View Full Version : Small Mafia Game Sorceror 17er Game Thread
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nebjiamn
04-29-2022, 00:54
vote: montmorency
$tat$
sorry if its wrong but atp im just committed to following zack/newcomb
will towncase self if necessary down the line
vote: sleep
Vote: Montmorency
u thought
hollowkatt
04-29-2022, 00:57
gg I was katze
Players Votes
Montmorency 7 (Sleep, Dobby, Cuthillius, Cape90, hollowkatt, Raskolnikov, nebjiamn)
katze 1 (Montmorency)
Sleep 1 (katze)
gg i was hollowkatt
vote: monty
pls end i dont want to feel obligated to show up tomorrow ������
okay but why is mont saying katze now instead of Cuth now?
I really don't think it's anything but Monty, it just looks like he's looking for popular places to shoot his shot at.
oh right, right
hollowkatt
04-29-2022, 00:59
rumor has it if we all vote visor with :00 on the clock the game resets but we get the host information. basically we glitch out the current game to make it think we're just starting but we can then speedrun it
LET ME POST MY GOD DAMN PLEADING EMOJIS
https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/927324317463765002.webp?size=96&quality=lossless
nebjiamn
04-29-2022, 00:59
gg all
hollowkatt
04-29-2022, 00:59
gg i was hollowkatt
vote: monty
pls end i dont want to feel obligated to show up tomorrow ������
senpai has noticed me :swoon:
Montmorency
04-29-2022, 01:00
okay but why is mont saying katze now instead of Cuth now?
oh right, right
BRUHHHHHH HOW CAN NO ONE READ MY POSTS
rumor has it if we all vote visor with :00 on the clock the game resets but we get the host information. basically we glitch out the current game to make it think we're just starting but we can then speedrun it
vote: visorslash
Montmorency
04-29-2022, 01:00
I concede the game. gg to all you susbois
nebjiamn
04-29-2022, 01:00
BRUHHHHHH HOW CAN NO ONE READ MY POSTS
villagery
I concede the game. gg to all you susbois
WHY DIDNT YOU SELFVOTE GDI
THE FUNNIES
nebjiamn
04-29-2022, 01:00
I concede the game. gg to all you susbois
wolfy
wolfy
polarized post bronana
nebjiamn
04-29-2022, 01:01
10 mins for corrections
Players Votes
Montmorency 8 (Sleep, Dobby, Cuthillius, Cape90, katze, hollowkatt, Raskolnikov, nebjiamn)
katze 1 (Montmorency)
Montmorency has died. They were Vanilla Town.
24 hours for night yadda yadda yadda.
Alive: (8/17)
2. nebjiamn
3. cuthillius
6. Raskolnikov
12. roro__b
14. katze
15. Sleep
16. Cape90
17. hollowkatt
Dead: (9/17)
4. Ladd, Mafia N3 Sorcerer, died D1.
5. Winston Hughes, Vanilla Town, killed N1.
8. Csargo, Vanilla Town, detonated D2.
13. monstrbro Dolby, replaced after EOD1, Mafia Goon, exploded D2.
7. Newcomb, Vanilla Town, died D2.
1. zack, Town Backup, killed N2.
9. EnderWiggin, Mafia Goon, detonated D3.
10. Sunbae, Town Sorcerer, exploded D3.
11. Montmorency, Vanilla Town, died D3.
nebjiamn has died. They were Vanilla Town.
48 hours for day, ending 1st May 8pm American Eastern.
Alive: (7/17)
3. cuthillius
6. Raskolnikov
12. roro__b
14. katze
15. Sleep
16. Cape90
17. hollowkatt
Dead: (10/17)
4. Ladd, Mafia N3 Sorcerer, died D1.
5. Winston Hughes, Vanilla Town, killed N1.
8. Csargo, Vanilla Town, detonated D2.
13. monstrbro Dolby, replaced after EOD1, Mafia Goon, exploded D2.
7. Newcomb, Vanilla Town, died D2.
1. zack, Town Backup, killed N2.
9. EnderWiggin, Mafia Goon, detonated D3.
10. Sunbae, Town Sorcerer, exploded D3.
11. Montmorency, Vanilla Town, died D3.
2. nebjiamn, Vanilla Town, killed N3.
Wolves actually playing to win. How nice
Ngl last night I was thinking about benneh and we had just cleared him based on being really towny and I'm kinda happy he's dead because it means I don't need to tinfoil
Now
Cuth or katze
With a side of cape
Is what's on the agenda for the day
I think monty had to br the yoink there because of.. like, yeah, a lot of reasons but also dead people being smarter than me mainly
I have also cleared hollowkatt based on like our interactions last 2 days or smth, but I'm not sure how much reasons there actually is for it other than towny posts. Should go check votes again, myself this time, and then like other stuff. I feel like we really owe it to the others to get this right after the insane start we had. Reasonable me should just do some amount of f3 mindset work now and just not clear anyone but
It's probably just cuth katze and maybe we can save the reevaluate everyone thing til later
BTW wp benneh, and sorry monty, didn't really give you a chance at all
Oh it IS the weekend now, I've had some drinks and stuff, prolly chilling before I sleep, it's 2.20 am and tomorrow is my SILs graduation party. Sunday I'm having a move in party thing with a couple of friends so uh
I'll spend all the time I have not doing rl things on this i guess. After the weekend if game is still ongoing I'll be like 400-posting and no-life this and wim it to victory
Vote: Cuth for now
I kinda just want it to be f3 so I can focus on two people and just big brain this shit, I feel kinda demoralised by the monty thing but two second later I'm like let's doooooo thiiiiiiiiiiisssssss
But focusing on 2 instead of 6 is kinda nice, I've never been in f3 as town in a non turbo
But also, wolf, you need to kill me or I'm coming after you and I'll do it with an insane amount of posts. You don't want that, wolf. You get a freebie today because the fayphase stretches over the weekend but after that :whip:
hollowkatt
04-30-2022, 01:28
I'll be here eventually just checking in
hollowkatt
04-30-2022, 01:29
I think it would behoove us to really determine why/how we have the reads on each player that we do
3. cuthillius
6. Raskolnikov
12. roro__b
14. katze
15. Sleep
16. Cape90
17. hollowkatt
I think it would behoove us to really determine why/how we have the reads on each player that we do
3. cuthillius
6. Raskolnikov
12. roro__b
14. katze
15. Sleep
16. Cape90
17. hollowkatt
I think I did something like this yesterday but I kinda want to vote cuth or katze and then start clean slate and do whatever I have the ti e for today
But kat if ur wolf you need to kill me or I'm not giving you top poster just saying (now katze can't kill me because it'll be outing)
yeah if you're gonna just grief and try to kill my clears i can kill you instead dobby
i don't really care enough to write a wall today, im not voting cuth, if you vote me out and then cuth tomorrow and he flips town i will be extremely unhappy
also gg benneh you lucky soab
vote:cape
im probably not moving today
yeah if you're gonna just grief and try to kill my clears i can kill you instead dobby
i don't really care enough to write a wall today, im not voting cuth, if you vote me out and then cuth tomorrow and he flips town i will be extremely unhappy
Grief? I posted a list the other day, we had 5 different people that were someone's preferred yoink, literally everyone has Sussex and like, even the "clears" are sussed by a few. Benneh was passionate about cuth, I'm sure rask is going to be as well
I've "cleared" cuth as well for like, most days until maybe yesterday when the cases started being pumped out
Cape has been up and down for me but I just don't see it as clearly. And your case on cape wasn't very compelling and neither was our discussion about it tbqh
Like what kind of sentence is that even "if you're gonna grief and kill my clears" lmao, how is that griefing when... cuth hasn't really been considered cleared by anyone but you and its for like, gut reasons? I cleared cuth as well because of tone and interaction with monstr iirc so it's kinda not fair writing that lol
It's a game of mafia, saying don't touch my clear and then vote parking and implying you don't have much interest in trying to skew stuff towards your preference is... idk you might feel demotivated but that's not how to play the game tbh. It's unlikely anyone else will vote cape, are you just gonna park and afk?
Sorry that sounded very uh criticising/mean tbh
that feeling when you believe in your heart something is wrong but dont want to disrespect the dead townies who have been more right than you
hollowkatt
04-30-2022, 04:04
that feeling when you believe in your heart something is wrong but dont want to disrespect the dead townies who have been more right than you
this is an unfinished thought. where's the rest of it?
hollowkatt
04-30-2022, 04:13
in all seriousness though Sleep where's your head at with the game? I struggle some times to understand your grasp on the thread.
I get dobby, I get katze, I get raskol. I struggle with understanding you, cuth, and cape.
Cape90 can you give me a little run down with where you're at as well? I'd appreciate it.
Grief? I posted a list the other day, we had 5 different people that were someone's preferred yoink, literally everyone has Sussex and like, even the "clears" are sussed by a few. Benneh was passionate about cuth, I'm sure rask is going to be as well
I've "cleared" cuth as well for like, most days until maybe yesterday when the cases started being pumped out
Cape has been up and down for me but I just don't see it as clearly. And your case on cape wasn't very compelling and neither was our discussion about it tbqh
Like what kind of sentence is that even "if you're gonna grief and kill my clears" lmao, how is that griefing when... cuth hasn't really been considered cleared by anyone but you and its for like, gut reasons? I cleared cuth as well because of tone and interaction with monstr iirc so it's kinda not fair writing that lol
It's a game of mafia, saying don't touch my clear and then vote parking and implying you don't have much interest in trying to skew stuff towards your preference is... idk you might feel demotivated but that's not how to play the game tbh. It's unlikely anyone else will vote cape, are you just gonna park and afk?
my read on cuth is more than gut and i never cased cape, i had bad gut feelings with some cape posts that made me want to go cape before monty but my poe after the bomb yest was basically always the same 2 names, monty more out of respect for everyone else (cause earlier in the game i had townread monty a decent bit but understood why people disagreed) while cape was my pet "im keeping him alive until later game to see if hes obvtown and he's not obvtown"... read? that doesnt sound like a correct sentence but whatev
im not going to afk today because like, even at my laziest i am never going to disrespect a game or playerlist *that* much. but im not voting cuth and if todays wagons are cuth or bust then im sitting happily on my vanity wagon and going "i told you so" or "lmao that was all an elaborate reaction test because i felt bad for the wolves" tomorrow
Sorry that sounded very uh criticising/mean tbh
its fine my post was not exactly nice cause i wrote it after extended tests of my patience (oog)
i guess i become alison when im annoyed with people
i will put in the legwork today to review everyone. tired right now but will have time this weekend.
in all seriousness though Sleep where's your head at with the game? I struggle some times to understand your grasp on the thread.
I get dobby, I get katze, I get raskol. I struggle with understanding you, cuth, and cape.
Cape90 can you give me a little run down with where you're at as well? I'd appreciate it.
sorry not tonight. need to review. i fully admit to being lazy yesterday but it was because i was pretty wrong on most things and wanted to respect the wishes of dead towns
hollowkatt
04-30-2022, 04:25
my read on cuth is more than gut and i never cased cape, i had bad gut feelings with some cape posts that made me want to go cape before monty but my poe after the bomb yest was basically always the same 2 names, monty more out of respect for everyone else (cause earlier in the game i had townread monty a decent bit but understood why people disagreed) while cape was my pet "im keeping him alive until later game to see if hes obvtown and he's not obvtown"... read? that doesnt sound like a correct sentence but whatev
im not going to afk today because like, even at my laziest i am never going to disrespect a game or playerlist *that* much. but im not voting cuth and if todays wagons are cuth or bust then im sitting happily on my vanity wagon and going "i told you so" or "lmao that was all an elaborate reaction test because i felt bad for the wolves" tomorrow
its fine my post was not exactly nice cause i wrote it after extended tests of my patience (oog)
i guess i become alison when im annoyed with people
personally I'd rather do cape today
primarily for the reason that cuth is on a pretty even keel this game, his wim and activity levels aren't really fluctuating based on what's going on and who is potentially on the block, even when running up wolves/blowing them up, which btw GOAT play from both Csargo and Sunbae with the vests.
Cape otoh seems to become more active when people suspect him, then returns to being less active. He'll shitpost and vibe for a while, then someone will say "hey what about cape" and he'll produce some content, and then fade again.
To me that's more about surviving and making it to the next day than anything else.
I also have been re-reading Sleep and really really liked this post: 181 - Sleep reacts to very early game Cape posts (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828445&viewfull=1#post2053828445)
vote: Cape90
hollowkatt
04-30-2022, 04:26
sorry not tonight. need to review. i fully admit to being lazy yesterday but it was because i was pretty wrong on most things and wanted to respect the wishes of dead towns
cool nbd we have time.
I am going to be out of town mid-day Sunday, have to go to a funeral home visitation. Distant uncle passed. Was in the hospital from Thanksgiving. It's alright though.
hollowkatt
04-30-2022, 04:30
I'm also going to go back and re-read the early game Ender push to see who was pushing back against that and what reasons they were giving. Ladd I think we have all we're going to have from his posting. Monstr/Dolby didn't really do much of anything though dolby did have a wall or two maybe to look at.
That really leaves just Ender in terms of his posting, and the early push against him to review.
hollowkatt
04-30-2022, 04:35
would cape fake not knowing ender = blade if they're paired?
hollowkatt
04-30-2022, 04:35
Hi.
You played with me not long ago.
...
hollowkatt
04-30-2022, 04:40
Yeah I can. He feels stilted, like his content is forced, and that he's struggling to get into the groove of the game.
I tend to ego solve and compare what people are doing to what I'd be doing in their positions. This would tangentially apply to cape as well tbh:
If I were a wolf in this player list I'd be extremely concerned with making the towniest posts I could make and trying to fit in with the overall flow of the game so as not to get caught out immediately. Unfortunately when I do that I tend to be really obvs a wolf as I'm basically trying too hard. Ender (and Cape) feel like they're trying too hard.
The downside to ego solving is that other people are not me (I know, this is a shocking revelation) and don't necessarily react to things the same way I would. This isn't stopping me from making the read.
And before someone asks, my "no chop" vote is totally legit. This is a player list I am going to struggle to read and seeing who dies over night if we don't chop anyone might help in solving. Otherwise I'm likely going to just sheep someone I town read that I perceive is smarter than I am, or be on some weird vanity wagon at the end of the day.
So I figured I'd throw out not chopping as an option, see what people think of that, and go from there.
and yeah I'm being serious
Just gonna put this back into the spotlight. I think it's still valid. Also apparently I was the first vote on Ender?
anyways, ignore the whole no chop thing, that was dumb and bad, but I stand by what I said about Ender and Cape at the top. Both of them were posting in a stilted "please town read my jokes" type of way, Ender ignored Capes avatar reads list, I just kinda think yeah, it's still legit.
hollowkatt
04-30-2022, 04:42
thanks
i didn't really like your post calling out katze as v for thin reasons and then shrugging the vote onto ender without explanation so i wanted to see where you were on him.
ender doesn't strike me as someone to be worried about wolfing in this playerlist but i've only played with them one other meaningful time that i can remember and they were a villager. still, just vibes, i don't know that i agree with the basis of the read although i do appreciate your process
To expand a response to this: It's not so much that I wolf read Ender as "having the fear" of wolfing in this list, it's that I wolf read him for trying too hard to be freeflowing, jokey, and looking to scrape town reads off of those interactions. And in the process of doing that he felt flat and stilted.
Cuthillius
04-30-2022, 05:12
i will put in the legwork today to review everyone. tired right now but will have time this weekend.
this
hollowkatt
04-30-2022, 05:16
Feels off to me
Caveat I don't think I know you that well
does this post spew Sleep as town? Kinda maybe thinking it does.
hollowkatt
04-30-2022, 05:16
does this post spew Sleep as town? Kinda maybe thinking it does.
mostly b/c if they were w/w together this post doesn't need to exist at all as there are better ways to distance than this.
hollowkatt
04-30-2022, 05:55
i applied it more to turbos/mashes than normal games (and I also noticed it first in my own wolf games iirc)
sometimes as a wolf you see a post where you feel like you either 1) have to answer to or 2) have a smart answer to but to look like you didnt just pop in to answer that post you then also latch onto a random other post that happened before
i do think ender reaction to zack/mine (but especially zack really) push is the wolfiest thing in an overall p villagery thread
newcomb seems an obvious villager imo
immediately before this post cape drops a post town reading ender, then ladd comes in with "no ender bad" but no vote and no oomph. Obvs ladd doesn't want ender to go over here, but is cape trying to defend and ladd trying to attack so that ender goes deeper as "not quite townie but high (less sus) in the poe" position?
I dunno. Something about how cape being contrarian on ender rubs me wrong.
hollowkatt
04-30-2022, 05:56
might just be doing that thing where I confbias though
hollowkatt
04-30-2022, 05:57
I really don't like that HK post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828396&viewfull=1#post2053828396), EXCEPT for the No Chop thing, like that felt towny to me, but the whole forced content thing, I think the read is a little weak sauce. I kinda been treating this game like a light game so that I don't spam the thread with posts, especially since there is only 30 posts per page, I feel like that just encourages more words/things said per post versus spam posting. :shrug:
maybe i'm a sucker, but that didn't feel forced at all to me. i asked for a live lookin on his process and he answered, like, absurdly quickly, and to get such a detailed insight into how HK was reading the game/ender felt very very transparent. part of this is a timing read that I don't think you can catch on re-read, but it really wasl ike a 2-4 minute turnaround from me posting (inb4 its 30 irl minutes) and HK responding there
i think the underlying part here is that HK has/had a process in evaluating ender and even if it wasn't something i found convincing or truly AI for ender, it toold me more about HK which is what i wanted anyway
So this was a thing that happened as well.
hollowkatt
04-30-2022, 06:02
Uh lemme parse my thoughts into lists.
I dislike Ladd's treatment of me particularly. The read on me (The whole "Backwards quoting" thing) feels entirely forced and also liiiike, unrealistic.
Raskol is obvious scum because of his lack of posts.
Sunbae I was leaning townish but the whole Monstr/Cuth read feels like he realised he fucked up and backed up. Pending explanation that makes my brain do the good wobly jelly I'm going to stare at him.
Monstr feels weaksauce.
I was townreading Cape but the whole Sleep thing is making me wonder.
ladd flipped wolf
Raskol I think has been town but I really want him to show up so we can talk.
Sunbae flipped town
Monstr flipped wolf
cuth hasn't flipped
cape read here is weird b/c there's no explanation for it yeah? Like he explains Ladd, Rask, Monstr/Cuth, but Cape just gets "the sleep thing makes me wonder" and that's markedly different to the way he's addressed the rest of them.
Monstr had some sus at the time. Ladd otoh was fairly not talked about right about now fwiw.
meh
hollowkatt
04-30-2022, 06:03
one thing I have noticed (I'm re-reading the entire game from D1 beginning btw) is that most of Enders interactions are with the dead, Cape, myself, and Cuth. Very few thus far with Sleep, Katze, Dobby, or Raskol.
not at all sure what that means.
hollowkatt
04-30-2022, 06:08
👍
currently thinking it's best for both of you (@EnderWiggin primarily) to focus on other avenues than eachother
ender: i think HK is p villagery and think your read on him is... it kinda feels like you feel obligated to have A Read there in a similar vein to how i feel when i play with 1-2 FoLers in a playerlist? i dunno. i think you're wrong, and it's souring my view on you
I feel like I have to have a feeling about this post.
Sometimes town says "hey you two stop sniping at each other and see if you can find common ground".
Sometimes it's a wolf playing peacemaker.
I think though katze is town and my interpretation of this post is that katze is trying to do the whole "find common ground thing" because the back and forth between ender and myself wasn't acrimonious per se.
Also katze I think is the type of wolf to hard defend if they can get away with it whereas here katze is using it to express some amount of suspicion on ender where it really didn't need to exist. Ender for the most part was under the radar except for me so katze wading in here doesn't really make sense from wolf?katze perspective. There's no need to do so, I'm not a threat to enders position even as people were widely town reading me.
hollowkatt
04-30-2022, 06:11
anyways I'm going to bed now. Tag me if there's anything you wanna talk about.
hollowkatt
04-30-2022, 17:29
oof dead thread is dead.
I'm out for most of the day today, will check back in maybe 7ish hours
Like what kind of sentence is that even "if you're gonna grief and kill my clears" lmao, how is that griefing when... cuth hasn't really been considered cleared by anyone but you and its for like, gut reasons? I cleared cuth as well because of tone and interaction with monstr iirc so it's kinda not fair writing that lol
It's a game of mafia, saying don't touch my clear and then vote parking and implying you don't have much interest in trying to skew stuff towards your preference is... idk you might feel demotivated but that's not how to play the game tbh. It's unlikely anyone else will vote cape, are you just gonna park and afk?
Look Dobby, I really think that Cuth's interactions with wolves look like Cuth doesn't have TMI on who the wolves are. I have really tried looking at katze posts but there is just about nothing all that clearing early on in the game for them so I think they are doing this because they are just mafia who want to go for the easy push
Vote: katze
I feel like I have to have a feeling about this post.
