Sorceror 17er Game Thread

[hollowkatt]

Imma drive home from work but lettuce yes

I wrote about it in my wall just now but I just don't sgree with the read on kat, the "meta" stuff, kat is rxtreeeemely competent, maybe especially as wolf and that read is playing down her skills way too much even though you're saying it is with respect which I agree you're doing. I just don't see her being as polarized as you describe there.

And that you make it some kind of duality (I think that's the word) where you start off the sentence about newcomb with "on the other hand", it just feels... staged.

Fwiw I did appreciate your post answering my "find good stuff about me", or, the segment with that rather, but I would've preferred seeing like, more uh idk how to describe it. I would've liked to see some kind of yes I really want to see if I'm being tunneled/wrong and if actually the things people have said look good for dobby actually do"

Because that would be the first thing I'd do if I would make a list like that about you, I'd want to see why the people who are saying you look good, do so

Katze is competent sure. I have spent the last 20 minutes reading through their MU wolf games both on Katze and their turbo alt and I'm rock solid confident in this read now. As wolf katze is more likely to use self-depreciating humor, is more likely to crack jokes instead of solving, and is more likely to run the game on "shitpost" mode for lack of better terms than they are as town.

I did not say polarized btw, I said I think there's enough of a difference to call that out and make a read based on it.

It is a duality for me. Katze feels obvs town, newcomb does not feel obvs town. If my post reflects that it's because that's what I'm thinking.

I started your ISO with the intention of finding good stuff. The reason that didn't continue is because I wasn't finding more good stuff. I didn't go into your ISO with the intent to paint you as poorly as possible, that just happened

[hollowkatt]

I think the team could simply be mont/dobby

Why mont?

[Sleep]

im laughing very hard at forming a rock solid metaread in 20 minutes, but i think thats a genuine thought

[Sleep]

been feeling a bit groggy and unproductive last night

I think a good play is voting me off, mostly because I am confident in my townreads, but I also feel like I am pretty spewed town from the 2 mafia that flipped, but in that regard I am sure wolves made sure buddies looked good too

y do u feel ur spewed town?

[Newcomb]

I don't think anyone has responded to any of my Monty stuff? other than newcomb referencing it

and people are still giving him credit for ending on ladd when I've pointed out 80 times that he actually tried to unvote but it was at :01 (after seeing several other people suddenly vote ladd)

his posts today are not doing it today for me but I seem to be on an island here

You're not; what did you think of the stuff he posted most recently though?

[Newcomb]

test?

[Newcomb]

Site acting really weird for anything else? The thread is loading fine but replies are lagging forever?

[Cuthillius]

ok sorry i might be around a bit later but i was marginally functional at best as a human being this weekend and now i have stuff to do

feel free to disregard my reads for the time being probably

[Newcomb]

Okay genuine question to the 29459239439 people who want to "resolve" / infolynch me.

Does the game become really different or obvious if you get confirmation I'm a villager? Because I'm sitting here *knowing I'm a villager* and weathervaning pretty hard. Like am I missing something? If you were in my shoes and knew I was a villager would you just go, "oh of course, it's obviously X/Y."

I'll take the help at this point.

[Cuthillius]

in fact

vote: Cuthillius

i take that back potentially (i haven't read anything since yesterday middayish)

what?

[Sunbae]

Look, I'm not really a good leader villager. I'm never going to be that person that tries to bend the thread to my will. I'm just a solid back seat villager that kinda just tries to view the threadstate, see the various points of view, and then figure out the best course of action taking it all into account. So I always feel weird when I rand a power role because people suddenly want to follow you more.

I don't really agree with what we're doing today. There are 11 villagers vs 2 wolves. So far we have seen no signs of wolf in-fighting (Ladd just ignored monstr, monstr just ignored Ladd). Yet we have people kind of pushing Mont (voted Ladd), Sleep (got pushed hard by Ladd), Ender (pushed and pushed by Ladd), and Cuth (voted Ladd). I totally understand that there could be a wolf there but like, I also feel like the best way to implode this lead is to start infighting with people that have good things going for them, start killing each other, have them flip town, and then just collapse into chaos.

I feel like the best course of action is to say that we haven't fully cleared those people and we'll keep an eye on them as the game progresses to ensure they keep trying to solve, but save that for later when there's more information to sort through and they've had the chance to solve more.

We have 6 town kills before we lose (we lose on the 6th) assuming the last bomb hits two town. We have plenty of time to be methodical and sort things out.

I think we should kill in Hollowkatt/Newcomb/Katze/Cape/Dobby. Or at least spend the rest of the day focusing heavily on them and then can adjust if we decide they are all likely town. I think there's towny people in there, but I think that's the group that just doesn't have anything specifically great for them action wise that has been suspected by others. So it's not my own read list but king of an aggregate of thread consensus things?

With all of this said, I'm not the person to lead. That's just like, my opinion and stuff. I'm entirely fine if ya'll read through stuff and decide "nah, we're killing X" and I'll wish you luck. I don't think I have another day here but maybe Zack dies before me.

[Sleep]

i take that back potentially (i haven't read anything since yesterday middayish)

what?

i just wanted to get ur attention

what are ur reads rn?

[Sunbae]

Okay genuine question to the 29459239439 people who want to "resolve" / infolynch me.

Does the game become really different or obvious if you get confirmation I'm a villager? Because I'm sitting here *knowing I'm a villager* and weathervaning pretty hard. Like am I missing something? If you were in my shoes and knew I was a villager would you just go, "oh of course, it's obviously X/Y."

I'll take the help at this point.

katze/hollowkatt

[Sunbae]

katze/hollowkatt

maybe? idk

[Sunbae]

I told benneh I'd read sleep so i will, brb

[Cuthillius]

for the very little it's worth when i squinted at the thread d2/after dolby flip i was looking in something like and this is super non-clarified but

katze/monty/dobby

or like

sleep/hk/somethin

but then people were stronger v-reading dobby

from the stuff i read d1/early d2 i really don't see much reason for it but idk

[Sunbae]

Fwiw, I'm almost certainly vesting Dobby if we chop town today

[Cuthillius]

i just wanted to get ur attention

what are ur reads rn?

they're archaic

[Sunbae]

Idk benneh, I mean you could be right but I think that's such a small thing (and i think ladd got genuinely flustered at an alt being in the game) compared to my reasons to town read sleep (cape case, ender defense/newcomb press wrt ladd spew all seeming totally fine). I'm not good at picking up on small things like that, sorry

[Sleep]

for the very little it's worth when i squinted at the thread d2/after dolby flip i was looking in something like and this is super non-clarified but

katze/monty/dobby

or like

sleep/hk/somethin

but then people were stronger v-reading dobby

from the stuff i read d1/early d2 i really don't see much reason for it but idk

ok

u voted monty because he opened the day pushing u and disliked him thinking u would bus, the ? is do u think monty would bus in that situation? i realize he tried to unvote but it still has to be considered he voted there in the first place

[Sunbae]

Newcomb,

I don't mean to be pointed or anything. We have two flipped wolves and 4 known villagers on day two. I know this is a laid back casual game and it's unreasonable to expect going super hard, but at some point I need you to just tell me who the wolves are from your pov. I've enjoyed your posting today and think your reasons for town reading some people are good, but townreading people in an 11v2 games with two dead wolves is easier to do for a wolf and calling people wolves in that game state is hard for them.

So like, not due to self-interactions or how easy/hard things are. Just "based on ladd and monstr/dolby being wolves and how things have played out, i think these people are the wolves".

[Sleep]

I don't really agree with what we're doing today. There are 11 villagers vs 2 wolves. So far we have seen no signs of wolf in-fighting (Ladd just ignored monstr, monstr just ignored Ladd). Yet we have people kind of pushing Mont (voted Ladd), Sleep (got pushed hard by Ladd), Ender (pushed and pushed by Ladd), and Cuth (voted Ladd). I totally understand that there could be a wolf there but like, I also feel like the best way to implode this lead is to start infighting with people that have good things going for them, start killing each other, have them flip town, and then just collapse into chaos.
fwiw i dont expect cuth to go over, i just wanted to indicate my suspicion and get his attention, ill swap to something viable at eod

[Cuthillius]

ftr i think monty mostly fits if like either of hk/newc are w and not super else actually

it was predicated off a thought of wolves being some degree of dead in the water

i don't think ladd going over was that inevitable given the resistance against it it's kinda wild that it really happened

but i also think monty's vote and unvote to tie the wagons is kinda wack and there were things i don't remember from looking at his sod posting and overall trajectory that didn't make me feel perfectly warm n fuzzy inside

but i also don't think this feels like newc w really and idk about hk

it's more of a mental note to self and making sure things don't crystallize too much in that direction sort of deal than actually wanting him to die more than other people today

[Cuthillius]

ok i really should do stuff but i'm going to talk through why i felt strongly about ender v at the time because newc and maybe others also asked about it

i don't think it's a very partnery thing for someone with ender's approach to wolfread their partner for a kinda dubious reason when a lot of the rest of the thread is pretty casually being like yeah that guy's pretty villagery, and then when being intensely pushed over this read and like directly offered contrary explanations for a read that again w!ender would have made up and be able to tell was kinda dubious not be like oh you're right this is a bad read or even eh you might be right but i think this makes more sense but instead get quite defensive and assume i'm trying to catch him on a contradiction

that's just not how wolves react

and if you fit this into the framework of how he's been approaching the game more broadly

that wolf read lines up with a lot of his other reads in terms of depth and style, it's not like this weird manufactured thing that only applies to ladd

i think it's possible that someone like ender would like intentionally do a bad push on a teammate and know it would be wrong, but i have a hard time seeing him act around it the way he did

[katze]

sup

catching up from where i closed the thread yesterday, EoD is in ~6 hours right?

[Cuthillius]

dobby's read on me also just feels like not v!dobby's read on me a bit

because sure i was like not super put together but it was also

i was definitely playing in the sort of approach range that would line up with how i'd wolf d1 in this sort of circumstance where i'm actively trying not to get super town-read but still being kinda intentional about engaging where i engage

[Cuthillius]

sup

catching up from where i closed the thread yesterday, EoD is in ~6 hours right?

five and a half yee

[Raskolnikov]

I actually agree Sunbae. I am going to finish Newcomb's ISO and be around to discuss.

[Cuthillius]

i think rask probably fits into more worlds than monty

but also that feels like a conversation for another day

[Cuthillius]

i take that back i remember monstr stuff rask is just v

[Sleep]

ok i really should do stuff but i'm going to talk through why i felt strongly about ender v at the time because newc and maybe others also asked about it

i don't think it's a very partnery thing for someone with ender's approach to wolfread their partner for a kinda dubious reason when a lot of the rest of the thread is pretty casually being like yeah that guy's pretty villagery, and then when being intensely pushed over this read and like directly offered contrary explanations for a read that again w!ender would have made up and be able to tell was kinda dubious not be like oh you're right this is a bad read or even eh you might be right but i think this makes more sense but instead get quite defensive and assume i'm trying to catch him on a contradiction

that's just not how wolves react

and if you fit this into the framework of how he's been approaching the game more broadly

that wolf read lines up with a lot of his other reads in terms of depth and style, it's not like this weird manufactured thing that only applies to ladd

i think it's possible that someone like ender would like intentionally do a bad push on a teammate and know it would be wrong, but i have a hard time seeing him act around it the way he did

i do think ender is more likely v than not but this is a thing where ur confidence on it kind of worries me, because wolves tend to be more certain on spew type reads like this than villagers are, where they always have doubt in their minds

(sorry if this is offputting, its just the thought crawling around inside my head)

[Cuthillius]

i'm glad i never listened to my gut trepidation on you zack

i was kinda worried about you all d1 but it never got to the point where it felt worth it and you had some moments

[nebjiamn]

Idk benneh, I mean you could be right but I think that's such a small thing (and i think ladd got genuinely flustered at an alt being in the game) compared to my reasons to town read sleep (cape case, ender defense/newcomb press wrt ladd spew all seeming totally fine). I'm not good at picking up on small things like that, sorry
ftr i town read sleep too. its just a minor tinfoily thing hence me asking for the sanity check

[Cuthillius]

i do think ender is more likely v than not but this is a thing where ur confidence on it kind of worries me, because wolves tend to be more certain on spew type reads like this than villagers are, where they always have doubt in their minds

(sorry if this is offputting, its just the thought crawling around inside my head)

that's bizarre

like it makes sense but is just weird in this context is all

also if it makes any difference ender was in the first game of online forum mafia i ever played almost exactly nine years ago

[Dobby]

Fwiw, I'm almost certainly vesting Dobby if we chop town today

Fuck ye I'd love that


Like, I really really don't want to die today

Its against my very nature to like, drop dead but I do that as either alignment. I want to say I'd be more relaxed if I were wolf because I could play the players or something, but I'm honestly just very mediocre as town and like, I genuinely can't stand out as town from my wolfgame and that's probably what outs me in this seat over and over. I spend more time than I have on the games, which ends up in something half-assed reading posts from where I joined thread and everything past that - but I still haven't read the posts leading up to eod when I was absent, and I haven't fucking read the posts from like days stsrt until the bomb had went off

And i still can't get myself to just reading those posts.

