Sorceror 17er Game Thread

[katze]

i have never felt so called out before

[Sunbae]

So I figured a kinda stream of consciousness big post of the general headspace would maybe help people with where I'm at? Not sure if it did.Was worth trying though

[Sunbae]

i have never felt so called out before

You were merely adopted by the peepeepoopoo
I was born into it
molded by it

[Cuthillius]

my iso has as much sleep in it as i've had since the start of the game

these two things are very much connected

[Cuthillius]

So I figured a kinda stream of consciousness big post of the general headspace would maybe help people with where I'm at? Not sure if it did.Was worth trying though

it did but you didn't say anything about me((

[Newcomb]

I cannot emphasize enough how hard it is for me to get my footing in a game where I am kind of the center of attention, so like I have almost zero confidence in any of my reads here - especially ones based on how someone has interacted with me. I think I just got really, really, really shook when Zack of all people (who I normally vibe really well with) just came at me out of the gate. I tried hard to just sit back and let other things develop and find things I thought were interesting, but well nothing really developed and the focus got more and more on me.

I get that. Would it help if I said that regardless of how much people are focusing on you right now, you're very unlikely to be the lynch toDay?

[nebjiamn]

I don't have a ton of thoughts on roro right now, sunbae

I've got them lumped in a pile with slight wolfy vibes from players but hardly anything that's locked in. i would like to see dobby come in and spit out a few more actually-indicative posts so i can really figure out where to slot them but as of now i'm just kind of leaving them there for my initial read on their opener and then some still-goofing-around-but-no-real-thoughts on their 2nd burst of posts. i think they mentioned cape a bit but not anything worth much IMHO

why are you specifically concerned with my thoughts on roro here?

[katze]

So I figured a kinda stream of consciousness big post of the general headspace would maybe help people with where I'm at? Not sure if it did.Was worth trying though

i read it and since then have been kinda trying to formulate thoughts about ladd and have... not really had much success honestly

this is to say that im hedging there mentally

[nebjiamn]

i clicked the spoiler and immediately hated myself, fwiw

[katze]

i clicked the spoiler and immediately hated myself, fwiw

hehe

[ladd]

- I kinda think Ladd is a wolf but I will begrudgingly refrain from doing anything about it because the one thing I'm pretty good at concerning werewolf is understanding my place in a threadstate and I know barking up that tree with just get me scoffed at currently. I don't think his approach to me - notably saying I've been so non-committal that it's wolfy because I did it 6 years ago once - is reasonable. On either front. The "good read if it's an accurate representation" front and the "accurate representation of my play so far this game" front. I feel like I've been pretty open about my feelings on people and, quite frankly, feel like I'm one of the people that's been most straight forward about their reads and why they have them (outside of the cuth/monstr thing).


https://i.imgur.com/SiQ48gG.png

[nebjiamn]

hehe
i knew what this was but did not regret it, fwiw

[katze]

did we just beetlejuice ladd into existence i dont know what time it is in italy

[nebjiamn]

ill click through 100 spoilers to get a hehe

another fatal flaw of MU is that annoying 'reveal all spoilers' bs

Org GOAT

[Newcomb]

I mean I don't really have much tbh, I've just been messing around.

I'd say that zack/benneh/sunbae/ladd/Cuth seem good

Newcomb/katze/sleep/winston seem fine

Rask/Monstr/hk I don't have a good read on

The rest have either made posts I found wolfy that I'm pretty sure I've talked about already or just haven't posted enough.

Think Monty's the most likely woof I can see, just from prior game experience.

I guess I should explicitly make this a question, so what's up with including rask here?

Like, including rask in a list with everyone I buy. Forgetting to include rask when doing a stream of consciousness "state of the game" post I buy. This halfway thing where rask is included in a specific group of 3 along with 2 other players both of which have posted a moderate amount is... odd?

I can't reeeeeally fit this to an obvious wolf mindset thing, like... w/w with rask? Nah I feel like he'd be even more aware than Joe Villager that his partner was currently 0 posting. Knows rask is v and too lazy to check since already knew alignment? Doesn't really seem that likely.

Still though I kind of want to know what's up with this post since it's odd in a way that demands a reason, like there has to be a reason the thought went there to put that name with those two.

[katze]

ill click through 100 spoilers to get a hehe

another fatal flaw of MU is that annoying 'reveal all spoilers' bs

Org GOAT

hehhttps://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/905967572787265616.webp?size=96&quality=lossless

[Cuthillius]

newc/sleep/rask/zack are all roughly in the same category in my mind reads

[Sunbae]

Cuth: current thoughts are "feel like I should be confident one way or another strictly off the 'i voted them strictly for their reads list' post and follow up but I'm not".

Neb: Wanted to know your thoughts on Dobby because you were the one who kicked off the game with stuff about dobby, I "shielded" dobby, and then someone (i think HK) invoked my shielding as something they wanted to do too and it kinda just spooked me so I wanted to see your thoughts 24 hrs later.

Newc: It does a little, thanks.

Ladd: This could have been us but then you voted/piled on me and now im just all turned around :shakehands:

[nebjiamn]

hehhttps://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/905967572787265616.webp?size=96&quality=lossless
me, clicking those spoilers:https://i.imgur.com/D7vVVGW.gif

[katze]

me, clicking those spoilers:https://i.imgur.com/D7vVVGW.gif

hehehehehttps://media.discordapp.net/attachments/223260125786406912/942848729935908894/11-Pokemon-Laughing-Animated-Gif.gifhttps://media.discordapp.net/attachments/223260125786406912/942848846348841011/3eb271204e2ffb3123a8590047c29c63.gif

[nebjiamn]

newc/sleep/rask/zack are all roughly in the same category in my mind reads
this is cuth's subtle form of trolling right

[katze]

it wasnt subtle


newc/sleep/rask/zack are all roughly in the same category in my mind reads

I guess I should explicitly make this a question, so what's up with including rask here?

Like, including rask in a list with everyone I buy. Forgetting to include rask when doing a stream of consciousness "state of the game" post I buy. This halfway thing where rask is included in a specific group of 4 along with 3 other players both of which have posted a moderate amount is... odd?

I can't reeeeeally fit this to an obvious wolf mindset thing, like... w/w with rask? Nah I feel like he'd be even more aware than Joe Villager that his partner was currently 0 posting. Knows rask is v and too lazy to check since already knew alignment? Doesn't really seem that likely.

Still though I kind of want to know what's up with this post since it's odd in a way that demands a reason, like there has to be a reason the thought went there to put that name with those two.

[EnderWiggin]

The lack of appreciation for my lyrical masterpiece makes me sad.

[Sunbae]

The lack of appreciation for my lyrical masterpiece makes me sad.

I tried to follow up with something and couldn't come up with anything. You bested me in this lyrical battle

[nebjiamn]

if you really want someone to read your posts, you have to bury the good shit under 10 spoilers

otherwise i just gloss over it and pretend to read it later when sunbae asks me

[ladd]

Ladd: This could have been us but then you voted/piled on me and now im just all turned around :shakehands:

I'll take the blame

feel free to push for me if you want btw

[ladd]

i'll give you the advantage too

enderwiggin

[katze]

I tried to follow up with something and couldn't come up with anything. You bested me in this lyrical battle

i will win the lyrical battle

You ready? Let's go!
Yeah!
For those of you that wanna know what this situation is all about

This is ten percent bad luck, twenty percent the set-up
Fifteen percent benneh the Town Clown
Five percent Newcomb, fifty percent the willage
And a hundred percent reason to remember the name katze

katze the Townie
Yeah!

She doesn't need maximum towncred
She just wants to be heard, just wants her post to be read
She feels so unlike everybody else, alone
Nobody believes his claim

In spite of the fact that some people still think that they know she is town
But fuck 'em, she knows the way, it?s not about winning
It's all about reality and showing she?s town

katze the Townie
Yeah!

Telling his truth
Who the hell is she, anyway? She never really talks much
katze the Townie

Never concerned with townreads, just fighting for life
Humbled through opportunities given despite the fact
Visor included katze in the set-up

They many misjudge her 'cause she might claim a role similar to one that'll flip
Put it together herself, now the picture connects

This is twenty percent bad luck, eighty percent the set-up
Be a hundred percent clear, 'cause katze is town
This dude is the telling his truth

This is ten percent bad luck, twenty percent the set-up
Fifteen percent benneh the Town Clown
Five percent Newcomb, fifty percent the willage
And a hundred percent reason to remember the name katze the Townie

She's not your everyday Townie
She knows how to work with what he's got, making her way to the top of the post count
She often gets a comment on his name, people keep asking her
"How can you exist"
No, she's living proof (Proof), got her rocking the booth
Dedicated to her role and giving it a hundred percent

Forget benneh, forget mechanics
Forget the design
Just pay attention to this rhyme

When katze flips Town, just say instead
Ridiculous, mechanics lost us the game again

[Csargo]

I guess I should explicitly make this a question, so what's up with including rask here?

Like, including rask in a list with everyone I buy. Forgetting to include rask when doing a stream of consciousness "state of the game" post I buy. This halfway thing where rask is included in a specific group of 3 along with 2 other players both of which have posted a moderate amount is... odd?

I can't reeeeeally fit this to an obvious wolf mindset thing, like... w/w with rask? Nah I feel like he'd be even more aware than Joe Villager that his partner was currently 0 posting. Knows rask is v and too lazy to check since already knew alignment? Doesn't really seem that likely.

Still though I kind of want to know what's up with this post since it's odd in a way that demands a reason, like there has to be a reason the thought went there to put that name with those two.

I like Rask and I don't have strong feelings either way on Monstr/HK and Rask has zero posted, and thought "don't have a good read on" would equate to null for people. Felt like I didn't have to add Dobby/Ender/Capo, because it's not hard to fill in the blanks.

[Newcomb]

yeah i mean, i already flat out said that i am 100% not a wolf who'd tremble in fear seeing your name in the playerlist, and i strongly doubt you don't know that given... awkwardly motions towards the finale

Not gonna respond to your other stuff about me in this post, but I do want to clear this up since it's not a subjective interpretation thing, it's actually about the facts of my read: my read isn't that you're a scardy catwolf who'd be afraid to push me. I have no idea if you would or not. If you say you wouldn't then I have no particular reason to doubt you. My read is that you as a player would be in a position to know that I have read people town in the past for pushing on me. That you have just enough knowledge of me as a player - reputation, not actual experience - to think that it might be a viable path. I'm not saying anything in particular about your actual, real feelings, just how I imagine someone with a certain kind of knowledge might possibly decide to approach me. I'm not even saying that I know you well enough as a player to think that you *would* go for that strategy. Just that there are some players in this game who I would discount as people who might do that, either because they've never played with me, or played with me enough to know it wouldn't work particularly well.


for the time being i'm pretty much entirely willing to discount w/w

i personally think it's very likely v on sleeps side, i think it's a particular kind of village nitpickiness and i personally don't really think it comes from the mindset of "a wolf who is trying to bury a villager"... i typed out a few reasons why but i realize that at this stage of the game i don't really think anyone would ever write a wallpost along the lines of "cape is 100% lack woalf and all of these small things are damning and never done by villagers, lmao"

still believe it's pretty likely to come from a villa tho, and if sleep does end up flipping mafia i'd assume one or two of his bros at the least were already under heat and the cape case was a way to divert it or keep himself out of the fire. or both.

so that leaves v/v or v(sleep)/w(cape). personally i don't think cape has been very villagery, partially due to meta reasons - it's something i don't really feel like pursuing strongly today though because i think cape is like, blindingly villagery as town after a few phases.

i don't really know what the ~threadstate~ would look like in any of these worlds, that's not really something i'm great at and i feel like the mafia roles aren't particularly important so it's not like mafia are obligated to like, hard defend their vig or something.

my current take is that it's v/v > v(sleep)/w(cape)>>>>>w(sleep)/v(cape)>>>>>>>>w/w

I agree that w/w is not a very strong possibility. The timing of it, it would have to be either kind of a rogue crazy move or something where they were convinced cape was always going down, and that wallpost didn't really have that manic / vicious edge to it.

About that wallpost in general, though. I'm a bit mixed on it. I think the best thing you said about it was pointing out the stage of the game that it happened - because yeah, there's very little *reason* for a wolf to try to bury a villager like that, at that point. What it felt more to me like wasn't burying a villager so much as wanting to be townread. It's the kind of post I make as a wolf, but the thing is, I make it way later in the Day. I make it because I feel pressured by my thread position. I make it out of like, obligation. So the timing of it doesn't feel very wolfy at all.

Still though, I keep coming back to it because it pings me very strongly on the "pushing on things that look bad vs. pushing on things that actually make someone likely to flip wolf" scale.

[ladd]

my wife just walked in, tried to talk to me, paused for a moment, and then said "you're playing that game again, aren't you?"

:shame:

Winston Hughes how much of the thread had you read when you made this post?



couple of zack's post overnight actually gave me the FEAR

1) calling cuth out for asking too many questions felt level 0

2) the monty push


i actually really liked some of cuth stuff overnight which is incredible cause i usually don't even get what they are saying


nods, appreciate this

i qualified the word consensus when i used it in the initial thing for a reason, yeah, more just like the reads that are held by enough people that they're sorta taken as the default in a sense beyond just being held by n people

i would cite like the reads on benneh/ladd as examples of this where people are often just ok like using less effort to clear someone just because so many other people or other people who are active/trustworthy are reading them a certain way

but this matters to some extent because often these are useful for wolves who can further agendas without actually like proactively doing anything towards them, but can also be the process of slow and inevitable death for wolves in face of towncore

wrt ladd sure

do you think the fact that there's like a third of the game that's relatively low impact could make it more likely for v!ladd to put his vote on you, someone who's active and has done a thing he doesn't like, compared to people who have less content and maybe might have fewer villagery things in their favor but also feel less productive to actually vote?

i mean i do things and think things without all of my thought process making into thread all of the time, i'm mostly curious why you jump to "since thought process isn't there, it's >rand w" instead of being like "hey what's the thought process" and then evaluate that on its own merits

there are things where <not doing x> can be ai, but do you think that particular thing seems like something that he literally just made up, and thus not going into more depth is wolfy? do you think w!sunbae would be more or less likely to monitor what he was doing and avoid doing things without having a reasonable reason to back them up than v!sunbae?

this was a real nice thought

[EnderWiggin]

I should just pretend to be a wolf every game.

For some reason I get more townread that way.

[nebjiamn]

i will win the lyrical battle

You ready? Let's go!
Yeah!
For those of you that wanna know what this situation is all about

This is ten percent bad luck, twenty percent the set-up
Fifteen percent benneh the Town Clown
Five percent Newcomb, fifty percent the willage
And a hundred percent reason to remember the name katze

katze the Townie
Yeah!

She doesn't need maximum towncred
She just wants to be heard, just wants her post to be read
She feels so unlike everybody else, alone
Nobody believes his claim

In spite of the fact that some people still think that they know she is town
But fuck 'em, she knows the way, it?s not about winning
It's all about reality and showing she?s town

katze the Townie
Yeah!

