Futuramafia [Concluded]

[El Barto]

Six pages of pure blahblahblah and you failed to lynch bartito? lol

Monty is being monty, as always... same goes for visor, very good reader of people/personalities, very useful when townie but a real pain in the ass when he is scum, good luck reading them!

And honestly El Barto was being himself, as he always does as town and from my experience he usually get lynched early in game for the same behavior.
Visor's not a pain in the ass when town then?

[Montmorency]

Dp, let's be frank here. You can talk until you're blue, but you will not construct a "right" choice for that D1 selection. D1 votes are not useful because they might be "right", but because they set options for the rest of the game, as well as their history.

Stork, we don't speak French here.

[El Barto]

And stork is posting from his cellphone…

[Dp101]

Dp, let's be frank here. You can talk until you're blue, but you will not construct a "right" choice for that D1 selection. D1 votes are not useful because they might be "right", but because they set options for the rest of the game, as well as their history.

I wasn't demanding a "right" answer, I only wanted his opinion. I'm sorry if the way I did it pissed you off.

[Stork]

And stork is posting from his cellphone…

i am actually posting from my desktop computer so idk why it says that

[El Barto]

Right, Storkie boy, right.

[Visor]

i am actually posting from my desktop computer so idk why it says that

Ever since I posted from an ipad in 2011 here its been saying that

[Montmorency]

I wasn't demanding a "right" answer, I only wanted his opinion. I'm sorry if the way I did it pissed you off.

No, that's what I mean, but it's fine.

[CrimsonFox]

maybe i just won't shoot anybody, how bout that

[Stork]

LOOK AT ME GO

https://i.imgur.com/BbEb7Ox.jpg

[CrimsonFox]

what is that?

[Stork]

its my computer

[CrimsonFox]

its my computer

i mean what game are you playin?

mass effect?

or is that just your wallpaper

[Dp101]

i mean what game are you playin?

mass effect?

or is that just your wallpaper

Looks like overwatch to me.

[Riedquat]

Given your only thoughts so far on the vote are a town lean, who do you think was actually the right lynch choice?

There was any? O.o


Visor's not a pain in the ass when town then?

Didn't say that! But when mafia is far worse ;)

[Stork]

ya, overwatch

i got kicked for inactivity though because i made that post

[CrimsonFox]

Riedquat, let's hear your hotreadz

[Dp101]

And the thread goes mild

[CrimsonFox]

And the thread goes mild

we could spice it up

[El Barto]

maybe i just won't shoot anybody, how bout that
Shoot Stork! That way we can save my friends, and Riedquat!

[Dp101]

we could spice it up

What are you suggesting?

[Dp101]

Shoot Stork! That way we can save my friends, and Riedquat!

Why do you want Riedquat to live? He doesn't seem that town right now.

[CrimsonFox]

What are you suggesting?

http://cf.sugarfreemom.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/salsa4.jpg

[CrimsonFox]

http://orig11.deviantart.net/5b7f/f/2012/139/4/8/spice_weasel_by_dinkleberges-d50cm8x.png

[Dp101]

Yeah I don't know whats happening in this thread anymore.

[Stork]

anyway, crimfox probably knows this already, but you shouldn't say who you are shooting or if you are shooting for obvious reasons

[CrimsonFox]

#levelz

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'll make a concerted effort to be more active day two if I'm alive. There was little substance to talk about when last I checked in.

I didn't make a random or joke vote, however. Cuth looked like the best vote on that page for a day one vote, and I don't think I would have wanted to move it.

Day one vote means I'm not set in stone on that.

Lol Cuth/Pizza w/w tho. I like to bus my partners on day 1, because that helps me so much come endgame when I'm still alive for no explicable raisin.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Warning:ATPG is likely just reining in his posting

because he doesn't want to scare off all the ORG and CFCers again

Pocket denied.

[Stork]

I'll make a concerted effort to be more active day two if I'm alive. There was little substance to talk about when last I checked in.

I didn't make a random or joke vote, however. Cuth looked like the best vote on that page for a day one vote, and I don't think I would have wanted to move it.

Day one vote means I'm not set in stone on that.

Lol Cuth/Pizza w/w tho. I like to bus my partners on day 1, because that helps me so much come endgame when I'm still alive for no explicable raisin.

i mostly meant it from the other way, not your end

haven't really read your posts because you haven't made many of them obviously

[Askthepizzaguy]

I like to bus my partners on day 1, because that helps me so much come endgame when I'm still alive for no explicable raisin.

Right Monty?

I lynched him with 2 votes only on day 1 and he was my only partner and I didn't even get credit for bussing him because it was no reveals.

It was the perfect storm of dumb move.

[Askthepizzaguy]

i mostly meant it from the other way, not your end

haven't really read your posts because you haven't made many of them obviously

If x is a wolf then y is a wolf, where x and y are not reversible.

I'll see if that makes sense when I do a re-read. Thanks for explaining it anyway.

[novice]

Cuthulius is sounding more and more like a really wrong villa to me at present.

I agree, I felt the same after this post:

you have wolf reads on everyone

spaceman's post was not great

but then you repeatedly defended him

and he's inexplicably one of your top reads

while in general most of the game is pretty scummy

which ime is a thing scums like to say a lot more than town

Hence, this:

I'm gonna go back through the thread, find out who I think is most townie, and sheep them.

I'm actually taking a third option here, liking Cuthilius the best and he's going after novice.
is not very impressive. I would agree that Cuthilius looked towny, but his vote on me was wrongheaded. Did you evaluate the case at all, GH, or just sheep him blindly?


I have Barto as null for the most part, but after going back and checking the Cuthilius/novice exchange I think it's a good look on him, especially if the flips go correctly.
A good look on whom? The Cuthilius/novice exchange is a good look on El Barto?

[Stork]

If x is a wolf then y is a wolf, where x and y are not reversible.

I'll see if that makes sense when I do a re-read. Thanks for explaining it anyway.

you already quoted the post that made me think it, so up to you really

[novice]

I agree with these reads by Stork:


cuth is almost certainly town, not sure what pizza and murska are doing there

fox very likely a villager too

This is very, very tinfoil if you ask me.

fox is a wolf from his weird reactions - early game posts
bsmith is a busser who is bussing fox
stork is trying to save them, his village reads on them are ???

the cfd of smith was pure anyway

/tinfoil

This

I like how you did not post this before. Wait, I don't and it's very scummy of you.
I disagree with. What's wrong with waiting and seeing how other players treat your town reads?

[Stork]

fwiw i don't think cuth is that villagery anymore

[Stork]

i had a mental note of that el barto thing too

visor dropped 5 or 6 reads in a similar fashion later and barto made no similar comment about them

[novice]

aight

Vote: spaceman98


I used to trust visor, but I don't trust stork.

I'm also doubting visor after his IMO bad reads. I would have trusted Stork at that point but I wouldn't have followed him on to Spaceman.


[melodramatically] Oh, fate most cruel, would that my boundless acting skills would avail me a sword with which to slay this wretched curse.

Vote: El Barto

Don't have time to read the whole thread, though.
Al voting El Barto here and then going back to his BSmith vote when he notices BSmith is lynchable seems like plausible town behaviour. Just mentioning it since we have so little on Al so far.


likely not around for eod

but i can get behind

vote:spaceman

i hate the bsmith wagon

there's like almost seriously no reasoning

it's so dirty
And where, pray tell, was the reasoning on Spaceman?

[novice]

Let me state at this time for the record that spaceman is in no way mafia, he is going down way too easily out of nowhere.

How exactly can mafia prevent this if a few villagers manage to band together, and it's coming out of nowhere? I generally approve of day one ambushes like this, it's almost the only way to lynch scum on day one. I wouldn't have picked Spaceman as the target, but e.g. a GeneralHankerchief ambush would have been great.


Claim makes me more suspicious if it was done to evade trackers.
Yeah... To quote my new top town read:

no way this can be a real thought egads

Sorry, let me clarify. Claim does not make him mafia, but can make him look less suspicious later. I still think he is town.
OK, except you "still" think he's town? Like hanky very correctly points out:


You said Fox was likely scum in the world where spaceman was town (which you believed) and then you said Fox was still probably town in reaction to his claim.

[novice]

Didn't say he (CrimsonFox) was probably scum, just that him being scum in that world was more likely.
Yes, you did. In response to "What's your world where spaceman is town? BSmith/Fox/??? ?" you said


Probably. Cuthillius next in that list.
As in, those are the top scum in that world.


shocker

probs a good role too

Why this reaction? You went along with the Spaceman wagon initially.


Well, we… saved a vig?
How do you know?


If I may make a request, crimson, can you please shoot stork? He has been looking more and more scummy lately.
LOL, what?