Sometimes town says "hey you two stop sniping at each other and see if you can find common ground".
Sometimes it's a wolf playing peacemaker.
I think though katze is town and my interpretation of this post is that katze is trying to do the whole "find common ground thing" because the back and forth between ender and myself wasn't acrimonious per se.
Also katze I think is the type of wolf to hard defend if they can get away with it whereas here katze is using it to express some amount of suspicion on ender where it really didn't need to exist. Ender for the most part was under the radar except for me so katze wading in here doesn't really make sense from wolf?katze perspective. There's no need to do so, I'm not a threat to enders position even as people were widely town reading me.
Hm. This might be a goodish point though but I should look at the fuller context there
I look at what katze said to ender and I think it's still like, possible that's a w/w interactions though as I have seen wolves try to distance themselves like that. I was trying to look at early posts earlier from katze, but man is it super inconvenient
cape read here is weird b/c there's no explanation for it yeah? Like he explains Ladd, Rask, Monstr/Cuth, but Cape just gets "the sleep thing makes me wonder" and that's markedly different to the way he's addressed the rest of them.
This is literally town points to me. Like majorly so. Wolves love to make weird and hedgy reads on town, it's because they know that I am town and that their mafias are mafias. This really doesn't incriminate me like you think it does
immediately before this post cape drops a post town reading ender, then ladd comes in with "no ender bad" but no vote and no oomph. Obvs ladd doesn't want ender to go over here, but is cape trying to defend and ladd trying to attack so that ender goes deeper as "not quite townie but high (less sus) in the poe" position?
I dunno. Something about how cape being contrarian on ender rubs me wrong.
I thought they were playing like the other Sorc game I was in with them. But they were also notably less jokey, but I still thought they were town based on content
would cape fake not knowing ender = blade if they're paired?
Okay just gonna say, I think this is really NAI
Rundown: it's katze or Cuth but Cuth has better interactions with mafia methinks
Look Dobby, I really think that Cuth's interactions with wolves look like Cuth doesn't have TMI on who the wolves are. I have really tried looking at katze posts but there is just about nothing all that clearing early on in the game for them so I think they are doing this because they are just mafia who want to go for the easy push
Vote: katze
https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/909331874239873084.webp?size=96&quality=lossless
It's unlikely anyone else will vote cape, are you just gonna park and afk?
everybody in the world is trying to kill someone i have cleared if i were mafia i'd be very happy bout that
instead im choosing to continue defending them in favor of killing you, who i think is way wolfier by play and by meta
im ignoring the negative gut feelings to this omgus post because tbh i expected it
anyway i don't really want to defend myself because frankly i don't care that much if i go over
with that said im just going to drop a selfmeta "if i look bad earlygame i'm probably town, lmao" and go back to playing video games without backing up that statement at all
https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/909331874239873084.webp?size=96&quality=lossless
everybody in the world is trying to kill someone i have cleared if i were mafia i'd be very happy bout that
instead im choosing to continue defending them in favor of killing you, who i think is way wolfier by play and by meta
im ignoring the negative gut feelings to this omgus post because tbh i expected it
I don't think meta is ever going to be a way to clear me and I really mean it. I genuinely can't tel you what would be clearing for me in any game in isolation except for that I just fight it with my everything and sometimes get there sometimes not.
And i think the issue this game atp is that the last wolf is in katze/cape/cuth and we can kill 2 but the third is in f3 which is an issue
And the way you're approach this point of the game as well as some bits honestly makes me consider you over the others. Youre like slowly planting seeds to include more ppl in the poe and the way you're approaching a cuth yeet and saying you have tinfoil or whatever to like stall until th point where you're in a probable f3 is just, good wolfplay and enables you to win at that stage. It's kinda how one would have to play it as wolf at this stage and you're doing exactly that so if I go with gut i 100% vote you. I don't think I'll vote cape today at all. Might go cuth but I want rask to post some as well but idk how much that'd affect my vote tbqh
And like, whenever I try to present a read or thoughts recently you've kinda shut it down pretty resolutely which makes it tougher to just actively share stuff and make cases and that's just also not towny at all.
Main issue is that it's still a super busy weekend for me, good thing nobody is posting I guess, but not really.
I'm just gonna do what I believe in for now vote: katze
If it's 2 out of 3 it's prolly katze cuth in some order for me
that post was replying to cape
i was quoting you because "kat is going for the easy way out" when you're telling me that nobody else is going to vote cape was a :really: moment
the fact you're (or anyone) clearing cape over cuth is legitimately baffling to me and the fact that he's my top wolfread and your trajectory is "take cape to f3" is imo awful
...man that post is living in my head rent free because i've been the most ironclad about my PoE out of anyone alive and you're accusing me of trying to expand it when you are giving me a free invitation to expand it by wanting to kill cuth while my true PoE has been 2 people for the last day and my "this is my PoE for lock" has been fairly stable
sorry in advance for being annoying about this but man if cape is alive in f3 i will be angy
the fact you're (or anyone) clearing cape over cuth is legitimately baffling to me and the fact that he's my top wolfread and your trajectory is "take cape to f3" is imo awful
Idk if I wrote the easy way out but rhe way you're playing it is literally how you need to play to get to f3 and have a chance tbh
Idk where you get that I'm clearing cape but I dotn know if I'll find where cape goes before you/cuth. I man if we get to tomorrow I will not just lock someone in and leave, I'll have time by then (tomorrow gameday) and I'm not just gonna lock smth in and hope for the best tbh
...man that post is living in my head rent free because i've been the most ironclad about my PoE out of anyone alive and you're accusing me of trying to expand it when you are giving me a free invitation to expand it by wanting to kill cuth while my true PoE has been 2 people for the last day and my "this is my PoE for lock" has been fairly stable
sorry in advance for being annoying about this but man if cape is alive in f3 i will be angy
I was down to go cape for a long time but uh it's still a pretty unique poe you had and thats going to be hard to just be convinced by "I believe in this i want this to happen" or smth
I'm also sounding like very harsh/mean but no hard feeling it's just I'm having a hard time being convinced by the stuff you've written. I had my own case on cape for a fairly long bit and it kinda just, fwll behind other things that made more sense
Idk if I wrote the easy way out but rhe way you're playing it is literally how you need to play to get to f3 and have a chance tbh
by refusing to let cuth die?
by barely defending myself at all?
like... i could explain how i usually play situations like this as a wolf but instead i'll ask you this: if you kill me today, will you vote cape out tomorrow over cuth?
by refusing to let cuth die?
by barely defending myself at all?
like... i could explain how i usually play situations like this as a wolf but instead i'll ask you this: if you kill me today, will you vote cape out tomorrow over cuth?
Self defense hasn't been really needed tbh, and what you"usually do" doesn't really skew me in any direction - I mean, would it do it for you re someone else? Prolly not. So yeah, I can't really say your legacy would make me blindly listen to your reads. If so, cuth would be the clear vote today cuz of benneh/rask. So yeah, if you don't make a clear case that makes a lot more sense I'm gonna have to go eith what I have on cape
I'll prolly start blank slate with whoever is alive tomorrow, its f5 and I'm planning to just wim it up insanely tbqpph (pp stands for peepee poopoo), I'll see if I have time but irl tomorrow is packed as well so I'm gonna have to do with what I have
I know you've talked about cuth and cape but the stuff you wrote yesterday, my general memory of it is just "cape doesn't feel towny, cuth feels towny" and notch more grounds for your reads, and it's not enough to make me go yea I trust kitty ze
I'm also at a graduation party and not much of what I write prolly makes sense so sorry about that I shouldn't post at all tbh
Love u kat
alrighty then
so basically unless i make a massive body of work explaining why i think cape is a wolf then you're just going to sleepwalk me -> cuth and let cape into f3 despite nobody reallllllly doing anything to convince me cuth is a hit while i have several reasons to think he's not one
im not going to make a body of work because i'm lazy and that's not how i play
shrug, i think you're town so i'm not going to get angry at this, i think the PoE is still winning as long as people don't second guess themselves in F3
but deep down there's a part of me that feels entitled enough to towncase themselves and im sad i can't just ping benneh to godread me tbh
have fun at your party! <3
alrighty then
so basically unless i make a massive body of work explaining why i think cape is a wolf then you're just going to sleepwalk me -> cuth and let cape into f3 despite nobody reallllllly doing anything to convince me cuth is a hit while i have several reasons to think he's not one
im not going to make a body of work because i'm lazy and that's not how i play
shrug, i think you're town so i'm not going to get angry at this, i think the PoE is still winning as long as people don't second guess themselves in F3
but deep down there's a part of me that feels entitled enough to towncase themselves and im sad i can't just ping benneh to godread me tbh
have fun at your party! <3
No not massove body of work but something past "he's just wolfy"? I don't think that's too much to ask if you think it's the gamewinning solve, because whatever you're talking about I don't think it weighs that hard and your motivation for it hasn't really bee clear?
I think I townread cuth for most of the reasons you've talked qbout but I think keeping a townread at this point based on that (unless you've reevaluate and stuff) is a bit of a unwarranted freebie for him tbqpph
If all you have is feels to go on then that's fine too
Idk if I explained it but I think the way you're playing now is exactly how a wolf needs to play to get to f3 and have a chance. If you don't follow the same path as a lot of others (ie not have "unique reads you deep down know you won't make happen) then you can keep saying nobody listens to me and it won't look weird. If you agree on cuth for example, changing target tomorrow and then the day after without looking sus yourself and getting yeeted will be really hard if not impossible
I don't think that trail of thought is hard to get but I do get that it doesn't feel worth trying to towncase yourself or scything but idk like there should be a way for us (all of us) to try and solve this past saying this is my splve do what you want bai
ugh
okay im just going to tell a story
in dragonvale mafia (i was mafia, you've probably heard of this game) a very similar situation to this one happened, where a player i was hard shielding was getting tinfoiled and i was in a situation where i knew it was a ML i kind of needed to win given my position in thread and, well, numerically
so i spent that entire day phase kinda twiddling my fingers trying to figure out how to get him killed without shooting myself in the foot by either outting myself to him or outting myself to everyone else
and like, i feel like if you read that day phase it's really obvious i was struggling to do so there, because my wolf style of "look good" and my wolf agenda of "you need this kill" were in direct conflict and my alive wolf partner at that point was negative utility for both of these reasons
ironically im 99% sure illario (a villager in DV) has pushed v!me after that game for treating people weirdly in this situation too but thats not important
my point is that i think cuth is clear in a vast majority of worlds and i think that the last wolf really, really wants him to get MLed this game. i've explicitly fought to keep cape alive because i know he's a villagery villager as time progresses and is prone to being wrongly read in the early game (as i was hosting a game where this literally happened that ended some point during this game)
and... he has not been villagery. when my only reason for not wanting him dead sooner was because i knew he could clear himself if V and he is not doing that then... well, i feel like that speaks for itself?
i guess i'm just prone to being scumread whenever i have any opinion when it comes to "a player i townread is no longer being townread" because i think my read still holds
so i'll just throw this at you and check the thread later cause i'll prob be out for a while
why is cuth a wolf
why is his EoD1 not clearing
why is he a higher priority than cape
ugh
okay im just going to tell a story
in dragonvale mafia (i was mafia, you've probably heard of this game) a very similar situation to this one happened, where a player i was hard shielding was getting tinfoiled and i was in a situation where i knew it was a ML i kind of needed to win given my position in thread and, well, numerically
so i spent that entire day phase kinda twiddling my fingers trying to figure out how to get him killed without shooting myself in the foot by either outting myself to him or outting myself to everyone else
and like, i feel like if you read that day phase it's really obvious i was struggling to do so there, because my wolf style of "look good" and my wolf agenda of "you need this kill" were in direct conflict and my alive wolf partner at that point was negative utility for both of these reasons
ironically im 99% sure illario (a villager in DV) has pushed v!me after that game for treating people weirdly in this situation too but thats not important
my point is that i think cuth is clear in a vast majority of worlds and i think that the last wolf really, really wants him to get MLed this game. i've explicitly fought to keep cape alive because i know he's a villagery villager as time progresses and is prone to being wrongly read in the early game (as i was hosting a game where this literally happened that ended some point during this game)
and... he has not been villagery. when my only reason for not wanting him dead sooner was because i knew he could clear himself if V and he is not doing that then... well, i feel like that speaks for itself?
i guess i'm just prone to being scumread whenever i have any opinion when it comes to "a player i townread is no longer being townread" because i think my read still holds
I think it's still.. uh.
I think we are moving past eachotehre a bit in this convo but
1) my doubts/"svumread" on you is pretty independent from your cuth read. The little that can be related to it is the stuff I've said about how you need to play to get far in this as wolf and I really bieve it'd the only way you can play it if you want to win as wolf. You need to have a plan and it kinda needs to be this plan if you don't want it to end up a lottery thingie
I think with what you're saying, and we kill cape today. What then? Would you reconsider cuth?
I literally was inthe same position as you the other day. I had the same arguments, monstr interactions, eod 1, etc. Despite the monty unvite, you just.... preferred Cape. A lot of things has made me go wait kat has tmi or is just really cool and good at mafia, but prolly both tbh
Idk if you saw the cases on cugh but they explain it a lot better than me. Its also tough because cuth activity has gone from fairly high to basically nothing. I know this isn't supposed to be a high effort game but it makes it tougher. I have no idea where uths mind is and I haven't for a good portion of the later half of this game.
So also, you position where you say that I scumread you because of your cape read, is just... not true and I'd feel a lot better if that got acknowledged in some way lol
okay i got distracted by the pokemon mash ending so hi sooner than expected
i don't really think this is how i'd play this game as a wolf, personally... i don't want to address that too much cause i don't want to turn this into a game where i stubbornly defend myself all day
i wanted cape over monty because, and i explained this at some point (apparently ISOs on this site are only the last 100 posts which is silly but at a glance its not in my last 100 posts) that i thought cape was liklier a wolf than monty because, throughout this entire game, i have had approximately zero concrete reasons to find cape as town, while i (at EoD1) had found monty to have a very villagery tinfoil and he also had the EoD1 ladd vote in his favor
if cape dies today and flips V then id legitimately be pretty shocked. i don't know if i'd go cuth next, i'd consider it for the #deadvillagers but idk. i feel pretty strongly rn that cuth is "the misyeet that the last wolf needs" and im "the misyeet that the last wolf doesnt have to fight for"
i've seen the cases on cuth and i don't recall any of it moving me, if you or someone else would dig up those posts for me i'd reread them but aorn i have little interest in finding them
also i do think your scumread on me is mostly due to my positioning on this, so... i'm not going to take that back? if you'd like to explain why you think i'm mafia then feel free, but if you do then i'll address that instead ig.
If i fewl up for it slash have time I will
I qlso don't think monty should get any cred for his close on ladd considering when it came and the unvote - sure he was town but I still think its in isolation extremely wolfy eod tbh
Regarding cuth being the misyeet the last woolf needs, I just don't u derstand it. It makes more sense to push someone that's not in the immediate poe, the immediate poe gets cleared out and then you can say I told you so now in f3 let's ypink cape because I've been pushing him for three days
Idk if I can convey it in any other way but yeah
Ye I can pull out some posts I wrote when I tried to deep dive into wolf interactions and eod and stuff and also the relevant benneh slash dead villagers stuff but it'd be as much work for me as for others
And i want rask to join soon and write about where he's qt, and not q 50 post by post catchup slash push of cuth, but like, more concentrated this is what and why
And no my scumread on you isn't mostly based on your positioning on this. It's part of it but not everything. Don't take it back tbh
I just anticipate that if activity level increases it'll end up with all 7 of us butting heads and not leading anywhere based on yesterday as well, it's why I made the post compiling everyone's poes and stuff but idk
I just want to solve this tbh
hollowkatt
05-01-2022, 00:26
I think it's still.. uh.
I think we are moving past eachotehre a bit in this convo but
1) my doubts/"svumread" on you is pretty independent from your cuth read. The little that can be related to it is the stuff I've said about how you need to play to get far in this as wolf and I really bieve it'd the only way you can play it if you want to win as wolf. You need to have a plan and it kinda needs to be this plan if you don't want it to end up a lottery thingie
I think with what you're saying, and we kill cape today. What then? Would you reconsider cuth?
I literally was inthe same position as you the other day. I had the same arguments, monstr interactions, eod 1, etc. Despite the monty unvite, you just.... preferred Cape. A lot of things has made me go wait kat has tmi or is just really cool and good at mafia, but prolly both tbh
Idk if you saw the cases on cugh but they explain it a lot better than me. Its also tough because cuth activity has gone from fairly high to basically nothing. I know this isn't supposed to be a high effort game but it makes it tougher. I have no idea where uths mind is and I haven't for a good portion of the later half of this game.
So also, you position where you say that I scumread you because of your cape read, is just... not true and I'd feel a lot better if that got acknowledged in some way lol
I think wolf katze doesn't try to steer the thread towards cape when everyone and their brother wanted monte. My POE is basically cape/cuth and frankly don't care which goes first.
I think katze has been town, I think dobby has been town.
I'm deathly afraid of Raskol wolf here and desperately want him to show up and start posting. I know he sometimes has IRL things that happen that keep him away from the thread. I do not wolf read Rask not being here.
I don't think it's Sleep either.
Players Votes
Cape90 2 (katze, hollowkatt)
katze 2 (Cape90, Dobby)
I think wolf katze doesn't try to steer the thread towards cape when everyone and their brother wanted monte. My POE is basically cape/cuth and frankly don't care which goes first.
I think katze has been town, I think dobby has been town.
I'm deathly afraid of Raskol wolf here and desperately want him to show up and start posting. I know he sometimes has IRL things that happen that keep him away from the thread. I do not wolf read Rask not being here.
I don't think it's Sleep either.
I think it's just Saturday and people not me have lives lol
I mean independently of who it is, from the situation they've been in, upper poe qll game basically, i think as wolf kat needs to do exactly that to get to f3 without looking sus but I've also said this in several posts now so I'll chill with that
I'm in my way home and like, not sober but I'm feeling a good vibe rn so I might do stuff unless I fall asleep or something worse.
Honestly we should vote visorslash for being nerdy
hollowkatt
05-01-2022, 00:48
Dobby what's the case on katze? I'm trying to understand your perspective there and I'm struggling a little bit.
hollowkatt
05-01-2022, 00:50
I think it's just Saturday and people not me have lives lol
I mean independently of who it is, from the situation they've been in, upper poe qll game basically, i think as wolf kat needs to do exactly that to get to f3 without looking sus but I've also said this in several posts now so I'll chill with that
I'm in my way home and like, not sober but I'm feeling a good vibe rn so I might do stuff unless I fall asleep or something worse.
cool nbd.
I'm here in and out this evening/tonight, then tomorrow until about 2ish hours before EOD I'll be driving to and from a funeral visitation so most of my work is gonna be today and I'll be live vibing for eod
Dobby what's the case on katze? I'm trying to understand your perspective there and I'm struggling a little bit.
The thing ive written over and over tonight or from before that? :P
because i feel like the thing ive written shoudl be pretty clear even though ive described it like shit (as in the idea should still be graspable)
im home now and by the pc, but also uh not super somer but i have some energy and i genuinely have no idea for how long ill be here tomorrow and i feel like my thread presence has been close to constant despite not being able to participate (as in i was on my phone every two minutes during the party because i cant stop updating shit) so idk how much more i want to do atm but
here we go tbh
hollowkatt
05-01-2022, 01:49
The thing ive written over and over tonight or from before that? :P
because i feel like the thing ive written shoudl be pretty clear even though ive described it like shit (as in the idea should still be graspable)
im home now and by the pc, but also uh not super somer but i have some energy and i genuinely have no idea for how long ill be here tomorrow and i feel like my thread presence has been close to constant despite not being able to participate (as in i was on my phone every two minutes during the party because i cant stop updating shit) so idk how much more i want to do atm but
here we go tbh
yeah I'm sorry I was trying to dodge just re-reading all your posts. tbh it's fine, go enjoy your evening, I'll read your stuff and we can chat some time tomorrow before EOD
No not massove body of work but something past "he's just wolfy"? I don't think that's too much to ask if you think it's the gamewinning solve, because whatever you're talking about I don't think it weighs that hard and your motivation for it hasn't really bee clear?
