Capo de Tutti Capi - II [Concluded]

[Crazed Rabbit]

But I have answered them all the same.


Now, if you were trying to convince someone that you were a townie in this game, and they asked you to quote the third word from my second quote and you sent them the first quote do you think they would believe you? No. Not in the slightest. So how is it possible that Don corleone believe CR when he quoted the old Don pm, even if he is incompetent as TinCow suggests? It's not.

And yet my FBI role PM, which contains no flaws because it is the real PM, no minor imperfections anyone has pointed out, somehow is fake?

CR

[TruePraetorian]

Didnt want to edit as it might be pushed back, but read this ill make it nice and big for ya:


If you got into the Don meeting and have openly admitted it over and over again, then why haven't the Mafia killed you yet???


'Nough said. :beam:

[Crazed Rabbit]

TP- read the freaking emails!

Geez, I'm sick of being accused by people who haven't a clue what they're talking about.

CR

[Crazed Rabbit]

Didnt want to edit as it might be pushed back, but read this ill make it nice and big for ya:

If you got into the Don meeting and have openly admitted it over and over again, then why haven't the Mafia killed you yet???


'Nough said. :beam:

1) I only told pro-town people before Sasaki.

2) There's a truce, you :daisy:.

3) If I was a Don, I'd have a luca, making attacking me pointless.

4) The mafia thinks it's better to kill the townies before turning on each other.

That enough reasons for you?

CR

[TruePraetorian]

TP- read the freaking emails!

Geez, I'm sick of being accused by people who haven't a clue what they're talking about.

CR


And this is the Rabbit running out of excuses :laugh4:

CR, you say you're sick of being accused of people who lack the information right? Then why did you accuse Craterus?? To throw suspicion at someone else of course. But no, it backfired because everyone caught on..now you are running from Elmer Fudd and his rifle, silly rabbit.

Tell me, if you are not a hippocrate then why did you accuse Craterus?

[TruePraetorian]

1) I only told pro-town people before Sasaki.

2) There's a truce, you :daisy:

3) If I was a Don, I'd have a luca, making attacking me pointless.

4) The mafia thinks it's better to kill the townies before turning on each other.

That enough reasons for you?

CR


I like numbers 3 and 4 the best :beam:

If the Mafia would rather kill townies, then you are claiming to be a Don in that sentence...since you are saying "there is a truce"..didnt that only apply to the Dons? Now everyone "knows" your not a don..making you a townie with information...giving the Mafia prime reason to kill you.

Nice contridicting yourself.

EDIT: I like 3 also. Read his post carefully if i confused anyone. GTG, so ill reply to this liar later :laugh3:

[Haudegen]

1) I only told pro-town people before Sasaki.

How is it possible that Sigurd knew about it some days ago?

[Crazed Rabbit]

Apparently some pro-town dead people talk more than you'd expect.

:wall:


Then why did you accuse Craterus??

Why don't you read my post saying why I did so?


If the Mafia would rather kill townies, then you are claiming to be a Don in that sentence...since you are saying "there is a truce"..didnt that only apply to the Dons? Now everyone "knows" your not a don..making you a townie with information...giving the Mafia prime reason to kill you.


Yes, now. But not in the past. Sheesh.

CR

[Drisos]

Give it one day, people. There are other mafioso we can lynch right now. Do we really want to risk killing the FBI Detective?


This one is good advice..

Sigurd hasn't been a good boy either eh? And sasaki,.. where did his confirmed town status come from? Let's not rush on the bandwagon on CR. Impossible to tell which side is lying right now.. I say give it a day.

[Dutch_guy]

If the Mafia would rather kill townies, then you are claiming to be a Don in that sentence...since you are saying "there is a truce"..didnt that only apply to the Dons?


Uh what ? :inquisitive:

:balloon2:

[Louis VI the Fat]

The crappy thing is, both CR being a don and CR being the FBI make perfect sense. I change my mind about him every two minutes, have been for most of the game. I gave most of my opinions two days ago already, when I tried every sort of conspiracy theory possible, and I still couldn't figure it out.

The only thing that is certain in this game is that TinCow is clinically unable to tell the truth. Which unfortunately gets CR into trouble now, since nobody will take TC's word for anything. However, there are clever ways of finding out if CR is really the FBI detective. :yes:

I, for one, would not lynch CR at this moment. I still want to get to the bottom of this. Plus I'm going trough one of those CR = innocent phases at the moment.

[TruePraetorian]

Sorry, knew i lost someone..

I mean that he says there was a truce, right? The truce only applys to Don's not killing other Don's...not Don's not killing Townies who secretly act like dons and then post all the info..

As for the fourth sentence, he states that:

4) The mafia thinks it's better to kill the townies before turning on each other.

So declaring himself Mafia right there. If hes not, which he will say hes not trust me, then why would he give this as a reason? He is saying he is pro-town repeadtly, so saying "Mafia wont turn on mafia" means he admits this doesnt apply to him ("because he pro-town"), giving the mafia a viable reason to kill him.

[LittleGrizzly]

Sorry, knew i lost someone..

I mean that he says there was a truce, right? The truce only applys to Don's not killing other Don's...not Don's not killing Townies who secretly act like dons and then post all the info..

As for the fourth sentence, he states that:


So declaring himself Mafia right there. If hes not, which he will say hes not trust me, then why would he give this as a reason? He is saying he is pro-town repeadtly, so saying "Mafia wont turn on mafia" means he admits this doesnt apply to him ("because he pro-town"), giving the mafia a viable reason to kill him.

the last 2 sentences in CR's 4 sentence reason are both reasons that apply while he is pertending to be a don

I agree that CR is suspicious but those 2 setences made sense to me as he was talking about whilst pertending to be a don the last 2 would apply, this would be a weak reason to lynch him as it seems to stem from other peoples misunderstandings...

[TruePraetorian]

Oh, i read it as his explanation of why the Mafia hasnt killed him yet...but if it is his reason for his lack of Mafia attention then it is a bad reason.

[Ferret]

Sorry, knew i lost someone..

I mean that he says there was a truce, right? The truce only applys to Don's not killing other Don's...not Don's not killing Townies who secretly act like dons and then post all the info..

As for the fourth sentence, he states that:


So declaring himself Mafia right there. If hes not, which he will say hes not trust me, then why would he give this as a reason? He is saying he is pro-town repeadtly, so saying "Mafia wont turn on mafia" means he admits this doesnt apply to him ("because he pro-town"), giving the mafia a viable reason to kill him.

how do you know the truce only applies to Dons? Anyway didn't only two Dons turn up to the meeting, it would hardly be practical for them to arrange a truce with people they don't know the identity of. I admit you have a point but what you say also makes me suspicious of you.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

What's the link to the chatboard CR?

[TinCow]

Please use some common sense here. Surely you have all noticed the significant drop off in mafia attacks over the last few nights. This is the direct result of lynchings and vigilante hits coordinated by JimBob, Crazed Rabbit, and myself, with significant help from several other people as well. CR's information was a huge part in making this happen. Surely that is enough to warrant giving CR the benefit of the doubt for one day. Just one day, to wait for the results on Makanyane. Are you really willing to risk lynching a major town asset, when you can find out whether his investigation results are real or not with a very short delay?

I promise you, if the results on Makanyane show that she was not the Tataglia Luca, I will vote for CR to be lynched myself.

[TruePraetorian]

how do you know the truce only applies to Dons? Anyway didn't only two Dons turn up to the meeting, it would hardly be practical for them to arrange a truce with people they don't know the identity of. I admit you have a point but what you say also makes me suspicious of you.

I assume since its a Don meeting only the Don's had the truce..why would they declare a "im not gonna kill you" pact if one of the people attending betrayed them? Point being, if someone snuck into some government meeting and got secret information i doubt that the government would let them off easy..

Elite, sorry for accusing you...with your lack of posting and then a random vote, i assumed you have been hiding and only posting to vote..with good reason seeing that you "selected" on the wrong day :laugh4:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Please use some common sense here. Surely you have all noticed the significant drop off in mafia attacks over the last few nights. This is the direct result of lynchings and vigilante hits coordinated by JimBob, Crazed Rabbit, and myself, with significant help from several other people as well. CR's information was a huge part in making this happen. Surely that is enough to warrant giving CR the benefit of the doubt for one day. Just one day, to wait for the results on Makanyane. Are you really willing to risk lynching a major town asset, when you can find out whether his investigation results are real or not with a very short delay?

I promise you, if the results on Makanyane show that she was not the Tataglia Luca, I will vote for CR to be lynched myself.

No, that's pretty irrelevant. It's possible to find out if someone is a luca. Remember the tataglia family is on the chatboard. If the tataglia mentioned that their luca was a "she" then it's simple elimination. CR hasn't posted the link to the chatboard. There are other ways he could have come across information as well, but what you continue to ignore is that there is NO way he could have gotten into the meeting with the old pm. How do you think that could have happened tincow? You are making yourself sketchier and sketchier.

[Charge]

also..., if you not forgot Mak was "Tataglia, Rank Unknown" when JimBob posted results (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1838765&postcount=2208) firstly.......

[TinCow]

what you continue to ignore is that there is NO way he could have gotten into the meeting with the old pm.

I believe that email chain he produced is real. That email chain shows that Don Capo accepted CR's role, even though he made mistakes with it. If he accepted CR's role, then he would have admitted him. Someone is making a major mistake here, either you or I. Clearly it would then be possible for the mafia to make a similar mistake.


How do you think that could have happened tincow? You are making yourself sketchier and sketchier.

I put you in touch with CR myself, allowing you to get this information, because I was convinced that you were pro-town and wanted to bring you into the group. Now, because I am standing up for the person that I believe to be the FBI Detective, you call me sketchy? You wouldn't even have been contacted by CR if I hadn't successfully argued that you were pro-town in the first place.

Sasaki, think back to the information I gave you on the identity of another pro-town asset. An important one. CR has known the identity and role of that person for a long time. Why hasn't that person been killed? What Don in their right mind would let that person live one night, let alone three or four?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

A don that wasn't himself want to die? If he can succesfully impersonate the fbi detective then he's safe.


Someone is making a major mistake here, either you or I. Clearly it would then be possible for the mafia to make a similar mistake.


No it's not a similar mistake. I'm talking about how there's no way the don corleone mistook one pm piece for another.


Now, because I am standing up for the person that I believe to be the FBI Detective, you call me sketchy?

I have a hard time believing you'd be naive enought to trust him completely.

[TinCow]

I have a hard time believing you'd be naive enought to trust him completely.

Of course I don't trust him completely. The only person I trusted completely was JimBob, due to Glenn's reveal. I grew to trust CR over time because JimBob backed him and because I've interacted with him a great deal over the past couple weeks. Eventually, I felt the cumulative evidence was enough to trust him, so I did. I made a judgment call, just as you have done. I also don't find the arguments against CR convincing in the least. They are being distorted regularly by confirmed mafioso like Andres and Sigurd. CR is being misquoted, the facts taken out of context, and everyone accusing him is being incredibly hypocritical. He has so far answered every question you have asked (except for the chat room thing, which I expect him to produce whenever he gets back online) with answers that seem reasonable and evidence that seems real. Yet you brush them aside at a whim with reasoning that is just as poor-quality as you blame CR for producing.

Sasaki, I do believe that you are pro-town, but I certainly hope you've got big plans and lots of contacts, because you've just single-handedly nuked everything I had going.

[Makanyane]

I'm rather limited by being dead (thanks chaps) in what I can say but would like to point some things out to the town regarding CR's claimed FBI results:


A Luca appears “criminal” if investigated by a Detective or Made, but “guilty” only on the night of a killing even if they have participated in killings before.

CR says (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1845328&postcount=2725)


N3
Twilightblade = criminal

Makanyane = guilty

N5
Joe Monks = criminal

Makanyane = guilty N5, Tataglia Luca from outset of game.

Kills taken from quick reading of story thread:

Kills on N3
Glenn - Weather Balloon mafia
Beefy - Weather Balloon mafia
Pannonian - Ballet Shoes (Stracchi according to posts in thread)
Taka - Wise Guy group (think they were revealed in thread, not sure)
Zorg - Rose mafia (Barzini according to posts in thread)

Kills on N5
Chimyang - Rose mafia - (Barzini)
Kamikaan - Destiny mafia
Motep - Ballet Shoes - (Stracchi)
Rythmic - 4 killer vig squad - assume a few townies know composition of that...
Woad&Fangs - solo kill with Card

can anyone spot a problem - or figure out which two kills I'm meant to be guilty of on those two nights, erm especially if I'm meant to be the Luca staying at home protecting my Don?

maybe we're not giving these poor guys enough time to fabricate their evidence.

[LittleGrizzly]

As a mafia newb here my head is spinning in circles....

first off i hope craterus is guilty even though i have barely any reason to suspect him, my vote went on him as more of a don't lynch CR vote, so sorry for that.

Sasaki the one thing that leads me to believe the TC CR combo is thier steady stream of results they've given us have been fairly accurate although the last day or 2 has made them seem suspicious doesn't the days before somewhat count against this suspicion ? or do you have another reason to suspect the 2 ? (please tell)

How realistic is the possibility of a Don falling for CR's ploy, it seemed fairly possible to me, maybe a newbie mafia player would fall for such a thing....

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I've seen a whole lot of reveals. Many are fake--any mafioso worth his salt can fake a reveal. Even when you trust someone you should consider the possibility that they are a mafioso.

The only way I can see CR being innocent is if don corleone sent him to a fake board to fool him when he realized he wasn't the don. I think it's a distant possibility but that's one reason I want to see the chatboards.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

As a mafia newb here my head is spinning in circles....

first off i hope craterus is guilty even though i have barely any reason to suspect him, my vote went on him as more of a don't lynch CR vote, so sorry for that.

Sasaki the one thing that leads me to believe the TC CR combo is thier steady stream of results they've given us have been fairly accurate although the last day or 2 has made them seem suspicious doesn't the days before somewhat count against this suspicion ? or do you have another reason to suspect the 2 ? (please tell)

How realistic is the possibility of a Don falling for CR's ploy, it seemed fairly possible to me, maybe a newbie mafia player would fall for such a thing....

Mafia have detectives as well and will pursue the other families.

Mak makes a good point. From CR's alleged fbi pm:


“Guilty” includes Mades and Wise Guys on the night of a kill as well as any Townie who has ever been involved in a killing.


But where was it said that the barzini's were the rose group? Was that in the failed hit on andres when he was director? I have to look it up.

[Proletariat]

Unvote: Crazed Rabbit, Vote: Abstain

Not convinced yet, but need to catch up first

[Craterus]

unvote, vote Crazed Rabbit

...if voting's still open. Self-preservation tbh, I'm not the person you're looking for.

EDIT: bolding vote, hope that's ok.