[Stork]

I realised spaceman was likely town when he got lynched

funny how that goes hehe

[Visor]

im just clickin buttons friends

[novice]

On a general note, I'm caught up and I really find El Barto and CrimsonFox to be very entertaining. :2thumbsup:


Pelican is town
I also liked his post.


Agreed, unless you and cuthillius are mafia together, in which case I would look at him next because of how the reads have lined up.
Can you ever state something without a qualification?


what do you mean by extremely experienced

how many posts do you have on average per phase at your home forum
I've played about 40 games. Each phase averages let's say 150 posts. I wouldn't call it extremely experienced, but it is compared to Dp101.
How long is yours?

[Murska]

I've been somewhat busy and seen nothing terribly commentible in my quick scans of the thread. I agree looking into coasting wolves is good, but real inactivity in my biased opinion is more important if the behaviour persists past day one.

I don't like cfd on people who aren't around to claim or defend at day end.

[novice]

cfd?

[BSmith]

Chinese Fire Drill.

More comments from me when I can get some coffee in by bloodstream.

[Murska]

Chinese fire drill - rapid last moment switch of lynch targets.

[BSmith]

A few thoughts, not necessarily in any logical order.


- I see that this thread is going to be one that moves fast. This will make it harder for me to keep up, fwiw.

- I am old. Well, not old in the grandpa sense, but old for an internet forum. I have three elementary aged kids, a wife, a house and a full time job. I normally post from work, but I am leading a huge project that has a major milestone in four weeks. Bottom line is that I will not be online all that much.

- Experience in Mafia has nothing to do with how many posts you have in a game. It has everything to do with the number of games played and your winning percentages. Since we are all talking about this I have played 72 games over 5 years at CFC with a .563 winning average. I have probably played two dozen or so games here on the Org.

- Along with the above point: Talk is cheap. Actions are where the value is. A player with a single post in a phase could have way more impact to the game than one with 50 posts. Good players will not show themselves by words alone. It is their actions that will expose them.

- On D1 everyone is scum. Unless you are a mason, which I am, but not in this game.

Enough theory, let’s get to the game:


- Al will always vote for me when he has the chance, especially on D1. I should really remember that and just begin to vote him too. It would save on trying to be cute with D1 votes.

- Barto is being Barto. Generally when he is scummy he is town, but he is a good enough of a player that you never really know.

- Visor is quite prone to absolute solid pronouncements of guilt or innocence that literally have nothing behind them and are always subject to change – especially on D1.

- My D1 vote was cute, but in a semi-serious kind of way. It was a joke vote for the poster who posted above me, yet it also kinda fit the narrative of the thread at the time. CrimsonFox was also screaming for more pressure, so I obliged.

- CrimsonFox is quite jumpy. I don’t know if this is his meta, but it certainly doesn’t lead me to want to change my vote (had I been online that is).

- His vig claim is also quite suspicious. Even in a fast paced game that can change at a moment, the timing of his claim is all off. The momentum at the time was not in his direction, but rather away from him. This is not the time to claim vig, as all it will do is put a big target on his back (assuming it is true) and draw away any doctor that might be out there. Said doctor could possibly be caught out by a tracker/watcher drawn to the attention like a moth to a flame. It is also something that is terribly hard to prove in thread, especially in a game like this where we can’t talk privately. It just seems like a massive flinch to me. Remember, actions speak louder than words. This one post by him is worth more than the rest of his numerous posts this phase.

- What was even the case on my wagon?

- It is also amazing how fast my wagon dissolved, and how very little commentary has been had on the subject since spaceman’s reveal, even though a lot of other attention has been given to the other wagons.

[Dp101]

First of all, I would like to apologise for my terrible behaviour and posting pre and post lynch. It was my first lynch time as villager, and I panicked when I realised that I had no idea what was going on and who was mafia. I'm really sorry for clogging up the thread with pointless ideas that were going nowhere and letting my own internal thoughts unrelated to the current game state flood into the thread. Feel free to disregard every post I made in the last 14 hours, because they are all stupid and useless. That said, I still stand by one thing I said.


How exactly can mafia prevent this if a few villagers manage to band together, and it's coming out of nowhere? I generally approve of day one ambushes like this, it's almost the only way to lynch scum on day one. I wouldn't have picked Spaceman as the target, but e.g. a GeneralHankerchief ambush would have been great.

Personally, I think the concept of a few villagers all deciding out of nowhere to simultaneously lynch someone, and have that person be mafia, is insanely unlikely. Your hypothesis that this was an ambush seems to imply that this was something more than random chance, and I see no way that this wasn't. Which is more likely, a bunch of completely independent villagers all happen to have the same unexplainable lean on the same person, and the mafia has no hope of stopping it, or mafia saw someone with a couple of votes on them and bussed them out of nowhere to completely alter the lynch. While there is no way everyone on the spaceman wagon were mafia, there was definitely at least 2 mafia on that train.

I'm going to take a break from the game for a bit, try and clear my thoughts. I might post a reads list closer to deadline.

[Montmorency]

Yes, Pizza once lynched me as his scum buddy on D1 with no reveals, and shockingly proceeded to solo the game.


Chinese fire drill - rapid last moment switch of lynch targets.

Oh gimme a break.

[Murska]

In my experience, admittedly in a different environment than this, mafia don't tend to gather and do concentrated sudden inexplicable pushes to lynch people on day one or any other early day unless there's some sort of substantial threat to their own, and not very ofte even then.

[Montmorency]

I agree.

[Cuthillius]

I'm also doubting visor after his IMO bad reads. I would have trusted Stork at that point but I wouldn't have followed him on to Spaceman.


Al voting El Barto here and then going back to his BSmith vote when he notices BSmith is lynchable seems like plausible town behaviour. Just mentioning it since we have so little on Al so far.


And where, pray tell, was the reasoning on Spaceman?

his multiquote was a bit constructed-feeling

[Dp101]

Ok, if meta here doesn't support it, I will drop my accusations of the mafia jumping on spaceman. Still think it was a terrible idea for a lynch.

[Cuthillius]

Ok, if meta here doesn't support it, I will drop my accusations of the mafia jumping on spaceman. Still think it was a terrible idea for a lynch.

Who would you have preferred, in retrospect?

[Dp101]

Who would you have preferred, in retrospect?

I think we had no good choices. Maybe the general, as Novice said.

[Stork]

if you think a wolf is claiming vig day 1 you are braindead imo

[Stork]

bsmith the entirety of your long post is garbage of the enth order

you think actions speak louder than words, but within all the words you wrote, you literally don't post a single read of any actual consequence or substance

[BSmith]

if you think a wolf is claiming vig day 1 you are braindead imo

I assume this was in reference to my post?


bsmith the entirety of your long post is garbage of the enth order

you think actions speak louder than words, but within all the words you wrote, you literally don't post a single read of any actual consequence or substance

Glad you liked it. :laugh4:

My intention wasn’t really to provide specific reads in that post, with the exception of my thoughts on CrimsonFox and why I was voting for him. There are a lot of new players here and a little perspective on players I have some experience with could help the discussion – or at least provide some additional perspective to the less exposed. As with anything, those perspectives are my opinions and should be taken with a grain of salt.

It is night 1. There really are no actions to be taken in the thread, outside of role claiming – which I am not planning on doing. It’s going to be all talk until we can start voting again and get reads on the actions that are happening tonight. Likewise, there is no basis for solid reads at this point either. We still don’t have enough information.

I doubt we have multiple scum on any one wagon. I think it is just as likely that the spaceman wagon had one scummer on it as having none. But all of this is conjecture until we have more vote tallies and lynch/night results.

Fox claiming is a quandary either way. I think it was suboptimal play as either a wolf or a villager. I have no real way of verifying that the claim is even legit. I have seen both SK and mafia make this claim – to varying levels of success – to prolong their time in the thread. If he is a wolf and if he really thought that he was about to get lynched, then it would make sense to make a claim like this to prolong his time in the game. Kick that can down the road and see if he can’t get out of the jam later. Mafia is a team game as well, so even if it means he gets killed later, it would still be beneficial to the team for him to stick around even one or two more phases. A claim like this could do exactly that, especially given the prevailing sentiment that a wolf would be braindead to make this kind of claim. :bow:

[Stork]

if i am a village vig i just shoot him

i agree he could be a noot or something though

don't think he is ever mafia because no mafia gets run up in close wagons like that, when presumably they could have just moved the wagons to one of the other players, and then claims something which is always a ticking clock like that

ime

[Montmorency]

because no mafia gets run up in close wagons like that, when presumably they could have just moved the wagons to one of the other players

This is straight-up false and poorly conceived.

[Stork]

This is straight-up false and poorly conceived.

thats kinda out of context

you have to take the whole point, not just that bit.

