Large Mafia Game Futuramafia [Concluded] [Archive] - Page 12

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Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 12:14

I see Pizza as town because his little mental breakdown while I was sleeping didn't feel like mafia. Murska is again because of his odd comments on the abortive Monty wagon yesterday, and a general scummy feel from his posts. If pizza is mafia then I want to say mafia are Murska Monty GH and maybe you, but past the first 2 that list is uncertain.

I was in a manic state yesterday. I'm bipolar, and for the past 2 weeks or so I've been at a low point where I didn't want to do a whole lot.

So yesterday, I was at an unnatural high point. Then I wanted to play M2 for the first time in forever.

Last night I had dreams that I can remember for the first time in a long while, and I feel like... normal today.

Not game related, hope that explains that.

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 12:17

Pizza should have been lynched by now theory is a great way of not needing to state why I'm scummy when I'm not scum and haven't been scummy.

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 12:19

I would note that the only way Town is doing this poorly is that someone has been actively leading us astray, and that I haven't done that, having hardly been active all game.

You haven't been trying to
solve the game. You've been keeping your mitts off of the mislynches when it's been town/town on the block, for example.

Your vote for neither leading train hours before end of day yesterday....

fricking paragraph error

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 12:25

(Dp101, Al Sipsclar, Cuthillius)

All of these people are terrible.

Vote: Cuthillius

Fifth vote on Cuth, which takes a stand.

Nothing happens in between.
Nothing happens in between.
Nothing happens in between.
Nothing happens in between.
Nothing happens in between.
Nothing happens in between.
Nothing happens in between.

Now there's a surprising amount of people on the Cuth wagon.

Vote: GeneralHankerchief

Look at the time stamps, there were only a few hours before end of day and the lynch was always going to be town pizza or town Cuthillius and then he voted town Generalhankerchief. Or in some universe where GH is deliberately not blocking, distancing from hankerchief SAFELY.

GH is never going to get lynched in this situation.

This is a townie who literally thought pizza is scummy AND cuthillius is scummy and the best move would be to not push either with his vote?

So that one would lynch yesterday and one would lynch today.

Town mindset = Murska does not have it.

You know who looks really bad this game? Townies who have tried to win the game for their team.

You know who looks better than pizza, simply by default? Murska, who is not trying to win the game for town.

He's pretty much exactly the scum roleblocker at this point. You need to lynch him so GH can block someone's death!

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 12:27

@GeneralHankerchief (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=16104)
@Pelican (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=100124)
@Al Sipsclar (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=99974) Riedquat
@Dp101 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=100377)

That's all you need to see. ISO Murska first, before you vote me. Is he solving or skating?

He's skating. He's doing no work. He doesn't care about the outcome.

Everyone keeps saying I'm only concerned about saving my own ass. Pardon me, but if that were my concern, I'd tunnel one candidate and not accuse five at once.

Examine literally any scum endgame I've ever played. How many suspects do I EVER HAVE????

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 12:29

"I think pizza is scummy, I think Cuth is scummy, so I'll vote for neither of them with only a couple hours to go and it being vaaaastly unlikely the trains will shift."

How many of you have ever had such a thought when town?

How many times have you moved your vote in that manner when you've been scum, though?

Think about what YOU would have done if you were scum. Scum you does what Murska did, village/village wagon, vote off-wagon even when you said both were scummy.

It's not even a hard decision, guys. It's only hard because I'm alive and I cannot control that part, but the scums can.

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 12:31

I'll just sit and wait for responses here. Otherwise I'm just going to drown out any actual point I just made and people will scroll right past it.

LOOK UP.

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 12:35

I'll at least give atheotes credit, his vote was when GH had another vote. That's riskier if GH-atheotes.

Not very because this is the .org.

Murska's vote on the other hand is just plain wrong for a town mindset. If he thinks both are scum, town murska would never vote off wagon.

Town anyone would never vote on a candidate with no votes at that time of the phase, when 98% of it had passed and people were settled on 2 wagons.

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 12:38

Like, if you don't care about the game anymore, and just dropped your only vote you ever intend to make, I understand.

This is a casual hobby for some people.

I'm probably caring about it too much. I'm asking everyone to care for five seconds and think.

Murska

10-05-2016, 12:38

Everyone keeps saying I'm only concerned about saving my own ass. Pardon me, but if that were my concern, I'd tunnel one candidate and not accuse five at once.

Examine literally any scum endgame I've ever played. How many suspects do I EVER HAVE????

You're only accusing me though...

Fair point, anyway. I haven't really been solving this game much. Too busy, I've limited my participation to being around, reading the thread and trying to vote on scum.

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 12:40

Pizza should have been lynched by now theory is a great way of not needing to state why I'm scummy when I'm not scum and haven't been scummy.

This is the entire case against me.

That plus inertia plus half-consensus. That's why no one is burying me. I'm already dead, in the scum's mind. Town is that easy to manipulate.

Someone voting me right now is town and unlikely to ever change their vote. That's p much all they need.

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 12:42

You're only accusing me though...

Fair point, anyway. I haven't really been solving this game much. Too busy, I've limited my participation to being around, reading the thread and trying to vote on scum.
You've been amazingly good at finding another townie to vote for when it's town/town wagons.

Like, no one has actually lynched a scum this game, so all things being equal, we're all equally scummy. But we're not.

You've somehow managed to ID two townies, call them scummy, and vote a third townie.

That's amazing.

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 12:43

I'm also accusing Monty and atheotes, specifically. If either of them were town, I'd be risking alienation of a critical vote I need. And I'm also referring to previous rounds.

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 12:44

Pelican

get a grip on yourself, flappy bird, the amount you don't care about this game could be written on the great wall of china and run out of space.

Read what I wrote about murska and change your vote!

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 12:47

No one is burying me because I'm already dead. No one is burying me because I'm already dead.

A townie doesn't know that.

A townie doesn't know, and thus, would think there's a chance scum-Pizza gets away with this entire game and fricking BURYS ME with A CASE.

REASONS WHY I AM SCUM.

Nope. Just vote and cross your fingers.

No need for superstition here, because I'm already dead.

The game is over until a vote changes.

Murska

10-05-2016, 12:48

You've been amazingly good at finding another townie to vote for when it's town/town wagons.

Like, no one has actually lynched a scum this game, so all things being equal, we're all equally scummy. But we're not.

You've somehow managed to ID two townies, call them scummy, and vote a third townie.

That's amazing.

I like how you're calling all three of these individuals townies when two of them are still alive. I also don't see what sort of scum train of thought would leave one going "Huh. There's wagons on people, I'm currently voting for Town and they're likely to be lynched. I should probably switch off this wagon now and vote for a third person".

As opposed to a Town player going "Huh. I thought to open a counterwagon because I'm not sure whether my original target actually is scum. But the counterwagon gathered steam way too fast and from some odd people. I should not keep my vote here, but I'm still not sure whether my original target is scum or not. I suppose I'll vote for someone I do think is scum."

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 12:48

Murska

10-05-2016, 12:50

Ever considered that scum might just be silent because there's yet another day of double town wagons?

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 12:50

I like how you're calling all three of these individuals townies when two of them are still alive. I also don't see what sort of scum train of thought would leave one going "Huh. There's wagons on people, I'm currently voting for Town and they're likely to be lynched. I should probably switch off this wagon now and vote for a third person".

As opposed to a Town player going "Huh. I thought to open a counterwagon because I'm not sure whether my original target actually is scum. But the counterwagon gathered steam way too fast and from some odd people. I should not keep my vote here, but I'm still not sure whether my original target is scum or not. I suppose I'll vote for someone I do think is scum."

One of them is me, and the other one is the reason why I've been able to track.

It's kinda obvious. Only GH can be scum out of the two of us and you're pushing the wrong one. And imo both are the wrong one.

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 12:51

Ever considered that scum might just be silent because there's yet another day of double town wagons?

Not remotely.

Describe that universe, for shits and giggles.

Murska

10-05-2016, 12:51

Nobody ever votes for GH when I do, so pushing him is kind of futile.

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 12:55

They know I'm already dead, so there's no need to overdo it, no need to push me.

Scum have no reason to be desperate here. The critical vote they needed to lynch Murska did what they thought he would do, and is voting me.

To explain, because I wrote this sentence really fast:

They have to predict who's going to vote where. Al is kind of a maybe. Pelican is like a sure-fire pizza voter.

Now, if Pelican were to change his mind, all of a sudden, the count is wrong and they're in trouble.

Pelican votes, and reasons why I'm scum vanish, and people don't care anymore.

Scum pizza isn't going to get away with all this murder, they don't actually think to themselves, because we've got it in the bag.

Pelican tunnel on pizza won't vanish, he's going to hit back next time he's here with a case on pizza. Literally zero chance he changes his mind, because he's barely playing this game.

Al maybe votes Murska. GH, maybe. Me, definitely. Dp101, perhaps, but he's waffling. But without that fifth vote, it's not an issue.

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 12:57

Nobody ever votes for GH when I do, so pushing him is kind of futile.

It's futile only because I made it so today.

If (expected) I came in here and went, welp, GH is obviously the scum blocker, vote GH, and he votes me, that's game.

That is the whole point of hitting Winston, isn't it? Unless Winston can solve it with his power, there's no reason to hit Winston.

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 12:58

If I came in here and didn't think, this game would have been quite done.

You'd have had five GH votes in that scenario.

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 12:58

Or at the very least, an exactly zero chance I don't get lynched. That's a win-win.

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 13:01

Pelican thinking he's gotta come back here and bury me with a case tells me everything I need to know about him.

The poor guy actually thinks I'm going to get away. That the votes to lynch me aren't already extant.

That's a townie mindset. That pizza might actually get away.

Montmorency

10-05-2016, 13:03

The problem with Pizza's logic on Mafia not needing to bury him because he's burying himself is that one of the only Mafia teams that could successfully operationalize it is a scum team with Pizza on it.

Montmorency

10-05-2016, 13:04

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 13:10

I'm literally putting Monty on ignore mode.

Murska, describe your meta as accurately and in as detailed a manner as possible.

