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Montmorency
12-30-2016, 20:10
BSmith Visor

As of now no one is getting elected Rep. One of you probably has to vote the other for Rep.

Schema
12-30-2016, 20:11
Okay, but it worries me that you have posted that much without really advancing toward solving anything

Only so much can be done in an hour. Here's what I've got:

I've ISO'd Fenn and Fenn feels forced but too low-impact to be a good idea to lynch today.

Looking at Visor's reaction to Cuth being town after flip reminds me a little of a reaction he had in another scum game, and that is not sitting well with me. The fact that he claims to have had such success in his early reads (about 50/50 rn?) while still being alive bugs me a bit.

You've got a nice focus on me... and only me... is anyone else here EOD that is worth looking into? Where are the votes going and are there any you don't trust?

BSmith
12-30-2016, 20:13
verywell. unvote; vote: Visor

Zack
12-30-2016, 20:14
Only so much can be done in an hour. Here's what I've got:

I've ISO'd Fenn and Fenn feels forced but too low-impact to be a good idea to lynch today.

Looking at Visor's reaction to Cuth being town after flip reminds me a little of a reaction he had in another scum game, and that is not sitting well with me. The fact that he claims to have had such success in his early reads (about 50/50 rn?) while still being alive bugs me a bit.

You've got a nice focus on me... and only me... is anyone else here EOD that is worth looking into? Where are the votes going and are there any you don't trust?

Can you be more specific with the Visor thing?

Schema
12-30-2016, 20:14
Monty/Winston/Zack/Visor
...
Gonna compare Schema/Fenn. Gut's been more bothered by Fenn.

The underlined is my really unhappy place.

The Monty/Winston/Visor trio in particular.

Cass_
12-30-2016, 20:16
Late, but the weird insistence on lynching Cuthillius regardless of whether he was the scummiest player, the many cryptic posts that I thought were deliberately unclear, and the whole 'Csargo slot is probably lolscum' bugged me. Generally his posts feel unhelpful to me, but he's said some things I find reasonable (Winston's recent behaviour is just bizarre imo) too, so I'm finding it hard to get a read on him. I get the impression he has this unique posting style as town or scum, but I've never played with him before.

Recent proliferation of votes on Schema I don't like, could be wolves in there. Going to try and skim over Renata before EoD.


Fenn is a villager i think

Like 80% sure maybe 85

I can understand the view on Monty, but Cuth/Barto Schema/Riedquat/Sips progression wierds me out


What about this post?

- Brushes off El B concern,
- Mentions Cuth's lynch looks suspicions, Cuth's recent posts look Towny,
- Doesn't reconsider/move off Cuth



Monstr, I must be pretty dumb because I don't see how that quoted El Barto post screams scum. I mean your posts do have a stream-of-consciousness quality to them (a towny sign imo). Would town Barto really word that post differently?

Anyway.

Paranoia says that Visor and Zack pushing Cuth D2 was suspiciously coordinated, buuut I did like eg Visor's interactions with Monty and Zack in general, and my only doubt on Cuth scum is that he's sounded almost too scummy to be scum, so I'm only going to think more about that if Cuth is lynched and flips town.

Current read list, roughly ordered:

definitely villagers:
Atheotes
Renata
Cass

probably villager:
Monstrbro
Visor
Zack

(Would preferentially vote any of the above as rep if they had been in my district)

villager lean:
Winston
Schema
Reidquat
Al Sipsclar

no idea:
Jabbz
BSmith
Montmorency (lot of posts, and I agree with him wrt districting and Cuth...but weird tone I don't like)

scum lean:
dicetosser
El Barto

probably scum:
Cuthillius (strangely find his last few posts villagery, but his earlier stuff still makes me think scum)

Vote: Cuthillius

and this was off the back of:



Oh and the districts are out. D1 doesn't look ideal which I guess is the point, but wouldn't it have been better to have spread out all the people who seem scummy?

Anyway, Vote: Schema for being the towniest + not a lurker. I like their progression on D1, generally get a towny vibe from their posts.

Sheeps Schema (who was voting Cuth) ^ but hasn't read/has incorrect ideas on her play (The Towny Schema pushed/voted was GH, not Sooh); Top lynch choice Cuth, El Barto can wait/is less suspicious if Cuth is a wolf.


If I was playing D1 I would have pushed Sooh too, at least until the PR claim (and IIRC Schema backed off at that point). APart from that I thought Schema did pretty well explaining her reasoning for her reads. And of course I'd like to be the rep, but I don't forsee getting elected. SOmebody has to vote for another person.

Top lynch choice right now is Cuthillius. El Barto maybe, but I think he can wait for later and he is less suspicious if Cuth is a wolf. I still haven't gotten around to doing the D2 reread like I was planning, need to ISO Riedquat and Schema too and compare them.


ISO's Riedquat, doesn't seem to care who leads out of Riedquat/Schema

ok well the riedquat ISO didn't take long at all. Not a fan of the self-effacing tone, but points for being clear and direct I guess. I could be persuaded to elect him. Riedquat who would you lynch if you had your way?

Tone here's not bad. Only gives opinion on Schema after being chased up. Sticks with vote on Cuth. Like's Al Sips on tone.


Went back and ISO'd her, still think she's villagery. Interactions with Renata sounded natural; good response to Cuth's Sooh-pushing shenanigans EoD1; voting self for rep D2 was a bit odd and still unexplained though. Hasn't posted since the 24th so it would be nice if she could return and give thoughts.

Related, early D2 Montmorency pushing for wolf/town in Visor/Cuth and lynching Visor first for no reasons given that I could find. Also didn't seem to be concerned about Renata's vote for him, and I don't think anybody else really went after him? Gut says possible scum trying to straddle the line between too towny too live and too scummy not to lynch.


Yes I have reservations about Cuthillius, it's possible he's town. I'm not going to pretend to be more certain than I actually am. Still think he's the scummiest player around.


Atheotes' posting has a town perspective to it in general. Add to that and he was pushing for Cuth or Chox to be lynched EoD1 which looks good for him in light of Chox's flip. Hasn't coasted on this either, he's still contributing and trying to solve.

Al Sips is just a feeling. I like his tone, and reasons for reads that he gave.


Vote: Fenn just in case.

Cass_
12-30-2016, 20:19
Zack

Reasons for Schema over Fenn?

Fenn
12-30-2016, 20:20
Renata's recent reads in brief, in reverse order:

#2825 Thinks Al Sips looks fine, town lean
#2796 Could see Zack as scum, but wants to focus on El Barto/Cuthillius/"low-hanging fruit" first
#2766 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152347-Representative-Democracy-In-Play&p=2053732143&viewfull=1#post2053732143) Disputes Jabbz's theory that scum framed Zack by killing Dp; speculates it could be sign of Zack/Jabbz scum pair if not for their D1 antagonism
#2764 Disagrees that dicetosser is scum.
#2578 (and surrounding posts) Disputes that Monty's D2 summary of chocorn was town-sided; found him scummy because of leaving some things out.

#2570:
Monstr, you keep reading Cuth as strong town. What are you thinking of how everyone's reacting to him? Most particularly those who have pushed the case the hardest? I don't see Visor or Zack on your mafia list, why not?

#2562:Is unsure about Monty's alignment, but thinks he's probably too chatty for scum. Wants to see him be right about somebody/something.
#2556 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152347-Representative-Democracy-In-Play&p=2053731909&viewfull=1#post2053731909):Quoted a big reads post by me where I pushed Cuthillius; responded with "He [Cuth]'s totally town, isn't he?"
#2477: Sees merit in Cuth's scumread of me.
#2470: Finds it weird how Cass/Zack/Monty are arguing for Barto=scum but not actually trying to get him lynched. (also see #2459 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152347-Representative-Democracy-In-Play&p=2053731810&viewfull=1#post2053731810))
(several posts in this area about how scummy Cuthillius is looking)
#2431 Dicetosser has more towny-ness in his posts than El Barto ever did.
#2429 Riedqaut sounds like town-self from last game, tentatively.
#2414 Quotes Schema posts that bothers her (about theory that wolves want to get a wolf rep elected in Dp's place)

#2413 Agrees Cuth needs to die D3, paranoid about Zack but wants to wait.

Stopping at page 80 for now.

Monstrdude
12-30-2016, 20:22
Yeah Fenn is fine to die

Schema
12-30-2016, 20:22
I can understand the view on Monty, but Cuth/Barto Schema/Riedquat/Sips progression wierds me out

What about this post?

- Brushes off El B concern,
- Mentions Cuth's lynch looks suspicions, Cuth's recent posts look Towny,
- Doesn't reconsider/move off Cuth


and this was off the back of:


Sheeps Schema (who was voting Cuth) ^ but hasn't read/has incorrect ideas on her play (The Towny Schema pushed/voted was GH, not Sooh); Top lynch choice Cuth, El Barto can wait/is less suspicious if Cuth is a wolf.


ISO's Riedquat, doesn't seem to care who leads out of Riedquat/Schema


Tone here's not bad. Only gives opinion on Schema after being chased up. Sticks with vote on Cuth. Like's Al Sips on tone.


Vote: Fenn just in case.

Yeah, but this almost feels lolwolfy if it's wolfy. I mean it all revolves around me. Why focus on me? I don't get that. I see all this and think, someone's just jumped into the game midway and is grabbing for impressions.

The people thus far who have given me hard town reads have been town. I'm going to stick with being okay with those people today, and hope that Fenn isn't a wolf that slips through the cracks.

Montmorency
12-30-2016, 20:23
Prior votes in parentheses.


<tbody>

Tally #D2 (Post #3260)



Blue
Green
Red


DISTRICT ONE
Rep
Chancellor
Lynch


Cass
Cass

(Al Sipsclar (invalid), Unvote), Fenn


Jabbz
Cass

Schema


Zack
(Zack), Cass

Winston Hughes


Al Sipsclar[TR]
Cass

Zack


Schema





DISTRICT TWO





BSmith
(BSmith), Visor

Al Sips


Winston Hughes


Montmorency


Visor
Visor

(Dice, Monty, Schema, Schema), Al Sips


Riedquat





DISTRICT THREE





Monstbro
atheotes

(Schema), Al Sips


Atheotes
atheotes

Schema


Dicetosser1





Fenn
atheotes




Montmorency
Atheotes

Winston Hughes

[TR]
</tbody>



District Prospects:

District 1: Cass Rep, ??? Lynch (Schema/Fenn/Zack/Winston candidates).
District 2: Visor Rep, Al Sips Lynch
District 3: Atheotes Rep, Schema Lynch

Cass_
12-30-2016, 20:23
Can you be more specific with the Visor thing?

This is of the top of my head, but Visor is bothering me aorn for

- OTT push on Cuth D1 - which essentially is what put Cuth on the table, and went well beyond any suspicion he threw at Monty over Monty's (wierd) sus at him;
- Vote progression (Cuth, Self, Dice);
- Backing off Cuth but not voting Barto when he'd said Barto was scummy/ok to lynch
- The push on Dice feeling opportunistic/ignorant of info provided/convenient wrt staying off lead Town/Scum wagons D2;
- Gut feeling on the way he's worded some things wrt me

Zack
12-30-2016, 20:24
Zack

Reasons for Schema over Fenn?

I don't think I put her over?

Schema
12-30-2016, 20:24
Can you be more specific with the Visor thing?

Yes, glancing back through he had a reaction something like, "Well the Cuth flip was town, good thing my vote didn't land there." Kind of chuckling off his read. It reminded me of a game I spec'd where he pushed a townie all day as scum and got them lynched, then turned around next day start and said, "Wow, I'm shocked! Did not expect that."

Just a case of deja vu.

Monstrdude
12-30-2016, 20:24
Fenn/al sips/schema has to contain at least one wolf or we have a big problem in our democratic structure

Cass_
12-30-2016, 20:25
Zack and Schema

If we don't consolidate our district doesn't get a vote and it goes to Sips/Schema

Agree on Fenn/Visor?

And gimme preferences for tie with Sips/Schema/Our District choice

Schema
12-30-2016, 20:25
Vote: Visor

Zack
12-30-2016, 20:27
Zack and Schema

If we don't consolidate our district doesn't get a vote and it goes to Sips/Schema

Agree on Fenn/Visor?

And gimme preferences for tie with Sips/Schema/Our District choice

Fenn over visor

schema over sips. I expect schema will disagree with this.

Schema
12-30-2016, 20:27
Zack and Schema

If we don't consolidate our district doesn't get a vote and it goes to Sips/Schema

Agree on Fenn/Visor?

And gimme preferences for tie with Sips/Schema/Our District choice

I don't know. I'd say Visor over Fenn but if Fenn is the best you can do after this game day then I'll trust your read, while also reading through your previous game day.

Zack
12-30-2016, 20:27
Yes, glancing back through he had a reaction something like, "Well the Cuth flip was town, good thing my vote didn't land there." Kind of chuckling off his read. It reminded me of a game I spec'd where he pushed a townie all day as scum and got them lynched, then turned around next day start and said, "Wow, I'm shocked! Did not expect that."

Just a case of deja vu.

Maybe I'm remembering wrong but I don't remember that comment being completely serious

Zack
12-30-2016, 20:29
In any case I appreciate you making an effort to hear out our opinions before representing our district Cass. :2thumbsup:

Montmorency
12-30-2016, 20:29
Fenn/Al Sips/Schema.

If Chancellor Fiat, shoot Visor.

Schema
12-30-2016, 20:29
Fenn over visor

schema over sips. I expect schema will disagree with this.


Yes.

Aiming sights at the Winston/Monty/Visor/Zack cluster d4 if I don't get lynched.

Zack
12-30-2016, 20:30
This is of the top of my head, but Visor is bothering me aorn for

- OTT push on Cuth D1 - which essentially is what put Cuth on the table, and went well beyond any suspicion he threw at Monty over Monty's (wierd) sus at him;
- Vote progression (Cuth, Self, Dice);
- Backing off Cuth but not voting Barto when he'd said Barto was scummy/ok to lynch
- The push on Dice feeling opportunistic/ignorant of info provided/convenient wrt staying off lead Town/Scum wagons D2;
- Gut feeling on the way he's worded some things wrt me
What does OTT mean?

I need to reread him wrt choxorn/barto at some point. I don't really recall him pushing them but he says he did.

don't want to lynch today, still thought his tone especially early was very good

Zack
12-30-2016, 20:31
oh lul me asking you a question at :30

Montmorency
12-30-2016, 20:31
PIZZAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

:31 good.
:32 bad.

Askthepizzaguy
12-30-2016, 21:38
*wakes up*

What? Oh yeah, deadline. ffs.



<tbody>

Tally #D1 (Post #3193)





Blue
Green
Red


DISTRICT ONE
Rep
Chancellor
Lynch


Cass
Cass

Fenn


Jabbz
Cass

Schema


Zack
Cass

Winston Hughes


Al Sipsclar
Cass

Zack


Schema


Visor


DISTRICT TWO





BSmith
Visor

Al Sips


Winston Hughes


Montmorency


Visor
Visor

Al


Riedquat





DISTRICT THREE





Monstbro
atheotes

Al Sips


Atheotes
atheotes

Schema


Dicetosser1





Fenn
atheotes




Montmorency
Atheotes

Winston Hughes

</tbody>



District Prospects:

District 1: Cass, who voted to lynch Fenn
District 2: Visor, who voted to lynch Al Sipsclar
District 3: Atheotes, who voted to lynch Schema

Is tie, shipped to Cass

Askthepizzaguy
12-30-2016, 21:39
It is night, any irregularities with that tally, PM me.

