Futuramafia [Concluded]

[Winston Hughes]

Anyone been keeping track of who claimed what?

[Cuthillius]

So we have BSmith, El Barto and me as confirmed townies. Not that I want the responsibility, but we could just let the three of us decide by committee who to lynch, and policy lynch anyone who refuses. Thoughts?

i missed this post, lol

no

definitely not lol

[Dp101]

You want to say yay or nay to the proposal based on who we would take down? That's just voting by proxy.

Look, I'm not going to blindly agree with something unless I know who you are going for. Again, your targets could end up innocent, and I don't want to have you inadvertently force the lynch of a villager. We also get much less data on people from the lynch, as as you say anyone who disagrees gets lynched regardless of their reasons, so we can't evaluate arguments. It might work way better than I think it will, these are just some flaws I see right now.

[Dp101]

Anyone been keeping track of who claimed what?

I think the only live claims are Pizza tracker, General jailer, Quat Bender, and you with something.

[Cuthillius]

I think the only live claims are Pizza tracker, General jailer, Quat Bender, and you with something.

and chox mason?

[Dp101]

and chox mason?

Knew I was missing something.

[Cuthillius]

the thread is very quiet

[Winston Hughes]

GH/Monty/DP101

[Winston Hughes]

Or maybe it's you, Cuth.

Why have you been townreading me?

And who are your top suspects right now?

[Riedquat]

What I see from Reidquat's role and revealed victory conditions is that he's interested in the survival of robots. So, he's looking for them, and my guess is that most of them won't be a "threat to him", though to be fair, it can't be that simplistic, from a design standpoint. See: Killbots. Bender won't think a killbot is a threat to him because he's kind of a robo supremacist. Winston goes and claims to not be a meatbag, it looks exactly like he's trying to get Reidquat to understand where he stands. Then he immediately afterwards posts the word angle, in a manner really conspicuous. When I think of the robots on the show, I'm thinking Flexo, Bender, and Angle-yne, because they kind of form a love triangle. I imagine those roles would be in the game, and Winston's posts all confirm that to me. It's only now, because I'm being told to discount that idea, that it's being discounted.

I mentioned Winston being a vixen because I kind of wanted to nudge Reidquat in the right direction. Given the full claim and the lack of continued day kills, I don't think he's anti-town third party anymore.

Uhh... I didn't had a clue who angle-yne was till two seconds ago after looking at the wiki :P And for future reference if you need to hint something to me, being subtle doesn't work, just struck a brick to my face or something like that. About the threats to me, I'm not sure how it works but really believe if the target can kill is a threat, simple as that, if I hadn't revealed and a scum robot hits me at night or day, talking of the killbots, I would end dead, I don't have a scum-robot-killer immunity at all.

If Winston is a robot, good, if scum he goes down.

[Winston Hughes]

If Winston is a robot, good, if scum he goes down.

I'm all robot, baby.

[Riedquat]

was thinking about it last night in bed

Hahahahaha. Oh wait you’re serious. Let me laugh even harder.

[Riedquat]

I'm all robot, baby.

Well, do a favor to me and to yourself, survive the day and beg I survive two nights in a row to clear you... or not!

[Winston Hughes]

Well, do a favor to me and to yourself, survive the day and beg I survive two nights in a row to clear you... or not!

Yeah, that could be tricky.

[Winston Hughes]

GH/Monty/Cuth?

[Winston Hughes]

Can't imagine all of the scum have been scumreading me.

[Winston Hughes]

GH has been shady as hell with this claim. I've given him reason to worry that I might be able to catch him a lie, and has totally clammed up.

Monty and Cuth have been pushing the agenda for much of the game, but I can't remember either of them really sticking their neck out.

[Montmorency]

I really hope GH is blocking you tonight. You've gone full Palpatine.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I really hope GH is blocking you tonight. You've gone full Palpatine.

I still haven't decided, fwiw.

[Winston Hughes]

I really hope GH is blocking you tonight. You've gone full Palpatine.

You're still clinging to the idea I might be scum?

Really?

[Montmorency]

You're still clinging to the idea I might be scum?

Really?

Yes, the clearly-demonstrated alternative has too much evidence backing it up. I agree that you are Town, my lord. Please, use your wonderful powers to show us the light.

[Montmorency]

I mean, the dark. Or unlimited power, or whatever. We welcome the 10,000-Year Empire being formed in your name.

[Winston Hughes]

Yes, the clearly-demonstrated alternative has too much evidence backing it up. I agree that you are Town, my lord. Please, use your wonderful powers to show us the light.

How am I supposed to respond to this?

You've been calling me scum for ages now, but you don't seem to want to talk to me about it.

[Montmorency]

You've been calling me scum for ages now, but you don't seem to want to talk to me about it.

:confused:

[Winston Hughes]

:confused:

You and me both.

[Winston Hughes]

What do you think I've been trying to do, Monty?

[Montmorency]

I would have thought you were double-teaming the outsiders with Pizza. Good scum bad scum routine, but keeping it fluid.

[Winston Hughes]

Are you reading anything but the vote patterns?

[Montmorency]

Actually, I mostly read the interactions.

[Riedquat]

I still haven't decided, fwiw.

I really hope you do not decide to block me...


You're still clinging to the idea I might be scum?

Really?

Can't talk for him but I am :)

[Cuthillius]

Or maybe it's you, Cuth.

Why have you been townreading me?

And who are your top suspects right now?

I haven't particularly

I backed off from you that one EoD

I don't actively want to lynch you

I thought you had claimed the thing that chox claimed

and i suspect pizza/murska or gh/someone??

[Winston Hughes]

Actually, I mostly read the interactions.

And you think the interactions between me and pizza are w/w?

[Winston Hughes]

@pizza

Have we ever been scumbuddies again since the dream team NotW?

[Montmorency]

And you think the interactions between me and pizza are w/w?'

There weren't many of those, but yes, too wink-wink.

As I said, good scum bad scum, starting with El Barto's death:

With DP, Pizza went good scum (buttering him up) and you went bad scum (reading him scummy on the basis of the butter).

With Cuth, you were good scum and Pizza was bad scum.

With novice, Pizza managed both while you stayed silent.

Joint attack on Stork.

Reading each other very townie until just now, though Pizza is suspiciously fixated on his reads overall and seems to still find you town.

[Winston Hughes]

If pizza and I were scumbuddies, it would be nowhere near that straightforward.

[Montmorency]

Give me your imagining of a Winston-Pizza team here.

[Winston Hughes]

We'd never go real time like we have here.

We'd never make such an obvious association between us, especially in a game with unknown PRs.

We'd mostly either ignore each other or butt heads in a manner intended to create distance without ever really pushing each other into danger.

[Montmorency]

But Pizza is known for shuffling or turning upside down his metas as an explicit strategy, so why not pick just that here?

[Winston Hughes]

But Pizza is known for shuffling or turning upside down his metas as an explicit strategy, so why not pick just that here?

Because the strategy you're suggesting we've taken would be plain stupid.

[Montmorency]

Because the strategy you're suggesting we've taken would be plain stupid.

Why? Wagons on you both have repeatedly failed, you're both in a good position for tomorrow - the only worry you have is GH. Or should there be something else?

[Winston Hughes]

Why? Wagons on you both have repeatedly failed, you're both in a good position for tomorrow - the only worry you have is GH. Or should there be something else?

You're just mapping your imaginary scenario onto the gamestate. We could never have planned it like this.

[Montmorency]

You're just mapping your imaginary scenario onto the gamestate. We could never have planned it like this.

Exactly!

I didn't say you planned it, but that this is how it developed in fact and that this development makes sense with you two as partners.

[Winston Hughes]

Your problem is that I'm town.

[Winston Hughes]

And you seem determined not to see it.

[Winston Hughes]

If pizza is scum, he's spent a lot of effort doing a job on me. Not sure why.

[El Barto]

I'm all robot, baby.
Are you Egyptian?

[Winston Hughes]

Are you Egyptian?

No, but I was in The Bangles.

[El Barto]

That's so witty!

Actually, only by half.

[Montmorency]

If pizza is scum, he's spent a lot of effort doing a job on me. Not sure why.

Not in his posts, clearly. Since you probably aren't talking about your own actions, are you referring to night-kills?

[Winston Hughes]

Not in his posts, clearly. Since you probably aren't talking about your own actions, are you referring to night-kills?

I mean that if he's scum, he's put an awful lot of effort into both making me think he's town and creating connections between us in the minds of other townies.

[Winston Hughes]

Effort is the wrong word. I mean he's invested in it.

[Winston Hughes]

He's made bold statements of my innocence (on what, from my perspective, are exactly the right reasons to so), and has done a great job of looking townie to me every time I've interacted with him.

[Winston Hughes]

But it's pizza, so...

[El Barto]

But it's pizza, so...
So he can be a bit cheesy?

[Winston Hughes]

So he can be a bit cheesy?

You know that.

