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- sleep/cape prob v/v, sorta felt like ladd was setting up sleep to look bad after a cape flip - i don't think sleep had any real chance of being yeeted yesterday, but cape did (and ladd wouldn't have had to get his hands dirty for it)
Feel like this is an interesting thought when I have been hard defending Sleep.
hollowkatt
04-24-2022, 02:30
Absolute fucking madlads lol
I would never have voted ladd D1 like that, huge EV swing but goddamn, not something I think I could ever bring myself to do.
Think I'm gonna go backread for a bit. First instinct is to pretty much clear the ladd wagon and I think I want to kill Ender?
If you're clearing the Ladd wagon how many wolves do you think were on your wagon and rasks wagon at the end of the day?
I think it's unlikely that we had w/w/w wagons, maybe even unlikely we had w/w/t wagons.
Which would put, in my opinion, >2 wolves between the following {ender, katze, sleep, monstr (now dolby), neb, dobby)
Of those the ones I'm most suspect of are dolby, dobby, and ender. I liked katzes posting throughout the day. I also freely admit I'm shite at reading them. Neb and sleep I should have reads on but don't.
I do at least remember that they're playing. Dobby otoh I do not. Seems like an iawy vibe check place tbh.
Monstr I thought was suspect when they had vv minimal posts b/c the posts they did have felt spicy for the sake of spicy. Dolby, while I have a shitload of experience with, I am shit at reading.
How do you feel about Ladd attacking me and you shortly after we suspected Cape?
Hey Sunbae, I don't like your question here
Winston Hughes, Cuthillius, Montmorency, Raskolnikov
is a very strange list to me of people that voted on ladd. Especially since someone like benneh has obviously had a lot of experience with ladd and his meta
id prefer the around ~24 hour mark personally
This actually sounds probably good, maybe slightly later since it is day 2, maybe closer to the 12 hour mark, BUT NOT LAST SECOND.
Last second just sounds like mistakes
https://i.imgur.com/DfzfQNG.png
lmao, i wasnt sure why he died but this explains it tbh
This actually sounds probably good, maybe slightly later since it is day 2, maybe closer to the 12 hour mark, BUT NOT LAST SECOND.
Last second just sounds like mistakes
Suicide bombers MUST PM me their target to kill within 36 hours (12 hours before EOD) of daybreak the next day. (If you get targeted, n1, you find out at start of day 2, you have 36 hours from start of day to pick your target). Once you submit your target you are dead and most stop posting. If you do not submit a target it will be randed.
well they have to explode by the 12 hour mark so personally i think making your bomb known by the 24 hour mark is kind of a no brainer so people can acknowledge it
i could see arguments for even sooner but it's ultimately up to whoever has the vest i suppose
nebjiamn
04-24-2022, 02:42
Winston Hughes, Cuthillius, Montmorency, Raskolnikov
is a very strange list to me of people that voted on ladd. Especially since someone like benneh has obviously had a lot of experience with ladd and his meta
Why call me out specifically here?
i read him as a villager but even if I didn’t I prob wouldn’t have voted him (see my non vote on newcomb) I thought minor things like him yoloing a sunbae wolf read and then clarifying sunbae would do great in champs in parentheticals as an indication he really felt he found sunbae and felt bad for it
having said that I have a terrible history of reading Ladd in non-turbos and I’ve been on record as calling him the best wolf I know
nebjiamn
04-24-2022, 02:45
I really dislike that cape called me out specifically there but I?m me so maybe I?m just a whiny punk
https://i.imgur.com/DfzfQNG.png
~:smoking:
NGL, Dolby's postings kinda stick out to me and I am not exactly sure I like Dolby's wallpost on ladd. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829517&viewfull=1#post2053829517)
Like I really don't think it says a whole lot except sunbae/ender v
with another peculiar read being that HK/zack/benneh are all town becasue ladd townread them...
okay lemme make a read
So check out where ladd puts me on #321 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828585&viewfull=1#post2053828585)
Having played mafia for so long I know that wolf love to insert their wolfbuddies in the middlish portion of a list like this. A list in which ladd considers all of these people town.
So because of my placement on this list, I declare that I am hard cleared.
Any disagreements?
...Yes?
Yeah it's because its not a good read LMAO. You see my point?
Also if you look at Zack's logs, I think zack is like 99% an obvtown anyways :shrug:
Why call me out specifically here?
i read him as a villager but even if I didn’t I prob wouldn’t have voted him (see my non vote on newcomb) I thought minor things like him yoloing a sunbae wolf read and then clarifying sunbae would do great in champs in parentheticals as an indication he really felt he found sunbae and felt bad for it
having said that I have a terrible history of reading Ladd in non-turbos and I’ve been on record as calling him the best wolf I know
I feel like you have a lot of experience with ladd in turbos and such to where you would easily pick up when ladd is mafia. Heck, even I had my suspicions there, though I did express I wasn't confident in that admittedly.
I really dislike that cape called me out specifically there but I?m me so maybe I?m just a whiny punk
also you were basically the first that came to mind since you play in a lot of games that ladd does, moreso then the rest of the scooby doo crew here
nebjiamn
04-24-2022, 02:53
NGL, Dolby's postings kinda stick out to me and I am not exactly sure I like Dolby's wallpost on ladd. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829517&viewfull=1#post2053829517)
Like I really don't think it says a whole lot except sunbae/ender v
with another peculiar read being that HK/zack/benneh are all town becasue ladd townread them...
okay lemme make a read
So check out where ladd puts me on #321 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828585&viewfull=1#post2053828585)
Having played mafia for so long I know that wolf love to insert their wolfbuddies in the middlish portion of a list like this. A list in which ladd considers all of these people town.
So because of my placement on this list, I declare that I am hard cleared.
Any disagreements?
...Yes?
Yeah it's because its not a good read LMAO. You see my point?
Also if you look at Zack's logs, I think zack is like 99% an obvtown anyways :shrug:
I don’t love the reasoning but it might be right anyway
id rather give Dolby a bit more space today since they’re catching up but I wasn’t a huge fan of monstrs posts and unsure why people were hard reading him v
nebjiamn
04-24-2022, 02:56
Fair enough cape, but I don?t read people the same in real game?s bad turbos cause ppl don?t play the same
and this is, legitimately, the first real game ladd and I have played together. The only other non mash and non turbos we?ve played were hydras and team games. Zack, dobby, sunbae and a few others prob have way more experience with him in these games than I do
katze, nebjiamn, Sleep, Raskolnikov
are all players were on cuth b4 ladd wagon became a thing
nebjiamn
04-24-2022, 02:57
Fair enough cape, but I don?t read people the same in real game?s bad turbos cause ppl don?t play the same
and this is, legitimately, the first real game ladd and I have played together. The only other non mash and non turbos we?ve played were hydras and team games. Zack, dobby, sunbae and a few others prob have way more experience with him in these games than I do
First real game we’ve played together that I can think of*
EnderWiggin
04-24-2022, 02:57
I don't have a vest and I am sad.
I don’t love the reasoning but it might be right anyway
id rather give Dolby a bit more space today since they’re catching up but I wasn’t a huge fan of monstrs posts and unsure why people were hard reading him v
i liked a series of a couple of posts monstr made before they got frustrated. Its in my logs somewhere
EnderWiggin
04-24-2022, 02:58
Side note:
I am not unconvinced that I wasn't just right on Newcomb.
Caveat: I have read nothing since the flip.
Suffering through migraine today so idk how much I'll do in the next few hours before I inevitably cave to using drugs.
Side note:
I am not unconvinced that I wasn't just right on Newcomb.
Caveat: I have read nothing since the flip.
Suffering through migraine today so idk how much I'll do in the next few hours before I inevitably cave to using drugs.
fwiw i think you probably were just right on newcomb, unless he really picks it up today
~:smoking:
(migraines suck ~:grouphug:)
Also if you look at Zack's logs, I think zack is like 99% an obvtown anyways :shrug:
[insert poop joke about my logs] Dobby
hollowkatt
04-24-2022, 03:01
I don't have a vest and I am sad.
copycat
hollowkatt
04-24-2022, 03:02
vote: dolby
my bones say this is the chop
hollowkatt
04-24-2022, 03:17
I low key hate like the last 20 posts in Raskols ISO and would not be sad if he were to blow up.
I low key hate like the last 20 posts in Raskols ISO and would not be sad if he were to blow up.
Rask has no problem with bussing? Don't think I've ever seen him as a woof.
Cape90 : can you explain why you had ladd in your wolf leans yesterday?
EnderWiggin
04-24-2022, 03:31
fwiw i think you probably were just right on newcomb, unless he really picks it up today
~:smoking:
(migraines suck ~:grouphug:)
How the turntables.
EnderWiggin
04-24-2022, 03:32
Rask has no problem with bussing? Don't think I've ever seen him as a woof.
I don't remember much of the time I've seen Rask wolf but he's usually a sideways busser. Like he'll never be the primary push on a partner.
He can bus tho.
i read dolbys catchup including the wall, some of the reasoning is eh, conclusions are hasty, but i can see it coming from a villager. i wouldnt be shocked if hes a wolf but its not something i have a burning urge to see flipped, contrary to how some are talking about him
also i just had this thought but: the sorc and backup shouldnt necessarily out, if the sorc target is a wolf they have every incentive to let the prs out themselves and then kill one. this is somewhat dependent on whoever is the bomber for today but prefer no claiming here just yet
i don't really see the stuff ladd is saying about ender as wolfy, but i might need to re-read his guide to villaging. i do think ladd's choice of words that he was going to "help" me are interesting in italics.
there are two things that ping me re: ender
1) him claiming my post on dobby was presented as a deep read. i don't really see how someone can come to that conclusion? it was served up as a way to get people out of copypasta mode (slight mission accomplished!) more than anything else. the thoughts themselves are real but when someone suggests deep read its definitely going to be more than just tonal/filler accusations against a 1-poster.
i'm tempering 1 a bit because i don't think i can be the best judge of how my post re: dobby came across since i'm aware of the intent behind it. plus, ladd said i needed help, maybe i appeared to be struggling, lol. i also think ender's Wendy's reply kind of fits with his thinking that it appeared as a deep read.
2) "so I literally can't care enough to tell everyone why that could be a wolf play." this line/snippet from just pings me from a different mindset. why the default to explaining why it can't be a wolf play vs can't be a village play or just NAI? for clarity, this is not a deep read :) but it does ping me as a weird way to hedge the end of that post after saying you appreciated me starting the game off with a watery weak read.
I think this post points towards bennah not being with ladd. First, the way he kind of lightly shades ladd and then moves onto the meat of the post feels a bit.. drive by-y for a partner? Like if he's with ladd there there's just a touch more oomph to it, a touch more awareness. And then second, the way he's disagreeing with ladd's stuff about ender being wolfy, but then the meat of his post is calling ender wolfy for different reasons. That kind of nuance especially in early game would surprise me if w/w - like, calling your partner's take bad but then also giving the same take for different reasons.
im rereading EOD and i really think ender is a villager based on the way he was posting
montmorency had kind of a funny reaction to winston voting ladd where he asked "is this a bit?" which kinda makes me raise my eyebrow a bit
but im not sure he does the vote -> "whats the tally" -> unvote thing as a wolf
I don't remember much of the time I've seen Rask wolf but he's usually a sideways busser. Like he'll never be the primary push on a partner.
He can bus tho.
