Large Mafia Game StarWars: Return of the Sith [Concluded] [Archive] - Page 14

Sigurd

05-14-2010, 23:46

Round 17

Day

Nomi Sunrider looked intensely at her companions. They never betrayed any Sith like behaviour. She began to doubt that the Sith was among the people gathered in the auditorium. She finally announced: “All right gentlemen, I am beginning to tire of this. I will never get used to these 24 hour sessions. My mind is so tired I am seeing things. Let’s call it a day and get some much needed sleep.” The other’s agreed as they too looked exhausted.
The ethereal beings, but one - looked worried. Only one seemed to smirk.

They all left the auditorium heading back to their own bunks, taking separate ways.

Nomi Sunrider took the long way round to maybe fool any stalkers. She was nearing her cabin when she felt immediate danger. She quickly erected a force barrier around herself and took her stance. A cloaked being approached her from around a corner. She was ready. Her training had awarded her the rank of Grand Master and she knew a few tricks.
The dark being approached with a looming presence and Nomi felt small where she stood. A pair of glowing amber eyes looked at her with contempt. The being reached out towards her and Nomi suddenly felt the world turning. She reacted instinctively and gathered a small portion of force and released it towards her assailant. The dark and cloaked being flew down the hallway and struck the floor hard. Nomi was still a little shaky but her wits came back to her like a small trickle. The cloaked being leaped up from the floor and rushed towards her with outstretched hands. Nomi heard a rush of air around her outside the force barrier and she could feel it weakening quickly. The walls, floor and ceiling vanished from this torrent of the force that came her way, but her barrier held. With the flooring gone, she fell down to the level underneath. The cloaked being jumped down after her.
The cloaked being moved the golden amber eyes around as if searching for something. This was all Nomi needed. She let a trickle of the force run through her body and bolted from the scene. The cloaked being cursed seeing Nomi gone.

Streen was heading towards his cabin when he yet again felt danger. Who was it this time? He needed sleep not contending with yet an assailant.
The shadows were many in this particular hallway and he backed up against one of them and vanished.
A cloaked being with glowing amber eyes came into view searching for something or someone. The cloaked being stopped near where Streen was hiding and seemed to listen intently. Streen could hear his own deafening heart beats and hoped this creature wasn’t able to her them also.
The cloaked being drew a lightsabre and ignited it. The crimson light from it dispelled the shadows as the being walked around in the hallway. The cloaked being suddenly swung the lightsabre in a peculiar arch and twirled letting the blade follow with an outstretched hand as if the cloaked being was about to decapitate someone. The blade was mere inches from Streen when the being let the crimson plasma blade fade. The cloaked being left the hallway looking a bit disappointed.

The night went and they were yet again all gathered in the auditorium.
Nomi started by saying: “We didn’t lose any last night..” This is good. But we need to continue the discussion of there being Sith on this ship.
The ethereal beings of Yoda, Qui-Gon Jinn, Kenth Hamner, Belth Allusius and Darth Nihl appeared yet again ready to make their advice.

Vote away people… I might end this round a bit before 23:00 GMT+1 ya know to speed things up a bit. I’ll see how things develops. The round will definitely end by 23:00 GMT+1 and you should know when that is in your own local time.

Lynched:

a completely innocent name
TheFlax
Belisarius II
Yaseikhaan
Thermal Mercury
Greyblades
Niklas
White_eyes:D
autolycus
Centurion1
Psychonaut

Killed:

Beefy187
Husar
Captain Blackadder
Khazaar
Csargo
Ibn-Khaldun
Methos
Andres
Beskar
Winston Hughes
Chaotix
Sasaki Kojiro
Joooray
Kagemusha
Secura
atheotes
GeneralHankerchief
Diana Abnoba
Yaropolk
Renata
YLC
Choxorn
johnhughthom
splitpersonality
TinCow
Diamondeye

Force Ghost:

Chaotix
atheotes
Niklas
TinCow
Diamondeye

Alive:

Askthepizzaguy
pevergreen
Subotan

Subotan

05-14-2010, 23:49

Vote:pevergreen

That was bad

Askthepizzaguy

05-14-2010, 23:51

Vote: Subotan

You can't win, Darth. If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.

TinCow

05-14-2010, 23:52

Looks like we actually caught a break.

Vote: Subotan

Niklas

05-15-2010, 00:03

And here we play an almost perfect game from start to end, only to have it foiled by some joker who doesn't want to win. I'm speechless.

vote: pevergreen

To those of you who considered this a "classic before it ended": please don't let this game be remembered for being screwed over in the end. Sure you can call it a "break" if you like - I call it ridiculous.

Subotan

05-15-2010, 00:05

I would like to point out that this falls under the category of "freak set of events" that Psycho described. I'm aware that my previous boasting means that I am now left with egg on my face; I fully accept any responsibility for any now-embarrassing comments which I may have previously made.

Sasaki Kojiro

05-15-2010, 00:07

vote:pevergreen

TinCow

05-15-2010, 00:32

Niklas

05-15-2010, 00:41

pevergreen apparently saw fit to attack Subotan instead of ATPG, throwing away his team's chances to win for who knows what reasons. He knew Subotan would be cloaked so even had there been any sense to it, he must have known it would fail.

Sasaki Kojiro

05-15-2010, 00:58

So you guys are pretending like pever is your partner?

Niklas

05-15-2010, 01:00

That's indeed what we thought. pevergreen was recruited after Psychonaut was lynched.

Askthepizzaguy

05-15-2010, 01:22

After speaking with everyone, I know what happened.

The Sith are able to recruit ad infinitum, the only restriction being you can't recruit Grandmasters or initiates it seems.

The game is a last man standing event. In the end, one Sith would eventually turn on the other, if there were two standing. Which makes sense because it's the only way to balance perpetually recruiting Sith. And it is very "Star Wars" of the Sith to turn on each other.

I became Grandmaster of the order after being Master very briefly. I didn't even get a second active ability... I'm the weakest Grandmaster ever. I couldn't even protect pevergreen last night as I intended.

pevergreen knows that I can't be lynched today and also that I was defended last night. His hope was to defeat Subotan while Subotan was trying to kill me, and go for a total victory for himself... the last one standing.

He also knows that Subotan could defeat me one on one and I'm more powerful than pevergreen. So, pevergreen's only chance was to overthrow the Sith lord, gain additional Sith powers in the process, and face me instead of Subotan in the final battle, where he stands a greater chance of victory.

Hence, the game is perfectly balanced. Subotan could have killed pevergreen last night as he was undefended. If I had been grandmaster sooner, I could have killed pevergreen as well, defending against attack and defeating pevergreen with Force Lightening. pevergreen could win because Subotan is about to be destroyed.

In the end, either team, and any man, could win. And thus the game is balanced, and pevergreen's move wasn't a bad move, it was actually quite brilliant. A shame he didn't beat Subotan outright, but this is the same thing.

pevergreen can probably beat me, because I don't think we're allowed to use cheap stuff like Force Protect and Destruction for our duel. probably will be a rock, paper, scissors style match.

TinCow

05-15-2010, 01:30

The Sith are able to recruit ad infinitum, the only restriction being you can't recruit Grandmasters or initiates it seems.

So, no matter what we did, the game was always going to come down to an ending like this?

Niklas

05-15-2010, 01:31

I have a different view than ATPG on what happened.

This game is probably not what you, the innocents, thought it was. In Sigurd's own words: "If you haven't recognised the game setup yet - it is a Grand Master vs. Dark Lord showdown, last man standing kind of game." No matter how many of us you would have lynched, we would have recruited another to take their place, rule of two and all that jazz. Psychonaut was recruited right after I was lynched, pevergreen was recruited right after Psychonaut was lynched. And what's more - random.org decided the recruits, not us. We had no power over who joined our side whatsoever (sorry YLC).

However, continuing with Sigurd's own words: "And so you don't lose heart - there is still the team win recognition." So basically this is both a last man standing game, but also a conventional mafia game, all in one. pevergreen seems to have freaked out when he found out about the last man standing component, believing that he would have to fight (the far more powerful) Subotan after ATPG was killed. That may have been the case, Sigurd hasn't clarified for us beyond the above, but even so he would have been on the winning side. Either that's what happened, or pevergreen simply didn't take well to being recruited, after spending the whole game as innocent. ATPG has shown me the conversation he and pevergreen had before last night, where pevergreen discusses how he wants to see Subotan dead.

If this game had been solely a last man standing event, pevergreen's move could have made sense, except A) he knew Subotan was using Force Cloak, and B) he won't be able to beat ATPG anymore than he could beat Subotan. So in freaking out, he threw away a team victory for not just himself but for the rest of us as well, possibly vainly trying to pursue a last man standing win that was out of his reach no matter what.

TinCow

05-15-2010, 01:34

So, essentially... it was totally pointless for us to even bother trying to find and lynch the Sith before this point? :huh:

Niklas

05-15-2010, 01:40

So, essentially... it was totally pointless for us to even bother trying to find and lynch the Sith before this point? :huh:
No, because each Sith started out pretty weak and grew more and more powerful as the game progressed. Just like Nomi Sunrider now is not what Yoda was back then, and nowhere near what Yoda would have been if he was still alive, so also was Psychonaut and pevergreen not what me and Subotan would have been at a final showdown. By taking down masters and grandmasters, we assured that the final Grandmaster would be relatively weak, at the price of generating more light-side force ghosts that would vote against us in the late game. Similarly by taking down the starting Sith, you could have been (and, as it would seem, will be) facing a relatively weak Dark Lord of the Sith in the final showdown.

Askthepizzaguy

05-15-2010, 01:41

So, essentially... it was totally pointless for us to even bother trying to find and lynch the Sith before this point? :huh:

I disagree.

With blocking powers and vigilante powers, the Jedi can defeat the Sith utterly. Just have to be lucky.

Kill one Sith, next day lynch the other. No chance of recruitment.

Choxorn

05-15-2010, 01:52

Unless the Sith can't be vigilante-killed.

Sasaki Kojiro

05-15-2010, 01:53

so if we lynch sith today, pizza becomes a sith recruit.

Askthepizzaguy

05-15-2010, 01:54

Unless the Sith can't be vigilante-killed.

There is something that can break through Force Cloak.

I don't know what it is, but it has to exist.

@Sasaki-

No, because I'm the Grandmaster. I cannot be turned to the Dark Side.

That's right, scummy sith-susceptible pizza is now the most incorruptible Jedi ever. :beam:

Niklas

05-15-2010, 01:55

Unless the Sith can't be vigilante-killed.
Sure we can. But if you had killed two of us the same night, two new would have risen (or at least so I've been led to believe). It's the holocron that does the recruitment, not us.

so if we lynch sith today, pizza becomes a sith recruit.
No, because Pizza is Grandmaster he is not susceptible.

There is something that can break through Force Cloak.

I don't know what it is, but it has to exist.
Force Destruction

Sasaki Kojiro

05-15-2010, 01:57

Eww. That mechanic makes me kind of grateful I went on auto-pilot round 6 or so.

Askthepizzaguy

05-15-2010, 01:58

Force Destruction

Well that's a tad unfair... Jedi can't learn that AFAIK.

Niklas

05-15-2010, 02:01

Well that's a tad unfair... Jedi can't learn that AFAIK.
Not sure what the Jedi Grandmaster can learn and not. I'm also not sure if it's the only power that beats Cloak (or even if I'm correct in my assumption that it does).

Renata

05-15-2010, 02:16

I'll I'm absorbing is that I wasn't right about Psychonaut after all. Woe. Bad townie, Psychonaut, bad townie.

TinCow

05-15-2010, 02:18

Sure we can. But if you had killed two of us the same night, two new would have risen (or at least so I've been led to believe). It's the holocron that does the recruitment, not us.

This... disappoints me. A last man standing game is interesting, but it's somewhat unfair for the vast majority of the players to be unaware that they were playing a last man standing game. I could easily have survived your third attack on me if I had defended myself, but I wasn't concerned with my own survival and thought it was more important to try and vig kill one of you. Had I been aware of the nature of the game, I would have made very different choices. I'm sure many others would have as well.

Renata

05-15-2010, 02:23

Also, bad townie me.

Niklas

05-15-2010, 02:33

A last man standing game is interesting, but it's somewhat unfair for the vast majority of the players to be unaware that they were playing a last man standing game.
We were not aware of the full nature of the game until quite recently either. We could guess, but didn't manage to guess it fully correct until Sigurd told us. That said - I don't think it makes much sense to play this as a last man standing game solely. It's a team game, just like any mafia game, and it's the team aspect that matters in the end, at least for me.

I could easily have survived your third attack on me if I had defended myself, but I wasn't concerned with my own survival and thought it was more important to try and vig kill one of you.
I beg to differ. You may have been powerful, but the third time we gave you a double whammy, like we did with Yoda. ~;)

TinCow

05-15-2010, 02:36

We were not aware of the full nature of the game until quite recently either. We could guess, but didn't manage to guess it fully correct until Sigurd told us. That said - I don't think it makes much sense to play this as a last man standing game solely. It's a team game, just like any mafia game, and it's the team aspect that matters in the end, at least for me.

Infinitely recruiting mafioso with no chance of recruitment failure, and no need for the mafioso to spend an action recruiting is not like any mafia game. It's mafia-whack-a-mole, played by a blind man without a mallet.

I beg to differ. You may have been powerful, but the third time we gave you a double whammy, like we did with Yoda. ~;)

Yeah, but I had Force Cloak and you didn't use Force Destruction.

pevergreen

05-15-2010, 02:41

Vote: Subotan

The circle is now complete.

You have no chance Subotan. For the last two nights I have gained both Jedi and Sith powers, fufilling my destiny to bring balance to the force.

I am simply playing how I have been all game, and how I envisage Kyp would.

As ATPG and I agreed, tonight shall be me vs him until the death.

Niklas

05-15-2010, 02:43

Infinitely recruiting mafioso with no chance of recruitment failure, and no need for the mafioso to spend an action recruiting is not like any mafia game. It's mafia-whack-a-mole, played by a blind man without a mallet.
Certainly true to some extent. We also felt like fumbling in the dark for long periods of the game. We had no idea how recruitment would work until we suddenly had Psychonaut among us.

Yeah, but I had Force Cloak and you didn't use Force Destruction.
Sure we did, it was the 4th power out of 4 used on you, and it just so happened that it didn't take all 4 abilities to take you down. ~:)

Niklas

05-15-2010, 02:44

I am simply playing how I have been all game, and how I envisage Kyp would.
That's so sad that it almost makes me laugh.

Askthepizzaguy

05-15-2010, 02:46

Infinitely recruiting mafioso with no chance of recruitment failure, and no need for the mafioso to spend an action recruiting is not like any mafia game. It's mafia-whack-a-mole, played by a blind man without a mallet.

That's nearly true except the Sith's actions can fail and we have blocking, investigatory, lynching, and vigilante powers.

IF:

We had lynched both Sith Lords early, and kept our masters and grandmasters alive longer, then we would have better powers than the Sith
We may have been able to scan the new recruits before they got Force Cloak, or lynched anyone found to have it.
We could have waited to do that until we found his partner, vigilante killed his partner and then lynched Force Cloak man, defeating 2 Sith before a recruitment is possible.

Still, without knowing the nature of the game this is highly improbable.

pevergreen

05-15-2010, 02:47

Never claimed to be town aligned even when technically town aligned, never claimed to be mafia even when mafia aligned.

Sigurd did try to warn me though, I'm guessing I'm not allowed to actually kill Subo, since he wasn't stopping me from chopping him up, and I still had a force power to use.

TinCow

05-15-2010, 02:49

That's nearly true except the Sith's actions can fail and we have blocking and lynching and vigilante powers.

IF:

We had lynched both Sith Lords early, and kept our masters and grandmasters alive longer, then we would have better powers than the Sith
We may have been able to scan the new recruits before they got Force Cloak, or lynched anyone found to have it.
We could have waited to do that until we found his partner, vigilante killed his partner and then lynched Force Cloak man, defeating 2 Sith before a recruitment is possible.

Still, without knowing the nature of the game this is highly improbable.

No, keeping Masters alive longer is actually a liability. Based on what's been said, everyone by the GM will eventually turn Sith, no matter what. So, a Master who survived the entire game as pro-town and became incredibly powerful would just flip over to Sith in the last rounds as the Sith were whittled down. Basically, all that really mattered was the survival of the GM. Nothing else made a difference, and powerful Jedi were as much a threat to the town as a benefit.

atheotes

05-15-2010, 02:50

:no: i am not sure what to make of all this...good that ATPG survived the night.
I am not going to think about the mechanics right now. I hope it is not a last-man standing with unlimited automatic recruitment. But i will wait till the game is over and all is revealed.

Vote: Subotan

pevergreen

05-15-2010, 02:51

Yeah, interesting.

No point voting for me or ATPG, we both have lynch immunity.

Askthepizzaguy

05-15-2010, 02:56

No, keeping Masters alive longer is actually a liability. Based on what's been said, everyone by the GM will eventually turn Sith, no matter what. So, a Master who survived the entire game as pro-town and became incredibly powerful would just flip over to Sith in the last rounds as the Sith were whittled down. Basically, all that really mattered was the survival of the GM. Nothing else made a difference, and powerful Jedi were as much a threat to the town as a benefit.

Yikes that's actually true.

If Sigurd is the excellent host I believe he is, we are missing something obvious, like both starting Sith have to die before the recruitment stops, which is my original balancing theory. Since Subotan is the original, he was able to recruit even after Psycho went down.

Choxorn

05-15-2010, 04:48

No. It's, as Niklas said, handled by the holocron. They can infinitely recruit, even if there aren't any Sith currently alive.

pevergreen

05-15-2010, 04:50

I apologise, let us all bow to the wisdom of a dead player who isnt the host. :wink:

Chaotix

05-15-2010, 04:54

Based on all of the above revelations, the best way to win this game as the town:

-Find out who both of the Sith are, and let them live.
-Lynch them, one after another, in the last two rounds.
-Protect the original Grand Master the whole way and don't let him die.

Strong Grand Master vs. Weak Dark Lord

If only we had known about this earlier...

Chaotix

05-15-2010, 04:54

Also, Vote: Subotan

Some chance is better than no chance.

seireikhaan

05-15-2010, 06:02

I must say, if the game has come down as I am perceiving it, I am... most disappointed. No offense intended, Sigurd, but I take TC's view. It looks as though the town had very little chance. I admit that I was mistaken about Beskar. However, there surely must be more to the colossal town failure than early paranoia. Too many sith, too easy of recruitment, and apparently almost nobody who was "resistant" to the dark side. I think TC summarized it best- a blind man playing whack-a-mole. I think he may have had a hammer, but for all I know, that may have been illusory as well.

Niklas

05-15-2010, 09:45

Never claimed to be town aligned even when technically town aligned, never claimed to be mafia even when mafia aligned.
So you decided not to play the game Sigurd offered, but decide on your own game mechanics instead, messing it up for the rest of us. While I do enjoy role-playing in these kinds of games, it has to be done within the framework of the rules. First and foremost we are playing a game, with mechanics given by the host. Doing anything else might make sense in a free-form role-playing game, but not here.