I think I townread cuth for most of the reasons you've talked qbout but I think keeping a townread at this point based on that (unless you've reevaluate and stuff) is a bit of a unwarranted freebie for him tbqpph
If all you have is feels to go on then that's fine too
Idk if I explained it but I think the way you're playing now is exactly how a wolf needs to play to get to f3 and have a chance. If you don't follow the same path as a lot of others (ie not have "unique reads you deep down know you won't make happen) then you can keep saying nobody listens to me and it won't look weird. If you agree on cuth for example, changing target tomorrow and then the day after without looking sus yourself and getting yeeted will be really hard if not impossible
I don't think that trail of thought is hard to get but I do get that it doesn't feel worth trying to towncase yourself or scything but idk like there should be a way for us (all of us) to try and solve this past saying this is my splve do what you want bai
hollowkatt i think this one explains my view of it best but i can rephrase it now that im not on phone if needed ( tried to reowrd it in a few posts but idk if any of them made sense)
im at home now and by the PC with a cup fo tea. its 3am so idk for how long ill be around but im vibin so ill be around for a bit.
idk if ill be here for eod, i have friends over for dinner and movienight (ive got some awesome wagyu beef and stuff so its gon be awesome)
aft erthat i might have a walrus reveal so i uh, ill prolly sxtill try to be here for eod if i know myself but the hours leading up to it dont count on it
ill prolly be on phone playing mafia during the movie though not gonna lie to myself
hollowkatt
05-01-2022, 02:14
hollowkatt i think this one explains my view of it best but i can rephrase it now that im not on phone if needed ( tried to reowrd it in a few posts but idk if any of them made sense)
im at home now and by the PC with a cup fo tea. its 3am so idk for how long ill be around but im vibin so ill be around for a bit.
idk if ill be here for eod, i have friends over for dinner and movienight (ive got some awesome wagyu beef and stuff so its gon be awesome)
aft erthat i might have a walrus reveal so i uh, ill prolly sxtill try to be here for eod if i know myself but the hours leading up to it dont count on it
ill prolly be on phone playing mafia during the movie though not gonna lie to myself
Thanks Dobby, ur the best!
Enjoy the friends and food :)
Thanks Dobby, ur the best!
Enjoy the friends and food :)
ur face is
hk
are you town, did i misclear you because you were nice in our exchange
dont lie to me
okay so
my game activity fell off because i was endgaming a mash and it sucked away all my time and energy
i sincerely apologize for multitabling but i vastly underestimate how long i would be playing the game and how involved i would be given that i was playing on a gimmick
anyway now that that cognitive load is removed i can devote my full time and energy to this game (although, um, i am bad in these endgame spots)
who's not a wolf:
neb
katze
dobby
hk
who is unlikely a wolf:
raskol
sleep
cape
who could be a wolf:
cuth
monte
this is where I'm currently at. I think neb, katze, dobby are obvs town. I think there are very good reasons to town read raskol, cape, and sleep. I think we're on cruise control to chop monte and I have very little reason to town read them. I think managing to vote all three dead wolves on D1 is either god tier luck, god tier reads, or TMI.
Cuth is in the bottom tier instead of the middle tier b/c frankly I think they've dropped off pretty damn hard. But probably it's just monte
vote: monte
if you dont want broken quotes the linked post is the one im quoting below (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053830821&viewfull=1#post2053830821)
what if:
I guess the big question of the day is this: was there a wolf on Ladd and given their role and given the way the wagon flashed out of nowhere I'm inclined to think wolves were trying to save Ladd more so than gain credit from being on his wagon. Obvs they could not be flashy about saving him b/c it would out them.
But here's a thing:
This is the vote count from 18 minutes before EOD:
Notice a complete and utter lack of Ladd wagon other than the lone Winston vote.
Here we have one wolf on newcomb, one wolf on sleep, and one wolf on raskol. I think none of those are buses.
Then we have the next count:
It's 12 minutes later and the Cuth wagon has vanished. Ladd still at 1 vote, Cuth has moved to Winston, the Raskol wagon has also dropped a voter.
One minute to go:
6 wagons with 2 votes each. At this point there is no telling who is going to go over. Nobody can claim any kind of credit from Ladd at this point as there's no real push other than from winston to get people voting for Ladd. He's the only one stumping for the chop here.
Contrast with the final vote count:
I think this shows Raskol and Sleep are town. If they are goons they are both bused to save Ladd here. I say this because again there was not a huge impetus to save Ladd. His wagon grew organically and votes were flying pretty quickly in the last minute or so of the game day.
I think it also shows that there was not a coordinated bus effort on Ladd. Kinda want to clear his whole wagon which is why I posted the first "what if" at the top.
I want to add Cuth to the "can't be a wolf here" bucket b/c why does he vote his PR on the back of Winston asking for Ladd votes when Cuth was voting Winston moments before he votes Ladd? It doesn't add up to me. I know Cuth is an insanely good player as both alignments but still, there's literally zero reasons to move to Ladd here as wolf goon when you can just stay on Raskol, not to mention moving off of Raskol puts the Cuth wagon clearly in the lead by 2 votes which is quite a bit to overcome in the last couple minutes of a game day. It did happen so it's not impossible but still, unlikely to me that Cuth is a wolf.
Then there is the monte question. I said earlier he had votes on each of the dead wolves on D1 and ended his day on the Ladd wagon.
Before that though he is pretty much parked on Raskol in the run up to the end of the day. Like Cuth what is the impetus to move to Ladd, what does wolf?Monte gain from doing that. I argue it's the same thing with Cuth. Monte wasn't highly suspected during D1, there was no gamestate reason for Monte to reach for credit like this. He also doesn't make much noise in terms of trying to capitalize on said credit.
I would argue Monte is town for the same reasons here.
So Rask, Sleep, Cuth, Monte town
Leaving
HK
Dobby
Neb
Katze
Cape
Remove myself, remove Dobby, remove Neb. Leaves Katze and Cape.
This is where I get stuck tbh. I can find reasonable reasons to town read both of them.
vote: katze
gonna try this on for a while and see how it feels.
which direction does this spew katze
Like on the one hand I can see wolfLadd telling wolf?Katze "go ahead and do whatever you want to do I'm pretty sure I'm not going over"
otoh I can see wolfLadd putting "bad reads town Katze" "in charge" of leading EOD b/c Ladd knows Katze isn't pushing on any of his team mates.
hollowkatt i just clicked through a few pages afte rthis but can you explain these flips from kat lock to kat vote to some reasoning not leading anywhere to now saying kat town
i mightve missed a few flops and stuff in between but its easier to ask you than to iso on this godforgotten site (i just wanted to use that word no offense)
anyway i'm gonna try to explain my mindset rn because i think the misunderstandings are coming from me being lazy more than anything and being misunderstood is a bit of a peeve of mine so i should stop not doing myself any favors:
i think this game is still easy; i don't really feel obligated to... try that hard to win it? like, i feel pretty good about it just being in monty or cape. if it's not there, i expect to get executed, and i might fight that a bit if it comes to it because i'm a stubborn bastard but i've already basically accepted it.
Alive: (9/17)
2. nebjiamn
3. cuthillius
6. Raskolnikov
11. Montmorency
12. roro__b
14. katze
15. Sleep
16. Cape90
17. hollowkatt
five clears still wins the game. i've been kinda solving as if i'd be one of them because i'm a villager but i get it. i'll be grumpy about it but i get it. five clears outside of myself should still be pretty easy anyway
my first clear is still raskol. i mean the lazy raeson is "lol if they're w/w with monstr" but also like, i still think they're way townier than the time i've seen them wolf (yes the situations are different, i still think the difference is quite massive), they're pretty unassociated with ladd as well... it's still lazy but i'm still confident it's correct
scond clear would still be benneh - this one is a lot less concrete in terms of "well they're obviously not w/w with the flipped wolves" - although i do think ladd treated benneh/zack p much identically and given zack flipped V he was prob just trying to pocket them both - i think benneh is just really villagery this game lmao. i was a bit paranoid towards EoD1 cause it felt like we were a bit too on the same page at times so when he just stoppd posting and kinda just sheeped me i thought it might just be deliberate, but ehhh. i've talked myself out of that and think from my experience with him he's kinda just a villager. yes this is mostly turbo/mash experience, shut up. newcomb flipping V only really reinforces this because in my experience it's way fucking harder to mindmeld with a villager about another villager than a villager about a wolf. also newcomb felt really strongly about it too :wowee:
third is cuth, and i really do not understand why people are trying to throw that name back out? i was tempted to put him above benneh simply because i think they're both villagers anyway and if they're both villagers then the order doesn't matter so me putting him higher would make people feel dumber if they went against the word of everybody, but i mean. i am technically more confident in the above two
anyway uh. again, the easy answer is "cuths EoD1 is just flat out terrible play if he's mafia ngl" but also like... there's a level of. i don't know the right word. i kinda just... feel like they're the same as they were in SF2 on like d3 onwards? the slightly-deflated-because-wrong cuth? idk. i just get about the same vibes. if the above two reads are a 10/10 in confidence this one is like a 9.5/10 still
number four... it gets a bit harder, i can't really pick one or the other so i'll just say both sleep and hollowkatt --
sleep because i'm pretty sure every player on D1 who asked about "who is sleep" has since then flipped mafia which probably just spews him V right there and now that i type this out why is this below cuth? i guess he did try to clear ender off of ladds flip? sure we'll go with that. anyway sleep is the player in this game that i read their posts and i kinda just naturally feel inclined to townread them. most games have one of these players, in my experience they're almost always villagers that i talk myself out of townreading out of paranoia at some point. i think the early cape case was still a genuine attempt to solve (note for the future: if the game is hard go double check who was under pressure around the time it got posted, i don't remember) and one of those posts that a wolf just doesn't write in most worlds
i guess there's still a little bit of paranoia here, because i feel like both of their EoDs weren't especially clearing off of memory, but i still think they're really fucking villagery and criticizing someone for being wrong on newcomb after *glances in a mirror* is kinda joycat of me
and then HK is. well, okay, i'll fully admit the fact he was basically shielding me earlier was a part of it, so the fact that changed saddens me and may have lowered him a bit subconsciously, but i think the dude's still just a villager off of posting alone. pretty sure he has some D1 posts that have aged like wine wrt "interactions with wolves" but i'm not opening an iso for a thoughtdump post that ruins the point of it
so like, i'm pretty happy with those 5
my thoughts beyond those 5 are like
well, i'm me, i'm town. hi me.
dobby has been pretty hard shielded by people i think are town and i'm not 100% sold on it personally but it kinda feels right, so i think you're probably town
and it leaves monty and cape, both people who like
i thought monty was villagery late D1. i recognize the reasons as not being great. but they existed. i recognize that the dead villagers have been significantly more anti-monty than they have been anti-cape. they haven't really been favorable towards either, tho
...i mean tbh if majority was enabled id have exactly zero problem killing either one first and then the other if it that doesn't end it but i want this game to be over or for me to die so i can do what i truly want to do and stop actually putting effort into this game. because i think it's solved. i don't think more effort is necessary. but i feel obligated to exist in thread because i agreed to play it, so here i am.
i'm not particularly happy with my play this game, and me slam dunking on the last wolf wouldn't change that either, so. i'd feel worse off if i were misclearing a wolf, i don't think i'd feel worse off if i got MLed because i frankly deserve it and have deservd it in multiple of my past towngames anyway
so... yeah. i deviated a lot from why i originally wrote this post but i'm pretty sure the intent is in there somewhere and if not then joycat
I mentioned this yesterday but
following this post i asked katze basically "okay so i'm in your poe" because i specificially wanted to include the word poe related to me to see how theyd react and what answer i would get, because, indirectly having someone in poe or even poe adjacent is a whole different thing than saying it straight out. And I got this answer which
i don't really think you're mafia i just personally have more concrete reasons to townread 6 people over you and probably would have/literally wanted you dead d2/early d3 if not for sunbaes shield
if i were going off of just last day phase and this one you'd probably be in the top 5 over... cuth or sleep?
idk. my point is more "i think it's in the bottom 2" than anything else and if it's not i'd be more willing to Put In Effort ig
The "OVER CUTH OR SLEEP" is the part i cant digest. I did ask about it specifically and got this answer
reading this from a perspective where i dont try to solve katzes alignment but like, put myself in their mindset in a t!kat situation and
wait did i do that
wtf past me LMAO
okay i dont have an answer to that ill assume it was more "hollowkatt should be higher" but
something something grumble grumble "it won't matter because they're all town anyway kill monty"
and it can just be a loltown thing but WEH why does it exist and it just adds to every other thing that makes me sus of kat.
And it feels tough as fuck to push kat because the indirect resistance from her makes me like, do it half-assed but. The things add onto eachother and i feel like there's an obvious reason for it.
i know it'd be really annoying if you were town and got me pointing out all these things that i mightve pulled out of my butt trying to find explanations in things that dont exist, but i gues its mafia and im bad at it so idk
anyway i'm gonna try to explain my mindset rn because i think the misunderstandings are coming from me being lazy more than anything and being misunderstood is a bit of a peeve of mine so i should stop not doing myself any favors:
i think this game is still easy; i don't really feel obligated to... try that hard to win it? like, i feel pretty good about it just being in monty or cape. if it's not there, i expect to get executed, and i might fight that a bit if it comes to it because i'm a stubborn bastard but i've already basically accepted it.
Alive: (9/17)
2. nebjiamn
3. cuthillius
6. Raskolnikov
11. Montmorency
12. roro__b
14. katze
15. Sleep
16. Cape90
17. hollowkatt
five clears still wins the game. i've been kinda solving as if i'd be one of them because i'm a villager but i get it. i'll be grumpy about it but i get it. five clears outside of myself should still be pretty easy anyway
my first clear is still raskol. i mean the lazy raeson is "lol if they're w/w with monstr" but also like, i still think they're way townier than the time i've seen them wolf (yes the situations are different, i still think the difference is quite massive), they're pretty unassociated with ladd as well... it's still lazy but i'm still confident it's correct
scond clear would still be benneh - this one is a lot less concrete in terms of "well they're obviously not w/w with the flipped wolves" - although i do think ladd treated benneh/zack p much identically and given zack flipped V he was prob just trying to pocket them both - i think benneh is just really villagery this game lmao. i was a bit paranoid towards EoD1 cause it felt like we were a bit too on the same page at times so when he just stoppd posting and kinda just sheeped me i thought it might just be deliberate, but ehhh. i've talked myself out of that and think from my experience with him he's kinda just a villager. yes this is mostly turbo/mash experience, shut up. newcomb flipping V only really reinforces this because in my experience it's way fucking harder to mindmeld with a villager about another villager than a villager about a wolf. also newcomb felt really strongly about it too :wowee:
third is cuth, and i really do not understand why people are trying to throw that name back out? i was tempted to put him above benneh simply because i think they're both villagers anyway and if they're both villagers then the order doesn't matter so me putting him higher would make people feel dumber if they went against the word of everybody, but i mean. i am technically more confident in the above two
anyway uh. again, the easy answer is "cuths EoD1 is just flat out terrible play if he's mafia ngl" but also like... there's a level of. i don't know the right word. i kinda just... feel like they're the same as they were in SF2 on like d3 onwards? the slightly-deflated-because-wrong cuth? idk. i just get about the same vibes. if the above two reads are a 10/10 in confidence this one is like a 9.5/10 still
number four... it gets a bit harder, i can't really pick one or the other so i'll just say both sleep and hollowkatt --
sleep because i'm pretty sure every player on D1 who asked about "who is sleep" has since then flipped mafia which probably just spews him V right there and now that i type this out why is this below cuth? i guess he did try to clear ender off of ladds flip? sure we'll go with that. anyway sleep is the player in this game that i read their posts and i kinda just naturally feel inclined to townread them. most games have one of these players, in my experience they're almost always villagers that i talk myself out of townreading out of paranoia at some point. i think the early cape case was still a genuine attempt to solve (note for the future: if the game is hard go double check who was under pressure around the time it got posted, i don't remember) and one of those posts that a wolf just doesn't write in most worlds
i guess there's still a little bit of paranoia here, because i feel like both of their EoDs weren't especially clearing off of memory, but i still think they're really fucking villagery and criticizing someone for being wrong on newcomb after *glances in a mirror* is kinda joycat of me
and then HK is. well, okay, i'll fully admit the fact he was basically shielding me earlier was a part of it, so the fact that changed saddens me and may have lowered him a bit subconsciously, but i think the dude's still just a villager off of posting alone. pretty sure he has some D1 posts that have aged like wine wrt "interactions with wolves" but i'm not opening an iso for a thoughtdump post that ruins the point of it
so like, i'm pretty happy with those 5
my thoughts beyond those 5 are like
well, i'm me, i'm town. hi me.
dobby has been pretty hard shielded by people i think are town and i'm not 100% sold on it personally but it kinda feels right, so i think you're probably town
and it leaves monty and cape, both people who like
i thought monty was villagery late D1. i recognize the reasons as not being great. but they existed. i recognize that the dead villagers have been significantly more anti-monty than they have been anti-cape. they haven't really been favorable towards either, tho
...i mean tbh if majority was enabled id have exactly zero problem killing either one first and then the other if it that doesn't end it but i want this game to be over or for me to die so i can do what i truly want to do and stop actually putting effort into this game. because i think it's solved. i don't think more effort is necessary. but i feel obligated to exist in thread because i agreed to play it, so here i am.
i'm not particularly happy with my play this game, and me slam dunking on the last wolf wouldn't change that either, so. i'd feel worse off if i were misclearing a wolf, i don't think i'd feel worse off if i got MLed because i frankly deserve it and have deservd it in multiple of my past towngames anyway
so... yeah. i deviated a lot from why i originally wrote this post but i'm pretty sure the intent is in there somewhere and if not then joycat
okay so if im going to make an attempt to get out of my tunnel, im gonna do it based ont his post to an extent because its the collected kat thoughts and easier to process and its just, a list, lists are good, usually.
Five clears wins the game - yes, that's my issue, based on the poes and reads of the players in the games we dont have those clears :p
the rask read makes sense, its a TRUE read (whether katze is town or not, and they cant be teamed so i think like, either way on two more fronts we can say rask is town, dont think you need to tinfoil even hollowkatt, although id liek to see more rasktivity (teehee i made up a word im funny 12/10 on a scale tbh)
benneh is dead
the cuth read is still there based on eod1 and "similar to a previosu towngame (btw theres at least one game ive hosted where cuth was wolf and just shat on everyone so like, he is very very capable as wolf i just feel like i dont even know what cuth has posted recently (as a contributing issue for me probabbly now that i think of it)
the HK/Sleep cases are followable tbh
the dobby tinfoil exists but sure
and yeah i guess, having cape and monty in the bottom two without cases but more like, tehyre not in the clears so therefore they can go, makes sense
that probably wasnt useful at all eh
trying to bring my brain back into the game without context at that katze post feels tonally scummy which is a dumb way to analyze a wallpost but w/e
revisiting day 1. i know theres recent content i havent processed but i kind of want to mind wipe and draw my own conclusions
(i am not considering any of the ladd voters anymore though)
hollowkatt
05-01-2022, 03:08
ur face is
hk
are you town, did i misclear you because you were nice in our exchange
dont lie to me
I am town. You did misclear me because I'm nice. You should have miscleared me b/c of how many wolves were town reading me. Especially the ones that know they can push me across the line.
Really though the best reason I can say that I'm town is that I have too narrow of a POE to actually get the chops I need to win the game.
For me to really succeed here I need to keep as many options open as I can so that I can easily fall in line with "whatever the town pushes" instead of trying to clear people like katze and raskol.
2 more dumb thoughts on why benneh died over raskolnikov
rask pushed cuth super hard, benneh pushed cuth pretty hard
there wasa little tinfoil on benneh expressed (or maybe just from me) in thread so that couldve potentially been taken advantage of by wolf
rask not dying could be because the woof wants cuth to keep being hard pushed by someone (although benneh did it too he wasnt as passionate about it as rask was)
and theres also the viewpoint where, if rask does die, reading into "why did rask die over benneh" would be 500 red fat arrows pointing at cuth
but that could also be done to get a free kill on cuth
but having cuth in f3 is a cool thing for wolves if cuth is town because ending the game without cuth dying is like... kinda lol
and yes to clarify my issue with today because i dont think i have worded it out (im bolding because i think reading this post will be awful if anyone even tries it and this might improve readability but i think i have actually good thoughts here)
READ THIS PART IF UR GONNA READ ANYTHING pls
I was very set on Cuth or Katze yoink for today, and Katze is hard shielding Cuth now. Meaning if I'm going to trust Katze as town or potential town, I need to find someone outside of those two. That'd probably be Cape. But katze and Cuth feel way higher on my priority list. And it's a perfect scenario for wolf katze to try and get to endstages of the game with. It's not as beneficial for anyone else.
So if Katze is actually town, the Cuth read is real. If Cuth is town, Katzes read on Cuth could be fake, but Katze can also go back to saying "I was wrong sorry" and it won't get us any closer to solving Katze, and then we either yoink katze or we go someone else and BAM f3 where anything can happen.
So like, any logical thoughts i might have just tell me Katze is the best yeet, but looking at the above, another yoink chain that doesn't make the game impossible COULD be Cape -> Katze and then f3 with Cuth +2 (probably HK and me or Sleep unless someone wants to keep the rask tinfoil alive)
That would mean we leave Cuth til f3. But if Cape is town, we HAVE to kill katze after for any of it to make sense according to the above, and uh, sure that is fine but awful to drag the game out
that was more than 2 thoughts
I am town. You did misclear me because I'm nice. You should have miscleared me b/c of how many wolves were town reading me. Especially the ones that know they can push me across the line.
Really though the best reason I can say that I'm town is that I have too narrow of a POE to actually get the chops I need to win the game.