[Dp101]

8 minute warning for those who are posting things just before deadline, I believe that we were promised a list of night actions?

[GeneralHankerchief]

8 minute warning for those who are posting things just before deadline, I believe that we were promised a list of night actions?

Yes, I'm here and have it saved to my Ctrl-V.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Night actions:

N1: Pelican
N2: Pelican
N3: Pelican
N4: Al Sipsclar

Explanations coming if I live. If I'm killed, then you'll all see I'm innocent and it won't really matter, will it?

[Zack]

https://i.imgur.com/TVipIZa.jpg


Zack: "Oh, how awful. Did he at least die painlessly? To shreds you say. Well, how's the news station holding up? To shreds you say."

-------

"Windmills do not work that way! Goodnight!" - Choxorn

https://i.imgur.com/opc2kHl.png




Morbo

Player: Choxorn

Role: Morbo (https://theinfosphere.org/Morbo)

Faction: TOWN
-------

It is now Day Five.

Voting ends in: tunnel snakes rule

[Zack]

Alive: 12

Al Sipsclar
Askthepizzaguy
atheotes
Cuthillius
Dp101
GeneralHankerchief
johnhughthom
Montmorency
Murska
Pelican
Riedquat
Winston Hughes

---

Lynched: 4

d1 - spaceman98 - Leela
d2 - BSmith - Amy (can talk)
d3 - Stork - Professor Farnsworth
d4 - novice - Scruffy (can talk)

---

Killed: 6

n1 - El Barto - Flexo (can talk)
n2 - Visor - Hermes
n2 - seireikhaan - Larry
d3 - CrimsonFox - Zapp Brannigan
n3 - Newyn - Linda
n4 - choxorn - Morbo

[Dp101]

Well, at least we didn't lose a power role that could still do things.

[Zack]

DO NOT POST YET.

[GeneralHankerchief]

-edit- sorry zack

[Zack]

Now you can post.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Anyway, this is what I edited out of my above post.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Okay, so explanations.

N1, Pelican made that post that a lot of people openly commented was town and I figured he'd be a targeted player. Note that there was no kill that night.
N2, I was considering jailing CrimsonFox because he was toying with the idea of vigging me, but thought better of it and went back to the guy who was jailed the night there was no mafia kill.
N3, I was only able to log on 30 minutes before deadline and quickly submitted Pelican again without any thought.
N4 (last night), I went for a target on nobody's radar just to get some different information in.

[Montmorency]

What was that about, Zack?

[Montmorency]

Note that there was no kill that night.

El Barto died N1.

[GeneralHankerchief]

El Barto died N1.

Apologies, I was under the impression that he was vigged at the time and meant to say there was no *mafia kill that night.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Also, my N4 results count for nothing as I was unable to complete my night action as per feedback PM.

[Montmorency]

You're breaking my heart, General.

[Dp101]

Why, because he blocked your NK? :P

[GeneralHankerchief]

Look, you guys asked for night actions, I gave them. Somebody else can sort all this out and decide if I'm guilty or not (I'm not), there's a bottle of wine with my name on it right now.

[Riedquat]

:/ He is a robot, no surprises there...

[Montmorency]

Yes, actually, I am secretly the Serial Killer known as Pelican, and curse GH for foiling my plans every time! I was so despondent last night that I didn't bother to send kill orders in. Anyway, now that the heat is off I can go ahead and ransom either townies or scums at will. Do as I say, or you get the axe tonight.

[Dp101]

On a more serious note, I don't love GH's claimed actions. If he is mafia with Pelican (which doesn't seem that unlikely right now) then claiming to have jailed him 3 nights in a row is a pretty easy way to keep your claim safe, as well as the no result last night.

[Montmorency]

Too sloppy a claim for scum. Scum would give better distributions than that. A good tell would have been if he claimed to have jailed Khaan N1.

I wonder, assuming the Pelican blocks are true, if this has anything to do with Pelican going full-lurk.

By the way, didn't Pizza claim yesterday that he had been blocked? :inquisitive:

[El Barto]

By the way, didn't Pizza claim yesterday that he had been blocked? :inquisitive:
With these many rôles and the mafia having access to Mom's industrial might, I'd say they can do a lot of things.

What has that wife-stealing Bender Bending Rodríguez achieved last night, eh?

[Riedquat]

By the way, didn't Pizza claim yesterday that he had been blocked? :inquisitive:

Yes, GH debacle started there, when questioned by Atpg if he blocked him, Gh said it wasn't him.

That isn't sloppy, that is crappy at best... now I see the harm in revealing those actions...



With these many rôles and the mafia having access to Mom's industrial might, I'd say they can do a lot of things.

What has that wife-stealing Bender Bending Rodríguez achieved last night, eh?

Nothing at all, I've just learned he is a robot...

[Montmorency]

If GH and Pizza are partners, yesterday's play was perfect to make them both look worse. That can't be. The simplest answer remains that Pizza is lying and wants to spin this into a wasteful GH lynch.

[Askthepizzaguy]

So... Winston Hughes visited johnhughthom last night.

[Montmorency]

So they've been holding private sleepovers all game?

:on_lalala:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Vote: Montmorency

https://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb225/askthepizzaguy/My%20Kafka%20Dream_zpskzwe1brh.png

[Montmorency]

All Photoshop and no play makes Pizza a scummy boy?

If you're happy with that vote, then maybe you aren't scum. So keep that vote on me all day long, and go sit in the corner. Waiting.

[Montmorency]

Now seriously Pizza, how do you reconcile yesterday's claim of having been blocked with GH's reveal that he hasn't blocked you?

[Askthepizzaguy]

I take the third option. GH always resolves. You don't.

[Montmorency]

I didn't understand any of those sentences.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Gh wasn't blocking me last night because I could move.

He wasn't blocking Winston either, because Winston could move.

Winston wasn't blocking GH, because Winston moved elsewhere.

Winston isn't the mafia roleblocker.

GH should have blocked one of us last night, but he blocked neither. Why would he block no one last night if he's scum?

Let's say he's scum and not the roleblocker, just a goon. Why would the rest of the team not block anyone?

[Montmorency]

Winston wasn't blocking GH, because Winston moved elsewhere.

Why are you thinking in terms of Winston as blocker?

Firstly, you seem to be coming out of somewhere totally out of this world as regards GH or how you are portraying my attitude toward GH. I just want to know, why did you claim to have been blocked yesterday and what do you say now that GH says he couldn't have blocked you on Night 3.

Secondly, you seem very certain that there is a Mafia blocker in addition to GH as town blocker. Why is that?

[Montmorency]

Actually:


Also, my N4 results count for nothing as I was unable to complete my night action as per feedback PM.

This sounds like GH claiming to have been blocked.

What are you trying to do here, Pizza? Some kind of WIFOM using blatant "perfect information"?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Reidquat's claim leads me to believe he's not the mafia roleblocker. Still possible, just extremely doubtful.

Al wasn't blocking anyone the night I tracked him, because he went nowhere. If he's the mafia roleblocker, maybe he missed a night. Possible yet doubtful.

If Pelican were the mafia roleblocker, then GH should have stopped him from blocking me on N3, unless Pelican and GH are scum together. That still doesn't explain why no one got blocked except "GH" on N4. There's no way GH deliberately doesn't block me to get me to believe he's been blocked instead of me. He could just kill me.

The only way Askthepizzaguy is even allowed to track anyone is if the killer is a ninja and thus able to evade my tracking, because it's pointless to take that risk, or there's a godfather in play, or there's a power the scums needed to block more than my own: GH's power.

They could have killed any of Pizza or Winston or GH and chose instead to kill a person with no night action.

What has been presented to me as a straightforward choice is nothing of the sort.

The suggested configuration of all the town powers checking each other, tells me that there was a design in place. I'm supposed to arrive at a certain conclusion, and it's supposed to be really obvious. And even if I didn't arrive at it, if the focus is on GH, Winston, and Pizza, odds are still really really good a townie gets lynched. Plus I've got like 8 live players who want to lynch me. So it doesn't really matter.

Now, if that was all I had to go on, I'd be really stumped as to who was messing with me. I'd suspect the people who suggested specific actions, since they were designed to lead to this conclusion, but it would only be a hunch.

But it's not hard to piece together who was messing with me. You suggested the plan that would have led to no definitive conclusions and simply Winston-GH-Pizza suspecting each other. Your votes led to the town powers getting outed in the first place. The way you're driving the discussion right now.


If GH and Pizza are partners, yesterday's play was perfect to make them both look worse. That can't be. The simplest answer remains that Pizza is lying and wants to spin this into a wasteful GH lynch.

And the narrative you're spinning about GH is inconsistent. If GH is a wasteful lynch, then you think he's town. You say similar things in the posts prior.

I vote you immediately afterward, but then you say this:


Now seriously Pizza, how do you reconcile yesterday's claim of having been blocked with GH's reveal that he hasn't blocked you?

