Large Mafia Game StarWars: Return of the Sith [Concluded] [Archive] - Page 9

Sigurd

04-28-2010, 22:50

Round 9

Day

Nothing else was found and the crew worked hard and long replacing transformers and other important power grid equipment. The day was nearing night and a tired crew retired to their quarters.

Kenth Hamner walked the long and empty hallways to his quarters and he was utterly tired. This had been a long day, even if day had no real meaning out here in cold dark space. They lived in day and night cycles which each lasted 24 hours. For some of the crew this was especially hard coming from planet systems which had far shorter day and night cycles. But they were all trained for it.
He had only the last stretch left when he suddenly sensed danger. Someone was coming up from behind … fast. Kenth Hamner twirled round, lightsaber already ignited. A shadow was speeding towards him at an incredible speed. Kenth drew a small portion of the force to him and released it in the direction of the shadow. The shadow crashed into the propelled force matter and was thrown backwards and landed hard on the hallway floor.
Kenth Hamner noticed the cloak and the burning amber eyes under a dark hood. This could only be one of the Sith. Kenth was a Master wielder of the lightsaber and positioned himself in a well proven defensive stance. The cloaked person jumped up from the prone position on the floor and landed just outside Kenth’s reach. A sinister voice came from the cloaked person: ”So, you know a few tricks, but that puny push is nothing to my Sith avalanche.” As he said that he went into a crouch and seemed to concentrate. Kenth could feel the force being drawn from all around him into that dark creature crouching before him. Before Kenth could take action, the cloaked person unleashed whatever he had been powering up and Kent felt a rush of wind around him. His body was then thrown through the air with imaginable force. The power was so furious that it tore up walls along the path that Kenth was sailing. It felt as a runaway space craft running into the hallway, pushing everything along its path of destruction. Kenth never felt the impact that crushed his body to pulp before the force tore through the steel wall that had smashed up Kenth’s body.

Keyan Farlander was ecstatic for being promoted. He had not been long with the Jedi order and being promoted this early could only mean that he was on a path to become one of the great Jedi.
He had barely finished one of his dreamy imaginations of long Jedi robes and wielding a purple lighsaber, yes he would get a purple one, when he saw a dark and cloaked person blocking his pathway. Keyan stopped abruptly. This could be one of the dreaded Sith they were trying to get rid of. Burning amber eyes were glancing at him from under a dark hood. “Ah, if it isn’t our new Padawan. Too bad you need to go.” And by those words the cloaked person lifted hands into the air and released blue energy which lighted the hallway up in cascading flashing whites and blues.
Keyan Farlander hit the ground hard, the cells of his body were being destroyed by electricity and he had no means to counter it or object. Kyan Farlander died on that floor in agonizing spasms.

Den Siva was returning from a previous engagement and was met by a well known member of the crew. Den Siva was a bit surprised, but the member of the crew only wanted to talk about something important. They walked along the hallway towards Den Siva’s cabin. Den Siva was quite tired after the long day and excused himself when they reached his cabin. As Den Siva entered, the crew member seemed to hesitate, then pushed the cabin door open and entered after Den Siva. “I am sorry, but I have to do this. Den Siva felt the cabin spin around him and hit the floor with an agonizing headache. He woke up a bit later not knowing what had happened earlier or that he had talked to someone. And how did he get here?

Obi Wan Kenobi walked towards his cabin when a well known member of the crew joined him. They talked about this and that along the way. The crew member made a gesture towards Obi Wan who went stone cold and hit the floor like a sack of grain. “I am sorry old friend, but this is necessary.”

The night passed and it was yet again morning and the start of a new 24 hour cycle. Obi Wan Kenobi had woke up in the hallway and wondered what had happened to him. He found his place in the auditorium and sat there with a splitting headache.
Qui Gon Jinn entered and declared: We have lost yet two more of our crew. This time, please present a candidate, and a guilty one too when I return. We need to win this people. The Sith can’t best us. The welfare of the universe is at stake here.
As he was talking, a beam of light appeared in the centre of the auditorium. Two beings appeared and it was Yoda and ... Kenth Hamner? Yoda declared: "Be mindful of the force, it will teach you who to vote for this day." Kenth Hamner just nodded and they were gone, as abrupt as they came.

Qui Gon made a final statement before he went: "We lost a Jedi Master and a Padawan last night. I am happy to announce that Jorus C'baoth has been promoted to Jedi Master. I would also like to announce that Streen has been promoted to Padawan. Congratulations!!!!"

23 hours until the end of vote session (23:00 GMT+ Thursday 29th April)

Lynched:

a completely innocent name
TheFlax
Belisarius II
Yaseikhaan
Thermal Mercury
Greyblades

Killed:

Beefy187
Husar
Captain Blackadder
Khazaar
Csargo
Ibn-Khaldun
Methos
Andres
Beskar
Winston Hughes
Chaotix
Sasaki Kojiro
Joooray
Kagemusha
Secura
atheotes
GeneralHankerchief

Force Ghost:

Chaotix
atheotes

Alive:

A Very Super Market
Askthepizzaguy
autolycus
Centurion1
Diamondeye
Diana Abnoba
johnhughthom
splitpersonality
Choxorn
Niklas
pevergreen
Psychonaut
Renata
Subotan
TinCow
White_eyes:D
Yaropolk

Choxorn

04-28-2010, 22:58

So this Sith combo are likely an experienced player, likely from CFC, and a relatively new player. Or two semi-experienced players, one originally from CFC and one from .Org.

Are you suggesting they're Niklas and pever?

It was 7am the day phase just past. So, yeah, way too early for us.

It's probably less friendly for me. It's physically impossible for me to be online before the deadline of 2 PM, at least on weekdays, as it's about 5-10 minutes before I get home from school. When you add in that I rarely have time to come online in the morning, the closest I can be online before the deadline is usually more than 15 hours prior to it.

(EDIT: Sees update)

atheotes and GH are dead? I find it strange for the Sith to kill two of the not-quite-top-suspects-but-still-suspected-guys.

And who's Den Siva, again?

Askthepizzaguy

04-28-2010, 23:03

I sincerely hope someone attempted to block, drain, or investigate Niklas last night. If so, what was the result?

I see two kills again.

Choxorn

04-28-2010, 23:05

Looking back through the thread, Niklas is apparently Den Siva, so someone drained both him AND Psychonaut.

TinCow

04-28-2010, 23:39

TinCow

04-28-2010, 23:41

Sorry, edited a vote post:

Vote: Niklas

Askthepizzaguy

04-29-2010, 00:00

Niklas was active last night... probably busy killing.

Oh yes. That needs to be explained for sure.

Vote: Niklas.

I still think it could have been you who was responsible for this, TinCow. Either you or Niklas, IMO.

autolycus

04-29-2010, 00:04

I'm pretty sure TinCow's clean, atpg. The case against niklas seems quite clear. Vote:Niklas

TinCow

04-29-2010, 00:05

I still think it could have been you who was responsible for this, TinCow. Either you or Niklas, IMO.

You think I made the QT post and then blamed it on Niklas?

NM, I don't even want to know the answer to that.

Askthepizzaguy

04-29-2010, 00:09

You think I made the QT post and then blamed it on Niklas?

NM, I don't even want to know the answer to that.

Yeah, I believe you're capable of that. It's a total compliment. :bow:

But I'm leaning Niklas, and if it is Niklas, then... you're fine!

Husar

04-29-2010, 00:14

It looks like Psychonaut was blocked, which would clear him. Niklas appears to have been drained, which, as far as I am aware, is not the same as a role block. That was likely his lynch immunity being removed from him. Since he is now capable of being lynched, and I still believe he is the stronger of the two options for the 'Dark Lord'...

Vote: Niklas

Also note this bit in the writeup:

Niklas was active last night... probably busy killing.

So apparently same thing happened to both of them, yet one was blocked and the other was active???

You seem to be jumping to quite a few conclusions there...

The thing about coming back from a previous engagement was there before, do you really think sigurd would give the Sith away like that? IMO previous engagement can mean quite a lot.

That doesn't make Niklas innocent but your reasoning looks very flawed to me.

TinCow

04-29-2010, 00:24

So apparently same thing happened to both of them, yet one was blocked and the other was active???

You seem to be jumping to quite a few conclusions there...

The thing about coming back from a previous engagement was there before, do you really think sigurd would give the Sith away like that? IMO previous engagement can mean quite a lot.

That doesn't make Niklas innocent but your reasoning looks very flawed to me.

The actions were most certainly not the same, there are several significant differences that we've seen in past nights.

Night 4:

Count Dooku returned from a previous engagement and was met by a familiar person outside his quarters. “Dooku, we need to talk, let’s enter the privacy of your quarters.” Count Dooku opened the door to his cabin and gestured for the person to enter”.
The person went in and walked over to the living room of this formerly officer’s cabin. He stood there in the middle of the room waiting. Dooku entered: “What was it you wanted to talk to me about?” The person turned around with an accusing stare. “I am sorry, but I have to do this.” And by those words Dooku felt a terrible pain in his mind. He fell to the floor in agony and everything went dark.
Dooku later woke up in his bed with a dried up nose bleed. What had happened to him? And why couldn’t he remember how he got to his cabin?

Beskar confirmed that this was a DRAIN of one of his powers. It matches what happened to Niklas last night.

It happened again to Keyan Farlander (either atheotes or GeneralHankerchief, not sure which) on N7:

Keyan Farlander was met by a familiar person on his way back to his cabin. “Do you mind if I follow along, Keyan?” Keyan looked worried, but said: “Yeah, sure.” They walked in silence to the cabin where Keyan said: “This is me, I guess I’ll see you around.” The other person answered: “Actually, I have something I need to discuss with you in private. Can I come in?” Keyan hesitated but gestured to the other person to enter the cabin. As soon as Keyan had entered also, the other person turned around with an accusing look.
“I need to do this.” Keylan Farlander’s world spinned around and he felt as if his mind was exploding. He fell over and darkness overtook him. He later woke up with a headache and with no recollection of how he had got to his cabin.

This action is identical to what happened to Niklas and Beskar told us it was a drain of a power. Since in the last day phase there were multiple people talking about how Niklas' lynch immunity should be drained from him, it seems like a pretty basic logical step to assume that is what actually happened. :rolleyes:

As for the block, it also happened before, on N8 to whoever is Belth Allusis:

Belth Allusis returned to his quarters when he met up with a fellow Jedi. They walked together a little while discussing the resent events, when the other fellow Jedi suddenly made a gesture. Belth went blank and sagged to the floor unconscious. His life vitals were reduced to a bare minimum to keep his body alive. The fellow Jedi hurried back the way they had walked.

Note that both Belth and Obi-wan are specifically noted as waking up the next morning and barely making it to the meeting. That is very different from what happened to the rest of them. The first power is a drain, the second is a block.

As for previous engagements, it just means (IMHO) that the person was active that night. As far as I am aware, Niklas has not claimed the ability to do anything at night, and he has a low-ranking role. He shouldn't have any powers that should let him do night actions, so simply being active at all is an indication that he's lying.

Askthepizzaguy

04-29-2010, 00:29

As far as I am aware, Niklas has not claimed the ability to do anything at night, and he has a low-ranking role. He shouldn't have any powers that should let him do night actions, so simply being active at all is an indication that he's lying.

I have a tough time placing my vote anywhere else until this part is resolved. I highly doubt I'd be convinced anyway.

Renata

04-29-2010, 00:35

Most likely (regarding the previous engagement), though I'd really like to wait for the results to come back before drawing any conclusions. (And did Beskar do an investigation that night? I think he did, but I'm not positive.) The only other thing that might account for the difference is if Niklas was targeted twice last night, and one of those didn't show up in the write-up, the way that Beskar's did not. If it counted as a previous engagement for Beskar, possibly it would for Niklas as well. However, anything like that must also wait for Chaotix or someone to come forward with results.

I have a problem with the idea of what happened to Psychonaut being a roleblock, though. The issue is timing. The night that Beskar died, Chaotix was trying to take a power from him. This failed. Chaotix was shown arriving to find a dead body (effectively). The same thing happened with Atris a few nights later. (Same night as the proposed roleblock happened to Keyan Farlander.) Presumably these then were actions by the same person, and in any case they clearly took place *after* the killings.

The "roleblock" takes place in the writeup even after those actions. How can it be a roleblock?

Diana Abnoba

04-29-2010, 00:55

Niklas is Den Siva, and it states in write up that he was busy last night. I also think that this was a power drain, in the write up. I think he is the Sith Lord.

Vote: Niklas

( I wonder if this is like other games in that if we kill the Sith Lord (GF) then the other mafia are dead as well. I hope so!!)

TinCow

04-29-2010, 00:58

Just realized something else, Den Siva (Niklas) started as an Initiate and has only advanced to Padawan. He claims the Force Breath Control ability, which prevents a single lynching. That seems like a very powerful ability, too powerful for a Padawan. Since Beskar had that ability, he should be able to tell us what rank that ability was for. If Force Breath Control is an ability of Knight rank or higher, that should be all the evidence we need.

Diana Abnoba

04-29-2010, 01:04

Yes, forgot about that, it does seem to be a higher level power. I would think only a Master level.

Renata

04-29-2010, 01:20

Actually it is padawan level -- Beskar will confirm, but that's information I have from him.

atheotes

04-29-2010, 01:31

Actually it is padawan level -- Beskar will confirm, but that's information I have from him.

Niklas did claim that in-thread as well. I dont think he would have claimed if it wasnt true.

Askthepizzaguy

04-29-2010, 01:38

Actually it is padawan level -- Beskar will confirm, but that's information I have from him.

Makes sense. Obi-Wan was still a padawan in Episode I and he used breath control against the Dioxys.

Chaotix

04-29-2010, 02:39

Vote: Niklas

Please give Psychonaut a pass right now.

The Council of Jedi Masters is experiencing a credibility gap at the moment. I do not trust either Obi-Wan or Qui-Gon right now, because they were both seemingly engaged in the same action two nights ago. Kenth Hamner, however, is to be completely trusted. :clown:

naut

04-29-2010, 02:44

As for previous engagements, it just means (IMHO) that the person was active that night. As far as I am aware, Niklas has not claimed the ability to do anything at night, and he has a low-ranking role. He shouldn't have any powers that should let him do night actions, so simply being active at all is an indication that he's lying.
To me this makes perfect sense. :yes: But, waiting for the actual results may be best, because we may be misinterpreting the write-up.

Now, it seems the Sith really were scared of me. Naaaaw, poor little Sith with their tails between their legs, naaaaaaw. ~:pat: I'm still alive, and I'm keeping my word.

Vote: Psychonaut

Renata

04-29-2010, 02:48

Were you roleblocked, Psychonaut?

Renata

04-29-2010, 02:57

BTW the question of whether or not that was a roleblock should not be answered until Psychonaut has responded.

naut

04-29-2010, 03:09

Were you roleblocked, Psychonaut?
I don't know. I didn't use an ability last night. Masters can:

As an upgrade to all Jedi Masters – you can now use two force abilities on the same person, whether it is yourself, against one other or against attackers.

So I didn't do anything, as I have two defensive abilities. I was waiting for the Sith to attack me. But, they didn't, so I didn't use anything last night.

I certainly wasn't drained, I still have all my abilities.

Choxorn

04-29-2010, 03:51

I think there's been more than enough in-thread evidence to make this the best lynch:

Vote: Niklas

Niklas

04-29-2010, 10:38

This is getting beyond ridiculous, and extremely tiresome. Not sure how much more fight I still have in me, I guess the day will tell. I will try to restrain myself though.

I haven't received a PM from Sigurd yet saying what happened to me, I can only assume this is to do with his memory stick problem. But it shouldn't take a genius to figure out that I got what I asked for - that my lynch immunity was drained while I was at the same time investigated, using the Drain Knowledge power that Chaotix used on Beskar. What happened to the result of that investigation? I expected to come here and be redeemed, instead the vultures are gathering once more. Why isn't the result of my investigation made public? There should be at least one person out there who now knows I am not Sith, will you please come forward? If this is not made public, HoS on whoever did that investigation. You are actively fueling a mis-lynch.

Since Chaotix said Drain Knowledge was a Grandmaster ability, that presumably means Qui-Gon did it. I can understand why you don't want to reveal, but surely there are enough accomplices (like Chaotix) who could relay the information for you.

I also don't have a clue what "previous engagement" I may have been involved in. I don't have any night actions, so I can only assume that I was either investigated by someone else as well (where's the result of that scan, if so?), or that I was called to the holocron (though this writeup doesn't mention the usual meditating Jedi routine). I eagerly await a PM from Sigurd to find out. But regardless, do you honestly believe that Sigurd would give away a killer in a write-up? I marvel at the collective deductive capacity on display.

I find Psychonaut's behavior this day just as suspicious as previously, and I honestly think we should take him up on his offer to be lynched. All his WIFOM is beyond suspicious to me. He would definitely have my vote, but with Chaotix asking us to "give him a pass" I don't expect we can pile enough votes on him. I would very much like to know the reasons for letting him be though - why is that not made public?