I figured.
hmm, guess i never got around to finishing that thought, i had that post sitting in notepad for a few hours and didnt edit it, my fault for hitting publish on my first draft. i think what i was going for is "it's messing around, there's nothing substantial about it that you could agree with"
Someone get Ender on the phone to call this post wolfy for faking a simple mistake because apparently that's something wolves do a lot.
zack seems villagery. benneh is my top villa. lettuce form the masons triumvirate
hk said some stuff wolves prob dont say
i liked mont's opening for exact same reasons as sleep
sunbae seems wolfy
i'll help benneh [get the game going] is what I meant
level 0 read of this is that its pockety of zack and ben. not unfakeable but a + in the ledger
Cuthillius
04-24-2022, 04:29
I feel like you have a lot of experience with ladd in turbos and such to where you would easily pick up when ladd is mafia. Heck, even I had my suspicions there, though I did express I wasn't confident in that admittedly.
this would be a pretty ballsy thing to say as a wolf here
Cuthillius
04-24-2022, 04:33
Someone get Ender on the phone to call this post wolfy for faking a simple mistake because apparently that's something wolves do a lot.
this is unnecessary
Cuthillius
04-24-2022, 04:33
vote: montmorency
sum'n sum'n
katze treatement of newcomb this game is pretty much a carbon copy of how he treated me as v/v in the poisoner invitational 21er afair
except he gave me d1 freepass (and i did get n1ed)
and i dont really think they'd play like this as a wolf
I think I gotta give katz some points for this... in general I don't really like reading into direct spew, I more like to re-read and see what everyone else was saying about the red flip, but given the stuff I was talking about re: katz before ladd made this post, I think it's a lot more likely that ladd could throw that out there that casually because it was right. As a wolf he knows he's defending someone he knows is his partner to someone he knows is town and on balance I think there'd just be a bit more meat to it. Like he'd have to know that wouldn't really move the needle, it's too weak. So what would be the point?
this is unnecessary
Oh come on, I get shaded for like 2 days by like 3 people and am begrudgingly coming to read some of them as villagers and I'm not allowed like *one post* to snap back a little? Like literally someone ITT said they'd flip me and feel "0 guilt" if I flipped v. Like, the fuck did I do? I'm just over here playing my game.
I think I'm being admirably even-keeled for the most part.
I'm hoping that if I said 0-1 in [Sleep, Zack, HK, Neb, Newc, Cuth] I'd be correct
Decent shot you would be I think.
reading this through im not sure it changes my worldview a ton yet. im willing to bump ender and sunbae up to my top tier. the way they responded to pressure from ladd just doesnt look aligned. zack looks good but i already had him as a villager. the hing ith letting katze be in charge of eod would be p funny as distancing but i dont think its likely and katze calling him out for seemingly shadowing newcomb is good
cuth bussing ladd in the situation he was in is wild if a wolf, so im willing to give him a pass for that, although ladds read on him was kind of weird. this is maybe something to consider down the line, if we find multiple wolves were getting heat eod1. in that situation a bold play would be necessary to try to get someone village read.
theres some people i want to revisit (csargo, ben) to shore up my feelings but my worldview has changed shockingly little so far
actually a funny thing i just noticed in his iso: ladd made a big deal about how the people he voiced suspicion of (ender, sunbae, zack) pushed back on him (and sort of tried to preemptively discredit me doing it, lol), but basically didnt comment on cape calling him a suspect
this would be a pretty ballsy thing to say as a wolf here
...why?
There's a distinct difference in the way you've piled on vs the way Zack, Benneh, and Newcomb have handled it and i'm trying to warn a town read of mine that I think he's getting pocketed.
I think Sunbae's just a villager?
Cuthillius
04-24-2022, 04:50
...why?
it's just. not the sort of thought a wolf normally has? nearly as often as a villager? could have phrased it a bit more clearly it's not necessarily that it's so brave it's just. a really idk not-wolf-like way of saying stuff
telling a villager that if you were them you would have obviously been able to tell that your partner was a wolf, and that even though you don't know them that well you were kinda sus there
is just wack if w
nebjiamn
04-24-2022, 04:51
this would be a pretty ballsy thing to say as a wolf here
how so?
that doesn't seem like an ostensibly high stakes post to make?
nebjiamn
04-24-2022, 04:52
it's just. not the sort of thought a wolf normally has? nearly as often as a villager? could have phrased it a bit more clearly it's not necessarily that it's so brave it's just. a really idk not-wolf-like way of saying stuff
telling a villager that if you were them you would have obviously been able to tell that your partner was a wolf, and that even though you don't know them that well you were kinda sus there
is just wack if w
how do you know i'm a villager? :curtain:
Cuthillius
04-24-2022, 05:02
how do you know i'm a villager? :curtain:
w!cape talking to his partner w!benneh about their partner w!ladd like this makes even more sense, yes
my giga brain conclusion on a reread of csargo is the he and cape are not w/w. possibly 1 in there but no more than that.
hollowkatt
04-24-2022, 05:26
Rask has no problem with bussing? Don't think I've ever seen him as a woof.
Rask fooled me hard in the last Syndicate game we played in, he feels similar here to there. Dolby I think was also wolf that game? Might have to check.
I don't think Rask has a problem with busing but I have not seen enough of his wolf games to really make a determination there.
I think I want to see how he plays today given the Ladd wolf flip.
Town:
zack
nebjiamn
Sleep
Newcomb
Light Town:
Sunbae
EnderWiggin
Cuthillus
Hollowkatt
katze
Talk more:
Montmorency
Light Wolf:
Csargo
ladd
Monstrdude
Winston
Dobby
here is reads that I have developed while struggle trying to ISO people without the ISO functionality
I bolded my most confident wolf reads.
vote: Csargo
I think Csargo has had good (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828723&viewfull=1#post2053828723) and bad (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828346&viewfull=1#post2053828346). And I feel like Csargo has been dodgy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828699&viewfull=1#post2053828699) with some of their posts (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828408&viewfull=1#post2053828408). What I mean is with some of the language they use in these posts like.
and
make of it what you will. Yes I understand people have used my light usage of words against me too, but this feels next level. ~:handball:
Squinting a little at the placement of ladd there
nebjiamn
04-24-2022, 05:34
sleep seems to be making the most nefarious interpretations for ~everything cape says. even obvious wolves dont do as many wolfy things as sleep is accusing cape of doing in 12 hours
tbh knowing who sleep is would help a ton and its kinda lame to sign up on an alt in a game like this
https://media.giphy.com/media/jPAdK8Nfzzwt2/giphy.gif
can you go in some detail on what exactly you really don't like?
this + the rest of the sleep interactions following this post + the confusion/request for knowing sleep's real identity + the rest of my sleep read all look real good for sleep
but i would be lying if i didn't mention the tinfoil light of my brain turns on wondering if this wasn't an elaborate w/w back and forth
nebjiamn
04-24-2022, 05:36
i don't think sunbae handles my push like this if he is a wolf and knows i am a villager and right
mostly the whole warning his top villas that i may be a wolf pocketing them seems like genuine concern rather than something a wolf would ever think to do for show
and in general i got the impression starting from last night already that he was getting increasingly more frustrated with my push on him (feel free to correct me if i am wrong tho) and holding it back
his wall post seems fine too
I read a couple of monty games on this forums and he seems to have no problems posting as a wolf. can the orgers elaborate on why they think he is a wolf from his 3 posts?
i think this reveral on sunbae likely just means sunbae is indeed a villager and ladd realized any equity he had in running that discussion up had run its course. i think if sunbae and ladd were w/w ladd definitely keeps his suspicions there, at least a little, rather than opting to just handwave his wolf read away
nebjiamn
04-24-2022, 05:38
the winston / zack interactions genuinely crack me up btw
nebjiamn
04-24-2022, 05:47
benneh ender katze sunbae (ladd)
very opposed to any of these people today aorn
cuth, i think i know, but why is ladd in parentheses here?
Rask fooled me hard in the last Syndicate game we played in, he feels similar here to there. Dolby I think was also wolf that game? Might have to check.
I don't think Rask has a problem with busing but I have not seen enough of his wolf games to really make a determination there.
I think I want to see how he plays today given the Ladd wolf flip.
:bow:
I agree with you, I don't see anything particularly compelling in Rask's EoD to say he's town other than the ladd vote.
this + the rest of the sleep interactions following this post + the confusion/request for knowing sleep's real identity + the rest of my sleep read all look real good for sleep
but i would be lying if i didn't mention the tinfoil light of my brain turns on wondering if this wasn't an elaborate w/w back and forth
hehe
the winston / zack interactions genuinely crack me up btw
:bow:
:bow:
I agree with you, I don't see anything particularly compelling in Rask's EoD to say he's town other than the ladd vote.
this is maybe low lvl but i think winston dying is a good look for rask
at EOD he was the one who basically stood in the doorway and said not to kill rask. although eod made him essentially lock clear, if hes a villager wrongly shielding wolf rask there are other kills wolves could have made and no one would have batted an eye
sorry ladd I ddidn't want to
this also would be a wild thing to post in thread after last minute bussing
why are benneh and ladd above null?
:shrug:
:bow:
I return
~:wave:
oh apparently I didn't clear those multi-quotes
I was just gonna say that sequence was my favorite
Rather than do a list I'm just gonna spend some individual posts trying to get my thoughts out there in a concise and organized manner
this is maybe low lvl but i think winston dying is a good look for rask
at EOD he was the one who basically stood in the doorway and said not to kill rask. although eod made him essentially lock clear, if hes a villager wrongly shielding wolf rask there are other kills wolves could have made and no one would have batted an eye
this also would be a wild thing to post in thread after last minute bussing
Winston also said that Newcomb/Monty were good choices towards EoD, maybe he died cause he wanted to yeet Zack, there's infinite possibilities. I'm just thinking about purely what Rask did, because anything else is well a rabbit hole.
It would be.
winston died cuz he was obviously clear mainly (it definitely wasn't because he tried to get me chopped :stare:)
newcomb d2 is super underwhelming.
winston died cuz he was obviously clear mainly (it definitely wasn't because he tried to get me chopped :stare:)
newcomb d2 is super underwhelming.
God reading this when I've been spending the last hour writing a post answering your question is tilting as fuck.
God reading this when I've been spending the last hour writing a post answering your question is tilting as fuck.
the question I asked 4.5 hours ago that you hadn't acknowledged while continuing to post about other stuff...?
sorry I can't read your mind
can you give me an overview of where your head's at newcomb?
I'm breaking the game down into groups at the moment.
You've got, essentially - the Ladd voters, the people who I have some experience with and have sounded okay, the people suspecting me, the midrange group of moderately active/engagement people who haven't stood out, and then the lowposters/disengaged group. Those last two you could kinda quibble with who goes where so just assume the line is blurry and not a hardline thing.
So -
Ladd voters. [Cuth, Monte, Rask]. 0-1 in this group, max 1. I'm decently sure they're all villagers. For one thing, I think wolves killing the lead person on the wagon is some light evidence for it being clean - if there was a wolf on it, they'd kinda have to know that whoever it was was gonna get tagged with "why are you still alive" at some point, and killing on the wagon just makes that problem bigger. I will grant you that Rask is like... possible? given how chaotic EoD was. But ladd was like, a PR, a strong player, and flashwagoned by a villager in like 3 seconds.
I know this is colored by knowing I'm town, but I just really don't see w monte, cuth, or rask being that crazy. With the setup being the way it is, village seems like it can get absolutely bodied early if it doesn't get a hit relatively quickly - like you could misyeet D1, NK, double mis bomb D2 and suddenly you're looking at 4 dead town before D2 is even over and that starts to feel pretty bad pretty fast. When it was down to me, rask, or ladd, I know it happened fast but not so fast that it wouldn't be front and center in wolves minds that I was practically free there. Like you've got 3 people wanting me dead, and at least 2 of them are probably villagers. You've got cover. Not jumping on that just seems bad to the point of not even worth considering unless you really need to.