[KukriKhan]

The only way I can see CR being innocent is if don corleone sent him to a fake board to fool him when he realized he wasn't the don.

How deliciously wicked that would be. If that happened, I take my hat off to that player.

vote: Craterus

Craterus, If we've (OK, if I've) been fooled by a false accusation, and you end up clean... my deepest apologies. However, your innocence, along with the results on Mak will prove or disprove C.Rabbit's claims. And if he turns out scummy after that, we'll kill him.

[Craterus]

When does the phase end? Current tally please?

[Proletariat]

Bah, no clue what the tally is and really torn on whether Crazed Rabbit should die. I find it preposterous that he could actually infiltrate the Don meeting the way it's supposed, but I'll keep abstaining since I have no idea at this point if my vote creates a tie, a double lynch or gets Crazed off. Have to get back to work so no time for a tally from me, sorry

FWIW, Crazed forwarded me the PMs he and I exchanged where I did in fact send him my old Donna role in CDTC1, but that's a moot point now anyway

[Craterus]

Well, the phase ends in less than 2 hours and the current tally (using LittleGrizzly's from a while back) is:

Tally as of post 2783
Craterus - 7 (CR, EliteFerret, TinCow, Cowhead, Myrddraal, LittleGrizzly, Kukri)
Crazed Rabbit 6 (Sasaki, CA, Joe Monks, Kage, TP, Craterus)
Charge - 1 (Xehh II)
Abstain - 1 (Prole)

[Sasaki Kojiro]

This is the 'rose' group. All coloured roses are from the same group, the Barzini's. So, these hits below are all from the same, rather powerful, family:

Louis, where did you get this? If it is true then it's proof that CR is lying about mak being the tataglia luca.

[Husar]

So, if I give decent pro-town advice, you are going to ignore it?

Tsk, tsk, tsk :no:
So if JimBob is lying and gives bad advice and wrong results we're supposed to listen to him? :inquisitive:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Ok, this is to all of you. Does anyone remember the text of the hit on andres from night three? It said "prego, don barzini", but I can't find it to see if the killers left a rose. If they did then makanye can't be in the tataglia family and CR must be a don.

[shlin28]

Vote Crazed Rabbit

To tie it up

[Craterus]

Surely that is enough to warrant giving CR the benefit of the doubt for one day. Just one day, to wait for the results on Makanyane.

Based on this, I'm proposing that we vote for a 'confirmed' mafia - gibson or another, TinCow? I just see no reason why I should be lynched 'just to not lynch CR' (thanks Kage, couldn't have put it better myself).

Right now, you're killing one pro-town player to save another, ridiculous.

[TinCow]

If everyone would like to sitch their votes from Craterus to Ichigo or Charge, I will agree to that. Craterus has never been my first choice for lynching.

[Husar]

Funky game, CR could indeed be the FBI detective, can't really tell anymore. ~D

[TinCow]

Is there any way we could get an extension on today's vote deadline? There's a lot more ground to cover on this and I think we can clear it up today if we have a bit more time to work on it.

[KukriKhan]

Ok, this is to all of you. Does anyone remember the text of the hit on andres from night three? It said "prego, don barzini", but I can't find it to see if the killers left a rose. If they did then makanye can't be in the tataglia family and CR must be a don.

Earlier than n3, I think, because I remember commenting on the "Prego" bit on Feb 10th. scottishranger refers to it here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1829097&postcount=973), but I also can't find the original source. Very odd, it missing now. (Unless we're both blind). :)

[Louis VI the Fat]

Let's not lynch Craterus (yet), nor CR. There have been too many 'let's lynch first, ask questions later' already. We can't random lynch yet again when there are confirmed mafia on the loose: Ichigo.

And most probably one of the three of Haudegen, CA and TC.



To: Haudegen ; CountArach ;
CC: Seamus Fermanagh ;

Yet another night for our merry band of wiseguy vigilantes. Since Hiji is now dead, we will keep working down the list of early game guilty/criminal results. Tonight it will be Ichigo, who was found unclear on Night 2 and guilty on Night 5. The deaths on Night 5 were Chimpyang, Kamikhaan, Motep, Rythmic, and woad&fangs. As we all know, Motep was killed by the Stracchi and woad&fangs was killed by Sigurd. That leaves Chimpyang, Kamikhaan, and Rythmic. Chimpyang and Kamikhaan were killed by mafia, as shown by the calling cards left on the bodies. Rythmic was killed by two people, so they must have been Made/Lucas. Therefore, Ichigo must be mafia.

Please submit the following orders:


Quote:
TinCow, Haudegen, and CountArach will kill Ichigo. Have the three of you been killing before? Together?

In particular, what was each one of you three doing yesterday night? (I mean n8, not the present n9)


In conjuction with this, the news that Ichigo was mafia was revealed 6000 posts ago and should also answer SK's question below:

Louis, where did you get this? If it is true then it's proof that CR is lying about mak being the tataglia luca.A few posts under that one, I somewhat named my source: Ichigo. Of course, as mafia, he has an incentive to lie about his family.

here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1840017&postcount=2341)


Edit: if I remember correctly, the 'Prego, Don Barzini' bit was removed by Seamus. Seamus had forgotten that Andres as director couldn't be night killed. So the write-up was changed.

[Leet Eriksson]

Vote Crazed Rabbit

Recently revealed evidence points at CR either being don or FBI, but i can't believe the latter because there is no reason for him at all for him to reveal himself like that.

[Charge]

Earlier than n3, I think, because I remember commenting on the "Prego" bit on Feb 10th. scottishranger refers to it here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1829097&postcount=973), but I also can't find the original source. Very odd, it missing now. (Unless we're both blind). :)
I saw it meant "You're welcome Don Barzini" somewhere....:inquisitive:
will search if it is important..

ah, here
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1834038&postcount=1726
part 3

so it was 'favour' kill for Barzinis, hence they couldnt left 'rose'....

[KukriKhan]

Louis makes sense.

unvote: Craterus
vote: Ichigo

He also explains the missing "prego" remark. Not crucial, I think.

[TinCow]

Sasaki is right that there is something to be looked at in this rose/Barzini detail.

ajaxfetish has done a great job keeping the information organized. His most recent and up to date post is here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1843975&postcount=2606).

What we know from last night: A hit was launched on Ichigo. Either TinCow, CA, or Haudegen failed to show up for the hit and it failed. The same night, Haudegen was killed by the rose mafia.

Louis claims that Ichigo is from the rose mafia. The rose mafia also attempted a hit on CR on N6, but failed since only one person showedup. I also note for a fact that CR was the person who brough CA into the townie group and vouched for him. I can back this up with PMs to prove it.

Theory:
CR is the rose mafia Don. He infiltrates the townie group, posing as a detective. He then uses his credibility to infiltrate CA into the group. They both gain credibility by helping the townies kill off other mafia families. This credibility is boosted by having one of their own family members launch a hit on Don CR, but it is designed to fail by having only one person in on the hit. However, on N9, the townie target one of the roses, Ichigo. So, the roses sabotage the hit by having CA pretend to submit orders. They then turn and kill Haudegen at the same time. The keep me alive because I trust CR and CA and will vouch for them.

1) Can we trust Louis' info on Ichigo and the roses?
2) Is this plausible?

[TinCow]

Unvote: Craterus
Vote: Ichigo

The more I think about it, the more the above theory makes sense. If CR is a Don, lynching him will have no impact on tonights kills. We have to lynch a Made/wiseguy to do that. So, I'll go with Ichigo. That will also give enough time for the results on Mak to come out.

[Ferret]

unvote:craterus vote:Ichigo

[Pannonian]

Earlier than n3, I think, because I remember commenting on the "Prego" bit on Feb 10th. scottishranger refers to it here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1829097&postcount=973), but I also can't find the original source. Very odd, it missing now. (Unless we're both blind). :)
Andres was killed that night by the Barzinis, which was odd, since he was heavily protected by his director's bodyguard at the time. From post 1004 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1829270&postcount=1004):

Fermanagh was visibly confused and shame-faced at his report that morning. He recounted the events of the night before as summed up on the police blotter, but he botched things and had to do it twice – he’d even mentioned Andres as a murder victim! Andres had cleared his throat and Fermanagh had started over, finally getting it out clearly.

[Charge]

Andres was killed that night by the Barzinis, which was odd, since he was heavily protected by his director's bodyguard at the time.
hmm so what is the right translate dammit? :wall:

[Andres]

Ichigo has quit this game. He also quit other games at the same time as he posted in this thread that he was quitting.

Ichigio is not the type to post "I quit" and to come back after a few rounds saying that he'll continue play.

But I'm a scumbag off course :shame:

Go ahead, lynch somebody who's going to get WoG'ed sooner or later in the game. As a pro mafia player, this is exactly what I want you guys to do: waste a lynch :2thumbsup:

~:joker:

[Drisos]

Go forth als lynch people like Ichigo!, for now at least. :balloon2:


Ichigo has quit this game.

Post number? I don't believe you.

I haven't been paying close attention... but others have. If this would've been true they would've picked up..

[Craterus]

Is it possible that Ichigo was one of the Stracchi recruits? He posted 'I quit.' soon after DG got lynched IIRC. This would explain Andres' interest in his survival.

[KukriKhan]

With 20 minutes to go 'til deadline, the CR votes are made by Sasaki (who said he'd let him live one more day, but hasn't changed his vote yet) and people accused of being "guilty" or "criminal".

This alone is beginning to lend some credibility to CR's denial of don-dom/assertion of FBI-ness.

Uncommitted voters should decide and cast their ballots quickly.

[Andres]

Post number? I don't believe you.


Post 2332. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1839708&postcount=2332)

[TinCow]

If Ichigo is so unimportant, why did one of last night's vig group betray the others? If he was unimportant, they would have just killed him.

[Ferret]

Post 2332. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1839708&postcount=2332)

lol the buildup to that was great :laugh4:

[Craterus]

What's the current tally?

I'm leaving room for the possibility of a Don CR having organised some last minute vote changes so my vote is sticking for now.

[Crazed Rabbit]

You've got 4 votes on you, I've got 8, and Ichigo has 3.

So you're in no danger. Why not just vote Ichigo?

Like this:
unvote: Craterus
vote: Ichigo

CR

[Craterus]

Ok ok. Not to worry. Just wanted to check.

unvote: CR
vote: Ichigo

[Crazed Rabbit]

Gah I'm going to die.

7 for me, 5 for Ichigo.

CR

[Csargo]

Vote:CR

Now will people plz stop PMing me. Thanks

[Craterus]

SF said up to 5 mins after the deadline, you might be ok if people change their votes quick.
EDIT: Ok, so he didn't quit.

[TinCow]

Just getting this stuff out there for consideration. It is in txt download format because my inbox has required emptying twice.


================================================================================
From : Crazed Rabbit
To :
Date : 2008-02-19 15:50
Title : Capo I Important
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is CountArach part of our group?

I don't have time to type up why, but any info you have on him is important.

Thanks,
CR


================================================================================
From : Crazed Rabbit
To :
Date : 2008-02-19 16:22
Title : Re: Capo I Important
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On CA-
Apparently the mafia wants him dead. He appears to be a pro-town role and maybe a doctor.

He should be one of our highest priorities to protect tonight.

CR

Note: CA is a wiseguy. This is confirmed.


================================================================================
From : Crazed Rabbit
To :
Date : 2008-02-20 02:13
Title : Capo II Regarding Don Corleone
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[...]

PS - I confirmed CA as a pro-town role and got Husar to put a protection group on him.

Ultimate irony... I actually accused CR of being Don Barzini because he didn't suspect Prole. My opinion of Prole changed when it was shown that she was protected by a surgeon. This game makes my head spin sometimes:


================================================================================
From : Crazed Rabbit
To :
Date : 2008-02-20 14:58
Title : Re: Day 6 Plan
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wow. I can't believe you doubt me.

I am admit I have nostalgic feelings of Capo I, when Prole was my Don and the white glove mafia came so close to winning.

She was attacked by the yellow rose mafia once, the Stacci remants once, and twice by the lone killer - the one who killed Glenn. The last two nights she hasn't been attacked by mafia, but by the lone killer.

But I see your point. List here with the others as a Don.

CR

If Prole was town, that would mean that she somehow found a Doctor/Surgeon who dedicated himself to protecting her three nights in a row. That's a pretty major level of protection. The doctor would have to be convinced she was absolutely essential to the town to give that kind of help. At the same time, what are the odds that someone with that important a pro-town role is able to spread the news well enough to recruit said dedicated Doctor, but yet stay completely off of the radar of well known townies like JimBob and myself? Why wouldn't she at least contact JimBob and offer to help now that she knows for sure that he is pro-town?

Sorry, Prole is definitely mafia, and given her innocent result and consistent failure to die due to 1 protector, she is obviously a Don. Clearly the other mob families also believe she is a Don, since they keep attacking her.

Your failure to see how blatantly obvious this is worries me greatly. Perhaps there is something to Louis statements about you being Barzini.


I have to disagree with Prole being a don.

Being attacked is not a crime. Based on earlier communication with her I have reason to believe she's a pro-town role. But I could be wrong. *sighs*

Why do we think Craterus is a don? Because he was protected? Reasonable, I guess.

Also, Mak is the Tataglia Luca.

CR

To: JimBob ; Crazed Rabbit ;

Contrary to my expectations, last night's results were superb. The vig hit on Factionheir was a success, our protection target was not attacked, and my plan to test TruePraetorian worked. I now consider him confirmed mafia.

I think it's time to ramp up the pressure on the mafia. The best way to do that is by exposing them so that the families keep killing each other, along with a concerted effort at lynching high ranking members every day and vigilante kills of lower ranking members at night.

I have written up the following summary of information, based on a compilation of information we have been provided with and some basic common sense. The highly incriminating evidence on Sigurd is omitted as requested by CR. I think JimBob should post this publicly, along with a request to be re-elected as Director, so that he can continue coordinating the town's efforts. He should follow the list up with a plan for today's lynching. I recommend picking ONE person and putting all the votes on them.

Mafia Members:

Sigurd Fafnesbane - Don Corleone - Investigated twice by an FBI detective
Makayane - Tatagalia, Rank Unknown - Investigated and found guilty on Night 3
Hiji - Rank and Family Unknown - Investigated and found guilty on Night 4
Dutch_guy - Stracchi Luca
Craterus - Probable Don, Family Unknown
TruePraetorian - Rank and Family unknown - Sabotaged vigilante hit on Tran on Night 5, attempted sabotage of vigilante hit on Tran on Night 6.
Charge - Mafia Affiliation Unknown - Investigated and found criminal on Night 3
Proletariat - Don, Family Unknown - Investigated and found innocent on Night 4. Survived 4 hit attempts, all with a single protector saving her. Has never aided the town in any way.
Twilightblade - Rank and Family Unknown - Investigated and found criminal on Night 4
Ichigo - Rank and Family Unknown - Investigated and found unclear on Night 2. Investigated and found guilty on Night 5.
Tran - Wiseguy or Made, Stracchi

[Crazed Rabbit]

We should have a vote extension.:shame:

CR

[TinCow]

I very much agree.