I was scanned last night, and Psycho should be spared. That means we should default to the third candidate:

vote: pevergreen

Diamondeye

04-29-2010, 11:46

I tend to think Renata - and everyone else - are correct in assuming that Niklas/Den Siva is in fact among the sith. Therefore, I will vote:Niklas. I don't see how it makes him the sith lord, though.

Looking forward to hearing if Chaotix/Yoda can figure out what powerroles he can and can't trust. The game might depend on that.

Beskar

04-29-2010, 11:56

I also don't have a clue what "previous engagement" I may have been involved in. I don't have any night actions, so I can only assume that I was either investigated by someone else as well (where's the result of that scan, if so?), or that I was called to the holocron (though this writeup doesn't mention the usual meditating Jedi routine). I eagerly await a PM from Sigurd to find out. But regardless, do you honestly believe that Sigurd would give away a killer in a write-up? I marvel at the collective deductive capacity on display.

That only came up in mine because i investigated that night, which was Askthepizzaguy.

If you went to visit the holocron, you know have gained more powers, since you said you don't know, you ruled out that reasoning as you haven't gained any.

Beskar

04-29-2010, 11:58

Also, I would like to point out, why does Splitpersonality and Choxorn have a blackened name in the alive list?

Askthepizzaguy

04-29-2010, 12:05

Also, I would like to point out, why does Splitpersonality and Choxorn have a blackened name in the alive list?

They replaced players who were WOG'ed and had blue names as such.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?127629-StarWars-Mafia-RotS-Summary-and-information-thread&p=2477576&viewfull=1#post2477576

Then, there was no need to highlight their names in blue anymore so Sigurd switched the color to black instead of hitting the Remove Text Formatting button, which turned it the color Black instead of returning to the standard color which is off-black.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?127629-StarWars-Mafia-RotS-Summary-and-information-thread&p=2478098&viewfull=1#post2478098

Husar

04-29-2010, 12:08

Also, I would like to point out, why does Splitpersonality and Choxorn have a blackened name in the alive list?

Aren't they replacements?

Or do you think Sigurd accidentally marked the sith black?

Sigurd

04-29-2010, 12:19

Ah, you guys are using the new forum skin with yellow text?

Fixing ...

fixed, but only in the summary thread, where you aught to read the results.

Winston Hughes

04-29-2010, 12:22

Actually it is padawan level -- Beskar will confirm, but that's information I have from him.

For what it's worth, I can confirm this beyond any doubt, since I got this ability myself and was still a padawan when I got murdered the following night.

Askthepizzaguy

04-29-2010, 12:22

I've mine set to "The Guild" which has sort of black 95% text, but not 100% black. The difference is noticeable if you're looking for it.

Beskar

04-29-2010, 12:22

Or do you think Sigurd accidentally marked the sith black?

I almost did consider that. :laugh4: Would have been extremely funny, if so.

Same as ATPG for me.

Sigurd

04-29-2010, 12:35

Announcement: I have also updated last night's results.

Beskar

04-29-2010, 12:45

Still says "Den Siva was returning from a previous engagement". So looks like that wasn't the mistake.

Renata

04-29-2010, 13:10

Well, Chaotix does report a result now; I had a PM when I woke up.

Niklas is mafia.

vote: Niklas

Psychonaut can wait -- I still have a number of concerns about him, but some of them need cross-checking. I have PMs from him whose contents I'll make public sometime today, since Niklas has seen them anyway.

Maybe one day I'll get over my embarrassment.

Sasaki Kojiro

04-29-2010, 13:18

Beskar

04-29-2010, 13:28

Well, if Niklas is mafia, I called it first - link (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2468717&viewfull=1#post2468717) :laugh4:

I think some one tipped him off that i was investigating him though, that is why I got killed.

naut

04-29-2010, 13:56

Well, Chaotix does report a result now; I had a PM when I woke up.

Niklas is mafia.

vote: Niklas
Not too suprised. Can Chaotix personally confirm in thread please. No offence, Renata, but I'd like to Chaotix too personally state the results, his word > than your word.

pevergreen

04-29-2010, 15:07

lol

Vote: Niklas

GeneralHankerchief

04-29-2010, 15:22

Hmm, I'd like to thank the Sith for killing me during finals.

Good luck town, I'll be around to help out starting Monday probably.

Renata

04-29-2010, 15:56

I'm going to post most of Psychonaut's PMs to me. Niklas has nearly all of them, anyway, so it doesn't matter, and maybe it will help shed some light on things. I'm only going to leave out what he said about his visit to the holocron a couple of nights ago (in case he is innocent), and the information he gives about who might or might not be susceptible to recruitment. (Too subject to WIFOM in the case of those who are susceptible; and only makes any who are not even more of a target to have it known publicly. Not to mention if he is mafia, it may not be accurate.)

First contact:

My ability is:

Force Sight (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_Sight)

Each night I am able to see what happens over the ship. I do not get the complete picture, I get a jumble of what is either useless fluff, role names, alignments/susceptibility, minor occurrences and possibly major occurrences. Essentially, a very inaccurate and incomplete investigation.

Some of my odd behaviour is a result of this, trying to piece together pieces of information that may or may not make sense, or may or may not be useful. Like my insistence of Beskar being neutral was due to my results from Night 2, they suggested Dooku struggling with a internal conflict, so I read this to be that he was neither Sith nor Jedi, which I now realise was probably incorrect.

Of those in my list, yes, most are from in thread, however, the following names have appeared in my results:

Daye Azur-Jamin - Captain Blackadder
Yoda - Chaotix
Dooku - Beskar
Koffi Arana - Winston Hughes
Qui-Gon Jinn
Palpatine - my results suggest he has Force Cloak (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_cloak), so I know he exists, but my own or any other investigative abilities may not correctly identify him.
Luke Skywalker
Sifo Dyas
Atris
Corran Horn
Micah Giiett

Trying to match people with their roles is difficult, because it isn't explicit. For example, I received in my Night 1 results a suggestion that Blackadder as one of three Jedi, potentially Luke Skywalker, when in fact I had misinterpreted the results and he was in fact Daye Azur-Jamin.

I wish I could share the result PMs as many eyes would make light work, but I specifically cannot as my ability is, in the canon, a mental ability and also doing so is not particularly sportsmanlike (being able to transmit exact thoughts, yes perhaps some Jedi can, but not perception).

Most of this is innocuous or even slightly suggestive of innocence (like the explanation for the weird suggestion that Beskar might be neutral). But the last sentence pings: Sigurd has put very few restrictions on information sharing, yet Psychonaut "specifically cannot" share his result PMs. I don't know what that's supposed to mean if not that Sigurd has put a restriction on him specifically, which seems inconsistent with the rest of the game.

I responded with a few questions, including that he had missed out Tahiri Veila from his list (who happens to be me -- again Niklas already knows this :shame: ), and got this as a response:

It's late here and I really need sleep. I need to be more awake to give you a proper response, so if you don't mind I'll do so in the morning.

Also:

Finally, you seem to be missing a name. Tahiri Veila was in Niklas' "not in write-ups/not obvious" category, which should mean you should not have that name available to you unless it turned up in your results. Given the omission, please tell me as much as you can about how and what you know about that role, along with the two mentioned above.
Clerical error on my part, it's at the bottom of my notes and upon copying and pasting I missed it.

Quite a coincidence that, especially given that by this point another day's results had been added since the time Psychonaut first gave Beskar the list with my name in it. Did the information on me actually come from Niklas directly, and that's why Psychonaut left it out?

There was then the delay in response I mentioned in the thread (and Psychonaut's explanation of an exam he had to take). Here's what he had to say when he did respond. Note that by this time Palpatine ('khaan) had been lynched without resistance.

Can you tell me roughly what your results were on the dead players minus Yoda and Dooku, and on what night they turned up in your results? (That is, Captain Blackadder and Winston Hughes.) Also, assuming that Palpatine is the force killer, there should still be one other "jedi" active every single night out killing people. Were any of the people on your list plausibly connected to that?

Night 1:
Captain Blackadder (Daye Azur-Jamin) - reference to lack of formal training, (followed up by Blackadder himself posting in thread about how he taught himself), I then contacted him to see if he was Luke Skywalker or Kyle Katarn, he replied saying he was neither. I drew the conclusion.
Possible Dooku reference, implications about him as an instructor at the Jedi Temple.
Luke Skywalker - seems to have found a holocron.
Fluff about holocrons.

Night 2:
Chaotix (Yoda) - witnessed him walking down a hallway, I couldn't make out what he was doing, his appearance is mentioned.
Beskar (Dooku) - struggles with internal conflicts, anger, which I took to mean he was neutral/recruitable. Probably look back on it, it was another reference to his time before he joined the dark side.
Corran Horn - probable reference to purity.

Night 3:
Qui-Gon Jinn - seems if I find him my "understanding" may improve.
Sifo Dyas - ***************
Yeseikhaan (Palpatine) - complete misinterpretation on my part, what appeared to be a cloaking, a hidden aspect to him was probably just a reference to him being Sith susceptible.
Yoda, jumble of semi-incoherent sentences, one stands out is a quote "Meditate on this, I will." followed by clear your mind of chaos.

Night 4:
Atris, fluff, fluff, fluff. I have no idea what is or is not relevant here.
Tahiri Veila, nothing much, the role name, an obscure reference.
Yoda again, this time his actions against Dooku.
Possible Anakin Skywalker reference, or a reference to the lightsaber Sith.

Night 5:
Winston Hughes (Koffi Arana) - it appears I essentially witnessed his death. The reference to his killer is strange, it could indicate Darth Wyyrlok.
Micah Giiett - ************* Nothing significant.
Reference to force ghosts.

Night 6:
Githany - **************
Qui-Gon Jinn - I seem to be trying to reach out to him. His back is turned.
Reference to only two Sith.
Possible Thermal Mercury reference, planets come up somewhat readily.

There are some underlying themes, specifically eyes, and eye colour. There are some links that could relate to player names as well, but I may simply be misinterpreting it, I don't really want to speculate, at this stage. If anything Githany ***************************

I'll double check my notes to see if I've missed anything.

The mentions of Qui-Gon Jinn stood out as a possible fishing attempt, obviously (which Niklas was ever so kind to point out when I spoke to him about it, but then, it wouldn't be the first time he's been "helpful" like that regarding a mafia teammate). The backtracking on Palpatine is also interesting -- I thought at the time it might be designed to imply that an actually-guity Yaseikhaan was not, because Psychonaut voted AVSM that day. But now I think it's just as possible that Yaseikhaan was not mafia, in which case the backtracking would serve a dual purpose: take attention away from Psychonaut (and Niklas') actually-meaningless votes for AVSM over 'Khaan, and also remove the smear on the role of Palpatine that Psychonaut had included in his previous PM to me.

I starting fishing a bit to find out just how much Psychonaut really wanted to contact Qui-Gon Jinn (if he were town, you'd think he'd be really eager to find him, right?) and also asked about the "obscure reference" he mentioned in connection to my role. I wasn't thinking about any connection to Niklas at that point, obviously, but my long-standing questions about the nature of his professed ability itself had me thinking that much of what he'd told me might be made up out of whole cloth, in which case he might have difficulty coming up with anything that related directly to information in my own PM.

OK, read this over, a couple of thoughts.

I'm still not 100% sure what to think about you. Just got killed off in Inishmore, and I'm not thinking straight. But I don't intend to push for you to be lynched today, and most likely by the time I'm able to fully participate again (weekends are always bad for me), it will have shaken out one way or the other. I may have more questions in a bit, though; I'm too brain-fried to remember what I had wanted to ask.

As for the content of what you said:
You obviously want to find Qui-Gon Jinn. Assuming for the moment you are town, don't even ask me how you should best go about doing that.

I'm Tahiri Veila. If you tell me what the "obscure reference" was, it's possible I might be able to shed some light on what some of the stuff you're getting refers to -- I have a theory.
Well I assume you are a Jedi Knight, and it could be that ***********************

Also, last night the name Lar Le'Ung appeared, appears to be a sleeping knight.

Three things:
-- no response to the Qui-Gon fishing
-- i'm not a Knight, I'm a padawan. (The deleted bits, btw, are nothing that couldn't be derived from a quick glance at Wookiepedia.) I've never been able to figure out why Psychonaut would get that wrong if it came straight from Sigurd. It does make some sense if it instead came from Niklas, because Niklas knew I'm a padawan -- disguise the source of the information maybe? Except:
-- Lar Le'Ung was also not a knight, but an initiate. So I'm not sure what's going on here. What's more interesting is that not long after this PM (the same game day), Psychonaut accused Greyblades -- who was Lar Le'Ung! Another coincidence, and a heck of a big one, though the motives for him to do this if he's mafia get a bit convoluted. Possibly he was hoping to be around to "save" Greyblades from his own accusation himself once GB role revealed; possibly he was setting me up to do so, in either case as a means of gaining some badly-needed townie cred. Or possibly he had no idea who Lar Le'Ung was, and it really was a coincidence.

Finally, one last attempt to get him to commit to actually wanting to contact Qui-Gon Jinn, to which he responded:

I'm not sure if that fits my theory or not -- I thought maybe you were getting stuff out of the background information that Sigurd provided, but what you've said is too vague to tell.

How do you plan to contact Qui-Gon Jinn? As of right now it would seem you're under too much suspicion for him to really want to. What do he/you stand to gain from it?
Plausible, I would say they could be somewhat related.

Hopefully a hint will pop up. If not, it doesn't matter too much. The main issue is getting the correct lynches. And I get the feeling that Greyblades is just that, the correct lynch.
This is one instance in which I think most townies would fish, and fish hard, to find out if I knew anything about Jinn or had any way of finding out. But he didn't.

A couple more points in the next post.

autolycus

04-29-2010, 16:35

Wait, if I read the write-up right, Obi-wan was blocked last night. Doesn't that mean he's innocent?

Renata

04-29-2010, 16:40

There are some suggestive connections between Niklas and Psychonaut, given the circumstances of this game. First, see the post Beskar linked a few comments up. It's the post in which he accuses Niklas way back on day one. Who's jokingly defending Niklas? Psychonaut. Then there's Psychonaut's big push to get Niklas lynched on the same day that Yaseikhaan ultimately died. This would be nonsensical, *except for* Niklas' lynch immunity, which he'd had for a day or two by then. Niklas was already getting heat -- it's far from unreasonable (nor atypical to Niklas' high-risk playstyle) to assume he might seek to gain town credit for himself by having his teammate assist in proving the one aspect of his role that could be proven. Finally, Niklas' reaction to the idea that Psychonaut was scummy was a bit inconsistent. He called my assertion that Psychonaut's suggestion that Khaan was suspicious "far-fetched" as a possible bussing attempt -- which it was, admittedly -- but then ALSO characterized as far-fetched my theory that Psychonaut's subsequent vote-switch from Niklas to AVSM (which was completely backwards to his previously-stated statement of greater suspicion for Khaan than for AVSM) was intended to save 'Khaan. Which maybe in fact it was! - if Khaan was not mafia. But I couldn't know that. Niklas shouldn't have been able to know that. And so it didn't deserve the label of far-fetched. And regardless, Psychonaut's self-contradiction in the space of a few posts is a classic mafia tell. This is one of the only things Niklas ever said to me in private that pinged, though I haven't been able to make full sense of it until now. Or at least I think I have.

Not long after that Niklas was fully on the Psychonaut bandwagon, which as I've stated before would clearly be the right play for him if he and Psychonaut are both mafia, particularly with recruitment as a possibility after Psychonaut's inevitable outing and death.

Finally, the probable lies from Psychonaut as regards his visit to the holocron and what it did to his usual Force Sight ability. I think if every other piece of evidence I have on him is ignored, this should not be. Beskar flat-out contradicted the idea that a holocron visit would interrupt the use of investigation abilities. Somebody else is saying they visited the holocon themselves that same night, and only one person is shown in the write-up as having done so. The preponderance of evidence says that it is Psychonaut who is lying.

Now, the evidence in Psychonaut's favor, which boils down to: one single, solitary roleblock (which Chaotix confirmed it was, if no one else has mentioned). Assuming the roleblock ability itself is real despite the timing issues, then the only way Psychonaut could be mafia is if he is roleblock-immune. I see no reason to fully assume that he is not, whatever the write-up may say about hallways and headaches, and whatever the likelihood that this is all a case of some horrible confirmation bias. (But the lie about the holocron can't be bias.) I would like Psychonaut investigated tonight, to settle this one way or the other. Absolutely worst case, Niklas and Psychonaut are both innocent, and this is some plot cooked up by a mafia Qui-Gon Jinn and whoever the roleblocker is. But Chaotix has that information, and hopefully can sort through the possibilities tomorrow if Psychonaut is reported as being mafia and the game does not subsequently end.

I think he needs to be investigated.

