Capo de Tutti Capi - II [Concluded]

[Chimpyang]

I think after the whole Glenn thing, people are afraid to post anything about how they are thinking. See! I even feel paranoid about posting that!

[Moros]

I'm afraid you could be right. ~:no:

[KukriKhan]

Sasaki Kojiro makes a pretty good case. Still, it must be pointed out that Glenn's posting style before this game has always been... well: wordy. He's never used one word when 5 will do. And that always invites more scrutiny from readers, AND introduces more chances to mis-state what one intends.

On the other hand, Glenn did state that he had read through some (all?) previous mafia game-threads - presumeably to glean winning strategies and tactics - so he must be aware that blurting out support of someone, or pointing the finger of accusation, without some detailed explanation of rationale, BOTH paint a target on one's forehead.

Preliminary impression (ha! There's that 'pression' word.): Glenn gets no "newbie break" from me.

[Chimpyang]

Think it's definitely advantage to the mafia.....the town has a slower start at the moment.

[Csargo]

err... didn't he explain that in his post?

People please, I know most of us (hopefully lol) are trying to help town. But I sincerely got the feeling were going over the top. We're turning this thing into a chaos. This way we're going to make decent arguments fade to the background.

That's hardly a good reason for being paranoid.

Hardly, you have to put pressure on people and ask questions to get any sort of reading on them. With so many people playing you're kinda forced to go overboard. If not then people can easily just slip through the cracks.

[Moros]

That I know however, I still think that the way we're currenlty trying to unmask mafiosi or possible other bad guys (for example a serial killer) isn't really working that great.

[Ayachuco]

That's hardly a good reason for being paranoid.

Hardly, you have to put pressure on people and ask questions to get any sort of reading on them. With so many people playing you're kinda forced to go overboard. If not then people can easily just slip through the cracks.

And my sword just recoiled from the blow on Sasaki's impregenable armor of reasoning and hit me in the face.

That is exactly the reason why I'm paranoid (besides I'm always a little paranoid, must get that from my Mom), fanatical mobs that kill on sight. I feel like I have to be overly careful of my wording because of people going overboard to try not let anyone slip away unnoticed. I think I rephrased that sentence like 5 times before I posted it and it still makes me look kinda scummy.:shame:

[Louis VI the Fat]

Okay, so at first I was thinking SK is either paranoid. Or playing games, like he always does - even if we don't know which one yet. He probably is, however, he might be onto something here:

So I must edit to say I trust GeneralHankerchief because I believe he would be given a more moderate role this time - instead of a largely evil one such as in previous games.For someone who claims to have read up so much about .org mafia, I think it a peculiar mistake to think roles are assigned in CDTC instead of given at random. Seamus has even thanked random.org for the randomisation. Which I know you have read - since you posted three posts (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=98632) below the post where Seamus says the roles are handed out at random. (post #12, #16)

What is up with that, Glenn? We know you spell the rules, you say so yourself and you are obviously knowledgable about them. Is Sasaki onto something?
Originally Posted by Andres
pression

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn
pression

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moros
pression


Please... I know English is not our first language, but its pressure. Geez!!!You three been PM'ing lots? Andres and Moros are Flemish, 'pression' is probably a logical word construction for them. But Glenn is Australian, (I think?). Why the mistake? Been reading a lot of Flemish messages? Why is Moros jumping to your defense all the time? Connected?
Paranoia has nothing to do with it. Even while typing this reply, I am feeling a bit paranoid; more paranoid than usual since as a townie I have no idea who is on which side. Every word can be taken as a lynchable clue and every statement a double-edged sword that hit yourself in the head. The whole, you're all alone and screwed if you misplace your trust (esp. in the beginning with the vigilante/protect groups) can make anyone to some degree paranoid. Glenn was attacked and he reacted by lashing out at the provokers. Instead of defending himself and digging himself into a bigger hole b/c of his presumed "mistake" of jokingly being paranoid, he decided to settle it via pm. His offensive pm really wasn't that offensive or scummy, he just gave you a mental note that he would be keeping his eyes on your activities which is something a townie is supposed to do. However, he probably realized that he was being too aggresive and didn't want to come off as being a mafioso and offered a truce, albeit a shady one. Also, the fact that he probably couldn't persuade anyone that you were a mafioso coupled with his lack of evidence of your guiltyness (his assumption of your mafioso role came from your actions, however a townie would also be questioning people lead to his confused state) and prompted the truce. Everyone wants to live as much as the next person and so self preservation isn't neccessarily something that would point out a mafioso. I sure don't want to die but I know that I'm not a mafioso, also. Let us wait for night results before we start a lynching comittee, it will give us a more accurate picture of who we're dealing with. Right now I'm just going to be watching scottishranger and Lord Winter, (no hunches, just watching). Yes, I'm paranoid and proud of it.Huh?

Look, everybody and his dog will claim to be a townie, so as not to arouse suspicion. But to write an entire nouvelle vague novel about paranoia just to drive the point across that you are an innocent 'did you hear that, people: innocent' townie strikes me as very peculiar, to say the least.I am not ready to lynch any of the above on this, but maybe the odd lonesome detective out there could use it. Glenn, GH, Moros and Draco Leman have some explaining to do.

[Sigurd]

Those who have played with me and paid close attention to me in the past know that I've always fought against "newbie lynches"[...]

:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

Yeah like one of my first games... hmm who was it that made sure I was promptly undone?

[GeneralHankerchief]

That doesn't count. I was Mafia then. :laugh4:

[Drisos]

Gah! This is too complicated! Gah!

Gah! You're all scum! Gah!

Gah... I'll just lynch you all. Stand in a nice line and the wrath of my axe! :balloon2:

[RoadKill]

Gah! This is too complicated! Gah!

Gah! You're all scum! Gah!

Gah... I'll just lynch you all. Stand in a nice line and the wrath of my axe! :balloon2:

Eager to kill innocent townies? No?

[Csargo]

That I know however, I still think that the way we're currenlty trying to unmask mafiosi or possible other bad guys (for example a serial killer) isn't really working that great.

How could you possible know it's not working? That's kinda strange response.


That is exactly the reason why I'm paranoid (besides I'm always a little paranoid, must get that from my Mom), fanatical mobs that kill on sight. I feel like I have to be overly careful of my wording because of people going overboard to try not let anyone slip away unnoticed. I think I rephrased that sentence like 5 times before I posted it and it still makes me look kinda scummy

Indeed it does. If we let something slip away unnoticed, we'll possible miss something extremely important.

[Drisos]

How could you possible know it's not working? That's kinda strange response.

Because his methods haven't yet pointed him to himself :P

and Roadkill... the problem is, I seem to be the only innocent townie.. :( your reply is nonsense.. (even worse then mine)

[RoadKill]

Because his methods haven't yet pointed him to himself :P

and Roadkill... the problem is, I seem to be the only innocent townie.. :( your reply is nonsense.. (even worse then mine)


The only innocent townie? Arn't all townies innocent? Trying to tell me something?












:clown:

[Drisos]

:gah: :gah2:

btw, you were the first person to use the combination of words 'innocent' and 'townie'..

[The Stranger]

the list

Sasaki Kojiro (100000000000000000000000000000000000000000)

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Unselect: Kommodus
Select: Andres

[Csargo]

Unselect: Kommodus
Select: Andres

Director selection is over.

[TevashSzat]

Sigh, I have to read like 50 posts yet again only after a day. From what I can see, GH IMO is defensive of Glenn while SK is too aggressive which implies to me that all of them might be mafia which is entirely possible since there are so many mafia families.

The best course of action then, IMO, is to wait until the results for the night has come up because I really don't want to read like 100 posts the next time I log on. There is something as discussing TOO much

[Drisos]

There is something as discussing TOO much

in mafia? never! the more, the merrier!

yet, I'm still full of fear... wiseguys, lucas, mades, dons... all these creeps. they're just tooo much! :dizzy2: It would've been nice and simple to have just 65 townies 6-7 mafia and a few pro town roles or so.. :S

EMFM hasn't been aware of the time? It's night, by far..

[The Stranger]

discussing too much? what... are you mafia...???

[scottishranger]

discussing too much? what... are you mafia...???
I think he is just saying he is tired of reading so many new posts...

For shame! I look forward to reading all of the new posts, It makes things entertaining and gives us new looks at the game.

[TevashSzat]

I think he is just saying he is tired of reading so many new posts...

For shame! I look forward to reading all of the new posts, It makes things entertaining and gives us new looks at the game.

Yep thats why. I don't have too much free time now and so I would like to spend it doing things other than going through the 3 new pages of mafia posts every day.

Thats the reason why I was so inactive in the first Capo

[Csargo]

Yep thats why. I don't have too much free time now and so I would like to spend it doing things other than going through the 3 new pages of mafia posts every day.

Thats the reason why I was so inactive in the first Capo

Well it'll be the same tomorrow, so you can either do it or not pay attention there's not really any other choice.

[KukriKhan]

Yep thats why. I don't have too much free time now and so I would like to spend it doing things other than going through the 3 new pages of mafia posts every day.

Thats the reason why I was so inactive in the first Capo

Math. 79 players + 1 game master. If each makes only 2 posts per day, that's 160 posts to review.

Look at it this way: reviewing 160+ posts per day is good training for when you become a Moderator, whether here or elsewhere. Skill-building, ya'know? :laugh4:

[Craterus]

The number of posts is a little daunting but it would have been silly to expect less from a game this size. EDIT: Words of wisdom above ~:)

These are my (brief) thoughts on what's happened so far:
norwegian_nerd - Hmm. It was an odd thing for him to say so early in the game but perhaps it was a newbie mistake. Not too sure why this has faded from the spotlight, I understand it's to do with giving new players the benefit of the doubt but what he said was...worth looking into, I'd say.
Glenn - It seems to me like this guy is the scummiest so far. Probably the most worthy of lynching on current evidence (Sasaki's arguments seem sound to me) and I don't really think being a new player merits a second chance or anything, might end up regretting it later.
Vigilante Groups - I don't understand the logic behind these. At this stage, they're likely to do as much harm as good, especially with the possibilities for infiltration. As has been said, no-one can know anything definite about other players at this stage, it seems odd that some think it's not risky. The recruitment methods were also a bit intimidating I thought - maybe just me. I've been approached three times and I wasn't allowed to know an awful lot about what I'd be signing up for. Just seemed a bit suspicious to me so I'm watching The Stranger, pevergreen and kamikhaan. I'm thinking it's fairly likely that one of these groups has been set up by a mafia family so yeah.

Okay, they weren't that brief but I won't be online again for a while so I thought now would be a good time to make a contribution.

[RoadKill]

:gah: :gah2:

btw, you were the first person to use the combination of words 'innocent' and 'townie'..


HA! All townies are innocent. As they are not the mafia. It seems that this is your first game of mafia so maybe you don't know that. And maybe you have a role that is suspectable that made you think townies weren't innocent?

:inquisitive:

[CountArach]

Sigh, I have to read like 50 posts yet again only after a day. From what I can see, GH IMO is defensive of Glenn while SK is too aggressive which implies to me that all of them might be mafia which is entirely possible since there are so many mafia families.

The best course of action then, IMO, is to wait until the results for the night has come up because I really don't want to read like 100 posts the next time I log on. There is something as discussing TOO much
Try living in a different timezone. 150 posts overnight... :rolleyes:

It would've been nice and simple to have just 65 townies 6-7 mafia and a few pro town roles or so.. :S
That wouldn't be a true Capo game though :laugh4:

[LittleGrizzly]

ok so all i need is to be paranoid but trusting....

sasaki seems a bit agressive..

[Joe Monks]

Yep thats why. I don't have too much free time now and so I would like to spend it doing things other than going through the 3 new pages of mafia posts every day.

Thats the reason why I was so inactive in the first Capo

Yeah but it isn't three new pages every day :) I have been away for almost exactly 24 hours and its 7 pages.

Anyway I kind of have a question. If we lynch someone, do we find out their role after three days because of the gendarmarie or is that only for people who get killed by the mafia? Sorry for the noob question.

Joe

[ajaxfetish]

Yeah but it isn't three new pages every day :) I have been away for almost exactly 24 hours and its 7 pages.

Anyway I kind of have a question. If we lynch someone, do we find out their role after three days because of the gendarmarie or is that only for people who get killed by the mafia? Sorry for the noob question.

Joe
No harm in a noob question, but it probably belongs here https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=98632 so that Seamus will be able to notice it easily.

Ajax

[CountArach]

Anyway I kind of have a question. If we lynch someone, do we find out their role after three days because of the gendarmarie or is that only for people who get killed by the mafia? Sorry for the noob question.

Joe
From memory, we learnt their role in the first one if we lynched them.

[Northnovas]

Gah! This is too complicated! Gah!

Gah! You're all scum! Gah!

Gah... I'll just lynch you all. Stand in a nice line and the wrath of my axe! :balloon2:

:furious3:


Sigh, I have to read like 50 posts yet again only after a day. From what I can see, GH IMO is defensive of Glenn while SK is too aggressive which implies to me that all of them might be mafia which is entirely possible since there are so many mafia families.
The best course of action then, IMO, is to wait until the results for the night has come up because I really don't want to read like 100 posts the next time I log on. There is something as discussing TOO much

:help:

There are a lot of post:sweatdrop: Just catching up and I am not sure who or what is suspicious at this point other then 2 directors elected.
Are we back in the day phase waiting to hear what happened overnight if anything was suppose to happen in N1???

[Zorg]

The Australian timezone dosn't seem very useful in these mafia games lol.

Anyway, I've been reading through the topic and I've made a few assesments:

1. We shouldn't forget about Norwegian, I don't believe he has replied yet and I think if he dosn't he should be one of the first people the town lynches. Afterall, he isn't being particuarly helpful in any other ways (that I know of) and if given time we'll have more evidence about our other suspects (that is if they arn't killed).

2. Glenn seems to be a hot topic of contention, but I'm not sure the evidence towards him is as condemming as has been stated already. Thats not to say that the evidence isn't there, but I think we really shouldn't be so quick to jump to lynching him. The longer he is alive, the more likely he is to make more mistakes. Also, I'm sure some detectives are investigating him tonight, so I would like to wait until that information comes up (even if we don't know whether its true or not).

3. The Stranger seems to be quite quick to jump on people as being mafiosa, and on the whole (from what I've seen) he hasn't really provided any decent arguments or analysis. In other words he just seems to be present but not contributing, a little like how I would imagine a mafia to act.

4. Pevergreens mass group seems to be a bit of a risky venture, and the chances of infiltration sound pretty high. That is, assuming Pevergreen is innocent, if he isn't innocent he may be gaining the trust of many townies and misleading them from actualy helping the town. From what I hear, the sub-groups within his group have no member contact between them, and they are just expected to trust that Pevergreen is telling them to kill/save the right people. Pevergreen has set himself up with a lot of power, and if used for bad purposes I hate to think what could happen.

5. w&f seems quite scummy to me aswell. His aim to kill pevergreen on a "grudge" seems very suspicious to me, and although I don't know his motives I doubt those are them. Just seems very scummy (and dangerous) to me.

Thats my 2c for now from what things have stood out in the topic so far.

[Sarathos]

w&f seems quite scummy to me aswell. His aim to kill pevergreen on a "grudge"

And your concern for pevergreen is? Many people get lynched and/or killed for much less. Perhaps your just looking out for a fellow mafia buddy, because who is to say pevergreen isn't mafia and W&F isn't town and doing us all a favour?

[Zorg]

And your concern for pevergreen is? Many people get lynched and/or killed for much less. Perhaps your just looking out for a fellow mafia buddy, because who is to say pevergreen isn't mafia and W&F isn't town and doing us all a favour?

If you had read my post more carefully you would see I am accusing both of them of being scummy, there's no reason why they both aren't mafia and both have shown scummy tendencies. But in any case, I don't like the idea of townies taking these maters into their own hands so early on, and he hasn't said that is his motive anyway...


Oh and I forgot to add to my last post:

6. There seem to be a lot of players still inactive and the mafia could probably hide under that guise fairly well at the moment. I'm newer at mafia and I'm not sure what is generally done in such a case, is there any general way of dealing with lots of inactive players?

[Twilightblade]

4. Pevergreens mass group seems to be a bit of a risky venture, and the chances of infiltration sound pretty high. That is, assuming Pevergreen is innocent, if he isn't innocent he may be gaining the trust of many townies and misleading them from actualy helping the town. From what I hear, the sub-groups within his group have no member contact between them, and they are just expected to trust that Pevergreen is telling them to kill/save the right people. Pevergreen has set himself up with a lot of power, and if used for bad purposes I hate to think what could happen.


In this game zorg everything comes with a risk

My observations so far is that its too early to draw any conclusions so lets see what the night brings

[pevergreen]

WoG. You're familar with that.

Editing this post with a PM:


I still maintain that with 75 players, killing you wouldn't have been a big loss to the town and it would have made me happy but...... I'm no longer trying to vigilante you. In fact I've already got a doctor group together. I hope you realize that the truth is that I don't like you, and that is the reason I was going to kill you. Actually, I think I had enough people say they'd help kill you before Glenn Opened his big mouth.:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

Anyways, I do believe that trying to kill you after the first round without a good reason would hurt the town. So, you're safe from my wrath.