Telling his truth
Who the hell is she, anyway? She never really talks much
katze the Townie

Never concerned with townreads, just fighting for life
Humbled through opportunities given despite the fact
Visor included katze in the set-up

They many misjudge her 'cause she might claim a role similar to one that'll flip
Put it together herself, now the picture connects

This is twenty percent bad luck, eighty percent the set-up
Be a hundred percent clear, 'cause katze is town
This dude is the telling his truth

This is ten percent bad luck, twenty percent the set-up
Fifteen percent benneh the Town Clown
Five percent Newcomb, fifty percent the willage
And a hundred percent reason to remember the name katze the Townie

She's not your everyday Townie
She knows how to work with what he's got, making her way to the top of the post count
She often gets a comment on his name, people keep asking her
"How can you exist"
No, she's living proof (Proof), got her rocking the booth
Dedicated to her role and giving it a hundred percent

Forget benneh, forget mechanics
Forget the design
Just pay attention to this rhyme

When katze flips Town, just say instead
Ridiculous, mechanics lost us the game again
wow, a non-peepeepoopoo spoiler i regretted clicking

well done katze

[EnderWiggin]

i will win the lyrical battle

You ready? Let's go!
Yeah!
For those of you that wanna know what this situation is all about

This is ten percent bad luck, twenty percent the set-up
Fifteen percent benneh the Town Clown
Five percent Newcomb, fifty percent the willage
And a hundred percent reason to remember the name katze

katze the Townie
Yeah!

She doesn't need maximum towncred
She just wants to be heard, just wants her post to be read
She feels so unlike everybody else, alone
Nobody believes his claim

In spite of the fact that some people still think that they know she is town
But fuck 'em, she knows the way, it?s not about winning
It's all about reality and showing she?s town

katze the Townie
Yeah!

Telling his truth
Who the hell is she, anyway? She never really talks much
katze the Townie

Never concerned with townreads, just fighting for life
Humbled through opportunities given despite the fact
Visor included katze in the set-up

They many misjudge her 'cause she might claim a role similar to one that'll flip
Put it together herself, now the picture connects

This is twenty percent bad luck, eighty percent the set-up
Be a hundred percent clear, 'cause katze is town
This dude is the telling his truth

This is ten percent bad luck, twenty percent the set-up
Fifteen percent benneh the Town Clown
Five percent Newcomb, fifty percent the willage
And a hundred percent reason to remember the name katze the Townie

She's not your everyday Townie
She knows how to work with what he's got, making her way to the top of the post count
She often gets a comment on his name, people keep asking her
"How can you exist"
No, she's living proof (Proof), got her rocking the booth
Dedicated to her role and giving it a hundred percent

Forget benneh, forget mechanics
Forget the design
Just pay attention to this rhyme

When katze flips Town, just say instead
Ridiculous, mechanics lost us the game again

I want to say that this is beautiful.

[EnderWiggin]

I'm kinda tired and meh rn. I'm gonna go play Gloomhaven for a while and then I'll come back and see if I can put my serious pants on for y'all.

[ladd]

katze,

i have played exactly 1 game with newcomb (tho I have read a bunch), idr have experience with them

i just think they are genuinely trying to solve the game

[Cuthillius]

ladd what's even more incredible is that your ability to read and appreciate the points i'm making in my posts appears to be inversely correlated with my ability to write points that feel like they make sense to me

[ladd]

I'm kinda tired and meh rn. I'm gonna go play Gloomhaven for a while and then I'll come back and see if I can put my serious pants on for y'all.

can you write a couple of sentences on who you'd lunch right now and why

[Cape90]

i have to ask, in #291 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828555&viewfull=1#post2053828555) you expressed a "bubbling scumread" of cuthilius and monstr, and then stated that they weren't w/w. is that anti-alignment the reason you have cuth as a light townread now, or is there something more...?

Cuth looked better pretty much every post they made after my initial post suspecting them

[katze]

Not gonna respond to your other stuff about me in this post, but I do want to clear this up since it's not a subjective interpretation thing, it's actually about the facts of my read: my read isn't that you're a scardy catwolf who'd be afraid to push me. I have no idea if you would or not. If you say you wouldn't then I have no particular reason to doubt you. My read is that you as a player would be in a position to know that I have read people town in the past for pushing on me. That you have just enough knowledge of me as a player - reputation, not actual experience - to think that it might be a viable path. I'm not saying anything in particular about your actual, real feelings, just how I imagine someone with a certain kind of knowledge might possibly decide to approach me. I'm not even saying that I know you well enough as a player to think that you *would* go for that strategy. Just that there are some players in this game who I would discount as people who might do that, either because they've never played with me, or played with me enough to know it wouldn't work particularly well.

[...]

I agree that w/w is not a very strong possibility. The timing of it, it would have to be either kind of a rogue crazy move or something where they were convinced cape was always going down, and that wallpost didn't really have that manic / vicious edge to it.

About that wallpost in general, though. I'm a bit mixed on it. I think the best thing you said about it was pointing out the stage of the game that it happened - because yeah, there's very little *reason* for a wolf to try to bury a villager like that, at that point. What it felt more to me like wasn't burying a villager so much as wanting to be townread. It's the kind of post I make as a wolf, but the thing is, I make it way later in the Day. I make it because I feel pressured by my thread position. I make it out of like, obligation. So the timing of it doesn't feel very wolfy at all.

Still though, I keep coming back to it because it pings me very strongly on the "pushing on things that look bad vs. pushing on things that actually make someone likely to flip wolf" scale.

alrighty, understood wrt the clarification - i understand the not responding to suspicion thing even if it's mildly disappointing (although im kinda at a point where i'm aware that it's very unlikely either of us die today so it's probably strictly for the better but i'm still sketched bout a few things in any case)

anyway, we can just drop that entirely for now

so uh, the sleep post. i can kinda see it as "a wolf writing it specifically to look villagery" and it's a thought that's entered my mind, but i still think that most cases in which they feel pressured that early to write a post like that to look villagery that the thread consensus was already looking unfavorable for mafia, so i think that's something i'd want to revisit after some wolf flips as opposed to soon if that makes sense

[katze]

wow, a non-peepeepoopoo spoiler i regretted clicking

well done katze

credit goes to artsy of mafia universe i could never write anything so brilliant


katze,

i have played exactly 1 game with newcomb (tho I have read a bunch), idr have experience with them

i just think they are genuinely trying to solve the game

ladd,

fair enough

[Cape90]

Cape90 if you could expand on why winston is your next biggest w read after csargo that would be appreciated

You (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828465&viewfull=1#post2053828465) are (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828469&viewfull=1#post2053828469) reading (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828621&viewfull=1#post2053828621) the same (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828634&viewfull=1#post2053828634) Winston as I am right (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828619&viewfull=1#post2053828619)?

[EnderWiggin]

can you write a couple of sentences on who you'd lunch right now and why

You.

Because of *Spins wheel* Prejudice. Wait no that's not right.

Because I feel like you haven't evaluated my slot at any point after you made your "Reading backwards is a wolf tell" read which is both not a read I believe is accurate and also a weak as fuck first read.

Monstr for the weak approach and being there in a meh capacity. Also the post about trying more as wolf pings badly on my "But if I was wolf I would" ping. (Yes, I do that as town. Shut up.)

Katze because I can't live with someone better than me at lyrical genius around.

I want to prelude that these reads are subject to change with revision and half of them are jokes.

[ladd]

You.

Because of *Spins wheel* Prejudice. Wait no that's not right.

Because I feel like you haven't evaluated my slot at any point after you made your "Reading backwards is a wolf tell" read which is both not a read I believe is accurate and also a weak as fuck first read.


i gotta have the highest omgus per push STATS on MU

but thanks anyway

[Winston Hughes]

how much of the thread had you read when you made this post?

i'd skimmed over the parts up to my first post, and had been following along since then

[EnderWiggin]

i gotta have the highest omgus per push STATS on MU

but thanks anyway

If you can't beat em, join em.

Vote: ladd

[Cape90]

i do agree that monstr/i have a lot of partner equity e t c

why does mafia make this post literally ever?

I also like these two (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828670&viewfull=1#post2053828670) posts (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828671&viewfull=1#post2053828671). Okay and this post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828695&viewfull=1#post2053828695) too ;)

Not to mention they had these similar reads (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828729&viewfull=1#post2053828729) to me.

[nebjiamn]

You (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828465&viewfull=1#post2053828465) are (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828469&viewfull=1#post2053828469) reading (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828621&viewfull=1#post2053828621) the same (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828634&viewfull=1#post2053828634) Winston as I am right (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828619&viewfull=1#post2053828619)?
With all love and respect, please don’t take this as dismissive, but I’m going to need your thoughts on these posts rather than just links to them because that tells me nothing and you’re putting all the onus on me to understand your 2nd strongest wolf read when I’ve already put them in a slightly good pile

[katze]

why does mafia make this post literally ever?

I also like these two (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828670&viewfull=1#post2053828670) posts (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828671&viewfull=1#post2053828671). Okay and this post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828695&viewfull=1#post2053828695) too ;)

Not to mention they had these similar reads (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828729&viewfull=1#post2053828729) to me.

the quoted post is a reference to a different game so im dismissing "why would he write this as maf"

[ladd]

sunbae, can you explain what your thoughts on the cuth/monstr thing were even if you threw them away?

i felt better about this game when I went to sleep

ladd
newcomb
katze

HK
Cuth

cape
Sunbae
Benneh
Zack

i like this more probably tho i kinda feel the #d1alliancetier has a wolf

i don't really like sleep posts anymore, he kinda feels like a tryhard wolf who found an easy villager to bury and look villagery with

i'll be back for a pop in before EoD

#VC

[katze]

i don't really like sleep posts anymore, he kinda feels like a tryhard wolf who found an easy villager to bury and look villagery with

im trying to figure out a way to word this in a way that isnt loaded but...

is there any indication of this being a thought you had before newcomb posted it

[ladd]

im trying to figure out a way to word this in a way that isnt loaded but...

is there any indication of this being a thought you had before newcomb posted it

i didnt even know newcomb posted it

i actually thought of it before going to sleep when he made that post:


i read over capes response to my wallpost and i really dont like it


its the exact same thing i say as a wolf when trying to bury a villager and i thought cape answer was fine

hopefully thats enough proof for you, officer

[katze]

shrug

i cant exactly prove if you read a wallpost or not so fair enough and good night

[ladd]

i don't think sunbae handles my push like this if he is a wolf and knows i am a villager and right

mostly the whole warning his top villas that i may be a wolf pocketing them seems like genuine concern rather than something a wolf would ever think to do for show

and in general i got the impression starting from last night already that he was getting increasingly more frustrated with my push on him (feel free to correct me if i am wrong tho) and holding it back

his wall post seems fine too



I read a couple of monty games on this forums and he seems to have no problems posting as a wolf. can the orgers elaborate on why they think he is a wolf from his 3 posts?

[ladd]

sleep

[Raskolnikov]

Sup friendos.

late to the party but glad to be here tbh.

[Raskolnikov]

gonna read a bit.

In the meantime though, I am going to post IT crowd gifs and you will townread it

[Raskolnikov]

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/WelllitHonestCollie-max-1mb.gif

[Cuthillius]

rask lock v

[Zack]

- There's approximately zero chance I spend time writing a wall post about my thoughts on the Cuth/Monstr thing after already admitting that it was messed up on my end and retracting. You are legally allowed to wolf read me for not doing it. Nobody will stop you. I will silently judge you by thinking "lazy read" if you do though. Do you really want that? It sounds devastating.
I'm really confused at how you went about this. The original read you posted was weird and didn't add up, and you dropped it without any real attempt at explanation afaict and said anyone still caring about is just being lazy. Saying "I messed up" doesn't clear anything up for me. What does that mean? i dont care about a wall, is it not something you can explain in a sentence or two? :dizzy2:


- I kinda think Ladd is a wolf but I will begrudgingly refrain from doing anything about it because the one thing I'm pretty good at concerning werewolf is understanding my place in a threadstate and I know barking up that tree with just get me scoffed at currently. I don't think his approach to me - notably saying I've been so non-committal that it's wolfy because I did it 6 years ago once - is reasonable. On either front. The "good read if it's an accurate representation" front and the "accurate representation of my play so far this game" front. I feel like I've been pretty open about my feelings on people and, quite frankly, feel like I'm one of the people that's been most straight forward about their reads and why they have them (outside of the cuth/monstr thing).

- I think both Newc and Zack are villagers getting pocketed by Ladd. I think the way they've handled this game day is in line with my feelings of villager them. Newcomb's post asking Katze about Cape/Sleep being the main reason there.
not sure why this such a big deal to you, i placed ladd at "barely above null" in a halfway through d1 reads list, which means ~nothing and idk how that is being "pocketed". I feel like I missed something with how confident you seem to be, is there more to it than not liking how he approached you?

My biggest problem with ladd is that his post(s) expressing concern/fear/whatever on me just seemed like kind of fake, but he hadn't done that yet as of this post.


- On a similar front, I have no idea why Zack is so hung up on my post saying I liked the role Visor came up with and thought it was hilarious. Me of all people will be thrilled to pew pew into someone, you know this. I think his handling of it is villagery, just ... incorrect.
Again... not sure what the deal is here. I explained it clearly, and "Zack is so hung up on my post saying I liked the role Visor came up with and thought it was hilarious" is pretty frustrating to read when that is not remotely what I said at all. I said that you saying you hadn't read the setup and making a post that essentially claimed VT seemed bizarrely out of character for you based on my experience, and felt performative.


- Idk, still kinda think Cape is a wolf but I'm trying to give my boy zack some credit on a strong villa read there and giving it some space. I don't mind letting it go for now.
Why are people so down on Cape? I mean I could be wrong and he could be a wolf, but it does seem to me like "pushing on things that look bad vs. pushing on things that actually make someone likely to flip wolf" as Newcomb said, idgi. :shrug: (though I dont want to put words in his mouth and am not sure what his actual read on Cape is; on that note, I agree with Newcomb in that Sleep's tunnel on Cape also makes me uneasy - think they've been cleared a bit too easily).


think I'm just gonna Vote: Monty for now
just for the record, this isn't an ironclad meta-read or anything, it's partly to see how he reacts / light a fire under his bum. (if ladd is a wolf he may have tmi'd monty town in #554 :curtain:)

more generally, v possible we are v/v and having a hard time communicating with each other

also this is somewhat tangential but i think newcomb is probably Just A Villager here

[Zack]

couple of zack's post overnight actually gave me the FEAR

1) calling cuth out for asking too many questions felt level 0

2) the monty push

this is the post i was talking about. like no offense but this seems kind of, well... dumb. :hide: do you really believe this? these two things are giving you the FEAR, seriously?

the cuth post was not very serious (and i thought that was clear given how it was presented, but maybe not)

[Zack]

cuth is asking too many questions

he's been moved to sightly below null

make your own content bronana :furious3:

I'm finding it hard to believe ladd saw this post and thought holy crap, zack might be a wolf!!!