Niklas

04-29-2010, 16:44

Well, if Niklas is mafia, I called it first - link (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2468717&viewfull=1#post2468717) :laugh4:
O RLY? (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2468525&viewfull=1#post2468525) :clown:

Niklas

04-29-2010, 17:14

Impressive effort, Renata. :2thumbsup:

Beskar

04-29-2010, 17:14

NOOOO Busted by Sasaki again!!!!

Also, you forgot something, Renata. The Sith could have two night-actions. Only one night-action was role-blocked.

TinCow

04-29-2010, 17:17

This is one instance in which I think most townies would fish, and fish hard, to find out if I knew anything about Jinn or had any way of finding out. But he didn't.

You're saying Psychonaut is scummy because he wasn't trying to figure out Qui-Gon's identity? :inquisitive:

Secura

04-29-2010, 17:20

You're saying Psychonaut is scummy because he wasn't trying to figure out Qui-Gon's identity? :inquisitive:

The PMs between them both mention that he would need to find Qui-Gon to extend his learning or something, don't they?

If I had a PM saying "find Jedi Master Dooku and you'll learn from him", I'd have done so without a shadow of a doubt... might not have died as an Initiate if that had been the case.

atheotes

04-29-2010, 17:21

NOOOO Busted by Sasaki again!!!!

Also, you forgot something, Renata. The Sith could have two night-actions. Only one night-action was role-blocked.

that is a strong possibility given that Jedi masters were upgraded to use 2 actions.

Renata

04-29-2010, 17:21

In looking at my PMs again just now I noticed I actually TOLD Niklas that I'd be fishing, so ... Yeah. :shame: But even disregarding that - the original post set the bait. I certainly would have expected a legit townie to respond differently than Psychonaut did.

TinCow

04-29-2010, 17:23

The PMs between them both mention that he would need to find Qui-Gon to extend his learning or something, don't they?

If I had a PM saying "find Jedi Master Dooku and you'll learn from him", I'd have done so without a shadow of a doubt... might not have died as an Initiate if that had been the case.

Please point out where it says that, all I can find it this:

Qui-Gon Jinn - I seem to be trying to reach out to him. His back is turned.

which looks like Psychonaut giving a brief summary of the descriptive elements of his results PM.

[edit] NM, I see it:

Qui-Gon Jinn - seems if I find him my "understanding" may improve.

Yes, that it interesting. I'll have to study the case closer.

Secura

04-29-2010, 17:27

Please point out where it says that.

I was suggesting this part:

Night 3:
Qui-Gon Jinn - seems if I find him my "understanding" may improve.

Not surprising, considering Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan's master-padawan relationship... but why has Psychonaut made no in-roads to finding Qui-Gon? That is why it seems scummy to people, I believe.

Renata

04-29-2010, 17:30

Impressive effort, Renata. :2thumbsup:

Thank you for saying you'll keep me around as lynch bait. I truly appreciate it. :2thumbsup:

WIFOM, holla!

Yaropolk

04-29-2010, 17:39

vote: niklas same as my vote last 2 rounds

Renata

04-29-2010, 17:50

Also, Sasaki pretty much wins forever for pretending to have an investigation result on Niklas in the very first post of the very first day of the game.

naut

04-29-2010, 18:12

@ Renata: The only response I will give is a Tribesman like: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

You're like the school teacher who keeps trying to catch the limbless diabetic kid with his hands in the cookie jar. And like that diabetic kid, I have no hands and I'm not interested in cookies.

Renata

04-29-2010, 18:15

:bow: We will know tomorrow, Psychonaut. At least we will if anyone listens to me.

Niklas

04-29-2010, 18:19

:bow: We will know tomorrow, Psychonaut. At least we will if anyone listens to me.
At least we will if anyone listens to me. :bow:

naut

04-29-2010, 18:58

At least we will if anyone listens to me.
This is why non-one should listen to you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY

:wink2:

Sigurd

04-29-2010, 22:16

No more votes??

Alrighty then .. voting ended.

Sigurd

04-29-2010, 22:27

Round 10

Night

The crew was eagerly awaiting the arrival of Grand Master Qui Gon Jinn. They had swiftly put a candidate to the tally and nearly all had voted in unison. Qui Gon had a quick look at the tally and smiled. “You have done well. I believe you have chosen correctly. Would the Padawan called Den Siva please come forward.” A lanky Nagai stood up and walked down the aisle between rows of seated Jedi. Qui Gon continued: “I made a visit with you last night, which you might not remember.” Den Siva looked inquisitively at Qui Gon and stopped. “You might not remember me removing the one thing that could have saved you today. Your ability to control your body and survive in extreme conditions Den Siva or should I say; Darth Nihl !!!” Den Siva hissed and sprang forward, igniting his lightsaber which he shouldn’t have had as a Padawan. The crowd gasped when they saw the colour of it. Crimson plasma swooshed trough the air trying to find Qui Gon’s flesh. But the green lightsaber of Qui Gon was there and blocked all Den Siva’s attempts at striking him down. Qui-Gon finally flicked the sabre out of Den Siva’s hands and it was obvious that he hadn’t practised much with it. Seeing his lightsabre rolling on the floor, Den Siva stretched his hands forth and blue energy came cackling from them. One of the Jedi Knights reacted and deflected the lightning with the force, while another Jedi Knight used the force to lift Den Siva into the air and slam him against the wall. Several other lightsabers in the hues of green, yellow and blue sprang to life as Jedi Knights and Masters encircled the broken Den Siva.
Den Siva looked defiantly at them with eyes glowing like amber: “My Master will not make Palpatine's mistake. All Jedi must die!!!!”

They took hold of Den Siva and dragged him out into the hangar where they promptly disposed of him out through the space barrier. The eyes of Den Siva glowed pure hatred as he floated outside the hangar bay. They soon lost the amber color and returned to normal as the body died in the freezing space vacuum. The dead body was retrieved and put together with the others in the morgue.

As they gathered together in the auditorium again, a bright light was appearing at the centre of it. Darth Nihl stood there gloating: “You thought you would get rid of me this easy. Be not mistaken, The Sith will prevail.” And by that he disappeared into thin air.

It is night time ... orders in by 22:00 GMT+1 (23 hours from now). The night ends at 23:00 GMT+1 Friday 30th of April (24 hours from now).

Tally:

Niklas: 10 (ATPG, autolycus, Chaotix, Choxorn, Diamondeye, Diana, pever, Renata, TinCow, Yaropolk)
Psychonaut: 1 (Psychonaut)
pever: 1 (Niklas)

Not voting: 7 (atheotes, AVSM, Centurion1, johnhugh, split, Subotan, WE:D)

Lynched:

a completely innocent name
TheFlax
Belisarius II
Yaseikhaan
Thermal Mercury
Greyblades
Niklas

Killed:

Beefy187
Husar
Captain Blackadder
Khazaar
Csargo
Ibn-Khaldun
Methos
Andres
Beskar
Winston Hughes
Chaotix
Sasaki Kojiro
Joooray
Kagemusha
Secura
atheotes
GeneralHankerchief

Force Ghost:

Chaotix
atheotes
Niklas

Alive:

YLC
Askthepizzaguy
autolycus
Centurion1
Choxorn
Diamondeye
Diana Abnoba
johnhughthom
pevergreen
Psychonaut
Renata
splitpersonality
Subotan
TinCow
White_eyes:D
Yaropolk

atheotes

04-29-2010, 22:37

Force Ghost:

Chaotix
atheotes
Niklas
:shocked: what purpose could this serve for Niklas? I am concerned.

I thought i voted...apparently not :embarassed:

Askthepizzaguy

04-29-2010, 22:45

Excellent.

Well it seems that we may have been mistaken about Yaseikhaan... utterly baffling why Palpatine would be anything but a Sith. But it seems clear that we will be informed when we destroy a Sith.

johnhughthom

04-29-2010, 22:48

My reading of the write up makes me believe Palpatine was a Sith. Perhaps the write up for Palpatine's death was intended to confuse us?

Askthepizzaguy

04-29-2010, 22:52

My reading of the write up makes me believe Palpatine was a Sith. Perhaps the write up for Palpatine's death was intended to confuse us?

Yes, on re-read I think maybe you're correct. It's possible Yaseikhaan had an ability to mask his true allegiance even in death. It's not that unusual for Khaan to not even bother after he's dead, I don't think. Plus we were pretty convinced he could only be a Sith, so any attempts at deception wouldn't be very effective anyway.

It's pretty moot unless he came back to life somehow.

Renata

04-29-2010, 22:55

It read the opposite to me -- Palpatine made a mistake, wanting Jedi to live, hence wasn't Sith. But I suppose it could go either way.

YLC is in the game, I see, replacing AVSM. Hiya YLC. :)

Diamondeye

04-29-2010, 23:06

I'm glad we caught a sith - and worried that it was, by the looks of it, the apprentice and not the master.

We should keep our eyes peeled for the next writeup in case of a conversion, obviously. Whoever roleblocked Obi-Wan last night had better strike true tonight so we can wrap this thing up.

Renata

04-29-2010, 23:08

I missed that atheotes was now a force ghost, and I really should have known that Niklas would be. :laugh4:

Sigurd

04-29-2010, 23:26

Announcement:
YLC will be playing as AVSM's character from this post and onwards.

Husar

04-30-2010, 01:09

Well done, now the question is who is that master?
And does Niklas being an official force ghost (I'll consider myself the really cool unoffical underground force ghost now) mean he can still vote like Chaotix?
Or can he do something else? This is sooo exciting! ~;)

Beskar

04-30-2010, 01:31

The ghost can possess another player? Would be interesting, if so. Rather like the EU story involving the Jedi Academy on Yavin 4.

Diana Abnoba

04-30-2010, 02:31

Yeah!!!!! Now to find the Sith Lord!

White_eyes:D

04-30-2010, 04:03

Well, now the *Rule of Two* is going to come into play....ATPG, do you think you well be recruited?(be honest:grin2:)

“You thought you would get rid of me this easy. Be not mistaken, The Sith will prevail.”
I am hoping that my theory about this is wrong....or we might be in more trouble then I care to be in.....:sweatdrop:

Kagemusha

04-30-2010, 04:05

Great to see Sith catched. I would suggest people to look for the past two rounds for abnormal behaviour of the other players to find the other one.

Sasaki Kojiro

04-30-2010, 04:06

Niklas has been under fire before. I think a look at that round could probably come in handy.

naut

04-30-2010, 06:01

It's not that unusual for Khaan to not even bother after he's dead, I don't think.
I disagree, often he sticks around and makes disruptive posts, especially when he has a Mafia/anti-town role. So I'm inclined to think that his role-name is simply a red herring. It could be possible that Sigurd added quite a few roles which are potential dark Jedi or roles that in the fluff end up as Sith to discourage sharing of role names and the setting up of networks. :2cents:

Askthepizzaguy

04-30-2010, 07:02

Well, now the *Rule of Two* is going to come into play....ATPG, do you think you well be recruited?(be honest:grin2:)

I don't know what will happen, so as my potentially last act as an honest Jedi, allow me to say this: Look for the person who is recruiting. Playing whack-a-mole with the recruits is dumb. Since I am already known not to be the recruiter, deal with me afterward. My best guess is that the recruited Sith will be weaker or themselves unable to recruit. Seek out the Sith Lord, then deal with the apprentices.

@Sith-

I won't bother playing the WIFOM game, so I'll just state it plainly: I'm not going to be lynched anytime soon, and I'd really rather not die on the same side as the Sith in failure. So for the love of peaches, kill me now. Otherwise you'll have to deal with my vote, and you know as well as I do that I'm not going to be voting for a lot of the innocent parties. It's a good move for the Sith, beats the alternative, and it grants my wish of not having to get dragged down with you. Come and fight me you sniveling cowards. I'm a Jedi Knight, I'm just going to learn defensive abilities, so get it while you can.

Niklas

04-30-2010, 10:38

Come and fight me you sniveling cowards.
Ibn-Khaldun was brave when issuing his challenge, I'll give him that. Secura just had a death wish. Psychonaut was just silly, but I think you take the prize. :juggle2:

Andres

04-30-2010, 10:43

Ibn-Khaldun was brave when issuing his challenge, I'll give him that. Secura just had a death wish. Psychonaut was just silly, but I think you take the prize. :juggle2:

Oh, you get to play the confirmed mafioso role. I'm so jealous. Obfuscating and playing mind games with the townies is sooo much fun. You're so lucky.

Niklas

04-30-2010, 10:45

Oh, you get to play the confirmed mafioso role. I'm so jealous. Obfuscating and playing mind games with the townies is sooo much fun. You're so lucky.
Yeah, I know! I can't stop smiling... :evilgrin:

Renata

04-30-2010, 11:37

Niklas has been under fire before. I think a look at that round could probably come in handy.

As long as people keep in mind his lynch immunity, which IIRC dated from about night three (look for Den Siva's promotion in the write-ups).

Askthepizzaguy

04-30-2010, 11:45

TinCow

04-30-2010, 12:01

I'm hesitant to look back on Niklas' posts and people's reaction to him just yet. In my experience those were designed to be deceptive, and what happens is you get an idea in your head, and then you go off on that idea and because you have that idea, you discount all the other ideas.

A mind is a terrible thing to waste with something as distracting as an idea.

That's fine, be as hesitant as you want. I'll do it for you.

Subotan

04-30-2010, 12:01

So basically ATPG, you're saying we shoould all follow your opinion.

Kagemusha

04-30-2010, 12:02

I'm hesitant to look back on Niklas' posts and people's reaction to him just yet. In my experience those were designed to be deceptive, and what happens is you get an idea in your head, and then you go off on that idea and because you have that idea, you discount all the other ideas.

A mind is a terrible thing to waste with something as distracting as an idea.

Well is there anything else worth mentioning that brains create, other then ideas? Now im sorry to say, but if we cant find a Sith next round with our ideas.Then it is you we have to settle with and lynch.

Askthepizzaguy

04-30-2010, 12:14

Well is there anything else worth mentioning that brains create, other then ideas? Now im sorry to say, but if we cant find a Sith next round with our ideas.Then it is you we have to settle with and lynch.

See how insidious an idea can get, once it creeps inside your head? :beam:

The more you focus on me, the less objectively you see the others. But fine, do as you please. If you find something TinCow, go for it. I'll keep my head free of Niklas' WIFOM, and you'll examine it. Maybe one of us will come up with a decent lead.

Renata

04-30-2010, 12:53

I checked and Niklas' promotion was reported at the start of round 3.

Secura

04-30-2010, 12:58

Secura just had a death wish.

Mainly because I couldn't be bothered playing after Beskar died.

Niklas

04-30-2010, 13:28

I checked and Niklas' promotion was reported at the start of round 3.
Aye, that's when it became safe to claim I had an ability. ~:)

Renata

04-30-2010, 13:33

Well, now the *Rule of Two* is going to come into play....ATPG, do you think you well be recruited?(be honest:grin2:)

I am hoping that my theory about this is wrong....or we might be in more trouble then I care to be in.....:sweatdrop:

You are so scummy, white_eyes.

Renata

04-30-2010, 13:40

Aye, that's when it became safe to claim I had an ability. ~:)

The WIFOM is killing me.

That aside, having thought about it I'm pretty sure that Palpatine was NOT a Sith. Niklas wasn't the top dog. But he *is* a force ghost. Would a plain old recruited padawan get that privilege? I'm guessing he wouldn't. That makes Niklas an original Sith and the master an original Sith, which means Yaseikhaan could not have been unless there were more than two at the beginning of the game. In other words, I'm thinking that what might be revealing about the Yaseikhaan lynch is not the votes themselves (at least not more than any other votes in the game), but rather the reactions to his role reveal.

Niklas

04-30-2010, 13:43

But he *is* a force ghost. Would a plain old recruited padawan get that privilege? I'm guessing he wouldn't.
No, you're right. I got that ability from Yoda.

Ibn-Khaldun

04-30-2010, 13:46

Ibn-Khaldun was brave when issuing his challenge, I'll give him that. Secura just had a death wish. Psychonaut was just silly, but I think you take the prize. :juggle2:

So, it was you! Well, I challenge you again .. in a galaxy far, far away..

Niklas

04-30-2010, 14:00

So, it was you! Well, I challenge you again .. in a galaxy far, far away..
Well, not literally me, I left it to my henchmen. But what's really funny is that we had already sent the order to kill you before you challenged us. :yes:

Diamondeye

04-30-2010, 14:09

I've stopped listening to Niklas. I suggest everyone follows that example because he's really enjoying himself from what I can tell.

A cookie says that Niklas will actively quote this statement and agree with it.

Ibn-Khaldun

04-30-2010, 14:11

Well, not literally me, I left it to my henchmen. But what's really funny is that we had already sent the order to kill you before you challenged us. :yes:

Btw, who might that be?