I remember my very first Night of the Werewolves game over at CFC. It was a brilliant game, both the mechanics and the storyline were really interesting. We all played mages trapped in a form of eternal prison/protection bubble that we ourselves had created to shield ourselves from a world-wide cataclysm. The mafia killers were a kind of angels sent to end our unnatural existence, and we would finally be able to escape if we killed them. We lost that game to the angels because one of the town decided that his (totally town) character would rather die by the sword of an angel than live an unnaturally extended life. He just couldn't understand the concept of game mechanics, and was actually upset when the host wouldn't list him as a winner along with the angels at the end. Apparently pevergreen is just as bad, deciding on his own kind of "victory" and screwing the rest of us for it.

So in the end, town wins this game because of a random 50-50 dice role between whether to recruit pevergreen or ATPG. Way to go. I still think you should all join me in voting pevergreen today, even if that means less chances for town to win. Would it truly feel good to win this game only by standing on the shoulders of pevergreen's stupidity?

Yes, I'm bitter.

However, there surely must be more to the colossal town failure than early paranoia.
Well, regardless of might-have-beens, you still failed to lynch Subotan before the very final rounds when we dropped all pretense. And you lynched me due to a stoopid mistake on my part. So even had the game been exactly what you thought it was, it would still have been a colossal town failure. No offense, of course. ~;)

Askthepizzaguy

05-15-2010, 10:05

Lynching Subotan wouldn't have done anything when he had Force Breath, though.

Niklas

05-15-2010, 10:16

It would have taken two lynches to take him down, yes. My point still stands.

pevergreen

05-15-2010, 10:34

Secura

05-15-2010, 12:35

I think that pevergreen's choices are great, actually... they're so typically Sith and I think that he can be proud of taking such a stance. Don't let this descend into flinging insults at one another, though... it's just mafia, that's how things happen.

I have to agree with TinCow and Yaseikhann, though... I recall something that Renata said in a game a few months back that pretty much summarises my own sentiments about the game: "I've never felt more useless as a townie".

When Renata said that she felt like she was nothing more than kill fodder in Noblesse Oblige, I wondered what she meant, but now it's obvious to me; I was unrecruitable by Sith, completely unable to use a lightsaber or the Force... I found the game really interesting to read and it was genuinely riveting to watch how things unfolded, but I have to be honest and say that I found it utterly boring to play because I felt so useless in the grand scheme of things. The new information that's come to light regarding an infinite cycle of Sith recruitment merely reinforces this notion for me.

I had looked forward to the game from the very moment I joined the Org, but found that the game was ultimately more interesting after I'd died. :/

Beskar

05-15-2010, 12:44

I admit that I was mistaken about Beskar.

Understatement of the year, yousillykhaan.

pevergreen

05-15-2010, 12:53

I think that pevergreen's choices are great, actually... they're so typically Sith and I think that he can be proud of taking such a stance.

Thank you. As I said to ATPG, is it not the duty of the apprentice to take over from his master? More often by killing him? Strike me down and give in to the dark side etc.

Do night orders absolutely have to go through the Sith quicktopic?
Ambitions..have we? :beam:

You can make official orders in the QT, and change them via PM later after I have made the confirmed statement.
I told Subotan this early in the game too. But he opted not to go up against his master, as I warned him that it could backfire. The Master is the more powerful Sith.

Sigurd

So perhaps subotan was thinking about it as well?

Hmmmm. How annoyed would you be if that happened Niklas. Sigurd has hosted enough games to know when he can let mafia attack their own team.

TinCow

05-15-2010, 13:53

So in the end, town wins this game because of a random 50-50 dice role between whether to recruit pevergreen or ATPG. Way to go. I still think you should all join me in voting pevergreen today, even if that means less chances for town to win. Would it truly feel good to win this game only by standing on the shoulders of pevergreen's stupidity?

Well, let's be fair here. You got stupendously lucky when you were given Psychonaut. Random.org gave you as your recruit a Master who had been publicly cleared by two roleblocks. You won the recruitment lotto on that one. Had you gained a simple Padawan or a powerless Knight, this game would have taken a much different course.

Niklas

05-15-2010, 14:03

Well, let's be fair here. You got stupendously lucky when you were given Psychonaut. Random.org gave you as your recruit a Master who had been publicly cleared by two roleblocks. You won the recruitment lotto on that one. Had you gained a simple Padawan or a powerless Knight, this game would have taken a much different course.
There are always endless opportunities for might-have-beens to speculate about. Psychonaut was not who I would personally have chosen at that point, I would have thought him too much lynch-bait still, but I'm certainly not displeased with the result of it. I would like to think that we could have done well regardless of who we were dealt at that time though, assuming the recruit were willing to play with their new team, which Psychonaut did with the honor. But as I started out saying, that's speculation only. Here and now we have a concrete case where we can directly observe the bizarre outcome of a 50-50 roll.

Winston Hughes

05-15-2010, 14:06

Why are people complaining about the game setup before it's been fully revealed?

And why is anyone paying attention to Niklas at all?

You never read this. Move along...*

I'm going to bite my tongue here, and avoid giving any response to this, other than to suggest you never mention it again.

*Jedi Mind trick employed

Andres

05-15-2010, 14:06

Luck has always been an important factor in mafia games. A last minute vote switch, an unintended error in the tally, somebody missing the deadline, being lucky with protections/investigations/kills, etc. :shrug:

I for one had great fun with this game until halfway through, after which I got lost because I wasn't part of the behind the scenes action. I still enjoyed the write-ups and kept following from a distance with interest.

I think it's a bit unfair towards Sigurd to complain about the game mechanics while the game still hasn't ended and the game mechanics haven't been revealed and explained yet. I'm a bit disappointed about the lack of courtesy to the host shown in the last few pages.

As far as I'm concerned, even if it is a last man standing with infinite recruitment ability kinda game, it was still very enjoyable and I had great fun.

Maybe it's just me, but I've always been someone who's happy when the road is enjoyable, regardless of the destination being defeat or victory.

In this game, the road certainly was very enjoyable aka I had fun. In the end, that's all that matters to me :2thumbsup:

Askthepizzaguy

05-15-2010, 14:32

Luck has always been an important factor in mafia games. A last minute vote switch, an unintended error in the tally, somebody missing the deadline, being lucky with protections/investigations/kills, etc. :shrug:

I must hear about this one, master Andres.

I think it's a bit unfair towards Sigurd to complain about the game mechanics while the game still hasn't ended and the game mechanics haven't been revealed and explained yet. I'm a bit disappointed about the lack of courtesy to the host shown in the last few pages.

Yeah, I would want to reserve judgement until I see how it worked. If only the original Sith could recruit, that would be very balanced. And there may be other balancing mechanisms I don't know about. Plus I'm the last surviving Jedi and the two living Sith would rather kill each other, so..... yeah.

In this game, the road certainly was very enjoyable aka I had fun. In the end, that's all that matters to me :2thumbsup:

I saw how much effort Sigurd put into this game. It blows away what I had in mind for a large mafia Star Wars game, for sure. I'd never have been able to accomplish what Sigurd has done here. The writeups were phenomenal, the official "Star Wars Return of the Sith" images, the detailed role PMs, the twists and turns...

It's fair to say there's experimental elements to this game. If there are some imbalances but the game was still theoretically winnable, that's good enough.

Renata

05-15-2010, 14:57

vote: Subotan

I'll go with the only living townie, whatever my private opinions one way or the other. Peace to all.

Husar

05-15-2010, 15:25

Well, regardless of might-have-beens, you still failed to lynch Subotan before the very final rounds when we dropped all pretense. And you lynched me due to a stoopid mistake on my part. So even had the game been exactly what you thought it was, it would still have been a colossal town failure. No offense, of course. ~;)
Well, regardless of the should-have-beens, you still failed to keep your identities secret and placed a bet on everything working as you had it planned, and that behaviour is now biting you in the ***. ~;)
And yes, you're very bitter, have some chocolate.
And besides, it happens in Sigurd-games all the time, you are on the perfect road to victory and then it all collapses, I can tell you the story of the town-defeat in Midgard Saga sometime...

Understatement of the year, yousillykhaan.
Pouring salt into the wound, are you?
Maybe Niklas can give you some of that chocolate...

I think it's a bit unfair towards Sigurd to complain about the game mechanics while the game still hasn't ended and the game mechanics haven't been revealed and explained yet. I'm a bit disappointed about the lack of courtesy to the host shown in the last few pages.
Well, I'm a Sigurd-fanboy, but I complained about previous Sigurd games as well, in the end they're usually worth playing though and the fact that not everything plays out perfectly is the price you have to pay for playing some of the most innovative and interesting mafia games I've seen in this place.
So yeah, stop complaining about the game and wait for it to end first, then rip him apart. :whip:

Secura

05-15-2010, 15:56

The writeups were phenomenal, the official "Star Wars Return of the Sith" images, the detailed role PMs, the twists and turns...

I totally agree on this, the breadth of the story and how you meshed together so many different characters from different eras of Star Wars so effectively and without it seeming out of place... that was fantastic, Sigurd. :3

Yaropolk

05-15-2010, 16:24

Question for the sith then, did I get targetted for a night kill, or did random . org choose me for conversion, but since I was unconvertible, I died.

pevergreen

05-15-2010, 16:31

Question for the sith then, did I get targetted for a night kill, or did random . org choose me for conversion, but since I was unconvertible, I died.

Looks like it was a delib kill

Niklas

05-15-2010, 17:20

There have been no failed conversion attempts.

Askthepizzaguy

05-15-2010, 17:40

There have been no failed conversion attempts.

That's nifty, so the whole thing about pretending to try to convert Diana, etc.... was that all you or was that Sigurd?

Niklas

05-15-2010, 17:51

All writeups but one have been Sigurd's own, including any misdirection (except one thing). The only writeup I did was the death of Csargo, because I felt unusually inspired. And the one exception to the misdirection thing was that he asked me if I had any final words when I was to be lynched. I just had to use the perfect misdirection quote (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Nihl), which, as I remarked to Sigurd, was almost designed for this purpose.

:bow:

Sigurd

05-15-2010, 19:46

Let's do the game analysis after the game is finished...

Sigurd

05-15-2010, 21:00

Round 18

Night

The trio of survivors all scowled at each other. None trusted any of the other. Finally the silence broke and accusations were thrown everywhere. Even the ethereal beings were joining in. Votes were cast and at the end of it Streen had yet again majority. Darth Nihl stood looking at the floor with a hand stroking his temples. Maybe they had grown too cocky, maybe they should have been more restrictive in their taunting and maybe, just maybe they would have been able to sway the votes. But it was too late. Streen had the most votes and there was little one could do about it now.
The ethereal beings of former Jedi Masters and Grand Masters moved behind Nomi Sunrider who uttered. “Streen… or should I rather say Darth Krayt!! You have been found guilty to murders. What say you?”
The being formerly known as Streen, hissed and got up with a speed that made his movements blur. The ethereal beings had laid their hands on Nomi’s shoulders and were feeding her force power. Nomi erected a force barrier around herself. Darkness enveloped Darth Krayt as he gathered the dark force around him. Glowing amber eyes appeared in the darkness and a sinister voice spoke. “You… my apprentice, have betrayed me. Only death and dishonor awaits those that betray the Sith.” Blue energy shot from the hands of Darth Krayt and Kyp Durron fell to the floor in agony. Nomi Sunrider looked at the display for raw force punishing the writhing Kyp. She knew that if she didn’t intervene she would be next, but if she didn’t, then she would be rid of her next opponent. Nomi made a decision and drew upon the channeled force.

Darth Krayt cackled as he saw his apprentice about to perish. “Hahahahahah… Now feel the wrath of the dark side. DIE!!!!”
Darth Krayt, the Dark Lord of the Sith went sailing through the air and hit the wall with an immense force. Bones crushed in the impact and he fell to the floor unconscious.
The smoking Kyp Durron, looked up at Nomi and her outstretched hand with amber eyes of hatred. He had failed in taking an opportunity to overturn his master and seize the full power of the dark side. He had failed were this usurper of a woman; the so called Grand Master of the pitiful Jedi had succeeded. He utterly hated her for it, and his amber eyes betrayed him. The ethereal being of Darth Nihl seemed to enjoy the spectacle as he just stood there smirking.

Nomi Sunrider lifted the unconscious Darth Krayt with the force and walked out the door. The ethereal beings waited in the auditorium surrounding Kyp Durron.
Darth Krayt was finally thrown out of the hangar to space vacuum and within moments his body died.
In the auditorium a bright light appeared next to Darth Nihl’s ethereal being and Darth Krayt appeared. In the confusion Kyp managed to sneak away.
When Nomi Sunrider arrived back at the auditorium, there were only ethereal beings there. “Where is Kyp Durron?” she asked. The ethereal beings looked around and just shrugged.
Nomi knew what this meant. She had to find him and stop this once and forever.

Final night actions is needed no later than 22:00 GMT+1 Sunday 15th of May (24 hours from now)…

Tally:
Subotan: 6 (ATPG, atheotes, Chaotix, Diamondeye (Renata), pever, TinCow)
pevergreen: 2 (Niklas, Subotan)

Lynched:

a completely innocent name
TheFlax
Belisarius II
Yaseikhaan
Thermal Mercury
Greyblades
Niklas
White_eyes:D
autolycus
Centurion1
Psychonaut

Killed:

Beefy187
Husar
Captain Blackadder
Khazaar
Csargo
Ibn-Khaldun
Methos
Andres
Beskar
Winston Hughes
Chaotix
Sasaki Kojiro
Joooray
Kagemusha
Secura
atheotes
GeneralHankerchief
Diana Abnoba
Yaropolk
Renata
YLC
Choxorn
johnhughthom
splitpersonality
TinCow
Diamondeye
Subotan

Force Ghost:

Chaotix
atheotes
Niklas
TinCow
Diamondeye
Subotan

Alive:

Askthepizzaguy
pevergreen

Belisarius II

05-15-2010, 21:13

Dun, dun, duuunnn

Subotan

05-15-2010, 21:42

We could just end this phase here and now with PEVERGREEN's death, but whatever.

pevergreen

05-16-2010, 02:30

I don't hate Nomi. :laugh4:

I want to get with her.

Askthepizzaguy

05-16-2010, 04:23

https://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb225/askthepizzaguy/EPYC/575px-Young_Nomi-1-1.jpg

Who wouldn't? She even turns the heads of female Jedi. :eyebrows:

ULC

05-16-2010, 04:55

I still crown thee Darth Lulz, pever :P

naut

05-16-2010, 05:58

pever. I am greatly disappointed by you. You showed a lack of sportsmanship and a lack of class, it has left a sour taste in my mouth and an unnecessary negative spin to an otherwise fantastic game by Sigurd.

pevergreen

05-16-2010, 06:01

I still crown thee Darth Lulz, pever :P

:laugh4:

pever. I am greatly disappointed by you. You showed a lack of sportsmanship and a lack of class, it has left a sour taste in my mouth and an unecessary negative spin to an otherwise fantastic game by Sigurd.

I'm sorry you feel that way. Let Sigurd finish the game and then you sith can all hate on me, ok. :yes:

Choxorn

05-16-2010, 07:18

So in the end, town wins this game because of a random 50-50 dice role between whether to recruit pevergreen or ATPG. Way to go. I still think you should all join me in voting pevergreen today, even if that means less chances for town to win. Would it truly feel good to win this game only by standing on the shoulders of pevergreen's stupidity?

Wasn't he already the Grandmaster and thus immune to conversion?

And why is anyone paying attention to Niklas at all?

Cause the Sith can't gain anything from lying at this point.

Winston Hughes

05-16-2010, 10:46

Cause the Sith can't gain anything from lying at this point.

I never understand why people second guess the GM (or each other) like this when there's nothing to gain from it.

Yes, in most cases, things are as they appear to be. But sometimes that kind of metagaming comes back to bite you on the rear, and then you end up looking very, very silly.

It also kinda spoils the atmosphere of the game to have all this going on before the story is complete.

naut

05-16-2010, 11:00

Good luck ATPG. Keep your defences strong. I don't want to technically "win" this. No one deserves the victory here. :bow:

Askthepizzaguy

05-16-2010, 11:45

Good luck ATPG. Keep your defences strong. I don't want to technically "win" this. No one deserves the victory here. :bow:

*grumble* myself and many of the Jedi who worked very hard on this game do. Especially if the Sith believe they deserved to win even after blurting out who they were before the game was over. I think we're both deserving, frankly.

But thank you for the best wishes.

naut

05-16-2010, 12:06

*grumble* myself and many of the Jedi who worked very hard on this game do. Especially if the Sith believe they deserved to win even after blurting out who they were before the game was over. I think we're both deserving, frankly.

But thank you for the best wishes.
Yes. You worked hard. We all did. My prefered outcome would be a tie, which is impossible.

Askthepizzaguy

05-16-2010, 12:10

Yes. You worked hard. We all did. My prefered outcome would be a tie, which is impossible.

Well, there are escape pods, I'm sure... :beam:

pevergreen

05-16-2010, 12:13

'sensitive' apparently?

:laugh4:

Sasaki Kojiro

05-16-2010, 12:15

Betraying the people you've been working with doesn't go over well.

pevergreen

05-16-2010, 12:18

Betraying the people you've been working with doesn't go over well.

No, it doesnt seem to.

No one got this angry in the first Netherworld game though.

Maybe because in that I died.

naut

05-16-2010, 12:32

pever every action you are taking is diminishing my opinion of you. I would appreciate if you delete that comment pever, because the game is not yet over, and as such the quicktopic is still technically "sensitive".

No one got this angry in the first Netherworld game though.
That's because the comparison is hollow. In Netherworld TinCow was amazingly cunning, and strung the town along all game. However, in this you jumped ship and then acted selfishly and petulantly underhanded. TinCow played an excellent game in Netherworld and deserved his victory. And everyone else accepted their loss. However, in this you played a poor game, then jumped at opportunity and screwed over everyone, both town and mafia, who had played a hard fought game. Take your victory if you value it that much.

pevergreen

05-16-2010, 12:54

pever every action you are taking is diminishing my opinion of you. I would appreciate if you delete that comment pever, because the game is not yet over, and as such the quicktopic is still technically "sensitive".

That's because the comparison is hollow. In Netherworld TinCow was amazingly cunning, and strung the town along all game. However, in this you jumped ship and then acted selfishly and petulantly underhanded. TinCow played an excellent game in Netherworld and deserved his victory. And everyone else accepted their loss. However, in this you played a poor game, then jumped at opportunity and screwed over everyone, both town and mafia, who had played a hard fought game. Take your victory if you value it that much.

I made no mention of TinCow's game in my post, I was simply referring to myself in Netherworld.

Subotan

05-16-2010, 13:12

*grumble* myself and many of the Jedi who worked very hard on this game do. Especially if the Sith believe they deserved to win even after blurting out who they were before the game was over. I think we're both deserving, frankly.
Actually, that was deliberate. Psychonaut did not have Force Breath, whereas I did, so I attempted to make myself look as scummy as possible, so that I was lynched ahead of Psycho.

Askthepizzaguy

05-16-2010, 13:19

Actually, that was deliberate. Psychonaut did not have Force Breath, whereas I did, so I attempted to make myself look as scummy as possible, so that I was lynched ahead of Psycho.

I believe I mentioned during that round that that was what I suspected you were doing, and deliberately refrained from taking the bait.