Then you've got the people I know to some degree and have seemed fine. That'd be [you, bennah, and Sunbae]. 0-1 in that group. Sunbae's definitely the villagery one of that group. That warning he gave us about ladd would just be giga-smooth if partnered. Gun to my head you're all villagers. Bennah mostly for the way I think his suspicion of me but not quite being able to pull the trigger felt real. You for... I guess negative space? You've been pretty engaged and I haven't really felt any red flags. Although I'm not wild about your turnaround on me, but w/e.
The third group is the people that have been on my case off and on for most of the game. That's [katze, sleep, Ender]. 1-2 in that group IMO. I kinda think it's exactly one. Basically, I really, really, really doubt that the pressure on me has been totally clean. I just can't see that happening in any world. I might not be playing a max effort game but I'm still playing my game. That being said, the pressure on me has felt more villager-driven than not, if that makes sense. Katze I'm kinda relying on others' meta who have said he's town, and no one else really had a problem with his approach to me, so. Sleep proooobably not with ladd, and my issue with him was his wall and that's a bit of a stale read. Ender I think is the bad apple in the bunch for essentially 3 reasons: 1) his push on me felt the most opportunistic, especially at EoD. 2) his case on me was so paint-by-numbers that I'd wager a large sum of money that no one ITT could paraphrase it without actually going back to look at it, and 3) there are a lot of interactions with ladd - some of which you've pointed out yourself - that feel like they aren't actually interested in solving each others' alignment. Couple of those that stood out to me in my catchup so far:
do you have a read on me/zack's push on you?
you seem to care more to argue the argument than to sort if we are wolves pushing you iyam
Nah Sunbae is more consensus w than v.
As I said tho, not really consensus reads exist, mine are only a bit out of whack with thread.
WRT Ladd I absolutely could see it. But I also think like, he's jumped onto this small thing like a bull terrier and hasn't even bothered to think deeper about it. Like he's got his excuse to push me, doesn't see any solid defense of me, so he's just happy to sit on it and exist without re-evalling.
The larger scale push on him exists but I haven't noticed anything with it that I thought was sus?
I think him walking it back would happen regardless of alignment, as he obviously didn't have a solid reason for it. But I feel like as town there would at least be an explanation of how he got there, instead of this vague "I thought about it and changed my mind." that doesn't tell us exactly how his brain jumped to that.
Next group, and this is where it starts to get a bit poorly defined, like you could put dobby there as well but w/e, is the kind of middle ground shrug group where they've been ~around but kind of nibbling around the edges. For me that's [cape, csargo, HK]. Proooobably 1 but no more in that group as well. Aaaaand I just read your post calling me underwhelming so you know what, fuck it. Speedrun it is. Cape/caargo probably not together. HK contrarian in a good way and people called him town for good reasons somewhere, I think, maybe I'll dig that up at some point.
The last group is everyone else, blah blah blah, they haven't been solving you can write this part yourself. Maybe I'll read them tomorrow.
Goodnight.
Oh yeah this was gonna be part of that too, just pretend those comments are fleshed out into appropriately Newcomb(TM) sounding sentences.
Rough list of antialignments:
Zack/Ender - early fluidity
Sunbae/Zack - wild treatment of me if w/w/w with ladd; careful respect+suspect type posts of each other early D1
Dobby/Sleep - dobby careful treatment + extra detail interacting with cape read, 116
Ender/HK - early antagonism didn't feel fake
Sunbae/HK - 238, timing
Cape/Rask - cape confusing rask for winston with the winston v flip
thanks for the breakdown, newcomb
the question I asked 4.5 hours ago that you hadn't acknowledged while continuing to post about other stuff...?
sorry I can't read your mind
I *literally said* I was gonna spend time backreading.
How long do you think it takes to read 1300 posts and then write a whole entire post talking about where my head's at?
thanks for the breakdown, newcomb
Uh huh, enjoy.
nebjiamn
04-24-2022, 06:24
Thanks Newc :thumb:
have a good night
I think Newcomb is the most important person for me to solve toDay and I feel confident in my ability to do so one way or another without just shrugging and flipping him. To start with a selfish read: I felt during day one that Newcomb was fine in the way he interacted and handled me. His concern on me stemmed from my discussions on Cape: multiple people started talking about their Cape issues and I came in with mine and it sounded hedgey yet specific in a way that Newcomb thought was laying bussing groundwork. I can understand this. How he handled it after saying it felt reasonable to me; express concern, don't press it or pile on, give me space, and try to calm me down when I was talking about how rattled I got.
Looking back on it, I think it's very easy to see that I was getting rattled by Ladd. Newcomb didn't really pile on, didn't really try and signal boost Ladd, and didn't start trying to have discussions about me with other people to either look good later (if he chose to defend me) nor to try and apply more pressure to me. It just felt right in the moment, and that's why I called him a villager yesterday.
The way Ladd handled Newcomb is interesting to me. He just basically cleared Newcomb off the bat and it kind of reminded me of the thing I picked up on Voxx doing to Newcomb in the old shadowhydra game where he just kind of assumed Newcomb would be villagery and snapped of a ?solving the game? type of read. I still feel like this is in play ? even though I understand it could be clearing a wolf bro and power wolfing ? because I don't think Ladd ever really tried to leverage his read into a hard Newcomb defense. People were suspecting Newcomb for much of the day and the way Ladd handled it reminds me more of a wolf trying to be right than a wolf trying to deflect pressure off a teammate.
There were other aspects during day one that made me feel good about Newcomb. The way he approached the Sleep/Cape interaction and asking Katze about the likelihood of the different worlds and what they would mean struck me as villaNewcomb trying to get a holistic and big picture view of the situation. I also thought the questioning of csargo's placement of Rask was done in a towny way where it was called out with a gif and then just didn't want to drop it and followed up on it with like another couple of posts and trying to figure out how that can happen in various worlds and what it means not just for csargo but their relation to rask as well.
Then you have a very hard press onto Newcomb from people I'm not really ? super towny on near eod. We'll get more onto them later. But once Winston started really pressing for Ladd there seemed to be a big counter press for Newcomb and I'm sketched out by it. Sure, it could just be town sections all landing on a different wolf and that's why it seems weird to me. Which is why I really need to get his alignment correct.
With all of this said, we have a d1 wolf flip of a very active and good wolf. I think if Newcomb is a villager it will be obvious as the day progresses. He'll dig into things, find good spew analysis, not paired worlds, and good big picture views of the game state. If not, I think I'll be able to look at his posts 24-36 hours into the phase and just say ?you don't care about solving anything and I was just wrong day 1?.
Right now I don't think I am? But we'll see.
I *literally said* I was gonna spend time backreading.
How long do you think it takes to read 1300 posts and then write a whole entire post talking about where my head's at?
what, I did not ask nor expect you to re-read the entire game and give a huge rundown (and idk how I was supposed to know you were doing that).
I'm confused at this anger, gonna just step away for a bit I guess
im restlessly looking over stuff in the thread because i dont want to stop thinking about stuff but not getting much with it, probably need to go to me
rn im at like: zack sunbae hk ender as top villagers
still liked ben on a reread of him - in particular i felt like he spent a lot of time day 1 defending sunbae and winston, who are confirmed villager and likely villager, and if hes a wolf doing that hes closing off doors while not really working to push a ML anywhere
guess which internet cat forgot about the game
not me
2 random thoughts i have
1. i think raskol got sorced last night
2. vote: benneh
nevermind i already kinda dont feel it
vote: unvote
I really have to take some time to think about Ender. My initial reaction upon Ladd's flip was they weren't paired but as I read the thread overnight one of Zack's posts kinda dinged in my head about how weak their interaction was for their levels of suspicion. Then I reread end of day and saw that for someone that suspected Ladd, they really went hard in the paint to go after Newcomb instead.
Again, maybe the answer is just town going after different wolves but my feeling of the gamestate right now is that it's not the case.
Then we have the interaction with myself. I thought we were pretty cool throughout most of day one. Then I got rattled, said something silly, and backed off of it. Ladd questioned me but so did many others. And once that questioning started, Ender shifted me really far down the list with some caveat of whatever my explanation was pending.
My response was “I'm not doing that.”, the pressure on me just kind of dissipated, and then Ender said something like I was a villager and they were trying to trap me or goad me into making up and excuse as a wolf while “lol no” was the answer “they were hoping for”.
It feels slimy and opportunistic to me.
But there were a lot of periods during the day that I felt Ender was totally fine. I know I got kinda poo poo'd a bit for not pushing Ender early but I didn't really find him wolfy. Is it possible that it was some elaborate trap attempt that I passed? Sure, I guess. But is that the more likely scenario than “saw a villager do something dumb, tried to get something going, backed off when others stopped, and then went back to ignoring them”? I'm not sure.
I think if Newcomb is a wolf, Ender is certainly a villager. I think if Newcomb is a villager, I'm going to need a really long and in depth discussion with Ender about a lot of aspects of how d1 played out.
I have a ?potentially bad read? that I believe with all of my heart. It's that Benneh/Neb was frozen as heck at end of day in a way that makes him a villager. He flat out said he didn't want to vote Rask at end of day, the wagons became Ladd/Newcomb/Rask, and he voted Rask and talked about having no guts.
My experience with Benneh is that I believe wolf Benneh in a Ladd W/Newcomb V world would have no qualms pushing Newcomb over the top. He even had a post about how fun would it be if we flipped v newcomb.
I believe wolf Benneh in a Rask W world would not go back on his ?don't want to vote Rask? comment so quickly with a villager wagon available.
I believe wolf Benneh in a Ladd W/Newcomb W world would not be talking about not wanting to kill Cuth/Ender/Rask (who all would be villagers here) given there weren't many other options outside of wolves.
I believe villager Benneh could easily stare at that end of day, kind of feel all these wagons suck for various reasons, not really want to kill Ladd/Newcomb d1, kinda think others are towny, and just throw his hands up and vote Rask as a safer option.
?Wolf Benneh would be more pro wolf? is a take that I'm sure some will disagree with but it's what I believe, sorry.
Cuthillius
04-24-2022, 06:46
cuth, i think i know, but why is ladd in parentheses here?
it was primarily a sheeped read
also he had some stronger stuff in earlier bit
but also he felt like he did in that one turbo we played semi-recently where we also killed him d1
in the sort of uh idk
i never felt awesome about it but i did think v-ish i think directly after his posting earlier plus oh someone was pushing him in a kinda weird way (not ender)
Cape90 : can you explain why you had ladd in your wolf leans yesterday?
I kinda felt like ladd's posts felt a little lacking (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828415&viewfull=1#post2053828415) or incomplete (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828310&viewfull=1#post2053828310) (I think the URLs should be swapped but too lazy to do so) and fell a bit short of what I have seen from ladd in mashes where ladd just is easily read as town, though I usually incorrectly scumread them, which is where the lack of confidence came from.
One part of this post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828547&viewfull=1#post2053828547) is kinda not content, but then there is this other part of the post that has content, and that felt kinda odd to me.
There was other stuff I noted after my initial ladd read, and I probably should have dived deeper.
vote:ender
maybe i randed wolf so much in these things that I forgot how to village lol
dunno game seems very hard to me now. I could see it going...a lot of different ways and am just down to get some flips
sleep will prob get villaread for his posts since i went to sleep but imo they are pretty bad. he really reminds me of myself when i have a wolfread as a wolf and i just keep forcing seeeing my wolfread's posts as wolfy instead of trying to see if i am possibly wrong
newcomb/hk are both bad wagons imo
I remembered this being ew. (simple reason: LAMIST)
#568 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828849&viewfull=1#post2053828849) was just soully bad, like I felt it in my soul though I do think I posted my reads before this? (I did but I noted it)
One thing I didn't note that should have probably been a dead giveaway was
I'll take the blame
feel free to push for me if you want btw
bleh.