Tell the newer players here, or the folks that haven't played with you much, what Murska is all about.

Town meta, scum meta, overall meta, in your own words. I'm not looking to twist them.

If you leave it up to me, I'd put it like this:

Town Murska and scum Murska look similar, because you don't do walls very much, and your post count is never that high.

You're a good scum hunter, but not finding scums doesn't make you scum.

What makes you scum, to me, here, is that at critical points of the game, you didn't take a stand and bury a suspect. Even a small bit of aggression.

It still could have been gentlemanly, and all that. You don't appeal to the crowd, for example. You just state your case.

You haven't bothered to do that ever this game, and took no stance on your own suspects' lynches yesterday. The non-sequitur was saying there's too many people on the Cuth wagon, when you were the only one who added to it.

How does a townie think... this wagon was fine before I added to it, but now it feels dirty?

That's someone trying to not vote Cuth, and then vote Pizza the next day. That's literally the only thought that I can think of which leads to that sequence of events.

It was scum Murska trying to be less wrong.

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 13:12

All I've done for most of this game was try to bury people. I have a lot of blood on my hands.

At no point did I ever think... would voting here make me look bad?

I deliberately put the after-the-deciding vote on BSmith. That's not pizza looking to avoid blame.

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 13:14

I've got my autograph engraved on those lynches. Those dead bodies say Pizza on it. Some of them even thought I was scummy for it, and they could TALK.

Pizza has NOT been trying to avoid blame, or to look good. And that's why votes started picking up on me mid-game, and they've been coasting on that shit ever since.

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 13:19

Scum pizza's plan for this game is easy as hell. I'd bus someone. Then I'd claim tracker if I were ever under pressure, which means I die soon after, but I could always claim to be blocked forever and ever after that. That's the simplest explanation. And then if someone else claims to have been blocked, I lynch their ass. Then I die, having caused maximum damage.

I'd get several scummy townies lynched, and talk a lot with the dead townies and play to them, because if they think someone is scummy, that's a known confirmed townie saying it. And they'd have reasons to be hateful toward those who lynched them. I would have been a coward and a con man, and it would be written all over everything I've done all game long. But I'd be dead and proven scum, not trying to play for an endgame.

That's so generic but it would have worked. People avoiding blame for lynches have been trying to avoid dead townies saying "Lynch him! He did it!"

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 13:20

I'm going to have to walk away from my computer. Otherwise, it's just going to be scroll past, scroll scroll scroll. Probably already is.

Riedquat

10-05-2016, 15:34

I'm going to have to walk away from my computer. Otherwise, it's just going to be scroll past, scroll scroll scroll. Probably already is.

Vote: Pizza for now... Or Murska... Or Pizza... I'm not sure!

Now, come back and give us the picture of the entire scum team, preferable in a very big and condensed wall of text!

Dp101

10-05-2016, 15:43

Thank you Pizza for laying out how Murska has been staying back and not in the thick of it enough, that was what my example was getting at but I wasn't sure if that was his standard playstyle or not.

Montmorency

10-05-2016, 16:04

Thank you Pizza

he will whisper as Pizza cackles while choking the life out of him.

'Thank you for allowing me not to witness the abyss of my degradation.'

Dp101

10-05-2016, 16:19

Look, I'm getting really tired of this. I thanked him because I literally have no idea what Murska's baseline is and needed a second opinion to be sure. Also, if you hadn't noticed, I'm kind of getting frustrated with this game, which erodes my patience and the time I'm willing to spend hunting back through this giant thread, so having someone else look at someone's beheviour over the whole game can be useful. Now, are you going to keep making small jokes and comments, or are you going to actually try and solve the game?

Montmorency

10-05-2016, 16:21

Pizza and Al Sipsclar, I guarantee you. Simple as that.

GeneralHankerchief

10-05-2016, 17:01

I'll finally have some time to look at this in an hour.

Murska

10-05-2016, 17:54

I'd probably try thinking about the game around now but there is no real chance to get anyone else lynched and no matter how pocketed I still prefer a Pizza lynch to myself.

atheotes

10-05-2016, 18:05

Pizza, you have not answered my qn about why you think GH is town.
I looked at the votes, realised Al Sips has done nothing all game but made sure he voted every phase. He ensured that Cuth got lynched over Pizza and did not even bother to give a reason for the vote.
It is unbelievable that nobody has paid any attention to that. I am fairly convinced he is scum.
Vote: Al Sipsclar

GeneralHankerchief

10-05-2016, 18:09

Okay, I'm going to be doing this in segments mostly because I'm not sure when I'm going to get back to working. Also, they represent different strands of thought.

The first strand is that I think we all need to be operating based off the following two assumptions:

Assumption 1) Pizza and Murska are not m/m together. Given the gamestate (basically Lylo and town having not gotten a single lynch right) and how hard these two have been going after each other it makes absolutely no sense to set up a mutual bus/Thunderdome. It's far more likely that we're dealing with an m/t pairing, possibly t/t, but never m/m.

Assumption 2) One of the two of them is going to be today's lynch. The battle lines are basically drawn at this point and there's not going to be enough momentum to take a third option, even with 8-9 hours remaining.

Assuming that the above two assumptions are correct, take that into account for my thoughts to follow.

Murska

10-05-2016, 18:20

atheotes

10-05-2016, 18:20

I still think GH is scum and Pizza has been pretty scummy as well.
The only point in favour of Pizza is the fact that he actually revealed Winston's visit to JHT before Winston. I think it is unlikely for a tracker to be part of scum team. I dont know if Zack would give cover roles to scum and also allow them the use of the cover role abilities.

Pelican and Dp101 are pretty much town for me. I am not going to lynch Monty either.

Murska has been scummy as well. But i cant find any strong associations for him.

Quat could very well be scum. It makes no sense to have a neutral role that can only win with town. also i dont trust his VC about keeping Fry alive. Fry should not reveal.

Unfortunately i did not have much time today and these are my current thoughts on the game. We are in potential Lylo and i understandy why. I will try to be back before EOD. Lets atleast make this lynch decisive.

Murska

10-05-2016, 18:20

Assumption 2) One of the two of them is going to be today's lynch. The battle lines are basically drawn at this point and there's not going to be enough momentum to take a third option, even with 8-9 hours remaining.

You. I really dislike you.

GeneralHankerchief

10-05-2016, 18:25

Second part.

The supporting players.

Al Sipsclar I don't have a read on. Low volume of posts, jailed him on N4 but I was actively blocked, he claims vanilla townie, whatever.

Riedquat is town. Period. I refuse to entertain the notion that he isn't at this time. If he's scum, then well played, I never saw it coming.

atheotes is kind of a man adrift. He's playing to his own tune, as most recently evidenced by his Al Sipsclar vote. Now, while the mafia have been obviously effective at this game thusfar, it's a possibility that they can afford to have atheotes be the lone man doing his own thing as kind of a last resort in case the tables turn, I think the numbers and my other reads make it far more likely that atheotes is just a townie doing his own thing. Basically, the only scenario in which I see atheotes as maf is if Pizza and Murska are t/t, in which case it's already over anyway.

Pelican is for all intents and purposes MIA. What posts he does make have him going all-in on the "Pizza is scum" universe.

Dp101 has had a very townie tone. This is, if I recall, his second game ever. Which means either he's town... or he's a terrifyingly good liar. If we survive the next round or two he'll need to be examined come endgame but he gets a town lean in the interim.

Montmorency has Pirate Ship Mafia III written all over his behavior in this game. In Pirate Ship III, Monty (vanilla town), preferred to give out direction instead of take it for the most part, generally ending up running a parallel effort to the town's main thrust. Occasionally they intersected with varying results. Sound familiar? It should. It's also notable in that Monty, while obviously well-intentioned, was wrong far more often than not in that game, particularly with his main nemesis in that game Andres. Town Monty has this kind of... block... where once he really, truly locks onto a player, the universe twists around on itself to make sure every scenario has that player as a scumbag. We're definitely seeing that here from him w/r/t Pizza, now the only question is whether Monty's right or not.

More coming.

GeneralHankerchief

10-05-2016, 18:36

(As an aside, if I'm proven wrong and an Al Sips wagon does materialize, I'd be happy to join it)

GeneralHankerchief

10-05-2016, 19:07

Third part.

The candidates.

Murska is... setting off alarms. Pizza, if you chew through the fat, has a good case on him. Murska's response to one of Pizza's main points is below:

I unvoted Pizza because people I was suspicious of, specifically Cuth, voted for him and I thought to give it time and see what'd spring up from a counterwagon. The wagon on Cuth started way too fast so I moved on GH whom I still think is definitely scum instead.

Which, okay, I can see it, but he immediately follows it up with this:

I would note that the only way Town is doing this poorly is that someone has been actively leading us astray, and that I haven't done that, having hardly been active all game.

And this is the post I don't like. There's plenty of reasons towns can be terrible in these games. Lack of activity. Enough people putting their blinders on w/r/t other townies and refusing to entertain other possibilities. People getting sidetracked. Someone taking up the leadership role, but being flat-out wrong instead of actively leading people astray. As a matter of fact, I'd go the other way and argue active sabotage is one of the least common reasons why a town stinks up a particular game. Murska, I have no idea about your meta or experience and I don't often play this card, but I've been playing Mafia for a while and one of the things I've found is that when faced with a bad town, the mafia simply let them all shoot themselves in the foot (and the head) without directing the tiller too much. I think this is an attempt at creating a false scenario and planting it in people's minds.

So, I know you've mentioned the issue somewhat, but basically I want to get in your head more. I want a full reads list from you, with explanations, as well as possible scum teams. I'd also like your full thought process regarding your actions over the past day or three. We've got an appetizer with the whole "why I moved my vote" thing from last round, but now I want the main course. I'm at the point where pretty much only that will get me to move my vote off you, unless we're faced with competing Al Sipsclar/Pizza wagons.

Speaking of which...

Askthepizzaguy. Good god. Pizza. Could this actually be the moment? I don't think we've ever, ever been on the same wavelength in a game of mafia together - regardless of our factions - and, well, there have been a lot of games.