[Montmorency]

That's most of your post, but maybe I missed some understanding. What is "noot"?

[BSmith]

if i am a village vig i just shoot him

True, assuming that there is a village vig. It also assumes there is no mechanism the scum have to prevent a night kill. Normal scum teams won’t generally have this, but this is a Zack game. Roles also have “solid cover PMs where appropriate” so this could be a claim of a cover role, and not his actual role.

What would be helpful to all this is if CrimsonFox is able to be online at the update time. He should post who he sent orders to kill immediately before the deadline. This way we can verify who his target was and see how that translates in the write-up, yet not give any time for others to react to the identification of his target before orders lock. This is the only way I can think of that he can prove his claim – and that would likely only be to prove that he has a killing ability, not necessarily that he is town aligned.

[Montmorency]

What would be helpful to all this is if @CrimsonFox is able to be online at the update time. He should post who he sent orders to kill immediately before the deadline. This way we can verify who his target was and see how that translates in the write-up, yet not give any time for others to react to the identification of his target before orders lock. This is the only way I can think of that he can prove his claim – and that would likely only be to prove that he has a killing ability, not necessarily that he is town aligned.

That's dangerously close to spreadsheeting.

I like it.

[Dp101]

That's dangerously close to spreadsheeting.

I like it.

What is spreadsheeting?

[BSmith]

That's dangerously close to spreadsheeting.

I like it.

It's how I roll.


What is spreadsheeting?

Keeping detailed notes/tracking the game in a spreadsheet. It can help to solve the game through analysis. Controversial in its actual use. I tend to be too lazy to actually do it these days, but in a larger game where everyone has a role it is a quite useful tool to remember everything.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Also, keeping track of all the information can be a bit of a pain in the, er, ass.

[El Barto]

Shoot Stork! That way we can save my friends, and Riedquat!Why do you want Riedquat to live? He doesn't seem that town right now.
Have you never watched Futurama, meatbag?

I disagree with. What's wrong with waiting and seeing how other players treat your town reads?
There's something off with Stork's strange uncoöperativeness. His chip needs readjustment.

How do you know?
I don't. That's why I put in that question mark. It's used to express doubt.

[Dp101]

Have you never watched Futurama, meatbag?

Guilty as charged. That's why I sorta-apologised earlier for not roleplaying.

[El Barto]

Have you never watched Futurama, meatbag?Guilty as charged. That's why I sorta-apologised earlier for not roleplaying.
So here goes (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AndZoidberg) in the hope of enlightening your puny brain. Thank my shiny metal ass.

[Dp101]

So here goes (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AndZoidberg) in the hope of enlightening your puny brain. Thank my shiny metal ass.

Consider your shiny metal ass thanked.

[Pelican]

uncoöperativeness.

Bart is town for this great use of a dieresis.

[El Barto]

Consider your shiny metal ass thanked.
My shiny metal ass appreciates this. Wait, it doesn't.

Bart is town for this great use of a dieresis.
It's spelled ‘diæresis’, and I am obviously town.

[Dp101]

Ok, so reads wise right now I like Pelican for having generally solid ideas that are logical. Past that, Cuthillius looks like wrong town, I still kind of dislike stork's extremely brief responses, and I really don't like general's seemingly random tunneling on me around lynch time. I am not a fan of El Barto's posts so far due to how none of his posts feel like they make a case himself, and instead he just jumps onto whatever wagon looks half decent while posting random jokes, but if that is how he normally plays as village I will let it slide for at least one more day. Visor frustrates me, his short posts with definite accusations that have no discernible logic behind them make him seem like mafia just trying to make a case on anyone, but again, if that is how he plays as village then I'm not sure what I'm meant to do because I have nothing to read him on. Winston doesn't feel that great to me right now, his posts again feel a bit non-committal. Novice has kind of fallen off of my radar right now, and no one else has really posted enough for me to have a read on them

[El Barto]

For the record, I play as this when scum as well. Someone show the kid the graph.

[Montmorency]

He can be more subdued as scum.

[Al Sipsclar]

I say El Barto is more crazy when town. When he starts making sense, it's a scumtell.

[El Barto]

How dare you accuse me of making sense, meatbag? My shiny bending ass is offended.

Joke, I ain't offended yet.

[Stork]

That's most of your post, but maybe I missed some understanding. What is "noot"?

neutral

[El Barto]

Then why don't you post in English? Is your database corrupted?

[Zack]

Night One is over. DO NOT POST.

[Zack]

https://i.imgur.com/L7aGFBg.png


https://i.imgur.com/nZN1C3L.png

Smitty: "Reported homicide in this area!"

https://i.imgur.com/X7YFYfv.png

URL: "Suspect found, hot in pursuit."

https://i.imgur.com/nZN1C3L.png

Smitty: "Suspect is armed and dangerous! Wait! Suspect is dead!"

https://i.imgur.com/X7YFYfv.png

URL: "Suspect was the victim?"

https://i.imgur.com/nZN1C3L.png

Smitty: "Suspect is nowhere to be found. I think our job here is done."

https://i.imgur.com/X7YFYfv.png

URL: "Oh, yeah."

-------

"Thanks, I appreciate that. Nah, I'm joshing with you, that was quite annoying!" - El Barto

https://i.imgur.com/N3cnY0y.png



Flexo

Player: El Barto

Role: Flexo (https://theinfosphere.org/Flexo)

Faction: TOWN

CAN TALK AFTER DEATH.
-------

It is now Day Two.

Voting ends in: tunnel snakes rule (note the early deadline, 3pm US Eastern)

[Zack]

Alive: 20

Al Sipsclar
Askthepizzaguy
atheotes
BSmith
Choxorn
CrimsonFox
Cuthillius
Dp101
GeneralHankerchief
johnhughthom
Montmorency
Murska
Newyn
novice
Pelican
Riedquat
seireikhaan
Stork
Visor
Winston Hughes

---

Lynched: 1

d1 - spaceman98 - Leela

---

Killed: 1

n1 - El Barto - Flexo (can talk)

[Zack]

You may now post.

[El Barto]

My metal ass don't shine no more. Wait, it does. It's just dead. this is the voice of Flexo's backup system, broadcasting live from Mom's storage facilities

Thought you'd get Bender, didn't ya, fools?

[Visor]

takhsis getting that role is the worst thing imaginable

[El Barto]

takhsis getting that role is the worst thing imaginable
Good thing I'm not takhsis but El Barto!

Heheheheheheheheh

[Dp101]

Just realised I forgot a couple, Crimson is town and Mont is null.

[Montmorency]

Crimson? Your kill?

[El Barto]

Crimson claims to be a vigilante but doesn't kill anyone (or so he says) and someone (else?) kills me. Not cool, bro. Why wouldn't the mafia attack the vig?

[BSmith]

vote: CrimsonFox . He had tons to say during day but nada when he could have proven his claim? I still don't trust his claim. Did you kill Barto? If so, why and what happened to the mafia kill?

One kill means something isnt adding up here.

[Dp101]

Crimson claims to be a vigilante but doesn't kill anyone (or so he says) and someone (else?) kills me. Not cool, bro. Why wouldn't the mafia attack the vig?

Actually, good point. They probably just think he will be lynched easily because of how suspicious people thought he looked yesterday and the thing you just mentioned. Or I'm WIFOMing, but I'll take that risk.

[Montmorency]

Crimson claims to be a vigilante but doesn't kill anyone (or so he says) and someone (else?) kills me. Not cool, bro. Why wouldn't the mafia attack the vig?

How do you figure? How can we differentiate between whether the killer here was a Vig or an SK or whatever, as opposed to Mafia? Unless these are soft hints from beyond the grave...?

[Montmorency]

As BSmith hinted anyway during the night, the Mafia could skip a kill to try framing Crimson. Straightforward enough. But why would Crimson kill Bart? Seems like a waste...

[Dp101]

How do you figure? How can we differentiate between whether the killer here was a Vig or an SK or whatever, as opposed to Mafia? Unless these are soft hints from beyond the grave...?

Are you suggesting the mafia held their shot?

[Dp101]

Ah, nevermind, xposted.

[Montmorency]

And I see what was wrong with Bart's post. He mentioned Crimson claiming not to have killed last night, but in fact Crimson has not yet posted. So Bart's post can be disregarded.

[El Barto]

How do you figure? How can we differentiate between whether the killer here was a Vig or an SK or whatever, as opposed to Mafia? Unless these are soft hints from beyond the grave...?
You callin' me soft? I'll kill you! Kidding, I can't. My arms are back there with my former body.

As BSmith hinted anyway during the night, the Mafia could skip a kill to try framing Crimson. Straightforward enough. But why would Crimson kill Bart? Seems like a waste...
My point exactly. Doesn't make sense, boyo. And didn't a lot of people say it made no sense for him to claim then?