[Craterus]

Based on earlier tallies, this is what I've got:

Craterus - 3 (Cowhead, Myrddraal, LittleGrizzly)
Crazed Rabbit 8 (Sasaki, CA, Joe Monks, Kage, TP, shlin28, Leet, Ichigo)
Charge - 1 (Xehh II)
Ichigo - 5 (Kukri, TinCow, Elite Ferret, CR, Craterus)
Abstain - 1 (Prole)

[Csargo]

SF said up to 5 mins after the deadline, you might be ok if people change their votes quick.
EDIT: Ok, so he didn't quit.

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG YOUR WRONG YOUR WRONG.


Hi,

Please make a contribution to Crazed Rabbit's demise by voting him...
Don Cunnio is going down

That's just one of the PMs I have been sent. It's very annoying. :thumbsdown: I wanted it to stop, so I voted.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Voting is concluded, writeup will follow shortly.

[Craterus]

@Ichi: But you're still voting? Hmmmmmmmmm. :inquisitive:

[Crazed Rabbit]

So be it.

Crazed Rabbit

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Good.

[Csargo]

@Ichi: But you're still voting? Hmmmmmmmmm. :inquisitive:

You obviously aren't paying attention...:dizzy2:

[Crazed Rabbit]

Good.

You'll be singing a different tune when my writeup comes out.

CR

[Craterus]

You obviously aren't paying attention...:dizzy2:

Enlighten me, cos you're looking pretty guilty right now.

[Csargo]

Enlighten me, cos you're looking pretty guilty right now.

:laugh4: I've already explained I won't again. Hey, but I thought you guys already thought I was guilty? Does that make me guiltier? :laugh4:

[CountArach]

Wow, tonnes of activity through the night (It is now 8:30ish am). I wish I had've been around to unvote CR and wit for the results on Mak.

I just want to answer a question that was asked of me here:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1845604&postcount=2793

In particular, what was each one of you three doing yesterday night? (I mean n8, not the present n9)
I was awaiting orders from JimBob, but because JimBob was not there, he didn't get any orders out. TinCow decided to take over and got orders out to the group, but they arrived 3 hours before the deadline. It was about 2am for me, so I didn't get a chance to get my PM in. Hence the hit failed. I can bring out PMs for anyone who wants. The hit was going to be on Makanyane.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

This is main thread post #


"So they say theyll set me free if I plead quilty and let it be
but Im not the one who did their crimes so why should I keep taking their jives
Im done playing all their games…
when Im innocent and concerned of who I am and what I’ve learned
I’m not the one who did their crimes -- there’s no justice,
There’s just us blind justice screwed all of us theres no justice
there’s just us we need justice for all of us"
-- Agnostic Front



Sunset, Day Ten

JimBob visibly scowled as he looked over the results. After a long pause, he spoke.

“Crazed Rabbit, you have been judged guilty by this committee of vigilance. Do you have anything to say?”

Rabbit looked back at JimBob, nodding <<No >> with a slow shake of his head. He then turned to scan the rest of the committee with a steely glare. TinCow stood quickly as though he would say something, but Rabbit merely held up his hand, shook his head <<No>> again, and walked from the room accompanied by Fermanagh’s officers.

The committee watched in silence from the windows overlooking the boardwalk as Rabbit was marched out to the far railing and a firing squad of officers was lined up opposite him. Rabbit refused the blindfold with a nod, but took the offered Camel. He took a few long pulls from the cigarette as the squad of officers checked their weapons, and brought them up to the firing position.

The fusillade rang out as Rabbit made one last long exhale. He slammed into the railing and softly crumpled onto the boardwalk.

“That concludes this meeting,” said JimBob. He continued, so softly that only a few could hear, “omelets and eggs; omelets and eggs.”

The remaining committee members filed out of the center and into the fading light of another Fatlington sunset. Perhaps tonight would bring relief from the sweltering heat…perhaps.


OOC

1. I’ll be out of town from about mid-day tomorrow until mid-day Sunday. An unplanned family trip resulting from a change in the wife’s work plans. I’ll take you PMs up to 1800 EST on Sunday 2 March 08 (2300 GMT). My write up will probably be published the following morning and we’ll resume 24-hour cycling from there. Sorry for the longer than usual session.

2. Vote Tally for Day 10

Crazed Rabbit = 7 (CA, Ichigo, Kage, Leet, Sasaki, shlin, True)

Ichigo = 5 (Crat, CR, EF, Kukri, Tinc)

Craterus = 4 (Cow, Joe, Griz, Myrd)

Charge = 1 (Xehh)

Abstain = 1 (Prole)

[TinCow]

I was awaiting orders from JimBob, but because JimBob was not there, he didn't get any orders out. TinCow decided to take over and got orders out to the group, but they arrived 3 hours before the deadline. It was about 2am for me, so I didn't get a chance to get my PM in. Hence the hit failed. I can bring out PMs for anyone who wants. The hit was going to be on Makanyane.

I can confirm CA's statements about N8. I was expecting JimBob to take care of that group. When JimBob didn't appear, I sent out the orders, but it was very close to the deadline. Most recipients did not get them before the deadline, including CA.

For my part, I killed Tran with Haudegen and one other person.

[KukriKhan]

So, 18 voters on day 10.

14 non-voters, in a 28-hour window of opportunity.

Not voting:
BraveSirRobin
Caeser the III
Caius
Charge
Draco Leman
gibsonsg91921
Hiji
Ironside
JimBob
JubalBarca
norwegian nerd
scottishranger
Twilightblade
Warluster

Makes me wanna FoS that whole list. At least 10 of the 31 survivors are mafia; most likely more. To anyone making up hit lists: I'd start on the non-voters first, especially the non-posting, non-voters.

Fine piece o' work we've done today, if CR turns out to have been FBI. And we won't know 'til late Sunday. Bah.

[woad&fangs]

Not voting:
BraveSirRobin
Caeser the III
Caius
Charge
Draco Leman
gibsonsg91921
Hiji
Ironside
JimBob
JubalBarca
norwegian nerd
scottishranger
Twilightblade
Warluster
Twilightblade should be killed.
Scotty is a townie trying to turn mafia. He's a good kill for later.
Jimbob is gone for some reason and he's protown so he shouldn't be killed.
Caius has been on the .Org so he doesn't have an excuse.
I thought that we lynched Hiji?

[TinCow]

Charge, gibson, scottishranger, twilightblade, and warluster are mafia.
Hiji is already dead.
Caius and BSR are townies.
JimBob has been AWOL since 2/22, probably due to an unexpected RL event. I would not expect him to return at this point.

[Twilightblade]

Twilightblade should be killed.
Scotty is a townie trying to turn mafia. He's a good kill for later.
Jimbob is gone for some reason and he's protown so he shouldn't be killed.
Caius has been on the .Org so he doesn't have an excuse.
I thought that we lynched Hiji?

Oh and why is that? I have done nothing to deserve a killing that I know of

[TruePraetorian]

I think maybe because of that last second vote change on glenn.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

You'll be singing a different tune when my writeup comes out.

CR

Funny that you didn't post the link to the chatboard. Well I guess now your dead you can't.

[Myrddraal]

Bah, too late.

We should have sticked to Craterus. Sorry Crate, it's nothing personal, but the people voting for you were doing so to try to save CR, and not all those were available to change their votes to Ichigo (who turns up in time to save his skin I note, scum)

TBH, I'm very suspicious of those who kept their votes on CR. He gave a perfectly credible answer, but you weren't even willing to wait for either Jimbob to cross reference his detective claims, or for Mak's results to come through? We had plenty of mafia lynch targets, but you had to lynch a potential FBI agent, when nobody else PMd Jimbob claiming the role, and who has been giving Jimbob genuine mafia targets?

Those of you claiming he could have used a made to check his own results are forgetting that the FBI agent has 2 investations per night, he couldn't possibly have got them all from mades, and so a simple cross reference with the other detective results would have been enough to proove him FBI.

But you bandwagoned him, without waiting for evidence.

Extra extra strong FOS on those who turned up late, and gave 1 line reasons for voting CR, even after he'd claimed FBI.

The Scum in this town know they couldn't kill him at night, since he'd almost certainly be protected. Scummy scummy scummy scum.

[Twilightblade]

I think maybe because of that last second vote change on glenn.

It was a change off glenn if I remember correctly so how is that a reason?

[TruePraetorian]

dont think it is really...you being guilty is there opinion not mine..although i thought you were scummy for changing at the last second..but that was a while ago and i fergot you were even playing :laugh4:

Someone else wanna point me to why Twilight is guilty?

[KukriKhan]

JimBob said HERE (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1838765&postcount=2208) that one of his detective contacts got a "criminal" investigation result on T'blade.

[TinCow]

Twilightblade was found criminal on N3 by CR. There was no legitimate pro-town reason to be criminal at that point in the game. Unless Makanyane's reveal shows that she was not the Tataglia Luca, I still consider CR's investigation results credible.

[edit] Correction. There are two criminal results on Twilightblade. One on N3 by CR. One on N4 by a detective I will not name.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

TBH, I'm very suspicious of those who kept their votes on CR. He gave a perfectly credible answer, but you weren't even willing to wait for either Jimbob to cross reference his detective claims, or for Mak's results to come through? We had plenty of mafia lynch targets, but you had to lynch a potential FBI agent, when nobody else PMd Jimbob claiming the role, and who has been giving Jimbob genuine mafia targets?

Those of you claiming he could have used a made to check his own results are forgetting that the FBI agent has 2 investations per night, he couldn't possibly have got them all from mades, and so a simple cross reference with the other detective results would have been enough to proove him FBI.

Hi Myrd, first of all mades get 2 investigations as well on nights that they don't kill. And it seems moros got investigations somehow. I faked results pretty well last game.

Second, he never posted the chatboard and never offered a credible explanation as to how he gained access to it. It's clear to me he had the real don pm ergo he is a real don.

Third, if the barzini's really are the rose mafia then makanye can't be the tataglia luca.

[Crazed Rabbit]

You seem awful sure of that, Sasaki.

When the truth comes out, the town will see that you deceived and mislead them for the benefit of the mafia. Who else, upon hearing of a person infiltrating the mafia meeting, demands the lynching of that person, who turns out to be the FBI agent?

When my post mortem comes, it will be evident Sasaki must be lynched for the good of the town.

CR

[KukriKhan]

Q1: In Capo I, how many detective-type characters were there (FBI, Rogue, and City)?

Q2: JimBob and TinCow claim to have had 4 or 5 feeding them info. Is that number believeable, or high?

Q3: To the best of anyone's knowledge, can an FBI detective kill, or only investigate 2 per night (he/she should have 18 results by now, then)?

[Csargo]

Bah, too late.

We should have sticked to Craterus. Sorry Crate, it's nothing personal, but the people voting for you were doing so to try to save CR, and not all those were available to change their votes to Ichigo (who turns up in time to save his skin I note, scum)

:laugh4: wrong :laugh4:

[KukriKhan]

:laugh4: wrong :laugh4:

In what way, Mr. Tease?

It certainly looked so.

"I quit" doesn't mean "I quit", for you, but instead: "I'm gonna lay low because the heat is on, and I'll pop up later, after people have forgotten about me"?

Someone told me that you had quit the game for personal reasons. That's fine, and encouraged. Heck 'real life' prevails for us all. And you certainly needn't share those personal reasons with us.

But I've seen you posting elsewhere the last couple days, but not here. So what's up?

[Csargo]

In what way, Mr. Tease?

It certainly looked so.

"I quit" doesn't mean "I quit", for you, but instead: "I'm gonna lay low because the heat is on, and I'll pop up later, after people have forgotten about me"?

Someone told me that you had quit the game for personal reasons. That's fine, and encouraged. Heck 'real life' prevails for us all. And you certainly needn't share those personal reasons with us.

But I've seen you posting elsewhere the last couple days, but not here. So what's up?

My vote didn't matter. If you look at the tally you'll see CR would have been lynched either way.

It had nothing to do with RL. I felt I was wronged. I probably won't play a game after this one again, but I figured that I would finish this game up.

Yes, I didn't get plan on playing again, but with the PMing then the accusations thrown at me I had to defend myself. I've been stuck here ever since, but I'll probably be killed or lynched tonight, so I guess it doesn't really matter.

[gibsonsg91921]

Whoa there, TC. For some reason I wasn't allowed ever into the Stracchis. Before you go killin' me, remember that I'm not mafia and can't kill. I would reccommend TwilightBlade as he is actually paying attention to this thing... I don't know any of the stuff since I had you and GH stop PMing me.

[KukriKhan]

It had nothing to do with RL. I felt I was wronged.

I see. Thanks for the clarification. :bow: Good Luck, mate.

[Myrddraal]

Cheer up Ichi, this is mafia. Half or more players per game get wronged. It's like GH acting hurt when he was accused at the beginning of this game, turns out he was a good lynch target. (Does that make yours a scummy post? After all, you are scum.) :wink:

So you asked people to stop PMing you. Who was PMing you, and what did they want? You to come in and vote CR?

Seems the mafia wanted CR voted lynched, just in case.

[TinCow]

Whoa there, TC. For some reason I wasn't allowed ever into the Stracchis. Before you go killin' me, remember that I'm not mafia and can't kill. I would reccommend TwilightBlade as he is actually paying attention to this thing... I don't know any of the stuff since I had you and GH stop PMing me.

For the record, I consider you the lowest priority mafia in the game. We could easily go several more weeks without targeting you, so you've got plenty of time to get back in the game and prove that you're willing to 'reform' if you think you can do that. I know you're a wiseguy, and I admit I never saw a PM saying that you had submitted your request to join the Stracchi. As far as I know, only Northnovas did that, and possibly Tran. If you are still an 'uncommitted' wiseguy, you could prove it by helping in town vigilante kills.

[Csargo]

Cheer up Ichi, this is mafia. Half or more players per game get wronged. It's like GH acting hurt when he was accused at the beginning of this game, turns out he was a good lynch target. (Does that make yours a scummy post? After all, you are scum.) :wink:

So you asked people to stop PMing you. Who was PMing you, and what did they want? You to come in and vote CR?

Seems the mafia wanted CR voted lynched, just in case.

It didn't really have anything to do with this game, but that's about all I'm going to say about that.

Sigurd and Charge, they wanted for me to put my vote on CR.

[John86]

I thought that we lynched Hiji?

For the record, I am dead.

[Caius]

Caius has been on the .Org so he doesn't have an excuse.