Niklas

04-30-2010, 14:13

Renata

04-30-2010, 14:14

White_eyes:D

04-30-2010, 14:38

You are so scummy, white_eyes.I hate to disappoint:wink:

Now I must tease ATPG more about him being possibly recruited...:grin2:(After Shadow Fort, I deserve it:furious3:)

It might go something like this....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRIvfo7P5xg&feature=related

TinCow

04-30-2010, 15:01

Ok, here's my review of the previous times Niklas was under pressure. The first time any serious attempt was made to lynch him began just prior to Day 5, with this post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2474701&viewfull=1#post2474701) (which was influenced by my knowledge of the QT thread). Prior to that post, Niklas was subject to some FOSing and a few scattered votes early on, but nothing that appeared to be significant enough to draw any scum-buddies to his defense.

As a result of that case, Diamondeye lodges a random FOS of me (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2474723&viewfull=1#post2474723), without explanation. The following Day 5 phase was focused mainly on Chaotix/ATPG and so no serious pressure was put on Niklas for a good while. However, after Chaotix revealed, a large number of votes shifted suddenly to Niklas, including Psychonaut and ATPG (which is points in their favor). In the middle of the bandwagon, autolycus lodges a vote on 'khaan with a scummy bet-hedging comment about Niklas (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2475253&viewfull=1#post2475253). Diamondeye, our previous scummy FOSer, also votes for Niklas without a bet-hedging statement (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2475342&viewfull=1#post2475342), but it is a bit late on the bandwagon so it could still have been a scum trying to hide in what looked like a solid lynch of his partner. ATPG chooses that moment to try and start a big discussion (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2475404&viewfull=1#post2475404) which will focus votes on a lot of different players (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2475426&viewfull=1#post2475426). His reasons are decent, but that's not hard to do in a mafia game and the fact remains it's a potential attempt to derail the Niklas vote by dispersing them elsewhere.

Shortly after that, my PM conversations with Niklas about the meta-gaming convince me to just drop the issue and try and forget it. So, I unvote (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2475457&viewfull=1#post2475457). However, the bandwagon is still pretty strong at that point and Niklas is still in danger. Subotan then jumps on ATPG's discussion as an excuse to lodge a random vote (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2475466&viewfull=1#post2475466) as does Diamondeye (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2475509&viewfull=1#post2475509). After that, the bandwagon on Niklas dissipates on its own, and it becomes difficult to determine anything based on the unvotes of Niklas.

The next period of pressure on Niklas did not occur until Day 9. In the meantime, there's an interesting exchange between Niklas and Diamondeye (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2476295&viewfull=1#post2476295). And a random return shot by Diamondeye against Niklas (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2477759&viewfull=1#post2477759). A few votes appear on Niklas again on Day 8, lead by Yaropolk (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2477858&viewfull=1#post2477858)(a mark in his favor), but not enough to generate any real pressure on him. However, during that period, Renata (who was consistently FOSing and discussing Niklas throughout the game) lodges a vote against Diamondeye (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2477774&viewfull=1#post2477774), who seems to be actively concerned (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2477792&viewfull=1#post2477792) in multiple posts (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2478047&viewfull=1#post2478047) even though it's only a single vote and he's perfectly safe.

The next day phase, Day 9, is the phase when the metagaming info about Niklas comes out. Interestingly, autolycus (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2478606&viewfull=1#post2478606), split (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2478671&viewfull=1#post2478671), and Diana (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2478716&viewfull=1#post2478716) lead off with votes on Niklas before the case is ever made, which is a point in their favor. The metagaming evidence against Niklas is first introduced by Beskar (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2479056&viewfull=1#post2479056), and quickly followed by Renata (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2479060&viewfull=1#post2479060) (who later contacted me privately about it as well). A lot of dancing around the issue by dead people is then done, until I make the situation clear (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2479095&viewfull=1#post2479095). Before the votes start pouring onto Niklas, I intentionally put up pevergreen as an option for the QT screw-up person (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2479123&viewfull=1#post2479123), even though I am personally very certain that it is Niklas and keep my vote on him. Renata uses that excuse to switch to pevergreen (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2479129&viewfull=1#post2479129), but her PMs to me made her seem actively upset about the situation, so her reaction is acceptable. Others who jump on the pevergreen option are White_eyes (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2479148&viewfull=1#post2479148) and johnhughthom (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2479162&viewfull=1#post2479162). Diamondeye's impression of the Niklas/pever situation cannot be determined, as he lodges a pre-bandwagon vote in which he also states he will be AFK for most of the round (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2478764&viewfull=1#post2478764).

On Day 10, the evidence against Niklas was so strong that the votes just poured on him and never came off. The only vote which raises an eyebrow is Diamondeye's (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2479997&viewfull=1#post2479997), which is slightly hesitant in its tone. After the lynch, Diamondeye (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2480355&viewfull=1#post2480355)once again gives his bit about the master/apprentice, which I can't see much basis for in the thread. Sounds like inside info, followed by an attempt to distance himself from Niklas (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2480593&viewfull=1#post2480593).

So, in summary, I see only one person whose name continues to pop up over and over with regard to Niklas:
FOS: Diamondeye

On a final note, it's worth reading this post by Niklas. Sounds like inside knowledge in hindsight:

Failed recruitment attempts, at least. It would be rather foolish to expect successful attempts to be broadcast, no? Though now I see Beskar has made a 180 on that conversion attempt - hmmm!

Best to assume successful recruitment will not be shown in the write-up.

Diamondeye

04-30-2010, 16:17

:laugh4:

I'm quite impressed by your conjuring tricks, TinCow, but it's all hot air. I can assess your accusations point by point if you want me to, but I'm just going to repeat what I told Niklas in one of posts you linked: "Stare yourself blind, I have nothing to hide."

That said, your newfound enthusiasm about actively contributing (the lack thereof what was had pinned you as suspicious much before the day 5 FoS you mentioned - and I had to put both hands to use with the amount of fingers I pointed out then) makes you a bit less suspicious to me... My main suspects at the moment are Psychonaut and White_Eyes:D, still. I think the theory that one of the sith (Niklas) is from CFC and the other an original .orger holds water. That was your thesis as well, right?

naut

04-30-2010, 16:28

Kagemusha

04-30-2010, 16:38

See how insidious an idea can get, once it creeps inside your head? :beam:

The more you focus on me, the less objectively you see the others. But fine, do as you please. If you find something TinCow, go for it. I'll keep my head free of Niklas' WIFOM, and you'll examine it. Maybe one of us will come up with a decent lead.

You and i both know its simple risk managing.It doesnt hurt the Sith lord to recruit you as cannon fodder, since essentially he/she is just killing you,which means one less townie.The Sith would be absurd not to recruit you and town would be the same by not lynching you.The cold hard fact is that you have arrived in the end of the road my friend.

About Niklas.I think he was the senior Sith, but that just means that the apprentice has become a master.

pevergreen

04-30-2010, 16:52

Is it just me or is TinCow trying harder than usual?

In thread at least.

atheotes

04-30-2010, 16:56

Pizza has to be the default lynch if we dont have any decent choices. The town can do with less of the WIFOM from pizza.

atheotes

04-30-2010, 16:57

Is it just me or is TinCow trying harder than usual?

In thread at least.

:laugh4:
till a couple of phases ago, i though he was being less ruthless than he usually is.

Niklas

04-30-2010, 17:14

So, in summary, I see only one person whose name continues to pop up over and over with regard to Niklas:
FOS: Diamondeye
Oh dang, and here I was trying to protect you. I'm so sorry I've failed you, Diamondeye. ~:(

TinCow

04-30-2010, 17:37

That said, your newfound enthusiasm about actively contributing (the lack thereof what was had pinned you as suspicious much before the day 5 FoS you mentioned - and I had to put both hands to use with the amount of fingers I pointed out then) makes you a bit less suspicious to me...

I just read every post that you've made, and the very first time you made any comment about me at all (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2474723&viewfull=1#post2474723) was the FOS after I presented a case against Niklas on D5. After that point, you have FOSed me or expressed concerned about me (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2475342&viewfull=1#post2475342) in (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2475509#post2475509) five (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2475898#post2475898) separate (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2477792#post2477792) posts (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2478764#post2478764). You're lying through your teeth here. You didn't accuse me of anything ever when I was sitting back and observing, you only started attacking me after I launched my first salvo at Niklas. So, why are you claiming that it was a lack of activity by me that made you suspicious?

Askthepizzaguy

04-30-2010, 18:00

You and i both know its simple risk managing.

Very poor risk management.

It doesnt hurt the Sith lord to recruit you as cannon fodder,

Yes it does, Kage. Don't make me drag your limp corpse in front of Yoda and shame you with my logic. :smartass:

since essentially he/she is just killing you,which means one less townie.

Not even close.

The Sith would be absurd not to recruit you and town would be the same by not lynching you.

Oh, so tempting.... but I'll be quiet.

The cold hard fact is that you have arrived in the end of the road my friend.

Kagemusha you disappoint me, Yoda holds you in such high esteem. Surely you can do better. :laugh4:

Sasaki Kojiro

04-30-2010, 18:02

Diamondeye.

I agree with Niklas. Diamondeye should be lynched. He had a scummy post a couple pages ago iirc.

Kagemusha

04-30-2010, 18:08

Very poor risk management.

Yes it does, Kage. Don't make me drag your limp corpse in front of Yoda and shame you with my logic. :smartass:

Not even close.

Oh, so tempting.... but I'll be quiet.

Kagemusha you disappoint me, Yoda holds you in such high esteem. Surely you can do better. :laugh4:

You dont say anything that compromises my logic."Saying you are wrong" just doesnt really cut it does it? Please shame me with your logic.:yes:

Askthepizzaguy

04-30-2010, 18:27

You dont say anything that compromises my logic."Saying you are wrong" just doesnt really cut it does it? Please shame me with your logic.:yes:

Privately, if I may. atheotes, you too.

I'll see you there.

Renata

04-30-2010, 19:03

I never get invited to the good parties.

Diamondeye

04-30-2010, 19:29

I just read every post that you've made, and the very first time you made any comment about me at all (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2474723&viewfull=1#post2474723) was the FOS after I presented a case against Niklas on D5. After that point, you have FOSed me or expressed concerned about me (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2475342#post2475342) in (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2475509#post2475509) five (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2475898#post2475898) separate (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2477792#post2477792) posts (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2478764#post2478764). You're lying through your teeth here. You didn't accuse me of anything ever when I was sitting back and observing, you only started attacking me after I launched my first salvo at Niklas. So, why are you claiming that it was a lack of activity by me that made you suspicious?

You struck me as scummy, for some reason. As I've said before, I don't know exactly what triggered that, actually.
And I think I wanted to defend Niklas at the time before I knew him better than most of the rest of players here. I've changed my mind, obviously, since he was discovered sith and brought up for the lynch.

If I'm wrong about the time I started being suspicious of you (or saying so in thread), I apologize. It was not deliberate misinformation, I just wanted to make clear that as far back as I can recall, your replies have had a scummy resonance to me. It might just be your personal style, though...

Oh dang, and here I was trying to protect you. I'm so sorry I've failed you, Diamondeye. ~:(

:laugh4:

I won't drink from that cup, Niklas. Be gone :tongue:.

Sasaki Kojiro

04-30-2010, 19:37

I actually think Niklas is telling the truth about Diamondeye being his partner. Their interaction is weird and forced. Let's lynch DE.

TinCow

04-30-2010, 19:46

You struck me as scummy, for some reason. As I've said before, I don't know exactly what triggered that, actually.

...

If I'm wrong about the time I started being suspicious of you (or saying so in thread), I apologize. It was not deliberate misinformation, I just wanted to make clear that as far back as I can recall, your replies have had a scummy resonance to me. It might just be your personal style, though....

It's interesting that you're now claiming it was just a wishy-washy general scumminess that made you go after me. You were pretty specific about the reasons for your suspicions and the exact timing of them with your last post:

That said, your newfound enthusiasm about actively contributing (the lack thereof what was had pinned you as suspicious much before the day 5 FoS you mentioned - and I had to put both hands to use with the amount of fingers I pointed out then) makes you a bit less suspicious to me...

You said in that post that "the lack thereof" of my contributions was what made you suspect me. That's a very specific reason. Now you claim, only one post later, that you don't know why you went after me? You also said two posts ago that you "pinned [me] as suspicious much before the day 5 FoS" and that this suspicion was so strong that you FoSed me so much that you had to use "both hands." That's not at all compatible with the current reply that you don't know what triggered your suspicions and that you might have made a simple mistake with the timing. You are contradicting yourself constantly in your defense of my FOS, that does not bode well for your innocence.

ULC

04-30-2010, 19:58

Reading from several days back to catch up - will hope to contribute something before the days end.

Askthepizzaguy

04-30-2010, 21:22

You struck me as scummy, for some reason.

TinCow?

mmmkay. I'll go on record as saying I don't think so. He would have had to have been the other main Sith Lord, and his behavior doesn't match that at all.

In my mind, it was either Tincow or Niklas, not both.

ULC

04-30-2010, 21:34

Okay, I want to broach this subject with some trepidation, because although I am sure of it, to confirm it would be difficult.

I think the abilities work on an RPS method, as it seems odd that what beats what in the write ups is consistent, and that those claiming the ability to protect themselves during the night, or have had protective abilities and died, have died regardless. That's a bit unfair to those playing if the abilities have no merit on their own, as it would effect how they play, but would make sense if we've "been doing it wrong".

Also, Sigurd edit this out or not, but we should have long found the original Sith, based upon his words. To me, this sounds like definite grounds for recruitment, and if the Rule of Two is really being held to, then this means that we are fighting 2 Sith and one potential at any moment, and that there is a specific way to stop recruitment period, and I don't think it is through lynching either/or, but by limiting their recruiting capability - I credit WE for allowing me this line of logic.

And to follow it up, I suggest lynching WE. As I've seen him before in most recruitment based/themed games, he has a tendency to leak out information, period, in some grand strategy he cooks up. If this is true, then WE is a Sith or potential Sith.

Subotan

04-30-2010, 21:51

RPS? What's that?

Diamondeye

04-30-2010, 21:52

I actually think Niklas is telling the truth about Diamondeye being his partner. Their interaction is weird and forced. Let's lynch DE.

You're smarter than that, Sasaki... Niklas has nothing to lose personally, ofc he's going to go out of his way to disrupt the town.

It's interesting that you're now claiming it was just a wishy-washy general scumminess that made you go after me. You were pretty specific about the reasons for your suspicions and the exact timing of them with your last post:

You said in that post that "the lack thereof" of my contributions was what made you suspect me. That's a very specific reason. Now you claim, only one post later, that you don't know why you went after me? You also said two posts ago that you "pinned [me] as suspicious much before the day 5 FoS" and that this suspicion was so strong that you FoSed me so much that you had to use "both hands." That's not at all compatible with the current reply that you don't know what triggered your suspicions and that you might have made a simple mistake with the timing. You are contradicting yourself constantly in your defense of my FOS, that does not bode well for your innocence.

I was about to comment on how nitpicky you are and how you're (unsuccesfully) trying to use that as evidence, but then I realized I act in much the same way.

I think that's actually what strikes me as slightly off about your style.

Also, I didn't say I FoSed you so hard I had to use both hands (that'd be HoSing), I said I FoSed so many people that with one finger each, I still had to take both hands into use...

TinCow?

mmmkay. I'll go on record as saying I don't think so. He would have had to have been the other main Sith Lord, and his behavior doesn't match that at all.

In my mind, it was either Tincow or Niklas, not both.

To be honest I haven't reread that, you might be right. As I said, Tincow's not the top suspect on my list atm. Psychonaut and WE are.

Sasaki Kojiro

04-30-2010, 21:54

You're smarter than that, Sasaki... Niklas has nothing to lose personally, ofc he's going to go out of his way to disrupt the town.

Him having named you as his partner doesn't make you innocent.

White_eyes:D

04-30-2010, 22:39

I was going to wait but might as well do this now.....:sweatdrop:

Ok, take a look at this..
“Very well, let’s proceed with the interrogations people… oh and before I go, we lost a Padawan and a Knight last night.I have decided to award the rank of Padawan to Den Siva. Congratulations!!
The rank of Knight will be awarded Kyp Durron. Congratulations to you too!!” Den Siva/Darth Nihl=Niklas and Kyp Durron=pevergreen funny how they both get promoted at the same time.....like a "Master and an apprentice":inquisitive:

When Qui-Gon Jinn returned, the crew members were waiting. They had not decided on a candidate to lynch. There was a tie between Den Siva and Kyp Durron. Qui-Gon looked inquisitively on the assembled crew members. “You mean to tell me that you haven’t been able to decide? I can’t go ahead and execute both and be wrong twice. You need to vote a clear candidate. I am cancelling this round of voting.There also was a tie that round....even though Niklas could have put the final vote on pevergreen lynching an innocent....he choose to tie it up and try and save pevergreen:inquisitive:

Tally:
Niklas: 5 (atheotes, autolycus, Diana, Split, TinCow)
pevergreen: 5 (Centurion, johnhugh, Renata, Subotan, WE:D)

Subotan: 3 (ATPG, Psycho, Yaropolk)
White_Eyes:D: 2 (Chaotix, Diamondeye)
Psycho: 1 (Choxorn)
Centurion1: 1 (pevergreen)
Askthepizzaguy: 1 (GH)

Not voting: 2 (AVSM, Niklas)
and they didn't put any votes on each other....and Niklas's response to it, was a little to convenient:no:
For the record, I had no idea what the tally was at the time of my unvote. I also had no idea what the result of a tied lynch vote would mean. Outright lie....and he even had a lynch to waste....so why did he save pevergreen?:inquisitive:

Sasaki Kojiro

04-30-2010, 22:41

Nice find. Glad somebody looked that round up :)

Pevergreen is a good lynch.