[El Barto]

And I see what was wrong with Bart's post. He mentioned Crimson claiming not to have killed last night, but in fact Crimson has not yet posted. So Bart's post can be disregarded.
He claimed during the night that he probably wouldn't kill.

[Montmorency]

Not exactly, but let's wait to hear the news.


maybe i just won't shoot anybody, how bout that

[Stork]

dp101 and bsmith likely wolves then right?

or we had v/v/v/v wagons day 1

[Stork]

wolves probably not killing el barto because its pro-village

don't know why people assume that

[Montmorency]

or we had v/v/v/v wagons day 1

What do you mean?

[Montmorency]

wolves probably not killing el barto because its pro-village

don't know why people assume that

Who assumes what now? Please be clearer in your writing.

[Stork]

What do you mean?

elbarto (confirmed v)/spaceman (confirmed v)/Crimson (likely v)/bsmith (unknown)

if they are all villagers people played pretty poorly overall day 1, could happen but seems less likely than one of them being a wolf

[Stork]

Who assumes what now? Please be clearer in your writing.

el barto assumes that he is dead by someone other than crimson fox

when it seems more likely fox shot him (since no scum faction would) and the scum kill was unused/blocked/prevented/etc.

[Dp101]

dp101 and bsmith likely wolves then right?

Why am I a wolf?

[Stork]

Why am I a wolf?

i just kinda think you are a wolf rn

[Montmorency]

Ok, I thought you were using "v" as "villain". I'm not down with your profesh lingo.

As for Barto's death, my complaint would be that all indications were that Fox would choose to pursue a lynch of Bart over a kill, if either at this point. Can you find comments otherwise?

[Dp101]

i just kinda think you are a wolf rn

Well, the feeling was once mutual, and apparently is again.

[Stork]

Ok, I thought you were using "v" as "villain". I'm not down with your profesh lingo.

As for Barto's death, my complaint would be that all indications were that Fox would choose to pursue a lynch of Bart over a kill, if either at this point. Can you find comments otherwise?

the most simple answer is that:
he said he was thinking of shooting el barto
others suggested the same thing
there was one kill
el barto was unlikely to be killed by scum
el barto died

could be more convoluted, though obviously that will be evident when he comes to the thread and says something

if he wanted to lynch him because he thought he was scum there isn't really a reason to not just shoot him, given he can (presumably). More value killing him asap, gaining the information for the town, resolving the wagons etc.

[Stork]

Well, the feeling was once mutual, and apparently is again.

why did you think i was a wolf?

why did you not think i was a wolf later?

and then why do you think i am a wolf now?

[Dp101]

why did you think i was a wolf?

why did you not think i was a wolf later?

and then why do you think i am a wolf now?

Early on I dislike your tone. Your really short responses and quiet start sounded to me like a mafia trying just barely to stay in as an active participant. Then, earlier today, when I made my post about how I felt that I really screwed up the lynch, for some reason you stuck in my mind as someone who was a voice of reason, probably because it was novice's criticism of me that made me realise I was an idiot, thus making me trust him, and he thought you were solid town. Now, you think crimson did the kill, which to me feels very odd given his (seemingly) pacifistic comments, how close El was to the lynch, and crimson IIRC not thinking that El was that scummy, on top of you thinking I am now a wolf for no reason. So there, that is my thoughts around you.

[Stork]

Who do you think killed el barto?

[Montmorency]

if he wanted to lynch him because he thought he was scum there isn't really a reason to not just shoot him, given he can (presumably).

Yes, but he clearly had other scum leans, and he was rather vocal about them. He could probably expect you, novice, DP, and others to join or at least consider a Bart lynch.

Also, he never explicitly said he would vig Bart, or anyone specific. His posts tapered off soon after the reveal.

[Stork]

should generally play for the team, not yourself as the vig imo

i learned that once

[GeneralHankerchief]

Checking in.

I agree that Barto probably wasn't a mafia kill due to him being lynchbait.

Checking out, 'night all.

[Montmorency]

should generally play for the team, not yourself as the vig imo

i learned that once

:sad:

So are you saying a Bart vig would be for the team, or for vendetta? And people once called me cryptic.

Looking back at Crimson's posts, he actually speaks almost entirely for brief and vague comments about BSmith and GH (early on), sniping at Bart, and reacting to his own wagon. Still...

[Dp101]

Who do you think killed el barto?

No clue. Kind of leaning to scum to frame crimson, but we'll see.

[Visor]

Vote: choxorn

[Stork]

:sad:

So are you saying a Bart vig would be for the team, or for vendetta? And people once called me cryptic.

Looking back at Crimson's posts, he actually speaks almost entirely for brief and vague comments about BSmith and GH (early on), sniping at Bart, and reacting to his own wagon. Still...

its for the team because it gives information about how the eod played out, information about the people that voted el barto, information about el bartos reads

if he had of shot off wagon and hit a vt, the info gained would be worth far less

[Stork]

No clue. Kind of leaning to scum to frame crimson, but we'll see.

well thats dumb lmao

[Montmorency]

its for the team because it gives information about how the eod played out, information about the people that voted el barto, information about el bartos reads

if he had of shot off wagon and hit a vt, the info gained would be worth far less

No. You know the saying "two birds with one stone?" If there's valuable information to be obtained from flips, then you force a secondary flip through your vig and then lynch the primary candidate who's lined up anyway. This strategy is the most appropriate, all the more so when it's the first night.

[Riedquat]

No clue. Kind of leaning to scum to frame crimson, but we'll see.

Why frame instead of kill him? O.o

[Dp101]

Why frame instead of kill him? O.o

Because there is a possibility of town doctors believing his claim and protecting him, and also it wastes the lynch.

[Stork]

No. You know the saying "two birds with one stone?" If there's valuable information to be obtained from flips, then you force a secondary flip through your vig and then lynch the primary candidate who's lined up anyway. This strategy is the most appropriate, all the more so when it's the first night.

but now we get to play a whole day without having to wonder about el bartos alignment, which we already did yesterday

[Montmorency]

el bartos alignment, which we already did yesterday

:confused:

And so now we will search for another lynch candidate, about whose alignment we will wonder. This clearly gives town less absolute information then the approach I outlined.

[Stork]

:confused:

And so now we will search for another lynch candidate, about whose alignment we will wonder. This clearly gives town less absolute information then the approach I outlined.

yeah but we have more information for a longer amount of time

and in this information centric text based game i think thats reasonably valuable

we can discuss the specific gto approach of it at some other point, i think your approach has merit though so does mine

:shrug:

[Visor]

crimson is self resolving anyway

i wouldn't worry about it

[Pelican]

Keeping in mind that I want to start the day by following up on one of my reads from last night, I don't like the present conversation between Monty and Stork. I don't really understand why anyone's speculating on the kill and Crimson's role in it until he shows up to comment himself. The stork-Monty interaction right now specifically seems to hit on the same thing that was bugging me about Monty yesterday, that being his generality. It feels like he drifts from commenting on the current situation into more general talk about town strategy. Stork's a participant too I guess, but Stork also fairly consistently makes specific reads with some degree of commitment and I feel like with Monty there's a lot of commentary without committing to anything.

So I'll Vote: Montyto start and check back in the morning to see what's going on.

[Montmorency]

I can't have commitment to specifics without something to believe in.

[novice]

No. You know the saying "two birds with one stone?" If there's valuable information to be obtained from flips, then you force a secondary flip through your vig and then lynch the primary candidate who's lined up anyway. This strategy is the most appropriate, all the more so when it's the first night.
I disagree, but it's a distraction anyway as Pelican points out. I will say though that El Barto was by no means lined up for a lynch. Him flipping VT as the only death is a great N1 result for town.


Keeping in mind that I want to start the day by following up on one of my reads from last night, I don't like the present conversation between Monty and Stork. I don't really understand why anyone's speculating on the kill and Crimson's role in it until he shows up to comment himself. The stork-Monty interaction right now specifically seems to hit on the same thing that was bugging me about Monty yesterday, that being his generality. It feels like he drifts from commenting on the current situation into more general talk about town strategy. Stork's a participant too I guess, but Stork also fairly consistently makes specific reads with some degree of commitment and I feel like with Monty there's a lot of commentary without committing to anything.

So I'll Vote: Montyto start and check back in the morning to see what's going on.

Very good. I'll lend you my vote. Vote: Montmorency.
Don't like BSmith eiher.
Dp101 is all over the place now. Too wrong to be scum? Cuthilius and the one who agreed wholeheartedly, what is your tone read of Dp101 now?