It also stresses me that eod is 3.5h before I need to wake up for work, and tomorrow is the last day I work in 10 days, and not being able to be here (if I sleep in time) last two or three hours leading up to eod means I can easily be the one voted out and no matter how well I play or what I do, I. Likely one of the top contenders for that spot. But ye I genuinely like


What do I do here

Do I keep reading and try to form correct reads about stuff? Because I am genuinely happy with my reads with my lists based off what I have read. If I go down this path, it'll 100% be for "I want to save myself" reasons and it'll take a ton of work and on top of that defending myself against people repeatedly saying "it's just dobby". Like, I won't be able to do much past what I have done that might change any thoughts on me.

And yes I'm capable of renting like this as wolf as well, and I probably would if I were, because that's just how I play and it sucks being expected to give 200% in every game I play or there's "something missing" or whatever but I guess I've got myself to blame for that.

Back to "what do I do". I'm genuinely, and I said it before, happy with what I did yesterday (as in second half of d1), and like, I never am, there's always a ton that bugs me about what I've done but not this game, even after the flips. I had sus on ladd and sure I wasn't after his ass leading up to eod, nor at eod, but I was in no way saying he was towny or such. I was wrong on monstr and I couldn't care less about that either. I had a dumb "he doesn't tilt like this if he's wolf because he's in a group" etc etc so I gave him a freebie, that was wrong too, but that's about it from what we know now. Sunbae sure I had my tinfoil but that's because they manage to like dig into my soul and have a big bite everytime I dare to trust em, but it was a fairly firm townread, and zack was also barring some tinfoil, also a firm townread. I'm not going to judge my game based on monstr or not having voted ladd during eod (when I had been away for hours and just rejoined when there were a few minutes left of the day), like even mentioning that despite having tried to explain it, is just not reasonable, you should be able to see that yeah it's not logical for dobby to come back in and make all the right moves. And I'm saying that because several of you still do despite me having pointed it out several times.

Ivr been focusing on people's reasons for playing like they do, trying to see where they come from when they write something, how shallow the reads are, does it make sense from 'their' perspective even though I don't agree nor would interpret stuff that way? The contents don't matter as much for me, it doesn't usually unless I feel like I have to or that what I say would actually matter. I said it before but yeah this is a game of big ego's and even if I had like a photo of someone nuking someone else, I wouldn't reach through to some others in here to convince them that the person is wolf. (Okay that might be exaggerating because I do that a lot as well) so the few attempts I have as "please read this look at this look looooook" don't really lead anywhere and barely get acknowledged. So I don't focus on that. I do what I can to push the game forward and provide what I feel like I can provide and help out with, and maybe I don't and maybe its very discrete but it's what I've been forming my reads based on and it's there if you care to look for it. I'm not gonna poop out reads or associatives or stuff based on vote counts or wagons or whatever, because its so easily fake able and reading into any of that is just a lottery in most cases, and even if it's right it's just because of like, chance, and not skill. Because I genuinely believe all these things can and do get played by any semi-capable wolf, in smol discrete ways doing stuff that "yeah this isn't a classic wolf move but someone will prolly notice this and give me town points for it"

[nebjiamn]

i really wanna be selfish and bully sunbae into giving me the bomb tomorrow

but he'll never do it, im just too pure :(

:curtain:

what emoji can i use to emotionally guilt you into thinking i'm pocketing you and thus worthy of a bomb tonight













:creep:

[Cuthillius]

and i think i'm specifically confident about this sort of read on ender because of their playstyle in a way i wouldn't be confident about making reads on, say, newc

and i'm also doubling down because i have a better feel for aspects of this than a fair number of people here and i think a lot of people have been trying to get ender killed because he's somewhat easy to get killed see: ladd lazily pushing there lmao

but it's 100% because he "does wolfy stuff" and like 0% because he does wolfy stuff imo

[katze]

Not sure how much I want to read into this but the flat response to sleep's big wall is like... ehh I was gonna say +villa for sleep. Maybe it is a little. I'm just not sure how much I should read into any of monstr's posts given what happened. Like you can't really ascribe normal wolf agenda/valuation/thinking to someone to blew up like that and clearly had some stuff going on.

im leaning towards it still being ~overall +villa for sleep, it looks a lot like the response i'd see a lower effort wolf give when they see a post they know people will townread - and it's generally harder to have that thought when it's a wolf written post?

if by "given what happened" you mean The Incident?, then maaaaybe - in the draft game on MU that monstr was mafia in he basically told his teammates to bus him from pregame so i wouldn't be surprised if that happened again?

[Dobby]

I think I just created a new pasta

Anyways, tldr is i don't want to die but I honestly don't think I can do anything about it because people have lowkey made up their mind already


Or like yes, I'd love to get a vest but saying that sounds wolfy but I'd also not post it if I were wolf because.i don't want to look wolfy. Etc. Wifom, love it.

[Cuthillius]

vote: katze

uwu

[Dobby]

Sunbae can you acknowledge the 5 minute thing not being a thing

[Cuthillius]

also benneh i saw your uwu and i love you for it profoundly

[Cuthillius]

hugs to dobby

[Sleep]

that's bizarre

like it makes sense but is just weird in this context is all

also if it makes any difference ender was in the first game of online forum mafia i ever played almost exactly nine years ago


and i think i'm specifically confident about this sort of read on ender because of their playstyle in a way i wouldn't be confident about making reads on, say, newc

and i'm also doubling down because i have a better feel for aspects of this than a fair number of people here and i think a lot of people have been trying to get ender killed because he's somewhat easy to get killed see: ladd lazily pushing there lmao

but it's 100% because he "does wolfy stuff" and like 0% because he does wolfy stuff imo

the context is helpful, thanks

[nebjiamn]

ive said it in thread already but ill say again in a smaller post that i think cape is the best elim today

i'm a bit sketched by what felt like a building case against HK from lots of folks and i town read that slot pretty hard. maybe its LOL me but i personally have a hard time getting the progressions from cape ITG so that's where i'd rather go

but similar to sunbae i don't wanna bend the thread to my will so much as i want to at least clearly express my thoughts on those two

[Dobby]

dobby's read on me also just feels like not v!dobby's read on me a bit

because sure i was like not super put together but it was also

i was definitely playing in the sort of approach range that would line up with how i'd wolf d1 in this sort of circumstance where i'm actively trying not to get super town-read but still being kinda intentional about engaging where i engage

Can you define that dobby read on you a little more pls

(I also posted a less certain v reas of you today if you haven't seen it yet)

[Raskolnikov]

that's bizarre

like it makes sense but is just weird in this context is all

also if it makes any difference ender was in the first game of online forum mafia i ever played almost exactly nine years ago

Oh, you are a noob. It explains it. Things are starting to line up :juggle2:

[Dobby]

It's suppose dto say I fight against it as either alignment, I don't mean to say I drop dead regardless of alignment


Yes I definitely didn't read through the wallpost I'm not a nerd (giggles at the ones who read it)

[Cuthillius]

Can you define that dobby read on you a little more pls

(I also posted a less certain v reas of you today if you haven't seen it yet)

i didn't sorry

uh you were just sorta confidently v-reading me d1 for the most part

and i think it's maybe fair but also i felt like i was playing in a space in the thread wrt engagement and stuff that honestly lines up with how i often approach d1s as a wolf where i'm there and engaging but not leaning in too hard because i don't want to get strongly v-read d1 lol

even though it was more because i had two exams and a bunch of work to do and so i was only able to engage so much but was still like present a fair bit

and you often take a more uh cautious look at me than most people because you know my style of approach

and it surprised me a bit that you weren't more sketched out by my general patterns of engagement than you were

[Sleep]

ive said it in thread already but ill say again in a smaller post that i think cape is the best elim today

i'm a bit sketched by what felt like a building case against HK from lots of folks and i town read that slot pretty hard. maybe its LOL me but i personally have a hard time getting the progressions from cape ITG so that's where i'd rather go

but similar to sunbae i don't wanna bend the thread to my will so much as i want to at least clearly express my thoughts on those two

i was just typing a list and kind of coming around to this despite earlier trepidation

the...i guessmost concerning thing is he had both monstr and ladd in his wolf leans day 1 but pushed two villagers instead with reasoning that was weak and im still not sure i click with what hes pushing today, altho i need to revisit it

[hollowkatt]

Fwiw, I'm almost certainly vesting Dobby if we chop town today

if we're gonna do that we might as well chop me so that dobby has to make a different call. Otherwise we'll chop town today, you'll vest dobby, he'll blow me up, I'll flip town. Dobby might flip town idk, but we'll for sure be down 1x town we didn't need to be down.

[Dobby]

dobby's read on me also just feels like not v!dobby's read on me a bit

because sure i was like not super put together but it was also

i was definitely playing in the sort of approach range that would line up with how i'd wolf d1 in this sort of circumstance where i'm actively trying not to get super town-read but still being kinda intentional about engaging where i engage

This is also like, the only thing you've written about me this game (that I remember) isn't it

[katze]

#1149 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829454&viewfull=1#post2053829454)

I actually like this post. Bar the mild "Oh Cuth didn't die?" derptell which feels fake. But also wagon position on Ladd was probably good?

I kinda like Sleep's daystart in general.

#1171 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829476&viewfull=1#post2053829476)

I'm in confbias territory now but like, this post is a post I can see wolf!Newcomb making after not thinking Ladd was in danger at EOD and then the flashwagon on his partner appears.

-- I'm going to point out that it looks like Dolby entered today to try and pocket me.

#1205 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829510&viewfull=1#post2053829510)

As of this post I'm pretty sure Neb/NC are unpaired.

#1210 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829515&viewfull=1#post2053829515)

I'll actually have to check this after I'm done catching up. If Zack is right and Ladd really didn't defend Newc at all and WAS around after I dropped case and pushed, it might actually be signs pointing in the "I'm wrong" direction.

#1230 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829535&viewfull=1#post2053829535)

If I am wrong on Newc is this the angle that I was pocketed at? (Talking about Sleep not Zack)

#1233 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829538&viewfull=1#post2053829538)

Ladd/Sleep/HK/? =P

#1236 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829541&viewfull=1#post2053829541)

Neb comes to mind immediately, I'd have to think about this more for other names.

#1247 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829552&viewfull=1#post2053829552)

If it's Cape and Newc as the other two wolves this post becomes more hilarious. (Both unflipped wolves basically templated the same opener today.)

Kinda want to unpair Cape/Neb for 1257/1258

#1260 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829565&viewfull=1#post2053829565)

Is it a bad read if I call this a town post? Legit seems to be dismissive/annoyed at Dolby before he flipped. Might be a bad read but I'm actually pretty confident in it.

1263/1264 are mildly wolf leaning IMO for Neb

#1272 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829577&viewfull=1#post2053829577)

In my defense I hadn't seen your post saying the same thing yet =P

#1281 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829586&viewfull=1#post2053829586)

I think this post never comes from w/v worlds for Newc/Neb. Or not w!Newcomb/V!Neb worlds. If Newcomb flips red I am willing to bet anything that Neb flips red too.

#1284 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829589&viewfull=1#post2053829589)

That post is NAI. I stand by the reads I do use.

Is it bad that I read Newc lashing out at Zack as possibly towny? Probably yes.

#1330 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829636&viewfull=1#post2053829636)

This is actually a mildly convincing take lmao.