I can't. Not with the information I have. But I also refuse to believe GH does nothing with his blocker power last night, unless I would have been unable to catch the killer altogether, so there's no risk to the scums to leave me alive or not block me.

If I am no risk to the scums, then I am bait.

You are using me as bait while simultaneously trying to get me to lynch someone you say is town.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Jailkeeper prevents townies from using their own powers. Vig can shoot townies. Tracker finds and suspects town power roles, yet cannot find a killer.

There was a day kill. I couldn't possibly track such a thing. The town vig shooting someone, if I track that person, I try to get him lynched.

All of the above can be roleblocked or evaded and all of the above can harm their own team.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Zack

Well done.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Now here's the stone cold stunner:

It was either naive, or PIS, to expect that I'd even get a tracking result at all. Why would anyone assume that?

It's possible, but not bloody likely if it were that straightforward.

[Montmorency]

A lot of irrelevant verbiage that doesn't come close to addressing the following likely course of actions:

I am town, I think GH is town, I offer you a way to prove your townieness based on your claims. You refuse. You block or have blocked General Hank (since you are the one suddenly pushing the idea of Mafia roleblocker).

Die. Vote: Pizza

[Askthepizzaguy]

It's a damned good thing we refused, btw.

We would have learned jack and shit if we played along. Which was the entire point of the suggestion.

[Askthepizzaguy]

GH and Pizza can have tonight to 'work their magic'. Should tell us a few things, if GH agrees to jailkeep Pizza, and Pizza agrees to track GH. If Pizza himself is town, then he should give an honest account:

[snip, etc]

I strongly recommend GH and Pizza follow this plan.

Easiest way to prevent both roles from being useful.

[Montmorency]

Only if someone works to prevent GH from using his power, while also covering for himself and his partner.

Sounds like a certain jabroni here.

I agree with one thing: you played right into the trap. If you thought this would be some kind of Hail Mary to throw people off your evil behavior throughout, then I believe you are wrong, sir. I accounted precisely for this Pizza wildcard eventuality. That's why you have no choice now but to flip-flop onto me. It's why you couldn't kill GH at night.

Prepare for destruction.

[novice]

Why didn't you say this during the day?

Pizza, why didn't you point out the flaws in Monty's plan when he suggested it?

[novice]

Jailkeeper prevents townies from using their own powers. Vig can shoot townies. Tracker finds and suspects town power roles, yet cannot find a killer.

There was a day kill. I couldn't possibly track such a thing. The town vig shooting someone, if I track that person, I try to get him lynched.

All of the above can be roleblocked or evaded and all of the above can harm their own team.

It does fit nicely.

---

Pelican's townieness and activity has been evolving in the wrong direction. It's easier for scum to appear town on day 1 than on day 4.

[novice]

Monty, I mentioned a few town tells on you earlier. I can't remember you commenting on them. Did you?

[Montmorency]

It does fit nicely.

What did you take from that post? I couldn't find a coherent point to it.



Monty, I mentioned a few town tells on you earlier. I can't remember you commenting on them. Did you?

I'm supposed to comment on them? I remember you mentioning admitting factual inaccuracies, can you iso the posts?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Pizza, why didn't you point out the flaws in Monty's plan when he suggested it?

At the time, I was busy looking at people's activity levels. It also was just a suggestion, not a plan that had any backing.

[Montmorency]

It also was just a suggestion

Yes, normally you comment on suggestions. Unless you don't want to be tied to a response for plausible deniability. :yes:

[novice]

Novice, I warn you that I will lynch you over GH any time.



I'm supposed to comment on them? I remember you mentioning admitting factual inaccuracies, can you iso the posts?

Not necessarily, and it's not important now. I had a feeling you were tiptoeing around me so you could vote me based on the first quote. But you never actually voted me, so idk.

[Montmorency]

No, I was saying if it came to a decision between you and GH I would vote to lynch you (i.e. thunderdome). In the end, I also went after Winston, but that didn't turn out well.

[novice]

On a more serious note, I don't love GH's claimed actions. If he is mafia with Pelican (which doesn't seem that unlikely right now) then claiming to have jailed him 3 nights in a row is a pretty easy way to keep your claim safe, as well as the no result last night.

So you're killing GH next, right?

[Montmorency]

So you're killing GH next, right?

Is that an insinuation that DP101 is mafia, or an exhortation to lynch GH? I disagree either way.

[Murska]

So what did Winston do?

[Askthepizzaguy]

It takes 2 and a half hours to read this thread if you start from the beginning, and that's only if you put everyone who isn't alive on ignore mode first.

Five lynches left. My suggestion:

1. Lynch Monty
2. Lynch Cuth, Murska, atheotes any order.
3. Final round: Lynch any claimed power role still alive, or DP101.

I shall form my coalition out of completely awol players, Reidquat who isn't even a townie, GH and WH, or whoever agrees.

[Cuthillius]

Meh. I still don't like Pizza, but Monty's reaction to that was bad.

Vote:Montmorency

[Winston Hughes]

Going to be a busy weekend, but I should be around for a while tomorrow evening.

Given the potential it has to complicate things, I'm going to give a full claim now so you all have time to process it before eod:


You can't just have your characters announce how they feel... that makes me feel angry!


https://i.imgur.com/wIuMV1M.png


Robot Devil



Player: Winston Hughes

Role: Robot Devil (https://theinfosphere.org/Robot_devil)

Faction: TOWN


Team Victory Conditions:

The Town achieves victory based on its ability to achieve the goals listed below.

- The Mafia are eliminated.

- All hostile Third Parties are eliminated.

- At least one member of the Town survives the game.


Abilities:

Robot Devil (Robot Scan). At night, target another player to determine whether or not they are a robot.

Beelzebot (Partial Immunity). No robot can carry out a night action against you.


-----


If you have any questions, ask me privately.

:2thumbsup:N1: Al Sipsclar - robot
N2: Murska - not robot
N3: GH - robot
N4: john - robot

[Riedquat]

It takes 2 and a half hours to read this thread if you start from the beginning, and that's only if you put everyone who isn't alive on ignore mode first.

Five lynches left. My suggestion:

1. Lynch Monty
2. Lynch Cuth, Murska, atheotes any order.
3. Final round: Lynch any claimed power role still alive, or DP101.

I shall form my coalition out of completely awol players, Reidquat who isn't even a townie, GH and WH, or whoever agrees.


:laugh4::laugh4: Good plan! Let me think about it! :laugh4:

[Dp101]

So you're killing GH next, right?

That was the plan at the time. I might have to reevaluate after the pizza-Monty thing.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Alright, I think we need to get the ball rolling. I had three successful jailkeeps in a row against Pelican. I move off him on Al Sipsclar and suddenly he avoids my prison. Either somebody actively impeded me (and usually a JK has priority), or it was a passive ability on Al Sipsclar's part.

Vote: Al Sipsclar

[Riedquat]

Going to be a busy weekend, but I should be around for a while tomorrow evening.

Given the potential it has to complicate things, I'm going to give a full claim now so you all have time to process it before eod:


You can't just have your characters announce how they feel... that makes me feel angry!


https://i.imgur.com/wIuMV1M.png


Robot Devil



Player: Winston Hughes

Role: Robot Devil (https://theinfosphere.org/Robot_devil)

Faction: TOWN


Team Victory Conditions:

The Town achieves victory based on its ability to achieve the goals listed below.

- The Mafia are eliminated.

- All hostile Third Parties are eliminated.

- At least one member of the Town survives the game.


Abilities:

Robot Devil (Robot Scan). At night, target another player to determine whether or not they are a robot.

Beelzebot (Partial Immunity). No robot can carry out a night action against you.


-----


If you have any questions, ask me privately.

:2thumbsup:N1: Al Sipsclar - robot
N2: Murska - not robot
N3: GH - robot
N4: john - robot

:inquisitive: So... you believed me or not? I had already revealed john was a robot, why did you need to scan him again?

[Winston Hughes]

:inquisitive: So... you believed me or not? I had already revealed john was a robot, why did you need to scan him again?

I totally missed that.

[novice]

Alright, I think we need to get the ball rolling. I had three successful jailkeeps in a row against Pelican. I move off him on Al Sipsclar and suddenly he avoids my prison. Either somebody actively impeded me (and usually a JK has priority), or it was a passive ability on Al Sipsclar's part.

Vote: Al Sipsclar

Or someone blocked you, like they blocked Pizza?

---

Ghost vote: Monty

[Dp101]

Vote: Montmorency

[Dp101]

Tally as of post 2368:

Lynch votes
3 votes: Montmorency (Askthepizzaguy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053716708#post2053716708), Cuthillius (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053716760#post2053716760), Dp101 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053716802#post2053716802))
1 votes: Askthepizzaguy (Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053716722#post2053716722))
1 votes: Al Sipsclar (GeneralHankerchief (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053716778#post2053716778))

Voting history:
Montmorency

Askthepizzaguy

Montmorency

Al Sipsclar

Montmorency

[novice]

Let's operate under a couple of assumptions here.