Yes, I've been in the org. I know i left watching this thread, I need more time. Please notice its 1:46 am and I'm awake.

[ajaxfetish]

Mafia status as of N9:

--Stracci. Don: Omanes A. (dead), Luca: Dutch Guy (dead), Made: Andres (dead), NorthNovas (dead), Former associated wise guy: LouisVI (dead), associated wise guys or mades: Tran (dead), Gibson. Calling Card: Pink ballet slippers. Victims: Drisos (detective, N1), Pannonian (wise guy, N3), Motep (wise guy, N5), Louis VI (presumed wise guy, N6), attempted hits on GH (N2, N3), Proletariat (N4), Craterus (N6), Sasaki (N7), Brave Sir Robin (N7).

--Corleone. Don: Unknown, Luca: Unknown, Made: Tiberius of the Drake (dead). Have called for a mafia truce through Tiberius and TosaInu.

--Tataglia. Family member: Makanyane (according to JimBob's contacts). Have responded to the Corleones' call for truce, according to TosaInu's second relayed communication.

--Barzini. (Rose group according to Louis), associated wise guy: Ichigo (according to Louis)

--Cunnio.

Religious Weather Balloon group. Don: Unknown, Luca: Unknown, Made: Unknown. Calling Card: Weather balloons and religious paraphernalia. Victims: Glenn (crusader?, N3), Beefy (townie, N3), The Stranger (townie, N3), GH (wise guy, N4), attempted hits on Glenn (N2) and Proletariat (N4, N5, N6?). I had this group pegged as the Corleones based on a statement by Louis. This last day he expressed doubt about his own statement, so I've separated the two. This family made an explosive entrance on night 3, but seems to have been a one-night wonder.

Rose group (Barzinis according to Louis, Tataglia if CR's results on Makanyane are correct). Don: Unknown, Luca: Unknown, Made: Unknown, associated wise guys if any: unknown. Calling Card: Rose and a preference for explosives. Victims: Zorg (wise guy, N3), Moros (N4, wise guy or wolf-type character), Chimpyang (townie, N5, black rose), Lt. Pinard (townie, N6), Haudegen (N9), attempted hit on CR (N6, white rose), possible attempted hit on Proletariat (N4).

Italian Destiny group. Don: Unknown, Luca: Unknown, Made: Unknown, associated wise guys if any: unknown. Calling Card: an Italian phrase (destiny is inexorable). Victims: Kamikhaan (townie, N5), ajaxfetish (townie, N6), Husar (townie, N7), Sarathos (N8). While the other families have been seemingly inert of late, this family, though late to start in on the killings, has been murdering consistently since night 5, and consistently hitting townies.

Omanes suspected Sigurd to be the don of the Barzinis, JimBob asserted he was the don of the Corleones. Sigurd claimed before his death to be the 'king of hearts' hitman, and others have agreed this is probably correct.



----------------------------------------------------

Musings:

xdeathfire and twilightblade have both fled to the police immediately after being attacked (xdeath on N1, twilight on N5). They may have a similar role, and this action would seem to suggest it's a pro-town one.

Lone killers with calling cards or consistent modi operandi
--.577 Webley. A rogue killer of unknown motivation. A single individual using the same weapon shot Kommodus (luca, N4), Woad&Fangs (wise guy, N5), and Makanyane (suspected mafia, (N8). Based on the type of victims, this killer may be protown.
--King of Hearts. Another lone killer (probably Sigurd) is operating, using knives and leaving King of Hearts playing cards. He participated in killing Woad & Fangs (wise guy, N5) and Louis VI (presumed wise guy, N6), and attempted a kill on TinCow (N7).

Charge looks like another lucky survival, whether don or townie.

Proletariat's enigmatic defender was absent from her write-up, and her survival the result of a missing partner. Was the surgeon's object eliminating EMFM or defending Prole? Who's attacking her now that EMFM no longer is?

--Society for Creative Anachronism. Successful hits on FactionHeir (made, N6), Northnovas (made, N7), Tran (N8), failed hit on Tran (N5) due to a late pm, and another failed one on Tran (N7) for unclear reasons, apparently luck, failed hit on Ichigo (N9), due to a late or absent pm from CA.

As Louis has mentioned, CR could very well have been either the FBI detective or a don. Makanyane's post-mortem will be our confirmation, and if she turns out to be the Tataglia luca, the Tataglias must be the rose group, at least following her reasoning on the guilty results and who was killing each night. This would also mean that the Tataglias feel pretty safe about their don's safety (or pretty reckless as the case may be), as they would then have sent their luca on killing missions multiple times.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Post-mortem results:

18 pro-town
Townie: Lord Winter, Beefy, taka, the Stranger, FahadI, killfr3nzy, Sapi, Xiahou, Rhythmic, molonthegreat, Chimpyang, Kamikhaan, ajaxfetish, Lt. Pinard, Husar
Detective: Drisos
Crusader?: Glenn, Rob the Celt

12 neutral
Wise Guy: Pevergreen, Hannibal, Pannonian, Zorg, GH, x-Danger, Moros (though Moros may be an unaffiliated mafia member), Motep, WarmasterHorus, Woad&Fangs, Xdeathfire, LouisVI (though Seamus write-up was not specific on his starting role)

7 mafia
Made: Tiberius (Corleone), Andres (Stracci), FactionHeir (family unknown), NorthNovas (Stracci)
Luca: Kommodus (family unknown), Dutch Guy (Stracci)
Don: Omanes (Stracchi)

Ajax

[PershsNhpios]

Has anyone yet noticed the tie between Sasaki Kojiro and Proletariat ?

They are lapping up the accusations of one another as if they were in each others arms!

Sasaki provided thin and faltering evidence against Crazed Rabbit, and after three seperate people responded and told Sasaki he was making a large mistake, Proletariat simply said,

"That convinces me" and voted for CR.

Why won't anyone take notice of these two?

It is so ruinous when the only players making an effort are those who play the criminals!
Is it because the Townies simply think they haven't got a pretty role, and so don't bother?

Perhaps this is simply too much for people to comprehend..

I am not totally updated, however, if I were alive still - I would know everything that was occurring, and probably a hell of alot more behind the scenes - as I did.

Pre-revealed, but ignored information on Moros.

Moros told me that he was given a role very similar to an, "Anti-Wolf", wherein he knew very well many of the pro-town roles.
However, he also spoke of another role similar to the Wolf, who knew of all the Mafia families and their members.

Each would attempt to help his contacts.

I have to admit, it seems as though Moros was the dark side rather than the light, in the knowledge of his Post-Mortem.

But I thought I might add that he was certainly no Wise-Guy..

Moros knew alot of things from the beginning.
---

I can say more, but rather, I can't - because I'm dead.

(This information was alluded to earlier).

[CountArach]

Pre-revealed, but ignored information on Moros.

Moros told me that he was given a role very similar to an, "Anti-Wolf", wherein he knew very well many of the pro-town roles.
However, he also spoke of another role similar to the Wolf, who knew of all the Mafia families and their members.
Neither of those roles would exist because they would unbalance the game to such a large extent that there would be little point playing. You were lied to.

[naut]

Sigh. I predict a win for a Mafia Family.

[PershsNhpios]

Not necessarily, and if they did not exist, Count Arach;

How did Moros know that Jimbob and I were Crusaders without being one himself?

Before any of the scandals and revelations I might add!
--

I predict a Mafia win too...
Perhaps because Townies get bored with such a long game without any special powers?

EDIT:

These two wolf-roles were said to be, "Dark", and, "Light".

Edit Again:

I seriously have misunderstood the inertia of the township.

Did I just read three pages of people saying something alone the lines of;

"Hmmm, Crazed Rabbit is probably the FBI Detective.. Are we actually going to lynch an FBI Detective?

I agree with Sasaki: Vote: CrazedRabbit."


F' God's sake! This must be a pushover for the mafia!

[Myrddraal]

EDIT: Ok ok. Bad day. No more drama from me, but please Glenn, try to be a little more polite and respectful.

[Husar]

Well Glenn, looks like we beat you! :laugh4:

[GeneralHankerchief]

:drama2: is good for the Mafia. :laugh4:

[Andres]

Nvm

[Pannonian]

TBH Myrd, when this much of the game is played behind the scenes, there isn't much a dead townie can do. I suppose he could PM the jimbob faction with some ideas, or suggest some plans in public that could let CR off, but it's really the fault of CR's backers who are still alive but inert that he got lynched. As we showed when we moved the votes onto pever, it is possible to make a concerted and effective campaign to shift votes from a candidate, but it takes persuasiveness and planning that Glenn hasn't shown in this game. In the lst round, that was only really showed by the people who wanted CR dead, so they deservedly got their wish.

It seems that, with jimbob inactive, only Tincow is left with all the contacts to rally his faction. He did a pretty poor job of it yesterday, so let's see how it continues. I don't think the town has the numbers to carry out publicly systematic plans any more, so it's pretty much down to the networks they have now, plus some intelligent reading of the data, which doesn't seem to have been in evidence so far.

[Northnovas]

It seems that, with jimbob inactive, only Tincow is left with all the contacts to rally his faction. He did a pretty poor job of it yesterday, so let's see how it continues. I don't think the town has the numbers to carry out publicly systematic plans any more, so it's pretty much down to the networks they have now, plus some intelligent reading of the data, which doesn't seem to have been in evidence so far.

Maybe TC is helping the "family". :2thumbsup:

[Moros]

Not necessarily, and if they did not exist, Count Arach;

How did Moros know that Jimbob and I were Crusaders without being one himself?

Before any of the scandals and revelations I might add!
--

I predict a Mafia win too...
Perhaps because Townies get bored with such a long game without any special powers?

EDIT:

These two wolf-roles were said to be, "Dark", and, "Light".

Edit Again:

I seriously have misunderstood the inertia of the township.

Did I just read three pages of people saying something alone the lines of;

"Hmmm, Crazed Rabbit is probably the FBI Detective.. Are we actually going to lynch an FBI Detective?

I agree with Sasaki: Vote: CrazedRabbit."


F' God's sake! This must be a pushover for the mafia!

Who gave you the criminal result on DG? and other correct results?

Anyway, what you think of me now is not important. You pro-town guys should look out for mafia and become active. As I think most mafia are of the actove players. It's always more fun to have a special role ain't it not?

[TinCow]

The town is doing just fine, even with CR's loss. We have already whittled the mafia down a great extent, and it appears we're left with two families, each only capable of making one kill per night. We could certainly use any more townies that are out there who are willing to help on vigilante or protection groups, but if the town is "on the ropes" then the mafia is struggling to get up before the count hits 10.

Let's just not make any more moronic lynches, Mkay?

[Sigurd]

I might have been a little harsh on CR, the one I was convinced was the real FBI agent have confirmed that this is not so.

This means my conviction of CR's guilt has been turned.
However, he and Jimbob’s goons deliberately lied about two FBI results naming me Don Corleone. And this was all based on something flimsy as one of the participants in the Don meeting, a meeting CR infiltrated successfully, had a Norwegian ISP.

Either CR was the FBI agent, was lucky and got through the security, got into the Don meeting… but blew it all by lying about a poorly thought through and fabricated investigation.
I am sorry to say this, but it would have been better if you had stayed under cover and fed information to the pro-town. The possibility that I could have worked for the town was not excluded. (Can’t say more).

Or CR was Don Cunnio, infiltrated the pro-town, worried that he or someone close would be attacked by the hitman, fabricated evidence to get rid of him, but at the same go blew his cover by revealing a fantastic story about infiltrating the Don meeting and reading IP addresses.

Damn man… this is as crazy as the name.
Why didn't you give the link to the Don meeting for all to see? It could have helped the town.

[Andres]

Maybe CR was able to infiltrate the "Don meeting" because the one pretending to be Don Corleone was not Don Corleone?

Since this fake "Don Corleone" didn't have the Don pm either, it was very easy for CR to infiltrate said meeting...

Maybe it were just two townie groups fooling each other, thinking that the other group were mafiosi?

It's a possible explanation, isn't it?

A pity I come up with this after poor Rabbit got lynched.

I told you guys not to lynch the FBI detective :no:

Why does nobody listen to me?

* sigh *

[Husar]

I have another idea but I'm not sure whether it will help and I don't feel like telling it right now.

[Louis VI the Fat]

What bugged me about CR / Sigurd is: 'Sigurd turns up as 'innocent'. The 'Don Corleone' IP is registered in Norway. Yet, Sigurd is not a don, BUT he still has this secret mafia Hitman role. ~:confused:

What are the odds? :wall:

It seems like such a bizarre coincidence that I could (can?) not believe that there wasn't something fishy going on somewhere. I've tried every sort of conspiracy theory on it. Tried to look for motives, secret dealings, etc. I couldn't nail it. Currently, I think both CR and Sigurd are telling the truth, weird and coincidental as it is.

Accepting that, we still need to find our Norwegian don. I still FoS Leet Eriksson, Ironside, and all the others. I say we simply hang all Teutons just in case.

Andres knew that Sigurd was the Hitman before Sigurd revealed himself. Presumably, some other mafiosi did too. I bet some mafiosi had a ball bandwagoning both Sigurd and CR in the past two days.

***

Teh FoS:
Charge
CountArach

Oh, and a townie vig group attacked Charge last night, I believe? Why did they not step forward during the lynch, to direct votes towards Charge?

[Andres]

Hitman? What Hitman? Was there a Hitman role in this game?

~:joker:

[ajaxfetish]

Accepting that, we still need to find our Norwegian don. I still FoS Leet Eriksson, Ironside, and all the others. I say we simply hang all Teutons just in case.

just for the record, Leet Eriksson (formerly known as Faisal) is no Teuton, though he has adopted a Teutonic screen name.

Ajax

[Tran]

just for the record, Leet Eriksson (formerly known as Faisal) is no Teuton, though he has adopted a Teutonic screen name.

Ajax
Are you sure about that? Or are you just trying to cover your mafia buddy? :smash:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Oh yeah, sorry I didn't tell you guys before. I have relatives living just outside Stavanger and our whole family has been visiting them for the past month or so.

[TruePraetorian]

What does that have to do with anything?

[KukriKhan]

Oh yeah, sorry I didn't tell you guys before. I have relatives living just outside Stavanger and our whole family has been visiting them for the past month or so.

:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

[ajaxfetish]

Are you sure about that? Or are you just trying to cover your mafia buddy? :smash:
Apart from the part where I'm already dead and investigated as a townie, yeah I'm sure about that :laugh4: .

Ajax

[PershsNhpios]

Formerly known as Feisal?
Meaning the man who was one of the sons of the Sherif of Mecca, and supported by Thomas E. Lawrence in the Great War?
Good taste!
But poor sport in becoming an impostor to the man's name!

I am sorry for being rude, it was shameful to watch this game disintegrate because of the inactivity of one side.