DO NOT POST.

Don't wait up for a tiebreak decision.

Askthepizzaguy
12-31-2016, 17:25
The wife and I are off to a New Year's Party. The start of night will be 4-5 hours late, whenever we get back, then night will last until the usual time the next day.

Most of you folks would be missing this phase due to New Year's anyway. glgl

Askthepizzaguy
01-01-2017, 02:55
Flavorless reveal:

Al Sipsclar was lynched. He was a vanilla townie.

Day will start at 8:30 PM my time today, the 1st January.

It is still Night, do not post.

Night actions!

Al Sipsclar
01-01-2017, 03:41
Long live our Glorious Leader Comrade Cass_! (shot)

Askthepizzaguy
01-01-2017, 04:19
Oh god, it's still moving! Ugh!

Even more flavorless reveal: He's deader this time.

Askthepizzaguy
01-01-2017, 20:18
January 2022

The terrorist groups weren't too happy about the continued state executions. This time, the detonated a bomb in Times Square, where Supreme Chancellor Cass was scheduled to make another speech about the imminent triumph of good over evil.

Three people died.

Jabbz died, he was vanilla town.
BSmith died, he was the Night Three vigilante.
Cass_ died, she was vanilla town.

The people mourned the loss of their friends. They needed to find whoever was responsible, and quickly. Time was running short.











Read this carefully

Due to a lack of Chancellor and the districts being wildly lopsided, today will be an unusual day.

You will be choosing a Chancellor today to decide the districts. That must happen first, before we do anything else. You will have 48 hours for that.

When there is a new Chancellor and they have submitted a new district drawing, you will have another day to finalize your lynch and representative votes.

You may vote for lynchee at any time, regardless of the other elections.

This will be the last day there are any districts. Tomorrow there will be no districts, and any living Chancellor will only decide tiebreaks.

Failure to place either a valid lynch vote today or Chancellor vote today means you will be modkilled, even if you post or vote for one of those things.



http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/blu_1483471800.png


IT IS DAY! YOU MAY POST!

Monstrdude
01-01-2017, 20:19
Peeked Zack scum

Monstrdude
01-01-2017, 20:24
Also fairly certain one of those was a wolf vig

Which sucks and means that wolves have been defending him

Prolly visor

Montmorency
01-01-2017, 20:32
Here are all tallies up to now, for reference.


DAY 1


<tbody>

Blue
Green
Red


DISTRICT ONE
Rep
Chancellor
Lynch


Schema





Cuthillius





Renata
Dp101
Cass
Jabbz


Choxorn

Zack



Dp101
Cuth
GH
Winston


Jabbz
Dp101
Cass
Zack


dicetosser1

Cass
GH


DISTRICT TWO





Winston Hughes
Winston
Visor
El barto


BSmith





Visor
Visor
Visor
Sooh


Csargo
Winston
Monty
Sooh


Riedquat
Visor
Visor
Visor


El Barto
El Barto
El Barto
Renata


Monstrbro
Visor
Visor
Monty


DISTRICT THREE





Montmorency
GH
Cass
Visor


Al Sipsclar





Sooh

Sooh
Zack


Cass_


El barto


GeneralHankerchief
GH
Zack
Sooh


Zack
Zack
Zack



atheotes
Zack
Cass
El barto

</tbody>



TALLY #2


<tbody>

Blue
Green
Red


DISTRICT ONE
Rep
Chancellor
Lynch


Schema





Cuthillius
Cuthilius
Zack
Visor


Renata
Dp101
Cass
Jabbz


Choxorn

Zack



Dp101
Cuth
GH
Winston


Jabbz
Dp101
Cass
Zack


dicetosser1

Cass
GH


DISTRICT TWO





Winston Hughes
Winston
Visor
El barto


BSmith





Visor
Visor
Visor
Sooh


Csargo
Winston
Monty
Sooh


Riedquat
Visor
Visor
Visor


El Barto
El Barto
El Barto
Renata


Monstrbro
Visor
Visor
Monty


DISTRICT THREE





Montmorency
GH
Cass
Visor


Al Sipsclar





Sooh

Sooh
Zack


Cass_


El barto


GeneralHankerchief
GH
Zack
Sooh


Zack
Zack
Zack
Jabbz


atheotes
Zack
Cass
El barto

</tbody>

Prospects for Rep elections:

District 3
Zack - Jabbz
GH - Sooh
District 2
Visor - Sooh
Winston - El Barto
District
Cuth - Visor
Dp101 - Winston



TALLY #3


<tbody>

Blue
Green
Red


DISTRICT ONE
Rep
Chancellor
Lynch


Schema

Cass



Cuthillius
Cuthilius
Zack
Visor


Renata
Dp101
Cass
Jabbz


Choxorn

Zack



Dp101
Cuth
GH
Sooh


Jabbz
Dp101
Cass
Zack


dicetosser1
Dicetosser1
Cass
Montmorency


DISTRICT TWO





Winston Hughes
Visor
Winston
El barto


BSmith





Visor
Visor
Visor
Sooh


Csargo
Winston
Monty
Sooh


Riedquat
Visor
Visor
Visor


El Barto
El Barto
El Barto
Winston Hughes


Monstrbro
Visor
Visor
Monty


DISTRICT THREE





Montmorency
GH
Cass
Visor


Al Sipsclar





Sooh

Sooh
Zack


Cass_


El barto


GeneralHankerchief
GH
Zack
Sooh


Zack
Zack
Zack
Jabbz


atheotes
Zack
Cass
El barto

</tbody>


Prospects for Rep elections:

District 3
Zack[2] - Jabbz
GH[2] - Sooh
District 2
Visor[4] - Sooh
District 1
Cuth[2] - Visor
Dp10[2] - Sooh



<tbody>
Tally # 4



Blue
Green
Red


DISTRICT ONE
Rep
Chancellor
Lynch


Schema

Cass



Cuthillius
Cuth
Zack
Visor


Renata
Dp101
Cass
Jabbz


Choxorn

Zack



Dp101
Cuth
GH
Sooh


Jabbz
Dp101
Cass
Zack


dicetosser1
Dice
Cass
Monty


DISTRICT TWO





Winston Hughes
Visor
Winston
El barto


BSmith





Visor
Visor
Visor
Sooh


Csargo
Winston
Monty
Sooh


Riedquat
Visor
Visor
Visor


El Barto
El Barto
El Barto
Winston


Monstrbro
Visor
Visor
Sooh


DISTRICT THREE





Montmorency
GH
Cass
Visor


Al Sipsclar





Sooh
Cass
Sooh
Zack


Cass_


Monty


GeneralHankerchief
GH
Zack
Sooh


Zack
Zack
Zack
Jabbz


atheotes
Cass
Winston
El barto

</tbody>



<tbody>
Tally # 5 (till post 930)



Blue
Green
Red


DISTRICT ONE
Rep
Chancellor
Lynch


Schema

Cass



Cuthillius
Cuth
Zack
Visor


Renata
Dp101
Cass
Choxorn


Choxorn
Cuth
Zack



Dp101
Cuth
GH
Sooh


Jabbz
Dp101
Cass
Zack


dicetosser1
Dice
Cass
Monty


DISTRICT TWO





Winston Hughes
Visor
Cass
El barto


BSmith
Winston
Visor
Al sips


Visor
Visor
Visor
Cuth


Csargo
Winston
Cass
Sooh


Riedquat
Visor
Visor
Visor


El Barto
El Barto
El Barto
Winston


Monstrbro
Visor
Visor
Sooh


DISTRICT THREE





Montmorency
GH
Cass
Visor


Al Sipsclar





Sooh
Cass
Sooh
Zack


Cass_





GeneralHankerchief
GH
Zack
Sooh


Zack
Zack
Zack
Jabbz


atheotes
Cass
Winston
Choxorn

</tbody>


Tally as of 1020
Not verified yet, PM me with corrections.
<1.5 hours remain.

Straw polling results:

Person voting - District / Chancellor / Lynch

Schema --- Cass ---
Cuthillius Cuth Zack Sooh
Renata dp101 Cass Choxorn
Choxorn Cuth Zack ---
Dp101 Cuth GH Sooh
Jabbz dp101 Cass Zack
Dicetosser1 Dice Cass Monty

Winston Visor Cass El Barto
Bsmith Winston Visor Al Sips
Visor Visor Visor Cuthillius
Csargo Winston Cass Sooh
Riedquat Visor Visor Visor
El Barto El Barto El Barto Winston
Monstrbro Monstrbro Visor Winston

Montmorency GH Cass Visor
Al Sipsclar --- --- ---
Sooh Cass Sooh Zack
Cass_ --- --- ---
Generalhank GH Zack Sooh
Zack Zack Zack Jabbz
Atheotes Cass Winston choxorn


Person- District/Chancellor/Lynch

Schema- Renata/ Cass/ GH
Cuthillius- Cuth/ Zack/ Visor
Renata- dp101/ Cass/ Choxorn
Choxorn- Cuth/ Zack/ ---
Dp101- dp101/ GH/ choxorn
Jabbz- dp101/ Cass/ Zack
Dicetosser1- Dice/ Cass/ Monty

Winston- Visor/ Cass/ El Barto
Bsmith- Visor/ Visor/ Al Sips
Visor- Visor/ Visor/ Cuthillius
Csargo- Winston/ Cass/ Sooh
Riedquat- Visor/ Visor/ Visor
El Barto- El Barto/ El Barto/ Winston
Monstrbro- Visor/ Monstr/ Winston

Montmorency- GH/ Cass/ Visor
Al Sipsclar- Zack/ Cass/ Bsmith
Sooh- Sooh/ Cass/ atheotes
Cass_- Cass/ Renata/ El Barto
Generalhank- GH/ Zack/ Sooh
Zack- Zack/ Zack/ Jabbz
Atheotes- Cass/ Winston/ choxorn

Current tally with roughly 21 minutes left to go. Any corrections?


Person District/Chancellor/Lynch

Schema Renata Cass GH
Cuthillius Cuth Zack Sooh
Renata dp101 Cass Choxorn
Choxorn Cuth Zack Al Sipsclar
Dp101 dp101 GH choxorn
Jabbz dp101 Cass Zack
Dicetosser1 Dice Cass Monty

Winston Visor Cass El Barto
Bsmith Visor Visor Al Sips
Visor Visor Visor Cuthillius
Csargo Winston Cass Sooh
Riedquat Visor Visor Visor
El Barto El Barto El Barto Winston
Monstrbro Monstr Monstr Winston

Montmorency GH Cass Visor
Al Sipsclar Zack Cass Bsmith
Sooh Cass Cass atheotes
Cass_ Cass Renata El Barto
Generalhank GH Zack Sooh
Zack Zack Zack Jabbz
Atheotes Cass Winston El barto


District Representative:
Dp101: Representative for District 1 (3/7 votes, winner)
Visor: Representative for District 2 (4/7 votes, winner)
Cass: Representative for District 3 (3/7 votes, winner)

Chancellor: Cass (9/21 votes, winner)
Zack: 4
Visor: 3

Lynch vote: Tie.
Dp votes for Choxorn
Visor votes for Cuthillius
Cass votes for El Barto
choxorn-Cuth-ElBarto tied.

Pop vote:
El Barto: 3
Sooh: 3
choxorn: 2
Al Sips: 2
Visor: 2
Winston: 2
Zack: 1
Monty: 1
GH: 1
Cuth: 1
Bsmith: 1
atheotes: 1
Jabbz: 1


DAY 2



<tbody>

Tally # B1



Blue
Green
Red


DISTRICT ONE
Rep
Chancellor
Lynch


Schema
Schema




Cuthillius
Dp101

General Hankerchief


Renata
Dp101

Zack



Dp101
Dp101

Cuthilius


Jabbz
Dp101




dicetosser1


El Barto


DISTRICT TWO





Winston Hughes
Winston

El Barto


BSmith
Winston Hughes

Cuthilius


Visor
Winston Hughes

Cuthilius


Csargo
Winston




Riedquat





El Barto
El Barto




Monstrbro
Monstrbro

General Hankerchief


DISTRICT THREE





Montmorency
Cass




Al Sipsclar
Cass






Cass_





GeneralHankerchief
Cass




Zack


Cuthilius


atheotes




</tbody>


A bit of movement. Differences from first tally formatted with underline and italics.


<tbody>

Tally # B2



Blue
Green
Red


DISTRICT ONE
Rep
Chancellor
Lynch


Schema
Dp101




Cuthillius
Dp101

General Hankerchief


Renata
Dp101

Montmorency


[TR]
Dp101
Dp101

Unvote Zack


Jabbz
Dp101




dicetosser1


El Barto


DISTRICT TWO





Winston Hughes
Winston Hughes

Unvote El Barto


BSmith
Winston Hughes

Cuthilius


Visor
Winston Hughes

Schema


Csargo
Winston Hughes




Riedquat
Winston Hughes




El Barto
Visor




Monstrbro
Monstrbro

General Hankerchief


DISTRICT THREE





Montmorency
Cass

Cuthilius


Al Sipsclar
Cass






Cass_





GeneralHankerchief
Cass

Cuthilius


Zack


Cuthilius


atheotes




</tbody>


Differences from [previous] tally formatted with underline and italics.


<tbody>

Tally # B3 (Post 2211)



Blue
Green
Red


DISTRICT ONE
Rep
Chancellor
Lynch


Schema
Dp101

Cuth


Cuthillius
Dp101

General Hankerchief


Renata
Dp101

Montmorency


[TR]
Dp101
Dp101

GH


Jabbz
Dp101

BSmith


dicetosser1


El Barto


DISTRICT TWO





Winston Hughes
Winston Hughes

Zack


BSmith
Winston Hughes

Cuthilius


Visor
Winston Hughes

Visor


Csargo
Winston Hughes




Riedquat
Winston Hughes

GH


El Barto
Visor




Monstrbro
Monstrbro

General Hankerchief


DISTRICT THREE





Montmorency
Cass

Cuthilius


Al Sipsclar
Cass

Monty




Cass_
Cass

El Barto


GeneralHankerchief
Cass

Cuthilius


Zack
Zack

Cuthilius


atheotes
Cass

GH

</tbody>


Tally looks like this, checking for discrepancies. PM me with any.

Person District/Chancellor/Lynch

Schema dp101 / Cuth
Cuth dp101 / GH
Renata dp101 / Monty
Dp101 dp101 / GH
Jabbz dp101 / Bsmith
Dice --- / Barto

Winston Winston / Zack
Bsmith Winston / Cuth
Visor Winston / Visor
Csargo Winston / ---
Riedquat Winston / GH
Barto Visor / ---
Monstr Monstr / GH

Monty Cass / Cuth
Al Sipsclar Cass / Monty
Cass_ Cass / Barto
GH Cass / Cuth
Zack Zack / Cuth
Atheotes Cass / GH

Dp would be re-elected district 1, is voting GH

Winston would be elected district 2, is voting Zack

Cass would be re-elected district 3, is voting Barto

Cass would decide tie-break.


