down a notch after a time, can't really tell if that was because you calmed down, or you saw that, that approach wasn't working. Also I agree that, that would be a very bold (some might say insane) move, to start something with your mafia partner this early, but you are not the ordinary player (this is a compliment) and have some very inventive ways of playing.
Not really sure what to conclude from all this, so for now, I will not vote, need to think on this some more. :inquisitive:
Just as an off-topic question the noobish me needs answering: What does "FoS" mean?
[/choxorn the lurker goes to bed]
johnhughthom
04-15-2010, 08:12
Finger of Suspicion
Kagemusha
04-15-2010, 08:52
Guys.Im thinking you are suffering from SAKA = Sasaki, Kage syndrome. Sasaki you are focusing too heavily on ATPG, just because you think ATPG was able to slip pass radar in another game and now you want to ensure that doesnt happen again. Sasaki you should be more carefull with the wagons you start. I dont have anything personally against Beskar either.But i found his approach on the game being scummy as heck. We should be lynching players that act scummy, not players that are potentially dangerous. In that case for example Sasaki and ATPG should be lynched on the first rounds on each game they play, which sounds too boring tactics to bare.
I don't mind the "praise" if you can call it that, I mind being lynched when I am innocent.
In other news, the Pope likes being called a Catholic.
Seriously Pizza, this is terrible arguing. You're dimissing everything without addressing the concerns that we have about you. Given that a likely game mechanic is that the Sith Master can choose an apprentice, an ATPG-Sasaki mafioso team is more likely than other possible combinations. The comments which have been made by you and Sasaki do nothing to dismiss my concern for the likelihood that such a team is a reality.
Vote:ATPG
OH NOES! WE PLAYED DIRECTLY INTER THEIR HANDS!
Dun dun DUNNNNN
Tricked again by the almighty ATPG. Rats.
Finger of Suspicion
Which is a less severe version of HoS, Hand of Suspicion.
I don't think Sasaki's logic holds with respect to Atpg being bad, but I don't think it's scummy behavior on his part. I was considering this vote yesterday, and with no new leads will return to it. vote:white_eyes.
Could you be so kind to explain your vote on White_Eyes:D ?
I have got to start sleeping less.
For now it does look like Beskar is town aligned, but as I said, if he keeps going down that road of network...
I doubt he would be entirely immune to lynch, so lets not kill him yet.
Vote: ATPG
If he was trying for fun and being right, he would have kept in character. Either way, him going out of character is odd.
Hmmm...
ATPG seems off to me.
But I think Beskar is a better lynch candidate.
From the latest write-up, it results that our expedition leader has no knowledge about the use of the Force:
As he left the auditorium, he felt panic. The sudden connection with what could only be what had been known as the force in the ancient Jedi religion and 4 murders among the expedition crew, was unsettling. Could it be…?
But apparently, our friendly neighbourhood Sith Lord, Count Dooku, does have knowledge of the Force:
They could see Count Dooku floating silently just outside the barrier, he seemed frozen and lifeless.
They were all about to turn around and leave when the Count twitched. They turned in amazement as they beheld Count Dooku moving his head towards them and smile. He gestured that he wanted to reenter the hangar bay. A few alarmed breath-intakes among the Jedi members announced the presence of Count Dooku reentering he hangar bay.
When he finally stood before them, a little frozen but nonetheless quite healthy, he announced.
“It is a little trick I learned, that’s all. Now, should we continue the search of this ship and get it powered up?"
Our friend Beskar has also been awfully silent and seems to be pleased to just hide himself while others are getting themselves in trouble...
I think Beskar is our Sith Lord. If he survives the lynch, then he's probably unlynchable until his henchmen are lynched (Godfather mechanic with a twist?)
Vote : Beskar
Tally
Askthepizzaguy: 8 (ACIN, Csargo, GH, pever, Renata, Sasaki, Subotan, Winston)
Beskar: 3 (Andres, Kage, Yaseikhaan)
White_Eyes:D: 1 (autolycus)
GeneralHankerchief: 1 (Beskar)
Diana Abnoba: 1 (Chaotix)
Announcement:
I am going to accept votes that do not have a preceding unvote. Winston voted WE:D first but then voted ATPG later without unvoting.
It will be too time consuming should I have to search all posts in between to see if he perhaps did a unvote without placing a new vote.