#things that didnt happen

[Zack]

can you write a couple of sentences on who you'd lunch right now and why


You.

Because of *Spins wheel* Prejudice. Wait no that's not right.

Because I feel like you haven't evaluated my slot at any point after you made your "Reading backwards is a wolf tell" read which is both not a read I believe is accurate and also a weak as fuck first read.

Monstr for the weak approach and being there in a meh capacity. Also the post about trying more as wolf pings badly on my "But if I was wolf I would" ping. (Yes, I do that as town. Shut up.)

Katze because I can't live with someone better than me at lyrical genius around.

I want to prelude that these reads are subject to change with revision and half of them are jokes.


i gotta have the highest omgus per push STATS on MU

but thanks anyway


If you can't beat em, join em.

Vote: ladd

is it crazy if I say this feels like a w/w interaction? :crazy:

this is weaksauce for two people who supposedly suspect the other

[Zack]

im trying to figure out a way to word this in a way that isnt loaded but...

is there any indication of this being a thought you had before newcomb posted it

if I say this was a good katze post, will you take me off the bottom of your list? :pirate2:

[Zack]

Cuth looked better pretty much every post they made after my initial post suspecting them


why does mafia make this post literally ever?

I also like these two (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828670&viewfull=1#post2053828670) posts (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828671&viewfull=1#post2053828671). Okay and this post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828695&viewfull=1#post2053828695) too ;)

Not to mention they had these similar reads (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828729&viewfull=1#post2053828729) to me.

see, this is the kind of sequence I like

it shows that he was thinking about the game and people's alignments behind the scenes, and was able to quickly prove it with receipts. Didn't make some grandiose post(s) in the thread announcing his switch on Cuth, but gave a solid earthy explanation of what changed his read when asked.

that said if cuth is a wolf it maybe looks bad for cape

like I said earlier, I could be wrong on Cape but he keeps posting thiings that I find villagy and I'm not seeing the issue with his posts

:creep:

[ladd]

I'm finding it hard to believe ladd saw this post and thought holy crap, zack might be a wolf!!!

#things that didnt happen

i saw that post and your monty push

you don't really push lhf like you did monty as a villager ime, in fact I think 1 of yours (and visor actually) biggest villa tells is that you tend to see the "what if they are a vilager angle" of the so called easy mislunches, like you are doing with cape for example (regardless of whether or not he is a villager)

you going after monty was spooky, then I saw the other orgers thought he was a wolf too so maybe I was missing some meta but from a quick skim of 2 of his games he seems like a perfectly competent wolf so i dont realy see whats up

but i guess I overstimated how much you believe both your monty wolf read on yrou stuff wrt cuth


is it crazy if I say this feels like a w/w interaction? :crazy:

this is weaksauce for two people who supposedly suspect the other

yougotus.gif

[ladd]

update on the STATS

people i "suspected": 4

people who think i am a wolf for reasons related to that: 3

people who havent checked in yet after i suspected them: 1

i am batting a solid 75%, maybe a chance to go for 100% even

[ladd]

im going to slice this first post backwards, for no other reason than i want to save the part i feel strongest about for last, although all of it bothers me

okay, so, a lot of cape's early posting can be summed up as "doesn't get jokes". now, not getting jokes isn't inherently wolfy. but take note of the verbiage here - "a little odd". not only is it hedgy it stops short of actually making a call on my alignment - "odd" does not equate to "wolfy", townies can be "odd". it's a little thing but often wolves tend to avoid directly actually calling anything wolfy.

additionally he says katze's response seems "justified" - what parts of that post seem justified? it's...an obvious joke about voting "sleep" to take a nap. it's messing around, there's

again, not getting a joke is not a crime in and of itself but it doesn't seem to me like he's actually reading what is being said in a critical way

now, running back in time 5 seconds, we have another instance of cape not getting a fairly obvious joke

the problem here is he's only responding to this post with a cookie-cutter, broad brushstroke argument - "busywork". what parts of that post seem like busywork? we don't know, because cape doesn't respond to any of the content within. to me this looks like he's making reads based on form rather than content, which is again wolfy because it's a sign that he's not actually reading the game critically - if he had actually tried to engage with any of the "points" zack made in that post i'd be willing to give credit for being tryhardy even if he missed an obvious joke. but as it is, it doesn't look like he actually tried to meaningfully evaluate the stuff zack was saying, because I think if anyone puts more than two seconds of thought into reading his words they'd say "oh, this is an obvious joke".

as it is, it looks like he saw that it looked like a post by post analysis list and decided to call it busy work and shade it. he didn't stop to actually read it.

this part here is just...super wolfy? "hey guys, surprised no one is calling this wolfy, i mean i dont, but you might?". it's such a bizzre comment to make, like he's tossing out a bit of bait to see if someone will bite, but keeping his own distance from it. the problem is this: if he doesn't believe that sort of thing is a meaningful tell, why bring it up at all?

it just doesn't read like a natural thought at all. when someone doesn't think a post is alignment indicative, they typically don't talk about it. but here he's simultaneously trying to shade the post and distance himself from it. i dont get the sense this is something said by someone who is trying to find wolves.



"i don't see it" in response to an early wolfread push. not inherently bad in and of itself, but it is the kind of thing wolves frequently say in the earlygame - being dismissive of early wolfreads is an easy way to fake content, because all they have to do is disagree with people. wolves rarely are the type to lead a charge on someone so they'll often hold back when someone makes a stretchy case in the early game

i can sense some people probably rolling their eyes at this, and that's fine, it's a very minor point but i still wanted to discuss it because it pinged me. like i said, by itself this isn't a strong point at all because it can easily be said by a villager, but within the body of work i find it problematic.

says nothing, does nothing.

what, exactly, is there to like about this post? it's kind of generically agreeable in that it makes a point about how to play the game, and I agree that some forward momentum is preferable to a tepid, stagnant game, but it doesn't actually give me feelings on newcomb's alignment one way or the other. and again the verbiage of "in a sort of random way" is another statement that doesn't really do anything except to soften the read that follows.



first point, he "doesn't like" a read. but does it mean anything for ladds alignment? he doesn't bother to say. it's easy to agree or disagree with things other people say, but what is harder is to generate your own analysis and thoughts. and what we have is that he is "sort of villagery" (again, more soft language) for "actually the same reasons", which...doesn't make sense at all? it doesn't actually meaningfully address the points ladd is making. why is he villagery for mostly responding to things or "posting just to post"? it's a totally half-baked response, there's nothing in cape's posts that gives a real indicator of why he thinks ender is villagery.

This is a very pedantic sort of dismissal to ender that doesn't really engage with the substance of the argument being made at all. "you said he was putting it forward as if it was a deep read, but it was on one post so it can't be deep at all". which, okay, but he very clearly meant it as a serious read, and cape selectively cuts off the latter parts of his post where ender gets into the more elaborate parts of his thinking about how wolves sometimes try to get too serious too early and hard switch. it doesnt look like hes meaningfully evaluating or considering enders words, just blandly dismissing a point he feels is eay to shoot down. this looks like cape isnt actually trying to read neb or ender. it kind of feeds back into what i said earlier about wolves tending to spend a lot of time in the early game shooting down reads rather than trying to solve.

(fwiw, i did like nebjiamn trying to make a serious accusation early there, and i think the antsiness to move the game forward and disappointment at being engaged with is towny. i didnt really want to respond to the read at the time though because th read itself felt stretchy and it would be more useful to see how the person being accused responds to it rather than saying anything myself. i think dobbys response to it is fine for now. i dont agree with enders take that it could be a wolf play although i understand the reasoning)

this is maybe the most egregious instance of cape's hedgy verbiage - why qualify the read in this way? how can something almost look really wolfy?i can find it understandable only finding something slightly suspicious in the early game, but this just comes across like he's afraid to throw a punch. reads very unnatural. either it's really wolfy or it isn't.

that is to say nothing of how again this is an egregious misreading of katze's post - if he was actually paying attention he'd have noticed the second line talks about a "pasta" and i assume cape is at least familiar enough with the concept of "copypasta" to know what that means.

and again not getting smeone's inside joke is not a crime, but what this again demonstrates is that cape is not really reading posts critically, but selectively, picking and choosing things to comment on. he picks out the first and last lines to attack while missing the part that tells him the bottom part of the post is fake and therefore irrelevant.



again with the verbiage heavy on qualifiers, cape can hardly make a read without distancing himself from it

and again he can't actually bring himself to say how the post was supposed to be an "attempt at doing something". he doesn't engage with the substance at all. zack called something like 90% of the posts to that point wolfy, which is obviously absurd. i dont...get the sense cape was actually reading or evaluating that post in a meaningful way, just glossing it over and assuming it had to have been serious

sleep seems to be making the most nefarious interpretations for ~everything cape says. even obvious wolves dont do as many wolfy things as sleep is accusing cape of doing in 12 hours

tbh knowing who sleep is would help a ton and its kinda lame to sign up on an alt in a game like this

https://media.giphy.com/media/jPAdK8Nfzzwt2/giphy.gif


i read over capes response to my wallpost and i really dont like it

can you go in some detail on what exactly you really don't like?

[Visor]

Tally as of #570 (editing in)

3 Cape90 (Sleep, Katze, Winston)
3 Monty (Zack, Csargo, Sunbae)
2 Monstrdude (Monty, Hollowkatt)
1 Csargo (Cape90)
1 Winston Hughes (Cuthillius)
1 Hollowkatt (Monstrdude)
1 Newcomb (Nebjiamn)
1 Katze (Newcomb)
1 ladd (Enderwiggin)
1 Sleep (Ladd)

Remember, if you do not vote using the Vote: Format with the colon, i aint gonna count it. its in the rules.

[ladd]

vote:sleep

[Cape90]

With all love and respect, please don?t take this as dismissive, but I?m going to need your thoughts on these posts rather than just links to them because that tells me nothing and you?re putting all the onus on me to understand your 2nd strongest wolf read when I?ve already put them in a slightly good pile

When they aren't doing absolutely nothing, their attempts at actually contributing to the game look like they could just be easily faked. Like the question they pose about them asking why you/ladd are slightly above null just look like posts I have seen mafia make

[Cape90]

If I end up going over, just know I'm confident in my towncore this game

Very confident

[Cape90]

My take on Mont is I don't really feel like they are that scummy, nor was their whole complaining about post count pop in thing really all that scummy. I feel like I'm a spicier vote. But I also think a scum Mont world is possible but honestly they feel like Misvote bait to me. Which I have seen thrown around about me but not them

[Cape90]

Least confident wolf read by a long shot is ladd.

Knowing how hit or miss I can be 2 wolves are in my light towns and if there's a wolf somewhere in my towncore, it's benneh

[Raskolnikov]

Gotta say the Mafia stalker can't expect to get much action in this setup. Like, the only thing it can track is the town sorceror, and there's no stopping the town sorceror's last action on N2 without pushing them D2, and there's little point to that. Watching the target of a sorceror is even more useless, since there's never going to be a strategy in pushing a compulsive suicide bomber.

I'm ready for my vesting.

https://i.imgur.com/EeYtIBY.jpg

http://booklikes.com/upload/post/a/6/azure_a6e102f6e292aad30a86eafd33d0a3ed.gif

[Raskolnikov]

Now that Zack's found us, it's getting to be over. He just has to oust one of us and coast on lock.

https://images.gr-assets.com/hostedimages/1423475531ra/13630547.gif

vote : Montmorency

[Raskolnikov]

"playerlist" is code for "katze" right



because we don't have enough information

i believe that voting to execute somebody on day 1 may accidentally kill an innocent villager, voting sleep means we will all have a nice nap and time to get information!


This has swayed and convinced me.

Vote: Sleep

https://i0.wp.com/i.imgur.com/oHh0L.gif

prolly a wolf in these 2, my money is on blade. rofl at katze pushing the "sleep vote vs sleep, the player" joke -intentionnally or not

[Sleep]

Cuth looked better pretty much every post they made after my initial post suspecting them

such as...?

(im sure this is annoying because im being like a math teacher but u need to show ur work b/c im trying to understand ur process)

[Sleep]

an aside but the notion that i would drop a wall case to "appear villagy" as wolf rather than because i wanted to push someone is p. funny. overthinking it. not sure it means anything for the ppl speculating on it (newcomb, katze), i just found it funny

[Raskolnikov]

Sleep: do you go by another name on other forums? (sorry if u posted it already)

[Sleep]

why does mafia make this post literally ever?

I also like these two (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828670&viewfull=1#post2053828670) posts (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828671&viewfull=1#post2053828671). Okay and this post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828695&viewfull=1#post2053828695) too ;)

Not to mention they had these similar reads (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828729&viewfull=1#post2053828729) to me.

ok i feel bad, i asked for examples assuming u werent posting any, didnt expect the examples to come later

- openwolfing is basically nai, i dont get why u would see a joke wolfclaim and go "a wolf never does this"

- what is it u like about those posts? for the first two hes asking some people some questions. the ones to ender are at least kind of pointed but im dubious u can feel theres a real sorting process going on there just based on those...

- for the third post, he writes a lot of words but im not sure it actually says a lot or makes much sense? like im not sure what point hes trying to make about "consensus" reads at all or why it matters? im not sure why hes trying to defend ladd by asking a rhetorical question to ender? ig my problem w/ that post is although hes asking stuff to kind of critique enders thought process, im not sure its really showing solving intent...

- wrt to the similar reads, fair enough ig

[Sleep]

i didnt even know newcomb posted it

i actually thought of it before going to sleep when he made that post:




its the exact same thing i say as a wolf when trying to bury a villager and i thought cape answer was fine

hopefully thats enough proof for you, officer

i mean thats literally a single line, i could have gone at length into why i didnt like it but it would mostly boil down to "tone", i sensed the rest of the thread likely had no appetite for a prolonged back and forth, and i wanted the chance to focus my attention on other things and not have cape spend all his time defendin himself to me. im still actively engaged in trying to sort him/other ppl, im not sure where u get the impression thats the only thing im doing

[Raskolnikov]

Some output from early reading: zack is prolly villa, cuth too. Cape90 feels like too. I see he is wagoned, hype to read about it tbh.

Benneh and newcomb exist, from what I read I prefer the guy going for a "off one post" wolf read on Dobby (Benneh) to the guy openly townreading him for it (newcomb) because TMI. But they are largely null rn. (on reread, I really don't know why I am posting about Benneh and Newcomb since it seems NAI... something something I can't articulate rn)



Also it's prolly best to get ride of Ender sooner than l8r.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3d/c1/10/3dc110d0c509c1531be16247019e486b.gif

[nebjiamn]

is it crazy if I say this feels like a w/w interaction? :crazy:

this is weaksauce for two people who supposedly suspect the other
i don't think it would be the craziest thing, but i very much think ladd's Just a Villager here

i know you're not necessarily talking about #theheat but in this game specifically i don't expect many folks to be going super hard in the paint to justify their wolf reads against eachotehr, at least on d1.