Anyway, moving on from the sentimentality. It wasn't always like this. I was sure you were mafia after Cuth flipped town last phase. It all fit into play - the last-minute shift, the "as long as it isn't me" mentality you seemed to have. I fully intended to come after you, guns blazing. I even tried to throw you in jail last night.

But the case against Murska is good. The tone is right. There are some things you just can't fake. I don't care how well-regarded and tricky you are, as you and I both know that doesn't work on me. Mafia, when faced with triple game point, don't get desperate and flailing around until they hit paydirt. They just don't. They can try, but they leave subtle tells that they're putting it on for show, and those tells aren't there. So if it's a Pizza/Murska thunderdome today, I'll stand in your corner. You've got a good case and you're playing the part of town well (though the alien thing that Ried mentioned hasn't fallen out of my mind yet). If it's a Pizza/Al Sipsclar thunderdome, I'll stand in your corner for that too.

My vote will remain on Murska. If momentum moves it away from him and onto Al Sipsclar, then I will vote Al Sipsclar. I will not be voting for Pizza this phase.

GeneralHankerchief

10-05-2016, 19:09

Final part:

I think our remaining scum are Murska/Al Sipsclar/Pelican. Pelican's trying to take out a power role, Murska is distancing and attempting to do a soft bus of Al Sips currently. Possibly because Murska's the scum roleblocker (or rolecop?), possibly because he sees the momentum shifting away from Pizza.

Montmorency

10-05-2016, 19:23

generally ending up running a parallel effort to the town's main thrust.

For better or worse, I was the town thrust in the second half of the game. But there's no private comms here.

Definitely not impressed with the meta paragraph about Murska and Pizza.

Can we vote Al Sipsclar? This is making me uneasy. I have the feeling Pizza can act like this because he has set up a situation where he doesn't care if a town or a scum is lynched on this particular day - he's playing, and has been playing a longer game - and it's annoying me. I would vote Al Sipsclar over Murska, if Pizza is really not happening again.

Please consider just finishing off Pizza. If Pizza is not scum, then we are all very horribly wrong in unique ways anyway.

Montmorency

10-05-2016, 19:26

To clarify, if Pizza is town then none of the proposed scum teams are anywhere close to the mark.

It would have to be Pelican + Sip/Murska + ?. At that point, it might as well be DP101 as the Sith Lord Jar Jar here.*

*Just by allusion, not saying you're acting like a Jar Jar here DP.

GeneralHankerchief

10-05-2016, 19:28

I'm not voting for Pizza.

But what do you think about my paragraph on the second post of Murska's I quoted?

Montmorency

10-05-2016, 19:33

It's kind of a quibble, as the interpretation can be extended into truism. By my interpretation specifically, then yes, you would be right as the scum team will have been a heavy lurker-lean this game. However, just by noting that ideas can be "planted" you admit that even subtle comments or case setups can have repercussions tending toward desired scum positions, even if they have stopped talking at the later point.

Montmorency

10-05-2016, 19:35

I mean, if you agree that Pizza is scum, then you agree that he has groomed the arguments around, for example, your position to a considerable degree. The cases around GH, that is.

Riedquat

10-05-2016, 19:37

:stare: Unvote; vote: Murska

Do not like the Al-sip wagon at all!

Montmorency

10-05-2016, 19:38

So you agree with this case on Murska, or are you going with the role thing you abandoned earlier?

GeneralHankerchief

10-05-2016, 19:43

I mean, if you agree that Pizza is scum, then you agree that he has groomed the arguments around, for example, your position to a considerable degree. The cases around GH, that is.

This was one of the big reasons why I suspected Pizza last night, but it doesn't overwrite
a) his tone
b) the fact that his case on Murska is still valid

Montmorency

10-05-2016, 19:46

GeneralHankerchief

10-05-2016, 19:49

Basically here's my order of precedence in terms of who I'm saving.

GH > Riedquat > Monty > Pizza > Dp > atheotes > Pelican > Al Sips > Murska

GeneralHankerchief

10-05-2016, 19:51

What if, like you, Pizza finds this tidbit about Murska a compelling argument in abstract (despite its mixed record across games)? Wouldn't that trivialize tone, and make the potential of the argument itself incidental?

I'd say it's null at this point. Pizza's case on Murska isn't fluid, it's pretty set in stone at this point. I don't see what him picking up on that one post changes.

Riedquat

10-05-2016, 19:52

So you agree with this case on Murska, or are you going with the role thing you abandoned earlier?

Of course, and admittedly with more paranoia than reason, but reason has served nothing this game so far.

Montmorency

10-05-2016, 19:53

Vote: Al Sipsclar

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 19:55

I would consider Al Sipsclar as an alternative, if atheotes began town-telling.

Though, to be honest, I don't know what the town-tells or scum-tells for atheotes would be. For atheotes, I pretty much only use generic scum tells like pushing townies to death, and that doesn't really apply here. It just could go either way.

I've been focused on Monty and Murska because their scum tells are getting obvious. Monty looked "himself" the entire game, that's not his tell. It's just his vote record and who he's not willing to vote, pure and simple.

Some people you can't read based off of tone or "being themselves" and Monty is one of those people I guess. Which is something I didn't know about Monty, I have played with him many times but not as town versus a Monty-scum. But he's irredeemable this game and he's simply power wolfing.

Murska, the case is there. I'm glad people are seeing it, but without Al Sipsclar or Pelican's support, I will simply be 4 or 5 voted at deadline. So we need to be decisive.

In the event that we cannot get 5 on Murska, I will support Al Sipsclar lynch over myself, but not over a Murska lynch.

I think we just got shafted by townies not having time / not investing.

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 19:56

I'd say it's null at this point. Pizza's case on Murska isn't fluid, it's pretty set in stone at this point. I don't see what him picking up on that one post changes.

I missed this part or just didn't understand it, what does this mean?

Riedquat

10-05-2016, 19:57

Basically here's my order of precedence in terms of who I'm saving.

GH > Riedquat > Monty > Pizza > Dp > atheotes > Pelican > Al Sips > Murska

:laugh4: GH > Riedquat :laugh4: I've already told you, you have a faulty cpu!

Zack

10-05-2016, 19:59

Tally as of post 2815:

Lynch votes
3 votes: Murska (GeneralHankerchief (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053717246#post2053717246), Askthepizzaguy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053717302#post2053717302), Dp101 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053717359#post2053717359))
3 votes: Al Sipsclar (atheotes (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053717559#post2053717559), Murska (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053717564#post2053717564), Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053717603#post2053717603))
2 votes: Askthepizzaguy (Pelican (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053717444#post2053717444), Riedquat (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053717530#post2053717530))

not voting - Al Sipsclar

Voting ends in: tunnel snakes rule

Voting history:
Askthepizzaguy

Askthepizzaguy

Murska

atheotes

Askthepizzaguy

Murska

Murska

Askthepizzaguy

Askthepizzaguy

Al Sipsclar

Al Sipsclar

Al Sipsclar

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 20:00

:stare: Unvote; vote: Murska

Do not like the Al-sip wagon at all!

This vote isn't being picked up by the counter.

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 20:03

Pelican Al Sipsclar atheotes

One or two of you are town. We need everyone on the same train. A 3 way split can't win this game.

Riedquat

10-05-2016, 20:06

Vote: Murska weird...

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 20:06

The scums voting for Al Sipsclar tells me that Al's alignment, scum or not, will not affect the scum's likelihood of winning this game.

If he's scum, they're bussing the least valuable member of their team.

Montmorency

10-05-2016, 20:08

Yes, that's what I said.

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 20:11

Isoing atheotes again.

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 20:14

At this point, the only way to really read Pelican/Al is to look at everyone else in the game first and see if you run out of spaces to put either another townie, or another scum.

Al+atheotes+Murska is not the team, in my opinion. Monty's in it.

If Al is in it, you kick atheotes out of it. That's why I gotta look at atheotes and see if there's anything I can reliably read.

Does anyone else want to try it, so it's not just me doing the iso?

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 20:22

I'm doing the iso separately, I don't want this part lost in the wall.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111-Futuramafia-In-Play&p=2053715270&viewfull=1#post2053715270

I dont like any of the quoted posts. I feel that Murska has been coasting without any follow up on his comments.

atheotes noted Murska's behavior earlier than just about anyone. But this is the critical day, no more time at all, and atheotes unwilling to lynch Murska.

That looks like distancing. How can Murska's behavior be so scummy to atheotes that he notes a big line of his bad behavior, but the follow up is not existent when it's critical, and when there's a slam dunk case on Murska exists.

That's a major problem. If atheotes refuses to lynch Murska under any circumstance, he's always scum with Murska.

I'll keep digging to see if I find anything that contradicts that.

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 20:25

Post immediately after that:

:2thumbsup:. precisely what i was doing.

this is how things look after reading the Khaan iso/interactions/comments.

Stork looks towny
Pelican is town
Winston looks scummy
Pizza looks scummy
Novice looks scummy
Choxorn seems to have an agenda. Scummy
Monty - no change because of anything in this. Town lean
GH - also no change. Neutral
Cuth - also no change - Neutral

Winston wasn't scum, Pizza isn't scum, Novice wasn't scum, choxorn wasn't scum, Monty is scummy as hell, Cuth was town, Stork was not scum, Pelican town-read seems consensus-y. atheotes is not scum hunting here, because anyone who could be scum is nowhere near is radar.

GeneralHankerchief

10-05-2016, 20:35

Pizza, how would you fit atheotes's recent Lone Ranger act in with him being potentially part of a scum team on the precipice of victory?

Montmorency

10-05-2016, 20:37

atheotes is not scum hunting here, because anyone who could be scum is nowhere near is radar.

You already explained why this retrospect approach does not work: no scum have been lynched.

Riedquat

10-05-2016, 20:47

You already explained why this retrospect approach does not work: no scum have been lynched.

But it serves to reaffirm my paranoid theory! :yes:

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 20:51

Didnt realize this started.
Vote: CrimsonFox
I see you as threat to Day 1 org traditions.
Welcome to the ORG! ~:wave:
Vote for townie

time to catch up. Whats happening?
Doesn't stay and do anything that day, or even stay and talk.