DAY 3

Voting history in parentheses (not guaranteed to be complete).


<tbody>

Tally #C1 (Post #2722)



Blue
Green
Red


DISTRICT ONE
Rep
Chancellor
Lynch


Fenn
Schema

Cuth


Schema


Cuth


Riedquat
Riedquat

Cuth


Cuthilius
Schema

(GH, Fenn, Barto), Barto


DISTRICT TWO





Cass
Cass (invalid)




Renata
Renata




Monstrbro
(Monstr), Renata

(Barto, Monty), Fenn


El Barto
Cass

Monty


DISTRICT THREE





Montmorency
Visor

Cuth


Al Sipsclar





Visor
Visor

Cuth


DISTRICT FOUR





Winston Hughes





Jabbz
Jabz




Zack
Zack

Cuth


DISTRICT FIVE





atheotes





BSmith





dicetosser1
dicetosser

Montmorency


</tbody>


District Prospects:

1: Schema Rep, Cuth Lynch
2: Cass/Renata Rep, ? Lynch
3: Visor Rep, Cuth Lynch
4: ???
5: ???


Schema, Cuth, and Montmorency placed lynchvotes on Cuth on Page 76, before redistricting had been implemented. Voting in earnest began Page 80.


Voting history in parentheses (not guaranteed to be complete).


<tbody>[TR]

Tally #C2 (Post #2790)



Blue
Green
Red


DISTRICT ONE
Rep
Chancellor
Lynch


Fenn
Schema

Cuth


Schema


Cuth


Riedquat
Riedquat

Cuth


Cuthilius
Schema

(GH, Fenn, Barto), Barto


DISTRICT TWO





Cass
Cass (invalid)




Renata
Renata




Monstrbro
(Monstr), Renata

(Barto, Monty), Fenn


El Barto
Cass

Monty


DISTRICT THREE





Montmorency
Visor

Cuth


Al Sipsclar
Visor

Barto


Visor
Visor

Dice


DISTRICT FOUR





Winston Hughes
Jabbz

Zack


Jabbz
Jabz




Zack
Zack

Cuth


DISTRICT FIVE





atheotes
atheotes

Cuth


BSmith
atheotes

Cuth


dicetosser1
dicetosser

Montmorency

[TR]
</tbody>


District Prospects:

1: Schema Rep, Cuth Lynch
2: Cass/Renata Rep, ? Lynch
3: Visor Rep, ? Lynch
4: Jabbz Rep, Cuth/Zack Lynch
5: Atheotes Rep, Cuth Lynch

Cass, your Rep vote is invalid, again - you didn't bold.


AFAICT This currently puts us at a tie again.

El Barto is being voted in : 2, 4

and

Cuth is being voted in: 1, 5


Visor shifted his vote and put District 3 on Dice.



Taking a traditional tally/individual votes:

Cuth (7): Fenn, Schema, Riedquat, Montmorency, Zack, atheotes, BSmith

El Barto (5): Cuth, Cass, Renata, Al Sips, Jabbz

Monty (2): El Barto, Dicetosser

Fenn (1): Monstr

Dice (1): Visor

Zack (1): Winston Hughes,


District 1
Fenn Schema / Cuth
Schema --- / Cuth
Riedquat Riedquat / Cuth
Cuth Schema /Barto
District 2
Cass Renata / Barto
Renata Renata / Barto
Monstr Renata / Fenn
Barto Cass / Monty
District 3
Monty Visor / Cuth
Al Sips Visor / Barto
Visor Visor / Dice
District 4
Winston Jabbz / Zack
Jabbz Jabbz / Barto
Zack Zack / Cuth
District 5
Atheotes atheotes / Cuth
BSmith atheotes / Cuth
Dice Dice / Monty


If this tally isn't right, correct me via PM or before day ends in the thread.


Traditional tally/individual votes are now directly tied thanks to movement by Monstr and Dice.


Cuth (7): Fenn, Schema, Riedquat, Montmorency, Zack, atheotes, BSmith

El Barto (7): Cuth, Cass, Renata, Al Sips, Jabbz, Dicetosser, Monstr

Monty (1): El Barto

Dice (1): Visor

Zack (1): Winston Hughes


District 1
Fenn Schema / Cuth
Schema --- / Cuth
Riedquat Riedquat / Cuth
Cuth Schema /Barto
District 2
Cass Renata / Barto
Renata Renata / Barto
Monstr Renata / Barto
Barto Cass / Monty
District 3
Monty Visor / Cuth
Al Sips Visor / Barto
Visor Visor / Dice
District 4
Winston Jabbz / Zack
Jabbz Jabbz / Barto
Zack Zack / Cuth
District 5
Atheotes atheotes / Barto
BSmith atheotes / Cuth
Dice Dice / Barto

Tally irregularities? PM me.

It is night. Do not post.

Writeup incoming.


DAY 4

Prior votes in parentheses.
<tbody>[TR]

Tally #D1 (Post #3193)



Blue
Green
Red


DISTRICT ONE
Rep
Chancellor
Lynch


Cass


Al Sipsclar (invalid)


Jabbz
Cass

Schema


Zack
(Zack), Cass

Winston Hughes


Al Sipsclar
Cass

Zack

Schema





DISTRICT TWO





BSmith
BSmith

Al Sips


Winston Hughes


Montmorency


Visor
Visor

(Dice, Monty, Schema), Schema


Riedquat





DISTRICT THREE





Monstbro
atheotes

Schema


Atheotes





Dicetosser1





Fenn
atheotes




Montmorency
Atheotes

Winston Hughes


</tbody>



District Prospects:

District 1: Cass Rep, ??? Lynch (Cass invalid voting, 3 candidates).
District 2: ????????
District 3: Atheotes Rep, No Lynch (Atheotes not voting)

Error: Row with Schema in District 1 missing, but Schema has not voted (or posted) yet.


Prior votes in parentheses.


<tbody>

Tally #D2 (Post #3260)



Blue
Green
Red


DISTRICT ONE
Rep
Chancellor
Lynch

[TR]
Cass
Cass

(Al Sipsclar (invalid), Unvote), Fenn


Jabbz
Cass

Schema


Zack
(Zack), Cass

Winston Hughes


Al Sipsclar
Cass

Zack


Schema





DISTRICT TWO




[TR]
BSmith
(BSmith), Visor

Al Sips


Winston Hughes


Montmorency


Visor
Visor

(Dice, Monty, Schema, Schema), Al Sips


Riedquat





DISTRICT THREE





Monstbro
atheotes

(Schema), Al Sips


Atheotes
atheotes

Schema


Dicetosser1





Fenn
atheotes




Montmorency
Atheotes

Winston Hughes


</tbody>



District Prospects:

District 1: Cass Rep, ??? Lynch (Schema/Fenn/Zack/Winston candidates).
District 2: Visor Rep, Al Sips Lynch
District 3: Atheotes Rep, Schema Lynch



<tbody>

Tally #D1 (Post #3193)





Blue
Green
Red


DISTRICT ONE
Rep
Chancellor
Lynch

[TR]
Cass
Cass

Fenn


Jabbz
Cass

Schema


Zack
Cass

Winston Hughes


Al Sipsclar
Cass

Zack


Schema


Visor


DISTRICT TWO





BSmith
Visor

Al Sips


Winston Hughes


Montmorency


Visor
Visor

Al


Riedquat





DISTRICT THREE





Monstbro
atheotes

Al Sips


Atheotes
atheotes

Schema


Dicetosser1





Fenn
atheotes




Montmorency
Atheotes

Winston Hughes

</tbody>



District Prospects:

District 1: Cass, who voted to lynch Fenn
District 2: Visor, who voted to lynch Al Sipsclar
District 3: Atheotes, who voted to lynch Schema

Is tie, shipped to Cass

Montmorency
01-01-2017, 20:34
Monstr, are you serious about that?

What we may have is Mafia kill, Mafia vig, and BSmith vig. But, why the hell would BSmith kill Jabbz? So it might not be Bsmith - or it might be a busdriver.

At any rate, bad situation. We have 10 people, so assuming 3 scum left, we have today and 3 more tries.

Montmorency
01-01-2017, 20:38
I'm sorry, forget it - BSMith was a "Night 3" Vigilante. He could not have carried out the third kill. We need new ideas on what roles could do this - I think a double-vig scum would be too much.

Montmorency
01-01-2017, 20:47
Vote: atheotes

Monstr, please, are you seriously claiming a scum peek on Zack?

Schema
01-01-2017, 20:56
Also fairly certain one of those was a wolf vig

Which sucks and means that wolves have been defending him

Prolly visor

This was my ultimate paranoia team but it's been sitting in the back of my mind for a bit. I can't rule it out.

Thoughts on Monty/Atheotes as well?

Schema
01-01-2017, 20:56
Vote: atheotes

Monstr, please, are you seriously claiming a scum peek on Zack?

Reasons to doubt the peek?

Montmorency
01-01-2017, 20:59
Reasons to doubt the peek?

Well, of course I would have to rewrite Visor-Winston-Fenn in that case, but firstly because I want to make sure that Monstr is literally, unequivocally claiming a peek on Zack, and if so, what his previous night actions were.

Schema
01-01-2017, 21:04
Well, of course I would have to rewrite Visor-Winston-Fenn in that case, but firstly because I want to make sure that Monstr is literally, unequivocally claiming a peek on Zack, and if so, what his previous night actions were.

Why Atheotes for Chancellor?

We'll see what Monstr offers and doesn't offer. But I believe his claim.

Montmorency
01-01-2017, 21:08
He's consistently engaged for once and so far in this game he's the highest-ranking townie left standing.

Schema
01-01-2017, 21:52
He's consistently engaged for once and so far in this game he's the highest-ranking townie left standing.

Consistently engaged? He's got fewer posts than me, which is really saying something this game. Each is about two lines. I don't really know what to expect from him, but I don't see a lot in the way of strong town maneuvers this game.


I was just encouraging Renata to change her vote. I felt resolving Cuth could give us more information.
It did not happen. so i resolved El Barto.

Basically what atheotes did was promote an informational lynch. I'm not saying information itself is bad, and certainly Cuth's flip provided us with something, but that something is pretty much irrelevant to anything he actually did the next game day. He didn't use the supposed "information" he would find helpful.

Let's add the naked vote on me EOD right after I returned. Whatever.

Anyway, on ISO, atheotes' game this game is basically: I want this thing. Now that I've got it, I'm not going to do anything with it. Be it dice's reads list, Cuth's flip, etc. Only very reluctant to vote El B.

Show me a townie mindset in all that.

Zack
01-01-2017, 21:57
Reaction tests are so 2016.

Zack
01-01-2017, 22:01
Vote: atheotes

Monstr, please, are you seriously claiming a scum peek on Zack?

No, he's not.

Montmorency
01-01-2017, 22:08
Consistently engaged? He's got fewer posts than me, which is really saying something this game. Each is about two lines. I don't really know what to expect from him, but I don't see a lot in the way of strong town maneuvers this game.



Basically what atheotes did was promote an informational lynch. I'm not saying information itself is bad, and certainly Cuth's flip provided us with something, but that something is pretty much irrelevant to anything he actually did the next game day. He didn't use the supposed "information" he would find helpful.

Let's add the naked vote on me EOD right after I returned. Whatever.

Anyway, on ISO, atheotes' game this game is basically: I want this thing. Now that I've got it, I'm not going to do anything with it. Be it dice's reads list, Cuth's flip, etc. Only very reluctant to vote El B.

Show me a townie mindset in all that.

These are misleading descriptions, and the associated actions by atheotes are towny, to say nothing of the meta for his tone.

If there is one thing that hurts atheotes, it's that he hasn't been as active as he was D1.

*glances at Schema*

Zack
01-01-2017, 22:11
Vote: Schema

Montmorency
01-01-2017, 22:13
Zack, assuming Monstr was just reaction testing and there's no role or result behind his claim, then please work with me on Fenn-Winston-Visor.

Zack
01-01-2017, 22:17
Zack, assuming Monstr was just reaction testing and there's no role or result behind his claim, then please work with me on Fenn-Winston-Visor.
You're easily convinced it was fake.

Montmorency
01-01-2017, 22:20
You're easily convinced it was fake.

Why do you think I'm convinced?

Zack
01-01-2017, 22:21
Why would you ask me to work with you on nailing your scumteam if you thought I was a peeked wolf?

Montmorency
01-01-2017, 22:23
Why would you ask me to work with you on nailing your scumteam if you thought I was a peeked wolf?

I said, in case you aren't one. Also, why did you assume I was convinced that you were peeked in the first place? That would have been the very question raised in most of my posts from SoD...

Zack
01-01-2017, 22:26
Only so much can be done in an hour. Here's what I've got:

I've ISO'd Fenn and Fenn feels forced but too low-impact to be a good idea to lynch today.

Looking at Visor's reaction to Cuth being town after flip reminds me a little of a reaction he had in another scum game, and that is not sitting well with me. The fact that he claims to have had such success in his early reads (about 50/50 rn?) while still being alive bugs me a bit.

You've got a nice focus on me... and only me... is anyone else here EOD that is worth looking into? Where are the votes going and are there any you don't trust?

I don't know how to deal with my teammate Fenn. I think I will awkwardly shade him, claim he shouldn't be lynched for an irrelevant reason, then push a villager on something flimsy I sort of remember. Also remember to inform the organism engaging me in conversation to shift his attention elsewhere. Beep.

Zack
01-01-2017, 22:27
I said, in case you aren't one. Also, why did you assume I was convinced that you were peeked in the first place? That would have been the very question raised in most of my posts from SoD...
I didn't say that. I said easily convinced it was fake. You know, the opposite.

Schema
01-01-2017, 22:27
These are misleading descriptions, and the associated actions by atheotes are towny, to say nothing of the meta for his tone.

If there is one thing that hurts atheotes, it's that he hasn't been as active as he was D1.

*glances at Schema*

How are these actions townie?

As far as meta for his tone, I have no meta on players here with the exception of a bit on Visor, and that's not even a meta I feel comfortable utilizing from here forward. I need to interact with him directly a bit more.

I'm not forming a strong impression on atheotes so much as asking you to explain to me why YOU think atheotes is the strongest townie here. Convince me. Right now, with the players that are left, I don't much trust anyone except maybe Monstr. And I'm trying not to hold onto that one too tightly. (I don't know whether he was being serious about his peek on Zack and would like to see what he says whenever he shows up again. I'm ignoring Zack for now because what's the point, he's a man with a mission lol.)

Also, if you have difficulty with my drop off in posting, it was all centered around rl and I don't know what else to say.

Who are you looking at closest for lynch today?

Zack
01-01-2017, 22:29
I don't know. I'd say Visor over Fenn but if Fenn is the best you can do after this game day then I'll trust your read, while also reading through your previous game day.