Winston Hughes
04-15-2010, 10:08
Could you be so kind to explain your vote on White_Eyes:D ?
In light of the rampaging bandwagon on ATPG, I'm going to go back to voting against White_eyes myself now. However, I would like to see autolycus answer your question before giving any further explanation myself, so that auto can't get away with just repeating my reasons.
Unvote: ATPG; vote: White_eye:D
Winston Hughes
04-15-2010, 10:10
I am going to accept votes that do not have a preceding unvote. Winston voted WE:D first but then voted ATPG later without unvoting.
It will be too time consuming should I have to search all posts in between to see if he perhaps did a unvote without placing a new vote.
Yeah, sorry about that. I really should know better by now. :embarassed:
I know, let's lynch a power role!
I really hope he's truly a Jedi Master just to prove you all wrong.
johnhughthom
04-15-2010, 10:15
I know, let's lynch a power role!
I really hope he's truly a Jedi Master just to prove you all wrong.
First of all you mock everybody for being daft enough to lynch a power role. Then you admit you don't actually know he's a power role. Interesting.
First of all you mock everybody for being daft enough to lynch a power role. Then you admit you don't actually know he's a power role. Interesting.
He is claiming to be a power role and survived a lynch, correct?
All I have is what I can infer from his claims and his posts; he could be a Sith Lord, I agreed with Pizza on that... but he could actually be telling the truth and be a Jedi Master after all.
Kagemusha
04-15-2010, 10:22
He is claiming to be a power role and survived a lynch, correct?
All I have is what I can infer from his claims and his posts; he could be a Sith Lord, I agreed with Pizza on that... but he could actually be telling the truth and be a Jedi Master after all.
Well i dont deal with coulds and shoulds. So far im not convinced about him as i havent heard of anything helpfull to the town coming from him. As long as the situation remains the same he is my lynch priority number uno.
I know, let's lynch a power role!
I really hope he's truly a Jedi Master just to prove you all wrong.
Did you read my post?
How do you explain that our expedition leader doesn't know how to use the Force (but he meditates and the write-up clearly indicates that he's a member of the Jedi council and he is our leader, so by default should be the one with the most power and knowledge), but our so called pro-town player Beskar does know enough about the Force to survive a lynch attempt (he used "a trick" to survive) ?
And why is he so silent, now that all attention is going to Pizza and Sasaki? Surely, he could add something to the discussion?
ACIN, you'll want to vote for Beskar next round. He's trying to set himself up as leader of a massive townie network.
What town network?
Our friend Beskar has also been awfully silent and seems to be pleased to just hide himself while others are getting themselves in trouble...
That is called "being in Bed". Notice the time I last posted, which was around 1am, and now, which is around 10am.
How do you explain that our expedition leader doesn't know how to use the Force (but he meditates and the write-up clearly indicates that he's a member of the Jedi council and he is our leader, so by default should be the one with the most power and knowledge)
Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords.
In that game, the character you play as, The Exile, is cut off from the Force for a period of time. I had interpreted the portion you quoted from the write-up to be something similar, perhaps a means of supressing the Force as so not to be easily detected by anyone evil on-board. Everything's shrouded in mystery at the moment, and will be revealed "in due time", apparantly, so who knows?
Also, remember that the Light Side of the Force is never about power, good sir. :bow:
And why is he so silent, now that all attention is going to Pizza and Sasaki? Surely, he could add something to the discussion?
This is just a massive hunch... but perhaps he's only just woken up? It's only 10:40am here, he went to bed in the really early hours too.
That is called "being in Bed". Notice the time I last posted, which was around 1am, and now, which is around 10am.
Lazy hippy :whip:
~;p
Anyway, how do you explain that the write-up shows that the most powerful among us, our expedition leader (who comes from the Jedi Council and meditates like a Jedi, so he is a Jedi) has no knowlegde about how to use the Force (or do "tricks" if you want) while your character knows enough about the Force to survive a lynch attempt...
It seems to me that in this Universe, the Jedi Order has lost all knowledge about the use of the Force.
How comes Count Dooku has knowlegde about using the Force? Knowledge he has never shared with the Jedi Council, apparently? Why did he keep his knowledge about the Force secret? I think because he follows the way of the Sith.
Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords.
Maybe. But I'd like to hear Bessie's explanation.