For me to really succeed here I need to keep as many options open as I can so that I can easily fall in line with "whatever the town pushes" instead of trying to clear people like katze and raskol.
clearing becuse of wolves townreading you is bad lol
i like the narrow poe thing, ur good
if we are in f3 ill care but yeah, i think i had a chain of posts linked that id love to see answered but thats just for ease of mind smth and seeing if i can find out what others find is good abotu katze
(also youre describing what i think katze is doing - speaking of your asking me what made me sus katze, keeping the poe open, focusing on poe adjacent slots and trying to make actual poe slots live til later, perfect example of how to efficiently keep the poe widened without being obvious about it)
this game is annoying because if i were mafia my path to victory would be shutting up and letting you kill cuth today and im being scumread for it and i kind of want to say "fuck it just kill cuth" but if i do that then i feel like i'd get scumread even more for it
yes this is a self conscious post
hollowkatt
05-01-2022, 03:19
if you dont want broken quotes the linked post is the one im quoting below (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053830821&viewfull=1#post2053830821)
hollowkatt i just clicked through a few pages afte rthis but can you explain these flips from kat lock to kat vote to some reasoning not leading anywhere to now saying kat town
i mightve missed a few flops and stuff in between but its easier to ask you than to iso on this godforgotten site (i just wanted to use that word no offense)
Sure, I can talk about that for a while.
I've been town reading katze for most of the game and do think the meta read that I dropped is still pretty valid. But in the interest of doing my due diligence I went back through the votes in the run-up to EOD1.
D1 is the only day when a wolf really got wagoned, pressured, and then eliminated. The D2 wolf was a bomb and the D3 wolf was from a bomb as well. So D1 is really the best associatives day that we have available to us. It's also the day when the most groundwork is being laid and people have, generally speaking, the flimsiest reasons for reads just because there's less to work with.
That being said the large post you quoted (fuck this site for multiquotes btw) clearly starts out with a "what if" situation. I wrote that post assuming everyone on the Ladd wagon was pure, and worked the game from that angle, which lead me to Cape/Katze as the last people where the wolf could be hiding.
I cleared Monte and Cuth by virtue of how they arrived at the Ladd wagon, where they were before hand, and thinking about why/how a partner would bus their valuable PR (yes I think even N3 sorcerer has value) compared to any of the goons (monstr tbh would have been a great bus target there).
Then when I was doing my re-read of D1 looking at what Ladd had posted I came across the post where Ladd tells Katze to run EOD and wondered how that spewed Katze. I concluded that it could be a bad look.
After removing the Ladd wagon from possible wolf-pack members it was down to me, you, neb, katze, cape. Obvs I remove myself. Neb was obvs town. I got to a town read on you when we were talking during D2 when you were pushing me. You weren't posting like you knew my alignment so I went with the assumption that you were legit solving me, not pushing me to get a mischop.
That would literally leave Katze and Cape and that I could find reasons to town read both of them.
Katze via meta in terms of their wolf game being holistically different than what I've seen here, and Cape b/c he does have some good thoughts and good posts.
I decided to try voting Katze to see what anyone else would say or think about that, whether or not it would start a wagon or if I would get push back. Unfortunately that post was largely ignored until you brought it up now.
When I didn't get any traction on Katze I decided that maybe I was seeing things that aren't there, and that maybe clearing the entire ladd wagon wasn't a smart idea, so I went back eventually to monte for the chop. Do regret that chop.
Anyways, I want to believe in my meta read on katze and I want to believe they're playing in a way that makes it very hard for katze wolf to win.
I want to believe in my read on Cape where he functionally vanishes when he's not being pressured or suspected and only pops back up to really get involved when he's carrying a few votes.
i guess i f i could explain my feelings on reading that katze post in more tangible terms, it feels like she's willing herself toward conclusions rather than letting them form. this is possibly dumb! i know it's more or less her writing style
this game is annoying because if i were mafia my path to victory would be shutting up and letting you kill cuth today and im being scumread for it and i kind of want to say "fuck it just kill cuth" but if i do that then i feel like i'd get scumread even more for it
yes this is a self conscious post
ok
i mean im gstill gonna reread cape having finally played a game with him where i just locktowned him and never looked back
ok
i mean im gstill gonna reread cape having finally played a game with him where i just locktowned him and never looked back
i thought he was way townier from my following of that game but i didn't read it super closely so im not going to force that conclusion on you
im hrete at 4:15am after a night out playing mafia with big brain thoughts, and this isnt even my final form pls kill me before f3
Vote: Cape90
I'm going to read everything by and about Cape tomorrow during what little time i have and see if i'm being too nice to him tbqpph. If i wake up before 5pm ill have a couple of hours to do it, hopefully i will.
I think ((or im fairly confident in it) we dont vote cuth here. See my last post. I think instead of taking this one step at a time we need to optimize for f3. Who do we want in f3, and who do we NOT want there. And, on the way to f3, what gives us the most to work with. Pls see my last post :wowee: . I think the correct yeet is either Katze or Cape. I have a ton of stuff in my brain yellin at me to vote kat and stuff but i want to get this right but any order of cape/katze is fine.
If i vote katze, its because i vote the one that makes most sense for me to be scum
If i vote cape its because that'd lead to katze, if her strat is the one im talking about, having to change strategy to get to f3.
If i vote cuth itd be because its also a vote that makes sense to make, but not getting as strong w vibes like i do with kat. So mh
Unless rask comes in and tries to bruteforce a cuth yoink to try and end the game i might focus on cape mainly, with a side of katze
but ill leave my vote for now to pressure myself into spending time that i shouldnt have on this
this game is annoying because if i were mafia my path to victory would be shutting up and letting you kill cuth today and im being scumread for it and i kind of want to say "fuck it just kill cuth" but if i do that then i feel like i'd get scumread even more for it
yes this is a self conscious post
idk if i can make it make sense but
being mafia and especially good at mafia (i havent wanted to say it til now because im sure it sucks to hear but, ur champ after a wolf win tbh and not without reason) means you dont do what youre expected to do as mafia, right? i literally just talked about what your approach to a cuth yoink could be and how youd proceed from there in one of my rants
and it makes more sense for me that you play like you do right now as wolf, than if youd be on a cuth wagon or let cuth die. because this way of playing takes w!katze to f3 without it looking weird. if cuth dies, you will have more eyes on you.
(also reread your sentence it doesnt make sense lol. if i were mafia id let cuth die but i cant let cuth die because id get more scumread for it"
unless im smolbraining here
Sure, I can talk about that for a while.
I've been town reading katze for most of the game and do think the meta read that I dropped is still pretty valid. But in the interest of doing my due diligence I went back through the votes in the run-up to EOD1.
D1 is the only day when a wolf really got wagoned, pressured, and then eliminated. The D2 wolf was a bomb and the D3 wolf was from a bomb as well. So D1 is really the best associatives day that we have available to us. It's also the day when the most groundwork is being laid and people have, generally speaking, the flimsiest reasons for reads just because there's less to work with.
That being said the large post you quoted (fuck this site for multiquotes btw) clearly starts out with a "what if" situation. I wrote that post assuming everyone on the Ladd wagon was pure, and worked the game from that angle, which lead me to Cape/Katze as the last people where the wolf could be hiding.
I cleared Monte and Cuth by virtue of how they arrived at the Ladd wagon, where they were before hand, and thinking about why/how a partner would bus their valuable PR (yes I think even N3 sorcerer has value) compared to any of the goons (monstr tbh would have been a great bus target there).
Then when I was doing my re-read of D1 looking at what Ladd had posted I came across the post where Ladd tells Katze to run EOD and wondered how that spewed Katze. I concluded that it could be a bad look.
After removing the Ladd wagon from possible wolf-pack members it was down to me, you, neb, katze, cape. Obvs I remove myself. Neb was obvs town. I got to a town read on you when we were talking during D2 when you were pushing me. You weren't posting like you knew my alignment so I went with the assumption that you were legit solving me, not pushing me to get a mischop.
That would literally leave Katze and Cape and that I could find reasons to town read both of them.
Katze via meta in terms of their wolf game being holistically different than what I've seen here, and Cape b/c he does have some good thoughts and good posts.
I decided to try voting Katze to see what anyone else would say or think about that, whether or not it would start a wagon or if I would get push back. Unfortunately that post was largely ignored until you brought it up now.
When I didn't get any traction on Katze I decided that maybe I was seeing things that aren't there, and that maybe clearing the entire ladd wagon wasn't a smart idea, so I went back eventually to monte for the chop. Do regret that chop.
Anyways, I want to believe in my meta read on katze and I want to believe they're playing in a way that makes it very hard for katze wolf to win.
I want to believe in my read on Cape where he functionally vanishes when he's not being pressured or suspected and only pops back up to really get involved when he's carrying a few votes.
alright, checks out tbh.
can i just ask about the bolded tbh. I have stated a few times why i think this is exactly how katze wolf needs to play to win and i hope you read it and understood my viewpoint and if not let me know and ill try to rewrite it til you get how it could make sense for me because i feel like its vital to get that specific thing before deciding where you land
the cape read you're describing there - is that a thing he does as town or as wolf? I think its a kinda weak thing in meta terms ish but alrgugt.
And if it's a read on how cape plays as town, you are voting him now y tho
idk if i can make it make sense but
being mafia and especially good at mafia (i havent wanted to say it til now because im sure it sucks to hear but, ur champ after a wolf win tbh and not without reason) means you dont do what youre expected to do as mafia, right? i literally just talked about what your approach to a cuth yoink could be and how youd proceed from there in one of my rants
and it makes more sense for me that you play like you do right now as wolf, than if youd be on a cuth wagon or let cuth die. because this way of playing takes w!katze to f3 without it looking weird. if cuth dies, you will have more eyes on you.
(also reread your sentence it doesnt make sense lol. if i were mafia id let cuth die but i cant let cuth die because id get more scumread for it"
unless im smolbraining here
uh it kinda doesnt make sense when i write it out but in my head its like
i feel like my play today is really suboptimal for w!me and if i were a wolf then me taking cuth out of the "consensus" PoE while my proposed PoE doesn't have him in it (effectively meaning that my previously planned path to victory did not require a cuth ML) is kinda silly
and right now im in a position where i feel like my genuine opinions are getting me scumread more than me just taking the easy way out and letting you kill cuth which w!me would absolutely want to do
but yes, i've joked a ton this game that im being scumread because of #TheFear, and it's part of why i'm explicitly not trying to towncase myself or like, say that i think i'm obvious town. like... i think i am, i think hollowkatt has pointed out multiple reasons i am a villager this game, and i could point out more if i really wanted to.
but ultimately i'm just tired of it. if it's not cape i want to be voted out because being alive in a potential F3 in this game would just suck. and while i think i can make a good towncase on myself, it's probably just going to be met with #TheFear and not be worth my time. so im just accepting the fact that i'm getting executed this game and i'd likely shoot future w!katze games in the foot by explaining why i'm not a wolf here.
uhh that was probably a tangent but meh. i think cuth is town i think cape is mafia i want to kill cape today but if you kill me instead then my legacy is kill cape tomorrow and if that's not it then you're free to laugh at me in dvc/f3
i guess i f i could explain my feelings on reading that katze post in more tangible terms, it feels like she's willing herself toward conclusions rather than letting them form. this is possibly dumb! i know it's more or less her writing style
trying to bring my brain back into the game without context at that katze post feels tonally scummy which is a dumb way to analyze a wallpost but w/e
its definitely part of the tonal part of my motivation fr why i think it could be kat so i get and share it :P
being called tonally wolfy is actually p new to me, in usually i get toneread V regardless of alignment ~:cool:
hollowkatt
05-01-2022, 03:42
clearing becuse of wolves townreading you is bad lol
i like the narrow poe thing, ur good
if we are in f3 ill care but yeah, i think i had a chain of posts linked that id love to see answered but thats just for ease of mind smth and seeing if i can find out what others find is good abotu katze
(also youre describing what i think katze is doing - speaking of your asking me what made me sus katze, keeping the poe open, focusing on poe adjacent slots and trying to make actual poe slots live til later, perfect example of how to efficiently keep the poe widened without being obvious about it)
I yam yeah.
ok, I want to believe you, and this ties into a post I haven't written yet responding with my thoughts on your post before the one I'm responding to.
If Katze = wolf great, game is over.
If Katze = town and dies today do we get any closer to understanding who the last wolf is? Town Katze town reading Cuth I think is a good look for Cuth because Katze is a smart cookie and when town generally has really good insights into what other people are doing.
Katze town doesn't really give us more information on Cape as Katze is shielding Cape far less than they are shielding Cuth.
Wolf Katze probably doesn't care about shielding Cape, town Katze probably cares more about shielding Cuth just in terms of raw potential for the rest of the game should town katze be killed.
The longer we go sans Raskol the more I want to wolf read him. Partially because in this situation/game state inactivity is very wolfy.
If town is eating itself, and it appears as if we are, not getting involved is highly profitable for the last wolf. This is veering into random tinfoil territory and please slap me out of it if I'm being dumb, but it feels like the last wolf here wants us to continue being wrong more than they want to do anything of substance.
This could also point to Cuth and Sleep today. At least the three of us (me, you, katze) are showing up and making posts. Meh and weh I guess?
If we're wrong and it's not Katze I want to think about who dies next. Probs within you, me, maybe sleep. Probs not cape, cuth, or raskol.
There's 7 of us alive, one is a wolf.
6 - 1
be wrong
5 - 1
nk
4 - 1
be wrong
3 - 1
nk
2 - 1
if we can be wrong twice tbh does it really matter?
I decided I'm not responding to the post you made above this post, I'm just gonna quote it here:
2 more dumb thoughts on why benneh died over raskolnikov
rask pushed cuth super hard, benneh pushed cuth pretty hard
there wasa little tinfoil on benneh expressed (or maybe just from me) in thread so that couldve potentially been taken advantage of by wolf
rask not dying could be because the woof wants cuth to keep being hard pushed by someone (although benneh did it too he wasnt as passionate about it as rask was)
and theres also the viewpoint where, if rask does die, reading into "why did rask die over benneh" would be 500 red fat arrows pointing at cuth
but that could also be done to get a free kill on cuth
but having cuth in f3 is a cool thing for wolves if cuth is town because ending the game without cuth dying is like... kinda lol
and yes to clarify my issue with today because i dont think i have worded it out (im bolding because i think reading this post will be awful if anyone even tries it and this might improve readability but i think i have actually good thoughts here)
READ THIS PART IF UR GONNA READ ANYTHING pls
I was very set on Cuth or Katze yoink for today, and Katze is hard shielding Cuth now. Meaning if I'm going to trust Katze as town or potential town, I need to find someone outside of those two. That'd probably be Cape. But katze and Cuth feel way higher on my priority list. And it's a perfect scenario for wolf katze to try and get to endstages of the game with. It's not as beneficial for anyone else.
So if Katze is actually town, the Cuth read is real. If Cuth is town, Katzes read on Cuth could be fake, but Katze can also go back to saying "I was wrong sorry" and it won't get us any closer to solving Katze, and then we either yoink katze or we go someone else and BAM f3 where anything can happen.
So like, any logical thoughts i might have just tell me Katze is the best yeet, but looking at the above, another yoink chain that doesn't make the game impossible COULD be Cape -> Katze and then f3 with Cuth +2 (probably HK and me or Sleep unless someone wants to keep the rask tinfoil alive)
That would mean we leave Cuth til f3. But if Cape is town, we HAVE to kill katze after for any of it to make sense according to the above, and uh, sure that is fine but awful to drag the game out
On a completely unrelated note, is there value in understanding the growth of the monte wagon and what reasons people gave for joining it? Obvs the wolf is on there, but positioning, reasons, etc might be a clue.
that was more than 2 thoughts
If Katze town flip Cape next, F3 is some combination of me, you, cuth, sleep, rask; probs rask, sleep, cuth tbh
If Cape town flip Katze next, F3 again same combination.
should we get to f3 that is
flipping cape first and they are town basically means you have to flip katze next anyways. Flipping Katze town does not necessarily mean you have to flip cape next, but likely it does.
uh it kinda doesnt make sense when i write it out but in my head its like
i feel like my play today is really suboptimal for w!me and if i were a wolf then me taking cuth out of the "consensus" PoE while my proposed PoE doesn't have him in it (effectively meaning that my previously planned path to victory did not require a cuth ML) is kinda silly
and right now im in a position where i feel like my genuine opinions are getting me scumread more than me just taking the easy way out and letting you kill cuth which w!me would absolutely want to do
but yes, i've joked a ton this game that im being scumread because of #TheFear, and it's part of why i'm explicitly not trying to towncase myself or like, say that i think i'm obvious town. like... i think i am, i think hollowkatt has pointed out multiple reasons i am a villager this game, and i could point out more if i really wanted to.
but ultimately i'm just tired of it. if it's not cape i want to be voted out because being alive in a potential F3 in this game would just suck. and while i think i can make a good towncase on myself, it's probably just going to be met with #TheFear and not be worth my time. so im just accepting the fact that i'm getting executed this game and i'd likely shoot future w!katze games in the foot by explaining why i'm not a wolf here.
uhh that was probably a tangent but meh. i think cuth is town i think cape is mafia i want to kill cape today but if you kill me instead then my legacy is kill cape tomorrow and if that's not it then you're free to laugh at me in dvc/f3
i think ive talked about the order of the three of you that makes sense to do so i wont reiterate that.
i dont get why i keep trying to make you understand why i disagree so hard on why i think it mkaes sense for you as a wolf to play this way, because like, im not gonna make you scumread yourself right
but let me try one last time then im leaving this discussion behidn.
i feel like my play today is really suboptimal for w!me and if i were a wolf then me taking cuth out of the "consensus" PoE while my proposed PoE doesn't have him in it (effectively meaning that my previously planned path to victory did not require a cuth ML) is kinda silly
You are wolf in f7/f9. There are 2 clears who wants to kill cuth. You know cuth is a misyeet, and strong voices want him dead. You shield cuth because if you can keep him alive as long as possible in the game - preferably to f3 - you will win with him being misyeeted the right moment. Having cuth die now is bad for you, in that it puts you as a higher priority target or maybe next in line even.
and im not going to have it as a main point here because its just an added-on thing rather than something that got me to this read on you - but the fac that you didnt seem certain enough to keep cuth in your clears when i asked if i was poe (you said id maybe swap cuth out, i just requoted it in one of my last posts) makes me feel like, you dont feel that strongly about cuth town really, you just want to keep doors open to adapt your play based on how game progresses
i really feel like im talking like someone deep in a tunnel now but thats why im going to go into tomorrow pretending to my brain that cape is my top wolfread and im already voting him to see if i can approach it froma diferent mindset than "i think its cuth or kazte."
hollowkatt
05-01-2022, 03:47
this game is annoying because if i were mafia my path to victory would be shutting up and letting you kill cuth today and im being scumread for it and i kind of want to say "fuck it just kill cuth" but if i do that then i feel like i'd get scumread even more for it
yes this is a self conscious post
what's the basis for the town read on cuth AND, what do you think the last wolf was doing during EOD1?
Remember, here were the wagons:
Players Votes
ladd 4 (Winston Hughes, Cuthillius, Montmorency, Raskolnikov)
Newcomb 3 (Enderwiggin, katze, Sleep)
Raskolnikov 3 (Monstrdude, nebjiamn, Dobby)
Sleep 2 (ladd, Newcomb)
Csargo 2 (Cape90, hollowkatt)
Enderwiggin 1 (zack)
Montmorency 1 (Sunbae)
hollowkatt 1 (Csargo)
This is the final tally I have.
Pm me or dm me on discord if there are any corrections.
If Cape90 is the last wolf why not tie newcomb or rask with Ladd? if I'm the last wolf again, same thing. If it's Dobby (and I don't think you think it is) he could have joined ender on newcomb as well. same with sleep in terms of get Raskol, same with you in terms of get Raskol.
Basically I don't understand why Ladd died is what it all comes down to. anyways, ur thoughts would be appreciated.
If town is eating itself, and it appears as if we are, not getting involved is highly profitable for the last wolf. This is veering into random tinfoil territory and please slap me out of it if I'm being dumb, but it feels like the last wolf here wants us to continue being wrong more than they want to do anything of substance.
ive considered worlds where me/cuth/cape are all town and the last wolf is kinda just sitting to the side and letting the game play out because they don't need to do anything, and yeah in those worlds its basically always sleep/raskol
sleep i guess is tinfoilable but i don't really see myself considering raskol w any time soon? unless im flat out underestimating him i still think he's waaaaaay townier this game than he was in swag city and he still has eod1 going for him
i dont have the wim to do a metadive on him or anything so
wait nvm im never considering rask hes not w/w with monstr lol
so in that world i can rly only see it being sleep
shrug, i'll let it marinate in my head for a bit but i still think its just cape :p
i feel so incredibly uncomfy not having a good iso feature to get myself back up to speed
hollowkatt
05-01-2022, 03:51
Anyways, I want to believe in my meta read on katze and I want to believe they're playing in a way that makes it very hard for katze wolf to win.
