Capo de Tutti Capi - II [Concluded]

[Louis VI the Fat]

Oh, might as well share it. There is an an attack points v defense points system in this game.

For example, the highest defense is a don, with approximately 90% defense points, ie. his odds of succesfuly repelling an attack. From what I gather, this lowers progressively for respectively: special roles, lucas, mades, wiseguys, townies.
For attack points, the list is something like, from highest to lowest: Sigurd, Crown/blade/shield, special roles, mafia, wiseguys, townies.

The attack v defense points of attacker(s) and defenders are then used to calculate the odds of a successful attack.

Sorry Seamus, but the system is obvious. ~;)


Edit:...or, at least I think it is. Odds are, of course, that my pompousity will succeed in making me look like a complete clown yet again once Seamus gives his final write-up at the end of the game. ~:mecry:

[TinCow]

There is no FBI evidence on Sigurd, this was a blatant lie. Logic dictates this, Sigurd is right. :yes:

The question is, Whether it was a well-intended lie to ease Sigurd’s lynching or something far worse, I still don’t know yet. Pity Sigurd was bandwagoned so easily, without much questioning.

I repeat Sigurd’s words: can we have an explanation, please?

I wanted to let JimBob answer this himself, but he hasn't checked a single PM I've sent him for the last 3 days, so I'm assuming he hasn't been online. Therefore, in the interests of furthering an understanding of the situation, I will respond.

Yes, the FBI evidence on Sigurd was a lie. There was other evidence that we received that pointed to Sigurd's guilt. We were not 100% sure of his role, but given the totality of the evidence, a Don seemed likely. The lie was used so that the real source of the information would not be revealed. The fabrication of the FBI evidence was actually done at the suggestion of the FBI Detective, because he knew that no one else would come forward to dispute it. Don't bother asking who this was or how I know he was the real FBI Detective. I will not give that information out.

Apologies for the deception, but it was deemed to be necessary to protect the true source of the information on Sigurd. We knew he was pro-mafia and we knew he was powerful. Fingering him as a Don seemed a reasonable course to take under the circumstances. I personally believe Sigurd's statements about him being a Hitman, as that role would fit into the evidence I have seen. So, perhaps we did not get Don Corleone, but we did at least get someone very important. That's one less kill per night right there.

[edit:]Addendum: We do have a detective result (non-FBI) on Sigurd from Night 1 which shows him as Innocent. Since he is a self-admitted pro-mafia, take that for what it's worth. It seems to me to be one of three options: (1) Hitman role shows as innocent, at least on nights when he doesn't kill. (2) Detective results had a bad probability role for that investigation, when they otherwise would have shown him as criminal/guilty. (3) Sigurd was a Don.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Apologies for the deception, but it was deemed to be necessary to protect the true source of the information on Sigurd. We knew he was pro-mafia and we knew he was powerful. Fingering him as a Don seemed a reasonable course to take under the circumstances. Okay, so it was known that there was no FBI result on Sigurd.

I have a second question: was it known that Sigurd wasn't a don?


Edit: There is something fishy going on somewhere, and I still haven't figured out what. ~:mecry:

[TinCow]

I have a second question: was it known that Sigurd wasn't a don?

I already answered that.


There was other evidence that we received that pointed to Sigurd's guilt. We were not 100% sure of his role, but given the totality of the evidence, a Don seemed likely.

[Makanyane]

Yes, the FBI evidence on Sigurd was a lie.

Are you going to tell us which other 'detective' results are actually a lie while you're at it? Or will you and JimBob only tell the town that after we've followed you up the garden path?

[Haudegen]

Louis, I agree with most of your points. You´re doing a good job, before and after your demise :bow:


This shadow was a Dutchman, is not in Seamus write-up yet, and he lived long enough to order last night's attack on TinCow. Andres' partner Dutch_Guy perhaps?


But I suspect Moros was the shadow. He made a funny comment yesterday:


Grtz,
the man who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men.

And there was something in the write-up that strongly suggests a special role:


Moros too registered as a Wiseguy with our sources, but there was something fishy there as well. We found a train/boat ticket to Havana hidden in the tank of his toilet as well as some kind of “brag” book featuring pictures of dead individuals with code words scrawled on the pictures – “Fauchard, Glaive….We’re just not sure what to make of it. I have a sneaking suspicion, however, that we’re better off without him

What are the bolded parts above based on? I don´t remember Sigurd or anyone else mentioning this.

Edit: Ok, Moros isn´t exactly Dutch, but he is a Fleming, right?

[Caius]

Are you going to tell us which other 'detective' results are actually a lie while you're at it? Or will you and JimBob only tell the town that after we've followed you up the garden path?
I think he is going to the BlackSmith to forge the results.

[TinCow]

Are you going to tell us which other 'detective' results are actually a lie while you're at it? Or will you and JimBob only tell the town that after we've followed you up the garden path?

If you're going to continue pretending that you're a townie, I suggest you come with an explanation for being found guilty on Night 3. Oh, wait... I suppose all detective results supplied by JimBob are questionable now, despite his proven pro-town affinities! Ah, brilliant move, mafioso! :idea2:

Good thing I persuaded the Stracchi not to work with you after JimBob fingered you. It would have made them look totally incompetent to let a mafia mole in after letting in two townies.

[Louis VI the Fat]

But I suspect Moros was the shadow. He made a funny comment yesterday:


Grtz,
the man who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men.
And there was something in the write-up that strongly suggests a special role:


Moros too registered as a Wiseguy with our sources, but there was something fishy there as well. We found a train/boat ticket to Havana hidden in the tank of his toilet as well as some kind of “brag” book featuring pictures of dead individuals with code words scrawled on the pictures – “Fauchard, Glaive….We’re just not sure what to make of it. I have a sneaking suspicion, however, that we’re better off without him

What are the bolded parts above based on? I don´t remember Sigurd or anyone else mentioning this.

Edit: Ok, Moros isn´t exactly Dutch, but he is a Fleming, right?I would comment on it further if it weren't for the pesky detail of me being dead. I must use what is known or written in the thread already. ~:mecry:

Sorry, could've shared this with you all:

Moros is Flemish.

Fauchard - some sort of 'blade'
Glaive - sword

~;)

Gah! Edit again: There is something fishy going on somewhere, and I still haven't figured out what. ~:mecry:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Night Phase is concluded. Writeup to follow. Next Day vote and selection starts with that posting.

[Pannonian]

But I suspect Moros was the shadow. He made a funny comment yesterday:

And there was something in the write-up that strongly suggests a special role:
Sasaki said that Moros was the Wolf, or whatever that role is called in this game. Other than Seamus, Sasaki would be best placed to recognise the signs, having been the Wolf in Capo 1.

[Haudegen]

Sasaki said that Moros was the Wolf, or whatever that role is called in this game. Other than Seamus, Sasaki would be best placed to recognise the signs, having been the Wolf in Capo 1.

Hmm, didn´t Sigurd say that the shadow was the Capo-II equivalent of the wolf?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Seems we are getting rid of quite a lot of mafia.

I'm not really in any position to blame tincow and jimbob too much since I omitted the fact that my source was a made when I first posted the results. But I was pretty careful to not say it was a detective. Avoid outright lies guys.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Sigurd is not a don. He was a mafia hitman. Mafioso Andres confirmed this at the beginning of the lynch. Sigurd later said that 'several mafiosi' knew of his role. And so did the Shadow. o, did the mafia try to get rid of Sigurd?

Here's what we know about Sigurd: he only killed people who had performed kills for the mafia. He has not killed anybody else, no innocent townsfolk. So the death of Sigurd was not necessarily a pro-town act.

There is no FBI evidence on Sigurd, this was a blatant lie. It was probably known that Sigurd wasn't a don either. The question is, whether it was a well-intended lie to ease Sigurd’s lynching or something far worse.


Speculation / random thoughts:

From what I gather, all the families could ask one, and only one, favour of this hitman. This favour consited of a kill. So, after a family had used this hitman, they would have a clear incentive to get rid of him, lest another family use their favour against them. This family also has a clear incentive in finding out which player is the Hitman. The Hitman also gets information in return for his kill, information, which can incriminate mafiosi.

The families did not initially know that Sigurd was the hitman. They contacted him through Seamus. The don uses a codeword from his role PM, sends this word to Seamus, and asks for 'the favour'. Seamus then sends this order, anonymously, to Sigurd. Who then performs the kill. In return, the mafia family must provide the hitman (Sigurd) with information. Just exactly how The Shadow works as a middleman in this I don't know.



So, was there a deliberate ploy to get rid of Sigurd? Why was that evident nonsense made up about there being 'FBI evidence' on Sigurd? And why was it also - presumably - lied that he was a don?

A thought: Sigurd shows up as innocent. Yet he is not a don. Now, what are the odds of a non-don, innocent person being heavily involved with the mafia after all?
This was no lucky shot. There is no such thing as an innocent person, through an amazing streak of luck, turning up to be not a don but to yet have a role closely connected to the mafia. Was it deliberate? Did people found out about Sigurd's role, did they wish for the death of the Hitman? Was this the reason why a bandwagon was started on Sigurd?

More: Simply following orders to kill people is not a complete role. There must've been more to Sigurd’s Hitman's role than that. Did he get fed information from the families in return for the favour? Are these the mutual favours the Stracchi's (Omanes) spoke of? They said that they could ask Don corleone for a kill. I return, they had to supply DC with made investigation results. Is this, why Sigurd was mistaken for Don Corleone twice - both the Stracchi's and the 'FBI detective' / JB / TC link wrongly thought that Sigurd was Don Corleone?
(Incidentally, this was also why I though the balloon mafia were the Corleones. This may not be correct)

(Is there even a Don Corleone family? Are other families fooled into thinking that their favour is executed by a family? Does this Corleone family basically consist of Sigurd the hitman? Maybe, even without him being aware of it? There is, after all, a family ‘missing’? Or am I pushing it too far now?)

Both Andres and Sigurd clearly stated that Sigurd knew a lot about mafia. Sigurd clearly stated that he would've shared this information with the town if there would've been a confession about the 'FBI result' lie. Yet, none of the people involved in the lie admitted to it. Thereby preventing Sigurd from sharing his info. :whip:

Anyway, what we need to find out, is if the FBI detective really is an FBI detective. If he isn’t, then he is clearly a don. If he is FBI, then there may yet be a good explanation for his actions.



More questions: How did Andres knew that Sigurd was the Hitman?

Who is the Shadow? This ‘dead Dutchman’ according to Sigurd? He must’ve been alive long enough to order the hit on TinCow (N7), or so I thought. Was it Dutch_Guy? Or was it Moros (died on n4)? If it was Dutch, is this why Andres knew about the Hitman, through his Stracchi buddy? Was the death of Dutch/ Moros the reason Sigurd needed to be disposed of? Is there a line Dutch-TC-JB-‘FBI Detective’?

Who is the remaining Norwegian player Sigurd spoke of?


Yes I do you a favour and one day I may ask for one in return. A little portection now and then a kill later. Doesn't look good.Are these two confirmed mafiosi now openly exchanging their due 'favours' in the thread, now that both the Shadow and the Hitman are dead?

There is something fishy going on somewhere, and I still haven't figured out what. ~:mecry:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I think leet eriksson is from yemen or something.

[Louis VI the Fat]

oops..I suddenly realise that maybe I am crossing into a private, real life sphere. I shall let this subject rest. Players are of course free to discuss their origin and place of residence at their discretion.

[Caius]

Fauchard - some sort of 'blade'
Twlight'blade'?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

This is main thread post #2518


Today's Program Will Be Interrupted By Acts Of Blood Vengeance

“…So here we are, Monsieur Derida.
Tell me what's so despicable
about a little enlightenment?
Because our little vendetta
has been cancelled due to bad weather.
Go ahead, please shed your wisdom.
You have no time to loose.
Oh, it's a long way home from here to downtown,
especially if it's uphill on both ways.
And I'll tell you about the Differance
If we just could meet again….”
-- “Awesome Deryck” Username at Tabcrawler.com



Summary, Night Eight:


Tran was as paranoid as the rest of the Committee, so when the fight broke out in front of him on the sidewalk in front of the restaurant at which he had planned to have a bite to eat, he quickly crossed the street.

<<Okay, let’s try Greek instead of Italian…>>

He was halfway across the street when he saw the car coming for him. Tran leapt sideways just before impact, and the car bounced off one of the nearby, parked cars and spun into the next intersection. Tran followed, gun out, ready to identify his attacker – or seek vengeance for himself. The battered car wasn’t out of commission yet, so the lone driver was able to get away from the scene.

Tran returned the gun to his holster, went back to the far side of the street, and warily resumed his walk towards dinner. After a few minutes, he finally began to relax – though he made a point to wait for ZERO traffic before crossing the next few intersections.

He had actually relaxed again by the time he neared “Athenos.” His musings about Spanikopita and Baklava were cut short as he reached the block where his restaurant was by the sudden arrival of a tall man wearing a pink ballerina outfit and full facemask pirouetting in front of him on the sidewalk. Tran went for his gun (wouldn’t you?). However, for one critical moment his attention was fixed on the “ballerina,” and that moment was all it took. Two pairs of strong arms grabbed his from behind, each of the men behind him hooking a leg to take it out of play – Tran was held tight!

“”Let go of me you scum-bags! Police! Anyone…” yelled Tran.

But this was Fatlington, and the formerly crowded street was rapidly emptying. The “ballerina” calmly reached down and removed his slippers. He quickly unraveled a thin wire cord from one slipper, attaching it to the other. He looped the garotte over Tran’s struggling head and pulled it tight just under his Adam’s apple. Tran kicked and struggled, gasping and strangling, but was unable to free himself. As consciousness started to fade, the “ballerina” spoke.

“Go to Hell, Stracci!”

Tran was left on the sidewalk. No witnesses ever came forward.


Sarathos had finished dinner and was having a brandy when he heard the commotion at the back of the restaurant – he just loved the salads here at “Athenos” – so he quickly downed his brandy and left by the front exit. He had a standing arrangement with the proprietor, so he knew he didn’t have to hang around and find out what trouble was gunning for him from the kitchen.

He’d reached his car and opened the door when the gunmen appeared on the sidewalk 50 feet in front of him. He reached into the holster he’d put in the door and came up with a little firepower of his own. His door took the first two blasts from the shotgun – armor can be a useful after-market option in Fatlington – and his return shots, though not on target, were more than enough to convince the shotgunner that hanging around on the sidewalk to reload and try again was a losing proposition. The gunman fled.

Sarathos quickly sat down to put some distance between himself and the scene.

<<Yaaawn,>> came from the man sitting behind him.

Sarathos spun his head quickly, so the stranger put the silenced double tap into his face instead of the back of his head. Same difference.

<<Hmmm,>> murmered the shooter.

The shotgunner returned to Sarathos’ car, dropped the rolled parchment on the passenger seat and then the two killers walked slowly away. When police found Sarathos an hour later, they read the scroll’s message: “il destino &#232; inesorabile.” It had been neatly printed on it in Gothic script.


Proletariat strolled with confidence along the boardwalk to the new, much more secure, apartment building to which she had just moved. Despite all the attacks, things just seemed to “work out” for her. She’d developed a new fatalism about things, and her fears had largely subsided into a desire to know who was doing this – and for the chance to put a stop to it.

She was guarded in her motions of course – recklessness was not part of her nature (except perhaps in her willingness to try interesting new cuisines) – but she hadn’t counted on an entire span of the boardwalk collapsing and dumping her into the sand.

As Prole’ struggled to get back to her feet, a man in scuba gear complete with regulator – but wearing surgical gloves -- stepped toward her. She scrambled to get her gun up but the stranger was already moving to pull the cork on a small glass via he held…Another figure leapt from the boardwalk above and crashed into the chap in scuba gear knocking everybody – including Proletariat – flat. Prole’ lost her gun in the sand and her consciousness to the boot that had kicked her in the temple.

The two figures struggled for control, each trying to overcome the other. With a sudden surge of energy, the scuba-clad man flung the jumper away against one of the pilings on which the boardwalk rested. He turned towards Proletariat and knelt to retrieve the small glass vial from where it lay, resting on the white sand and reflecting the lights of Fatlington.

<<Crack!>>

The second stranger had found Prole’s gun and put one shot through the center of mass. The suit proved to be little protection against a .380 round and the first stranger collapsed onto the beach, dying. Proletariat’s rescuer staggered upright, went to Prole’ to confirm she was still alive, and then made his way into the night.

The police came in a few minutes. Proletariat was bruised and possibly concussed, but Evil_Maniac from Mars lay dead on the sands where he’d bled out from the wound in his back. The vial he’d dropped contained some kind of nerve agent so secret that the Government never told Fermanagh’s inspectors what they’d found (Sarin). Another vial found in EMM’s drysuit pocket contained sodium hydroxide with a small label reading “Musashi” attached to it. This was never fully explained.


Makanyane had gotten through most of her evening pretty quietly. Dinner had been unremarkable, but the picture – “All the King’s Men” – was simply brilliant. Sleazy politics, political corruption – all the good stuff. She brushed her teeth, pulled off the body armor, put on a Summer nightgown and tucked herself in. She reached over to turn off the light…

“Nice pins, Mak,” said a muffled voice from her bedroom doorway. “Too bad you’re a filthy criminal.”

Makanyane was bolt upright in an instant, but the figure in the doorway only needed to tighten one finger.

<<Crack!>>

The gunshot sounded more like a cannon in the small room – hardly surprising since a .577 Webley carries a heck of a charge and the man behind the gun had up-grained the ammunition he filled for himself. The shot struck Makanyane in the middle of her sternum, punching through it and her heart with little effort on its way to a mushrooming impact with her spine – shattering that and severing her spinal cord. She slammed back into a sitting position against her headboard, eyes wide with shock, the light fading from them even as she stared at her killer.

“Say goodnight, Gracie.”

Fade to black.



Morning Meeting, Day Nine

“…So, anyway, it was a wild night, saints preserve us,” said commissioner Fermanagh, “we’ll know better what to make of it after we’ve investigated a few things. Now, for the latest results…”

“You lynched a Wiseguy – Xdeathfire – and we’ve been able to confirm his involvement in a few killings, though we have no particulars, just word on the street. As to the others, ajaxfetish and Lt. Pinard were townies with no known crime involvement, while Louis VI was a criminal who’d been involved in some of the Stracci murders – no surprise there I guess. FactionHeir was the surprise. “Word” and some of the tidbits we’ve dug up suggest he was a Made Gangster in one of the families. His death is a clear advantage for the town. We’re not through this yet, folks, but we’re having some success – at least with the smaller fish.”

JimBob took over the meeting as Fermanagh finished.

“Okay folks, remember we have to select a Director today, as well as lynch some scum…”


OOC

1. Day Nine is both a Vote and Selection (for 10/11) phase. Deadline for votes/selections will be 1600 EST 26 Feb 08 (2100 GMT).

2. Results of investigations will follow later tonight.

3. Updated List of Players:

Still Alive: (37) Alexander the Pretty Good, Big King Sanctaphrax, Brave Sir Robin, Caeser the III, Caius, Charge, CountArach, Cowhead418, Craterus, Crazed Rabbit, Draco Leman, Elite Ferret, gibsonsg91921, Haudegen, Hiji, Ichigo, Ironside, JimBob, Joe Monks, Jubal_Barca, Kagemusha, KukriKhan, Leet Erikson, LittleGrizzly, Myrrdraal, norwegian nerd, Proletariat, Roadkill, Sasaki Kojiro, scottishranger, shlin28, TinCow, TruePraetorian, Twilightblade, Warluster, Xehh II.