[Dp101]

[QUOTE=novice;2053713745]
Very good. I'll lend you my vote. Vote: Montmorency.
Don't like BSmith eiher.
Dp101 is all over the place now./QUOTE]

Agree with all this, Vote: Montmorency because of his unwillingness to get stuck in the discussion and take/make a stand. Your appraisal of me as all over the place is pretty much how I feel about my own play right now.

[Dp101]

Oh god, I screwed up the tags. Should be obvious when they end though.

[Cuthillius]

DP is still lock town in my books and shall continue to be.

I think Stork is a bit wolfish for "dp and bsmith likely wolves then"

a bit more shade than necessary

visor could be scum

i don't like his behavior before eod

Vote:Stork

[CrimsonFox]

Not exactly, but let's wait to hear the news.

I dinna kill no one

[CrimsonFox]

Keeping in mind that I want to start the day by following up on one of my reads from last night, I don't like the present conversation between Monty and Stork. I don't really understand why anyone's speculating on the kill and Crimson's role in it until he shows up to comment himself.

because maybe they are wolves spewing forth shade on top of me? (or 3p)

[CrimsonFox]

Why frame instead of kill him? O.o

because vig's usually kill lots of villas probably esp day one

maybe my scum reads were totally offtrack day one
i was scumreading elbarto a lot yesterday tho...but then they (i guess) killed him.

which makes me scratch my head. if they left me alive cause they expected me to kill him they probably wouldn't kill him themselves.
so maybe they thought i'd kill someone else instead.

also ya know...they could kill a vig...or maybe they didn't believe me or even if they believed me...they might have gone seer hunting.

[CrimsonFox]

why is el barto talking?

[CrimsonFox]

vote: CrimsonFox . He had tons to say during day but nada when he could have proven his claim? I still don't trust his claim. Did you kill Barto? If so, why and what happened to the mafia kill?

One kill means something isnt adding up here.

you tilt me so much with your hypocritical bullshit

you weren't even here during lynchtime

this is dedicated to you
[Drawing the line here - GH]][/SPOIL]

[CrimsonFox]

why is el barto talking?

so that's his power....talk while dead?

hahahaha prefect for him! Now he can RP without suspicion! :)

and i kinda figured you would never RP as bender AS BENDER...but being flexo is so perfect hehe

[Visor]

So we have a town vig who decided not to shoot (which is the only way to prove his claim).
And the scum team decided to kill El barto instead in order to frame him?

Is that where we are going

[Visor]

you tilt me so much with your hypocritical bullshit

you weren't even here during lynchtime

this is dedicated to you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsMcdEswK8k

this kinda reaction is kinda bonkers when he has a completely valid point

[CrimsonFox]

As BSmith hinted anyway during the night, the Mafia could skip a kill to try framing Crimson. Straightforward enough. But why would Crimson kill Bart? Seems like a waste...

I do not believe for one second that mafia would skip a kill on purpose unless it was to do something else like convert. Convert is the ONLY reason not to kill IMHO

It wasn't me that killed barto. Likely wolves . Yes odd kill but maybe they thought he was seer or something.
If it wasn't mafia kill then it was someone else (3p sk?)

[CrimsonFox]

True, assuming that there is a village vig. It also assumes there is no mechanism the scum have to prevent a night kill. Normal scum teams won’t generally have this, but this is a Zack game. Roles also have “solid cover PMs where appropriate” so this could be a claim of a cover role, and not his actual role.

What would be helpful to all this is if CrimsonFox is able to be online at the update time. He should post who he sent orders to kill immediately before the deadline. This way we can verify who his target was and see how that translates in the write-up, yet not give any time for others to react to the identification of his target before orders lock. This is the only way I can think of that he can prove his claim – and that would likely only be to prove that he has a killing ability, not necessarily that he is town aligned.

This post too pisses me off. No...you are not allowed to tell me when to be here and then decide I am a wolf when i don't follow your bullshit orders. You were not here yesterday at lynchtime....why not?
real life?

gee welcome to the damn club

[CrimsonFox]

anyone wanna guess why i didn't shoot?

may or may not tell you if you are right

[CrimsonFox]

im just clickin buttons friends

so even you don't believe your reads? :)

[Visor]

quit playing games and spit it out

there is only a limited amount of time in the day and you being coy with information is only going to worsen things

[Visor]

Did you shoot? Yes/no?
If so, who did you shoot at?

[CrimsonFox]

Just realised I forgot a couple, Crimson is town and Mont is null.

dp did you make a giant reads post that i missed?
i thank thee for the town read, but this seems like an afterthought to something else. Hope you aren't trying to pocket me but i gotta sort of towny read on you

[CrimsonFox]

I dinna kill no one

the first post i made answered your damn question

[Dp101]

dp did you make a giant reads post that i missed?
i thank thee for the town read, but this seems like an afterthought to something else. Hope you aren't trying to pocket me but i gotta sort of towny read on you

I did, yes. It was a big blob posted ~half an hour before deadline.

[CrimsonFox]

quit playing games and spit it out

there is only a limited amount of time in the day and you being coy with information is only going to worsen things

seriously are you NOT reading ANY of my posts? super wolfy there

[CrimsonFox]

So we have a town vig who decided not to shoot (which is the only way to prove his claim).
And the scum team decided to kill El barto instead in order to frame him?

Is that where we are going

wait a sec...you DID read my posts...you just SAID you know I didn't shoot.....then you bitch at me after this post for not telling you whether I shot or not?

[CrimsonFox]

I did, yes. It was a big blob posted ~half an hour before deadline.

k will go find it. didn't see it on nearby page. thanks

[Dp101]

the first post i made answered your damn question so FU

Sorry, I think he was asking whether or not you deliberately held your shot or were blocked in some way. As I understand it, you didn't shoot, right?

[CrimsonFox]

you guys could just lynch spaceman with me

okay visor....what about spaceman did YOU see so lynchable

[CrimsonFox]

Sorry, I think he was asking whether or not you deliberately held your shot or were blocked in some way. As I understand it, you didn't shoot, right?

correct

[CrimsonFox]

still looking for your big blob.

[novice]

If Crimson is scum and scum want to kill El Barto - then surely Crimson would have done the kill and then claim to have vigged him?

Crimson as scum only makes sense as a double bluff.

[Dp101]

still looking for your big blob.

It is post number 575.

[CrimsonFox]

Ok, so reads wise right now I like Pelican for having generally solid ideas that are logical. Past that, Cuthillius looks like wrong town, I still kind of dislike stork's extremely brief responses, and I really don't like general's seemingly random tunneling on me around lynch time. I am not a fan of El Barto's posts so far due to how none of his posts feel like they make a case himself, and instead he just jumps onto whatever wagon looks half decent while posting random jokes, but if that is how he normally plays as village I will let it slide for at least one more day. Visor frustrates me, his short posts with definite accusations that have no discernible logic behind them make him seem like mafia just trying to make a case on anyone, but again, if that is how he plays as village then I'm not sure what I'm meant to do because I have nothing to read him on. Winston doesn't feel that great to me right now, his posts again feel a bit non-committal. Novice has kind of fallen off of my radar right now, and no one else has really posted enough for me to have a read on them

ah okay...missed it as it was a big stream of consciousness paragraph that i didn't read. :)
was looking for an ordered list.

thanks for finding it for me bud

[Dp101]

ah okay...missed it as it was a big stream of consciousness paragraph that i didn't read. :)
was looking for an ordered list.

thanks for finding it for me bud

NP, still working on figuring out a standardised format for read lists. I really dislike the ones that are literally just a sequence of names from most to least scummy, but I have yet to find a good alternative.

[CrimsonFox]

If Crimson is scum and scum want to kill El Barto - then surely Crimson would have done the kill and then claim to have vigged him?

Crimson as scum only makes sense as a double bluff.

single bluff really. i mean. "if i'm not vig at all"
then again i've just suffered through a game where everyone claims seer not as the seer and were not scum..

but why wouldn'ti just claim seer.

[CrimsonFox]

but that's irrelevant. I'm not going to force ideas on what i am to you.
Because I know it means nothing coming from me. You guys form your own conclusions.

[CrimsonFox]

NP, still working on figuring out a standardised format for read lists. I really dislike the ones that are literally just a sequence of names from most to least scummy, but I have yet to find a good alternative.

something like

A - scummy because X

b - Slightly scummy because

C- towny because Y


something like that

[CrimsonFox]

your reads dp have mimicked mine at various times during this game. Some of my views have changed however

[CrimsonFox]

oh and this one changed again...
third time's the charm

vote: bsmith

[CrimsonFox]

taking a shower and then maybe a snack and tv.

bbl

[Stork]

DP is still lock town in my books and shall continue to be.