What do you say? truce?


Look! All shiny and right, as its quoted from W&F, not someone sending the text to me :stare:

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

In all honesty I do think Glenn, beyond his current exterior, may have the chance of being innocent. He's made a few slip ups and is exceptionally aggressive, but this seems to be his normal playing style so far. I must admit I don't like it, but it probably would be best to not allow his distracting methods to let other players out of our sight.

GH reminds me of how he acted in pevergreen's Fantasy Mafia. For those that weren't there, he was a serial killer role, under the name of "Lycan". I pointed out his silence and later his obsessive and fairly aggressive defence. He's acting like that here - possibly indicating similar mafia activity.

Moving on to norwegian nerd, I'm not really sure of his intentions. Any sane Luca/Made/Don wouldn't reveal they have a "buddy" so early on, although at the time he mentioned it it was fairly impossible for a townie group to have been established. I would prefer pressurising him to force a leak of who his "friend" is rather than lynching him at first. After that, we can move on into interrogations and, if needs be, lynch them both.

Since Zorg has brought TS up, this has been his normal playing style. I'm quite surprised I haven't been contacted by him for a townie pact though - he's done this in almost all games which I've played with him except when he's been a mafioso. This could hint in that direction, but he may have just excluded me after I pointed the FoS at him in Kung Fu mafia in April last year.

woad&fangs isn't really anybody I'm too concerned about - he may be dangerously fanatical for a townie, but regardless, he does actually seem to be an innocent of sorts. I don't like his "grudge" against pevergreen, but, as long as he doesn't have any of these "grudges" against anybody else, lynching him would probably be a pointless exercise.

[Sigurd]

Good to see that we are on the same page as when I went to bed last night.

All though Sasaki is acting in character with his aggressive interrogation techniques, I am left with the feeling that he is too much in character. I am noticing that our attention are focused on Sasaki’s suspects and that bandwagons are silently taking momentum, orchestrated by perhaps one of the most dangerous players I have ever played against.

Yes.. Sasaki is surely taking control and we have several lynch-ready suspects even before any killing has taken place.
Sasaki is establishing his public role as a conductor for this game, but we surely don’t know his real intentions. Maybe he is afraid to be investigated and need bait for the detectives? Who knows…
Undoubtedly Sasaki’s assessment of Glenn, NN and Moros etc are worth taking a closer look at for those with the abilities to do so, but we should never forget Sasaki.
He has been a wolf in sheep clothing far too many times to go unnoticed.

[Andres]

What do you think about GeneralHankerchief, Sigurd?

[Sigurd]

What do you think about GeneralHankerchief, Sigurd?

I am always wary when it comes to GH. The team GH and Sasaki is always going to be trouble. But GH acts defensive when he has a role, no matter if it is pro-town or mafia. I notice Sasaki has GH on his list, but the focus is on the others. A classic mafia play.. to put a slight focus on your buddy mafia and then let it slip silently to the background.

I am watching but IMO there is nothing much to put a finger on. GH could be detective or mafia, he will act like he does now either way.

[Zorg]

Just thought I would mention (as its relevant to your last comment Sigrud). That in Capo basically everyone "has a role", seeing as you can get a role even if you start as just a vanilla townie. So under your logic (having not been around very long I obviously can't tell if its true) GH doesn't necessarily already have a role.

[pevergreen]

Sigurd knows this.

My eye is always watchful of SK. Rule 1. And Capo 1.

[Drisos]

HA! All townies are innocent. As they are not the mafia. It seems that this is your first game of mafia so maybe you don't know that. And maybe you have a role that is suspectable that made you think townies weren't innocent?

:inquisitive:

it's by far not my first mafia game. And they are indeed innocent, as I of course knew. First, I call them 'innocent townies', which is correct, then you 'say, do non-innocent townies exist too' or so, critisizing my 'innocent townies' word combination. then when I agree that my language wasn't really clear (using 'innocent townies' is wrong, just like 'white snow', 'female queen' etc etc) but then you jump on me as I stated that some townies aren't innocent and I might be one of them.

you're just twisting truths here, and overly jumping on me to find a reason to get me lynched? why this behaviour? I love you :daisy: !

edit: grrrr, Andres, I don't love him, and what I said whatsn't more then normal in a life-threathening situation! :P

[woad&fangs]

O, so we're posting PMs now, are we. In that case here is his reply.


I have 13 people on my side...:beam2:

Care to join forces?

if yes, Ill organize protection on you.

Edit:
Here is some proof that I really don't like Pevergreen and wanted him dead on a grudge and nothing more. I don't have anymore grudges that you have to worry about.https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=97214

[Andres]

Ok, ok, that's enough evidence.

Can we keep our little personal vendetta's for ourselves please? They have nothing to do with CDTC II itself. Use pm's. Thnx in advance.

[Caius]

I'm sorry guys. I have been away from a pc for all these days. I'm sorry, I need to read everything. Apparently my parents want to go on holidays when CDTC starts. Happened me in CDTC 1, now again. GAH!

[Dutch_guy]

Happened me in CDTC 1, now again. GAH!

You should really sort that out with your parents, they should know better than that. ~;) :laugh4:

:balloon2:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I notice Sasaki has GH on his list, but the focus is on the others. A classic mafia play.. to put a slight focus on your buddy mafia and then let it slip silently to the background.


I don't have much on the list except a link to a suspicious player. That's why there's no number next to his name. You can't expect GH to mess up day 1.


Maybe he is afraid to be investigated and need bait for the detectives? Who knows…

That would be a lost cause.



Who knows…
Undoubtedly Sasaki’s assessment of Glenn, NN and Moros etc are worth taking a closer look at for those with the abilities to do so, but we should never forget Sasaki.
He has been a wolf in sheep clothing far too many times to go unnoticed.


Mafia hunt mafia in this game. Every case made against someone must be evaluated based on the strength of the case itself.

[Moros]

I might not be really active the next two days as I'm going to do some serious celebratin'.

Though I'll probably have a few checks on the forum. So if I'm not responisve my apologies

[Ferret]

Well that is a drag. I am afraid Dutch_guy is right though. Nobody knows whom to kill or hang in the first few, confusing rounds. So people generally aim for inexperienced players who don't post. For all they know, the newster may have stopped playing anyway so he won't be missed.

Might I suggest you PM me your role if you are interested in continued participation despite possible internet problems? Then I can vote on your behalf and see to it that nobody mistakes you for an easy picking in your absense. :bow:

I think I'd rather not do that, it hasn't been off for a few days now :beam:

I also wouldn't be too bothered if I did get killed, this is just a learning experience, I've always wondered about the mafia games popping up everywhere in the gameroom. I doubt even if I devoted all my time to this my role would make much difference anyway, even if I knew the rules I'm not a sneaky enough person :sweatdrop: . Oh and sorry if this doesn't fit in with the latest discussion, I don't have time to read all the posts :shame:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Night One Summary

Beefy187 had kept his evening fairly low-key. After the selection meeting, he’d gone to his office, finished up a little paperwork and then headed to a corner “tappy” for a beer. After wetting his whistle, he walked back out into the muggy dark, turned the corner, and began the 3-block walk to his apartment.

He got about 20 feet, just approaching the trapdoors to the tappy’s cellar when two cars whipped up to the curb at his side, only feet away. Out popped 4 men in dark trench coats, with their soft-brimmed hats low over their faces and their hands cradling PPSh41’s. The Russian “burp gun” was a brutal looking weapon and all 4 were pointing at him as the gunmen pulled back the bolts and made ready to fire. Beefy was stunned, too scared to run, and hadn’t even begun to mutter a final prayer when…

<<click.>> <<click.>> <<click.>> <<click.>>

All four of the brutally simple and thoroughly reliable weapons failed to fire. The gunmen were stunned – the odds of all four weapons failing to fire defied description! Beefy began to move at last, scrambling to pull open the cellar door to the tappy and make an escape. The gunman cleared the bolts and quickly rammed fresh magazines into their weapons as Beefy opened the hatch and stepped onto the ladder to the cellar.

<<click.>> <<click.>> <<click.>> <<click.>>

Stunningly, all 4 freshly-loaded weapons jammed and failed to fire again. The gunmen were shocked with disbelief. No one could have tampered with the weapons and all of the ammo had been checked by hand and meticulously loaded into the clips – yet none of the weapons got off a round.

Beefy wasted no time dropping into the cellar and running pell-mell up to the bar with it’s barkeeper’s shotgun and plenty of witnesses. As he reached the tap-room, he heard the squeal of cars making a fast exit from the scene. Beefy’s pulse would slow down eventually, but he managed a few prayers at last as well as a few brews to steady his jangled nerves. He decided to go to an all-night café after the tappy closed. Alone didn’t seem to be such a good idea.


Drisos didn’t mind operating alone. He preferred it. He would work with others as needed , of course, but he was aware that the only person upon whom you could rely completely was yourself. Now he completed engaging the elaborate sequence of locks and alarms he used to secure his top-floor studio apartment. No one could hope to get through the doors or windows without making enough noise to wake the dead – and Drisos would be ready.

But he wasn’t ready when he awoke, his limbs tied to the posts of his bed and something covering his eyes.

"Hi Drisos", a voice with an Asian accent [false?] said.

"What's the problem pal?" said another voice. “You aren’t exactly gracious to guests with all your traps and stuff.”

The “Asian” chuckled, "Rook at him. He tinks he's sho cool!"

"I'm not afraid of you!" Drisos said, mustering up whatever defiance he could.

"You probabry sho cool that when you go to sreep, the sheep start to count you..."

The “Asian” guy and his partner laughed.

"Untie me you punks!” Drisos shouted.

The heavily silenced Type 14 Nambu pistol put a neat hole directly between Drisos’ eyes. He was dead before his ears could register the heavy coughing sound they had just heard.

“Sayonara, Drisos.”

The killer’s partner carefully lifted the small pink ballet slippers that had been used to cover Drisos’ eyes. The slippers were placed carefully in “1st position” just above the entry wound.

The killers made their escape the way that had come in, through the skylight. Though wired with a breakage alarm, Drisos had not expected someone to have had the roof around the skylight sawn open and hinges installed so as to turn the skylight into a trap door – all without interrupting the alarm circuit. Drisos was found the next morning when he did not answer his page for the meeting. Fermanagh’s “crack” investigators never discovered the recently re-tarred seams around the skylight.


Glenn had always been a bit excitable, and with the prospect of having to vote to lynch somebody, his heart was racing and he had trouble staying still. <<I need a bracer, just to calm my nerves a bit,>> he thought, and began to walk up the street towards the Hotel Abbatoir and Fatlington’s poshest bar.

His walk there was anything but relaxing, with Glenn spinning at every stray sound or voice that seemed out of place. Finally, he was steps away from the hotel’s entrance when four dark figures stood up from the expensively landscaped bushes surrounding the hotel’s small entryway garden and flagpole – and all of them had tommy guns.

In the second before the gunmen opened fire, a nearby street pretzel vendor made two quick steps toward Glenn, lifted him bodily and flung him into the open bin of the pretzel cart. The gunman paused a moment, stunned by this unexpected event, as the carter slammed the cart’s lid shut and started rolling the cart toward the hotel doors. Then they opened fire.

Round after round from their submachine guns slammed into the cart but the cart was apparently both motorized and heavily armored and rolled itself through the doors of the Abbatoir and directly into the bar where it crashed up against the bar itself. The doorman was badly wounded as he accidentally came under fire from the gunmen as they kept tracking the cart with their weapons ratcheting out rounds. None of them focused any rounds on the carter, however, who took the opportunity to dropp into the driver’s seat of a cab waiting at the hotel front and speed off. With sirens blaring and witnesses beginning to look at the racket, the gunmen gave up their efforts and faded back into the sweltering darkness.

It took a bit of effort to extract a stunned Glenn from cart, stained with mustard and freshly rolled in salt, but Glenn was alive and more-or-less well because someone -- or several? – had been there to help. He never did get that drink.


Xdeathfire was having a quiet drink at an all-night coffee shop – he always claimed that the caffeine helped him sleep – when a trench-coated individual, face invisible below his hat, walked in and leveled a shotgun at Xdeathfire. Xdeathfire was up and moving for the back of the café before he’d even consciously thought about it. The first blast hit the booth where Xdeathfire had just been sitting, only a couple of pellets grazing his arm as he moved. The second blast caught the surprised busboy in the stomach as Xdeathfire headed toward the back exit. There was nobody waiting at the back exit, and Xdeathfire was moving quickly toward the police precinct house in the next block.

The gunman, realizing that things were not going according to plan, made a quick exit, dropping the shotgun in the drain. Nobody got a good look at the shooter.


Morning, Day Two

It was mid-morning and the heat was already oppressive. The convention center had air conditioning – a luxury that would normally have made the meeting a cheerful alternative to a sweaty day at the office. Today’s meeting featured a lot of quiet murmuring and more than a little apprehension. Today the Committee would embark upon its first effort to stop the mafia takeover. Today would be a beginning…and an ending.
Fermanagh hadn’t shaved and didn’t look as though he’d slept much or well. For a wonder, the top cop of Fatlington had been up before 7, at his desk by 8 and was here for the 10 o’clock meeting sober. Definitely a banner day for Fatlington’s finest. He went to the podium.

“Well now, before I turn the proceedings over to Director Kommodus, I’d like to brief you on the events of last night, just in case any of you haven’t already heard…”

He recounted the story of last night’s events in a reasonably business-like manner. Fermanagh wasn’t happy, and he’d stumbled a bit in announcing Drisos’ death, but he’d had to make less pleasant reports before – perhaps this time around would be less of a horror show. He shook his head. This was Fatlington, and rooting for “happily ever after” wasn’t much more likely than making four the hard way.

“So that’s it, and you can be assured that I’m having the morgue crew and the standard investigation teams take a good look into Drisos‘ background – we will get you some answers soon. As it is, I know you’ve got a decision to make, so I’ll turn it over to Kommodus and he’ll brief you as to our meeting this sundown….”

OOC
Investigations results and other results notification from Night One will be forwarded as soon as practical.

Votes to lynch must be recorded in the thread – in bold – no later than 2300 EST 7 Feb 08 (0400 GMT 8 Feb 8) to be counted.


Information Summary

Still Alive: (78) ajaxfetish, Alexander the Pretty Good, Andres, Beefy187, Big King Sanctaphrax, Brave Sir Robin, Caeser the III, Caius, Charge, Chimpyang, CountArach, Cowhead418, Craterus, Crazed Rabbit, Draco Leman, Dutch guy, Elite Ferret, Evil_Maniac from Mars, FactionHeir, Fahad I, GeneralHankerchief, gibsonsg91921, Glenn, Hannibalbarc, Haudegen, Hiji, Husar, Ichigo, Ironside, JimBob, Joe Monks, johnhughthom, Jubal_Barca, Kagemusha, KamiKhaan, Killfr3nzy, Kommodus, KukriKhan, Leet Erikson, LittleGrizzly, Lord Winter, Louis VI the Fat, Lt. Pinard, Makanyane, molonthegreat, Moros, Motep, Myrrdraal, Northnovas, norwegian nerd, Omanes Alexandrapolites, Pannonian, pevergreen, Proletariat, Roadkill, Rob_the_Celt, Rythmic, sapi, Sarathos, Sasaki Kojiro, scottishranger, shlin28, Sigurd Fafnesbane, taka, The Stranger, Tiberius of the Drake, TinCow, Tran, TruePraetorian, Twilightblade, Warluster, Warmaster Horus, woad&fangs, x-dANGEr, Xdeathfire, Xehh II, Xiahou, Zorg.

Attacked: (3) Beefy187 (N1), Glenn (N1), Xdeathfire (N1)

Murdered: (1) Drisos (N1)

Lynched: (0)

Removed from Play: (0)

[shlin28]

Hmm...

So vigilante groups hit both Beefy and Glenn, but both survived, Beefy because of sheer luck, or maybe something else...? and Glenn because of a protection group.

Drisos died from an Asian mafia gang, Japanese perhaps?

Xdeathfire looks to be attacked by a serial killer maybe?

Thats all I got.

Vote Beefy, How did you survive?

[seireikhaan]

Vote: Glenn

I'm rather curious as to who would be protecting him, considering a lot of people seemed to find he was acting suspiciously before night. Methinks he was a Don protected by his Luca(s).

[Pannonian]

I'd like to see Beefy's explanation for what happened.

Vote: Beefy

[Xehh II]

Vote: Glenn
Same reason as kamikhaan

[Andres]

4 people attacked Beefy, but Beefy survived, apparently without protection.
4 people attacked Glenn, Glenn survived, apparently he was protected by 1 person.
1 man attacked Xdeathfire, he failed.
2 men attacked Drisos, they succeeded.

Imo, this means:

2 vigilante squads were active last night, both squads operated with 4 people, both failed, one because the target was protected (Glenn), one because the target (Beefy187) was lucky? :inquisitive:

Why the hell did the vigilante attack Beefy187? His survival without protection suggests that he has a powerfull role.

pevergreen and woad&fangs were recruiting townies. People told me that pevergreen claimed to be in control of 13 people, all townies off course (yeah right). TS has been recruiting townies as well. I was in a group with Drisos, TS and Moros trying to protect Sigurd. TS claimed to have a second group. What did that group do? Who were in it?