#1411 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829719&viewfull=1#post2053829719)

This is a pretty ballsy post for a wolf to make tbh. I kinda like it.

#1426 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829735&viewfull=1#post2053829735)

Dare I say this looks good for Newcomb? Dare I?

Rask's catchup is meh but also probably not AI.

Dobby's catchup is kinda meh. Also I believe Rask's "Oh Dolby is mafia" more than Dobby's.

I like Benneh's reads in the next sequence (Not at all because he calls me town what are you talking about)

#1500 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829830&viewfull=1#post2053829830)

Derp tell denied.

The rest I'm kinda vagueish on as my brain is struggling to keep going.

I didn't see anything particularly AI but need to dig into the posting a bit more.

--

Thus concludes my lacklustre wall of returns.

this wall feels exactly like a w!katze catchup wall lmao

i know i've caught myself like, overrelying on "link post - describe thought" a hell of a lot more as mafia than as town where i'm more... things line up better, i guess? instead of "this post is wolfy *links post*. this post is townie *links post*" it'd be more like "i have mixed feelings" (okay this is a bad example but im not going to make a better one)

[Cuthillius]

This is also like, the only thing you've written about me this game (that I remember) isn't it

yup

i basically didn't touch you d1

but i was like hm

and less for the read on me that didn't really bother me until today

and more for you just sorta fitting into several different worlds

i don't think apart from the read i have any huge issues with how you've played and what you've done

[Sunbae]

Dobby, good wall post <3

I'm going to make a longerish post about the vest

[Raskolnikov]

Dobby: ofc u don't want the vest. But for the exercice, GTH you have it, you gotta bomb NOW. Who goes?

[Cuthillius]

this wall feels exactly like a w!katze catchup wall lmao

i know i've caught myself like, overrelying on "link post - describe thought" a hell of a lot more as mafia than as town where i'm more... things line up better, i guess? instead of "this post is wolfy *links post*. this post is townie *links post*" it'd be more like "i have mixed feelings" (okay this is a bad example but im not going to make a better one)

have you played with bladescape often?

[Raskolnikov]

*outside HK

[Dobby]

ive said it in thread already but ill say again in a smaller post that i think cape is the best elim today

i'm a bit sketched by what felt like a building case against HK from lots of folks and i town read that slot pretty hard. maybe its LOL me but i personally have a hard time getting the progressions from cape ITG so that's where i'd rather go

but similar to sunbae i don't wanna bend the thread to my will so much as i want to at least clearly express my thoughts on those two

I think it's just me that have built a case on hk, and 0 ppl acknowledging that it exists? :p

Csargo also voted hk just saying (again) I'm just tryna manipulate you hope it works

[Sleep]

sunbae, zack
rask, ender
neb, dobby, katze
hk, monty, cuth
cape, newc

no matter how many times i look at it, have a hard time moving it around

below clears is people who seem more or less spewed

below that people who arent spewed but generally feel good

then folks with some stuff going for them

then people i find suspicious

[Cuthillius]

sunbae, zack
rask, ender
neb, dobby, katze
hk, monty, cuth
cape, newc

no matter how many times i look at it, have a hard time moving it around

below clears is people who seem more or less spewed

below that people who arent spewed but generally feel good

then folks with some stuff going for them

then people i find suspicious

have you written any words about how my playing eod1 the way i did as a wolf make even a tiny bit of sense?

[Raskolnikov]

newcomb

[katze]

okay can i stop catching up there's too many wallposts

[Raskolnikov]

vote: Newcomb

[Sunbae]

Assuming we chop town (likely in an 11v2 situation), I think I'm supposed to target a villager read that I think the thread will miskill eventually? It takes away a chop and gives that chop the chance to make a kill instead. If that's the case, I was thinking Dobby because like, I really really really think Dobby is town, I've expressed that read as strongly as I can, and people are still really suspicious of them. So if I am right then Dobby turned from a mischop to a villager with kill power which seems good? And hitting a wolf let's them get an extra kill from the top which seems less good than clearing out two poe slots?

And if I'm wrong then cool, the thread was correct and I wasn't and a wolf dies.

Although typing it out there's only two wolves left maybe I'm incorrect and I'm supposed to just target a wolf read and if it's wrong they get to take someone on the way out anyways?

[katze]

vote: katze

uwu

umu


have you played with bladescape often?

think this is my first time playing w him, altho he was in a game i hosted

[Newcomb]

Newcomb,

I don't mean to be pointed or anything. We have two flipped wolves and 4 known villagers on day two. I know this is a laid back casual game and it's unreasonable to expect going super hard, but at some point I need you to just tell me who the wolves are from your pov. I've enjoyed your posting today and think your reasons for town reading some people are good, but townreading people in an 11v2 games with two dead wolves is easier to do for a wolf and calling people wolves in that game state is hard for them.

So like, not due to self-interactions or how easy/hard things are. Just "based on ladd and monstr/dolby being wolves and how things have played out, i think these people are the wolves".

But mooooooooom I don't waaaaannnna.

yeah that's fair. I'm at work right now but I can sneak off in a bit to jot down some thoughts

[Sunbae]

Dobby, the 5 hour thing is acknowledged and discarded

[Dobby]

if we're gonna do that we might as well chop me so that dobby has to make a different call. Otherwise we'll chop town today, you'll vest dobby, he'll blow me up, I'll flip town. Dobby might flip town idk, but we'll for sure be down 1x town we didn't need to be down.

I'm nit sure I understand what you're saying here, are u implying I might be influential in the chop and that'd lead to you? Because lol give me one example of a player that listens to me/,has read my posts and gone "yes this is good I agree it makes sense", just one please.

I'm definitely not sure you're my choice for today if that's your impression. I literally wrote an updated readslist with s lot of alternatives presented. I know others are Tring you and among them some people I trust, so it's not like I have locked in and not looking elsewhere, I just don't feel like your answers have done anything to help me find you here. It might just be a difference in playstyles but I don't want to blame it on that. Your case on me (that I answered with a list of 8 points) where some stuff where you misreading what I wrote (as in, yesterday as in second half of d1) etc, which you use to build a case, and peeling off the things I refute there, its not much left of your "case", and sure I might not have a lot going for me but like, I'd at least understand that focus if you chose it.


Also I hate it when ppl say "chop me" cuzmy instinct is to double down

[katze]

Assuming we chop town (likely in an 11v2 situation), I think I'm supposed to target a villager read that I think the thread will miskill eventually? It takes away a chop and gives that chop the chance to make a kill instead. If that's the case, I was thinking Dobby because like, I really really really think Dobby is town, I've expressed that read as strongly as I can, and people are still really suspicious of them. So if I am right then Dobby turned from a mischop to a villager with kill power which seems good? And hitting a wolf let's them get an extra kill from the top which seems less good than clearing out two poe slots?

And if I'm wrong then cool, the thread was correct and I wasn't and a wolf dies.

Although typing it out there's only two wolves left maybe I'm incorrect and I'm supposed to just target a wolf read and if it's wrong they get to take someone on the way out anyways?

imma be honest sunbae it sounds like im the optimal bomb target because every read ive seen on me has been soured by paranoia of "katze is a good wolf and nothing is 100% clearing" which will v likely not change unless exactly newcomb flips mafia

[Sunbae]

But mooooooooom I don't waaaaannnna.

yeah that's fair. I'm at work right now but I can sneak off in a bit to jot down some thoughts

No rush!
Well, maybe a little rush but not immediate rush lol

[Dobby]

yup

i basically didn't touch you d1

but i was like hm

and less for the read on me that didn't really bother me until today

and more for you just sorta fitting into several different worlds

i don't think apart from the read i have any huge issues with how you've played and what you've done

Fitting in to what worlds exactly? Is that based on anything but "not cleared, hes in that sweet spot of" he's nit top town and we are starting to lack players to put in the poe, because that perspective would make more sense from you

And not "fitting into several different words" because that's... I don't get that approach when you can just say "you're in poe" or something, this implies you've made association's or smth

[Dobby]

Dobby: ofc u don't want the vest. But for the exercice, GTH you have it, you gotta bomb NOW. Who goes?

I want the vest of course lol, and I'd probably use it qccording to whatever is discussed in thread before I pop it and not vanity shoot, probably. I just don't want to die today but I fear I will because I won't be here for eod which is at 2am

But yeah if I pop someone just this second it might honestly be cape lol

[Sunbae]

Idk katze, I think I can see plenty of worlds where you get called a villager by most of the thread!

[Dobby]

Dobby, the 5 hour thing is acknowledged and discarded

Ur the best sunabe something something the light in the dark and an angel and smth

[Newcomb]

Assuming we chop town (likely in an 11v2 situation), I think I'm supposed to target a villager read that I think the thread will miskill eventually? It takes away a chop and gives that chop the chance to make a kill instead. If that's the case, I was thinking Dobby because like, I really really really think Dobby is town, I've expressed that read as strongly as I can, and people are still really suspicious of them. So if I am right then Dobby turned from a mischop to a villager with kill power which seems good? And hitting a wolf let's them get an extra kill from the top which seems less good than clearing out two poe slots?

And if I'm wrong then cool, the thread was correct and I wasn't and a wolf dies.

Although typing it out there's only two wolves left maybe I'm incorrect and I'm supposed to just target a wolf read and if it's wrong they get to take someone on the way out anyways?

I'd target a wolf read personally.

[Sleep]

have you written any words about how my playing eod1 the way i did as a wolf make even a tiny bit of sense?

no but i can do so now:

- for starters you were heavily under pressure already before people hopped off

- your vote was the 2nd on ladd wagon and there was no guarantee people would follow it

- hypothetically in a world where you are teamed with ladd, maybe people get scared and go elsewhere that day and you look good down the line. or people go back onto you and you flip and decide to clear ladd. its not a bad move at all if youre in a spot where a lot of the team is suspected (and this is added to the fact that at the time monstr's slot was obviously a nonfactor)

- altho the sorc is technically kp, it doesnt actually change the balance of kills in this setup at all. it guarantees a town death but gives another kill right back into the hands of town, so the effect is net neutral. the only thing it does is slightly expand the timescale the game is played on, which i think is +town, but the perceived benefit of flipping the n3 sorc so far seems to have been greater than what i consider the actual utility of the mafia sorc to be


this is all just stuff thats kicking around in my head. by itself it remains just a possible explanation but my worry was that you didnt feel like you came into the day primed to draw conclusions off the flip, and thats frequently the case where mafia members bus a teammate and then end up coasting because they dont know where to go

its possible im overthinking this but thats why i wanted to talk to you to get a sense of how ur reading the game

[Sleep]

on the topic of Montmorency and the ladd wagon.

please look at #961 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829254&viewfull=1#post2053829254) and #964 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829257&viewfull=1#post2053829257)

like Mont goes from outright shading Winston for the vote on ladd, to joining Winston by EOD. I am either paranoid at an obvtown move or I am Sherlock Holmes


man... 1604 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829958&viewfull=1#post2053829958) says nothing

I have a feeling mafia is Mont this game. Too many things keep piling up

Vote: Montmorency


I think the team could simply be mont/dobby


I was getting at I feel like it is easy for mafia to do that with their partners at the start of each day just to like distance and stuff then hop on other people later.

I seem valid to me

:/ :/ :/

[Cuthillius]

Fitting in to what worlds exactly? Is that based on anything but "not cleared, hes in that sweet spot of" he's nit top town and we are starting to lack players to put in the poe, because that perspective would make more sense from you

And not "fitting into several different words" because that's... I don't get that approach when you can just say "you're in poe" or something, this implies you've made association's or smth

no it's not based off anything specific

just where pushes are and aren't going and who is and isn't super villagery

[nebjiamn]

imma be honest sunbae it sounds like im the optimal bomb target because every read ive seen on me has been soured by paranoia of "katze is a good wolf and nothing is 100% clearing" which will v likely not change unless exactly newcomb flips mafia
or even in that world tbh

hehe

[Raskolnikov]

:/ :/ :/

Sleep, why do you think these reads are bad? And what do you make of the people sharing them too (on top of my head, zack, HK, me earlier)?