:book2:

Schema
01-01-2017, 22:30
I don't know how to deal with my teammate Fenn. I think I will awkwardly shade him, claim he shouldn't be lynched for an irrelevant reason, then push a villager on something flimsy I sort of remember. Also remember to inform the organism engaging me in conversation to shift his attention elsewhere. Beep.

Fenn is tonally awkward, but as I said, coming in and hard reading me town as a wolf is utterly ridiculous. There was no reason to do that, to come in that strong and that hard, with a case for my towniness if we are wolf buddies. Completely foolish.

Fenn as a wolf teamed with someone else? Still can't see it. And apparently Cass couldn't either since she ended up lynching Al.

Schema
01-01-2017, 22:31
:book2:

Yes, I'm townreading Fenn. You do you what you need to.

Zack
01-01-2017, 22:31
And I'm trying not to hold onto that one too tightly. (I don't know whether he was being serious about his peek on Zack and would like to see what he says whenever he shows up again.
:dizzy2:


We'll see what Monstr offers and doesn't offer. But I believe his claim.

Zack
01-01-2017, 22:33
Fenn is tonally awkward, but as I said, coming in and hard reading me town as a wolf is utterly ridiculous. There was no reason to do that, to come in that strong and that hard, with a case for my towniness if we are wolf buddies. Completely foolish.

Fenn as a wolf teamed with someone else? Still can't see it. And apparently Cass couldn't either since she ended up lynching Al.

That's not what you said at EOD. You said he was "forced" but didn't want to lynch him because he was "so low-impact" (?). Then you told Cass you'd be okay if she lynched him. Now he's a strong townread, because he townread you? Ok.

What's even the point of the Cass comment? Al was a villager.

Zack
01-01-2017, 22:36
I think Schema's EOD yesterday was pushing an agenda of protecting her team and really underwhelming from a solving standpoint.

Schema
01-01-2017, 22:39
That's not what you said at EOD. You said he was "forced" but didn't want to lynch him because he was "so low-impact" (?). Then you told Cass you'd be okay if she lynched him. Now he's a strong townread, because he townread you? Ok.

What's even the point of the Cass comment? Al was a villager.

I think everyone up for lynch yesterday was a villager.

And I also said this:


Yeah, but this almost feels lolwolfy if it's wolfy. I mean it all revolves around me. Why focus on me? I don't get that. I see all this and think, someone's just jumped into the game midway and is grabbing for impressions.

The people thus far who have given me hard town reads have been town. I'm going to stick with being okay with those people today, and hope that Fenn isn't a wolf that slips through the cracks.

I can have more than one thought on a player. Fenn felt tonally off, and low-impact on the game meant because Fenn had only posted so much.

Your tunnels have all led nowhere, Zack, and what's more, you're grabbing at certain posts and not taking into account others just a few before. Tell me who else is up for evaluation today besides me and Fenn.

Zack
01-01-2017, 22:43
Define everyone up for lynch.

You strongly townread me until I voiced suspicion of you. You're going to have to do better than that. To me it looks like you changed that read because it became inconvenient.

As for the implication that I'm cherry-picking quotes out of context, I highly encourage everyone to read the context thoroughly. It doesn't make it look any better.

Schema
01-01-2017, 22:47
Yeah Fenn is fine to die

Can you break down your EOD regarding Fenn for me? You had Fenn as 85% villager and then came back and said Fenn was fine to die. Why the change?

Montmorency
01-01-2017, 22:51
How are these actions townie?

As far as meta for his tone, I have no meta on players here with the exception of a bit on Visor, and that's not even a meta I feel comfortable utilizing from here forward. I need to interact with him directly a bit more.

I'm not forming a strong impression on atheotes so much as asking you to explain to me why YOU think atheotes is the strongest townie here. Convince me. Right now, with the players that are left, I don't much trust anyone except maybe Monstr. And I'm trying not to hold onto that one too tightly. (I don't know whether he was being serious about his peek on Zack and would like to see what he says whenever he shows up again. I'm ignoring Zack for now because what's the point, he's a man with a mission lol.)

Also, if you have difficulty with my drop off in posting, it was all centered around rl and I don't know what else to say.

Who are you looking at closest for lynch today?

1. Early adopter of Choxorn lynch - and pushed it even when he had no impact on the outcome (and wasn't even in Renata's district).
2. Always one of the top voices calling for Barto's lynch.
3. Took personal responsibility for Barto lynch, when Cass might just have chosen otherwise.


Zack, Schema concluded at the end of her Fenn content that based on his townread of her she will trust him, so she had that on writing. Even if it's not great.

Schema
01-01-2017, 22:53
Define everyone up for lynch.

Fenn, me, Al. I suspect we were all town. And I think coming in with heightened suspicion on me and Fenn is convenient considering we were the possible other lynches available and people may be inclined to come in thinking it was villager-wolf lynch instead of all villager.


You strongly townread me until I voiced suspicion of you. You're going to have to do better than that. To me it looks like you changed that read because it became inconvenient.

As for the implication that I'm cherry-picking quotes out of context, I highly encourage everyone to read the context thoroughly. It doesn't make it look any better.

It is inconvenient, as you're trying to lynch a townie. But I digress.

Zack
01-01-2017, 22:53
1. Early adopter of Choxorn lynch - and pushed it even when he had no impact on the outcome (and wasn't even in Renata's district).
2. Always one of the top voices calling for Barto's lynch.
3. Took personal responsibility for Barto lynch, when Cass might just have chosen otherwise.


Zack, Schema concluded at the end of her Fenn content that based on his townread of her she will trust him, so she had that on writing. Even if it's not great.

Three minutes to deadline, she told Cass she was fine with her lynching Fenn.

Zack
01-01-2017, 22:55
Fenn, me, Al. I suspect we were all town. And I think coming in with heightened suspicion on me and Fenn is convenient considering we were the possible other lynches available and people may be inclined to come in thinking it was villager-wolf lynch instead of all villager.



It is inconvenient, as you're trying to lynch a townie. But I digress.
I said at EOD that my preference was Schema/Fenn > Al Sips. I didn't agree with Cass's choice to condemn Al, and he flipped villager. What the hell else would you expect me to think coming in today?

Montmorency
01-01-2017, 23:01
Three minutes to deadline, she told Cass she was fine with her lynching Fenn.

She said she trusted Cass if she chose Fenn, in a manner reminiscent of Monstr giving his opinion on Bart-Cuth at EoD2.

Right now, who would easily vote Schema?

Riedquat, Zack, atheotes, Visor, Winston (?).

Who would vote with me on Winston or Visor?

Schema, dice...


It's hard to believe Schema is scum with that kind of spread. Fenn may be the only shot open today.

Schema
01-01-2017, 23:01
1. Early adopter of Choxorn lynch - and pushed it even when he had no impact on the outcome (and wasn't even in Renata's district).
2. Always one of the top voices calling for Barto's lynch.
3. Took personal responsibility for Barto lynch, when Cass might just have chosen otherwise.


Thanks. I missed El Barto lynch obv. Let's keep atheotes around, then. Not sure he'll get a chancellor vote from me right this second but I won't throw the idea out.

Zack
01-01-2017, 23:05
She said she trusted Cass if she chose Fenn, in a manner reminiscent of Monstr giving his opinion on Bart-Cuth at EoD2.

Right now, who would easily vote Schema?

Riedquat, Zack, atheotes, Visor, Winston (?).

Who would vote with me on Winston or Visor?

Schema, dice...


It's hard to believe Schema is scum with that kind of spread. Fenn may be the only shot open today.
Huh? It's not like any of the nightkills were pushing Winston or Visor over Schema.

Zack
01-01-2017, 23:06
The opposite if anything.

Schema
01-01-2017, 23:13
I said at EOD that my preference was Schema/Fenn > Al Sips. I didn't agree with Cass's choice to condemn Al, and he flipped villager. What the hell else would you expect me to think coming in today?

I think you are misrepresenting your EOD as protective/townreading of Al when really it was just picking one player over another. You didn't voice any disapproval of the Al Sipslar votes toward those actually voting him, like Monstr and Visor. So why am I now where you direct your attention? Why not look at those who actually cast the vote on Al in the first place?

Schema
01-01-2017, 23:16
She said she trusted Cass if she chose Fenn, in a manner reminiscent of Monstr giving his opinion on Bart-Cuth at EoD2.

Right now, who would easily vote Schema?

Riedquat, Zack, atheotes, Visor, Winston (?).

Who would vote with me on Winston or Visor?

Schema, dice...


It's hard to believe Schema is scum with that kind of spread. Fenn may be the only shot open today.

I just saw Fenn came in after I did end of last game day and made a comment about my late arrival. I mean, is it that easy? Can it be? Bleh.

I need a break and some food, see y'all later. Want to see what other players have to say between now and then anyway.

dicetosser1
01-01-2017, 23:16
She said she trusted Cass if she chose Fenn, in a manner reminiscent of Monstr giving his opinion on Bart-Cuth at EoD2.

Right now, who would easily vote Schema?

Riedquat, Zack, atheotes, Visor, Winston (?).

Who would vote with me on Winston or Visor?

Schema, dice...


It's hard to believe Schema is scum with that kind of spread. Fenn may be the only shot open today.


im reading schema town as there are a few times since day break that I have myndmelded with what shes saying.

my lynch pool is visor monty zack.

Monstrbro do you have any other peeks so we can narrow the pool??


vote zack

Schema
01-01-2017, 23:21
im reading schema town as there are a few times since day break that I have myndmelded with what shes saying.

my lynch pool is visor monty zack.

Monstrbro do you have any other peeks so we can narrow the pool??


vote zack

Why Monty? Monty is the one who made the above post breaking down the spread. He's looking at the logic of the votes and notes it could be clearing for me. Do you think a scum Monty would point that out?

Zack
01-01-2017, 23:22
I think you are misrepresenting your EOD as protective/townreading of Al when really it was just picking one player over another. You didn't voice any disapproval of the Al Sipslar votes toward those actually voting him, like Monstr and Visor. So why am I now where you direct your attention? Why not look at those who actually cast the vote on Al in the first place?
That is not what I am saying or presenting. I never said I was townreading him, I am saying that of the three people up for lynch, I had a clear preference for the two who did not get lynched and the third guy flipped villager. So it's silly of you to accuse me of swooping in to score an easy lynch, when in fact it's a perfectly logical progression. Why would I suddenly reverse my reads there?

Montmorency
01-01-2017, 23:23
Huh? It's not like any of the nightkills were pushing Winston or Visor over Schema.

What does that have to do with it? Unless you're trying to rule out Visor and Winston as suspects?

For the record:

Jabbz had Schema as scum, Fenn as questionable, VIsor and Winston as null.
BSmith was null on Fenn and Schema. In late D3, he said his reads list was the same as what he posted the other day, but somehow I haven't been able to find a reads list corresponding to that statement.
Cass was becoming suspicious of Visor and Winston, more so the former. Shaded Schema a bit for dropping off, but not to the extent with which she was voicing active discomfort with Visor and Winston. Indeed, Cass even voiced the possibility of Winston-Visor-Monty. Schema was not as low as this in the bottom tier, above even Fenn (in Cass' opinion). Ultimately, Cass' opinion on Schema seemed about as high as her opinion of you, by EoD4.


dicetosser, what do you think of Fenn?

Montmorency
01-01-2017, 23:25
Why Monty? Monty is the one who made the above post breaking down the spread. He's looking at the logic of the votes and notes it could be clearing for me. Do you think a scum Monty would point that out?

He thinks I've scum because I've championed common-sense statements he somehow vehemently disagrees with. :shrug:

Zack
01-01-2017, 23:30
What does that have to do with it? Unless you're trying to rule out Visor and Winston as suspects?

For the record:

Jabbz had Schema as scum, Fenn as questionable, VIsor and Winston as null.
BSmith was null on Fenn and Schema. In late D3, he said his reads list was the same as what he posted the other day, but somehow I haven't been able to find a reads list corresponding to that statement.
Cass was becoming suspicious of Visor and Winston, more so the former. Shaded Schema a bit for dropping off, but not to the extent with which she was voicing active discomfort with Visor and Winston. Indeed, Cass even voiced the possibility of Winston-Visor-Monty. Schema was not as low as this in the bottom tier, above even Fenn (in Cass' opinion). Ultimately, Cass' opinion on Schema seemed about as high as her opinion of you, by EoD4.


dicetosser, what do you think of Fenn?

that's not what cass' reads list said

and if you're not basing it off of nightkills... then why would it matter how many people want to vote them? And in any case, only two people voted her and one died. How are you using that argument to defend Schema while accusing Fenn anyways?

It's such a weird way of going about it.

Schema
01-01-2017, 23:32
I think you are misrepresenting your EOD as protective/townreading of Al when really it was just picking one player over another. You didn't voice any disapproval of the Al Sipslar votes toward those actually voting him, like Monstr and Visor. So why am I now where you direct your attention? Why not look at those who actually cast the vote on Al in the first place?


That is not what I am saying or presenting. I never said I was townreading him, I am saying that of the three people up for lynch, I had a clear preference for the two who did not get lynched and the third guy flipped villager. So it's silly of you to accuse me of swooping in to score an easy lynch, when in fact it's a perfectly logical progression. Why would I suddenly reverse my reads there?

Yeah, and the underlined is not at all what I was saying. What I'm saying is that any thoughts you may or may not have had regarding Cass' choice about who she lynched are irrelevant because they are outside the readable content of the game. Al flipped town; who pushed his lynch? Sure wasn't me. In fact I voted Visor after he put a naked vote on Al, and I questioned Monstr about his vote. I could have come in advocating for a lynch on Fenn or Al if I was a wolf and I didn't do that.

Shouldn't I have been pushing the Al case forward?

Zack
01-01-2017, 23:35
So now Al's flip clears you?

Montmorency
01-01-2017, 23:40
that's not what cass' reads list said

and if you're not basing it off of nightkills... then why would it matter how many people want to vote them? And in any case, only two people voted her and one died. How are you using that argument to defend Schema while accusing Fenn anyways?

It's such a weird way of going about it.

I think you're doing this upside down. Unless you argue that nightkills determine suspects, you must use nightkills in the context of your existing suspicions. What I pointed out was that the nightkills do not - unless you have a new argument to present - say much in either way for Schema or for Visor/Winston. Cass and BSmith were obvious targets anyway, overdue in Cass' case. The only real mystery is Jabbz, and whether it could really have been a second Mafia vig or similar.

Now, as for the list I presented first in this chain, the one describing support for Schema lynch vs. support for Winston/Visor lynch, the list shows that support for Schema lynch is comparatively higher - this weakens the intrinsic case for her being scum, and weakens the case for her having to come in to save anyone at EOD. If she is scum, then she came in to spin for herself, not for any threatened partner.

And that is what Cass' read lists said. I have them noted down. Read them verbatim if you like.

Montmorency
01-01-2017, 23:41
Yeah, and the underlined is not at all what I was saying. What I'm saying is that any thoughts you may or may not have had regarding Cass' choice about who she lynched are irrelevant because they are outside the readable content of the game. Al flipped town; who pushed his lynch? Sure wasn't me. In fact I voted Visor after he put a naked vote on Al, and I questioned Monstr about his vote. I could have come in advocating for a lynch on Fenn or Al if I was a wolf and I didn't do that.