But again, I wasnt here EOD
nebjiamn
04-24-2022, 06:48
I have a ?potentially bad read? that I believe with all of my heart. It's that Benneh/Neb was frozen as heck at end of day in a way that makes him a villager. He flat out said he didn't want to vote Rask at end of day, the wagons became Ladd/Newcomb/Rask, and he voted Rask and talked about having no guts.
My experience with Benneh is that I believe wolf Benneh in a Ladd W/Newcomb V world would have no qualms pushing Newcomb over the top. He even had a post about how fun would it be if we flipped v newcomb.
I believe wolf Benneh in a Rask W world would not go back on his ?don't want to vote Rask? comment so quickly with a villager wagon available.
I believe wolf Benneh in a Ladd W/Newcomb W world would not be talking about not wanting to kill Cuth/Ender/Rask (who all would be villagers here) given there weren't many other options outside of wolves.
I believe villager Benneh could easily stare at that end of day, kind of feel all these wagons suck for various reasons, not really want to kill Ladd/Newcomb d1, kinda think others are towny, and just throw his hands up and vote Rask as a safer option.
?Wolf Benneh would be more pro wolf? is a take that I'm sure some will disagree with but it's what I believe, sorry.
i don't think that's a bad read at all if i do say so myself
well ok, I just got concerned after looking d1 again and seeing how relatively unconcerned newcomb seemed at people suspecting him and wasn't engaged during EOD despite being a suspect too, then d2 posts were stuff that he is perfectly capable of churning out as a wolf, posts like 1284 seemd like wolfy anger that was similar to some posts in rocks. thought maybe I'd got too caught up in the reasons I was using to townread newcomb and was possibly missing the forest for the trees.
dunno if newcomb blows up at me like that as a wolf
prob exactly one in {ender, newcomb} if i had to take a guess
don't really feel like posting more, c yall in 12 hours or so
Cuthillius
04-24-2022, 06:50
i'm frankly shocked that people are still considering worlds in which ender is a wolf here
his progression on ladd makes basically no sense
and the way he's been playing is not how he'd play as a villager
idk if y'all are attributing playstyle differences to alignment-indicative stuff but its weird
and sorry for this tone but i am incredibly pooped atm i don't think it's ridiculous and people who think that are bad players or anything i just think it's pretty obvious from my reading
Squinting a little at the placement of ladd there
Oh I literally didn't order them, mostly I just kinda freeformed it
It's pretty obvious from the way I bolded my top scumreads. Not to mention I literally said that ladd was my least confident scumread, mostly because I usually always have a chip on my shoulder about them
Cuthillius
04-24-2022, 06:53
specifically in the context of my conversation with ender about these reads, for the record
i was super pushing at what i thought was meh justification for his read on ladd, which was a bit counter to thread consensus at the time, and his reaction is to explain a bit more reasoning behind the exact same justification and then feel super defensive and double down on that
this is not how a wolf, or at least not how ender in particular as a wolf, plays distancing
I think Dobby has ticked all the towny dobby things I look for - including having his own main wolf read, being somewhat against the grain, and making some reads based on feels/vibes like the monstrtown and me whishywashy villa/wolf mixed with more normal progression/contradiction ones.
nebjiamn
04-24-2022, 06:55
nevermind i already kinda dont feel it
vote: unvote
pocketed
also way to out as the sorc, dork
we've reached the stage of the game where im writing too many words that really dont matter and i feel like im wasting my time so instead ill just get me an orange juice and be more reactive rather than proactive for a while
lmao cuth
why would I be a wolf even Cuth lol?
im sold
nebjiamn
04-24-2022, 06:59
we've reached the stage of the game where im writing too many words that really dont matter and i feel like im wasting my time so instead ill just get me an orange juice and be more reactive rather than proactive for a while
they're helpful fwiw
but i get it. i wanna just go hang out and watch gilmore girls with the fam before i do much else with this game atm
why would i even have to have a reason to vote you?
as of 1036
Players Votes
Raskolnikov 3 (Monstrdude, Cuthillius, Montmorency)
Cuthillius 3 (katze, nebjiamn, Sleep)
Sleep 2 (ladd, Newcomb)
Enderwiggin 2 (Raskolnikov, zack)
hollowkatt 2 (Dobby, Csargo)
Csargo 2 (Cape90, hollowkatt)
Montmorency 1 (Sunbae)
ladd 1 (Winston Hughes)
Newcomb 1 (Enderwiggin)
What is Cuth doing here exactly?
ladd
newcomb
montmorency
all of these are good targets
:hide:
You for... I guess negative space? You've been pretty engaged and I haven't really felt any red flags. Although I'm not wild about your turnaround on me, but w/e.
The third group is the people that have been on my case off and on for most of the game. That's [katze, sleep, Ender]. 1-2 in that group IMO. I kinda think it's exactly one. Basically, I really, really, really doubt that the pressure on me has been totally clean. I just can't see that happening in any world. I might not be playing a max effort game but I'm still playing my game. That being said, the pressure on me has felt more villager-driven than not, if that makes sense. Katze I'm kinda relying on others' meta who have said he's town, and no one else really had a problem with his approach to me, so. Sleep proooobably not with ladd, and my issue with him was his wall and that's a bit of a stale read. Ender I think is the bad apple in the bunch for essentially 3 reasons: 1) his push on me felt the most opportunistic, especially at EoD. 2) his case on me was so paint-by-numbers that I'd wager a large sum of money that no one ITT could paraphrase it without actually going back to look at it, and 3) there are a lot of interactions with ladd - some of which you've pointed out yourself - that feel like they aren't actually interested in solving each others' alignment. Couple of those that stood out to me in my catchup so far:
alrighty i've read and digested this, and i like some bits of this wall but it also kind of encapsulates one of my grievances i've had with your slot all game ? but i'll get to that in a bit cause in the quotes i have a couple nitpicks
1. alright so like, i think i've only heard of one other person refer to a 'negative space' tell and it was... not to call someone a villager; it was them harping on in dvc about how X is an obvious wolf because of negative space... so i don't know if this is just different definitions since you are not ranmilia or if i'm misunderstanding it, but there's a distant screaming voice in my head saying that this is a super important thing to point out and ask what's up with that
2. i'm yet again not sold by a word you say about me. so like, earlier in the game i suspect you, and you respond with a post along the lines of "this is when i'm supposed to say that you don't have the balls to push me as a wolf, right?" which - yeah, okay, i can believe that. but then you go on to bring out this arbitrary "i think people who know of me would be willing to push me as a wolf more and i think katze might fit that criteria" read, which i am probably paraphrasing in a way to make it sound worse than it is but i still think is pretty bad. i was originally going to write a bit about how that post coexisting with the fact you're convinced a wolf MUST be pushing you is odd, but given EoD1 i've rescinded that thought because if you are a villager then there's good odds you're right about that.
anyway uh, so on day one your read on me is that i'm pushing you in bad faith, i fit the shoes of "the wolf who will push you for towncred", etc etc. and now your read on me today is like "yeah i guess nobody agreed with that. shrug. people are calling katze town off of meta so maybe they're just right.". and it's lazy.
maybe this is me again putting high expectations on you again, because i fully admit that i do have high expectations of you and if you were succdragon instead of newcomb i'd probably just shrug this wallpost off as villagery because i'm lazy. maybe this is me overestimating how much you know about me, or me being egotistical. i dunno.
but like, i'm pretty sure everybody who has expressed a townread on me has done so reluctantly because they know i'm a good wolf, some have flat out said it, some people might just find me wolfy, whatever. and then there's you, who almost died at the end of day 1 over ladd, and just apparently backread the entire game... and your read on the highest poster in the game, the person who has pushed you the most out of anyone, somebody who had a potentially extremely pivotal vote on you at the last moment of eod1, the person who you apparently suspected a decent chunk of the first day..........
Katze I'm kinda relying on others' meta who have said he's town, and no one else really had a problem with his approach to me, so.
weaksauce would be an understatement, tbh.
katze the way you're approaching this eod skeeves me out tbh
it feels like
oddly passive compared to the way you've approached the rest of the game and how i'd expect you to here
still do?
Cuthillius
04-24-2022, 07:06
What is Cuth doing here exactly?
being unnecessarily snarky
Rask specifically wanted a Sunbae wagon and not exactly a ladd wagon
I have a ?potentially bad read? that I believe with all of my heart. It's that Benneh/Neb was frozen as heck at end of day in a way that makes him a villager. He flat out said he didn't want to vote Rask at end of day, the wagons became Ladd/Newcomb/Rask, and he voted Rask and talked about having no guts.
My experience with Benneh is that I believe wolf Benneh in a Ladd W/Newcomb V world would have no qualms pushing Newcomb over the top. He even had a post about how fun would it be if we flipped v newcomb.
I believe wolf Benneh in a Rask W world would not go back on his ?don't want to vote Rask? comment so quickly with a villager wagon available.
I believe wolf Benneh in a Ladd W/Newcomb W world would not be talking about not wanting to kill Cuth/Ender/Rask (who all would be villagers here) given there weren't many other options outside of wolves.
I believe villager Benneh could easily stare at that end of day, kind of feel all these wagons suck for various reasons, not really want to kill Ladd/Newcomb d1, kinda think others are towny, and just throw his hands up and vote Rask as a safer option.
?Wolf Benneh would be more pro wolf? is a take that I'm sure some will disagree with but it's what I believe, sorry.
idt this is a bad read at all
pocketed
also way to out as the sorc, dork
im the n3 sorc :curtain:
Vote: raskolnikov
sorcerer target newcomb better, even ladd tbh
i wanna note dobby's vote here, though it might not even be scummy
I don't think Newcomb has attempted to pocket anybody in this game. Closest thing is probably me but saying "youre unlikely to be the d1 chop" really isn't much.
I don't think Newcomb has asked any irrelevant questions that he doesn't actually care about the answers to.
Unvote
more of the story comes in here where I am surprised that Mont didnt get vested for this :p
I don't think Newcomb has attempted to pocket anybody in this game. Closest thing is probably me but saying "youre unlikely to be the d1 chop" really isn't much.
I don't think Newcomb has asked any irrelevant questions that he doesn't actually care about the answers to.
oh yeah this reminds me about something i forgot to bring up in my last wall because im dumb
when i did ask him to explain his scumread on me he clarified something i had gotten wrong and then gave me a prompt about something he was thinking about but i don't really feel like he used that to solve me much at all
idd, hes not been really pockety except maybe towards ladd (which is probably a good look if anything) but i think there's still issue with his play
Does Hollowkatt give one iota of care about who wolves are in this game?
I am voting cuth rn. might move, dunno. I am puzzled
now if rask isnt vested I wonder about this comment on the might move thing since it looked like Rask was pretty confident that Cuth was wolf.
Does Hollowkatt give one iota of care about who wolves are in this game?
im not sure but i think he's town anyway
now if rask isnt vested I wonder about this comment on the might move thing since it looked like Rask was pretty confident that Cuth was wolf.
why is this conditional on him not being vested?
i just realized that that was a really stupid question
why is this conditional on him not being vested?
I was thinking along the lines of "oh rask is gonna die anyways if he has vest"
however, if they are indeed town with vest, they should answer :p
Basically I have reasons to feel good about:
Cuth, Dobby, Zack, Neb, sleep
You've got mont/rask that killed a wolf
I just think as of right now newc is villagery
zack has defended cape pretty hard and i trust him
cuth seems to be big on ender v
so like, out of dolby, hollowkat, katze, csargo is there 3 wolves?
seems unlikely
So am i wrong on newcomb?
possibly, but i dont *want* to be wrong on newcomb and i dont *want* to just shrug and write him off just to see his alignment
is zack wrong about cape?
is cuth wrong about ender?
did i clear sleep too lightly? i dont think so, ladd pressed there kinda hard and ended there.
did zack get me? i dont think so, i really liked his snap back at ladd and overall posting?
did someone bus ladd? maybe?
i was going to say taht i think me/hkatt/csargo/dolby is probably 4 villagers then i looked at the list above and was like "okay so wheres the mafia" and now im realizing that it's one of these games
vote: csargo
actually my reason to townread this slot is pretty bad come to think of it
So now I sit here and try to concoct a feel good grouping
I feel good about Dobby.