I did not like Stork's shifting of votes EOD D1.
Also, whatever happened to BSmith wagon on D1? i dont think we had v/v/v/v wagon.
I dont have any opinion on Choxorn/Riedquat right now.
Vote: Novice
Vote for townie

x-post.

I dont think it is enought to warrant a lynch today. Only conclusion is that Crimson and Choxorn are not w/w. If Crimson is resolved as town, then the possibility of Choxorn being scum is high.
Sus a townie

Cuth is coming off worser in the discussion with Stork. And I actually started from a position of Stork being scummy.
Sus a townie

I would prefer Cuth but will not be disappointed if you decided on Chox.
Directing tracker to the wrong targets

That was mostly a joke as i have GH as null.
I was townreading you for the most part. Of late i am getting scum vibes from you. it is still in the tin foil territory and probably not worth looking at today.
Curious to know what did dp101 do to cause scum vibes.
atheotes
What posts or what behaviors from dp gave you scum vibes?

interesting. this should resolve itself. Hopefully Pizza can get another result.
in the meanwhile Vote: GH
This line bothers me.

i dont want to lynch you anymore :smitten:

You are sceptical that mafia might have roleblocker and rolecop? we already know we have 4 dead town PRs of some kind. we have neutral parties, seen a day kill, and have more PR claims and you are claiming jailkeeper. Yet, you think its unlikely for scum to have Roleblocker and Role cop? i call BS on this post. I dont believe GH's claim.
Top line said at dp, I don't understand what dp did to cause the shift of opinion. It looks like pocketing, not solving.

Atheotes kind of angling for a GH lynch based on his claim without being willing to give it time to resolve.

4 dead town PRs
Choxorn - Mason - looks true.
Pizza - tracker - should resolve itself. Lets see if he can get a track result tonight.
GH - Jailkeeper - doubtful
Winston - softclaimed something - ???

Quat - neutral
We have other PRs. I am assuming the Crimson kill was a one time shot by non town.

I dont believe GH's claim. mainly based on progression to the claim. I also dont like his refusal to speak about his actions. So my vote stays there.
I will try to read up on the dead PRs to see if there were any hints.
atheotes-GH team looks extremely unlikely.

Note: In the next post, atheotes presses dp to vote GH. This can be scummy but it's points in atheotes' favor, because that can be an attempt to solve.

What is the point if Winston's ability? Catch somebody lying about their role?
IIRC, We still dont know who wa responsible for the day kill. I think it must be a another robot.
I also think that a robot is part of the scum and possibly responsible for the day kill.
If this is a theory, it's really on point. It's the same thought I had. Winston's role was a solving role, it wasn't simply bullshit. That's why he was targeted, I think.

I am so tempted to call pizza town for this post.
This is either a pocket attempt, or atheotes needs to vote with me today.

It is quite possible that pelican was role copped and GH has claimed to have jked him for 3 nights in a row bcos it is unverifiable.
Vote: GeneralHankerchief
Possible, but why is it conclusive?

We are 10 now. Tomorrow we will be 9 with 3 scum and Quat probably not counting for parity.
if we mislynch we probably lose and yet we have no consesus.

I suggest the following actions:
Winston - Check on me.
Pizza - Track GH
GH to jk Dp101.
I really dislike this post. I only got any information at all because I ignored the planners itt.

it was offwagon when you could have either advanced my wagon or tied

and your vote would never have made a difference where you put it

I was not sure about you and pizza. I thought and still think GH is scum. I posted a reason with my vote hoping it could be an alternate to the current wagons. on hindsight i probably should have tied the votes. I sincerely believe that GH is the scum roleblocker and Winston was the scum role cop.

Cuth's point about atheotes not solving with his vote. This was the problem I had with Murska, above all else.

How did you arrive at this? Does this mean, the baddies in the show are the scum here? Way too straight forward for my liking.
let me go find Murska's claim.

Also, i dont really want to make a claim here.

The time for a real, townie counterclaim was ages ago. That has long since passed.

Atheotes soft-claiming here is a major scum tell.

I cant find Murska's claim. Can anyone help me?

It was the first post that came up in the search and you can tell because it includes the quotation from the role PM. It's visible.

Do a search, it was basically the top line. Atheotes asking for help here tells me he wasn't even looking.

GH has been my top scum read. he was also quick to vote Murska. I would expect town GH to be more skeptical here.
if it comes to Monty and you, probably you.
I also have my doubts about Quat. He needs most of the Robots to survive. if the scum dont have any robots it effectively makes him town. So why would he propose a "scum must be human" theory? Guess i need to read all the claims again.

Atheotes had Murska as a suspect and never town-read him ever.

When did this change?

Laying the framework to vote pizza or GH today.

That plus the case on Al is atheotes' body of work.

If Al Sipsclar is scum, he's someone they can bus. I really don't think Al Sipsclar is scum. It's Murska-atheotes-Monty.

There's a slight possibility of Murska-atheotes-Al Sipsclar, but my god Monty is literally a tire fire if that is the case.

I know Monty is weird, but there's no way he's not scum here.

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 20:56

Cliffs notes of above post:

1) pushes townies all game, lazily votes for the people who claimed, asking for more data. Suspects basically only townies the entire game with the exception of Murska.

2) Murska: Noted five posts of his that were scummy. Promptly forgets to ever mention it again, never votes or pushes him, and then out of the blue, thinks GH is too "quick" to vote for Murska.

3) No explanation for why GH has to be scum, re-frames that issue as "why are you so sure he's NOT scum?"

Burden of proof is yours. You can't come up with a case against GH, so you ask us to do so. That's bs.

The bottom line is this: Everyone needs to get off of Al Sipsclar.

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 20:57

Pizza, how would you fit atheotes's recent Lone Ranger act in with him being potentially part of a scum team on the precipice of victory?

Murska scum roleblocker almost always. Anyone else is bussable right now.

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 20:58

Forgot to add to the summary that atheotes also avoided lynching the lynchee and voted off-wagon like Murska did.

That's worth at least an orange or a red.

Montmorency

10-05-2016, 20:59

Murska-atheotes-Monty.

Biggest reach yet. You talk so much about power wolfing yet you have a scum team expending all its voting capital on a secondary wagon, at LYLO?

GeneralHankerchief

10-05-2016, 21:01

I'll be back in two hours for the homestretch. Pizza, Monty, keep the vote on Murska in the meantime.

Riedquat

10-05-2016, 21:08

I'll be back in two hours for the homestretch. Pizza, Monty, keep the vote on Murska in the meantime.

Monty isn't voting Murska at the moment!

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 21:08

Biggest reach yet. You talk so much about power wolfing yet you have a scum team expending all its voting capital on a secondary wagon, at LYLO?
That's probably the weakest and most obviously wrong thing you've said all game.

This is the absolute most basic of the basic tactics. If ANY townie votes incorrectly, and this can be on Al or on Pizza, that's pretty much game.

Giving two wrong answers that people are willing to vote wins easier. If there's only one alternative to Murska, then there's a chance people think Murska is the scummier of the two.

Give three suspects and a false compromise is possible.

Dividing the votes is critical here. Pelican is voting for me, for example, and that's literally enough to cause 4 votes.

Unless town votes for someone and gets 5 votes, it's impossible for town to win except by a coin flip.

How could it NOT occur to you? How is that even possible?

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 21:11

It's like being willing to vote for Pizza or GH when both are wrong choices.

It's the same tactic over and over. Give two wrong choices so some townie latches on to one of them.

@Pelican (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=100124) wake up!

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 21:14

I can't do this without everyone in my town here, present, accounted for, and voting!

We're already relying on a neutral's vote! He's townier than you!

Dp101

10-05-2016, 21:17

Not quoting because it's hard to cut quotes up on mobile, but the comment from Atheotes about not wanting to lynch me came after I appreciated his post breaking down the post-khaan info. Other than that case looks solid.

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 21:18

We can at least force the 4-4.

That's an unnecessary 50/50 chance but given how crap I played I'll take it.

Murska

10-05-2016, 21:24

Eh, whatever.

Unvote
Vote: Pizza

So, I know you've mentioned the issue somewhat, but basically I want to get in your head more. I want a full reads list from you, with explanations, as well as possible scum teams. I'd also like your full thought process regarding your actions over the past day or three. We've got an appetizer with the whole "why I moved my vote" thing from last round, but now I want the main course. I'm at the point where pretty much only that will get me to move my vote off you, unless we're faced with competing Al Sipsclar/Pizza wagons.

Too much work to appease probable scum in an already-lost game.

GeneralHankerchief

10-05-2016, 21:26

Christ.

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 21:27

My wife wants to spend some time with me before bed, it's after 10pm here.

I can't stay. I need @Pelican (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=100124) 's vote to move.

Last call: If I do not have the exact team correct, then

@atheotes (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=23809) and @Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=74339)

You guys need to move your votes and let Murska swing. I actually need one of you to vote for Murska to be safe.

I'd love to be exactly correct here, it would do my sanity a lot of good, but just in case I'm wrong.

Lost cause on one of you, probably both. But I refuse to not cover all the bases if this is my final post of the game.

Don't let it be 4-4.

Montmorency

10-05-2016, 21:27

That's probably the weakest and most obviously wrong thing you've said all game.

This is the absolute most basic of the basic tactics. If ANY townie votes incorrectly, and this can be on Al or on Pizza, that's pretty much game.

Giving two wrong answers that people are willing to vote wins easier. If there's only one alternative to Murska, then there's a chance people think Murska is the scummier of the two.

Give three suspects and a false compromise is possible.

Dividing the votes is critical here. Pelican is voting for me, for example, and that's literally enough to cause 4 votes.

Unless town votes for someone and gets 5 votes, it's impossible for town to win except by a coin flip.

How could it NOT occur to you? How is that even possible?

Wrong. You create an alternative with one member, not all three at once.

Riedquat

10-05-2016, 21:32

I can't do this without everyone in my town here, present, accounted for, and voting!