Attacked: (29) Andres (N2, N3), Beefy187 (N1), Brave Sir Robin (N7), Caius (N3), Craterus (N6), Crazed Rabbit (N6), Cowhead418 (N2), Evil_Maniac from Mars (N3), GeneralHankerchief (N2, N3), Glenn (N1, N2), Kagemusha (N6), Proletariat (N4, N4, N5, N6, N7, N8), Sasaki Kojiro (N5, N7), taka (N2), Tran (N5, N7, N8), TinCow (N7), Twilightblade (N4, N5), Xdeathfire (N1)

Murdered: (26) Drisos (N1), Lord Winter (N2), Beefy187 (N3), Glenn (N3), Pannonian (N3), taka (N3), The Stranger (N3), Zorg (N3), GeneralHankerchief (N4), Kommodus (N4), Moros (N4), Xiahou (N4), Chimpyang (N5), Kamikhaan (N5), Motep (N5), Rythmic, (N5), woad&fangs (N5), ajaxfetish (N6), FactionHeir (N6), Lt. Pinard (N6), Louis VI the Fat (N6), Husar (N7), NorthNovas (N7), Evil_Manica from Mars (N8), Makanyane (N8), Sarathos (N8), Tran (N8)

Lynched: (8) pevergreen (D2), Hannibalbarca (D3), Tiberius of the Drake (D3), Omanes Alexandrapolites (D4), Andres (D5), Xdeathfire (D6), Dutch_guy (D7), Sigurd Fafnesbane (D8)

Removed from Play: (8) Fahad I (D4), Killfr3nzy (D4), x-dANGEr (D4), Sapi (N4), Warmaster Horus (N5), Rob_the_Celt (N5), molonthegreat (N5), johnhughthom (D8)

[norwegian nerd]

Select:Jimbob

[Caius]

Select:Caius

I'd like to point out that there are at least 10 members alive that are posting in other games, but not in this.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

hahaha attacking prole finally bit them in the back. The mafia are on their last gasp it seems. Tran, mak, and emfm died and they only managed one kill?

Select JimBob:

Don't know who's up for lynching today.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Oh yes, Vote:KukriKhan

[TinCow]

Two confirmed mafioso dead (Tran and Makanyane) and only two mafia attacks on townies, one of which backfired due to a surgeon and resulted in a third mafioso death (EMFM). Looks to me like we're doing well. Keep up the good work, guys.

Select: JimBob

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Figured that would happen. Am I allowed to explain why I targeted her?

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

third mafioso death (EMFM).

Am I allowed to explain why I did it and what I really was?

[Haudegen]

Am I allowed to explain why I did it and what I really was?

I guess that means ´no´


The dead may post, but not vote/select nor carry out any night actions. Dead players may not reveal their roles publicly or privately until that role has been revealed as per section V and may not reveal their “familiy” or role particulars even after that time. Dead players may not quote from a PM unless that PM has been posted in the public thread by a living player. Dead players may not reveal, recount or allude to their previous night actions (or results thereof in the case of investigations) publicly or privately – even to confirm a previously made public or private reveal. Remember, even if dead you can still score well provided your “side” achieves victory. Your participation must be circumspect, but your continued participation IS encouraged.

[Makanyane]

Two confirmed mafioso dead (Tran and Makanyane)
*cough* according to the dodgy results being fed to JimBob only.

Mentions again things said in thread previously; with my dying breath...

An apparently rather old detective result appeared on me only after I FoS'd Sasaki in this thread. Sasaki has already admitted channelling results from a made....

TinCow has already said that two results issued by JimBob weren't actually detective results (one an error, one a deliberate lie), but very clearly not all the results claimed are coming from genuine pro-town detectives.



That's all folks - it was nice knowing you - good luck to the town, but do try and pay attention! :thumbsup:

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Pity. I'll tell after the game is done. You may well be surprised by my role.

[TinCow]

An apparently rather old detective result appeared on me only after I FoS'd Sasaki in this thread. Sasaki has already admitted channelling results from a made....

I know who supplied the information, and it did not come from Sasaki.


TinCow has already said that two results issued by JimBob weren't actually detective results (one an error, one a deliberate lie), but very clearly not all the results claimed are coming from genuine pro-town detectives.

The error was never claimed to be detective results in the first place. The error was on TruePraetorian, and if you re-read JimBob's post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1838765&postcount=2208) you will note the specific information used to FoS him had nothing to do with detective results. It was based on vigilante group results that turned out to be inaccurate because Seamus made a mistake. Don't exaggerate the Sigurd situation into something larger.

[Caius]

Vote:shlin28

[Dutch_guy]

Good thing I persuaded the Stracchi not to work with you after JimBob fingered you. It would have made them look totally incompetent to let a mafia mole in after letting in two townies.

It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside to learn that your decision to keep Mak out of our little mafia family was based on not making us look too incompetent. I'm guessing you didn't take that into the equation when you betrayed us ? ~;)


:balloon2:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Pity. I'll tell after the game is done. You may well be surprised by my role.

I can't see why mafia would go after prole constantly so it's entirely possible. I'll be curious to hear why.

[Joe Monks]

Select:Jimbob

I don't know who tp vote for now. I would reckon that prole was used as a target to "farm" a surgeon. I don't think that EMFM was mafia because of this.
This is something Prole mentioned.

Joe

[Crazed Rabbit]

select: JimBob

vote: Hiji

Hiji was identified as guilty before and very heavily defended Sigurd, who admitted to being a hitman.

[TinCow]

It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside to learn that your decision to keep Mak out of our little mafia family was based on not making us look too incompetent. I'm guessing you didn't take that into the equation when you betrayed us ? ~;)


:balloon2:

LOL, sorry Dutch_guy. That was meant as a dig at Mak, not you. You were the Stracchi that trusted me the least, so you certainly do not deserve criticism.

Vote: Hiji

As noted previously, confirmed guilty on N4. I'd prefer to whittle down the list of known mafia before we start looking at more questionable targets.

[Moros]

Why did you pm me Sasaki? Did you really believe I was the wolf? ~;p

Gotcha.

If I only could vote...

EDIT: ****** smiley didn't work

[Xehh II]

Select: JimBob
Vote: Abstain

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I didn't pm you moros. I don't believe I've said anything about you besides putting your name on my scum list day 1 or 2.

[Husar]

Eh, it's possible that EMFM was another Hitman so he didn't really have a choice to attack someone else if he received the same orders every night. Another idea would be a psycho who can only attack a new target once the current one is dead, meaning he cannot switch targets because he's some weirdo who wants to get things done before moving on. ~D

But this kinda proves the surgeon story I told some time ago, hehe.

[TruePraetorian]

Select: JimBob
Vote: Abstain


Don't know who to vote for right now, it may change.

By the way, is there a confirmed count on Mafia/pro-mafia characters dead? pro-mafia as in "the hitman", and even Sigurd isnt confirmed yet, so just confirmed dead.

[KukriKhan]

JimBob's list from pg 74, post #2208 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1838765&postcount=2208):


Our major results thus far.

Sigurd Fafnesbane - Don Corleone - Investigated twice by an FBI detective
Makayane - Tatagalia, Rank Unknown - Investigated and found guilty on Night 3
Hiji - Rank and Family Unknown - Investigated and found guilty on Night 4
Dutch_guy - Stracchi Luca
TruePraetorian - Rank and Family unknown - Sabotaged vigilante hit on Tran on Night 5, attempted sabotage of vigilante hit on Tran on Night 6.
Charge - Mafia Affiliation Unknown - Investigated and found criminal on Night 3
Twilightblade - Rank and Family Unknown - Investigated and found criminal on Night 4
Ichigo - Rank and Family Unknown - Investigated and found unclear on Night 2. Investigated and found guilty on Night 5.
Tran - Wiseguy or Made, Stracchi


select: Jim Bob
vote: Hiji

Q: Is Ichigo still playing? He posted "I quit.", yet his name still appears as among the living characters in play (and a killer on n5, according to JimBob).

[CountArach]

Select: JimBob

Can someone update the list of still alive confirmed scum?

EDIT: Thank you KK :bow:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I guess it's Hiji

Unvote:KukriKhan,Vote:Hiji

[Twilightblade]

Vote: Abstain

Again I have no prefrence

[Lt. Pinard]

come on Twilightblade you must be something special. Because there is no point in being in the game if you keep abstaining.

So your either mafia
or
special town but if your a special you would have to have some more knowledge then most and would be able to vote against someone.

soo
Mafia :inquisitive:

[norwegian nerd]

Vote:Abstain
for now anyway

[woad&fangs]

Is there any investigation results on Twighliteblade?

Also, isn't xdeathfire dead? His name keeps appearing in the living players list.

[KukriKhan]

Is there any investigation results on Twighliteblade?

From JimBob's list:


Twilightblade - Rank and Family Unknown - Investigated and found criminal on Night 4


Xdeath = attempted (failed) hit Night 1 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1825335&postcount=4).

Maybe you remember x-danger being WoGged on Day 4.

-edit-
wait Xdeath lynched day 6. You're right.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

xdeath was lynched instead of dutch guy.

[KukriKhan]

xdeath was lynched instead of dutch guy.

correct :bow:

Thank goodness for Andres' 'story thread' to skip thru results. Still a long read.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Eh, it's possible that EMFM was another Hitman so he didn't really have a choice to attack someone else if he received the same orders every night. ~DThat would be so cool! A special role that allows you to order a player to keep attacking the same person over and over. Turn this into 'Groundhog Day mafia' for him. :beam:

Ah, well, of all the innocents, Prole is now the most of the hook for don. Luca is luca, surgeon is surgeon.

I do feel a bit sorry for EMFM. There was probably some red text or role requirement. For the last few days, the mafia had given up on attacking Prole. They were all single attacker attempts - which indicates special role.
EMFM must be dying to tell us something right now. Poor lad, he definately drew the short stick in this game. :embarassed:

*****

Only one family managed to kill last night. The firepower is all but gone for most families. But who are the dons?

*****

The list:
TruePraetorian was cleared, I believe? Don't remember.
Charge and Twilightblade could be anything. On N3 and N4 there were lots of mafia kills, neither showed up guilty, so odds are that they are simply wiseguys.
Hiji, on the other hand, was caught killing on n4... clear choice for a lynch.
Tomorrow will be difficult.

*****


Twlight'blade'?No, just some sort of medieval weapon, a 'blade' on a long pole, don't know what they are called in English. It is an allusion to the 'crown, blade, sword' trio of Glenn, JimBob and WoG.

'I'd like to point out that there are at least 10 members alive that are posting in other games, but not in this.'
Which ones?

*****


Also, isn't xdeathfire dead? His name keeps appearing in the living players list.Yeah, Seamus made a mistake. Xdeathfire died on the night that I survided that attack. I think Seamus confused the two of us and so I ended up on the death players list. :no:

[TruePraetorian]

The list:
TruePraetorian was cleared, I believe? Don't remember.
Charge and Twilightblade could be anything. On N3 and N4 there were lots of mafia kills, neither showed up guilty, so odds are that they are simply wiseguys.
Hiji, on the other hand, was caught killing on n4... clear choice for a lynch.
Tomorrow will be difficult.



Yeah, i was cleared. The evidence JimBob had saying i was mafia came from Seamus screwing up in his night post...but he didn't want to change it because it "already sounded good, but it shouldn't be that much of a problem." TinCow then thought i was mafia, so i had to send him the PM Seamus sent me about making the mistake. TinCow then appologiesed and posted that he had made a mistake.

As for lynching, unvote: abstain
vote: Hiji

we should really get a tally going so we dont lose track...my internet is terrible so ill try.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I don't think TP was cleared as in proven innocent. The charges against him were just shown to be false.

[naut]

Is there any investigation results on Twighliteblade?
There was; but I'm six feet under now.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Kommodus was mafia and he said he thought crazed rabbit had a role. Why didn't he kill him then?

[Cowhead418]

Wow, the mafia's firepower has really gone down in the last few rounds. They really seem to be weak, and they're about to get even weaker.

Vote: Hiji and Select: JimBob

[Tratorix]

Wow, the mafia's firepower has really gone down in the last few rounds. They really seem to be weak, and they're about to get even weaker.

Or they just want us to thin that so we'll get complacent.

Vote: Hiji

Select: Jimbob

[Tran]

Too bad Jimbob didn't online (and still doesn't) and read my PM.

Apparently people still believe the myth that I was a Made / Mafia... :2thumbsup:

[Haudegen]

I have made a list of inactive players. All those mentioned have been inactive in the thread for at least four full day and night phases.

name / # of postings / last activity.

alexander the pretty good - 3 - 02-11-2008
bks - 5 - 02-07-2008
draco leman - 2 - 02-05-2008
leet erickson - 2 - 02-11-2008
gibsonsg - 3 - 02-13-2008

Perhaps some families are crippled because some of their members are inactive? :2thumbsup:

[Myrddraal]

Hmm Haudegen, did you notice if there were any innactives who have been inactive longer than some people who were Wogged?

Not getting Wogged could mean they have a role, and are being active by PM but not in the thread, which could lead us to the mafia.

[Myrddraal]

Vote: Hiji

Select: Jimbob

[Andres]

Why are we lynching Hiji?

a) There is no evidence! We are townies and we think that he is guilty, so we fabricated some fake evidence to convince you. Trust us, we know what we're doing! Remember, last time we did this, a neutral role who had plenty of useful evidence and information about the other mafia families got lynched and is now silenced forever!
b) A Made Gangster investigated him. The results provided by said Made Gangster are trustworthy. The fact that you are not following the lead of a Made Gangster is suspicious. Maybe we'll need to lynch you next round, you dirty mafia scum!
c) Well, we have to lynch somebody :shrug:
d) His name starts with an "H" :no:
e) Everybody is voting Hiji and I'm just going with the flow.

[Myrddraal]

A hitman. A man who's victory conditions are based on how many kills he can performfor the mafia. A man who kills informants and pro-town individuals.

Hmm, hardly a neutral role.

[Andres]

A hitman whose victory conditions most likely include "stay alive", who knew alot of mafiosi and is now dead and thus no longer able to share his information in return for protection at night. A hitman who doesn't ask questions and is able to kill for the town as well.

A neutral role can backstab and decide to play for the other team at any stage of the game. You guys missed a golden opportunity by lynching Sigurd.

And now you are blindly following the lead of those who insisted on lynching a source of information that could have been decisive to obtain a quick town victory.

Just my :2cents:

[Tran]

A bad day, Andres? :beam:

[Drisos]

Don't listen to An-.. ehh?

Never mind.

[Sigurd]

Sasaki said that Moros was the Wolf, or whatever that role is called in this game. Other than Seamus, Sasaki would be best placed to recognise the signs, having been the Wolf in Capo 1.

:wall:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

@ Kukri:

Andres -- though a good chap and my putative boss -- was not the person who came up with the idea for a parallel summaries thread. I don't recall who gave me the idea at/near the time for the start of Capo I (Sasaki? Pan? Me?), but it was done back then before we'd managed to "draft" :devilish: Andres into this little 47-ring circus.



@ Louis:

We use the terms "glaive" and "fauchard" as direct import words. The English only had the "bill" or the "pike" (and most of the English nobility spoke French anyway) so there was never a need to invent a parallel term in English and we've kept the "continental" versions of the names for those weapons.



@ all:

If I've messed up something -- e.g. Xdeath's demise on the list -- bash me off a PM so that I can correct it...PLEASE...There's lots of folks to keep track of and I can and do slip up, but wish to correct such ASAP.

[Haudegen]

Hmm Haudegen, did you notice if there were any innactives who have been inactive longer than some people who were Wogged?

Not getting Wogged could mean they have a role, and are being active by PM but not in the thread, which could lead us to the mafia.

I´m not sure if we can deduct a lot from that, because Seamus isn´t using a strict rule for WOGs. Removing people from play is ultimately in his discretion. He said that himself somewhere. But we should keep an eye on those people. I´d be concerned if they stay inactive and lived on for much longer.




Select: JimBob

although I´d like to hear more from him on the current events. C´mon JimBob, give us an inspiring speech :help:

Oh, and vote: ichigo,
he was found guilty of being on JimBob´s blacklist.

Seriously, lets aim for a double lynch today. I don´t think any of the candidates from the blacklist is a priority target. We have nothing to lose.

[Haudegen]

Tally

Hiji 8 (Sasaki, CR, TinCow, Kukri, TruePraetorian, Cowhead, BSR, Myrd)
shlin 1 (caius)
ichigo 1 (Haudegen)


BTW, Caius, you didn´t state any reason for voting shlin. What´s up?

[LittleGrizzly]

alexander the pretty good - 3 - 02-11-2008
bks - 5 - 02-07-2008
draco leman - 2 - 02-05-2008
leet erickson - 2 - 02-11-2008
gibsonsg - 3 - 02-13-2008

Out of those 2 i have suspicions of crazed rabbit and leet erickson potential scum perhaps ?

im going to
Vote Ichigo
because he was on the 'black list' and i think perhaps we could go for a mutli lynch because they've gone so well for us in the past

Select JimBob

he just seems the obvious choice, im willing to put my trust in jimbob being pro-town, besides no-one apart from me seems to vote for me

[LittleGrizzly]

Tally

Hiji 8 (Sasaki, CR, TinCow, Kukri, TruePraetorian, Cowhead, BSR, Myrd)
shlin 1 (caius)
ichigo 2 (Haudegen) (LittleGrizzly)

[shlin28]

Vote:shlin28

Why me? :dizzy2:

Select Jimbob, will vote later when I got time to read the new posts.

[Caius]

'I'd like to point out that there are at least 10 members alive that are posting in other games, but not in this.'

Yes, like shlin, who posted to congratulate the mafia for their recent victory in other mafia game. But he isnt posting in this game, so might i ask why he is evading this game?

[shlin28]

Yes, like shlin, who posted to congratulate the mafia for their recent victory in other mafia game. But he isnt posting in this game, so might i ask why he is evading this game?

When I posted that, this game is in night phase, not much to comment on then is there?

[Drisos]

When I posted that, this game is in night phase, not much to comment on then is there?

"Not much? THIS... IS... CA-POOOOOOOO!!!"

There's more then enough to comment on!:wall: over 2.500 posts so far, 'nuff said..

[Caius]

Crime works 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.

Soooo, there are a lot of things that can be said.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Why are we lynching Hiji?
blah blah blah

Because you are against it.

CR

[Ferret]

vote:hiji

can't see any other candidates

[Andres]

Because you are against it.

CR

That's mean :bigcry:

[Craterus]

vote: Ichigo May as well try for a multi-lynch and Ichi's a good candidate (better than Hiji IMO)

Select: Craterus

I'm not too taken with the idea of lying directors and I don't like a vote to be unanimous.

[Sigurd]

Hi…

Remember me?
Louis is not too far off in his speculations about the hitman role. Sadly I did not survive the slander and accusing of the so-called pro-townies.

A point I would like you to consider:
If I were a Don in this game I would have gone pro-town, make sure many people noticed and done nothing until the end-game. Then when there were a few players left, I would have made my strike, wiping out enough players to reach majority.
Let this be my pro-town tip for the day.

Personally I am not satisfied from the explanations given by TinCow/JimBob/Crazed Rabbit.
You had reasons to believe I was Don Corleone… Why Don Corleone and not Don Cunnio, Don Barzini (I was Don Barzini at one point) or Don Tataglia?
Why Corleone?
I want answers and I think you owe it to the town. You have been caught in falsely accusing me of being Don Corleone.
I don’t think you should choose JimBob for director until he comes forward and explain all this. If he is away, what good is he then?
I say select Prole or Sasaki for director.
I trust them more than the current organization.

[Leet Eriksson]

Gonna vote Hiji

Also i'm not from yemen, but the UAE ~;p

[TinCow]

Personally I am not satisfied from the explanations given by TinCow/JimBob/Crazed Rabbit.

...

I want answers and I think you owe it to the town.

I regret that you are going to be very disappointed, then. I have explained everything as fully as I want to and I have no intentions of giving out more information than I already have. I most certainly will not do it for "the town" to make mafioso like you and Andres feel more comfortable in your graves. Enjoy your naps.

There are a large number of townies who know first-hand that I am reliable and have worked consistently over the last several days and nights to get information where it needs to be and to coordinate the necessary night actions. At this point, I do not feel the need to give any further public explanations for my actions. Doing so will only help the mafia. I will continue to disclose whatever information I feel is necessary for people outside the town network to know, whenever I feel like they need to know it.

Also, please be assured that I am by no means a pivotal figure in the town defenses. If I am killed, there are others who know just as much as I do and who will take my place. I would actually enjoy a dirt-nap, since my wife has been nagging me lately about how much time I spend PMing for this game. :laugh4:

[Crazed Rabbit]

Slander, Sigurd? You admitted to being a mafia killer.