[Cuthillius]

no but i can do so now:

- for starters you were heavily under pressure already before people hopped off

- your vote was the 2nd on ladd wagon and there was no guarantee people would follow it

- hypothetically in a world where you are teamed with ladd, maybe people get scared and go elsewhere that day and you look good down the line. or people go back onto you and you flip and decide to clear ladd. its not a bad move at all if youre in a spot where a lot of the team is suspected (and this is added to the fact that at the time monstr's slot was obviously a nonfactor)

- altho the sorc is technically kp, it doesnt actually change the balance of kills in this setup at all. it guarantees a town death but gives another kill right back into the hands of town, so the effect is net neutral. the only thing it does is slightly expand the timescale the game is played on, which i think is +town, but the perceived benefit of flipping the n3 sorc so far seems to have been greater than what i consider the actual utility of the mafia sorc to be


this is all just stuff thats kicking around in my head. by itself it remains just a possible explanation but my worry was that you didnt feel like you came into the day primed to draw conclusions off the flip, and thats frequently the case where mafia members bus a teammate and then end up coasting because they dont know where to go

its possible im overthinking this but thats why i wanted to talk to you to get a sense of how ur reading the game

a) meh

b) sure, but i can snap vote rask there and have zero people ever get mad about it

ladd doesn't go over if i don't vote there period, there was too much resistance itt

c) in a spot where most of the team is suspected only really works if there's a third wolf likely to die there alongside me/ladd

otherwise again there's really no point; also there are very few wolf partners i'm willingly going to sacrifice myself for because i trust my ability to post myself into a good position a lot more than most players, and i just don't plan for myself dying like that

like if ladd was likely going to go down regardless sure maybe i toss a vote there in a good spot if it makes me look good but not for no reason when it brings him up into actual contention

self-pressing onto rask is 100% the easiest and healthiest option in every world that keeps two good wolves alive without looking weird after a flip at all

d) the n3 sorc guarantees more deaths

as someone who's won as a wolf in desperado type setups it's not a guaranteed two villagers dead but it's definitely >rand two villagers dead, wolves don't like giving that up, and knowing that it's out there is going to distract villagers and throw things up in the air beyond just the impact of the mechanical effect

e) i mean or you could just look at the fact that i kinda yolo'd the ladd vote because i didn't really know what i wanted to do yesterday, realize that i didn't really spend a lot of time on the thread overnight, and wonder in what possible worlds i would feel strongly about the direction i wanted to go in today

[Dobby]

I'm ready to fight ppl over the bomb, I don't want to be misyeeted

[katze]

coming back to this post post-flip because i think it sums up pretty much where i'm at atm post-flip and i wanna work off of it a bit. my world view didn't change all that much with dolby flipping red even though i wasn't really on him a ton, i don't imagine many people's worldviews did either.


i think the statement stands that the rest of the team probably isn't HK/Katze. i've soured a little on kat in terms of her being near the top of my v list but i still think she is >rand v. i'm slightly warming up to the idea that newcomb may be v this game and i still give her credit for noticing things that I did and pushing on those things on d1 in regard to him even if we both may end up having been wrong about them. more concerned about the process than the results and i like what she's shown more than i haven't. if there's one thing that's skeeved me a little it was her post earlier d2 where she wrote a wallpost with her continued issues about newcomb and dropped the mic on that post in a way that felt more like it was framed to make newcomb look bad without much deference to his thoughts, but i assume this is just a continuation of the weird dynamic they have with kat's expectations/newcomb's ignorance of kat's meta (lmao) and the repercussions therein


HK i think has lots of good posts (especially relative to his actual postcount!) and I feel like its been very easy for me to follow along with his progressions while i read the thread. his response to newcomb today in trying to figure out if we had w/w/w, w/w/v, or v/v/w wagons yesterday and then extrapolating that to a shortened suspect list of [dolby, dobby, ender] looks really good.





Like, its not just that he places dolby as his 1st from that list, but the way he clears kat, sleep, and myself from that list, particularly myself and sleep and going on to say he doesn't have reads on us when he should. since i think kat and sleep are both >rand v, that would be a hell of a position to take when he'd be well within his right to suspect all 3 of us there without getting much flak for it. again, i like the process here and in other parts of his iso. i suppose if dobby and ender is 0 wolves, it might have been fine for him to just rule of 3 two separate categories of folks and score some bus credit on dolby/monstr but i still think it comes out looking clean.





i'm definitely still in the possible camp but moving away from probable where i've been sitting for a good chunk of the game. i think the frustration he's shown toward zack last night plus the point he's made about being night/day from his wildcard game are pretty valid. its just hard to imagine newc on this team and him basically mailing in EOD yesterday when he'd know he'd be a candidate AND another, strong wolf gets wagoned/lunched (i mnight be mis-attributing some agency here because the ladd vote was really quick but i still feel like newcomb shows a bit more urgency to command that EOD rather than just kind of accept it?) (i don't think newcomb was at EOD but i believe he was there leading up to it, i guess i should double check this but i'm lazy)







this feels like the crux of the game for me, at this point? with a village read on newcomb starting to take shape, my world view doesn't really make sense unless one of zack/cuth is wrong on their v read here. and i mean, its werewolf, so its obviously very possible both are just correct and we have a deep wolf or two in either the bussers or a misclear of the sleep/kat/HK/newc quartet (list potentially not all-inclusive, its late).

[...]


cape i am straight up struggling to solve. a lot of his posting has felt to me like "Here's a post, here's a fact, elaboration, done" but then I don't really see the process behind it a ton. i also feel like there's been lots of good thoughts or questions that have just been left dangling behind. also the weird shade that calls me out for not finding ladd in a room full of players with equal or more experience with ladd than me. i am setting that aside a bit because i don't want to make reads too much based around how people poke and prod at me, but that just felt designed like a hit piece on me rather than coming from an inquisitive position. this could very much be a me problem but i'm just having trouble connecting the dots on cape's posting ITG and how he's getting from a->b a lot of times or a better way to put it maybe, where his posting begins and where his thought process ends? I feel like pound for pound, there's more empty questions in cape's iso that either 1) i can't see how they help him solve the game or 2) if/how he follows up on it later in the game?

er, to address the concern on me real quick because i think ik what ur talking about, i straight up expected a MU head moderator to have more than zero idea what was going on with the recent champs seasons, i dropped it because i'm not going to call him a liar because regardless of alignment he probably isn't.



anyway, the main reason i quoted this post is because i still feel pretty decently about HK being a villager and this post ironically makes me feel a lot better about you because you're kinda explaining in bigger words what my gut was kinda saying + adding more to it that i hadn't even really considered

i vaguely remember people throwing his name out as a potential wolf, idk if it still really is since i'm kinda jumping back and forth between the current page and catching up, but i don't believe it's a hit



as for cape, it's weird - i associate him with a more mechanical playstyle (not like, with game mechanics, but in the robotic sense) so none of what you type out here is extremely surprising to me, my bigger conerns with cape aren't what he's posting but what he's not posting

im thinking back to my last game with cape where i was mafia and he was town (h21g10) and i felt like he became borderline low hanging fruit that game because of a less inspired D1; and i was essentially able to just keep throwing around "underwhelming" as a way to keep him PoEd - which even persisted after i flipped mafia - so im kinda like... i feel like it's my job to read him correctly here?

and i dunno. i still don't want him to die today because i think i can, but if you told me to read him correctly right now i'd probably say >rand mafia

[Raskolnikov]

Is there a way to look at the first posts of an ISO with more than 100 posts?

[Sleep]

on the topic of Montmorency and the ladd wagon.

please look at #961 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829254&viewfull=1#post2053829254) and #964 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829257&viewfull=1#post2053829257)

like Mont goes from outright shading Winston for the vote on ladd, to joining Winston by EOD. I am either paranoid at an obvtown move or I am Sherlock Holmes


man... 1604 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829958&viewfull=1#post2053829958) says nothing

I have a feeling mafia is Mont this game. Too many things keep piling up

Vote: Montmorency


I think the team could simply be mont/dobby


Sleep, why do you think these reads are bad? And what do you make of the people sharing them too (on top of my head, zack, HK, me earlier)?
theyre lazy, theres no depth of thought, hes shallowly pointing at things and calling them bad without real elaboration on why it comes from a wolf

he did similar in how he tried to push csargo and winston yesterday


it doesnt look like genuine solving, ppl keep defending him to me and i go back and forth in my head but i look atthese and i struggle to sy "these are real woof reads that cape really believes in"

[Dobby]

Katzd have you said anything about me this game

Cuz I'm only interested in having thoughts based on me atp

[Dobby]

Or my reads on you or smth

[Sleep]

a) meh

b) sure, but i can snap vote rask there and have zero people ever get mad about it

ladd doesn't go over if i don't vote there period, there was too much resistance itt

c) in a spot where most of the team is suspected only really works if there's a third wolf likely to die there alongside me/ladd

otherwise again there's really no point; also there are very few wolf partners i'm willingly going to sacrifice myself for because i trust my ability to post myself into a good position a lot more than most players, and i just don't plan for myself dying like that

like if ladd was likely going to go down regardless sure maybe i toss a vote there in a good spot if it makes me look good but not for no reason when it brings him up into actual contention

self-pressing onto rask is 100% the easiest and healthiest option in every world that keeps two good wolves alive without looking weird after a flip at all

d) the n3 sorc guarantees more deaths

as someone who's won as a wolf in desperado type setups it's not a guaranteed two villagers dead but it's definitely >rand two villagers dead, wolves don't like giving that up, and knowing that it's out there is going to distract villagers and throw things up in the air beyond just the impact of the mechanical effect

e) i mean or you could just look at the fact that i kinda yolo'd the ladd vote because i didn't really know what i wanted to do yesterday, realize that i didn't really spend a lot of time on the thread overnight, and wonder in what possible worlds i would feel strongly about the direction i wanted to go in today

all right, point taken about self pres'ing onto rask

fwiw i disagree on the n3 sorc but recognize that its entirely possible u believe what ur saying about it

thanks for the talk, i dont have anything more i want to ask u about right now

[katze]

None of these are that strong but I have strong reasons to call others villagery and I don't really have many for Katze.

:p i read the future

[nebjiamn]

as for cape, it's weird - i associate him with a more mechanical playstyle (not like, with game mechanics, but in the robotic sense) so none of what you type out here is extremely surprising to me, my bigger conerns with cape aren't what he's posting but what he's not posting

this resonates with me quite a bit

[Sleep]

unvote: cuth

vote: cape90

[katze]

Katzd have you said anything about me this game

Cuz I'm only interested in having thoughts based on me atp

i think i have? i've definitely thought about you

im at a point where i personally don't find you villagery but i don't want to go against sunbaes word unless i literally feel like there's no other options tbh

i could probably sum up my concerns with you if necessary but i don't think it is

[Raskolnikov]

(...)

as for cape, it's weird - i associate him with a more mechanical playstyle (not like, with game mechanics, but in the robotic sense) so none of what you type out here is extremely surprising to me, my bigger conerns with cape aren't what he's posting but what he's not posting

im thinking back to my last game with cape where i was mafia and he was town (h21g10) and i felt like he became borderline low hanging fruit that game because of a less inspired D1; and i was essentially able to just keep throwing around "underwhelming" as a way to keep him PoEd - which even persisted after i flipped mafia - so im kinda like... i feel like it's my job to read him correctly here?

and i dunno. i still don't want him to die today because i think i can, but if you told me to read him correctly right now i'd probably say >rand mafia

I am staring at that last line. u don't want him to die because you think u can find him villa given enough time? posts? what? but rn u'd say maf?

[Raskolnikov]

also anyone knowing the tally?

[katze]

Distancing as the first thing you do when subbing in when I'm townreading his slot would be pretty next level and also out of character for dolby. AND yes he wasn't under pressure. But yeah that shouldn't be clearing its just something I wanted to add when I saw it wuotef

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/909331874239873084.webp?size=96&quality=lossless

the vote is probably flat out NAI and arguing about it is silly given it's phrased like a joke and i doubt dolby subs in and does/doesn't make the joke because you are/aren't in wolf chat

[katze]

I am staring at that last line. u don't want him to die because you think u can find him villa given enough time? posts? what? but rn u'd say maf?

you may be an open book, raskolnikov, but i'm a bit more complicated than that. the inner mechaniations of my mind are an engima.