Shouldn't I have been pushing the Al case forward?

If Zack believes you are scum for interference, then he might as well say that presenting a target other than Al would be exactly what you should have done.

Schema
01-01-2017, 23:50
If Zack believes you are scum for interference, then he might as well say that presenting a target other than Al would be exactly what you should have done.

He could believe that, based on his reactions at my appearance. He didn't like my appearance at EOD and whatever he wants to make of that is up to him. That said, I showed up too late for any alternate target to gain much traction.

The reason I didn't pick one of the counter-candidates is because I did believe they were town. Why would I vote them, in that case?

I did the best I could with the little I had to go off of. Can't really say much more to it. Better to show up and take a shot at it imo.

Visor
01-02-2017, 01:05
Schemas shade of me at eod is priceless

'like my scum game'

That.you can neither name.or seriously point to as an actual reason for why I am mafia

Then again I also hated zacks post to schema defending me so ymmv

Visor
01-02-2017, 01:06
I couldn't care less that Al flipped town

Literally nothing to read him villagery off besides him posting a read list with near zero reasons once per phase

Visor
01-02-2017, 01:18
Yes, glancing back through he had a reaction something like, "Well the Cuth flip was town, good thing my vote didn't land there." Kind of chuckling off his read. It reminded me of a game I spec'd where he pushed a townie all day as scum and got them lynched, then turned around next day start and said, "Wow, I'm shocked! Did not expect that."

Just a case of deja vu.


Only so much can be done in an hour. Here's what I've got:

I've ISO'd Fenn and Fenn feels forced but too low-impact to be a good idea to lynch today.

Looking at Visor's reaction to Cuth being town after flip reminds me a little of a reaction he had in another scum game, and that is not sitting well with me. The fact that he claims to have had such success in his early reads (about 50/50 rn?) while still being alive bugs me a bit.

You've got a nice focus on me... and only me... is anyone else here EOD that is worth looking into? Where are the votes going and are there any you don't trust?

Name the game and explain it.

Because my reaction had nothing to do with apologising for Cuth flipping villager. (I thought he played poorly, mostly and his continual refusal to engage me for simple questions was lolworthy).

The only thing I mentioned is that I had a small sense of pride that I didn't vote him to be lynched because I had a small sliver of doubt, but I was mostly mad that I DIDN'T vote El Barto, who I did have as scum and my playstyle that lends itself to those actions.

I'm not apologising or whatever for reading Cuth wrongly, I am apologising for a prolonged flaw in my village gameplay.

dicetosser1
01-02-2017, 01:22
Why Monty? Monty is the one who made the above post breaking down the spread. He's looking at the logic of the votes and notes it could be clearing for me. Do you think a scum Monty would point that out?

I think hes playing puppetmaster. ive said hes scum all game and at this point im sticking to my reads




What does that have to do with it? Unless you're trying to rule out Visor and Winston as suspects?

For the record:

Jabbz had Schema as scum, Fenn as questionable, VIsor and Winston as null.
BSmith was null on Fenn and Schema. In late D3, he said his reads list was the same as what he posted the other day, but somehow I haven't been able to find a reads list corresponding to that statement.
Cass was becoming suspicious of Visor and Winston, more so the former. Shaded Schema a bit for dropping off, but not to the extent with which she was voicing active discomfort with Visor and Winston. Indeed, Cass even voiced the possibility of Winston-Visor-Monty. Schema was not as low as this in the bottom tier, above even Fenn (in Cass' opinion). Ultimately, Cass' opinion on Schema seemed about as high as her opinion of you, by EoD4.


dicetosser, what do you think of Fenn?


fenns pretty null to me just cause of low posting and I don't remember anything fenn has said.

Montmorency
01-02-2017, 01:31
I think hes playing puppetmaster. ive said hes scum all game and at this point im sticking to my reads.

:on_huh:

So, uh, how has that gone for me?

Choxorn
01-02-2017, 02:06
(Posted with Pizza's permission, so don't get alarmed by a dead guy posting)

I'm hosting a minigame to try to revive CFC's Mafia Section. Sign up here (https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/mini-mafia-the-night-santa-went-crazy.607817/) if you're interested, especially if you're dead like me.

dicetosser1
01-02-2017, 02:45
:on_huh:

So, uh, how has that gone for me?


seems to be working pretty well u are still alive and haven't been under any real danger of being lynched

Montmorency
01-02-2017, 03:00
seems to be working pretty well u are still alive and haven't been under any real danger of being lynched

Does that have to do with me, or does it have to do with the other lynch candidates, or does it have to do with the people arguing for and managing the lynches? Of the three components, my own 'strategy' seems to have the least impact on who gets lynched. I have never made leading arguments towards any of the major cases of the past 4 days. The only lynch you can credit as even in accord with my current wishes might be the GH lynch. Otherwise, from my in-thread position every lynch has been suboptimal. And Cass, as we know, and as I pointed out common sense dictated, is town - so she wasn't in cahoots with me or any similar conspiracy. Indeed, my structural recommendations to Cass aside from the lynch were either ignored or specifically contradicted in her decisions almost all of the time.

So - who exactly have I been puppeting, or what? Who is operating under my influence? What terms have I set that we are now operating under? What have I done to accomplish which specific goals? Am I secretly a Serial Killer against everyone?

You seem to have a really bad habit of deciding someone is scum just because you don't understand their positions. After all, something about Visor-Zack-Monty should at least strike you as strange, but after all, these are the people who have most criticized your reactions in the thread, so of course that alone must condemn them.

You need to reinvent your analysis.

atheotes
01-02-2017, 05:54
10 alive..possibly 3 more scum.
BSmith was Night 3 vig - was he killed because he was clear or did they think he has more shots? I am leaning on the former. Generally people seemed to be accepting the claim and out of the 2 additional kills today, 1 might be scum 1-shot and it is easy for them to have figured BSmith was a similar 1-shot.
Jabbz was probably shot by night 4 vig. So that is one more townie we can clear.

atheotes
01-02-2017, 05:59
Looks like i will have to go back and read the whole thread. Something i have never done before.
Can i do it? hmm..looks daunting.

Visor
01-02-2017, 05:59
Live players and reveals

Monstrbro
Montmorency
Zack
dicetosser1
atheotes
Winston Hughes
Schema
Visor
Fenn
Riedquat


Dead:
Choxorn- Mafia Goon, died D1
Sooh- Town watcher, died N1
Generalhankerchief- Vanilla town, died D2
dp101- Vanilla town, died N2
El Barto- Mafia Goon, died D3
Renata- Vanilla town, died N3
Cuthillius- Vanilla town, died N3
Al Sipsclar- Vanilla town, died D4
Cass_- Vanilla town, died N4
BSmith- N3 town vigilante, died N4
Jabbz- Vanilla town, died N4

DISTRICT ONE

Schema
Cuthillius
Renata
Choxorn
Dp101
Jabbz
dicetosser1

DISTRICT TWO

Winston Hughes
BSmith
Visor
Fenn
Riedquat
El Barto
Monstrbro

DISTRICT THREE

Montmorency
Al Sipsclar
Sooh
Cass_
GeneralHankerchief
Zack
atheotes

just for interests sake

I might go read over D1 and look at the progression of votes later and see how they went (from the unclears)

Visor
01-02-2017, 06:00
Vote: Visor

Montmorency
01-02-2017, 06:09
Visor, pick someone else for Chancellor.


Looks like i will have to go back and read the whole thread. Something i have never done before.
Can i do it? hmm..looks daunting.

Two 1-shot town vigs? I don't think that's plausible. And who could or would kill Jabbz? I can't really think of anyone?

Who would not be the killer, if town vig?

Monty
Atheotes (unless you're claiming?)
Zack - hasn't claimed, thought jabbz town or at least above null
Fenn - liked Jabbz
Dice - no claim, why not kill me?
Schema - no claim, I think liked jabbz - why not kill Visor?
Riedquat - liked jabbz, why not kill schema
Monstr - liked jabbz; if he's a role at all, he isn't claiming a killing role ATM
Visor - I think he liked jabbz, why not kill schema or dice?
Winston - I think liked jabbz, why not kill me or Zack?

Second big, let alone second vig killing jabbz, doesn't add up. We need another hypothesis.

Visor
01-02-2017, 06:09
Monty if you're a villager shut the hell up about me being a wolf and actually start doing something USEFUL

Visor
01-02-2017, 06:10
Visor, pick someone else for Chancellor.



Two 1-shot town vigs? I don't think that's plausible. And who could or would kill Jabbz? I can't really think of anyone?

Who would not be the killer, if town vig?

Monty
Atheotes (unless you're claiming?)
Zack - hasn't claimed, thought jabbz town or at least above null
Fenn - liked Jabbz
Dice - no claim, why not kill me?
Schema - no claim, I think liked jabbz - why not kill Visor?
Riedquat - liked jabbz, why not kill schema
Monstr - liked jabbz; if he's a role at all, he isn't claiming a killing role ATM
Visor - I think he liked jabbz, why not kill schema or dice?
Winston - I think liked jabbz, why not kill me or Zack?

Second big, let alone second vig killing jabbz, doesn't add up. We need another hypothesis.

i shoot schema everytime

and no, I refuse. i am not letting someone else get that position at this stage of the game.

Montmorency
01-02-2017, 06:12
i shoot schema everytime

and no, I refuse. i am not letting someone else get that position at this stage of the game.

You won't get it anyway. Pick an alternate.

Visor
01-02-2017, 06:14
You won't get it anyway. Pick an alternate.

Initial thought is Winston, but let me think on that further too.

Still, don't care. Campaigning for me.

Montmorency
01-02-2017, 06:16
Initial thought is Winston, but let me think on that further too.

Still, don't care. Campaigning for me.

WHY? Your picks for chancellor are ridiculous, your WTL is wrong, and you' already been Rep twice to no good effect.

You're not fit.

Visor
01-02-2017, 06:18
WHY? Your picks for chancellor are ridiculous, your WTL is wrong, and you' already been Rep twice to no good effect.

You're not fit.

NO THEY ARE NOT I AM A VILLAGER WHO HS PUSHED WOLVES

CASS LYNCHED TWO VILLAGERS (SHE GETS TEH FINAL SAY)

either start playing properly or bugger off your stupid tunnel of me this entire game has been utter horseshit

Montmorency
01-02-2017, 06:18
Scratch that, three times.

Visor
01-02-2017, 06:20
Besides, both Cuth and Al Sips were playing poorly, to the point where a NUMBER of TOP TIER villagers pointed out the same thing

so :daisy: off

you're either a tunneling, annoying villager or you're a wolf and I don't care which, just get off my back for once in this frigging game.

Montmorency
01-02-2017, 06:20
NO THEY ARE NOT I AM A VILLAGER WHO HS PUSHED WOLVES

CASS LYNCHED TWO VILLAGERS (SHE GETS TEH FINAL SAY)

either start playing properly or bugger off your stupid tunnel of me this entire game has been utter horseshit

You've pushed wolves less than dice? You are like in the bottom third this game for pushing wolves. This isn't a defense for you. You don't even have the panache of Zack to pull it off.

Visor
01-02-2017, 06:21
You've pushed wolves less than dice? You are like in the bottom third this game for pushing wolves. This isn't a defense for you. You don't even have the panache of Zack to pull it off.

I HAVE PUSHED THE ONLY TWO WOLVES TO HAVE FLIPPED

ARE YOU BLIND

Montmorency
01-02-2017, 06:22
Besides, both Cuth and Al Sips were playing poorly, to the point where a NUMBER of TOP TIER villagers pointed out the same thing

so :daisy: off

you're either a tunneling, annoying villager or you're a wolf and I don't care which, just get off my back for once in this frigging game.

I gave you two days, and you just doubled down with the worst stuff for them.

If you aren't scum at least think of better officers and scum teams.

Montmorency
01-02-2017, 06:23
I HAVE PUSHED THE ONLY TWO WOLVES TO HAVE FLIPPED

ARE YOU BLIND
Enough. You didn't push Choxorn. This is pointless. Pick a more fruitful subject.

Visor
01-02-2017, 06:23
Monty, lets say I am a villager.

Who are the wolves?

Visor
01-02-2017, 06:24
Enough. You didn't push Choxorn. This is pointless. Pick a more fruitful subject.

I did. :daisy: off you :daisy:ing lying, blind something or other.

you are useless.

Visor
01-02-2017, 06:25
Don't talk to me about not pushign wolves when you defended them.

:daisy: off

Montmorency
01-02-2017, 06:26
I did. :daisy: off you :daisy:ing lying, blind something or other.

you are useless.

Other people have also pointed it out.

If you are town, then more likely Schema.

atheotes
01-02-2017, 06:40
Monty, i dont see why scum would shoot Jabbz.

Visor, i will vote you for being chancellor if you make a reads list WITH PROPER REASONS and I can agree with most of it.:deal:

Montmorency
01-02-2017, 06:42
I ask you this Visor, something I wish another would have broached: what will you do if Monstr returns swearing that he spoke true about Zack?

Visor
01-02-2017, 06:42
Monty, i dont see why scum would shoot Jabbz.

Visor, i will vote you for being chancellor if you make a reads list WITH PROPER REASONS and I can agree with most of it.:deal:

Tonight then.
Monstrbro Montmorency Zack dicetosser1 atheotes Winston Hughes Schema Fenn Riedquat

This is your ONLY chance to claim any of the shots made last night. Claiming them any later than today should be treated as a scum claim.

Montmorency
01-02-2017, 06:43
Monty, i dont see why scum would shoot Jabbz.

Visor, i will vote you for being chancellor if you make a reads list WITH PROPER REASONS and I can agree with most of it.:deal:

I agree, but a town hit makes even less sense. We may need to think of different roles here.

Visor
01-02-2017, 06:43
I ask you this Visor, something I wish another would have broached: what will you do if Monstr returns swearing that he spoke true about Zack?

That he peeked Zack scum?

Get him to spill the details of his role.

After that, read through both their ISOs and who they pushed/defended and all that.

Decide who I like better and why.

Visor
01-02-2017, 06:45
I agree, but a town hit makes even less sense. We may need to think of different roles here.

Its either mafia or town. So if nobody claims it today, its mafia.

Mafia having TWO vigs is fing stupid so I don't think its them unless they have max 2 more teammates alive.

But likely one of them is town, in which case they need to claim ASAP.

Montmorency
01-02-2017, 06:53
Its either mafia or town. So if nobody claims it today, its mafia.

Mafia having TWO vigs is fing stupid so I don't think its them unless they have max 2 more teammates alive.

But likely one of them is town, in which case they need to claim ASAP.

When you say mafia or town, I assume you put any third party under "mafia". But then we need to stop thinking in terms of strategy or suspicion - there are many factors that could contribute to a 3p affecting someone utr and almost consensus town.

Visor
01-02-2017, 07:06
When you say mafia or town, I assume you put any third party under "mafia". But then we need to stop thinking in terms of strategy or suspicion - there are many factors that could contribute to a 3p affecting someone utr and almost consensus town.

The OP says Mafia and town are the only two factions.

Zack
01-02-2017, 07:18
Hardclaim 3rd-party, I shot two people last night and redirected the mafia kill.