Renata

04-30-2010, 22:48

You think? I think it would be a horrible lynch, and I'm suspicious of white_eyes for suggesting it. Assume Niklas did do the count before he claimed to have. He learns that he is up by one vote over his teammate. He has a get-out-of-lynch-free card in his pocket. Now he unvotes himself, putting himself into a tie with his teammate, when pever (even if he did have lynch immunity as well) has no record of being *supposed* to have it; when Niklas stands to lose his lynch immunity that night anyway; and when Niklas can have no idea what the tied vote might do? (Sigurd hasn't mentioned it anywhere that I know of.) That makes no sense to me.

pever might get recruited, same as anyone, but I don't see him as the Sith Lord.

Sasaki Kojiro

04-30-2010, 22:50

Lynch immunity hmm? I missed that part. Let's lynch DE then.

White_eyes:D

04-30-2010, 23:01

Niklas even admitted that pevergreen might have set-up that QT....
WT*, that wasn't me, I swear it. And I truly wish you hadn't told me, I utterly hate this sort of thing. Now there are two of us spoilered, I cannot unhear what you told me any more than you can unsee what you saw. But I am not the droid you seek, I didn't post that.

I assume you're referring to "Messages 29-27 deleted by topic administrator between 04-19-2010 03:13 PM and 04-19-2010 03:07 PM".

I do not have any account on QT, and as such I don't have the power to delete even my own posts, I tried. I can edit them, or delete their content, but not delete the posts themselves. "Topic administrator" suggests YLC or pevergreen deleted, whoever started that QT. I can only speculate, but I simply won't, you know as well as I do what the implications are. Just like you I loathe that kind of meta-gaming, and I'm enjoying this game far too much at this point, or at least was. It will affect me, no doubt, I can't unhear it, but I'm hoping I can go back to enjoying the game regardless (and you too).

Now I'll take a break, vent some steam, and then go back to trying to derail a stupid bandwagon. At least now I understand why you were so insisting even after I thought I had given you the explanation you wanted. I get the feeling he was just trying to get TinCow off his back and he let something slip:book:

@Renata: He could have asked Sigurd? heck, I even asked him how many rounds, he would let me not vote as I was away for a few days....:shrug:
I also think Niklas would have kept a very CLOSE eye on the tally:inquisitive:

TinCow

04-30-2010, 23:11

Niklas even admitted that pevergreen might have set-up that QT.... I get the feeling he was just trying to get TinCow off his back and he let something slip:book:

YLC was the admin of that QT and he deleted the posts, it was definitely not pevergreen. Like I said earlier, the situation as I saw it was that either Niklas or pevergreen were Sith, not both. Since Niklas is now confirmed Sith, that should clear pevergreen (at least as far as that line of evidence goes).

Sigurd

04-30-2010, 23:15

Round 10

Day

Obi Wan Kenobi was utterly tired after a long day fixing the ship’s power grid. He really needed some rest after today’s ordeal. Along the way, he met a recognizable person who asked if it was alright that he tagged along. Obi Wan didn’t mind as this was a person he trusted. They walked along chatting about the ship and how to best get it up and running. When they got to Obi Wan’s quarters, the other person asked if he could talk with Obi Wan some more, about more important matters. Obi wan agreed and the both entered the cabin. Obi Wan turned to the other: “Wait, didn’t we do this last night as well? I distinctly remember something weird happening to me then.” The other person gestured and Obi Wan slumped lifeless to the floor. The other person looked concerned and walked over to the now comatosed Obi Wan. “I am sorry friend, but I have to do this.” He crouched down and closed his eyes. The world would have spun around Obi Wan had he been conscious. Obi Wan woke up right before the meeting in the auditorium and couldn’t remember at all why he had fallen asleep on the floor of his cabin fully clothed.

Luke Skywalker walked alone in the hallways of the living quarters heading to his particular cabin when he felt the presence of danger. Green lightsabre sprang to life as he scanned his proximity. He could see no one, but the feeling wouldn’t go away.
He turned back the way he came a bit, but saw nothing. When he turned again towards his own cabin, there was a personage blocking the way. The person was cloaked in a long blackish cloak with a deep hood hiding face and features. From the dark of the hood, Luke could see glowing amber eyes. They betrayed utterly hatred for him. Luke was ready, his Jedi Knight training took over and he took his defensive stance. The cloaked person just stood there watching, contemplating. Luke got a little uncomfortable when it seemed the person was not going to attack. This was getting a little silly so Luke broke the silence: “What do you want?” The cloaked person stared at Luke with those hateful amber eyes. A little moment passed before the cloaked person responded: “You won’t do.” The cloaked person lifted both arms towards Luke and cascading blue energy was released from the hands. Luke was ready though and formed a absorbing field of force which turned the electric energy to nothing right before him.
When the cloaked person saw this, he stopped. And that was the break Luke needed. He jumped at the cloaked person, lightsabre swinging in to strike. The cloaked person moved away, dodging Luke’s attack. When Luke landed, he felt excruciating pain in his head and fell to the floor. It was as if the very life force was dragged away from his physical self. Darkness came fast.

The night ended and the assembly of Jedi was yet again meeting in the auditorium.
Only one person was killed during the night which meant there was one more Sith out there, or rather in here. Qui Gon admonished them to continue the search for the Sith and present a candidate when he returned.
“We lost a Jedi Knight this night. We need another. Barrison Draay has been found worthy of the title of Jedi Knight. Congratulations!!!”

23 hours to the end of voting (23:00 GMT+1 Saturday 1st of May)

Lynched:

a completely innocent name
TheFlax
Belisarius II
Yaseikhaan
Thermal Mercury
Greyblades
Niklas

Killed:

Beefy187
Husar
Captain Blackadder
Khazaar
Csargo
Ibn-Khaldun
Methos
Andres
Beskar
Winston Hughes
Chaotix
Sasaki Kojiro
Joooray
Kagemusha
Secura
atheotes
GeneralHankerchief
Diana Abnoba

Force Ghost:

Chaotix
atheotes
Niklas

Alive:

YLC
Askthepizzaguy
autolycus
Centurion1
Choxorn
Diamondeye
johnhughthom
pevergreen
Psychonaut
Renata
splitpersonality
Subotan
TinCow
White_eyes:D
Yaropolk

Niklas

04-30-2010, 23:32

vote: pevergreen

Sasaki Kojiro

04-30-2010, 23:37

Awesome...so the sith tries to recruit, and if he hits an unrecruitable then he kills them. But for now we have just one death. And we know no one was recruited.

Anyway, DiamondEye is guilty.

Diamondeye

04-30-2010, 23:38

I guess that clears Psychonaut for good.

That leaves White_Eyes:D as my sole main suspect, so I'll Vote:White_Eyes:D

I am going to be away for almost all of this round, so I am going to put it all out here in front that we don't make a mislynch or waste the day on fruitless discussion:

I am Grandmaster Qui-Gon Jinn. Chaotix, aka Yoda, will be able to confirm this claim, having known about my identity for several rounds and having recieved detailed personal information about my character. Should a second confirmation be needed, I have made a private reveal to someone else who can reveal themselves in the thread if they find that this is needed.

I have the Investigation/draining and roleblocking abilities of the former grandmaster and will therefore be able to completely pacify a player at night while also gathering detailed information about him/her. This what was I did to Psychonaut tonight to prove with 100% certainty that he was innocent - sorry for doubting you, Psycho.

This means that the town must pick out a lynch candidate (I am thinking White_Eyes:D, obviously) as well as a main suspect to be scanned and blocked, that we avoid the sith recruiting and thereby restoring their numbers (I get the impression from the writeup that the sith targetted a person who could not be converted, so hopefully there hasn't been a succesful recruitment on top of that).

I myself am unsusceptible to the Dark Side, so if my death follows as a direct consequence of this reveal, the town will have won another day in which to apprehend the sith.

As to main suspects, I am cautious of Sasaki Kojiro and TinCow, but I have no proof against either. Perhaps my emotions are getting in my way, and I need to rest and meditate. I am going to bed soon (it's past midnight and I have to get up early), but if I missed anything of critical importance, please notify me of this in the thread.

Sasaki Kojiro

04-30-2010, 23:42

Don't lynch me, that would be a very bad idea.

We keep on with outing the pro town roles though.

ULC

04-30-2010, 23:44

Vote: White Eyes

I'll follow the leader for now, I just want to see how the day unfolds first.

Diamondeye

04-30-2010, 23:50

I feel like I should elaborate that I have not yet recieved my result PM of the scan on Psycho, I just took it for granted by the writeup that he is indeed innocent.

On the off chance that he isn't, you have my apologies and we win the game once I get the PM.

TinCow

04-30-2010, 23:53

Renata

04-30-2010, 23:59

For Diamondeye to be Sith he'd have to be capable of a whole lot of actions at the same time. Still, I don't know if it can be completely ruled out. My own questions for you, DE:

I told you it would be better to roleblock Psychonaut, not investigate him. You were actually the first to suggest that, yourself. Why wasn't it done? Who was roleblocked? Also, when you discussed your investigation of Niklas from the previous night, there was no mention of Niklas being completely rendered useless for the evening; quite the opposite -- and in fact, you should not have needed any investigation on Psychonaut at all if that were the case, because both of them would have been neutralized and hence no chance either of them were doing the killings. What's going on, Diamondeye?

I'm not going to be around nearly as much as I'd like to be the next couple of days, so it's just as well you brought this out in public, even if it is completely unnecessary and incomprehensible in itself. These things need answers. Edit: Also, a full answer on your actions from the beginning of the game that you said you hadn't stored -- you mentioned you'd be asking Sigurd to refresh your memory.

In the meantime, no vote.

Diamondeye

05-01-2010, 00:06

Vote: Diamondeye

I believe his reveal, but it's been proven the Sith have cover roles. Qui-gon was not the Expedition Leader at the start of the game, so he does not have the same level of role-innocence that Yoda does. It is Diamondeye's in-thread behavior that makes him suspicious. Unless I see proof from others that there are night actions that PROVE he was not killing, I believe he is the strongest candidate. If Chaotix and Psychonaut trust him so much, surely they will vouch for him.

Why would Psycho trust me considering I never revealed to him and only just was confirmed in my belief that he was innocent?

Chaotix and Renata are both aware of my role and have been for some time, though.

I told you it would be better to roleblock Psychonaut, not investigate him. You were actually the first to suggest that, yourself. Why wasn't it done? Also, when you discussed your investigation of Niklas from the previous night, there was no mention of Niklas being completely rendered useless for the evening; quite the opposite -- and in fact, you should not have needed any investigation on Psychonaut at all if that were the case, because both of them would have been neutralized and hence no chance either of them were doing the killings. What's going on, Diamondeye?

I'm not going to be around nearly as much as I'd like to be the next couple of days, so it's just as well you brought this out in public, even if it is completely unnecessary and incomprehensible in itself. These things need answers.

In the meantime, no vote.

As you saw earlier in the thread when another Jedi Master revealed it, it is possible for Jedi Masters (and Grand Master) to target the same person with two abilities. I was almost sure Psycho was the remaining sith (due to his insistance on the holocron thing, among others), so I decided to block him to avoid a recruitment and scan him to make sure we didn't make a fatal mistake in lynching a pro-town.

Also, you're not online on MSN, Renata, why's that? I'd have liked to talk this reveal through with someone I could trust (read: you) to make sure it was necessary, and done properly. This is my first time playing a pro-town role on this forum, after all...

Renata

05-01-2010, 00:07

I actually thought that might have been false suspicion from you, TinCow, to keep DE from being attacked. Guess not.

ULC

05-01-2010, 00:12

Renata

05-01-2010, 00:13

Why would Psycho trust me considering I never revealed to him and only just was confirmed in my belief that he was innocent?

Chaotix and Renata are both aware of my role and have been for some time, though.

As you saw earlier in the thread when another Jedi Master revealed it, it is possible for Jedi Masters (and Grand Master) to target the same person with two abilities. I was almost sure Psycho was the remaining sith (due to his insistance on the holocron thing, among others), so I decided to block him to avoid a recruitment and scan him to make sure we didn't make a fatal mistake in lynching a pro-town.

Unfortunately the write-up doesn't make that clear as far as I can tell. However on reflection, you and Psychonaut can't *both* be Sith. So regardless of your own status, I do think this statement probably clears Psychonaut. About you I need to think just a tiny bit more, about the night before last, mostly.

Also, you're not online on MSN, Renata, why's that? I'd have liked to talk this reveal through with someone I could trust (read: you) to make sure it was necessary, and done properly. This is my first time playing a pro-town role on this forum, after all...

I really don't think it was necessary and would have been strongly against it. Assuming you're town, I think it was a big mistake. All the suspicion on you, we could have milked that for some time to keep you alive, I think. You've just neutralized yourself.

Why the rush? Why couldn't you have waited for your PM? I really don't get it. Sorry.

And I'm sorry I wasn't on MSN. I generally don't log in there when I'm only planning to be online for a few minutes.

Diamondeye

05-01-2010, 00:30

I'm starting to read through the RotS summary thread, and something is starting to make me wonder - one of the Sith NEVER uses a lightsaber. Considering this, I'm starting to think our non-lightsaber wielding Sith was infact Niklas, since he never held the rank to own a lightsaber.

How is this important? Well, it means the Sith don't have the same restrictions we do on ability gain, and that based on the methods in which Niklas killed, I'd also say he had access to Force Drain - his kills differ between 3 types, Force Choke, Force Lightning, and Force Drain.

Also, another thought, what if my RPS theory is wrong, and that instead all abilities work 100% of the time, so long as you are dealing with people of equal rank? This would mean that the Lightsaber killer was of higher rank then Knight, meaning our Lightsaber killer is lurking under a Jedi Master cover, to compliment his Jedi Master power threshold.

Crimson lightsaber in his lynch writeup makes this invalid?

Unfortunately the write-up doesn't make that clear as far as I can tell. However on reflection, you and Psychonaut can't *both* be Sith. So regardless of your own status, I do think this statement probably clears Psychonaut. About you I need to think just a tiny bit more, about the night before last, mostly.

I really don't think it was necessary and would have been strongly against it. Assuming you're town, I think it was a big mistake. All the suspicion on you, we could have milked that for some time to keep you alive, I think. You've just neutralized yourself.

Why the rush? Why couldn't you have waited for your PM? I really don't get it. Sorry.

And I'm sorry I wasn't on MSN. I generally don't log in there when I'm only planning to be online for a few minutes.

The rush is because several of the most active people on the forum had a finger pointed at me, and I am going to be away all day tomorrow. An early reveal and subsequent beneficial day for the town is better than the lynch of the most powerful pro-town because of real life issues.

I've already stayed up too late, but I still haven't recieved the result PM ~:( I'm going to bed for good now (you can thank TVTropes for the fact that I haven't already retired. Not sure if that's healthy).

ULC

05-01-2010, 00:36

Crimson lightsaber in his lynch writeup makes this invalid?

It only makes invalid the idea that Niklas was the true Dark Lord - it does not mean it invalidates my whole theory, and infact reinforces the idea that to the Sith rank is meaningless and doesn't effect them or the abilities they can have.

If you have an alterante theory, I'd like to hear it.

Choxorn

05-01-2010, 00:44

Assuming Diamondeye and Psycho are both innocent, which seems likely at this point, this makes White Eyes the top suspect.

Vote: White_Eyes :D

TinCow

05-01-2010, 00:46

Renata

05-01-2010, 01:07

Niklas in his lynch write-up was in fact described as using a crimson lightsaber; however, it said something like that he was not very practiced with it.

Den Siva hissed and sprang forward, igniting his lightsabre which he shouldn’t have had as a Padawan. The crowd gasped when they saw the colour of it. Crimson plasma swooshed trough the air trying to find Qui Gon’s flesh. But the green lightsabre of Qui Gon was there and blocked all Den Siva’s attempts at striking him down. Qui-Gon finally flicked the sabre out of Den Siva’s hands and it was obvious that he hadn’t practised much with it. Seeing his lightsaber rolling on the floor, Den Siva stretched his hands forth and blue energy came cackling from them.

So, I don't know.

When did the Jedi Masters gain the ability to use two abilities per night? It's possible it's important.

Renata

05-01-2010, 01:57

OK, Diamondeye was promoted to Grand Master on night five, upon Chaotix' death.