The Stranger, pevergreen or woad&fangs, one of them must have organised the attack on Beefy187.

The one guy who attacked Xdeathfire... Somebody acting alone? A wiseguy whose friends didn't show up to the party?

The kill on Drisos was probably performed by the mafia (2 men + succesful hit).

What bothers me the most are the two vigilante squads. Sasaki, were you behind the attack on Glenn?

I'll start with : Vote : pevergreen Did you organise the attack on Beefy187? If so, then why?

[The Stranger]

im not sure my second group ever got up... i got 3 men in it... they were protecting louis... as you know 3 men is not enough for attacking persons... just for protecting.

[Andres]

im not sure my second group ever got up... i got 3 men in it... they were protecting louis... as you know 3 men is not enough for attacking persons... just for protecting.

I see. Off course we cannot check this, since Louis wasn't attacked last night. Can one or two people of your second group confirm your story?

[woad&fangs]

I wasn't involved with the beefy scenario. In fact, I didn't do anything last night.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Vote: CountArach

Very early on he used the following reasoning to elect an unknown:


Elect: Fahad I

We might as well give a new player the full Capo experience.

Shady.

In Capo 1 I used pretty much the exact same reasoning to get my Don, pevergreen, elected on Day 1. I was his Luca, trying to free myself up for more "fun" night activities than protecting people.

My guess is that we could have the same scenario here.

[Csargo]

Vote:Glenn

[seireikhaan]

4 people attacked Beefy, but Beefy survived, apparently without protection.
4 people attacked Glenn, Glenn survived, apparently he was protected by 1 person.
1 man attacked Xdeathfire, he failed.
2 men attacked Drisos, they succeeded.

Imo, this means:

2 vigilante squads were active last night, both squads operated with 4 people, both failed, one because the target was protected (Glenn), one because the target (Beefy187) was lucky? :inquisitive:

Why the hell did the vigilante attack Beefy187? His survival without protection suggests that he has a powerfull role.

pevergreen and woad&fangs were recruiting townies. People told me that pevergreen claimed to be in control of 13 people, all townies off course (yeah right). TS has been recruiting townies as well. I was in a group with Drisos, TS and Moros trying to protect Sigurd. TS claimed to have a second group. What did that group do? Who were in it?

The Stranger, pevergreen or woad&fangs, one of them must have organised the attack on Beefy187.

The one guy who attacked Xdeathfire... Somebody acting alone? A wiseguy whose friends didn't show up to the party?

The kill on Drisos was probably performed by the mafia (2 men + succesful hit).

What bothers me the most are the two vigilante squads. Sasaki, were you behind the attack on Glenn?

I'll start with : Vote : pevergreen Did you organise the attack on Beefy187? If so, then why?
Interesting. My guess is Xdeathfire was attacked by a vigelante/Serial killer. Just a hunch, though. As for Beefy, its quite possible he's got some kind of important role, but perhaps he just 'got lucky'? I'm not entirely sure how Seamus is running this. Bear in mind, its not like Beefy did anything really spectacular, a bunch of guns all malfunctioned. Quite possible we won't find out until the game is over.

I would also like to hear from Pever what his group was doing last night. 13 people is a lot of 'townies' to be organising.

Andres, what is your opinion of Glenn? It still strikes me as very suspicious that he would end up protected when there was near universal renown that was acting at least "a little scummy". It just seems odd that he, as someone with almost no mafia renown and widely considered to be acting oddly, at the least, would get protection. Hence why I think he was a Don who got protected by a Luca.

[TinCow]

Why the hell did the vigilante attack Beefy187? His survival without protection suggests that he has a powerfull role.

I feel like I'm being left in the dust by some of the analysis going on in this thread, but the above seems pretty accurate to me. If Beefy is powerful, doesn't that mean he isn't a townie?

Vote: Beefy187

[Motep]

...I missed the fist day phase....

Dont feel like reading eleven pages....sooo...

:gah2:

[Sigurd]

I agree with Andres' assessment of the nocturnal happenings.

But I think we should play down Beefy's powers. I bet he was saved because the group of four townies or a mix of townies and other roles either was infiltrated by mafia/detective or someone forgot (on purpose?) to send in their pm.

Glenn was obviously protected should we follow the mechanics of CDTC I. Why would a doctor or a group of townies protect Glenn? It would take a few people to set Glenn up for a frame. First you need a group of three to protect him, then a group of four to kill him. But wouldn't the narration be different? noting three people that did the protection?
I am going to reject the set up theory and the posibility of a doctor protecting him...
Glenn was protected by one person... his Luca?

Vote:Glenn
Let's see how he answers.

[Craterus]

vote: pevergreen

I've already explained my apprehensions with the vigilante groups at this stage but it's the leaders I'm more worried about. They're very eager to get people signed into their group and do their bidding, bit suspicious as some of them don't plan on participating in the activities of their group. It's the number of people as well, 13 seems like a lot to me (I would have stopped at 3-4, the required amount with perhaps one spare). To have one player wielding so much power seems dangerous. It's fairly likely that one vigilante group is led by a mafioso so I've picked the one I believe to have been publicised most and have the most members.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Vote: norwegian nerd

I don't really think we should allow the events prior to the night phase to totally slip our memories. So norwegian nerd, who is this friend and why were you so close to him before even the most basic townie organisations could be established?

[scottishranger]

I think we should look at the kill summaries at bit more in depth, there might be some clues to the identities of people.
Beefy

Beefy187 had kept his evening fairly low-key. After the selection meeting, he’d gone to his office, finished up a little paperwork and then headed to a corner “tappy” for a beer. After wetting his whistle, he walked back out into the muggy dark, turned the corner, and began the 3-block walk to his apartment.

He got about 20 feet, just approaching the trapdoors to the tappy’s cellar when two cars whipped up to the curb at his side, only feet away. Out popped 4 men in dark trench coats, with their soft-brimmed hats low over their faces and their hands cradling PPSh41’s. The Russian “burp gun” was a brutal looking weapon and all 4 were pointing at him as the gunmen pulled back the bolts and made ready to fire. Beefy was stunned, too scared to run, and hadn’t even begun to mutter a final prayer when…

<<click.>> <<click.>> <<click.>> <<click.>>

All four of the brutally simple and thoroughly reliable weapons failed to fire. The gunmen were stunned – the odds of all four weapons failing to fire defied description! Beefy began to move at last, scrambling to pull open the cellar door to the tappy and make an escape. The gunman cleared the bolts and quickly rammed fresh magazines into their weapons as Beefy opened the hatch and stepped onto the ladder to the cellar.

<<click.>> <<click.>> <<click.>> <<click.>>

Stunningly, all 4 freshly-loaded weapons jammed and failed to fire again. The gunmen were shocked with disbelief. No one could have tampered with the weapons and all of the ammo had been checked by hand and meticulously loaded into the clips – yet none of the weapons got off a round.

Beefy wasted no time dropping into the cellar and running pell-mell up to the bar with it’s barkeeper’s shotgun and plenty of witnesses. As he reached the tap-room, he heard the squeal of cars making a fast exit from the scene. Beefy’s pulse would slow down eventually, but he managed a few prayers at last as well as a few brews to steady his jangled nerves. He decided to go to an all-night café after the tappy closed. Alone didn’t seem to be such a good idea.

This to me, sounds like Beefy is at least a pro-town role. Given the fact that he was keeping low-key, it sounds to me like he has a pretty special role though. I do not know what it is, but it sounds powerful given the fact he survived an atttack by four people.(Mafia? or Vigilantes?)

As to Drisos
Drisos didn’t mind operating alone. He preferred it. He would work with others as needed , of course, but he was aware that the only person upon whom you could rely completely was yourself. Now he completed engaging the elaborate sequence of locks and alarms he used to secure his top-floor studio apartment. No one could hope to get through the doors or windows without making enough noise to wake the dead – and Drisos would be ready.
But he wasn’t ready when he awoke, his limbs tied to the posts of his bed and something covering his eyes.

"Hi Drisos", a voice with an Asian accent [false?] said.

"What's the problem pal?" said another voice. “You aren’t exactly gracious to guests with all your traps and stuff.”

The “Asian” chuckled, "Rook at him. He tinks he's sho cool!"

"I'm not afraid of you!" Drisos said, mustering up whatever defiance he could.

"You probabry sho cool that when you go to sreep, the sheep start to count you..."

The “Asian” guy and his partner laughed.

"Untie me you punks!” Drisos shouted.

The heavily silenced Type 14 Nambu pistol put a neat hole directly between Drisos’ eyes. He was dead before his ears could register the heavy coughing sound they had just heard.

“Sayonara, Drisos.”

The killer’s partner carefully lifted the small pink ballet slippers that had been used to cover Drisos’ eyes. The slippers were placed carefully in “1st position” just above the entry wound.

The killers made their escape the way that had come in, through the skylight. Though wired with a breakage alarm, Drisos had not expected someone to have had the roof around the skylight sawn open and hinges installed so as to turn the skylight into a trap door – all without interrupting the alarm circuit. Drisos was found the next morning when he did not answer his page for the meeting. Fermanagh’s “crack” investigators never discovered the recently re-tarred seams around the skylight.

Now, why is Drisos so suspicous of people breaking into his home? This could mean that he is either a wise guy type person, or be some other special role. Either way, I do not think that is 100% pro-town. It does not matter a whole lot now that he is dead, but It is worth thinking about it at least.


Glenn had always been a bit excitable, and with the prospect of having to vote to lynch somebody, his heart was racing and he had trouble staying still. <<I need a bracer, just to calm my nerves a bit,>> he thought, and began to walk up the street towards the Hotel Abbatoir and Fatlington’s poshest bar.

His walk there was anything but relaxing, with Glenn spinning at every stray sound or voice that seemed out of place. Finally, he was steps away from the hotel’s entrance when four dark figures stood up from the expensively landscaped bushes surrounding the hotel’s small entryway garden and flagpole – and all of them had tommy guns.

In the second before the gunmen opened fire, a nearby street pretzel vendor made two quick steps toward Glenn, lifted him bodily and flung him into the open bin of the pretzel cart. The gunman paused a moment, stunned by this unexpected event, as the carter slammed the cart’s lid shut and started rolling the cart toward the hotel doors. Then they opened fire.

Round after round from their submachine guns slammed into the cart but the cart was apparently both motorized and heavily armored and rolled itself through the doors of the Abbatoir and directly into the bar where it crashed up against the bar itself. The doorman was badly wounded as he accidentally came under fire from the gunmen as they kept tracking the cart with their weapons ratcheting out rounds. None of them focused any rounds on the carter, however, who took the opportunity to dropp into the driver’s seat of a cab waiting at the hotel front and speed off. With sirens blaring and witnesses beginning to look at the racket, the gunmen gave up their efforts and faded back into the sweltering darkness.

It took a bit of effort to extract a stunned Glenn from cart, stained with mustard and freshly rolled in salt, but Glenn was alive and more-or-less well because someone -- or several? – had been there to help. He never did get that drink.

Now, several of you people have been accusing Glenn of being a mafia don. This is not a baseless accusation, but from the description of things, it is pretty obvious that more than just one person was protecting him. Now, barring the unlikley event that both his luca and a protecion group were protecting him, I think it is just a protection group. But what I do not really get is why someone would try and protect Glenn? He has proven to be one of the most suspicious of the entire game, so why protect him?

Xdeathfire


Xdeathfire was having a quiet drink at an all-night coffee shop – he always claimed that the caffeine helped him sleep – when a trench-coated individual, face invisible below his hat, walked in and leveled a shotgun at Xdeathfire. Xdeathfire was up and moving for the back of the café before he’d even consciously thought about it. The first blast hit the booth where Xdeathfire had just been sitting, only a couple of pellets grazing his arm as he moved. The second blast caught the surprised busboy in the stomach as Xdeathfire headed toward the back exit. There was nobody waiting at the back exit, and Xdeathfire was moving quickly toward the police precinct house in the next block.

The gunman, realizing that things were not going according to plan, made a quick exit, dropping the shotgun in the drain. Nobody got a good look at the shooter.

I don't really know anything about this. It is likely that is is a serial killer, though it could be a vigilante group that only had one person try and kill someone(I think the description would have been differant though). A better question would be how did Xdeathfire escape from this death?

[PershsNhpios]

... Wow..

I had very great fears of being murdered for my venture into the spotlight during the day - warmly cushioned by Sasaki.

Now Sasaki had really pushed for this, and Ichigo had gone along with whatever Sasaki had proposed regardless.

I obviously have been mistaken for someone's arch enemy here, or I just happened to be the first person Sasaki saw - and he has a teammate.

Either way, someone tried to kill me, my guess is Sasaki and Ichigo, and for this reason they will hammer me all through the day as their attempt failed.

If I were to reply honestly - as I have - I have to admit, I did not think there was the slightest possibility I'd be protected, but I was almost certain I'd be attacked for my writing style..

Alot of innocent-seeming people on here are attempting now to lynch Beefy, I would not suggest this based solely on the evidence he was attacked - someone may know he has a powerful pro-townie role, and thus attempted to kill him.
Or perhaps not, that is rough speculation, but after the unreasonable interrogations I suffered I am pitiful of those who receive suspicion without great merit..

[scottishranger]

I feel like I'm being left in the dust by some of the analysis going on in this thread, but the above seems pretty accurate to me. If Beefy is powerful, doesn't that mean he isn't a townie?

Vote: Beefy187
That does not necessarily mean he is not pro-town.. If Beefy had been a Don(the only role that I would apply to being anti-town), then surely the explanation would have said there was someone protecting him, right?

[Csargo]

... Wow..

I had very great fears of being murdered for my venture into the spotlight during the day - warmly cushioned by Sasaki.

Now Sasaki had really pushed for this, and Ichigo had gone along with whatever Sasaki had proposed regardless.

If you remember I'm the one who pointed out your blunder. I was hardly going along with Sasaki. It just seems I don't get credit for pointing out your statement.

[Pannonian]

Scot, the Org spolier tag is spoil, not spoiler.

[Drisos]

I'm sorry to lose my life so soon. Now listen carefully.

Edit

Sorry again. My killing was luck of the draw, seems. I've been careful about my role. Bad luck... well, next game better...
Good luck, town, I might keep an eye open and cheer for all innocent people! ~:)

:bow:

[Sigurd]

... Wow..

I had very great fears of being murdered for my venture into the spotlight during the day - warmly cushioned by Sasaki.

Now Sasaki had really pushed for this, and Ichigo had gone along with whatever Sasaki had proposed regardless.

I obviously have been mistaken for someone's arch enemy here, or I just happened to be the first person Sasaki saw - and he has a teammate.

Either way, someone tried to kill me, my guess is Sasaki and Ichigo, and for this reason they will hammer me all through the day as their attempt failed.

If I were to reply honestly - as I have - I have to admit, I did not think there was the slightest possibility I'd be protected, but I was almost certain I'd be attacked for my writing style..

Alot of innocent-seeming people on here are attempting now to lynch Beefy, I would not suggest this based solely on the evidence he was attacked - someone may know he has a powerful pro-townie role, and thus attempted to kill him.
Or perhaps not, that is rough speculation, but after the unreasonable interrogations I suffered I am pitiful of those who receive suspicion without great merit..

There are some great holes in your explanation there. You were protected by one man. That means that man can only be a doctor or a Luca.
I hardly doubt a doctor would play along in a frame up of an player whose role is unclear.
But a team of townies could well be bold enough to test a suspicion of you being a Don...

Now explain to me the logic behind you being protected by a doctor?

[The Stranger]

FoS @ EVERYONE!!! :yes:

[Kagemusha]

Drisos. In what you base that Sigurd is a Don?

[Proletariat]

You can't reveal after you die, Drisos

[Sigurd]

I'm sorry to lose my life so soon. Now listen carefully.

I was detective. But got no results. (because I was murdered right away)
So, 100% pro-town.

Thing I do know, is, Sigurd Fafnesbane is one of the Dons. Now, don't lynch him yet - he has 4 rival families, so he'll be murdered anyway.
On his team is The_Stranger.
But he loses as well, when his Don is murdered, right?

Further people that have been really suspective in PM's:

Andres
Glenn

Both should be lynched if they survive for too long. I wouldn't count on it, though.

Furthermore, I can only advise, keep the smart people alive for now, this game is too complicated. Lynch them later on if they survive.

Sorry again. My killing was luck of the draw, seems. I've been careful about my role. Bad luck... well, next game better...
Good luck, town, I might keep an eye open and cheer for all innocent people! ~:)

:bow:

Wow, wow, wow... Hold your horses there m8.

Could you further enlighten us on the text in cursive there?

[PershsNhpios]

If there are holes in my explanation, then it is probably due to the fact that I'm at a loss as to why I would be protected.

Now, I have some dangerous information regarding you, Fafnesbane, it isn't much, but it involves one of your recruiters and his two protection groups, Alpha and Beta.

This makes me rather suspicious and uncertain as to wether you will believe anything I say, due to the fact that if Andres is correct, and Drisos is also - you wouldn't want my innocence to be accepted in any case.

On Drisos' statement; I think Drisos was not a detective.