[Raskolnikov]

I'm struggling to parse Cape simultaneously making a wall post about avatar reads and throwing suspicion on people for jokey posts on the first page and a half. Could be wolfy fake suspicion that doesn't flow well or could just be a villager making a shift in seriousness quickly. Maybe someone else has a better take on it.


Also, kind of squinting at Cape's talking about Mont as a "surprised nobody is talking about this cause usually people wolfread it" into saying they don't think that type of read works out very much.

pretty much why I think he is villa. Inconsistencies is > rand v

disclaimer: inconsistencies is not a player of this game.

[Sleep]

tbh knowing who sleep is would help a ton and its kinda lame to sign up on an alt in a game like this
is it really that much of an issue? i signed up with a different username beause haha funny vote sleep meme and its a new site, i figured

if its a ~problem~ i dont mind saying it but i significantly prefer playing as an unknown because i feel like it forces people to engage more honestly with the words in my posts rather than filtering it through some lens based on a preconceived identity they have attached to me, if that makes sense


can you go in some detail on what exactly you really don't like?
before i go into that, i want to ask u this:

u seem to be confident cape is an obvious villager, so much so that ur defending him by attacking me. but the most reasoning i can find for WHY u think that is this:


for the rest of his posting, i am inclined to agree with you. he seems more like a villager who is posting whatever is on his mind and getting in trouble for it than a wolf

expect i dont really villa read him as strongly as you (seem to)
and this is super vague and generic and doesnt really tell me anything about his actual content or why u like it. zack has a post like #565 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828845&viewfull=1#post2053828845) where, ok, i can see the reasoning there, im not sure i agree, but i respect the thoughts, where with u i cant really figure out the reasoning or why ur so determined.

[Sleep]

is it really that much of an issue? i signed up with a different username beause haha funny vote sleep meme and its a new site, i figured it wouldnt be that big a deal

EBWOP

really need to self-edit more

[Raskolnikov]

I am proud to announce sleep is an alt of ur mum:bow:nah it's sorry I will tell it l8r if he agrees :hide:

https://reactiongifs.me/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Whoa-aat-The-IT-Crowd.gif

[EnderWiggin]

Gloomhaven took longer than expected.

But alright lemme just sort this game properly instead of joking around.

[Raskolnikov]

Think Zack's post about Newcomb not feeling robotic makes sense to me and I'm cool rolling with both as light town reads for day 1

Sunbae, was your read on Zack solely based on that comment or did you have other reasons you didn't post?

[nebjiamn]

i still have concerns on newc that maybe kind of align with katze's (part of why i v read katze highly here), but maybe they don't.

i don't want to harp on this too much, because i am extremely unlikely to be able to get newcomb lunched today and even if I could, i wouldn't, as several other of my village reads are saying he's a villager but i at least want my thoughts out in the open

i feel like newc's had a lot of floaty type of posts that could be either alignment but he's also had 2 IMO weak, stretchy type accusations/pokings that made me turn my head.

the first was his response to katze's wolf reading of him and OMGUSing, painting a world wherein katze's internalized a very niche attribute about newcomb's reputation and that katze decided to use that in order to convey a wolf read on him and get credit for it, only for newcomb to become fully aware of this ingrained notion and reverse it on katze in this moment doesn't strike me as very convincing as a thought from v!newcomb.

i realize this is simplifying the totality of newc's read/response but the other parts (katze appearing performative in the read/not conveying a great reason for it) are things that i do believe from newc's POV but i happen to just disagree with from my own about katze's motives and things that I think i vibe with katze on that i can't really convey myself about the rest of/previous newc posts.

the other one is newcomb's post toward csargo about the inclusion of rask. this, for me, is not as big of a thing as the katze stuff, and i realize this wasn't even a full blown (or even half blown?) wolf read of csrago, more clarification, but the levels to decipher that inclusion just gives me creepy vibes/coming from a nefarious pov.

having said all that, newcomb is newcomb and is probably just right on lots of stuff that i'm not even seeing or aware of while i sit around barking up a tree that bears no fruit

[EnderWiggin]

First of all:

Sleep is probably town. There is a minor assumption that probably isn't good but the nitpicky right off the bat is kinda rand!town IMO and I've just liked their content overall.

It was a fun wagon at the start and the memes were great, but honestly like I would not vote there any time soon.

On the other hand, I have reasons to believe this might be Cape's towngame. Or at least that he does several of the things he's being poked about as both alignments. I recently sussed them hard for a similar game and they were green that game.

Caveat that I haven't actually read a wolf game of theirs.

[EnderWiggin]

i still have concerns on newc that maybe kind of align with katze's (part of why i v read katze highly here), but maybe they don't.

i don't want to harp on this too much, because i am extremely unlikely to be able to get newcomb lunched today and even if I could, i wouldn't, as several other of my village reads are saying he's a villager but i at least want my thoughts out in the open

i feel like newc's had a lot of floaty type of posts that could be either alignment but he's also had 2 IMO weak, stretchy type accusations/pokings that made me turn my head.

the first was his response to katze's wolf reading of him and OMGUSing, painting a world wherein katze's internalized a very niche attribute about newcomb's reputation and that katze decided to use that in order to convey a wolf read on him and get credit for it, only for newcomb to become fully aware of this ingrained notion and reverse it on katze in this moment doesn't strike me as very convincing as a thought from v!newcomb.

i realize this is simplifying the totality of newc's read/response but the other parts (katze appearing performative in the read/not conveying a great reason for it) are things that i do believe from newc's POV but i happen to just disagree with from my own about katze's motives and things that I think i vibe with katze on that i can't really convey myself about the rest of/previous newc posts.

the other one is newcomb's post toward csargo about the inclusion of rask. this, for me, is not as big of a thing as the katze stuff, and i realize this wasn't even a full blown (or even half blown?) wolf read of csrago, more clarification, but the levels to decipher that inclusion just gives me creepy vibes/coming from a nefarious pov.

having said all that, newcomb is newcomb and is probably just right on lots of stuff that i'm not even seeing or aware of while i sit around barking up a tree that bears no fruit

... Well now my budding Newcomb case looks like I'm jumping on people sussing him. Lmao.

[EnderWiggin]

Oh also, Katze is town too. Lots of good head noddy posts from em. The snarky response about voting them out to Ladd was a meme about lyrical composition.

[EnderWiggin]

I should just put all the other reads together in one post.

But stretching them out for drama is fun.

But I'll do one post.

[Raskolnikov]

hollowkatt: you can totally sheep me :2thumbsup:

[Sleep]

w/r/t montmorency: i get what people are saying about him complaining about postcount and vanishing, it diminishes the early townping i had on him but im not sure it makes him lock wolf or anything, sometimes ghost a game for weird reasons. i did find it kind of odd that ladds conclusion was "i checked his wolf games and he has no trouble posting as a wolf" because my process was the exact oppoite: i checked the mass effect game from last year and he had no trouble keeping up with that game and giving reads as a villager despite it being significantly higher volume than this one (1k posts on day 1 and we arent close to that pace i dont think)

it feels like kind of backwards reasoning to run a comparison check against someones wolf meta first rather than checking their village games to see if it matches that

but anyway i think if the absence doesnt really fit either established meta for a person then its null to leanscum, but i dont really think voting out someone who hasnt really done anything is an ideal day 1 elim. if he keeps not contributing sure, but id rather give time to majke his alignment more clear

[nebjiamn]

When they aren't doing absolutely nothing, their attempts at actually contributing to the game look like they could just be easily faked. Like the question they pose about them asking why you/ladd are slightly above null just look like posts I have seen mafia make
that's fair, i suppose

but i just tend to take it from a pov of: "if he's going to fake it now, would he really do it on a post about me/ladd being above null and not something more reactive?"

for me the arrow pointed toward "nah" but if yours points elsewhere i can't really fault that. it seems believable that he'd be cocnerned about me and ladd's placement from A Player He Knows with Experience with Us while he's reading us not so favorably

[EnderWiggin]

zack
Honestly, my read on Zack keeps changing. I have felt irked by his constant susses on me, but have agreed with some of his other content. Very much a wibbly wobbly timey wimey read.

nebjiamn
Is have liked their content. Also their initial reactions to the waves I pushed their way have been okay.

cuthillius
They are doing a lot of questioning that doesn't appear to have a point to me? Like especially the way they did the questioning of me. It felt very much like a "Questioning gotcha" where they kept poking for ways to twist words. I'll quote this stuff later.

Ladd
Case pending to an office near you.

Winston Hughes
I like Winston. No particular reasons. Also Winston's early posting like this doesn't ring any alarm bells so meh.

Raskolnikov
??? Where this slot is.

Newcomb
Maybe a case coming to a thread near you soon.

Csargo
There's a black hole on my read here.

EnderWiggin
Obvious scum pls.

Sunbae
I like the vibe. I was pressing earlier to see what he would react when I tried to force him to make a reason up. The whole "Fuck you I give no reason" response was actually what I was hoping for so.

Montmorency
I feel like there's an aura of general sus on Monty. Which generally tends towards being a town thing early. Usually the scum have others defending them in a sideways enough manner that they don't become so thread general.

Dobby
Idk. Free elf probably? I remember like 0 of their posts.

monstrbro
Weak. Like I haven't seen anything from them that feels like a solid take that holds water.

hollowkatt
Their treatment of me is bad. But also I just pocketed them hard as wolf twice in a row. So I'm willing to believe it might just be a river of paranoia remnant.

[EnderWiggin]

Midnight is beating me. When did I become so weak.

[Monstrdude]

Most of the people putting me in their wolfreads are villagers

That being said I still think hollowkat's post about me "saying spicy things for the sake of it" isn't a real thought

[Monstrdude]

At this point though I think over half the game has called me a wolf and if there's not a wolf in there I would be literally floored lmao

[Raskolnikov]

vote: EnderWiggin

[Monstrdude]

A lot of accepting consensus this game from my perspective

[Monstrdude]

vote: EnderWiggin

I don't hate it, not one of the villagiest people that's been wolfreading me

[Monstrdude]

I'll put it this way, the way I see it there are people who are trying to say they have no idea what alignment I am and then people who are trying to push me like it's a foregone conclusion

Anyway I'll have more to say later I intend to not care about this game so I'm only gonna play like 3x a day

[Raskolnikov]

Just vote Ender before leaving though.

When you come back, we will talk about your sense of consensus and also willingness to AtE at 2 votes :) (I am kinda wording this as a joke, but when I have read your content I may come back to this)

[EnderWiggin]

Just vote Ender before leaving though.

When you come back, we will talk about your sense of consensus and also willingness to AtE at 2 votes :) (I am kinda wording this as a joke, but when I have read your content I may come back to this)

What's got you on my case Raskol?

[Monstrdude]

Just vote Ender before leaving though.

When you come back, we will talk about your sense of consensus and also willingness to AtE at 2 votes :) (I am kinda wording this as a joke, but when I have read your content I may come back to this)

Explain how that was AtE or I vote you

[Monstrdude]

Are you trying to make me look bad? What part of that was appealing to emotion

[Monstrdude]

I honestly almost don't care and want to vote you anyway because I'm sick of things like that

I don't care about this game

Thats not ate

If you think this is AtE then perhaps get a class on emotions and their uses

[Raskolnikov]

Most of the people putting me in their wolfreads are villagers

That being said I still think hollowkat's post about me "saying spicy things for the sake of it" isn't a real thought

well u do u but when u post "spicy" because someone outs a light townread 3 pages into the game pretending noone has been, it can certainly raise questions. I don't think you think HK didn't think it, really. if you are villa, relax, otherwise keep going :bow:

[Raskolnikov]

Explain how that was AtE or I vote you

LMAO

[Sleep]

you should have a glass of water and calm down

[Monstrdude]

vote: raskolnikov

See you mid day

[Monstrdude]

you should have a glass of water and calm down

Actually see you after EoD now

[Monstrdude]

I'm so sick of this

Having emotions is not ate

I'm about to get mad for real

[nebjiamn]

Feels off to me

Caveat I don't think I know you that well
monstr, do you know who sleep is?

[Monstrdude]

[Spoiled for unpleasant content. Original, unaltered contents of post are below - GH]

How about all of you go die in a fire

Mafia is the dumbest fucking game in existence

[Monstrdude]

monstr, do you know who sleep is?

I don't care

[Monstrdude]

I hate them as a person

[Sleep]

my unquantified gut level impression of ender is that he seems pretty villagery and i dont rly get why hes being piled onto still, i didnt mind him being pressured early for "vibes" reasons becase thats how the early game goes but since then hes seemed decently solvy, does someone have, like...a snappy argument for why theyre wolf reading him

[nebjiamn]

How about all of you go die in a fire

Mafia is the dumbest fucking game in existence
hey dude, i love you and appreciate you. let's just talk about the game and not this other stuff

[Monstrdude]

[Spoiled for unpleasant content. Original, unaltered contents of post are below - GH]

I hate all of you on a deep and personal level that goes outside the game and I wish bad things on every one of you goodnight

[nebjiamn]

i'm sorry you feel that way my dude

my last post stands and I hope you feel better. please feel free to DM me after the game if you want to talk

[Sleep]

that was way over the top and unnecessary imho and i dont really want to deal with that stuff so im just not going to interact with or deal with monstr at all anymore, sorry

[Raskolnikov]

What's got you on my case Raskol?

your posting obviously

[Raskolnikov]

my unquantified gut level impression of ender is that he seems pretty villagery and i dont rly get why hes being piled onto still, i didnt mind him being pressured early for "vibes" reasons becase thats how the early game goes but since then hes seemed decently solvy, does someone have, like...a snappy argument for why theyre wolf reading him

maybe. I am up to page 7 (also read the last 3 pages live) and didn't see it still. Maybe it will come. Also I felt the urge to vote that read list lol.

[Sleep]

maybe. I am up to page 7 (also read the last 3 pages live) and didn't see it still. Maybe it will come. Also I felt the urge to vote that read list lol.

ig if youre only on page 7 its understandable

[Raskolnikov]

that was way over the top and unnecessary imho and i dont really want to deal with that stuff so im just not going to interact with or deal with monstr at all anymore, sorry

I agree.

[Raskolnikov]

I just wrote a paragraph (imagine, several sentences from me) to get Monstr to better feelings but imo it's not going to happen rereading the last posts lmao.

sadities. We should just blame HK for it. we will

[EnderWiggin]

NEWCOMB CASE (Unless I get to the end of this and delete it because I realise my read is shit.)

First four posts are just memes and questions that are irrelevant to gamestate. The whole "Names from another forum" is mildly sus but for the purpose of this case I will assume them all to be completely NAI as they're irrelevant.

#55 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828302&highlight=#post2053828302)

This partially reads as a buddying attempt, but also it was less than 2 hours in a slowish phase and only 10ish other posts between the two. It feels like an effort to make it look like a big thing over not much. Albeit this is mildly uncharitable.

#59 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828306&highlight=#post2053828306)

This is where I start slightly nursing a sus, but it's weak as fuck and mostly just dislike of the reaction. It does a lot to try over-explaining his like of Benneh's "Starting the game". In fairness, though, my kneejerk reaction is kinda over the top so I'm not going to weigh this as harshly as I want to. It can read as over-explainy for a simple opinion (which is the trap I tried to make Sunbae fall into) but it could also be reaction to my bad reaction.