(yeah that sounds about right, it's selfish and i'm not going to shield him off of 'i think if he's town ill find him' but if there's 2 wagons at eod and cape is one and the other is someone i suspect i'm probably voting the one that isn't cape)

[Sleep]

also anyone knowing the tally?

heres an unofficial vc:

Players Votes

Cape90 3 (nebjiamn, Dobby, Sleep)
EnderWiggin 1 (zack)
nebjiamn 1 (Montmorency)
Montmorency 1 (Cape90)
katze 1 (Cuthillius)
Dobby 1 (hollowkatt)
Newcomb 1 (Raskolnikov)


i want to note for the record that at the time of his vote, cape was the 3rd vote on monty (cuth and rask would later unvote)

[katze]

Dobby:

why are you so concerned about everyones take on you specifically? you're starting to sound like a katze :stare:

[Cape90]

y do u feel ur spewed town?

how I treated Dolby

ladd playing very dodgy around me and ladd's comments on the you vs me thing.

Felt like ladd was trying not to step on my toes

[Raskolnikov]

you may be an open book, raskolnikov, but i'm a bit more complicated than that. the inner mechaniations of my mind are an engima.

(yeah that sounds about right, it's selfish and i'm not going to shield him off of 'i think if he's town ill find him' but if there's 2 wagons at eod and cape is one and the other is someone i suspect i'm probably voting the one that isn't cape)

I am not sure what I have done to be patronised like that but !%?;

https://c.tenor.com/1siW-bIUBYAAAAAM/haha-goodone.gif

nah I am kidding. Call me Raskol, it's shorter :p

[Sleep]

how I treated Dolby

ladd playing very dodgy around me and ladd's comments on the you vs me thing.

Felt like ladd was trying not to step on my toes

- i dont buy that going after dolby is clearing especially when a lot of people jumped on him right away

- i dont see how him being dodgy and defending u by calling u town but not elaborating on it when i pressed him spews u town

- wdym he was "tying not to step on your toes"?

[hollowkatt]

I'm nit sure I understand what you're saying here, are u implying I might be influential in the chop and that'd lead to you? Because lol give me one example of a player that listens to me/,has read my posts and gone "yes this is good I agree it makes sense", just one please.

I'm definitely not sure you're my choice for today if that's your impression. I literally wrote an updated readslist with s lot of alternatives presented. I know others are Tring you and among them some people I trust, so it's not like I have locked in and not looking elsewhere, I just don't feel like your answers have done anything to help me find you here. It might just be a difference in playstyles but I don't want to blame it on that. Your case on me (that I answered with a list of 8 points) where some stuff where you misreading what I wrote (as in, yesterday as in second half of d1) etc, which you use to build a case, and peeling off the things I refute there, its not much left of your "case", and sure I might not have a lot going for me but like, I'd at least understand that focus if you chose it.


Also I hate it when ppl say "chop me" cuzmy instinct is to double down

No, here's what I'm trying to say:

sunbae said if we chop town he's contemplating giving you the vest to blow someone up. It's pretty clear to me that I'm the person you'd most want to explode, which is fine I get it.
But if that's the plan then chop me today as the "townie" that dies to give you the vest so that you have to blow someone else up.

Basically it's like this:

I know I'm POE and I know I'm likely not posting out of it. That's fine. Instead of continually saying "we really ought to look into HK" resolve me today. Then give you the vest tonight. Make a good decision.

We're currently very far ahead and the mafia have no extra KP after Ladd was chopped. We have time to make mistakes/clear POE via killing them.

It's like MtG, as long as at the end of the day we're +2 on the wolves it doesn't matter how many townies are actually alive, we're still winning this game. Town bodies dying are irrelevant to actually winning the game. We know who the PR are, they're the designated NKs yeah?

That leaves us in the POE to either resolve ourselves or get resolved. It's not "oh woe is me" it's an antiseptic way of reducing possibilities and guiding us towards a mathematical lock on winning the game.

I guess it doesn't matter if I'm the chop today if you promise to blow me up tomorrow

[Raskolnikov]

fwiw katze I thought that part of your post was towny for lacking self awareness ("how will I look with this post" isn't there, but "hey I am the coolest katze champ goat and I'll do it" is, which makes me think that's an OK post)

[hollowkatt]

I'm a bad vest target b/c I have zero impulse control.

[Sleep]

- i dont buy that going after dolby is clearing especially when a lot of people jumped on him right away

- i dont see how him being dodgy and defending u by calling u town but not elaborating on it when i pressed him spews u town

- wdym he was "tying not to step on your toes"?

like no offense but theres a lot of players here ladd might not want to step on the toes of as wolf and ur not near the top of that list.....

[katze]

Katze is competent sure. I have spent the last 20 minutes reading through their MU wolf games both on Katze and their turbo alt and I'm rock solid confident in this read now. As wolf katze is more likely to use self-depreciating humor, is more likely to crack jokes instead of solving, and is more likely to run the game on "shitpost" mode for lack of better terms than they are as town.

I did not say polarized btw, I said I think there's enough of a difference to call that out and make a read based on it.

It is a duality for me. Katze feels obvs town, newcomb does not feel obvs town. If my post reflects that it's because that's what I'm thinking.

I started your ISO with the intention of finding good stuff. The reason that didn't continue is because I wasn't finding more good stuff. I didn't go into your ISO with the intent to paint you as poorly as possible, that just happened

this is my new favorite chain of posts

i still feel pretty good about HK being a villager although my first thought of "i dont think a wolf ever writes this about v!me" is probably ambitious

[nebjiamn]

I'm a bad vest target b/c I have zero impulse control.
well now i want sunbae to target you even more

[Dobby]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/909331874239873084.webp?size=96&quality=lossless

the vote is probably flat out NAI and arguing about it is silly given it's phrased like a joke and i doubt dolby subs in and does/doesn't make the joke because you are/aren't in wolf chat

I think I wrote that later about the vote but at first i thought he meant "can only be this person that's mafia"

But I was dum cuz yeah it's just a joke about dobby/dolby there can only be one so yeah it's nai

[Raskolnikov]

I'm a bad vest target b/c I have zero impulse control.

I'd insert a sexual joke here but it will get me shaded. big sad.


thanks Sleep for the tally!

[Dobby]

Dobby:

why are you so concerned about everyones take on you specifically? you're starting to sound like a katze :stare:

I wrote a long wall just now where I talked about that :(

I luke solving based on what I know, and the only thing I know is that I'm town (this is a very clichee sentence atp but it's tru)

I have my strong reads and then the rest I'm trying to approach in as many ways as I can come up with and my personal favorite is 'do I think this person has a genuine take on my slot'

[Raskolnikov]

katze: ok someone else that isn't cape if possible. but who? Who is a wolf here iyo?

[Dobby]

I am not sure what I have done to be patronised like that but !%?;

https://c.tenor.com/1siW-bIUBYAAAAAM/haha-goodone.gif

nah I am kidding. Call me Raskol, it's shorter :p



Ngl in my mind everytime I read your name I have the rasputin song duuududududududu dudududududuuududu playing in my head

There lived a certain man in Russia long ago he was big and strong RAARAAA RASKOLNIKOV LOVER OF THE RUSSIAN QUEEN

[katze]

for the very little it's worth when i squinted at the thread d2/after dolby flip i was looking in something like and this is super non-clarified but

katze/monty/dobby

or like

sleep/hk/somethin

but then people were stronger v-reading dobby

from the stuff i read d1/early d2 i really don't see much reason for it but idk

there's only two wolves alive cuth :wall:


Fwiw, I'm almost certainly vesting Dobby if we chop town today

hm

if you feel strongly about dobby being town i feel like maybe you don't do that and instead just vest someone you think is mafia; you and zack are 99% of the time going to be the next 2 NKs so the off chance of accelerating you both being dead to mid D3 as opposed to N3 might not be that terrible given you both play assuming that you die tonight?

[Cuthillius]

"looking in"

[katze]

I wrote a long wall just now where I talked about that :(

I luke solving based on what I know, and the only thing I know is that I'm town (this is a very clichee sentence atp but it's tru)

I have my strong reads and then the rest I'm trying to approach in as many ways as I can come up with and my personal favorite is 'do I think this person has a genuine take on my slot'

nod nod

this is how i like to solve too i just don't recall you doing this much on D1

very possible im forgetting


katze: ok someone else that isn't cape if possible. but who? Who is a wolf here iyo?

i'm working on that

if i come around to "zomg everyone is so villagery except specifically cape90" im probably gonna just. say fuck it and vote him, lmao

[katze]

addendum to my last post is that "katze villagery but good wolf" has become common enough that it's definitely lost effectiveness for me but i still try nonetheless, sometimes it's p obvious when someone is being 100% genuine with their read and getting that correct feels super good so fair enuff


"looking in"

�� i cant read

[hollowkatt]

like ideally we chop a wolf today. the next best thing after that would be removing someone from the POE via the chop.
I'd like to not die but if I'm going to, and I think dobby + vest = dead HK we might as well do me today and give dobby the vest for tomorrow instead of chopping "random town" today and having dobby blow me up tomorrow.

That's the line of thinking that got me there.

[Dobby]

No, here's what I'm trying to say:

sunbae said if we chop town he's contemplating giving you the vest to blow someone up. It's pretty clear to me that I'm the person you'd most want to explode, which is fine I get it.
But if that's the plan then chop me today as the "townie" that dies to give you the vest so that you have to blow someone else up.

Basically it's like this:

I know I'm POE and I know I'm likely not posting out of it. That's fine. Instead of continually saying "we really ought to look into HK" resolve me today. Then give you the vest tonight. Make a good decision.

We're currently very far ahead and the mafia have no extra KP after Ladd was chopped. We have time to make mistakes/clear POE via killing them.

It's like MtG, as long as at the end of the day we're +2 on the wolves it doesn't matter how many townies are actually alive, we're still winning this game. Town bodies dying are irrelevant to actually winning the game. We know who the PR are, they're the designated NKs yeah?

That leaves us in the POE to either resolve ourselves or get resolved. It's not "oh woe is me" it's an antiseptic way of reducing possibilities and guiding us towards a mathematical lock on winning the game.

I guess it doesn't matter if I'm the chop today if you promise to blow me up tomorrow

(You're not atp I said that and I voted cape kek) qnd like if I get a vest I'm gonna send every hour I can (and I usually spend a lot because even though I try I can't not play when I'm in a game) to try and find the correct target, taking ded townies into mind

I just don't want to waste a lot of time on it today when I legit feel like I'm the most likely chop. You will be here at eod, cape will be here at eod, monty/cuth/ender/whoever has votes will all prolly be able to be here, I won't, I won't be able to yell loudly to get your hands off my smol butt and like, that's a big deal tbh, besides maybe sunbae nobody is really ballsy enough to townread me so uh yeah.

Thing is, I don't think you've got that much pressure on you beside from me? So saying "resolve me" when a lot of heavy voices are saying ur town is a bit dramatic/an overproprtioned reaction. Just because we are ahead doesn't mean that you should sacrifice yourself, because game could very easily end without you dying if you're town? It's kinda creepy that I'm the one telling you this here but I mean let's just win without throwing ourselves in the fire if we can? (I feel like throwing in "if you are town ofc" in every sentence to make sure nobody says I have tmi here kekw)

To be more clear, when sunbae and zack are dead, we won't have a set poe by then if, say, both wolves are still alive. Names like katze/monty/newcomb/cuth etc that split the playerlist will probably be around by then and then the poe will definitely be as clear as it seems now, this feels like a potentially huge deal and if anything should be a huge incentive for you to try and not just... die.

[hollowkatt]

I'd insert a sexual joke here but it will get me shaded. big sad.


thanks Sleep for the tally!

DM me post game and we'll make sex jokes till the wives tell us to stop or we're sleeping on the couch

[hollowkatt]

there's only two wolves alive cuth :wall:



hm

if you feel strongly about dobby being town i feel like maybe you don't do that and instead just vest someone you think is mafia; you and zack are 99% of the time going to be the next 2 NKs so the off chance of accelerating you both being dead to mid D3 as opposed to N3 might not be that terrible given you both play assuming that you die tonight?