I want to believe in my read on Cape where he functionally vanishes when he's not being pressured or suspected and only pops back up to really get involved when he's carrying a few votes.
alright, checks out tbh.
can i just ask about the bolded tbh. I have stated a few times why i think this is exactly how katze wolf needs to play to win and i hope you read it and understood my viewpoint and if not let me know and ill try to rewrite it til you get how it could make sense for me because i feel like its vital to get that specific thing before deciding where you land
the cape read you're describing there - is that a thing he does as town or as wolf? I think its a kinda weak thing in meta terms ish but alrgugt.
And if it's a read on how cape plays as town, you are voting him now y tho
I put the bold back in for easy of reference.
Yes, I agree with you that w?Katze would have to play things out the way they have to win. I have walked that part backwards. I do still think there's a functional difference between how I've seen Katze wolf (champs/hydra) vs what I have seen here, but I will not rely purely on meta to make a read, that's just not something I can do.
I have no idea if that's how Cape wolfs or towns, it's just an observation on his play this game. He feels like he slips away when nobody is paying attention to him and only really makes bursts of posts when there's some amount of suspicion on him OR there's a push that needs input, which is why I generally prefer a Cape chop over a Katze chop, but I am coming around to the idea that neither of them can make F3.
i think ive talked about the order of the three of you that makes sense to do so i wont reiterate that.
i dont get why i keep trying to make you understand why i disagree so hard on why i think it mkaes sense for you as a wolf to play this way, because like, im not gonna make you scumread yourself right
but let me try one last time then im leaving this discussion behidn.
You are wolf in f7/f9. There are 2 clears who wants to kill cuth. You know cuth is a misyeet, and strong voices want him dead. You shield cuth because if you can keep him alive as long as possible in the game - preferably to f3 - you will win with him being misyeeted the right moment. Having cuth die now is bad for you, in that it puts you as a higher priority target or maybe next in line even.
and im not going to have it as a main point here because its just an added-on thing rather than something that got me to this read on you - but the fac that you didnt seem certain enough to keep cuth in your clears when i asked if i was poe (you said id maybe swap cuth out, i just requoted it in one of my last posts) makes me feel like, you dont feel that strongly about cuth town really, you just want to keep doors open to adapt your play based on how game progresses
i really feel like im talking like someone deep in a tunnel now but thats why im going to go into tomorrow pretending to my brain that cape is my top wolfread and im already voting him to see if i can approach it froma diferent mindset than "i think its cuth or kazte."
to bolded specifically: i felt strongly that the wolf was in cape/monte and said as such, i emphasized that i thought your play around then was very villagery to me
and yeah i GET that w!me would be happy to bring a tinfoiled v!cuth to f3 but i think (thought? probably doesnt even apply that much anymore due to the sheer amount of tinfoil there, in my eyes w!me would always kill him before f3 tho) he'd prob just get NKed before F3 anyway
what's the basis for the town read on cuth AND, what do you think the last wolf was doing during EOD1?
Remember, here were the wagons:
If Cape90 is the last wolf why not tie newcomb or rask with Ladd? if I'm the last wolf again, same thing. If it's Dobby (and I don't think you think it is) he could have joined ender on newcomb as well. same with sleep in terms of get Raskol, same with you in terms of get Raskol.
Basically I don't understand why Ladd died is what it all comes down to. anyways, ur thoughts would be appreciated.
im p sure cape wasnt around during EoD?
weh
whatever im not shielding cuth anymore
this isn't worth my sanity
go fucking wild i still think he's a villager
hollowkatt
05-01-2022, 03:59
ive considered worlds where me/cuth/cape are all town and the last wolf is kinda just sitting to the side and letting the game play out because they don't need to do anything, and yeah in those worlds its basically always sleep/raskol
sleep i guess is tinfoilable but i don't really see myself considering raskol w any time soon? unless im flat out underestimating him i still think he's waaaaaay townier this game than he was in swag city and he still has eod1 going for him
i dont have the wim to do a metadive on him or anything so
wait nvm im never considering rask hes not w/w with monstr lol
so in that world i can rly only see it being sleep
shrug, i'll let it marinate in my head for a bit but i still think its just cape :p
flat out agree with you that if you, cape, and cuth are all clear the last wolf 100% of the time is within sleep/raskol.
if dobby and myself both make F3 I will tinfoil him as the wolf b/c I think he's been townie enough to die soon, probably tonight.
BTW before i forget
This is one of the most impressive wolf performances on MU imo and it's cuth's (https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/26642-Haunted-by-Slep-The-Monster-Invitational)
It's a 15er
Cuth, Master Radishes and Macdougall are the wolves, SUPER stacked playerlist.
D1 MR gets eliminated
D3 Macdougall gets eliminated. Cuth plays solo until D7 (!!!!!!!!) and gets to F3, and just wins. Just read bits of that game, look at cuth's tone. He plays so fuckin well (sorry cuth i know you dont like it when i give you compliments) and i feel like it's that kind of wolf performance that everyone should have in mind always
Macdougall
nutella
Dp101
Lissa
Cuthalion
Logic
Mantichora
Boquise
Ephemeral
Waluigi (atpg)
Frog
Hally
Master Radishes
Chemist1422
Marcher Jovian
Look at this EoD1.
Just the votes
This is the votecount at :57
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/641331542047850518/970156677796089866/unknown.png
Cuth makes a vote to make it
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/641331542047850518/970156787292590110/unknown.png
and then MR gets a few quick votes and gets yeeted.
Idk just skim through his posts there and tell me you dont think he could be wolf based on tone and eod. comparing him to sf and saying "his tone is similar to his towngame" instead of saying "his tone is different from his wolfgame" is... one carries a lot more weight than the other imo.
what's the basis for the town read on cuth AND, what do you think the last wolf was doing during EOD1?
Remember, here were the wagons:
If Cape90 is the last wolf why not tie newcomb or rask with Ladd? if I'm the last wolf again, same thing. If it's Dobby (and I don't think you think it is) he could have joined ender on newcomb as well. same with sleep in terms of get Raskol, same with you in terms of get Raskol.
Basically I don't understand why Ladd died is what it all comes down to. anyways, ur thoughts would be appreciated.
Neither you or cape were present, though? This shift all happened within minutes. Are you actually reading back for context when you say this stuff?
hollowkatt
05-01-2022, 04:03
to bolded specifically: i felt strongly that the wolf was in cape/monte and said as such, i emphasized that i thought your play around then was very villagery to me
and yeah i GET that w!me would be happy to bring a tinfoiled v!cuth to f3 but i think (thought? probably doesnt even apply that much anymore due to the sheer amount of tinfoil there, in my eyes w!me would always kill him before f3 tho) he'd prob just get NKed before F3 anyway
im p sure cape wasnt around during EoD?
yeah capes last post was about 6pm D1 and EOD was 2 hours later. thanks for pointing that out. myself, dobby, sleep I think all were tho
I put the bold back in for easy of reference.
Yes, I agree with you that w?Katze would have to play things out the way they have to win. I have walked that part backwards. I do still think there's a functional difference between how I've seen Katze wolf (champs/hydra) vs what I have seen here, but I will not rely purely on meta to make a read, that's just not something I can do.
I have no idea if that's how Cape wolfs or towns, it's just an observation on his play this game. He feels like he slips away when nobody is paying attention to him and only really makes bursts of posts when there's some amount of suspicion on him OR there's a push that needs input, which is why I generally prefer a Cape chop over a Katze chop, but I am coming around to the idea that neither of them can make F3.
I like this post, i agree on the bursts smth smth thing now that youve worded it for me, i agree but i dont know that i can call it towny or wolfy ither though yeah.
Man it hurts my tummy bbut i deleted my post in response to your wall with the 7-1 5-.1s and stuff
ill see if i can muster emotional power to rewrite it
hollowkatt
05-01-2022, 04:06
Neither you or cape were present, though? This shift all happened within minutes. Are you actually reading back for context when you say this stuff?
no, just looking at the vote count.
my post where I read back for content is this one: 2394 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053830821&viewfull=1#post2053830821)
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA im literally writing 4 simultaneous posts in different tabs because my mind is everywhere and i fucking closed two down because i thought they were just pages with posts i wanted to remember to include
and i lost like two walls im gonna cry
(lmfao i didnt post this either before i posted that other thing so im just gonna click send)
hollowkatt
05-01-2022, 04:08
I like this post, i agree on the bursts smth smth thing now that youve worded it for me, i agree but i dont know that i can call it towny or wolfy ither though yeah.
Man it hurts my tummy bbut i deleted my post in response to your wall with the 7-1 5-.1s and stuff
ill see if i can muster emotional power to rewrite it
don't physically ail yourself on my behalf
ive considered worlds where me/cuth/cape are all town and the last wolf is kinda just sitting to the side and letting the game play out because they don't need to do anything, and yeah in those worlds its basically always sleep/raskol
sleep i guess is tinfoilable but i don't really see myself considering raskol w any time soon? unless im flat out underestimating him i still think he's waaaaaay townier this game than he was in swag city and he still has eod1 going for him
i dont have the wim to do a metadive on him or anything so
wait nvm im never considering rask hes not w/w with monstr lol
so in that world i can rly only see it being sleep
shrug, i'll let it marinate in my head for a bit but i still think its just cape :p
i dont know if any world exists where not 2 of you die and the third one is always in f3, at that point yeah whoever it is any legacies or whatnot wont mean anything and just needs to be a "why is this person still alive" fest.
i dont know if any world exists where not 2 of you die and the third one is always in f3, at that point yeah whoever it is any legacies or whatnot wont mean anything and just needs to be a "why is this person still alive" fest.
yeah please dont let me be the one in F3 for the love of god
id rather get MLed than in that F3 and if you know me you know how much i hate being MLed
Idk just skim through his posts there and tell me you dont think he could be wolf based on tone and eod. comparing him to sf and saying "his tone is similar to his towngame" instead of saying "his tone is different from his wolfgame" is... one carries a lot more weight than the other imo.
just for the record, the game i referenced earlier where he beat me in f3 was a similar one where his teammates went down d1/d3/4, he hopped on bussing all of them, i caught on to the idea it might be him but didn't argue it strong enough to convince people and got hammered in f3. during that f3 i spent several days meta diving him and most of the mafia games i could find he townsided pretty hard and always kept his teammates in POE but only pushed them when necessary. (that game was one of the ones he studied). he didn't really do that in the SK 18er but he didnt really get a chance to)
i keep saying i don't wanna vote him because it feels like...unideal if he is town because he probably gets NKed in those worlds but its like. in my head i dont see it being you or rask, and probably not hk, the thing about default voting him in f3 is 100% true. i didn't really townread his posts this game but im still operating on a brain wipe
I yam yeah.
ok, I want to believe you, and this ties into a post I haven't written yet responding with my thoughts on your post before the one I'm responding to.
If Katze = wolf great, game is over.
If Katze = town and dies today do we get any closer to understanding who the last wolf is? Town Katze town reading Cuth I think is a good look for Cuth because Katze is a smart cookie and when town generally has really good insights into what other people are doing.
Katze town doesn't really give us more information on Cape as Katze is shielding Cape far less than they are shielding Cuth.
Wolf Katze probably doesn't care about shielding Cape, town Katze probably cares more about shielding Cuth just in terms of raw potential for the rest of the game should town katze be killed.
The longer we go sans Raskol the more I want to wolf read him. Partially because in this situation/game state inactivity is very wolfy.
If town is eating itself, and it appears as if we are, not getting involved is highly profitable for the last wolf. This is veering into random tinfoil territory and please slap me out of it if I'm being dumb, but it feels like the last wolf here wants us to continue being wrong more than they want to do anything of substance.
This could also point to Cuth and Sleep today. At least the three of us (me, you, katze) are showing up and making posts. Meh and weh I guess?
If we're wrong and it's not Katze I want to think about who dies next. Probs within you, me, maybe sleep. Probs not cape, cuth, or raskol.
There's 7 of us alive, one is a wolf.
6 - 1
be wrong
5 - 1
nk
4 - 1
be wrong
3 - 1
nk
2 - 1
if we can be wrong twice tbh does it really matter?
I decided I'm not responding to the post you made above this post, I'm just gonna quote it here:
If Katze town flip Cape next, F3 is some combination of me, you, cuth, sleep, rask; probs rask, sleep, cuth tbh
If Cape town flip Katze next, F3 again same combination.
should we get to f3 that is
flipping cape first and they are town basically means you have to flip katze next anyways. Flipping Katze town does not necessarily mean you have to flip cape next, but likely it does.
the tldr of what i wanted to say was
yeah i wrote a post reasoninng around those exact same "if"s
but when it comes to Raskol
It's saturday, he's a euro, its 5am rn and before that day was pretty much dead.Don't make activity reads tbh.
I also think it's interesting that you guys are presenting rask as a f3 candidate because in my head hes just been the most logical nk last night even but definitely tonight. Sleep i feel is less locked in than rask, but maybe thats just me being too nice? i dont really want to bother with rask until f3 anyway, there are just too many in the poe and too few clears, and rask is one of those
and like, rask was katzes first lock so he shouldnt be alive in like, many worlds. If cuth dies twon though rask should DEIFNITELY be the nk unless im missings omeontinhg
like if im going to go with my interpretation of gamestate and try to mash everyonees thoguths together this would be the list
top town
rask
sleep
hk
dobby
katze
cape/cuth
top scum
and i was taking for granted that was the order people would get yoinked in but maybe im higher on that list than i gave myself cred for idk.
and i definitely wouldnt put BOTH rask and sleep in the f3 lol? that assumes you and me are the coming 2 night kills? i mean, with my amount of posting despite having a "relaxed" apporach to the game sure but i kinda look forward to being in my first f3 as town so yeah kinda torn lol.
flipping cape first and they are town basically means you have to flip katze next anyways. Flipping Katze town does not necessarily mean you have to flip cape next, but likely it does.
true i prolly outdumbed myself with the reasoning around that
if katzes dies and is town we're in a situation where either we kill Cuth (that was scumread by dead benneh and rask) OR cape (which was katzes pet read) and we wouldnt have much to go on other than katze actually being town and believing in her reads, which benneh also did, so yeah no fun situation
yeah thats correct
benneh prob died over rask because benneh was actually playing the game
rask isn't mafia with monstr
if rask is alive in f3 you're allowed to tinfoil it but never before that
yeah please dont let me be the one in F3 for the love of god
id rather get MLed than in that F3 and if you know me you know how much i hate being MLed
vote: katze
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/641331542047850518/970164206462717962/unknown.png
wuv u
benneh prob died over rask because benneh was actually playing the game
rask isn't mafia with monstr
if rask is alive in f3 you're allowed to tinfoil it but never before that
i feel like rask has been coming in and when he plays he plays a lot? maybe that was just my impressions for being around when he was active yesterday but not sure id say hes inavctive. benneh kinda was inactive yesterday otoh, felt like he was just waiting for yoink to happen, pushed cuth a little but rask was the one PUSHING cuth
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/641331542047850518/970164206462717962/unknown.png
wuv u
i mean
either i'll wake up and get a wim boost from the threat of being MLed or ill stand by this as the optimal vote for my sanity
until then #selfvoteandAtE
rask has more posts than hk apparently :wowee:
also please read that cuth game or just skim it and tell me its tonally different lol
i feel like rask has been coming in and when he plays he plays a lot? maybe that was just my impressions for being around when he was active yesterday but not sure id say hes inavctive. benneh kinda was inactive yesterday otoh, felt like he was just waiting for yoink to happen, pushed cuth a little but rask was the one PUSHING cuth
raskol has more posts than benneh apparently so i guess im just a dummy
rask has more posts than hk apparently :wowee:
also please read that cuth game or just skim it and tell me its tonally different lol
i mean im well aware that cuth is a really good wolf but
...fine ill skim it
i mean
either i'll wake up and get a wim boost from the threat of being MLed or ill stand by this as the optimal vote for my sanity
until then #selfvoteandAtE
you didnt say anything about my photo editing skills
i wanted to do that thing where you like, make the centre of the face bigger and the outside smoler to increase the effect of whatever you have going on in your pfp but this was the best i could do
okay i really need to sleep ints 530
you didnt say anything about my photo editing skills
i wanted to do that thing where you like, make the centre of the face bigger and the outside smoler to increase the effect of whatever you have going on in your pfp but this was the best i could do
okay i really need to sleep ints 530
oh is that what u were trying to do
i couldnt figure it out but that makes sense
gn dobby ill skim this and then probably stop thinking about mafia until tomorrow myself wowee
oh is that what u were trying to do
i couldnt figure it out but that makes sense
gn dobby ill skim this and then probably stop thinking about mafia until tomorrow myself wowee
gngn dont feel the need to skim it tonight its just got cool stuf, he initiated a cw on to his teammate with 3 mins to eod d1, and then just.. yeah. won :P
first impression is that cuth types like me and i've noticed it before but i feel like it's... more katzey that game than normal?
i cant tell if thats a 2020 cuth thing or a w!cuth thing and its a feeling i don't really think makes any sense to anyone but me (i opened the SK game and i feel like it's less that so it might just be a 2020 cuth thing? idk)
also wow reading cuth posts is like. an experience. i feel like he could flat out lie to my face and i'd just nod and tell him to keep talking (this isnt an alignment read and i understand it sounds like one but its just the way he talks is unique)
and yeah some of these posts are really villagery
glancing at his posts this game id say he's townier in the slep game tbh
benneh
ender
katze
sunbae
monstr
cape
hk but this read is from early d1
newc
roro
sleep
zack
ladd
csargo
monty
winston
rask
and if you're saying to yourself "gee four orgers on the bottom of that list" guess what i've been saying to myself for the last like 24 hours too
alphabetical within tiers as always
this list is kinda sticking with me
gth it doesnt come from a place with TMI but like
exactly the center is still alive and if he's a wolf then the bottom of his list is still all villagers + ladd so meh
probably can't ride the "too wack to be a wolf" when it's still effective at agenda just in a roundabout way
gngn dont feel the need to skim it tonight its just got cool stuf, he initiated a cw on to his teammate with 3 mins to eod d1, and then just.. yeah. won :P
i didnt read it all i just turbo read d1
gonna reread eod1 of this game as well and figure out how much this holds
okay i don't have the brain space to focus tonight tomorrow i will no life it up
take monty off the list imo
give me a reason
i thought the tinfoil he had about visor posting a votecount right after you voted ladd was villagery and it's a peak "look, here's whats going to happen" vote
pretty elite eod1 by me imo
anyway flexing aside uhh
i forgot how much of an... interaction ender/cuth have at EoD1. it's kinda weird.
I don't mind this if Newcomb is off the table.
I do not feel like their reads feel entirely legit. Especially the way they've treated me.
what, trying to get you to either come up with better reasons for w-reads or stop w-reading the people you were for the reasons you were
which was a cover for trying to get you to contradict yourself despite my never placing suspicion on you and then being like oops haha he noticed and pretty firmly v-reading you ever since?
like i'll own that it might not have been the funnest experience and i'm sorry if it was unpleasant but
I disliked the questions but that doesn't create the centre of my main dislike with you.
Tbh, it might be petty, but the way you just straight up ignored my case but apparently lock me town rustles my jimmies something fierce.
Like, even if you 100% disagree with it, you don't even engage to say "I think that's an uncharitable take"? You don't try and work with one of your "lock" townreads when you think they're barking the fuck up the wrong tree?
Talk to me about why me potentially confbiasing myself into trying to lead on someone who is generally a good town player when they rand town and don't die is something you're okay with if you're town and you think we both are?
(theres a bit more but multiquote keeps breaking on me)
anyway im thinking. my impression of cuth at eod1 in slep is "look good after radishes flips", i don't think he expected radishes to go over? around the time mac votes radishes is probably when wolves realized he was dying
in this eod1 you have w!ender basically doing nothing but screaming "kill newcomb kill newcomb" and also kinda interacting with cuth and kinda advocating a cuth wagon for a bit before dropping that. could easily see that bit as w/w given the part where he drops it and goes back to pushing newcomb
as an aside to talking about cuth, me realizing just how much of enders EoD1 is anti-newcomb makes me think that he was just trying to piggy back off of newcomb pressure to kill him sooner rather than later, so im kinda thinking that this is another point in sleeps favor since sleep/me were the other main anti-newcomb forces at eod1
cuths eod1 is... less narrow tho. idk. i don't reaaalllllly feel like cuth is trying to look good off of ladd flipping but his first few posts of D2 make me squint a bit
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829496&viewfull=1#post2053829496
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829499&viewfull=1#post2053829499
idk. could be a bit too on the nose?
think ill read more tomorrow im mafiaed out today
another thought i had is that cuth/ender had directly opposing agendas at EoD1 but if i assume the last wolf had a similar agenda the last wolf would be me or sleep, so i gues that small aside is a coin that flips both ways
shrug
y'all gonna make me agree to hardclear dobby and stick cuth into the 3 man PoE arent ya
monty if you think i bus there i have no words for you lol
yeah kat this post is like literally one that stands out for me as, you expressed it better, too on the nose whych is why i had the tone read thingie
im gonna just go back and read whatever benneh had on cuth and see if it makes sense for me too
bt prop 1 is cape i think
yes i havent slept yet sue me
hollowkatt
05-01-2022, 05:33
benneh prob died over rask because benneh was actually playing the game
rask isn't mafia with monstr
if rask is alive in f3 you're allowed to tinfoil it but never before that
u can't tell me what to do ur not my mom
pretty elite eod1 by me imo
anyway flexing aside uhh
i forgot how much of an... interaction ender/cuth have at EoD1. it's kinda weird.