Assumption One: I am who I claim to be, a town-aligned Jailkeeper.

Assumption Two: I am a somewhat competent Mafia player on occasion.

Operating under the premise the the above two assumptions are true, let us further speculate on why I have not disclosed my actions to this point. It could be because I was softly trying to influence the town's direction in favor of, or away from, a particular lynch target, while still trying to preserve my anonymity. It could be because I was breadcrumbing my role in a long-term effort to first set up my role and then drop the hammer when I finally had information of worth to reveal. It could be because I have no information of value from the actions I've taken so far. It could be because I'm waiting for more people to chime in on the issue first. It could be because I believe the mafia, as it currently stands, will be better served to adapt and react to the information disclosed than town.

Three of the five possible scenarios are correct here.

Which three, GH?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Which three, GH?

The latter three. I didn't have any real information that I was comfortable with, wanted to hear from Pelican, and at the time the town was (and still is somewhat) running around like chickens with their heads cut off.

[Murska]

Tally as of post 2368:

Lynch votes
3 votes: Montmorency (Askthepizzaguy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053716708#post2053716708), Cuthillius (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053716760#post2053716760), Dp101 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053716802#post2053716802))
1 votes: Askthepizzaguy (Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053716722#post2053716722))
1 votes: Al Sipsclar (GeneralHankerchief (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053716778#post2053716778))

Voting history:





This looks a lot like a scum driven wagon to me.

[Riedquat]

I totally missed that.

Do you have a faulty cpu?


This looks a lot like a scum driven wagon to me.

Really? What makes you think that? :clown:

BTW Human, who are you?

[Al Sipsclar]

Alright, I think we need to get the ball rolling. I had three successful jailkeeps in a row against Pelican. I move off him on Al Sipsclar and suddenly he avoids my prison. Either somebody actively impeded me (and usually a JK has priority), or it was a passive ability on Al Sipsclar's part.

Vote: Al Sipsclar

Donbot, please. I'll pay you back as soon as you lend me some more money.

:laugh4: No, I'm a vanilla townie. I'm not going anywhere and not doing anything.
Vote: Montmorency

[Pelican]

(hey sorry for my absence in the last couple of phases; classes + Big Brother premiere sponged my time. I'm taking a break but I've still got about 10 pages or so to read, and wanted to know if there is anything I should be focusing on, any questions that directly involve me, etc...)

[Dp101]

Did GH's claimed roleblock on you for first 3 nights block any actions you tried to perform? Or are you Vanilla?

[Montmorency]

DP, why are you not voting Winston or Pizza given that their role claims have nothing to back them up and statistically one or both are lying? Did you not follow yesterday's events?

Al Sipsclar at least probably didn't follow due to lurk, but that's no excuse here.

GH, it's quite clear that Pizza's group (the one with the MAFIA ROLEBLOCKER per his own admission) blocked you last night, because my plan made it specifically disadvantageous to kill you.

[Dp101]

I'm voting you because the tone of your responses (I know I said tone reads aren't that great past D1, but what's life without a bit of hypocrisy) feels very much like scrambling mafia trying to respond to someone finally figuring them out, and pizza's arguments make more sense. I promise that if you are innocent I will go after Pizza and Winston next.

[Montmorency]

pizza's arguments make more sense

Help me through that one.

[novice]

I promise that if you are innocent I will go after Pizza and Winston next.

This is like the fourth time you make a promise like that. Why don't you reread some of the old wagons and analyze the vote swings, or do any other sort of scumhunting, instead of blithely assuming that people who argue always have opposite alignments?

[novice]

Help me through that one.

To be honest, Pizzas arguments are easier to follow. Maybe yours are better, but I think some spoon-feeding could be helpful.

[Dp101]

This is like the fourth time you make a promise like that. Why don't you reread some of the old wagons and analyze the vote swings, or do any other sort of scumhunting, instead of blithely assuming that people who argue always have opposite alignments?

I agree the others were hasty, but in this case I feel that this is a clear wolf vs town power play, and that there is no way both of them are innocent.

[El Barto]

A lot of irrelevant verbiage that doesn't come close to addressing the following likely course of actions:

I am town, I think GH is town, I offer you a way to prove your townieness based on your claims. You refuse. You block or have blocked General Hank (since you are the one suddenly pushing the idea of Mafia roleblocker).

Die. Vote: Pizza
He isn't the only one speculating about the scum having more than one ability, y'know.

This is like the fourth time you make a promise like that. Why don't you reread some of the old wagons and analyze the vote swings, or do any other sort of scumhunting, instead of blithely assuming that people who argue always have opposite alignments?
He could be scum, y'know.

[Montmorency]

Well, OK. Some of Pizza's material seems clearly irrelevant and incoherent to me, only there to take up space. However, if you think there's something crucial I fail to address, point it out.

First this, for completeness:


Gh wasn't blocking me last night because I could move.

He wasn't blocking Winston either, because Winston could move.

Winston wasn't blocking GH, because Winston moved elsewhere.

Winston isn't the mafia roleblocker.

GH should have blocked one of us last night, but he blocked neither. Why would he block no one last night if he's scum?

Let's say he's scum and not the roleblocker, just a goon. Why would the rest of the team not block anyone?

Because he isn't scum and scum blocked him? It's a nice rhetorical device to suddenly speak as though from perspective that GH is seen as scum, but it's more distraction than substance.

Here's Pizza's main attack post, Part I:


Reidquat's claim leads me to believe he's not the mafia roleblocker. Still possible, just extremely doubtful.

Al wasn't blocking anyone the night I tracked him, because he went nowhere. If he's the mafia roleblocker, maybe he missed a night. Possible yet doubtful.

If Pelican were the mafia roleblocker, then GH should have stopped him from blocking me on N3, unless Pelican and GH are scum together. That still doesn't explain why no one got blocked except "GH" on N4. There's no way GH deliberately doesn't block me to get me to believe he's been blocked instead of me. He could just kill me.

The only way Askthepizzaguy is even allowed to track anyone is if the killer is a ninja and thus able to evade my tracking, because it's pointless to take that risk, or there's a godfather in play, or there's a power the scums needed to block more than my own: GH's power.

They could have killed any of Pizza or Winston or GH and chose instead to kill a person with no night action.

What has been presented to me as a straightforward choice is nothing of the sort.

The suggested configuration of all the town powers checking each other, tells me that there was a design in place. I'm supposed to arrive at a certain conclusion, and it's supposed to be really obvious. And even if I didn't arrive at it, if the focus is on GH, Winston, and Pizza, odds are still really really good a townie gets lynched. Plus I've got like 8 live players who want to lynch me. So it doesn't really matter.

Now, if that was all I had to go on, I'd be really stumped as to who was messing with me. I'd suspect the people who suggested specific actions, since they were designed to lead to this conclusion, but it would only be a hunch.

But it's not hard to piece together who was messing with me. You suggested the plan that would have led to no definitive conclusions and simply Winston-GH-Pizza suspecting each other. Your votes led to the town powers getting outed in the first place. The way you're driving the discussion right now.

There was a design, but the one he outlines clearly isn't logical. If Pizza were really suspected by everyone, there would be no need to deal with him more than superficially. Winston, of course, had no specified part in the proposed trio and I was not aware of his role claim anyway. As for GH, he already had enough flak coming his way, and I was clearly a countervailing pressure to that. Under these circumstances, if I were scum I would just need to sit tight and wait for the mislynches. The real design, as laid out in thread - I hope I don't have to link the table, as it has appeared several times recently - was to limit Pizza's possible moves. The idea was, if Pizza was NON-town, then he would be forced into wildcard. If Pizza were town and GH were town, then clearly Mafia would have no problem regardless of what any of them did, especially if buying into the hypothesis of Mafia having their own blocker role. If Pizza were scum, however, then he could not continue acting without commitment as in previous phases. By drawing that attention to Pizza, associating him with a block power, then I made it so killing GH would reflect poorly on him, and the same for simply blocking him to keep him from causing damage. In other words, Pizza was locked into making a specific response to GH either being killed or being blocked, and in this case the best response would be to shift attention onto someone else.


You are using me as bait while simultaneously trying to get me to lynch someone you say is town.


If I were scum, then clearly there's no need for anyone to spin a fancy tale - I've been going after Pizza since Day 3 at least. As for making Pizza go after GH - why? I would want Pizza to go after someone else, to make him look bad, so that I could lynch them both separately. Pizza going after GH wouldn't be in my favor as it just leads to a dead GH. And the causal chain offered for how it would influence Pizza to go after GH in the first place is not well-conceived. If GH is not killed, and there is a Mafia block available, then obviously Mafia, no matter who they are, will prevent GH from acting. You could literally spin this into any possible scum-team configuration using Pizza's logic, making it worthless.


The simplest chain of events remains that Pizza is lying and that he is scum.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Elaborate web of deception that I fell for versus you simply spinning one after the fact. Which is simpler?