On a separate note-
I have a personal request to all: Please leave this Sith dispute outside of the thread for now, it is not fun for anyone really.

naut

05-16-2010, 13:26

On a separate note-
I have a personal request to all: Please leave this dispute outside of the thread for now, it is not fun for anyone really.
:bow:

Subotan

05-16-2010, 13:56

I believe I mentioned during that round that that was what I suspected you were doing, and deliberately refrained from taking the bait.

In that case you are deserving :bow:

Diamondeye

05-16-2010, 17:43

*is back*
*and confused*

Oh well, ATPG, the best of luck in the showdown to come. I for one am rooting for a town victory no matter the complications that the game seems to have. I died as town and I'll face the end of the game as town.

Further commentary will not be given until the game has been resolved.

Sigurd

05-16-2010, 23:10

Round 18

Day

Kyp Durron was playing cat and mouse with Nomi Sunrider and hoped he was not the mouse.
He hurried along the dark hallways of the Star Destroyer interior trying to find an advantage point where he could make his stand. But no adequate places could be found. He did not want to depend solely on his own strength against Nomi as he didn’t really know how powerful she was. She had become the Grand Master of the Jedi, a position he had envisioned for himself. But then the call had come from the Sith holocron and it had promised more power than he could ever imagine. He had fallen so deeply to the dark side by betraying his master that he was now beyond redemption. His emotions were all over the place as he had barely been able to adjust to the all powerful sensation of the dark side of the force. Just thinking about Jedi got his heart raising and an utter hateful disdain filled his mind. He couldn’t lose to this Jedi. He had to win and take this ship with its secrets back to Coruscant where he would find a new apprentice and continue the returned order of the Sith.
As he scanned the hallway of possible hiding places, he felt the presence of the light side of the force as if it was approaching. Kyp backed into the shadows and concentrated on the light around him. He managed by the force to bend the little light there was around him and thus completely disappeared from anyone needing light reflection to see.

Around a corner came Nomi Sunrider nearly glowing with the force. Her beauty was nearly unbearable, but Kyp was beyond caring for such traitorous emotions. The only emotion stirring in him was that of hatred and wanting power.
She seemed to sense his presence but she couldn’t make out where he was. She had her lightsabre out and the blue light from it went back and forth to light up the dark parts of the hallway. Kyp erected an invisible protection barrier around him, just in case but Nomi didn’t notice and finally walked away.

Nomi Sunrider was calm as a true Master of the force. Her hot temper, loud mouth, aggressive and opinionated self was long gone. She had now a calmness in her being like unto the great Jedi Masters of the past. She had been tempted to run after Kyp and just strike him down with her lightsabre. But she stayed true to the Jedi code to only use her powers and skill for knowledge and defence, never for attack.
Yet she knew that if her life were at stake she would like Masters in the past channel her powers into one aggressive burst for the disarming of her opponent. She had envisioned how she would do this and had several plans. She had been tempted to envision results where she had killed her opponent, but had managed to let those thoughts subside. She had won over any temptations that would lead to the dark side and made a final plan; a plan involving the return of Kyp to the light side. She had to do anything in her power to turn that poor boy back to the Jedi he once was.
The new Jedi order which would emerge with her return and the knowledge of the force would be a great boost to the universe. The Jedi order would live on through mercy and wisdom and not through pointless destruction. And Kyp Durron would be her Padawan…
She was still in her deep thoughts when the alarm in her body woke her up. It was as if she had been burned, but the feeling was danger instead of pain. She looked around and saw him coming at her. Kyp was looking terrible, all cloaked up and with burning amber eyes. She quickly erected a protective barrier around herself and put herself in a defensive stance, blue lightsabre ready.
Kyp lifted a hand as he approached and Nomi felt as the world turned around her. She knew what was coming and knew what would stop it. She drew force to her and expelled it from her outstretched hand.
Kyp Durron couldn’t hold his concentration as the force hit him and he sailed down the hallway. He landed hard and hurt himself. However hatred raged in him and he overcame any discomfort he had and got up quickly. He drew all the dark force he could muster until he was nearly bursting with it. He leaped forward as if throwing something and the dark force were expelled from him in one large directional blast. Nomi’s force barrier nearly faltered as the torrent of dark force blew around her, destroying walls, floor and ceiling. She fell down to the floor below but was still in one piece. The dark cloaked Kyp jumped after her but Nomi was ready. A blinding flash crippled any vision Kyp might have had and he couldn’t get his bearings. Nomi took the opportunity as she was exhausted from withstanding the destructive force she had experienced moments before and escaped.

She needed to get back to the auditorium where she knew the ethereal beings of former Masters and Grand Masters were. She needed support and strength.

Voting ends when a majority is reached or when I have a moment or two tomorrow. It will be 17th of May our nation's birthday and I will probably be gone most of the daytime.
This voting round should not take long... Will the game end? ...

Lynched:

a completely innocent name
TheFlax
Belisarius II
Yaseikhaan
Thermal Mercury
Greyblades
Niklas
White_eyes:D
autolycus
Centurion1
Psychonaut

Killed:

Beefy187
Husar
Captain Blackadder
Khazaar
Csargo
Ibn-Khaldun
Methos
Andres
Beskar
Winston Hughes
Chaotix
Sasaki Kojiro
Joooray
Kagemusha
Secura
atheotes
GeneralHankerchief
Diana Abnoba
Yaropolk
Renata
YLC
Choxorn
johnhughthom
splitpersonality
TinCow
Diamondeye
Subotan

Force Ghost:

Chaotix
atheotes
Niklas
TinCow
Diamondeye
Subotan

Alive:

Askthepizzaguy
pevergreen

Secura

05-16-2010, 23:13

Wow.

That was a joy to read, genuinely... looking forward to the finale now! ^_^

Niklas

05-16-2010, 23:19

vote:pevergreen

Congratulations ATPG. :bow:

Subotan

05-16-2010, 23:32

Vote:PEVERGREEN

(http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvenEvilHasStandards)

Askthepizzaguy

05-16-2010, 23:38

Vote: pevergreen

Kyp.....

There is still good in you, I know this.... let go of your hatred.

Come back to us.

TinCow

05-17-2010, 00:45

Vote: pevergreen

Renata

05-17-2010, 01:30

Congratulations, Pizza.

pevergreen

05-17-2010, 02:20

Vote: pevergreen

Ummm...whys? (directed at sigurd for why is there another day phase)

Askthepizzaguy

05-17-2010, 02:27

Vote: pevergreen

Ummm...whys? (directed at sigurd for why is there another day phase)

Because I wussed out and didn't use an offensive ability. :wall:

Askthepizzaguy

05-17-2010, 02:33

Uhhh....

Could we have some more actual Jedi voting, PLEASE?

Chaotix

05-17-2010, 02:34

Probably because, as it has been shown, this is not a normal mafia game, and you are not powerful enough to defeat ATPG on your own (which is the usual reasoning for a mafia victory when there is only one left on each side).

So really, ATPG just has to survive your attacks while we lynch you to death.

Chaotix

05-17-2010, 02:34

Also, Vote: pevergreen.

Askthepizzaguy

05-17-2010, 02:35

while we lynch you to death.

Emphasis on this point when we have 3 Sith voting and 2 jedi voting.

Edit: Thanks. :sweatdrop: Now it's a whole 3 and 3, wowzers.

Choxorn

05-17-2010, 02:42

Even the Sith are voting for pever. Even PEVER is voting for pever!

pevergreen

05-17-2010, 03:01

Even the Sith are voting for pever. Even PEVER is voting for pever!

Sigurd did say majority. I know I'm going to be lynched, so why slow it down.

Yeah I guess you are right. But you wouldn't be able to find me ATPG, force cloak is powerful.

Askthepizzaguy

05-17-2010, 03:31

Sigurd did say majority. I know I'm going to be lynched, so why slow it down.

Yeah I guess you are right. But you wouldn't be able to find me ATPG, force cloak is powerful.

I shall defeat your force cloak with the awesome jedi skill I learned last night.

naut

05-17-2010, 04:50

I shall defeat your force cloak with the awesome jedi skill I learned last night.
There is one, maybe 2, that defeat force cloak.

Ghost Vote: pevergreen

Askthepizzaguy

05-17-2010, 04:57

There is one, maybe 2, that defeat force cloak.

Ghost Vote: pevergreen

Any hints, oh awesome and clearly worthy foe?

Diamondeye

05-17-2010, 07:45

Vote:pevergreen

No news are good news? Let's see if we can get rid of pever before Nomi has to stand another attack...

naut

05-17-2010, 09:08

Any hints, oh awesome and clearly worthy foe?
I don't know if the Jedi have the ability, my guess is they have an equivalent to the Sith's ability though.

Subotan

05-17-2010, 10:34

I have a fair idea what it might be.

Askthepizzaguy

05-17-2010, 11:30

Kyp.... Hear your thoughts, I can.

The conflict within you, I can feel. Your craving for power has not made you powerful. A servant of the Dark Side, it has made you. In chains, you are... and a slave to emotion you've become.

A Jedi's life is sacrifice. Voluntarily, they give themselves to the Light side. But once you go down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Good in you, I still feel. But imprisoned within hatred and desire, that side of you is. To turn you back from the Dark Side, I have failed. Wished a new beginning for you, I did... a new life, a new journey back toward the light side of the force. I have communed with the Force, and spoken with your friends. Disappointed were they, that you have turned away from the light. But the good in you, they see. We all see it, master Durron. But turn willingly away from the dark side, you cannot. Allow you to continue on this path of destruction, I cannot. In no one's best interest, would that serve. Clear to me, what I must do now. Release you from the chains of the dark side, I will.

Rejoin the Force, you must.

https://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb225/askthepizzaguy/EPYC/Nomi_Jedi.png

Niklas

05-17-2010, 11:45

ATPG, that post alone makes you a worthy winner.

Secura

05-17-2010, 12:17

When I read it, all I could hear in my head was Yoda. xD

Askthepizzaguy

05-17-2010, 12:20

When I read it, all I could hear in my head was Yoda. xD

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_meld

When powerful with the light side you are, the voices of many Jedi flow through you. :beam:

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20071202164327/starwars/images/thumb/c/c5/Forcemeld.JPG/250px-Forcemeld.JPG

Diamondeye

05-17-2010, 14:04

Nomi deserves this victory now. Well written, ATPG :beam:

Husar

05-17-2010, 15:17

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20071202164327/starwars/images/thumb/c/c5/Forcemeld.JPG/250px-Forcemeld.JPG

They're all wearing this (http://company.neurosky.com/products/ns-mindset-pro-worldwide/), aren't they?

Diana Abnoba

05-17-2010, 17:11

Nomi will be victorious, she is strong with the force, I can feel it.

Askthepizzaguy

05-17-2010, 17:12

Nomi will be victorious, she is strong with the force, I can feel it.

I do believe I am blushing now. :bounce:

Secura

05-17-2010, 17:13

They're all wearing this (http://company.neurosky.com/products/ns-mindset-pro-worldwide/), aren't they?

They're all playing Modern Warfare 2 as well.

atheotes

05-17-2010, 18:21

Vote:pevergreen :fingers crossed:

Husar

05-17-2010, 18:43

They're all playing Modern Warfare 2 as well.

You mean they're Sith? Only Sith would play that...

Sigurd

05-17-2010, 21:23

voting ended...

Sigurd

05-17-2010, 22:48

Round 19

Night

Kyp Durron burst through the auditorium doors; within waited Nomi Sunrider with former Masters and Grand Masters flanking her. She was ready for any stunt this former Jedi would pull, but not what happened next. Kyp Durron flung himself to his knees begging for forgiveness. He expressed great sorrow for what he had done, the people he had helped killing and for his want for power. He wanted forgiveness and restitution to the Jedi order and offered himself as a Padawan to be trained under the watchful eyes of Nomi Sunrider.
Nomi was intrigued. This was exactly what her wishes had been all along. She was about to step forward when she felt a tug at her shoulder. It was not the sensation of a hand, but it reminded her of it. She turned and saw the ethereal being of Qui-Gon Jinn shaking his head. He then stepped forward. “We do not believe you, Kyp… We will go ahead and take your fate to a vote.”

The voting was unanimous, even Kyp Durron voted himself to somehow strengthen his claim to reconciliation. When the votes had been cast and the tally counted, Nomi approached Kyp Durron. “I am sorry Kyp, but the voting powers have decided that you are to be thrown out into space. Even the former Sith agreed.”
Kyp sighed but agreed that this would be a fitting punishment for his crimes. He followed meekly Nomi Sunrider into the hangar bay and stepped voluntarily up to the space barrier.
He turned one last time and looked sadly at Nomi Sunrider before stepping into space vacuum. Kyp Durron floated into the dark space looking back at Nomi Sunrider who stood there with tears running down her cheeks. His sad and repenting face turned to an evil grin and amber eyes glowed back at the now astonished Nomi Sunrider. Kyp went up and out of sight. Nomi ran up to the barrier to see where Kyp went. She saw that he ripped a space hatchet open with the force and went inside. Nomi, knew that this would be an iteration of what had happened earlier. She had to catch this unrepentant monster and be done with it once and for all. The gloves had come off.

Night actions in by 22:00 GMT+1 18th of May (22:00 hours from now)

Tally:
pevergreen: 8 (ATPG, atheotes, Chaotix, Diamondeye, Niklas, pevergreen, Subotan, TinCow)

Lynched:

a completely innocent name
TheFlax
Belisarius II
Yaseikhaan
Thermal Mercury
Greyblades
Niklas
White_eyes:D
autolycus
Centurion1
Psychonaut

Killed:

Beefy187
Husar
Captain Blackadder
Khazaar
Csargo
Ibn-Khaldun
Methos
Andres
Beskar
Winston Hughes
Chaotix
Sasaki Kojiro
Joooray
Kagemusha
Secura
atheotes
GeneralHankerchief
Diana Abnoba
Yaropolk
Renata
YLC
Choxorn
johnhughthom
splitpersonality
TinCow
Diamondeye
Subotan

Force Ghost:

Chaotix
atheotes
Niklas
TinCow
Diamondeye
Subotan

Alive:

Askthepizzaguy
pevergreen

Choxorn

05-17-2010, 23:00

Of course, he had Force Breath.

pevergreen

05-17-2010, 23:20

Dude, I told everyone last round

Subotan

05-17-2010, 23:30

I knew that, I just wanted to make a point.

Husar

05-18-2010, 00:42

Does anybody else think that there will be failed night attacks and pever regaining force breath during the night ad infinitum now? :laugh4:

Askthepizzaguy

05-18-2010, 01:03

Does anybody else think that there will be failed night attacks and pever regaining force breath during the night ad infinitum now? :laugh4:

That won't happen. I happen to know for a fact that pevergreen gains no additional abilities tonight.

This is the FINAL showdown.

Chaotix

05-18-2010, 01:34

That won't happen. I happen to know for a fact that pevergreen gains no additional abilities tonight.

This is the FINAL showdown.

Well, then, I guess it's all up to you to win it for us.

No pressure.

Centurion1

05-18-2010, 02:07

YEAH!!!!!!!!!

Pever you can join my annoyingly hard to lynch group!

pevergreen

05-18-2010, 03:41

:laugh4:

Pizza what did you think?

Since I got no reply, I presume you didn't like.

Askthepizzaguy

05-18-2010, 04:21

ooc- nah, that's not very in character. :wink:

But I'd be more than happy to speak to you in character.

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Master Durron-

Somewhere inside of this new Dark Lord, I still sense you... and another lesson from the Jedi holocron, I have to teach you.

To release you from this prison, and allow you to rejoin your friends, your assistance I require. Help me in defeating this master of the dark side, you can. Like a flame, burning brightly, is the light side of the force; illuminate our path forward, it will. Help me to penetrate this shadow cloak, you must. Stretch out with your feelings... it matters not what feelings they are. Be they anger, or lust, or hate, or pain... immerse yourself in these feelings. Enhance them.... radiate out with these emotions, and betray the location of the Sith Lord, and aid me in the struggle against this dark warrior, you will.

But the fear of loss, you should not feel, as I do not. Death is a natural part of life. The flame of the light side can never be extinguished. It is essential to the Force.... and without it, life could not exist. Even the very nature of the Dark Side betrays a path to the Light Side. Whenever there is anger, there is always a chance for calmness instead. Wherever there is hatred, there is always a path to forgiveness. Intertwined, the light and the darkness are. While quick and easy is the impatient path to the Dark Side, always stronger will be the patient path. Even the Dark Lords of the Sith understand the value of patience, or destroy themselves in their haste, they do. In order to overcome the light side of the force, knowledge of it must remain. So weak is the dark side, that it must use the light to prevail against it.

On the surface, the universe that surrounds us, both within and outside of the ship, seems to be a field of coldness, emptiness and darkness, with only rare instances of light and warmth. An illusion, this is: in reality, that light and warmth radiates out, spreading in all directions, its influence reaching almost everywhere. It is instead the darkness which is rare, and light which is the dominant presence. Even in total darkness, there is still radiance. Fear of the dark places is not needed. So too should we not fear the dark side, nor should we fear death. Even when death comes, we simply return to the light.

Once defeated this Dark Lord of the Sith is, darkness will consume him; and return to the light once more, Jedi Master Durron will.

pevergreen

05-18-2010, 07:16

Destiny has cheated me,
by forcing me to decide upon,
the woman that I idolise,
or the powers of a sith lord.
Without these powers,
I can't complete,
the killing that was captivating her,
but if I keep them,
and she murders me,
then she probably won't,
want me dating her...

Askthepizzaguy

05-18-2010, 07:21

I promise I'll pay more attention to you once you're dead. :wink:

ULC

05-18-2010, 07:39

I promise I'll pay more attention to you once you're dead. :wink:

Oh, the odd implications...also, Githany was much sexier.

pevergreen

05-18-2010, 07:42

Man, its such a good song though. My version fits...just.

Diana Abnoba

05-18-2010, 10:48

You guys are having just too much fun with this, I see. :laugh4: (very entertaining). :yes:

Choxorn

05-18-2010, 23:40

I'm sure we can all agree that Mara Jade was sexier than all of you fugly people combined. :sweetheart:

Beskar

05-19-2010, 00:09

You should have just drove off in the ship as soon as pevergreen went outside the door and left him behind.

Sigurd

05-19-2010, 01:35

Round 19

Day

Nomi Sunrider searched the hallways for Kyp Durron, but couldn’t find him. The snake had escaped and probably was hiding in some advantage point where he would assault her should she come by.
She was nearing one of the destroyed parts of the crew quarters and saw how the force could be utilized in the wrong hands. She knew that she had to get rid of Kyp Durron. He was not savable, the dark side had utterly corrupted him. The destructive element that was a Dark Lord of the Sith had to be eliminated to ensure the peace and safety of the galaxy. She recognized this area from the tales in the auditorium. This was where Count Dooku was killed by being ejected out into cold space.
Nomi felt sorry for the guy. So much distrust in a Master of his trade. Had he been alive today he would probably be one of, if not the strongest Jedi around.
She could see where Dooku had been ejected out into space. The hole was still there and the automatic hull breach system was keeping the air inside.
She moved past the breach and towards the part of the hallway which were not damaged. She suddenly felt a danger looming. Nomi quickly erected a force field around her for protection and walked more carefully. She couldn’t see Kyp, but sensed his immediate proximity.
Suddenly she felt the world spinning and her knees faltering. Nomi knew that she was under attack and that she would lose if she didn’t act fast. But she didn’t know where the attack came from and could therefore not react accordingly. She felt as if her life force was being dragged away from her and she was getting desperate. She leashed out with what she got; a blinding flash erupted from her hand, illuminating everything in the hallway as if noon day had entered. Her assailant apparently lost all concentration because he was suddenly there in the middle of the hallway rubbing his eyes.
Nomi saw her chance and took it. Blue energy cascaded from her hands and danced on Kyp’s body. Kyp went down like a sack, body writhing. Nomi stood over him drawing energy from the air around her and expelling it from her hands. Kyp turned with begging teary eyes. Nomi hesitated a brief moment and that was all Kyp needed. He jumped up and quickly erected a force barrier around him before Nomi realized her mistake and pushed the energy with more vigor. But this time it had no effect. The blue lightening danced on his protective barrier and did more damage to the immediate surrounding than on Kyp himself.
Kyp just stood there snarling at her with amber eyes full of hatred.