Zack
01-02-2017, 07:20
on a more serious note, is visor veering into performance art territory?

Zack
01-02-2017, 07:35
idk, maybe not giving fenn enough credit. Since Cereal Killers is over now, I can talk about how I subbed in and was coasting in that game (as a wolf) and noticed Fenn doing similar here. He seemed to just come in and kinda sheep the consensus. need to re-read him.

still think schema looks bad

atheotes
01-02-2017, 08:21
When you say mafia or town, I assume you put any third party under "mafia". But then we need to stop thinking in terms of strategy or suspicion - there are many factors that could contribute to a 3p affecting someone utr and almost consensus town.

3P? no way. it is tough as it is with the voting mechanics. so no more discussion on 3P please.

Monstrdude
01-02-2017, 10:21
N1 atheotes v
N2 Barto w
N3 cuth
N4 Zack w

I breadcrumbed my Barto peek several times. I would hve preferred to lynch a different wolf but he was much better than the alternative from my perspective, and given what the team compositions can be I think we'd have gotten it wrong anyway

Monstrdude
01-02-2017, 10:23
Vote: Monstrbro
Vote: Zack

Visor
01-02-2017, 11:00
N1 atheotes v
N2 Barto w
N3 cuth
N4 Zack w

I breadcrumbed my Barto peek several times. I would hve preferred to lynch a different wolf but he was much better than the alternative from my perspective, and given what the team compositions can be I think we'd have gotten it wrong anyway

No n0?

Monstrdude
01-02-2017, 11:05
No n0?

Nadal, wey

Visor
01-02-2017, 11:09
Nadal, wey

can you explained why you peeked the people you did?

seems strange to peek cuth of all people and atheotes on n1???

Atheotes pushed for choxorn to be lynched D1 (or at least suggested it).

Barto was LHF never getting out of the PoE

Cuth bad peek at that time (why not me, why not winston, why not monty???)

Zack, fine peek.

Walk me through why you peeked who you did on the nights you did please

Visor
01-02-2017, 11:10
Atheotes was SUPER clear after d1, why peek him?

Monstrdude
01-02-2017, 11:12
Atheotes was SUPER clear after d1, why peek him?

Bussing, wey. You never know.

Doesn't matter now

Cuth is because I'm stupid and never listen to myself

Barto because I wanted to keep myself alive longer if he was a wolf and steal a mislynch from the wolves if he was a villager

Visor
01-02-2017, 11:14
Bussing, wey. You never know.

Doesn't matter now

Cuth is because I'm stupid and never listen to myself

Barto because I wanted to keep myself alive longer if he was a wolf and steal a mislynch from the wolves if he was a villager

Barto fair

but why investigate for bussing n1?

surely clearing up people off the wagon steals mislynches away even easier?

Monstrdude
01-02-2017, 11:15
Barto fair

but why investigate for bussing n1?

surely clearing up people off the wagon steals mislynches away even easier?

Yeah, but I was in a "I want to crack open the game" kind of mood n1 and I just let my feelings take control because I have no self control

Visor
01-02-2017, 11:16
:///

ugh.

alright, I'll have to see how this one plays out.

Visor
01-02-2017, 11:21
Monstr you have a unique position


Who are.wolves and villagers then

What are the teams?

atheotes
01-02-2017, 11:41
oh..wow.
I am piqued by the timing.
Why do you want to be Chancellor?

Monstrdude
01-02-2017, 12:16
It's possible that Zack is bussing one of schema and Fenn but I definitely don't think it's schema

I mean, Winston has the tunnel thing going for him and also Renata thought he was a villager real hard d1 and the friends of my friends are still my friends + I kinda thought he's been villagery

Could be dice

Could be Riedquat

Could be you and monty, visor, but I guess that depends on whether or not you can find the remaining wolves with me

I want to be chancellor because idk, should be lock clear unless I'm missing something

Even if it were fake I have no motivation to fake scum peeks as a wolf + it's about damn time I got some got dang respect in this game we call yelling wolf

Visor
01-02-2017, 12:29
So order the remaining players, please

Monstrdude
01-02-2017, 12:35
Schema
Winston
Monty
Dice/fenn/visor/riedquat

I really hate reads lists btw, they don't account for all of your thoughts surrounding everything because reads aren't so simple as "this is always the case for this reason."

WW is a game of probability

Visor
01-02-2017, 12:36
Schema
Winston
Monty
Dice/fenn/visor/riedquat

I really hate reads lists btw, they don't account for all of your thoughts surrounding everything because reads aren't so simple as "this is always the case for this reason."

WW is a game of probability

I am also not really a fan of read lists I just want to see you verbalise it.

why is dice so low to you, talk to me about his game

Monstrdude
01-02-2017, 12:38
I am also not really a fan of read lists I just want to see you verbalise it.

why is dice so low to you, talk to me about his game

He was higher, and I think his tone is good but "people that fit on teams with Zack" is a small list

Monstrdude
01-02-2017, 12:42
I'm prolly gonna be gone for a long time. I didn't sleep last night and I work today so I'm gonna crash eventually then probably have to go straight to work

I can post soon as I'm off prolly

Monstrdude
01-02-2017, 12:56
Ftr, there should be more than one scum left after Zack (probably), so we should have multiple wagons today because the probability of having multiple wolf wagons is really pretty high at this stage in the game comparatively

So everyone bring your a game

Winston Hughes
01-02-2017, 13:20
I thought pizza hated cops.

And with a watcher as well.

Still think Zack's scum, though, so what the hell:

Vote: Zack

Also...

Vote: Winston

Because I care?

Winston Hughes
01-02-2017, 13:21
Feel free to ask me questions.

If you're lucky, I might even answer them.

Montmorency
01-02-2017, 15:16
Well, you started going after Barto D3, not during D2 - but at the beginning of D2, what was the point of talking with Renata and others like this:



I kinda think El Barto is a villager? I'm not sure I have the stones to make that read confidently but his post about me when he said he wasn't sure about what it was that I did that pinged him pseudo pocketed me

I don't think my villager list has changed you're all villagery and we lynched a wolf


This is all stuff that happened around the time the wagons were forming to cuth-choxorn and it seemed like he was trying to take his district and replace choxorn with sooh

I mean, that would give tons of credence to El barto being a villager, which would make Winston more likely to be a wolf and also I suspect Winston, so thanks to confirmation bias this is all now guaranteed to be true your welcome

(It's not because cuth has a village list that lessens support of this theory in that it doesn't include any of the potential wolf candidates)

But who knows. It seems like one of him and visor is likely to be a wolf at least


A lot of them were me

Hello friend, I await your reads because clearing or condemning your slot is of utmost importance!*

*
This statement has not been evaluated by the FDA


Barto is a wolf probably 40% of the time for that alone

But it doesn't matter the village will win in spite of him if he's a villager


I said I think you're a villager dude

That's what I meant

Christ



If you commit that deep to progressing a read for the sake of not crumbing (leaving aside whether or not you clearly crumbed later), then I could expect the same from your scum gambit.

And yet, if you are scum and wrong about Zack, it hopefully isn't much worse than a wash if we lynch Zack. If you are scum and Zack is lynched scum, then whatever you gain by that can't last through endgame.

Ultimately - ffs, Zack. You broke my heart.

Vote: Zack


It's possible that Zack is bussing one of schema and Fenn but I definitely don't think it's schema

I mean, Winston has the tunnel thing going for him and also Renata thought he was a villager real hard d1 and the friends of my friends are still my friends + I kinda thought he's been villagery

Could be dice

Could be Riedquat

Could be you and monty, visor, but I guess that depends on whether or not you can find the remaining wolves with me

I want to be chancellor because idk, should be lock clear unless I'm missing something

Even if it were fake I have no motivation to fake scum peeks as a wolf + it's about damn time I got some got dang respect in this game we call yelling wolf

By your claim atheotes is just as clear. Also, one thing: Chancelor is for life. Tomorrow, there will be no more districts (fewer than 9 players).. If you are Chancellor, you should die, therefore leaving us without a Chancellor. Atheotes as Chancellor may have an extra day to exercise the office of Chancellor.

Also, I don't trust that Zack-Winston spat so much.

Montmorency
01-02-2017, 15:28
atheotes Monstrbro

To restate, atheotes should be Chancellor because we won't be able to select Chancellor again after this instance and Chancellor atheotes is more likely to have multiple days to give us than Chancellor Monstrbro.

Monstrbro and atheotes should be Reps. I'm not sure who else might be Rep, but the pick should have symbolic value (since Monstr and atheotes overrule). Districts grouping doesn't matter at all since they dissolve tomorrow, but Monstr and atheotes do need to be elected. That seems the only imperative we have atm. Therefore:

District 1
MONSTRBRO
Visor
Montmorency
Riedquat
District 2
ATHEOTES
dicetosser
Fenn
Winston
District 3
Schema
Zack
Riedquat

Winston Hughes
01-02-2017, 15:33
Also, I don't trust that Zack-Winston spat so much.

Yeah, sure you do.

You're his scumbuddy.

Montmorency
01-02-2017, 15:49
Yeah, sure you do.

You're his scumbuddy.

Who is our partner?

Winston Hughes
01-02-2017, 15:51
Who is our partner?

No idea.

Montmorency
01-02-2017, 15:57
No idea.

You, eh? We can make this work, Winnie.

Winston Hughes
01-02-2017, 16:05
You, eh? We can make this work, Winnie.

Although you've only been 10% less obvious than Zack, I must give you credit for being 100% more imaginitive.

Zack
01-02-2017, 16:34
Those peeks are all flipped out obvious (atheotes). Why the hell would you make any of those? When have i ever not just posted lolcats after getting peeked as a wolf?

You just don't think anyone will follow you unless you fake claim.

Zack
01-02-2017, 16:37
Anyone who believes pizza put a full cop in here is a fool. He hates cos and there's already a watcher anyways.

Zack
01-02-2017, 16:38
Vote: monstr

Zack
01-02-2017, 16:48
Here are all tallies up to now, for reference.


DAY 1

















DAY 2









DAY 3













DAY 4






Monster didn't even vote barto after he peeked him. Lol. Sounds legit.

Zack
01-02-2017, 16:58
why would you not claim all the peeks with the initial claim? Probably because they're not real.

Zack
01-02-2017, 17:02
Even if it were fake I have no motivation to fake scum peeks as a wolf + it's about damn time I got some got dang respect in this game we call yelling wolf
no way. I gave you a chance to back off and say it was just a reaction test, and you doubled down on your fake claim.

Also you don't get to fake a red peek on a villager then complain if it backfires and people wolf read you for it. You made your own bed.

Montmorency
01-02-2017, 17:20
no way. I gave you a chance to back off and say it was just a reaction test, and you doubled down on your fake claim.

Also you don't get to fake a red peek on a villager then complain if it backfires and people wolf read you for it. You made your own bed.

Zack, if Monstr fakes a peek as scum, claiming town is scum, then he dies. For the wrong flip and in any case for not getting NKed before LYLO. Monstr was one of the last consensus town remaining. He could easily ride to final 6 on that. Why claim that, unless to divert attention from imminent lynch of a partner? And it wouldn't be Schema, who was at least up for grabs, could survive the day, and not in the least worth sacrificing Monstr for.

But if Monstr isn't covering for Schema, then whom? Fenn? Also a lynch candidate, but possibly worth even less than Schema.

How does scum Monstr (while town Zack) do this? If the team is Monstr-Schema-Fenn? :dizzy2:

Montmorency
01-02-2017, 17:23
Also note, if there are only 2 scum, then this kind of gambit by Monstr to interfere in cases against a partner makes even less sense.

At least, these are the parameters in which you have to frame your argument, Zack. This can't be simple by any stretch, to contest the claim.

Zack
01-02-2017, 17:26
Zack, if Monstr fakes a peek as scum, claiming town is scum, then he dies. For the wrong flip and in any case for not getting NKed before LYLO. Monstr was one of the last consensus town remaining. He could easily ride to final 6 on that. Why claim that, unless to divert attention from imminent lynch of a partner? And it wouldn't be Schema, who was at least up for grabs, could survive the day, and not in the least worth sacrificing Monstr for.

But if Monstr isn't covering for Schema, then whom? Fenn? Also a lynch candidate, but possibly worth even less than Schema.

How does scum Monstr (while town Zack) do this? If the team is Monstr-Schema-Fenn? :dizzy2:
I don't care, if he's going to pull stuff like this he can go find a nice noose.

Fenn
01-02-2017, 18:14
Did I not vote yesterday? Yikes.


Why Monty? Monty is the one who made the above post breaking down the spread. He's looking at the logic of the votes and notes it could be clearing for me. Do you think a scum Monty would point that out?

It wouldn't be unheard of for scum to defend a villager, like if he wants you to vote with him to lynch me.

Fenn
01-02-2017, 18:17
Monstr is town, there's no way he'd claim cop today as scum. Much easier to keep pushing me who he's been after for a few days.


I have never made leading arguments towards any of the major cases of the past 4 days. The only lynch you can credit as even in accord with my current wishes might be the GH lynch.

That's not very reassuring when two of those lynches were wolves.

Fenn
01-02-2017, 18:26
Monster didn't even vote barto after he peeked him. Lol. Sounds legit.



District 2
Cass Renata / Barto
Renata Renata / Barto
Monstr Renata / Barto
Barto Cass / Monty


Sounds like he did.

Fenn
01-02-2017, 18:27
That's the D3 tally btw; Monstr is claiming a N2 Barto peek here which would match with his change in position from D2->D3.

Montmorency
01-02-2017, 18:28
Sounds like he did.

That was d3. Zack was referring to D2.

Montmorency
01-02-2017, 18:30
That's the D3 tally btw; Monstr is claiming a N2 Barto peek here which would match with his change in position from D2->D3.

Gotcha.

Zack
01-02-2017, 18:32
Oh, I only saw Monty's tallies.

They're still not real peeks.

Montmorency
01-02-2017, 18:36
There's just no counter for it. Everything from Monstr adds up, now especially when the activity wrt Barto D2 is put in context.

Monstrdude
01-02-2017, 19:02
Monster didn't even vote barto after he peeked him. Lol. Sounds legit.

Peeked n2 voted him all day d3

Ya this inconsistency is real glaring

Monstrdude
01-02-2017, 19:03
I don't care, if he's going to pull stuff like this he can go find a nice noose.

Bark bark

Monstrdude
01-02-2017, 19:05
no way. I gave you a chance to back off and say it was just a reaction test, and you doubled down on your fake claim.

Also you don't get to fake a red peek on a villager then complain if it backfires and people wolf read you for it. You made your own bed.

This is an insane overreaction btdubs

Zack
01-02-2017, 19:19
This is an insane overreaction btdubs

Nothing of value was edited out. - GH

Zack
01-02-2017, 19:21
Nothing of value was edited out. - GH

Monstrdude
01-02-2017, 19:24
Nothing of value was edited out. - GH

Monstrdude
01-02-2017, 19:25
Nothing of value was edited out. - GH

Monstrdude
01-02-2017, 19:34
Nothing of value was edited out. - GH

Montmorency
01-02-2017, 19:40
Strangely acrimonious game this has been, for the lack of investment and grandeur from the players. Maybe it's the season.