However I contacted him because I wanted to share information - but was naturally cautious.. He gave me reason to think I was in danger to speak to him, so I withdrew.

I think that he has done some research in his own corner, and used the detective disguise to make people listen to his findings.

I think, regarding my own protection, that it was either enemies setting me up to be important, (Though if my enemies protected me - who is there to attack me?), or I have been mistaken for a greater pro-townie role.
As for the one person.. there are 79 players, I am willing to think there are well over 10 secret roles, and most of them never seen before.

I also think it possible that some players began as Surgeons.

[Pannonian]

Glenn, can you share that information with us concerning Sigurd and his recruiters?

[The Stranger]

drisos you lying scummy sunuvabits... why are you lying like this if you are pro town... who are you lying for you are not pro town...

[Sigurd]

:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

I can't believe I am reading this...
I obviously stepped on some toes in one of my previous posts... This is all slander.

[PershsNhpios]

I must add here, I momentarily forgot that Doctors could protect by themselves, there needn't be multiple doctors.. Though I maintain my theory on Surgeons.

So why is it so hard to rule out that one doctor, of which there should be many, or a surgeon, found me important?

Hmmm.. Note the two very lean, dismissive posts above me.

Though I doubt they are connected.

[TinCow]

I've thought about this a bit more and I'm going to change my vote.

I'm going to stick my neck out here and be honest in the hope that it sheds some light on this situation. I was one of the people pevergreen recruited to his group. Not knowing better, I went along with it. He asked me, along with three other people, to protect Beefy. I was contacted by other people telling me not to trust pevergreen, but with nothing to go on either way, I just decided to do so. Despite what the description says, I believe that this protection group succeeded and protected Beefy. However, it doesn't really explain who attacked Beefy in the first place.

The more I think about this, the more I think pevergreen arranged both the hit and the protection. He clearly has the manpower to do so. Why would he do this? It seems to me he wants the hit group to get promoted to wiseguy, while at the same time cultivating a doctor group to protect him. Why then did he pick Beefy? Probably because he was somewhat suspicious and also because it didn't matter: the target was never going to die anyway. So, I'm left with Beefy being questionably guilty of something that I don't know. At the same time, pevergreen seems to be organizing a large group of people into a hit group and a protection group. He is not telling either side about the other group and is instead issuing orders for his own inscrutable reasons. This is suspicious enough for me to no trust him, and if I don't trust him, he's a good choice for a lynching.

Unvote: Beefy187
Vote: pevergreen

[The Stranger]

:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

I can't believe I am reading this...
I obviously stepped on some toes in one of my previous posts... This is all slander.

yeah... somebody knocked him on the head... :dizzy2: hes wrong about me... what about you eh?... don? :inquisitive:

[Drisos]

Haha, well this all is exactly the reason I'm not looking forward to much discussion now. I'd be called liar 10 times an hour, while when all is finished you'll all see me listed as detective, murdered night 1..

Obviously I missed something out on the rules of when you're dead? I couldn't even call Sigurd a don?

Welll, I hope the right people read it now anyway.. sorry for the spoiler then..

[PershsNhpios]

No one mentioned your name Stranger.

[Sigurd]

Now, I have some dangerous information regarding you, Fafnesbane, it isn't much, but it involves one of your recruiters and his two protection groups, Alpha and Beta.


This just testifies to me that you are playing with dirty cards.
My vote is reinforced...

[The Stranger]

No one mentioned your name Stranger.

if im not mistaken... drisos did...

[The Stranger]

hahaha alpha and beta :P hilarious...

[Kagemusha]

So Glenn, tell us your information about Sigurd, as if you are innocent, you have nothing to hide?

[PershsNhpios]

I'm innocent, but it doesn't matter if I'm innocent or not, it's my life I'm concerned about.

However, if I say what I know.. and I know alot.. and people believe me, then alot of nasty people are going to hang.

And I will die, won't I Stranger?

[The Stranger]

@ Glenn

stop threathening me... tell me what dirt you supposedly got on me... bring it

stop twisting my words

[Proletariat]

Vote: Sigurd

Best case scenario would be to lynch GH, Sigurd, Glenn and The Stranger this round, since they're all suspicious and we won't get a straight answer out of any of them.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

When pevergreen sent out the pm I replied and asked to be put in a protection group. He ordered 4 of us to protect beefy. I didn't see any reason to do that (thinking he might be a mafia buddy of pever or that pever just wanted to know who was protected). I contacted my group and asked them to protect pannonian instead. Tincow didn't trust me either, so I think only two of us actually protected pannonian, my result email said our efforts weren't parallel.

It's possible pevergreen intended to have vigilante groups attack protected individuals in order to get doctors promoted. He should have made this clear however. Seems a bit like cheating to me anyway. I also want to know what kamikhaan has to do with this.

Drisos's death description reveals him as having a special role imo.

Glenn's results. I find it curious that he was heading towards "the poshest bar" in a fancy sounding hotel. He was also obviously protected by 1 person, and it seems that seamus wants to add a little doubt to that. I don't see why a doctor would protect him, and even if it was a doctor that's no proof of innocence at all. Vote:Glenn

Beefy was obviously not protected--it seems some sort of divine intervention was at stake. I don't think he should be voted for, there is nothing sinister about him.

Xdeathfire could be a serial killer or perhaps a lack of coordination between a group of killers.

In summary, voting Glenn is by far the best route. Beefy could be protown, he will need to claim. Pevergreen needs to cough up some information, I don't think we can condemn him just yet.

[The Stranger]

why me... im being the middlepoint of lies and slander... i should sue them

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

I'm innocent, but it doesn't matter if I'm innocent or not, it's my life I'm concerned about.

However, if I say what I know.. and I know alot.. and people believe me, then alot of nasty people are going to hang.

And I will die, won't I Stranger?

This is dodgy reasoning, if you were really pro-town then you'd tell as, as your ultimate aim should be a town win, not to stay alive. Along with your bizzare posts in the day phase, and your remarkable save, I think things are stacking up against you. A provisional Vote: Glenn.

Tincow's theory about Pever is interesting, but there is the possibility that he was just attempting to cultivate a doctor for the town-I'll wait until he explains himself.

[LittleGrizzly]

reading through this and going on my instincts

Vote Pevergreen

[Sigurd]

Haha, well this all is exactly the reason I'm not looking forward to much discussion now. I'd be called liar 10 times an hour, while when all is finished you'll all see me listed as detective, murdered night 1..

Obviously I missed something out on the rules of when you're dead? I couldn't even call Sigurd a don?

Welll, I hope the right people read it now anyway.. sorry for the spoiler then..

Now tell me Drisos.. I am dying to know. How did this information about me and my supposed accomplice come into your hands?
You mentioned Glenn and Andres as sources. Reading it again, you think them suspicious.

We will soon know if you were a detective..
Remember, in 3 days time your role will be posted for all to see.

[Kagemusha]

I'm innocent, but it doesn't matter if I'm innocent or not, it's my life I'm concerned about.

However, if I say what I know.. and I know alot.. and people believe me, then alot of nasty people are going to hang.

And I will die, won't I Stranger?

What you have to loose and hold out information for?This seals it for me. Vote: Glenn

[Louis VI the Fat]

You can't reveal after you die, DrisosCan the gamemaster or a mod shed light on this, please? Are post-mortem revelations allowed? I will not comment on Drisos' revelations until I know.



If I were to reply honestly - as I have - I have to admit, I did not think there was the slightest possibility I'd be protected, but I was almost certain I'd be attacked for my writing style..

So why is it so hard to rule out that one doctor, of which there should be many, or a surgeon, found me important?There are two scenario's:

You are a Don. You were automatically protected by your Luca.
You are something else but were protected by a doctor or a surgeon. This doctor need not think you are important at all. You took a lot of heat before last night. A clever doctor could've guessed you as a likely target for a hit, in order to promote himself to surgeon.

This last explanation is the easiest way to get you off the hook. It is a perfectly reasonable explanation for what happened to you last night and why you survived. I immediately thought of this explanation when I read Seamus' write up.

Why, Glenn, did you fail to see this was a good possibility at first? You know the rules by heart. Why are you not promoting this simple and perfectly valid explanation? Are you that busy conconting weird excuses?

Do you not know that townies eagerly seek a career in medicine? That many townie protection groups and doctors last night picked the people they protected based on the likelyhood that those people would be attacked? Did you give any thought at all to what works for townies or have you only been hanging out with your mafia buddies?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Vote: CountArach

Very early on he used the following reasoning to elect an unknown:



Shady.

In Capo 1 I used pretty much the exact same reasoning to get my Don, pevergreen, elected on Day 1. I was his Luca, trying to free myself up for more "fun" night activities than protecting people.

My guess is that we could have the same scenario here.

Oh really. 11 pages of thread and this is your vote and accusation? I would expect more detective work from you as a townie, this is a scummy post.


But I think we should play down Beefy's powers. I bet he was saved because the group of four townies or a mix of townies and other roles either was infiltrated by mafia/detective or someone forgot (on purpose?) to send in their pm.

That's really interesting. If beefy was in a family and one of the vigilante's was in the family then it could make sense that he would mess with the guns so they wouldn't fire. Perhaps the writeup indicates sabotage (or perhaps mafia can't kill eachother. Suspicion on beefy and pevergreen for this. Who was in the attacking group pevergreen?


Vote: norwegian nerd

I don't really think we should allow the events prior to the night phase to totally slip our memories. So norwegian nerd, who is this friend and why were you so close to him before even the most basic townie organisations could be established?

I agree nn needs to answer some questions.


Thing I do know, is, Sigurd Fafnesbane is one of the Dons. Now, don't lynch him yet - he has 4 rival families, so he'll be murdered anyway.
On his team is The_Stranger.
But he loses as well, when his Don is murdered, right?

Further people that have been really suspective in PM's:

Andres
Glenn

Write up helps support this, but we should wait until the gendarmerie gets some results. Think this post breaks the rules anyway and we shouldn't question furthur.


Now, I have some dangerous information regarding you, Fafnesbane, it isn't much, but it involves one of your recruiters and his two protection groups, Alpha and Beta.

Glenn is linking pever and sigurd here?


:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

I can't believe I am reading this...
I obviously stepped on some toes in one of my previous posts... This is all slander.

You get scumpoints for this.


yeah... somebody knocked him on the head... :dizzy2: hes wrong about me... what about you eh?... don? :inquisitive:


So do you. I could also swear I saw something where the stranger was laughing about glenn's use of alpha and betta, but now it seems to be gone.

[Dutch_guy]

Drisos's death description reveals him as having a special role imo.


Drisos didn’t mind operating alone. He preferred it. He would work with others as needed , of course, but he was aware that the only person upon whom you could rely completely was yourself.

Yes, I does look like it. But tough to say which one, though with what Drisos has said himself and by the pro-townie 'sound' of his kill description his claim of being a detective may very well be the truth. Making his allegations towards Sigurd, in particular, interesting. But hardly conclusive.



It's possible pevergreen intended to have vigilante groups attack protected individuals in order to get doctors promoted. He should have made this clear however. Seems a bit like cheating to me anyway.

If this is the case, then I'm not sure that lynching Pever is the best decision to make. However, again if this is true, he'd be a popular target for the baddies anyway. Interesting to know what Pever has to say on the matter, if he in fact organised both the hit and the protection (as TinCow suggested amongst others).

:balloon2:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Can the gamemaster or a mod shed light on this, please? Are post-mortem revelations allowed? I will not comment on Drisos' revelations until I know.

No post-mortem revelations are permissable prior to the role annoucement by Fermanagh at the 3rd morning session following death. To play honorably, the dead must be circumspect in or out of the thread. Any with questions should PM me rather than transgress.

[PershsNhpios]

What do I have to lose?

The possibility of gaining more information, and having a more productive role in the game - in other words, life!

I am unsure of some things, but I know names that can come forward and set things perfectly.

Protection Group Alpha, recruited by Stranger.
Glenn, Dutch_Guy, TruePraetorian

Protection Group Beta, recruited by - Stranger?
Drisos, Moros, Andres

Alpha protected Louis VI the Fat.

Beta protected Sigurd Fafnesbane.

Step forward, protectees, what was the reason for being recruited into this?
Considering I received my recruitment PM about one hour after game start, this all seemed too organised to be township.

You all must of realised also, if we can all give some evidence on this we can put this little Mafia away - and only one of us will die, myself. How romantic.

I have to go, this is a busy day for me, (Actually), so this is a quick reply.
For that reason I can't add this PM in a quote - but what difference does that make? The difference is wether you believe me or not.

A PM from Stranger recently:

for a person with so much info... you know awefully little... tell me something you know and I don't before ill be putting a bit of pressure on you...

I did not handle by sigurd... hes not my boss... but if you do not start telling me stuff you end up dead... you might as well tell me stuff that can save you so i can vouch for your innocense... this is not the way you to end CDTC... not this early

---------------------------------------------------------

Yes, there is more on Stranger, and on others - I withhold it only because I don't have time right now.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Vote count (please keep updated)

7 glenn(kamikhaan,xehh2,Ichigo,Sigurd,Sasaki,Big King Sanctaphrax,Kagemusha)
4 pevergreen(andres,cratarus,tincow,little grizzly)
2 Beefy(shlin, pannonian)
1 CountArach(GH)
1 norwegian nerd(omanes)
1 sigurd(prole)

[Sigurd]

Protection Group Alpha, recruited by Stranger.
Glenn, Dutch_Guy, TruePraetorian

Protection Group Beta, recruited by - Stranger?
Drisos, Moros, Andres

Alpha protected Louis VI the Fat.

Beta protected Sigurd Fafnesbane.


Ah... dawn is breaking. I retract my accusation of slander.

[Sarathos]

Some one has to go
Vote:Glenn

8 glenn(kamikhaan,xehh2,Ichigo,Sigurd,Sasaki,Big King Sanctaphrax,Kagemusha, Sarathos)
4 pevergreen(andres,cratarus,tincow,little grizzly)
2 Beefy(shlin, pannonian)
1 CountArach(GH)
1 norwegian nerd(omanes)
1 sigurd(prole)

[Sasaki Kojiro]

yeah... somebody knocked him on the head... :dizzy2: hes wrong about me... what about you eh?... don? :inquisitive:

So TS, glenn says you wanted to protect Sigurd, why was that? What were you doing last night? I don't see why you'd create protection groups and not join them, unless you were mafia trying to use the groups. This post here seems like you are pretending to be suspicious of sigurd.

[pevergreen]

Protecting pevergreen:

******
******
******
******
******


Killing Beefy:

Pevergreen
*******
*******
*******

Protecting beefy:

Tincow
******
Sasaki Kojiro
******


I had a group on me in case W&F got a hit on me.

The hit on beefy was organised by me to get doctors. I dont know if it was succesful or not.

[Twilightblade]

Isnt that "working the system" or something and a little off pever?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Killing Beefy:

Pevergreen
*******
*******
*******

Who else was in this group?
why? You left your group. I have no reason to trust you.

I am a wise guy...if your mafia that may be helpful...


HMMMM I think pevergreen must go. Not this round though, glenn goes this round.

This is from a pm just now btw.

[Sigurd]

According to Glenn, Louis was also protected by The_Stranger .. and following Drisos' logic Louis must be a Don and The Stranger his Luca.

BTW.. Why would a detective join a protection group? Why waste two investigations?

[pevergreen]

Yes sasaki. I have no reason to trust you.

Yes I am a wise guy. So? I cant join you under false circumstances? The only evidence we have of you is that you left a protection group last night.

[Hannibalbarc]

Vote Glenn My opinion is that he's a Don protected by his Lucas.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

According to Glenn, Louis was also protected by The_Stranger .. and following Drisos' logic Louis must be a Don and The Stranger his Luca.


How so?

[pevergreen]

Vote: Glenn

Glenn (10) (kamikhaan,xehh2,Ichigo,Sigurd,Sasaki,Big King Sanctaphrax,Kagemusha, Sarathos, Hannibalbarc, pevergreen)
pevergreen (4) (andres,cratarus,tincow,little grizzly)
Beefy187 (2) (shlin, pannonian)
CountArach (1) (GH)
norwegian nerd (1) (Omanes)
Sigurd (1) (prole)

[Csargo]

When pevergreen sent out the pm I replied and asked to be put in a protection group. He ordered 4 of us to protect beefy. I didn't see any reason to do that (thinking he might be a mafia buddy of pever or that pever just wanted to know who was protected). I contacted my group and asked them to protect pannonian instead. Tincow didn't trust me either, so I think only two of us actually protected pannonian, my result email said our efforts weren't parallel.

I'm curious as to why you wanted to protect Pannonian.

Also, I'm not a big fan of Sigurd's attitude.

[Sigurd]

How so?
Why not? ... The same logic naming me a Don could be used to name Louis Don.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I'm curious as to why you wanted to protect Pannonian.

He seems like his usual self. And even if he's mafia he'll be a voice of reason in finding other families.


Why not? ... The same logic naming me a Don could be used to name Louis Don.

Drisos said you were a don and TS was on your team. I don't think he gave any logic. But mafia teams have three members, so why couldn't louis be the third member?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Yes sasaki. I have no reason to trust you.