Nomi was soon dry of the force and had to let the lightening torrent subside. She drew her lightsabre and ignited it. The familiar blue hue lit the hallway up. Kyp drew his own blade and a crimson hue mixed with the blue.
Kyp began his attack and Nomi defended herself like only a Grand Master could. The plasma blades rang in the hallway and bursts of light struck the walls, floor and ceiling as plasma against plasma met. This was obviously an even match. The Dark Lord of the Sith against the Grand Master of the Jedi, the supposedly two most powerful beings in the galaxy. Kyp got in a lucky swing and graced the arm of Nomi who howled from the burning scar that appeared.
She drew a little force and expelled it in Kyp’s direction. He slammed into the wall with great force and hits the floor like a sack of wheat.
Nomi clutched her burned arm but held on to the burning lightsaber. Kyp only momentarily stunned gets up and advances on Nomi.
Nomi is ready; she has already planned what to do next.
Kyp attacks and swings his blade wide. Nomi strikes the floor with her lightsaber and sparks are exploding from it and momentarily blinds Kyp.
She uses force speed and makes a run for it towards where Dooku used to live. Kyp sees her escape and follows suit.

Nomi Sunrider is standing in the middle of the hallway waiting for the approaching Kyp Durron. As he nears he leaps up ready to strike her down. But Nomi is ready. She flings her lightsaber at the emergency structural containment field control panel, the same which controls the seal of the hull breach. As it strikes, the containment field simply vanishes and the hallway and all that are in it are suddenly subject to cold space and its vacuum. The air and debris are violently sucked out through the breach hole. Kyp Durron are sucked trough.
Kyp Durron not able to keep his vitals alive in space vacuum any longer, suffocates in the hazardous cold environment and he soon dies. Nomi Sunrider which is able to keep her life vitals alive in this harsh environment are able to hold on until the pressure is equalized. There is no air in this section and she is able to move to a nearby turbo lift and take it to the bridge.
As she enters the bridge she finds a control panel and restores the containment field in the section she just left and fills the depressurized parts of the ship with pressurized air.

She looks out if the large windows and sees the speck of Kyp drifting towards the closest star.
She slumps down on the floor and starts meditating. She is soon filled with the force and is revitalized.

She was now alone. The ethereal beings had gone and she had a mission to complete.
Nomi stood up and placed herself dead center in the command center and reached out.
She sensed the power grid on the ship and traveled along it mentally with the force. She found all the weak spots and repaired them with the force.
She sought the power plant and switched it to full capacity. The power surged and went out to all parts of the ship. Lights were turned on and the ship saw its former glory.
Nomi stretched out again and took control of all flight controls. She primes the engines and ignites them.

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/StarDestroyer_engines.png

The ship picks up speed and coordinates are soon plotted in. It is time to return to Coruscant and hand over this cursed ship. Many Jedi lives were lost on it. 40 people boarded it and only one survived. Nomi Sunrider would return to Coruscant and rebuild the Jedi order. She would update the rather lacking records about the force, its uses and abilities. She would also make a long piece about the Sith, how their powers work and how to defeat them. The incident on this Star Destroyer would not happen again…

Somewhere hidden on the ship a red triangular Holocron pulsated, sending out inviting calls.

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/Sith_Holocron.png

The End

Congratulations
to
Askthepizzaguy
and
the Jedi team
for winning
StarWars Mafia: Return of the Sith.

Askthepizzaguy is awarded the Gold medal for being the last man standing

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/SithLogoGold.png

The Jedi team is awarded the Silver medal for winning the game

ACIN
Andres
atheotes
autolycus
Beefy187
Belisarius II
Beskar
Captain Blackadder
Centurion1
Chaotix
Choxorn
Csargo
Diamondeye
Diana Abnoba
GeneralHankerchief
Greyblades
Husar
Ibn-Khaldun
johnhughthom
Joooray
Kagemusha
Khazaar
Methos
Renata
Sasaki Kojiro
Secura
Splitpersonality
TheFlax
Thermal Mercury
TinCow
White_eyes:D
Winston Hughes
Yaropolk
Yaseikhaan
YLC

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/SithLogoSilver.png

and the Sith is awarded the Bronze for a well played, yet unfortunate game

Niklas
pevergreen
Psychonaut
Subotan

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/SithLogoBronze.png

Renata

05-19-2010, 01:41

Well done Pizza, on many levels. :bow:

And to the Sith, the same. :bow:

Splitpersonality

05-19-2010, 01:51

pevergreen:

You took a big gamble, much like a sith, and it didn't pay off, much like a sith :laugh4:. Many, many props for having the courage to do it. You lost it for your team, but you did the impossible...

You revived my interest in the game after I died :P

Good game sith.

ATPG:

I love you, you make me feel all warm and happy inside. I've been with you since your diamond junk, and now I am proud to crown your new pair of tungsten infused cojones. Congrats on an awesome finish to the game.

Good game people, sorry for being a less than stellar townie at times :bow:

Thanks for hosting Sigurd, perhaps I'll make the next game's signups on time! :D

Askthepizzaguy

05-19-2010, 01:52

That little trick with the lightsaber and the emergency structural integrity force field was my idea.... I got the idea when pevergreen blew a massive hole in the ship which was only covered up by the nearly-instantaneous emergency field. I figured if that thing were to shut off during battle, Kyp would die almost instantly.

I didn't figure the lightning would be able to defeat him, as I figured he'd use both cloak and either protect or force absorb, but I wanted there to be a battle this time, not a retreat.

Thanks everyone....

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/SithLogoGold.png

This medal belongs to the entire Jedi team. Thank you so much for helping me, especially in those last few rounds where I really needed your advice. Thanks especially: Renata, YLC, (big time, you two.... nicely done on Psychonaut) Chaotix, Tincow (Big big thanks you guys) Diamondeye, atheotes, Diana, and everyone else who gave it a solid effort. If I forgot to include your name, it is because I am overwhelmed.

I just hope that was the real ending.

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THANK YOU SIGURD!!!!

pevergreen

05-19-2010, 02:10

pevergreen:

You took a big gamble, much like a sith, and it didn't pay off, much like a sith :laugh4:. Many, many props for having the courage to do it. You lost it for your team, but you did the impossible...

:bow:

That little trick with the lightsaber and the emergency structural integrity force field was my idea.... I got the idea when pevergreen blew a massive hole in the ship which was only covered up by the nearly-instantaneous emergency field. I figured if that thing were to shut off during battle, Kyp would die almost instantly.

I didn't figure the lightning would be able to defeat him, as I figured he'd use both cloak and either protect or force absorb, but I wanted there to be a battle this time, not a retreat.

Well, I don't know how much it would have affected your thinking, but the dead sith giving you the link to the sith quicktopic and thus you having a full view of my force powers certainly did not help.

Askthepizzaguy

05-19-2010, 02:26

For everyone's reading pleasure, here are my final two orders I sent in. Last nights and the night before that.

Sent to Sigurd- I understand there is some relevance, which power I use first.

So, I would like to use Morichro first, to counter pevergreen's Morichro if he has it. IMO they should cancel each other out, and the only way he can avoid it is if he uses Force Cloak plus Morichro, which doesn't help him offensively...

Then, turn Force Protect up to full power, to counter pevergreen's Force lightning or Force destruction, keeping my lightsaber at the ready.

Those are my active powers.

For my passive defenses, I would like to lead with Force Push, simply because it seems to be highly effective so far, and if he tries to lead with some other power, it may push him off balance and give me the next move. Force Push should also knock him off balance even when invisible... being invisible doesn't mean the force can't toss you around.

Then, use Force Blinding, because he knows I have force speed and may be attempting to beat that. If he has Force Cloak, blinding might be able to illuminate the hallway so much that I can make out his outline and see where he is, which should allow me to use my lightsaber and finish him off. You also have to figure that with Force Blinding I might gain additional advantages of stopping his abilities and blinding him enough to zip in close and knock his saber out of his hand.

If I could offer some input on the story: (please do read! :beam:)

Should I be victorious, I was thinking also that, as a Jedi Grandmaster, I have finally become calm and at peace.... my days of being a hot tempered, loud mouthed, aggressive and opinionated Nomi Sunrider are over. Now I have a Mace Windu or Yoda level of calmness in my being. My goal here is to use the force exactly as the Jedi have taught me to.... for knowledge and defense, never for attack.

That being said, like Mace Windu, I am able to channel my power into one aggressive burst, for the purposes of disarming my opponent. After deflecting pevergreen's attack, my goal is to sever the hand which holds his crimson blade, and use the force to bring his blade into my grip. This results in a scene where I have both the red and blue blades in my hand, surrounding either side of Kyp Durron's neck, kind of like Dooku in Episode III.

But as Kyp Durron scowls at me and spits, ready for his death, I now realize that to defeat Kyp Durron in this fashion is to become like the Sith, myself.

So, instead of severing Kyp Durron's head, I use my blue lightsaber to cut Kyp's red lightsaber in half, rendering it useless. Then, I use Morichro on Kyp Durron and knock him out.

When he wakes up, he will find that I have used Drain Knowledge to remove all knowledge of the Sith from his body. He will be a jedi initiate once again, and live on, as a Jedi. In so doing, pevergreen's alignment reverts back to being a Jedi and wins the game with me, and becomes my new padawan learner.

And the Jedi order will live on.... though mercy and wisdom, not through pointless destruction.

At least, that is how Nomi Sunrider would play it, now that she has been tempted by the Dark Side and rejected it.

NEXT NIGHT:

Grand Master -> Askthepizzaguy (Force Protection), pevergreen (Force Lightning + Lightsabre)
(In this order)

Should I be attacked the defence will be:
1st attack: Force Protection + Force Blinding, 2nd attack: Force Protection + Force Push.

Lightsabre is always active as a defence should you be attacked with such since you have a rank above Padawan.

--------------------------

How I picture this battle going:

pevergreen uses Force Cloak (or Force Protect) as his first active power, anticipating either Morichro or Force Lightning.
Likely: Force Cloak.

I sense his presence and use Force Protect.

pevergreen uses either Force Choke or Force Drain to counter my Force Protection. (I expect they will pass straight through...)

I use Force Blinding to stun him and illuminate the hallway, and his Force Cloak is unable to compensate for the flash. I see him.

pevergreen uses Force Destruction to finish me, and my Force Protection is still active, deflects it (just barely). The ship is torn apart beneath my feet and the entire section of the ship behind me, and I fall to the level below. He jumps down to follow me, lightsaber ignited.

I use Force Push to slam him into the wall. He is momentarily stunned, and his cloak is dropped.

I use Force Lightning while his defenses are down.

He uses Force Absorb, as Force Grip doesn't really work against lightning.

pevergreen is just barely able to withstand the torrent of force lightning, and advances on me with his crimson lightsabre.

I strike the bulkhead below our feet, showering his face with sparks. Then while he is blinded, I use a force-assist to leap to the upper level, back through where pevergreen ripped a hole in the ship.

pevergreen leaps up to meet me in battle, but I throw my lightsaber and it strikes the emergency structural containment field control panel, releasing the force field which keeps the atmosphere inside the ship.

pevergreen, no longer capable of using Force Breath, is blown out of the gaping hole he tore in the ship with Force Destruction (either from this battle or a previous battle). Both pevergreen himself and my own lightsaber are blown into the vacuum of space, the momentum of this event too great for pevergreen to turn back. His body is frozen and heading straight toward the nearest star.

I use Force Breath and grip the nearest bulkhead, and pull myself to the turbolift, and move to the command level of the ship, where I restore the atmosphere and the integrity field. Then, it is time to meditate.... and return to Coruscant, where I will begin to rebuild the Jedi Order. I will capture the Sith holocron and move it to the Jedi Archives, where I will learn how to remove and categorize all of the Dark Side powers safely, and devise light-side defenses for them, so this slaughter of the Jedi never happens again.

And my role PM again:

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/NomiSunrider.png

"This Jedi will play an important part in the battles to come. Truly, she will be strong—a luminous being is she."
―Ood Bnar, commenting on Nomi Sunrider
Trivia about this character in the StarWars universe:
Nomi Sunrider was a Human female who served as a Jedi Knight in the days of the Galactic Republic. As a young woman she married Andur Sunrider, who was training to become a Jedi Knight, and eventually Nomi gave birth to a baby girl, whom they named Vima. During a trip to the Stenness system, Andur was ambushed by gang members of Bogga the Hutt, who were after the Adegan crystals carried by Nomi and her husband. The ensuing fight witnessed the murder of Andur, and Nomi's decision to begin down the path to become a Jedi Knight. Nomi eventually completed her training under the Jedi Master Thon, and was placed in charge of the Jedi relief mission sent to Onderon to aid Ulic Qel-Droma in the Freedon Nadd Uprising. Along with several other Jedi, Nomi helped Ulic bring about the end of the Naddist Revolt, essentially putting an end to the reign of the Sith on Onderon. Following those events, Nomi was one of many Jedi to participate in the Great Sith War against the rise of Exar Kun and his apprentice, the fallen Jedi Ulic Qel-Droma. During the war, Nomi witnessed Ulic slay his own brother Cay and, guided by her intense emotions, used her powers to permanently sever Ulic from The Force. With Nomi's defeat of Ulic, the Sith War was soon brought to an end.
Following the devastation of the Great Sith War, Nomi steadily climbed the ranks of the Jedi and was eventually made Head of the Jedi Order around the time of the Conclave of Exis Station, a conclave which Nomi had assembled so the Jedi could discuss the rebuilding of the Order following the end of the war. Years after her death, her legacy was preserved in the histories of the Jedi and her stories were retold down through the centuries.

Jedi Knight

You are a Jedi Knight
Your commission is to follow the appointed leader of this expedition to recover what seems to be an ancient Imperial Star Destroyer. It is also your commission to do assist in an initial search of the ship and attempt to power it up and move it back to Coruscant for further examination.

You have proven yourself as a true warrior and scholar and deserve the honorific title of Jedi Knight. You spend all waking hours to either training with your lightsaber or work with science. You are a true explorer of the unknown and it is why you are handpicked for this expedition.

As with all Jedi from Knights and upward you have a lightsaber as your main weapon.
You are a formidable warrior and have proven yourself many times in duels, fighting marauders and apprehending other riff raff who do not follow the law of the Republic.

Item:
https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/lightsaberblue2.png

Good Luck!!!

Ending role PM:

Nomi Sunrider - Grand Master of the Jedi

The Holocron calls out to you and you retrace your steps from previous visits.
As you place your hands on it, a resonance vibrates in your very being. Strong emotions flow over you and you hear instructions.

It gives you knowledge about what it calls the force. Before it finishes, you have learned new abilities.

Using the force you can keep your life functions active in harsh environments such as vacuum space or poisonous places. (One Lynch immunity)
Draw a small portion of the force to you and release it as a push. (Force Push) – defensive ability
Alter the force to enhance your muscles and improve your mobility (Force Speed) – defensive ability.
Draw a small portion of the force and release it as a flashbang (Force Blinding) – defensive ability
Use the force to gather a thick layer of a protective force field around you, leaving you nearly unassailable by energy weapons and force powers thrown at you. (Force protection)
Alter the force to hide your force affiliation. (Force Stealth)
By the force you can restore health and tissue to near dead players (Force Healing) - Doctor ability
Draw electrons from the air and dispel them from you hands as lightning (Force Lightening) - vig kill ability.
Enter the mind of a person and learn his/her secrets. This will remove these secrets from the mind of this person and it will become yours (Drain knowledge) interrogation.
By altering the force you can put someone is a stasis like condition. Their life functions will decrease and they would seem dead to any non-force wielder. This is but a temporary condition and they will regain consciousness within 24 hours (Monrichro) - Blocking ability.

You can do two night actions – However you can’t kill twice if you have such abilities.
You can do two abilities against players pr. night action.

Night Actions:

Protect yourself from most attacks by creating a force barrier around your self.
Hide your force powers from investigators. They will not be able to discern your dispositions to the dark side should you have such.
You can choose one player each night and follow them around. Should they be attacked you can step in and heal them back to health, thus saving them.
Use your force lightning in addition to you lightsabre to attack another player (vigilante), but be careful, using that power will lead you to become susceptible to the dark side.
Target one player for interrogation - you will be able to discern their thoughts and secrets. If they have force abilities, you can remove one and make it your own.
Block a player using Morichro – blocking ability

Other actions:
You are able to survive one lynch.

Force powers:

Breath Control (Padawan ability)
https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/forcereathcontrol.png
Force Push (Padawan ability)
https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/Forcepush.png
Force Speed (Padawan ability)
https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/Forcespeed.png
Force Blinding (Jedi Knight ability)
https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/Force_Blinding.png
Force Protect (Jedi Knight ability)
https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/Force_Protection.png
Force Stealth (Jedi Knight ability)
https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/Force_Stealth.png
Force Healing (Jedi Master ability)
https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/ForceHealing.png
Force Lightning (Jedi Master ability)
https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/forcelightning.png
Drain knowledge - Interrogation (Grand master ability)
https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/forceDrainknowledge.png
Morichro (Grand Master ability)
https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/ForceMorichro.png

Item:

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/lightsaberblue2.png

Choxorn

05-19-2010, 02:29

The end Sith deserve the slightly-better than Silver metal just for doing so much to ensure our victory when pever betrayed them. Awesome, guys.

I never really did much in this game, having joined late and never been involved much with anything. I wish I could have done more, it was an awesome game.

Chaotix

05-19-2010, 02:48

*Gratuitous Applause*

Gotta say, it got really close there towards the end. Have to hand it to the Sith for a game well played. Especially Psychonaut completely played me for a fool.

pevergreen

05-19-2010, 02:52

:laugh4: Too right Choxorn.

I played this game as a neutral party. I started off as a Jedi Padawan, but after reading Kyp's history and this quote in my role pm:

"No change comes without conflict. Perhaps my destiny is to be the irritant that forces the discussion, the blister that lets you know your boots don't fit."
―Kyp Durron

I took the approach of simply wanting one side to come victorious, the fighting between jedi and sith could not last, one side had to become victorious. I didn't care who died or not, i simply wanted the balance of power even until I gained some abilties. I got nothing until recruited into the sith.