#173 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828437&highlight=#post2053828437)

Small question, not much I'm saying here. Doesn't look amazing or bad, kinda NAI.

#178 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828442&highlight=#post2053828442)

I admit I actually like this post. Partially because it's about me. Partially because it would be easy for a wolf to go along with this.

#189 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828453&highlight=#post2053828453)

This one is just fair.

I skip the next post for meme reasons.

#194 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828458&highlight=#post2053828458)

This is such a nothing post. Mildly wolfy in the "Saying something for the sake of it rather than to progress thread" kinda way.

#199 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828463&highlight=#post2053828463)

More nothing posts.

#206 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828470&highlight=#post2053828470)

At this point tbh this read contributes very little to discussion, seems obvious, and looks like solving without actually giving much info. This is definite a nosedive as so far Newcomb hasn't actually contributed to town at all.

He does note it as not impactful but anyway.

#208 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828472&highlight=#post2053828472)

Something something jumping on other people's reads tell.

#213 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828477&highlight=#post2053828477)

While I agree with the sentiment, this is a very strong reaction and a continuation of Newcomb's contributions not being difficult or complex.

#218 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828481&highlight=#post2053828481)

This is probably the most meaty read Newcomb has made at this point. Which feels pretty thin lined. I don't agree with the read but I don't find it inherently wolfy so better than previous posts.

#224 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828488&highlight=#post2053828488)

If I squint this is buddying.

But also it's NAI.

#239 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828503&highlight=#post2053828503)

This is a sudden switch on to Katze, via purely omgus reasons.

There's a lot of words he puts around it to make it seem better, but it's a slide back into low effort content for wolfy.

#244 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828508&highlight=#post2053828508)

This is probably my favourite wolf ping. It's not a wolf tell by itself but wolves often feel the need to over-justify weak reads. No one would've blinked at the OMGUS without an in depth explanation, but Newcomb felt the need to justify it.

#278 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828542&highlight=#post2053828542)

NAI post.

#280 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828544&highlight=#post2053828544)

This post just rankles at me. It's all like "Buddying???" about people they haven't strongly townread. Feels like the start of a pocket attempt.

#328 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828590&highlight=#post2053828590)

Another case of a weak post about pocketing. Self-referentials about pocketing is actually surprisingly often made by people literally pocketing.

#343 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828607&highlight=#post2053828607)

This is just literally undermining a possible village thought about someone starting to trend towards consensus townread. Also the first time that Newcomb has even thought about Sleep. The previous interactions have mostly been in context of how people are reading Cape.

#389 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828656&highlight=#post2053828656)

First meaty post from Newcomb and it is a strong reaction to Katze talking about how Newcomb talks around people he susses.

The query about Cape vs Sleep is fine.

I don't exactly like this post but I'd be stretching to call this wolfy fmpov

#489 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828765&highlight=#post2053828765)

Meme NAI.

#494 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828770&highlight=#post2053828770)

THIS feels opportunistic. I'll note he explicitly says "Ladd's worldview fits mine most." and those reads came after ladd had already said them.

(Also if this is wolf this probably clears Ladd which means I was just hissy fitting at Ladd over a sus on me which is kinda lol but anyway.)

Like at this point he's basically saying that he walked up to a wolf!ladd and jumped right into that pocket himself.

But doing that weird thing where he's explicitly had a sideways sus on Sunbae but also "vibing" with Sunbae's thoughts in a pockety manner.

Like this is the "OMG ME TOO" moment of pocketing.

#506 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828782&highlight=#post2053828782)

Man, Sunbae seems to be important to interact with for Newcomb..........

#515 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828791&highlight=#post2053828791)

This is another really specific question.

I want to say Rask/Newcomb w/w vibes but maybe I'm jumping the gun a little there.

#530 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828806&highlight=#post2053828806)

Again, nothing particularly outstanding.

------

I was half worried I'd get like half an hour into this case and realise it was towny but no.

No.

I'd say this is definitely my strongest wolf read right now.

Go read through the posts and then NewComb's ISO. I will happily take criticism on this if you have it, but I kinda believe myself on this one.

Vote: Newcomb

[EnderWiggin]

maybe. I am up to page 7 (also read the last 3 pages live) and didn't see it still. Maybe it will come. Also I felt the urge to vote that read list lol.

Well Rip me trying to out my reads and thoughts then.

[EnderWiggin]

Like, nothing Newcomb has put in thread has been outstanding and none of his reads feel very much like they're sticking beyond what they need.

[EnderWiggin]

I had two other ISOs I wanted to do but it's closing on 1am and I'm debating just sleeping and thinking about it before EOD.

[Sleep]

im looking at this now but can you kind of give me a summary/thesis of why you think he's a wolf rather than a bunch of points relating to individual posts?

[Sleep]

Like, nothing Newcomb has put in thread has been outstanding and none of his reads feel very much like they're sticking beyond what they need.

sorry i should have refreshed before replying, this was what i wanted

[Sleep]

ig the most concerning thing to me wrt newcomb is the way being pressured by katze seemed to stop him in his tracks

i didnt think the reaction itself was ai, because i can see it coming from either camp, either legitimate villager paranoia about a push or wolf getting on the defensive and trying to discredit their accuser, but what concerns me is that he mostly got wrapped up in biting back at katze and doesnt really have substantial/coherent thoughts on the rest of the thread, theres some stray commentary but it doesnt look like hes analyzing other people much or has reads he cares very much about


(i realize im also trending toward sussing the people who sus me, which is almost never correct, because, like, i doubt the entire wolf team tries to powerwolf onto me day 1 or w/e but thats just kind of where my mind goes rn)

[EnderWiggin]

ig the most concerning thing to me wrt newcomb is the way being pressured by katze seemed to stop him in his tracks

i didnt think the reaction itself was ai, because i can see it coming from either camp, either legitimate villager paranoia about a push or wolf getting on the defensive and trying to discredit their accuser, but what concerns me is that he mostly got wrapped up in biting back at katze and doesnt really have substantial/coherent thoughts on the rest of the thread, theres some stray commentary but it doesnt look like hes analyzing other people much or has reads he cares very much about


(i realize im also trending toward sussing the people who sus me, which is almost never correct, because, like, i doubt the entire wolf team tries to powerwolf onto me day 1 or w/e but thats just kind of where my mind goes rn)

I hadn't even thought of that. Can I sticky note that to my case?

[EnderWiggin]

I guess my biggest issue with NewComb is absolutely the way his reads don't seem to stick at all. Also a few times when I felt like he needed to justify himself.

[EnderWiggin]

Also it's past 1am so g'night. I'll be up again closer to EOD.

[Cuthillius]

benneh ender katze sunbae (ladd)

very opposed to any of these people today aorn

[GeneralHankerchief]

Moderator note: For purposes of full transparency, Monstrdude has been tempbanned from the thread until I confer with Visor. We should (hopefully) come to a full resolution in time for EOD.

Do not respond to or interact with this post, play nice, have a good time, etc etc.

[Dobby]

Hi I took the promise of a chill game too literally and didn't spend any time on this yesterday

I'm here now though for my classic catch up and dip

[Dobby]

Is it possible to iso people here because i don't seem to be able to can it

[Raskolnikov]

Is it possible to iso people here because i don't seem to be able to can it

Go to the forum page and click on the number of posts in this thread. A popup window with ISO links should appear.

25406

[Sleep]

im just kind of freeform working through reads right now on ppl i havent talked much about, going to drop what i have so far

zack: my impression of zack as ive been reading the game is that his posts have been a good blend of lighthearted humor and solving and i tend to associate that more with villagers, its a thing thats had for wolves, they usually end up either overly jokey or overly serious. i dont really vibe with his reads but the explanations have been decently plausible to me

on rereading his iso theres nothing that necessarily stands out as brilliantly towny to me so this is largely a gut feel read but i think hes all right for now

nebjiamn: with most of the posts he makes i just get the solid impression the dude is solving. early tryhardy thing was decent but he hasnt really let up since then. stuff like #322 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828586&viewfull=1#post2053828586) is like, okay this is a pretty intricate thought process or #591 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828873&viewfull=1#post2053828873) where hes really getting in and analyzing newcomb, and the posts where hes questioning cape feel like a legit attempt to solve his alignment. i think ben is very likely to be a villager.

csargo: hasnt had many posts, but just kind of feels like a non-tryhardy villager doig his own thing. the zeroing in on montmorency makes sense in how people as villagers tend to focus more on solving people theyre familiar with. its enough for a townlean.

katze: i havent had thoughts on katze but the way she expressed her read on newcomb feels at least decently likely to be a real read to me, theres believable reasoning behind it and the way shes pestering about it feels like shes sunk her teeth into something she believes in and wont let go. i think in general i tend to view someone suspecting a...high degree of difficulty target as usually being a villager. also think the reflexive "contrarian for the sake of being contrarian" interrogation of ender in #368 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828632&viewfull=1#post2053828632) feels villagy, playing the uno reverse card on cuth in #414 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828683&viewfull=1#post2053828683) i like because it shows wanting to hold him accountable and try to make him produce opinions rather than simply asking good questions. in general i think katze has been pretty all right so far, i know shes a good wolf but i havent found anything sus about her.

Sunbae: so far i feel like sunbae has been the player in the game whos had the most similar perspective to me, woring from memory at least. i know people made a big deal about his first post about not knowing the setup and were like "omg fake" to it, whuch is kind of a funny thing to me - i feel like mafia players are reflexively primed to call derps fake even though the rario of real derps to fake derps is pretty high, imo. i didnt personally think anything of it myself, i feel like reading too deep into that sort of thing just sends you down the rabbit hole too much. i thought his response to the early pressure was ~okay, didnt make too much of it.

i did think him adding me to a towncore with zack when i (jokingly) called zack lock town for a (very cool) pirate emoticon post was kind of weird but dont make much of it. the tripping over himself w/r/t cuth/monstr is a weird thing but sometimes villagers have weird thought processes, ive tunneled someone for walking back a read on me they couldnt back up and they flipped v, and i feel like as wolf he just makes something up to justify the read rather than walking it back?

it feels like im makign a lot of excuses for him as im writing this but im trying to shape my unquantified feelings into something substantive and my feeling is that hes not wolfy. this is the type of read i often get bit in the ass on where i shield someone just on gut but w/e its day 1

the "i think you're getting pocketed" mindset is #312 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828576&viewfull=1#post2053828576) is something i see as pretty villagery. the stream of consciousness in #486 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828762&viewfull=1#post2053828762) also just feels very believable and authentic to me, prob the towniest post hes made

[Dobby]

Benneh's post #42 I took as a meme but I guess it worked to get some people into the game?

Sunbae calling themselves bad in #47 is a lie

ladd entering the game with #63 where he pops out a list of 5 reads is pretty uh let's call it impressive but my gut is poking at me to tell you i slight w lean that because it's... pretty much based on rvs stuff and dishing out reads or even a list like that feels more like "i should be in character so let me do this yeeeee". But yeah i blame my gut for this one.

EnderWiggins post #69 (nice) also had me thinking, because it's talking about how wolves usually behave early on but i feel like it's only situationally applicable and very much a "this is the consensus thought on how wolves play" but also, in a playerlist like this, pretty much everyone can just play the system and statements like that just end up being... words tbh.

[Raskolnikov]

i think monstr might be in the category of people who approach mafia in a similar enough way to me as wolves in particular that i have a hard time actually figuring him out

i don't know who else is in that category off the top of my head but monstr is that's for sure

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ChubbyLeftAvians-size_restricted.gif

[Dobby]

Go to the forum page and click on the number of posts in this thread. A popup window with ISO links should appear.

25406

oh wow thanks

i also changed my profile picture but apparently i needed to change my avatar as well WEH

we good now i think

[Raskolnikov]

@cuthilius: what did you mean in that post? you can't read monstr because?

[Raskolnikov]

@cuthilius: what did you mean in that post? you can't read monstr because?
Cuthillius

[Dobby]

zack with the wisdom in #77 tbh, i kinda also agree with his take on newcomb in #80, zack stonks looking good tbh.

cape and csargos posts regarding katzes pasta post made me giggle a little.


the reads on him were hedged in a jokey sort of way (that i think is typical of early game and not really alignment indicative) but i assume the sentimen behind them is at least somewhat real or they wouldn't express it

well i can go into all the problems i have with the stuff he posted but i don't want to explain it just yet

imma quote this because it was my first interaction and this post came after i last left the thread.

it really rubs me the wrong way (im using english expressions that ive heard but never used so be nice to me if i write weird stuff). They weren't really hedgy, and the "i'll explain later" is usually also code words for "i won't but you will all have forgotten so get dabbed on"

zack's post was this:


Cape90 is probably town

I can tell by the pixels

:rtwyes:

ender's post was this


I'm gonna take a vague guess on Cape town actually.

*Throws dart at board and misses*

So, maybe, maybe i can see it re ender, but it just feels like the type of read you make that looks good until someone actually looks into it, idk might be me overdoing it (look im being hedgy :wowee: )

[Raskolnikov]

:bullseye: better emotes
:bullseye: better multiquote function
:bullseye: chill games where people aren't mad at everyone by mid day 1 for daring to wolf read them


the org goat

this post made me laugh smh. (org goat :bow:)

[Dobby]

its so tempting to click the edit post and bold those names :(

[Dobby]

I kind of want to <drop the shield> on Dobby for day 1 just due to the fact that I think they've been forced to be on the defensive a lot early in recent games and it's caused both struggles in getting rolling and lack of enjoyment from being in that position all the time. I also think Dobby is the type of player that can be a big boon if we let him get settled down some.

aaaaa

So, for those who don't know. I can't read Sunbae really, and Sunbae ends up pocketing me in every game we play. Like, the big I trust you with everytihng i have, and then I get played. Posts like this is why. I have been hating d1 in my most recent games, which are basically all mashes, because I've been getting shit for just being absent (work, life, stuff) majority of d1 and then being 10k posts behind and I actively choose to not read back and try to make up reads so i look good, rather than just start from wherever i join the game and hope to be an assett later on in the games. And this is the type of thing I expect nobody to notice at all but myself, because, why would they?

So like, this is word by word exactly the post that makes me go take me im yours (not in a nasty way) but it's Sunbae so it scares me and gives me ptsd tbh

dammit sunbae

[Raskolnikov]

zack with the wisdom in #77 tbh, i kinda also agree with his take on newcomb in #80, zack stonks looking good tbh.

cape and csargos posts regarding katzes pasta post made me giggle a little.



imma quote this because it was my first interaction and this post came after i last left the thread.

it really rubs me the wrong way (im using english expressions that ive heard but never used so be nice to me if i write weird stuff). They weren't really hedgy, and the "i'll explain later" is usually also code words for "i won't but you will all have forgotten so get dabbed on"

zack's post was this:



ender's post was this



So, maybe, maybe i can see it re ender, but it just feels like the type of read you make that looks good until someone actually looks into it, idk might be me overdoing it (look im being hedgy :wowee: )

Well Sleep did come back to it. (I disagree about the read though but hey, he is better than me :p)

Personally these two posts you quoted felt different, like Zack's one is clearly a gut read (hightlighted by jokey comment on the pixels) while the second looks like more cautiously crafted, made to be able to pivot out of it. "vague guess" is already a weird wording, but adding "*Throws dart at board and misses*" feels wolfy to me.