Dobby feels good about Dolby.
I feel good about Cuth.
Cuth feels good about Ender.
I feel good about Zack.
Zack feels good about Cape.
I feel good about Sleep.
Sleep also feels good about Ender.
Who feels good about Hollowkatt?
Who feels good about Katze?
So then I take a step back and say "ok, it's one of those games which means just stop beating your head into a wall and instead just ask 'who is trying to solve the game today'.
So now we just wait and see who that is as the day progresses
i was going to say taht i think me/hkatt/csargo/dolby is probably 4 villagers then i looked at the list above and was like "okay so wheres the mafia" and now im realizing that it's one of these games
why are those 4 all probably town? especially dolby
vote: csargo
actually my reason to townread this slot is pretty bad come to think of it
You're wasting your time
Who feels good about Katze?
you do, deep down, i believe in you
why are those 4 all probably town? especially dolby
i dont rly think hk/ladd are w/w and also think hk had some really villagery d1 posts
csargo i liked some of the questions he was asking d1 and there was something timing related i also liked but dont remember so im voting there
dolby i kinda explained earlier
maybe, i'm not sure if he says it if wolf tho? im not really used to wolves trying to clear me in fancy ways, or at all rly
and yea i don't think the outburst is AI and would prefer to pretend it didn't happen honestly, i thought his posts prior to it were lightly villagery cause i figure if he randed wolf after that game + the mash that he'd go for the easiest way out/do the bare minimum at all times and he had a few posts that felt like they weren't that
csargo, you're villa then?
You're wasting your time
luckily for me i have plenty of it to waste
sunbae if i told you i'd vote whoever you wanted me to vote who would you tell me to vote
the obvious answer is whoever ur voting rn but idk who that is, if anyone
I'm not voting anyone. I think if you read my posts I've been rather up front about where my head is at and why I'm pretty stuck at the moment. Think the correct play is to just wait and see what happens over the next 12 hours.
csargo, you're villa then?
Indeed, also Visor came to me in a dream.
I don't know what the optimum play is here, so you can all get mad at me if you want, but it's probably preferable for you all not to investigate someone who's a dead man already.
My mind is kinda split between two worlds right now: the one where newcomb is v and the one where newcomb is w.
If newcomb is a wolf I'll probably just punt Cape into the sun and tell Zack sorry. Ladd and Newc shading me/sleep after we pushed Cape would be the reason.
If newcomb is a villager I might go after you.
And you're not the backup csargo?
I'm not voting anyone. I think if you read my posts I've been rather up front about where my head is at and why I'm pretty stuck at the moment. Think the correct play is to just wait and see what happens over the next 12 hours.
yea fair enough. im p stuck too and just haven't written all that much of my brain thoughts out and i was hoping me asking you directly would give you a eureka moment or something
My mind is kinda split between two worlds right now: the one where newcomb is v and the one where newcomb is w.
If newcomb is a wolf I'll probably just punt Cape into the sun and tell Zack sorry. Ladd and Newc shading me/sleep after we pushed Cape would be the reason.
If newcomb is a villager I might go after you.
i think there's decent odds he's a villager just by virtue of being unaligned w/ ladd, even if i still take issue with a majority of his posting
Nah, no reason to be mad. Was hoping you were villa, glgl.
I'm sorc. Thought it was best to target a villager that wasn't being cleared by anyone. If I target a poe wolf they just blast the top villager and it's bad, hitting a villager in that spot clears out poe better and can still hit that same poe wolf (or a better one!). Figure it's correct for me to claim now since even if you're a wolf we have a backup and it can't be stopped.
And you're not the backup csargo?
I was given a vest, I'm just a vt
I felt so bad for Zack once I realized what was happening and he was wrong for very right reasons lol. That opener was fake af
Nah, no reason to be mad. Was hoping you were villa, glgl.
I'm sorc. Thought it was best to target a villager that wasn't being cleared by anyone. If I target a poe wolf they just blast the top villager and it's bad, hitting a villager in that spot clears out poe better and can still hit that same poe wolf (or a better one!). Figure it's correct for me to claim now since even if you're a wolf we have a backup and it can't be stopped.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/customavatars/avatar102062_3.gif
Nah, no reason to be mad. Was hoping you were villa, glgl.
I'm sorc. Thought it was best to target a villager that wasn't being cleared by anyone. If I target a poe wolf they just blast the top villager and it's bad, hitting a villager in that spot clears out poe better and can still hit that same poe wolf (or a better one!). Figure it's correct for me to claim now since even if you're a wolf we have a backup and it can't be stopped.
:bow:
read this thread no less than 4 times during the last 24 hours
kinda mad at myself for it lol
I felt so bad for Zack once I realized what was happening and he was wrong for very right reasons lol. That opener was fake af
lol u soab, I was thinking either you were exactly the sorcerer or a wolf because I don't believe that post for a second
I'm the backup :coffeenews:
hmmm...
sunbae, how confident are you in dobby being a villager?
wow i really wish these claims changed my worldview at all
Anyways:
Cuth/Rask/Mont were obviously not the choices. They voted out a wolf.
I debated Newcomb. Ended up thinking it was possible counterwagon newcomb could die in the night which would be terrible.
I didn't want to hit any of the newcomb pushers (Katze, Ender, Sleep) because if Newcomb is a wolf they should be pretty clear?
After reading I had villa reads on Dobby/Benneh/Zack and thought they were all villa read by multiple people.
That left a pool of Monstr, Cape, Hollowkatt, Csargo
I kinda think Monstr is a wolf and would feel bad to give a vest to Dolby on sub in.
Cape and HK had some vocal defenders.
Left csargo who i kinda thought was a villager after reading eod.
Not 100% sure I played this correctly, but shrug
https://i.imgur.com/E35rr3U.png
lol u soab, I was thinking either you were exactly the sorcerer or a wolf because I don't believe that post for a second
I'm the backup :coffeenews:
LOL
incredible. I was like "oh this is a cheeky post for my own amusement and should ensure I live". Then you said that was so out of character for me and I was like "ohhhh, thats very true but now I have to act like idk what he's talking about"
I kinda think Monstr is a wolf
:rtwyes:
thoughts on katze if newcomb is v? was the post saying "I'd vote you" in this world, "you" = katze?
but seriously, whats the point of the stalker?
Left csargo who i kinda thought was a villager after reading eod.
Not 100% sure I played this correctly, but shrug
imo you did, targeting PoEish villas is probably the best choice because it
1. clears the PoEish villa who had decent odds of dying to town controlled KP
2. gives town controlled KP to said villa, and frankly they can just sheep the clears anyway
still kinda calibrating my reads give me a sec
but seriously, whats the point of the stalker?
:creep:
:rtwyes:
thoughts on katze if newcomb is v? was the post saying "I'd vote you" in this world, "you" = katze?
yes
Because the end of day katze voted newcomb "because i dont like any of these other wagons"
the other wagons were
Newcomb 2 (Enderwiggin, Sleep)
Csargo 2 (Cape90, hollowkatt)
hollowkatt 2 (Dobby, Csargo)
Raskolnikov 2 (Monstrdude, Montmorency)
ladd 2 (Winston Hughes, Cuthillius)
Sleep 2 (ladd, Newcomb)
Cuthillius 1 (Raskolnikov)
Montmorency 1 (Sunbae)
Enderwiggin 1 (zack)
and katze had been pushing newcomb all day and i think if newcomb is v that is a post that makes no sense (theres so many wagons! you gotta like one of them! and you are brushing off your big vocal push of newcomb as if your hands are tied once its time to actually vote)
however, i recognize newcomb might be a wolf (i think im at the point where my head is saying its very possible and my heart is trying to keep me from it) in which case katze was a+ d1
I do think a POE villager getting the bomb and killing a wolf is the ideal outcome
and I know ppl said they didn't like both PRs claiming d2 but I still think it's optimal to do so :shrug:
hmmm...
sunbae, how confident are you in dobby being a villager?
I think if Dobby is a wolf the nuance on their read on me specifically just kinda blew me away. Like, post game I'd say "damn dobby, you got me good". I also think their stuff on HK is pretty reasonable and is something that kinda came up on their own in a way I feel good about. People weren't really pressing HK much at that point. Maybe a small thing here or there.
I do think a POE villager getting the bomb and killing a wolf is the ideal outcome
and I know ppl said they didn't like both PRs claiming d2 but I still think it's optimal to do so :shrug:
I kinda thought we should bucket it d1 but i wasnt gonna say so in a fun chill game lol
yes
Because the end of day katze voted newcomb "because i dont like any of these other wagons"
the other wagons were
Newcomb 2 (Enderwiggin, Sleep)
Csargo 2 (Cape90, hollowkatt)
hollowkatt 2 (Dobby, Csargo)
Raskolnikov 2 (Monstrdude, Montmorency)
ladd 2 (Winston Hughes, Cuthillius)
Sleep 2 (ladd, Newcomb)
Cuthillius 1 (Raskolnikov)
Montmorency 1 (Sunbae)
Enderwiggin 1 (zack)
and katze had been pushing newcomb all day and i think if newcomb is v that is a post that makes no sense (theres so many wagons! you gotta like one of them! and you are brushing off your big vocal push of newcomb as if your hands are tied once its time to actually vote)
however, i recognize newcomb might be a wolf (i think im at the point where my head is saying its very possible and my heart is trying to keep me from it) in which case katze was a+ d1
i didn't want to vote newcomb at eod because... i was scared of voting out v!newcomb d1 and being that idiot who tunneled v!newcomb d1 and then probably get bombed or yeeted for it
i voted them because i had varying degrees of townreads on basically every other wagon at the time except cuth, kinda ladd as well but i didn't rly scumread him either so i didn't want to vote him for similar reasons to newcomb but uh, without the part where i thought he probably flipped mafia
but seriously, whats the point of the stalker?
I'm unsure
i didn't want to vote newcomb at eod because... i was scared of voting out v!newcomb d1 and being that idiot who tunneled v!newcomb d1 and then probably get bombed or yeeted for it
i voted them because i had varying degrees of townreads on basically every other wagon at the time except cuth, kinda ladd as well but i didn't rly scumread him either so i didn't want to vote him for similar reasons to newcomb but uh, without the part where i thought he probably flipped mafia
I totally understand that. I was too chicken to actually vote ladd lol
Any chance you can break down each of them and why you v read them?
csargo, best of luck. i believe in you <3
can we just chop zack?
no lol
:bow:
what, I did not ask nor expect you to re-read the entire game and give a huge rundown (and idk how I was supposed to know you were doing that).
I'm confused at this anger, gonna just step away for a bit I guess
I lied I can't stay away.
You didn't ask me what I thought of the last page, or EoD, or a specific post, you asked for an "overview of where my head's at". Idk how else to interpret that as anything but an evaluation of the overall state of the game. I wasn't doing it solely for you, I wanted to get my thoughts in order and on paper for me, too, but yeah some of it was like, doing you a favor. So it was unbelievably frustrating to check the thread in the middle of like, writing this long post alternating with reading the first 500ish posts and see you call me underwhelming.
I don't get it, I really don't. I've been doing my best to ignore it from the peanut gallery but apparently this was the straw the broke the camel's back, and you caught the brunt of it, and for that I apologize.