Anyway, how do you explain that the write-up shows that the most powerful among us, our expedition leader (who comes from the Jedi Council and meditates like a Jedi, so he is a Jedi) has no knowlegde about how to use the Force (or do "tricks" if you want) while your character knows enough about the Force to survive a lynch attempt...
It seems to me that in this Universe, the Jedi Order has lost all knowledge about the use of the Force.
How comes Count Dooku has knowlegde about using the Force? Knowledge he has never shared with the Jedi Council, apparently? Why did he keep his knowledge about the Force secret? I think because he follows the way of the Sith.
Two Jedi Masters in the previous round got it. I was one of them. Tonight, it looked like the expedition leader did as well as two others. It seems completely randomly generated by Sigurd. That means there are 4 other people who know I am telling the truth.
I already explained this game mechanic earlier in the game. The strange feeling in the force leads you to a holocron of ancient Jedi Knowledge which now allows you to use it. Since also the Dark-Side of the force works on hatred and not peace and love, it basically means there are 5 provable townies in the game.
Kagemusha
04-15-2010, 10:46
Two Jedi Masters in the previous round got it. I was one of them. Tonight, it looked like the expedition leader did as well as two others. It seems completely randomly generated by Sigurd. That means there are 4 other people who know I am telling the truth.
I already explained this game mechanic earlier in the game.
Well can you explain us what is the purpose of your character?
Well can you explain us what is the purpose of your character?
I am a Jedi Master?
Kagemusha
04-15-2010, 10:50
I am a Jedi Master?
And what good Jedi master does to the town? What are your pro town powers?
And what good Jedi master does to the town? What are your pro town powers?
I believe they have already been mentioned in the thread.
Powers are randomly generated as per-rank. I had an original Jedi Master ranked power, but because of the holocron, I gained a Padawan ranked power, Knight ranked power and another Master ranked power.
Kagemusha
04-15-2010, 10:56
I believe they have already been mentioned in the thread.
Powers are randomly generated as per-rank. I had an original Jedi Master ranked power, but because of the holocron, I gained a Padawan ranked power, Knight ranked power and another Master ranked power.
Care to elaborate what those powers do exactly? You can kill people more efficiently? Protect people? Investigate people? What little i remember from star wars universe.It was the Sith that used Holocrons extensively,not the Jedi.
Care to elaborate what those powers do exactly? You can kill people more efficiently? Protect people? Investigate people? What little i remember from star wars universe.It was the Sith that used Holocrons extensively,not the Jedi.
Actually, the Jedi used Holocrons extensively in their learning on a day-to-day basis. A holocron is basically a book which you read using the force and not your eyes. The powers are basically your protects/investigates/etc, persuming the rank has an effect on how good that power is as well.
Kagemusha
04-15-2010, 11:02
Actually, the Jedi used Holocrons extensively in their learning on a day-to-day basis. A holocron is basically a book which you read using the force and not your eyes. The powers are basically your protects/investigates/etc, persuming the rank has an effect on how good that power is as well.
Well nevertheless.What can you actually do for us, which would make it more worthwhile to keep you alive then kill you as possible threat?
Great, you go to bed and are dead when you wake up. I really hope this was nothing personal...
Well nevertheless.What can you actually do for us, which would make it more worthwhile to keep you alive then kill you as possible threat?
Stupid question.
Kagemusha
04-15-2010, 11:08
Stupid question.
Well your attitude isnt certainly helping.Who did you investigate,protect,kill last night? If you cant provide an answer what you are doing with your powers you should die.
I believe they have already been mentioned in the thread.
Powers are randomly generated as per-rank. I had an original Jedi Master ranked power, but because of the holocron, I gained a Padawan ranked power, Knight ranked power and another Master ranked power.
And this one Jedi ranked power was to survive a lynch?
Or was it the ability to kill? Or the ability to investigate? Those two you claimed to have in the previous round.
Now you say you started with one power.
What's it going to be? Did you start the game with three abilities (kill or investigate at night; survive lynch) or only one?
Well your attitude isnt certainly helping.Who did you investigate,protect,kill last night? If you cant provide an answer what you are doing with your powers you should die.
Disagree. He certainly doesn't have to give all the details.
But I've got a feeling that the story he's telling isn't entirely true. When in doubt, lynch the liars. And I'm getting the feeling Beskar is lying, so...