Yes I am a wise guy. So? I cant join you under false circumstances? The only evidence we have of you is that you left a protection group last night.

I didn't trust you to pick a protection target.

So, you are a wise guy who has been attempting to network. If you network with other wise guys you can start your own family. If you wanted to be a townie why not join a protection group? If you wanted to be sure that the protection group worked, why not tell us what it was for? Why won't you reveal who was in your killing group?

Many wise guys joined mafia groups or formed their own last game. If you wanted to do that, and someone contacts you now that you have made it public, you could. Not trustworthy.

[Lt. Pinard]

Vote:Glenn

Cause of the sketchy way he got away from death.

[Craterus]

TS has to be scummy. From what we know (if it's all true and I believe most of it probably is), he's probably a Luca. Lynching him would leave a Don unprotected (Sigurd/Louis? I'm thinking Sigurd right now, laughing off (:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:) the accusation just had mafia written all over it). So with TS out of the way, I'm quite happy for the mafia families to take out the unprotected Don.

Before roles were handed out, TS PM'd me about working together in this. It was written in a style similar to our old conversations (light-hearted etc.) After roles went out, I got the serious recruitment PM followed by further intimidating stuff. Withholding information, all that stuff. For me, this proves - or as good as - that he had an agenda.

His comments to Sigurd following Drisos' reveal (are we supposed to be using that? It's kind of hard to ignore.) are suspicios too. As Sasaki pointed out.

I don't think Glenn is the right lynch tonight (foregone conclusion by now?) because he's still giving information. I guess it could be false though.

unvote pevergreen - he can wait.
vote The Stranger

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Why not? ... The same logic naming me a Don could be used to name Louis Don.

I'm not sure I quite understand here. According to Glen, both you and Louis were protected by groups. If either of you were Dons, surely you'd have had your Luca's protecting you.

[Csargo]

Yes sasaki. I have no reason to trust you.

Yes I am a wise guy. So? I cant join you under false circumstances? The only evidence we have of you is that you left a protection group last night.

It's strange you would ask someone to be part of one of your group's without trusting them.

[Tratorix]

Vote:Glenn

He's acting very defensive whenever accused, he was protected by a lone person(likely a Luca) and he is very determined to stay alive, which a basic townie wouldn't be. He may turn out to be innocent, but we should take the risk, since if he is guilty he's a Don.

Also, FOS: norwegian nerd(for his comment about his "buddy")

[Csargo]

I'm not sure I quite understand here. According to Glen, both you and Louis were protected by groups. If either of you were Dons, surely you'd have had your Luca's protecting you.

If they can get the Don's protected by a townie group the Luca's can do other things. Though it's risky to do so. That seems to be what's happened in a couple of cases.

[Sigurd]

Drisos said you were a don and TS was on your team. I don't think he gave any logic. But mafia teams have three members, so why couldn't louis be the third member?
True...

Well, what game are you playing The Stranger? Inquiring minds want to know.

[Craterus]

Vote:Glenn [cut]
he is very determined to stay alive, which a basic townie wouldn't be. [cut]

I don't think that's a fair point. This is his first mafia game? I was very concerned with self-preservation when I started playing, probably still am a bit now.

[Xiahou]

vote: Glenn
He's the clear choice this round. He could have been protected by a doctor- if so, that says nothing of his innocence. If he was protected by a Luca, he's very clearly scum.

[Sigurd]

(Sigurd/Louis? I'm thinking Sigurd right now, laughing off (:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:) the accusation just had mafia written all over it)

Put your self in my shoes.
I made a few posts commenting on Sasaki and GH. Then following the results of night one, I join the 'suspicion towards Glenn' group pointing out his lone protector.
Suddenly I am accused by a dead man of being a Don. Then the player I voted to lynch, throws out accusations of me being involved with a Alpha group and a Beta group, sounding as I was the originator of both.

I was thinking right there and then that either Sasaki or GH was behind a smear campaign against my character because I came too close to the truth.
I was laughing hard at my keyboard because it would have been a brilliant play.

I realise now that this is all due to The Stranger's wacky play.. He has been know to play ... well, strange.

[naut]

Glenn's actions yesterday were edgy, that's not to say he was the only one. Several people caught the public spotlight for their edgy display's yesterday.

My vote may change, but for the moment I want to see how Glenn responds to numerous accusations.

Vote: Glenn

[Hannibalbarc]

How many votes make a lynch?

[TruePraetorian]

TS has to be scummy. From what we know (if it's all true and I believe most of it probably is), he's probably a Luca. Lynching him would leave a Don unprotected (Sigurd/Louis? I'm thinking Sigurd right now, laughing off (:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:) the accusation just had mafia written all over it). So with TS out of the way, I'm quite happy for the mafia families to take out the unprotected Don.

Before roles were handed out, TS PM'd me about working together in this. It was written in a style similar to our old conversations (light-hearted etc.) After roles went out, I got the serious recruitment PM followed by further intimidating stuff. Withholding information, all that stuff. For me, this proves - or as good as - that he had an agenda.

His comments to Sigurd following Drisos' reveal (are we supposed to be using that? It's kind of hard to ignore.) are suspicios too. As Sasaki pointed out.

I don't think Glenn is the right lynch tonight (foregone conclusion by now?) because he's still giving information. I guess it could be false though.

unvote pevergreen - he can wait.
vote The Stranger

I agree with Craterus.
I was recruited by The Stranger last night to protect Loius the Fat. Here is the thread he told me to use:

We, Dutch_Guy, Glenn and TruePraetorian will protect this night, Louis VI The Fat.
I after I found out Glenn was in the group, I wanted out. I PMed him to let me out of the group, and he sent me this:


sweet jesus PT you are not pulling this kinda :daisy: on me... i told you... no way to back out... you are doing this protection... you can back out next time...

but you are sending the pm tonight otherwise you will be prime candidate for lynch tomorrow...

working with glenn isnt going to affect you... you know why... because nobody wouldve known it... if he dies... so what... nobody wouldve known you wouldve worked with him... now... people do...

and we are not protecting him... were protecting louise... and if he dies tomorrow... i know who to blame.

so... make your choice mate... what better way to prove innocent than working in a ptgroup

The PT thing is not an accident, it is quoted as is.

Now, you can ask Glenn, I PMed him personally to let him know how I felt. I will show you the PM if you want. I told him that I didn't want to be associated with him due to the fact he was "taking fire". He understood this, and we had an agreement not to let everyone else know we worked togehter. I understand why he broke the agreement; To clear his name of course. I am not attacking him, but I am also not defending him. He might as well be lynched, I think he is acting more then a "little" scummy. I just think The Stranger is not taking enough fire for his actions.

He also never told me why we were protecting Loiuse...Mafia maybe?

Also, I'm going to double post because I can't find a quote that I wanted to comment on.

Vote: The Stranger

Shouldn't have threatened me into that protection group.

[Husar]

Vote: Sigurd

well, I believe Drisos and I found it suspicious that Sigurd selected me as director. Now why is that? Well, last time someone was really nice to me, that person was scummy and besides, Sigurd knows me quite well and may have wanted to get my support by being nice to me, unfortunately I'm aware of my weaknesses. :whip:

[Tratorix]

I don't think that's a fair point. This is his first mafia game? I was very concerned with self-preservation when I started playing, probably still am a bit now.

It's his second I believe, and he claimed to have read through quite a few of the older mafia games here. Therefore, he should know this kind of selfish attitude tends to get you lynched. Besides, he's really the best lynch for now, as he seems scummy because of his actions in the thread basically all the accusations against other people are based on pm quotes or information from people who could very well be lying.

[TruePraetorian]

I'm innocent, but it doesn't matter if I'm innocent or not, it's my life I'm concerned about.

However, if I say what I know.. and I know alot.. and people believe me, then alot of nasty people are going to hang.

And I will die, won't I Stranger?



@ Glenn

stop threathening me... tell me what dirt you supposedly got on me... bring it

stop twisting my words

Why would you recruit him if obviously he is suspicous of you too? Unless, he does know things you dont want released? Or maybe, he doesn't know any secrets at all, your just playing the "me and you are enemies" game, when actually you are both Mafia?

Scummy, TS, scummy scummy scummy scummy...

[PershsNhpios]

It is my second, my first was Fimbulwinter, which started 3 days ago..

Generally, everyone attempts self preservation in a Mafia game - you can't be part of a victory if you are dead.

So that is a terrible excuse for lynching someone.

Next, the main excuse is that I was either protected by a Luca, or a Doctor, and seeing as a Doctor still doesn't prove my innocence, but a Luca would prove my guilt.

How is that rational if you don't know who protected me in any case?

--------------------------------------------

In response to 10 votes, I only have a limited time to play this game, and if I can spend the very first few turns exposing a Mafia family, then I've succeeded in my own part.

I am glad TruePraetorian came forward, he was very suspicious of me when I sent both him and Dutch_Guy PMs to ensure I wasn't being fooled.

As for Pevergreen, there was strong evidence that he, Pannonian and Beefy187 were connected.

When Woad&Fangs sent out his letter asking for a protection group, he sent it to Beefy187, but not to Pannonian or Pevergreen of course.

Beefy187 refused. Makayane can confirm who the letter was sent to.

Beefy then suggested to me it would be a good idea to infiltrate Pevergreen's group to find out what was occuring, and volunteered himself very quickly.
I did not trust this, I asked Pannonian in a letter to tell me what was going on between him and Pevergreen or else he would attract my distrust.

He never responded.

Pevergreen responded by posting my PM, which shows how he intended to kill W&F first - note how he has subtly tried to lynch him.

I think both Woad&Fangs are innocent, however I think they both have at least tried to recruit a large amount of people, for themselves or for the Mafia.

---------------------------------------------

Notice also how Sigurd first dismissed complaints against himself and Stranger, then began pushing against both Stranger and Louis VI when I mentioned the latter.

------------------

Hope to god someone takes this seriously and acts on it, publicly or not..

I've done a lot of studying in the background during my Day 1, Night 1 silence..

I believe Sasaki is innocent.

[Tiberius of the Drake]

Just curious. is it possible that a new thread could be opened where all the night summaries could be placed and where a current list of alive members could be?

[Pannonian]

Just curious. is it possible that a new thread could be opened where all the night summaries could be placed and where a current list of alive members could be?
Yes. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=89205)


Generally, everyone attempts self preservation in a Mafia game - you can't be part of a victory if you are dead.

So that is a terrible excuse for lynching someone.
Actually, it's one of the main principles of Mafia games that one can die and yet win, as long as one's team wins. I came up with some interesting strategies in the last Capo game, based on this principle.

[norwegian nerd]

Vote:abstain

As for acusations against me here is a message from my buddy

"I wish I could vouch for norwegian nerd in public, but unfortunately I have a pro town role, and as such I won't be revealing any time soon. I am forbidden from revealing norwegian nerd's role.

It seems therefore that there is no way we can proove his innocence. I hope that you will accept that he slipped up (perhaps due to inexperience). I also hope that you believe that were he mafia, he would have known better. (Yes I know that's a classic defensive argument, but would a mafia really be so daft as to claim knowledge of a 'buddy' in his first post, without ever being accused of anything)

So this is a plea to your common sense, norwegian nerd is innocent, simply inexperienced."

[PershsNhpios]

Norwegian, you have played more games than I myself.
You play on other forums.

[norwegian nerd]

You can ask CountArach how much I play and how recently the last one was.

[PershsNhpios]

You said Count Arach knew very little of you, and had only seen you on this other forum.

[norwegian nerd]

And that is the other forum where I have played mafia. I think maybe 4 games max before this. Its irrelevent either way the level of individual gamers wasn't as high in my opinion as well as the last active mafia game.

[Pannonian]

Can we not go into too much detail into what goes on in other forums? Firstly, we can't check out the truth for ourselves. Secondly, it takes the fun out of the game when two or three people are busy discussing something the rest of us would have no perspective on.

[Joe Monks]

Well I Vote:Glenn. I agree with those who say that it is likely that it was a luca protecting his Don.

Also FOS:Norwegian Nerd and Pevergreen.

Joe

[PershsNhpios]

Thank you, Joe Monks, your insight astounds me.

[CountArach]

I haven't read the last 3 pages yet, I'll get to that after I post this. First of all, for GH's vote on me here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1825376&postcount=313).
As I explained later, I had missed the part where the Director was immune to night killing. It wasn't until I looked it up later after someone mentioned something about it that I realised they would be protected and changed my selection to Kommodus. I have a track record of missing rules and things like that which I am sure you can look up if you want to. I am intrigued as to why you only brought it up now instead of when you posted a few posts after me. No suspicion here, just curious.

I also thought I would add something to this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1825360&postcount=309)post by Andres. I would think that pever was responsible for protecting Beefy, if he had any protection at all. It is well known that they are friends outside of the Org. However, it is entirely likely that Beefy can't be night killed, in which case we should keep around because I don't believe that any of the mafia roles would have that. It just doesn't seem normal for Capo, where the Town is empowered at night as well as during the day.

I'm personally wondering what happened to the mafia families. There should have been a whole host of mafia groups and so far only one, maybe two attempted a night killing.

[Tiberius of the Drake]

Vote:Abstain


Ive been to out of the loop for this rounf to make a good vote. it might be changed if I get the time to read the last three pages.

[Csargo]

Where's Kommodus? And what do you think about the current events?

[pevergreen]

The protection group on beefy did not succeeed.

Its pevergreen please.

My intentions are clear. The kill group was clearly made solely for the protection credit, which was not given.

[CountArach]

Well if people are still in doubt, here is why, in my opinion, Glenn should be the one to go:
Post 332 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1825453&postcount=332)

Now, I have some dangerous information regarding you, Fafnesbane, it isn't much, but it involves one of your recruiters and his two protection groups, Alpha and Beta.
This doesn't help anyone. It sets him up as a target for Sigurd's attack and does not reveal anything to the town. Yet still, as a target, he must know he can be protected from any possible retribution coming back. Perhaps he has a Luca waiting for him in protection?

I think, regarding my own protection, that it was either enemies setting me up to be important, (Though if my enemies protected me - who is there to attack me?), or I have been mistaken for a greater pro-townie role.
An unlikely situation. Surely a more likely one would be a townie protection group? His enemies would much rather protect their own Don or someone else with their Luca(s), I am sure.

Post 336 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1825461&postcount=336)

Hmmm.. Note the two very lean, dismissive posts above me.

Though I doubt they are connected.
In one of those two posts Sigurd asked him a question about his previous post. Note the deflection and refusal to answer the question. Why is he keeping information back from the town?

Post 345 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1825479&postcount=345)

I'm innocent, but it doesn't matter if I'm innocent or not, it's my life I'm concerned about.

However, if I say what I know.. and I know alot.. and people believe me, then alot of nasty people are going to hang.

And I will die, won't I Stranger?
Quite possibly the most scummy post he has made. The first line tells us that he does not care about furthering the town's cause. Why is his life more important than any one of ours, especially if, as he says in the second line "alot of nasty people are going to hang." Surely that means it is a victory for everyone? As for the third line he again sets himself up as a target for someone else.

Post 358 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1825517&postcount=358)

What do I have to lose?

The possibility of gaining more information, and having a more productive role in the game - in other words, life!
At this point it makes it sound as if he has a night role similar to a Detective, whereas, from what we known from TruePraetorian he probably knows something about The Stranger from his night protection attempt offer.


Protection Group Alpha, recruited by Stranger.
Glenn, Dutch_Guy, TruePraetorian

Protection Group Beta, recruited by - Stranger?
Drisos, Moros, Andres
Perhaps something useful from him. If we somehow confirm that he is correct, we must ask ourselves - what did The Stranger himself do last night?

Step forward, protectees, what was the reason for being recruited into this?
Considering I received my recruitment PM about one hour after game start, this all seemed too organised to be township.
We know for a fact that a lot of people have being recruiting groups and being recruited into them and many people just simply do it to help the town. However, he claims that just because he got his PM early it is well organised. This seems unlikely because the mafia wouldn't have had the time to organise something like this.

Another interesting thing is a PM from TS that he posts:

for a person with so much info... you know awefully little... tell me something you know and I don't before ill be putting a bit of pressure on you...

I did not handle by sigurd... hes not my boss... but if you do not start telling me stuff you end up dead... you might as well tell me stuff that can save you so i can vouch for your innocense... this is not the way you to end CDTC... not this early
I'm not sure what to think of it. It seems genuine to me... However, I also think that strangely this could conceivably be a way to show TS's innocence. I doubt that TS would come forward so obviously threatening if he were in the Mafia - that is a WIFOM issue though.

Vote: Glenn

[Crazed Rabbit]

vote: glenn - he hasn't even tried the 'a doctor saved me' defense, which is the only possible defense for being saved in the way he was.

CR

[Tiberius of the Drake]

Unvote:Abstain
Vote:Glenn

the combination of CA and CR's posts have done two fold for me

a.) save me the trouble of reading 3 pages of accusations
B.) convinced me of the true guilt of Glenn who i already had suspcions of

[scottishranger]

The Stranger has been acting pretty out of wack to me. I don't know why more people dont notice, but he has been incredibly defense when no one even accuses him of anything really.

True Preatorians post also really convinced me that there is definetly something fishy with Stranger.