And I see absolutely no reason anyone should listen to any request of a mafioso, especially one demanding information from the town.


That's mean

But true.

Craterus - how about you explain why you were saved from a murder attempt by a doctor or Luca?

Seems odd a doctor would choose to protect you right out of the blue.

CR

[KukriKhan]

Sigurd does have one excellent point:


If he is away, what good is he then?
I say select Prole or Sasaki for director.

I don't think JimBob will think it's disrespectful of us to choose another Director while he's apparently afk.

Unselect: JimBob
Select: Proletariat

Let's have Seamus do a "Vicious Vixen" director write-up, good pulp-fiction author that he is. :)

[Craterus]

Craterus - how about you explain why you were saved from a murder attempt by a doctor or Luca?

Seems odd a doctor would choose to protect you right out of the blue.

CR

Pretty sure I already posted about that.

Truth is, I don't know who protected me and I certainly didn't ask for it but I'd like to thank the person responsible.

I also don't have a reason why I might be chosen for protection, my only thought being that I've been investigated and the information was passed on to a doctor.

EDIT: What's the tally on directors?

[shlin28]

Pretty sure I already posted about that.

Truth is, I don't know who protected me and I certainly didn't ask for it but I'd like to thank the person responsible.

I also don't have a reason why I might be chosen for protection, my only thought being that I've been investigated and the information was passed on to a doctor.

EDIT: What's the tally on directors?

You contradicted yourself in a pm to me...



If you're protecting me, yes. But I'm ok for tonight, thanks. :nice:

(I was asking if he wants to be in a protection ngroup)

[Craterus]

Excuse me?

I meant that I'm ok for night actions...

EDIT: Reviewing the PM, I understand what you meant. At the time, I thought you were recruiting me for a protection group.

[Sigurd]

Slander, Sigurd? You admitted to being a mafia killer.
CR

Yes.. I was killing mafia. And would continued doing so.
I guess the other mafia got a little afraid that they were next on the list.
Maybe players should put some votes on Don CR or fake FBI agent CR... whichever. And trow a few on Don TinCow as well. A double lynch FTW!! :laugh4:

[Craterus]

Sigurd, not sure if you already answered this but: on the nights you did not have a target, could you pick your own? Or were you only able to kill when and who the mafia requested?

[Sigurd]

Sigurd, not sure if you already answered this but: on the nights you did not have a target, could you pick your own? Or were you only able to kill when and who the mafia requested?
I did nothing the first nights.. Just waiting for contracts.
I guess the mafia families had to reach a certain level before they could use me.
I think I could have worked on my own the nights I had no contract. But why kill blindly?
I rather liked the innocence status.

[Myrddraal]

Yes.. I was killing mafia. And would continued doing so.

Pro-Town mafia traitors you mean.

"Dead Rat"

Your role was pro-mafia. You had an opportunity to proove you were pro-town when you were asked to disclose information publicly. You refused, because you were hurt that someone had called you don?

It doesn't stand up.

[shlin28]

Excuse me?

I meant that I'm ok for night actions...

EDIT: Reviewing the PM, I understand what you meant. At the time, I thought you were recruiting me for a protection group.

:embarassed: I misinterepreted the pm then :embarassed:

Vote Caius, revenge vote before the voting ends :laugh4:

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

I still think that Proletariat is guilty, or at least not completely pro-town. While I wouldn't lynch her yet over others that there is more evidence towards, I'm not sure anymore about her loyalties. Not a good choice for a lynch, but also not a good choice for director.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Day Nine is finished. Write up shortly.

[Sigurd]

Pro-Town mafia traitors you mean.


Little do you know...
The Shadow who were [red section] solicited contracts from [red section], [red section] and [red section].
That said not all mafia Dons were able to use me.. hence my comment about mafia acting pro-town to hide from the scrutiny of the town. There are two Dons in your midst hiding as pro town. The three others are either hiding as lurkers or semi lurkers. You got one.. but another took his place.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

This is main thread post #2598


“No one is innocent we all commit crimes, if you’re not guilty in their eyes, you’re guilty in mine. There are only two sides and a line that divides, if you stand in the middle you’re not on my side….Won’t shed a tear, I know I am right, and if I am caught, I’ll pay the price….If you don’t make a choice it could mean your life for if you’re not on my side you’re a target in my eyes.”
-- Vegan Reich



Sunset, Day Nine


“Thank you again for selecting me as your Director. I live for the opportunity to destroy the mafia utterly. This method is a harsh regimen for justice, but we face an ancient and cunning group of thieves and murderers. Harsh justice is the only thing they will understand.”

JimBob paused, gazing at each committee member in turn.

“Hiji!”

Hiji was suddenly stiff and upright in his chair. He was quickly flanked by two of Fermanagh’s goons.

“The Committee has adjudged you guilty and thereby sentenced you to die. Do you have anything to say.”

Hiji stood, silent tears coursing down his cheeks. He spoke.

“None of us, save the Lord, is truly innocent. If this is the way I must atone for my sins, then I go willingly to the Mercy Seat. You too are sinners – all of you! I warn you to seek your own atonement!”

The committee looked at him, some incredulous, others faintly nodding. JimBob merely indicated that the officers should take him away. Hiji was bound and taken to the loading docks to be hanged where the other hangings had occurred. This time the rope was much shorter and the drop did not snap his neck. It took Hiji several minutes to strangle. Whatever visions he saw as he shuffled off this mortal coil he did not share.

“Another one executed. Guard yourselves well this night and prepare to remove more of our enemy from this town. Farewell.”

The Committee filed out of the building and off into the gathering dark of another Fatlington night.



OOC

1. Night PMs are due by 1400 EST on 27 Feb 08 (1900 GMT). I have an evening commitment with the family and want this processed for you all prior to that time.

2. Vote and Selection Tallies:


Vote To Lynch:

Hiji = 10 (BSR, Cow, CR, Ferret, Kukri, Leet, Eyeless, Sasaki, Tin, True)

Ichigo = 3 (Craterus, Haud, Grizz)

Abstain = 2 (‘blade, Xehh)

Shlin28 = 1 (Caius)


Select Director (10 & 11)

JimBob = 13 (BSR, Cow, CR, Haud, Joe, Grizz, Myrd, nerd, Sasaki, shlin, Tin, True, Xehh)

Caius = 1 (Caius)

Craterus = 1 (Craterus)

Proletariat = 1(Kukri)

[Proletariat]

Andres saying something doesn't make it wrong, Crazed Rabbit. Wasn't it you that said earlier 'lynch all liars'? You and TinCow need to start answering some of these questions. The 'Sigurd's mafia, so no need to answer. I'm protown so I don't explain things' is weak.

Andres could give us all of the remaining Don's names and they'd be perfectly safe with your tactic. You really think Andres isn't bright enough to take advantage of this?

For the townies not focusing or caring to read much of the main thread, it'd be a smart move to go back and read Louis' recent posts. There's alot of unanswered questions getting buried and it really is starting to look like the town is being taken for a major ride.

[Drisos]

Andres could give us all of the remaining Don's names and they'd be perfectly safe with your tactic. You really think Andres isn't bright enough to take advantage of this?

andres is pro-mafia. you call it bright to sell out all dons?

[Proletariat]

Taking a right when Andres says to take a left is just as stupid as taking orders from him.

[PershsNhpios]

Please... For God Sake! Please!

SOMEONE draw a line around the little group of Proletariat, Sigurd Fafnesbane and Sasaki Kojiro.

The three of them are, without warrant, protecting each other as though they all share a common courtesy behind the scenes.

JIMBOB! Why aren't you addressing this man?
You are a Holy Knight! There are many things that point to Proletariat!
Who here on the forum is most fitting of ballet slippers??!

Please, I cannot say very much, for I am dead.
But please, tie a lasso around these names.
Proletariat, Sigurd Fafnesbane, Sasaki Kojiro










On another note.
Moros was discovered with Gothic script.
Remember, Jimbob, how Moros told us of two opposite secret roles I have mentioned previously.
One was, "Light", and the other, "Shadow".

Well, I think these two roles are possible. But Moros certainly wasn't the Light.

My guess is that Seamus Fermanagh either plays Medieval: Total War, or had an advisor who adores it.
And therefore he added not only Norman Knights, but Gothic Knights to play arch enemies in the game.

That makes far greater sense.

The question then is - was there a trio of Gothic Knights also?

[Louis VI the Fat]

Hate to break the news to you Glenno, but the ballet slippers were Pannonian's idea, the Stracchi don. I shall now order my made, Omanes, to kill you tonight while wearing them. :book:


Please, I cannot say very much, for I am dead.Please don't - I dread to think what havoc it could wreak on my Stracchi family. :sweatdrop:

If you promise to not reveal, I swear I'll return the favour by doing whatever I can to have Sigurd lynched tomorrow.

[TinCow]

You and TinCow need to start answering some of these questions. The 'Sigurd's mafia, so no need to answer. I'm protown so I don't explain things' is weak.

I have answered many questions in great detail recently. You can find them here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1841630&postcount=2480), here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1842817&postcount=2502), and here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1843019&postcount=2529). Why do I bother writing this stuff if no one is going to read it? About the only thing I have not said is the exact information that made us suspect Sigurd. Given the fact that he has admitted himself that he was a powerful mafia ally, our evidence was clearly at least partially correct, even if our guess on his role was wrong. Do I really deserve this much suspicion over that?

Also, it is utterly absurd to say that I am a Don. Here are ALL of my night actions, from the beginning:

N1: Inconclusive 'pevergreen' protection group on Pannonian (I think, PMs long deleted, don't remember the participants. Sasaki can confirm this one)
N2: Failed hit on taka with GH, Northnovas, and gibson. Failed only due to taka's luck.
N3: Failed protection of Glenn with Louis, Husar, and Leet Eriksson. Matter of record.
N4: Inconclusive protection group on someone I can't remember. PMs deleted and the backup download is on my work computer (don't tell my boss). I will post the N4 action tomorrow when I get to work, if it's really that crucial.
N5: Failed hit on Tran. Failed because one member did not get their order PM in on time.
N6: Successful hit on Factionheir.
N7: Successful hit on Northnovas.
N8: Successful hit on Tran.

If you read the write-ups for N2, N6, N7, and N8, there is no way I could have done those if I was a Don. Therefore, if I am a Don, I must be lying about participating in those hits. It should therefore be easy for someone to come forward and say that I wasn't there, because the participants would know that I wasn't with them. Please, explain to me again how I can be a Don.

[John86]

Muhahaha the game shall take a nice twist once my info is released. :2cents:

[ajaxfetish]

Wow, I'm getting behind. Anyhow, here's my summary for N8, even though we've already moved past the following day.

Mafia status as of N8:

--Stracci. Don: Omanes A. (dead), Luca: Dutch Guy (dead), Made: Andres (dead), NorthNovas (dead), Former associated wise guy: LouisVI (dead), associated wise guys or mades: Tran (dead), Gibson. Calling Card: Pink ballet slippers. Victims: Drisos (detective, N1), Pannonian (wise guy, N3), Motep (wise guy, N5), Louis VI (presumed wise guy, N6), attempted hits on GH (N2, N3), Proletariat (N4), Craterus (N6), Sasaki (N7), Brave Sir Robin (N7).

--Corleone. Don: Unknown, Luca: Unknown, Made: Tiberius of the Drake (dead). Have called for a mafia truce through Tiberius and TosaInu.

--Tataglia. Family member: Makanyane (according to JimBob's contacts). Have responded to the Corleones' call for truce, according to TosaInu's second relayed communication.

--Barzini. (Rose group according to Louis), associated wise guy: Ichigo (according to Louis)

--Cunnio.

Religious Weather Balloon group. Don: Unknown, Luca: Unknown, Made: Unknown. Calling Card: Weather balloons and religious paraphernalia. Victims: Glenn (crusader?, N3), Beefy (townie, N3), The Stranger (townie, N3), GH (wise guy, N4), attempted hits on Glenn (N2) and Proletariat (N4, N5, N6?). I had this group pegged as the Corleones based on a statement by Louis. This last day he expressed doubt about his own statement, so I've separated the two. This family made an explosive entrance on night 3, but seems to have been a one-night wonder.

Rose group (Barzinis according to Louis). Don: Unknown, Luca: Unknown, Made: Unknown, associated wise guys if any: unknown. Calling Card: Rose and a preference for explosives. Victims: Zorg (wise guy, N3), Moros (N4, wise guy or wolf-type character), Chimpyang (townie, N5, black rose), Lt. Pinard (townie, N6), attempted hit on CR (N6, white rose), possible attempted hit on Proletariat (N4). This family started out consistent, but seems to have since fizzled.

Italian Destiny group. Don: Unknown, Luca: Unknown, Made: Unknown, associated wise guys if any: unknown. Calling Card: an Italian phrase (destiny is inexorable). Victims: Kamikhaan (townie, N5), ajaxfetish (townie, N6), Husar (N7), Sarathos (N8). While the other families have been seemingly inert of late, this family, though late to start in on the killings, has been murdering consistently since night 5.

Omanes suspected Sigurd to be the don of the Barzinis, JimBob asserted he was the don of the Corleones. Sigurd claimed before his death to be the 'king of hearts' hitman, and others have agreed this is probably correct.

For anyone who loves symmetry, the Straccis, Weather Balloon group, Rose group, and Italian Destiny group have each had 4 successful kills so far, so 4x4. The 5th family (Cunnios have been referenced the least thus far) probably never got off the ground.

----------------------------------------------------

Musings:

xdeathfire and twilightblade have both fled to the police immediately after being attacked (xdeath on N1, twilight on N5). They may have a similar role, and this action would seem to suggest it's a pro-town one.

Lone killers with calling cards or consistent modi operandi
--.577 Webley. A rogue killer of unknown motivation. A single individual using the same weapon shot Kommodus (luca, N4), Woad&Fangs (wise guy, N5), and Makanyane (suspected mafia, (N8). Based on the type of victims, this killer may be protown.
--King of Hearts. Another lone killer (probably Sigurd) is operating, using knives and leaving King of Hearts playing cards. He participated in killing Woad & Fangs (wise guy, N5) and Louis VI (presumed wise guy, N6), and attempted a kill on TinCow (N7).

Prole's attack was certainly very interesting. It seems EMFM was the tenacious killer who kept making attempts on her life even after assorted mafia families gave up. He is bursting to share his reasons but prevented by the rules until game's end. Prole's defender is confirmed as a surgeon instead of a luca due to his potential to take down an attacker.

--Society for Creative Anachronism. Successful hits on FactionHeir (made, N6), Northnovas (N7), Tran (N8), failed hit on Tran (N5) due to a late pm, and another failed one on Tran (N7) for unclear reasons, apparently luck.


-----------------------------------------------------------------

Post-mortem results:

17 pro-town
Townie: Lord Winter, Beefy, taka, the Stranger, FahadI, killfr3nzy, Sapi, Xiahou, Rhythmic, molonthegreat, Chimpyang, Kamikhaan, ajaxfetish, Lt. Pinard
Detective: Drisos
Crusader?: Glenn, Rob the Celt

12 neutral
Wise Guy: Pevergreen, Hannibal, Pannonian, Zorg, GH, x-Danger, Moros (though Moros may be an unaffiliated mafia member), Motep, WarmasterHorus, Woad&Fangs, Xdeathfire, LouisVI (though Seamus write-up was not specific on his starting role)

5 mafia
Made: Tiberius (Corleone), Andres (Stracci), FactionHeir (family unknown)
Luca: Kommodus (family unknown)
Don: Omanes (Stracchi)

Ajax

[Myrddraal]

Hmmm.

Hiji's write up suggests a role. Something religious...

Frankly Jimbob, I wonder about your information. It seems to me that the latest two mafia, have had roles, but have not been mafia...

Having said that, they may be pro-mafia roles. I just wish you'd share a little more info. You don't have to say "he's mafia" to get someone lynched. Just say what role you think they have, and give your reasons (you don't have to give away sources). More discussion = good thing.

[Sigurd]

[...] Do I really deserve this much suspicion over that?

Also, it is utterly absurd to say that I am a Don. Here are ALL of my night actions, from the beginning:

[comment by Sigurd]: 5 Attempted hits, 3 successful. He lives and I am dead.

If you read the write-ups for N2, N6, N7, and N8, there is no way I could have done those if I was a Don. Therefore, if I am a Don, I must be lying about participating in those hits. It should therefore be easy for someone to come forward and say that I wasn't there, because the participants would know that I wasn't with them. Please, explain to me again how I can be a Don.

You make the mistake of assuming a Don can't successfully participate in vigilante groups.

Also... someone must be able to add 2 and 2 together? Ask yourselves, why was TinCow attacked by the Hitman and why did he survive?

[Makanyane]

Sorry about the dead not going quietly into the night but I think you might be missing something on the 'Prole is definitely innocent because she was protected by a surgeon' thingy


Note: Townies participating in a “vigilante” killing who end up operating solo, by happenstance or betrayal, run a risk of being killed (1 chance in 3). Wise Guys or Mafiosi operating solo run a risk of being identified (1 chance in 6).

So EMFM could have just got clobbered for working alone, if he started as a vig killer and got stuck on target.... ?

[Haudegen]

You make the mistake of assuming a Don can't successfully participate in vigilante groups.

On what do you base your assumption? From Seamus&#180;s description it seems that dons can only kill if their families are dead.


A Don normally cannot kill opponents during a “night” phase, and must work through others. Normally, however, they appear as “innocent” if investigated by a detective or made, so they can camouflage themselves well. Even the FBI detective is unlikely to spot them. If the Don has lost all the other members of her/his family, they may perform 1 kill per “night” phase. However, subsequent to any such killing they will be identified as “guilty” if investigated by a detective, and “criminal” if investigated by a made.


Omanes made that claim several days ago, but when I asked him about it, he didn&#180;t give any further explanations.




Also... someone must be able to add 2 and 2 together? Ask yourselves, why was TinCow attacked by the Hitman and why did he survive?

Good question. I see three possibilities:

a) a Don&#180;s "luck factor"
b) some unknown "luck factor", as various townies have survived under unclear circumstances so far (taka on night 2)
c) someone used a role blocking ability against the Hitman

And the "why" question: Hmm, from what I gather, the Hitman was mostly used against people who betrayed the mafia. TC himself stated that he was working undercover in the "new Stracci family". Seems to make sense that he was targeted, doesn&#180;t it?

[Andres]

Given the fact that he has admitted himself that he was a powerful mafia ally, our evidence was clearly at least partially correct, even if our guess on his role was wrong.

So you admit that you were only guessing over Sigurd's role? If Sigurd was the hitman, the town just lynched a valuable source of information and a powerful killer who had the possibility, being the neutral role he is, to switch sides and start killing for the town.


Do I really deserve this much suspicion over that?

Let's see: eliminating somebody who knew the identity of several Dons and was able to backstab them and turn pro-town.

The answer is : Yes, you deserve alot of suspicion.


Also, it is utterly absurd to say that I am a Don. Here are ALL of my night actions, from the beginning:

N1: Inconclusive 'pevergreen' protection group on Pannonian (I think, PMs long deleted, don't remember the participants. Sasaki can confirm this one)
N2: Failed hit on taka with GH, Northnovas, and gibson. Failed only due to taka's luck.
N3: Failed protection of Glenn with Louis, Husar, and Leet Eriksson. Matter of record.
N4: Inconclusive protection group on someone I can't remember. PMs deleted and the backup download is on my work computer (don't tell my boss). I will post the N4 action tomorrow when I get to work, if it's really that crucial.
N5: Failed hit on Tran. Failed because one member did not get their order PM in on time.
N6: Successful hit on Factionheir.
N7: Successful hit on Northnovas.
N8: Successful hit on Tran.
If you read the write-ups for N2, N6, N7, and N8, there is no way I could have done those if I was a Don. Therefore, if I am a Don, I must be lying about participating in those hits. It should therefore be easy for someone to come forward and say that I wasn't there, because the participants would know that I wasn't with them. Please, explain to me again how I can be a Don.