I think Stork is a bit wolfish for "dp and bsmith likely wolves then"

a bit more shade than necessary

visor could be scum

i don't like his behavior before eod

Vote:Stork

wanna tdome?

[Stork]

Vote: Cuthillius

[novice]

so that's his power....talk while dead?

All vanilla townies can talk while dead.


I have Barto as null for the most part, but after going back and checking the Cuthilius/novice exchange I think it's a good look on him, especially if the flips go correctly.

What did you mean here, GeneralHankerchief?

[novice]

Ah, Pelican was the one who agreed on Cuthillius' lock town read on Dp101.


Cuthillius feels off but his GitP play (which I'm more used to) is always way different from his play in these fast paced games and it throws me off every time. What's messing with my head especially this time is that I very strongly agree with him on DP. That's my only really strong town lean right now.

Do you still think DP is town, Pelican?

[novice]

In other news, I should let you all know that I've been summoned to a military training exercise starting tomorrow and lasting until Tuesday afternoon. My ability to participate in this game will be spotty at best. So I may miss night 2 and day 3 in its entirety. Sorry about this, it wasn't on my radar when I signed up.

[Murska]

anyone wanna guess why i didn't shoot?

may or may not tell you if you are right

Because you're not vig?

Vote: Montmorency for now, because I generally agree with Pelican.

[CrimsonFox]

All vanilla townies can talk while dead.


*blink blink*

[atheotes]

time to catch up. Whats happening?

[Montmorency]

So, now we have a wagon of out-of-towners on me because their thought processes align beautifully and they demand specific and regular reports on reads. Well first of all, let me tell you that I will not cater to your preferred playstyle. I don't do reads. I might give out a hunch here and there, but generally I have little faith in "reads", far less even than the elaborate full-blown cases a player might make later in the game. Lump it.

I do not believe you all are a hive mind or scum group, just similar enough as to be interchangeable. Give the same courtesy to your critics.

And DP, what is your position on Bart now, in light of Crimson's claim? Was he or was he not lynchbait?

[Dp101]

I think he was still lynchbait.

[Riedquat]

My hunch is the exactly the opposite Monty, first a wagon over Barto with people who never played with him, then mafia killed Barto (Why???) and now a bunch of people who never played with you are wagoning you and I don't have a clue why... :(

The vigilante didn't kill just because and now we all are wondering if he is another thing... good logic... no!

All newbie are scum or they have hive mind you mentioned! Very improbable I know... but that is the feeling!

[GeneralHankerchief]

Moderator note: I've edited some posts for content. No game-worthy information has been altered. Please try to be more courteous with each other in the future and tone down the language somewhat.

[GeneralHankerchief]

What did you mean here, GeneralHankerchief?

The way the votes went down at the time I made that post, I said that because of what my reads were (Cuth town, novice scummy) and where Barto's vote was, it was a good look on Barto if the flips matched my reads. This has mostly petered out by now.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Other musings:

I think the wagon on Monty is off base. This is his style. That said, Pelican is still town here.

I'd still like to hear an explanation from DP about his discrepancy regarding his read on CrimsonFox.

CrimsonFox is probably town by this point.

Vote: DP101

[BSmith]

you tilt me so much with your hypocritical bullshit

you weren't even here during lynchtime

this is dedicated to you
<snip>




This post too pisses me off. No...you are not allowed to tell me when to be here and then decide I am a wolf when i don't follow your bullshit orders. You were not here yesterday at lynchtime....why not?
real life?

gee welcome to the damn club

You are beginning to cross the line here in my opinion. Play the game, not the player. Attack the post, not the poster. And please multi-quote or compose your thoughts before posting. There is no need for 5 consecutive posts in 5 minutes from a single poster.

I think my suggestion was perfectly acceptable. You made a claim that I am asking you to prove – that you are a Vig. You were online and very active in both RL days during D1 in the hours leading up to the end of the phase. It is a logical assumption that you would be online at the same time the next day during the night phase. Your absence could certainly be due to RL. I get that. But an alternative scenario is that you avoided posting at all so that you could avoid having to respond to my request. Your edginess and defensiveness is leading me to believe the latter is the case. My activity or timeline for being online has absolutely no bearing on when you can be online and posting. You made the claim to be a vig. I’m asking you to prove it.

On the matter of being a vig… A vig should always kill. Not doing so is abdicating a powerful tool that the town has to find and eliminate the mafia. Sure there is a high chance of getting a villager in the early stages, but if you don’t use it there is zero chance of finding a wolf. Just about any reasoning or logic behind the target selection will also reduce the risks of hitting a villager and will only increase the chances of getting a wolf. Always. Kill.

Same thing for the lynch. The town should always lynch. Period.

Claiming vig and then not using the ability is even worse than just sitting back and quietly not killing as a vig. It draws a lot of attention to you and has a significant potential to draw a doctor or watcher/tracker to you, potentially wasting their efforts as well – especially if you don’t use your ability.

A doctor is going to protect you so you can use the ability – not so you can sit on your hands and dither. A tracker/watcher is likely to check you out to verify your claim. Not killing wastes their time and prevents them from tracking/watching someone else, and potentially finding a real wolf.

Fake claiming vig also wastes these role’s abilities as they attempt to verify/protect you when they could be out doing real work. It is also a very selfish move that focuses attention on you and not on finding the real scum. If you fake claimed, please fess up now (or did you already do that but weren’t that clear about it?).

As much as I don’t like your posting, I don’t think scum would play like you have. So, unvote for now.

[Montmorency]

I think he was still lynchbait.

Good. Yes. Now, who were the likeliest voters?

Evidently you, Crimson, novice, Stork - and Winston Hughes. Riddle me that.

[Montmorency]

I like your post, BSmith, but I have to qualify that (in the late-game), zealous vigs have a very mixed record. Vigs who "save" their kills for their later hunches have a high chance of being misled and wiping out town voting blocs. In other words, they should be killing regularly from the beginning, until they have reason to stop.

And speaking of voting blocs...

[Dp101]

I think the wagon on Monty is off base. This is his style. That said, Pelican is still town here.

I'd still like to hear an explanation from DP about his discrepancy regarding his read on CrimsonFox.

Vote: DP101

Again, I said that they might be more scummy if it looked like they claimed vig just to be able to kill freely, but also, remember my post during the night about how everything I posted around lynchtime was horrifically bad and I no longer supported most of the things I said there? I was an idiot for even posting my stupid thoughts about the claim, as all it has led to is people like you thinking that they represent my entire read on that person.

Also, getting really tired of every time I vote for someone "Oh no, he always plays like that". Not entirely sure how I am meant to play if I'm seemingly not allowed to vote for half the things I see. You guys agreed before the game only to let offsiters lynch offsiters and locals lynch locals?

[Montmorency]

You just said in the same breath the things you saw were wrong. What changed for these new things you see?

[Dp101]

Good. Yes. Now, who were the likeliest voters?

Evidently you, Crimson, novice, Stork - and Winston Hughes. Riddle me that.

Huh, I get your case now. Still, not everyone on that lineup is necessarily agreeing with each other, Winston was off on his own before he went silent. I disagree with the implied pairing of me and crimson here. If you hadn't noticed, my posting towards him was primarily intended to untilt him so I could actually see how he posts without half the town jumping down his threat (more like a third, but you get my point). If we were mafia, I would be trying to calm him down in the mafia thread rather than here.

As for Novice, you are right, I have been rather close to him. But, as you may have noticed from my reads post, I really don't know how to interpret the play of a lot of the people here, so is it any wonder I gravitate towards someone I understand? Right now I am a little worried that my familiarity is blinding me, but I'm really trying hard to find someone I can rely on, so I have to take chances.

For Stork, yesterday I really wasn't agreeing with him much at all, would I really switch completely to secure just one mislynch (evidently you do as that's what you think I'm doing now, but for the sake of argument)? The fact that El is dead and IIRC thought that Stork was town makes him look much better in my eyes, and without that he might still be in my scum camp.

[Dp101]

You just said in the same breath the things you saw were wrong. What changed for these new things you see?

I calmed down, earlier I was panicking a bit. Still not convinced I'm completely right, but I'm pretty sure I'm not completely wrong.

[Montmorency]

You didn't get my point, which admittedly has to be placed in context of the next phases. First, let me clarify that I'm not saying that you were scum buttressing each other, or even that one of you is scum and relying on these relationships to hide (this could be a separate position, but not one I see currently). What I am saying is that you guys, despite your disagreements, have very similar approaches and work together more often than not. The odd one out being Winston.

[Dp101]

I work with them even though I disagree with some of them sometimes because town can be wrong and their reads still kind of make sense so I am willing to trust them. Really I just want one of them to die so I can figure out their alignment, but unfortunately that would probably come at the cost of losing another town.