(theres a bit more but multiquote keeps breaking on me)
anyway im thinking. my impression of cuth at eod1 in slep is "look good after radishes flips", i don't think he expected radishes to go over? around the time mac votes radishes is probably when wolves realized he was dying
in this eod1 you have w!ender basically doing nothing but screaming "kill newcomb kill newcomb" and also kinda interacting with cuth and kinda advocating a cuth wagon for a bit before dropping that. could easily see that bit as w/w given the part where he drops it and goes back to pushing newcomb
cuths eod1 is... less narrow tho. idk. i don't reaaalllllly feel like cuth is trying to look good off of ladd flipping but his first few posts of D2 make me squint a bit
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829496&viewfull=1#post2053829496
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829499&viewfull=1#post2053829499
idk. could be a bit too on the nose?
think ill read more tomorrow im mafiaed out today
also this post from you is really good and kind of what ive felt id want to see from you but its also again the thing with expectations etc etc
uh
yeah
fuck why did one post make me reconsider my worldview
hollowkatt
05-01-2022, 05:34
the tldr of what i wanted to say was
yeah i wrote a post reasoninng around those exact same "if"s
but when it comes to Raskol
It's saturday, he's a euro, its 5am rn and before that day was pretty much dead.Don't make activity reads tbh.
I also think it's interesting that you guys are presenting rask as a f3 candidate because in my head hes just been the most logical nk last night even but definitely tonight. Sleep i feel is less locked in than rask, but maybe thats just me being too nice? i dont really want to bother with rask until f3 anyway, there are just too many in the poe and too few clears, and rask is one of those
and like, rask was katzes first lock so he shouldnt be alive in like, many worlds. If cuth dies twon though rask should DEIFNITELY be the nk unless im missings omeontinhg
like if im going to go with my interpretation of gamestate and try to mash everyonees thoguths together this would be the list
top town
rask
sleep
hk
dobby
katze
cape/cuth
top scum
and i was taking for granted that was the order people would get yoinked in but maybe im higher on that list than i gave myself cred for idk.
and i definitely wouldnt put BOTH rask and sleep in the f3 lol? that assumes you and me are the coming 2 night kills? i mean, with my amount of posting despite having a "relaxed" apporach to the game sure but i kinda look forward to being in my first f3 as town so yeah kinda torn lol.
true i prolly outdumbed myself with the reasoning around that
if katzes dies and is town we're in a situation where either we kill Cuth (that was scumread by dead benneh and rask) OR cape (which was katzes pet read) and we wouldnt have much to go on other than katze actually being town and believing in her reads, which benneh also did, so yeah no fun situation
yeah thats correct
yeah I'm assuming Rask isn't a NK. I think you've been obvs town and should die vv soon. I think I either die or am the patsy in F3. Cuth can make F3 if he's not chopped, so can sleep. I can see a sleep NK but I think you go first.
hollowkatt
05-01-2022, 05:35
vote: katze
vote: katze
always, and I mean always, oblige the self-voter.
hollowkatt
05-01-2022, 05:36
i feel like rask has been coming in and when he plays he plays a lot? maybe that was just my impressions for being around when he was active yesterday but not sure id say hes inavctive. benneh kinda was inactive yesterday otoh, felt like he was just waiting for yoink to happen, pushed cuth a little but rask was the one PUSHING cuth
yeah, when rask is here he's playing. I know he's Lichtenstein, I know it's early early morning. I mostly am talking about him b/c I want him here to bounce thoughts off of.... and to press him on his read of me.
hollowkatt
05-01-2022, 05:38
this list is kinda sticking with me
gth it doesnt come from a place with TMI but like
exactly the center is still alive and if he's a wolf then the bottom of his list is still all villagers + ladd so meh
probably can't ride the "too wack to be a wolf" when it's still effective at agenda just in a roundabout way
it has the proper "I am the middle of the road wolf" wolf placement doesn't it.
meh
hollowkatt
05-01-2022, 05:40
I am having a bed time. I'll try to check in early in the morning but most likely won't be back till about 2ish hours before EOD. I leave home 8 hours before, it's a 2 hour drive, then 2 hours there, then 2 hours back home. Cutting it close but at least I don't have to make dinner tomorrow.
I don't think meta is ever going to be a way to clear me and I really mean it. I genuinely can't tel you what would be clearing for me in any game in isolation except for that I just fight it with my everything and sometimes get there sometimes not.
And i think the issue this game atp is that the last wolf is in katze/cape/cuth and we can kill 2 but the third is in f3 which is an issue
And the way you're approach this point of the game as well as some bits honestly makes me consider you over the others. Youre like slowly planting seeds to include more ppl in the poe and the way you're approaching a cuth yeet and saying you have tinfoil or whatever to like stall until th point where you're in a probable f3 is just, good wolfplay and enables you to win at that stage. It's kinda how one would have to play it as wolf at this stage and you're doing exactly that so if I go with gut i 100% vote you. I don't think I'll vote cape today at all. Might go cuth but I want rask to post some as well but idk how much that'd affect my vote tbqh
And like, whenever I try to present a read or thoughts recently you've kinda shut it down pretty resolutely which makes it tougher to just actively share stuff and make cases and that's just also not towny at all.
Main issue is that it's still a super busy weekend for me, good thing nobody is posting I guess, but not really.
I'm just gonna do what I believe in for now vote: katze
If it's 2 out of 3 it's prolly katze cuth in some order for me
I really don't know why you don't go me, like I really wanted to do something more today but I have actually been a bit out and about today. It's kinda gonna be mobile all day tomorrow so playing with that restrictions is gonna be fun. Me going over is no biggie to me since I really don't know if I'm on the right path as wolf is obviously pretty hidden here. Like it wasn't Mont and I had a feeling it was not but nobody was really budging. If mafia is Rask that might explain why monster expressed frustration over them in the thread but then we all just decide to give this a pass and call Rask town so like, whatever
the fact you're (or anyone) clearing cape over cuth is legitimately baffling to me and the fact that he's my top wolfread and your trajectory is "take cape to f3" is imo awful
It's kinda depressing that I agree with this and that I have took this game more chill then others and can very easily obvtown sometimes, but I also thrive in places easy to navigate. ISOs only work for like 120? Posts
I'm trying to figure out what content actually flatters me this game and legitimately I struggle with this. I'm not locked on the katze vote. I think they might be village tunneling me since I've been underwhelming as shit. Thing is I just don't get Dobby trying to keep me alive here are they wolf? They want an easy final 3? There are a lot of tinfoils in my head right now and I don't feel like solving them as bad as that sounds because I'm mostly just stumped.
trying to bring my brain back into the game without context at that katze post feels tonally scummy which is a dumb way to analyze a wallpost but w/e
I find your comment on the wall post thing to be interesting, like do you find all wall posts to come off as scummy? I don't think that is true as your wall post felt like 100% town to me. Granted katze's wallposts today have given mixed signals to me.
2 more dumb thoughts on why benneh died over raskolnikov
rask pushed cuth super hard, benneh pushed cuth pretty hard
there wasa little tinfoil on benneh expressed (or maybe just from me) in thread so that couldve potentially been taken advantage of by wolf
rask not dying could be because the woof wants cuth to keep being hard pushed by someone (although benneh did it too he wasnt as passionate about it as rask was)
and theres also the viewpoint where, if rask does die, reading into "why did rask die over benneh" would be 500 red fat arrows pointing at cuth
but that could also be done to get a free kill on cuth
but having cuth in f3 is a cool thing for wolves if cuth is town because ending the game without cuth dying is like... kinda lol
and yes to clarify my issue with today because i dont think i have worded it out (im bolding because i think reading this post will be awful if anyone even tries it and this might improve readability but i think i have actually good thoughts here)
READ THIS PART IF UR GONNA READ ANYTHING pls
I was very set on Cuth or Katze yoink for today, and Katze is hard shielding Cuth now. Meaning if I'm going to trust Katze as town or potential town, I need to find someone outside of those two. That'd probably be Cape. But katze and Cuth feel way higher on my priority list. And it's a perfect scenario for wolf katze to try and get to endstages of the game with. It's not as beneficial for anyone else.
So if Katze is actually town, the Cuth read is real. If Cuth is town, Katzes read on Cuth could be fake, but Katze can also go back to saying "I was wrong sorry" and it won't get us any closer to solving Katze, and then we either yoink katze or we go someone else and BAM f3 where anything can happen.
So like, any logical thoughts i might have just tell me Katze is the best yeet, but looking at the above, another yoink chain that doesn't make the game impossible COULD be Cape -> Katze and then f3 with Cuth +2 (probably HK and me or Sleep unless someone wants to keep the rask tinfoil alive)
That would mean we leave Cuth til f3. But if Cape is town, we HAVE to kill katze after for any of it to make sense according to the above, and uh, sure that is fine but awful to drag the game out
that was more than 2 thoughts
1) I literally have also defended Cuth, same day too.
2) I don't really super follow this given that fact
this game is annoying because if i were mafia my path to victory would be shutting up and letting you kill cuth today and im being scumread for it and i kind of want to say "fuck it just kill cuth" but if i do that then i feel like i'd get scumread even more for it
yes this is a self conscious post
I am way easier to push today then Cuth, there is no reason for scum!you not to go me
I'm trying to figure out what content actually flatters me this game and legitimately I struggle with this. I'm not locked on the katze vote. I think they might be village tunneling me since I've been underwhelming as shit. Thing is I just don't get Dobby trying to keep me alive here are they wolf? They want an easy final 3? There are a lot of tinfoils in my head right now and I don't feel like solving them as bad as that sounds because I'm mostly just stumped.
Im voting you right now lol
And i can see jagzes sus eon u makes sense in some ways
Both you and kat want to die though so rats sasd
In one way letting it get to f3 is easier tbh
Gnb for real now
Sure, I can talk about that for a while.
I've been town reading katze for most of the game and do think the meta read that I dropped is still pretty valid. But in the interest of doing my due diligence I went back through the votes in the run-up to EOD1.
D1 is the only day when a wolf really got wagoned, pressured, and then eliminated. The D2 wolf was a bomb and the D3 wolf was from a bomb as well. So D1 is really the best associatives day that we have available to us. It's also the day when the most groundwork is being laid and people have, generally speaking, the flimsiest reasons for reads just because there's less to work with.
That being said the large post you quoted (fuck this site for multiquotes btw) clearly starts out with a "what if" situation. I wrote that post assuming everyone on the Ladd wagon was pure, and worked the game from that angle, which lead me to Cape/Katze as the last people where the wolf could be hiding.
I cleared Monte and Cuth by virtue of how they arrived at the Ladd wagon, where they were before hand, and thinking about why/how a partner would bus their valuable PR (yes I think even N3 sorcerer has value) compared to any of the goons (monstr tbh would have been a great bus target there).
Then when I was doing my re-read of D1 looking at what Ladd had posted I came across the post where Ladd tells Katze to run EOD and wondered how that spewed Katze. I concluded that it could be a bad look.
After removing the Ladd wagon from possible wolf-pack members it was down to me, you, neb, katze, cape. Obvs I remove myself. Neb was obvs town. I got to a town read on you when we were talking during D2 when you were pushing me. You weren't posting like you knew my alignment so I went with the assumption that you were legit solving me, not pushing me to get a mischop.
That would literally leave Katze and Cape and that I could find reasons to town read both of them.
Katze via meta in terms of their wolf game being holistically different than what I've seen here, and Cape b/c he does have some good thoughts and good posts.
I decided to try voting Katze to see what anyone else would say or think about that, whether or not it would start a wagon or if I would get push back. Unfortunately that post was largely ignored until you brought it up now.
When I didn't get any traction on Katze I decided that maybe I was seeing things that aren't there, and that maybe clearing the entire ladd wagon wasn't a smart idea, so I went back eventually to monte for the chop. Do regret that chop.
Anyways, I want to believe in my meta read on katze and I want to believe they're playing in a way that makes it very hard for katze wolf to win.
I want to believe in my read on Cape where he functionally vanishes when he's not being pressured or suspected and only pops back up to really get involved when he's carrying a few votes.
I just want to address I haven't done this consciously and I think day 2 was my most active day and I was not getting pressured.
Also I wanna point out the red herring here. Wouldn't the behavior of me vanishing thread and popping back up only when I have pressure on me be very scum indicative?
to bolded specifically: i felt strongly that the wolf was in cape/monte and said as such, i emphasized that i thought your play around then was very villagery to me
and yeah i GET that w!me would be happy to bring a tinfoiled v!cuth to f3 but i think (thought? probably doesnt even apply that much anymore due to the sheer amount of tinfoil there, in my eyes w!me would always kill him before f3 tho) he'd prob just get NKed before F3 anyway
im p sure cape wasnt around during EoD?
I was in a dead zone that EoD
Just wanted to also say in regards to the benneh kill, they could have just killed them over Rask since 1) Benneh just about as widely townread as Rask 2) benneh more active then Rask as Rask would only have bursts in activity at a given time.
Unvote: katze
If this is actually scum I swear.
Page 97 is the towniest thing I have seen in a hot minute
this list is kinda sticking with me
gth it doesnt come from a place with TMI but like
exactly the center is still alive and if he's a wolf then the bottom of his list is still all villagers + ladd so meh
probably can't ride the "too wack to be a wolf" when it's still effective at agenda just in a roundabout way
Like I think this is also a legitimately good analysis on Cuth's read list and this just makes me unsure of where to go. I'm gonna revisit something ;)
Okay you know. From the preview of Rask's posts that I have been seeing, NGL kinda pocketed by the aggressive nature of the posts
Dobby: "to be clear im not defending cuth (anymore) but thats mainly or only because or bennehs case and 0% because of rasks stuff, if anything rasks stuff make me feel better about cuth being town"
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/image.php?u=1388&dateline=1644229047
I have literally no idea what this is supposed to mean. 🤣
Beside, it's not the same thing. I am definatly trying to explain why he is/could be a wolf. He was voting me out D1 without much of a reason (outside sussing and parking Ender for a good chunck of the day. u can look for my posts about Ender fwiw. I know it's pain since we can ISO only the most recent 100 posts but hey, u can still do it).
He was voting me out because he thought I was wrong (yeah he said I was looking opportunisticly looking for a towny ML... when I had barely posted D1 because I had friendos that week end at home). That's not evaluating my alignment.
Beside, from where this confidence comes from (that I am misreading villagers and going for ML)? Look again his post to Ender saying he is town for raisins despite his crap reads, and compare his treatment of Ender's slot, compared to mine (I quoted it in the last couple of pages). Look again why he turnarounded finally saying "Rask is fine"... etc
Is it really the same thing? I don't think so.
I feel like this context is important for what I am about to read and probably not fully digest
Im voting you right now lol
And i can see jagzes sus eon u makes sense in some ways
Both you and kat want to die though so rats sasd
In one way letting it get to f3 is easier tbh
Gnb for real now
Yeah I saw that later on as I was slowly reading more
dont you mean kill cuth -> kill katze?
Dobby you said this earlier, what made you reconsider?
I hate this game tbh: because of Benneh's post, I am rereading EOD1 to check cuth's positionning, and I read Dobby's readlist gut clearing all flipped scums.
"monstrbro - town."
"EnderWiggin - I've had some big doubts on this slot because a lot of thought patterns have felt feigned (i translated the word from swedish sorry if its a dumb word that doesnt make sense) but the more i think about it i feel like it's probably just from a town mindset and if i go with gut this is just town yes."
"Ladd - I've been flipflopping on ladd, this post just had way more than id expect at that point, but maybe its just the ladd way of pumping out reads and then tweaking. His later posts just feel like they have the enthusiasm and "fire" that town ladd has, especially the more (for ladd) wordy ones, it's also a bit relaxed which is nice to see. Gut says town."
anyone has meta on wolf!Dobby? (don't say 1610 pls)
back to reading cuth's EOD :coffee:
I'm just wondering who would actually make this list as mafia LOL
This post comes after what could be read as TMI reads on Newcomb and Cape.
But rn I am not seeing how Cuth goes from soft defending goon!Ender to bus sorcerer!Ladd.
...
Nah actually I see how he could have (w!Cuth sees that 1. Monstr is about to get banned and is LHF that isn't endgaming anyway 2. sees that Ender is not ending game too re the amount of heat he got D1 3. panicks at EOD when he sees the CFD on Ladd and thinks bussing hard here is the only path to victory). A possibility to me rn, nothing definitive though.
Moving on. :anothercoffee:
I think if I was Cuth at this moment and posted that, I would have voted Wiggin...
COntext
Compare this:
to this:
last post feels like a preemptive back up reasonning to vote me out (with unfakable in-depht thinking lmao) because he may have felt something ugly could happen to him. dunno
moving on (rn I am still at Monty > above them all fwiw. I am just trying to see if "Cuth is a wolf" is an idea that matches what happened at EOD1, because I had the thought too N1 and Benneh's post was convincing. might as well test it because I don't want us to railroad Monty being lazy)
But like, wouldn't preemptive reasoning that's unfakable, in depth thinking be... You know... Unfakable? Can mafia not fake stuff? If you are mafia there, you are clearly disingenuous with your reads, therefore you can never really fully believe them right?
I secretly hope Cuth is town tbh (I parked on Ender before going Cuth > ladd D1), because otherwise my LHF status will take a serious hit and I will have to shorten my posts and slack even harder as town. which is out of my range tbh. (u can switch Cuth for Monty, it works too)
apologies for this post btw. (I just had an ego pooping watching at the D1 VCs)
Okay those are kinda towny votes even if Cuth is town.
oh i forgot about this post
i have a hard time reading monstr because his playstyle as a wolf is self-aware in a way distinct from a lot of people, and it's not just like being able to post like a villager would but genuinely intuitively generating stuff that he would think as a villager by maintaining a sort of self-aware distance while wolfing
meaning his wolf posts have a villagery flavor to them that is stronger than a lot of peoples' and it's similar enough to mine that i have a hard time ever trusting how i read it
This post man...
This looks w/w tbh
ok that's
weird
but alright
20 seconds because there's the post cooldown and he voted and then voted someone else within that window before you posted
This feels oddly, I don't know how to put it, picky
Benneh saying I should go to final 3, like I kinda just don't get why I am just flat out town to some of y'all.
Rask really making me think it could be Cuth but I think Cuth has also things that don't look TMI.
Sleep also mentioned this thing about spending like 5 months or something looking at Cuth's wolf meta or something? That literally gone nowhere, they didn't comment on it since and I would like to knowze why and could they elaborate.
Getting tired soz, be here probs mobiling tomorrow
Cuthillius
05-01-2022, 08:04
i completely forgot this game existed oops
Cuthillius
05-01-2022, 08:12
weh
whatever im not shielding cuth anymore
this isn't worth my sanity
go fucking wild i still think he's a villager
huh
Cuthillius
05-01-2022, 08:14
He plays so fuckin well (sorry cuth i know you dont like it when i give you compliments) and i feel like it's that kind of wolf performance that everyone should have in mind always
you ALSO play so heckin well
Cuthillius
05-01-2022, 08:16
first impression is that cuth types like me and i've noticed it before but i feel like it's... more katzey that game than normal?
a) this post made me smile the rest of it not this quote specifically
b) wolf claim???
Cuthillius
05-01-2022, 08:26
anyway im thinking. my impression of cuth at eod1 in slep is "look good after radishes flips", i don't think he expected radishes to go over? around the time mac votes radishes is probably when wolves realized he was dying
nah i basically signed radish's death warrant there
stuff had been shifting in his direction for a while and i knew i needed to bus exactly there to have any chance of wolves winning the game
there were like seven villagers that were pretty much clear just by posting d1
it was not conducive to wolves winning
i wasn't like guaranteed radishes will die but it was clear he wasn't going to last and it was clear mac wasn't going to last at that point either and i felt like given a cop i had to do that there to just make it possible to endgame period given threadstate
Cuthillius
05-01-2022, 08:27
it has the proper "I am the middle of the road wolf" wolf placement doesn't it.
meh
i am staring at this post
what does this post mean
Cuthillius
05-01-2022, 08:29
i desperately need to sleep and have stuff i need to do
but i will make time for this game tomorrow i promise that
also if the wolf wins by bringing specifically me and gira to f3 i will just laugh
that is all i will do
huh
Why does this post in particular confuse you? It seems like a straight forward thing right?
Cuthillius
05-01-2022, 09:50
heck
i posted some great gifs in that game
Cuthillius
05-01-2022, 09:51
Why does this post in particular confuse you? It seems like a straight forward thing right?
i'll talk about it tomorrow!