I vote The Stranger

[Tran]

Do I smell bandwagon?

https://img258.imageshack.us/img258/5050/emotbandwagonqr2.gifhttps://img258.imageshack.us/img258/5050/emotbandwagonqr2.gifhttps://img258.imageshack.us/img258/5050/emotbandwagonqr2.gif

Vote: molonthegreat

Not a single post in here. What's your thought?

[KukriKhan]

We have 3 sources of information: this thread, the Rules of Play thread (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=98632), and PM's.

I give the most weight to the info provided by the game-meister; it's the most likely to be undisputeably true, if (necessarily) sketchy. Next, I regard stuff in this thread as 50-50 speculation. Finally, PM's seem mostly unreliable to me in this game setting, until trust is built up later in the game.

So, looking at the night1 write-up:

-Beefy187's attempted snuff story is just odd - 4 malfunctioning weapons, twice? Wow. Sabotage, obviously, but by whom? A doctor or surgeon? If pevergreen's reveal is believed, he sent the hit team.

-Drisos' episode alludes to his preference for working alone, so maybe he's one of those "secret" roles

A Serial Killer who took violent objection to anyone voting for them to be lynched; A Rogue Detective who could investigate and then act as a vigilante; and The Wolf, who was a special “investigation spoofer” for the mafia.
One of his killers is described as having a false asian accent (and says "Sayonara, Drisos"), probably hinting that the killer is one of Drisos' co-posters in the Shogun:TW forums (Sasaki Kojiro?). The 'ballet slippers' have me stumped, but sound like a sign of a mafia whack, along with their undetectable entry and escape.

-Glenn's vignette has all the signs of a Don being protected by his Luca, (why would a doctor masquerade as a pretzel guy with a motorized, armored cart?) pursued by a rival Don's hit team.

-Xdeathfire's story points up to a Serial Killer attempted hit (which removes one option of 'secret role' from Drisos speculation). His running to the police precinct for protection leads one to believe he's likely some kinda pro-townie role.

So,
Vote:Glenn

16 glenn(kamikhaan,xehh2,Ichigo,Sigurd,Sasaki,Big King Sanctaphrax,Kagemusha, Sarathos, Hannibalbarc,pevergreen,Lt. Pinard,Brave Sir Robin,Xiahou,Rythmic, Joe Monks, Kukri )
4 pevergreen(andres,tincow,little grizzly)
2 Beefy(shlin, pannonian)
2 sigurd(prole, Husar)
2 The Stranger (Craterus, True Praetorian,)
1 CountArach(GH)
1 norwegian nerd(omanes)


2 abstain (norwegian nerd, Tiberius of the Drake)
-----------------------------------
-edit- to fix the count:
19 glenn(kamikhaan,xehh2,Ichigo,Sigurd,Sasaki,Big King Sanctaphrax,Kagemusha, Sarathos, Hannibalbarc,pevergreen,Lt. Pinard,Brave Sir Robin,Xiahou,Rythmic, Joe Monks, Kukri, Count Arach,Crazed Rabbit,Tiberius of the Drake )
4 pevergreen(andres,tincow,little grizzly)
2 Beefy(shlin, pannonian)
1 CountArach(GH)
1 norwegian nerd(omanes)
2 sigurd(prole, Husar)
3 The Stranger (Craterus, True Praetorian,scottishranger)
1 abstain (norwegian nerd,)
1 molonthegreat (Tran)

[Sasaki Kojiro]

-Xdeathfire's story points up to a Serial Killer attempted hit (which removes one option of 'secret role' from Drisos speculation). His running to the police precinct for protection leads one to believe he's likely some kinda pro-townie role.

I think this can be ruled out by the description. Xdeathfire wasn't saved, the lone attacker failed. Which means some killing party didn't have adequate numbers.


-Beefy187's attempted snuff story is just odd - 4 malfunctioning weapons, twice? Wow. Sabotage, obviously, but by whom? A doctor or surgeon? If pevergreen's reveal is believed, he sent the hit team.

I find it extremely interesting. Initially I thought he was a special role, then my theory was that he was in the mafia and one of his buddies was on the attacking group and since usually mafia can't kill their partners Seamus wrote in a sabotage. However:



Stunningly, all 4 freshly-loaded weapons jammed and failed to fire again. The gunmen were shocked with disbelief. No one could have tampered with the weapons and all of the ammo had been checked by hand and meticulously loaded into the clips – yet none of the weapons got off a round.

After I reread it, they say it couldn't have been tampered with. So I think we can throw out that theory. Seems there is some supernatural explanation.

[woad&fangs]

Vote: Sigurd Fafnesbane
For some reason my mind is connecting Sigurd with ballet slippers.

Glenn sounds like a good lynch for today but we should keep dicussion going about other suspects. I think that Pevergreen's claim of wiseguy status can be believed. The only question is whether he is under the aegis of a mafioso or is he trying to turn townie.

[KukriKhan]

Seems there is some supernatural explanation.

Ooooo. Wrath of God, so early?

[Csargo]

After I reread it, they say it couldn't have been tampered with. So I think we can throw out that theory. Seems there is some supernatural explanation.

I doubt it. It seemed more like a failed townie group to me.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

It might well have been a townie group (Pever's?), but seeing as there were four of them there it seems unlikely it failed due to lack of numbers. I think Sasaki's right, it seems like beefy has some kind of special role.

[pevergreen]

Not failed. It was a failed protection from:
Tincow
Lord Winter
Sasaki Kojiro
Haudegen

Remember the red text? :yes:

[naut]

Unvote: Glenn
Vote: The Stranger

Every body has their eye's on Glenn, and it looks like he's going to be lynched. But, what True Praetorian has brought to light really makes The Stranger look out of line, not 100% scummy, but not 100% clean either. Just want to say I'm watching you TS.

2 abstain (norwegian nerd, Tiberius of the Drake)
-----------------------------------
18 glenn(kamikhaan,xehh2,Ichigo,Sigurd,Sasaki,Big King Sanctaphrax,Kagemusha, Sarathos, Hannibalbarc,pevergreen,Lt. Pinard,Brave Sir Robin,Xiahou,, Joe Monks, Kukri, Count Arach,Crazed Rabbit,Tiberius of the Drake )
4 pevergreen(andres,tincow,little grizzly)
2 Beefy(shlin, pannonian)
1 CountArach(GH)
1 norwegian nerd(omanes)
2 sigurd(prole, Husar)
4 The Stranger (Craterus, True Praetorian,scottishranger,Rythmic)
1 abstain (norwegian nerd,)
1 molonthegreat (Tran)

[TinCow]

Not failed. It was a failed protection from:
Tincow
Lord Winter
Sasaki Kojiro
Haudegen

Remember the red text? :yes:

I thought it was a successful protection. I DID submit my orders exactly as I said. I did not go back on my word. So, even if Sasaki backed out, one of the other two would have had to as well, and I saw no indication of that. It seems to me to be a properly organized hit and a properly organized protection, albeit without the obvious cues in the story.

That, of course, assumes that the stories aren't that blatantly obvious. If they usually are, then my belief is of course invalid.

[Csargo]

Something seems fishy about Sasaki, but I can't quite put my finger on it.

[Tiberius of the Drake]

2 abstain (norwegian nerd, Tiberius of the Drake)
-----------------------------------
18 glenn(kamikhaan,xehh2,Ichigo,Sigurd,Sasaki,Big King Sanctaphrax,Kagemusha, Sarathos, Hannibalbarc,pevergreen,Lt. Pinard,Brave Sir Robin,Xiahou,, Joe Monks, Kukri, Count Arach,Crazed Rabbit,Tiberius of the Drake )
4 pevergreen(andres,tincow,little grizzly)
2 Beefy(shlin, pannonian)
1 CountArach(GH)
1 norwegian nerd(omanes)
2 sigurd(prole, Husar)
4 The Stranger (Craterus, True Praetorian,scottishranger,Rythmic)
1 abstain (norwegian nerd,)
1 molonthegreat (Tran)


Ichanged my vote to vote for Glenn

[LittleGrizzly]

4 pevergreen(andres,tincow,little grizzly)

so are little and grizzly voting for pevergreen or am i just really bad at math ?

[pevergreen]

2 people back out. I dont know for sure who.

[Tratorix]

Since it appears to have been skipped over, i'd like to quote norwegian nerd's earlier post of a pm from his "buddy".


"I wish I could vouch for norwegian nerd in public, but unfortunately I have a pro town role, and as such I won't be revealing any time soon. I am forbidden from revealing norwegian nerd's role.

It seems therefore that there is no way we can proove his innocence. I hope that you will accept that he slipped up (perhaps due to inexperience). I also hope that you believe that were he mafia, he would have known better. (Yes I know that's a classic defensive argument, but would a mafia really be so daft as to claim knowledge of a 'buddy' in his first post, without ever being accused of anything)

So this is a plea to your common sense, norwegian nerd is innocent, simply inexperienced."

I'm wondering whether or not we should pursue this. If this person is telling the truth and has a pro-town role, we could end up shooting ourselves in the foot.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I thought it was a successful protection. I DID submit my orders exactly as I said. I did not go back on my word. So, even if Sasaki backed out, one of the other two would have had to as well, and I saw no indication of that. It seems to me to be a properly organized hit and a properly organized protection, albeit without the obvious cues in the story.

That, of course, assumes that the stories aren't that blatantly obvious. If they usually are, then my belief is of course invalid.

LordWinter, Haudegan, and I decided to protect pannonian instead. I don't think LordWinter got his pm in on time.

[pevergreen]

NN was part of a group i co-ordinated last night.

[pevergreen]

LordWinter, Haudegan, and I decided to protect pannonian instead. I don't think LordWinter got his pm in on time.
So if thats true, why didnt you tell me? TinCow could have been killed?

[CountArach]

What I find most interesting in that PM is "I am forbidden from revealing norwegian nerd's role." I can't think why, except for the obvious thing that they aren't going to reveal.

Also the use of the use of the word "daft" perhaps points to someone British or of British decent.

[PershsNhpios]

Count Aracticus, if you haven't read the last three pages, how can you claim I'm withholding information?

I thought I could clarify I wasn't withholding information by giving the public two pages of it.

Your ignorance, and the like ignorance, are going to ensure my death was in vain.

19 votes!

I can only hope someone listened to what I said, because I gave away a far sight more than anyone else, and if you go pack through the pages here - there are some telltale signs that the people I mention are linked.

There are good people out there I have met, I want those people to pursue this!

[CountArach]

Count Aracticus, if you haven't read the last three pages, how can you claim I'm withholding information?

I thought I could clarify I wasn't withholding information by giving the public two pages of it.

Your ignorance, and the like ignorance, are going to ensure my death was in vain.

19 votes!

I can only hope someone listened to what I said, because I gave away a far sight more than anyone else, and if you go pack through the pages here - there are some telltale signs that the people I mention are linked.

There are good people out there I have met, I want those people to pursue this!
Link me to this information.

[PershsNhpios]

Here is the information, I simply glued the two posts together.
It won't save me, but it will point the finger at the right people.

---------------
It is my second, my first was Fimbulwinter, which started 3 days ago..

Generally, everyone attempts self preservation in a Mafia game - you can't be part of a victory if you are dead.

So that is a terrible excuse for lynching someone.

Next, the main excuse is that I was either protected by a Luca, or a Doctor, and seeing as a Doctor still doesn't prove my innocence, but a Luca would prove my guilt.

How is that rational if you don't know who protected me in any case?

--------------------------------------------

In response to 10 votes, I only have a limited time to play this game, and if I can spend the very first few turns exposing a Mafia family, then I've succeeded in my own part.

I am glad TruePraetorian came forward, he was very suspicious of me when I sent both him and Dutch_Guy PMs to ensure I wasn't being fooled.

As for Pevergreen, there was strong evidence that he, Pannonian and Beefy187 were connected.

When Woad&Fangs sent out his letter asking for a protection group, he sent it to Beefy187, but not to Pannonian or Pevergreen of course.

Beefy187 refused. Makayane can confirm who the letter was sent to.

Beefy then suggested to me it would be a good idea to infiltrate Pevergreen's group to find out what was occuring, and volunteered himself very quickly.
I did not trust this, I asked Pannonian in a letter to tell me what was going on between him and Pevergreen or else he would attract my distrust.

He never responded.

Pevergreen responded by posting my PM, which shows how he intended to kill W&F first - note how he has subtly tried to lynch him.

I think both Woad&Fangs are innocent, however I think they both have at least tried to recruit a large amount of people, for themselves or for the Mafia.

---------------------------------------------

Notice also how Sigurd first dismissed complaints against himself and Stranger, then began pushing against both Stranger and Louis VI when I mentioned the latter.

------------------

Hope to god someone takes this seriously and acts on it, publicly or not..

I've done a lot of studying in the background during my Day 1, Night 1 silence..

I believe Sasaki is innocent.
*************************************************************************************

What do I have to lose?

The possibility of gaining more information, and having a more productive role in the game - in other words, life!

I am unsure of some things, but I know names that can come forward and set things perfectly.

Protection Group Alpha, recruited by Stranger.
Glenn, Dutch_Guy, TruePraetorian

Protection Group Beta, recruited by - Stranger?
Drisos, Moros, Andres

Alpha protected Louis VI the Fat.

Beta protected Sigurd Fafnesbane.

Step forward, protectees, what was the reason for being recruited into this?
Considering I received my recruitment PM about one hour after game start, this all seemed too organised to be township.

You all must of realised also, if we can all give some evidence on this we can put this little Mafia away - and only one of us will die, myself. How romantic.

I have to go, this is a busy day for me, (Actually), so this is a quick reply.
For that reason I can't add this PM in a quote - but what difference does that make? The difference is wether you believe me or not.

A PM from Stranger recently:

for a person with so much info... you know awefully little... tell me something you know and I don't before ill be putting a bit of pressure on you...

I did not handle by sigurd... hes not my boss... but if you do not start telling me stuff you end up dead... you might as well tell me stuff that can save you so i can vouch for your innocense... this is not the way you to end CDTC... not this early

************************************************************************************************

[PershsNhpios]

Glenn had always been a bit excitable, and with the prospect of having to vote to lynch somebody, his heart was racing and he had trouble staying still. <<I need a bracer, just to calm my nerves a bit,>> he thought, and began to walk up the street towards the Hotel Abbatoir and Fatlington’s poshest bar.

His walk there was anything but relaxing, with Glenn spinning at every stray sound or voice that seemed out of place. Finally, he was steps away from the hotel’s entrance when four dark figures stood up from the expensively landscaped bushes surrounding the hotel’s small entryway garden and flagpole – and all of them had tommy guns.

In the second before the gunmen opened fire, a nearby street pretzel vendor made two quick steps toward Glenn, lifted him bodily and flung him into the open bin of the pretzel cart. The gunman paused a moment, stunned by this unexpected event, as the carter slammed the cart’s lid shut and started rolling the cart toward the hotel doors. Then they opened fire.

Round after round from their submachine guns slammed into the cart but the cart was apparently both motorized and heavily armored and rolled itself through the doors of the Abbatoir and directly into the bar where it crashed up against the bar itself. The doorman was badly wounded as he accidentally came under fire from the gunmen as they kept tracking the cart with their weapons ratcheting out rounds. None of them focused any rounds on the carter, however, who took the opportunity to dropp into the driver’s seat of a cab waiting at the hotel front and speed off. With sirens blaring and witnesses beginning to look at the racket, the gunmen gave up their efforts and faded back into the sweltering darkness.

It took a bit of effort to extract a stunned Glenn from cart, stained with mustard and freshly rolled in salt, but Glenn was alive and more-or-less well because someone -- or several? – had been there to help. He never did get that drink.
------------------------------------------

Also, here is my attack for reference - note that Seamus said I may of been protected by several, and that the doctor did not disguise himself as an iron cart.. I imagine that would be very difficult.

Note someone named the Hotel, "Abbatoir", an obvious attempt to frame Beefy.

I was also heading towards the poshest place in Fatlington, I like this, because it suggests I am better than everyone else.
Or maybe it is suggesting I'm an insolent, arrogant prick.
Either way, I'm going to hang..

"I feel so slender in the moooonlight, on Honoluuulu bay.."

[CountArach]

Even if your information leads to the killing of some Mafiosi then it won't matter because we still think you are one as well. Just a different family.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

How many votes make a lynch?

Capo uses a "first past the post" system when the voting time deadline has been reached, so no set number is required. most votes = lynch.

A tie is adjudicated by the Director as they see fit, lynching none, one, some or all of those who are part of the tie.

@Glenn

The Hotel Abbatoir featured in Capo I as well and is my invention.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Oh yes! In future rounds I feel the town should make use of the double lynch option. Vigilante groups should be abandoned until later in the game--it's important for detective results to be accurate.

[Twilightblade]

Even if your information leads to the killing of some Mafiosi then it won't matter because we still think you are one as well. Just a different family.