What's it going to be? Did you start the game with three abilities (kill or investigate at night; survive lynch) or only one?
When the Role PMs were given out, he only had one... when the game started for real, he gained an extra three from a holocron; that's what it looks like.
Kagemusha
04-15-2010, 11:11
Disagree. He certainly doesn't have to give all the details.
But I've got a feeling that the story he's telling isn't entirely true. When in doubt, lynch the liars.
Well so far he has not given any. He just claims to be powerful, while surviving a lynch. There is nothing there saying he is a good guy.
When the Role PMs were given out, he only had one... when the game started for real, he gained an extra three from a holocron; that's what it looks like.
That's not how I read what he wrote. His explanations smell fishy.
That's not how I read what he wrote. His explanations smell fishy.
Well, his post stated:
Powers are randomly generated as per-rank. I had an original Jedi Master ranked power, but because of the holocron, I gained a Padawan ranked power, Knight ranked power and another Master ranked power.
I count his sole original power as a Jedi Master and then three additional ones as per this holocron.
What's it going to be? Did you start the game with three abilities (kill or investigate at night; survive lynch) or only one?
"You had luck and several force abilities came your way in addition to the one you should have received anyway this round. "
So, you receive the holocrons at the end of the night?
As I quoted earlier, it was in the write up on the first night, this is when I got my powers. I never had any abilities before then.
All Jedi-Masters, etc, by the looks of the way Sigurd worded to me, got their powers then, but I was luckly and got extra powers, which the Expedition Leader got himself last night, which means 4 people can verify my story, and also means I am definitely not sith.
As I quoted earlier, it was in the write up on the first night, this is when I got my powers. I never had any abilities before then.
All Jedi-Masters, etc, by the looks of the way Sigurd worded to me, got their powers then, but I was luckly and got extra powers, which the Expedition Leader got himself last night, which means 4 people can verify my story, and also means I am definitely not sith.
vs.
I believe they have already been mentioned in the thread.
Powers are randomly generated as per-rank. I had an original Jedi Master ranked power, but because of the holocron, I gained a Padawan ranked power, Knight ranked power and another Master ranked power.
Something is unclear to me.
Did you have the original Jedi Master power at the start of the game or did you get it together with the other powers through the holocron?
Did you receive more than one holocron?
Just want to make sure I understand everything correctly.
Did you have the original Jedi Master power at the start of the game or did you get it together with the other powers through the holocron?
This post. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2470349&viewfull=1#post2470349)
Ok, then.
Unvote : Beskar
I don't think Sasaki's logic holds with respect to Atpg being bad, but I don't think it's scummy behavior on his part. I was considering this vote yesterday, and with no new leads will return to it. vote:white_eyes.
I'd still like to know why you voted White_Eyes:D.
Vote : autolycus
NEVER!!!
I'll defy you all to my last breath. My final words will be screw you!!!
Dance for me, puppets. Dance for pizzaguy. MWahahahaha
Originally I was trying to get out of the lynch, though. I'm a bit too prideful to turn around and say I'll behave now. So it's pure WIFOM until I die, I'm afraid.
This attitude is worthy of a lynch. It's annoying, unhelpful, and designed to antagonize. It's also pretty much identical to ATPG's end-game play in Shadow Fort, where he was independent scum.
Vote: ATPG
As I quoted earlier, it was in the write up on the first night, this is when I got my powers. I never had any abilities before then.
If you had no powers at the start, why were you so excited when you got your role PM? This doesn't add up.
This attitude is worthy of a lynch. It's annoying, unhelpful, and designed to antagonize. It's also pretty much identical to ATPG's end-game play in Shadow Fort, where he was independent scum.
Vote: ATPG
A townie with an annoying attitude is still a townie. We're not here to lynch townies :shrug:
If you had no powers at the start, why were you so excited when you got your role PM? This doesn't add up.
That's something that is still bothering me as well.
What Beskar is saying is that at the start of the game, a Jedi Master has the same powers and abilities as an Initiate: zero, nada, nothing.
Why would you love Sigurd for that?
But I'm more interested in autolycus.
If you had no powers at the start, why were you so excited when you got your role PM? This doesn't add up.
What Beskar is saying is that at the start of the game, a Jedi Master has the same powers and abilities as an Initiate: zero, nada, nothing.