On Night Six:
-- Gun Han Saresh (Sasaki) killed by cloaked person using force choke. Mention of speed.
-- Corran Horn (Joooray) killed by cloaked person, amber eyes, using lightsaber (lightsaber is used very well)
-- Keyan Farlander (GeneralHankerchief) investigated by force drain (Diamondeye)

On Night Seven:
-- Atris (Kagemusha) killed by lightsaber (ditto), cloaked person. Mention of speed.
-- Micah Giett (Secura) killed by choke, amber eyes, cloak
-- Belth Allusis (I don't know who this is) is roleblocked (Diamondeye)
-- Atris (Kagemusha) is to be investigated, but is already dead (Diamondeye)

On Night Eight:
-- Kenth Hamner (atheotes) killed by figure in dark cloak, amber eyes, using force avalanche (which beat force push)
-- Keyan Farlander (GeneralHankerchief) killed by figure in dark cloak, amber eyes, using force lightning. This is the first time there is no lightsaber used for either kill. There's no mention of speed in either kill, either.
-- Niklas is investigated by force drain (Diamondeye)
-- Psychonaut is roleblocked (Diamondeye)

On Night Nine:
-- Psychonaut is roleblocked and investigated by force drain (Diamondeye, two actions)
-- Luke Skywalker (Diana Abnoba) faces recruitment, but is unrecruitable and is killed. Dark cloak, amber eyes

The idea with roleblocking Psychonaut was that it looked possible that both kills on Night eight had been performed by Niklas, who knew he would most likely have his lynch immunity drained. Psychonaut seemed likelier to face the roleblock on that night (which he did). So Diamondeye's suggestion, which I later agreed with and expanded on, was to roleblock Psychonaut (and investigate someone else), which should stop him recruiting or killing whether he was investigation-immune or not. On closer inspection of the write-up, it looks like Diamondeye in fact did both investigate and roleblock Psychonaut, so his claimed two actions are accounted for. As they are in fact every night since night seven. (BTW with Psychonaut now in the clear it looks likelier that if there was any trickery going on with the kills on that night, it was Niklas' partner doing both kills, not him.)

The question is how many actions a Sith Lord (who is also a Grand Master) might get. He'd have to have at least three in order to account for last night; a town Grand Master would have only two.

Here's what I have *against* DE:

There are some suggestive coincidences (here I go with the coincidences again) involving DE's investigations. DE investigates GeneralHankerchief, reports innocence, a couple of nights later GH (who was at least as much lynchbait as some other people still alive) is dead. DE investigates Kagemusha; he's dead the same night. It looks rather a lot like the results you'd expect if you had someone on your mafia team doing investigations and wanted to keep the number of confirmed innocents down to something manageable. Right now we have one and a half (Psychonaut, and Pizzaguy unless the Sith Lord is immune to Beskar's investigation type) -- if Kagemusha and GH were still alive we'd have two more.

DE revealed to me rather easily, and it was prompted by a partial reveal to Niklas prior. I had been suspicious of DE; Niklas said he was suspicious of DE; Niklas got out of DE that he had a protective ability. I agreed with Niklas we needed to tag-team DE to get the straight story. I did so the next day by myself, with Niklas not around, and DE basically just popped out with the whole thing. The day after that, Niklas did not ask me if I had spoken with DE (this was still prior to the QT issue coming up).

DE hasn't accounted for who he was protecting prior to his promotion to Grand Master. He said he didn't have the sent PMs (which is plausible; it's just a profile setting, IIRC) and didn't remember (which is a bit less plausible). One thing which I'm amazed I didn't think to ask at the time -- why didn't he try to protect Chaotix? (Convo not cleaned up, no time.)

I don't even want to try to judge this given how wrong I've gotten things so far. Up to the rest of you.

4/26/2010 3:18:41 PM Renata Marcus niklas says you soft claimed to him yesterday
4/26/2010 3:18:44 PM Marcus Renata I did.
4/26/2010 3:18:52 PM Renata Marcus would you like to expand on it?
4/26/2010 3:18:54 PM Marcus Renata And I guessed he spilled it.
4/26/2010 3:19:16 PM Marcus Renata I don't know what to say... I recieved a protective power on the very first night... pre-game, I believe.
4/26/2010 3:19:48 PM Marcus Renata By one of the Jedi holocrons (the other person who recieved a power that night was Beskar, by his own words).
4/26/2010 3:20:06 PM Renata Marcus brb
4/26/2010 3:20:13 PM Marcus Renata I've managed to send in orders every night except the one with Ibn...
4/26/2010 3:20:30 PM Marcus Renata Which was the only one where I had a decent chance of guessing the mafia's target...
4/26/2010 3:21:59 PM Renata Marcus i thought the night one holocron visitors were accounted for
4/26/2010 3:22:10 PM Marcus Renata hmm?
4/26/2010 3:22:11 PM Renata Marcus or night zero, rather
4/26/2010 3:22:16 PM Marcus Renata Beskar and who, then?
4/26/2010 3:22:16 PM Renata Marcus beskar being one
4/26/2010 3:22:22 PM Renata Marcus i had thought it was csargo
4/26/2010 3:22:37 PM Marcus Renata Is he alive? I'm not viewing the thraed.
4/26/2010 3:22:45 PM Renata Marcus no, he was killed
4/26/2010 3:23:01 PM Renata Marcus who did you protect every night?
4/26/2010 3:23:09 PM Marcus Renata I can't remember on-hand.
4/26/2010 3:23:15 PM Marcus Renata I protected Beskar the first night.
4/26/2010 3:23:21 PM Marcus Renata After his claim...
4/26/2010 3:23:28 PM Renata Marcus did he know?
4/26/2010 3:23:32 PM Marcus Renata No.
4/26/2010 3:23:51 PM Marcus Renata Prior to my reveal to Niklas, only Chaotix knew of my role.
4/26/2010 3:23:55 PM Renata Marcus and you sent in orders every night *but* the plain as day one
4/26/2010 3:24:01 PM Renata Marcus kinda convenient
4/26/2010 3:24:11 PM Renata Marcus who are you, then?
4/26/2010 3:24:38 PM Marcus Renata I'd love to say that but I'd like to know something about you first.
4/26/2010 3:24:53 PM Marcus Renata My name's on Obi Wan's list.
4/26/2010 3:25:02 PM Renata Marcus lol. so's almost everybody
4/26/2010 3:25:16 PM Marcus Renata Yeah but when I asked Niklas, that was all he was willing to say aswell.
4/26/2010 3:25:33 PM Marcus Renata I guess it's reasonable to keep a kind of anonymity towards people you don't trust 100 %.
4/26/2010 3:25:40 PM Marcus Renata brb turning my LP.
4/26/2010 3:25:44 PM Renata Marcus ok
4/26/2010 3:26:07 PM Marcus Renata back.
4/26/2010 3:26:35 PM Marcus Renata So, anyway, are you going to spill me some beans, too, or am I the sitting duck of the Renata-Niklas mafia Inquisition?
4/26/2010 3:26:54 PM Renata Marcus you're the sitting duck, pretty much
4/26/2010 3:27:26 PM Marcus Renata That's great. I hope I've spilled enough to satisfy you, then.
4/26/2010 3:27:54 PM Renata Marcus well, i would like the role name. i can't think of any reason not to give it to me, as if i were mafia, you'd have already given me enough to kill you about five times over
4/26/2010 3:28:24 PM Marcus Renata Nancy... I've got this gut feeling that I am going to regret telling you.
4/26/2010 3:28:30 PM Marcus Renata So:
4/26/2010 3:28:34 PM Marcus Renata If I tell you...
4/26/2010 3:28:50 PM Marcus Renata 1: You WON'T tell anyone, cross swear on mother's grave etc.
4/26/2010 3:28:57 PM Marcus Renata 2: You spill your full role info.
4/26/2010 3:29:24 PM Marcus Renata And that's generous because I don't like keeping secrets from you..!
4/26/2010 3:29:50 PM Renata Marcus sorry, my son is having potty issues atm
4/26/2010 3:29:58 PM Renata Marcus 1 is fine
4/26/2010 3:30:01 PM Renata Marcus 2 i'll think
4/26/2010 3:30:02 PM Renata Marcus brb
4/26/2010 3:30:05 PM Marcus Renata cool.
4/26/2010 3:32:09 PM Renata Marcus back
4/26/2010 3:32:49 PM Renata Marcus ok
4/26/2010 3:32:50 PM Renata Marcus deal
4/26/2010 3:33:00 PM Marcus Renata Grand Master Qui Gon Jinn.
4/26/2010 3:33:07 PM Renata Marcus no kidding
4/26/2010 3:33:14 PM Marcus Renata No kidding.
4/26/2010 3:33:18 PM Renata Marcus hahaha
4/26/2010 3:33:25 PM Marcus Renata Understand my caution?
4/26/2010 3:33:31 PM Renata Marcus should i keep up lynch pressure on you, just a teensy bit?
4/26/2010 3:33:42 PM Renata Marcus migth keep you alive longer
4/26/2010 3:33:45 PM Renata Marcus but anyway, yeah
4/26/2010 3:33:51 PM Renata Marcus i am tahiri veila, padawan
4/26/2010 3:34:01 PM Renata Marcus i was called to the holocron on i think night five
4/26/2010 3:34:10 PM Renata Marcus (the night there was only one person called, referred to as "she")
4/26/2010 3:34:16 PM Marcus Renata All right.
4/26/2010 3:34:21 PM Marcus Renata What power did you recieve?
4/26/2010 3:34:26 PM Renata Marcus a defense one
4/26/2010 3:34:33 PM Marcus Renata Brilliant. Thank you :)

Askthepizzaguy

05-01-2010, 02:20

ok so i keep catching up and then losing ground and then i say okay ill see how this develops before i vote. and thne i miss the vote and get behind again.

My attention is now on this fantastic game i should be paying better attention to.

vote: split

god said to :D

A terrible vote.

Vote: Centurion1 finally post again, but only after you're pointed out as not having enough posts, and should have been WOG'd by now. And on top of that, you pick one of the only players, that just replaced an inactive player that was WOG'd, and mafia have been active every phase. Very scummy!!

I also like the pressure on white_eyes, and Niklas, something is just off there.

As you wish, my love. :heart:

Vote: Centurion1

TinCow

05-01-2010, 02:25

Thank you for the information, Renata. There is a lot of damning evidence in there about Diamondeye. Before I dig into it though, I'd like some confirmation from Psychonaut and/or Chaotix that ALL of these actions were indeed performed by Diamondeye:

On Night Seven:
-- Belth Allusis (I don't know who this is) is roleblocked (Diamondeye)
-- Atris (Kagemusha) is to be investigated, but is already dead (Diamondeye)

On Night Eight:
-- Niklas is investigated by force drain (Diamondeye)
-- Psychonaut is roleblocked (Diamondeye)

I have a follow-up question as well. If Diamondeye DID perform all of these actions himself, what was Psychonaut doing?

Chaotix

05-01-2010, 03:29

Centurion1

05-01-2010, 03:33

im just saying im a normal padawan (i think thats a townie.... :sweatdrop:) and i should be paying more attention but its hard to read through all this with rl in the way.

sorry sigurd, you and your game deserve better.

pevergreen

05-01-2010, 03:37

Vote: TinCow

Trying too hard and if DE is Qui Gon, I want to keep my favourite Jedi alive a bit longer. :beam:

ULC

05-01-2010, 03:42

Did you guys seriously force-reveal Qui-Gon in the thread? REALLY?

Did what happened to me have no impact on your opinions at all? I'm Yoda, and even I could not survive an attack by the Sith. What do you think is going to happen to Diamondeye now, hmm?

Brilliant.

:brood:

You survived one attack, you didn't survive a second. There is only one Sith now, who is pretty much wandering in the dark, looking for a convert that they're likely to never find. DE should be quite invulnerable right now.

Chaotix

05-01-2010, 03:43

About those actions:

-Diamondeye claims to have investigated Niklas and gotten a guilty result at some point. I forget which night this is.
-Nobody can perform two actions on two different people. So Diamondeye did not try to investigate Atris. Does it explicitly mention Qui Gon in that write-up?
-I believe Psychonaut has only limited protection ability as of now.

I am lost in the clues right now. I'm trying to make sense of what's going on. There is no doubt that Diamondeye is who he says he is. However, I find it hard to believe he could be the original Sith Lord. It doesn't fit Qui-Gon. Can a Sith Lord even become the Grand Master?

naut

05-01-2010, 03:51

Thank you for the information, Renata. There is a lot of damning evidence in there about Diamondeye. Before I dig into it though, I'd like some confirmation from Psychonaut and/or Chaotix that ALL of these actions were indeed performed by Diamondeye:
You'll want Chaotix to confirm. Diamondeye was never revealed to be Qui-Gon to me.

I have a follow-up question as well. If Diamondeye DID perform all of these actions himself, what was Psychonaut doing?
The one you quoted, as I've already said, I did nothing. I can use to one action with two abilities, and I had two defensive abilities (one of which Diamondeye drained last night), and the previous day I issued a challenge to the Sith, so I was waiting for them to attack me, which never happened.

----------

Interesting stuff Renata. I'm inclined to believe Diamondeye, you've put him in a similar situation to the one I have been in for most of the game. Kindred spirits and what-not. And Chaotix is right, we really need to stop revealing our strongest roles in thread, it's doing the Sith's job for them.

----------

I've already stayed up too late, but I still haven't recieved the result PM
The basic run-down is you blocked and investigated me, and you took a defensive ability. But, please confirm when you get the chance.

Sasaki Kojiro

05-01-2010, 04:11

Looking at the alive list...bandwagon autolycus?

autolycus

05-01-2010, 04:17

I'm going to agree with Diamondeye here and vote:White_Eyes. I'm inclined to not believe that Qui-gon is our Sith Lord. TinCow I'm all but positive is clean. I would like some more contribution from Centurion.

Diana Abnoba

05-01-2010, 08:03

Dang it dead again, I knew it was coming, well at least I lasted longer than usually do. :laugh4: Best of luck town!! :2thumbsup:

Diamondeye

05-01-2010, 08:39

Dropping by real fast before I have to go out the door...

About those actions:

-Diamondeye claims to have investigated Niklas and gotten a guilty result at some point. I forget which night this is.
-Nobody can perform two actions on two different people. So Diamondeye did not try to investigate Atris. Does it explicitly mention Qui Gon in that write-up?
-I believe Psychonaut has only limited protection ability as of now.

I am lost in the clues right now. I'm trying to make sense of what's going on. There is no doubt that Diamondeye is who he says he is. However, I find it hard to believe he could be the original Sith Lord. It doesn't fit Qui-Gon. Can a Sith Lord even become the Grand Master?

The same night there was a Master upgrade (two actions on same player), there was a Grandmaster upgrade (two actions targets, each 1-2 actions).

You'll want Chaotix to confirm. Diamondeye was never revealed to be Qui-Gon to me.

The one you quoted, as I've already said, I did nothing. I can use to one action with two abilities, and I had two defensive abilities (one of which Diamondeye drained last night), and the previous day I issued a challenge to the Sith, so I was waiting for them to attack me, which never happened.

----------

Interesting stuff Renata. I'm inclined to believe Diamondeye, you've put him in a similar situation to the one I have been in for most of the game. Kindred spirits and what-not. And Chaotix is right, we really need to stop revealing our strongest roles in thread, it's doing the Sith's job for them.

----------

The basic run-down is you blocked and investigated me, and you took a defensive ability. But, please confirm when you get the chance.

Confirmed. I've got myself some defense now, which seems to be perfect timing considering I am a sitting duck of sith attacks tonight.

TinCow, I had Sigurd send me my protection orders before I assumed the Grandmaster title, I'll find them later. Gotta go.

naut

05-01-2010, 08:55

Looking at the alive list...bandwagon autolycus?
I'm tempted, his post below yours is pretty suspect.

Askthepizzaguy

05-01-2010, 10:18

I'd suggest he's worth blocking or scanning or something tonight.

Subotan

05-01-2010, 10:46

Has White_Eyes been implicated by any night actions of his, or is he under pressure for his remarkably scummy behaviour in-thread alone?

For want of some investigation results, Vote:White_Eyes

Renata

05-01-2010, 11:26

Renata

05-01-2010, 14:25

vote: Autolycus

If not DE, and I just can't bring myself to make that call, then I think it should be him or white_eyes.

TinCow

05-01-2010, 14:25

Diamondeye's reveal is now making no sense at all. He claims to have been the person who force-drained Niklas... and we all know that the power that was force-drained was lynch immunity. So, Diamondeye is currently immune to lynching. Why would he then reveal his role un-prompted when he knew he would not be killed by a lynch in the first place?

I am very concerned by this whole reveal. The role is certainly legit, and since no-one has counterclaimed the night actions I assume he did indeed do them all... but his behavior is classic scum in every possible degree. For those looking for evidence of innocence in DE's guilty result on Niklas, keep in mind that was only performed AFTER the metagaming info on Niklas was posted. He was a guaranteed lynch at that point, regardless of any investigation results. In that situation, a smart mafia team would sacrifice one member to boost the prestige of another member who 'investigated' them.