[El Barto]

Askthepizzaguy:


WH at 11 per day average total, but has very regular spikes in activity over and over, then absent. The spikes are at 34, 24, and 17, which is downward, yet still much more than the 9 per day average he started with. I also think all of this activity is above his baseline.
Why don't you check what those spikes in activity answer to?
For good old metal-assed me?

[Askthepizzaguy]

El Barto, given what WH said about his RL situation, I'm not sure activity levels are the way to look at Winston. I know I'm saying that after I went through the trouble of looking at them, but I was looking at anyone in the top half of the post count when I did it. He has a full claim and it can be judged on its merits, and he has game long behavior we can look at. Both should indicate more strongly than his activity pattern.

It's partly that and partly because it is 2am my time and I put a lot of hours into the game today while being sick.

If it's really important I can maybe take a look today, but I'd advise anyone else with time to try instead.

[Montmorency]

Elaborate web of deception that I fell for versus you simply spinning one after the fact. Which is simpler?

Uh, neither? Stop changing the subject.

[El Barto]

El Barto, given what WH said about his RL situation, I'm not sure activity levels are the way to look at Winston. I know I'm saying that after I went through the trouble of looking at them, but I was looking at anyone in the top half of the post count when I did it. He has a full claim and it can be judged on its merits, and he has game long behavior we can look at. Both should indicate more strongly than his activity pattern.

It's partly that and partly because it is 2am my time and I put a lot of hours into the game today while being sick.

If it's really important I can maybe take a look today, but I'd advise anyone else with time to try instead.
Oh, so you did go through the trouble of looking at them. What did he answer to? Did you notice anything?
Just a quick comment would suffice.

(OOC: Sorry, Winston, I'm not trying to be an arse)
-------------------
On other topics, do we have any other suspects here? Other than jht who'd never post more than twice a day even if the GM made him unlynchable and bulletproof for it, has anyone else dropped under the radar?

[Dp101]

I'm really sorry that I haven't been able to make stronger cases or think independently this game, and have basically been sheeping Pizza the last 2 days. I have found that as town I really don't know how to disregard someone's opinion when I'm pretty sure they are mafia, and thus keep being convinced by anyone that so much as posts anything resembling a case. I have no faith in any of my reads, which leads to me wanting to find new ones, and then I end up with no cases I believe in since I, again, keep reading cases that likely mafia post, because I have an irrational fear of losing the game after tunneling on someone who ends up town. Its funny, I'm pretty sure my town game is strongest early and weakest late, while my wolf game is the other way round. I just want to feel like I actually accomplished something this game. Thats why I keep making posts related to lynching other people if certain other people flip in particular ways, because I keep waiting for things to click, the wolves to be revealed, and a feeling of knowing something for certain. Instead, I keep lynching wagons and going along with whatever seems trendy at the time. I'm really less useful to the village alive than dead, because my vote is so easily swung the mafia might as well be directing it. Sorry for the kind of off topic rant, I'm just feeling really down about the game right now.

[Montmorency]

Right.

https://i.imgur.com/pH1PP3p.jpg

[Riedquat]

I'm really less useful to the village alive than dead, because my vote is so easily swung the mafia might as well be directing it.

Do not despair! I believe every townie paying a bit of attention to the game is feeling a bit like that, a great truth GH said, the town is running around like head-less chickens, and as clearly noted before I'm not even town and have the exact same feeling, only difference I don't run, I just walk around very slowly! ;)

It is day five, town with all the logic and scumhunting techniques didn't catch a single scum with exception of CrimsonFox who followed his own guts!

My guts tell me, Monty is town and GH is just a townie with a very faulty cpu or has a personal agenda of sorts! While Atpg and Winston are probably scum...

It feels like shooting in the dark and my programing forbid doing things like that...

[novice]

I reread day 1. Pelican sums up my impressions pretty aptly here:


Biggest wolf vibes are from Murska, ATPG, and Montmomrency:

Murska and ATPG both potentially lying low. I know this accusation could apply to a lot of people (yours truly included) but these two actually feel restrained based on my expectations. Murska's Cuthilius vote also sticks out as especially weird to me. As for Montmomrency, I really don't like the super general posts inserted in the midst of all the action. Did he actually give any comments on what was actually going on in thread or was it all filler so he could look like an active contributor without having to risk anything?

Other stuff:

I was unimpresed with GH sheeping Cuthilius onto me, and this post actually shows that he went back and read my exchange with Cuthilius where I IMO refuted his case, and GH still kept his vote on me.

I have Barto as null for the most part, but after going back and checking the Cuthilius/novice exchange I think it's a good look on him, especially if the flips go correctly.

Cuthilius was indeed looking towny on the second half of D1, so:

cuth is almost certainly town, not sure what pizza and murska are doing there

Finally:

i feel less confident on spaceman given wagonments

still fine with him flipping

el barto dying tonight is good

clear out those wagons
Was this Visor breadcrumbing an El Barto vig shot? Need to read Visor's day 2 to see if he breadcrumbed more.

To be continued, multiquote limit is forcing me to post.

[novice]

I'm really sorry that I haven't been able to make stronger cases or think independently this game, and have basically been sheeping Pizza the last 2 days. I have found that as town I really don't know how to disregard someone's opinion when I'm pretty sure they are mafia, and thus keep being convinced by anyone that so much as posts anything resembling a case. I have no faith in any of my reads, which leads to me wanting to find new ones, and then I end up with no cases I believe in since I, again, keep reading cases that likely mafia post, because I have an irrational fear of losing the game after tunneling on someone who ends up town. Its funny, I'm pretty sure my town game is strongest early and weakest late, while my wolf game is the other way round. I just want to feel like I actually accomplished something this game. Thats why I keep making posts related to lynching other people if certain other people flip in particular ways, because I keep waiting for things to click, the wolves to be revealed, and a feeling of knowing something for certain. Instead, I keep lynching wagons and going along with whatever seems trendy at the time. I'm really less useful to the village alive than dead, because my vote is so easily swung the mafia might as well be directing it. Sorry for the kind of off topic rant, I'm just feeling really down about the game right now.

I also disliked Dp on day 1, also upon reread. But it would be incredible for scum to make posts like the one above though, perfectly describing the current town mindset.

Don't despair, Dp. Try rereading a random part of the thread, everything reads differently with the benefit of hindsight and knowing people's alignments.

[novice]

Over to night 2 now.


- Al will always vote for me when he has the chance, especially on D1. I should really remember that and just begin to vote him too. It would save on trying to be cute with D1 votes.
If this is a thing we can write off Al's day 1 as null.


Also, keeping track of all the information can be a bit of a pain in the, er, ass.
I didn't realize quite how early ATPG breadcrumbed his role. His tracking of Winston on N4 also demonstrates it, but it seems clear that if ATPG is scum, scum have a tracker.


takhsis getting that role is the worst thing imaginable
This was Visor's first post on D2. Not sure if it fits with Visor as vig, but I rerealize now that Visor as vig makes little sense anyway since he would've gone after CrimsonFox then.


Checking in.

I agree that Barto probably wasn't a mafia kill due to him being lynchbait.

Checking out, 'night all.
This was GH's first post after ostensibly jailing Pelican and seeing just one kill, which he believed not to be a mafia kill. Personally I would have looked into Pelican at this point.

Reread up to post 640.

[novice]

I read up to post 720. The D2 ATPG flood is less impressive on reread. He's maneuvering to lynch me and Cuthilius.

[novice]

And BSmith.

[novice]

Hmmm.... Unless I'm mistaken, it was Visor's Rise o' Teh Snek Cult (http://"https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?151176-Rise-of-The-Snake-Cult-Concluded). Got mowed by winston on the 2nd day. :laugh4:


Anyways, I'm starting to wonder if I didn't psych myself out on Fox. My initial gut still says he's too brazen to be mafia. But, then again, I've always said that the best way to play scum roles is to do that which the gut wouldn't believe. Another part of me wants to lynch him just to hopefully reduce the postcount a bit so I don't have so much catching up to do after work. :shifty: But mostly, now I'm really not liking this flip flopping on your potential role. To reiterate Barto: Are you a vig, or are you not? That claim towards the end of the round... as I said earlier, brazen, especially with possible mafia buds to bus you. But, if you're neutral/independent, then that makes a lot more sense. Screw it,

Vote: CrimsonFox

Other notes: yeah sorry to say it, folks who aren't too familiar with, but I'm just seeing monty here. Now that doesn't mean too much, Monty's quite consistent in his own inconsistent way, if that makes any sense. Not a preferred target to lynch.

Pizza is... .decidedly quiet this game, despite his earlier run of posts. At least, based on what I'm used to. Old me would be very suspicious of this, but new me is a bit more lenient on the "rl gets in teh way" excuse than old me. Still, mild suspicion.