As I see it, Kyp would have wanted to be at the head of the victorious side, so on what I thought would be the last night, I attacked Subo as he attacked ATPG. I hoped he would kill ATPG and be weak enough for me to kill him. I had been in discussion with ATPG for a while and he knew I had gotten force lightning. I think I had him convinced that I was a neutral role.

Starting role PM:

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/KypDurron.png

"No change comes without conflict. Perhaps my destiny is to be the irritant that forces the discussion, the blister that lets you know your boots don't fit."
―Kyp Durron

Trivia about this character in the StarWars universe:
Kyp Durron was a Jedi Master, and a hero of the New Republic. For years Kyp served in the spice mine of Kessel, the son of political prisoners. In 11 ABY, he escaped with the help of Han Solo and Chewbacca. Kyp became one of the first Jedi to enter Luke Skywalker's Jedi Praxeum.
Kyp soon rose to become Skywalker's best student, but, impatient and hungry for more knowledge, he fell under the influence of the Dark Lord Exar Kun. Now under the spell of the dark side of the Force, Durron took the Sun Crusher to Carida, destroying the Imperial-allied planet. However, his rampage ended shortly after when Exar Kun was defeated by the other students at the Jedi Praxeum.
Durron eventually became a powerful Jedi Master, although his views came into conflict with Skywalker's during the Yuuzhan Vong War. Durron believed the Jedi should not hesitate to use the Force as a weapon with which they would crush the Vong. Towards the end of the war, Kyp Durron was seated on the High Council of the New Jedi Order. During the Swarm War, he once again led a faction of the Order, which preached that the Jedi were not tools of the Galactic Alliance.

Padawan

You are a Padawan, and among the best of Padawans in the Jedi order.
You have been chosen specially to come on this expedition to recover what seems to be an ancient Imperial Star Destroyer. You are here to learn from the Knights who tutor you in scientific methodology and scholarship. They also tutor you in fighting with a lightsaber.
You don’t have a lightsaber of your own as that is only allowed for Knights and the ranks above.

Further instructions will be presented to you in due time.

Good Luck!!!

Promotion to Sith Lord:

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/dxKypDurronxd.png

"No change comes without conflict. Perhaps my destiny is to be the irritant that forces the discussion, the blister that lets you know your boots don't fit."
―Kyp Durron

Trivia about this character in the StarWars universe:
Kyp Durron was a Jedi Master, and a hero of the New Republic. For years Kyp served in the spice mine of Kessel, the son of political prisoners. In 11 ABY, he escaped with the help of Han Solo and Chewbacca. Kyp became one of the first Jedi to enter Luke Skywalker's Jedi Praxeum.
Kyp soon rose to become Skywalker's best student, but, impatient and hungry for more knowledge, he fell under the influence of the Dark Lord Exar Kun. Now under the spell of the dark side of the Force, Durron took the Sun Crusher to Carida, destroying the Imperial-allied planet. However, his rampage ended shortly after when Exar Kun was defeated by the other students at the Jedi Praxeum.
Durron eventually became a powerful Jedi Master, although his views came into conflict with Skywalker's during the Yuuzhan Vong War. Durron believed the Jedi should not hesitate to use the Force as a weapon with which they would crush the Vong. Towards the end of the war, Kyp Durron was seated on the High Council of the New Jedi Order. During the Swarm War, he once again led a faction of the Order, which preached that the Jedi were not tools of the Galactic Alliance.

Sith Lord

You are a Sith Lord.
Unlike your Jedi counterparts, you have a clear understanding of what is going on in the Star Destroyer.

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/Sith_Holocron.png

You entered the ship as a member of the Jedi order, but during the search of the Star Destroyer you came across a Sith Holocron which you by accident activated. The things you learned was mind blowing and you realized that a balance between the good and evil is necessary for progression and happiness.
The holocron gave esoteric truths about how not knowing evil and sorrow; you can’t appreciate good and happiness. Without both there would be limbo – a non existence.
This is why the Jedi religion died, because the Dark side was extinguished and the balance broken. As you embrace the teachings of this ancient Holocron, you feel a presence around you. The Holocron tells you it is the force and that by harnessing it you will gain great power. As you embrace it, after instructions from the Holocron, you are filled with a great rage and hatred for your weak and former Jedi friends. You need to remain hidden and you need to survive. The Sith needs to survive to restore the balance of the universe.
This means, the Jedi on this ship must die.

The Holocron is teaching the ancient Sith philosophy called: Rule of Two, which states: Two there should be; no more, no less. One to embody power, the other to crave it.
And it tells you there is another like you and that it has made him the Master. He has become the Dark Lord of the Sith and you are his apprentice a Sith Lord.

Your Master is Subotan – formerly called Streen and now is known as Darth Kryat.

The Holocron teaches you two more skills before it lets you go.
It teaches you how to make a synthetic lightsaber crystal. It becomes red in color.
It also teaches you how to make the force bend to your will and you already sense that you can by this force, remove the air from objects, creating a vacuum where there before was abundant of air.

The avatar it produces as it lets you go is what you will look like in the future. Right now you still look like you did when walking off that boarding ship and you can walk among the others un-noticed. However – you will grow in the force as you stay on this ship – and people will eventually notice. Hopefully you will figure out a way to hide your powers from prying eyes and force sensitive Jedi. When they eventually learn to heed to their senses and are able to discern between the light side and the dark side of the force, they will not realize that all have both sides in them. Being susceptible to the dark side does not mean they are Sith. They might realize this eventually, but it could be too late for them as they will hunt their own.

Needless to say as you and your Master has unlocked the force and learned to harness the dark side, the limbo is broken. Those of the Jedi who has been denied the force previously, but have entertained it in Mastery reflections and meditation, but not able to reach out to it are beginning to address it. It will not take too long before they too will learn to harness its power.

Victory condition:
Survive with your Master by killing all Jedi on the ship.

Night actions:
You and your Master can attack two Jedi using your lightsabers or your force powers. They do not know how to defend themselves with the force and very few have a lightsaber. But… there are a few which does have a lightsaber and your skills are not that good yet. Be careful of who you attack. There is one person who you can’t best. It is the Jedi Grand Master. He is unbeatable with the lightsaber. Only a Dark Lord of the Sith with several force powers can go up against him and hope for victory.
Your former abilities as a Jedi Master are still available to you, but are supplements.

You can do two abilities with each night action.
You can do two night actions every night.

Further information about force powers and what beats what will be known to you in due time. This will simulate you growing to power. You do not know all yet, but you are now the informed minority. The Jedi will also learn, but with little help from the host.

Use this quick topic to correlate with each other and with the host. I will be taking orders exclusively through it.

http://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/GaLu2FpeS6LAk

Good Luck!!!!

Force powers:

Breath Control (Padawan ability)
https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/forcereathcontrol.png
Force Blinding (Knight ability)
https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/Force_Blinding.png
Force Stealth (Jedi Knight ability)
https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/Force_Stealth.png
Force Choke (Sith ability)
https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/hxforce_chokexh.png

Items:

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/hxlightsaber-redxh.png

Promotion to Dark Lord of the Sith:

With the demise of Subotan you are now the Dark Lord of the Sith.

The holocron will stay silent for the remainder of the game as there is perfect balance with one Grand Master of the Jedi and one Dark Lord of the Sith.

Make your final attack ... if you feel uncomfortable giving your orders in the QT you can send them via PM.

Sigurd

Sasaki Kojiro

05-19-2010, 03:22

Any idea what Sasaki is on about? Evidence? Doesn't seem to be picking up though. Was there something in the writeup that was subsequently edited out? Sigurd?

:tongue3:

seireikhaan

05-19-2010, 04:54

Congrats, Pizza. I don't know what more to say at this point, but a job well done. :bow:

And, of course, Sigurd deserves commendation. From my perspective, those playing enjoyed the game greatly. Player satisfaction is always goal number one, and I'd say that was achieved without qualification.

Askthepizzaguy

05-19-2010, 06:34

Analysis case
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2483089&viewfull=1#post2483089
Leads to panic and a strange post composed in a whole other format (very flinchy)
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2483169&viewfull=1#post2483169
Mafia ESP:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2483185&viewfull=1#post2483185
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-In-Play&p=2483196&viewfull=1#post2483196

New mafia terminology:

"We we we" all the way home- Certain people, when mafia, use the word "we" more often than normal, and frequently this is because they are subconsciously trying too hard to identify themselves with the group. Subotan admitted he was actually trying to do this, consciously in fact. This was a pretty bad case of it. When it is in half of your posts, or half of the time you're identifying yourself as "we" then you're off the baseline standard for normal townies. It's a nervous tic.

Other nervous tics:

Overreaction to a powerful townie being lynched, and trying to paint everyone involved as scum (too easy to put a halo over yourself this way, and unnatural. That's not how normal people react)
Lecturing people on how useful a particular strategy is (such as No Lynch on round one in a game filled with investigators and blockers and such... I do this as mafia, unfortunately)
Being particularly involved or useful, above your baseline (a normal lurker who suddenly starts networking and sharing lots of information... what prompts the change?)
Apologizing for inactivity or misinterpreting someone, when you normally wouldn't apologize. (I can't tell you how often I've seen this)
Repeated changes in attitude towards someone or something when it doesn't fit. (In this game, a pro/anti/pro/anti/pro stance that Subotan took towards me... it made no sense)

Mafia ESP- Mafia subconsciously avoid voting for people they wish to leave alive, or feel they cannot get lynched. This is a big one. Observe how often players like myself, Tincow, Diamondeye, pevergreen, Centurion1, etc ended up voting for people at various points in the game that later ended up still being alive. However, players like Subotan will end up voting for the easiest to lynch candidates, or people they will end up murdering later on if they don't get lynched. Over time, this subtle variation from standard becomes apparent. Those they vote for wind up dead more often than normal, both ways; by lynch AND by murder. Even WOG.

The anomalous exceptions will be players that are advantageous to leave alive because they are distracting (Centurion1) or lynchbait (ATPG). But the standard players will wind up dead once voted for by mafia. That is what mafia ESP is. Townies do not know who will end up being murdered by the mafia, and so their play style indicates a strategy which incorporates no knowledge of the eventual deaths. However, Mafia plan for the future... consciously or subconsciously. They know who they want alive and dead, and their vote corresponds with their ability to murder, because they wield both sabers in order to cut down the town. Watch their votes.... they will compliment their murders ever so nicely, unless they are specifically playing against a Mafia ESP analysis, which basically no one does.

I was not doing so great explaining this theory, but I've used it before and it works. Just like I've used the "we" thing against Cultured Drizzt Fan when he was mafia. My problem is I come up with some good ideas, and I notice subtle psychological tics that are indicative of a deceptive psychological state, even in text, but I use WAY too many words in explaining them, and then I add in all the other little details, and the post gets so big no one wants to read it.

Wish I knew how YLC and Renata nailed Psychonaut though. I think his deceptive posts as a townie got confused for mafia behavior, to our advantage when he was mafia.

Bunvote- Why playing mafia games from your cellphone is bad

"My last words will be (bleep) you!"- What a prideful (and now, sheepish) townie says when he's gotten himself into a pickle he doesn't know how to wiggle out of. :embarassed:

"And apparently, ATPG is always right. :rolleyes:"- Scum.

Choxorn

05-19-2010, 06:40

Bunvote shall go down in history as one of the most hilarious typos ever in a mafia game.

Askthepizzaguy

05-19-2010, 07:16

https://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb225/askthepizzaguy/EPYC/Bunvote.png

Oh, I totally agree. :beam: Centurion1, I will always cherish the joy this word has brought to me, and indeed, the world.

Niklas

05-19-2010, 09:32

Congratulations ATPG. :bow:

Excellent game, Sigurd! :bow:

I hope to never end up in a team with pevergreen ever again.

Diana Abnoba

05-19-2010, 09:41

YEAH!!!! Great game!!! Congrats Pizza, great job! Also to all the other townies, great job! I was really worried at the beginning when we were chasing our tails and lynching our pro town roles. To the mafia, you did a fantastic job, sorry for your loss (ha,ha, not really (sorry about the outburst)). Thanks Sigurd for hosting this amazing game! Oh yeah, love the BUNVOTE also!!

Andres

05-19-2010, 09:55

Yay, we win ~:cheers:

Congrats, pizza! Great job!

And congrats mafiosi, a great performance! Worthy adversaries :bow:

And of course: THANK YOU SIGURD!! I was a bit disappointed to be killed rather early in the game, but your great write-ups kept me coming back each day. Brilliant stuff! This game had it all: suspense, tension, a narrow victory, drama and fun! And lightsabers!

Subotan

05-19-2010, 10:28

"We we we" all the way home- Certain people, when mafia, use the word "we" more often than normal, and frequently this is because they are subconsciously trying too hard to identify themselves with the group. Subotan admitted he was actually trying to do this, consciously in fact. This was a pretty bad case of it. When it is in half of your posts, or half of the time you're identifying yourself as "we" then you're off the baseline standard for normal townies. It's a nervous tic.

You picking up on this left me dumbstruck. I had been making an effort to try and put it into as many posts as possible and I was absolutely gobsmacked that anyone would pick up on it and think it was scummy.

Overreaction to a powerful townie being lynched, and trying to paint everyone involved as scum (too easy to put a halo over yourself this way, and unnatural. That's not how normal people react) .
When did this happen?

Lecturing people on how useful a particular strategy is (such as No Lynch on round one in a game filled with investigators and blockers and such... I do this as mafia, unfortunately) .
Guilty.

Being particularly involved or useful, above your baseline (a normal lurker who suddenly starts networking and sharing lots of information... what prompts the change?) .
So I'm a lurker? :cry:

Apologizing for inactivity or misinterpreting someone, when you normally wouldn't apologize. (I can't tell you how often I've seen this)
/
Guilty.

Repeated changes in attitude towards someone or something when it doesn't fit. (In this game, a pro/anti/pro/anti/pro stance that Subotan took towards me... it made no sense)
[/SPOIL]
Guilty.

Mafia ESP
I disagree with this. I still stand by the maths that if 3/4 of the total amount of players are dead, then 3/4 of any given individuals votes are going to be dead.

"And apparently, ATPG is always right. :rolleyes:"- Scum.
Guilty. :devilish:

************

About PEVERGREEN'S behaviour; I am still extremely annoyed about what you did on the night when we should have killed ATPG, and for several reasons. Had we both worked together to kill ATPG, and then you had killed me in the possible standoff that resulted between us I wouldnt feel one iota of resentment. (That would probably have been the most likely outcome, given I totally understimated your abilities). It would have been within the grounds of repesctable mafia playing and goodsportsmanship. Likewise, had our attempt to kill ATPG failed, or if the town had worked out who we were earlier and wiped us out, then again, I would feel no resentment. Dissapointment, yes, but not resentment.

However, that is not what happened. You went beyond the grounds of normal mafia behaviour by gambling your own individual victory above that of your team. You knew that you would be unable to kill me, and yet you proceeded to do so. But more importantly, your behaviour went against every convention that exists in a mafia game. Vanilla townies are expected to take a bullet for top roles, becuase they know that they will share a joint victory in the end. Likewise, mafiosi are expected to work together as a team to bring down the town.

Your "roleplaying" is a crock of :daisy:. How on Earth do you think you can set yourself your own victory conditions, despite the fact that you already have victory conditions set for you by being Sith and then use these imaginary conditions to justify the sabotage of our hard work? I, Niklas and Pyshconaut spent over a month planning, discussing and working undercover to secure a team victory. We were the ones who set up various Xanatos Gambits, only to see you throw all of our collective efforts away. When the Rule of Two was revealed, I PM'd Sigurd to see if I would have to kill Niklas. The reply I got was along the lines of "Maybe...but if you fail, the :daisy: will hit the fan". I decided against it, putting our team interests above that of my own. That is what you should have done, and Psycho puts it well when he says that it leaves a sour taste in his mouth. I still stand by my earlier comments in the Sith Quicktopic (http://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/GaLu2FpeS6LAk Post 469), ad although it would be unfair to say that the game has been ruined, as the town, other Sith's and ofc Sigurd's input has been invaluable.

*************

That aside, I would like to thank certain players, either for their skill and the challenge they provided or for helping me.

Sasaki - For being quiet and not forming an unbreakable pact with ATPG.
Thermal Mercury - For acting exactly how I did in Mafia IX
Diamondeye - For being a formidable grandmaster
Beskar - For being a formidable grandmaster, and also lynchbait.
Renata - For very perceptive posts, especially the ones which said I was innocent.
Centurion1 - The best weapon we never knew we had.
YLC - For being discreet, and for sniffing out Psycho instantly.
Tincow - Again, for being a great challenge to try and decieve.
ATPG - For being ATPG. I only wish I'd bumped you off in the mid-game.

And of course:

Niklas - For being an excellent scum partner throughout the game, even after death. Never too willing to agree to what I suggested or too stubborn, as well as infiltrating Beskar's proto-network. :2thumbsup:

Psychonaut - Not just for being a great choice by Random.org, but also for managing to stay undercover for so long, as well as for only being undone by events prior to your embrace of the Dark Side.

Sigurd - Thanks a lot, both for hosting this game and giving us the info that kept us one step ahead of town, as well as all the extremely entertaining write-ups and for changing the updates to be one hour earlier.

If you haven't been mentioned, and your name isn't PEVERGREEN, then don't feel left out. I enjoyed playing against, tricking and kill you all :bow:

Ibn-Khaldun

05-19-2010, 10:42

Great game, Sigurd!

Congratulations ATPG!

And Siths, I really want to know who killed me! Niklas? Subotan?

Askthepizzaguy

05-19-2010, 11:06

ATPG: Overreaction to a powerful townie being lynched, and trying to paint everyone involved as scum (too easy to put a halo over yourself this way, and unnatural. That's not how normal people react)

Response:

When did this happen?

The overreaction to a townie being lynched was Hoth, I believe. That was very early on, when you were saying things like "GOOD JOB TEAM" and the following:

He wasn't really meta-ing any more than being un-cooperative. My guess is that the only justification for lynching him was becuse he voted for ATPG rather than Beskar, despite saying he hated networks. I'm just musing here, but I think the reason he didn't vote to lynch Beskar is because Beskar is unlynchable, whilst ATPG has a loooooong history at being at the nucleus of such networks.

In short, dumb lynch by people uncomfortable with losing ATPG (Who was coincidentally, both saved by and voted for ACIN's lynch) led to a coup for the anti-town forces.

GOOD JOB TEAM

Wow guys, let's see who we've just lynched!

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hoth_%28individual%29

Hoth's act of self-sacrifice saved the Galactic Republic (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Galactic_Republic) and ended the Sith as a galactic threat for almost a thousand years.

HMMMM.

.............

So I'm a lurker?

No :bow: you're quite active, refreshingly so. In fact most of those "tells" were in general. Some don't apply to you, but other mafiosi I've seen since my beginnings.

In order to rebuild the Jedi Order, I must show everything I've learned. I'm not so conceited to think there weren't players before I ever showed up who could sniff out scumbags like professional sleuths, but.... sort of like the Jedi themselves, sometimes one of them learns something the others hadn't learned before (Such as Plo Koon's discovery of Electric Judgment (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Electric_Judgment)) he tries to share it with the others, and it is added to the Jedi Holocron.