As for Diamondeye being innocent because he is Grand Master... he didn't start in that role. He started as Master, like Beskar. We already know Beskar could have been recruited if he vig killed, so clearly Masters are not unconvertable. In addition, Niklas is our one confirmed Sith and his starting role was Initiate. In Midgard II, Sigurd gave the top Jotun (mafia) role a cover role PM as a Champion, which was the second-highest rank in the game, while the other mafioso got lower ranking cover role PMs. I find it entirely plausible that if Niklas' cover was Initiate, someone who started as Master could be the other starting Sith. When it comes down to it, the ONLY evidence we have of DE's innocence are the multiple night actions that we have seen in the thread. However, we have no idea how the Sith role works. If the Sith are allowed to do an action in addition to their normal cover role actions, then DE could easily be Sith.

Also note that apparently last night Diamondeye drained a defensive ability from Psychonaut. Why a defensive ability? Psychonaut was publicly exposed as a Master and was likely to be attacked at night. He needed the protection. Diamondeye was not exposed as Qui-Gon publicly, so he had less of a need or protection. What he did last night made Psychonaut vulnerable to the Sith.

Finally, please note in Renata's big post that apparently Niklas was aware of Diamondeye's role a long time ago. If he knew, then why wasn't Diamondeye attacked at any point over the last several days? Yoda was offed almost immediately by a double kill... but his GM replacement isn't worth an attack by even a solo Sith?

I suggest we lynch Diamondeye right now because he's got lynch immunity anyway and won't die. With the immunity removed, we can then get rid of him at will in the future if he remains scummy. If we leave him with lynch immunity, we risk being unable to get rid of him if we need to.

Subotan

05-01-2010, 14:40

I don't think we should lynch Diamondeye. Yes, his Master Role PM may be just a cover PM, but he does have a number of alibis, and the primary justification for his lynch appears to be anallegation made by a confirmed mafioso.

That said, someone who claims such a powerful role has to be investigated. Perhaps Kenobi could investigate him tonight, if he has that ability?

TinCow

05-01-2010, 14:42

the primary justification for his lynch appears to be anallegation made by a confirmed mafioso.

:inquisitive: Have you read any of my posts?

Subotan

05-01-2010, 15:08

Yes.

Unless I see proof from others that there are night actions that PROVE he was not killing, I believe he is the strongest candidate.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2480912&viewfull=1#post2480912

and I had two defensive abilities (one of which Diamondeye drained last night),

It appears you have your proof. Why do you want to lynch him now, considering that we might be able to investigate him tonight?

Yaropolk

05-01-2010, 15:10

vote: autoclys sasaki throws an accusation his way and he immediately jumps on WE BW

pevergreen

05-01-2010, 15:30

Theres a white eyes bandwagon?

TinCow

05-01-2010, 15:31

Why do you want to lynch him now, considering that we might be able to investigate him tonight?

Because he's lynch immune and won't die anyway. I do not like the idea of someone as scummy as Diamondeye remaining immune to lynching in future rounds, so best to get rid of that ability now so that we can get rid of him if we need to later on. We did the same thing to Beskar for the exact same reason.

Subotan

05-01-2010, 15:50

Renata

05-01-2010, 16:11

Also note that apparently last night Diamondeye drained a defensive ability from Psychonaut. Why a defensive ability? Psychonaut was publicly exposed as a Master and was likely to be attacked at night. He needed the protection. Diamondeye was not exposed as Qui-Gon publicly, so he had less of a need or protection. What he did last night made Psychonaut vulnerable to the Sith.

Just a few comments -- Psychonaut's other known ability is the force sight, which Diamondeye has no use for (his own investigation skill is clearly better); and Psychonaut was according to him (and me) a suspect, so why not take the defense? This isn't a good argument.

Finally, please note in Renata's big post that apparently Niklas was aware of Diamondeye's role a long time ago. If he knew, then why wasn't Diamondeye attacked at any point over the last several days? Yoda was offed almost immediately by a double kill... but his GM replacement isn't worth an attack by even a solo Sith?

Niklas didn't know DE's role (if DE is town); he knew that DE claimed a protective ability (no role name attached). This in itself should have made him a decent target; however, Diamondeye was scummy in general, so a delay in killing him is not completely out of the question. Protections hardly ever work. It may even be a partial explanation for some of the unusual kill targets -- DE would certainly not have been protecting GH, for instance. What I personally find suggestive about that whole thing is Niklas never bringing up DE again after I "interrogated" him -- I'd have thought he'd have wanted to know if I found out anything.

I suggest we lynch Diamondeye right now because he's got lynch immunity anyway and won't die. With the immunity removed, we can then get rid of him at will in the future if he remains scummy. If we leave him with lynch immunity, we risk being unable to get rid of him if we need to.

This isn't a completely horrible idea. I won't argue against it if TinCow can get some support.

Subotan's got some factual mistakes in his coments but I have no time to address them.

TinCow

05-01-2010, 16:16

It's a waste of a lynch. There are scummier individuals such as pevergreen and WE who don't have the alibis that Diamondeyes has. We should investigate him tonight, or if anyone else can, drain that lynch ability from him if you're concerned.

I do not see any evidence that there are any other investigators or drainers. Apparently all of that info has been coming from Diamondeye himself, with the exception of the name-list info coming from Psychonaut. Psychonaut's information clearly is not very useful in identifying Sith, so I see no reason to believe that there is another Jedi out there who will be able to give us more info on Diamondeye after tonight.

Subotan

05-01-2010, 16:38

I do not see any evidence that there are any other investigators or drainers.
Ah, I stand corrected then. I was of the assumption that all masters could do such things.

In that case, things are a little less clear, and I'm more in tune with Renata's position on the issue.

Sasaki Kojiro

05-01-2010, 17:17

Yaropolk

05-01-2010, 17:20

Chaotix

05-01-2010, 17:41

Just to point out something that may be non obvious. According to beskar, only those who have killed are convertible to sith. Since padawans and initiates don't have lightsabers, they are all inconvertible. It also means Niklas was an original sith. Of course there mây be exceptions who start out being convertible right off the bat.

I proved that to be false with my investigation of him. Both he and ATPG were "susceptible to the Dark Side," even though neither of them killed anyone.

Chaotix

05-01-2010, 17:48

In response to a faulty reasoning:

-That Diamondeye drained a defensive ability from Psychonaut.

When using the drain ability, a force ability MUST be taken if the target has one. A simple investigation is not possible. As Psychonaut has only defensive abilities at this point, that was the only option he has been given. In order to confirm Psychonaut's alignment, we had to drain and roleblock him.

I would still like to see Diamondeye's results before I trust him fully, but right now I stand on his side of the argument.

Vote: white_eyes

I am confident that if he is not Sith already, he is at least susceptible. Let me read the write-up again, and I might have even more conviction...

Kagemusha

05-01-2010, 17:51

I agree that DE's reveal is very suspicious. Especially the haste to claim when he has a lynch immunity, and when chaotix should be able to vouch for him. And his "posting before I go out the door" aka "I know I said I wouldn't be around, so let me emphasize that I don't have much time".

Its strange indeed.If he really had lynch immunity, what rush did he have to reveal himself? I think his immunity should be put to test.

Sasaki Kojiro

05-01-2010, 17:54

Why are we lynching white_eyes?

Chaotix

05-01-2010, 17:56

On a second consulting of the write-up-

Unvote: white_eyes

Unless the write-up is being deliberately confusing, there is no way that white_eyes can be the remaining Sith, due to a gender conflict.

Vote: autolycus

I don't understand the reasoning behind "testing" Diamondeye's lynch immunity. It's a waste of a lynch, period, because it does not even catch a Sith on the off chance that you are right about him. As far as I'm concerned, there's no doubt that he has the ability, as I've seen it in a PM.

Kagemusha

05-01-2010, 18:14

autolycus

05-01-2010, 18:49

Current Vote Tally:
White_Eyes-3-Subotan ,Diamondeye, Autolycus
Autolycus-2-Chaotix, Yaropolk
TinCow-1-pevergreen
Centurion1-1-Atpg

Sasaki Kojiro

05-01-2010, 18:50

Tell me what I want to know autolycus.

Askthepizzaguy

05-01-2010, 18:54

Still think we should look at Centurion1, but I'll switch.

unvote, vote: Autolycus.

autolycus

05-01-2010, 18:59

What do you want to know, Sasaki? I don't believe I'm allowed to send you PMs. I just sent a message to Psychonaut with data about me. I don't think it's necessarily good for everyone to role claim publically when we know the Sith have cover roles. What more do you want?

Sasaki Kojiro

05-01-2010, 19:02

Husar

05-01-2010, 19:25

Well then for Pete´s sake why did he reveal himself? In order for the Sith to kill him?

Maybe because certain people here would have pushed him until he did that anyway?

Askthepizzaguy

05-01-2010, 20:34

We have to decide this soon. I suggest we either pick a third candidate, or move White Eyes votes to Autolycus, or Autolycus votes to white eyes.

ULC

05-01-2010, 21:37

My vote is going to stay on WE simply because I'm not really getting the case for Auto here.

Askthepizzaguy

05-01-2010, 21:39

Then I will remove the tie for now, and hold my objections on Autolycus until he's been blocked or people are ready to be a bit more decisive.

unvote: Autolycus

My case on Autolycus is that he's quiet, passive, and parroting what other people say. He's just going with the flow, which is a great way to survive if people don't notice how scummy it is.

I'm going to agree with Diamondeye here and vote:White_Eyes. I'm inclined to not believe that Qui-gon is our Sith Lord. TinCow I'm all but positive is clean. I would like some more contribution from Centurion.

Such as these kinds of posts.

Sasaki Kojiro

05-01-2010, 21:41

The unvote makes no sense.

Askthepizzaguy

05-01-2010, 21:41

The unvote makes no sense.

A tie makes even less sense.

Tally:

W_E: (4) YLC, Choxorn, Autolycus, Subotan,
Auto: (3) Renata, Yaropolk, Chao,
DE: (1) TinCow
TinCow: (1) pevergreen
pevergreen: (1) Niklas

No vote: ATPG, others.

Renata

05-01-2010, 21:54

Before morning we need to look at Niklas' votes.

Renata

05-01-2010, 21:56

unvote, vote: White_eyes

Just to keep Niklas from tying it and WIFOM-ing us to death.

Askthepizzaguy

05-01-2010, 22:00

Before morning we need to look at Niklas' votes.

Round 2:

Beskar : 15 (Andres, ATPG, auto, Chaotix, Diamondeye, GH, Methos, Niklas, pever, Renata, Sasaki, Secura, Subotan, Yaropolk, Yaseikhaan)

Round 3:

Renata: 1 (Niklas)

Round 4:

Secura: 1 (Niklas)

Round 5:

Belisarius II: 10 (ATPG, Beskar, Centurion1, Chaotix, Greyblades, Niklas, Renata, Sasaki, Thermal, TinCow)

Round 6:

A Very Super Market: 6 (Diamondeye, Greyblades, Kage, Niklas, Psycho, Subotan)

Round 7:

GeneralHankerchief: 5 (atheotes, Diamondeye, Diana, Niklas, Thermal)

Round 8:

Psychonaut: 3 (Greyblades, Kage, Niklas)

Round 9:

Not voting: 2 (AVSM, Niklas)
Was a tied vote with Niklas as part of the tie.

Round 10:
pever: 1 (Niklas)

Most of these votes are meaningless because most of his candidates were already lynched and didn't need his vote, or weren't close to being lynched. Psychonaut could be WIFOM but I doubt it. The replacement player for AVSM is YLC and I didn't believe AVSM was guilty even before Niklas' vote on him.

Sigurd

05-01-2010, 22:02

voting ended...

Renata

05-01-2010, 22:03

Classic mafia voting pattern, Pizza, I'll give you that. :bow:

White_eyes:D

05-01-2010, 22:09

I have no way of knowing if I am recruitable or not but my Character role is pretty clear, that *She* was not really a Jedi....but more of a Sith assassin for most of her life:book:

And I have no intention of being recruited to the *Losing side*, I already told Chaotix about this in a PM request...he should not have backed out:stare:

Vote:White_eyes:D

I feel bad for you Pizzaguy...you just going to be used as cannon fodder so, follow this warning before it is too late:bow:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iz0bCVpEWBE

Askthepizzaguy

05-01-2010, 22:24

Baffling as ever, White_Eyes. I doubt you're Sith, but you didn't really try, so we're not missing much.

Andres,
No Vote
No Vote
Abstain
No Vote
No Vote
No Vote
Vote: pevergreen for the tie that spared Niklas
Next day, didn't even follow up on pevergreen.... No Vote again.
Vote: WhiteEyes (late vote)

Basically, you've succeeded in voting to spare a Sith, and nothing else all game.

Sigurd

05-01-2010, 22:54

Round 11

Night

The voting of today went back and forth, but when the time came for Qui Gon Jinn to return they had found a candidate. Qui-Gon entered the auditorium and was met by one of the Padawans carrying the tally. Qui Gon looked over it and noted that over 1/3 of the assembled Jedi hadn’t bother voting. “Qui Gon looked at them all with a stern face; “This is only going to give the Sith more advantages if you do not participate more. 7 out of 18 didn’t vote, I am tempted to cancel this vote, but I shall not punish those who made an effort by actual voting.

Now, will the Padawan known as Shira Brie please come forward?” A young beautiful woman got to her feet and walked with her face hidden in her hair down to where Qui Gon Jinn stood. She looked up at his stern face through an opening in her hair. Qui Gon looked from her to the crowd: “You have condemned her with your votes and no votes. I will not wash my hands from her blood like a coward. It is I who is the Grand Master and I shall take my share of the responsibility as your leader. Knights!! Take her away.” Two Jedi Knights stepped up to her, one on each side and motioned her to go. They headed out towards the hangar and Shira sobbed all the way. When they finally reached the space barrier, she looked back at the other members of the Jedi with tears running down her chins. She then took a deep breath and stepped bravely out into space vacuum. The air she had tried to hold in her lungs, was mercilessly pulled from her and she died in seconds. Her body was finally retrieved and put together with the others in the morgue.

Qui Gon was blunt: ”Do better next time, people!! Now get back to work.”

Night time until 23:00 GMT+1 Sunday 2nd of Mai (in about 23:00 hours) Night orders in by 22:00 GMT+1 (22 hours from now)

Tally:

White_Eyes:D: 6 (autolycus, Choxorn, Diamondeye, Renata, Subotan, YLC)

autolycus: 2 (Chaotix, Yaropolk)
Diamondeye: 1 (TinCow)
pevergreen: 1 (Niklas)
TinCow: 1 (pever)

Not voting: 7 (ATPG, atheotes, Centurion1, johnhugh, Psychonaut, split, WE:D)

Lynched:

a completely innocent name
TheFlax
Belisarius II
Yaseikhaan
Thermal Mercury
Greyblades
Niklas
White_eyes:D

Killed:

Beefy187
Husar
Captain Blackadder
Khazaar
Csargo
Ibn-Khaldun
Methos
Andres
Beskar
Winston Hughes
Chaotix
Sasaki Kojiro
Joooray
Kagemusha
Secura
atheotes
GeneralHankerchief
Diana Abnoba

Force Ghost:

Chaotix
atheotes
Niklas

Alive:

Askthepizzaguy
autolycus
Centurion1
Choxorn
Diamondeye
johnhughthom
pevergreen
Psychonaut
Renata
splitpersonality
Subotan
TinCow
Yaropolk
YLC

White_eyes:D

05-01-2010, 23:20

Baffling as ever, White_Eyes. I doubt you're Sith, but you didn't really try, so we're not missing much.
Vote: WhiteEyes (late vote)
Basically, you've succeeded in voting to spare a Sith, and nothing else all game. He had a get-out-of a lynch card anyway:shrug:

TinCow

05-01-2010, 23:20

I don't understand the reasoning behind "testing" Diamondeye's lynch immunity. It's a waste of a lynch, period, because it does not even catch a Sith on the off chance that you are right about him. As far as I'm concerned, there's no doubt that he has the ability, as I've seen it in a PM.

It has nothing to do with testing anything, it has everything to do with removing it completely. DE's behavior is extremely scummy, off the charts scummy. The ONLY thing in his favor is his role claim and claimed night actions. For his role claim, we already know that all Sith have cover roles. For the night actions, we have absolutely no idea how the Sith can work at night. So, it boils down to this: DE's scummy behavior versus his night actions, about which we can't conclude anything. Under those circumstances, I do not like us needing TWO lynches to get rid of him. Please remember that the Sith are now actively looking to recruit. Even if we get solid evidence tonight that DE is Sith, there is now no way we can stop him from getting an extra round to recruit even after he's been discovered.