Seeing some suspicion lobbed at Cuth. Not totally sure why. Am I missing something?
Also, hooray, I don't have to throw a tirade about LoverBoy GeneralHankerchief being randomly bandwaggoned on the first or second day! :balloon:

At least one and probably exactly one out of Cuth, Pizza, Monty, GH is scum. Low posting scum tend to make sure they discuss at least one scum buddy.

[novice]

My interpretation of Khaan's post is that he's defending his buddy Monty (who had 4 votes at the time), shading Pizza, and fishing for a Cuthilius lynch. GH possible second scum buddy.

[Murska]

Vote: ATPG once again.

[atheotes]

Pelican - are you VT? yes or no would suffice.

[atheotes]

What is the point if Winston's ability? Catch somebody lying about their role?
IIRC, We still dont know who wa responsible for the day kill. I think it must be a another robot.
I also think that a robot is part of the scum and possibly responsible for the day kill.

[GeneralHankerchief]

No longer pushing me heavily, atheotes? What changed?

Oh right, it's no longer politically expedient to get me lynched.

Vote: atheotes

[novice]

Tally as of post 2403:

Lynch votes
4 votes: Montmorency (Askthepizzaguy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053716708#post2053716708), Cuthillius (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053716760#post2053716760), Dp101 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053716802#post2053716802), Al Sipsclar (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053716821#post2053716821))
2 votes: Askthepizzaguy (Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053716722#post2053716722), Murska (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053716877#post2053716877))
1 votes: atheotes (GeneralHankerchief (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053716882#post2053716882))

Voting history:
Montmorency

Askthepizzaguy

Montmorency

Al Sipsclar

Montmorency

Montmorency

Askthepizzaguy

atheotes

[Murska]

I feel Pizza, as town, would not be so terribly and consistently wrong without taking a good hard look at his assumptions and priorities.

[Cuthillius]

Sorry about not being around yesterday.

I did think about the game a little bit, and realized that i would be very angry at myself if we lynched monty over pizza, unless he's a wolf

and tbh i think pizza's way wolfier than monty overall

vote:Pizza

augh now i want pizza

[Winston Hughes]

vote: pizza

The more I think about it, the less sense it makes that townpizza tracked me last night. The whole point of his role is either to catch people killing or to catch them in a lie. But how was either of those ever going to happen last night after he made it so obvious that he was going to target me? If he'd been tunnelling me like Monty or something, then it might have been a bit more plausible, but not when he's been calling me lock town for pretty much the whole game.

Incidentally, did pizza ever get around to claiming his other results?

[Winston Hughes]

Incidentally, it feels like some people may have missed my second (much more significant) ability when reading my roleclaim:


Beelzebot (Partial Immunity). No robot can carry out a night action against you.

It is possible that GH is lying about who he targeted last night. Blocking me would have made sense if he was scum (and much less sense if he was town), and since he wouldn't know why his action failed (as far as he would have known, it could have been a town roleblocker) he would have to have told the thread to avoid the possibility of being called on it.

[Winston Hughes]

Incidentally, I am quite fond of the word incidentally right now.

[Murska]

Unvote: Pizza

[novice]

Incidentally, did pizza ever get around to claiming his other results?


So... Winston Hughes visited johnhughthom last night.


Action failed.


Role

Character's quote.

Kif Kroker, tracker. I mined the quote online, because the quote that came provided for me was a Zapp Brannigan quote, so if I posted that, some fool would have thought I was claiming to be Zapp.

Al went nowhere, Newyn went nowhere. And if I get day killed at this point, you can start killing the scumbags voting for me sooner.

If I'm reading it correctly:
N1: Tracked Al, who went nowhere
N2: Tracked Newyn, who went nowhere
N3: Blocked/no result
N4: Tracked Winston to JHT

[novice]

Tally as of post 2411:

Lynch votes
3 votes: Montmorency (Askthepizzaguy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053716708#post2053716708), Dp101 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053716802#post2053716802), Al Sipsclar (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053716821#post2053716821))
3 votes: Askthepizzaguy (Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053716722#post2053716722), Cuthillius (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053716887#post2053716887), Winston Hughes (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053716891#post2053716891))
1 votes: atheotes (GeneralHankerchief (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053716882#post2053716882))
1 votes: Unvote (Murska (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053716895#post2053716895))

Not voting: atheotes, johnhughthom, (Murska), Pelican, Riedquat

Voting history:
Montmorency

Askthepizzaguy

Montmorency

Al Sipsclar

Montmorency

Montmorency

Askthepizzaguy

atheotes

Askthepizzaguy

Askthepizzaguy

Unvote

Unofficial timer: tunnel snakes rule

[Winston Hughes]

If I'm reading it correctly:
N1: Tracked Al, who went nowhere
N2: Tracked Newyn, who went nowhere
N3: Blocked/no result
N4: Tracked Winston to JHT

Man, I need to work on my reading. :shame:

[Askthepizzaguy]

I have powerful townie friends. They may not show up, but I assure you, if they did, they'd still vote for me.

[Askthepizzaguy]

How to tell if pizza is town- his suspects never get murdered and no one wants to lynch them, even the people who have said their names as being scummy repeatedly.

He has five suspects instead of 2.

[atheotes]

No longer pushing me heavily, atheotes? What changed?

Oh right, it's no longer politically expedient to get me lynched.

Vote: atheotes

:laugh4: I was hoping Pelican would have responded by now. Dont worry, you are still my top suspect.

[atheotes]

How to tell if pizza is town- his suspects never get murdered and no one wants to lynch them, even the people who have said their names as being scummy repeatedly.

He has five suspects instead of 2.

2? i am expecting 3. You sound confident though.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Not saying there's only 2 scums left. Saying it's bad diplo to accuse enough people that you absolutely have to be wrong on some.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Sorry about not being around yesterday.

I did think about the game a little bit, and realized that i would be very angry at myself if we lynched monty over pizza, unless he's a wolf

and tbh i think pizza's way wolfier than monty overall

vote:Pizza

augh now i want pizza

Cuth absolutely the number two suspect after Monty. This post passes everyone's sniff test?

I'm fine with being the lynch today. I have pork chops and a Patriots game to look forward to.

[Askthepizzaguy]

vote: pizza

The more I think about it, the less sense it makes that townpizza tracked me last night.

Posts read town. Timing of claim seemed town. Wasn't expecting another power role to even exist, and basically the only way for me to have thought you were scum this game was to catch you doing something suspicious.

Your ability set in your role claim seems third party or neutral, with the anti-robot power. I guess you could be the scum role cop or something.

If it wasn't for that role claim and witnessed action, I'd still have you as lock town.

[novice]

I'm fine with being the lynch today.

Do you think town has a chance if you're mislynched today?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Do you think town has a chance if you're mislynched today?

It's either 5 lynches or 4 lynches, depending on if Reid votes with us. Assume 4 to be safe.

We have time, but I'd prefer that a must-murder role like mine actually eat the necessary murder.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Eating/Game.

bbl

[Winston Hughes]

How convinced are you about Monty being scum, pizza?

[atheotes]

Posts read town. Timing of claim seemed town. Wasn't expecting another power role to even exist, and basically the only way for me to have thought you were scum this game was to catch you doing something suspicious.

Your ability set in your role claim seems third party or neutral, with the anti-robot power. I guess you could be the scum role cop or something.

If it wasn't for that role claim and witnessed action, I'd still have you as lock town.
I am so tempted to call pizza town for this post.

[atheotes]

Cuth absolutely the number two suspect after Monty. This post passes everyone's sniff test?

I'm fine with being the lynch today. I have pork chops and a Patriots game to look forward to.
I did not like that post either. I was anyways scum leaning on him. Just lower in the poe

[atheotes]

If Cuth was wolf, his drop in activity would coincide with town tearing itself on pizza v monty.

[Askthepizzaguy]

How convinced are you about Monty being scum, pizza?

Look at how he spun my reaction to what went down last night as a masterful plan on his part.

What kind of tone is that? Forget the nonsense words. What's the tone.

How is a townie at this point in the game feeling like a chessmaster, particularly with his track record?

[Askthepizzaguy]

If you're not sold on Monty, let's get Cuth.

Or just tell me who we're lynching that isn't me. I'll help.

If I'm scum, I'm outed by the claim. Lynching un-outed scum for me right now is fricking dumb.

[Pelican]

Did GH's claimed roleblock on you for first 3 nights block any actions you tried to perform? Or are you Vanilla?

I'm vanilla town. Still reading and processing, but I'll have a vote in a bit.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Winston, just unvote me. Don't even vote for anyone else.

Make the round competitive and see who votes where.

[Askthepizzaguy]

3 votes: Askthepizzaguy (Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053716722#post2053716722), Cuthillius (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053716887#post2053716887), Winston Hughes (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053716891#post2053716891))

Monty + Cuth both guilty. If people don't vote with them, this game gets a whole lot worse for them.

Come on, guys. I'm not putting myself into a position where I need to count on all the votes of the people who aren't here, and lose too many of the votes of the people who are here.