Hekllo its past 5pm and i just woke up fml
Dobby you said this earlier, what made you reconsider?
that was referring to the poe he had presented, where he wanted cuth dead first but in his post wrote kat first then cuth
I'm sorry you had to endure my posts last night, theyre mostly incomprehensible lumps of badly spelled words and i should be ashamed of myself
guests were supposed to show up 10 mins ago but that means i prolly have an hour, ill do some Stuff til then
I just read through rask's stuff on cuth and i think most of it still is very confbiasy but there are some posts from the pbp idontlikecuth thing that do stand out a little for me, a few examples
oh i forgot about this post
i have a hard time reading monstr because his playstyle as a wolf is self-aware in a way distinct from a lot of people, and it's not just like being able to post like a villager would but genuinely intuitively generating stuff that he would think as a villager by maintaining a sort of self-aware distance while wolfing
meaning his wolf posts have a villagery flavor to them that is stronger than a lot of peoples' and it's similar enough to mine that i have a hard time ever trusting how i read it
ok so you are not poundering my alignment here. cool stuff. (because that's basically what you are doing here, you don't try to figure it out. why is me disagreeing with you about 3 specific slots makes me a wolf?)
it's not, i don't really have that much of a read on you
i'm voting you because i have an idea of who villagers are in this game and no real leads in any way on who the wolves are and so i'm voting people who aren't villagery and who are trying to kill villagers
that doesn't mean that your posts are wolfy it just means they're not villagery and you're trying to kill people i think are villagers and also in what could be an opportunistic way
it's kinda sad that both katze and benneh are voting me
that gets me down a bit
in terms of how i'm playing this game
i would be tempted to vote ladd but i think winston voting ladd just from the game perspective more broadly is vaguely wack and it makes me feel less great about it
rask is fine
otherwise csargo monty really just feel like uninteresting
i think if i had another hour i might feel good about going hk but right now i have a hard time i need to spend more time and there isn't more time
a lot of it is rambly in cuth's own charming way but if you stop to focus it kinda makes sense coming from cuth, idk how much previous experience you have with eachother but that might be why i dont react as heavily on cuth's posts. These ones all do kinda look sussy in thir own way and prolly some more i just didnt care to include
BUT, and again, this one is just a lot more concentrated and makes sense (sorry rask your work was gr8 too but benneh put it in one post)
K I?ve sorted it out
were gonna yeet Monty today and he?ll flip v
im gonna die and you?re gonna lunch cuth to win the game
Read cuth and ender at eod. Read cuths position as a wagon during that discussion. Wolves thought he was going over. Ender found reasons to suspect cuth while sticking around trying to lunch newcomb and build that wagon as a counter. He then weakly clears cuth for a boring post. Props to Monty for deducing that post meant nothing
ladd goes from a 5th option that cuth wouldn?t kill to a 2nd vote on Ladd when it seems the wagons are going to tip back to cuth or cfd onto newc, rask, or some other lhf. Worst case cuth lands on Ladd in a 4 way rand.
ladd literally catches fire with votes from sleep and Monty with literally no time on the clock. Theres no time to react and no real way this could have been predicted. But why would cuth go against his word when other wagons he WOULD lunch and DOES wolf read more than Ladd ? Why does ender clear cuth over a NAI post? Cuth wagon disintegrates at that point and ender needs a way to decommit from voting there if newc doesn?t catch on.
I?ll bet my entire deck mafia card collection on this. Cuth is mafia
i know my solving rn is "what have others written" but shrugze im doing what i can with the time i have to do it
there's basically zero upside if newc flips v
given the way basically everyone's handled him
vote: ladd
I kinda wanna kill your info yeet approach tbh
dont kill sleep
maybe kill newcomb??? idk fuck
probably dont kill csargo
dont kill hollowkatt what the fuck why is he a wagon
dont kill rask
Players Votes
Newcomb 2 (Enderwiggin, Sleep)
Csargo 2 (Cape90, hollowkatt)
hollowkatt 2 (Dobby, Csargo)
Raskolnikov 2 (Monstrdude, Montmorency)
ladd 2 (Winston Hughes, Cuthillius)
Sleep 2 (ladd, Newcomb)
Cuthillius 1 (Raskolnikov)
Montmorency 1 (Sunbae)
Enderwiggin 1 (zack)
1118
vote: Newcomb
fingers crossed but i do not like any other wagon at all really
Like, ladd got 3 votes at :00 by sleep, monty and rask
cuth placed vote nr 2 on ladd when it looked like he really wouldnt go down, at :58.
I mean i did a vca on monty mostly looking at the unvote but i shouldve focused on the timing of his vote, and i was wrong. but this cuth vote placement is like, similar to the MR vote in the game i linked in so many ways, its almost eerie. Basically cuth said it in his own words better than i could ahve
nah i basically signed radish's death warrant there
stuff had been shifting in his direction for a while and i knew i needed to bus exactly there to have any chance of wolves winning the game
there were like seven villagers that were pretty much clear just by posting d1
it was not conducive to wolves winning
i wasn't like guaranteed radishes will die but it was clear he wasn't going to last and it was clear mac wasn't going to last at that point either and i felt like given a cop i had to do that there to just make it possible to endgame period given threadstate
like, yeah, cuth makes sense
feel like d2 d3 votes are close to meaningless maybe imma have a look
Players Votes
Montmorency 3 (Newcomb, zack, Raskolnikov)
Cape90 3 (nebjiamn, Sleep, EnderWiggin)
Newcomb 2 (Montmorency, Cape90)
EnderWiggin 1 (Dobby)
Cuthillius 1 (hollowkatt)
katze 1 (Cuthillius)
2098
2113
Players Votes
Montmorency 4 (Newcomb, zack, Raskolnikov, Cape90)
Cape90 3 (nebjiamn, Sleep, EnderWiggin)
Newcomb 2 (Montmorency, katze)
EnderWiggin 1 (Dobby)
Cuthillius 1 (hollowkatt)
katze 1 (Cuthillius)
Players Votes
Newcomb 4 (Montmorency, hollowkatt, katze, Cape90)
Montmorency 3 (Newcomb, zack, Raskolnikov)
Cape90 3 (nebjiamn, Sleep, EnderWiggin)
EnderWiggin 2 (Dobby, Sunbae)
katze 1 (Cuthillius)
tally correct, ordering isnt (i, dobby fixed it)
Players Votes
Newcomb 4 (Montmorency, katze, Cape90, hollowkatt)
Montmorency 3 (Newcomb, zack, Raskolnikov)
Cape90 3 (nebjiamn, Sleep, EnderWiggin)
EnderWiggin 2 (Dobby, Sunbae)
katze 1 (Cuthillius)
I believe this is the correct tally.
10 minutes for corrections.
i kinda hate that those are the names on newcomb wagon
id say maybe its a good look for cuth that he wasnt on any of the main wagons but he wasnt there during the eod, and vanity wagon easy way to avoid the spotlight
if it needs saying sleep is town, there's no way two wolves vote cape here for no reason when there's nothing at stake (im usually wrong when im confident about something)
cape vote is self pres onto monty and then changes vote to newcomb to make him top wagon. i think from a t!cape perspective it makes sense that he has two counterwagons to himself and he selfpresses onto whoever he thinks is more likely scum?
hollowkatts voting pattern here is nai, rask is locked onto monty shrug not meaningful
i think monstr might be in the category of people who approach mafia in a similar enough way to me as wolves in particular that i have a hard time actually figuring him out
i don't know who else is in that category off the top of my head but monstr is that's for sure
oh i thought you'd have something spicy
that explains the bubbling scumread I had on both of you. Thanks for telling me you two aren't w/w
kekw whos most sus off of this, sleep, cape or cuth?
kekw whos most sus off of this, sleep, cape or cuth?
wait no the sleep post was in response to a cuth post about zack
the cape post was in response to that post about monstr though
i do agree that monstr/i have a lot of partner equity e t c
god for cuth i want to call this wofly
katze treatement of newcomb this game is pretty much a carbon copy of how he treated me as v/v in the poisoner invitational 21er afair
except he gave me d1 freepass (and i did get n1ed)
and i dont really think they'd play like this as a wolf
mh
I'm hoping that if I said 0-1 in [Sleep, Zack, HK, Neb, Newc, Cuth] I'd be correct
why cuth?
Because I don't think Cuth/Monstr work together
i'm very comfortable with calling cape strong v at this point and just making sure to look back in a day or two
i will prob be around even less tomorrow
villas
newcomb
zack
benneh
katze
sleep
HK
mont
ladd
cape
:clown:
what does it mean that neither ender nor monstrbo are in this list. katze and cape are, cuth isnt. I feel like... you dont write a list like this and dont include at least one teammate since all three have been active? cape/katze that is?
vote: monster
some time tonight I'm gonna put together a reads list. I think monster belongs at the bottom of it.
good look for hk atthis point in the game
Because last time I entered a game and had a visceral bad reaction to Cape's posts and called him wolf all game he flipped green so I'm trying something new =P
mmmmmh i dont like this for cape at all
It's not "never interact with people you wolfread you," that would be silly. It's that I don't find it productive to talk to people who wolfread me, or people I wolfread, about that read.
Like what actual good do you think it's gonna do to try to argue about this specific issue if we happen to be v/v? It would be like that meme of spider man pointing at himself.
My wolfread on you is based on a) me noticing that you were talking about me in a way that looked performative vs. having a specific read or one that seemed inquisitive. I.e. just kind of waving your hand around and going "hey guys newcomb looks wolfy" type posts. And then b) me being generally on the lookout for a wolf to try this kind of thing with me - poking at/around me specifically to get townread. Your treatment of me matched both my loose range of people who might try this, and the lack of depth in the approach to it matched my conception of the commitment someone might have to that kind of play D1.
The problem is, what are you going to say to that that's going to be productive in addressing that? "Nah bro that's not what I'd do as a wolf."? We're not arguing about the base facts of what you did, we'd be arguing about subjective interpretations about it, and what use would that be? You're biased.
And you could pretty much flip everything I just said around for you wolfreading me.
If you want my read on you to evolve and change, just play the game, show me you're invested in it, show me your thought process. If you want to find common ground with me specifically, talk to me about literally anything other than your alignment or mine.
Here, I'll start: right now what I'm considering a pivot point this game is cape vs. sleep. Going through the possible worlds where they're v/v, v/w, w/v, and w/w, what do you think the game looks like in those worlds, does anything really important stand out? Do you think any of those configurations are wildly unlikely?
theres some back and forth between katze and some unprovoked reactions from ender to katze's posts that just... arent necessary to approach from ender when he already has a line of discussion with kat, which makes me feel like, this is something ender does to strengthen ties to kat/cares about kats read on him, this is just one of many posts im linking, katze addressed sunbae and newcomb in the post ender is answering.
katze treatement of newcomb this game is pretty much a carbon copy of how he treated me as v/v in the poisoner invitational 21er afair
except he gave me d1 freepass (and i did get n1ed)
and i dont really think they'd play like this as a wolf
Kinda vibe with this read.
Also I like Katze's humour esp around the sleep wagon/etc so
Does both ladd and ender townread katze like this if katze is their teammate? ladd did soft v read ender similarly but i dont think hed do it for teammate katze AS WELL?
ender, do you think there are any ways in which the general consensus of the thread starkly differs from your perception of the game?
I'm not sure there is a general consensus.
But there are definitely a few trends I've seen which I'm not entirely onboard with.
See the scumreads I just posted.
i feel ender is >(>*.5)rand villagery despite also doing a lot of wolfy things
this makes me feel less cozy about some people i called villagers earlier
more on this another time
god i want to say these posts look like a wolf trying to interact with a temmate.. it looks... very teammatey ngl
it looks like the two ~consensus (given this point in the game) reads you list are ladd/sunbae v?
second seems dubious given that zack and others have suspected him
wrt ladd do you think your issues could be a result of him latching onto a specific "tell" and anchoring onto it and then your automatically suspecting him because he's pressuring you for suspect reasons? what do you think about his content outside of his push on you? do you think it's meaningful that a lot of people are v-reading him?
how do you feel about the larger-scale pushes on sunbae in the context of your main issue being that particular thing he said
why do you think him walking that back is something he'd be more likely to do as a wolf than as a villager? what are some reasons you think he could have done that there as town?
lmao reading this from the w!cuth perspective is hilarious. i dont know why cuth would define enders read to ender like this as town tbqh
cuth is asking too many questions
he's been moved to sightly below null
make your own content bronana :furious3:
lmao zack i love u
Nah Sunbae is more consensus w than v.
As I said tho, not really consensus reads exist, mine are only a bit out of whack with thread.
WRT Ladd I absolutely could see it. But I also think like, he's jumped onto this small thing like a bull terrier and hasn't even bothered to think deeper about it. Like he's got his excuse to push me, doesn't see any solid defense of me, so he's just happy to sit on it and exist without re-evalling.
The larger scale push on him exists but I haven't noticed anything with it that I thought was sus?
I think him walking it back would happen regardless of alignment, as he obviously didn't have a solid reason for it. But I feel like as town there would at least be an explanation of how he got there, instead of this vague "I thought about it and changed my mind." that doesn't tell us exactly how his brain jumped to that.
i think someone said cuth is town based on ender interactions d1 but i genuinely think what im reading now is not v/w at all. or, it doesnt excxlude w/w in any way tbqh.
Sunbae
Cuth
Sleep
V/v/v imo
Maaaaaybe zack
something something rule of 3
nods, appreciate this
i qualified the word consensus when i used it in the initial thing for a reason, yeah, more just like the reads that are held by enough people that they're sorta taken as the default in a sense beyond just being held by n people
i would cite like the reads on benneh/ladd as examples of this where people are often just ok like using less effort to clear someone just because so many other people or other people who are active/trustworthy are reading them a certain way
but this matters to some extent because often these are useful for wolves who can further agendas without actually like proactively doing anything towards them, but can also be the process of slow and inevitable death for wolves in face of towncore
wrt ladd sure
do you think the fact that there's like a third of the game that's relatively low impact could make it more likely for v!ladd to put his vote on you, someone who's active and has done a thing he doesn't like, compared to people who have less content and maybe might have fewer villagery things in their favor but also feel less productive to actually vote?
i mean i do things and think things without all of my thought process making into thread all of the time, i'm mostly curious why you jump to "since thought process isn't there, it's >rand w" instead of being like "hey what's the thought process" and then evaluate that on its own merits
there are things where <not doing x> can be ai, but do you think that particular thing seems like something that he literally just made up, and thus not going into more depth is wolfy? do you think w!sunbae would be more or less likely to monitor what he was doing and avoid doing things without having a reasonable reason to back them up than v!sunbae?
if cuth is w/w with ender i guess thats a LOT of effort put in to communicate with a teammate rather than... communicating with others?
I think V or W Ladd focuses more on the active players at this point. Active players for town can give you something. Active players for wolves are dangerous and voting the low impact sorta afk people is something I only see newer wolves do. Unless an experienced wolf has a good reason.
I will point out re: Sunbae that I have straight up asked Sunbae to give me their train of thought. And appended my wolf read with a "Unless their explanation makes me happy jiggle."
Can I just ask:
What is the point to these questions? It half feels like you're trying to find a way to pin me into a corner where I've somehow contridicted myself. And I must say it is not a feeling I like in the slightest.
maybe cuth is just being cuthy
Town:
zack
nebjiamn
Sleep
Newcomb
Light Town:
Sunbae
EnderWiggin
Cuthillus
Hollowkatt
katze
Talk more:
Montmorency
Light Wolf:
Csargo
ladd
Monstrdude
Winston
Dobby
here is reads that I have developed while struggle trying to ISO people without the ISO functionality
I bolded my most confident wolf reads.
vote: Csargo
I think Csargo has had good (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828723&viewfull=1#post2053828723) and bad (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828346&viewfull=1#post2053828346). And I feel like Csargo has been dodgy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828699&viewfull=1#post2053828699) with some of their posts (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828408&viewfull=1#post2053828408). What I mean is with some of the language they use in these posts like.
and
make of it what you will. Yes I understand people have used my light usage of words against me too, but this feels next level. ~:handball:
hm this list is pretty good and ballsy if w/w/w with ladd and monstr considering ladd wasnt really sussed a lot back then, if at all?
ladd what's even more incredible is that your ability to read and appreciate the points i'm making in my posts appears to be inversely correlated with my ability to write points that feel like they make sense to me
why does mafia make this post literally ever?
I also like these two (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828670&viewfull=1#post2053828670) posts (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828671&viewfull=1#post2053828671). Okay and this post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828695&viewfull=1#post2053828695) too ;)
Not to mention they had these similar reads (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828729&viewfull=1#post2053828729) to me.
i feel like cape has an intentional strategy of making his posts hard to parse or follow lol
First of all:
Sleep is probably town. There is a minor assumption that probably isn't good but the nitpicky right off the bat is kinda rand!town IMO and I've just liked their content overall.
It was a fun wagon at the start and the memes were great, but honestly like I would not vote there any time soon.
On the other hand, I have reasons to believe this might be Cape's towngame. Or at least that he does several of the things he's being poked about as both alignments. I recently sussed them hard for a similar game and they were green that game.
Caveat that I haven't actually read a wolf game of theirs.
there it is again, the bolded. i feel like ender is likely teamed with cape with his approach towards him, and i do agree after seeing 100 more posts with a back and forth with cuth that they feel less likely teamed tbh
just based on ender interactions rt katze and cuth i wawnt to vote cape here, with a chance that its cuth as well because thats more fakeable and more likely to be scum scum.
but yeah more factors etc. this d1 has a lot of info since we have 3 flipped wolves and its tricky finding the relevant bits
Oh also, Katze is town too. Lots of good head noddy posts from em. The snarky response about voting them out to Ladd was a meme about lyrical composition.
hm
zack
Honestly, my read on Zack keeps changing. I have felt irked by his constant susses on me, but have agreed with some of his other content. Very much a wibbly wobbly timey wimey read.
nebjiamn
Is have liked their content. Also their initial reactions to the waves I pushed their way have been okay.
cuthillius
They are doing a lot of questioning that doesn't appear to have a point to me? Like especially the way they did the questioning of me. It felt very much like a "Questioning gotcha" where they kept poking for ways to twist words. I'll quote this stuff later.
Ladd
Case pending to an office near you.
Winston Hughes
I like Winston. No particular reasons. Also Winston's early posting like this doesn't ring any alarm bells so meh.
Raskolnikov
??? Where this slot is.
Newcomb
Maybe a case coming to a thread near you soon.
Csargo
There's a black hole on my read here.
EnderWiggin
Obvious scum pls.
Sunbae
I like the vibe. I was pressing earlier to see what he would react when I tried to force him to make a reason up. The whole "Fuck you I give no reason" response was actually what I was hoping for so.
Montmorency
I feel like there's an aura of general sus on Monty. Which generally tends towards being a town thing early. Usually the scum have others defending them in a sideways enough manner that they don't become so thread general.
Dobby
Idk. Free elf probably? I remember like 0 of their posts.
monstrbro
Weak. Like I haven't seen anything from them that feels like a solid take that holds water.
hollowkatt
Their treatment of me is bad. But also I just pocketed them hard as wolf twice in a row. So I'm willing to believe it might just be a river of paranoia remnant.
oooh nice, a list.
am i blind or is cape not in this list lmao
dude cape is not in this list
At this point though I think over half the game has called me a wolf and if there's not a wolf in there I would be literally floored lmao
vote: EnderWiggin
vote: EnderWiggin
I don't hate it, not one of the villagiest people that's been wolfreading me
Just vote Ender before leaving though.
When you come back, we will talk about your sense of consensus and also willingness to AtE at 2 votes :) (I am kinda wording this as a joke, but when I have read your content I may come back to this)
What's got you on my case Raskol?
Just vote Ender before leaving though.
When you come back, we will talk about your sense of consensus and also willingness to AtE at 2 votes :) (I am kinda wording this as a joke, but when I have read your content I may come back to this)
Explain how that was AtE or I vote you
Are you trying to make me look bad? What part of that was appealing to emotion
I honestly almost don't care and want to vote you anyway because I'm sick of things like that
I don't care about this game
Thats not ate
If you think this is AtE then perhaps get a class on emotions and their uses
well u do u but when u post "spicy" because someone outs a light townread 3 pages into the game pretending noone has been, it can certainly raise questions. I don't think you think HK didn't think it, really. if you are villa, relax, otherwise keep going :bow:
okay hollowkatt re your tinfoil on rask, look at this sequence and tell me its w/w/w, that rask chooses to bump heads with two wolfmates simultaneously and be pretty aggro like this. just no, rask lock v
i kinda hate that those are the names on newcomb wagon
id say maybe its a good look for cuth that he wasnt on any of the main wagons but he wasnt there during the eod, and vanity wagon easy way to avoid the spotlight
if it needs saying sleep is town, there's no way two wolves vote cape here for no reason when there's nothing at stake (im usually wrong when im confident about something)
cape vote is self pres onto monty and then changes vote to newcomb to make him top wagon. i think from a t!cape perspective it makes sense that he has two counterwagons to himself and he selfpresses onto whoever he thinks is more likely scum?
hollowkatts voting pattern here is nai, rask is locked onto monty shrug not meaningful
You know that around the EOD that day I was saying that I thought Monty could be town and I liked the case on Newcomb that katze presented.
kekw whos most sus off of this, sleep, cape or cuth?