Unfortunately we can't hold the threat of death over the head of the vested player or the right play would always be "vest wolf read / poe and force them to pop another poe person"

I mean obvs vested town is going to do that but vested wolf always "hero shoots"

[hollowkatt]

I guess that's a round about way of saying "vest giver should always vest poe/wolf reads"

[Zack]

Assuming we chop town (likely in an 11v2 situation), I think I'm supposed to target a villager read that I think the thread will miskill eventually? It takes away a chop and gives that chop the chance to make a kill instead. If that's the case, I was thinking Dobby because like, I really really really think Dobby is town, I've expressed that read as strongly as I can, and people are still really suspicious of them. So if I am right then Dobby turned from a mischop to a villager with kill power which seems good? And hitting a wolf let's them get an extra kill from the top which seems less good than clearing out two poe slots?

And if I'm wrong then cool, the thread was correct and I wasn't and a wolf dies.

Although typing it out there's only two wolves left maybe I'm incorrect and I'm supposed to just target a wolf read and if it's wrong they get to take someone on the way out anyways?

I think cape or hk make sense as people in the poe who could be villas

I think Dobby is wolfier than either but doesn't quite seem to be in the poe

also prob shouldn't talk about this too much in the thread tbh

[Dobby]

this is my new favorite chain of posts

i still feel pretty good about HK being a villager although my first thought of "i dont think a wolf ever writes this about v!me" is probably ambitious

You haven't even reposted my pasta I'm disappoint

[katze]

looks like im caught up so imma make some food and then figure out where head is at


Unfortunately we can't hold the threat of death over the head of the vested player or the right play would always be "vest wolf read / poe and force them to pop another poe person"

I mean obvs vested town is going to do that but vested wolf always "hero shoots"

well my point was that either the person you thought was mafia is actually mafia and they just kill the 2nd of sunbae/zack (hence the "play assuming you die tonight" bit) or they're a villager and you get a super deep in PoE villager a vest

im not sure if it's optimal? altho obviously if we chop a wolf today then try to vest a wolf

[hollowkatt]

(You're not atp I said that and I voted cape kek) qnd like if I get a vest I'm gonna send every hour I can (and I usually spend a lot because even though I try I can't not play when I'm in a game) to try and find the correct target, taking ded townies into mind

I just don't want to waste a lot of time on it today when I legit feel like I'm the most likely chop. You will be here at eod, cape will be here at eod, monty/cuth/ender/whoever has votes will all prolly be able to be here, I won't, I won't be able to yell loudly to get your hands off my smol butt and like, that's a big deal tbh, besides maybe sunbae nobody is really ballsy enough to townread me so uh yeah.

Thing is, I don't think you've got that much pressure on you beside from me? So saying "resolve me" when a lot of heavy voices are saying ur town is a bit dramatic/an overproprtioned reaction. Just because we are ahead doesn't mean that you should sacrifice yourself, because game could very easily end without you dying if you're town? It's kinda creepy that I'm the one telling you this here but I mean let's just win without throwing ourselves in the fire if we can? (I feel like throwing in "if you are town ofc" in every sentence to make sure nobody says I have tmi here kekw)

To be more clear, when sunbae and zack are dead, we won't have a set poe by then if, say, both wolves are still alive. Names like katze/monty/newcomb/cuth etc that split the playerlist will probably be around by then and then the poe will definitely be as clear as it seems now, this feels like a potentially huge deal and if anything should be a huge incentive for you to try and not just... die.

Wanna chop monte instead?
vote: Montmorency

[Dobby]

there's only two wolves alive cuth :wall:



hm

if you feel strongly about dobby being town i feel like maybe you don't do that and instead just vest someone you think is mafia; you and zack are 99% of the time going to be the next 2 NKs so the off chance of accelerating you both being dead to mid D3 as opposed to N3 might not be that terrible given you both play assuming that you die tonight?

I'm 100% dead within 2 days though so I'd very much prefer to be the vest target to not draw out the suffering thank you very much

[Zack]

trying to catch up on pages of billion word rambling wallposts is so tedious

[hollowkatt]

looks like im caught up so imma make some food and then figure out where head is at



well my point was that either the person you thought was mafia is actually mafia and they just kill the 2nd of sunbae/zack (hence the "play assuming you die tonight" bit) or they're a villager and you get a super deep in PoE villager a vest

im not sure if it's optimal? altho obviously if we chop a wolf today then try to vest a wolf

I have thoughts on this but not sure if I should post them tbh

[hollowkatt]

trying to catch up on pages of billion word rambling wallposts is so tedious

reading walls is for winners so I try not to do that

[Dobby]

like ideally we chop a wolf today. the next best thing after that would be removing someone from the POE via the chop.
I'd like to not die but if I'm going to, and I think dobby + vest = dead HK we might as well do me today and give dobby the vest for tomorrow instead of chopping "random town" today and having dobby blow me up tomorrow.

That's the line of thinking that got me there.

Ngl I've loved your posting and wim last couple of hours if that makes you feel any better. Like, it makes more sense than the.... fake case you made about me but this wim and stuff feels very towny in isolation if we skip anything before today's discussions. Granted I don't know your style but ye you're not my priority aorn

[Zack]

I don't really understand why cape is so low in the poe for so many people frankly

[Sunbae]

trying to catch up on pages of billion word rambling wallposts is so tedious

thats my bad. i wanted to get my thoughts on everyone but thought making it in one post was just going to be too big of a post so tried to break it into smaller ones lol

[hollowkatt]

Ngl I've loved your posting and wim last couple of hours if that makes you feel any better. Like, it makes more sense than the.... fake case you made about me but this wim and stuff feels very towny in isolation if we skip anything before today's discussions. Granted I don't know your style but ye you're not my priority aorn

honestly same. I like today dobby a lot more than I liked ISO dobby

[Dobby]

I think cape or hk make sense as people in the poe who could be villas

I think Dobby is wolfier than either but doesn't quite seem to be in the poe

also prob shouldn't talk about this too much in the thread tbh

Doesn't... seem to be in the po(op)e? Are we in the same game sir

[Dobby]

Wanna chop monte instead?
vote: Montmorency

Quixk turn of events lol. I'm gonna try and read monte so I can give him a fair shot before I sleep

[Zack]

No, here's what I'm trying to say:

sunbae said if we chop town he's contemplating giving you the vest to blow someone up. It's pretty clear to me that I'm the person you'd most want to explode, which is fine I get it.
But if that's the plan then chop me today as the "townie" that dies to give you the vest so that you have to blow someone else up.

Basically it's like this:

I know I'm POE and I know I'm likely not posting out of it. That's fine. Instead of continually saying "we really ought to look into HK" resolve me today. Then give you the vest tonight. Make a good decision.

We're currently very far ahead and the mafia have no extra KP after Ladd was chopped. We have time to make mistakes/clear POE via killing them.

It's like MtG, as long as at the end of the day we're +2 on the wolves it doesn't matter how many townies are actually alive, we're still winning this game. Town bodies dying are irrelevant to actually winning the game. We know who the PR are, they're the designated NKs yeah?

That leaves us in the POE to either resolve ourselves or get resolved. It's not "oh woe is me" it's an antiseptic way of reducing possibilities and guiding us towards a mathematical lock on winning the game.

I guess it doesn't matter if I'm the chop today if you promise to blow me up tomorrow

don't you think Dobby is a wolf? surely he would just blow up whichever of me orsunbaw wasn't nk'd

[Dobby]

don't you think Dobby is a wolf? surely he would just blow up whichever of me orsunbaw wasn't nk'd

Wait is this a tmi derp
[Spoiler]peepee poopoo[spoiler]

[Dobby]

Dammit aaaaaaaaa shit

[Raskolnikov]

If Maj is in, I d veto vesting a mafia read

[Dobby]

I shoot want to edit that post to fix the spoilers :wall:

[Dobby]

Wait

Can't you vest zack

!?!??!?!?!?

[Raskolnikov]

Because that would just robbe us half a day phase

[Dobby]

Did I just bigbrain this shit

[Dobby]

Because that would just robbe us half a day phase

What does this mean? Does the half day phase matter even or am I missing something

[nebjiamn]

Wait

Can't you vest zack

!?!??!?!?!?
dobby, what

lmao

[katze]

ok i wasnt that hungry so i just got an apple

Alive: (13/17)
1. zack
2. nebjiamn
3. cuthillius
6. Raskolnikov
7. Newcomb
9. EnderWiggin
10. Sunbae
11. Montmorency
12. roro__b
14. katze
15. Sleep
16. Cape90
17. hollowkatt

lets see...


7 clears wins the game


1. zack
2. nebjiamn
3. cuthillius
6. Raskolnikov
10. Sunbae
14. katze
15. Sleep

think i feel pretty content with that as a core, if i had to swap one name out it'd be to put in HK or mbe monty

11. Montmorency
17. hollowkatt

7. Newcomb
9. EnderWiggin
12. roro__b
16. Cape90

which would leave me that (with hk/monty a bit above, hk is more above monty tho)

[Raskolnikov]

Wait

Can't you vest zack

!?!??!?!?!?

NO :stare:

[Sleep]

I don't really understand why cape is so low in the poe for so many people frankly

i just explained it not that long ago, im not sure at all why u seem to think hes town so strongly atp

[Zack]

did Dobby ever explain why he reacted to dolby dying twice 5 hours apart like that?

idk what happened but I'm on my phone and somehow the above got posted to my blog instead of the thread

[katze]

Wait

Can't you vest zack

!?!??!?!?!?

wat

if you want to give the vest to someone you're super confident is town so they can dayvig into PoE then you don't target the mech clear

peepee poopoo

[Dobby]

dobby, what

lmao

Why the fuck not

Zack will die anyway and we get an extra kill from a confirmed townie

Am I just dumb or what lmao stop saying no :(

Sure then they can choose to nk someone else but I prefer having a good townie (or me) with the vest

[katze]

like if you're a villager sunbae is p confident you're a villager so why would u even suggest that :stare:

[Zack]

Wait

Can't you vest zack

!?!??!?!?!?

are you serious?

[hollowkatt]

Quixk turn of events lol. I'm gonna try and read monte so I can give him a fair shot before I sleep

yeah, I don't think you're a wolf tbh

[Dobby]

did Dobby ever explain why he reacted to dolby dying twice 5 hours apart like that?

idk what happened but I'm on my phone and somehow the above got posted to my blog instead of the thread

Is this something I wrote or are u memeing my ass

Listen I've taken my slep meds qnd my brain is dumber than usual and I feel like a clown wirh the last 10 posts

Treat me like a 3 year old pls

(Also the 5 hour thing was because I used just instead of only (which means the exact same thing in swedish) as in i ONLY noticed that Dolby got blown up, not that sunbae was the sorcerer

5 hours earlier I had just said kekw dolby was wolf nice

So not just as in "now"

[Dobby]

like if you're a villager sunbae is p confident you're a villager so why would u even suggest that :stare:

Because I'm pretty sure I'll be a yoink tonight and if I'm not i will be tomorrow (gameday) and I don't want that for myself because I'll prolly fight it with all I've got (I don't have work for a lot of days forward except for tomorrow irl) and I'd rather enjoy life

[Raskolnikov]

Hk/Dobby getting together is something.

[Dobby]

Why is everyone wat ing me stop

I trust zzcks judgment tbh (except for some of his tastes in music), but I'd rather he make a choice than someone poe

Only downside is that mafia gets a new fresh nk target but like, isn't it still worth it

[hollowkatt]

don't you think Dobby is a wolf? surely he would just blow up whichever of me orsunbaw wasn't nk'd

I no longer think dobby is a wolf.

[Dobby]

Because I'm pretty sure I'll be a yoink tonight and if I'm not i will be tomorrow (gameday) and I don't want that for myself because I'll prolly fight it with all I've got (I don't have work for a lot of days forward except for tomorrow irl) and I'd rather enjoy life

As in i cant be here for eod and that means I can't defend myself and fight votes being planted on me

Itisknown.gif

[hollowkatt]

Hk/Dobby getting together is something.

I've altered the deal.