Today's lynch was a waste; you are being blinded by a simple role claim in a game where all mafia have cover roles and Palpatine himself appears not to have been a Sith. I recommend a lot more attention to behavior and a lot less blind worshiping of canon roles.

Sasaki Kojiro

05-01-2010, 23:32

My memory is failing me...wasn't it suggested that niklas was behind beskar's death in some way? Is there some way to see if the sith were taking actions to help quigon-jin up the promotion ladder?

Renata

05-01-2010, 23:44

I don't see how. For all we know, Qui-Gon was first in line behind Yoda. Or the promotions are random. Given my own role PM makes much of me being one of the top padawans on the ship and I've yet to be promoted myself ... I tend to think it may be random.

Renata

05-01-2010, 23:50

Two things I still want answers to, regarding Diamondeye --

Why no protection of Yoda on the night he was killed? Who did you protect instead, DE? You said that Ibn was your only screw-up, but Chaotix would seem to be a bigger one.

DE says his PM specifically states him to be unrecruitable. As far as I remember, no one else but Yoda has made such a claim. If anyone else can back this up as being something halfway common, please tell Chaotix.

I hate weekends. I'm really disappointed that no one but TinCow even tried to put any pressure on Diamondeye.

Sasaki Kojiro

05-02-2010, 00:05

We should lynch him tomorrow.

naut

05-02-2010, 00:17

I hate weekends. I'm really disappointed that no one but TinCow even tried to put any pressure on Diamondeye.
:yes: Near impossible to be online much over the weekend here.

That was a wasted lynch, and I'm glad I didn't vote for him. Now, time to sleep, 21st Birthday Parties are fun, but tiring.

TinCow

05-02-2010, 01:31

DE says his PM specifically states him to be unrecruitable. As far as I remember, no one else but Yoda has made such a claim. If anyone else can back this up as being something halfway common, please tell Chaotix.

My role PM has no information whatsoever on whether I am recruitable or not. I too am curious to see if anyone else will back up his claim.

As I see, there is a HUGE difference between the role that started the game as Grand Master and a role that started as Master and was promoted to Grand Master later. We've already seen that Sith can be promoted, as Niklas was promoted from Initiate to Padawan. Everything I've seen indicates that all aspects of this game are determined by random.org, and promotions are no exception. Diamondeye started as a Master, so he should have a standard Master role PM. Beskar and Psychonaut are our resident Masters here, so they can tell us whether the Master role PM talks about recruitability at all, beyond the bit Beskar has already stated about vig killing causing susceptibility. Help us out, guys.

Renata

05-02-2010, 01:49

Psychonaut shouldn't say anything, I think (unless to Chaotix). If he's definitely not recruitable, best the Sith find that out by trying and failing (dead is better than recruited from a bystander townie's perspective).

atheotes also started as Master, I think, so he should be able to answer.

Edit: no one else should talk about it at all in public, probably. Psychonaut, those bits I left out of your PMs to me; Niklas has seen them. Worth making it public, since the mafia know what's there anyway? Or too much potential for WIFOM?

TinCow

05-02-2010, 01:58

Sasaki Kojiro

05-02-2010, 03:27

Right. There's no reason to trust DE just because his role name is qui-gon and he got promoted into a pro town position. He could just as likely be sith as anyone. And since he's so suspicious, he's more likely.

Methos

05-02-2010, 04:08

Beskar and Psychonaut are our resident Masters here, so they can tell us whether the Master role PM talks about recruitability at all, beyond the bit Beskar has already stated about vig killing causing susceptibility. Help us out, guys.

I started out as a Master and my role PM said nothing about being recruitable, or unrecruitable. The only thing close was my kill ability if I used it.

naut

05-02-2010, 07:13

Hold on, I'm not so sure that Diana's death was a failed conversion attempt. Why would Sigurd make a conversion public? The idea that it was public because it failed bugs me, it does make sense to an extent, you'd expect Luke to be unconvertible, but at the same time it smells too much like WIFOM. Diamondeye says he can perform two actions, and Sigurd's games are well balanced so wouldn't the main Sith (which brings up the question, was Niklas the head-honcho or just an apprentice) probably have a similar number of actions, most likely two also. That would mean they could quite feasibly have attacked and recruited during the preceding night.

Edit - Also, it depends on whether Sigurd allows any input from the Sith, if that is the case then it could have been pure WIFOM.

Diamondeye

05-02-2010, 10:17

List of protective night actions (before promotion, excluding the night I missed (Ibn Khaldun's death)):

For now, I'll settle with protecting Beskar.

Will I get any kind of information as to whether my target was attacked, and/or whether (s)he is active the night I am protecting them?

((Ibn Khaldun is killed))

Tonight, I'll protect GeneralHankerchief for what it's worth.

Also, apologies for not sending in an order last night. I might even have saved Ibn :bow:

AskThePizzaGuy needs protection this round, I bet...

For now, I'll go with Psychonaut. I might want to change that later, though...

Actually, this last protection (th night where Chaotix was killed, I believe), I was acting in coorporation with Chaotix; He had been revealed as Yoda and I sent him a PM, suggesting that I protected Psychonaut (who was also out in the open) while Yoda protected/investigated me to make sure I was innocent. That is why I was not protecting Yoda.

By the looks of Yoda's death, though, I believe a simple "Force Healing" would have done him little good, but that's just post-event justification my mind used to convince me I had done the real thing.

I did not block Belth on night 7, I see that's one of the questions for me. I do not believe I had the roleblock power before that night, so someone else must have done that.

I have nothing against dying to help the town win, but wasting two lynches to deal with me is giving the sith time to recover and overpower us. If I have to die, I hope and pray that it will be at the hands of a sith.

If that is the best to the town, I will ask people not to protect me tonight and will remain defenceless in the event that the sith should attack me. Is that the will of the town?

Also, I am pretty annoyed at the fact that I explicitly asked for a suspect which I could scan tonight, and instead I'm being drowned in votes against me. Sure, I bet my own safety, but that was because I wanted the town to act without the hurdle of confusion as to my role. Seems I achieved the absolute opposite.

I hope my scan or my block catches the sith tonight. Even if you lynch me tomorrow, I will have one shot at vigilante-killing the remaining sith (thus winning even if it makes me susceptible to the dark side). But more than that I hope the town will actually believe my claim, no matter how suspicious my in-thread behaviour seems to them.

Askthepizzaguy

05-02-2010, 10:40

I wouldn't be as concerned with what others think. Just protect yourself tonight.

TinCow

05-02-2010, 13:15

I did not block Belth on night 7, I see that's one of the questions for me. I do not believe I had the roleblock power before that night, so someone else must have done that.

Chaotix (Yoda) died on N6, and you became Grand Master the same night (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?127629-StarWars-Mafia-RotS-Summary-and-information-thread&p=2476488&viewfull=1#post2476488). Earlier you said you "have the Investigation/draining and roleblocking abilities of the former grandmaster (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2480842&viewfull=1#post2480842)." As is clear, you specifically said you got the roleblocking power "of the former grandmaster." Yet now you say you didn't have it on N7? So, you were promoted to Grand Master on N6, but did not get Yoda's Grand Master powers the same night you were promoted?

Also, I am pretty annoyed at the fact that I explicitly asked for a suspect which I could scan tonight, and instead I'm being drowned in votes against me. Sure, I bet my own safety, but that was because I wanted the town to act without the hurdle of confusion as to my role. Seems I achieved the absolute opposite.

First, you were never "being drowned in votes." I was the only person who actually voted for you. Nice exaggeration though. Second, why do we have to pick your targets for you? Surely that's not too difficult given the small number of people left in the game.

autolycus

05-02-2010, 14:10

You want suggestions for who to block/scan? Well, judging by yesterday, it seems like a lot of people would like me checked. I think pevergreen would also be a good choice for scannage.

pevergreen

05-02-2010, 14:41

I think pevergreen would also be a good choice for scannage.

:no:

Don't be scanning this!

Belisarius II

05-02-2010, 16:03

I can't help but keep on suspecting Saskai even in death. Practically no one has voted on him throughout the entire game, and all his posts are: "Let's lynch him" "Let's lynch her" "He's a good lynch"

Every round he's done this. He appears to continually try to start a bandwagon on some one he feels scummy. He also keeps on claiming to be pro-town, but how do we know that? Everyone here seems to believe everything he says, he could be ordering you about and you wouldn't think twice.

Just can't shake my suspicions.

EDIT: My mistake, he's already dead, whoops! Ignore this rant then.

Subotan

05-02-2010, 16:06

No-one is voting for Sasaki as he happens to be dead

Diamondeye

05-02-2010, 16:15

Chaotix (Yoda) died on N6, and you became Grand Master the same night (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?127629-StarWars-Mafia-RotS-Summary-and-information-thread&p=2476488&viewfull=1#post2476488). Earlier you said you "have the Investigation/draining and roleblocking abilities of the former grandmaster (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2480842&viewfull=1#post2480842)." As is clear, you specifically said you got the roleblocking power "of the former grandmaster." Yet now you say you didn't have it on N7? So, you were promoted to Grand Master on N6, but did not get Yoda's Grand Master powers the same night you were promoted?

No and I have never said so. I do however, now (and when I said that quote), have both of the Grandmaster abilities (Scan and block). The interrogation came before the block.

First, you were never "being drowned in votes." I was the only person who actually voted for you. Nice exaggeration though. Second, why do we have to pick your targets for you? Surely that's not too difficult given the small number of people left in the game.

Okay, I am trying to listen to the town and take advice from people more experienced than me, but apparently that's not what I'm intended to do, right?

If the game wasn't at stake on it I would vigilante kill you to prove my point here(!). I'm ready for suggestion from the town, the confirmed innocents (dead and 2 of the ghosts), and so on, whether TinCow likes it or not. If you don't feel like voicing concerns in public, PM me your suspicions instead. Now that I revealed I might as well get the most out of it, right?

Renata

05-02-2010, 16:23

Diamondeye

05-02-2010, 18:29

If you want to PM me with *your* suspicions, Diamondeye (and the reasons for them), then I'll happily reply.

One more thing in the meantime: when Belth Allusis was roleblocked, Chaotix was dead, and you say you didn't do it. So then who did? You say it's a grandmaster ability. There should only be one of you, if I understand right.

The Morichro block ability is a grandmaster power. I can only say that I didn't block him, I don't know who did, but if he was indeed blocked someone must have done it. I was just asked to honestly answer which night actions were mine and I've done exactly that.

Will be back later, going to eat now :beam:

Choxorn

05-02-2010, 19:57

Wait, so you didn't protect anyone night one, or anyone after Chaotix died and you became grandmaster?

Sasaki Kojiro

05-02-2010, 20:02

Choxorn is scummy.

Diamondeye

05-02-2010, 20:16

Wait, so you didn't protect anyone night one, or anyone after Chaotix died and you became grandmaster?

I obviously got the investigation ability and used that instead...

And I believe it was Night 2 I missed. The initial nightphase (Night 0, if you will) was where I got my protective ability.

Renata

05-02-2010, 21:06

On Night Seven:
-- Atris (Kagemusha) killed by lightsaber (ditto), cloaked person. Mention of speed.
-- Micah Giett (Secura) killed by choke, amber eyes, cloak
-- Belth Allusis (I don't know who this is) is roleblocked (Diamondeye)
-- Atris (Kagemusha) is to be investigated, but is already dead (Diamondeye)

So Diamondeye says he didn't do the roleblock this night -- who did?

Edit: I thought maybe atheotes given he's a force ghost and all, but he's referred to as having been only a Master, not GrandMaster. I don't get why Diamondeye would lie about this even if he is Sith (unless to deny the knowledge of who Belth Allusis is?), but I also don't get why the head Sith (to my knowledge the only other Grand Master level player who ought to be in the game) would roleblock that one night and never again.

Confusing.

Secura

05-02-2010, 21:35

but I also don't get why the head Sith (to my knowledge the only other Grand Master level player who ought to be in the game) would roleblock that one night and never again.

Confusing.

For this exact reason... it's probably WIFOM to confuse people such as yourself who read back through the thread and analyse posts such as these.

Personally, I didn't particularly believe Chaotix's claim that he was the only role capable of roleblocking; just because it was a Grand Master ability for Jedi, doesn't make it so for Sith, right?

Renata

05-02-2010, 21:42

No, but for our purposes that's kind of irrelevant. Same argument applies if it was Niklas rather than the head Sith.

Secura

05-02-2010, 22:21

if it was Niklas rather than the head Sith.

So you don't believe that Niklas was the head honcho?

Renata

05-02-2010, 23:35

You think Sigurd misled us with the "My Master will kill you all" business?

White_eyes:D

05-02-2010, 23:36

Darth does not equal Sith Lord.....
"There's no doubt the mysterious warrior was a Sith."
"Always two there are. No more, no less. A Master and an apprentice."
"But which was destroyed, the Master, or the Apprentice?"
―Mace Windu and Yoda, about Darth Maul

Sigurd

05-03-2010, 00:37

Sorry people about the late update. I had a RL situation right around the time when this was supposed to be posted, involving a little girl and some vomit...

Round 11

Day

Streen returned to his cabin. Outside waited a well known person. “Hey.. What are you doing here?” Streen asked. The person looked a bit troubled, but answered: “I need to talk to you.”
Streen showed the person into his cabin. “Now what was it you wanted to tal… abou….” Streen’s world turned and he went down like a sack of wood. The pain in his mind was excruciating. It was like the very thoughts were drained from his mind. The visiting person looked disappointed. Streen woke up a while later not remembering how he got into his own cabin.

Githany walked the halls of the quarters on her way back from a long day.
On his way she met a well known person. They accompanied each other a ways way.
Suddenly the person made a gesture and Githany’s world was turned upside down. She hit the floor hard, her life vitals idling.

Barrison Draay was utterly tired after a long day. He never got used to the 24 hour days. The hallways were dark around his cabin and he was not enjoying walking alone here after the happenings since they arrived on this ancient beast.
He was getting close to his cabin when he felt a presence. His lightsaber ignited and the green hue lit up the dark hallway. He walked slowly towards an adjacent hallway and sneaked around the corner. There in the middle of the hallway stood a dark figure shrouded in a dark cloak and crimson lightsabre burning in the right hand. Barrison walked out into the hallway determined to not lose this fight. He took his defensive stance. The cloaked figure stared at him with glowing amber eyes as if assessing him. Barrison was not too comfortable with the situation. The figure finally looked a bit disappointed, if one could attribute such emotions to those hard amber eyes emitting pure hatred. The figure lifted one hand and lightening shot out of it. Barrison Draay felt the agonizing electricity pounding the very core of his being. It took only a little while before darkness overcame him.

Tahiri Veila was not too happy about being on this death trap. She had worried about getting attacked every night since the first murders. She looked nervously over her shoulder every now and then on the way to her cabin. She never saw the cloaked figure that stood there silently in the hall with head bowed. When she finally noticed the figure, she cried out. The cloaked figure jerked to and bored amber eyes into her very soul. Tahiri turned, enhanced her physique and started running away from the cloaked figure. She was picking up good speed and was confident that she would get away. She did not feel the surge of air that built up behind her and swept her away and crushed her frame into and through the wall that ended the hallway she was running through.

Somewhere a member of the Jedi expedition force was meditating.
He had started his usual routine, but was suddenly overcome with peace and elevation as a presence surged into his very being. He heard a call from somewhere and followed the directions he received. The directions led to a special storage area.

The next morning when they met together they were three less. Obi Wan looked worried about the prospect that the Sith was getting stronger, when Githany finally entered the auditorium. She looked haggard from a night spent in the hallway. She was not happy about it and her temper was rather short. Her eyes were shooting down anyone looking at her. Qui-Gon stopped the inquisitory stares by announcing: “Well, let’s find out if the other two is also just late.” A few Jedi Knights went to investigate. They soon returned, grim faces betraying that the two was in fact dead.
“Alright, people, let’s get this thing going. Let’s find the Sith once and for all.”

We lost a Padawan and one of our Jedi Knights last night. I will therefore promote Sifo-Dyas to the rank of Padawan. I would also like to promote Streen to Jedi Knight, you have been showing great progress lately. Congratulations to the both of you!!!

You have until 23:00 GMT+1 Monday 3rd of Mai (21,5 hours from now)

Lynched:

a completely innocent name
TheFlax
Belisarius II
Yaseikhaan
Thermal Mercury
Greyblades
Niklas
White_eyes:D

Killed:

Beefy187
Husar
Captain Blackadder
Khazaar
Csargo
Ibn-Khaldun
Methos
Andres
Beskar
Winston Hughes
Chaotix
Sasaki Kojiro
Joooray
Kagemusha
Secura
atheotes
GeneralHankerchief
Diana Abnoba
Yaropolk
Renata

Force Ghost:

Chaotix
atheotes
Niklas

Alive:

Askthepizzaguy
autolycus
Centurion1
Choxorn
Diamondeye
johnhughthom
pevergreen
Psychonaut
splitpersonality
Subotan
TinCow
YLC