Fucking underwhelming man. I think I've been called some version of that in like the last 5 games I've played. I really thought in this game in particular it wouldn't be an issue, since it was literally billed as being a casual game to pass the time. Like the fuck kind of standard am I being held to here? I could call every single person in this game underwhelming if I wanted to, relative to some arbitrary standard of perfect villager. Hell I could probably spin a fairly... I was gonna say convincing but ok, how about "reasonable looking" case on you for like a ratio of words:impact on the game type thing, if I really really wanted to.
I honestly don't get it.
Anyway, you have my apology for snapping at you, I was frustrated but you didn't deserve to get the brunt of it. I've been holding back some frustration since - again, it's supposed to be a pretty casual game - but the Death By A Thousand Cuts of stuff like katz jumping in at EoD to go "Newcomb was SO DIFFERENT when he was about to get mislynched in the season 3 wildcard game reunion!!!!!" Like yeah no shit sherlock, you're telling me I reacted differently in a game that was a reunion of one of the most high skill/intensity games I've ever played and was sitting at a computer banging out a last will and testament after like 3 game days of information and flips, versus a casual game whose EoD is at 5 PM my time, and it's D1 and I'm following a flashwagon on my phone at work? I'm shocked. SHOCKED.
So yeah, just hit a bit of a fuck it moment there. Sorry.
Who do you peeps wanna blow up? I've honestly got no clue what the best option is here.
I totally understand that. I was too chicken to actually vote ladd lol
Any chance you can break down each of them and why you v read them?
yea lemme find the VC when i posted that
these wagons fucking suck
well part of it was the fact that every wagon was 2 or 1 vote
but
sleep: cape case + villagery overall + unaligned w newcomb
newcomb: wowee
csargo: said it earlier but probably remembered it better back then + felt shrugyeety
raskol: felt miles better than wolfgame i saw from him + shrugyeety
i didnt really want to vote a 1 vote wagon either just because of the wagon formations but i didn't really like any of them either
ladd: said earlier + ladd
monty: thought they had a rly villagery post near eod, forgot which but if you read my iso near eod i remember telling winston to take him off his vote list
winston+ender: honestly dont remember
cuth: actually was okay with that one
vote: dolby
lettuce sheep the clears
I have a ?potentially bad read? that I believe with all of my heart. It's that Benneh/Neb was frozen as heck at end of day in a way that makes him a villager. He flat out said he didn't want to vote Rask at end of day, the wagons became Ladd/Newcomb/Rask, and he voted Rask and talked about having no guts.
My experience with Benneh is that I believe wolf Benneh in a Ladd W/Newcomb V world would have no qualms pushing Newcomb over the top. He even had a post about how fun would it be if we flipped v newcomb.
I believe wolf Benneh in a Rask W world would not go back on his ?don't want to vote Rask? comment so quickly with a villager wagon available.
I believe wolf Benneh in a Ladd W/Newcomb W world would not be talking about not wanting to kill Cuth/Ender/Rask (who all would be villagers here) given there weren't many other options outside of wolves.
I believe villager Benneh could easily stare at that end of day, kind of feel all these wagons suck for various reasons, not really want to kill Ladd/Newcomb d1, kinda think others are towny, and just throw his hands up and vote Rask as a safer option.
?Wolf Benneh would be more pro wolf? is a take that I'm sure some will disagree with but it's what I believe, sorry.
I can vibe with that. I townread bennah for other reasons but I think this tracks. If I'd been in thread at the time I'd have felt similarly. It just didn't really feel like there were any great places to go. Ladd was too much of a risk, and Rask was just a shrug no info kill.
Who do you peeps wanna blow up? I've honestly got no clue what the best option is here.
Honestly, I have no idea. I think you should trust yourself and give it your best shot. I think you have a better handle on things than I do at the moment. I'm cool chatting through some things if you have specific thoughts but I've always been a big believer in "let the shooters shoot and itll work out"
Anyway, you have my apology for snapping at you, I was frustrated but you didn't deserve to get the brunt of it. I've been holding back some frustration since - again, it's supposed to be a pretty casual game - but the Death By A Thousand Cuts of stuff like katz jumping in at EoD to go "Newcomb was SO DIFFERENT when he was about to get mislynched in the season 3 wildcard game reunion!!!!!" Like yeah no shit sherlock, you're telling me I reacted differently in a game that was a reunion of one of the most high skill/intensity games I've ever played and was sitting at a computer banging out a last will and testament after like 3 game days of information and flips, versus a casual game whose EoD is at 5 PM my time, and it's D1 and I'm following a flashwagon on my phone at work? I'm shocked. SHOCKED.
you are probably right to be annoyed by that i was getting it out because - while the situations were very different and i was well aware of that - i still kind of came around to your lack-of-fucks being really weird. it wasnt a smoking gun so much as it was "please look at this closer if im not alive tomorrow hold newcomb to more scrutiny"
and you are also probably right that i am not exactly casually gaming this game
i'm frankly shocked that people are still considering worlds in which ender is a wolf here
his progression on ladd makes basically no sense
and the way he's been playing is not how he'd play as a villager
idk if y'all are attributing playstyle differences to alignment-indicative stuff but its weird
and sorry for this tone but i am incredibly pooped atm i don't think it's ridiculous and people who think that are bad players or anything i just think it's pretty obvious from my reading
Sorry are you calling him a wolf or a villager here? Second and third lines say wolf, first says villager, first just a typo?
Newcomb,
For what it's worth, regardless of your alignment, I wouldn't classify you as underwhelming and I've been really happy with getting to play with you more. Like I read your iso multiple times and vibed with a lot of it.
alrighty i've read and digested this, and i like some bits of this wall but it also kind of encapsulates one of my grievances i've had with your slot all game ? but i'll get to that in a bit cause in the quotes i have a couple nitpicks
1. alright so like, i think i've only heard of one other person refer to a 'negative space' tell and it was... not to call someone a villager; it was them harping on in dvc about how X is an obvious wolf because of negative space... so i don't know if this is just different definitions since you are not ranmilia or if i'm misunderstanding it, but there's a distant screaming voice in my head saying that this is a super important thing to point out and ask what's up with that
2. i'm yet again not sold by a word you say about me. so like, earlier in the game i suspect you, and you respond with a post along the lines of "this is when i'm supposed to say that you don't have the balls to push me as a wolf, right?" which - yeah, okay, i can believe that. but then you go on to bring out this arbitrary "i think people who know of me would be willing to push me as a wolf more and i think katze might fit that criteria" read, which i am probably paraphrasing in a way to make it sound worse than it is but i still think is pretty bad. i was originally going to write a bit about how that post coexisting with the fact you're convinced a wolf MUST be pushing you is odd, but given EoD1 i've rescinded that thought because if you are a villager then there's good odds you're right about that.
anyway uh, so on day one your read on me is that i'm pushing you in bad faith, i fit the shoes of "the wolf who will push you for towncred", etc etc. and now your read on me today is like "yeah i guess nobody agreed with that. shrug. people are calling katze town off of meta so maybe they're just right.". and it's lazy.
maybe this is me again putting high expectations on you again, because i fully admit that i do have high expectations of you and if you were succdragon instead of newcomb i'd probably just shrug this wallpost off as villagery because i'm lazy. maybe this is me overestimating how much you know about me, or me being egotistical. i dunno.
but like, i'm pretty sure everybody who has expressed a townread on me has done so reluctantly because they know i'm a good wolf, some have flat out said it, some people might just find me wolfy, whatever. and then there's you, who almost died at the end of day 1 over ladd, and just apparently backread the entire game... and your read on the highest poster in the game, the person who has pushed you the most out of anyone, somebody who had a potentially extremely pivotal vote on you at the last moment of eod1, the person who you apparently suspected a decent chunk of the first day..........
weaksauce would be an understatement, tbh.
https://media1.giphy.com/media/szPZ2NXIGCMcE/giphy.gif
I was expecting like a quick paragraph lol, i mean fmpov it felt like I was the one defending you all d1 and then you ignored my question trying to get a sense of where you were at. had no idea you were going balls deep re-reading the whole thread to go super in-depth (if you indicated this somewhere ig i completely missed that, sorry)
and i panicked a bit like oh shit what if i'm wrong, everyone else is right, and newcombs a wolf and i just townread him because i want to be v/v and leveled myself on some things :curtain:
looking at the playerlist i kinda do think dolby is the correct person to blow up
newcomb if you're a villager i think the communication gap between us is that we define "casually" differently
or that im bad
but i also don't think me trying to solve you is obsessing over you
maybe by other peoples standards but i'm a foler so *posts the alison pasta*
For Zack's eyes only
https://i.imgur.com/u2Vq722.png
For Zack's eyes only
https://i.imgur.com/u2Vq722.png
:laugh4:
glad i wasn't being too ridiculous reading into an opener like that
Ok, I've kinda bombarded this thread today during my wind down hours. Probably should have held off some but I was just feeling enjoyable about werewolf after a wolf chop and rereading the thread overnight.
I'ma get some sleep. I'll be back around during the day for a bit tomorrow but I'll probably be posting more like d1 than tonight for the rest of the day.
Katze, I read it, thanks. Will chew on it.
Csargo, no rush. Take your time. If you fire before I return, good luck! If not, I'll talk through anything you're interested in when I return.
later gators
:hide:
I don't understand cuth's read on ender, for the record (as in, why he's so confident and I cna't follow the reasoning either)
if newcomb is v then ender looks pretty dang wolfy to me :creep:
Ugh fine I'll respond to that. Just know that this is not something I usually do and you're getting the benefit of some residual guilt w/r/t Zack
1. alright so like, i think i've only heard of one other person refer to a 'negative space' tell and it was... not to call someone a villager; it was them harping on in dvc about how X is an obvious wolf because of negative space... so i don't know if this is just different definitions since you are not ranmilia or if i'm misunderstanding it, but there's a distant screaming voice in my head saying that this is a super important thing to point out and ask what's up with that .
... okay I don't know how to respond to that. Was there a question there? Like... Zack is town because he's posted a lot of stuff and I haven't found any of it wolfy, and generally wolves who post that much I find something wolfy about? Generally "negative space" is like, the important thing is what ISN'T there, not what IS there. In this case what's not there is him being wolfy? Right? Like I'm kinda baffled what's confusing about that or even what you're getting at with this. The fuck does ranmilla have to do with anything ITT?
but like, i'm pretty sure everybody who has expressed a townread on me has done so reluctantly because they know i'm a good wolf, some have flat out said it, some people might just find me wolfy, whatever. and then there's you, who almost died at the end of day 1 over ladd, and just apparently backread the entire game... and your read on the highest poster in the game, the person who has pushed you the most out of anyone, somebody who had a potentially extremely pivotal vote on you at the last moment of eod1, the person who you apparently suspected a decent chunk of the first day..........
I'm really sorry if this sounds like... uhh dismissive or bad or something but man I don't know you, I don't know how you play. I mentored you one time like 3 years ago and while I remember some of the theory we talked about IIRC you were a villager in that game. You mentioned a champs game on D1 like it was something I'd know, but I haven't read or really even followed champs for like 2 years now. I'm sure you're an awesome wolf I just don't like, have that in my air supply.
I'm not exactly expressing a townread on you, I'm expressing a "I held a wolfread on you for as long as it made sense, and my attention has now wandered onto other things" read.