You managed to convince the townies throughout the whole game, pretending to be the inexperienced player. You're a smart guy TinCow and the people who are playing KOTR with you hold you in high regard. I for one am not willing to believe that you do not understand the rules very well.

Your "prove" proves nothing. Absolutely nothing. Any mafia can participate in protection groups. Any mafia can participate in a vig squad. The only thing you have to do to ensure that people will not read the vig hit as a mafia kill, is telling the host that the hit is not a family sanctioned kill, even though a mafioso is participating.

You'll have to do better then that...

[Sigurd]

On what do you base your assumption? From Seamus´s description it seems that dons can only kill if their families are dead.

When TinCow made that claim before, I thought naught of it. Let's say one of my previous clients pointed out that this was not the case.
I am bound by the Hitman/client vow of silence and can not reveal too much.

[Andres]

I am bound by the Hitman/client vow of silence and can not reveal too much.

Not to mention the fact that you are dead...

[Drisos]

Not to mention the fact that you are dead...

:furious3:

De pot verwijt de ketel!

:balloon2:

[Haudegen]

When TinCow made that claim before, I thought naught of it. Let's say one of my previous clients pointed out that this was not the case.
I am bound by the Hitman/client vow of silence and can not reveal too much.

Hmm, hmm, hmm. Well let´s assume you are right, what would that mean for any investigations on the alleged Don? Would he still be shown as innocent after participating in a vig kill?

[Pannonian]

I miss Redleg's executions. They were so much more imaginative, with one victim being keel-hauled and another blown from a gun.

[Andres]

A Don normally cannot kill opponents during a “night” phase, and must work through others. Normally, however, they appear as “innocent” if investigated by a detective or made, so they can camouflage themselves well. Even the FBI detective is unlikely to spot them. If the Don has lost all the other members of her/his family, they may perform 1 kill per “night” phase. However, subsequent to any such killing they will be identified as “guilty” if investigated by a detective, and “criminal” if investigated by a made.

A Don can kill alone if all his family members are dead. If they kill, they will be "guilty". The rules don't tell us what the result will be on a Don who participated in a vig squad. I think we can safely assume that he will turn out to be "guilty" as well.


A townie has no special abilities – at least at the start. Most Townies will appear as “innocent” if investigated by a detective, though 1 in 6-8 will appear “criminal” despite their innocence. If investigated by a Made, most will appear “innocent” though 1-2 in 6 will appear “unclear.” Townies may band together to kill one target per night phase, but must do so in groups of 4. If this strategy is chosen, you will appear “guilty/criminal” in subsequent investigations. Townies who have successfully accomplished 2 murders will all change roles to Wise Guy(Gal). Townies may also band together in groups of 3 to provide protection to one Townie (not in their group), functioning as a Doctor. 2 successful protections (attacked, did not die) allow them to select one of their group as a full Doctor. Each subsequent successful protection will result in another member being promoted.

A townie who kills in a vig squad, will also be "guilty" when investigated.


N6: Successful hit on Factionheir.
N7: Successful hit on Northnovas.
N8: Successful hit on Tran.

2 succesful murders = townie is automatically promoted to Wiseguy, ergo, if TinCows' claim that he started the game as a townie is genuine (is it? :inquisitive:), he should be a Wiseguy now. A guilty one. And all townies who participated in those vig squads with him, should be Wiseguys as well now.

By participating in succesful vig squads as a "townie", TinCow conveniently made all investigation results on him useless.

At best TinCow is a Wiseguy, leader of a significant group of Wiseguys who have been working together for a long while now, on a killing spree, killing people he "believes" to be guilty, at worst he's a Don.

EDIT: It won't be too long before TinCow will be promoted to Made Gangster (well, if he isn't a Don that is). Same goes for all townies who have been working with him the last three or four nights. All of this is based on reading the rules combined with TinCow's claims. CR's argument "it's false because it is said by Andres who is confirmed scum" doesn't make much sense. You guys really need to start paying attention to TinCow, his group of "townies" and Crazed Rabbit.

[Haudegen]

A Don can kill alone if all his family members are dead. If they kill, they will be "guilty". The rules don't tell us what the result will be on a Don who participated in a vig squad. I think we can safely assume that he will turn out to be "guilty" as well.


That´s what I would have guessed too. However I´d be really surprised if some detective would find an "innocent" result on him ...


At best TinCow is a Wiseguy, on a killing spree, killing people he "believes" to be guilty, at worst he's a Don.

Well, killing FactionHeir turned out to be a good start. We´ll see tonight, what Seamus tells us about NorthNovas. But, I´m rather sure that he was mafia too.

It seems to me that TC has been acting for the town. It´s obvious that we can´t rule out the possibility that he is a don (or a made or a luca ...) in disguise. But TC´s actions speak in his favor at the moment, IMHO. We should watch him closely like we should watch almost anyone closely.




Wasn´t there a rumor that Don´s can not effectively participate in protection groups?

[Andres]

Well, killing FactionHeir turned out to be a good start. We´ll see tonight, what Seamus tells us about NorthNovas. But, I´m rather sure that he was mafia too.


Always keep all options open.

Killing mafiosi can mean two things: a) townie taking out mafia; b) mafia pretending to be town and in the process eliminating competition (also note that in the process, TinCow is also creating new scum that he can backstab afterwards, to stick to his role of being the helpful townie taking out scum.)

When the play field is down to less then 20 or 15 players, TinCow's (new?)mafia family will be able to take out the rest of you townspeople.

*** Now, why didn't I think about that strategy before I screwed up by trusting Louis :wall: ***

[TinCow]

So you admit that you were only guessing over Sigurd's role?

I admitted that approximately 2 days ago, it is not a secret or a revelation. Again, apparently no one reads my posts. :wall:


EDIT: It won't be too long before TinCow will be promoted to Made Gangster (well, if he isn't a Don that is). Same goes for all townies who have been working with him the last three or four nights. All of this is based on reading the rules combined with TinCow's claims.

Maybe this will make you feel better:



If I somehow survive long enough to make 3 more kills, do I have to become Made? I want to stay on the town side for the rest of the game and don't want to accidentally wind up mafia just because I participated in one too many vigilante squads.


You may refuse promotion.

[Andres]

Maybe this will make you feel better:



If I somehow survive long enough to make 3 more kills, do I have to become Made? I want to stay on the town side for the rest of the game and don't want to accidentally wind up mafia just because I participated in one too many vigilante squads.


You may refuse promotion.



Such quotations are permitted in Capo - II, provided that no screenshots are used and that none of the restricted information (noted in red on your role PMs) from your role PMs is discussed. Please remember that our creative group might also be fabricating this sort of thing.


You are free to fabricate, connive, or otherwise finesse your way to success.


Feel free to quote from the public portion of my Role PM’s to you or to fabricate as you see fit.

Fabricating fake pm's is encouraged by the game host. So: no, it does not make me feel better.

[Sigurd]

Hmm, hmm, hmm. Well let´s assume you are right, what would that mean for any investigations on the alleged Don? Would he still be shown as innocent after participating in a vig kill?

My bet is on the Don being innocent the days he don't participate in vigilante groups.
Would TinCow let a detective test this?

[Andres]

My bet is on the Don being innocent the days he don't participate in vigilante groups.

The thing is, we don't know it. But since a Don who kills alone will be "guilty" on investigation, he's most likely to be "guilty" when having participated in a townie vig squad.


Would TinCow let a detective test this?

And if the result is "guilty", we'll have to assume he's innocent?

Like I said, due to his participation in several succesfull vig squads, any investigation result on TinCow will be completely and utterly useless.

[Haudegen]

Like I said, due to his participation in several succesfull vig squads, any investigation result on TinCow will be completely and utterly useless.

Not quite. If he turns out to be "innocent" in spite of his various vig kills, I for one would be convinced that he is a don.

[Andres]

Not quite. If he turns out to be "innocent" in spite of his various vig kills, I for one would be convinced that he is a don.

And who is going to provide us the investigation results, eh?

TinCow and CR who are clearly on the same team?

Did Jimbob (the only one who is truly confirmed to be pro-town) see a detective/FBI/pro-town role pm?

Maybe he should post it/them (leaving the name(s) of those claiming those roles out of it off course), at least partially, so that the town is able to judge if those reveals were/are genuine or not.

Or a detective who is still alive can also reveal him/herself and he or she can confirm the role claims (or tell us that they are false).

After all, if TinCow and CR have been telling the truth, they should have quite a few doctors or surgeons by now, able to protect a publicly revealing detective.

Or are you going to keep trusting liars (they even admitted that they have been lying, CR himself even insisted on lynching all liars at the beginning of this game!) who refer to "detective" results?

[Proletariat]

I can't find where Crazed Rabbit said 'lynch all liars' before, so don't take my word for it. Might've been thinking of someone else

[Andres]

I can't find where Crazed Rabbit said 'lynch all liars' before, so don't take my word for it. Might've been thinking of someone else

You disappoint me, Prole :no:

All those people telling lies. I can't take this much longer.

Am I the only honest player left in this game?

:shame:

[GeneralHankerchief]

:laugh4:

[KukriKhan]

All those people telling lies. I can't take this much longer.

Frankly, I worry more about the 20 or so silent types, half of whom probably have mafia roles. All they have to do is lay low 3 or 4 more day-night cycles, then pop up to decimate the remaining town population.

Liars will eventually be "outted".

[Drisos]

Frankly, I worry more about the 20 or so silent types, half of whom probably have mafia roles. All they have to do is lay low 3 or 4 more day-night cycles, then pop up to decimate the remaining town population.


So, what are you waiting for? Use your Made/Luca power to kill them off!:wall:

[Pannonian]

Frankly, I worry more about the 20 or so silent types, half of whom probably have mafia roles. All they have to do is lay low 3 or 4 more day-night cycles, then pop up to decimate the remaining town population.

Liars will eventually be "outted".
Future games may have to disclose which players have sent in action PMs, so that lurkers may be flushed out. Mafia games have always had a problem with inactives, and this is even more important in Capo where one may lurk and yet be active.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Future games may have to disclose which players have sent in action PMs, so that lurkers may be flushed out. Mafia games have always had a problem with inactives, and this is even more important in Capo where one may lurk and yet be active.

Which the host has always deemed an acceptable mode of play for Capo. Not that I particularly enjoy adding to your collective sense of ambiguity and frustration.



Oh, wait -- I guess I DO enjoy that! :evilgrin:

[Haudegen]

Wow. Didn´t know you handled it that way, Seamus.

Now I see the people on the inactive list in a different light.

FoS:
Alexander the pretty good
Big King Sanctaphrax
Draco Leman
Leet Eriksson
gibsonsg

[Craterus]

BKS is a confirmed wiseguy, isn't he? Presumably affiliated by this stage of the game.
I also remember reading somewhere that gibson is a made gangster for one of the families?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Ninght Nine is concluded. Writeup to follow.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

This is main thread post #

“A war's broken out in the funhouse
Targets painted in the mirror hall
Explode into shards of confusion
Embedded with trust behind unproven walls

Dodging the bullets of jokers
I'm hunting for aces in a deck of cards
Streaming the view from the frontline
Yet the frontline may be in our own backyard

I can't turn away from the glaring
In the eyes of such desperate hate
Am I taking control of my future
Or am I just taking the bait?

Chorus:
Enemy of my enemy
I've gone out on a limb to defend
Enemy of my enemy
I may never know if he's a friend

Enemy of my enemy
On his actions and words I depend
Enemy of my enemy
He may turn on me in the end”

-- Jason Didner (2003).



Summary, Night Nine

Ichigo had just stuffed the last half of his recently purchased hotdog into his mouth in one huge bite when the gunmen popped up from their hides across the street. Both gunners were well positioned – each to one side and angled so that Ichigo was in a crossfire and that any move away from the cart would involve crossing 20 feet of open pavement covered by one of the gunmen.

Up popped the first gunman, incongruously dressed in a hooded cape with tall pointed ears on the hood/mask.

“I’m Batman!” He shouted as he fired a short burst from his BAR.

“No! I'm Batman,” shouted the second – and equally costumed – gunman stood to fire a burst from his “Broom-handle” Mauser.

Their first bursts were short and controlled, perhaps 4 rounds apiece – just enough to force Ichigo to duck behind the hot dog cart, while spraying hotdog from his mouth. A stray round knee-capped the hotdog vendor who fell into the street in front of his cart screaming. Ichigo’s mind began moving at rapid fire.

<<Batman? I’m being attacked by Bob Kane? Holy Art as Life!>>

Ichigo felt the hairs on his neck raise when he remembered that the cart was parked directly in front of a narrow dark alley between two buildings…a third perfect hide. He gulped as a second short burst from each gunman announced that he was still very much in the crossfire, and then he looked into the alley, peering into the shadows for yet a third “caped crusader.”

<<Empty?>>

He didn’t ponder this for long, though the way things had been going he wouldn’t have been entirely surprised to find Vicky Vail waiting for him in the alley with a bazooka. Ichigo half slid/half duck-walked into the mouth of the alley – the only avenue not covered by the gunmen. He had no trouble leaving the scene.

Both Batmen looked pointedly at one another when Ichigo’s departure was not met by gunfire, and then both of them quit the scene as well. Whether they used radar to navigate the dark streets of Fatlington was never revealed.

Charge’s apartment looked like some kind of fortress. Iron grilles barred the windows, interior shutters of wood backed by steel could be swung to cover those windows, the door was reinforce with metal bands and locked at 4 points, and all of the exterior walls had been backed by neatly stacked sand-bags. Anything less than an M4 Sherman wasn’t likely to force its way in. He was as safe as a Fatlington committee member could be – unfortunately, that wasn’t a very high benchmark.

The hit team moved with a reasonably quick efficiency. One quickly climbed the utility pole out front and disconnected both the power and the building’s phone cable. Two others broke into the basement to start up a generator they brought with them. Another made a purposefully botched effort at breaching the door while yet another used a silenced rifle to take pot-shots at Charge’s windows.

Charge slammed the shutters on all three windows, slid the armoire in front of the door and chocked its wheels, checked his weapons to be safe, and sat back to laugh at their puny efforts to kill him. After a time, with only a few pings/splinters from the window shutters, he found himself growing listless. This feeling grew until, despite the occasional shots at his windows, he fell fast asleep.

The basement crew kept the generator running for more than an hour. Then they shut off the generator, snaked the exhaust tubing back down the air vent from Charge’s apartment, and removed their equipment and themselves.

Skin flushed in a pleasant pink glow, Charge should have been deader than a brick when Fermanagh’s “you must attend the meeting team” broke down his door to fetch him for the Mid-morning meeting at the Convention Center. Instead they found him unconscious but not seriously harmed on the floor of the empty – but well ventilated – apartment immediately below his. Apparently, unknown to Charge or anyone else, termites had been at the flooring of his apartment and the floor had chosen the brief timeframe after he’d passed out but before he’d expired to collapse, spilling him into the fresher air below. The ventilation had been sufficient to prevent the carbon monoxide seeping down into the second apartment from killing him.

Of course, Fermanagh’s bright lights figured out exactly none of what had happened. Though they noticed a few shots into all the shutters and some crowbar damage at the apartment door, nothing had penetrated Charge’s defenses. They shrugged and took him to the meeting.


Haudegen was on his guard these days, so when the kid who was tossing up his baseball and catching it underneath the streetlight turned and tossed the ball to Haudegen, he suppressed his reflexes and ducked behind one of the parked cars while pulling his weapon.

The kid screamed and ran, but Haudegen ignored him, focusing his attention on the fellow in the trenchcoat just behind the next apartment building stoop. That one was drawing a weapon. Haudegen shifted to his left to put the roof of the car between him and the shooter without having to crouch and slow down his mobility. He’d maneuvered carefully…right where his killers wanted him. Checkmate.

Two long muzzle flashes lanced from the back of a canvas topped delivery truck, the heavy reports of the weapon arriving only a split second after the rounds themselves. Both bullets struck Haudegen squarely, hammering themselves into large mushrooms on the front of his body armor. Unfortunately for Haudegen, he’d been shot from behind. Ma Deuce had spoken, and her word was very, very final.

A single red rose was found on Haudegen’s shattered body.


Proletariat wasn’t out to win friends and influence people. Her walk home tonight would not likely get her elected Miss Congeniality either. People shied from her path or found a reason to go back into the store they’d just exited rather than cross her path. This might have been a result of the tense scowl on her otherwise alluring face, but it was more probably a reaction to the fact that she was walking with her handgun drawn and held in a half-raised position. It wouldn’t do, in Prole’s view, to rely solely “on the kindness of strangers.”

When the attack came, she still hesitated a second before firing. She’d feared a balloon of some sort – walking by a child’s party at some restaurant was getting her nervous for Heaven’s sake – but never really expected that the attack would be from someone wearing a high-collared black coat and wielding a huge two-handed sword.

Proletariat ducked the first swipe of the ashandarei and broke left to widen the distance between them. The swordsman spun on his heel and pulled back for another stroke.

<<Crack! Crack! Crack! Crack! Crack! Crack!>>

Prole’, off balance, fired as rapidly as she could pull the trigger. She hit her target twice but failed to punch through the body armor that he – like just about everyone – was wearing. By firing off balance, she managed to knock herself off her own feet, but this did serve to put her under the next swipe of that deadly blade. Supine, she would be at the mercy of the next blow – but already there were sirens blaring and the footsteps of some of Fatlington’s beat cops announced that there would be no time for that final killing stroke.

The swordsman cursed under his breath and faded into the shadows before the police could apprehend him. If only an accomplice had materialized to divide her fire or to delay the police….


Morning Meeting, Day 10

“…the police are doing everything we can to hold a lid on this madhouse. We’ve had no knew outbreaks, so we don’t have any worries on that score, but I simply don’t have the patrol power to interdict the violence of the mafia. You’ve GOT to bring this to a conclusion.”

Fermanagh paused.

“I also regret having to notify you of the deaths of Alexander the Pretty Good, Big King Sanctaphrax, and Roadkill as they were being driven here this morning. Some idiot tourist ran a light and well….I’m sorry for those of you who were close with any of them.”

“Our investigations following the deaths of committee members have turned up the following. Husar was, at least at the outset of this, an innocent townie. We’ve turned up mixed leads as to his acitivities since the committee formed, but nothing conclusive. Vigilantes apparently did us a favor with NorthNovas, who was a made member of one of the mafia families and no loss to Fatlington. We’ve confirmed the same about Dutch_Guy, who we were able to identify as a Mafia Luca, though we weren’t able to provide independent corroboration as to which family. Keep up the good work!”

JimBob went briefly through the procedures and adjourned the meeting until late afternoon.


OOC

1. Lynch Voting for Day 10 will conclude at 1600 EST, 2-28-8 (2100 GMT).
2. Current List of Players:

Still Alive: (32) Brave Sir Robin, Caeser the III, Caius, Charge, CountArach, Cowhead418, Craterus, Crazed Rabbit, Draco Leman, Elite Ferret, gibsonsg91921, Hiji, Ichigo, Ironside, JimBob, Joe Monks, Jubal_Barca, Kagemusha, KukriKhan, Leet Erikson, LittleGrizzly, Myrrdraal, norwegian nerd, Proletariat, Sasaki Kojiro, scottishranger, shlin28, TinCow, TruePraetorian, Twilightblade, Warluster, Xehh II.