Temporarily, because of my perspective, I forgot how active the PM conversations are - and how they lead to a loss of contribution here.

Which means it is very likely that, at this stage of the game, the only players discussing here are dead, or propagandist Mafia.

----

MOROS

I was truly surprised when such a suspicious post-mortem occurred in the reports, and it seemed as though you were the arch-enemy of a Norman Crusader.
Either that, or it showed that there was a , "Light and Dark", but that you were the "Dark".

You had not done anything to reveal a malicious intention, nor do I think you had one - yet - it does not seem as though you were this, "Light".

You of course can't say anything, and I can't say anything more - unless you wish to confirm what I have said, Moros.
I for one think you were on our side, but your post-mortem is strange and more obscure than even mine.

---

AJAXFETISH

Tell me what reson there is to suggest Proletariat is protected by a surgeon?

Remember how I was nearly lynched twice because I had one sole defender?

Yet no one has even mentioned, or suspected that Proletariat may be protected by a Luca?

By the way.. I can honestly write that I never knew for sure what protected me each night I was attacked.
The first night was due to my, "Luck", trait.
(Remember how everyone laughed at that? "Seamus wouldn't include that! Bollocks!")

Anyway, Proletariat has run out of luck, mine did after only two nights.

I haven't met a single player who claimed to be a doctor or a surgeon, but several that were detectives, or who knew detectives.
It is rather unlikely that Proletariat has a pet surgeon.

Nobody has even bothered to analyse her behaviour.

Frollock in oblivion!

[CountArach]

Nobody has even bothered to analyse her behaviour.
YOU seem to have plenty of time. YOU do the work.

[Moros]

Why so aggresive CA? What is it on this page that makes you so agressive? Did Glenn say something you didn't like? I hope it's not the mention of the roles that make you act wierd is it?

[Husar]

Formerly known as Feisal?
Meaning the man who was one of the sons of the Sherif of Mecca, and supported by Thomas E. Lawrence in the Great War?
Good taste!
But poor sport in becoming an impostor to the man's name!
Formerly known as Faisal and since you started the rudeness may I suggest that you better keep your mouth shut when you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about? :thumbsdown:

Not only do you keep attacking certain townies here, you also start calling someone an imposter for using his actual name as a nickname... :juggle2:

Sorry, but that's pretty poor sport on your side IMO.

[ajaxfetish]

AJAXFETISH

Tell me what reson there is to suggest Proletariat is protected by a surgeon?

Remember how I was nearly lynched twice because I had one sole defender?

Yet no one has even mentioned, or suspected that Proletariat may be protected by a Luca?

By the way.. I can honestly write that I never knew for sure what protected me each night I was attacked.
The first night was due to my, "Luck", trait.
(Remember how everyone laughed at that? "Seamus wouldn't include that! Bollocks!")

Anyway, Proletariat has run out of luck, mine did after only two nights.

I haven't met a single player who claimed to be a doctor or a surgeon, but several that were detectives, or who knew detectives.
It is rather unlikely that Proletariat has a pet surgeon.

Nobody has even bothered to analyse her behaviour.

Frollock in oblivion!
Umm . . . have you bothered reading the last 20 or so pages? These questions have all been dealt with in the thread in detail. Prole was under considerable suspicion, with luca and doctor being thrown around as the two possibilities for her protector. Her attacker seemed capable of attacking single-handedly and was repelled each night by a single defender. On N8 I believe, her defender managed to kill her attacker. Surgeons, unlike doctors and lucas, have a chance to not only successfully protect but also to kill an attacker, so it fits.

Of course the other possibility is that the attacker was a lone townie (as a single townie has a chance of dying in a lone attack). However, I'd be very interested to see what circumstances induced a townie to attack the same individual alone several nights in a row. It'd be suicidal. Also, I believe another player (CR?, Louis?) mentioned knowing the identity of Prole's protector and her role, and being determined to keep both secret. Overall, to me the evidence is against townie vs. luca and for special role vs. surgeon.

I think most of us haven't met anyone who claimed to be a doctor or surgeon. I suspect they'd prefer to keep their identities discreet, and don't know why they'd inform you.

As of N9, Prole was undefended against a new attacker. Perhaps her 'pet surgeon' just wanted to eliminate her attacker and has now moved on. I don't know. Anyhow, her behavior has been and continues to be analyzed very closely, thank you very much. You don't go 7 nights in a row being unsuccessfully attacked without drawing any attention.

Ajax

[Husar]

Also, I believe another player (CR?, Louis?) mentioned knowing the identity of Prole's protector and her role, and being determined to keep both secret.
*raises hand*
Uhm, I know I'm completely unimportant anyway etc. but that would be me...



As of N9, Prole was undefended against a new attacker. Perhaps her 'pet surgeon' just wanted to eliminate her attacker and has now moved on. I don't know.
There's a hint in the writeup, the attacker's buddy didn't show up so the attack failed anyway, I guess that's why there was no need for a protector to show up in the first place, the attack had pretty much failed before it even began...

[CountArach]

Why so aggresive CA? What is it on this page that makes you so agressive? Did Glenn say something you didn't like? I hope it's not the mention of the roles that make you act wierd is it?
I'm sick of Glenn telling the town what to do while not doing anything at all, even remotely, useful.

[Craterus]

The ignore button is there for a reason, CA. And it's really useful.

[CountArach]

The ignore button is there for a reason, CA. And it's really useful.
Found it. Thanks for the idea :tongue:

[Louis VI the Fat]

Also, I believe another player (CR?, Louis?) mentioned knowing the identity of Prole's protector and her role, and being determined to keep both secret.Not me. Probably some completely unimportant player mentioned it somewhere, don't remember. ~;)


Tell me what reson there is to suggest Proletariat is protected by a surgeon?

Remember how I was nearly lynched twice because I had one sole defender?The reason that suggests Proletariat was protected by a surgeon was Seamus write-up, which said: Proletariat was protected by a surgeon.

Back when you were nearly lynched, a single defender sounded distinctly scummy. As it turned out, lots of people are 'protected' at night by luck, single person protections, landladies and what not. Taka, Beefy, confirmed townies - all were protected by Seamus' 'throw of the dice'. We have now learned that a protection is not a sign of a luca in this game.

What's more, contrary to what you state, Proletariat is not suspected, but is currently the only confirmed pro-town player in the game. Her escapes were not the result of a luca, but of a write-up-confirmed surgeon. Note also that on the night of the succesful surgeon defense, there was only a surgeon - if there was a luca, the write-up would've said two defenders. Nor was there a luca last night. That's two nights confirmed without a luca. So of all the players who turn up as 'innocent', Prole is the one least likely to be a covert Don. :smash:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Note also that on the night of the succesful surgeon defense, there was only a surgeon - if there was a luca, the write-up would've said two defenders.

Unless the Luca realized what was happening, figuring (correctly) that it would be safe to go off killing instead of protecting.

:grin:

[PershsNhpios]

Before this post begins, I add that the following paragraph was written solely because it seemed to me as though Husar was attacking my post because he though I misspelt the name of the leader of the Arab Revolt in 1917.
Silly billy goat Husar! You will note that in my post I asked if he was referring by that name to the historical figure! You aggressive, silly billy goat!
Oh, and, sorry.

Alrighty tighty, the dead are rather easy to satisfy.

Husar, you are rather rash also in assuming that, since I spelt your dear, "Faisal", as, "Feisal", that I don't know what in the blue dairy cream I am on about.

Then you will of course, open your mouth as I close mine, and tell me why Thomas Edward Shaw wrote a book of memoirs roughly 700 pages long, and within that book contantly wrote the delightful known, "Feisal"?

I should hope he knew the man's name correctly!

Now, I apologise for my apparent attack, I have been PMed twice.

It does not seem as though Leet is offended, however, it is a firm principle of mine to honour the memory of those historical figures whom I respect.
And people parading underneath the birthright of those figures usually galls against those principles.

----

Away from the subject of the Arabs, and back to that of Proletariat.

I am satisfied enough, especially seeing as everyone seems to expect the dead to be analysing this for themselves!
I'll have ye know, I haven't much time, else I would of read the last twenty pages and discovered everything for myself!

If proletariat's surgeon killed the attacker, I care not, I'll leave it, but who was killed?

[Husar]

Eh, sorry, I was angry because of this part:

But poor sport in becoming an impostor to the man's name!
To me that sounds like a completely wrong accusation because you had no clue why Faisal chose that nick. If that's not what you meant, then I appologize. :bow:

Prole's defender killed Evil Maniac from Mars by the way.

[Caius]

And it seems that the other defender failed to show up.

[PershsNhpios]

'Twas an assumption, Husar, no matter! I could never picture anyone else named Faisal!

And are we all sure then that a player attacking a Don protected by a Luca has no chance of dying?

Nevermind, but as for Count Arachticus.

I gave information on two secret roles.
That is rather helpful, considering I am dead, and you are alive..

Some may say that such roles would unbalance the game, and thus not be included, but then, several people said that about several other private statements I made.

And those people were Mafia.

I help the town as much as possible in the ten minutes I appear for.

---

One thing I didn't reply to, Ajaxfetish, you said you did not know why people would claim to be doctors or surgeons.

Why would it be any less dangerous or helpful, for a doctor to claim their role in order to be more helpful and trusted by a person in protection groups, than for a detective to claim their role in order to be more trusted and helpful in their opinion of the guilty and the innocent?

[Caius]

Did I lost something important or Seamus isnt showing up?

Maybe all the PM's aren't sent yet. What a long nite...

[CountArach]

Seamus doesn't wait for late PMs. Probably just RL.

[Pannonian]

Did I lost something important or Seamus isnt showing up?

Maybe all the PM's aren't sent yet. What a long nite...
Post 2829 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1845785&postcount=2829), CR's execution scene.


OOC

1. I’ll be out of town from about mid-day tomorrow until mid-day Sunday. An unplanned family trip resulting from a change in the wife’s work plans. I’ll take you PMs up to 1800 EST on Sunday 2 March 08 (2300 GMT). My write up will probably be published the following morning and we’ll resume 24-hour cycling from there. Sorry for the longer than usual session.

[Husar]

Why would it be any less dangerous or helpful, for a doctor to claim their role in order to be more helpful and trusted by a person in protection groups, than for a detective to claim their role in order to be more trusted and helpful in their opinion of the guilty and the innocent?
First off a doctor in a protection group is a waste, unless we have less than 3 townies left and everybody else is a doctor. But even then the doctor can protect alone without the danger of someone not sending their PM in or anything like that.
And second, revealing in the thread would be pretty stupid because then the mafia would kill the doctor to prevent him from protecting people. Of course we could then protect the doctor but then we end up with doctors protecting doctors and everybody else dies. :dizzy2:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

This is main thread post #2898
An important addendum is found in post #2903


“Running through this neverending night
lost in space and time, beyond the light…
Just dare a look behind you and you'll see
the one who can now save you is me
I guide you on this lonesome ride
and if you trust in me you'll see the light”
-- Lonewolf



Summary, Night Ten


LittleGrizzly breathed a sigh of relief. Tonight’s thunderstorm had a different “feel” to it. Maybe, at long last, they’d get a break from this weeks-long hot spell and go back to some regular summer weather. He patted his coat, making sure the automatic was there and paused to adjust the line of his armor-vest. With all of this gear now more or less required in Fatlington, he’d appreciate a spell of cooler weather for sure.

This first shot came from above and behind, ricocheting off the van he was standing behind. Grizz broke quickly, moving toward the shooter. A burst of heavy automatic fire hammered into the far side of the van, the spot to where most would have fled seeking cover from the opening shot.

<<Good guess,>> thought LittleGrizzly. <<Gotta keep moving.>>

Griz’ whipped out his handgun and ratcheted off 4 rounds at the group of windows where he guessed the first shooter was hidden. He jogged to the right to put a metal post between his back and the 2nd shooter, who was moving out from the far side of the van to line up another burst from what appeared to be a BAR. LittleGrizzly tossed a couple of rounds that way too – sometimes the best defense is a good offense. He missed.

The BAR man opened up – shooting controlled three-round bursts and keeping Griz’ on the move. Try as he might, the shooter couldn’t keep a bead on LittleGrizzly long enough to hit him. LittleGrizzly changed magazines on the run and hopped over a low cinderblock wall to get behind cover. The BAR hammered a few rounds into the blocks but couldn’t reach Griz’, who fired back more carefully this time, hammering down the BAR man with a torso shot.

<<Probably armored,>> thought LittleGrizzly. <<But, then again, so am I…>>

A new weapon spoke from the windows where the first shooter had started the drama, and these shots – from a .50 caliber M2 Browning heavy machine gun – tore through the cinderblocks and hammered into Griz’s arms and chest. Despite the wall and the armor, he was wounded and unconscious when the BAR man painfully walked over to him. A single head shot ended LittleGrizzly. A red rose was dropped on the corpse.

Cowhead418 knew he’d been lucky from the outset. After dodging death just after the formation of the Committee, he’d been left in comparative quiet. Even so, he carefully looked around as he exited his favorite Tappy – caution was always called for these days. There was nobody around.

He’d only taken two steps when all 4 cars parked near that corner seemed to explode at him. Actually, large blocks of plastic explosive had been taped inside the doors of those cars where they faced the taproom door. The effect was as though 4 gigantic grenades had been placed in a semicircular arc in front of Cowhead. He was torn to ribbons by the gigantic pieces of shrapnel and a dozen patrons at the bar were injured as the door, windows, chunks of car door and a few pieces of Cowhead418 were driven into the bar itself by the force of the explosion. Two others died from their wounds along with Cowhead418.

The firefighters and police who responded moments later were surprised to find a large banner with a message in Gothic script draped between two windows above the shattered bar. The message read: “il destino &#232; inesorabile.”


Ichigo met his destiny while driving towards a late-night coffee shop. The car in front of him slammed on its brakes, causing him to slam into the car despite his quick reactions. Then the following vehicle hit him from behind, sandwiching his vehicle and keeping it completely immobilized.

Ichigo was already trying kick open one of the bent doors when the firepower began. Tommy guns, shotguns, even a Garand hammered at Ichigo and his car from at least four directions. Rounds found their way through the doors and windows and, eventually, through Ichigo as well. Despite the body armor and the reinforcing on the doors, Ichigo was wounded more than 30 times and bled out before help could arrive. Investigators later counted more than 400 bullet holes in the vehicle – not counting the ones that went through the glass.

Only one thing marred the “normality” of the scene. Sometime during the accident or the shooting – whether because it had been opened or because the trunk latch had been shot apart – the trunk of the car that Ichigo had hit had popped open. Inside was a banner with a short message: “Sorry, buddy.” Nobody could explain this.


At four A.M., Elite Ferret was soundly asleep when his apartment door was rent in two by some kind of axe. At least that was what Elite thought it sounded like as he shot bolt upright in bed and cracked his head on the headboard. Shouts were erupting from all of the apartments on that floor.