Take a look at Monty and Cuth on the other hand. How many living people have each of them alienated?

Does it look like a strategy?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Are either of them suspecting anyone that isn't already suspected by a bunch of other people who might be town?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Small footprints.

Stork had a small footprint, too. Khaan had a small footprint.

I got big honking gorilla feet this game and I've stepped on everyone's toes.

Does it seem right that Monty and Cuth would have small footprints right now? Is that their MO?

[Askthepizzaguy]

It's just halftime. We could own the second half of this game. I just need my team to show up.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Look at the cases I made on townies and the reasons I used.

Was I solving, or killing townies on purpose? I have a bad track record but it's one you can read for intent. No one has a good record right now, and that's one of the arguments being used to lynch me.

[Cuthillius]

I don't have a small footprint. I'm also not running around accusing half the game. I see a number of possible worlds, and I really don't know what to make of this game.

I'm willing to sheep you one more time, though, since we do have time left.

vote:montmorency

Also I was otherwise occupied yesterday and completely forgot about this game for the most part

[novice]

Dp101, are you around?

[Dp101]

Yup.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Monty's basically outed by his behavior. Who are two people you suspect who aren't outed?

[Askthepizzaguy]

NETA

What are the possible worlds?

[Pelican]

Very happy to see that there is finally some support for lynching Pizza. I thought I was going to continue to have my case totally ignored and have to sit and play "how scummy can Pizza get without anyone wanting to lynch him." It's been frustrating not getting much support here and I hope we can finally resolve this today.

So a resounding vote:Pizza from me.

Other than that:

I think someone asked me about Winston at some point, and for the most part I haven't particularly read Winston one way or another. The only thing that has ever stuck in my mind about Winston was his placeholder vote on Ried when Ried was a leading wagon; that was a slight wolf ping. But recently I'm seeing a resonably town-ish mindset and I like the claim.

People I'm not liking, besides Pizza, are Al Sipsclar and Cuth. Cuth's investment in solving the game seems to have been in decline once he was done tunneling Stork. Possibly a wolf struggling to build a case on another target? If Pizza does flip town, I'd look at Cuth next. Al Sips is straight up hiding. Vote today looks kinda bad if Pizza is scum.

I don't know what I'd get from a Monty flip, necessarily, and I don't really think he's a wolf at this point. But if Pizza flips town, I'll have to reevaluate.

Umm...


I think that's everything for now. I have the feeling I'm missing something important but my thoughts are still a little scattered.

[Pelican]

Oh wait, Cuth is off of his Pizza vote? Let's go out on a limb then and Cuth Pizza and Al Sips are the mafia team. That's my best guess as of now. Please, let's lynch Pizza.

[Dp101]

Monty's basically outed by his behavior. Who are two people you suspect who aren't outed?

Not sure who this was directed at, but will answer anyway. I still kind of want to lynch General, but his night actions have seemed to have realistic results, even though they could fit into a mafia agenda. Not that sure about the second, if you are right about Cuth then I have a pretty neat theory as to who the final mafia is (if there is another one after everyone else I have mentioned flips mafia).

[Askthepizzaguy]

Didn't you think Monty was scum at one point, Pel mel? What happened with that?

[Askthepizzaguy]

The number of people saying Cuth is scum keeps increasing, votes on Cuth remain zero.

[GeneralHankerchief]

For the record, I hate both of these lynch choices. I know, lolmafia maneuvering for brownie points afterward, but Pizza and Monty are pretty much my two biggest townreads at this point for a couple of reasons and it's my belief that the mafia are just laughing their butts off right now and have been for the entire dayphase.

I really, really want there to be a third option.

[novice]

I am Nixon, if full character claims is what you wanted.


Yeah, it isn't a role claim, I don't think the characters matter. Unless they do, in which case mine is here for future reference.

What is your role, or are you not willing to claim that at this point?

[Askthepizzaguy]

For the record, I hate both of these lynch choices. I know, lolmafia maneuvering for brownie points afterward, but Pizza and Monty are pretty much my two biggest townreads at this point for a couple of reasons and it's my belief that the mafia are just laughing their butts off right now and have been for the entire dayphase.

I really, really want there to be a third option.

Look at where Cuth said he thought I was way scummier than Monty, then flipped his vote up.

If we're both town somehow, he's literally always scum.

[Dp101]

I thought my "why don't you lynch me" post I made made it pretty clear I was vanilla.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Sorry about not being around yesterday.

I did think about the game a little bit, and realized that i would be very angry at myself if we lynched monty over pizza, unless he's a wolf

and tbh i think pizza's way wolfier than monty overall

vote:Pizza

augh now i want pizza

No Monty posts in between


I don't have a small footprint. I'm also not running around accusing half the game. I see a number of possible worlds, and I really don't know what to make of this game.

I'm willing to sheep you one more time, though, since we do have time left.

vote:montmorency

Also I was otherwise occupied yesterday and completely forgot about this game for the most part

This is some townie solving right here.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Look at where Cuth said he thought I was way scummier than Monty, then flipped his vote up.

If we're both town somehow, he's literally always scum.

Would you be willing to switch your vote?

[Askthepizzaguy]

If you think he's scum, Pelican, prove it with your vote.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Would you be willing to switch your vote?

Yeah. Monty can keep for one day.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Okay, let's do this.

Vote: Cuthilius

[Askthepizzaguy]

Vote: Cuthillius

[novice]

I thought my "why don't you lynch me" post I made made it pretty clear I was vanilla.

Yes, you did.

[Dp101]

Still think his D1 claim that I am lock town was too premature to be a mafia move, I don't think I will join you on him yet.

[Cuthillius]

I'm not scum.

[novice]

Tally as of post 2458:

Lynch votes
3 votes: Montmorency (Dp101 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053716802#post2053716802), Al Sipsclar (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053716821#post2053716821), Cuthillius (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053716942#post2053716942))
3 votes: Askthepizzaguy (Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053716722#post2053716722), Winston Hughes (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053716891#post2053716891), Pelican (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053716947#post2053716947))
1 votes: Unvote (Murska (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053716895#post2053716895))
1 votes: Cuthilius (GeneralHankerchief (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053716964#post2053716964))
1 votes: Cuthillius (Askthepizzaguy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053716965#post2053716965))

Voting history:
Montmorency

Askthepizzaguy

Montmorency

Al Sipsclar

Montmorency

Montmorency

Askthepizzaguy

atheotes

Askthepizzaguy

Askthepizzaguy

Unvote

Montmorency

Askthepizzaguy

Cuthilius

Cuthillius

[Murska]

I've a gut feeling Vote: Al Sipsclar is scum.

I'll probably return to vote for one of the likely-to-pass wagons before I go to sleep though.

[novice]

Pizza and Monty are pretty much my two biggest townreads at this point for a couple of reasons and it's my belief that the mafia are just laughing their butts off right now and have been for the entire dayphase.

I really, really want there to be a third option.

What reasons?

If you all want the easy way out, just lynch Al Sipsclar and if he flips town, blame him for losing the game for town.

[novice]

X-posted with Murska. :laugh4:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Lynch votes
3 votes: Montmorency (Dp101, Al Sipsclar, Cuthillius)
3 votes: Askthepizzaguy (Montmorency, Winston Hughes, Pelican)
1 votes: Unvote (Murska)
1 votes: Cuthilius (GeneralHankerchief)
1 votes: Cuthillius (Askthepizzaguy)

Assume I'm never getting the three votes on me. Cuth's not voting himself, that's 4 who won't vote there. Murska unwilling to commit, Dp doesn't want to go there. Al voted his one time all round, so that's probably where it will remain. I could only get five on Cuth, and I pretty much need literally all five to make that happen.

So I'd need atheotes, johnhughthom, and Reidquat. Reidquat technically has no need to vote for anyone in particular.

GH, the tally won't cut it unless minds change.

[Pelican]

Didn't you think Monty was scum at one point, Pel mel? What happened with that?

My only real case against Monty was that he was being vague and general, and then he stopped being vague and general and started going after my top scumread, so I dropped it. He's not ruled out as a suspect, but stronger evidence has presented itself for other targets, so Monty's not a top priority for me anymore. Like I said, If you're town, I'll have to reevaluate.


If you think he's scum, Pelican, prove it with your vote.

I'd still rather lynch you, but if EOD comes and I still can't get the support, then I will settle for your scum pal Cuth.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Would you actually show up for this end of day?

[novice]

ATPG, you can sway Winston, and Pelican's other suspects are Cuth and Al.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Also pretty sure you're going to get the needed support to lynch me. Way to not take a bold stand.

[Pelican]

Murska, why did you take your vote off Pizza?

[Askthepizzaguy]

ATPG, you can sway Winston, and Pelican's other suspects are Cuth and Al.

I think Al's a compromise easy town lynch. I'm willing to compromise on my suspects, not merely change the order of the mislynches.