Attacked: (32) Andres (N2, N3), Beefy187 (N1), Brave Sir Robin (N7), Caius (N3), Charge (N9), Craterus (N6), Crazed Rabbit (N6), Cowhead418 (N2), Evil_Maniac from Mars (N3), GeneralHankerchief (N2, N3), Glenn (N1, N2), Ichigo (N9), Kagemusha (N6), Proletariat (N4, N4, N5, N6, N7, N8, N9), Sasaki Kojiro (N5, N7), taka (N2), Tran (N5, N7, N8), TinCow (N7), Twilightblade (N4, N5), Xdeathfire (N1)

Murdered: (27) Drisos (N1), Lord Winter (N2), Beefy187 (N3), Glenn (N3), Pannonian (N3), taka (N3), The Stranger (N3), Zorg (N3), GeneralHankerchief (N4), Kommodus (N4), Moros (N4), Xiahou (N4), Chimpyang (N5), Kamikhaan (N5), Motep (N5), Rythmic, (N5), woad&fangs (N5), ajaxfetish (N6), FactionHeir (N6), Lt. Pinard (N6), Louis VI the Fat (N6), Husar (N7), NorthNovas (N7), Makanyane (N8), Sarathos (N8), Tran (N8), Haudegen (N9)

Lynched: (9) pevergreen (D2), Hannibalbarca (D3), Tiberius of the Drake (D3), Omanes Alexandrapolites (D4), Andres (D5), Xdeathfire (D6), Dutch_guy (D7), Sigurd Fafnesbane (D8), Hiji (D9)

Removed from Play: (11) Fahad I (D4), Killfr3nzy (D4), x-dANGEr (D4), Sapi (N4), Warmaster Horus (N5), Rob_the_Celt (N5), molonthegreat (N5), johnhughthom (D8), Alexander the Pretty Good (N9), Big King Sanctaphrax (N9), Roadkill (N9)

3. That’s 9 Executions and 59 murder attempts so far – what a wonderful town Fatlington is!

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Interesting.

Kill on Ichigo failed because one person went missing.

Kill on charge failed because he got lucky.

Haudegen killed by mafia.

Prole apparently not protected, but only one attacker showed up.


I say we lynch charge. Vote:Charge

[TinCow]

I organized the hit on Ichigo with the following PM:


To: Haudegen ; CountArach ;
CC: Seamus Fermanagh ;

Yet another night for our merry band of wiseguy vigilantes. Since Hiji is now dead, we will keep working down the list of early game guilty/criminal results. Tonight it will be Ichigo, who was found unclear on Night 2 and guilty on Night 5. The deaths on Night 5 were Chimpyang, Kamikhaan, Motep, Rythmic, and woad&fangs. As we all know, Motep was killed by the Stracchi and woad&fangs was killed by Sigurd. That leaves Chimpyang, Kamikhaan, and Rythmic. Chimpyang and Kamikhaan were killed by mafia, as shown by the calling cards left on the bodies. Rythmic was killed by two people, so they must have been Made/Lucas. Therefore, Ichigo must be mafia.

Please submit the following orders:


TinCow, Haudegen, and CountArach will kill Ichigo.

Seamus, please consider this my personal N9 order PM. Also, if you're feeling up for an amusing write-up, I would like to suggest a combination of Batman and Spartacus. The three of us jumping around in tights would be nice, followed by multiple claims of "I'm Batman!" and "No, I'M Batman!" A little levity always makes murder easier.

Haudegen replied with the following:


To Seamus
CC TinCow, CountArach


TinCow, Haudegen, and CountArach will kill Ichigo.

CA replied with the following:


I will work with TinCow and Haudegen to kill Ichigo. The Batman idea that TinCow said seems good to me.
That's forwarded from what I sent to Seamus.

Clearly, one of the three of us did not show up. Since Haudegen was himself targeted for a hit, it seems blatantly obvious that he was not the person at fault. Therefore either CountArach or I are lying about participating in the hit, clearly in collusion with the Rose mafia family. This also suggests that Ichigo is from the Rose mafia family.

I suggest that the townies make up their minds about which of us is guilty and hang one of us immediately. To do otherwise will leave a mafia plant inside the town group.

[Craterus]

vote: gibson

He's been inactive for most of the game but has yet to be killed. This suggests he has an important role, and there was a detective result (is this one questionable too, JimBob/Cow?) that showed him to be mafia.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I suggest that the townies make up their minds about which of us is guilty and hang one of us immediately. To do otherwise will leave a mafia plant inside the town group.

This is bizarre.

[TinCow]

vote: gibson

He's been inactive for most of the game but has yet to be killed. This suggests he has an important role, and there was a detective result (is this one questionable too, JimBob/Cow?) that showed him to be mafia.

Another person who hasn't been paying attention. As I have repeatedly stated, gibson was one of the 'New' Stracchi. He was a wiseguy at the time that Northnovas was killed. He is now the only surviving Stracchi and unable to make any kills by himself. He also happens to be very busy in real life and probably isn't paying any attention to Capo anymore. He needs to be disposed of, but is not a priority IMO.


This is bizarre.

Heh, I am clearly accusing CA of being a mafia mole. My statement was just to head off the inevitable counter-argument that it could have been me who was the mole. That same thing was advanced last time this situation came up (with Louis, Husar, and I). I decided to head it off by acknowledging the argument in advance.

[Haudegen]

Crap, I was starting to like this game :furious3:

Well anyway I´ll post some snippets from the Stracci hideout. Should have read it more thoroughly. I recommend it to anyone, by the way.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=1834038#post1834038



I would prefer it if Dutch_guy protected me, although according to my PM I can survive once without protection. A second time, I won't be so lucky.



My pm says that my partcipation at a townies protection group won't have any influence


According to my PM I can protect or kill like a normal townie, so no problems should occur there.


1. Don´s can do night actions like townies. But it´s still unclear how a vig kill affects detective results on them.

2. That bit about lucky survivals should be kept in mind too.

2. Mades (and probably Lucas too) can´t effectively protect.

[Craterus]

I'm so glad we have people like you (TinCow) to dictate the play. I'll be sure to place my vote on CountArach later...

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Heh, I am clearly accusing CA of being a mafia mole. My statement was just to head off the inevitable counter-argument that it could have been me who was the mole. That same thing was advanced last time this situation came up (with Louis, Husar, and I). I decided to head it off by acknowledging the argument in advance.

Yup, your defence looking prepared makes it look like you knew the kill would fail.

I don't think we need to hang one of you two immediately. We can just lynch charge and give you guys the time to argue it out.



Hi CountArach,

Are you in a protection group tonight?

Sasaki
Yes. Why?

Who was in your group that night?

[TinCow]

Yup, your defence looking prepared makes it look like you knew the kill would fail.

I'm an attorney. It's habit to prepare for the counter-argument before it's even been made.

[Kagemusha]

Tincow. Im wondering how come every time something goes wrong you are appointing fingers to other directions? Also, if you are so visible anti mafia person, how come you havent been attacked even for once? I wonder what the rules say how Vig kill turns out if one member of the party is killed the same night?:inquisitive:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Zitat von Omanes
According to my PM I can protect or kill like a normal townie, so no problems should occur there.
I distinctly remember Omanes saying that don's couldn't participate in protection or kill groups in the thread. So either he was lying (to protect someone?) or louis doctored the transcript.

[Crazed Rabbit]

vote: Craterus

tally:
Charge: 1 (sasaki)
Craterus: 1 (CR)

Craterus, suspected Don, with his vote for Gibson, leads one to believe he's involved with Ichigo and CA.

Exactly as a don in one of the Godfather mafia games did, he's posting early after the night summary trying to start a run on gibson.

A double lynch, though unlikely, is always good for rooting out excess mafiosos. I say we up the votes on Charge and Craterus.



Also, if you are so visible anti mafia person, how come you havent been attacked even for once?

Maybe for the same reason the white gloves of Capo I didn't attack Redleg - to cast doubt on his credibility.

CR

[Husar]

I wonder what the rules say how Vig kill turns out if one member of the party is killed the same night?:inquisitive:
Apparently they work, can't say more or I'd break the rules. :sweatdrop:

[Drisos]

Exactly as a don in one of the Godfather mafia games did, he's posting early after the night summary trying to start a run on gibson.
CR

wouldn't he let a less important member of the family do that? :book:

[TruePraetorian]

Craterus, suspected Don, with his vote for Gibson, leads one to believe he's involved with Ichigo and CA.

CR, i find the funny thing being that you were accused of being mafia earlier in the game..if my memory is correct.

Point being, you are posting early yourself, accusing someone else of being mafia for possibly the same reason you state they are posting early. im not accusing you, but lets try to back up accusations :yes:

As for the Ichigo attack, i dont know why TinCow chose him but it clearly points to someone hiding something. If TinCow is correct, then one of his vig group is working with Ichigo (assuming he is mafia), or was doing more "important" things.

Vote: CA

My vote is liable to change, but as it stands i have some things to do and someone in TinCow's group is guilty.

edit: grammer

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Dons can actually kill in vigilante groups while their family is still alive. They can also protect in these groups, although they have no protection value.

e.g. Don, T1 and T2 protect a player, Don is not counted as being involved so the group techincally only has two players in it.



This is Omanes' claim, I misreported it earlier. Dons can be in vig groups but not in prot groups.


Amusing.

I am sure I will be dead soon, since I doubt I can repeat my magical feat of survival

So how did you survive? I don't know of any "magical" protection, and when you say "doubt" it makes me doubt that your protection is a result of some "luck" you got as part of your red text. Also, luck isn't magical.

[TinCow]

As you well know, every person has at least one red paragraph. I have noticed trends that make me believe my red text is not unique. I believe that beefy187, taka, and Tran had the same text, and possibly others. I think explaining further would violate the rules on red text

[Sasaki Kojiro]

As you well know, every person has at least one red paragraph. I have noticed trends that make me believe my red text is not unique. I believe that beefy187, taka, and Tran had the same text, and possibly others. I think explaining further would violate the rules on red text

Of course I well know it, I addressed this in my original. Beefy said lucky, you said magical. Why?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I was contacted last night by several of the dead Mafiosi who relayed messages from their Dons. Apparently CR infiltrated the Don meetings and by using his pro-account read IP addresses of the different posters. Apparently he found one belonging to BKKB which is the largest ISP in Hordaland. It is the state owned power company and the IP would have been the backbone address. Now… I suspect that CR relayed this information to Jimbob and posed as the FBI agent.
Am I correct?
Yes CR got through the pm checks and got into the meeting hiding as a Don. Apparently he didn’t fail any of the tests showing that he had his hands on a genuine Capo II Don Role pm. He didn’t even stumble on choosing one of the 5 names.

Back to the IP thing. A lot of Norwegians use this ISP and would have the same back bone address. I suspect there are other players from my part of the world in this game?

I'd like to note that this was posted on 02-23-2008, 12:13

Now, looking over my pm's I see this:


Can you look up member IPs, and would it be alright to do so for this game?

CR

This was sent to me on 02-19-2008, 20:37

I replied and said it was ok for me to look up IP's to find double accounts because those weren't allowed under org rules. He never replied. So, why was CR asking me about IP's?

[TinCow]

Of course I well know it, I addressed this in my original. Beefy said lucky, you said magical. Why?

I like to use interesting vocabulary.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I like to use interesting vocabulary.

Ok. What's lucky about wearing an armored shirt compared to having all 4 of your attackers extremely reliable guns not fire?

[TinCow]

I think that's a question better directed at Seamus.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I think that's a question better directed at Seamus.

You're such a lawyer ~:pat:


<<click.>> <<click.>> <<click.>> <<click.>>

All four of the brutally simple and thoroughly reliable weapons failed to fire. The gunmen were stunned – the odds of all four weapons failing to fire defied description! Beefy began to move at last, scrambling to pull open the cellar door to the tappy and make an escape. The gunman cleared the bolts and quickly rammed fresh magazines into their weapons as Beefy opened the hatch and stepped onto the ladder to the cellar.

<<click.>> <<click.>> <<click.>> <<click.>>

Stunningly, all 4 freshly-loaded weapons jammed and failed to fire again. The gunmen were shocked with disbelief. No one could have tampered with the weapons and all of the ammo had been checked by hand and meticulously loaded into the clips – yet none of the weapons got off a round.


taka was taking his usual drive home – a well lit street that was well patrolled and therefore safe – when his car was boxed in and stopped by several vehicles. In Fatlington, safe is a relative term.

Tommy guns were coming up and starting to hose lead almost as the vehicle ground to a halt. The range was less than ten feet and there was not a chance they would miss. Police were responding in under 30 seconds, sirens blaring and several cars converging on the scene, but in that half minute more than 300 rounds had been emptied from the drum magazines of the tommy guns. The assailant’s cars sped quickly into side streets and were quickly abandoned as the gunmen clear the scene.

To everyone’s surprise, taka stepped out of the vehicle with only one wound – a gouge along one cheekbone no deeper than a bad shaving cut. He was stunned as were the police. taka had worn no armor and the car had been a stock model, yet 354 rounds had failed to take him out.



Only it wasn’t a body. TinCow had been stunned and had a shallow cut across his neck just below the adam’s apple, but most of the cut had slashed through the thick throat padding of his armor vest rather than through him. He’d only added the bulky throat-piece as an after-thought tonight – normally he went without. By all rights, he should be dead instead of having the next thing to a bad shaving cut. By the slimmest of chances, he’d survived his own death at the hands of a master assassin. He went inside for a drink…make that several.

On the other hand I think the write up actually does hold your story up after rereading it.

[Ferret]

Ok. What's lucky about wearing an armored shirt compared to having all 4 of your attackers extremely reliable guns not fire?

lmao, I love watching you argue TC, you're a darn clever guy :yes: .

vote:craterus again for now, same reason as last time.

select:TC come on he's a lawyer :beam:

[Ferret]

oops wrong quote, right one:


I like to use interesting vocabulary.

[CountArach]

Who was in your group that night?
I wasn't in a protection group that night, I just didn't trust you. I stayed at home.

Last night I was involved with the failed effort on Ichigo. I really have no evidence that TinCow was the one who failed to get his PM in - it is entirely possible it was either him or Haudegen (who may well have been killed by a rival mafia family). I received the PM from Seamus saying that the kill was a failure and could forward it to anyone who wants it. That said, it probably isn't a great deal of evidence.

I have however been perusing TinCow's posts and I have found some scummy ones:
Post 2584 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=1843740#post1843740)

I regret that you are going to be very disappointed, then. I have explained everything as fully as I want to and I have no intentions of giving out more information than I already have. I most certainly will not do it for "the town" to make mafioso like you and Andres feel more comfortable in your graves. Enjoy your naps.

There are a large number of townies who know first-hand that I am reliable and have worked consistently over the last several days and nights to get information where it needs to be and to coordinate the necessary night actions. At this point, I do not feel the need to give any further public explanations for my actions. Doing so will only help the mafia. I will continue to disclose whatever information I feel is necessary for people outside the town network to know, whenever I feel like they need to know it.
One of the Town's most important things it can do is to share around as much information as it can. This leads to large webs of townies who are all able to work together. TinCow's post clearly shows that he was withholding some information from the town as a whole - something only scum would do.

Post 2487 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=1841665#post1841665)

I did not have access to the list until after night 5. On night 5, all I was able to do was direct them away from people I knew to be townies, not towards people I knew to be mafia, since I had no conclusive proof about anyone.
I ask you here - If he had no conclusive proof about anyone, how did he know they were pro-town? Perhaps he had scum-buddies on that list, or he was just trying to make friends?

Post 2480 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=1841630#post1841630)

I actively encouraged the Stracchis to hit Craterus, because I believe he is a Don. I also actively encouraged them to hit Sasaki, because I've gotten bad vibes from him for a while now. However, I became a lot less clear about Sasaki recently, and for that reason he was specifically warned about that he was going to be hit on N7. Brave_Sir_Robin was never at risk, because I knew that the third person the Stracchi's were trying to get to help with that hit would not cooperate with them.
he says he is suspicious of Craterus and Sasaki with no evidence he is willing to come forward with to back it up. I am not defending either of these two, I am just saying that *if* they were mafia, TinCow would have to have access to some sort of alternative detective results, ie - Made detective results.

The next point is played out over a couple of posts:
Post 15 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=1823419#post1823419)
He selects GH as Director.
Post 2439 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=1841496#post1841496)
He admits that he was very keen to keep GH alive.

Now from the Night 6 Summary (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1838661&postcount=14) we know that GH was a wise guy with unknown levels of activity. However, I believe that Seamus was giving us a hint about GH's loyalties in the second sentence:

GeneralHankerchief and x-dANGEr were both criminals – WiseGuys – though we can’t really be sure how active either one was. Moros too registered as a Wiseguy with our sources, but there was something fishy there as well.
So perhaps the "as well" could be read as a sign of GH's guilt? So why was TinCow so eager to save him and see him elected as a Director? Perhaps GH was recruited really early into his family or TinCow was trying to form another family earlier with him at the top. Could GH or TinCow explain this to us?

I can't be bothered to do any more digging at this point - I have to get ready to go out today.

[CountArach]

Oh yeah...

Vote: TinCow

[TruePraetorian]

Elite Ferret i laugh at you...you obviously either dont pay attention to the game or have some secret role. The only reason you are posting is because you dont want to get WoGed.

Its clear you dont know what is going on, selection was the other day, and JimBob is director again. My assumption is that you clicked the "last page" tag in the gameroom, saw Craterus and CA at up for voting, and then voted just so everyone thinks your still active.

Dont mean to use it against you, but through all the days you are inactive (no posting) you have still been posting in the Glory of Rome thread...how come? Are you trying to "stay in the shade?"

TinCow and Sasaki...i dont know why you are both argueing...i have the reason to believe you are both pro-town. Sasaki has organised plenty of protection groups which have gone just fine, leading me to believe he is pro-town. On the other hand, TinCow has been leading the offensive against mafia with his vig groups. If you look, all his targets had reasonable suspicion against them.

My overall point is there are only a few who actually are active in the thread. Others, like Elite, wait until an oppurtune time to pop in a vote and then fade back into the shadows. JimBob, if that detective is truly a trustworthy source, thenask him (or this is asking him) to investigate the "shadowy" players..they obviously are hiding leading me to believe they have something to hide from.


unvote:CA
Vote:Elite Ferret

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I wasn't in a protection group that night, I just didn't trust you. I stayed at home.

Looks bad for you.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I'd explain, but I'd like to see TinCow try to do it in a way that other people will perceive as scummy and thus get him in even hotter water.

Yes, I am WIFOMing. Make what you want out of the above.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Select: GeneralHankerchief

I have known GeneralHankerchief for many years. He has been a good friend and neighbor. I know he will do what is best for this town.

What's up with this post?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Paranoia has nothing to do with it. Even while typing this reply, I am feeling a bit paranoid; more paranoid than usual since as a townie I have no idea who is on which side. Every word can be taken as a lynchable clue and every statement a double-edged sword that hit yourself in the head. The whole, you're all alone and screwed if you misplace your trust (esp. in the beginning with the vigilante/protect groups) can make anyone to some degree paranoid. Glenn was attacked and he reacted by lashing out at the provokers. Instead of defending himself and digging himself into a bigger hole b/c of his presumed "mistake" of jokingly being paranoid, he decided to settle it via pm. His offensive pm really wasn't that offensive or scummy, he just gave you a mental note that he would be keeping his eyes on your activities which is something a townie is supposed to do. However, he probably realized that he was being too aggresive and didn't want to come off as being a mafioso and offered a truce, albeit a shady one. Also, the fact that he probably couldn't persuade anyone that you were a mafioso coupled with his lack of evidence of your guiltyness (his assumption of your mafioso role came from your actions, however a townie would also be questioning people lead to his confused state) and prompted the truce. Everyone wants to live as much as the next person and so self preservation isn't neccessarily something that would point out a mafioso. I sure don't want to die but I know that I'm not a mafioso, also. Let us wait for night results before we start a lynching comittee, it will give us a more accurate picture of who we're dealing with. Right now I'm just going to be watching scottishranger and Lord Winter, (no hunches, just watching). Yes, I'm paranoid and proud of it.


And my sword just recoiled from the blow on Sasaki's impregenable armor of reasoning and hit me in the face.

That is exactly the reason why I'm paranoid (besides I'm always a little paranoid, must get that from my Mom), fanatical mobs that kill on sight. I feel like I have to be overly careful of my wording because of people going overboard to try not let anyone slip away unnoticed. I think I rephrased that sentence like 5 times before I posted it and it still makes me look kinda scummy.:shame:


These two posts are all Draco has posted in the thread. From back on page 8 or so. He's never voted.

This is the list of inactives posted a little while ago:

FoS:
Alexander the pretty good
Big King Sanctaphrax
Draco Leman
Leet Eriksson
gibsonsg

Alexander and BKS got WoG'd. Leet has been in some prot groups supposedly. Gibsong is mafia. So Draco, what have you been doing at night that has saved you from the axe?