I don't know how to express it but Zack's read feels carelessly outed, Ender's one not.

[Sleep]

imma quote this because it was my first interaction and this post came after i last left the thread.

it really rubs me the wrong way (im using english expressions that ive heard but never used so be nice to me if i write weird stuff). They weren't really hedgy, and the "i'll explain later" is usually also code words for "i won't but you will all have forgotten so get dabbed on"
ur in for a surprise

[Winston Hughes]

This is the second time I've seen you with Zack at the bottom of your reads in a game we've been in together. You like to do this often or just specific to those to games? (The other was representative democracy)

in contrast to other players in my lists, zack's angelity and pimpsomeness are not necessarily reflective of his townfullness or scumiosity

there are more sophisticated and disturbing formulae in play here - truths writ between lines that no sane human can or should ever hope to separate

[Raskolnikov]

Winston, is it OK if I TR you because you posted that joke about you wife?

[Sleep]

maybe im a sucker for recency bias but i think both rask and dobbys catchups have felt towny so far

[Raskolnikov]

Because I don't think Cuth/Monstr work together

https://c.tenor.com/_hC2uFXOPgAAAAAM/the-it-crowd-it-crowd.gif

(smh baffled on associative reads based on a lockwolf that early)

[katze]

morning

skimmed a catchup, main impression is that raskol is like, a league above the last time i played with him (swag city, he was mafia) so he's probs a villager

skipped the newcomb wolfcase because i'm kinda leaning towards not killing him today even if i think he has high enough mafia equity, for #raisins

also now that the game ended i was hosting a sorc17 on MU and cape was p largely suspected in the earlygame for iffy reasons and imo was super villagery on the day he died, mbe he was townier cuz he had a vest buuuuuut it's part of why i also kinda dont wanna kill him today either

except my vote is apparently still on him

unvote: Cape90

ill figure out where it goes later

[Dobby]

benneh's post #128 is similar to the thoughts i just expressed on Sleep, but for kind of similar reasons


By the way sorry for the pbp catchup thing i'm doing, i know it's clogging up the thread but i'm trying to make it so it consists of like, relevant stuff.

i don't like the robotic read thing on newcomb because i feel like it's a bit too simple to use as a v read thing (see p#130)

again benneh echoing my thoughts in p#131



Yeah I can. He feels stilted, like his content is forced, and that he's struggling to get into the groove of the game.
I tend to ego solve and compare what people are doing to what I'd be doing in their positions. This would tangentially apply to cape as well tbh:
If I were a wolf in this player list I'd be extremely concerned with making the towniest posts I could make and trying to fit in with the overall flow of the game so as not to get caught out immediately. Unfortunately when I do that I tend to be really obvs a wolf as I'm basically trying too hard. Ender (and Cape) feel like they're trying too hard.

The downside to ego solving is that other people are not me (I know, this is a shocking revelation) and don't necessarily react to things the same way I would. This isn't stopping me from making the read.



And before someone asks, my "no chop" vote is totally legit. This is a player list I am going to struggle to read and seeing who dies over night if we don't chop anyone might help in solving. Otherwise I'm likely going to just sheep someone I town read that I perceive is smarter than I am, or be on some weird vanity wagon at the end of the day.
So I figured I'd throw out not chopping as an option, see what people think of that, and go from there.

and yeah I'm being serious

my thoughts on this is also a tough thing to explain but i feel like there's actually some weight to it.

it's easy to get like, tunnelled in your approach of reading someone, almost confbiasing. Like. Okay, first thing i think when i read ender's post is just this, he does seem to try to force out content, and then i can easily poop out words that add to the initial case i made to make it have some weight to it. This type of read is also... Easily fakeable. It's a tool i use as a wolf, because it's an easy way to play as mafia that looks really towny, and like you've done WORK, and it's a really hard thing to identify as wolfy and push. I feel like this whole post smells of that kind of thing. Add to it the last segment which kind of is a bit hedgy to cover for eventualities where Ender who based on what i've seen now, might very well be an early chop.

So yeah my thoughts on Ender aorn if i'm trying to decide if he's faking it or it's a personality/style of playing thing, is that it seems genuine enough for now and because of it being impossible (unless you know him really well, which i don't but also lolmeta) to judge which one it is, it's also something that a legit read shouldn't be based on. And the read HK is making here is making me :fry: way more tbh.

im not gonna tldr that because it was hard enough to word and prolly still doesnt make sense.

I think monstr is fairly clearly town (i isod him out of curiosity ofc) but i dont want to talk any more about him unless he comes back or smth.


kat's post p#144 is weh as well, specifically the "if alive past d1 then :fry:", because it feels out of character and also the addendums make it a non-read tbh, idk lol i can't wrap my head around it.

i agree with like half of ladd's reads in p#151

p#158 is a cheap read from me but i don't think sunbae makes this specific type of post as wolf but i also know it's a me strat as wolf to look towny and i did it in the previous games that sunbae mentioned as well (i was town) meaning like, they're well aware of it being a tool to make people go "hey this is towny" so i take it all back, this post is nai :wowee:

i feel like most of these things im writing would lead to some cool discussion if i didnt write them a day after which is kinda sad.


just some comments on p#181 - townies can be wolfy, in fact, they're usually more wolfy than wolves if they're sorta experienced imo :p And like, looking at the post, it's not.... trying to evaluate the alignment of cape. It's trying to make a case on why cape is wolfy. And that's. Not wolfy (kekw) per se, but it's definitely something that I want to point out to Sleep so that if they're ACTUALLY trying to solve, i'd like a post naming "good" things cape has done as well, because I'm sure you'll find some.

I'm interpreting most of what you say in different ways, and it's kind of... idk, similar to the thoughts on hollowkatt i wrote above. It's too ambitiously trying to do something that falls flat because it's just too extreme in one direction. Sure, town tunnels are definitely a thing, but this, at this stage is a bit wut for me.


i've been doing a lot of dobby mafia theorizing here but there's also something to say about a playstyle where you throw out sus in a lot of directions/being the aggressor, leads to you automatically getting a central role in the direction the game takes, rather than being one taking a defensive stance. This is best done by doing it in a discrete manner. Like, if i bake in one sentence implying i've got my eyes on person x, without making it a full-blown push, person x will be more inclined to show why they're town to please the other player, and it automatically lifts the "discrete aggressor" to a bit higher role in the game hierarchy.

[Raskolnikov]

Sleep: why? (what did u find towny?)
katze: well not having JC using each of his posts to call me a wolf here makes my life easier :hide: why did u want to kill cape earlier?

[Dobby]

Well Sleep did come back to it. (I disagree about the read though but hey, he is better than me :p)

Personally these two posts you quoted felt different, like Zack's one is clearly a gut read (hightlighted by jokey comment on the pixels) while the second looks like more cautiously crafted, made to be able to pivot out of it. "vague guess" is already a weird wording, but adding "*Throws dart at board and misses*" feels wolfy to me.

I don't know how to express it but Zack's read feels carelessly outed, Ender's one not.

yeah they're different, but neither falls under what sleep is stating i think.

[Dobby]

ur in for a surprise

poggies

[Dobby]

Sleep: why? (what did u find towny?)
katze: well not having JC using each of his posts to call me a wolf here makes my life easier :hide: why did u want to kill cape earlier?

i'll probably get to it but is sleep jc? because then a lot of what i just wrote is not accurate anymore

[Dobby]

ehh, how often do you see a wolf who notices their teammate made a wolfy post, notices no one calling it out, and then makes it a point to draw attention to the post but also not push on it? it's really written in a way where he's positioned to get credit off a motnmorency w flip. not saying its impossible, but i dont really see it

but im also just not going to get deep into worldbuiding on day 1, too many conditionals and the whole thing falls apart if ur wrong on one person

mafia is basically a game of egos and i could write 10 posts about why i think a specific post of yours is wolfy and i'll bet that maximum 2 people would open up that post and read it and associated interactions and try to see if my approach to the post makes sense. It's basically a freebie for later stages if your teammate dies

[Raskolnikov]

i'll probably get to it but is sleep jc? because then a lot of what i just wrote is not accurate anymore

nope (imo). I don't think he claimed but I am 99.99% sure of who he is

[katze]

kat's post p#144 is weh as well, specifically the "if alive past d1 then :fry:", because it feels out of character and also the addendums make it a non-read tbh, idk lol i can't wrap my head around it..

i think ur reading that post wrong

it's like, i typically try to avoid pushing/publicly strongly suspecting certain players on D1 because like. ladd replied to it earlier and said my treatment of newcomb was similar to my treatment of him in the poisoner game we were v/v in, i think its close enough. i thought ladd was wolfy D1 of that game but didn't reallllly say too much about it beyond a few offhanded comments, i think at one point i flat out admitted i was pretending to townread him

and then he died n1



Sleep: why? (what did u find towny?)
katze: well not having JC using each of his posts to call me a wolf here makes my life easier :hide: why did u want to kill cape earlier?

fair enough with jc, lmao

still think the gap is noticeable

also i never explicitly wanted cape dead i just jumped on the wagon to see what'd happen (was in response to sleeps case which i found compelling enough to apply pressure to the cape 90)

[katze]

only dobby and benneh are allowed to open this spoiler

hehe poopoo

[Dobby]

I think this is the part where I'm supposed to say something like, "Katze's the kind of player who lacks the testicular fortitude to poke at me like this as a wolf."

https://c.tenor.com/OoUxaidX2q0AAAAM/surprise-doakes.gif

Vote: Katze

i really want to say the katze focus on newcomb is really weird (especially with the hedgy, for me questionable stuff i pointed out earlier) and kinda wolfy in itself, but lets see how it evolves i guess

[Dobby]

i think ur reading that post wrong

it's like, i typically try to avoid pushing/publicly strongly suspecting certain players on D1 because like. ladd replied to it earlier and said my treatment of newcomb was similar to my treatment of him in the poisoner game we were v/v in, i think its close enough. i thought ladd was wolfy D1 of that game but didn't reallllly say too much about it beyond a few offhanded comments, i think at one point i flat out admitted i was pretending to townread him

and then he died n1




fair enough with jc, lmao

still think the gap is noticeable

also i never explicitly wanted cape dead i just jumped on the wagon to see what'd happen (was in response to sleeps case which i found compelling enough to apply pressure to the cape 90)

i think thats how i interpreted that post though

poopoo indeed

btw do i need to hyperlink to make the postnums link the actual post because thats not going to happen

[Winston Hughes]

Winston, is it OK if I TR you because you posted that joke about you wife?

no, absolutely not

:girlslap:

[katze]

i think thats how i interpreted that post though

poopoo indeed

btw do i need to hyperlink to make the postnums link the actual post because thats not going to happen

well you specifically said "if alive past d1 then :fry:" which i dont really think is accurate but i might have just misread what you read that as (since i thought you thought i was saying 'if theyre alive d2 they're mafia')

it's more like, in most games if newcomb is in the playerlist and is town then hes p fuckin likely to die n1, if i suspect him d1 then it's arguably counterintuitive for me to really talk about because like. he's probably dying if im wrong and say nothing but if im wrong and tunnel it then it might just warp the game around us in a way that's really bad for the game

idk, it's a thing i do most games so i don't rly care if you agree or disagree with it

also yeah i think u need to hyperlink to get the effective same as typing p#[num] on MU

[Dobby]

Not a super impactful read but I do think if cape = w and especially if zack also= v then Sleep's like never ever a wolf. Being the second person to jump on this stuff after zack, while showing a pretty big awareness of cape's position in the thread - especially that zack kind of jokey townread him - gives him like the perfect ultra sweet opportunity to double down on a bus or pre-bus, instead he's got a very natural post here where he's more focused on the reactions to cape instead of laying out the problems he has with the post. As w/w with cape here he's really really gonna want those problems on the record, and not as like the 4th or 5th person to jump on it.

would be very ballsy to post that as w/w yes but if youre referring to the big wall case thing as natural etc then nah i kinda strongly disagree

[Winston Hughes]

Winston, is it OK if I TR you because you posted that joke about you wife?

also, it wasn't a joke

and... oh shit she's reading over my shoulder

everybody hide

:creep:

[Raskolnikov]

no, absolutely not

:girlslap:

correct answer Mr McDuke :bow:

[katze]

also, it wasn't a joke

and... oh shit she's reading over my shoulder

everybody hide

:creep:

tell her i said hi

[Raskolnikov]

also, it wasn't a joke

and... oh shit she's reading over my shoulder

everybody hide

:creep:

yeah but it made me laugh because we are in for the same joyfull moments (she is still around right?)

[Dobby]

well you specifically said "if alive past d1 then :fry:" which i dont really think is accurate but i might have just misread what you read that as (since i thought you thought i was saying 'if theyre alive d2 they're mafia')

it's more like, in most games if newcomb is in the playerlist and is town then hes p fuckin likely to die n1, if i suspect him d1 then it's arguably counterintuitive for me to really talk about because like. he's probably dying if im wrong and say nothing but if im wrong and tunnel it then it might just warp the game around us in a way that's really bad for the game

idk, it's a thing i do most games so i don't rly care if you agree or disagree with it

also yeah i think u need to hyperlink to get the effective same as typing p#[num] on MU



the post is serious despite a majority of it being a copypasta - i suspect newcomb atm and my general approach to players like newcomb (the first line) is to ignore that for at least day 1 becasue they're likely to be NKed by wolves if town+townread - but uh. when i look at the playerlist it's like 90% players who that'd apply to so i'm kind of uncomfortable with it


you state it yourself that because of the playerlist it's kind of a null argument, aren't you? also squeezing in the part about the pasta feels like, idk, i have a hard time seeing how you're trying to make a serious argument out of this

[Raskolnikov]

gonna take a break from the thread to make dinner etc... so you won't enjoy my impactful posts for a while. For reference, I am wanna vote within {Ender/Sunbae/Monty} rn. Not sure I posted about Sunbae already but can maybe expand later.

[Zack]

I guess my biggest issue with NewComb is absolutely the way his reads don't seem to stick at all.