We're already relying on a neutral's vote! He's townier than you!

What were you saying the other day, you couldn't count with my vote for parity? :2thumbsup:

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 21:42

What were you saying the other day, you couldn't count with my vote for parity? :2thumbsup:

Yeah, meaning the game is locked / ends if there's not enough townies. For those purposes, your vote doesn't count.

Turns out we did and do need you. The good news is there's really no reason for the scums to kill you even if you vote with town, so if it's a 4-4 tie, and you're afraid that not holding your vote where it is will cost you a win, they have to chew through GH and me first or they will lose.

Askthepizzaguy

10-05-2016, 21:43

So you've earned your townie wings in my book.

If you were worried I never call you townie, well, you are one now. Even if you're not.

Al Sipsclar

10-05-2016, 22:29

I like Riedquat's paranoid theory. But I'm a sucker for in-universe clues. Even though Zack said that the knowledge of the universe would not help solving the game, he can be screwing with us nevertheless.
What I can't wrap my head around is why Dr. Ogden Wernstrom or Donbot, for that matter, would be "solid" cover roles for scum. For Larry (human) the cover was Elzar (alien). Pizza claimed Kif, who is another alien, so it'd be a point against Pizza.
I've always been Pizza's fanboi, I desperately want him to be town, but I won't regret losing to him, because I've been entertained.

So, Riedquat claimed neutral, and for this to be lylo, we need at least another 3rd party, who I assume is Pelican (Fry). I don't remember Pelican claiming neutral, but no one else counterclaimed.

If not me, not Riedquat, not Pelican, not DP, not GH, not Pizza, we have exactly Murska, atheotes and Monty left. The less-than-solid cover role makes me hesitant about Murska. Monty seems too reckless to be scum. I'm most convinced about atheotes. But I guess I have to do more paperwork to figure out who are the two scums among GH/Pizza/Murska/Monty.

Vote: atheotes

Riedquat

10-05-2016, 22:46

GeneralHankerchief

10-05-2016, 22:57

https://i.imgur.com/Qn7oYmr.gif

Montmorency

10-05-2016, 23:05

https://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr309/desertSypglass/tumblr_mkjykf8xYg1rpduwho1_500.gif

GeneralHankerchief

10-05-2016, 23:11

:stare::laugh4::stare::laugh4::dizzy2::inquisitive:

4 votes: Murska (GeneralHankerchief, Askthepizzaguy, Dp101, Riedquat)
2 votes: Al Sipsclar (atheotes, Montmorency)
2 votes: Askthepizzaguy (Pelican, Murska)
1 votes: Atheotes (Al sipsclar)

This can go so wrong....

There's two people on Pizza that probably aren't going to change.

There's three other votes spread around, two of them from people who have lodged utterly WTF votes and promise to come back later to "closer examine the situation".

If Monty switches to Pizza then atheotes and Al Sipsclar could very well jump out of friggin nowhere and put the killshot in on Pizza.

So we're dependent on Monty - whose feelings towards Pizza are pretty well known - and atheotes, who has been top of the class at the Charlie Day School of Wild Card Philosophy, in the final rounds.

I don't think I've ever seen the future more clearly in my life.

Montmorency

10-05-2016, 23:11

Unfortunately, there are 10 cigarettes there.

GeneralHankerchief

10-05-2016, 23:12

Look at this post.

Eh, whatever.

Unvote
Vote: Pizza

Too much work to appease probable scum in an already-lost game.

LOOK AT IT.

THIS IS NOT A TOWNIE TRYING TO WIN.

ASIJHGOADJHGL:JKJALKSHKJG

Montmorency

10-05-2016, 23:13

Tell you what: I'll vote Pizza in the last 10 minutes, then, as per usual for this game, we make it CFD.

GeneralHankerchief

10-05-2016, 23:15

Tell you what: I'll vote Pizza in the last 10 minutes, then, as per usual for this game, we make it CFD.

Just vote for Murska and keep us all alive and me sane.

Dp101

10-05-2016, 23:23

Al, get on Murska, NOW. You called him mafia, and we lose if the votes are spread. We need to vote together or mafia will just switch last second.

GeneralHankerchief

10-05-2016, 23:26

Al, get on Murska, NOW. You called him mafia, and we lose if the votes are spread. We need to vote together or mafia will just switch last second.

It's a pretty blatant distancing attempt/hedge. I think you'll have better luck appealing to Monty. Maybe atheotes if Pelican is our third.

Al Sipsclar

10-05-2016, 23:27

- Give it to me straight, doctor, don't sugarcoat it.
- Very well. Your entire family died when a plane piloted by your fiancée crashed into your uninsured home. And you have inoperable cancer.

Vote: Murska

Montmorency

10-05-2016, 23:28

Look, if I don't think Murska is scum, then this is a loss anyway. I'm fatalistic about these things. I mean, I tried - what more do you want? A dayvig pulled out of my butt, killing one and lynching the next? I've said what I could and every time Pizza gets stronger. Al Sipsclar drops a scorn vote and you can't even be bothered to make his wagon happen.

Montmorency

10-05-2016, 23:29

Of course.

atheotes

10-06-2016, 01:15

Post immediately after that:

Winston wasn't scum, Pizza isn't scum, Novice wasn't scum, choxorn wasn't scum, Monty is scummy as hell, Cuth was town, Stork was not scum, Pelican town-read seems consensus-y. atheotes is not scum hunting here, because anyone who could be scum is nowhere near is radar.

:laugh4: I have suspected some townies. voted for some. My top suspect is yet to be resolved though
But you...voted for every townie that has been lynched. Unable to find any scum through tracking. have you suddenly become so poor at reading the game? I dont think so.

There is no explanation for why are you still alive other than you being scum. Reason i am not voting you is because of the Winston-JHT track result you provided and I dont think it makes sense for scum tracker.

Zack

10-06-2016, 01:26

Tally as of post 2862:

Lynch votes
5 votes: Murska (GeneralHankerchief (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053717246#post2053717246), Askthepizzaguy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053717302#post2053717302), Dp101 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053717359#post2053717359), Riedquat (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053717612#post2053717612), Al Sipsclar (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053717677#post2053717677))
2 votes: Askthepizzaguy (Pelican (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053717444#post2053717444), Murska (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053717642#post2053717642))
2 votes: Al Sipsclar (atheotes (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053717559#post2053717559), Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053717603#post2053717603))

Voting history:
Askthepizzaguy

Askthepizzaguy

Murska

atheotes

Askthepizzaguy

Murska

Murska

Askthepizzaguy

Askthepizzaguy

Al Sipsclar

Al Sipsclar

Al Sipsclar

Murska

Unvote

Askthepizzaguy

atheotes

Murska

Zack

10-06-2016, 01:26

Voting ends in: tunnel snakes rule

Murska

10-06-2016, 01:28

Look at this post.

LOOK AT IT.

THIS IS NOT A TOWNIE TRYING TO WIN.

ASIJHGOADJHGL:JKJALKSHKJG

Well duh. Of course it's not a townie trying to win. It's a townie not caring anymore.

atheotes

10-06-2016, 01:28

pile of BS

wow...D1 rvs vote is part of your analysis.
one softclaim bothers you but the other is a major scum tell. Scum have cover roles. Townies dont.

I have made my case on GH. My case on GH is a "possible" one as you say. when are townies cases ever conclusive? Yet you are sure he is town. Based on what?

Murska has been scummy. but not the top of my POE. I am more positive about Al because of his iso and the omgus vote post.

Anyways, i need to go now. I know i am one of the reasons this is only a possible LYLO.

Young lady, I am an expert on humans. Now pick a mouth, open it, and say BR BR BR BR BRRRRRRRR.

https://i.imgur.com/GJnt6oO.png

Dr. John A. Zoidberg

Player: atheotes

Role: Zoidberg (https://theinfosphere.org/Zoidberg)

Faction: TOWN

Team Victory Conditions:

The Town achieves victory based on its ability to achieve the goals listed below.

- The Mafia are eliminated.

- All hostile Third Parties are eliminated.

- At least one member of the Town survives the game.

Abilities:

Hardy Carapace (1-shot protection). Nightkill immunity on Night 1. This is a passive ability and it triggers automatically. If you are not attacked Night 1, you can choose to give it to someone else on any of the following nights and they will be protected.

-----

If you have any questions, ask me privately.

:2thumbsup:

GeneralHankerchief

10-06-2016, 01:37

Vote: Al Sipsclar

Dp101

10-06-2016, 01:38

Why?

GeneralHankerchief

10-06-2016, 01:40

Why?

I'm letting the stars guide me.

Dp101

10-06-2016, 01:49

Ok, but just so you know if we lose and you are not mafia and Murska is I am blaming you for the loss.

Zack

10-06-2016, 01:59

Tally as of post 2870:

Lynch votes
4 votes: Murska (Askthepizzaguy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053717302#post2053717302), Dp101 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053717359#post2053717359), Riedquat (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053717612#post2053717612), Al Sipsclar (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053717677#post2053717677))
3 votes: Al Sipsclar (atheotes (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053717559#post2053717559), Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053717603#post2053717603), GeneralHankerchief (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053717695#post2053717695))
2 votes: Askthepizzaguy (Pelican (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053717444#post2053717444), Murska (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053717642#post2053717642))

Voting history:
Askthepizzaguy

Askthepizzaguy

Murska

atheotes

Askthepizzaguy

Murska

Murska

Askthepizzaguy

Askthepizzaguy

Al Sipsclar

Al Sipsclar

Al Sipsclar

Murska

Unvote

Askthepizzaguy

atheotes

Murska

Al Sipsclar

Zack

10-06-2016, 01:59

Voting ends in: tunnel snakes rule

Dp101

10-06-2016, 02:18

I have to go eat dinner and won't be around at lynch. We lost anyway unless a townie wakes up and we can get 5 on one target.

Riedquat

10-06-2016, 02:19

I'm letting the stars guide me.

You are killing me GH...

Al Sipsclar

10-06-2016, 02:21

Ok, but just so you know if we lose and you are not mafia and Murska is I am blaming you for the loss.