Ferret was reaching for his revolver in the bedside table when some kind of thin blade sliced down and through the upper half of his bedroom door. Ferret leapt out of bed and went to the window as a second slash tore off the top corner of the door. The window was open and Ferret starting to climb through when a heavy boot kicked the weakened door off its hinges. Ferret looked at the figure in the doorway.

Below the full facemask was a high-collared black coat with a silver sword-pin on the left collar point. In the hands of this figure was some kind of sword on a long wooden handle.

<<A glaive?>> thought Ferret, fixating on the deadly blade.

The ashenderei swung out, reaching for Elite Ferret, who dropped his grip on the window and fell the 20 feet to the bushes below rather than test the blade’s sharpness. He landed well, without breaking or spraining anything, and quickly made his way to the nearest police precinct. The officers did not believe his story until people in the nearby apartments confirmed it. Nobody had tried to stop the bladesman as he made his exit. Go figure.


Proletariat…

….slept soundly after a good dinner. She awoke better rested than she had in many a day.


Morning Meeting, Day Eleven.

“…and so that’s what we know happened last night,” concluded Chief Fermanagh.

“Now, for the results on those who died during this fight.” He paused again, and smiled -- dimples appearing on his round cheeks.

“You’ve done great work so far. Your lynch victim of Day Eight – Sigurd Fafnesbane – has been proven to have been one of the Dons of a local crime family! Well Done! Moreover, either vigilantes working for the town or scum killing off one another managed to take out more mafia! Makanyane was a mafia Luca and both Sarathos and Tran were WiseGuys rumored to have been part of mafia killing teams. If we could determine who was working with what family, it would be easier to sort things out, but all-in-all Fatlington won big that night. Keep up the good work!”

JimBob gave the group one of his rare smiles and then began to review the procedures.



OOC

See addendum of information in #2903.

Lynch Voting and Director Selection both for Day 11. This phase will conclude at 0900 EST on 4 March 2008 (1400 GMT).

Thanks for your patience with me on the long weekend session. The “neverending night” jibe as aimed at your host.

List of Players

Still Alive: (27) Brave Sir Robin, Caeser the III, Caius, Charge, CountArach, Craterus, Draco Leman, Elite Ferret, gibsonsg91921, Ironside, JimBob, Joe Monks, Jubal_Barca, Kagemusha, KukriKhan, Leet Erikson, Myrrdraal, norwegian nerd, Proletariat, Sasaki Kojiro, scottishranger, shlin28, TinCow, TruePraetorian, Twilightblade, Warluster, Xehh II.

Attacked: (33) Andres (N2, N3), Beefy187 (N1), Brave Sir Robin (N7), Caius (N3), Charge (N9), Craterus (N6), Crazed Rabbit (N6), Cowhead418 (N2), Elite Ferret (N10), Evil_Maniac from Mars (N3), GeneralHankerchief (N2, N3), Glenn (N1, N2), Ichigo (N9), Kagemusha (N6), Proletariat (N4, N4, N5, N6, N7, N8, N9), Sasaki Kojiro (N5, N7), taka (N2), Tran (N5, N7, N8), TinCow (N7), Twilightblade (N4, N5), Xdeathfire (N1)

Murdered: (30) Drisos (N1), Lord Winter (N2), Beefy187 (N3), Glenn (N3), Pannonian (N3), taka (N3), The Stranger (N3), Zorg (N3), GeneralHankerchief (N4), Kommodus (N4), Moros (N4), Xiahou (N4), Chimpyang (N5), Kamikhaan (N5), Motep (N5), Rythmic, (N5), woad&fangs (N5), ajaxfetish (N6), FactionHeir (N6), Lt. Pinard (N6), Louis VI the Fat (N6), Husar (N7), NorthNovas (N7), Makanyane (N8), Sarathos (N8), Tran (N8), Haudegen (N9), Cowhead418 (N10), Ichigo (N10), LittleGrizzly (N10).

Killed During an Attack: (1) Evil_Maniac from Mars (N8).

Lynched: (10) pevergreen (D2), Hannibalbarca (D3), Tiberius of the Drake (D3), Omanes Alexandrapolites (D4), Andres (D5), Xdeathfire (D6), Dutch_guy (D7), Sigurd Fafnesbane (D8), Hiji (D9), Crazed Rabbit (D10)

Removed from Play: (11) Fahad I (D4), Killfr3nzy (D4), x-dANGEr (D4), Sapi (N4), Warmaster Horus (N5), Rob_the_Celt (N5), molonthegreat (N5), johnhughthom (D8), Alexander the Pretty Good (N9), Big King Sanctaphrax (N9), Roadkill (N9)

[Crazed Rabbit]

“You’ve done great work so far. Your lynch victim of Day Eight – Sigurd Fafnesbane – has been proven to have been one of the Dons of a local crime family! Well Done! Moreover, either vigilantes working for the town or scum killing off one another managed to take out more mafia! Makanyane was a mafia Luca and both Sarathos and Tran were WiseGuys rumored to have been part of mafia killing teams. If we could determine who was working with what family, it would be easier to sort things out, but all-in-all Fatlington won big that night. Keep up the good work!”

Haha, Don Corleone! It turns out I didn't just try to catch you!

And if anyone still wants to call me a Don, call me Donnie Brasco.

CR

[KukriKhan]

So, Sigurd WAS a Don, and Makayane WAS a Luca, both reported only by CR (according to JimBob/TinCow), who we now know was either FBI or a Made.

To me, this raises the FoS to those who voted and/or failed to change their vote for CR.

By default, I must accuse the bandleader of the bandwagon, and:

vote: Sasaki

Maybe he can explain his doggedness in pursuing CR in the face of multiple doubts introduced. In which case, I'll switch votes.

And since JimBob is still tied up doing whatever he's doing, I'll go out a bit on a limb, and:

select: Proletariat

It seems she's important to someone, but no longer attacked every night. Still, with scum still in-town, I'd rather not trust to luck, but rather Fermanaugh's protection for her.

LittleGriz & Cowhead were obviously scum-hits (by the type of firepower, and calling cards). Ichigo less so, but probably a cross-mafia hit. E.Ferret's attacker's "...silver sword-pin on the left collar point...", sounds significant, and choice of weapons sounds crusader-ish, sort of.

I hope the remaining detectives can track down the bad guys soon enough for us to lynch or kill them.

[Proletariat]

Great. Sigurd's had a good idea of my role for a few rounds now, I imagine most or many of the attacks on me were by his group. The list of people who didn't try to switch their votes off of CR look interesting indeed

Charge is a good lynch

Vote: Charge, Select: Prole

[Tran]

So...the "Norwegian" that some people talked about turns out to be no other than Sigurd...

[Seamus Fermanagh]

NOTE

Fermanagh stepped quickly back into the morning meeting just before JimBob adjourned.

"I'm that sorry, but I forgot one sheet of my notes. The only one to have been killed while attacking was Evil_Maniac from Mars. He appeared to be another WiseGuy though we had no rumors of his having been part of a kill team. When we tossed his apartment we found a hidden room with poisonous snakes, fish, and a full chem lab as well as a collection of about 100 different scalpels....still don't know quite what to make of that. johnhughthom was an innocent townie."

JimBob finally gaveled the morning meeting closed, telling Kukri to put his ballot in the box and check it at the evening meeting later.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Oh, how I would love to rise from the grave to tell all...

[PershsNhpios]

Kukri!
You make no sense man!

You vote to lynch Sasaki, then SELECT FOR DIRECTOR the person who supports Sasaki Kojiro the most??!

Husar, I did not say the doctor had to reveal in public.

I said that I had several, 'detectives', reveal in private, but no doctors.
One needs not be any more secretive than the other.


KukriKhan you make no sense!
Why would you want Proletariat instead of Jimbob?
What makes you say that she has any special importance to the town at all?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Maybe he can explain his doggedness in pursuing CR in the face of multiple doubts introduced. In which case, I'll switch votes.

The way I saw it, there was no way that he gained access to the don chatboard by quoting the old pm. I still stand by that. The only way he could have been innocent is if he was given access to a fake chat board. But he refused to post the link. This to me was proof that he was not protown because posting the link if he was the don would lose him his only out (that he was given access to a fake board) and provide the town with valuable information.

Sigurd turning up a Don and mak a luca changes things a bit. I can believe Sigurd is clever enough to send CR to a fake board. At this point I have to believe he was the detective, though he went out of his way to lie and act suspicious. And the luca result also lends credibility though I don't see why ichigo would lie to louis about his family name.

If you are looking for someone to blame though, I'd like to point out that those who switched from craterus to ichigo did just as much to lynch cr as those voting for him what with deadline being so close.


I was part of the vig group on Ichigo last night. The plan was to include one of tincow and CountArach (I chose tincow) and then count how many people were described as showing up at the kill. The idea being that since in past games mafia could not kill each other if 5 people showed up instead of six it would indicate that tincow was a buddy of ichigo. Instead we have a banner in ichigo's car saying "sorry buddy". It's possible one of the others was ichigo's buddy but given the failed hit from last night I doubt it.


Charge seems like a no brainer lynch after last nights unexplained survival so I'll Vote:Charge. Jimbob isn't around so I'll Select:prole.

[Proletariat]

Glenn, where have I been supporting Sasaki? I went after him quite hard in the beginning when I thought there was something scummy about his voting and sticking up for GH. Since then I've backed off that and haven't focused on Sasaki much.

You admit you're not reading the thread, maybe you could give posting in it a rest until you've caught up.

JimBob (who knows I'm innocent, Glenn) is apparently no longer playing. He mentioned something about taking an Amtrak last weekend and hasn't read a PM since.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

The way I saw it, there was no way that he gained access to the don chatboard by quoting the old pm. I still stand by that. The only way he could have been innocent is if he was given access to a fake chat board. But he refused to post the link. This to me was proof that he was not protown because posting the link if he was the don would lose him his only out (that he was given access to a fake board) and provide the town with valuable information.

Sigurd turning up a Don and mak a luca changes things a bit. I can believe Sigurd is clever enough to send CR to a fake board. At this point I have to believe he was the detective, though he went out of his way to lie and act suspicious. And the luca result also lends credibility though I don't see why ichigo would lie to louis about his family name.



Scratch this, sigurd turning up a don threw me for a loop for a second but it doesn't actually change anything. I reread a bit and CR had every chance to post the link to the chatboard and never did even when repeatedly asked. There's no reason for a pro town player not to do that.

[KukriKhan]

Cool. Decent explanation. Thanks :bow:

unvote: Sasaki
vote: Charge

I stick with my Prole selection, tho' Glenn thinks its nonsensical. I haven't seen her support Sasaki in the past, oh, 8 days or so.

Rather, I've seen her be attacked repeatedly, but defended by a doctor/surgeon. Tells me she's not scum, but-town-friendly, and anti-scum enough for them to send a hit night-after-night (remember the snake attack n8?).

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Glenn, where have I been supporting Sasaki?

Last time you were accused he leaped to your defense, even when all the evidence was against you. As to you supporting him, I'd need to read the thread again.



Rather, I've seen her be attacked repeatedly, but defended by a doctor/surgeon. Tells me she's not scum, but-town-friendly, and anti-scum enough for them to send a hit night-after-night (remember the snake attack n8?).

Who says that was a Mafia hit?

[Proletariat]

Last time you were accused he leaped to your defense, even when all the evidence was against you. As to you supporting him, I'd need to read the thread again.


What evidence was against me? I can't recall anything that hasn't been explained over and over.

[PershsNhpios]

Nothing has been explained, I'm not that out of date.

This sudden attempt to get a bandwagon going on a director vote is very good, but I can smell it all the way from here on the east coast of Australia.

You and Sasaki have been in each others arms for the past two days, and Jimbob never mentioned anything about you.

Let's draw a ring around the rosy voters.

KukriKhan
Sasaki Kojiro
Proletariat

What reason have you pretty trio for voting one of your group, instead of Jimbob?

What evidence is there that proves Prolly's innocence more than Jimbob's?

If there isn't any, then that means you aren't voting her for the good of the town, but yourselves.

And selfish behaviour is criminal behaviour.

[KukriKhan]

Who says that was a Mafia hit?

Uhm, Seamus's addendum (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1848552&postcount=2903).

But you're right: EMfM= wiseguy, not specifically mafia.

@Glenn: you do realize, that your overt support of JimBob suddenly makes him suspicious? If your effort is to grant our absent benefactor additional days protection, I'm afraid you've come up short, mate.

I'm willing as I said, to "go out on a limb" and grant Fermanaugh protection to a character who seems, to me, to be pro-town, and anti-mafia. Nobody should get infinite protection, IMO.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Sasaki needs to die. He finds someone who voluntarily tells him about getting access to the don board, hunts down a mafia don, a mafia luca, and then leads the charge to get him lynched.

Sasaki is too good a player to make that whole thing a mistake - to ignore all the signs that I was a protown (what mafia don would tell Sasaki he was in the don meeting? Who would attack Andres because he knew he was guilty before Sasaki posted his guilty result? Who wasn't protected by a Luca when he was attacked?)

As for me not posting the links to the board - you posted before I posted the emails that all I needed to do was to post the emails and I'd live. I did - lo and behold they contained the old Capo I Don PM - and you still wanted me dead. I could've posted the link and you still would've wanted me to die. And since I knew you were not pro-town by then, I didn't want to give you any more information.

Sasaki needs to die.

Glenn - Jimbob isn't here. The town needs someone who's actually here.

CR

[PershsNhpios]

The town can think of someone far more trusted than Proletariat.

It isn't the town who needs Proletariat, it is Sasaki, Kukri and Prolly that need that position.

Don't give it to them!

Especially, CR, think, that your own target for the lynch - Sasaki - is most thoroughly supported by Prole.

If you can see this problem, support me in revealing it!

-----

Kukri, if you are Mafia, I am not your mate.

And if I want protection, and trust in the hands of the last Norman Crusader - who has already gone to great efforts to help the town - and you are unnerved at that, then you must be rather scummy.

---


But if you are so pure, Kukri, then make a case here in public to show why Proletariat seems to be pro-town.

What do we know about Prollytaaryat?

[Haudegen]

CR, how would it be harmful to the town if you had published the link to the secret mafia meeting place? The dons knew that they had been spied on there, they have probably already moved on to another place.

TBH, I shared Sasaki´s view on the day you were lynched. I don´t understand why you didn´t post the link.

But there is another issue. When did you (CR) tell Sasaki about the meeting? From what I gather, it must have been several days ago. Probably even before Sigurd revealed it in the thread ... Why has Sasaki waited so long before he made his case against CR?