Montmorency
01-02-2017, 19:42
Nothing of value was edited out. - GH

I hope you can find the peace of mind to help us be Ok. Take a break for as long as you need.

Schema
01-02-2017, 19:46
Considering atheotes is the least debated player at this point,

Vote: atheotes

Schema
01-02-2017, 19:49
Strangely acrimonious game this has been, for the lack of investment and grandeur from the players. Maybe it's the season.


Tis the season to keep scumhunting.

Thoughts on Fenn's appearance and defense of Monstrbro's peek?

Schema
01-02-2017, 19:55
Both players this upset is a little ridiculous.

Thoughts on a mafia redirector in the game? I don't think it's out of line to consider that possibility rn.

Monstrdude
01-02-2017, 19:57
Edited

Monstrdude
01-02-2017, 19:58
Edited

Winston Hughes
01-02-2017, 19:59
Edited

I know exactly how you feel. Was there myself not long ago.

For what it's worth, I've really enjoyed playing this game with you.

Zack
01-02-2017, 20:05
Pleaes just lynch me or remove me from the game somehow.

Schema
01-02-2017, 20:07
Edited

Oh so that's what unclaimed seer meant. Didn't click with me like "I'm unclaiming" might have for whatever reason. Different sites, different lingo.

Monstrdude
01-02-2017, 20:07
Pleaes just lynch me or remove me from the game somehow.

Sorry, but it's not a reaction test unless the entire thread reacts

Didn't mean to upset you but that's the way life goes

Schema
01-02-2017, 20:08
I know exactly how you feel. Was there myself not long ago.

For what it's worth, I've really enjoyed playing this game with you.
Monstrbro

Seconded

Monstrdude
01-02-2017, 20:09
unvote
unvote

Later friends. Have a good life

Zack
01-02-2017, 20:13
Sorry, but it's not a reaction test unless the entire thread reacts

Didn't mean to upset you but that's the way life goes
I don't get how you didn't think going through with that and then coming back to smugly rub it in my face wouldn't be upsetting, but whatever. I'm an :daisy: and no one here wants me in the game anyways.

Schema
01-02-2017, 20:13
Alright, summoning the lowposters.

dicetosser1
Riedquat
Fenn

Hello!

dicetosser1 -- Your post #3072 looks pretty awful right now if Zack flips town.

Riedquat -- I know you haven't been around much at all but a few reads would be nice.

Fenn -- You were very quick to come in and defend Monstr's read and back dice's assessment that scum Monty could bring that kind of vote logic. You went from hard townreading me to shading my late arrival to vote the last game day (showing up AFTER I had, btw) then back to saying why a scum Monty would want me to vote for you. It's very go-with-the-flow -- so long as the flow is away from you. Please provide rebuttal.

Schema
01-02-2017, 20:16
Alright, summoning the lowposters.

dicetosser1
Riedquat
Fenn

Hello!

dicetosser1 -- Your post #3072 looks pretty awful right now if Zack flips town.

Riedquat -- I know you haven't been around much at all but a few reads would be nice.

Fenn -- You were very quick to come in and defend Monstr's read and back dice's assessment that scum Monty could bring that kind of vote logic. You went from hard townreading me to shading my late arrival to vote the last game day (showing up AFTER I had, btw) then back to saying why a scum Monty would want me to vote for you. It's very go-with-the-flow -- so long as the flow is away from you. Please provide rebuttal.

EBWOP -- Monstr's read = Monstr's peek

I'm distracted

Monstrdude
01-02-2017, 20:17
I don't get how you didn't think going through with that and then coming back to smugly rub it in my face wouldn't be upsetting, but whatever. I'm an :daisy: and no one here wants me in the game anyways.

Zack I like you as a person

I did think there was a nonzero chance it would upset you if you were a villager, and I definitely wasn't rubbing anything in your face

You're not an :daisy:, and I still like you. I wouldn't be saying any of this if I didn't regret making you feel like an :daisy:

Please stop trying to paint me as doing all these things I'm not. I'm rubbing nothing in your face. I made a judgement call, and now I don't want to play anymore

Monstrdude
01-02-2017, 20:18
The only thing this experience has taught me is that this game brings out the worst in people

You are still a cool guy, imdone

Monstrdude
01-02-2017, 20:20
I'm not gonna quit for the sake of the village not losing me for no reason other than my own feelings

I'm better than that

I'll reread the thread and try to find a scum today

Askthepizzaguy
01-02-2017, 20:21
Game host / Moderator instruction:

Everyone please stop posting for a while.

The game is over, there will be no more play. I will discuss the setup, reveal stuff, and so forth soon. But the game has ended, because it's gotten out of hand a bit.

I want to thank everyone who played, especially our new players and our on-hand sub player, and suggest that this is an atypical result here on the org, as in it's probably never happened before. If you check our other games, it usually goes a lot more smoothly than this. But I understand if you had a bad experience.

Just want you to know, as the game host, I appreciated your efforts and I hope there were parts of the game that were fun or interesting.

More to come

Monstrdude
01-02-2017, 20:22
Yay..?

Zack
01-02-2017, 20:22
Sorry, monstr. I get heated easily and will swear/rage/say things I don't mean. I said some things that were unfair to you and I apologize, I still like you too. :) I should have just waited a few hours so I could cool down.

Still don't plan on playing any more mafia in the foreseeable future, though. If I ever do it would be on a new account to get a fresh start, if that's allowed.

GeneralHankerchief
01-02-2017, 20:37
The important thing here is that everybody seems to agree that things got out of hand of their own volition. :bow:

Considering the ultimate end result of this game, I'm going to remove some of the more acrimonious content of this thread in the next 24 hours, and we'll then proceed from there in a meta sense.

Thank you everyone for your participation. Every single one of you has been a positive addition to this game and this forum. Sometimes stuff happens. :bow:

GeneralHankerchief
01-02-2017, 20:41
As an addendum, let's keep all postgame discussion related to this game specifically in this thread. Anything with a larger scope should go in the Gameroom Policy Discussion thread.

Askthepizzaguy
01-02-2017, 20:58
You may post again if you read the conditions at the bottom of this post carefully.

Alright, the game is going to be marked as a town victory, as the mafia team did concede. And well played to the town for crushing it.

There were some setup decisions that can be questioned, on my part, as well as the fact that I was rather liberal with what happens if you don't vote all round. At least it was in bold red in the OP. But, anything I did this game can easily be questioned, without complaint from me. Setup, host decisions, whatever you like. Aim was always to have a fun game, and the signup sheet does make mention of the fact that this game might have been a bad idea. (lol)

So, long story short on what went down-

Player who is in the unenviable position of being the last remaining scum had been dealing with a frustrating hand being dealt to his team, possible setup/balancing issues, and personal friction between himself and other players, being forced to carry on alone in a long endgame against a lot of townies who were clear.

In that position, he managed to destroy almost all the townies that were lock clear by one way or another, and did very well with his murder choices, imo.

He also had one power, the ability to scan for vanilla townies (and only vanilla townies- anything else would just show up as not vanilla townie, no additional info).

Setup was such that I felt town would have the biggest difficulty- most of their lynch votes wouldn't affect the outcome, putting most townies in a terrible individual position for affecting game outcome.

As you could see also, if they were not a cleared townie, by virtue of role or having been one of the only ones with a valid lynch vote on a scum, there was little defense.

Town should have in theory been in the worse position, thus, I made scum relatively un-powered, and gave town only a watcher and a n3 vigilante. But midday d1, everything started going wrong for the scum team. Town had managed to sniff them out, and they got taken out very quickly, leaving just one.

In a pretty frustrating position with little hope. But, instead of conceding, he carried on.

It's just that, he was already frustrated and stressed out, and he knew for a fact that Monstr was not a cop. Because he found him to be a vanilla townie with his power.

If you've ever been fakepeeked, as town or scum, and you know for a fact that it's a lie, it can cause you to lose your cool, even if you weren't already feeling under the gun. I myself have been in several games where people have done bad fakepeeks, ones I knew were lies, as town or scum, and the issue is, it's very difficult to convince people they're wrong. And it feels cheap. It's such a frustrating position to be in.

In any case, most of us have throughout the years gotten frustrated and broke the civility rules. I can say as a longtime friend and fellow player of Zack's, this was not his typical self. I must have played 100 games with him so far personally, it's just not his usual. And it was understandable from where I sat. But, other players felt frustrated, and having a moment of rage in a game doesn't feel right if you have to carry on alone, putting on a performance for people, if you're not having fun, and some of them aren't. Some things are more important than continuing play.

The rule number one is we're here to have fun. Once we're not, it's time to move on.

The mafia quicktopic and the dead quicktopic are not to be revealed, but you can paraphrase and summarize any thoughts you want to share from there which would not cause animosity between players.

The setup of the game was:

1 Mafia Vanilla cop
2 Mafia Goons
1 Town Watcher
1 Night Three Town vigilante
Rest were vanilla townies

Mafia got 2 extra kills as a result of non-voting. Because it risks a modkill, those slots could be considered clear, while the mafia team have to post. As such, they were given compensatory shots which were designed to help them keep up with the game which was already lopsided in town's favor. They could shoot the non-voters, or they could shoot the cleared townies, which would have made it more competitive, so that's what they decided.

I understand not everyone will like that decision, and I may never implement it in another game. However, there was an ambiguous dire result that was forewarned if people didn't place a valid vote, mentioned in the OP. As such, there's only so much grumbling you can have. (wink) I am kind of evil, ya know.

Here's what I would like:

1) Constructive criticism of the game setup or mechanics only, as I've already admitted (in the sign up title, even) that it probably wasn't a sound idea. I even called it bad.

2) Positive comments only about people's play.

3) Please don't discuss the interpersonal issues which led to the game ending. And please show respect, even if you felt animosity this game, which is atypical of the org, I swear to god.

4) You may post now if you can meet those conditions. It is post-game.

Monstrdude
01-02-2017, 21:00
2 more wolves, one is a wolf vig

Zack played really well

Dp101
01-02-2017, 21:04
I feel the overall setup is not inherently flawed. Town was lucky in that they both a. managed to get town as chancellor early and b. lynched mafia the first day, clearing a bunch of them, but if the chancellor was scum or we didn't hit mafia D1 the number of cleared town players drops dramatically and the game becomes a lot harder. I would be happy playing this setup again. Only real thing that I would maybe appreciate seeing changed is the requirement for the number of districts to be odd, given how often the vote tied it doesn't seem like having 4 districts would have made much of a difference.

Monstrdude
01-02-2017, 21:11
Zack was almost chancellor d1

If he had been this would have been a completely different game

Monstrdude
01-02-2017, 21:12
Maybe just the one more wolf, and make him a one shot or two shot vig

Monstrdude
01-02-2017, 21:12
I had a lot of fun with everyone too

I think I'm gonna stick around

Monstrdude
01-02-2017, 21:18
The thing is though only a certain amount of people would have ever had a chance to become chancellor in this game

Mafia is weird like that

Renata
01-02-2017, 21:22
For what it's worth, I thought Zack's push on Schema today was terrific, from my position over in the dead thread. I said it's the towniest I'd seen him all game. I was practically clapping at one post, it was so spot on.

I think town did a great job with its clears, even if maybe a little overstingy in a couple of cases. That's always a fun position to be in, as a townie.

I'm glad I made it all the way to night three. :p

Game setup -- yeah, another mafia would not have been bad, I think. I don't like the extra kills being awarded in the way that they punish those who are participating over those who aren't. I'm not sure I'd want to see that again. But you did warn us (I'd forgotten all about it).

The voting thing wound up being rather pro-town, I think? Though it might not always be. But like only three people had signed on to choxorn needing to die on day one (me, atheotes, Dp), one of those grudgingly (and Visor did also like the idea but voted for someone else), and he still died. I don't know if I could have gotten him lynched in the normal way. It's not something I'm particularly good at. Again, the good day one and the clear townies resulting from that played a big role in the whole representative thing not turning into a massive distrustful mess.

I feel like many of the possibilities of the voting system (campaigning, trying to represent your district properly, etc) fell by the wayside due to the circumstances and the lack of time for too many, but what can you do. I had fun.

Renata
01-02-2017, 21:23
Zack was almost chancellor d1

If he had been this would have been a completely different game

Good point. Thank you for being so very, very townie on day one, Cass.

Askthepizzaguy
01-02-2017, 21:27
Jabbz
Schema
Fenn
Monstrbro
dicetosser1
Cass_

I was pleasantly surprised by all of you. When we invite new people to the org, it's typically a crapshoot of folks who don't even bother to post.

On an unfamiliar forum with lots of people you didn't know, you showed up and all played very well. Many of you self-clearing, many of you finding scums, all of you interacting, giving reads, and being not a total dead zone where no one has a chance to read. You guys all have a lot to be proud of about your town game.

I really appreciate you coming and playing with us on the org. If you care to be mentioned for upcoming games in sign-ups, let us know. We'd all love it if you were to stick around.

Fenn
01-02-2017, 21:35
Honestly I thought I played terribly (the Montmorency tunnel...), but, I'd play again in upcoming games. Thanks for organizing this ATPG!

Renata
01-02-2017, 21:38
You got Dp101 over in the dead thread hoping and praying that Cass wouldn't kill you because he was so sure this was your town game. :)

Askthepizzaguy
01-02-2017, 21:41
Honestly I thought I played terribly (the Montmorency tunnel...), but, I'd play again in upcoming games. Thanks for organizing this ATPG!

That's the thing, you took over a spot in a bad position and a lot of people thought you were town.

You don't have to be the player on the team who is actually spiking the football after a touchdown to have been an integral part of that touchdown, so to speak.

In mafia, just being a widely townread townie is a huge help. it's like throwing a block or guarding the passer, or someone else who isn't on scoring duty, helping the team not lose by not being a mislynch is at least 50% of being a townie or better.

Askthepizzaguy
01-02-2017, 21:44
Also, speaking from experience, Monty is virtually unreadable since his thinking process is so different.

That said, I have to believe I would have been town reading him this game. Every round he actually kept doing so many things that scums forget to do. Just showing up at the start of round with big analyses, doing all the tally stuff, being out there and controversial but not in a way that confuses the discussion or tries to seek power, I felt like he really hit his stride on being a townie here.

Might have been my easy perspective from above the clouds, but I would have had a hard time reading a lot of these townies as scums this game.

Cuth, on the other hand...

Cuthillius

I love you, Cuth. But you remind me of me and my inability to self-clear these days. Hehehe.

Riedquat
01-02-2017, 21:51
Did I win? :hide:

Thanks for hosting Atpg, and really sorry to all for my lack of commitment! :bow:

Askthepizzaguy
01-02-2017, 21:51
Did I win? :hide:

Thanks for hosting Atpg, and really sorry to all for my lack of commitment! :bow:

Bah, your posts were as entertaining as ever to read.

Winston Hughes
01-02-2017, 22:17
Three-man team?

Mind blown.

Zack's wim was incredible.

To keep on battling, against those odds, under that pressure...