[Sigurd]

I replied and said it was ok for me to look up IP's to find double accounts because those weren't allowed under org rules. He never replied. So, why was CR asking me about IP's?

I would like to see the coals stoked on this one... the embers are dying.

So you didn't infiltrate the Don meeting CR and you don't have a pro account on quicktopic. I am fairly sure you mentioned something about having a pro account a long time ago.

[Caius]

vote: gibson

He's been inactive for most of the game but has yet to be killed. This suggests he has an important role, and there was a detective result (is this one questionable too, JimBob/Cow?) that showed him to be mafia.
Link?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I would like to see the coals stoked on this one... the embers are dying.

So you didn't infiltrate the Don meeting CR and you don't have a pro account on quicktopic. I am fairly sure you mentioned something about having a pro account a long time ago.

Search doesn't find anything.

[Craterus]

Craterus, suspected Don, with his vote for Gibson, leads one to believe he's involved with Ichigo and CA.

How?


Exactly as a don in one of the Godfather mafia games did, he's posting early after the night summary trying to start a run on gibson.

Irrelevant. Day phases start fairly awkwardly for me (GMT). It's late now and sometimes they finish before I get back from college. So, it's either an early vote or none at all and who knows what you'd make of inactivity. Very little, I gather, from the way the lurkers have slipped under the radar this game.


tally:
Charge: 1 (sasaki)
Craterus: 1 (CR)

Did you deliberately ignore my vote? The one upon which your entire accusation rests? ~:rolleyes:

[TinCow]

With this post, Capo de Tutti Capi - II (without sign-ups, rules, etc.) has exceeded the entirety of Capo de Tutti Capi - I.

:birthday2: :belly: :verycool:

I now return you to TinCow's post.
-- sf



One of the Town's most important things it can do is to share around as much information as it can. This leads to large webs of townies who are all able to work together. TinCow's post clearly shows that he was withholding some information from the town as a whole - something only scum would do.

Yes, only scum would withhold things like the identities of multiple detectives. It would be of vital town importance to have this information known to everyone. :inquisitive:


I ask you here - If he had no conclusive proof about anyone, how did he know they were pro-town? Perhaps he had scum-buddies on that list, or he was just trying to make friends?

I knew the identities of a large number of people working in protection and vigilante groups. I did not trust all of them, but most seemed reliable. While in retrospect I seem to have misjudged a few people, my decision was to stop the Stracchi from targeting the people in these groups. These are the people I referred to as "pro-town" in the referenced post.


he says he is suspicious of Craterus and Sasaki with no evidence he is willing to come forward with to back it up. I am not defending either of these two, I am just saying that *if* they were mafia, TinCow would have to have access to some sort of alternative detective results, ie - Made detective results.

I have access to detective results from 4 separate detectives. Of course, because I am scum, I cannot reveal their names.


So perhaps the "as well" could be read as a sign of GH's guilt? So why was TinCow so eager to save him and see him elected as a Director? Perhaps GH was recruited really early into his family or TinCow was trying to form another family earlier with him at the top. Could GH or TinCow explain this to us?


What's up with this post?

Both of these were fully explained here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1841496&postcount=2439) several days ago.

[Craterus]

@Caius: You asked for a link but I'm too lazy to search back through the thread. But if you look at TinCow's post at the top of the last page, you'll see he addresses my post and says that gibson is a minor threat and the only Stracchi remaining.

[Xehh II]

Vote: Charge

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Both of these were fully explained here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1841496&postcount=2439) several days ago.

I was curious about that post because it's the 15th post in the thread. It's surprising that you were already working with GH there, and that you refer to him being your friend for many years (while seemingly in character).

[Crazed Rabbit]

Craterus - you were also protected by an unknown character. Why was that? What reason did a doctor have to protect you?

If you have a role you could reveal it and be at less danger since there's a doctor who likes you - if you're town.

Otherwise you're mafia.

CR

[TinCow]

I was curious about that post because it's the 15th post in the thread. It's surprising that you were already working with GH there, and that you refer to him being your friend for many years (while seemingly in character).

I wasn't working with him yet, but we've been playing KOTR together for the last 15 months. I just voted for someone I knew. You'll note that Northnovas and gibson are also long-time KOTR players. That's how the group first came together.

[Charge]

Guess, everything I'll say "will be used against me" right?

[Sigurd]

Search doesn't find anything.
He has over 5000 posts to his name...

And they are both getting off the hook just because I seemingly had a mafia role.
Why aren't the town doing anything about this?

Oh.. wait the mafia is leading the town around by its nose.
Go town :2thumbsup:. You are really doing a great job.

Whatever you do, do not vote TinCow or CR.

[Crazed Rabbit]

You 'seemingly' had a role?

Good sir, you stretch the bounds of the English language and I shall not stand idly by while you abuse it so!

A known mafia, Andres, warned people not to vote for you before you 'revealed'. You killed those who were pro-town.

No one should heed you.

Crazed Rabbit

[TinCow]

CR, you must not have read Sigurd's previous posts. He made it perfectly clear that he wasn't working for the mafia.


I am not a Don, but I have worked for the mafia. I have been contacted several times by Capo II’s version of the Wolf. This wolf has put me in contact with the most powerful Dons. They are allowed to call in favours in the form of hits. I am the Hitman. I killed w&f, Louis and lastly tried to kill TinCow. They were all orders from the mafia Dons. My win conditions will be a result of how many points I am able to gain from these killings.

See? No mafia involvement at all.

[woad&fangs]

Good sir, you stretch the bounds of the English language and I shall not stand idly by while you abuse it so!


This coming from the guy who brought us mafia/Mafia:laugh4:

[TruePraetorian]

CR, your throwing around a lot of blame...to hide any suspicion against you maybe? In the past two pages you have accused everyone who has spoken out against you...

and about elite ferret a page back, him noy replying further explains hes hiding for some reason.

[PershsNhpios]

I think, Sigurd, the Mafia are leading each other around by the nose.

Because the township is not participating actively in the discussion, days have simply become a matter of groups of up to five people all pointing the finger at one another.

Hence the reason why nobody is listening to anybody - because they aren't trying to find the right end to this game, they are trying to push their end for this game.

JIMBOB! Come on Herr Director! Introduce cohesion and objective to all of this before it degenerates any further!

DISCUSS! ACTUALLY DISCUSS!

[Crazed Rabbit]

CR, your throwing around a lot of blame...to hide any suspicion against you maybe? In the past two pages you have accused everyone who has spoken out against you...

and about elite ferret a page back, him noy replying further explains hes hiding for some reason.

I throw blame where blame needs be thrown. Is Craterus not suspicious?


This coming from the guy who brought us mafia/Mafia

We must always respect the delicacies and intricacies of language.

:beam:

CR

[CountArach]

I think, Sigurd, the Mafia are leading each other around by the nose.

Because the township is not participating actively in the discussion, days have simply become a matter of groups of up to five people all pointing the finger at one another.

Hence the reason why nobody is listening to anybody - because they aren't trying to find the right end to this game, they are trying to push their end for this game.

JIMBOB! Come on Herr Director! Introduce cohesion and objective to all of this before it degenerates any further!

DISCUSS! ACTUALLY DISCUSS!
If you want discussion provide it yourself, or PM around the Townies. Don't just talk, take action.

Current Tally:
Charge - 2 (Sasaki, Xehh II)
Gibsong - 1 (Craterus)
Craterus - 2 (CR, EliteFerret)
Elite Ferret - 1 (TP)
TinCow - 1 (CA)

I also have another question for TinCow:

Clearly, one of the three of us did not show up. Since Haudegen was himself targeted for a hit, it seems blatantly obvious that he was not the person at fault. Therefore either CountArach or I are lying about participating in the hit, clearly in collusion with the Rose mafia family. This also suggests that Ichigo is from the Rose mafia family.
The leap you take with your logic here is amazing. First you say that Haudegen is innocent because he was targeted for a hit from a Mafia family, while conveniently ignoring that there are in fact multiple families, so simply being targeted means nothing at all.

And then you assume that just because he was targeted, I must be guilty? It really does seem like you have fabricated this whole thing without thinking it through. Then you assume that I must be working with Ichigo because he didn't die? I really just don't follow the logic there. It seems to me like this (Correct me if I am wrong):
Haudegen Attacked = Haudegen Innocent = Arach Guilty = Arach Killing Haudegen

I just don't follow...

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I believe Crazed Rabbit to be a Don

I posted last page how he asked me about getting member IP's before sigurd had accused him of getting the IP from a mafia don chatboard. So I exchanged some pm's with him. See for yourself:


Sasaki,
Through IP tracking I found the person identifying themselves as Don Corleone lived Norway.

Sigurd lives there. Barring any other Norwegians in the game, he seemed the likely suspect.

At the time, it was important to keep that info secret. It remains almost as important now, though obviously it has been mentioned in the thread.

If you have further questions, please ask them via PM and not in the thread.

CR

*some pm's where I expressed mistrust and he asked why he should trust me left out here*


Well, the third possibility is I use Proletariat's Don Pm from Capo I to communicate in such a way that is not a 'one trick pony' but also means I am not a don.
But for the love of pete, do not repeat the above information. It can be of no use except to assure you or enlighten the mafia. I know you understand the importance of keeping it under wraps.

It is my hope that by providing this info you will be able to quell your suspicions.

Tincow has more reason than that to trust me, and I have more reason to trust him.

Again, if you have questions, feel free to PM me.

CR


Ok...but what did you answer to these questions:

"1. Your family name – there should only be one of each.
2. The codeword in parenthesis in the first section (Victory conditions)
3. The third word in the first section (Victory conditions)
4. Quote sentence no.1 in paragraph A (General) from the section; Powers & Responsibilities."

Proles pm from last game has the same format and sections apparently? I can see how you slipped by with number one since only one family had responded.

Sasaki


The PM wasn't exactly the same, and I had to make educated guesses as to what was what. You're right about the family name and little response to the email.

CR


I was asking you what your guesses were.

Sasaki


That I'll keep to myself. Suffice to say it was along the lines of what you'd expect for the victory conditions of a Don - kill off the other dons and enough townies, etc., etc.

CR



I find this to completely unbelievable. I can only assume that he was hoping I couldn't get a copy of the don pm from capo 1. However it was posted in the thread.

First, it should be obvious to anyone that's played both games that the format has changed drastically.

Cap I townie pm:


Your Role: Townie

Your basic mode for success is to vote to lynch Mafiosi, eventually removing the mafia threat from Fatlington and creating a town win.

Role Changing:

At your discretion, however, this role can change. This will take time, effort, and coordination with other townies. If you:

Combine with 3 other townies you can attempt to kill one target per night (after two successful kills, you will become a “Wise Guy” and can progress from there).

Combine with 2 other townies you can attempt to protect one target per night (after two successful protections, one of you may become a “Doctor “ and can progress from there).

Creating these combinations is up to you however, and you will have to work out your own deals/contracts/arrangements for forming such a combo with the other players.

PM’s:

Each night you are still alive, PM me with instructions for your actions that night. These may be:

“Get some sleep” “Protect so-and-so in combination with player 1, player 2…” or “kill so-and-so in combination with player 1, player 2…”

Warning: if the requisite number of townies is NOT available, the protection/kill effort will almost certainly fail. If a townie attempts a kill/protection solo, the effort will certainly fail, and there will be at least one chance in three that the townie will perish in the attempt.

Investigations:

It is most probable that, if investigated by a Detective or by a Made Gangster, you will be discovered as “innocent.” Remember, however, that a significant minority (20%) of townspeople will register as “unclear” rather than innocent if investigated by a Made and as “criminal” (5-10%) if investigated by a detective. You will only register as “guilty” if you have participated in a killing.

Getting Recruited:

What if a Mafioso seeks to recruit you? You can respond as you wish to such an offer. However, if they believe you to be a Wise Guy and use you as part of a kill team, that team will very likely fail unless you are an “extra” and they already have sufficient killers on the team.

Capo II townie pm:


Role

Townie


Victory Condition

You achieve victory by voting to lynch suspicious individuals and/or participate personally in their removal until such time as: a) all of the Mafia Dons, original and created, have been killed and b) the remaining townies and unaligned WiseGuys outnumber the remaining Mafiosi. Your personal survival, though important, is secondary to the overall success of the town.

Powers & Responsibilities

A. General:

1. Townies have no special role-related qualities at the outset of the game – you are the “salt of the earth” of Fatlington.

2. Here is where information as to any whacky individual characteristics will go. They will NOT be for sharing with any other player, but may provide you some advantage. ANY information in RED on your rolesheets is to be held in strict confidence and NOT shared in any manner during the game without the express prior consent of the Game host. You have been warned. Save it for your post-game write up.
B. Day Actions:

1. You can select/vote as can all players.

C. Night Actions:

1. In combination with 3 other townies, you can form a vigilante group (4 required) and attempt to kill one other player. More than 4 townies can work in the same group, though this does not provide any other benefit aside from participation credit. If only 2 or 3 townies participate in a kill effort, that effort automatically fails. If only 1 townie attempts a kill, that effort fails and the townie has a 1 in 3 chance of dying themselves in making the failed attempt.

2. After two such successful kills, you may elect to continue the game as a Wiseguy, or you may remain a Townie. You will be given this role-change opportunity only once.

3. In combination with 2 other townies, you can form a protection group (3 required) and attempt to protect one other player. If no attack occurs, nothing happens. If the target is attacked your group will save her/him and receive credit for the save. More than 3 townies can work in the same group, though this does not provide any other benefit aside from participation credit. If only 2 townies participate in a save effort and the target is attacked, that effort automatically fails. If only 1 townie attempts a save and the target is attacked, that effort fails and the townie has a 1 in 3 chance of dying themselves in making the failed attempt.

4. After two such successful saves, one of your group may be selected (randomly) to continue the game as a Doctor. If refused, the opportunity will be passed to another member of that group. You will be given this role-change opportunity only once.

5. If you: a) choose to continue in a protection group without becoming a doctor, b) have never participated in a killing, and c) you participate in a two additional saves, you will be offered the opportunity to become a Detective for the remainder of the Game. You will be given this role-change opportunity only once.

D. Investigations:

1. If investigated by a Detective or a Made Gangster, it is most probable that you will be discovered as “innocent.” Remember, however, that a significant minority (20%) of townspeople will register as “unclear” rather than innocent if investigated by a Made and as “criminal” if investigated by a detective. These 20% minorities will not be the same for both categories. You will only register as “guilty” if you have participated in a killing.


Role Changing

As noted above under night actions, it is possible for you to change roles. Once you change roles from Townie to WiseGuy, Doctor or Detective, however, you may not reverse the decision – you have made a permanent change. You may progress into other roles from there as appropriate to your new role.


Now, the Don pm from last game:


Your Role: Don Corleone

You are the boss of a crime family, and your goal is to take over Fatlington and become the Capo de Tutti Capi (Captain of Captains). To do this, you will need to eliminate all of the other Dons and establish a crime family that outnumbers the remaining Mafiosi and citizens of the town.

Powers and Limitations:

Your death is part of the victory conditions for the other Dons, and will also severely limit your families chance of success as creating a new Don is time-consuming.

You will almost always appear innocent in investigations because, normally, the Don makes no moves him/herself – that’s what your family members are for!

You will choose some “signature” component that will feature in all of your family’s killings. This may be a consistent method, a symbol or calling card, or some other distinctive characteristic – but it must be used in each killing without exception. You must notify me of this characteristic with your first nighttime PM.

If you have no other family members left, you may perform one of the following once per night: a) attempt to kill one target, or b) attempt to investigate two other citizens. Your investigation will parallel those of a made and help you identify further possible recruits.

You, and only you from your family, are aware of a special “friend” of the Mafiosi of Fatlington – The Wolf. Though not a member of your family, this person can provide unusually effective protection once in a while making it easier for your Family to achieve success and harder for detectives to track you. This is not without a price however, as you then owe The Wolf a favor which he/she can collect when they see fit and which you MUST honor, unless it would involve attacking a member of your own family.

PM’s:

Each night you are still alive, PM me with instructions for your actions that night. These may be:

“Get some sleep” OR if solo “kill so-and-so” or “investigate so and so”

Investigations:

If investigated by a Detective or by a Made Gangster, you will almost certainly be discovered to be “innocent.” You will only register as “criminal” or “guilty” if you have personally participated in a killing.

Corleone Luca = GeneralHankerchief

Corleone Made = Major Robert Dump

The Wolf = Sasaki Kojiro

Now, here's the list of test questions again:


The meeting of the Dons will be on an external forum where new accounts will be made, one for each Don (the dons register via a link provided).
Send an email using a fresh account, like the one provided above, with answers to these questions where the answers will only be found in the non red sections of your role pm:

1. Your family name – there should only be one of each.
2. The codeword in parenthesis in the first section (Victory conditions)
3. The third word in the first section (Victory conditions)
4. Quote sentence no.1 in paragraph A (General) from the section; Powers & Responsibilities.

If you are not able to answer these questions you will not receive an invitation.
The questions are a precoution against any claimants not being a real Don...

I hope to hear from you...

Family name can be a lucky guess, I give him a pass on that. But in the old don pm there are three words in the parentheses. If you compare the "victory condition" sections from the old and new townie pm's you'll see how much they've changed. The third word is almost certainly different as well. And finally number four involves quoting an entire sentence. From the section that probably lists the dons abilities that have changed since last game.

It looks to me like CR is a don and either set up the original meeting or responded to the other don. Then he got the IP and thought sigurd was a don. Obviously he couldn't just post this in the thread so he talked Jimbob into pretending it was an FBI result. He's been hounding Sigurd since then and trying to make it look like he didn't do anything with IP's. He repeatedly asks me to keep the conversation out of the thread. He must be a don.

Unvote:Charge
Vote:Crazed Rabbit

[Crazed Rabbit]

Okay, question for you Sasaki - why would I want to kill the hitman if I was a Don?

:dizzy2:

CR

[Sigurd]

You don't have a pro account CR - a lie!!
You never infiltrated the Don meeting - a lie!!

Caught in lies CR makes you scum.
Not only that... you have infiltrated the pro-town camp and wispered sweet words in the ears of JimBob and probably TinCow as well.

I am satisfied. The FBI results were nothing but slander from a Don afraid of getting his family wiped out by the unpartial hitman... Justice come to those who betray.

The ones I killed were not the best sons of the town:



[...]
The other WiseGuy who died was woad&fangs, and there is some evidence that he was involved in the killings – probably trying to work his way into a crime family.
[...]
While Louis VI was a criminal who’d been involved in some of the Stracci murders – no surprise there I guess.
[...] I wonder how many townies you have killed?

[CountArach]

Well, that convinces me.

Unvote: TinCow
Vote: CR


Current Tally:
Charge - 1 (Xehh II)
Gibsong - 1 (Craterus)
Craterus - 2 (CR, EliteFerret)
Elite Ferret - 1 (TP)
CR - 2 (Sasaki, CA)

[Husar]

Two things I'd like to add:

1. Prole said she does not remember sending her PM to CR back then, maybe she just forgot but maybe she didn't
2. He says Don PM all the time so from previous experience(mafia/Mafia) my guess is that he'd call prole's old PM a Donna PM or something like that. :dizzy2:

Sigurd also has a good point, despite the many indications that Louis was actually pro-town, but there are quite a few reasonsfor a Don to kill the Hitman somehow if that Hitman also gets contracts from other Dons. Whether the Hitman could have turned pro-town as has been brought up depends on whether he could ignore contracts and kill on his own but I guess he might have gotten less/no points for his victory if it was possible.

[Andres]

Vote: CR


Are you guys really going to lynch the FBI detective?

[Joe Monks]

Vote:Crazed Rabbit

Select:Jimbob

If voting closes before 1800 I cannot participate in the rest of the day. I do not think Tincow is scummy though I think all his actions are clearly pro-town. I am also wondering if the hit on ichigo failed cos haudegan was killed first?

How does that work out?

Joe

[TinCow]

Oh my dear lord. You are making a big mistake Sasaki.