Why would you love Sigurd for that?
While I praise you for trying to account for context, you forget the context of when I posted it, namely, the time. It was just before the day write-out was out, when I got my private message saying about it.
IE: You receive the night results before the big write-up is out.
If you had no powers at the start, why were you so excited when you got your role PM? This doesn't add up.
This occurred to me as well last night. Would be nice to get an answer, Beskar. When did you go bouncing around happily to Secura and whomever else?
(Retracted, sorry Beskar. Started off behind the end of the thread and then went backwards.)
autolycus
04-15-2010, 13:21
That's something that is still bothering me as well.
What Beskar is saying is that at the start of the game, a Jedi Master has the same powers and abilities as an Initiate: zero, nada, nothing.
Why would you love Sigurd for that?
But I'm more interested in autolycus.
If I'm interpreting the last couple pages right, Beskar's actually saying the masters each started out with one ability, and he got three more night 1. White_Eyes struck me as mildly scummy day 1, and since I don't think the other lynch candidates are good picks for today, the third party candidate with the most previous votes also makes sense from a pragmatic perspective.
Got interrupted mid-post last night, let me try again starting with the rest of the post I was trying to respond to.
If I manage to persuade you against lynching me, it's EXTREMELY productive.
And completely the wrong way to go about it. You must know that.
I won't reveal that to you. Beskar knows where his leak is.
I'd like him to confirm that. When I talked to him yesterday he implied otherwise, though of course that may have been mis-direction.
And the response to what I did get written:
There's no such thing as townie cred in a game where you can turn to the darkside. And making a spectacle of myself guarantees I get lynched or scanned. That doesn't help matters at all because as a lynchee I can't influence the vote after I get lynched in disgrace and my supposed master would have to waste time replacing me. I see what you're saying Renata, there is a tiny bit of logic to such a silly plan, but it is weighed against the enormity of reality, which is the sheer futility of the move. The positive, if any, doesn't outweigh all the negatives.
Maybe. Though at least you acknowledge the logic.
I rather think you are rationalizing your move after you make it. You can construct a theory which matches my behavior, but you've done it after the fact, and the theory doesn't hold water either.
Of course I'm rationalizing it after I make it, that's what tends to happen with a snap judgment. But you seem to be trying to imply by that that my original vote was based on nothing at all, and that is not true. Remember that original question to you and Sasaki about what you were trying to pull? That's what it looked like, like some sort of artificial ploy to do something -- as artificial as Sasaki's vote on Niklas yesterday, but coming from both of you. When the explanation for what was going on proved absent, I knew I had to vote for one of you. I guess you're the lucky winner, though Sasaki doesn't get a pass just because his later comments about you seem more well-grounded than the original ones. He was still being deliberately provoking in a way he must have known would result in a response he could try to turn into something more. It's just that you looked even worse.
If I'm interpreting the last couple pages right, Beskar's actually saying the masters each started out with one ability, and he got three more night 1. White_Eyes struck me as mildly scummy day 1, and since I don't think the other lynch candidates are good picks for today, the third party candidate with the most previous votes also makes sense from a pragmatic perspective.
So, your reason for voting White_Eyes:D is that you think Beskar is innocent, you think the other lynch candidates are innocent and White_Eyes:D is "mildly scummy" and has some votes already.
What exactly is it about W_E that makes him "mildly scummy"? Why do you think the other lynch candidates are innocent or at least less than "mildly scummy"?
Is there another player you think is more than mildly scummy and if so who and why don't you try to convince us to lynch that player? Are you just being lazy or are you scum that's happy about how things are going at the moment and thus doesn't need to put too much effort in it?
A townie with an annoying attitude is still a townie. We're not here to lynch townies :shrug:
True, but ATPG's behavior really is off. His attitude this phase has been pretty much identical to the last couple of Shadow Fort phase. That could just be bleed-over from the other game, but it could also be him continuing a tactic that saved his bacon in that game.
In any case, I see no better lynch. I went back and checked, Beskar's excitement in-game and as referenced by Secura does indeed seem to stem from the end of N1 rather than him receiving his original role PM.
I can answer both of your questions, Renata, as they both apply to me basically.
This occurred to me as well last night. Would be nice to get an answer, Beskar. When did you go bouncing around happily to Secura and whomever else?