If you're looking for more than that idk what to tell you. I'll get to you when and if something occurs to me.
i wanna note dobby's vote here, though it might not even be scummy
This reminds me, I want to go look at dobby telling the sorc to target me. I had like... feelings about it. I'm not entirely sure "target newcomb because if he's a wolf cool if he's town he'll make a good decision" is entirely something I believe a villager really thought, but... maybe.
lmao, okay i absolutely am overestimating how OOTL you are on stuff/being egotistical/something along those lines
alright i think i'm just going to stop obsessing over you and leave you to your own devices for both of our sakes
This reminds me, I want to go look at dobby telling the sorc to target me. I had like... feelings about it. I'm not entirely sure "target newcomb because if he's a wolf cool if he's town he'll make a good decision" is entirely something I believe a villager really thought, but... maybe.
I've mentioned this before I think but the way he amended that to include an and also ladd btw clause right as ladd was getting run up... my spidey senses tingled :spider:
lmao, okay i absolutely am overestimating how OOTL you are on stuff/being egotistical/something along those lines
alright i think i'm just going to stop obsessing over you and leave you to your own devices for both of our sakes
er, underestimating not overestimating
(and to answer the question, ranmilia was who i was talking about with the spec chat analogy and i guess i missed a spot cause i decided to edit out her name since it wasnt relevant)
oh yeah this reminds me about something i forgot to bring up in my last wall because im dumb
when i did ask him to explain his scumread on me he clarified something i had gotten wrong and then gave me a prompt about something he was thinking about but i don't really feel like he used that to solve me much at all
idd, hes not been really pockety except maybe towards ladd (which is probably a good look if anything) but i think there's still issue with his play
You didn't answer the part I was interested in. At that time, my head was at the sleep/cape dichotomy and how the thread was responding to them, the general flow around it. I was running through like, what wolves would be potentially thinking if that was a v/v spat vs if one of them was a wolf.
I wanted to see you kind of like, think out loud along those lines. Instead you gave me a long thing talking about essentially your reads on them as individuals and said you weren't good at reading threadflow.
So yeah I didn't really get much out of it, didn't super feel like pressing you on it, and moved on.
Nah, no reason to be mad. Was hoping you were villa, glgl.
I'm sorc. Thought it was best to target a villager that wasn't being cleared by anyone. If I target a poe wolf they just blast the top villager and it's bad, hitting a villager in that spot clears out poe better and can still hit that same poe wolf (or a better one!). Figure it's correct for me to claim now since even if you're a wolf we have a backup and it can't be stopped.
Glad I was right about that at least.
And thank god now I don't have to worry about that stuff you said about me a little bit ago being a second pocket attempt from a strong wolf.
lol u soab, I was thinking either you were exactly the sorcerer or a wolf because I don't believe that post for a second
I'm the backup :coffeenews:
Oof well that's awkward timing.
I'm torn between being angry that I have confirmation you genuinely think I'm underwhelming and being happy we have another clear.
I think happy wins out? I'm kind of glad I didn't finish my catchup actually; doing it with 3 greens and a red is a lot better than doing it with a red.
Oof well that's awkward timing.
I'm torn between being angry that I have confirmation you genuinely think I'm underwhelming and being happy we have another clear.
I think happy wins out? I'm kind of glad I didn't finish my catchup actually; doing it with 3 greens and a red is a lot better than doing it with a red.
well fwiw if I knew you were about to drop a bomb I def wouldn't have said underwhelming (I believe I did only specify d2, so if you were spending a lot of time on that it makes sense)
you think I haven't done anything except not be wolfy! :sweatdrop: :love:
Who do you peeps wanna blow up? I've honestly got no clue what the best option is here.
MonstrDolby is the safe choice that no one will blame you for if he flips v.
You probably don't want to go *too* off-script and absolutely hero something, but there's room for a middle ground here.
i keep trying to write out a thought dump so i can just go to bed because this games hurting my head
finding wolves is hard
which probably means im clearing someone for a dumb reason
and my dumbest reads are probably raskol and dolby
and raskol voted ladd at eod1
the alternative is that im sheeping someone clearing a wolf which would be like, cape or dobby
if i ignore the sheeping then im kinda conflicted on both of those names
so my sleepy ass is in favor of just bombing dolby and working from there
gn
actually you can add enderwiggin to the "dumb reads" list because half of it is based off a preflip
gn for real
Newcomb,
For what it's worth, regardless of your alignment, I wouldn't classify you as underwhelming and I've been really happy with getting to play with you more. Like I read your iso multiple times and vibed with a lot of it.
https://i.gifer.com/SaNN.gif
Live view of Csargo:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/03/Aybabtu.png
Live view of Dolby:
https://legendsoflocalization.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/zero-wing-english-translation2.png
Csargo (Vanilla Town) has exploded Dolby (Mafia Goon).
Sup
Live view of Csargo:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/03/Aybabtu.png
Live view of Dolby:
https://legendsoflocalization.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/zero-wing-english-translation2.png
Csargo (Vanilla Town) has exploded Dolby (Mafia Goon).
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
https://i.imgur.com/mcHkaP9.gif
Not really sure how much that changes the calculous other than it being more evidence of an "easy world" type game. 2 down d2 always good though.
Did csargo really just fire without leaving like a legacy or spicy gif or anything?
Just literally hipfire bag a wolf and peace huh.
What a legend
I'm keeping an updated playerlist with flips in the OP now, for easy reference. Will do a tally shortly.
Montmorency
04-24-2022, 09:08
I literally just glanced at the thread to see how much I should cry about the activity level, but now I need to log in to express what a fucking hero Csargo is. Do me next.
Sup
Live view of Csargo:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/03/Aybabtu.png
https://i.imgur.com/cHQbS2L.gif
https://i.imgur.com/GWmVl5R.gif
Told ya there was something fishy about Monstrdude btw.
Sup
Oh my god the timing
I'm dying lmao
I'm gonna call it a night here I think.
Fantastic time to do some re-reading though. Between the flips and clears that's a /ton/ of new potential info.
I think katze might be a wolf btw. their defense / reason for townreading dolby today was ... pretty rough
:juggle:
Players Votes
EnderWiggin 1 (zack)
nebjiamn 1 (Montmorency)
Montmorency 1 (Cuthillius)
1440
just seems like a p shallow reason to write the three of us off as town
i think dolby's wallpost kinda stinks
:shrug:
vote: dolby
this guy is probably town
Cuthillius
04-24-2022, 09:34
Sorry are you calling him a wolf or a villager here? Second and third lines say wolf, first says villager, first just a typo?
*makes no sense if teamed
*not the way he'd play as a wolf
Raskolnikov
04-24-2022, 10:17
Vote: Dobby
There can only be one
lmao. Sup Dolby.
overnight thoughts: ladd's wagon is pure. Winston Hughes is a hero. I remember thinking Dobby looked good on EOD reread but can't really put a finger on it rn, may be suggesting a ladd cfd or something.
sleep/katze linked to newcomb's smh.
Benneh lean wolf.
*reads*
Raskolnikov
04-24-2022, 10:18
oh f me, I am 300 posts behind.
Raskolnikov
04-24-2022, 10:23
if there was a bus, it was Monty driving but yeah, I actually think Monty is town for now.
Raskolnikov
04-24-2022, 10:29
I still want Ender to die tbh. Kill him and boom bye Benneh. or the other way around.
Raskolnikov
04-24-2022, 10:30
zack/newcomb villagery at SOD2
Raskolnikov
04-24-2022, 10:41
i think dolby's wallpost kinda stinks
:shrug:
kinda. I feel the wolf!Dolby energy lmao (Dolby you will hate this read :D)
Raskolnikov
04-24-2022, 11:14
Winston kinda rocked it with the ladd thing tbh
sorry I wasn't here for EOD, would have hopped off Csargo if so (not really sure if I would have voted ladd or Rask in that situation, probs not Newcomb). But I was eating dinner out and i was away from cell signal. But dang I had this kinda asian style curry from like this pho place and it's so good. I am having the leftovers right now, man it smells good dude.
Anywho I shall be catching up
asian style curry wolfy NGL
Raskolnikov
04-24-2022, 11:20
Winston Hughes, Cuthillius, Montmorency, Raskolnikov
is a very strange list to me of people that voted on ladd. Especially since someone like benneh has obviously had a lot of experience with ladd and his meta
nothing but the best tbh.
Cuth locktown
me villa even if I mostly selfpressed
Monty's unvote is kinda weird, but dunno. don't wanna read into it too much rn because it could go both way. He put ladd in position in the first place (from which vote? need to check) I guess.
WH hero
why is Benneh mentionned here? Cape90
Raskolnikov
04-24-2022, 11:26
I low key hate like the last 20 posts in Raskols ISO and would not be sad if he were to blow up.
ikr tbh
Which ones specifically and why?
Raskolnikov
04-24-2022, 11:29
Rask has no problem with bussing? Don't think I've ever seen him as a woof.
Mario Mafia 1 at CFC maybe?
omg I knew Dolby was up to no good with that really easy to make ladd spew wall whatever bull
haha dude didnt wanna say that sleep looked the most clear like 1 million times over from the spew either!
i think dolby's wallpost kinda stinks
:shrug:
I can't believe I stole this thought (i actually didnt know zack said anything first on it :sweatdrop:)
nothing but the best tbh.
Cuth locktown
me villa even if I mostly selfpressed
Monty's unvote is kinda weird, but dunno. don't wanna read into it too much rn because it could go both way. He put ladd in position in the first place (from which vote? need to check) I guess.
WH hero
why is Benneh mentionned here? Cape90
I feel like you have a lot of experience with ladd in turbos and such to where you would easily pick up when ladd is mafia. Heck, even I had my suspicions there, though I did express I wasn't confident in that admittedly.
thx for the admission that you are not reading :book2:
also Winston kinda did that, not Monty
If you're so convinced I'm town, why do you seem so unimpressed by my case?
Caveat that I've skimmed very vaguely so if I missed something I apologise, but it feels like you've slapped this great big townread on me but have also completely ignored my actual push and has put a weak af townread on Newcomb
this literally feels like an empty question
you can townread somebody but still not like a case that that town provides
Like, Cuth, I can understand if you disagree with it. But kinda feels weird if you just don't acknowledge it.
okay but didnt you just kinda say in that last post i quoted
like
you acknowledged that cuth was unimpressed by the case, which would imply at least acknowledgment.
Maybe what I am saying is poopy head material and you meant something else but shrugze
on the topic of Montmorency and the ladd wagon.
please look at #961 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829254&viewfull=1#post2053829254) and #964 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829257&viewfull=1#post2053829257)
like Mont goes from outright shading Winston for the vote on ladd, to joining Winston by EOD. I am either paranoid at an obvtown move or I am Sherlock Holmes
I honestly thought Monty would call me a woof and snap vote me. Instead they just called me a woof or like lightly implied it I guess. ~:confused:
Winston's way far out in super happy fun time land, and I have no idea what to make of that.
Now I want an elaboration on a post that I will literally never get
i sheeped sleep
it was a decent case for the early game
i was wondering about what someone else said, don't remember who was saying what but...
Bah I am literally a necromancer right now...
my brain is telling me to be a hero and vote newcomb
someone tell me thats a bad idea and that i should feel stupid for having it
Vote: Newcomb
im ngl I kinda like this sequence with benneh immediately voting Newcomb after katze's sugestion
Live view of Dolby:
https://legendsoflocalization.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/zero-wing-english-translation2.png
Csargo (Vanilla Town) has exploded Dolby (Mafia Goon).
lmao
For Zack's eyes only
https://i.imgur.com/u2Vq722.png
im ngl
that was my exact thought about the opening when i saw it
i think rask is almost certainly v now
wow i really wish these claims changed my worldview at all
:yes:
I have a ?potentially bad read? that I believe with all of my heart. It's that Benneh/Neb was frozen as heck at end of day in a way that makes him a villager. He flat out said he didn't want to vote Rask at end of day, the wagons became Ladd/Newcomb/Rask, and he voted Rask and talked about having no guts.