You should be blaming me for being the perfect patsy in General's evil plans. Well done, GH.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_SeVyzFxA8

Dp101

10-06-2016, 02:42

I'm going to be so pissed off if we lose because of a random vote. I mean, there is a decent chance that GH is allied with Pizza given the former's attitude towards the latter today, but if so then I'm really not sure who the final town could be.

Dp101

10-06-2016, 02:48

So, hi mafia, you all gonna switch onto al at :59, right? And then I get to be salty? Alternatively Pizza and General are mafia and Murska is innocent, and then I get to be more salty.

Zack

10-06-2016, 02:53

atheotes

10-06-2016, 02:54

So, hi mafia, you all gonna switch onto al at :59, right? And then I get to be salty? Alternatively Pizza and General are mafia and Murska is innocent, and then I get to be more salty.
Al sips is a better lynch than Murska. Just check the post where he voted me

Dp101

10-06-2016, 02:55

If any town are still not on Murska, please switch. Regardless of if it is the right choice, we need to have 5 on one candidate or we lose no matter what. If we have 4 and 1, then mafia can always lynch the 1 (unless both are mafia, but unlikely). However, if we have 5 then we only lose if the guy with 5 on them is town. The point I'm trying to make is that having 4 on 1 always results in a loss.

Dp101

10-06-2016, 02:56

Al sips is a better lynch than Murska. Just check the post where he voted me

Please read the post I just made. Quality of lynch no longer matters.

atheotes

10-06-2016, 02:57

Ok, but just so you know if we lose and you are not mafia and Murska is I am blaming you for the loss.
Switch to Al and you can blame me if he is town and we lose the game.

Dp101

10-06-2016, 02:57

Switch to Al and you can blame me if he is town and we lose the game.

But even if we do, we still have 4 on one target and cannot win.

Dp101

10-06-2016, 02:58

Disregard that, if not all of the mafia are awake then we can win. Honestly there is a decent chance that Al is mafia, but I feel Murska more strongly.

atheotes

10-06-2016, 02:58

At least it would be the right choice. And gives us a better chance for tomorrow if we can pull it off

GeneralHankerchief

10-06-2016, 02:59

Vote: Murska

Montmorency

10-06-2016, 02:59

So have you chosen to live by the Pizza, so shall you come to die by the Pizza.

Amen and pass the breadcrumbs.

GeneralHankerchief

10-06-2016, 02:59

(for the record my vote was always ending on Murska, I just wanted to see if my change would spark movement)

Zack

10-06-2016, 02:59

Tally as of post 2887:

Lynch votes
5 votes: Murska (Askthepizzaguy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053717302#post2053717302), Dp101 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053717359#post2053717359), Riedquat (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053717612#post2053717612), Al Sipsclar (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053717677#post2053717677), GeneralHankerchief (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053717717#post2053717717))
2 votes: Askthepizzaguy (Pelican (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053717444#post2053717444), Murska (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053717642#post2053717642))
2 votes: Al Sipsclar (atheotes (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053717559#post2053717559), Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111&p=2053717603#post2053717603))

Voting history:
Askthepizzaguy

Askthepizzaguy

Murska

atheotes

Askthepizzaguy

Murska

Murska

Askthepizzaguy

Askthepizzaguy

Al Sipsclar

Al Sipsclar

Al Sipsclar

Murska

Unvote

Askthepizzaguy

atheotes

Murska

Al Sipsclar

Murska

atheotes

10-06-2016, 02:59

Your vote will clinch it.
I probably lost the game for town by not going after pizza Earlier

Zack

10-06-2016, 03:00

DO NOT POST.

Zack

10-06-2016, 03:03

https://i.imgur.com/Ez84VcB.jpg

Murska was lynched.

-------

"It's time you left science to the 120-year-olds!" - Murska

https://i.imgur.com/OLgg6cU.png

Dr. Ogden Wernstrom

Player: Murska

Role: Wernstrom (https://theinfosphere.org/Dr._Ogden_Wernstrom)

Faction: TOWN
-------

It is now Night Six.

Night actions due by: tunnel snakes rule

Zack

10-06-2016, 03:03

Alive: 8

Al Sipsclar
Askthepizzaguy
atheotes
Dp101
GeneralHankerchief
Montmorency
Pelican
Riedquat

---

Lynched: 6

d1 - spaceman98 - Leela
d2 - BSmith - Amy
d3 - Stork - Professor Farnsworth
d4 - novice - Scruffy
d5 - Cuthillius - Hattie
d6 - Murska - Dr. Wernstrom

---

Killed: 7

n1 - El Barto - Flexo
n2 - Visor - Hermes
n2 - seireikhaan - Larry
d3 - CrimsonFox - Zapp Brannigan
n3 - Newyn - Linda
n4 - choxorn - Morbo
n5 - Winston Hughes - Robot Devil

---

Modkilled: 1

johnhughthom - Hedonismbot

Zack

10-06-2016, 03:03

YOU CAN POST NOW.

GeneralHankerchief

10-06-2016, 03:04

:daisy:

Dp101

10-06-2016, 03:04

We... didn't lose?

GeneralHankerchief

10-06-2016, 03:05

We... didn't lose?

I think we lost. Zack might just be leaving us in suspense for a night.

it's what I normally do as host

Dp101

10-06-2016, 03:06

I think we lost. Zack might just be leaving us in suspense for a night.

it's what I normally do as host

You can't be serious. That's horrible!

GeneralHankerchief

10-06-2016, 03:07

Welcome to the .Org and the Gameroom, still occasionally your personal slice of suspense and hell.

Riedquat

10-06-2016, 03:28

Crap crap crap....

So.... I suggest still town submit orders for the night, it will be over when it's over, not earlier!

------

And a question to the marvelous scum team, as the Kumquat theory worked so flawlessly in your favor, would you consider killing me the last? Or at least, before Pelican? :clown:

atheotes

10-06-2016, 05:34

Why would the game end?

Dp101

10-06-2016, 05:39

Um, because we were told it might be lylo?

atheotes

10-06-2016, 06:24

Um, because we were told it might be lylo?

it was only a potential Lylo.
8 alive with 3 scum and 1 neutral is the most likely scenario.
or there is more than 1 neutral and they are some conflicting win conditions.
But i am going to assume 4 town, 3 scum and 1 neutral alive at this point. So scum need to kill tonight to win.
There are a few things that might prevent the scum from getting the necessary kill.

atheotes

10-06-2016, 06:29

Riedquat

10-06-2016, 09:02

the scum team is probably Al Sipsclar - Pizza - GH.

the remaining townies are Dp101, Pelican, Monty and atheotes. If they have a role blocker, the scum can simply roleblock me and kill Dp101 or Pelican. Game over.

But based on Quat's claim, he can also protect. He might play along with the scum or probably has his own interests and will protect a robot (or Fry) who might be targeted by scum.

I only can protect Fry at the moment, apart that is what I want, my ability works that way, I don't have choices. And in all honesty I've played along with both but mostly with town because is just nearly freaking impossible play along with a mafia team where their identities and roles are unknown to you, except the casual hint in the form of a brick in the face.

atheotes

10-06-2016, 09:42

I only can protect Fry at the moment, apart that is what I want, my ability works that way, I don't have choices. And in all honesty I've played along with both but mostly with town because is just nearly freaking impossible play along with a mafia team where their identities and roles are unknown to you, except the casual hint in the form of a brick in the face.

I guess it narrows down who gets killed. was the Crimson day vig a 1-time ability?

Riedquat

10-06-2016, 14:32

I guess it narrows down who gets killed. was the Crimson day vig a 1-time ability?

Uh!? That wasn't me! I can't kill!

Askthepizzaguy

10-06-2016, 16:07

the scum team is probably Al Sipsclar - Pizza - GH.

the remaining townies are Dp101, Pelican, Monty and atheotes. If they have a role blocker, the scum can simply roleblock me and kill Dp101 or Pelican. Game over.

But based on Quat's claim, he can also protect. He might play along with the scum or probably has his own interests and will protect a robot (or Fry) who might be targeted by scum.
If it is GH then the game is over because he's the only one who can stop a kill on me.

Mafia know I'm town, and pretty much no one else does. So, gg. I stunk up the whole thread and I'm truly embarrassed by my performance.

Askthepizzaguy

10-06-2016, 16:18

I have 400 posts
Can't tell which ones sucked the most
Won't matter much when we're all ghosts
The scumbags have reason to boast
All I have is 400 posts

:(

atheotes

10-06-2016, 16:59

If it is GH then the game is over because he's the only one who can stop a kill on me.

Mafia know I'm town, and pretty much no one else does. So, gg. I stunk up the whole thread and I'm truly embarrassed by my performance.

I would be pretty disappointed/dumbstruck if your not scum. I have already submitted my orders. not going to change it.

Dp101

10-07-2016, 02:15

So, everyone ready to find out we lost?

atheotes

10-07-2016, 04:06

no update yet = game over :disappointed:

Dp101

10-07-2016, 04:10

Zach isn't even online, so nothing is confirmed.

Zack

10-07-2016, 04:26

Sorry everyone, I've working all day on homework that's due in 30 minutes. I barely made it. :sweatdrop:

Don't post.

Zack

10-07-2016, 04:35

https://i.imgur.com/o2UJHFt.jpg

...

....

....

.....

.....

............

It is now Day Seven.

Voting ends in: tunnel snakes rule

Zack

10-07-2016, 04:35

Zack

10-07-2016, 04:36

It is potentially LYNCH AND LOSE, so be very careful with your votes today.

If you want to move to shorter phases AND/OR implement hammer/majority, send me a PM. Won't change anything without... majority. :laugh4:

You can now post.

GeneralHankerchief

10-07-2016, 04:37

I was blocked again at night (shocker) and was not responsible for the lack of kills.

Dp101

10-07-2016, 04:38

If I understand this right, we need to successfully block the nightkill every night until the end of the game to win, right? Also Vote: Pizza

GeneralHankerchief

10-07-2016, 04:39

(not attempting to engage now, it's 30 minutes past bedtime as is. See you all tomorrow.)