Beskar randomly said to me over MSN that he loved Sigurd, which was immediately after he posted the very same thing in-thread.
I'd like him to confirm that. When I talked to him yesterday he implied otherwise, though of course that may have been mis-direction.
His leak was me; he told me these claims, and while I was able to accept some of them, others sounded entirely... outlandish to me as I've never actually played a game where someone was immune to lynches.
GeneralHankerchief
04-15-2010, 13:42
Seeing as ATPG is comfortably in the lead, I'm going to switch my vote back to where it belongs.
Unvote: ATPG
Vote: Beskar
Vote:autolycus
I'm going to help my friend Andres out here. Though with the votes on ATPG I doubt it will help much.
Seeing as ATPG is comfortably in the lead, I'm going to switch my vote back to where it belongs.
Unvote: ATPG
Vote: Beskar
On retrospect, Beskars' explanations seem reasonable.
On top of that, I've seen nobody counterclaiming this holocron thingy and the details about the powers of a Jedi Master; if Beskar would be lying, a Jedi Master would come forward and say so. Beskar has given many details, so if it's a lie, there must be a mistake in it and a real Jedi Master would be able to point that out. A mafia for a town power role is a good deal, so a Jedi Master would probably sacrifice himself by revealing and saying Beskar is lying. As long as no Jedi Master says Beskar lies, I think we can let him off the hook.
autolycus
04-15-2010, 13:52
To be honest, a fair portion is laziness/busy-ness. I'm the primary lynch target right now in a game over on cfc, and I have a prelim tonight. Both of those are taking up more of my mental energy for today. I do think Beskar is innocent, and the atpg-sasaki war just isn't clicking for me. Therefore, I'm trying to provide another option for those with more time and energy than me to devote to analysis today.
Interesting conversation. I don't see why people think Sasaki is scummy for this. He probed ATPG because ATPG voted with no explanation. ATPG drew the attention with his own actions, and Sasaki's questions have followed logically since then. There's nothing off about Sasaki here. I cannot say the same for ATPG. That said, I'm not quite ready to vote for him. I do have a question of my own though: Why did you originally vote for GH, ATPG? You never did explain that. It's not like you to vote without either an argument or a joke.
My concern about Sasaki stems from his provocation of ATPG over the "lynch yourself" thing. I mean, that's exactly where I'd go myself if I were deliberately trying to make ATPG look bad. Everybody knows how often ATPG votes himself or threatens to. Everybody knows how sincere most of those comments are. It's an easy-peasy way to make him look like a hypocrite and catch him contradicting himself. That's why Sasaki will get my vote at some point regardless of how this ATPG thing turns out.
To be honest, a fair portion is laziness/busy-ness. I'm the primary lynch target right now in a game over on cfc, and I have a prelim tonight. Both of those are taking up more of my mental energy for today. I do think Beskar is innocent, and the atpg-sasaki war just isn't clicking for me. Therefore, I'm trying to provide another option for those with more time and energy than me to devote to analysis today.
Fair enough. Keep in mind that such an explanation won't be enough in a later round, though.
Unvote : autolycus
Vote: ATPG I'm going to be vehemently anti leadership this entire game.
Pointless and mis-placed. ATPG hasn't tried to lead anything (yet). You should be voting Beskar. Why aren't you?
You changed your mind but the context was still "really obvious, and didn't warrant further comment"?
Here goes Sasaki again with the easy provocation of turning ATPG's hyperbole against him -- ATPG's vote on GH was perfectly clear to me, at least, and the quotes dragged up from yesterday don't really support the idea of insincerity on his part.
My concern about Sasaki stems from his provocation of ATPG over the "lynch yourself" thing. I mean, that's exactly where I'd go myself if I were deliberately trying to make ATPG look bad. Everybody knows how often ATPG votes himself or threatens to. Everybody knows how sincere most of those comments are. It's an easy-peasy way to make him look like a hypocrite and catch him contradicting himself. That's why Sasaki will get my vote at some point regardless of how this ATPG thing turns out.
:shrug: ATPG's self-lynching style is intentionally designed to confuse people. When he starts doing it, he either doesn't care about the game, in which case his role isn't important enough to be a huge loss if he's lynched, or he's bluffing, in which case calling him on it will help the town one way or another. Regardless, I see no harm in helping him fulfill his boasts.
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