[Csargo]

lulz good job wasting a kill Sasaki. :thumbsup:

[CountArach]

I was part of the vig group on Ichigo last night. The plan was to include one of tincow and CountArach (I chose tincow) and then count how many people were described as showing up at the kill. The idea being that since in past games mafia could not kill each other if 5 people showed up instead of six it would indicate that tincow was a buddy of ichigo. Instead we have a banner in ichigo's car saying "sorry buddy". It's possible one of the others was ichigo's buddy but given the failed hit from last night I doubt it.
It is a pity the plan didn't work. Rather than it saying 6 people showed up, it said at least 4. That doesn't help one bit. I do wonder what that banner thing was about though. As for someone else being part of the failed hit on Ichigo the night before, that can't be right because it was Haudegen, TinCow and myself who were involved on the first hit. So unless Haudegen was the scum (Which we can't rule out) it was one of the two of us. I'm going out on a limb and saying it wasn't me. However, like I said we can't rule out it was Haudegen, so TinCow may not be scum.

What was the reason we are lynching Charge?

[Haudegen]

CA,

I completely understand that you can´t be sure whether I was the traitor during that night. But I´d like to point out, that it was me who attempted to start a bandwagon on ichigo on the day before (day 9).

[Sigurd]

Ok... so it seems I were a Don.
Must have misread my pm :beam:

I assure you Prole, that none of the hits on you came from my family.
I knew your role and I might have disclosed it in the Don meeting. I guessed as to who your protector might be, but none of the families have made an attempt at him.
Husar might have been attacked because of information I gave, [OOC:sorry about that.]

Other than that, I must congratulate the town. You are doing well and might win Captain of Captains again.

OOC:
This has been a most enjoying game. It had a high difficulty level and I was really hard pressed a few times.

[PershsNhpios]

Hmmm.. I might start cheering on the Mafia too.

It seems to give one favour with the township in the public thread!

[Charge]

Well, lynch me if you want. What a perfect bandwagon, isnt it? 'Luck' means nothing at all you :daisy: , that sound more like random reason to lynch anybody except yourself and your buddies, even criminal result on N3 doesnt mean mafia. Too annoyed I didnt join their families perhaps :thumbsdown:

[naut]

I love Mafia games. :2thumbsup:

31 Players still alive, with many of those Mafia.

[TinCow]

Vote: Charge - Cleaning up the trash from the previous night. No more lucky escapes for you.
Select: Proletariat - No point in having an inactive Director anymore and it is important to keep Prole alive.

[Myrddraal]

I don't understand why there is a current bandwagon on Charge. What evidence is there that he's mafia, apart from a lucky escape? We've already seen that luck is not enough to point to protection, and we've had confirmed townies survive by luck. Is there nothing else to go on?

[Drisos]

Tincow,

Your're alive. Reveal more on Prole, please.

Furthermore I missed out on why charge is begin lynched.. we still have people like Kukri running around?? oh and sasaki needs to be lynched before the end of the game. definitely.

hmm, so Sigurd was a don, and CR was innocent.. that makes up slightly for my other big mistakes in interpreting/etc in this game. :balloon2: :2thumbsup:

:book:

[Makanyane]

CR was innocent..
I'm sure he shows up that way - but I'm not yet ruling out idea he wasn't another Don, till his results come back.

The facts still stand - his detective result on Sigurd wasn't a detective result it was the result of information gained in the Don's meeting.

The detailed results on me didn't tie up properly with the known facts in the thread..... so he knew I was a Luca, that could also have come out in the meeting. My Don could have revealed that information either accidentally or deliberately, if say someone told him I was one of the next targets....

I'm not pretending to have turned pro-town, but I dislike devious mafia working their way into town's trust and using that to sell out other families more than I dislike any other element in this game.

The town should still be careful before following anything else CR suggests before his full post-mortem comes back. It might not only be other families he's trying to sell out.

[KukriKhan]

I don't understand why there is a current bandwagon on Charge. What evidence is there that he's mafia, apart from a lucky escape? We've already seen that luck is not enough to point to protection, and we've had confirmed townies survive by luck. Is there nothing else to go on?

JimBob's post #2208 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1838765&postcount=2208) list of suspects from 10 days ago, seems to have borne out true, so far. Charge is listed as a wiseguy.

That's the last publicly published list we have.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Pray, tell what you did last night, Charge? :smash:

***

Was anybody with CountArach last night? Is that whole 'vig group infiltrant' thingy that started yesterday night sorted out?

***

Looks like Crazed Rabbit was right after all. All his lynchers are now suspicious. Some were no doubt sincere, some were most probably mafia. The voters: CA, Ichigo, Kage, Leet, Sasaki, shlin, TruePraetorian. Ichigo is scum. CA was already FoS'ed.

Here are CR's results again for your convenience:
N1
Investigate: Andres (Guilty) & Proletariat (Innocent)

N2
GeneralHankerchief = Criminal, WiseGuy

Moros = Criminal

N3
Twilightblade = criminal

Makanyane = guilty

N4
factionheir = guilty

hiji = guilty

N5
Joe Monks = criminal

Makanyane = guilty N5, Tataglia Luca from outset of game.

N6
LittleGrizzly = innocent

norwegian nerd = innocent

N7
Roadkill = innocent

Warluster = criminal

N8
Myrddraal = Innocent

Ironside = Innocent

***

Prole is pretty much confirmed innocent. The only people attacking her still are EMFM - her mafia attacker. And Glenn. Glenn's increasingly desperate posts make me wonder if there isn't maybe more to his win conditions after all than 'town victory'. It is clear Glenn and JimBob are crusaders. But is a mere town victory their sole objective, or is there more to that all-red role PM of theirs?

Why did the 'glaive' (blade) kill last night? Who is this single-person killer? Was it JimBob, 'the blade / sword'? 'Below the full facemask was a high-collared black coat with a silver sword-pin on the left collar point. In the hands of this figure was some kind of sword on a long wooden handle. <<A glaive?>> thought Ferret, fixating on the deadly blade.'

Why didn't you comment on this murder write-up a bit more, Glenn. It implicates you and JimBob, or is related somehow to all that weird crusaders / sword / blade / shadow / light stuff. Yet, not a word from you about it. Hmm...

All we know of the crusaders is that they are a secret society. Seamus: "Glenn is a strange case. On the surface he seemed a regular townie, but a thorough search revealed a small memento album with scrolls in Latin, a print of some French medieval tapestry and one photo of him in some kind of Crusader regalia. Along with some stray rumors about a secret society, we’re just not sure about him. We may never know the whole story.”

***

Well played Sigurd. Classic mafia stuff. :bow:

***

The 'Sorry buddy' banner in Ichigo's car sounds like simply a message from Seamus and nothing of relevance for the game.

[LittleGrizzly]

Gah! Had a good run, didn't think i would survive this late into the game, i would advise selecting prole for director with people being unsure on tincow and jimbob being afk

[TinCow]

I have more evidence on Charge, but I would prefer not to release it, because doing so might make a couple people targets. Needless to say, Charge is confirmed mafia and needs to be killed eventually. Given that the list of confirmed mafia is now relatively small, he's as good a target as any.

[Charge]

I have more evidence on Charge, but I would prefer not to release it, because doing so might make a couple people targets. Needless to say, Charge is confirmed mafia and needs to be killed eventually. Given that the list of confirmed mafia is now relatively small, he's as good a target as any.
Oh really??
I can say I have evidence on you or anybody else too. So who's right?

[TinCow]

Oh really??
I can say I have evidence on you or anybody else too. So who's right?

Me.

[Myrddraal]

Fair enough.

Vote: Charge

My thoughts.

This bandwagon on Charge, though worthy, is also good cover for mafia. A clear lynch target is good, a lack of discussion on other suspects is bad.

I think there is more to EMFM's story than we know, but I also don't think it's relevant now, that episode appears to be over.

[TinCow]

Myrddraal is correct. We should not stop discussing other people. I note that Cowhead418 was murdered last night. He was a detective and was working with JimBob. Here are all of the results I have from him. They are cut short because he did not send me any results after JimBob went AWOL:


N1:
pevergreen = criminal
The Stranger = innocent

N2:
Glenn = innocent
Crazed Rabbit = innocent

N3:
charge = criminal
ajaxfetish = innocent

N4:
Proletariat = innocent
Twilightblade = criminal

Note that Twilightblade is criminal. Along with his earlier sketchy last minute vote switch, he should be considered mafia. Since CR has been vindicated, his N7 criminal result on Warluster should also indicate another mafia.

[Myrddraal]

Well, seeing as we don't have a priority target, and at the moment we're voting for a wise guy, let's go for a double (or even, dare I suggest triple) lynch.

Unvote: Charge

Vote: Warluster

[TinCow]

A person who will remain anonymous has provided me with Cowhead418's results from N5 and N6:


N5:
Rythmic = Innocent

Myrddraal = Innocent

N6:
Norwegian nerd = Innocent

FactionHeir = Criminal

[Drisos]

Myrd, never a bad idea to lynch several, unless one has top priority.

But, are we as sure about warluster as we are about charge? Charge might mess up the tally.

Btw,

Has anyone considered yet the possibilty of Norwegian Nerd being a don? his mistake at the beginning of game made people think he wasn't town.. and twice investigated innocent..

btw, I still think TruePraetorian is mafia.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Uhm, Seamus's addendum (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1848552&postcount=2903).


Doesn't mean I was connected to the Mafia.

That being said, I am not attacking Proletariat, but I'm sure the town can do better than that for director.

On the other hand, Sasaki has made me suspicious occasionally in the past.

[Charge]

:rolleyes5:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

@CR: Did you pm the link to anyone?


When did you (CR) tell Sasaki about the meeting? From what I gather, it must have been several days ago. Probably even before Sigurd revealed it in the thread ... Why has Sasaki waited so long before he made his case against CR?

I was told just prior to posting in the thread.


It is a pity the plan didn't work. Rather than it saying 6 people showed up, it said at least 4. That doesn't help one bit. I do wonder what that banner thing was about though. As for someone else being part of the failed hit on Ichigo the night before, that can't be right because it was Haudegen, TinCow and myself who were involved on the first hit. So unless Haudegen was the scum (Which we can't rule out) it was one of the two of us. I'm going out on a limb and saying it wasn't me. However, like I said we can't rule out it was Haudegen, so TinCow may not be scum.

Yup, seems Seamus doesn't want to provide that kind of verification. I'm not prepared to condemn anyone based solely on the banner message and previous missed kill.


Was anybody with CountArach last night? Is that whole 'vig group infiltrant' thingy that started yesterday night sorted out?

I'm working on it.


Why did the 'glaive' (blade) kill last night? Who is this single-person killer? Was it JimBob, 'the blade / sword'? 'Below the full facemask was a high-collared black coat with a silver sword-pin on the left collar point. In the hands of this figure was some kind of sword on a long wooden handle. <<A glaive?>> thought Ferret, fixating on the deadly blade.'

A lone killer tried to kill TinCow with a blade, and W&F was killed with a blade. Though not a glaive. I thought a glaive was a polarm not a sword. Sigurd's claimed hitman was supposed to be responsible for those. Can you check JimBob's profile to see when he was last online? Could exonerate him.

[Ferret]

what kind of person attacked me? Never seen a glaive before lol.

vote:Warluster
select:TinCow

I still think TC is best for the town, he's helped us a lot so far, except you still let me be attacked by some glaive wielding maniac :clown:

[Crazed Rabbit]

Prole should be Director instead of Tincow.

She's more experienced at mafia.

CR

[CountArach]

Select: prole

I don't trust her entirely, but I trust most people less :tongue:

Vote: Charge

Now that I see the case against him, and seeing there are no confirmed scum still running around, time to bring him down.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Ok I was going to pm around and ask some people but I checked the rules and it's not necessary:

[snip]

edit: nevermind I misread something.

[TinCow]

Please point out the contradiction that you claim exists. I see no contradiction between that rule and my result.

Also, please tell me who else did not show up to the hit other than me. The report says 4 people. One was me, as you can tell from my result PM. Who was the other?

[shlin28]

Vote: Warluster

Surely a lurker with a criminal result is more lynch-worthy than a semi-active player with a criminal result?

Select: Prole

[CountArach]

Vote: Warluster

Surely a lurker with a criminal result is more lynch-worthy than a semi-active player with a criminal result?

Select: Prole
The lurker is likely to get WoGed.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Sorry, I think that was a misreading on my part.

edit: pm'd the explanation to you.

[TinCow]

The indications I have seen are that Ichigo may have had a special ability that prevented some of his attackers from showing up. This casts some doubt on the situation on N9 as well, though as far as I can tell, no one on the N9 hit got the additional text that I did on N10.

[Kagemusha]

Vote: TruePraetorian. According to JimBob´s list here, he has been actively sabotaging the town effort, while all we have against Charge and few others is a criminal result. Here is a link to original post of Jimbob:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1838765&postcount=2208

Also, Select: Proletariat. It seems she is the best choice for the director for now, maybe the town effort could do with bit a of a woman touch.:smash:

[TinCow]

The evidence against TP came directly from me. It was based on an error that Seamus made in one of the write-ups. I recanted my accusation on TP shortly afterwards, here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1839003&postcount=2254). AFAIK, there is currently no evidence to suggest that TP is mafia.

[Kagemusha]

Thanks Tincow. In that case there is no reason to vote for him. So lets turn to someone else who has been mafia associated before and has been lurking the last couple rounds. Vote: Scottishranger. How have you been lately?

[Kagemusha]

Gah! Forgot to unvote. Unvote and Vote : Scottishranger

[Caius]

Vote: Warluster

Better lynch a confirmed criminal

[Craterus]

Maybe I'm being a bit thick but why are we selecting Prole? She's not a confirmed innocent, AFAIK, and it would gives the mafia a shot at JimBob tonight.

For that reason, I'll FoS: Kukri for starting the run of votes on Prole. After all, the main argument seems to be that she's active and JimBob isn't. Why do we need an active director? On the off-chance we get a multi-lynch to work out, Seamus would probably just have them both executed if JimBob didn't turn up to decree something.

I'll vote once I've reread the last few pages.

[gibsonsg91921]

Vote: Warluster

If he ain't posting he's killing.

[Craterus]

That's interesting.

Post counts
gibsonsg91921 5
Warluster 5

What have you been up to, gibson?

[Charge]

oh last vote before I die...
Tincow's evidence against me is soo astounding so this round is definitely last .

vote: scottishranger

select: Myrddraal
he's better anyway than others for that place.

[Twilightblade]

select: prole

was'nt the 'glaive' weapon named an ashendari or somethin maybe that has something to do with it

[Craterus]

Ok. I'll vote: Charge, he doesn't seem to have denied being mafia yet and has been suspected for a few rounds.

Select: Abstain

[Kagemusha]

Ok. I'll vote: Charge, he doesn't seem to have denied being mafia yet and has been suspected for a few rounds.