Dp101

10-07-2016, 05:23

So Quat, were you the one that stopped the kill? Did your action go unblocked?

atheotes

10-07-2016, 05:32

thats a pleasant surprise.

atheotes

10-07-2016, 05:32

If I understand this right, we need to successfully block the nightkill every night until the end of the game to win, right? Also Vote: Pizza

not really. we just need to lynch scum everyday to win.

Dp101

10-07-2016, 05:38

not really. we just need to lynch scum everyday to win.

And who are the mafia?

atheotes

10-07-2016, 05:44

And who are the mafia?

You tell me. :yes:

Dp101

10-07-2016, 05:47

You tell me. :yes:

You first :P

atheotes

10-07-2016, 05:53

You first :P

I already did. yesterday. Al sips - Pizza - GH.

Dp101

10-07-2016, 05:56

I already did. yesterday. Al sips - Pizza - GH.

Ok. I agree with you on Pizza, the others could go either way. Still think we need to finally kill either Monty or Pizza today, I don't think town would be able to stay alive as lynchbait for so long.

atheotes

10-07-2016, 06:04

Ok. I agree with you on Pizza, the others could go either way. Still think we need to finally kill either Monty or Pizza today, I don't think town would be able to stay alive as lynchbait for so long.

Who is the lynchbait? Pizza or Monty?

Dp101

10-07-2016, 06:08

Who is the lynchbait? Pizza or Monty?

Both, they have kind of been psudothunderdomeing for the past couple of days, and it feels odd that neither of them actually wound up dead as a result of any of these lynches.

Riedquat

10-07-2016, 06:14

So Quat, were you the one that stopped the kill? Did your action go unblocked?

My actions went unblocked! And finally found a freaking threat!

Vote: Montmorency

:2thumbsup:

Dp101

10-07-2016, 06:18

Have we managed to establish yet if those that get detected as threats by you are threats just to you or to town? Still, its the only real thing I have to go on right now, and I trust you probably the most out of everyone right now, so Vote: Montmorency

atheotes

10-07-2016, 06:24

My actions went unblocked! And finally found a freaking threat!

Vote: Montmorency

:2thumbsup:

Elaborate please.

Dp101

10-07-2016, 06:26

Elaborate please.

His role I believe allows him to scan if people are a threat to him or not (might be misremembering). It might not only trigger off of mafia, but its better than nothing (or is it, could be mafia gambit but I doubt it).

Riedquat

10-07-2016, 06:30

CrimsonFox was able to kill and a threat to my survival, none of my other targets was a threat, and now another one, take your own conclusions!

atheotes

10-07-2016, 06:40

His role I believe allows him to scan if people are a threat to him or not (might be misremembering). It might not only trigger off of mafia, but its better than nothing (or is it, could be mafia gambit but I doubt it).

i understand that part. I wanted him to describe what kind of threat. As he says Monty is a threat to his survival. not necessarily mafia.

CrimsonFox was able to kill and a threat to my survival, none of my other targets was a threat, and now another one, take your own conclusions!

thanks. I dont think Monty has claimed his role yet. Let us see what he has to say. In the meanwhile can you share all your results?

Askthepizzaguy

10-07-2016, 08:47

Hold on, before we continue, there's a limbo state between possibly there being a hammer, and there being no hammer.

Until that's decided, there should be no votes on the board.

Dp101

10-07-2016, 08:58

Could someone explain why hammers are used? Is it just to cut down on the length of the day?

atheotes

10-07-2016, 09:04

Hold on, before we continue, there's a limbo state between possibly there being a hammer, and there being no hammer.

Until that's decided, there should be no votes on the board.

i dont think any of those decisions will affect this day phase. If there is any change it should only be applicable for subsequent nights/days.

Who did you track last night?

atheotes

10-07-2016, 09:07

Could someone explain why hammers are used? Is it just to cut down on the length of the day?

I would think so. it usually helps to shorten days when there is not much to discuss. ofcourse it is often exploited by scum during lylo.

Askthepizzaguy

10-07-2016, 09:13

Pelican went nowhere last night.

Askthepizzaguy

10-07-2016, 09:30

Note for majority purposes: Sooh and I will be doing shopping and errands, and going to dinner with friends of hers. I'll be back perhaps 10 o clock tonight.

I have to get ready. Talk things through, don't quick hammer.

GeneralHankerchief

10-07-2016, 11:51

I will be against any hammer, mostly because my activity will be limited this weekend.

Montmorency

10-07-2016, 14:11

Riedquat, who do you really think is the threat here?

What about Pizza, who we have agreed is the Threat-with-a-capital-T? Has he bought you off? I can pay too, you mercenary scoundrel.

atheotes

10-07-2016, 15:23

Riedquat, who do you really think is the threat here?

What about Pizza, who we have agreed is the Threat-with-a-capital-T? Has he bought you off? I can pay too, you mercenary scoundrel.

you do realize that Quat could be scum? did you claim your role?

Montmorency

10-07-2016, 15:29

Here. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111-Futuramafia-In-Play&p=2053717078&viewfull=1#post2053717078)

But Quat is indeed 3rd party - there's no other way for these days to be potential LYLO unless there are 4 scum - it's just much worse: he's selling out. He's compromised at this point. It didn't happen today. Maybe not even yesterday (when Riedquat very suddenly decided to agree with Pizza and followed his vote on Murska. But at this point Ried can't be trusted. He has the real scans on scum, and he's decided to dog whistle them that he's willing to help them lynch town and win with them.

Scum won't kill him, and town won't lynch him. So he has the perfect position to play Kingmaker. :daisy:

atheotes

10-07-2016, 15:38

atheotes

10-07-2016, 15:42

my theory is that we have another 3rd party - maybe the one who was responsible for Crimson - and Quat is scum. Tinfoiling probably.

Montmorency

10-07-2016, 15:44

Doesnt he have a VC to keep Fry alive?

He's given us a few secondary VCs - obviously surviving is #1 - like keeping robots alive (graded VC), keeping Flexo alive (failed), and keeping Fry alive. Honestly, that one, with the exhortation for Fry to claim in thread, sounded more like fishing for NK a la this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZPBWL0ZDSY). I think he sees it this way: help scum win now, and no more robots die, and he himself doesn't die. He walks away with moderate victory or whatever.

Dp101

10-07-2016, 15:55

I thought that if mafia won it is implied that all remaining non-mafia players are killed. With that in mind, I don't think third party survivor can win with mafia.

Montmorency

10-07-2016, 16:06

With that in mind, I don't think third party survivor can win with mafia.

Why not? They usually can.

Mafia typically have to kill Town, and any explicitly hostile other faction or player. That's it.

Riedquat

10-07-2016, 16:30

Night Actions:

N1: Scan on CrimsonFox: Human and threat to my survival
N2: Scan on Jht: Robot not a threat/Unlocked the protection at the start of night 3
N3: Scan on Newyn: Human not a threat
Protection on jht: Successful
N4: Scan on GH: Robot not a threat/Unlocked the protection at the start of night 4
N5: Scan on Pelican: He is my friend Fry/Unlocked the protection with the result
Protection on GH: Successful
N6: Scan on Montmorency: Human and a threat
Protection on Pelican: Successful

Monty, all negotiations are here in the table, tell me what do you offer and how can I believe you?

Montmorency

10-07-2016, 16:38

Don't side with the Mafia? I think you're lying about one or more of your scans. Just tell us what you know and lynch scum.

They won't kill you because they can't afford it. They would rather have you and three townies tomorrow than kill you and face 4 townies.

I have a feeling you've scanned Pizza at some point, but who else?

Dp101

10-07-2016, 16:39

Well, either Pelican/Quat are mafia or Monty/one of Atheotes and Al. Of course, that assumes that Fry needs to be town, but given that the protection worked, it's our only non-blocked source of protection, and there was no NK, it seems pretty likely.

Montmorency

10-07-2016, 16:41

Riedquat

10-07-2016, 16:42

Minor error:

N4: Scan on GH: Robot not a threat/Unlocked the protection at the start of night 5

Only way I can win with the scum is if they are not a threat to my survival, as long as they can kill they are a threat.

Dp101

10-07-2016, 16:44

Wrong and misleading, again.

Successful just means they weren't blocked, unless you think that JHT and GH were attacked and that Riedquat single-handedly saved them?

If I didn't see Pizza here, I would definitely believe you and GH are scum.

I know that success doesn't mean it blocked something, but the fact remains that something caused the lack of NK.

Montmorency

10-07-2016, 16:49

Atheotes has claimed a protective ability.

Montmorency

10-07-2016, 16:51

Only way I can win with the scum is if they are not a threat to my survival, as long as they can kill they are a threat.

Your posted role PM does not say that.

Riedquat

10-07-2016, 17:05

Your posted role PM does not say that.

No, but tell me then, how can I interpret the results of my scans? I do find threats to my survival, one could kill and was townie, what do you do to be a threat to me?

Montmorency

10-07-2016, 17:10

I already said: you're lying.

atheotes

10-07-2016, 17:49

atheotes

10-07-2016, 17:51

Atheotes has claimed a protective ability.

Yes. I hope now you all can understand why i did not believe GH's claim.

Montmorency

10-07-2016, 17:58

Yes. I hope now you all can understand why i did not believe GH's claim.

On the other hand, you claimed a one-shot.

I tell you this, there's no way GH and Pizza are scum together, and it's only Pizza that Riedquat can be merc-sheeping.

I am set on Pizza, Al, and DP101.

atheotes

10-07-2016, 18:25

On the other hand, you claimed a one-shot.

I tell you this, there's no way GH and Pizza are scum together, and it's only Pizza that Riedquat can be merc-sheeping.

I am set on Pizza, Al, and DP101.

Yes. I Claimed 1-shot...
Why is GH still alive? JK is a powerful role. lets say they had him negated via the roleblock and kept him alive as lynch bait
what about last night... I was suspecting GH. So i was not going to protect him. Surely he could not jailkeep himself. The scum decided to go after Fry (Pelican) instead. Why?