My experience with Benneh is that I believe wolf Benneh in a Ladd W/Newcomb V world would have no qualms pushing Newcomb over the top. He even had a post about how fun would it be if we flipped v newcomb.
I believe wolf Benneh in a Rask W world would not go back on his ?don't want to vote Rask? comment so quickly with a villager wagon available.
I believe wolf Benneh in a Ladd W/Newcomb W world would not be talking about not wanting to kill Cuth/Ender/Rask (who all would be villagers here) given there weren't many other options outside of wolves.
I believe villager Benneh could easily stare at that end of day, kind of feel all these wagons suck for various reasons, not really want to kill Ladd/Newcomb d1, kinda think others are towny, and just throw his hands up and vote Rask as a safer option.
?Wolf Benneh would be more pro wolf? is a take that I'm sure some will disagree with but it's what I believe, sorry.
we've reached the stage of the game where im writing too many words that really dont matter and i feel like im wasting my time so instead ill just get me an orange juice and be more reactive rather than proactive for a while
if nothing else its good champs practice!
and fwiw the ben read kind of expresses what i was saying earlier in a much more eloquent way, except that i was looking more at his play over the course of the day rather than eod specifically. it feels like if hes a wolf he hasnt really been trying to get villagers killed.
i think rask is almost certainly v now
oh...
I think I see the same thing you are seeing :hide:
its not really complicated, rask fos'd monstr and monstr immediately got defensive over it (not reading into the toxicity just the general dynamic there being not w/w)
I was thinking the interaction with Dolby after Dolby died making it look like Rask didnt realize that Dolby was dead (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829761&viewfull=1#post2053829761).
but we could go with that too i suppose
Hi i celebrate easter today and its kind of a big deal for my family so I'll be gone the full day
Lmao wait was dolby wolf
I was pretty sure monstr wouldn't play like that as wolf but I'm also bad at this game, wp csargo
I saw a comment last night too from hk about me "not playing" or something which is kinda lol, Day 2 I was pretty much top posting, it's a weird approach from the one I pushed the hardest, I wasn't really discrete about it
And the questions about my eod (yes I ctrl f my name because why not), are like, I preferred hk, couldn't get it through, tried rask because those are prolly the two that have pinged me the most - didn't work. If it was between ladd and newcomb I preferred ladd (I want to write by far but that would prolly be an exaggeration, I didn't reflect upon which of those two I wanted dead until the wagons became just those two ppl)
I think benneh is prolly still my top town, and from what I've skimmed cuth looks even better now imo
Idk what else for now, from what I've skimmed I don't think my reads have changed.hugely
zack peepee poopoo
This reminds me, I want to go look at dobby telling the sorc to target me. I had like... feelings about it. I'm not entirely sure "target newcomb because if he's a wolf cool if he's town he'll make a good decision" is entirely something I believe a villager really thought, but... maybe.
I mean I stand by this still lol, I was very flipflop about you because I don't have much experience with you other than skimming a few of your games, and it's hard to put myself in your mofia mindset
I've mentioned this before I think but the way he amended that to include an and also ladd btw clause right as ladd was getting run up... my spidey senses tingled :spider:
Oh and if nobody pointed this out it would've been weird
I still think my case on hk is like one of the most hello this is just a wolf, in the game, and really think more people should look at that
Might as well do this again
Vote: hollowkatt
Imma go visit grandma and stuff now, bai
I was thinking the interaction with Dolby after Dolby died making it look like Rask didnt realize that Dolby was dead (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829761&viewfull=1#post2053829761).
but we could go with that too i suppose
thats entirely NAI imho, not realizing someone is dead can happen as either alignment, not like wolves r plugged into wolfchat 24/7
hiollows only statements about ladd day 1 were to say he has no read on him and not follow up, which is Interesting.
i feel bad because he was the primary pusher of monstrslot and, in my mind its not clearing at all
little bit of read stagnation on him for me as hes fallen off a bit but idk
hollowkatt
04-24-2022, 16:01
I saw a comment last night too from hk about me "not playing" or something which is kinda lol, Day 2 I was pretty much top posting, it's a weird approach from the one I pushed the hardest, I wasn't really discrete about it
And the questions about my eod (yes I ctrl f my name because why not), are like, I preferred hk, couldn't get it through, tried rask because those are prolly the two that have pinged me the most - didn't work. If it was between ladd and newcomb I preferred ladd (I want to write by far but that would prolly be an exaggeration, I didn't reflect upon which of those two I wanted dead until the wagons became just those two ppl)
I think benneh is prolly still my top town, and from what I've skimmed cuth looks even better now imo
Idk what else for now, from what I've skimmed I don't think my reads have changed.hugely
zack peepee poopoo
no, I said you were so unmemorable it is like you're not playing.
hollowkatt
04-24-2022, 16:02
also lulz on me for being wrong on csargo but gg me for being right on monstr/dolby
hollowkatt
04-24-2022, 16:37
thats entirely NAI imho, not realizing someone is dead can happen as either alignment, not like wolves r plugged into wolfchat 24/7
I know that Raskol is a busy man IRL but I've never known him to neglect wolf chat. You could ask dolby but he's dead.
no, I said you were so unmemorable it is like you're not playing.
Thats on you cuz I think I've been all over the game lol
hollowkatt
04-24-2022, 16:38
Thats on you cuz I think I've been all over the game lol
sure.
hollowkatt
04-24-2022, 16:44
I'll read your ISO dobby and let you know what I think of you.
nebjiamn
04-24-2022, 16:54
csargo :2thumbsup:
i really want to look at the folks who just randomly cleared monstr for nothing.
i also think monstr had some posts toward ... rask? that probably clear him.
and he had a post to sleep that looks like he knew who sleep was (probably a shot in the dark but lemme go take a look anywho)
nebjiamn
04-24-2022, 16:58
This isn't a real thought it was one post
vote: hollowkat
this looks p good for HK ikn addition to his post having a) no read on ladd but expressing wanting to and b) expressing a wolf read on monstr. although if HK IS a wolf it'd be pretty dope if cuth was the 4th considering that last paragraph
nebjiamn
04-24-2022, 17:00
Wolfiest of the first few posters :sparkleshrug:
this defintely feels like "lets pile on early suspicion on v!ender that ladd and others started" rather than "lets get some bus cred that ladd started" -- ender prob clear
nebjiamn
04-24-2022, 17:03
Feels off to me
Caveat I don't think I know you that well
the wording here is so interesting
i know a few people have claimed to know who sleep is but this just feels .. TMI from wolf chat?
i also don't like the way monstr hand-waves a village read on sleep's big post later on
does anyone want to sanity check me here? feel free to call me a bumbling idiot for this one but i can't shake this + the other suspicions i have on sleep re: the ladd/sleep interactions
nebjiamn
04-24-2022, 17:04
Sunbae
Cuth
Sleep
V/v/v imo
Maaaaaybe zack
rule of 3+1 :wowee:
the wording here is so interesting
i know a few people have claimed to know who sleep is but this just feels .. TMI from wolf chat?
i also don't like the way monstr hand-waves a village read on sleep's big post later on
does anyone want to sanity check me here? feel free to call me a bumbling idiot for this one but i can't shake this + the other suspicions i have on sleep re: the ladd/sleep interactions
youre big braining it too much
nebjiamn
04-24-2022, 17:09
youre big braining it too much
its early, i haven't had coffee
but even if i am, its worth getting these feelings out yknow?
its early, i haven't had coffee
but even if i am, its worth getting these feelings out yknow?
oh yeah feel free to brainstorm stuff, i just gotta interject when i feel something is silly, but i am obviously biased
if i could venture a guess monstr probably just saw the name, didnt recognize it, and assumed i was a stranger
nebjiamn
04-24-2022, 17:22
Vote: Ender
:charge:
talk to me about this?
nebjiamn
04-24-2022, 17:30
i'm not going to quote it, but monstr's posting after rask votes him for what he called AtE and monstr's response probably just spews rask v
nebjiamn
04-24-2022, 17:41
decided to just iso ladd rather than leave the thread i need to go soon
ladd's second post is still pushing ender but kinda weakly. At this point I think he's got three people (one of benneh or newcomb i forget, zack, hk) agreeing with him on Ender having bad posting.
ladd is townreading benneh zack hk bc they're all following him and agreed with his push. I'm gonna call all of them town.
That random sunbae vote whack af though, especially when he can just vote Ender here and is townreading three people for pushing Ender (imo at least). Completely unsubstantiated across multiple posts at this post (including his first which I didn't include here). Don't think it can't be w/w
he's just starting a second push on sunbae while ender which he also started is still going strong, and is coming up with reasons on the spot
think it makes sunbae v
yeah zack, hk, and whomever of newcomb/benneh said that ender was sus before post 150 is probs town
moves off of sunbae to ender in the 500s, don't know the vc at the time, will look at it later
531 just also feels like zack is not a partner to me but like idk why just vibes
eh maybe not v/w, could be theatre. Still feel like him kinda randomly pushing him was an attempt to establish a wolf-motivated second wagon though
yeah I'm just gonna call Ender a villager and ender/sunbae an attempt to establish v/v wagons early
ladd kinda engages with sleep in a way that feels low level annoyed at them later on, probably not w/w
leave vote on MY BOY
express regret preemptively
profit
honestly a lot of ladd's posting makes more sense if he thinks Katze is a guy
alright i need to run seeya
coming back to how dolby tried to blithely clear zack/me/HK in this sequence has me doubting the HK read i mentioned a bit earlier. feels like dolby could be looking to clear a partner here (or maybe he's just looking to clear 3 villas and gain favor?). sunbae, katze, others chime in on this and help me out here?
i guess I should consider a w!zack world for the same reason but zack's had enough subtle posts that look real good and not over-the-top-for-cred against ladd and dolby at key moments that i don't want to bother with that.
nebjiamn
04-24-2022, 17:54
v
Sunbae
ladd voters
Raskolnikov
cuthillius
Montmorency
villagery and/or spew
zack
EnderWiggin
katze
Sleep
some good, some bad
roro__b
Newcomb
Cape90
hollowkatt
a very quick and rough ordering of where i'm at currently. not ordered within tiers i just moved ppl around in notepad til their clumps made sense
how often does that bottom 4 list contain 2 wolves? I could see that a good amount tbh. how often does that bottom 4 list contain 2 wolves that fit with ladd and monstr/dolby? idk yet. i think newcomb and dobby are slightly less possible with ladd for thin reasons. HK may be slightly less possible with monstr/dolby?
Cape i'm not sure. i haven't re-read him yet and i owe that still so this is mostly just a carryover read on him at this point
nebjiamn
04-24-2022, 17:57
sorry for spamming. i'm gonna go enjoy my sunday now that the fam is awake and spend some time reading later. ping me if needed/if you reply to some of my points pls
v
Sunbae
ladd voters
Raskolnikov
cuthillius
Montmorency
villagery and/or spew
zack
EnderWiggin
katze
Sleep
some good, some bad
roro__b
Newcomb
Cape90
hollowkatt
a very quick and rough ordering of where i'm at currently. not ordered within tiers i just moved ppl around in notepad til their clumps made sense
how often does that bottom 4 list contain 2 wolves? I could see that a good amount tbh. how often does that bottom 4 list contain 2 wolves that fit with ladd and monstr/dolby? idk yet. i think newcomb and dobby are slightly less possible with ladd for thin reasons. HK may be slightly less possible with monstr/dolby?
Cape i'm not sure. i haven't re-read him yet and i owe that still so this is mostly just a carryover read on him at this point
I haven't been discrete about you being ?ike my top read but
Sunbae does look good but what are your top reasons for placing him in the top? And same for rask, I mightve missed some voting dynamics stuff but iirc you were one of the ppl who voted him with me? What has changed?
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