:bow:

Zack
01-02-2017, 22:17
Should host a new game with different lynch mechanics. To vote to lynch someone, you have to use ":sweetheart: Kiss: :sweetheart:" instead of "Vote:" in bold pink.


Zack is totally a wolf. He did that thing where he claimed to wolfread his partner while consistently pushing everyone else except that partner. He is a scumbag of the highest order, and has left me no choice but to:

":sweetheart: Kiss: Zack :sweetheart:

:laugh4:

Dp101
01-02-2017, 22:18
I'd play that.

Monstrdude
01-02-2017, 22:18
Three-man team?

Mind blown.

Zack's wim was incredible.

To keep on battling, against those odds, under that pressure...

:bow:

Seconded

I have been in that situation before. You almost always lose, and it always sucks

Zack
01-02-2017, 22:21
Three-man team?

Mind blown.

Zack's wim was incredible.

To keep on battling, against those odds, under that pressure...

:bow:
I don't know if wim is the right term here. More like:

https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png

Zack
01-02-2017, 22:22
People were suspecting me for the wrong reasons, Winston. Am I supposed to just... let that slide? :no:

Askthepizzaguy
01-02-2017, 22:22
I'd play that because it's the most fun you can have.

Oh, except all those times I got mad about it. Those times sucked, but the other times when I was on fire it was pretty sweet. The other times, it was more like literally being on fire...

Zack
01-02-2017, 22:25
Oh, after finishing Cereal Killers on MU and seeing that setup, I felt great shame at all the complaining I did about this one. At least this one resembled mafia.

Zack
01-02-2017, 22:27
I'd play that.


I'd play that because it's the most fun you can have.

Oh, except all those times I got mad about it. Those times sucked, but the other times when I was on fire it was pretty sweet. The other times, it was more like literally being on fire...
I'll seriously open sign-ups for it right now if there's interest for it. I did enough to ruin the mood of this one, I want to host one where I can do the opposite.

Jabbz

You too man. I'm not always a mean asshole like I was here, and you were 100% correct to call me out the way you did. Hopefully you can see my better side sometime. :2thumbsup:

Askthepizzaguy
01-02-2017, 22:34
Oh, after finishing Cereal Killers on MU and seeing that setup, I felt great shame at all the complaining I did about this one. At least this one resembled mafia.

I saw over Sooh's shoulder how that game setup looked.

The following presentation is a moment of silence for the part of me that died.



































































.

Dp101
01-02-2017, 22:35
Hey, at least the host was nice and I enjoyed it. Insanity is fun every once in a while, although I think it should have been advertised as such.

Askthepizzaguy
01-02-2017, 22:39
Hey, at least the host was nice and I enjoyed it. Insanity is fun every once in a while, although I think it should have been advertised as such.

I have nothing but respect for the game host himself, I should have made that clearer but it was funnier how I posted it.

I remember one time on the discord we were talking about hosting a mafia game with all of the elements in it that had made us angry over the years, and that particular setup had at least four or five of the things you should never have in a game setup in it.

You learn that from experience. Sometimes it's a painful one.

I think we should try the all jesters game where the jesters are the town and the mafia will be able to resurrect townies. It will be a blast.

And the mafia will be recruitable but they won't win with the cult even after having been cult and helped cult win.

That latter one might have been a real game I'm still angry at like 7 years later. Replace might with is, and you've got it perfectly.

Jabbz
01-02-2017, 22:41
I'll seriously open sign-ups for it right now if there's interest for it. I did enough to ruin the mood of this one, I want to host one where I can do the opposite.

Jabbz

You too man. I'm not always a mean asshole like I was here, and you were 100% correct to call me out the way you did. Hopefully you can see my better side sometime. :2thumbsup:

It's all good man. I don't do grudges. Maybe next time things will play out differently.

Zack
01-02-2017, 22:42
I think we should try the all jesters game

that was like the third game I hosted

Zack
01-02-2017, 22:42
It's all good man. I don't do grudges. Maybe next time things will play out differently.

:beam:

Winston Hughes
01-02-2017, 22:47
I swear, half the reason I suspected Zack in the first place is because I expected him to like Jabbz. :laugh4:

Zack
01-02-2017, 22:51
I swear, half the reason I suspected Zack in the first place is because I expected him to like Jabbz. :laugh4:
When do I like people who vote me? As any alignment?

Askthepizzaguy
01-02-2017, 23:00
I swear, half the reason I suspected Zack in the first place is because I expected him to like Jabbz. :laugh4:

...He's a good kid.


https://media2.giphy.com/media/HBThqYx50bYjK/200_s.gif



That's all the time we have. Join us next week with our guest.... ALBERT EINSTEIN!!!

What?

Well apparently Albert Einstein died 62 years ago. You know what, we'll try to get him anyway. See you next time! Cubs win! Cubs win!

Winston Hughes
01-02-2017, 23:17
When do I like people who vote me? As any alignment?

Yeah, it was one of those dumb D1 reasons that you know is built out of shit, but it sticks around in the back of your head anyway.

Cass_
01-02-2017, 23:53
Thanks everyone for having me along this game :sweetheart: Please never have me as Chancellor again!!

Game setup .... I'm still wracking my brains trying to come up with the ultimate way to order votes and things to make all player votes count more??? It was really frustrating for me to watch people get despondent/feel like they didn't count, and to know that scum would be able to use the setup to hide votes whenever/wherever they wished. In the end I went with my vote at EoD being my own and tie-breakers should be majority vote unless I had a rampant scum lean to the contrary?

I would have liked the Chancellor role to have included an option to step down at points rather than being chained to the position for life. Perhaps at the start of days, decision to be submitted overnight?

I think another scum might be a good addition, the mafia team may have been in even more trouble had we not lost our Watcher N1?

As always, ATPG flavour = <3. Even if he was totally cloaked and twisting strings to keep things according to plan from behind the scenes. Thanks for the game and inviting us along.

I would love to know any of the funny/positive things that were going on in the mafia QT throughout the game, and whether there was any sort of structured game-plan from that end.


Other stuff:
I generally really like the community here and I'll try and pop in for small games now and then if I have the time ... even if GH is going to hold his mislynch over my head forever and ever and evermore :laugh4:

Zack, amazing effort for being the last standing wolf after Chox and Barto.
Choxorn and El Barto, sorrynotsorry we got you so soon :P <3

To everyone else, I enjoyed playing with you and think most Townies played a pretty clear game here - sorry for the ridiculous amount of tinfoil my brain concocts, and for the incessant questioning that pumps up volume even if I want a small game >.<
Fenn and Schema, when it came down to deciding between you two and Al Sips on my final day, I didn't want to lynch any of you, went with Al Sips for having more votes and less content, and Schema your WIM really came out then and towards the end so <3 (also lol Dp101 begging in the DT for me not to kill Fenn - I actually had Fenn as default but couldn't go through with it in the end, there were parts where his tone was too pure!)
Renata, you were seriously my rock the first couple of days, I hear you on the not sustainable bit, but thanks for coming through so strongly and succinctly and for ultimately being Town :D - If you had voted Cuth over Barto D3 I think it would've broke me down.
Montmorency It didn't stop my tinfoil that you might be puppet-master, but I'm going to agree with Pizza that your play was pretty pro-Town throughout - the logic and puzzling you put into the thread were encouraging good play and clarity - sorry I didn't ever entirely let the tinfoil go!

Montmorency
01-02-2017, 23:54
Wow to game.

For balance of core vote mechanic: leadership. In this game, Cass came as a dark horse townie stronger than everyone else. She made this possible, like wheels and an engine make a car possible. RNG and the player group do define more than we can grasp in the event.

More later.

Winston Hughes
01-02-2017, 23:57
Cass ruled town brilliantly.

Her D1 was amazingly pure, and as Chancellor she struck a perfect balance between the mob and the crown.

Cass_
01-03-2017, 00:03
This is for Cuthillius , because he posted it in our first game together and it comes to mind and makes me smile every game since when I feel I'm floundering for readz:


Who's the most scummy...

https://i.imgur.com/pyHoykw.gif

Winston Hughes
01-03-2017, 00:09
Renata was Renata.

Gone five years, but she's still the player I'd choose to town with above any other.

Natural born scumhunter.

Zack
01-03-2017, 00:16
I would love to know any of the funny/positive things that were going on in the mafia QT throughout the game


My claim to have forgotten the game started was honestly totally accurate- I legit did make that post at the start, go do something else, completely forget about the game, and not remember until well into the following day


sooh didn't claim anything specific i don't think

i sort of suspect she didn't specify because she's 1-time bulletproof or something
(el barto then informs me sooh hardclaimed watcher... lol)


i also think we need an extension because it's kinda important to see who is lynched. and also as choxorn said it wouldn't be fair to town PRs otherwise.

though maybe they deserve it for electing an australian who is never going to be around for eod as chancellor.


I really think that your dying breath should be used to curse Zoidberg.


Foolish townies. You think there was some meaning or spews behind my posts, when in reality I was totally winging it and had no idea what I was doing.


Just roleclaim a 400-foot-tall purple platypus bear with pink horns and silver wings, see how they react to that.

Or maybe Melon Lord. Or Wang Fire.

---

after gh's lynch :bounce:


GH was lynched, both of you are still alive.


What lol


what lol indeed

poor cass gonna be devastated in postgame...


I don't understand why she keeps voting tak then breaking the tie favor of someone else


Basically: Cass voted El Barto to distance on day 1 and it backfired horribly, and now she's continuing to do it to avoid arousing suspicion.

What's your real opinion on Barto, Cass? Huh?


‘He's devilishly handsome’.

---


Conspiracy theory launched.


P.S. do not forget to react to my lame joke about EoD

---

after barto's lynch: :sweatdrop:


Pretty sure my tally is right, it matched Monty's all round and I've been tracking all the vote movements as they happened, but let me know if you think it's wrong.


It's wrong everyone voted for cass :(

---


All you have to do is force 7 mislynches, and you can win. You can do it! I believe in you! Believe in the me who believes in you!


90% of mafia is buzzwords


i'm not really complaining, it was an opportunity for grandstanding


(laughs evilly)

---

start of last day:


Monstr is vanilla.


Lol what the fuck

now dead qt's turn? :whip:

Cass_
01-03-2017, 00:19
:blush: <3

Tbqf I'm always always much more a scattercat of suspicions/possibilities than any sort of leader where decisions are involved. Being in the position of Chancellor was challenging and a very different take on the game for me. I felt like the biggest puppet, especially after mislynching GH D2.


Wow to game.

For balance of core vote mechanic: leadership. In this game, Cass came as a dark horse townie stronger than everyone else. She made this possible, like wheels and an engine make a car possible. RNG and the player group do define more than we can grasp in the event.

More later.

Question is - leadership to what? The vote spread always looked extra inconclusive to me compared to a normal game, and I don't think I really managed to actually lead anything at all! :laugh4: I'll wait for more ...<3 Neeeeiigghhhhhmmmmppphhffff




Cass ruled town brilliantly.

Her D1 was amazingly pure, and as Chancellor she struck a perfect balance between the mob and the crown.

I appreciated how purely you came in D1 too - I'm sure you could do the same as Scum
<.<
>.>
<.<

But the systematic/succinct way you entered the thread really helped me to center/focus myself some more, so thanks!

Montmorency
01-03-2017, 00:46
In this game, which surpassed even that record-shattering Futuramafia for its activity ere the TKO, I seemed to return to my dusty '12/13-era "ride the line" strategy, or, as Fenn described it, "trying to straddle the line between too towny too live and too scummy not to lynch." Some of my great performances are associated with this style. Usually, it results in epic fail. This game, it was mediocre at best in result for the team. After D1 Zack basically hovered around null for the game, and that's not so bad (though he really was too soft toward me), but I failed brutally in identifying what almost everyone else quickly noticed in Choxorn and Barto. :shrug: The only paltry personal successes for my scumdar, at least, were identifying town meta from atheotes and Riedquat - but the former showed it to the town at large fairly soon after and the latter...

I mean, I feel like I had more fun here than some, but I definitely did not play well.
Visor: Well, I felt better about you D2 once I thought on your wider style, but by D4 three remaining Mafia just didn't make sense without you as their deepwolf scumlord. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Fenn: You never tunneled me, rather the opposite. In fact, that was one of the worrying things, how reserved you were around your analyses. You should have been close to Riedquat-lean honestly, but I had one of my notorious hunches over Csargo and of course that just simmered. Would like to play with you and Al Sipsclar (because you seem like you would fit well together) in the next game.
Renata: I'm glad you were rocking out as town, because while you were alive I always felt self-conscious that my rampant screwiness should have you screaming townreads on me.
Monstrbro: Too pure to be possible. Scared to see you scum. I hope you play again. Avalanche-posting somehow worked in this game, though it strikes me as sacrilegious in the Org culture I wax conservative on.
imdone: Good performance. From my perspective, final scum being outed by fake peek has a certain poetic hilarity to it. Also, pseudonyms and name changes are so 2012. ~;) One thing though, why did you kill Jabbz N4 rather than Monstr or atheotes? I think I even had that big analysis post for potential killers that ruled you out because you wouldn't do it just out of spite!


Some thoughts on mechanics reprised from D1 or 2:

I thought you, Pizza would shift in the direction of 5 scum (though I personally, with my pro-town bias, would have made it 3) if anything then because of the number of potential lynches in the game (10), but also because of the fragility of the district mechanic, as below.

Assuming a long game of 10 lynches (i.e. 1-kill-1-lynch per round), then there would have been only 21/19/17/15/13/11/9 = 7 days of district voting, and only a handful of days for which 5 districts would have been possible. Overall, we need to think of ways to elaborate the district mechanics because here they were something of an afterthought. Reps need to have more power, unique power relating to the mechanic of the office rather than the typical sort of powers or abilities, and the Chancellor should have more power with respect to the Reps, and the Reps with respect to other Reps. Maybe "options" would be a better word to use, both to enhance possibilities of gameplay and for the sake of the political theme. We need to think of a way to to this that preserves the fundamental character of multi-leader election without relying on huge numbers of players to shore up the system (though that would be fun too). I might have specific ideas to present later on. Broadly, private comms between Reps was one change I raised earlier.

GeneralHankerchief
01-03-2017, 00:50
I feel like this game has a few similarities with Pirate Ship Mafia, strangely enough. Mostly this comes down to the leadership structure - in theory, a fun addition, but in practice, if uninfiltrated town can claim every slot and manage to get entrenched, it can be awful hard for mafia to do anything about it. Giving the reps/chancellor no immunity from the nightkills whatsoever was a good counter to this, but the problem was that the town was so on point this game that Zack et al were never going to escape the PoE no matter how strong their kill choices were.

I feel like the mechanics could use tweaking, but they were not the reason why this game was a town roflstomp.

GeneralHankerchief
01-03-2017, 00:52
Oh, and since the town dead QT isn't getting revealed, let me just quote one relevant section of it:


Cass's stated rationale for lynching me makes sense. I don't think she's played with me enough to be aware that I intentionally change my playstyle up every so often just for the hell of it.

Speaking of which, for people who read this in the future: I INTENTIONALLY CHANGE MY PLAYSTYLE UP EVERY SO OFTEN JUST FOR THE HELL OF IT. :P