Vote: Craterus

I do not believe that Craterus has any conclusive evidence against him yet, but I can't let CR be hanged and Craterus is the closest competitior. Beware townies. You are letting taunts by dead mafioso and paranoia lead you in the wrong direction.

[Husar]

Are you guys really going to lynch the FBI detective?
Yes.

If he really is the FBI detective then I'll be so blunt as to say he messed up somehow. :dizzy2:
And I'm not saying I never messed up, it happens and sometimes you get lynched for it. Other times you're just guilty and are rightfully lynched for it. ~D

[Andres]

Beware townies. You are letting taunts by dead mafioso and paranoia lead you in the wrong direction.

Well, the only thing you have to do is posting (a piece of) the detective role pm, off course leaving the name out of it. You must have such a role pm, how else could you possible have checked the role claim of those pretending to be detectives?

Then we can ordeal for ourselves if the detectives who are giving you, CR and Jimbob their results are what they pretend to be.

Also, TinCow, after we are sure that you, Jimbob and/or CR are indeed in contact with real detectives, I suggest both you and CR do not participate in any night actions and you let yourselves investigated by those detectives the first coming night.

Jimbob, the only truly confirmed pro-town player thus far (can't believe some of you are even considering to select somebody else as director), can post those results the next day and then we'll see.

[Husar]

Jimbob, the only truly confirmed pro-town player thus far (can't believe some of you are even considering to select somebody else as director), can post those results the next day and then we'll see.
Well, JimBob doesn't seem to be here and there are people I trust a bit more anyway. Why was he confirmed pro-town again? Glenn got an innocent result or what was it? :inquisitive:

It's also astounding how anyone is supposed to consider the opinion of Andres, the only truly, self-confirmed pro-mafia player. ~;p

[Andres]

It's also astounding how anyone is supposed to consider the opinion of Andres, the only truly, self-confirmed pro-mafia player. ~;p

So, if I give decent pro-town advice, you are going to ignore it?

Tsk, tsk, tsk :no:

[Proletariat]

This seals it for me.

Vote: Crazed Rabbit

We're supposed to believe that Crazed Rabbit infiltrated the Don meeting by using my old Donna PM. I'm pretty certain I never sent it to him, it's obviously a very different Don(na) PM now, and it was in the CDTC1 thread anyway.

So Crazed Rabbit pulled this off, then guessed a family name to impersonate, and uhm that exact family never showed up to the Don meeting. It doesn't add up.

Crazed, you're either a Don or an FBI Agent who might as well be lynched because no one can believe you now anyway.

[Kagemusha]

With the evidence seen before, il vote: CR. How can you infiltrate a Don meeting without a Don pm?

[Cowhead418]

I will Vote: Craterus for now because I'm not yet ready to believe that CR is guilty. He has been working with Tincow and JimBob for quite some time and due to their efforts in eliminating mafia scum I believe them to be pro-town. However, I think it would be helpful to know what kind of role, if any, CR has. If he has an important one there are plenty of doctors available. I can't recall if he has made a claim to any role previously.

[TinCow]

First of all, I want to say that this game is brilliant. Kudos to Seamus. I am really enjoying this. Maybe I'm just sadistic, but these kinds of situations are immensely enjoyable. I'm definitely in for Capo III. :2thumbsup:

Now, I really do believe that CR is innocent, so I am going to do my best to defend him. Since it's already obvious that he claims to be the FBI Detective, I will do my best to produce the evidence I have that will prove that. If any of this evidence convinces people, I would like to humbly request that some Doctor/Surgeon out there protect him in the future, since he will be extremely vulnerable if he survives this lynch vote.

Exhibit A:

Partial Role PM CR sent to JimBob and I a week ago. Clearly most of it is missing due to 'red' text. Since this is my first mafia game, the PM is meaningless to me, since I wouldn't know a real FBI role PM if it hit me in the face. Others may be able to verify or refute its validity.


Tincow and JimBob,
Since people in the thread are asking of how sure you can be of the FBI agent, let me help. As you probably already know, I am the FBI agent.


Role

Special Agent (Detective), Federal Bureau of Investigations


Victory Condition

You achieve victory by voting to lynch suspicious individuals and/or participate personally in their removal until such time as: a) all of the Mafia Dons, original and created, have been killed and b) the remaining townies and unaligned WiseGuys outnumber the remaining Mafiosi. Your personal survival, though important, is secondary to the overall success of the town.

Just wanted to let you fellows be 100% sure of that.

Please don't tell anyone, even for the townies, I am the FBI detective. Also, I may need protection tonight.

CR

More exhibits will follow, after I go get some coffee. :coffeenews:

[naut]

NVM.

[TinCow]

Exhibit B:

Excerpt from a PM from Dutch_guy when he was about to get lynched:


Also, I have been in contact with Crazed Rabbit, who seems eager to get a hold of my role PM. He has dogged multiple questions concerning his allegiance, so I'm guessing he's not pro town. His reason for getting a hold of my role PM was, in his own words, to track down Glenn's killer. Not buying that. But perhaps we can use this situation to our advantage. I could ask for something in return, but I have yet to figure out what exactly I should ask.

As we all know, Dutch_guy was the Stracchi Luca. If CR was a Don, he would already have access to a Luca PM. Why would he need Dutch_guy's?

[Makanyane]

First of all, I want to say that this game is brilliant. Kudos to Seamus. I am really enjoying this. Maybe I'm just sadistic, but these kinds of situations are immensely enjoyable. I'm definitely in for Capo III. :2thumbsup:

Now, I really do believe that CR is innocent, so I am going to do my best to defend him. Since it's already obvious that he claims to be the FBI Detective, I will do my best to produce the evidence I have that will prove that. If any of this evidence convinces people, I would like to humbly request that some Doctor/Surgeon out there protect him in the future, since he will be extremely vulnerable if he survives this lynch vote.

Exhibit A:

Partial Role PM CR sent to JimBob and I a week ago. Clearly most of it is missing due to 'red' text. Since this is my first mafia game, the PM is meaningless to me, since I wouldn't know a real FBI role PM if it hit me in the face. Others may be able to verify or refute its validity.



More exhibits will follow, after I go get some coffee. :coffeenews:

ROFL will your next exhibit include more than the victory conditions from the townie pm (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1819573&postcount=2) Seamus posted and the word FBI detective added?


Victory Condition

You achieve victory by voting to lynch suspicious individuals and/or participate personally in their removal until such time as: a) all of the Mafia Dons, original and created, have been killed and b) the remaining townies and unaligned WiseGuys outnumber the remaining Mafiosi. Your personal survival, though important, is secondary to the overall success of the town.

[Drisos]

Gah! :wall: Can't find my detective PM anymore in my inbox... big mistake.

Aw well.

Hmm. Mayakane... the victory condition stuff could very well be correct. Sounds very familiar.

[Kagemusha]

Tincow. Your post doesnt give any explanation still, how CR was supposed to infiltrate Don meeting without the Don pm.

[Andres]

Gah! :wall: Can't find my detective PM anymore in my inbox... big mistake.


Not that it would have been of any use, since you're dead...

[TinCow]

Exhibit C:

The PM that started this whole Sigurd situation:


Tincow and Jimbob,

The following is of top secrecy, and must not be spoken of or hinted at to any other people.

As you know, I was woefully misinformed earlier on the identity of Don Corleone.

I emailed the anonymous don email and recieved a reply.

From that reply, I checked the headings and found the originating IP. I checked that IP and found it belonging to an organization in Amsterdam. And so I assumed the sender was from Amsterdam.

But I was wrong. And so I rechecked, and followed the IP address further - and it lead to BaneTele AS, the state broadband company of Norway.

And so I checked every member in the game and found only one to be confirmed from Norway - Sigurd Fafnesbane. There are other reasons to believe he's don - his manner in this game, his vote to hang hannibalarc instead of Tiberius, made of the Corleone family.

There were some others I couldn't pin down - gibsonsg91921, Joe Monks, johnhughthom (who's only vote once as an abstain, and posted about twice, which makes you wonder how he's still alive. If this continues and he doesn't get WoG'd he must be checked out) - but I don't think they are norwegian.

I believe there is an 85% chance Sigurd is Don Corleone. There are some other possibilities - a Norwegian communicating on behalf of the don, but even then, Sigurd is likely to be part of the Corleone family.

Thoughts on this?

Please remember this is of the utmost secrecy.

If we decide Sigurd is likely Don, and to go after him in the day phase as a lynch, one of you (Jimbob?) should post in the thread that you received results from the FBI detective, who investigated Sigurd twice and got the result that he was the Don. I can give you a believable result from Seamus, and assure you that no one else will (truthfully) claim the role. And if they do, we know they're mafia scum.

That leaves us some choices for the day phase if we decide Sigurd is the Don. I also know Makayane is a Tataglia killer, as well. Double lynches are fraught with peril for the town. But if we avoid the stupidness of getting someone like xdeathfire on the list, and make it between someone like DG and Don Corleone, or between Mak and Don C, then we could perhaps learn something about who else is in each respective family, even if we don't get a double lynch.

I'm going to investigate little grizzly and Norwegian nerd, I think.

Crazed Rabbit

PS - I confirmed CA as a pro-town role and got Husar to put a protection group on him.

Please pay particular emphasis to the section I underlined. CR has a good point here. If he is not the real FBI Detective, where is the real FBI detective? Surely someone somewhere knows who he or she is? Will someone step forward and claim this?

It is not without a bit of irony that I note CR's validation of CA (who I have recently accused) in the postscript. However, CR was looking into CA for a while before this, it was not a new situation. CR certainly could have been duped.

Exhibit D:

A PM that followed shortly afterwards in the ensuing conversation:


I didn't have time to explain it last night, but here's why we can't talk about the IP thing (yet, anyways).

I did manage to sneak into the anonymous Don chat area.

But if we use this evidence now, they'll get scared, arange a new meeting place, and I'll lose that info.

For example, I know the Corleones are sending a 'hitman' after Louis, to kill him and make it look like the serial killer.*

To use this info someone must simply send another email to the don hotmail account [ don1_capodetutticapi@hotmail.com ], and get a reply. I don't have time - I've got class in 15 minutes, and exam 2 hrs 15 minutes from now which I need to prepare more for.

On the up side, I am now 100% sure it's Sigurd.

CR

*this claim should be examined later - maybe the Corleones are friends with the serial killer?

The evidence clearly shows that the Hitman really did kill Louis immediately after this was sent. If CR was a Don, he would have known right then and there that Sigurd was the Hitman. Why would he disclose the information about the Hitman going after Louis, and then FoS the Hitman?

Also, this is the explanation on why we kept the information secret: it was hoped that CR could get more useful information out of the 'Don group.' As it turns out, they somehow figured out he was a mole and cut off the flow of information.

[TinCow]

Tincow. Your post doesnt give any explanation still, how CR was supposed to infiltrate Don meeting without the Don pm.

True. At that I can only speculate, and I believe my speculation would do a disservice to everyone. I can think of plausible answers for all of them, but if CR is a Don, that would just give him an easy way out by saying that I am right. Therefore I will leave that answer up to CR.

[Andres]

As we all know, Dutch_guy was the Stracchi Luca. If CR was a Don, he would already have access to a Luca PM. Why would he need Dutch_guy's?

Did CR knew that you were in contact with the Stracci's?


EDIT: also, it would be nice if CR posted a link to that particular quicktopic.

[TinCow]

Did CR knew that you were in contact with the Stracci's?

Not at that point, no. At that point only JimBob and I knew. I informed CR just prior to the night when we hit Northnovas and Tran.

[Andres]

Not at that point, no. At that point only JimBob and I knew. I informed CR just prior to the night when we hit Northnovas and Tran.

Any particular reason for excluding CR from your network for so long?

[TinCow]

Any particular reason for excluding CR from your network for so long?

The only thing he was excluded from was the fact that I was relaying information from the Stracchis. Only JimBob knew about that. CR was involved in everything else. It was actually JimBob who at first convinced me that CR was trustworthy. I didn't trust anyone but JimBob for a long time, so I did not want my information going beyond him. Eventually the totality of the evidence I saw convinced me of CR's role, so I came clean to him so that he could help us organize the final (successful) lynching of Dutch_guy, followed by the simultaneous hits on Northnovas and Tran.

[Andres]

Now, Makanyane may be scum, just like me, but she makes a valid point about the part of CR's "FBI Detective role pm":


Role

Special Agent (Detective), Federal Bureau of Investigations


Victory Condition

You achieve victory by voting to lynch suspicious individuals and/or participate personally in their removal until such time as: a) all of the Mafia Dons, original and created, have been killed and b) the remaining townies and unaligned WiseGuys outnumber the remaining Mafiosi. Your personal survival, though important, is secondary to the overall success of the town.


Victory Condition

You achieve victory by voting to lynch suspicious individuals and/or participate personally in their removal until such time as: a) all of the Mafia Dons, original and created, have been killed and b) the remaining townies and unaligned WiseGuys outnumber the remaining Mafiosi. Your personal survival, though important, is secondary to the overall success of the town.

I have difficulties to believe TinCow when he says that he believed CR's "reveal" to be genuine.


The only thing he was excluded from was the fact that I was relaying information from the Stracchis. Only JimBob knew about that. CR was involved in everything else. It was actually JimBob who at first convinced me that CR was trustworthy. I didn't trust anyone but JimBob for a long time, so I did not want my information going beyond him. Eventually the totality of the evidence I saw convinced me of CR's role, so I came clean to him so that he could help us organize the final (successful) lynching of Dutch_guy, followed by the simultaneous hits on Northnovas and Tran.

So, you happily forwarded a top secret pm from a player who might have been a detective (but you were not 100 % certain about that, but the possibility was certainly there) to people who were confirmed mafia scum (that you were 100 % certain of).

Isn't that an odd action for a self declared pro-town player?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

TinCow, your evidence is "He said so"???

Please check my exhibit A (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1402877&postcount=1449) and don't be so trusting. No I was not the rogue detective that game.

Your exhibit A is a a piece that is identical to the townie pm with a bit at the top that says fbi.

Your exhibit B is evidence that CR tried to get the luca pm. Pretty meaningless and wifom. He can't tell you guys he already had the luca pm so if he wanted it he had to acquire it from somewhere. It's also possible his luca is dead and had never sent it to him.

For Exhibit C, there's no reason for the fbi detective to reveal himself in the thread just yet.

Exhibit D, I don't even see what your arguing here.


And you don't even try to explain the biggest thing, which is that there is no way CR could have infiltrated the meeting using the old pm.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I also think it's hilarious that he confirms CountArach as a protown role.

[TinCow]

So, you happily forwarded a top secret pm from a player who might have been a detective (but you were not 100 % certain about that, but the possibility was certainly there) to people who were confirmed mafia scum (that you were 100 % certain of).

Isn't that an odd action for a self declared pro-town player?

I had to supply you with enough townie 'inside' information to convince you I was on your side. It was a calculated risk and it paid off. Certainly, some of that information could have been used against the town, but if I didn't give you enough information, you would have suspected I was hiding something from you (as you openly did the one time I failed to give you the names of the protection/vigilante group participants). Criticize me all you want, but my method worked and the Stracchis are now all but extinct.

[Crazed Rabbit]

I am the FBI Agent:

Role

Special Agent (Detective), Federal Bureau of Investigations


Victory Condition

You achieve victory by voting to lynch suspicious individuals and/or participate personally in their removal until such time as: a) all of the Mafia Dons, original and created, have been killed and b) the remaining townies and unaligned WiseGuys outnumber the remaining Mafiosi. Your personal survival, though important, is secondary to the overall success of the town.

Powers & Responsibilities

A. General:

1. Your identity is hidden for your safety, as are the identities of the other detectives.
Should you reveal your role, be aware that it will make you a high priority target for the mafia.

2. You may not join a townie “vigilante” group.

B. Day Actions:

1. You can select/vote as can all players.

C. Night Actions:

1. In combination with 2 other townies, you can form a protection group (3 required) and attempt to protect one other player. If no attack occurs, nothing happens. If the target is attacked your group will save her/him and receive credit for the save. More than 3 townies can work in the same group, though this does not provide any other benefit aside from participation credit. If only 2 townies participate in a save effort and the target is attacked, that effort automatically fails. If only 1 townie attempts a save and the target is attacked, that effort fails and the townie has a 1 in 3 chance of dying themselves in making the failed attempt. You cannot conduct investigations while protecting someone.

2. After two such successful saves, one of your group may be selected (randomly, but not you) to continue the game as a Doctor.

3. Each night phase that you are not involved in protecting someone, you can conduct two investigations. Working with the FBI resources, your investigations are slower, but provide better information.

D. Investigations:

1. If investigated by a Detective or a Made Gangster, it is virtually certain that you will be discovered as “innocent.”

2. When conducting an investigation, remember that “innocents” include Townies, Doctors, Detectives, the FBI Detective and Dons, that “Criminal” includes some Townies as well as WiseGuys, Made Gangsters, and Lucas. “Guilty” includes Mades and Wise Guys on the night of a kill as well as any Townie who has ever been involved in a killing. Your results also include some chance (1 in 6, 1 in 36 for Dons) to determine that player’s role. Subsequent investigations of the same person are possible and will give you a 3 in 6 chance to learn their role (1 in 6 for Dons), and a smaller chance (1 in 6, 1 in 36 for Dons) to learn details of some of their actions during the game. The results of your investigations will be provided to you near the beginning of the 2nd day phase following your investigations.


Role Changing

You may not change roles.

Red areas eliminated.

Thanks a lot, Sasaki.


And you don't even try to explain the biggest thing, which is that there is no way CR could have infiltrated the meeting using the old pm.

Please do stop attacking me based on your ignorance of the situation.


So, you happily forwarded a top secret pm from a player who might have been a detective (but you were not 100 % certain about that, but the possibility was certainly there) to people who were confirmed mafia scum (that you were 100 % certain of).

:inquisitive:

Investigations to be posted shortly.

CR

[Kagemusha]

I am the FBI Agent:


Red areas eliminated.

Thanks a lot, Sasaki.


Please do stop attacking me based on your ignorance of the situation.


:inquisitive:

Investigations to be posted shortly.

CR

If you are the FBI detective, why did you lie about the results of Sigurd and also you still havent answered how you got into the Don meeting without a Don pm?

[Andres]

I had to supply you with enough townie 'inside' information to convince you I was on your side. It was a calculated risk and it paid off. Certainly, some of that information could have been used against the town, but if I didn't give you enough information, you would have suspected I was hiding something from you (as you openly did the one time I failed to give you the names of the protection/vigilante group participants). Criticize me all you want, but my method worked and the Stracchis are now all but extinct.

We already were extinct. If you had simply declined our offer to cooperate, the only thing you had to do was lynching Dutch_guy (which sounded easier then it turned out to be :laugh4:) and all of the Stracci's would have been exterminated.

There was no need for "a method" to destroy the Stracci's. Louis had already done that. Thanks to you, we survived just long enough to take out Louis.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Fascinating. No explanation as to why you didn't send tincow the whole pm earlier?

For reference, here's the FBI pm that was posted in the old capo thread:


Your Role: FBI Detective

As with any pro-townie role, your basic mode for success is to vote to lynch Mafiosi, eventually removing the mafia threat from Fatlington and creating a town win. Moreover, you are Fatlington’s only FBI Detective. Each night phase, you can investigate two of your fellow Townies to try to discover Mafiosi etc.

Role Changing:

You may not change roles. If you combine with 2 other townies you can attempt to protect one target per night (after two successful protections, one of the group (not you) may become a “Doctor “ and can progress from there). Creating such a combination is up to you however, and you will have to work out your own deals/contracts/arrangements for forming such a combo with the other players.

PM’s:

Each night you are still alive, PM me with instructions for your actions that night. These may be:

“Get some sleep” “Investigate so-and-so” “Protect so-and-so in combination with player 1, player 2…” or “kill so-and-so in combination with player 1, player 2…”

Warning: if the requisite number of townies is NOT available, the protection/kill effort will almost certainly fail. If a townie attempts a kill/protection solo, the effort will certainly fail, and there will be at least one chance in three that the townie will perish in the attempt.