[Dobby]

Zack calling this my blog but I stil just got to 6th highest poster :stare:

(Also sorry for my rabid style of posting I'm just actually enjoying playing mafia this game and I haven't for sooooooo long)

[katze]

Because I'm pretty sure I'll be a yoink tonight and if I'm not i will be tomorrow (gameday) and I don't want that for myself because I'll prolly fight it with all I've got (I don't have work for a lot of days forward except for tomorrow irl) and I'd rather enjoy life

can you reword this ive reread it multiple times and still am not sure what it says

[Sleep]

Why the fuck not

Zack will die anyway and we get an extra kill from a confirmed townie

Am I just dumb or what lmao stop saying no :(

Sure then they can choose to nk someone else but I prefer having a good townie (or me) with the vest

its wasting a town kill on confirmed town

you want mafia to have to spend a kill on zack

vesting zack is strictly -EV

[Zack]

Hk/Dobby getting together is something.

i don't really understand dobby flipping from HK to cape after tunneling HK the whole game pmuch and not saying much about cape

felt more like following the winds of the thread :shrug:

[Dobby]

can you reword this ive reread it multiple times and still am not sure what it says

Uhm like

I don't want to get yeeted

And i will fight it with all I've got if I'm about to

But tonight I will probably be the yeet because I won't be here for eod, I need to sleep in like an hour or something, rest of the week I don't have work though.

And if I'm not yeeted today I will be tomorrow, and that means more time I need to duffer because playing mafia to try and work against being yeeted instead of playing the game is pure suffering

[Zack]

Alive: (13/17)
1. zack
2. nebjiamn
3. cuthillius
6. Raskolnikov
7. Newcomb
9. EnderWiggin
10. Sunbae
11. Montmorency
12. roro__b
14. katze
15. Sleep
16. Cape90
17. hollowkatt


clears - zack, sunbae

likely villa - rask, cuth, sleep

soulread villa - benneh, newcomb

above null - katze, cape, HK

below null - ender, dobby

monty - monty

[katze]

Uhm like

I don't want to get yeeted

And i will fight it with all I've got if I'm about to

But tonight I will probably be the yeet because I won't be here for eod, I need to sleep in like an hour or something, rest of the week I don't have work though.

And if I'm not yeeted today I will be tomorrow, and that means more time I need to duffer because playing mafia to try and work against being yeeted instead of playing the game is pure suffering

okay that makes more sense i thought you meant tonight as in like, mafia NKing you and i was like "wtf this literally cannot be a real thought????"

[Raskolnikov]

@Inawordyes: gamestate analysis on Newcomb wagon?

[katze]

ok i wasnt that hungry so i just got an apple

Alive: (13/17)
1. zack
2. nebjiamn
3. cuthillius
6. Raskolnikov
7. Newcomb
9. EnderWiggin
10. Sunbae
11. Montmorency
12. roro__b
14. katze
15. Sleep
16. Cape90
17. hollowkatt

lets see...


7 clears wins the game


1. zack
2. nebjiamn
3. cuthillius
6. Raskolnikov
10. Sunbae
14. katze
15. Sleep

think i feel pretty content with that as a core, if i had to swap one name out it'd be to put in HK or mbe monty

11. Montmorency
17. hollowkatt

7. Newcomb
9. EnderWiggin
12. roro__b
16. Cape90

which would leave me that (with hk/monty a bit above, hk is more above monty tho)


Alive: (13/17)
1. zack
2. nebjiamn
3. cuthillius
6. Raskolnikov
7. Newcomb
9. EnderWiggin
10. Sunbae
11. Montmorency
12. roro__b
14. katze
15. Sleep
16. Cape90
17. hollowkatt


clears - zack, sunbae

likely villa - rask, cuth, sleep

soulread villa - benneh, newcomb

above null - katze, cape, HK

below null - ender, dobby

monty - monty

you remind me of bronana from the syndicate, he's really cool

this is my way of saying that i'm happy our views are mostly aligned

[Dobby]

i don't really understand dobby flipping from HK to cape after tunneling HK the whole game pmuch and not saying much about cape

felt more like following the winds of the thread :shrug:

How about it's because of our discussions, qnd trying to actively like, not tunnel? I like hks posting last few hours, and he's been one of few that has been like, fighting, and not just gone mia. I'm not saying he is top town and I still don't like his case on me nor his "kill me it's good for town" but yeah he's posted well enough that I don't have him as a priority anymore.

Also dont you think I would follow the winds of the thread way earlier if I wanted to do that? Like, any squirrel could just open thread and go "this is the smart push to make". I don't have anything to gain from trying to get a vanity wagon gain traction as wolf. Its very easy to just sheep shit but yeah no I haven't. If I was following the winds of the thread I would've given up on him like 30-50 hours ago or something

[katze]

@Inawordyes: gamestate analysis on Newcomb wagon?

pinging iawy for analysis that isn't just his vibereads? smh

[Dobby]

okay that makes more sense i thought you meant tonight as in like, mafia NKing you and i was like "wtf this literally cannot be a real thought????"

I wish

[katze]

I wish

wish accepted, factional nightkill has been set to dobby

[Zack]

How about it's because of our discussions, qnd trying to actively like, not tunnel? I like hks posting last few hours, and he's been one of few that has been like, fighting, and not just gone mia. I'm not saying he is top town and I still don't like his case on me nor his "kill me it's good for town" but yeah he's posted well enough that I don't have him as a priority anymore.

Also dont you think I would follow the winds of the thread way earlier if I wanted to do that? Like, any squirrel could just open thread and go "this is the smart push to make". I don't have anything to gain from trying to get a vanity wagon gain traction as wolf. Its very easy to just sheep shit but yeah no I haven't. If I was following the winds of the thread I would've given up on him like 30-50 hours ago or something

I mean hks recent posts seem very similar to me as the posts he's been making all game

[Dobby]

wish accepted, factional nightkill has been set to dobby

So you are wolf after all

[Dobby]

I mean hks recent posts seem very similar to me as the posts he's been making all game

We haven't really levelled at all nor had live discussions at all before today.

And i sti stand by that the case he made (the one you commented on a "good post") was really bad and half of the things in it I addressed in the following post as like, they were just straight up wrong ("you are lying when you say you posted yesterday" (as if it's even an argument for anything) when I had been spamming the thread the IRL gameday before, etc. Like, several of those arguments were just not true

And that seems to be the time where you shifted re me as well. So if I see posts like that where he 1) has that really weird progression on ender that I've linked a few times (also where is ender i forgot completely about his existence) 2) builds a case on me with non-arguments and stands by it despite most of it being refuted, I'm going to be very suspicious of him. But now he's made more sense and I like his approach and what looks like a genuine will to solve, so I'm going to tweak my read because of it. It's not weird at all, it's mafia.


It's like, I pushed sleep really hard, then I was like "I liked your defense I can see where you're coming from, sleep is one of my top town reads now", why isn't that weird

[Cape90]

- wdym he was "tying not to step on your toes"?

I think ur concerns are fair as the spew on you looks a lot better, but I will elab here

before that, I was getting the opposite feeling of ladd responding to you about me (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829040&viewfull=1#post2053829040)

ladd would do this thing with me to where they didn't want to give me a full town read but use dodgy language to portray that



2) i am saying your push on cape is wolfy, cape is a thin villa lean for me. the 2 things can cohexist

the specification on thin villa lean is a good example of this.

There was also the fact I was on the very bottom of a chonky townreads list ladd made

there was something else

I'm kinda done looking at ladd for like, ever, feel like its a waste

[katze]

lmao i just noticed that zack has a link to his blog now

big fan


So you are wolf after all

this post is wolfy but every time i try to articulate why i think it is it sounds dumb

tonally wolfy meme or something idfk

[Cape90]

I don't really understand why cape is so low in the poe for so many people frankly

Honestly, I would put myself pretty low in my own POE, this has NOT been my "A game" not recently

[Dobby]

lmao i just noticed that zack has a link to his blog now

big fan



this post is wolfy but every time i try to articulate why i think it is it sounds dumb

tonally wolfy meme or something idfk

You realise it's a joke and not a hint of seriousness in that, right? Because I can definitely see that being the case but lol

[Cape90]

Dammit aaaaaaaaa shit

nice

[Dobby]

don't you think Dobby is a wolf? surely he would just blow up whichever of me orsunbaw wasn't nk'd

Cape reminded me

Can we just go back to this and smart ppl tell me if this could be a perspective slip or whatever the correct word is

I don't think he was townreading me at this point? Aaaaa. This game

[katze]

You realise it's a joke and not a hint of seriousness in that, right? Because I can definitely see that being the case but lol

is it? i must be spoiled by joyous cats and wowee dogs cause it felt p serious to me

shrug

[Zack]

We haven't really levelled at all nor had live discussions at all before today.

And i sti stand by that the case he made (the one you commented on a "good post") was really bad and half of the things in it I addressed in the following post as like, they were just straight up wrong ("you are lying when you say you posted yesterday" (as if it's even an argument for anything) when I had been spamming the thread the IRL gameday before, etc. Like, several of those arguments were just not true

And that seems to be the time where you shifted re me as well. So if I see posts like that where he 1) has that really weird progression on ender that I've linked a few times (also where is ender i forgot completely about his existence) 2) builds a case on me with non-arguments and stands by it despite most of it being refuted, I'm going to be very suspicious of him. But now he's made more sense and I like his approach and what looks like a genuine will to solve, so I'm going to tweak my read because of it. It's not weird at all, it's mafia.


It's like, I pushed sleep really hard, then I was like "I liked your defense I can see where you're coming from, sleep is one of my top town reads now", why isn't that weird

so why is cape a wolf?

[Zack]

Cape reminded me

Can we just go back to this and smart ppl tell me if this could be a perspective slip or whatever the correct word is

I don't think he was townreading me at this point? Aaaaa. This game

he made several posts after saying it was because he no longer thought you were a wolf...

[Dobby]

is it? i must be spoiled by joyous cats and wowee dogs cause it felt p serious to me

shrug

I genuinely can't tell if you are serious but

To be clear

It'd take a bit more to make me post smth like that seriously especially in that context and uh are you memeing me

[Dobby]

he made several posts after saying it was because he no longer thought you were a wolf...

Listening I'm tired

But I thought the first time he said he thought I might be town was in response to me saying that about him

But I've prolly got my timeliness wrong

I'm nearing my deadline for the night

[katze]

I genuinely can't tell if you are serious but

To be clear

It'd take a bit more to make me post smth like that seriously especially in that context and uh are you memeing me

im 100% serious

im making the executive decision that this read is bad because reading that post back as "it's a meme" fits kinda just feel like the alternative fits better

[Cape90]

fwiw katze I thought that part of your post was towny for lacking self awareness ("how will I look with this post" isn't there, but "hey I am the coolest katze champ goat and I'll do it" is, which makes me think that's an OK post)

This post is good, yes. However I have had the same read slung at me from other people this game which is giving me the heeby jeebies

[Dobby]

I posted before I was done

If there's anything I can answer/say/do so I don't get yeetrd tonight shoot because I'll be slep soon and I'd very much love to not die, you've got a few minutes, proly up to an hour if I can fight my meds

[Cape90]

vote: Newcomb

also, look

not me!

It seems like you have the answers to some of your own concerns on if it is not me who is it

[Dobby]

im 100% serious

im making the executive decision that this read is bad because reading that post back as "it's a meme" fits kinda just feel like the alternative fits better

Majority of my posts tonight have been like, memey tonally because I've been in a good mood and I carry my feelz on my sleeve or whatever thebword is

I talked about my yerting my smol butt

And lots of peepeepoopoo and stuff so

This was one of those

[Cape90]

how bad would it be if I call both katze/newcomb town?

Not sure I like this inconsistency, like this is said then 3 hours later, boom bye newcomb

[Zack]

thing is he did the same thing with cape and im kind of coming around to cape being v, he cant have been chainsaw defending everyone because theres not enough wolves for that

i havent really had a problem with his posts today but i havent been assured of their towniness

it's not the same tho

he explained clear, legitimate reasons for why he town read cape and was genuinely trying to kill you for it (probably because he figured there was a good chance of chaining two mislunches this way, regardless of which of you died first)

his reasons for defending Monty were really thin and he was shading me for my vote and subtly trying to get me to back off, not a serious attempt to kill me

[hollowkatt]

pinging iawy for analysis that isn't just his vibereads? smh

I'm bad at photochop but pretend I took the planet fitness logo and re-wrote it so that it says "iawy slander-free zone" instead of judgement free zone

[Cape90]

If you want my read on you to evolve and change, just play the game, show me you're invested in it, show me your thought process. If you want to find common ground with me specifically, talk to me about literally anything other than your alignment or mine.