I don't know if Winston's swayable. I'll try, just in case.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I mean if it's Al 4, Pizza 4, I vote Al. But that's not gonna nab a scum, imo. The scums are here right now taking advantage of the fact that town is divided and couldn't agree on the color of shit.

[Askthepizzaguy]

It's numerically very difficult to lynch a scum this round, if only because of the number of townies with opinions that don't overlap.

I basically need the support of some of my own suspects just to get anything done.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I gotta vote Monty if another vote doesn't appear on Cuth before I go to bed, GH.

I'll give it 3 hours, maybe 4.

[Winston Hughes]

Started doing a little reading on the alternatives.

I thought maybe atheotes, but he actually looks pretty good in iso.

Al has given us so little to work with that it's very difficult to make any kind of call.

john is john.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Winston, I can't lynch a scum without your help this round. I need your vote on Monty if you won't go to Cuth.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Would you actually show up for this end of day?

Pelican.

[Winston Hughes]

Winston, I can't lynch a scum without your help this round. I need your vote on Monty if you won't go to Cuth.

Saying stuff like this does not help to convince me.

On Monty, I'm wondering why a scum would be so resolutely wrong about you and me. When either of us shows up town, he's going to look terrible. Unless the pair of you are pulling one of those insane bussing gambits (and this would be a pretty extreme version even for you), I just don't see the motivation for sticking his neck out so far.

On Cuth, I guess I could go there. I recall a few townie moments, but he's capable of the faking and the general flow of his posting doesn't scream town at me.

[Askthepizzaguy]

It doesn't matter if he looks terrible. By then, the body count will have been worth the trade.

[Winston Hughes]

It doesn't matter if he looks terrible. By then, the body count will have been worth the trade.

The body count in question is just one. And there's also the fact that keeping us as main suspects would give scumMonty good reason not to nightkill us, which is dumb given the threats our powers represent (well, mine doesn't represent much of a threat anymore, but it might have looked that way before I revealed).

What would make sense of it, I suppose, is Monty and GH being scumbuddies. At this point, I'm finding myself coming around to GH as the scummiest player remaining, based both on tone and actions. So I'm not entirely writing off that possibility. But you now seem convinced that GH is town, so I don't really know what to think.

[Askthepizzaguy]

The hardest argument is the one where I try to tell a skeptical audience that not only do I need them, but they actually need me.

In politics, it's hard to get a coalition of people with non-conflicting interests to even give a shit about one another's interests for long enough to get anything done, because the "no" faction has a simpler message. It's simpler, and it's always united, because saying no to the idea that we need one another can apply to pretty much any situation. And since the ideology is that simple, it's easy to keep like-minded people as friends.

Complicated ideas, contradictions, exceptions, that's harder. Townie work is harder and people get hurt along the way.

I'm trying to make that argument to a skeptical audience right now.

Monty's argument is pizza is scum, and that's all he's saying.

Cuth's argument, until a few moments ago, was pizza is scum, and that's all he's saying.

They have an easy argument and they don't even need to convince you. I can't prove they are scum, I can only ask you to look at their behavior. Post count high, actual involvement tapering off, actual footprint of suspects low.

They are giving you fewer agenda items to disagree with them on. It works, it's just crowd control. It's always crowd control, that's why I make the footprint argument.

People are intelligent on their own but as a group, it's so much easier to manipulate them, and all you need to do is be less disagreeable.

Come on, guys. This is the purest beating heart of me. This is the way I play town.

If you mislynch me today, as I know I said before, it's not over. But it's still two voices gone. And we're having trouble agreeing as it stands.

One of us can't help you tomorrow, maybe two. We have to get it together here.

If you have to lynch me first, then please, look at the size of the accusation footprint of those who remain. Not from here onward, in the past. Before this round and including this one.

And you will have to vote together, you can't just skip off on a suspect that you can quickly check the math and go, that's only ever going to get a minority of the votes, and won't beat the suspect that everyone agrees on.

You have to mind the tally.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?151262-Mafia-v-Cult-Concluded&p=2053685414&viewfull=1#post2053685414

^
This is what happens when you don't.

I don't know what else to say. I'm trying to be relatable and explain the gravity of the situation, but I've got all the charisma of Hillary Clinton this game and I've called half of you deplorable. I get it.

I'm still the best you've got on the chopping block. Get someone scummier in it.

[Dp101]

What relevance does the linked thread have? Just an example of you getting mislynched?

[Cuthillius]

It's numerically very difficult to lynch a scum this round, if only because of the number of townies with opinions that don't overlap.

I basically need the support of some of my own suspects just to get anything done.

And when I offer to follow you you tell me no you're scum and unvote the chap you were voting.

If you're so convinced about Monty, that shouldn't stop you from lynching him.

I want you to be town, and if Monty were scum and you were town that would be great.

Today my vote is at your disposal, as long as you don't tell me to vote myself and let me self-pres if needed.

[Askthepizzaguy]

What relevance does the linked thread have? Just an example of you getting mislynched?

Look at the players not voting. Look how it's 3 suspects with more than one vote.

At the time, I had named something like 4 people scum and 3 of them were, and I called their factions correctly. I got one wrong.

The one I got wrong, also got votes.

The townies that people agree to lynch will always get votes.

Townies aren't guaranteed to show up. And they aren't guaranteed to mind the tally and vote together when necessary.

[Winston Hughes]

Today my vote is at your disposal

I reckon pizza could have talked forever and not convinced me to follow him here, and yet with one short phrase you've done the job for him.

vote: Cuthillius

[Askthepizzaguy]

DP, I need your vote on this one.

[El Barto]

I don't know what I'd get from a Monty flip, necessarily, and I don't really think he's a wolf at this point. But if Pizza flips town, I'll have to reevaluate.
At this point there's no way in which Pizzaguy and Monty are on the same team. If either flips town, are you willing vote the other's matte organic ass into oblivion, no matter what?

For the record, I hate both of these lynch choices. I know, lolmafia maneuvering for brownie points afterward, but Pizza and Monty are pretty much my two biggest townreads at this point for a couple of reasons and it's my belief that the mafia are just laughing their butts off right now and have been for the entire dayphase.

I really, really want there to be a third option.
No lynch is always allowed.

[Winston Hughes]

I mean, seriously, Cuth....

If you're town, what the hell are you doing offering to sheep someone you were calling scum earlier in the day just so long as they don't lynch you?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Cuth is my number 2, I need GH's vote to get Monty down.

I need DP's vote to get Cuth down.

I'll do either one, but I have to have the support of the other person in both circumstances.

[Winston Hughes]

The only thing townie about Cuth's offer is how incredibly ill-advised it is as either alignment.

But while I can just about imagine a scumbag going there in desperation, the idea of a townie doing so is mindblowing to me.

[Cuthillius]

I mean, seriously, Cuth....

If you're town, what the hell are you doing offering to sheep someone you were calling scum earlier in the day just so long as they don't lynch you?

it's not a measure to keep him from lynching me

i could keep that from happening otherwise by actually making cases on other targets or something

i don't want to screw up and mislynch pizza again

i've done it many times

[Winston Hughes]

Can anyone step up and tell me that Cuth could actually do this as town?

[Cuthillius]

The only thing townie about Cuth's offer is how incredibly ill-advised it is as either alignment.

But while I can just about imagine a scumbag going there in desperation, the idea of a townie doing so is mindblowing to me.

my situation could be hardly called desperate, even if i was scum and nobody was bussing me

[Winston Hughes]

So why on earth would you offer to let him tell you where to vote?

[El Barto]

Can anyone step up and tell me that Cuth could actually do this as town?
I wouldn't bet my shiny metal ass on that, meatbag.

[Murska]

The people voting for the Monty wagon are horribly scummy too.

[Dp101]

Fine, fine. Vote: Cuthillius so I get to go down as the worst town in history rather than the second worst.

[Dp101]

The people voting for the Monty wagon are horribly scummy too.

This is the second time you have called that wagon scummy, care to explain why? Feels like mafia trying to either stop a mafia from being lynched or lay the groundwork for lynching everyone who participated in a mislynch.

[Murska]

(Dp101, Al Sipsclar, Cuthillius)

All of these people are terrible.

Vote: Cuthillius

[El Barto]

I could totally see Montmorency-Cuthillius-Murska as mafia.

Or at least two of thema nd the other simply blundering along -can we countenance a four-member mafia team in only twenty players?

[Cuthillius]

Al Sipsclar
Askthepizzaguy
atheotes
Cuthillius
Dp101
GeneralHankerchief
johnhughthom
Montmorency
Murska
Pelican
Riedquat
Winston Hughes

i think this chart accurately sums up my feelings right now

the only ones i can draw a good connection between are purple and even then those hinge on pizza

if pizza green gh still could be red but if pizza red gh almost certainly also

greys are neutral, ath is slightly lighter because i thought he's had a few towny posts

DP is lock town in my books

Pelican had good early posts, less so since d3 or so