I don't understand what this means

[katze]

you state it yourself that because of the playerlist it's kind of a null argument, aren't you? also squeezing in the part about the pasta feels like, idk, i have a hard time seeing how you're trying to make a serious argument out of this

(yes thats the point thats why im willing to push on newcomb d1) dont think this argument will help either of us, so fair enough

[Dobby]

the latter

I would not dare converse with you in anything other than the highest quality Spongebob gifs

https://i.imgur.com/6V4k9uj.gif

i hate that this made me laugh

[Sleep]

just some comments on p#181 - townies can be wolfy, in fact, they're usually more wolfy than wolves if they're sorta experienced imo :p And like, looking at the post, it's not.... trying to evaluate the alignment of cape. It's trying to make a case on why cape is wolfy. And that's. Not wolfy (kekw) per se, but it's definitely something that I want to point out to Sleep so that if they're ACTUALLY trying to solve, i'd like a post naming "good" things cape has done as well, because I'm sure you'll find some.
i mean, hm, that is more or less true to an extent. the thing is, im a very instinctual/gutty player who atruggles with more in-depth analysis, when i do something like that im trying to express the things that pinged mein an explicable form. i believe that direct pressure is a useful tool for reading people, because it forces reactions both from the person being pressured and other observers. i think if the read is expressd in a tepid, half-hearted way ("oh it's just a gut read"), that is significantly more likely to get ignored and i dont want to be ignored.

now the danger of pushing so aggressively like this is getting confirmation biased, and im well aware of that, ive fallen into that trap many times before. so sort of recognize what ur saying to me here. however, i dont really want to...force myself into looking at his posts and telling myself how they could be villagery. what i am doing is trying to question him and see if i can find reasoning that seems villagy from him, and remaining open to hearing the perspective of others who are reading him as a villager, and trying to understand why. right now im about to take a look at his iso in the game katze mentioned to see if its simiar (altho i have grumbles about meta i wont get into here)

im not going to lie, i still find a lot of the stuff hes done wolfy but right now im in the process of broadening my view of the game rather than continuing to harp on cape

[Sleep]

cape in this other sorc games seems less awkward/more solvey even early on, he has real meat to his posts that im not really getting here, i am tunneled ig, im not going to keep harping on it tho

[Dobby]

i'm very comfortable with calling cape strong v at this point and just making sure to look back in a day or two

i kinda agree with this fwiw and i think cuth's posts have looked pretty towny for cuth


👍

currently thinking it's best for both of you (@EnderWiggin primarily) to focus on other avenues than eachother

ender: i think HK is p villagery and think your read on him is... it kinda feels like you feel obligated to have A Read there in a similar vein to how i feel when i play with 1-2 FoLers in a playerlist? i dunno. i think you're wrong, and it's souring my view on you



fair enough?, i won't bother speculating further then and if i read you wrong ill blame it on you secretly being some elite player 😹


Newcomb:

i'm not so much interested in like... convincing you that you're a wolf, nor am i interested in you convincing me that i'm a wolf. obviously that's not going to go anywhere regardless of either of our alignments.

my main reason for asking you to engage with that read more was... well, two reasons, one is selfish and preflippy. the other being that i want you to lay it all out at once and i want to read it and see if i Believe that you Genuinely Wolfread Me? i don't intend on really extending it beyond me feeling that out. i don't want it to, nor do i plan to let it really eat up the thread



i assume this is referring to post 221, maybe 144 if you want to stretch that phrasing to the limit, but idk bout that one. regardless: yeah, sure. i think it's a stylistic thing, i kinda disagree with this being A Wolftell?, and i know that isn't rly a productive argument either.

however, #159 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828423&viewfull=1#post2053828423) exists, and i think that is very much so the opposite of that? from reading your response to me i'm not really surprised you never directly address that post, but i'd still like you to?

and while i'm at that, to further clarify post 221: i made that post because every post you had made on that page just... either felt surface level or hedgy or a bit of both in ways i continued to dislike from you. your two post response to hollowkatt was what sealed the deal for me, because your response to the no-execute proposal just felt insanely exaggerated (and also missed one of the bigger problems with voting no-exe) while your next post legitimately looks word for word like a post i wrote in my first mafia game ever lol. plus the two hollowkatt posts you're replying to are basically next to eachother and replying to both separately is kinda weh but i concede that this is p likely to be NAI

and yeah i could say all of this in post 221 but that's not rly how i roll and i also kind of wanted a sanity check more than anything else and if someone was like "yeah i agree" and then listed what i said in the above paragraph i'd be like "damn that's just a villager" and probably ride that clear for the entire game.



yeah i mean, i already flat out said that i am 100% not a wolf who'd tremble in fear seeing your name in the playerlist, and i strongly doubt you don't know that given... awkwardly motions towards the finale

but meh. part of what i said earlier to zack(iirc) was that i feel like you're relying on things that are Technically True Objectively. i read this line from you and i'm like "yeah regardless of his alignment this is probably true!" and that doesn't fill me with much confidence wrt you genuinely believing you've (as a villager) caught me in some act as opposed to me fitting a preconceived notion that you (as a wolf) can make approximately fit, i guess



for the time being i'm pretty much entirely willing to discount w/w

i personally think it's very likely v on sleeps side, i think it's a particular kind of village nitpickiness and i personally don't really think it comes from the mindset of "a wolf who is trying to bury a villager"... i typed out a few reasons why but i realize that at this stage of the game i don't really think anyone would ever write a wallpost along the lines of "cape is 100% lack woalf and all of these small things are damning and never done by villagers, lmao"

still believe it's pretty likely to come from a villa tho, and if sleep does end up flipping mafia i'd assume one or two of his bros at the least were already under heat and the cape case was a way to divert it or keep himself out of the fire. or both.

so that leaves v/v or v(sleep)/w(cape). personally i don't think cape has been very villagery, partially due to meta reasons - it's something i don't really feel like pursuing strongly today though because i think cape is like, blindingly villagery as town after a few phases.

i don't really know what the ~threadstate~ would look like in any of these worlds, that's not really something i'm great at and i feel like the mafia roles aren't particularly important so it's not like mafia are obligated to like, hard defend their vig or something.

my current take is that it's v/v > v(sleep)/w(cape)>>>>>w(sleep)/v(cape)>>>>>>>>w/w

kat wrote a wall and that makes me want to instinctively townread it

but it's a decent wall, especially the part about #221 does help me see where kat is coming from, i just have an issue with like "i dislike every post" because. yea.h

[Newcomb]

would be very ballsy to post that as w/w yes but if youre referring to the big wall case thing as natural etc then nah i kinda strongly disagree

I'm not, I was referring to 119 which is a short response to you.

I don't think the wall was at all natural, that's my issue with it.

[Sleep]

Sleep: why? (what did u find towny?)

gut! im sorry thats an underwhelming answer but the general feel was ah hm okay, these are thoughts i can see a villager having

[Sleep]

i kinda agree with this fwiw and i think cuth's posts have looked pretty towny for cuth

can u give me a little more on this?

[Dobby]

i mean, hm, that is more or less true to an extent. the thing is, im a very instinctual/gutty player who atruggles with more in-depth analysis, when i do something like that im trying to express the things that pinged mein an explicable form. i believe that direct pressure is a useful tool for reading people, because it forces reactions both from the person being pressured and other observers. i think if the read is expressd in a tepid, half-hearted way ("oh it's just a gut read"), that is significantly more likely to get ignored and i dont want to be ignored.

now the danger of pushing so aggressively like this is getting confirmation biased, and im well aware of that, ive fallen into that trap many times before. so sort of recognize what ur saying to me here. however, i dont really want to...force myself into looking at his posts and telling myself how they could be villagery. what i am doing is trying to question him and see if i can find reasoning that seems villagy from him, and remaining open to hearing the perspective of others who are reading him as a villager, and trying to understand why. right now im about to take a look at his iso in the game katze mentioned to see if its simiar (altho i have grumbles about meta i wont get into here)

im not going to lie, i still find a lot of the stuff hes done wolfy but right now im in the process of broadening my view of the game rather than continuing to harp on cape

That makes sense, and i recognise myself a lot in that as well. Issue for me is that when i read that kind of post it becomes more of a "this is either someone intentionally not trying to solve, or theyve just written a big fat wall confbiasing which i will only read to make up my mind on the one that wrote it, and not to be affected by the actual contents of it"


however, i dont really want to...force myself into looking at his posts and telling myself how they could be villagery. what i am doing is trying to question him and see if i can find reasoning that seems villagy from him, and remaining open to hearing the perspective of others who are reading him as a villager, and trying to understand why.

the issue with this for me is that you make it sort of... a backwards way of solving the game? It's like if i said Sleep is wolf, i'm 100% sure prove me wrong and it's... not a way of solving that makes sense to me, but i mean, i accept that it exists i guess.


I'm not, I was referring to 119 which is a short response to you.

I don't think the wall was at all natural, that's my issue with it.

ah that makes way more sense

[Cuthillius]

vote: raskolnikov

[Cuthillius]

also hi dobby <3

[Dobby]

can u give me a little more on this?

imma throw GUT right back at ya here :P

But honestly, the content and the approach to the game is mainly what stands out. It's hard to exactly put my finger on, but posts like #79, #222, #256, and recently in my catchp 460 and 463 and just... authentic/geniune flow to them which I think is less prominent in his wolfing. His posts are not packed with content but it's enough to make me feel like yeah he's keeping track of stuff and progressing things in his way. He is one of my stronger townreads (i hadnt gotten to 460/463 when i wrote that post fwiw) tbh

[Zack]

meh idk on cape :wall:

[Dobby]

is it crazy if I say this feels like a w/w interaction? :crazy:

this is weaksauce for two people who supposedly suspect the other

just skimming rask posts, i think he believes in them and they're genuine thoughts but i dont like agree with a fair few of them though


see, this is the kind of sequence I like

it shows that he was thinking about the game and people's alignments behind the scenes, and was able to quickly prove it with receipts. Didn't make some grandiose post(s) in the thread announcing his switch on Cuth, but gave a solid earthy explanation of what changed his read when asked.

that said if cuth is a wolf it maybe looks bad for cape

like I said earlier, I could be wrong on Cape but he keeps posting thiings that I find villagy and I'm not seeing the issue with his posts

:creep:

the receipts are like... emojis, and talk about his wife, come on

[Dobby]

just skimming rask posts, i think he believes in them and they're genuine thoughts but i dont like agree with a fair few of them though



the receipts are like... emojis, and talk about his wife, come on

wait that was zack not rask, i was trolled by the yellowish pics

[Sleep]

the issue with this for me is that you make it sort of... a backwards way of solving the game? It's like if i said Sleep is wolf, i'm 100% sure prove me wrong and it's... not a way of solving that makes sense to me, but i mean, i accept that it exists i guess.idk, maybe i am not making myself clear here, i really do find him sus, i continue to find the stuff he says sus, but i am aware of the possibility i could be wrong (as i often am). i really am continuing to evaluate his posts tho and i think outside perspective on him is more valuable than, like, forcing my thinking into a particular mold

like if i wanted to keep hammering on it i could say i dont like his wolfreads either but im sure no one wants to hear it! so im doing other stuff

[Csargo]

I read a couple of monty games on this forums and he seems to have no problems posting as a wolf. can the orgers elaborate on why they think he is a wolf from his 3 posts?

less verbose, less content about the game, and just sort of here but not doing anything. It's not like absolute 100% a woof, because any number of things could be happening. I just want to see if Monty shows up and does anything, and my vote there seems good at the present.

[Zack]

just skimming rask posts, i think he believes in them and they're genuine thoughts but i dont like agree with a fair few of them though



the receipts are like... emojis, and talk about his wife, come on

???

[Dobby]

???

you are rask now



imma post a List ina bit but apparently i need to go to church to save my soul so

[Newcomb]

I think we need to start talking about consolidating.

Who's actually likely to go over today?

1. zack
2. nebjiamn
3. cuthillius
4. Ladd
5. Winston Hughes
6. Raskolnikov
7. Newcomb
8. Csargo
9. EnderWiggin
10. Sunbae
11. Montmorency
12. roro__b
13. monstrbro
14. katze
15. Sleep
16. Cape90
17. hollowkatt

Zack no, bennah... probably not though I can't off the top of my head recall anyone strongly reading bennah one way or another.

Cuth, probably not, some strong voices townread.

Ladd... interesting but I don't realistically think that's ever happening D1 here.

Winston... could see this being a LHF compromise type thing I guess? Possible.

Rask, possible

Me, not happening

Csargo, maaaaybe but kind of a long shot IMO

Ender, maybe

Sunbae, probably not happening

Monte, sure

Dobby, jury's out, see how people react to the catchup. I tend to think not.

Monster, uhhhh yeah moving on

Katz, probably not happening

Sleep, would probably be the spiciest D1 lynch that's actually on the table.

Cape, not actually sure. Can't recall what thread sentiment is on this guy.

HK, outside shot maybe

That leaves us with what, Winston/Rask/Monte as the "taking the easy way out" type options, with Monte being like the pure shot in the dark. and the two C names, Ender, and outside shot of Sleep/HK as the more information heavy but harder kills?

Does that roughly match other people's takes on thread sentiment? Open question. Feels like it's about time to get the ball rolling though.

[Sleep]

imma throw GUT right back at ya here :P

But honestly, the content and the approach to the game is mainly what stands out. It's hard to exactly put my finger on, but posts like #79, #222, #256, and recently in my catchp 460 and 463 and just... authentic/geniune flow to them which I think is less prominent in his wolfing. His posts are not packed with content but it's enough to make me feel like yeah he's keeping track of stuff and progressing things in his way. He is one of my stronger townreads (i hadnt gotten to 460/463 when i wrote that post fwiw) tbh

fair enuf! i feel like we have very different views of the game but i respect the meta familiarity perspective ur coming from here

[Winston Hughes]

meh idk on cape :wall:

aye

unvote

[Winston Hughes]

Winston... could see this being a LHF compromise type thing I guess? Possible.

:deal:

[Sleep]

Does that roughly match other people's takes on thread sentiment? Open question. Feels like it's about time to get the ball rolling though.

forget the consolidation talk - who do you actually want to kill?

[Newcomb]

:deal:

Sorry man lol. Just reading the tea leaves, not saying anything about you as a player.

[Winston Hughes]

some people i had townie have been looking scummier

some people i had scummy have been looking townier

most of you are pretty much null right now

i'm not sure i know how to play this game anymore

:titanic:

[Newcomb]

forget the consolidation talk - who do you actually want to kill?

Hmmm, you know I'd never thought of that. I guess I'll just drop this whole thing that I was interested in and wanted to talk about, and go over something I've already talked about and am kind of bored with? Yeah that sounds like a good use of my time.

[Winston Hughes]

Sorry man lol. Just reading the tea leaves, not saying anything about you as a player.

you misunderstand me

i know exactly where i am

i'm saying bring it on

[Sleep]

vote: Newcomb

[Csargo]

i'm not sure i know how to play this game anymore

:titanic:

https://media.giphy.com/media/iZrbMf9YdsF7KSMNFs/giphy.gif

[Winston Hughes]

vote: Newcomb

:yes:

[Dobby]

Vote: Hollowkatt

[Zack]

Vote: Hollowkatt

:creep:

[Winston Hughes]

Vote: Hollowkatt

i still like hk

can you point me to why you don't?

(and apologies for my slackness if you already did)

[Dobby]

i still like hk

can you point me to why you don't?