Select: Abstain

I think you just broke a tie between Charge and Warluster. Why? Both are confirmed criminals, so wouldnt lynching both be better then just one of them?Il fix that for you. Unvote and Vote: Warluster

[PershsNhpios]

Let me tell you why I don't trust Proletariat.


Sasaki Kojiro and Proletariat are joined at the hip.

Everybody distrusts Sasaki Kojiro.

Everybody trusts Proletariat.

Now you tell me how that makes sense.

----

As for the secondary Crusader goals, the first, (Only able to allude here), was either similar or exactly the same as the Townie victory conditions.
Then there was another - completely harmless to the town - but created so that we Crusaders could never really trust anyone in the end.

---

Thank you, Craterus, for noticing this strange event with Prollywat.

But TinCow???

Why? Why would you join in on this?

[Craterus]

I think you just broke a tie between Charge and Warluster. Why? Both are confirmed criminals, so wouldnt lynching both be better then just one of them?Il fix that for you. Unvote and Vote: Warluster

I wasn't aware there was a tie. No-one has posted a tally for the entire round. Rather lazy, don't you think? So Kage, if you've got a tally, perhaps you should post it.

[TinCow]

Glenn: Prole was clearly protected by a surgeon on the night that EMFM was killed. That means that the probability of her being a Don is absurdly low. What else is required? As you'll note, CR also supports her. I trust his judgment. I would happily keep voting for JimBob, but he hasn't checked his PMs since February 22nd. He's likely to get WoGed any day now, so is not an ideal choice for Director. I prefer someone who can actually Direct.

[Craterus]

It's not a reason to rule her out though. You have to consider who the surgeon was and the relationship between them. Husar and Prole know each other in the chat and I think it would be fair to say they are friends. I think this is significant.

Prole only had to deceive him into protecting her each night and from that, most of the town now believes her to be innocent.

I'm not taking sides here, Prole probably is innocent but we can't know for sure.

[gibsonsg91921]

That's interesting.

Post counts
gibsonsg91921 5
Warluster 5

What have you been up to, gibson?

I've been mostly too busy to do stuff. After the KOTR kill group got foiled by TC, I haven't been really doing anything, just dropping in as time permits. TC, Northnovas, or GH can vouch for the fact that I was too busy to be in on any of the PMs except for the kill ones. Since that group dropped I just let go, buzzing by every now and then.

[TinCow]

It's not a reason to rule her out though. You have to consider who the surgeon was and the relationship between them. Husar and Prole know each other in the chat and I think it would be fair to say they are friends. I think this is significant.

Prole only had to deceive him into protecting her each night and from that, most of the town now believes her to be innocent.

I'm not taking sides here, Prole probably is innocent but we can't know for sure.

Prole was protected by a surgeon on N8. Husar was murdered on N7. If Husar was the Surgeon, he's really damn good at it.

[Joe Monks]

Select:Prole

Vote:Charge

Seems to be mafia.

Joe

[TruePraetorian]

vote: abstain

have to get my vote in, and dont want to mess with the tie.

select: prole

selecting someone else would be a waste of a select...

hope you all pardon the quick post...internet is going down again...

[PershsNhpios]

... Alright, I'm dead, so it doesn't matter so much to me anyway.

Forget my suspicion of Prollywat;

But everyone notice this, please.

JOE MONKS - A TYPICAL MAFIA POSTING STYLE

"""Select:Prole

Vote:Charge

Seems to be mafia.

Joe"""
----


Has anyone noticed that Joe Monks has never in the entire game given a proper argument?
Yet he always shows up in time to jump on the bandwagon and then disappear once more.
Look at his argument, "Seems to be Mafia."

This is typical of all his arguments.

And he has usually joined the bandwagons of INNOCENTS.

---

Has anyone got a thought on this?

(I am not simply grasping at obscurity, I have mentioned Joe Monks' lurking behaviour before, and it is increasingly sly).

[Joe Monks]

Hey Glenn

Lynched: (10)

pevergreen (D2), UNAFFILIATED WISEGUY - I voted for you because I thought you really were a Don.

Hannibalbarca (D3), WISEGUY [PERHAPS AFFILIATED WITH A FAMILY] VOTED FOR

Tiberius of the Drake (D3), MADE

Omanes Alexandrapolites (D4), DON

I seem to have missed the above too - I have been working pretty hard for the last 2 weeks.

Andres (D5), MADE Ddn't vote for him

Xdeathfire (D6), WISEGUY [PERHAPS AFFILIATED] Abstained here

Dutch_guy (D7), LUCA Voted for him

Sigurd Fafnesbane (D8), DON Voted for him

edit: searched my posts

Crazed Rabbit D10 lol no i didnt vote for the guy people said was the fbi detective.

I do not always join on the bandwagons of innocents[like this is some clearcut thing].
You are just annoyed at me for some reason like maybe I thought you were a don earlier.

Joe

[woad&fangs]

I used the thread search function to find all of Joe Monk's posts. They seem short but basically what I'd expect out of a new townie in a game this big.

[Joe Monks]

for the last three weeks or so I have been the relief manager at work. I have pulled two weeks of 70 hours each with not a single day off due to twats calling in sick.

Tomorrow is my first day off in 17 days.

I have spent most of my spare time just reading this thread to try and keep up with the game. I am a fast reader so I could easily read 3 or 4 pages in 15 mins while drinking some tea.

Any votes i missed were because I didn't actually have time to read between the phases so wasn't gonna vote.

I have two days off now so I am going to try and post some more.

Joe

[Tratorix]

Vote: Charge
Jimbob's list hasn't steered us wrong so far.

[ajaxfetish]

Sasaki Kojiro and Proletariat are joined at the hip.

Everybody distrusts Sasaki Kojiro.

Everybody trusts Proletariat.

So those are your reasons for not trusting Prole? I don't see any substantive evidence for any of them. Sasaki and Prole don't seem to be 'joined at the hip,' which by the way is a very vague figurative statement, not something you could either back up or deny with actual evidence. I think some people trust Sasaki. I think some people distrust Prole (as Kukri said, he was 'going out on a limb'). If you're going to make such strong statements, at least have some strong reasons to back them up. Most of your reasoning seems to be fervently held opinions you consider fact, but with which many of us disagree.

Ajax

btw, nightly summary to follow

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Host's Tallies:


Lynch Votes: (of 26)

Charge = 8 (BSR, CA, Crat, Joe, Kukri, Prole, Sasaki, Tinc)

WarLuster = 6 (Caius, Ferret, gibson, kage, myrd, shlin)

Scottishranger = 1 (Charge)

Abstain = 1 (True)



Selections: (of 27)

Proletariat = 10 (CA, Joe, Kage, Kukri, Prole, Sasaki, shlin, Tinc, True, ‘blade)

Abstain = 1 (Crat)

Myrddraal = 1 (Charge)

TinCow = 1 (Ferret)

[Sasaki Kojiro]

unvote:charge,vote:warluster


btw I should ask Seamus, does the new director get to decide in case of a tie?

[Twilightblade]

vote:abstain

To keep the tie

[PershsNhpios]

Fair enough Joe Monks, you will note that for the reason you gave me a neutral, composite answer and explanation - I withdraw my suspicions.

This is not true of the others who refuse to answer me and simply say I am grabbing at air, who draw my attention and further mistrust.

Ajaxfetish,

Browse back through the last few days in particular, you will find that Proletariat defended Sasaki quite steadily.
You will also find that not only has Sasaki supported Prole steadily in return;

He started this bandwagon to make her Director.

So it's not so much Prollywat.

It is why someone so mysterious and distrusted would want her Director.


Charge.

For some reason, I don't want you to die.

Why do you want ScottishRanger dead?

There have been previous suspicions on him.

[Ironside]

Been too busy to go through this tread more carefully the last few days, my mind needed elsewhere. Anyway as we seem to have a tie, then I'll keep it that way.

Vote: Abstain

Select: Proletariat

I'm fairly certain that she's got some special role and i'ts likely that it's pro-town.

[Myrddraal]

We have our double lynch! I think both targets are pretty good lynches, so if the mafia break it, we'll know who to lynch next round.

It seems like Prole is our director to be. Just to get my vote in:

Vote: Prole


Tally:

Lynch Votes: (of 26)

Charge = 7 (BSR, CA, Crat, Joe, Kukri, Prole, Tinc)

WarLuster = 7 (Caius, Ferret, gibson, kage, myrd, shlin, Sasaki)

Scottishranger = 1 (Charge)

Abstain = 1 (True)



Selections: (of 27)

Proletariat = 12 (CA, Joe, Kage, Kukri, Prole, Sasaki, shlin, Tinc, True, ‘blade, Ironside, Myrddraal)

Abstain = 1 (Crat)

Myrddraal = 1 (Charge)

TinCow = 1 (Ferret)

[Myrddraal]

Remember to post and update the tally.

[Pannonian]

Are you trying to lynch Prole, Myrddraal?

[Myrddraal]

Ah crap. Unvote: Prole


I meant:

Select: Prole

Tally (as before)
Tally:

Lynch Votes: (of 26)

Charge = 7 (BSR, CA, Crat, Joe, Kukri, Prole, Tinc)

WarLuster = 7 (Caius, Ferret, gibson, kage, myrd, shlin, Sasaki)

Scottishranger = 1 (Charge)

Abstain = 1 (True)



Selections: (of 27)

Proletariat = 12 (CA, Joe, Kage, Kukri, Prole, Sasaki, shlin, Tinc, True, ‘blade, Ironside, Myrddraal)

Abstain = 1 (Crat)

Myrddraal = 1 (Charge)

TinCow = 1 (Ferret)

[Sigurd]

How will you be able to lynch both with no director to make the decision?
What is the default option on ties? Lynching both or both go free?

[Makanyane]

Are you trying to save Warluster, Myrddraal?

I think your oops oh dear I made a mistake just invalidated your vote on him, if Seamus reads the rules as strictly as he did in the earlier case...


We have our double lynch! I think both targets are pretty good lynches, so if the mafia break it, we'll know who to lynch next round.

:laugh4:

I do love getting to know the other families.... :devilish:

[Sigurd]

Are you trying to save Warluster, Myrddraal?
*shhhhhhhh* :stare:

[Charge]

Looks like Myrd trying to indeed save WL? :inquisitive:

He voted prole and unvoted her, yet like his vote still stands on WL...

fixing...unvote: scottishranger

vote: warluster

[Proletariat]

These double lynches are the most powerful mafia tool there is

[Seamus Fermanagh]

This is main thread post #2991


“I used to be so certain
Of where my life was going
But now it seems that I've been flirting with disaster
Now I can see all my plans
They're dissolving in the wind
And now it seems it's time to find another road”
-- John Mark Thomas


Sunset, Day Eleven -- incomplete

JimBob seemed strangely “absent” as he went through the tallies. He’d been so avid for the destruction of the mafia that this new and “disconnected” left the tense members of the committee concerned that he was no longer the one for the job. Accordingly, JimBob was forced to step aside as director in favor of Proletariat. Selection choices had been clear, with almost all of the voting members selecting her.

The lynch vote was much closer and, as a result, was tallied and re-tallied to be certain of a clear result. Finally, JimBob stood holding the tally sheet and looking at the committee. Officers moved to flank Warluster and Charge.

“I am unable to get a true sense of this committee’s wishes. It is my preference to avoid a tie, unless we have a clear notion that such a tie is the actual desire of the committee. Accordingly, I am following Mayor TosaInu’s dictum that the resolution of the tie is my choice. I therefore choose to allow another round of voting and have that be the final decision. Should a tie occur at that point, I will consult with my successor as to a final disposition.”


OOC

1. Myrddraal's unvote of Prole left him, officially, with no registered vote as he did not re-vote Warluster. Picky, yes, but we're in the endgame so....

2. Current Director unavailable so far to PM me as to his wishes for a tie.

3. Data Backup occurring at 0900 slowing votes/participation.

4. Therefore, I extend lynch voting (only) to 1300 today (1800 GMT). All lynch votes prior that point will be counted. Here is my latest tally:

Latest Tally

Lynch Votes: (of 26)

Charge = 7 (BSR, CA, Crat, Joe, Kukri, Prole, Tinc)

WarLuster = 7 (Caius, Charge, Ferret, gibson, kage, Sasaki, shlin)

Abstain = 3 (Iron, True, ‘blade)


Selections: (15 of 27, complete)

Proletariat** = 12 (CA, Iron, Joe, Kage, Kukri, Myrd, Prole, Sasaki, shlin, Tinc, True, ‘blade)

Abstain = 1 (Crat)

Myrddraal = 1 (Charge)

TinCow = 1 (Ferret)

[TinCow]

Just to be clear: if the vote is still tied when the addition time period expires, Prole gets to decide?

[KukriKhan]

I'm happy with my vote, as it stands, though I have no preference which one is lynched (sorry, lynchee's, nothing personal). I'll be afk the next 10 hours, so you guys duke it out, if need be.

And Glenn wondered why we needed a more active director...

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Unvote:Warluster,Vote:Charge

I'm taking this:


2. Current Director unavailable so far to PM me as to his wishes for a tie.

To mean JimBob would have to break a tie, which isn't going to happen I don't think.

[Joe Monks]

My vote is so far on charge.

What is the evidence on warluster?

If they are both wiseguys then its a good idea to double lynch them. If they are not I don't fancy lynching a townie because that is one less player for the mafia to kill and I think that this one is going down to the wire.

Joe

[Drisos]

My vote is so far on charge.


it isn't you'll need to do a Vote: Charge in bold.. ~;)

[TinCow]

I'm taking this:

To mean JimBob would have to break a tie, which isn't going to happen I don't think.

I'm pretty sure that this:


Should a tie occur at that point, I will consult with my successor as to a final disposition.

means that Prole would get to decide in the event of a second tie. Hence my clarification question. In any case, I don't think there's much to worry about. Whether one or both of them gets lynched, it's a good day's work.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Unvote:charge,vote:warluster

missed that, well spotted.

[TruePraetorian]

Im still abstaining..can someone explain what both warluster and charge have against them?

EDIT: BTW, im abstaining in fear of ruining the tie.

[TinCow]

This is main thread post number


3,000!


--SF





Im still abstaining..can someone explain what both warluster and charge have against them?

Detective results mainly, with some extra stuff on Charge that doesn't seem to be necessary for the lynch:

Charge: Cowhead - criminal N3, Anonymous for their safety - guilty N10
Warluster: CR - criminal N7

Charge has not been part of any known town vigilante group, so his N10 result makes him mafia. Combined with the early criminal result, it's a pretty obvious situation.

Warluster's late result is way too late for any townie to be found criminal. It can't be an error, since it was by the FBI detective. The only way he could be pro-town is if he started as a wiseguy, went pro-town, and never killed anyone. Yet Warluster also has never been in any known town groups.