I myself learned plenty from watching other players in action. When I was designing my mafia analysis systems, I studied old, basic games of mafia to learn exactly what the mafia did in order to succeed... which behaviors they used and under what circumstances. Watching players like Sasaki and Kommodus and Kagemusha, and so on, in action helped me understand not only what mafia typically do (useful as townie) and what they do which works (useful as mafia). Then, participating in many themed and complex games, I've noticed other, more complicated gambits and tactics which seem to bend the will of the town in almost any direction. Correctly employed, you could easily destroy a detective before they even claim detective... or extract yourself from the jaws of a lynch... or avoid being slain by mafia altogether. I think Sasaki was my biggest inspiration with regards to the skillful use of lies... and I studied Andres to figure out how best to win as a team, as mafia. Tincow and Seamus Fermanagh and Kommodus were my inspiration with regards to townie analysis (or fake townie analysis) and then my own experience as being mafia over 20 times and playing nearly 100 games has shown me the subtleties of the Force. Things like behavioral tics and obvious attempts at deception.

The thing is, things are ALWAYS clearer in retrospect. What looked like perfectly normal behavior at the time, but was actually veiled attempts at misleading the town from within, becomes increasingly scummy with the advantage of a historical perspective. Voting patterns is where I started... you can have clearly scummy voting patterns. (Especially the Niklas tie; that wasn't worth it...) but more important is voting for players in a systematic fashion, moving from one suspect to the other, and they all end up dead and innocent. Example:

See if I can explain better.
Scum voting pattern:

Vote: Player A
Vote: Player B
Vote: Player A
Vote: Player C
(Player A ends up dead, is innocent)
Vote: Player C
(Player B ends up dead, is innocent)
Vote: Player D
Vote: Player E
(Player E is lynched, is innocent)
Vote: Player C
(Player C is lynched, is innocent)
(Player D ends up dead, is innocent)
Vote: Player F
Vote: Player G
(Player F ends up dead, is innocent)
Vote: Player H

This is much more systematic than:

Townie Voting pattern:

Vote: Player A
Vote: Player B
Vote: Player C
(Player H ends up dead)
Vote: Player D
Vote: Player E
Vote: Player F
(Player E ends up dead)
Vote: Player B
(Player C is lynched, was innocent)
Vote: Player F
Vote: Player G
(Player B is murdered)

The lynches and murders don't line up as well here. Many of the players being voted for are still alive.

Endgame:

Player (example2) and Player D are still alive and have been voting each other at various points in the game.
Player (example1) and Player H are still alive, and Player (example1) has been avoiding him.

This is a very crude, hastily assembled, and generic example. However, it illustrates the larger point, which was the systematic and sequential nature of who you voted for, Subotan, and the general order of the deaths in the game. It was very linear. More linear than everyone else's voting pattern, anyway.

That's much more obvious in large games where there is a much longer timeline to analyze. In small games, there is not a very, very long view to have to worry about. In large games, players do not realize that their behaviors and comments that happened in round 2-3 can have a very large impact on round 16. That is the long view that even the mafia cannot foresee. But the townies can see it, once they get to that point, and have the benefit of hindsight and full knowledge of one's behavior over the course of the game.

In this case, hindsight is 20/20.

I disagree with this. I still stand by the maths that if 3/4 of the total amount of players are dead, then 3/4 of any given individuals votes are going to be dead.

It was more the timing, and the percentage of people who ended up dead and innocent, who you voted for, the reasons you voted for them, and the order you voted for them. It was like you were moving from one kill to the other, but generally focusing on the same general area, and most of those would end up dead before you moved on to the rest.

Furthermore, heavy analysis works better in the endgame because:

1. Fewer suspects to analyze (better percentages even due to blind luck... but also easier to hold all the data in your head)
2. More data per suspect (Critical)
3. There may be a discernible pattern to one's behavior which corresponds to a sequential mafia strategy (in this case, Subotan's) which would not be obvious at the time, and only makes sense as a case in retrospect.

That's how I operate anyway. But, I pick out subtle tells I've seen before which are blips on the radar screen, like the "we" thing or the overreaction thing. Even early on, such tells are better than nothing. They aren't conclusive though.

Add them up by the endgame and odd behavior becomes much more noticeable and pronounced, and the divergence in behavior between town and scum becomes almost blindingly obvious. Were it not for the utterly bizarre behavior of Centurion1, Subotan would have been the lynch that round when we first lynched Cent. It was not only persuasive but much more conclusive than a random vote.

Centurion1 accidentally gave off tons of false signals. It was truly baffling.

Renata

05-19-2010, 11:42

If it were not for Cent, Subotan certainly *would* have been lynched (and if not him, Psychonaut), which would have changed the dynamics of the game considerably either way. Not necessarily in a town-friendly fashion, given the various complications in the game, but it would have been different. Cent ... I remember commenting to Pizza on the night after your first lynch that you seemed like a townie, but that impression was undermined by your actions later. I wish I'd been able to be more active that first day.

Where did I say you were innocent, Subotan? I don't remember doing that.

Sigurd, although I do have a few quibbles with the mechanics, this game was a true pleasure to play -- thank you very much for all your hard work.

pevergreen

05-19-2010, 11:44

About PEVERGREEN'S behaviour; I am still extremely annoyed about what you did on the night when we should have killed ATPG, and for several reasons. Had we both worked together to kill ATPG, and then you had killed me in the possible standoff that resulted between us I wouldnt feel one iota of resentment. (That would probably have been the most likely outcome, given I totally understimated your abilities). It would have been within the grounds of repesctable mafia playing and goodsportsmanship. Likewise, had our attempt to kill ATPG failed, or if the town had worked out who we were earlier and wiped us out, then again, I would feel no resentment. Dissapointment, yes, but not resentment.

I don't think there would have been a standoff, nothing I'd seen pointed me to thinking there would be between us if ATPG died. I felt and feel and never will feel guilty about attempting to kill you. The fact that it was you was simply the cherry on the top.

Lets think back to PSM. You guys are hailed as heroes and it being the stuff of legend. What if it went differently and you hit pro town roles? Sure, each person had the side goal of accumulating treasure, but you were still townies, yet you chose to kill random people. Lucky for you, you managed to hit quite a bit of the anti town players and so your intent was overlooked in favour of results. If you guys knocked out all the pro town roles, I bet you that no one would be cheering, they'd feel the same as you do towards me.

1. Its a game, get the :daisy: over it.
2. Boo hoo, you worked hard.
3. Miscapitalising my name on purpose is not funny, nor does it annoy me as much as you think it does. It does show a lack of respect and points to you being a large :daisy:wit, which in the QT, you have pretty much proven yourself to be.

However, that is not what happened. You went beyond the grounds of normal mafia behaviour by gambling your own individual victory above that of your team. You knew that you would be unable to kill me, and yet you proceeded to do so. But more importantly, your behaviour went against every convention that exists in a mafia game. Vanilla townies are expected to take a bullet for top roles, becuase they know that they will share a joint victory in the end. Likewise, mafiosi are expected to work together as a team to bring down the town.

Your "roleplaying" is a crock of :daisy:. How on Earth do you think you can set yourself your own victory conditions, despite the fact that you already have victory conditions set for you by being Sith and then use these imaginary conditions to justify the sabotage of our hard work?

Not played with Reenk? Or the other players that set themselves goals as vanilla townies to make it more fun? It gets less fun to play a vanilla townie after the x number of times in a row.

As for Pyscho, I can understand why.

Theres honour, and then there is honour. One type is suspended in mafia. I did nothing dishonourable.

So, feel free to resent me for screwing you over, because I'm quite happy I did.

Apart from the three of you, no one seems to think that I have done anything wrong, or if they do, they have not said anything.

As I said, if in this situation, I was Sigurd and he was me, I would inform him if I felt he was doing something unethical, if I was aware of it. I do not know if Sigurd would, but he knew. I asked him for his opinion on what I did, and he had nothing negative to say, more than a 'told you so' about the outcome.

@Mods: I've tried to keep in org guidelines.

Askthepizzaguy

05-19-2010, 11:51

Continuing from above, @Subotan, re: ESP

Returning to the original list (like 1000 posts ago)

Subotan voted for:

Lord Winter- got WOGed (Call him Player A)
Beskar- Got killed (Player B)
ATPG- nearly lynched several times (Player C)
AVSM- got WOGed, replacement got murdered. (Player D)
Beskar- Killed (Player B)
AVSM- got WOGed, replacement got murdered. (Player D)
Thermal- lynched (Player E)
Joooray- murdered (Player F)
Greyblades- Lynched (Player G)
Autolycus- Lynched (player H)
pevergreen- close to being lynched before and recently. (Player I)
WhiteEyes- Lynched (Player J)
Johnhughthom- nearly lynched recently. (Player K)
Centurion1- looks like he's toast.... (Player L)

Now, when did such players die or get close to dying?

Player A- Inactive, got replaced round 7. (murdered after replacement, hence delay) Became Choxorn round 7, killed round 13
Player B- Lynched Round 2, Killed Round 5
Player C- Nearly lynched Round 3, lynchbait so was never finished off.
Player D- Inactive, got replaced round 10. (murdered after replacement, hence delay) Became YLC round 10, killed round 12
Player E- Lynched Round 7
Player F- Murdered Round 7
Player G- Lynched Round 8
Player H- Lynched Round 12
Player I- was kept around as lynchbait, but nearly lynched Round 9
Player J- Lynched Round 11
Player K- Killed Round 13
Player L- Lynched Round 13, 14, 15

Do you see the pattern? The order in which you voted them goes A, B, C, D, E...... and the time they died or got lynched or got wogged goes:

A- 7 (13) replacement
B- 2, 5
C- 3
D- 10, (12) replacement
B- 2, 5
D- 10, (12) replacement
E- 7
F- 7
G- 8
H- 12
I- 9
J- 11
K- 13
L- 13, 14, 15....

And that's just a partial sample of your overall votes. When it goes (2, 5) 3, (2, 5) 7, 7, 8, 12, 9, 11, 13, 14, 15.... There's a systematic pattern. People you voted for ended up dying by lynch or murder in an almost sequential pattern. It was far less random. Hopping from Beskar to AVSM to Beskar to AVSM didn't help matters. You didn't move onto the later death people until later in the game.

Others ended up voting in a less sequential pattern. They voted for people way out of order of their actual deaths, especially with regards to the murder.

I wish I could demonstrate this by my own voting pattern, or Tincow's, or pevergreen's, or Diamondeye's, but I'm not sure how interesting it would be. I would feel like I am laboring the point.

Do you see the arc, though?

[Winter, Beskar, ATPG, AVSM, Beskar, AVSM]- early game, ended up being early lynched, wogged, or early murdered. Not voting for mid-game people yet.
[Thermal, Joooray, Greyblades, Autolycus] - mid game, ended up dying rounds 7, 7, 8, and 12. Not voting for late-game people yet.
[pevergreen, White_Eyes, Johnhughthom, Centurion1]- late game, ended up being nearly lynched, lynched, or killed rounds 9, 11, 13, 13, 14, 15.... Not moving on to the endgame people yet.

Before you move on to the next cluster, many in your current cluster end up dead, or you end up being certain they won't be lynched. And then the order of the deaths almost matches the order in which you voted for them.

Add this to the pile: Of the people you voted for, many ended up dead via lynch; very few died by the murder, which indicated you knew which players you wanted to just straight up murder, and which players you thought you had a shot at lynching. But even so, you tried your hand at lynching certain folks first.

Does it make any sense now? Or am I seeing patterns that aren't there? :sweatdrop:

Well... I see it.... Let me have my moment... :shame: even a stopped clock is right sometimes... :embarassed:

TinCow

05-19-2010, 11:54

Many thanks for an entertaining game, Sigurd! :2thumbsup:

Secura

05-19-2010, 11:56

Congratulations Pizza, commiserations to pevergreen and the rest of the Sith.

As I stated before, as a player I was disappointed with the way that the game panned out for the duration I was alive, both in terms of mechanics and other players... but upon dying, I have to say that I began to read the writeups more thoroughly and I really enjoyed Sigurd's narrative style; the final battle writeups in particular were an absolute joy to read.

Also, the Sith QuickTopic is pretty funny to read, particularly Subotan's first-post analysis about the entire gamebase... it's funny that I'm invariably scummy for reasons that I just don't see, which probably means I'm destined to be lynched or killed early for every game I participate in henceforth! For the most part though, I'm very "meh, cba" when playing as a mafioso, so I wouldn't be all that surprised to be on the recieving end of a tirade not unlike the one pever's just recieved at some point, either. xD

I do have to say though... that was really, really harsh to kill Husar in the first night. Poor choice.

Secura

05-19-2010, 11:59

And boys, please... it's just a game; you lost, that happens.

If you don't want to talk to pevergreen again, or vice versa, then don't... but don't stir up this kinda resentment inside yourselves or anything like that; we're all just a group of like-minded people playing mafia, at the end of the day... and we're all better than petty squabbles. :3

Subotan

05-19-2010, 12:28

Where did I say you were innocent, Subotan? I don't remember doing that..
Didn't you? I had the impression you were "pro-Subotan" but I may be mistaken. Maybe I'm confusing your behaviour in Mafia IX.

Great game, Sigurd!

Congratulations ATPG!
And Siths, I really want to know who killed me! Niklas? Subotan?
That was me. We had actually already decided to kill you prior to your challenge, but it was entertaining none-the-less, and provided us with a exampple of What Happens When You Mess With Us (Tm). I submitted the music :D

Mega-posts
OK, that makes more sense. You didn't express it as clearly in your earlier posts
. It could be summed beter by saying that I vote for people who I want dead, and if they're not lynched, then the mafia kill them.

I don't think there would have been a standoff, nothing I'd seen pointed me to thinking there would be between us if ATPG died. I felt and feel and never will feel guilty about attempting to kill you. The fact that it was you was simply the cherry on the top.
Oh wow, I thought you'd just acted out of selfish reasons and a desire to win a lone victory. It turns out you were actually behaving a lot, lot worse.

Lets think back to PSM. You guys are hailed as heroes and it being the stuff of legend. What if it went differently and you hit pro town roles? Sure, each person had the side goal of accumulating treasure, but you were still townies, yet you chose to kill random people. Lucky for you, you managed to hit quite a bit of the anti town players and so your intent was overlooked in favour of results. If you guys knocked out all the pro town roles, I bet you that no one would be cheering, they'd feel the same as you do towards me

I was thinking about PSM earlier, but it's different, for several reasons. For one, none of us betrayed each other, as you did to the other Sith. Also, the victory we were pursuing (Get loadsamoney and abandon ship) was clearly stated in the game rules by GH. Yours, however, was not. It was complete fantasy.

Another important point; we actually turned out to be pro-our faction in the end. You, however, didn't.

1. Its a game, get the :daisy: over it.
2. Boo hoo, you worked hard.
3. Miscapitalising my name on purpose is not funny, nor does it annoy me as much as you think it does. It does show a lack of respect and points to you being a large :daisy:wit, which in the QT, you have pretty much proven yourself to be.

1+2. It's a game I and the others spent over a month working on, only for you to ruin it. Am I supposed to go skipping merrily down the road, thanking PEVERGREEN for being the sole cause for my defeat? No, I'm angry, and I'm not afraid to tell it to your face or expose you as the bad person to play with you are.

3. Obviously, with that kind of response, it does bother you. And do you know what? I don't care if I am being ever so slightly disrepectful, given how immensely disrespectful you have just played. In PEVERworld, I am the bad guy, for daring to not find PEVERGREEN's stupid antics funny and for criticising him and his play style. Well, I still stand by my play style, and I repeat the words I made in the quicktopic. I sincerely hope I never, ever have to play in a mafia team with you ever again.

Not played with Reenk? Or the other players that set themselves goals as vanilla townies to make it more fun? It gets less fun to play a vanilla townie after the x number of times in a row.

You were not a vanilla townie. And yes, I have played with Reenk, and he was much more sporting and respectful in his behaviour than you were.

Theres honour, and then there is honour. One type is suspended in mafia. I did nothing dishonourable.

So, feel free to resent me for screwing you over, because I'm quite happy I did.

Apart from the three of you, no one seems to think that I have done anything wrong, or if they do, they have not said anything.

Actually, I have a comment by a certain player whose name would be unfair for me to reveal without his/her permission, calling you stuff that wouldn't be allowed under .Org guidelines.

As I said, if in this situation, I was Sigurd and he was me, I would inform him if I felt he was doing something unethical, if I was aware of it. I do not know if Sigurd would, but he knew. I asked him for his opinion on what I did, and he had nothing negative to say, more than a 'told you so' about the outcome.
Sigurd was doing his duty as a game mod. Don't try and shift responsibility for your actions onto him.

Also, the Sith QuickTopic is pretty funny to read, particularly Subotan's first-post analysis about the entire gamebase... it's funny that I'm invariably scummy for reasons that I just don't see, which probably means I'm destined to be lynched or killed early for every game I participate in henceforth! For the most part though, I'm very "meh, cba" when playing as a mafioso, so I wouldn't be all that surprised to be on the recieving end of a tirade not unlike the one pever's just recieved at some point, either. xD
I figured I would get heat for that....

I do have to say though... that was really, really harsh to kill Husar in the first night. Poor choice.

Sorry...The fact that he had just re-joined slipped my mind. I actually suggested him for a kill because he was a good mafia player, so it could be seen as a compliment, in a perverse kind of way.

And boys, please... it's just a game; you lost, that happens.

I'm just stating my reasons for why I'm criticial of PEVERGREEN, and hopefully helping to shed some light to the town on why the Sith lost. At least I'm being honest about it.

pevergreen

05-19-2010, 12:34

Actually, I have a comment by a certain player whose name would be unfair for me to reveal without his/her permission, calling you stuff that wouldn't be allowed under .Org guidelines.

Well that person is free to contact and say whatever they want to me in private, if they so wish.

:bow:

Secura

05-19-2010, 12:41

I figured I would get heat for that...

It's not heat, per se... it's just I wouldn't personally agree with your summary of me; I'm not Mancunian for a start. I suppose I should thank you for killing me two or three turns after it was initially suggested, as well... three more turns of scratching my head wondering what was going to be revealed in due course. xD

Sorry...The fact that he had just re-joined slipped my mind. I actually suggested him for a kill because he was a good mafia player, so it could be seen as a compliment, in a perverse kind of way.

I think he stated it was a return to mafia in the thread, but nevermind; Husar still participated right up to the last, which is commendable.

I'm just stating my reasons for why I'm criticial of PEVERGREEN, and hopefully helping to shed some light to the town on why the Sith lost. At least I'm being honest about it.

You have the chance to be the bigger person, though; no need to plague the end of this game with such hostility, treacle.

Be more weary of who you trust next time; an ally foisted upon you rarely adopts your goals... look at TinCow in Inishmore or pevergreen here. You played well, nonetheless... so take stock in that at least. :3

Sigurd

05-19-2010, 12:47

Game host commentaries

I must say that this game has been work, work, work. I had totally forgotten how much time you actually need to invest hosting a large mafia game. The planning part is the most fun part in my opinion. You never know which end you will start from, and the finished product is always a surprise. At least, that’s the way it is for me which to the psychologists among you should indicate that I don’t like doing things more than once or twice.