[Riedquat]

Also, getting really tired of every time I vote for someone "Oh no, he always plays like that". Not entirely sure how I am meant to play if I'm seemingly not allowed to vote for half the things I see. You guys agreed before the game only to let offsiters lynch offsiters and locals lynch locals?

Sorry, that is not the intention, but is how things are playing out. Yet is probable you people see things scummy perhaps because they are scummy indeed and we don't see them because we got used to them. IMHO Barto was playing as he always did and Monty is doing as-well, but I'm not saying he is town, I lean to think he is but is just my opinion.

[Dp101]

Oh wait, Monty, was your point that Winston is mafia because he is the odd one out?

[novice]

As much as I don’t like your posting, I don’t think scum would play like you have. So, unvote for now.

Way to bury the lead... While also changing your opinion during a post.

[Montmorency]

Preface: Currently Fox is almost certainly town or (at worst) third-party.

Possibly, but to be more specific if Winston were Mafia he could have eliminated the focus of your bloc's attention to generate a new target for mislynch. This would work because your bloc would, even if not uniting on a single candidate, make a concerted push for your own targets, leading to town-on-town wagons for Mafia to hide in.

[Visor]

I think bsmith is town

i think monty is town

i think this wagon is weird

i think novice might be scum

[novice]

Monty, what exactly do you mean by lynchbait?

[Visor]

Vote: novice

[Montmorency]

Exactly what I've been going through, that he would take the center stage for the day.

[BSmith]

Also, getting really tired of every time I vote for someone "Oh no, he always plays like that". Not entirely sure how I am meant to play if I'm seemingly not allowed to vote for half the things I see. You guys agreed before the game only to let offsiters lynch offsiters and locals lynch locals?

Vote for who you think you need to vote for. Damn the rest of us.

Seriously, as long as you are putting forth ideas and discussion, there is nothing wrong with your play. Don’t swallow your own intuition because you think you might not fit in.



I like your post, BSmith, but I have to qualify that (in the late-game), zealous vigs have a very mixed record. Vigs who "save" their kills for their later hunches have a high chance of being misled and wiping out town voting blocs. In other words, they should be killing regularly from the beginning, until they have reason to stop.

And speaking of voting blocs...

Yes, my main point is that a vig should kill at every opportunity.


Way to bury the lead... While also changing your opinion during a post.

Meh. I came to that conclusion after writing everything out. And I don’t think I have changed my opinion. Fox needs to clear the air on his claim. There are a ton of irregularities concerning him and that is what is drawing my attention, for better or worse.

[Pelican]

Ah, Pelican was the one who agreed on Cuthillius' lock town read on Dp101.



Do you still think DP is town, Pelican?

Short answer: Yes.

I think DP has been pretty transparent in a way that would be hard to fake. I just don't see his posts being sneaky rather than genuine.




Meh. I came to that conclusion after writing everything out. And I don’t think I have changed my opinion. Fox needs to clear the air on his claim. There are a ton of irregularities concerning him and that is what is drawing my attention, for better or worse.

Wanted to comment on BSmith's changing of his opinion mid post, because that is something I have often done as town and almost always gotten wolf read afterwards. I think it's a very town thing to do. I think wolves prefer to construct their cases and try to make them look just right, where town have nothing to lose by following a "write to think" approach. I've been on the fence about BSmith, but I'm leaning slightly town.

As for the idea that this is how Monty always plays, I think that it's awfully convenient. Looking at his posts in light of the meta comments, it seems like there are people he thinks might be maf, I just have no idea what he as a villager nor village as a whole has to gain by his refusal to just come out and say it. On the other hand, it's easy to see why as a wolf, he would be afraid of being held accountable for his opinions.

[novice]

Exactly what I've been going through, that he would take the center stage for the day.

Thanks, I was crossposting a bit at the time but just wanted to get the definitions straight.


Good. Yes. Now, who were the likeliest voters?

Evidently you, Crimson, novice, Stork - and Winston Hughes. Riddle me that.


You didn't get my point, which admittedly has to be placed in context of the next phases. First, let me clarify that I'm not saying that you were scum buttressing each other, or even that one of you is scum and relying on these relationships to hide (this could be a separate position, but not one I see currently). What I am saying is that you guys, despite your disagreements, have very similar approaches and work together more often than not. The odd one out being Winston.


Preface: Currently Fox is almost certainly town or (at worst) third-party.

Possibly, but to be more specific if Winston were Mafia he could have eliminated the focus of your bloc's attention to generate a new target for mislynch. This would work because your bloc would, even if not uniting on a single candidate, make a concerted push for your own targets, leading to town-on-town wagons for Mafia to hide in.

Sorry, I'm probably being very dense at the moment but I'm still not sure what you're saying. Spell it out? I mean, if you're testing us to see if we're able to figure it out for ourselves, just flunk me.

Okay, so Winston could have used his bond with us to dispel the El Barto wagon. Assuming that's true, the fact that he didn't tells us... what?

And what timeframe are we talking about here, remember that the deadline was in the middle of the night for Winston and myself, at least I think it was.

[Zack]

Moderator note: I've edited some posts for content. No game-worthy information has been altered. Please try to be more courteous with each other in the future and tone down the language somewhat.
Thank you GH.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Six pages of pure blahblahblah and you failed to lynch bartito? lol

Monty is being monty, as always... same goes for visor, very good reader of people/personalities, very useful when townie but a real pain in the ass when he is scum, good luck reading them!

And honestly El Barto was being himself, as he always does as town and from my experience he usually get lynched early in game for the same behavior.
I'd lynch Riedquat based purely on this post. Not impressed by the content so far, but this post in particular is drive-by scum.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Why frame instead of kill him? O.o
Feels like padding his content here.

[Askthepizzaguy]

time to catch up. Whats happening?
Don't know what atheotes is doing here. This was followed by silence.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Khaan going to go out on a limb and suggest is town based on the spite vote. I don't think that'd be characteristic of his scum style.

When was the last time you were scum in a game, @khaan?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Town murska, to be rescinded if he's only been voting for townies so far.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Don't like any of Newyn's votes so far. If alive in 3 rounds, kill.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Nothing jumps out at me about Al but he seems fine.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Pelican town 461:

"Biggest wolf vibes are from Murska, ATPG, and Montmomrency"

Poking either strong wolves or decent townies who aren't consensus scum here. The fact that it is multiple players in such a category gets him the poking the bear town tell. Never lynch this person.

[Askthepizzaguy]

BSmith's "footprint" is small even though his word count is high. I'm not looking for a high post count but if you have the time to type out that much content it needs to have more content in it. You're focusing too much on one player and that's a great way to be unreadable.

Would consider voting.

[Askthepizzaguy]

@ General


I'm actually taking a third option here, liking Cuthilius the best and he's going after novice.

Vote: novice

Of course, since Barto is also voting for novice I have CrimsonFox more likely to be maf than Barto and will vote that way if it comes down to it.

What did you see before this point in the game that leads to a town lean? There's nothing there I'd consider a positive indicator, and you're making him the most townie person in the game. Walk me through that.


Ugh stupid tally was outdated. Ignore me. Back to fully null for you.

And Crimson, this is pretty much in line with his D1 meta.

What are you seeing/looking for in Barto's posts that causes you to move your opinion about him so quickly? His tone always looks the same to me and he's not super heavy on content. He's someone I'd comfortably put a question mark over and try to read more readable people.


Other musings:

I think the wagon on Monty is off base. This is his style. That said, Pelican is still town here.

I'd still like to hear an explanation from DP about his discrepancy regarding his read on CrimsonFox.

CrimsonFox is probably town by this point.

Vote: DP101
Why do you think the Monty wagon is off base, is he town (if so, why) or is he null and the reasoning is bad?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Winston Hughes town based purely off of page 1 alone. Let me know if I missed something important.

[Askthepizzaguy]

No bet on novice. I don't have any meta and I'm not going to deny myself the opportunity to gain more.

As for Cuth, I'm re-isoing him now.

[Murska]

ATPG flood. I like it.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Murska, where are you on Cuth right now? My feelings are being tempered a bit by this iso.

If he's scum he's got exactly the style that I like from scumbags. I just know he's capable of it.

[Askthepizzaguy]

That's as much as I can do for this 24-hour period. Really low energy all day, didn't even want to look at the thread.

My standard would be to look at all the heavy posters first and engage them first, I was not willing to invest an hour on three talkers and have the rest of the game be blanks.

We'll see if I can do better tomorrow (24hr period).

[Askthepizzaguy]

I shall vote for atheo-quat. Unfortunately I only have one vote.

Let's go with Reidquat. I want to see StarFox atheotes soon.

Vote: Reidquat

[Cuthillius]

Pizza's town.

[Dp101]

Pizza's town.