Investigations:

You will always register as “innocent” if investigated. When investigating others, your information will be significantly delayed – but much more accurate – then a regular detective. Rather then receiving your information at the conclusion of the night phase (when the regular detective gets their answer), you will receive yours AFTER the voting has closed on the following day phase.
When investigating others, remember that “innocents” include Townies and Dons, that “Criminal” includes some Townies as well as mafia Mades and Lucas. “Guilty” includes Mades and Wise Guys on the night of a kill as well as any Townie who has been involved in a killing. When you’ve identified a “guilty” target you may (60% if Made/Luca, 80% if Wise Guy, 100% if Townie) get additional evidence about other crimes or other data as well.

Special Note: You have one chance in 10 on each investigation to learn the exact role of the player investigated as well as the “normal” detective information above. This chance drops to 1 in 20 for identifying the Dons.

Getting Recruited:

What if a Mafioso seeks to recruit you? You can respond as you wish to such an offer. However, if they believe you to be a Wise Guy and use you as part of a kill team, that team will very likely fail unless you are an “extra” and they already have sufficient killers on the team. If recruited by a townie group, you can function as a normal townie (though you cannot participate in a killing) – and sometimes use your special function as well.



Please do stop attacking me based on your ignorance of the situation.

Why? It's pretty clear you can't explain that and if you can't explain it you must be a Don. Earlier you said you wouldn't send me your email because you didn't want me to post it in the thread but it's all in the thread now. Prole also says she never sent you her donna pm.

Instead you've just posted a generic fbi pm.

[Myrddraal]

Fascinating. I say we let CA off the hook, on the condition that he reveals all his information. Including, since he's burnt now anyway, how he infiltrated the meeting of the dons. If he's lying, those lies will surely show through over the next few turns, and we can protect him at night.

Has anybody got an updated tally?

CR, I hope you realise that you're going to need a good explanation for the don meeting infiltration...

[Crazed Rabbit]

N1
Investigate: Andres (Guilty) & Proletariat (Innocent)

N2
GeneralHankerchief = Criminal, WiseGuy

Moros = Criminal

N3
Twilightblade = criminal

Makanyane = guilty

N4
factionheir = guilty

hiji = guilty

N5
Joe Monks = criminal

Makanyane = guilty N5, Tataglia Luca from outset of game.

N6
[***********] = innocent

[***********] = innocent

N7
[***********] = innocent

Warluster = criminal

N8
[***********]= Innocent

[***********] = Innocent

The names of the innocent have been covered. If people insist, they'll be uncovered.


If you are the FBI detective, why did you lie about the results of Sigurd and also you still havent answered how you got into the Don meeting without a Don pm?

Gee, maybe so I could continue trying to spy on them, and so people wouldn't rush to vote me. Sounds like a pretty stupid question now, doesn't it?

And as I said, I did have a don PM - Prole's from last game.

CR

[LittleGrizzly]

CR ive been holding off voting as im awaiting an explanation as to the don meeting infiltration...

you used proles old don pm... werent they asking for certain words, like word 4 line 4, i find it hard to believe they would be identical got an explanation ?

but what about the family name... how did you pick one someone else hadn't claimed ?

and whats this about investigating me, a waste of time i can assure you.. but im assuming you won't take my word for it...

[Andres]

And as I said, I did have a don PM - Prole's from last game.

CR is telling the truth. Don't lynch him!

[TinCow]

I can confirm that the results CR just posted are the ones he sent me. It is important to note that it was based on CR's N4 results that we killed Factionheir. As the write-up confirms, Factionheir was a Made. Also, CR specifically named Makanyane to JimBob and I as the Tataglia Luca a long, long time ago. Based on this information, she was killed on N8.

I would like to make a proposal: spare CR from the lynch today and wait for the result on Makanyane. If she turns out to have been a Tataglia Luca, then the evidence will strong suggest that CR's investigation results are real. If they are real, then his role is real.

Give it one day, people. There are other mafioso we can lynch right now. Do we really want to risk killing the FBI Detective?

[Crazed Rabbit]

Fascinating. No explanation as to why you didn't send tincow the whole pm earlier?

Ahem -

So, you happily forwarded a top secret pm from a player who might have been a detective (but you were not 100 % certain about that, but the possibility was certainly there) to people who were confirmed mafia scum (that you were 100 % certain of).


For reference, here's the FBI pm that was posted in the old capo thread:

Wait one ******* minute. You go on and on about how I can't possibly use an old Don PM because they've changed so drastically and all that BS you know nothing about, and then when I post an obviously new FBI PM you act like it's no big deal, and say it's generic. They are obviously different.

You cannot have it both ways. Either PMs are the same and I should not be held under such tight scrutiny for getting into the Don meeting, or they are different and I am the FBI detective.



Prole also says she never sent you her donna pm.

Prole would be wrong:

Heya, thugs!

Hope you guys are having a nice week so far.

My email is [edited]@yahoo.com

We can discuss further there. Let me know what you guys would like to do tonight so we can get our pm to Seamus in on time. I don't know what info you two have, but here's what I got from Seamus, to keep you up to speed.

What do we make of Sasaki being our Wolf? I think we coulda done better, but we'll see. Any thoughts on our signature kill style?

Anyway, looking forward to working with you two. I'll be a little more busy than usual, so offer as much advice as you feel, I'm open to anything. Maybe tonight we should look at recruiting rather than offing a pair, but lemme know what you think. I'll try and stay on top of things as much as possible, but point out anything you think I might be missing or didn't catch wind of

You got my email, catch you guys later


Your Role: Donna Barzini

You are the boss of a crime family, and your goal is to take over Fatlington and become the Capo de Tutti Capi (Captain of Captains). To do this, you will need to eliminate all of the other Dons and establish a crime family that outnumbers the remaining Mafiosi and citizens of the town.

Powers and Limitations:

Your death is part of the victory conditions for the other Dons, and will also severely limit your families chance of success as creating a new Don is time-consuming.

You will almost always appear innocent in investigations because, normally, the Don makes no moves him/herself – that’s what your family members are for!

You will choose some “signature” component that will feature in all of your family’s killings. This may be a consistent method, a symbol or calling card, or some other distinctive characteristic – but it must be used in each killing without exception. You must notify me of this characteristic with your first nighttime PM.

If you have no other family members left, you may perform one of the following once per night: a) attempt to kill one target, or b) attempt to investigate two other citizens. Your investigation will parallel those of a made and help you identify further possible recruits.

You, and only you from your family, are aware of a special “friend” of the Mafiosi of Fatlington – The Wolf. Though not a member of your family, this person can provide unusually effective protection once in a while making it easier for your Family to achieve success and harder for detectives to track you. This is not without a price however, as you then owe The Wolf a favor which he/she can collect when they see fit and which you MUST honor, unless it would involve attacking a member of your own family.

PM’s:

Each night you are still alive, PM me with instructions for your actions that night. These may be:

“Get some sleep” OR if solo “kill so-and-so” or “investigate so and so”

Investigations:

If investigated by a Detective or by a Made Gangster, you will almost certainly be discovered to be “innocent.” You will only register as “criminal” or “guilty” if you have personally participated in a killing.

Barzini Luca = Reenk Roink

Barzini Made = Crazed Rabbit

The Wolf = Sasaki Kojiro


[edited]@gmail.com

further communication should be along these lines

Full results:
N1
Investigate: Andres (Guilty) & Proletariat (Innocent)

N2
GeneralHankerchief = Criminal, WiseGuy

Moros = Criminal

N3
Twilightblade = criminal

Makanyane = guilty

N4
factionheir = guilty

hiji = guilty

N5
Joe Monks = criminal

Makanyane = guilty N5, Tataglia Luca from outset of game.

N6
LittleGrizzly = innocent

norwegian nerd = innocent

N7
Roadkill = innocent

Warluster = criminal

N8
Myrddraal = Innocent

Ironside = Innocent

[Sasaki Kojiro]

All he has to do is explain exactly how he infiltrated the meeting. If he won't do this even when faced with death then it's obvious he can't and must be a don. Don't sidestep.

[Myrddraal]

I'll Vote: Craterus for now. I think we should keep CR alive for now.

Jimbob please step forward. You claim to be in contact with 4 detectives, cross reference the detective results and check for inconsitencies, do they match CR's claim?

[Myrddraal]

All he has to do is explain exactly how he infiltrated the meeting. If he won't do this even when faced with death then it's obvious he can't and must be a don. Don't sidestep.

Good point, you still haven't explained that minor detail. You also realise the the faster you post this, the more convincing it will be. Louis' doctored notes a day late come to mind.


Current Tally: Based on Count Arach's tally in post 2687

Crazed Rabbit 5 (Sasaki, CA, Joe Monks, Prole, Kage)
Craterus - 5 (CR, EliteFerret, TinCow, Cowhead, Myrddraal)
Charge - 1 (Xehh II)
Gibsong - 1 (Craterus)
Elite Ferret - 1 (TP)

[Andres]

All he has to do is explain exactly how he infiltrated the meeting. If he won't do this even when faced with death then it's obvious he can't and must be a don. Don't sidestep.

Oh come on. Give him an extra day to fabricate fake pm's and e-mails.

Why are you always so cruel?

[TinCow]

Oh come on. Give him an extra day to fabricate fake pm's and e-mails.

Why are you always so cruel?

You are a wicked, wicked man, Andres. Have you ever considered a career in law? :2thumbsup:

[Andres]

You are a wicked, wicked man, Andres. Have you ever considered a career in law? :2thumbsup:

https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/onschuldigfluiten.gif

*cough*

:creep:

[Crazed Rabbit]

I did explain it, several times to multiple people!

Here's the emails:
(note, the first are at the bottom)

Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 14:34:31 -0800
From: capo.org@gmail.com
To: don1_capodetutticapi@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Capo

I appreciate your caution.

But I remind you of the rules - no dead person can send off their role PM. Omanes was hung a while ago - and he would have had to give his PM to me before then. And assuming he set out on his pro-town path before his execution, why would I wait to contact you?

I have nothing urgent to discuss.

Don Cunni
- Hide quoted text -


On Feb 17, 2008 1:58 PM, Don Capi <don1_capodetutticapi@hotmail.com> wrote:

Not at all, dear Don Cunni.

It is just that you are late. We are contemplating if too late.
Don Stracchi has obviously gone pro town since he believes he has been betrayed by another family.
He could have given his pm to someone who shouldn't have one.

I am waiting for the other Dons and their reply.

You did however quote the wrong sentence (sentence no.2 in paragraph A), but I took it as intentional to see if I had the same pm.

Do you have matters of importance to discuss before this night's deadline?

Don C.

Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 13:37:43 -0800

From: capo.org@gmail.com
To: don1_capodetutticapi@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Capo


What is this? You respond to my first email quickly, but then cut off contact?

Is this some ruse or scheme to let the Corleone family lead the other mafia families around by the nose?

Or perhaps a plan for you to cement your power. It is adversity you desire, then so be it.


On Feb 17, 2008 12:29 PM, Vinny The Fish <capo.org@gmail.com> wrote:

Cunnio

"Your death is part of the victory conditions for the other Dons, and will also severely limit your families chance of success as creating a new Don is time-consuming."

So we see why anonymity is important.


On Feb 17, 2008 12:12 PM, Don Capi <don1_capodetutticapi@hotmail.com> wrote:

You need to answer the 4 questions outlined under before this conversation will continue.
In turn you might ask me something from your Don role pm...
Until then,

Don C.

1. Your family name.
2. The codeword in parenthesis in the first section (Victory conditions) - Answered
3. The third word in the first section (Victory conditions) - Answered
4. Quote sentence no.1 in paragraph A (General) from the section Powers & Responsibilities.



Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 11:51:25 -0800
From: capo.org@gmail.com
To: Don1_CapoDeTuttiCapi@hotmail.com
Subject: Capo


Greetings,
I have thought about your idea of a truce, so that we may not kill ourselves for the town. Of course, the victory conditions preclude us all from winning, but it is better that one of our noble families wins than the 'townies'.

"You are the boss of a crime family, and your goal is to take over Fatlington and become the Capo de Tutti Capi (Captain of Captains). To do this, you will need to eliminate all of the other Dons and establish a crime family that outnumbers the remaining Mafiosi and citizens of the town."

Salude! I look forward to collaboration with you.

As can be seen, I quoted the whole first paragraph of the Don PM, knowing the code words would be in there somewhere, and then quoted and got lucky for the 4th question.

CR

[LittleGrizzly]

Think ill go with TC idea and wait for a day to check out the result on... whatever her name is....

Vote Craterus

we selecting a director today as well ?

[LittleGrizzly]

Tally as of post 2737
Craterus - 6 (CR, EliteFerret, TinCow, Cowhead, Myrddraal, LittleGrizzly)
Crazed Rabbit 5 (Sasaki, CA, Joe Monks, Prole, Kage)
Charge - 1 (Xehh II)
Gibsong - 1 (Craterus)
Elite Ferret - 1 (TP)

[Crazed Rabbit]

If Makayane is not a Luca, please feel free to lynch me. But don't be an idiot and do so before then because Mr 'i fear what I can't understand' wants you to.

Indeed, Sasaki's arguments are full of holes.

For one, how can the Don PM be radically different, giving me no chance to infiltrate (which was a great boon to the town, and I shared info with Jimbob about it, and yet now I am close to dying because of it) and yet when I post my FBI role PM, Sasaki shrugs it off as 'generic'.

CR

[Kagemusha]

If Makayane is not a Luca, please feel free to lynch me. But don't be an idiot and do so before then because Mr 'i fear what I can't understand' wants you to.

Indeed, Sasaki's arguments are full of holes.

For one, how can the Don PM be radically different, giving me no chance to infiltrate (which was a great boon to the town, and I shared info with Jimbob about it, and yet now I am close to dying because of it) and yet when I post my FBI role PM, Sasaki shrugs it off as 'generic'.

CR

Maybe because what was needed to get in the Don meeting was word from word accuracy right? And are the role pm´s the same as Capo I from word to word? No way. You are basically claiming that you got into iit by luck. Well that sounds hardly credible at all.:no:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I said your fbi pm was generic because it looked like you took the format to this games pm's (which has been posted publically) and added a bit from last game's fbi pm.

I don't find your email convincing but I'm willing to let it go until tomorrow. You want us to believe that the first section is exactly the same as last game, that the "codeword" was actually a code phrase, that this quote:



"Your death is part of the victory conditions for the other Dons, and will also severely limit your families chance of success as creating a new Don is time-consuming."

Is also exactly the same, and appears in section 2 (where the townie red text appears) even though Omanes revealed that the don pm has red text, and that Don Corleone believed you were testing him when you said it was from section 1. I find it extremely doubtful. You didn't have any reason not to quote those earlier.

[TinCow]

Maybe because what was needed to get in the Don meeting was word from word accuracy right? And are the role pm´s the same as Capo I from word to word? No way. You are basically claiming that you got into iit by luck. Well that sounds hardly credible at all.:no:

Sounds more like an incompetent 'Don Capo' to me. He didn't do a whole lot to validate CR's attempt to get in.

[TruePraetorian]

Unvote: Elite Ferret
Vote: Crazed Rabbit


Just read through the last 2 pages...

So far all i have seen ar numerous posts of the exact stuff i said earlier. People are popping in, voting with the crowd to seem unsuspicious, then fading out and waiting for the next night phase..we've done this every day phase so far, and at the last count more townies/neutrals (wiseguys) are dead then are mafia.

Everyone who is voting take a step back. I vote Crazed Rabbit because after reading the previous two pages, every accusation against him that seems plausible is denied or ignored by himself. That leaves everyone to vote for Craterus..

Can anyone please explain the charges on Craterus? Seems to me that its all a bandwagon..started by CR to distract attention from himself..read page 90. He is accusing Craterus of posting early and accusing, yet he is doing the exact same thing.

FoS - Craazed Rabbit

I would like to find out what went on at the meeting. AFAIK, to get in he must've had the Don's post to get in. Either that, or his "sneaking in" was actually not a sneaking in at all...for all we know he probably co-ordinated the meering himself.

Either way, where has bandwagoning gotten us in the past?

[Sigurd]

Just before everyone goes running un-voting CR.

I can't disclose who the real FBI agent is since I didn't before I was lynched.
But may I refer to things that happened before I was lynched:

Remember,
It was me who first claimed the FBI results were bogus.
It was me who first received parts of the FBI pm from the real FBI agent or someone close to him/her.
I repeatedly accused the JimBob/CR/TinCow clan of fabricating these results and got lies as answers.

Look at TinCow's post:


If we decide Sigurd is likely Don, and to go after him in the day phase as a lynch, one of you (Jimbob?) should post in the thread that you received results from the FBI detective, who investigated Sigurd twice and got the result that he was the Don. I can give you a believable result from Seamus, and assure you that no one else will (truthfully) claim the role. And if they do, we know they're mafia scum.

I have highlighted a little different than TinCow and show you that CR in this pm didn't know about the 1/36 and 1/18 investigations.
Note that the new FBI agent pm has these probability results ... and notably after I revealed them in my posts while I was still alive.
The quote is not mistakable. CR claims he got two guilty results on me. This would be quite illogical considering the chances of getting a result on a Don.

I congratulate the town for catching one of the Dons, one of the two who never made contact with the hitman.

[LittleGrizzly]

Im just curious as to how we have a specific role assiociated to the lady but in cr's published results i just seen guilty or innocent next to names...

Im not going to vote CR this round but he is looking very suspicious...

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Old capo townie:


Your basic mode for success is to vote to lynch Mafiosi, eventually removing the mafia threat from Fatlington and creating a town win.

New capo Townie:



You achieve victory by voting to lynch suspicious individuals and/or participate personally in their removal until such time as: a) all of the Mafia Dons, original and created, have been killed and b) the remaining townies and unaligned WiseGuys outnumber the remaining Mafiosi. Your personal survival, though important, is secondary to the overall success of the town.


Now, if you were trying to convince someone that you were a townie in this game, and they asked you to quote the third word from my second quote and you sent them the first quote do you think they would believe you? No. Not in the slightest. So how is it possible that Don corleone believe CR when he quoted the old Don pm, even if he is incompetent as TinCow suggests? It's not.


You mind sending us the link to the don board CR?

[Crazed Rabbit]

Denied or ignored?!

I've answered every single lame accusation here.

I can't believe this. Why can't we wait until Mak's role is revealed?

Sigurd, you're a filthy liar. Plus you didn't even read my PM:

Note that the new FBI agent pm has these probability results ... and notably after I revealed them in my posts while I was still alive.


Your results also include some chance (1 in 6, 1 in 36 for Dons) to determine that player’s role. Subsequent investigations of the same person are possible and will give you a 3 in 6 chance to learn their role (1 in 6 for Dons)

1/18 is not equal to 1 in 6. Gee, looks like you're caught lying.


Im just curious as to how we have a specific role assiociated to the lady but in cr's published results i just seen guilty or innocent next to names...

Im not going to vote CR this round but he is looking very suspicious...

Read the freaking role PM! Second investigations give a 1/2 chance, not a 1/6 chance, to identify the role, and GH has his role listed by him.

CR

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Denied or ignored?!

I've answered every single lame accusation here.

You always tend to skip over mine until forcibly reminded...

[LittleGrizzly]

Read the freaking role PM! Second investigations give a 1/2 chance, not a 1/6 chance, to identify the role, and GH has his role listed by him.

ok, ok, this was brought up by someone else in the chat, seen as i have no idea what an FBI role pm looks like i didn't really pay much attention to it as it means nothing to me.

The main suspicion i have left is the mixture of luck and incompetence which allowed you into the don meeting, im pretty sure you said everything to do with this so it just comes down to trust now...

[TruePraetorian]

Lame accusations? They aren't "lame". Instead, they are true accusations, that is why you so rigourously defend yourself.

CR, please explain, what was the third word? How did you guess it? Do tell us, oh "truthful" CR, how did you get into the Don meeting??

As Sasaaki pointed out in a post above, there is no possible way that you could guess all of the answers and get them correct..unless you yourself devised the meeting or you have borrowed someone elses roll PM...in which case you know a Don...and I doubt if you know a don that makes you pro-town.


Again:
FoS: CR