In this game, I started out with the base idea of wanting to redo a former StarWars game that Elite Ferret once did
(https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?103947-Small-mafia-Star-Wars&highlight=Star+Wars)
I especially liked the rule of two idea where the Sith just recruited a new player when one of them died.
As such, every player could potentially become a Sith. This was where I started designing my game. I started with the Sith and made 39 Sith characters. I picked some well known ones and some lesser known ones. I wanted to have some that turned back and forth and some that had been Jedi before falling to the dark side. When the Sith was made, I needed 40 Jedi roles. One was to be the first Grand Master, the only character in the game that wouldn’t be turned into a Sith. The choice was simple, who other than Yoda could fill that role? The rest of the Jedi characters would be Sith cover roles. Many of them were accurate like Anakin -> Darth Vader, Count Dooku -> Darth Tyranus, Palpatine -> Darth Sidious and Shira Brie – Lumiya. Others were customized and slightly altered to fit.
My prime goal was to find Jedi cover roles of same species, secondary: that they at least looked alike or resembled the Sith characters.

The final character list was this.

Aayla Secura - Talon Darth
Anakin Skywalker -Vader Darth
Atris - Traya Darth
Barrison Draay - Bandon Darth
Barriss Offee - Phobos Darth
Belth Allusis - Plagueis Darth
Corran Horn - Millennial Darth
Count Dooku - Tyranus Darth
Daye Azur-Jamin - Carnor Jax
Den Siva - Nihl Darth
Dhidal Nyz - Azard Darth
Eeth Koth - Maul Darth
Finn Galfridian - Kaox Krul
Galen Marek - Nihilus Darth
Galleros Nul - Rivan Darth
Githany - Githany
Guun Han Saresh - Ruyn Darth
Hoth - Revan Darth
Jacen Solo - Caedus Darth
Jorus C'baoth - Sion Darth
Kenth Hamner - Freedon Nadd
Keyan Farlander - Exar Kun
Koffi Arana - Andeddu Darth
Kyp Durron - Kyp Durron
Lar Le'Ung - Desolous Darth
Luke Skywalker - Angral
Mace Windu - Bane Darth
Mara Jade Skywalker - Zannah Darth
Mas Amedda - Wyyrlok Darth
Micah Giiett - Vectivus Darth
Nomi Sunrider - Cognus Darth
Obi Wan Kenobi - Ruin Darth
Palpatine - Sidious Darth
Qui-Gon Jinn - Stryfe Darth
Shira Brie - Lumiya
Sifo-Dyas - Malak Darth
Streen - Krayt Darth
Tahiri Veila - Tahiri Veila
X2 - Kaan
Yoda - n/a

Balancing the game

When I started doing this part of the game, I soon discovered that it was a large job to make sure that every player would have equal opportunity to win. There were already the problem with Characters that had too close connections with the Sith (Palapatine anyone?) and characters with no connection at all (Yoda, Mace Windu, Obi Wan, Qui Gon). I had planned that all characters should received a rank which determined their “easiness to kill”. I landed on a 5 tier rank system with Initiates at the bottom and the Grand Master at the top. The game started out with 1 Grand Master, 4 Jedi Masters, 8 Jedi Knights, 10 Padawans and the rest Initiates. I had initially decided on a system where Masters had to train Initiates to become Padawans and Padawans to become Jedi Knights, but left that idea as it would be just one more administrative thing to handle. But players had to advance in rank and I let the Sith decide by killing players. If they killed someone above the rank of Initiate, a random player would fill this spot.

Players need to have something to do, which will generate discussions in the game and a doctor role and a investigator are good choices for making a game a little more interesting for some of the players.
Yoda got both abilities and the investigator role went to one character that probably wouldn’t be believed (Count Dooku) and the doctor role went to Qui Gon (both Masters)

I soon found that balancing the game was a too large job when adding in all the features I wanted. There would be too many rules to implement should this be a perfectly balanced game.
I then came over the discussion you guys had on balancing. I particularly liked the mafia scum article on this subject. The one that states that balance is not important. The most important aspect of a game is the illusion that it is winnable by all factions.
I just had to test this out and I believed that it was a successful try out.
With the Sith able to recruit new players every time they lost one, the game was set up to run until the last player, much like a bicycle race or a cross country skiing race. You have teams or nations with several participants in each, but there can only be one winner. The illusion, if you want, is that every participant could win. But reality is that only one will cross the finishing line first and it is usually the one who is either lucky (Australian gold in Salt Lake) or better trained. But since there are teams involved, they will help each other and finally one will win the price for himself and for his team or nation.
I believe all these aspects were in the game. Luck played a major role when it came to who became Sith, and skill (training) played a role when trying to survive until the end.

The Sith needed to be two to be able to defeat the strongest characters like Masters with multiple abilities and Grand Masters, but the Sith was weak when they just turned Sith. I had a progression system where they only learned one killing skill when they first became Sith and which grew by one other by every round. In addition they participated in the great force lotto like everyone else.

The great Force lottery.

Some players got abilities outside the great lotto, but let’s explain the lotto first.
The character sheet was maintained in excel and every player had therefore an integer number with their character. I sorted the excel sheet many times during the game. Every lynched or killed player dropped to the bottom and I had the list sorted on current rank with the Sith having the first two places in the list.

Every night I used the integer Random.org feature where I would pick 4 integers within the living list’s integer range (3-42 with the last number decreasing every time someone was removed from the game)
These 4 numbers corresponded to a living player who had now “won” the force lottery.
Depending on rank, abilities were handed out. Padawans could only learn one ability every night and from the Padawan tier of abilities. Grand Masters and Masters could learn 3 abilities, one from each tier (knights could learn 2).
Each ability was attached to an integer and it was again Random.org who determined which ability a player got. Padawan abilities ranged from 1 to 4, Jedi Knight from 5 - 9 etc.
This system could potentially receive multiple same integers, which it did. Sometimes a player got double lottery wins when their integers showed up twice. I think Subotan which had number 3 in the list received double lottery more than once. I think he was maxed out on abilities long before he was finally lynched. (Note: with multiple integers being picked and a 40 number range, nearly every time the random picker picked a small number as one of the results).

In addition, Grand Masters and Sith had their own tiers which they learned new abilities from outside the force lottery. (incremental by rounds).

When Jedi Knights and Jedi Masters were lucky the first time, it was mentioned in the write-ups as being awakened to the force. Padawans, just got a “you stumbled over a holocron and it taught you an ability.”

The full list of Abilities with their integers are:

Padawan tier
1 Breath control.
2 Absorb
3 Push
4 Speed

Jedi Knight tier
5 Blinding
6 Deflection
7 Grip
8 Protecting
9 Stealth

Jedi Master tier
10 Cloak
11 Ghost
12 Healing
13 Lightning
14 Sense

Grand Master tier
15 Interrogation
16 Morichro

Sith tier
17 Choke
18 Destruction
19 Drain

The Padawan and Knight abilities were more or less just defensive abilities to be used if they were attacked by the Sith or vigilante Masters. I had devised a paper scissors rock kind of system, all though in reality it was just a Paper Rock thing

Kill abilities vs. Defence abilities:

Force Lightning is countered by Force Absorb, Force Deflection, Force Protect, and Force Cloak.
Force Choke is countered by Force Push, Force Speed, Force Blinding, Force Grip and Force Cloak
Force Destruction is countered by Force Absorb and Force Protect.
Force Drain is countered by Force Push, Force Speed, Force Blinding, Force Grip and Cloak.
Lightsaber is countered by better rank, Force Push, Force Speed, Force Blinding, Force Grip and Force Protect.

Other attacks

Force Sense is countered by Force Stealth and Force Cloak (Stealth hides alignment, Cloak hides player)
Force Interrogation is countered by Force Stealth (alignment only) and Force Cloak (Cloak hides player and loses therefore not an ability)
Force Morichro is countered by Force Cloak.

In the early game, players could only use one ability when killing and defending. I think it was when the number of players was reduced by half when I introduced multiple attacks and multiple defences. Advanced Masters and Sith (The Sith Lord was in the Master level tier and the Dark Lord of the Sith was in the Grand Master level tier) would eventually learn to use two abilities pr action and finally able to do two actions with two abilities in each restricting it to one kill pr round.

The players were all susceptible to the dark Side since they all had a Sith character waiting for them. Investigators would sooner than later find players that were using Stealth or actually finding Sith before seeing different results.
And using blocking before investigating was a terrible idea. The results would be warped.
Putting the susceptible to the dark side into the vig ability was meant as psychological restrainer. It worked...

The Back story

I needed a story for the game. All Mafia game needs a good back story; a backbone which you use as a red thread throughout the game. It needs a plausible Town vs. Mafia situation and a system which allows players to be removed from the game.
I had 39 Sith roles and 40 Jedi roles. The game started out with 40 town players where in the first rounds two were moved to the Sith faction.
How do you do this in the StarWars universe?
Since all my characters came from different times in the StarWars universe, I had to be creative. I remembered the Robert Jordan wheel of times concept about the wheel that turns and eventually generates iterations of the same movement.
I had to put this in the distant future at a time where the characters were all ancient history. But I also had to bring in elements from the past – like the holocrons. I had to trap 40 characters some place (common to all mafia games).
The story about a universe where the balance of the force was non existent began to form.
I made the Jedi a non religious and scientific faction without knowledge of the force. The good needing evil as in if you know no evil, you wouldn’t know what good was, began to form. The holocrons were obviously something that had to come from the past and would probably have been hidden from the Jedi until now. The lost Star Destroyer with old Empire artefacts seemed like a good solution.

The Art work

I early on obviously needed to fix some of the Character pictures, correcting colors and pictures. I started with a program called SnagIt which my company uses to capture screen shots and adding simple drawings, arrows etc to them.
Having screwed up Count Dooku’s character image by using the wrong colors, I realised that this program was too basic for my needs. However I made most of the early artwork including the first banners and the character cards with this program.

I wanted to try out an idea I had about promoting Mafia games outside .org. by making small commercial films. The need for a proper logo and theme was needed and I had to get a better program for my artwork. I came over Gimp 2.6 after investigating what the other Gameroomers used for their artwork. Thanks to Thermal Mercury and the artwork corner at TWC, I got into image manipulation.
I downloaded several textures and fonts for Gimp and started brushing up on all the StarWars themed images I had downloaded.
The logo is basically the font EPISODE 1 and some neon sign filter. The EPISODE 1 font has some special characters which includes # (the StarWars logo on the line above your text), % and & which puts lines above and under that which you are writing.
The actual logo went from StarWars Episode VII: The return of the Sith to StarWars: Return of the Sith and finally to StarWars Mafia: Return of the Sith.

I collected mostly StarWars drawings and not footage as the main bulk of the artwork, as it was easier to manipulate and IMO better looking for the game.
The StarWars Mafia watermark in the pictures was not to say that this was my work, but merely to make the artwork official game artwork and would be a good indication that images posted by players were either official or fake.
If you look at Count Dooku’s character card, I left it with the wrong colors as an additional lynchbait to that particular character. But even that had the watermark.

Noticing that players would check out my photobucket album (Which is OK BTW, I have nothing to hide there) I quickly renamed the Sith stuff to be near impossible to discern.
I only had the current Sith characters uploaded so the job was relatively small. I do remember in hindsight that this occurred in the last Midgard game also, and since I already made a contingency plan then, It was a quick job to implement in this game.

The videos didn’t produce the results I had envisioned as I doubt a single player joined because they saw them on youtube.
But the videos have been viewed a few times.
The first commercial where I played around with a SW crawl text (which I was quite happy with and my first movie ever) has been viewed 178 times. The second with the Sith pictures, which by the way, were a reveal over how the game would function (see the Anakin to Vader pictures, the holocron turning Jedi to Sith - all the Sith characters indicating that there would be many of them ), the second video has 428 views as I write this. The other videos (the opening listing all players and the duel) have 91 and 53 views.

I have gathered quite an extensive library with music and images for this game and the material could be used for creating many videos. But as I work full time and have a family, there were only time to do so much. Ideally I would have made a new video for every round, but I hadn’t the time.

My final arwork pieces, the medals are basically two sith emblems crossed st Andrews style with some gold, silver and bronze texture on it. I also put genuine medal ribbons in the empty circle space of the Sith emblems. I was quite happy with the silver one and tried to make the gold and bronze look equally natural, but I wasn’t that lucky with those. The medallions are multi layer pieces with many techniques for lighting and getting the texture to look 3D-ish.

----------------------------

I can’t think of anything else.
I am not going to do a night by night thing like I have done previously as that would take forever to produce. But feel free to ask questions…

Sigurd

Diamondeye

05-19-2010, 12:54

It took more than a hundred pages, but we managed to defeat the Sith. Congratulations to all my teammates on the Jedi team - many of you did much better than I did, with less powers to do it with.

A few comments of my own; First, An enormeous applause to the Sith, especially the original sith, Niklas and Subotan. Psychonaut also deserves some serious props for his convincing conniving. On the subject of pevergreen, I'd have to say that I agree with Niklas' sentiments; if I were on his team I would be at least as angry, if not much worse. But that chapter's been there and gone and we should move on - down the list...

To Subotan and AskThePizzaGuy; Thanks for the kind words, but I am undeserving :bow:. I played a bad game - seriously; When I was but a Master, I had Force Healing from the get-go, but I failed to put it to use in every case; I only briefly protected Beskar (on a wrong night), and I missed protecting the obvious "calling-out-the-sith" Ibn-Khaldun (I believe?) because of a deadline :shame:. Later on, when I had attained the title of Grand Master, I made a complete role reveal to an unscanned player (Renata, who luckily was innocent), as well as revealing my (now obsolete) role of protector to Niklas, who was sith. Luckily, he didn't catch on and try to kill me!

Then, I proceeded to Block/Investigate in the wrong order, both on Psychonaut (before conversion, though) and on Subotan (...!). My only scan catch was Niklas, who was more or less revealed in thread. I made an untimely role claim in public and I trusted Psychonaut for way too long. I never saw Subotan's guilt coming until it became painfully obvious. I then chose to disappear at the crucial moment, resulting in my demise at one of the last night phases of the game (I was sure that Force Absorb would have helped me survive the Force Destruction, but got handed Force Push by RNG because of being out of town -_-), which meant that a new Grand Master was promoted. Luckily, ATPG prevailed.

In conclusion, thanks to Sigurd for an awesome game, thanks to the town who pulled the major weight of the victory (especially people like TinCow, Renata, ATPG and Sasaki :bow:), thanks to the sith for a exhilerating and extremely exiting chase right to the finish line. I really enjoyed this game and I believe I would have no matter what role I was assigned.

Renata

05-19-2010, 13:06

Didn't you? I had the impression you were "pro-Subotan" but I may be mistaken. Maybe I'm confusing your behaviour in Mafia IX.

That's probably it. I remember thinking at the time that Pizza's "Nintendo Wii" argument was a good one, but I always had other priorities. I was obviously completely wrong about Niklas, though.

It could be summed beter by saying that I vote for people who I want dead, and if they're not lynched, then the mafia kill them.

Yup. I think Pizza is right about the pattern, and it's something that's really hard to avoid doing as mafia in a very long game, which makes it a great tool for the town. (Not foolproof, but useful.) It's also one reason that townies MUST not be lazy with their voting -- any honest attempt to find scum will most likely stand out in the long run as not likely to be mafia, but if you're phoning it in, that's not as likely.

Askthepizzaguy

05-19-2010, 13:34

Subotan

05-19-2010, 13:38

It's not heat, per se... it's just I wouldn't personally agree with your summary of me; I'm not Mancunian for a start. I suppose I should thank you for killing me two or three turns after it was initially suggested, as well... three more turns of scratching my head wondering what was going to be revealed in due course. xD

You're at university in Manchester, so that's good enough for me :P

You have the chance to be the bigger person, though; no need to plague the end of this game with such hostility, treacle.

Be more weary of who you trust next time; an ally foisted upon you rarely adopts your goals... look at TinCow in Inishmore or pevergreen here. You played well, nonetheless... so take stock in that at least. :3
It was automatic recruitment, so we didn't have a choice.

Yup. I think Pizza is right about the pattern, and it's something that's really hard to avoid doing as mafia in a very long game, which makes it a great tool for the town. (Not foolproof, but useful.) It's also one reason that townies MUST not be lazy with their voting -- any honest attempt to find scum will most likely stand out in the long run as not likely to be mafia, but if you're phoning it in, that's not as likely.
Note to Self: If playing as mafia, vote randomly. Also, if Pizza survives the mid-game, kill him.

Yaropolk

05-19-2010, 13:49

Subotan - why did the Sith spazz out at Pevergreen in QT? Yes he backstabbed you etc etc, but what was the alternative? Did you believe that you would kill ATPG if both of you joined the attack?

Askthepizzaguy

05-19-2010, 13:51

Subotan - why did the Sith spazz out at Pevergreen in QT? Yes he backstabbed you etc etc, but what was the alternative? Did you believe that you would kill ATPG if both of you joined the attack?

They undoubtedly would have been able to.

Sigurd

05-19-2010, 13:57

Question, Sigurd:

IMO pevergreen had a chance to defeat me on the final round, and not even if I used my best defenses could I overcome it. But I do not get the game mechanics, so I have to ask you, was I right?

It seemed to me Force Cloak, plus Force Destruction, plus Force Lightning, or some combination of two of his 4 possible attacks would have been able to counter both my Force Protect and my passive defenses.

Even more curious, if I were faced up against Subotan, he would have likely had Morichro and therefore been able to block me, and I'd have to block him back, limiting me to only one power; the Force Protect power. I would have lost that battle, wouldn't I?

Lets see...

You had Push, Speed and Blinding which defeats Ligtsabre, Choke and Drain.
Then you had Protection as an active ability which was used as a additional defense on the Sith's two chances of attacking you and would counter Destrucion. Lightsabre and Lightning.

He had
Choke, Destruction, Drain and Lightning as killing abilities, but hadn't scored Morichro or Interrogation in the lottery (Sith needs to get them via the lottery while you don't).
But he had both Cloak and Protection as active defensive abilities in addition to
Absorb, Push, Blinding and Grip as defensive abilities.

So you were a perfect match to go round after round not gaining on each other.
He activated both Cloak and Protection which left your offensive abilities useless. You couldn't interrogate, Morichro, electrocute or lightsabre him.

He couldn't take you out because you had protection and only had defensive abilities that would counter his protection countering attacks. If say you had Absorb and decided to use that and pever had chosen Choke and Drain, you would be a gonner.

But pever didn't want another round of voting and told me if he couldn't defeat you, he would rather be killed than go through a lynch.

But either of you could have submitted wrong orders. pever could have omitted his Cloak or Protection feeling confident that you wouldn't attack him and you could have chosen to omit some of your abilities which would have lead to different results.

pever really needed his Master to take you out and I felt that he made his decisions without properly reading up on how the status was.

As Subotan noted, it was publicly known that Subotan had used Force Cloak. If pever had read properly the game thread and the QT, he would have known that Destruction was the tool to use against Cloak. And he would have known that taking out a Grand Master would most likely take two Sith.

All though some might like to think pever did as pever did because the Dark Lord of the Sith was named Subotan, I would like all of us to believe that pever just didn't have all the information he needed at the time he did as he did.
It really resulted in :daisy: hitting the fan, as I warned him about and also warned Subotan earlier when he probably contemplated the same.

We need to let this slide and attribute it to a rash decision based on poor information.

Diamondeye

05-19-2010, 13:57

Reading the Sith QT is very interesting!