An excellent point CountArach, we must not forget that there are multiple familys

vote: Glenn

[naut]

so are little and grizzly voting for pevergreen or am i just really bad at math ?
Hahaha, woops, better change that tally:

18 Glenn(kamikhaan,xehh2,Ichigo,Sigurd,Sasaki,Big King Sanctaphrax,Kagemusha, Sarathos, Hannibalbarc,pevergreen,Lt. Pinard,Brave Sir Robin,Xiahou,, Joe Monks, Kukri, Count Arach,Crazed Rabbit,Tiberius of the Drake)
3 pevergreen(andres,tincow,LittleGrizzly)
2 Beefy(shlin, pannonian)
1 CountArach(GH)
1 norwegian nerd(omanes)
2 sigurd(prole, Husar)
4 The Stranger (Craterus, True Praetorian,scottishranger,Rythmic)
1 abstain (norwegian nerd)
1 molonthegreat (Tran)

[Northnovas]

Wow that is a lot of reading!:book:
Some good points raised but I nothing is clear. I will use my first vote like other first rounds and abstain.
Please remember, I am the other NN.

[PershsNhpios]

What attracted my distrust to Pannonian?

At the same time W&F asked me about the protection group, I PMed Pannonian to ask him if we could try and help each other determine correct speculation, even if we could stay neutral in doing so.

I did this because he was being rational in thread, and because he was not blatantly attacking me.

I mentioned in the PM I was asked to join a protection group, (Or Doctor group as he called it), with Woad&Fangs.

Pannonian then returned two PMs very quickly, asking two times if Woad&Fangs and myself would like to help him protect Pevergreen.
Pannonian knew of the grudge - I told him.

Before I could even ask Woad&Fangs what was going on, he PMed me saying, "Don't tell anyone else about the protector group" and then he was offline for a long time - hence his absence in replying to everyone's demands.
At the same time as this PM, Pevergreen sent me a PM, though I had neither talked to him or suggested him in thread, saying that Woad's plot to kill him would not last.

He quoted this PM himself some pages back, when he tried to make Woad seem guilty.

I asked Pannonian why he would tell Pevergreen if I hadn't even given he himself my trust, and our conversation quickly died away..

[Cowhead418]

I'm not yet convinced of anyone's guilt, so I'll Vote: Abstain this round.

[Csargo]

Wrong tab...

[CountArach]

Currently no one is active. I'm all alone and it's pretty scary. Oh there's Disco.
I'm here...

[Csargo]

I'm here...

Wrong thread.

[PershsNhpios]

Awwww... Come on BovineFace!

If you vote for me then I'll have twenty votes!

But then, I could have a role that requires twenty votes, and the twentieth voter will automatically die.

Why would I say something like that?
Have I something to hide?
Am I withholding something?
Townies don't withhold things..
If I'm withholding something, and Townies don't withhold things, then how can I be a townie?

I think Glenn is weird, his writing style is not up front and requires a deal of insight to read at times - also, he has been very active and enthusiastic, and alot of people have put his name in bold writing.

Wait.. alot of people have put his name in bold writing.. that's enough for me.

Vote: Glenn Because everyone else did, and I think he is a little too eccentric to be found on a internet forum.

[PershsNhpios]

Oh, by the way, I kept Woad&Fangs Doctor Group PM - it is the same as Pevergreen posted, but he had deleted the names inside the message.

Woad&Fangs notified all recipients that the others were;

Beefy
Makanyane
Glenn
Sarathos
taka


Did any of these people agree to join with woad?

[Kommodus]

Looks like it'd be a bit pointless for me to vote at this stage, so:

Vote: Abstain

The thread got away from me a bit; I'll review when I have more time, but for now I'll ask this question in case someone said it and I missed it: has anyone stepped forward to acknowledge protecting Glenn?

Anyway, Glenn: how would you prefer to die? Your options are:

1. Commit seppuku (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seppuku) and die in an honorable (albeit painful) way.

2. Eat a scrumptious meal, and wash it down with a glass of wine laced with strychnine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strychnine).

3. Strapped to a chair along with a block of TNT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TNT_%28explosive%29). Quickest method I could think of.

[PershsNhpios]

I'd like to get in a ring with any one of you, along with their non-firearm weapon of choice, and mine - my beautiful Swiss Pattern Bayonet.

[CountArach]

has anyone stepped forward to acknowledge protecting Glenn?
Not that I am aware of - that is why we are considering a Luca quite probable.

And Kommo - If you do not wish to accept Glenn's challenge, I shall.

[PershsNhpios]

"There's something tender in the moooonlight, on Honoluuuuooolu Bay.."

On a less gameplay, suspicion orientated note - I am disappointed there aren't a great amount of people taking part here.
Sure, there are probably a great many who are simpling PMing and watching, look how many small time crooks came in to vote their lynch on me, only to disappear..

But that still leaves an estimate of about 40 players inactive....

[CountArach]

Actually less than 10 people haven't posted. It is past midnight in the US and early morning elsewhere, so they will post eventually.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Vote: Abstain.

Don't have time to read all these shenanigans.

[Sarathos]

Oh, by the way, I kept Woad&Fangs Doctor Group PM - it is the same as Pevergreen posted, but he had deleted the names inside the message.

Woad&Fangs notified all recipients that the others were;

Beefy
Makanyane
Glenn
Sarathos
taka


Did any of these people agree to join with woad?

Whether we all did or none of us did is really no consellation because your still going to be lynched. And the whole 'get others before you die' isnt really working. For one Beefy got attacked so I think thats him out, and two you said it was a pm about a doctor group. Now as far as role changes go we would probably all have to be town to agree. Unless you want to get some town lynched I don't know why this is of any significance, other than two your mafia buddies.

Your downfall is at hand Glenn, pleading your way out will only harshen the punishment.

[PershsNhpios]

Really? I'm sorry - I didn't realise.. I thought there must be a great number because I was expecting upwards of 6 killings, 12 if everyone started butchering.

There were many protections occurring then.. or everyone was very tired!

Why do you think I'm pleading Sarathos?

I've spent an hour or so today reading my name over and over again, I know I'm lynched - that doesn't mean you can't pay attention to what I say.

.. What do you mean harshen the punishment? Are you going to kill me in another Mafia game too? Or just twice in this one?

------------------------------------------------

Who else here despises the group of people who are abstaining because they can't be bothered to pay attention and play the game?
You may as well be inactive.

Even worse are the ones who won't read any of the arguments of anyone, yet still think they have sufficient evidence to kill someone.

[Makanyane]

Oh, by the way, I kept Woad&Fangs Doctor Group PM - it is the same as Pevergreen posted, but he had deleted the names inside the message.

Woad&Fangs notified all recipients that the others were;

Beefy
Makanyane
Glenn
Sarathos
taka


Did any of these people agree to join with woad?
not me, not convinced by story yet I'm afraid, though at least that confirmed that list was same as on the pm I got sent (I'd wondered about point of putting it there and if the list might actually have been different according to who it was sent to). I'm not voting on lynch till later today to see if any more info comes out of the thread. Though I do think Glenn probably needs to go, but also .....


FoS: pevergreen - sorry but an admitted wise guy going all out to recruit a bunch of separate groups who you'd like to trust you completely and operate in the dark from each other, hmmmm.

FoS: woad&fangs - that whole first pm smells so badly of a deliberate ploy. Unless every one else thinks he's such a bad player as to indulge his grudge by making it public to those he pm'd and later in thread. All he's actually done is make it least likely that pevergreen would be attacked by vigilantes (no valid game reason given - when he could easily have tried to make up something he 'knew' about pever's role) and he also handed pevergreen the perfect excuse to get a protection group guarding him on a plate....

So is w&f that bad a player? Or is the grudge between them really so bad it would overrule the desire to win if chance put them in same family - its so perfect cover.....?
.....only trouble is now I think I suspect everybody, GAH!


a couple of people have hinted at the idea of getting multiple lynches by getting a tied vote, does anyone think that is worth going for, when we seem to have quite a few dubious characters around who may have protection from vigilante action at night? It would put the final decision down to the director who could decide to let both / all off, which could be a draw back if he's a wrongun, but that would also force him to show his hand..........

[Drisos]

Hey, I ought to do an apology. Hadn't properly read the rules, have looked more into the 'dead' stuff now, and seems what I posted was inappropriate at that stage after my death. Sorry! Should've read the rules properly beforehand :(

[pevergreen]

@everyone who is accusing me of not revealing names to others linked through me.

Everyone who turned up now has a full list of everyone that I co-ordinated last night.

[JimBob]

Can you people not see a bandwagon when it shows up? There are a lot of special roles that we know nothing about. Maybe Glenn has a special ability that gives him a better chance to survive. Maybe a doctor protected him. Why would that doctor come out? They'd only be a target for the mafia.

Let's not have the town go around doing the mob's work. When we kill people let's do it with firm knowledge. Let us not crown some Don king of Fatlington.

[pevergreen]

Glenn 34
The Stranger 32
Sasaki Kojiro 27
Ichigo 26
Andres 21
pevergreen 20
Pannonian 19
Moros 17
Sigurd Fafnesbane 16
Drisos 15
GeneralHankerchief 14
CountArach 14
norwegian nerd 12
Seamus Fermanagh 10
Omanes Alexandrapolites 8
Kagemusha 8
scottishranger 7
Husar 7
KukriKhan 6
Sarathos 6
Zorg 6
Craterus 6
Louis VI the Fat 6
Chimpyang 5
Tiberius of the Drake 5
RoadKill 5
Big King Sanctaphrax 5
woad&fangs 5
TinCow 4
Dutch_guy 4
Twilightblade 4
Myrddraal 4
Rythmic 4
TruePraetorian 4
kamikhaan 4
Brave_Sir_Robin 4
Xdeathfire 3
Xehh II 3
Elite Ferret 3
Joe Monks 3
Charge 3
Hannibalbarc 3
LittleGrizzly 3
Proletariat 3
Kommodus 2
Draco Leman 2
Northnovas 2
Makanyane 2
shlin28 2
Lt. Pinard 2
Crazed Rabbit 2
Tran 2
ajaxfetish 2
Alexander the Pretty Good 2
Xiahou 2
Evil_Maniac From Mars 2
Leet Eriksson 1
johnhughthom 1
Hiji 1
Warmaster Horus 1
gibsonsg91921 1
Motep 1
Caeser The III 1
taka 1
Cowhead418 1
Warluster 1
FactionHeir 1
Beefy187 1
Lord Winter 1
Caius 1


Caius, CR, Shin are not posting enough. 1 or 2 posts each. Normally they have mid range.

Glenn 34
The Stranger 32
Sasaki Kojiro 27
Ichigo 26
Andres 21
pevergreen 20

Nothing that odd in the top range. Im just not winning yet!

[pevergreen]

The dead may post, but not vote/select nor carry out any night actions. Dead players may not reveal their roles publicly or privately until that role has been revealed as per section V and may not reveal their “familiy” or role particulars even after that time. Dead players may not quote from a PM unless that PM has been posted in the public thread by a living player. Dead players may not reveal, recount or allude to their previous night actions (or results thereof in the case of investigations) publicly or privately – even to confirm a previously made public or private reveal. Remember, even if dead you can still score well provided your “side” achieves victory. Your participation must be circumspect, but your continued participation IS encouraged.

Rules for the dead.

[Zorg]

Wow, just wow.... That took me more than an hour to read through. Finnally done though.

Alot has been said, and being out of timezone as usual I guess the best thing for me to do is give my oppinions on who looks guilty. One of the advantages of this is I read it all in one sitting and thus see the trends developing a little more clearly.

In my mind at the moment there is a lot of very scummy behaviour out there, and quite a few lynchable targets. I'll go through who I think looks suspicious:

Norwegian - I don't buy that post, it didn't sound legitamate to me, and he still hasn't revealed. That said however, I think lynching him now isn't really the best idea as there are more obvious and cunning players who I belive to be more dangerous. I will be keeping my eye on him though.

W&f - Just placing him here because my suspicion from before lasts. He hasn't done anything to relieve it and seems to me to just be waiting for his name to be forgotten.

Pevergreen - I still don't trust him at all. I find his actions very suspicious and his posts never seem to be of any great use to the game other than to defend himself. I have yet to see any good arguments out of him, esspecialy for an self acclaimed townie leader.

Glenn - I'm not sure whether it was a luca or a doctor, I don't think we can tell. His recent bursts of information I will be going over in my head and keeping in mind, with a grain of salt of couse, but it is obvious that he will be lynched today unless something amazingly shocking comes to light, so any speculations I might make (and really I can't think of anything which hasn't already been said) would be moot.

The Stranger - I was suspicious of him before, but the information we are hearing about him now in my mind seems to confirm his guilt (although I await what extra information we can gain). His attempts to recruit a group just seem to condem him more.

Sigrud - I'm really not sure. My gut instinct is that he is innocent, but I wouldn't dismiss the information on him either. I would suggest gathering more information on him before lynching him (not that we won't have that time anyway, since Glenn is almost certainly todays first lynch).

With all that in mind, I believe my vote truely dosn't matter, Glenn is dead. However I would like to use my vote as a mark of suspicion on who I think our next lynch should be. I am torn between Pevergreen and The Stranger. Imagining however that both we guilty, Pevergreen would be a lot more dangerous than The Stranger, thanks to the position he has placed himself in. So I:

Vote: Pevergreen

[Sarathos]

Glenn is pretty much just scrambling to defend himself. Everyone else is just coming up with more resons to lynch him, the evidence could be better but there are facts. Not all mafia can survive Glenn.

[PershsNhpios]

I sure am scrambling boyo;

Vote: GlennVote: GlennVote: GlennVote: GlennVote: GlennVote: GlennVote: GlennVote: GlennVote: GlennVote: GlennVote: GlennVote: GlennVote: GlennVote: GlennVote: GlennVote: GlennVote: GlennVote: GlennVote: GlennVote: GlennVote: GlennVote: Glenn

[JimBob]

Other points:
Who hasn't participated yet?

Vote: Abstain

We don't know enough yet, and I don't want dead Townies



OOC: Seamus, can we get the post number at the top of each section in the summary thread.

[JimBob]

Glenn is pretty much just scrambling to defend himself. Everyone else is just coming up with more resons to lynch him, the evidence could be better but there are facts. Not all mafia can survive Glenn.

What scrambling? He's singing Bette Midler lyrics and voting for himself. What kind of mafia play is that?

This is a bandwagon, plain and simple. Some mafioso decided to start the train to Glenn's death. Let's step back and think about this.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

norwegian nerd's post doesn't ease my mind totally, but at least he's talked anyhow:

Unvote: norwegian nerd

Glenn is a player I'm in a little doubt about after last night's attack. There was only one protector (was this a Luca or a Surgeon?), although he did seem fairly surprised at the save, possibly indicating that he had no idea quite what was going on. I do think a Luca may have told his boss a little more if he were to be trying to rescue him from an attack. I'm not quite sure of what logic Seamus uses when writing the kills though, so this may not be the case.

He's behaving how he's behaved in Fimbulwinter, my game, but of course, I can't really reveal his role since the game is still in progress. He may be a little eccentric and slightly paranoid, although his behaviour does so far seem to be the norm for him regardless.

I'm now looking more to GH, who hasn't really posted much since last night, and has also completely slipped under the radar in the meantime. He still hasn't explained his aggressive and somehow obsessive method of him defending a player and himself. When I last saw him exhibit this sort of behaviour, he was Lycan, a serial killer, in pevergreen's Fantasy Mafia. He certainly needs to be looked into.

Vote: GH

[Pannonian]

I asked Pannonian in a letter to tell me what was going on between him and Pevergreen or else he would attract my distrust.

He never responded.

Well, it seems a bit odd to out and out lie so early in the game, but here's the PM exchange between me and Glenn.


I think you had better tell me in the most faithful form, what is going on between you and Pevergreen.
This scares me, and if I don't find out damned fast what operation the two of you have, my suspicion could be damaging.

Now, you tell me without reason that Pevergreen must be protected.

Then Pevergreen votes for you as director.

Then Pevergreen PMs me with an attitude that suggests he knows everything being said between the two of us, and tells me that Woad&Fangs plan to kill him, "Will not last".

Lastly, Woad&Fangs is very suspicious of even myself now.

I'm not spouting anything into the public eye, nor does anyone else know - as of yet.

You tell me everything necessary for me to trust you, or we simply part discussion.

As for pever's past connections to me. Capo 1 was his first Mafia game, in which he was a Don and I was a townie. I led the charge to lynch him, and suspecting he'd been betrayed by someone, he PMed some screenshots around, which got him a reprimand from Seamus, then posted something, which I saw. The substance of that post spoiled the game for me, and I quit the game (committed suicide) to avoid spoiling it for anyone else, but not before scolding him and warning him to keep away for the rest of the game. In our next game together (Mafia VI), he once again posted a screenshot, against the explicit rules, so I called on GH to modkill him. You can see the history of this in the rules forbidding screenshots and too-revealing PMs and quotes, and this was what pever was referring to when he mentioned the suicide.
Perhaps that doesn't count as a response in Glenn's book, but it certainly looks like one to my eyes.

[PershsNhpios]

There was a PM following this.. And everyone should note that the beginning and end of that response is; "As for pever's past connections to me".

[Xehh II]

What does FoS mean?

[pevergreen]

Oh no. I had forgotten the second screenshot.

Now I feel terrible again.

[PershsNhpios]

You are terrible. But I doubt you feel terrible.
I could believe you often feel a little corruptive and rotten, like asbestos.