I forgot about that. Thanks for reminding me :D
kekw whos most sus off of this, sleep, cape or cuth?
Also that sleep quote is not sus at all so ??????????????????????
I have good reason to just allow sleep to win if they are just mafia here. No way your convincing me of that world
okay i think i got what i wanted out of that
rask is my top town
i had a few points pro sleep in my reread of day 1 but i think ive been the most lenient towards sleep so if in f3 situation id dive deep into their iso again and stuff, but not until then.
hollowkatt probably just town but will be in f3 (get rekt son)
katze looks decent actually from how theyve approached the day, has a big focus on newcomb and the interactions just seem to be like, digging into stuff in a genuine way. ender interactions really looks like ender tries to pocket kat with focus on persuading kat of stuff in situations that dont make sense for a w/w pairing. but also #thefear
-----gap-----------
i think enders parked vote on cape d2 can legit be a oh no i voted a teammate up for contention and if i change my vote itll be obvious.
i think ender's comment in his readslist on cuth is actually a good look for cuth.
but cuths vote on ladd d1 can definitely be a wolf vote since, it was vote nr 2 and then ladd got 3 votes last minute. but ladd was pr so hm weh.
cuth has some wolfy posts slash some hmthonk opinions early on especially in hindsight with the flips. cuth played it really similarly to the haunted by slep game that i linked, where theres a "doomed teammate" but ladd was less so than mr i feel like, maybe.
cape just, looks by far the worst with the flipped wolf interactions though.
i do agree with some others that cape posting in bursts is a decent look, but honestly something ive done as well to avoid wolffatigue. theres also a readslist that looks alright but i think in hindsight i dont want to give it too much cred since ender was always the deep one among those 3 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828731&viewfull=1#post2053828731)
and the thing where ender wrote a list of 14 names and cape was the one missing is.... weh lol weh lol weh
I am very doubtful i'll vote someone other than cape today. if it's not cape it's cuth
if it's neither have fun in f3
Vote: Cape90
sorry cape i saw you just entered thread but i was trying to get done with this, guests are here waiting for me so i wont be able to interact.
ill hopefully be ehre for eod, but cannot promise it tbh, i think ive done what i can with the time ive had. Sorry for spamming the thread over the lat two days
but also #thefear
i just got out of bed and this is the first thing i see
lmao
hm
oooh nice, a list.
am i blind or is cape not in this list lmao
dude cape is not in this list
Hey Dobby
Katze isn't on the list either.
Can't believe Ender TMIed us both as town, the homie (I don't think this actually clears katze lol)
First of all:
Sleep is probably town. There is a minor assumption that probably isn't good but the nitpicky right off the bat is kinda rand!town IMO and I've just liked their content overall.
It was a fun wagon at the start and the memes were great, but honestly like I would not vote there any time soon.
On the other hand, I have reasons to believe this might be Cape's towngame. Or at least that he does several of the things he's being poked about as both alignments. I recently sussed them hard for a similar game and they were green that game.
Caveat that I haven't actually read a wolf game of theirs.
Oh also, Katze is town too. Lots of good head noddy posts from em. The snarky response about voting them out to Ladd was a meme about lyrical composition.
I should just put all the other reads together in one post.
But stretching them out for drama is fun.
But I'll do one post.
he talks about me/sleep/cape right before that list which is why we're all absent from it Dobby
okay hollowkatt re your tinfoil on rask, look at this sequence and tell me its w/w/w, that rask chooses to bump heads with two wolfmates simultaneously and be pretty aggro like this. just no, rask lock v
I can't believe I'm HK now.
Okay I was missing the context of Rask talking about Monster's willingness to AtE at 2 votes comment thing there
i don't know why but cape coming in and being like "yeah i know im not villagery and you tunneling me might just come from a tunneled villager" feels really alignment indicative of cape
my first impression is to check the hydra game i wolfed against him and see how he reacted to iirc similarish pressure there but that game is really long and im p sure even capes iso is probably nearing a thousand posts :shame:
i wanna say he was more prone to fight back those reads in that game tho
shrugze
okay i think i got what i wanted out of that
rask is my top town
i had a few points pro sleep in my reread of day 1 but i think ive been the most lenient towards sleep so if in f3 situation id dive deep into their iso again and stuff, but not until then.
hollowkatt probably just town but will be in f3 (get rekt son)
katze looks decent actually from how theyve approached the day, has a big focus on newcomb and the interactions just seem to be like, digging into stuff in a genuine way. ender interactions really looks like ender tries to pocket kat with focus on persuading kat of stuff in situations that dont make sense for a w/w pairing. but also #thefear
-----gap-----------
i think enders parked vote on cape d2 can legit be a oh no i voted a teammate up for contention and if i change my vote itll be obvious.
i think ender's comment in his readslist on cuth is actually a good look for cuth.
but cuths vote on ladd d1 can definitely be a wolf vote since, it was vote nr 2 and then ladd got 3 votes last minute. but ladd was pr so hm weh.
cuth has some wolfy posts slash some hmthonk opinions early on especially in hindsight with the flips. cuth played it really similarly to the haunted by slep game that i linked, where theres a "doomed teammate" but ladd was less so than mr i feel like, maybe.
cape just, looks by far the worst with the flipped wolf interactions though.
i do agree with some others that cape posting in bursts is a decent look, but honestly something ive done as well to avoid wolffatigue. theres also a readslist that looks alright but i think in hindsight i dont want to give it too much cred since ender was always the deep one among those 3 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828731&viewfull=1#post2053828731)
and the thing where ender wrote a list of 14 names and cape was the one missing is.... weh lol weh lol weh
I am very doubtful i'll vote someone other than cape today. if it's not cape it's cuth
if it's neither have fun in f3
Vote: Cape90
You do have 1 good point here
I do kinda have fatigue :p
Since the mash I 600+ posted in, like that was exhausting. I'm sure sleep over there who endgamed with me is even more burnt LMAO.
BTW never consider Sleep in final 3, my advice is if you or sleep make it to final 3, other 2 people should vote each other.
I have no idea what mafia is doing if both you and sleep make it to there, but if so, then you tinfioil
cuth showing up and doing basically nothing is also a thing that i want to pretend didn't happen but kinda does highlight the concern people are having with his activity drops in a neon red "hey fucko they might be onto something" way
although uh
a) this post made me smile the rest of it not this quote specifically
b) wolf claim???
i'm staring at this post and trying to comprehend what you think is wolfclaimy from me there cause im no stranger to claiming mafia and had exactly zero intent of doing so that post lmao
nah i basically signed radish's death warrant there
stuff had been shifting in his direction for a while and i knew i needed to bus exactly there to have any chance of wolves winning the game
there were like seven villagers that were pretty much clear just by posting d1
it was not conducive to wolves winning
i wasn't like guaranteed radishes will die but it was clear he wasn't going to last and it was clear mac wasn't going to last at that point either and i felt like given a cop i had to do that there to just make it possible to endgame period given threadstate
i do kinda wonder like
this is a post that... makes cuth look worse objectively, because part of my evaluation of that game was that he didn't think MR would go over and comparing his EoD1 in that game to this one and him admitting he was basically willing to sign the death warrant in cold blood for his own positioning is... hm. at EoD1 i feel like in a w!cuth world it wouldn't be impossible that he assumes he's going to be the last wolf alive so... maaaaybe it was a "read the room" thing, especially since cuth himself was a wagon in contention at that EoD?
gonna reread the slep d1 again and check for something specific
oh that post kinda turned into a tangent but i was thinking "does w!cuth shoot himself in the foot and say that and this honesty comes from v!cuth"
to which i say "fuck if i know i've seen wolves be honest to a fault and have been that wolf before" and iirc last time i had this kinda read it was wrong so maybe its just a bad one :p
First of all:
Sleep is probably town. There is a minor assumption that probably isn't good but the nitpicky right off the bat is kinda rand!town IMO and I've just liked their content overall.
It was a fun wagon at the start and the memes were great, but honestly like I would not vote there any time soon.
On the other hand, I have reasons to believe this might be Cape's towngame. Or at least that he does several of the things he's being poked about as both alignments. I recently sussed them hard for a similar game and they were green that game.
Caveat that I haven't actually read a wolf game of theirs.
Oh also, Katze is town too. Lots of good head noddy posts from em. The snarky response about voting them out to Ladd was a meme about lyrical composition.
i lied im lurking
but yeah this post about kat was the post before that readslist (also i thought this was a 15er so someone else is prolly missing too)
yeah this other post im quoting exists too and i only read sleep there but youre in it too so my b (but its still the same read that ive pointed out a few times)
i don't know why but cape coming in and being like "yeah i know im not villagery and you tunneling me might just come from a tunneled villager" feels really alignment indicative of cape
my first impression is to check the hydra game i wolfed against him and see how he reacted to iirc similarish pressure there but that game is really long and im p sure even capes iso is probably nearing a thousand posts :shame:
i wanna say he was more prone to fight back those reads in that game tho
shrugze
That game did not feel like we had home advantage. Even when wolves died because I was suspecting that last wolf was extremely deep and hard to find.
I was right and also I got the closest to sniffing out the last wolf, but nobody would listen anyways.
Not to mention that I kinda thrive in games with a lot of that... I guess, stimulation and all that going on. It helps with this sort of investment I have. Doesn't help my laptop is dead on battery rn. Also didn't help when I was thinking that I was overthinking things and it was just Monty, so why bother having WIM?
It's different now but I been kinda on the road this entire game day.
There was a lot to fight back against in those games because there was a lot to fight back against. Like that game, I didn't really follow where the suspicion on me was coming from, I think it was a really towny game from me.
This game is different and it's like, I can see where the sus is coming from, I think that town can solve with me gone, it will kinda be a waste but I feel like there are towniest with a better grasp on things then I do right now.
I didn't feel this way with the Hydra game as I was highly opinionated there
i think monstr might be in the category of people who approach mafia in a similar enough way to me as wolves in particular that i have a hard time actually figuring him out
i don't know who else is in that category off the top of my head but monstr is that's for sure
I don't know if I hold to the belief that this is not w/w
But
I also feel like it is pretty strange to just compare yourself to your own wolf partner like this. :shrug:
ok re-rereading d1 of slep and i feel like cuth knew he was going to be the F3 wolf from really early on just based off of how he's interacting with mac/MR
like it's only post 600 and
https://i.imgur.com/aeCq6qR.png
kinda wondering why he picked those two names to be wolf with him but thats not relevant :wowee:
benneh
ender
katze
sunbae
monstr
cape
hk but this read is from early d1
newc
roro
sleep
zack
ladd
csargo
monty
winston
rask
and if you're saying to yourself "gee four orgers on the bottom of that list" guess what i've been saying to myself for the last like 24 hours too
alphabetical within tiers as always
this list is kinda sticking with me
gth it doesnt come from a place with TMI but like
exactly the center is still alive and if he's a wolf then the bottom of his list is still all villagers + ladd so meh
probably can't ride the "too wack to be a wolf" when it's still effective at agenda just in a roundabout way
i don't think cuth makes that list if he's expecting to be an endgaming wolf unless he's really banking off of like, refuge in audacity + ladd being ladd + ladd being a "PR", the last of which being an argument that really doesn't hold much merit when you consider what the wolf PRs do in this setup... but people have been throwing around ladd spew as "this is wolf PR" and not "this is one of the best players on the already stacked playerlist as both alignments" like i have so :wowee:
okay ive looked at that list like 4 times and just realized rask is at the very very bottom of it
I don't know if I hold to the belief that this is not w/w
But
I also feel like it is pretty strange to just compare yourself to your own wolf partner like this. :shrug:
it's certainly a unique read if w/w
if i preflip cuth w and look at it i'd say it's like
'the top line is probably actually true and an observation cuth has made prior to this game and the bottom line gives him leeway to be wrong there' which doesn't feel impossible
if you/cuth/me/sleep are all town who do you think the last wolf is?
idk who im voting rn but im hedging real hard in my head rn so im assuming i'd not agree with whoever it is
vote:unvote
gonna take a short break, i think i have a lean in one direction but it is a lot less confident than id like it to be
it's certainly a unique read if w/w
if i preflip cuth w and look at it i'd say it's like
'the top line is probably actually true and an observation cuth has made prior to this game and the bottom line gives him leeway to be wrong there' which doesn't feel impossible
if you/cuth/me/sleep are all town who do you think the last wolf is?
can you just explain a little how your opinion slash thoughts on cape has change the last 40 hours
Cuthillius
05-01-2022, 20:18
cuth showing up and doing basically nothing is also a thing that i want to pretend didn't happen but kinda does highlight the concern people are having with his activity drops in a neon red "hey fucko they might be onto something" way
although uh
i'm staring at this post and trying to comprehend what you think is wolfclaimy from me there cause im no stranger to claiming mafia and had exactly zero intent of doing so that post lmao
ask gira or dobby about my ability to sustain wim to the degree necessary to get a win and come back to me
also it was a joke you were saying the game in which i was a wolf sounded more like the way you post than i normally do feel free to disregard
Cuthillius
05-01-2022, 20:22
i do kinda wonder like
this is a post that... makes cuth look worse objectively, because part of my evaluation of that game was that he didn't think MR would go over and comparing his EoD1 in that game to this one and him admitting he was basically willing to sign the death warrant in cold blood for his own positioning is... hm. at EoD1 i feel like in a w!cuth world it wouldn't be impossible that he assumes he's going to be the last wolf alive so... maaaaybe it was a "read the room" thing, especially since cuth himself was a wagon in contention at that EoD?
gonna reread the slep d1 again and check for something specific
no i hundred percent did expect him to probably die there
and i voted him earlier on in the phase and then quickly unvoted to set it up in a way that would be believable
but again there are a lot of very specific things about that setup that made me do it that way, i don't know if i could have won without doing so but it would have been a lot harder
a) there was a cop, and it was a 15er mountainous (which is already townsided in a good playerlist) but WITH A COP
b) in exchange for this there was wolf teammate picking mechanic, but both of my teammates were already pretty widely suspected by eod1 and again like literally half the game had effectively posted themselves clear (even if we killed them later on because we ran out of people who weren't clear off their posts lol)
as such i felt bussing was kinda necessary to both bolster my status mechanically with respect to the burgeoning towncore and also avoid being peeked by the cop for at least a couple phases
and it was a bit overkill so i had to let the cop get a second peek to make sure i could make it to f3 without it looking weird
but i was the only one who was ever gonna endgame by that point
Cuthillius
05-01-2022, 20:25
kinda wondering why he picked those two names to be wolf with him but thats not relevant :wowee:
i remembered them both being champs people and somewhat respected and didn't really wanna outlevel myself by picking other people
so i picked people i thought were competent and had some ties to community but who i wasn't really connected to
feel pretty bad about how it went down in retrospect but what can you do
Cuthillius
05-01-2022, 20:39
Also im pretty sure that like 5 different people squinted at me already so I don't think the spicy gif is a valid gif. Gonna have to give you a meme demerit. This is your first, if you receive 3 demerits I'll be forced to give you a meme citation. Five citations, and you're looking at a violation. Four of those, and you'll receive a verbal warning. Keep it up, and you're looking at a written warning. Two of those, that will land you in a world of hurt, in the form of a disciplinary review, written up by me, and placed on the desk of my immediate superior, Bronana from the Syndicate.
sunbae i didn't vocally appreciate this post as much as it deserved at the time
Raskolnikov
05-01-2022, 20:51
Sup friendos. Got no time this week end but should be around the last 3 hours of the day. I had some thoughts overnight but want to read first.
Cuthillius
05-01-2022, 20:57
hey gira could you do me a favor and order this list from v->w
Cape90
cuthillius
katze
Raskolnikov
roro__b
Sleephollowkatt
Cuthillius
05-01-2022, 21:06
i feel like this game has been high turbulence while being stacked sorry i'm being too cuthy again let me pause and think how to phrase this
it feels like
even though things were all over the place d1 the wolves weren't really able to take much advantage of that and even the flipped ones just seem like they're being pretty distancey and not idk feeling like they can take advantage of the town being as divided as they are?
Cuthillius
05-01-2022, 21:08
sunbae i was reading this post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828762&viewfull=1#post2053828762) and reflecting on the fact that your existence is a blessing
can you just explain a little how your opinion slash thoughts on cape has change the last 40 hours
uhhh it's been a combination of "cape kinda moving up" and "cuth moving down"
fwiw im still currently leaning on cape being the wolf but when i wrote that post one of his posts gave me a lot of pause
There was a lot to fight back against in those games because there was a lot to fight back against. Like that game, I didn't really follow where the suspicion on me was coming from, I think it was a really towny game from me.
This game is different and it's like, I can see where the sus is coming from, I think that town can solve with me gone, it will kinda be a waste but I feel like there are towniest with a better grasp on things then I do right now.
I didn't feel this way with the Hydra game as I was highly opinionated there
like... i read this post and my impression is "this is exactly the perspective i think v!cape would have, maybe he is just having a really lacking game and i need to evaluate the perspective more than the content"
and then i kinda short circuited and left thread and now im back and im still kinda thinking about it but i'm also not sure what his actual perspective wrt the last wolf is because his last few posts are like. he doesn't seem to think it's cuth. or sleep. or me? so does he think it's you/hk? does he think it's raskol? i guess he's kinda hedging on cuth so my mental model of cape rn is thinking that it's prob cuth but with low confidence?
idk i was hoping he'd answer my question before i answered yours because the ambiguity of his perspective is... not inherently wolfy but it's easy for my brain to see as such
ask gira or dobby about my ability to sustain wim to the degree necessary to get a win and come back to me
also it was a joke you were saying the game in which i was a wolf sounded more like the way you post than i normally do feel free to disregard
fwiw im fully aware that you're capable of wimming it up as a wolf (im the same way and i almost joked earlier that dobby outposting me is clearing for me) but it doesn't mean that i'm going to not point it out ykno
also fair enough, i think it's just a 2020 cuth thing because you didn't sound as katzey in the SK game from what i saw unfortunately or i'd just read you like you're me :clown:
sunbae i was reading this post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828762&viewfull=1#post2053828762) and reflecting on the fact that your existence is a blessing
agreed, we stan sunbae in this house
i am biased because he called me cool
hey gira could you do me a favor and order this list from v->w
Cape90
cuthillius
katze
Raskolnikov
roro__b
Sleephollowkatt
also i just realized what this post is and lmao
i feel like this game has been high turbulence while being stacked sorry i'm being too cuthy again let me pause and think how to phrase this
it feels like
even though things were all over the place d1 the wolves weren't really able to take much advantage of that and even the flipped ones just seem like they're being pretty distancey and not idk feeling like they can take advantage of the town being as divided as they are?
what do you think this means for the players in this mafia game and their alignments
Cuthillius
05-01-2022, 21:18
ok so
i just spent the last hour reading from the start
and
hk is just v
he dunks on wolf after wolf
the wolves are all distancing like mad
sleep also
and in particular the sequence when he absolutely dunks on cape
i acknowledge that cape isn't flipped
but in perspective of ender stuff i think it's like
chill sorry my brain is absolutely fried
but cape like v-reads sleep for. not w-reading ender but saying that someone else had a way more believable take on the ender post cape called "weird" (before immediately v-reading him for unclear reasons)
this post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828345&viewfull=1#post2053828345) is hilarious
basically
dobby and katze just feel super believable
and i have felt this and i think there are probably concrete things i could find if i read the whole game but there have been stretches where they just feel villagery
and
looking back at the cape stuff when i was initially v-reading it looks not so great esp with the perspective on overall wolf strategy
so i feel pretty ok with going there today
and very confident on sleep/hk v
so yee
vote: cape
Cuthillius
05-01-2022, 21:21
fwiw im fully aware that you're capable of wimming it up as a wolf (im the same way and i almost joked earlier that dobby outposting me is clearing for me) but it doesn't mean that i'm going to not point it out ykno
also fair enough, i think it's just a 2020 cuth thing because you didn't sound as katzey in the SK game from what i saw unfortunately or i'd just read you like you're me :clown:
no i think it's more that my engagement level across this game (including d1 to some extent actually) kinda points to my not being wolf rather than a thing of like i could as wolf
also on that point i've barely played this game i am realizing looking at d1
like i know i was tired and out of touch but i REALLY was both of those things and i'm not reading any more but i know i haven't been better
so i appreciate your patience with me
why is it now that im softening up on cape that everyone else is like "oh its obviously cape and katze was a genius all along" help
Cuthillius
05-01-2022, 21:23
also i just realized what this post is and lmao
what do you think this means for the players in this mafia game and their alignments
for a specific example of how it's relevant
i was looking back at my interaction with ender and thinking about how his like acting stubborn about bad read wrt sunbae stuff actually kinda makes sense if he's trying to dig in and get sunbae to reasses like a me/monstr dichotomy or explain it because upon explanation it will be clear that it's less polarized than sunbae initially explained it and thus like balance out the me/monstr unalign/reads which is only beneficial for wolves
but i wasn't considering it from that perspective because i didn't think the wolves were likely to be cannibalizing as much as it seems like they really were
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