Dp101

10-07-2016, 18:32

Because they think they can just roleblock him forever is my guess. I agree though, it does feel odd that they would go after a claimed vanilla. Maybe they did it because Pizza is mafia and they want to save him from the main proponent of him being mafia? Or, slightly more tinfoil, they want people to think that's what they did and mislynch Pizza. Ultimate tinfoil is that mafia is Quat Pelican and withheld kill to get a town lynched while acquiring town cred for the two of them.

Montmorency

10-07-2016, 19:03

Why is GH still alive? JK is a powerful role. lets say they had him negated via the roleblock and kept him alive as lynch bait
what about last night... I was suspecting GH. So i was not going to protect him. Surely he could not jailkeep himself. The scum decided to go after Fry (Pelican) instead. Why?

So you protected Pelican? I don't follow what it has to do with GH either here-or-there.

Ultimate tinfoil is that mafia is Quat Pelican and withheld kill to get a town

Why would they do that when a kill would win them the game?

Dp101

10-07-2016, 19:48

Now you see why I called it ultimate tinfoil, it probably isn't what happened.

Askthepizzaguy

10-07-2016, 22:13

Riedquat

You're looking for guarantees relating to being unwilling to lynch X robot and/or worried about your personal survival.

There is probably at least 1 robot scum, however I also think as you do that they're mostly human. Just name the people you'd be willing to lynch, and if they're a suspect, we'll go that route. It's the only way to get the vote totals we need.

You've already demonstrated your commitment to town. We wouldn't be able to win without your help anyway. If it's just plain old clear that we're not going to win, I'm still not voting to lynch you ever. Don't worry about that part.

Let's find suspects we mutually agree on and go from there. If, after we look at those suspects, it's impossible or incompatible win conditions between you and town, then it wasn't even your fault. Then it was just luck of the draw, meaning the people we have left. No one is going to blame you for the kinds of people remaining.

We win together or we don't. Monty's definitely scum, but you seem hesitant on certain others. Let's hammer things out so we don't have to even negotiate things out tomorrow and the day after.

Askthepizzaguy

10-07-2016, 22:14

who will you be willing to lynch within Pizza, Al sips and GH? or will you even be willing to lynch within that group?

^
What atheotes said.

Askthepizzaguy

10-07-2016, 22:16

Still would like to see unvotes in the case of a quick hammer. I want to hear from everyone one more time before I lock in a vote.

Askthepizzaguy

10-07-2016, 22:20

Yes. I hope now you all can understand why i did not believe GH's claim.

I get it. If you had hardclaimed while I was still online, I'd have had to redo my teams.

On the one hand, it's an easy claim to make. On the other hand, the wording of it looks real, and now the power seems to be demonstrated.

Askthepizzaguy

10-07-2016, 22:28

Askthepizzaguy

10-07-2016, 22:30

I'm forced to consider dp101 here and I don't think that's correct.

Askthepizzaguy

10-07-2016, 22:32

I wish my three townies would just raise their hands at this point.

Askthepizzaguy

10-07-2016, 22:35

Scenario 1 that enters my head:

Pelican was attacked, and Reidquat blocked it.

Scenario 2:

Someone attacked whoever atheotes protected.

Scenario 3:

GH pocketed me.

Askthepizzaguy

10-07-2016, 22:36

No idea at all why GH wouldn't still just shoot me. Surely scum GH doesn't think atheotes would protect me.

Askthepizzaguy

10-07-2016, 22:54

I thought that if mafia won it is implied that all remaining non-mafia players are killed. With that in mind, I don't think third party survivor can win with mafia.

Third party and neutral are slightly different. Neutral can win with any team. Basically, they don't count for parity, so if it's 3 townies, 3 scums, 1 neutral, mafia wins, because a neutral has achieved all their win conditions.

What I'm suggesting is that Reidquat has, I think, made his choice to side with one team over the other. If that's town, yeah, it will take a bit longer for him to achieve his win condition, more rounds of play, perhaps, and it's also possible that we have to lynch a claimed robot. But maybe that's not the case.

I just want to see if it's possible.

If it's not possible, then it's already game over and I don't want to waste too much of my time. I'm just keeping the diplomatic channel open.

If the people he's willing to lynch are compatible with town, or 2/3 of them are, that's probably a done deal. If not, well, I can say I tried.

Askthepizzaguy

10-07-2016, 22:57

It's largely up to Reidquat here. List of names he's not willing to lynch plus list of names he's willing to, and we'll work it out.

Askthepizzaguy

10-07-2016, 23:15

Only way I can win with the scum is if they are not a threat to my survival, as long as they can kill they are a threat.

This is a relief, it means that a compromise is definitely possible. Thanks for clarifying.

Basically the only way you wouldn't side with us is if we needed to lynch someone you said wasn't kosher.

At that point, we just tie up the vote, see who the coin flip is, and walk home happy regardless.

Al Sipsclar

10-07-2016, 23:20

I'm running out of spaces for there to be a mafia roleblocker actively using their power. I'm definitely overlooking something.

It's possible that Al didn't use his power at all in the early game, but he'd have had to have missed sending in orders.

I don't have any power, other than this unholy acting talent. :laugh4:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shxhCpznMtQ

Riedquat

10-07-2016, 23:25

Monty - Pizza - Atheotes - Al Sip/GH - Dp101

Or Monty - Al Sip - Dp101/Pizza - Atheotes/GH

Or Monty - Dp101 - Pizza/Atheotes - Al Sip - GH

I'm willing to lynch everybody except Pelican but today my vote is unmovable. I only have a semi certainty, Monty is a threat, about the rest I'm blind like everybody else.

Askthepizzaguy

10-07-2016, 23:48

Scum roleblocker is the key. If we lynch that person, then a GH-town scenario could lead to fewer interim deaths before the mafia die.

Because of my tracking results, that scum blocker can be GH or dp101 as the most likely candidates.

There's a possibility it was atheotes, because if Pelican was targeted, you stopped that kill. But I don't know how likely that is.

It's possibly Al, missing an order on n2. That's actually the simplest explanation.

Monty wasn't blocking the night prior, and Pelican wasn't blocking last night.

So, assuming GH is town, and you keep protecting him, lynching the correct person out of those 4 probably wins us the game. With fewer robot casualties to boot.

I'm assuming that's also the major concern here, getting a win with the fewest casualties related to your win conditions.

Askthepizzaguy

10-07-2016, 23:56

Lynch scum blocker.

You protect GH, GH protects a random villager remaining, possibly stopping another kill altogether, giving town outright control over the lynch again.

At that point, it's lynch lynch win. I'll go Monty scum lynch today if that's the only way to begin cutting down their numbers. But the order of operations matters.

Thoughts on the scum roleblocker's identity?

Askthepizzaguy

10-07-2016, 23:59

Or if you said you can only protect Pelican, do that.

Guess GH would just have to randomize it and get lucky, hoping to stop his own hit.

Askthepizzaguy

10-08-2016, 00:01

dp101 versus Al Sips. At this point, I'd be willing to lynch Al based on his record.

dp101's iso is more townie.

Askthepizzaguy

10-08-2016, 00:14

Heading to bed, it's 1am here and wife says it is bedtime.

Mull things over, we'll talk more during the next 24 hours or so.

I pledge to vote Monty today as a compromise, because it's still possible to slug things out to a final 4 situation that way.

Even better and with more robots alive is scum roleblocker directly first, then the other 2.

Montmorency

10-08-2016, 00:26

So please tell me, everyone, how you would like to interpret that entire last page. Did it look shadier than an alleyway parcel exchange? It sure did to me.
GeneralHankerchief Pelican

Riedquat

10-08-2016, 01:22

Err... I can't protect GH again... it doesn't work that way, the doctor ability triggers after I scan a robot and I'm informed at the beginning of the night if I can use it on the target I've scanned, but only with the last one. With Fry it was different and got informed with the result of the scan from that moment I can protect him every night. The only possible protection I could get would be on Al -Sip but, I would need to scan him first... Apart of that, I don't want to leave Fry without my protection.

atheotes

10-08-2016, 06:26

So you protected Pelican? I don't follow what it has to do with GH either here-or-there.

I did not. I was fairly certain Quat would protect Pelican. The scum knew i would never protect GH. if town, GH was the sureshot kill. Going after Pelican also means they could be alienating Quat. Yet they went after Pelican. What does that say about GH?
Anyways, GH is not my target for today. Pizza or Al sips for me.

atheotes

10-08-2016, 06:33

Montmorency

10-08-2016, 11:27

Yet they went after Pelican. What does that say about GH?

Wait, I don't understand. I see what your position is now, but I don't see how you arrived at the position that Pelican was attacked. And per your role, wouldn't you have been vulnerable to a nightkill (bulletproof only N1)?

Vote: Al Sipsclar

It's time to get the day started.

Askthepizzaguy

10-08-2016, 12:29

Vote: Montmorency

Askthepizzaguy

10-08-2016, 12:33

Can't let the perfect get in the way of the good.

This route leads to a town death, in my opinion. But it does cut down their numbers.

atheotes

10-08-2016, 12:49

Wait, I don't understand. I see what your position is now, but I don't see how you arrived at the position that Pelican was attacked. And per your role, wouldn't you have been vulnerable to a nightkill (bulletproof only N1)?

Vote: Al Sipsclar

It's time to get the day started.

yes. But i am in many scum teams. So lynchbait...not going to be targeted.

atheotes

10-08-2016, 12:50

Can't let the perfect get in the way of the good.

This route leads to a town death, in my opinion. But it does cut down their numbers.

What???

atheotes

10-08-2016, 12:53

Vote: Pizza

All townies should vote for pizza. thats our only chance.

Montmorency

10-08-2016, 12:56

Finally.

Unvote: Al Sipsclar
Vote: Pizza

Askthepizzaguy

10-08-2016, 14:04

What???

What what?

Scum roleblocker needs to die today. Otherwise a townie dies tonight.

Askthepizzaguy

10-08-2016, 14:07

If that's what ends this game, I'm going to laugh. It's kind of the icing on the failure cake.