[pevergreen]

Finger of Suspicion: Informs the public of suspected guilt, but not enough or not the most guilty to place a vote upon.

[johnhughthom]

Vote:Abstain

I've never played anything like this before and it's all going over my head, hopefully I survive long enough to understand what the hell is going on.

[PershsNhpios]

I don't want my information fading out of the minds who can't be bothered to read two pages back.

--

Here is the information, I simply glued the two posts together.
It won't save me, but it will point the finger at the right people.

---------------
It is my second, my first was Fimbulwinter, which started 3 days ago..

Generally, everyone attempts self preservation in a Mafia game - you can't be part of a victory if you are dead.

So that is a terrible excuse for lynching someone.

Next, the main excuse is that I was either protected by a Luca, or a Doctor, and seeing as a Doctor still doesn't prove my innocence, but a Luca would prove my guilt.

How is that rational if you don't know who protected me in any case?

--------------------------------------------

In response to 10 votes, I only have a limited time to play this game, and if I can spend the very first few turns exposing a Mafia family, then I've succeeded in my own part.

I am glad TruePraetorian came forward, he was very suspicious of me when I sent both him and Dutch_Guy PMs to ensure I wasn't being fooled.

As for Pevergreen, there was strong evidence that he, Pannonian and Beefy187 were connected.

When Woad&Fangs sent out his letter asking for a protection group, he sent it to Beefy187, but not to Pannonian or Pevergreen of course.

Beefy187 refused. Makayane can confirm who the letter was sent to.

Beefy then suggested to me it would be a good idea to infiltrate Pevergreen's group to find out what was occuring, and volunteered himself very quickly.
I did not trust this, I asked Pannonian in a letter to tell me what was going on between him and Pevergreen or else he would attract my distrust.

He never responded.

Pevergreen responded by posting my PM, which shows how he intended to kill W&F first - note how he has subtly tried to lynch him.

I think both Woad&Fangs are innocent, however I think they both have at least tried to recruit a large amount of people, for themselves or for the Mafia.

---------------------------------------------

Notice also how Sigurd first dismissed complaints against himself and Stranger, then began pushing against both Stranger and Louis VI when I mentioned the latter.

------------------

Hope to god someone takes this seriously and acts on it, publicly or not..

I've done a lot of studying in the background during my Day 1, Night 1 silence..

I believe Sasaki is innocent.
************************************************** ***********************************

What do I have to lose?

The possibility of gaining more information, and having a more productive role in the game - in other words, life!

I am unsure of some things, but I know names that can come forward and set things perfectly.

Protection Group Alpha, recruited by Stranger.
Glenn, Dutch_Guy, TruePraetorian

Protection Group Beta, recruited by - Stranger?
Drisos, Moros, Andres

Alpha protected Louis VI the Fat.

Beta protected Sigurd Fafnesbane.

Step forward, protectees, what was the reason for being recruited into this?
Considering I received my recruitment PM about one hour after game start, this all seemed too organised to be township.

You all must of realised also, if we can all give some evidence on this we can put this little Mafia away - and only one of us will die, myself. How romantic.

I have to go, this is a busy day for me, (Actually), so this is a quick reply.
For that reason I can't add this PM in a quote - but what difference does that make? The difference is wether you believe me or not.

A PM from Stranger recently:

for a person with so much info... you know awefully little... tell me something you know and I don't before ill be putting a bit of pressure on you...

I did not handle by sigurd... hes not my boss... but if you do not start telling me stuff you end up dead... you might as well tell me stuff that can save you so i can vouch for your innocense... this is not the way you to end CDTC... not this early

************************************************** **********************************************

[Zorg]

What does FoS mean?

Finger of Suspicion, basicly its just saying your suspicious of someone beyond normal paranoia but not enough to vote them.

EDIT: Already answered :wall:

[Pannonian]

There was a PM following this.. And everyone should note that the beginning and end of that response is; "As for pever's past connections to me".
You mean this PM by you?

What evidence have you that WF is mafia?

I have many players to attend here,
so I will say this;
I am willing - I want to participate in a well-intentioned townie group.
But the chances are far greater that people are mafiosi or special this time round - townies are a minority.

So really - there is good and evil..

And which are we?

Good and evil are perspectives, we simply wish to know if we are on the same side here.
So if you want me to join in your ideas, then I want you to abandon defense of Pevergreen on the coming night phase.

I know I am the one who suggested any contact between us at all, but given what I have witnessed, you cannot blame me for suspecting.

I don't trust Pevergreen at all.

Glenn
I had originally tried to lock w&f, Glenn and I into a protection group for pevergreen, the player w&f said he was groupkilling, because I have a strong aversion to townkills and I wanted to guarantee w&f would not be taking part in anysuch. Capo 1 players, or any players for that matter who can read the rules and think them through, will know why. And for players who are neither, here's the explanation, as provided to Glenn in another PM.


I have no idea where pever got the information from, but the reason why I'd rather the mafia kill W&F than he should kill pever for them is because of the cover that a teamkill can provide for a mafioso. Mafiosi who kill people as per their role will get a guilty reading sooner or later when investigated by detectives, but they can get cover for themselves by taking part in a teamkill, then claiming that the guilty reading was the result of a townie group-killing earlier in the game. This tactic is known in Capo, and I was the one who sussed it in Capo 1, hence my very strong prejudice against W&F killing pever (or anyone, for that matter, for the reason given above).
I did eventually manage to cajole w&f out of attempting a kill on pevergreen (or anyone else), so there was little else to be discussed on that matter.

[CountArach]

Anything more than those two posts Glenn?

[pevergreen]

Greetings.

CDTC is a large game, with many of you fumbling around to organize groups and so forth.

I offer a beacon of townie gathering. Pro town need only respond with their intention and preferred method (killing, protecting) of helping the town.

Im putting my own life out there for it.

P,

How many people do you have? Call them off Glenn. There are 22 hours until voting ends. Saving Glenn is critical for the town. He and I are part of an organization that is dedicated to destroying the mob.
I'm putting my ass on the line here, no Luca saved Glenn. If you choose to lynch Glenn you will find yourself having wasted time in two days.

We can do a lot of damage to the mob if you let us.

Our group can help, please let us.
Jim
That isnt substantial enough information to call it off Glenn.

I need roles, how he was saved and who is in your group.


You know the rules. The whole role sheet was in red. I can tell you there are three of us. Glenn is one, we're looking for the other. We're like a pre-built vigilante group. We have a special life saving ability. These are the facts. Losing Glenn will only hurt the town.

The entire Role PM was in red. :laugh4:

Does it allude to what happens if one of you is killed?

We lose our most potent ability.




Jimbob is saying you two are looking for a third.

Convince me I should save you from being lynched.

How can I convince you of anything, when the two of us have been suspicious of each other for so long?

I don't want to die, no, but at the moment I see no other alternative, so I have a carefree attitude.

You aren't guilty, you may of been trying something with the Mafia, but you aren't born guilty into this.

I don't think you can be a third.. how many are in your retinue?



Well I dont know what to do.

I find it 80% likely its made up, but I cant help but feel it may be true.
I know I did that type of thing when I was hosting, I just dont see Seamus making a 2/3 pre-arranged group with extra powers...

[CountArach]

The most suspicious thing is that they are first part of a group, and then JimBob claims that they would like to create a group. I don't know about letting the two of them knowing each other AND giving them special doctoring powers. It seems strange. Perhaps only one of them has a special thing. I am also interested as to what these special powers would do, because as far as I know 3 townies together won't fail.

[Andres]

Glenn, if you are pro-town, the least you can do is reveal your role...

I don't think anything else you'll say will matter now.

Two questions remain unanswered:

- who protected Glenn? alot of people have been focusing on this question...
- who attacked Glenn?

I would have thought Sasaki and his group did so, but he claims that they have been protecting Pannonian.

And to be fair: it was my idea to protect Sigurd last night. I played quite a few games with Sigurd on my townie-side and he never failed to impress me.

Sigurd, I think you made a mistake quoting Drisos' unallowed after dead reveal.

Wasn't it in CDTC I that the Don's knew each other's identity? So maybe Drisos was a detective, maybe he was scum, but I don't see no reason to doubt the accusation.

Unvote: pevergreen; Vote : Don Sigurd.

If only we could create a tie between Glenn and Sigurd and lynch them both...

[Sasaki Kojiro]

JimBob's pm protestations look made up to me.

-Seamus wouldn't add a 3 person special role with a critical ability. Also, vigilantes don't save lives.
-There's no reason for glenn not to have claimed it earlier. Given the huge amount of effort he's gone into, reposting all the information that he summarized, I find it unbelievable that there isn't even a hint of a special role.
-ergo JimBob is most likely Glenn's scumbuddy trying to save his don.


Wasn't it in CDTC I that the Don's knew each other's identity? So maybe Drisos was a detective, maybe he was scum, but I don't see no reason to doubt the accusation.

Unvote: pevergreen; Vote : Don Sigurd.

If only we could create a tie between Glenn and Sigurd and lynch them both...

Scummy post. There's no reason to be so sure Sigurd is guilty. Drisos's accusation is not very significant at all. Reason to watch sigurd at most.

[Pannonian]

The time to lynch Sigurd is when Drisos' post mortem is done. If he were a detective, he wouldn't have been allowed to reveal after death. However, if he were not a detective, then he can reveal the role however much he likes when he likes, up to and including the red text stating that a town win will result in a free holiday in Mallorca.

In addition to the points already made, if Glenn and jimbob's PMs are entirely in red, how are they to find the last part of the troika? How is one supposed to establish contact if the means of contact is disallowed? I find the claim hard to believe.

[pevergreen]

Wasn't it in CDTC I that the Don's knew each other's identity?

No. The Don's knew Sasaki, and he knew them. I had no idea who the other Don's are.

I think NN needs to speak more. GH and Sasaki cant be let off the hook (im sure Zorg will say I cant be either).

TS seems to be streamlining. I cant imagine him doing this well if he was mafia.

I think Jimbob for lynch.

[Andres]

JimBob's pm protestations look made up to me.

-Seamus wouldn't add a 3 person special role with a critical ability. Also, vigilantes don't save lives.
-There's no reason for glenn not to have claimed it earlier. Given the huge amount of effort he's gone into, reposting all the information that he summarized, I find it unbelievable that there isn't even a hint of a special role.
-ergo JimBob is most likely Glenn's scumbuddy trying to save his don.

True.

The "our entire role pm was in red" claim seems like a very poor attempt at a fake reveal. They are lying.


Scummy post. There's no reason to be so sure Sigurd is guilty. Drisos's accusation is not very significant at all. Reason to watch sigurd at most.

Now, tell me, how is that scummy? Drisos revealed after dead. He broke the rules, but Sigurd quoted it, the information is there for all to see. Why would Drisos say that he knows for sure that Sigurd is a Don? What reason would we have not to believe him? Why not tieing Glenn and Sigurd and ask Kommodus to lynch them both? What's wrong with lynching a) somebody who is very likely to be a Don b) a very supsicous player? It saves us time, since we wouldn't have to focus on Sigurd anymore in the next round.

Besides, I've seen my name on your "suspect list" in your sig for a while, yet you offered not a single explanation for this.

Care to elaborate?

[Beefy187]

Meh ill just have to say

Vote: Pevergreen

For trying to use his cunning plan with out even telling me (Kill me), and failing miserably. Thanks for letting me run out of luck too.. Im average townie btw. Mafia having ability to avoid death means invincible. Pro town already got a decent ability. Which means im just a townie with some special ability to balance stuff out.

And to Glenn: Havnt pmed or recieved pm from Pannonian. But ive been talking with Pevergreen

If I die tonight... Well cant do much now can I? You know who to blame.. :smash:

[Andres]

No. The Don's knew Sasaki, and he knew them. I had no idea who the other Don's are.

I see. Thnx for the clarification.


I think NN needs to speak more. GH and Sasaki cant be let off the hook (im sure Zorg will say I cant be either).

Not only Zorg would say that... Why did you add the bolded part in your post?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

If Drisos was guilty, it makes sense he'd try and accuse someone. If he was the detective, he had no results and his accusation of sigurd has no more weight than me accusing you. You say yourself that you suggested sigurd be protected--if I'm not mistaken Drisos thought Sigurd was the don because he was being protected. If you accuse Sigurd of being the Don by Drisos's logic, you accuse yourself of being on of Sigurd's henchmen. There are many more suspicious people than Sigurd, so your suggestion of adding him to the lynch (when it's obvious he won't be) is scummy.

[pevergreen]

I see. Thnx for the clarification.



Not only Zorg would say that... Why did you add the bolded part in your post?
Bold?

Ummm WTF r u doin?

I see no bold.

Beefy, feel free to blame me for your near death. But keep in mind i had organized a group to protect you, which Sasaki turned away from you.

I also posted here that I lead that group, when you had quite a few votes on you early.

[PershsNhpios]

I want to state my last words.

"I want everyone to know that I crusaded in the name of the axe, blade and crown of the Township authority.
I was a detective with a sword.
A sword so heavy it would require three men to lift.

... Let's do the time warp again!"

[Beefy187]

[QUOTE=pevergreen]
Beefy, feel free to blame me for your near death. But keep in mind i had organized a group to protect you, which Sasaki turned away from you.
QUOTE]

No its alright. I dont hold grudges or I dont think your guilty :sweatdrop:

But if you told me your gonna target me then I couldve told you about my ability and that docter plan will fail if they targeted me. So no hard feelings mate :2thumbsup:

There is no evidence but I dont think Glenn is guilty

[pevergreen]

Beefy, feel free to blame me for your near death. But keep in mind i had organized a group to protect you, which Sasaki turned away from you.


No its alright. I dont hold grudges or I dont think your guilty :sweatdrop:

But if you told me your gonna target me then I couldve told you about my ability and that docter plan will fail if they targeted me. So no hard feelings mate :2thumbsup:

There is no evidence but I dont think Glenn is guilty
No you couldnt, as it would have been in red?
EDIT: Fixed up Beefy's quote tags. They screwed my quote up.
I think too much red revealing and after death is going on.

Sticking to the rules does enhance the fun.

[PershsNhpios]

Oh, Pannonian, you posted my last letter to you!

Everyone, everyone, read them both, and notice how he is answering questions in his, 'reply', post, I didn't ask in the post he gave.

That is because he posted here a PM answering a far earlier post, when Pevergreen started questioning me out of the blue.

I think I'm going to have my coffin made of gyprock, so everyone can see how cheaply I was treated. Ha!

[Andres]

Bold?

Ummm WTF r u doin?

I see no bold.


I bolded a part of your post in my quote. Fixed the bold tags in my quote of your post :bow:

[The Stranger]

drisos told me... the only reason he accused me and sigurd was because if he was going down... someone else had to go with him...

post 33!!! im coming glenn!!!

oh and vote abstain... which equals voting for glenn... but im not that sadistic.

[Andres]

I'm sorry to lose my life so soon. Now listen carefully.

I was detective. But got no results. (because I was murdered right away)
So, 100% pro-town.

Thing I do know, is, Sigurd Fafnesbane is one of the Dons. Now, don't lynch him yet - he has 4 rival families, so he'll be murdered anyway.
On his team is The_Stranger.
But he loses as well, when his Don is murdered, right?

Further people that have been really suspective in PM's:

Andres
Glenn

Both should be lynched if they survive for too long. I wouldn't count on it, though.

Furthermore, I can only advise, keep the smart people alive for now, this game is too complicated. Lynch them later on if they survive.

Sorry again. My killing was luck of the draw, seems. I've been careful about my role. Bad luck... well, next game better...
Good luck, town, I might keep an eye open and cheer for all innocent people! ~:)

:bow:

Drisis clearly says: "Thing I do know, is, Sigurd Fafnesbane is one of the Dons."

He doesn't say that he suspects Sigurd of being a Don because he got protected. Drisos is saying that he knows it.

My guess is that Drisos' role pm mentioned that Sigurd is a Don.

[PershsNhpios]

Gee Stranger, I wrote two pages and you just dribble and spit and type alot of dots?

Good god man, even I'm better at being defensive than you!
Don't forget my last words! I want them recited!

[Sarathos]

[QUOTE=Beefy187]Vote: Pevergreen
For trying to use his cunning plan with out even telling me (Kill me), and failing miserably. QUOTE]

Thats a very good point. I shall Unvote:Glenn and Vote:Pevergreen thought it will not make much difference.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

My guess is that Drisos' role pm mentioned that Sigurd is a Don.

No way.

[Andres]

post 33!!! im coming glenn!!!



As long as your posts are not spam :brood:

Do we understand each other?

[Andres]

No way.

How can you be so sure about that?

Wasn't there a certain Sasaki Kojiro who had a special role (Wolf? Some sort of rogue detective) in CDTC I and whose role pm mentioned the identity of the Mafia Dons?

:inquisitive:

[pevergreen]

I bolded a part of your post in my quote. Fixed the bold tags in my quote of your post :bow:
I finally understand.

I dont know.

Zorg, Killf3nzy, Sarathos, Beefy187, Twilightblade and myself are all in a group of friends. So we kind of make reference to each other.

For example, I am going to slap Sarathos tomorrow for voting for me.