Agreed.

[CrimsonFox]

time to catch up. Whats happening?


Things wolves say for $100, alex

[CrimsonFox]

And DP, what is your position on Bart now, in light of Crimson's claim? Was he or was he not lynchbait?

you've lost me.

you mean el barto? he's dead right?
so who cares?

[Murska]

Murska, where are you on Cuth right now? My feelings are being tempered a bit by this iso.

If he's scum he's got exactly the style that I like from scumbags. I just know he's capable of it.

I don't like him. I've been close to voting for him a few times, but have decided otherwise because I don't have anything solid and there's no momentum anyway.

[Montmorency]

Pelican, what nonsense. Vote: Pelican.


Sorry, I'm probably being very dense at the moment but I'm still not sure what you're saying. Spell it out? I mean, if you're testing us to see if we're able to figure it out for ourselves, just flunk me.

Okay, so Winston could have used his bond with us to dispel the El Barto wagon. Assuming that's true, the fact that he didn't tells us... what?

And what timeframe are we talking about here, remember that the deadline was in the middle of the night for Winston and myself, at least I think it was.

I don't think you understood what I am saying. The fact that you display bloc-like behavior would be motivation to remove Bart and have the next day monopolized by your cases, especially if those cases are all based against non-mafia. Non-mafia would thus be preoccupied with each other for a day phase. It doesn't mean that Winston is scum, but that it's especially nice if Winston is scum as it removes all commitment made during the Bart phase.

[CrimsonFox]

Good. Yes. Now, who were the likeliest voters?

Evidently you, Crimson, novice, Stork - and Winston Hughes. Riddle me that.

still not understanding this conversation.

lynchbait meaning was someone pushed by wolves?
not sure the term.

what's that list? i didn't vote for el barto
at least i didn't end up there

[Zack]

Official Tally

4 Montmorency (Pelican, novice, Dp101, Murska)

1 BSmith (CrimsonFox)
1 CrimsonFox (BSmith)
1 Cuthillius (Stork)
1 Dp101 (GeneralHankerchief)
1 novice (Visor)
1 Pelican (Montmorency)
1 Riedquat (Askthepizzaguy)
1 Stork (Cuthillius)

---

2 Not Voting: atheotes, Riedquat

6 Not Posting: Al Sipsclar, Choxorn, johnhughthom, Newyn, seireikhaan, Winston Hughes

---

Voting ends in: tunnel snakes rule

[CrimsonFox]

Pelican, what nonsense. Vote: Pelican.



I don't think you understood what I am saying. The fact that you display bloc-like behavior would be motivation to remove Bart and have the next day monopolized by your cases, especially if those cases are all based against non-mafia. Non-mafia would thus be preoccupied with each other for a day phase. It doesn't mean that Winston is scum, but that it's especially nice if Winston is scum as it removes all commitment made during the Bart phase.

i wasn't crazy about pelican's answers at times myself.

However, several people immediately trumpeted "pelican is town" when he posted. were you under that impression?

[Montmorency]

lynchbait meaning was someone pushed by wolves?
not sure the term.

Lynchbait simply means 'popular candidate for lynch carrying over rounds". Stop it.


what's that list? i didn't vote for el barto
at least i didn't end up there

I'm not confining it to the last hours of the day, obviously. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxnsmsXYGJ4)

[johnhughthom]

Mmmm, lot's of sexual tension in the thread, I like it. Ha ha ah ha ha.

Or is it just tension?

Vote: Winston Hughes

He's alive right?

If he's not... there's a thought, haven't tried THAT before.

Djambi, to the robot graveyard, quick before they rust!

On second thoughts, do take your time.

[Montmorency]

Pelican is :coffeenews:.

[CrimsonFox]

Mmmm, lot's of sexual tension in the thread, I like it. Ha ha ah ha ha.

Or is it just tension?



https://cdn.meme.am/instances/23703723.jpg

[CrimsonFox]

I don't like him. I've been close to voting for him a few times, but have decided otherwise because I don't have anything solid and there's no momentum anyway.

go on...

what don't you like about him

[Murska]

I feel like he's not trying to scumhunt.

[novice]

Official Tally

6 spaceman98 (Visor, Cuthillius, Montmorency, GeneralHankerchief, CrimsonFox, El Barto)

4 BSmith (spaceman98, Dp101, seireikhaan, Al Sipsclar)
4 CrimsonFox (BSmith, Pelican, atheotes, Choxorn)
4 El Barto (Riedquat, Newyn, Winston Hughes, Stork)

2 Cuthillius (Askthepizzaguy, Murska)

1 GeneralHankerchief (novice)
1 Winston Hughes (johnhughthom)

---

1 Not Voting: El Barto

---

Voting ends in: tunnel snakes rule


I don't think you understood what I am saying. The fact that you display bloc-like behavior would be motivation to remove Bart and have the next day monopolized by your cases, especially if those cases are all based against non-mafia. Non-mafia would thus be preoccupied with each other for a day phase. It doesn't mean that Winston is scum, but that it's especially nice if Winston is scum as it removes all commitment made during the Bart phase.

I very much didn't understand, so thanks for elaborating. So the five of us, who ended up on four different targets, were supposed to form a bloc pursuing these targets, and Bart was killed to facilitate this?

Why not let us pursue Bart as the first target?

I mean I'm probably still misunderstanding, but at any rate this seems like a pretty intricate theory. Weirdly specific, to put it another way. As if it's influenced by your own motivation for killing Bart.

[Dp101]

Sorry Monty, but if you want to turn this into you vs Pelican I'm siding with Pelican every time. At least I can understand his cases.

[novice]

That last bit is a bit snipey, I apologize if you're town, doing my best to get on your wavelength.

[CrimsonFox]

No bet on novice. I don't have any meta and I'm not going to deny myself the opportunity to gain more.

As for Cuth, I'm re-isoing him now.

you have isos? how?

[novice]

Well, let's see. Early on, Riedquat made a typical arbitrary vote on Barto. Afterwards CrimsonFox made his "serious" vote on Bart after pressure from GH and Visor. At the time, Stork had been leading in the vote, and Crimson had no votes. Then, recently, Newyn changed his vote onto him ostensibly to deflect from Crimson, and 2 more votes quickly followed (including from you) for some really half-baked reasons, even given what we have seen so far here. After Newyn, Novice called Bart's posts the scummiest of the day after prompting from DP, who then switched to Bart because he didn't like the Crimson lynch and found it a better prospect to build the Barto wagon. Then you voted.

Sordid stuff.

How do you interpret this now, Monty?

[Montmorency]

How do you interpret this now, Monty?

There's a disagreement between us in style, I suppose exacerbated by what I see as bad cases (GH, BSmith, and yes, still Bart). I've been caught up more on discrediting you as a group in my own mind. :shrug:

[Cuthillius]

The Mont wagon feels really lazy

I don't think he's a wolf if only for that reason

[El Barto]

First part of my thread review:

Who do you think killed el barto?
My killer killed me, dummy.

I agree that Barto probably wasn't a mafia kill due to him being lynchbait.
Do you seriously think I would have been lynched on Day Two? What am I, Double A?

I can't have commitment to specifics without something to believe in.
Believe in my townieness, baby.

why is el barto talking?
'Cos this shiny metall ass is a vanilla townie metal ass. Read them rules, man.

and i kinda figured you would never RP as bender AS BENDER...but being flexo is so perfect hehe
Who the hell says I can't be a bender? I am a Bending Unit. With a stylish goatee.

taking a shower and then maybe a snack and tv.

bbl
Pre-announced absences? So. Dang. Scummy.

[El Barto]

For Stork, yesterday I really wasn't agreeing with him much at all, would I really switch completely to secure just one mislynch (evidently you do as that's what you think I'm doing now, but for the sake of argument)? The fact that El is dead and IIRC thought that Stork was town makes him look much better in my eyes, and without that he might still be in my scum camp.
No, no, no, and no. I thought Stork was mafia and none of you guys have done anything to change that.

Lynch Stork and Riedquat.

[Dp101]

No, no, no, and no. I thought Stork was mafia and none of you guys have done anything to change that.

Lynch Stork and Riedquat.

Goddammit, I'm an idiot. Sorry for misremembering.

[El Barto]

I'd roll my photorreceptors if I still had any.

[Winston Hughes]

Having a very rough time in RL atm.

I want to be playing this, for the escapism if nothing else, but my brain is a mess and I'm nowhere near up to speed with the thread.

[Winston Hughes]

Winston Hughes town based purely off of page 1 alone. Let me know if I missed something important.

How do you feel about Visor reading me scummish for that early stuff?

[novice]

Sorry to hear that, Winston.

El Barto, I'm okay with lynching Riedquat. What are your thoughts on Monty?