(and apologies for my slackness if you already did)

I had some posts but am on phone now and out so won't til eod, but generally the biggest feeling of "I don't believe that this is what he believes" in the game

[Winston Hughes]

I had some posts but am on phone now and out so won't til eod, but generally the biggest feeling of "I don't believe that this is what he believes" in the game

so it's mostly gut?

[Winston Hughes]

Vote: Hollowkatt

:creep:

i'd ask

but i know you won't tell

[Zack]

I would prefer we not kill Newcomb d1.

I find it sort of interesting Csargo has received fairly little heat while not doing much of anything.

Really wish Monty would show up and do anything at all.

Would like to see a bit more from Winston. :pimp2:

Vote: Ender i guess

[Winston Hughes]

Would like to see a bit more from Winston. :pimp2:

who do you want me to talk about?

[Zack]

who do you want me to talk about?

whatever you want

you being under the radar and careful not to say anything untoward reminds me more of how you wolf than how you town

[Winston Hughes]

whatever you want

you being under the radar and careful not to say anything untoward reminds me more of how you wolf than how you town

indeed

i know exactly how it looks

i'm not feeling the joy yet

and that is ++rand scum for me

[ladd]

vote:ender

maybe i randed wolf so much in these things that I forgot how to village lol

dunno game seems very hard to me now. I could see it going...a lot of different ways and am just down to get some flips

sleep will prob get villaread for his posts since i went to sleep but imo they are pretty bad. he really reminds me of myself when i have a wolfread as a wolf and i just keep forcing seeeing my wolfread's posts as wolfy instead of trying to see if i am possibly wrong

newcomb/hk are both bad wagons imo

[Sleep]

I would prefer we not kill Newcomb d1.

I find it sort of interesting Csargo has received fairly little heat while not doing much of anything.

Really wish Monty would show up and do anything at all.

Would like to see a bit more from Winston. :pimp2:

Vote: Ender i guess
im not really happy with this mentality or the direction the game seems to be going. admittedly i have a reflexive tendency to townread players i perceive as lhf which often leads me to blind spot them but i think ur puutting a burden of "doing things" on ppl who are maybe more relaxed/less tryhardy while giving a pass to someone who has, in actuality, done very little

i will write a little more on this in a bit

[ladd]

idr if i ever elaborated on hollowkat villaread but he seems like a classic read deacay vote. I don't really seen him coming into a game with this pl as a wolf and making posts like:


Yeah I can. He feels stilted, like his content is forced, and that he's struggling to get into the groove of the game.
I tend to ego solve and compare what people are doing to what I'd be doing in their positions. This would tangentially apply to cape as well tbh:
If I were a wolf in this player list I'd be extremely concerned with making the towniest posts I could make and trying to fit in with the overall flow of the game so as not to get caught out immediately. Unfortunately when I do that I tend to be really obvs a wolf as I'm basically trying too hard. Ender (and Cape) feel like they're trying too hard.

The downside to ego solving is that other people are not me (I know, this is a shocking revelation) and don't necessarily react to things the same way I would. This isn't stopping me from making the read.



And before someone asks, my "no chop" vote is totally legit. This is a player list I am going to struggle to read and seeing who dies over night if we don't chop anyone might help in solving. Otherwise I'm likely going to just sheep someone I town read that I perceive is smarter than I am, or be on some weird vanity wagon at the end of the day.
So I figured I'd throw out not chopping as an option, see what people think of that, and go from there.

and yeah I'm being serious

its hard to believe that a wolf genuinely thoughts saying the red was a good idea


yeah no problem.

My OG vote on Katze was 100% a shitpost vote.
People started piling onto katze tho and that felt weird to me. Like if they're a wolf then it's great, but if they're town a runaway wagon on them to start the game seems like a good opportunity for a wolf or two to get on and try to hang there for a chop today.
That's the basis for the v read there, basically that too many people were like "hmm yes katze is a good vote at this stage of the game".
I subscribe to the theory that early game wagons have lasting impact on the rest of the game through a kind of communal thread memory and that an early game wagon like that on a villager is one way to put a potential strong village player into the POE to make them either post out of it or allow for "bad votes" later in the game by calling back to it.

and this was a very villagery thought and something I believe he believes

imo

[Winston Hughes]

but honestly i'm just not sure what to talk about

partly it's just rustiness, i think

but there's probably also just too much red meat already on the plate

in all of my games in recent years, i've felt like i needed to drive the conversation to some extent

this game's been generating it faster than i've been able to keep up

[ladd]

is it really that much of an issue? i signed up with a different username beause haha funny vote sleep meme and its a new site, i figured

if its a ~problem~ i dont mind saying it but i significantly prefer playing as an unknown because i feel like it forces people to engage more honestly with the words in my posts rather than filtering it through some lens based on a preconceived identity they have attached to me, if that makes sense


before i go into that, i want to ask u this:

u seem to be confident cape is an obvious villager, so much so that ur defending him by attacking me. but the most reasoning i can find for WHY u think that is this:


and this is super vague and generic and doesnt really tell me anything about his actual content or why u like it. zack has a post like #565 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828845&viewfull=1#post2053828845) where, ok, i can see the reasoning there, im not sure i agree, but i respect the thoughts, where with u i cant really figure out the reasoning or why ur so determined.

1) not really, i just think its weird that you are the only alt and what is essentially an invitational playerlist where most people know each other or are metable

2) i am saying your push on cape is wolfy, cape is a thin villa lean for me. the 2 things can cohexist

[Dobby]

so it's mostly gut?

No, I wrote a pretty extensive post about the type of reasoning he used and while I haven't pointed out other specific posts to nit full the thread with my catchup but it's been a general ah I don't like this tbh

[Sleep]

vote:ender

maybe i randed wolf so much in these things that I forgot how to village lol

dunno game seems very hard to me now. I could see it going...a lot of different ways and am just down to get some flips

sleep will prob get villaread for his posts since i went to sleep but imo they are pretty bad. he really reminds me of myself when i have a wolfread as a wolf and i just keep forcing seeeing my wolfread's posts as wolfy instead of trying to see if i am possibly wrong

newcomb/hk are both bad wagons imo

hi, can u please respond to #582 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828864&viewfull=1#post2053828864)/#586 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828868&viewfull=1#post2053828868)? im just struggling to understand ur perspective here and would like some clarity

[Dobby]

idr if i ever elaborated on hollowkat villaread but he seems like a classic read deacay vote. I don't really seen him coming into a game with this pl as a wolf and making posts like:



its hard to believe that a wolf genuinely thoughts saying the red was a good idea



and this was a very villagery thought and something I believe he believes

imo

Qre u questioning my reads :whip:

[Dobby]

In how many hours does the day end?

[ladd]

test

[Winston Hughes]

No, I wrote a pretty extensive post about the type of reasoning he used and while I haven't pointed out other specific posts to nit full the thread with my catchup but it's been a general ah I don't like this tbh

okay, i'll get off my arse and look that up

[ladd]

site is going super slow for me, dunno if its a me problem tho. seems to be working now tho


i mean thats literally a single line, i could have gone at length into why i didnt like it but it would mostly boil down to "tone", i sensed the rest of the thread likely had no appetite for a prolonged back and forth, and i wanted the chance to focus my attention on other things and not have cape spend all his time defendin himself to me. im still actively engaged in trying to sort him/other ppl, im not sure where u get the impression thats the only thing im doing

i never said this

i addressed the other post already

if you want me to expand on something lmk, I know I am being lazy

[ladd]

In how many hours does the day end?

5 and 45 mins

[Zack]

im not really happy with this mentality or the direction the game seems to be going. admittedly i have a reflexive tendency to townread players i perceive as lhf which often leads me to blind spot them but i think ur puutting a burden of "doing things" on ppl who are maybe more relaxed/less tryhardy while giving a pass to someone who has, in actuality, done very little

i will write a little more on this in a bit

I disagree that newcomb has done very little

I've played with Csargo, Monty, and Winston countless times. Csargo and Monty have done close to nothing, and while that's maybe not too out of character for Csargo on d1 he can do more, and Monty/Winston are almost always far more active and engaged than this

[Sleep]

2) i am saying your push on cape is wolfy, cape is a thin villa lean for me. the 2 things can cohexist

see i just dont believe that at all. uve not only gone out of ur way to defend him against sunbae but against me too, u seemingly didnt really raise isssue with or interact with the post at all when i made it, only to return a day later and declare me a wolf for it. u didnt really try to talk with me about it prior to this which makes me question whether u actually had interest in sorting me or persuading me that i am wrong on cape (and i will grant that u asked me a question about him that i have yet to answer). but to me it feels like ur attack is coming from an inordinate level of confidence that cape is a villager

[ladd]

lets let katze lead eod

[ladd]

see i just dont believe that at all. uve not only gone out of ur way to defend him against sunbae but against me too, u seemingly didnt really raise isssue with or interact with the post at all when i made it, only to return a day later and declare me a wolf for it. u didnt really try to talk with me about it prior to this which makes me question whether u actually had interest in sorting me or persuading me that i am wrong on cape (and i will grant that u asked me a question about him that i have yet to answer). but to me it feels like ur attack is coming from an inordinate level of confidence that cape is a villager

thats cause i started to get concerned right before i went to sleep yday when i saw your post dumping on cape asnwer (which was right before i went to sleep) and i went to re read your wall to which i quite frankly didnt pay a ton of attention to on my first read

i dont see why you struggle to see that I can find a push wolfy without having the pushed gui as lack clear

[Sleep]

I disagree that newcomb has done very little

I've played with Csargo, Monty, and Winston countless times. Csargo and Monty have done close to nothing, and while that's maybe not too out of character for Csargo on d1 he can do more, and Monty/Winston are almost always far more active and engaged than this

ok. i think sometimes in a game like this differing playstyles can kind of stifle people but i will respect ur meta on them. i had a segment in this in my reads list im working on but i wouldnt be shocked if theres a wolf in the null/less active players, i just dont like necessarily going for those as the day 1 elim because they tend to be lazy and =rand. they are the type of slots i wouldnt mind being exploded.

i still think newcomb has been p wolfy tho

[ladd]

If I end up going over, just know I'm confident in my towncore this game

Very confident


Least confident wolf read by a long shot is ladd.

Knowing how hit or miss I can be 2 wolves are in my light towns and if there's a wolf somewhere in my towncore, it's benneh

this gave me a laugh, i read the first post in amrock's voice

[hollowkatt]

Hi I am currently on page 17 and have read nothing since then AMA

[Sleep]

thats cause i started to get concerned right before i went to sleep yday when i saw your post dumping on cape asnwer (which was right before i went to sleep) and i went to re read your wall to which i quite frankly didnt pay a ton of attention to on my first read

i dont see why you struggle to see that I can find a push wolfy without having the pushed gui as lack clear

ig its because the idea that my push is wolf-motivated suggests that you find it to be in some way disagreeable which implies that i am pushing someone u believe to be a villager, where if there was some gray area i would expect u to maybe try to figure out my perspective more to see if i was a villager who was just misfiring on something rather than declaring me a wolf

[hollowkatt]

I guess I should explicitly make this a question, so what's up with including rask here?

Like, including rask in a list with everyone I buy. Forgetting to include rask when doing a stream of consciousness "state of the game" post I buy. This halfway thing where rask is included in a specific group of 3 along with 2 other players both of which have posted a moderate amount is... odd?

I can't reeeeeally fit this to an obvious wolf mindset thing, like... w/w with rask? Nah I feel like he'd be even more aware than Joe Villager that his partner was currently 0 posting. Knows rask is v and too lazy to check since already knew alignment? Doesn't really seem that likely.

Still though I kind of want to know what's up with this post since it's odd in a way that demands a reason, like there has to be a reason the thought went there to put that name with those two.

Kinda disagree with this because putting the zero poster in the same bucket as "I have no reads on these people" makes some amount of sense to me though I do generally separate out "no reads but have posted" vs "no reads and not posting" slots precisely for trying to avoid posts like yours being made.

I don't think it's a smoking gun for csargo but if he's addressed this somewhere I anticipate reading what his answer(s) were.

[hollowkatt]

i will win the lyrical battle

You ready? Let's go!
Yeah!
For those of you that wanna know what this situation is all about

This is ten percent bad luck, twenty percent the set-up
Fifteen percent benneh the Town Clown
Five percent Newcomb, fifty percent the willage
And a hundred percent reason to remember the name katze

katze the Townie
Yeah!

She doesn't need maximum towncred
She just wants to be heard, just wants her post to be read
She feels so unlike everybody else, alone
Nobody believes his claim

In spite of the fact that some people still think that they know she is town
But fuck 'em, she knows the way, it?s not about winning
It's all about reality and showing she?s town

katze the Townie
Yeah!

Telling his truth
Who the hell is she, anyway? She never really talks much
katze the Townie

Never concerned with townreads, just fighting for life
Humbled through opportunities given despite the fact
Visor included katze in the set-up

They many misjudge her 'cause she might claim a role similar to one that'll flip
Put it together herself, now the picture connects

This is twenty percent bad luck, eighty percent the set-up
Be a hundred percent clear, 'cause katze is town
This dude is the telling his truth

This is ten percent bad luck, twenty percent the set-up
Fifteen percent benneh the Town Clown
Five percent Newcomb, fifty percent the willage
And a hundred percent reason to remember the name katze the Townie

She's not your everyday Townie
She knows how to work with what he's got, making her way to the top of the post count
She often gets a comment on his name, people keep asking her
"How can you exist"
No, she's living proof (Proof), got her rocking the booth
Dedicated to her role and giving it a hundred percent

Forget benneh, forget mechanics
Forget the design
Just pay attention to this rhyme

When katze flips Town, just say instead
Ridiculous, mechanics lost us the game again

this is completely within katzes wolf range and yet I want to town read it because I am lazy and it feels good to do so.

[Newcomb]

lets let katze lead eod

I'm surprisingly okay with this.

[Winston Hughes]

No, I wrote a pretty extensive post about the type of reasoning he used and while I haven't pointed out other specific posts to nit full the thread with my catchup but it's been a general ah I don't like this tbh

so #664 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828949&viewfull=1#post2053828949) referring to #134 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828396&viewfull=1#post2053828396)


it's easy to get like, tunnelled in your approach of reading someone, almost confbiasing. Like. Okay, first thing i think when i read ender's post is just this, he does seem to try to force out content, and then i can easily poop out words that add to the initial case i made to make it have some weight to it. This type of read is also... Easily fakeable. It's a tool i use as a wolf, because it's an easy way to play as mafia that looks really towny, and like you've done WORK, and it's a really hard thing to identify as wolfy and push. I feel like this whole post smells of that kind of thing. Add to it the last segment which kind of is a bit hedgy to cover for eventualities where Ender who based on what i've seen now, might very well be an early chop.

So yeah my thoughts on Ender aorn if i'm trying to decide if he's faking it or it's a personality/style of playing thing, is that it seems genuine enough for now and because of it being impossible (unless you know him really well, which i don't but also lolmeta) to judge which one it is, it's also something that a legit read shouldn't be based on. And the read HK is making here is making me :fry: way more tbh.