I just reached this nice tidbit (by Niklas):
"Renata, when you read this after the game - sorry! :-D"

Hilarious :laugh4:

EDIT; And "Gah, why can't the town screw up again and reveal Qui-Gon?"
:shame:

pevergreen

05-19-2010, 14:09

He couldn't take you out because you had protection and only had defensive abilities that would counter his protection countering attacks. If say you had Absorb and decided to use that and pever had chosen Choke and Drain, you would be a gonner.

But pever didn't want another round of voting and told me if he couldn't defeat you, he would rather be killed than go through a lynch.
If pever had read properly the game thread and the QT, he would have known that Destruction was the tool to use against Cloak. And he would have known that taking out a Grand Master would most likely take two Sith.

So basically I had no chance, because he wouldn't chose that. Ah well, I knew it was a theoretical chance.

Yup, I didnt want to waste another 24 hours and die to a lynch...
I knew that destruction was the best tool against cloak, hence why I used it the first night against ATPG. I thought he would be expecting it the last night, so I changed it. At that point I didn't know/didn't realise he had access to my list of powers, so I thought by avoiding force lightning, he would plan for an attack that wasnt coming.

I figured if Subo couldn't kill him, I couldn't and I honestly don't think that I would have been the difference between ATPG dieing that night or not.

@ Sigurd: Would Subo & I have killed ATPG? If so, would it have gone to another day phase?

naut

05-19-2010, 14:12

Thank you Sigurd. :bow: Spending an equal amount of time as Jedi and Sith was interesting to say the least.

Cheers to my two Sith buddies, Niklas and Subo. I had a great time working with you two.

A tip of my hat to Renata --- always questioning, always suspicious.

Thanks ATPG for injecting some much needed light-heartedness when the game needed it most.

pever. You need to grow up. This is the last statement I will make on the matter.

Askthepizzaguy

05-19-2010, 14:34

Thanks ATPG for injecting some much needed light-heartedness when the game needed it most.

Light-heartedness?

*shakes loose long, flowing blonde hair, takes off Jedi Robes*

Whatever do.... https://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb225/askthepizzaguy/EPYC/575px-Young_Nomi-1-1.jpg ...you mean? :beam:

Andres

05-19-2010, 14:39

I'm so much better looking:

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/AaylaSecura.png

Beskar

05-19-2010, 14:47

I'm so much better looking:

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/AaylaSecura.png

Andres bedded me over PM's.

Askthepizzaguy

05-19-2010, 14:49

I like the way she grips the.... uh....

Anyways. Moving on!

Sigurd

05-19-2010, 15:18

@ Sigurd: Would Subo & I have killed ATPG? If so, would it have gone to another day phase?
Yes.. two Sith against a player would normally be too powerful. You would have 4 attacks against that player's two defences.

If the player used Cloak and Protection in addition to two defensive abilities, it could have been a tie. ATPG didn't have Cloak, so Drain or Choke as the last attack would have finished him off for certain.

atheotes

05-19-2010, 16:18

Congrats ATPG :2thumbsup: and the rest of the Jedi team ~:cheers:

Well played to all the Sith :2thumbsup:

Sigurd, thanks for hosting an excellent game :bow:. I had a lot of fun and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Askthepizzaguy

05-19-2010, 16:18

And the obligatory response to the quicktopic (http://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/GaLu2FpeS6LAk), which was nice enough to mention me some.... 91 times out of 487 posts.

I know it's not just my overpowering sexiness that has drawn your attention, boys... ~:flirt: So let's see what was on your mind.

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Post 1

02. Askthepizzaguy - Probably the most famous guy in the gameroom. Chatty to the point of never-ending ramblings, that are always either devastating analysis or lies that he's just pulled out of his bum. Very unlikely that he will make it off this ship alive, if either because we have to dispatch him, or because he's so scummy he'll get the chop.Famous? I don't know about that. Sasaki Kojiro is legendary... they made rules based off of him. I don't have any rules. :cry: I agree that making it off the ship alive was unlikely as all hades, though.

Post 71

Actually, ATPG will be a confirmed innocent after Beskar scans him tonight. How about making him your kill instead or (the random?) Andres?

72

I'll hit ATPG tomorrow.

94

ATPG - Soon to be Liquidated,

102

I would say that ATPG is a higher priority for a lynch than Beskar

103

Also, I'm quite certain ATPG will go down in a vote sooner or later.

138

We could go after ATPG, a Knight.

167

I'm tempted to kill ATPG this coming night. I've known for a long time that he's claiming Nomi Sunrider, and if he dies now then it might be spun as to be because he revealed.

175

ATPG is of course always an option. Thoughts?

176

I also think ATPG will get lynched eventually, thanks to conversion paranoia, mwahaha.Pretty good stuff so far. Glad I am always on your mind.... :wink:

Here's an example of pure awesome:
211

Don't let ATPG get to you. A lot of his "we" business is just carp and he's surely very well aware of that. Everyone is using "we", he's just trying to bait you, don't fall for it. You're not likely to gather enough votes anyway, despite psycho's convenient one.

212

I'm trying not to be bothered by it, but I have deliberately been using the word "we" in an attempt to cover myself, so I am a bit panicky.

214

Hehe, let that be a lessoned learned. Never do *anything* in a deliberate attempt to cover yourself, it's guaranteed to backfire. ;-)Yeah that's right. Who's your daddy? :laugh4:

230

What about ATPG? He appears to have so0mething against me, and if he dies tonight, I could dimiss it as WIFOM.

338

Tonight I'm going to kill johnhughthom or ATPG if your lynch goes through, he's made himself incredibly innocent.

363

ATPG - maybe die, maybe not, town is always reluctant to lynch himMore headaches, I see... but this is classic.

364

6 minutes and ATPG has just signed in. Arggggg!

The Argggg says it all. :balloon2: Heh. Moving on....

365

Split and TinCow/ATPG are definitely who we want to kill tonight.

377

I'm thinking Force Drain and Force Destruction could dispatch Pizza.

379

Ofc, if we kill DE and ATPG, then we don't need to block him, and we can block Tincow instead...

381

Since we know ATPG's abilities, we could also kill ATPG using drain as well.

382

So we can either try and incriminate ATPG, or you take the heat and don't die through Force Breath.

384

If we just manage to kill ATPG instead, then it's basically the same outcome you're hoping for, especially if we roleblock Tincow.

386

I honestly think we can take both DE and ATPG in one fell swoop

410

If no new recruit, then you kill pever. They lynch you once. Then you kill ATPG. Then win. =)

413

Perhaps it would have been better to simply have killed both ATPG and pever last night

444

I think I/we have to kill ATPG in combat.Never before have I seen a plan hatched from the beginning of the mafia game go unfinished all the way to the end. I was your "let's get him soon/tonight" murder for half of the nights of the game... the other half convinced I was lynchbait... sorta.

I guess from this quicktopic, you could say I was inside your head the whole time, tormenting you.... I'm honored you see me that way. :book:

I should expect to be murdered more often and earlier in future games then? :sweatdrop:

atheotes

05-19-2010, 16:45

Be more weary of who you trust next time; an ally foisted upon you rarely adopts your goals... look at TinCow in Inishmore or pevergreen here. You played well, nonetheless... so take stock in that at least. :3

What did Tincow do? :inquisitive:

Sasaki Kojiro

05-19-2010, 18:15

TinCow

05-19-2010, 19:27

This game was fun, even though I didn't have the energy to read the arguments and mostly just stuck my oar in randomly. Mafia recruitment can make the game interesting, but it's very tough on the town because the recruited player has had a number of rounds to appear town without even having to try. And you can see the conflicts between the recruits and the old mafia sometimes. I bet there's another mechanic that could work better for balancing it out.

The auto-recruitment in this game seemed a bit 'off' to me. However, I think Sigurd did something extremely interesting with the rest of the system though, something that deserves further discussion. I'm talking about the randomly acquired powers system. Essentially, this game started with only a single real pro-town power role: the GM. All other power roles were the product of random.org selecting the person and the power at some point after the game had started. It's essentially an unpredictably morphing role system. ANY player can theoretically become a power role if they are able to survive long enough. In addition, the random nature of the roles makes it impossible for anyone, town or mafia, to predict what kind of pro-town roles they will be faced with. It's possible there could be 3 investigators within a few turns of the game starting, or perhaps no investigators ever. Perhaps it's a doc heavy game, or vig heavy... impossible to predict. That impossibility makes for a lot of surprises for both town and mafia and gives a lot of leeway for people to pull off incredible stunts or bluffs. Psycho's fake Force Sight ability is a perfect example. A system like this also greatly encourages activity once it is understood, as the longer you survive in the game, the more likely you will get a role that is 'interesting' (a common complaint for townies).

I think there's a lot of room for tweaking in the system. For instance, I don't necessarily think it's a good thing that the last few players are all pretty much guaranteed power roles. However, I think the random evolutionary nature of the role abilities is very intriguing and has the potential to be as influential as Seamus' Capo advancement system.

Yaropolk

05-19-2010, 19:33

Great game overall, but I see no way how it could come down to anything except GM vs 2 sith at the end given the infinite automatic recruitment. Sith could have been AFK for a month, and the only way town could win was if on teh last round Sith turn against each other.

Sasaki Kojiro

05-19-2010, 19:39

To throw in some half-remembered psychology, to two factors that determine how much we remember enjoying an experience are how high the high point was, and how good the end of it was. An illusion of balance provides a great experience, but the memory of the experience is damaged when the illusion is revealed, and we think we didn't enjoy it as much as we did.

@TinCow: That system was very intriguing too. And I liked the rps form of attacks, and certain powers being stronger--it could make a nice addition to CR's update of the Seamus style system. Perhaps for 3 person doctor groups they would have one person pick rock, one paper, one scissors. Or something along that line.

ULC

05-19-2010, 21:28

Hmmm...I like the system for randomly gaining powers, but, as TC said, late game almost everyone is guaranteed a power role. What if we had a system were you are given extremely basic forms of standard powers that grow as you use them, and, that as your number or level of power increases, so does your chance to acquire newer powers decrease. The system could be set up so that a player could self-develop their own abilities based upon their own decisions, while limiting their all over ability to lock the game down.

Also, even if the universe is against the mafia in the late rounds and start's giving people abilities, it wouldn't be catastrophic.

Here, an example!

Every ability has 5 levels, from most basic to complex and extremely powerful. Take a possible investigation ability.

1st level could actually only reveals minor information based upon the games setting.
2nd level lets you watch another player to see if anyone uses an ability on them.
3rd level gives more information, but only as to whether a person is active that night
4th level gives alignment and role name
5th level gives information pertaining to abilities they may have

All levels could be cumulative, so being 5th level gives you all abilities. Each level has a 20% chance of success and adds 20% to the success of every previous levels abilities, so the first ability at level 1 would have 100% chance of success at level 5. Every person that helps you when using an ability adds a 40% increase in success.

However, every time you gain a new ability category, or gain a level in an ability category, you lose 10% of your chance to gain a new ability, from 100%. So, by level 5 investigation, you only have a 50% chance of a new ability category.

Now, the above is just an example, and numbers could be adjusted to however the host, setting, or balance sees fit.

Secura

05-20-2010, 00:09

What did Tincow do? :inquisitive:

He was foisted on the Aussie faction, gained the trust of YLC over two people that YLC had recruited of his own volition... and then proceeded to blame the demise of the Aussies on said two people.

I was always weary of the manner in which he joined the faction, but I couldn't really say anything due to the fact I'd been unrecruited. My point is, never fully trust someone who joins your faction through means that don't involve you directly picking them for recruitment. It counted against the Aussies in Inishmore, and counted against the rest of the Sith here.

atheotes

05-20-2010, 00:27

He was foisted on the Aussie faction, gained the trust of YLC over two people that YLC had recruited of his own volition... and then proceeded to blame the demise of the Aussies on said two people.

I was always weary of the manner in which he joined the faction, but I couldn't really say anything due to the fact I'd been unrecruited. My point is, never fully trust someone who joins your faction through means that don't involve you directly picking them for recruitment. It counted against the Aussies in Inishmore, and counted against the rest of the Sith here.

that was different because, I, as a kiwi recruited Tincow and we decided that it was best to get rid of the Aussies to stop them from being a hindrance for me. We just used you and Niklas as scapegoats to ward off suspicion from us. We had to do that to win the game (which we did) and it was part of our victory condition to out number the aussies. I got lucky by recruiting a mafioso, otherwise we would have lost because we would never be able to out recruit the aussies without raising huge red flags.

What pever did here was due to perhaps a misunderstanding of the victory conditions. While it sucks if you were his team mate, these things happen in games and it is best to look past it. :bow:

TinCow

05-20-2010, 00:38

He was foisted on the Aussie faction, gained the trust of YLC over two people that YLC had recruited of his own volition... and then proceeded to blame the demise of the Aussies on said two people.

I was always weary of the manner in which he joined the faction, but I couldn't really say anything due to the fact I'd been unrecruited. My point is, never fully trust someone who joins your faction through means that don't involve you directly picking them for recruitment. It counted against the Aussies in Inishmore, and counted against the rest of the Sith here.

To be clear, I was always playing for the victory of the role I was given. I was never an Aussie, I was a Kiwi and was recruited by atheotes. I destroyed the Aussies from the inside because it was necessary for a Kiwi victory. Please do not think that I was doing anything remotely like what occurred here. I always follow the victory conditions I am given by the host.

ULC

05-20-2010, 01:00

To be clear, I was always playing for the victory of the role I was given. I was never an Aussie, I was a Kiwi and was recruited by atheotes. I destroyed the Aussies from the inside because it was necessary for a Kiwi victory. Please do not think that I was doing anything remotely like what occurred here. I always follow the victory conditions I am given by the host.

I still think I could have done nothing agianst you - I was fated to be erased while you guys won. I knew you were the leak, but I expected pever to be more fair and thus let my suspicisions go of you.

TinCow

05-20-2010, 01:04

I still think I could have done nothing agianst you - I was fated to be erased while you guys won. I knew you were the leak, but I expected pever to be more fair and thus let my suspicisions go of you.

You were indeed in a nearly impossible position, but that was not my doing.

atheotes

05-20-2010, 01:16

I still think I could have done nothing agianst you - I was fated to be erased while you guys won. I knew you were the leak, but I expected pever to be more fair and thus let my suspicisions go of you.

if Tincow had not originally been a mafioso, the game would have been different and you wouldn't have felt the same way. As i said, i got lucky. :bow:

Askthepizzaguy

05-20-2010, 01:25

I seem to recall we've had situations where recruited players didn't take kindly to their new assignment before. Generally the rule is, once you're converted, you should do everything you can to help your team win.

However, in this very game I came up with a strategy as a townie to win the game for the town should I get recruited as the mafia. :beam: And I think that's both fair and legal.

I told Chaotix and Renata I was going to try very hard to get converted. So I contacted Niklas and pressed hard for my conversion round after round. The idea was, I would be the most likely recruit, and they would try to roleblock me right away. Then, they had to identify and destroy the recruiter, what we called the Sith lord. We didn't understand the mechanics of the game, or what the official names were, and we didn't know about the infinite recruitment thing. But the idea was, I'd be roleblocked and unable to recruit, and you find the guy that recruited me, destroy him, then destroy me, and we stop the never-ending cycle of the Sith. I would be the poisoned apple.

Sure, I'd lose the game, but I'd win the game for the town using a strategy I devised as a townie. So I wouldn't care. It would be a betrayal of my future self by my past self. I think I can handle being backstabbed by Askthepizzaguy. At least I saw it coming.

It was my solution to the never-ending recruitment of the Sith. Unfortunately it wouldn't have worked in THIS game, number one, and they couldn't pick me on purpose anyway. Still, it was worth a try... if I ended up being roleblocked as a Sith, in spite of the recruitment and recruitment, it still would have helped. Plus it gave additional reasons not to lynch me, which still directs the lynch toward someone else, improving the odds of hitting a Sith.

Choxorn

05-20-2010, 04:22

So, wait, as a Jedi Knight, could I have used two abilities on the night Subo killed me, or did I need to be a Master to do that?

I had Push, Deflection (Which I used), Grip, and Speed by that point. Deflection countered his Lightning, but not his Drain. The other three countered his drain, but not his lightning. So... yeah, I was just screwed unless I could use multiple abilities. :(

Awesome game, though, I must say.

Splitpersonality

05-20-2010, 04:38

I think I can handle being backstabbed by Askthepizzaguy. At least I saw it coming.

You sir are just.... I don't even know :laugh4:

Askthepizzaguy

05-20-2010, 04:54

I actually blackmailed Psychonaut, I was trying so hard to get recruited. :laugh4:

This was a round or two before I accused him. While YLC and Renata were formulating their case. I decided to try a more direct approach... contact a known mafioso and claim that I would begin a case against his partner very shortly unless I was recruited.

By then, the plan to block me after my recruitment was already shared with Renata and Chaotix. Check it out.

5/5/2010 6:21:43 AM askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Niklas @ CFC For me I have not been asleep yet
5/5/2010 6:21:45 AM askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Niklas @ CFC that comes soon
5/5/2010 6:21:48 AM askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Niklas @ CFC it is still dark here
5/5/2010 6:21:59 AM Niklas @ CFC askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) aye, figures
5/5/2010 6:22:03 AM askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Niklas @ CFC 6am yes, but not sunlight
5/5/2010 6:22:22 AM Niklas @ CFC askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) I don't suppose now is a good time to talk tribulations?
5/5/2010 6:23:47 AM askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Niklas @ CFC Not especially, but what did you have in mind?
5/5/2010 6:24:34 AM askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Niklas @ CFC also Psychonaut needs to stop dawdling and just recruit me.
5/5/2010 6:24:57 AM Niklas @ CFC askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) well, since I didn't actually play the first game, a lot of the mechanics are just a haze for me
5/5/2010 6:25:03 AM Niklas @ CFC askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) and yeah, I agree
5/5/2010 6:25:18 AM askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Niklas @ CFC haven't I proven myself yet
5/5/2010 6:25:27 AM askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Niklas @ CFC surely my lynchproofness is an asset
5/5/2010 6:25:35 AM askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Niklas @ CFC and I can get almost anyone lynched if I try
5/5/2010 6:25:50 AM Niklas @ CFC askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) yep, you're a star
5/5/2010 6:25:57 AM askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Niklas @ CFC So why am I not invited
5/5/2010 6:26:09 AM Niklas @ CFC askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) good question
5/5/2010 6:26:16 AM Niklas @ CFC askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) you should ask psychonaut
5/5/2010 6:26:51 AM askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Niklas @ CFC Should I instead bring up the fact that he claimed to have 2 defensive powers, then was investigate/drained and revealed to have none?
5/5/2010 6:26:59 AM askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Niklas @ CFC which happened 2 days later?
5/5/2010 6:27:26 AM askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) Niklas @ CFC Maybe he should recruit me
5/5/2010 6:27:51 AM Niklas @ CFC askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com (E-mail Address Not Verified) I'll be sure to tell him

So, I tried to implement the plan. That wasn't the only time I pressured him, but that time was when I threatened one of the active mafioso in the process if I didn't get what I wanted.

Good times. :beam: Too bad it never would have worked under this game's setup.

I made good on the case on Psychonaut threat though.