I really don't see how katze isn't invested in the game

That's like saying HK isn't invested in the game

[Zack]

I posted before I was done

If there's anything I can answer/say/do so I don't get yeetrd tonight shoot because I'll be slep soon and I'd very much love to not die, you've got a few minutes, proly up to an hour if I can fight my meds

can you please answer me on why you think cape is a wolf? you've ignored me twice

[Cape90]

I mean, you voted me over a wolf so this is comedy. I understand when you say I can be wrong. It's true and you can be a villager. But asking who is the partner you tried to save is theater seriously. You said ladd but you did me actually.

I don't get good vibes from this shade Rask was laying down on Dobby when Dobby was saying


Who's the partner I tried to save exactly? I preferred yeeting ladd over newcomb, I think that was pretty obvious

[katze]

Not sure I like this inconsistency, like this is said then 3 hours later, boom bye newcomb


I really don't see how katze isn't invested in the game

That's like saying HK isn't invested in the game

cape what are you doing rn

like how are you reading this game at this moment


I'm bad at photochop but pretend I took the planet fitness logo and re-wrote it so that it says "iawy slander-free zone" instead of judgement free zone

https://i.imgur.com/V2nx0vj.png

[Newcomb]

I really don't see how katze isn't invested in the game

That's like saying HK isn't invested in the game

why are you randomly quoting a tiny part of a post I made at like the beginning of D1 and using it to shade me by making it seem like it should be held to the standards of the current state of the game?

[hollowkatt]

cape what are you doing rn

like how are you reading this game at this moment



https://i.imgur.com/V2nx0vj.png

ILY <3

[Dobby]

can you please answer me on why you think cape is a wolf? you've ignored me twice

I can try and throw something together, but I seriously, seriously tired so it'll be bad so I don't want to. "I saw a few posts I didn't like and I've mentioned them before" in combination with "cape/monty/maybe ender are the best options for me rn" probably isn't good enough, rifgt? don't think I have a compelling case because, uh, it wouldn't have mattered (see: me earlier cases this game) i know I said I'd read cape and minty but I've just been spamming the thread instead of doing useful things

[Dobby]

Oh and the fact as cape not shading me at all until I mentioned his name in a not good context :wowee:

[Cape90]

True, I'm getting a bit too caught up in this. It just kinda feels like an omgus when hk wrote a long post with made up stuff (that I legit refute and nullify or whatever the word is) in my answer to him, its basically statements that are straight up incorrect, and get a "good post" from zack, and then you say "I'm just gonna trust em". Like, how do I put my brain in a world where are 3 are town? I don't think I'd be able to even if i got it physically planted somewhere

And yeah monty is on my agenda for the day so us cape because he's kinda flown utr.

I will say we have a really solid poe, there's always tinfoil that we can bring up, but hopefully when sunbae and zack die we have at least one more wolf dead or game is over. But just laying down flat and saying "yeah I'm just town but I need to die if you can't see it" is not a thing that's going to happen either.

Also sunbae is literally in my head with each of their posts so that should amount to something lol

I was a wagon and a strong contender for vote off at some point during day 1 so I wouldn't consider myself under the radar.

I sort of like this refute to HK's lil wallpost which Dobby says has "made up stuff" and HK gets stuff incorrect

I don't exactly know what the last part talking about Sunbae is exactly saying, like it cant be like they are noting Sunbae's postings because they are mafia since they are confirmed town yeah? I was thinking it was because Dobby wants to work with confirmed town perhaps? That would make sense to me

[Dobby]

I was a wagon and a strong contender for vote off at some point during day 1 so I wouldn't consider myself under the radar.

I sort of like this refute to HK's lil wallpost which Dobby says has "made up stuff" and HK gets stuff incorrect

I don't exactly know what the last part talking about Sunbae is exactly saying, like it cant be like they are noting Sunbae's postings because they are mafia since they are confirmed town yeah? I was thinking it was because Dobby wants to work with confirmed town perhaps? That would make sense to me

Sunbqe has been describing exactly what's going on in my head in a few posts and it's like, described me (and a couple of my standpoints) in better words than I could do myself

Did you read the post with "refutes" or are you talking about the example in this speicfic post?

[Cape90]

btw, this is the post who got me thinking HK might be a wolf trying something different. (the first part of it) I am going through his ISO quickly to see if it sticks

the first part of that isn't really wolfy when I look back on it. Not at all. Even if it is wrong, I feel like the whole


The downside to ego solving is that other people are not me (I know, this is a shocking revelation) and don't necessarily react to things the same way I would. This isn't stopping me from making the read.

kinda wraps it around to it being alright

[Cape90]

Did you read the post with "refutes" or are you talking about the example in this speicfic post?

okay I wasn't thinking of the implication of that word there

[Raskolnikov]

Not sure I like this inconsistency, like this is said then 3 hours later, boom bye newcomb

yeah inconsistency. Like I think some of his posts look good but I can't help thinking he only SRed katze and that didn't go anywhere. Also I am mostly testing this wagon rn, and now that has been said, it's mostly over I guess.

[Sleep]

I think ur concerns are fair as the spew on you looks a lot better, but I will elab here

before that, I was getting the opposite feeling of ladd responding to you about me (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829040&viewfull=1#post2053829040)

ladd would do this thing with me to where they didn't want to give me a full town read but use dodgy language to portray that



the specification on thin villa lean is a good example of this.

There was also the fact I was on the very bottom of a chonky townreads list ladd made

there was something else

I'm kinda done looking at ladd for like, ever, feel like its a waste

i dont see how any of this really spews you town or why you would think that it does, sorry

[Cape90]

I think Rask is town for a couple of points they made like them saying they don't wanna discount Mont for the unvote at EOD day 1 and feeling like they post in this stream of conscious way, was thinking along the lines of


can Monty and Newcomb be together? prolly not (why unvote in this case?)

hmm

like that's a good example of what I am talking about

I liked this sort of meta read on HK, I wanted to revisit there myself, but before EOD


I really need to ISO HK before EOD. I am clearing him for his Dobby vote but need to see the dynamic at the time. I had that thought yesterday that HK was actually trying to gimmic his town meta (relaxed, jokey, with solvey posts mixed in as the game progresses) but failing to sus folks convincingly. He switched to Dolby once Dolby flipped red (was starting to gear up toward my slot) and have mostly posted about him since then? hmm

I don't exactly know what the bolded means, like you can't swap to somebody who already flipped???

[Cape90]

i dont see how any of this really spews you town or why you would think that it does, sorry

fair enough

[katze]

cape what are you doing rn

like how are you reading this game at this moment Cape90

[Raskolnikov]

I don't get good vibes from this shade Rask was laying down on Dobby when Dobby was saying

lol. You just asked how I could be flipfloping on Newcomb's slot, but u are doing the same here. dude.

Beside I am not following you. I accused him of trying to save Ladd pretty directly. Ofc he refuted it but it doesn't change the facts. he voted me without a word when there were other options he had been sussing prior to that. What you read is me calling him out about it but also acknowledging he could ultimatly be a villager with bad timing and not verbose enough about his own progression. Hence why I tryed to pressure him to get more out.

[Cape90]

cape what are you doing rn

like how are you reading this game at this moment


im mostly just going through different people's isolated posts and seeing what sticks out and trying to get a solve since I feel like I could go over today and I want to make a good blueprint for when I die, if I don't cool

[Raskolnikov]

I think Rask is town for a couple of points they made like them saying they don't wanna discount Mont for the unvote at EOD day 1 and feeling like they post in this stream of conscious way, was thinking along the lines of



like that's a good example of what I am talking about

I liked this sort of meta read on HK, I wanted to revisit there myself, but before EOD



I don't exactly know what the bolded means, like you can't swap to somebody who already flipped???

sorry I am back reading and reading live too, and trying to get myself understood despite the amount of typos.

"He switched to Dobby once Dolby flipped red" was what I wanted to type (check out HK's ISO, it's pretty clear).

[katze]

im mostly just going through different people's isolated posts and seeing what sticks out and trying to get a solve since I feel like I could go over today and I want to make a good blueprint for when I die, if I don't cool

��

alrighty

had the same confusion as newcomb (why are you reacting to early D1 posts now when the concern you had applied when he posted it) but keep on doing you

[Dobby]

zack if I would give you my vote, who do you want me to place it on?
Sunbae too

[Zack]

zack if I would give you my vote, who do you want me to place it on?
Sunbae too

who do you want to place it on?

[Cape90]

why do I have almost as many posts as ender right now, this doesnt seem right, I feel like they really declined in activity from yesterday to today

[Zack]

i applied it more to turbos/mashes than normal games (and I also noticed it first in my own wolf games iirc)

sometimes as a wolf you see a post where you feel like you either 1) have to answer to or 2) have a smart answer to but to look like you didnt just pop in to answer that post you then also latch onto a random other post that happened before



i do think ender reaction to zack/mine (but especially zack really) push is the wolfiest thing in an overall p villagery thread


newcomb seems an obvious villager imo

i mean ladd said this but he was voting sunbae and then piled on sunbae more in 298 (while staying on him)

I really don't think anything ladd said about ender is remotely clearing, he is perfectly capable of distancing from a teammate d1 and neither of them ever felt that interested in actually killing the other, despite the supposed mutual suspicion.

[Cape90]

��

alrighty

had the same confusion as newcomb (why are you reacting to early D1 posts now when the concern you had applied when he posted it) but keep on doing you

I feel like it's the best way for me to play days, is to keep rereading things and if I have anything to comment on about, I do so. Mostly because I kinda have been struggalugging to get in the emperors new groove this game

[Dobby]

who do you want to place it on?

honestly

just going by gut again and not having read back

cape, ender or monty


i just gave ender a free pass cuz he was like top posting and uh, i think cuz i hated hk's case on him, but then idk

monty to sheep you, clearly

[Cape90]

I have thoughts on this but not sure if I should post them tbh

I really don't see the benefit of making a comment like this and withholding information in this manner

[Zack]

i will prob be around even less tomorrow

villas

newcomb
zack

benneh

katze
sleep
HK
mont
ladd
cape

:clown:

why is monty there?

[Montmorency]

I don't think anyone has responded to any of my Monty stuff? other than newcomb referencing it

and people are still giving him credit for ending on ladd when I've pointed out 80 times that he actually tried to unvote but it was at :01 (after seeing several other people suddenly vote ladd)

his posts today are not doing it today for me but I seem to be on an island here

Then let's mason. I'm telling you, we need to agree on Sunbae vesting me tonight. It's in your best interest. Think about it.

Dobby
Sunbae
If NC is scum, mafia exchange both Zack and Sunbae for him. Too risky. And if he's town, then you lose his apparently-prodigious town-presence. Best to give it to Zack, who dies eventually - but then you realize Zack dies tonight if there's any hint of him grabbing the vest.

So I'm the only sensible option.


strangest thing with mont is his clearing of kat/sleep/HK while clamoring for me but i just assumd that comes from inexperience with that playerlist more than anything? I guess it kind of makes sense if he's pre-flipping newcomb w but if thats the case why's he pushing for my lunch?

but aside from that i just kinda think he's a villager? i get he unvoted but uh, eh, idk

Not clearing, just not in immediate POE. I think it's best to have one or both of you resolved before moving on. Why do people post about me clearing someone when I have cleared literally no players all day?

I don't agree that you can only be partnered with NC (vs. it being possible) so there's no mechanical reason to clear NC first. Although I guess you are each equally TRed by now?

To reiterate for reference, I also don't think you can be paired with cape, so that's potential information. Though on the other hand maybe it's no longer applicable with EMFH rules in effect. But that's F3 territory.


Like these are the last posts from Monty at EOD. And it doesn't make sense to shade (to the point of hinting Winston scum) the read on Ladd to sheeping it so quickly without outside, thread related influence?

I've explained myself multiple times.


I only* saw ( just in swedish is used like only) as in i saw Dolby died but I didn't see that you were sorcerer


OTOH this makes good sense.


my comment was a joke because we have the same reads kinda and I keep nodding at zack's posts smh. (but rejoice, this game is pretty much filled with pros. we'll win it no matter what :p)

:sick:


I think the team could simply be mont/dobby

If I was partnered with Dobby I would have stayed on Rask.


i caught up abd dont have a ton to add but theres two things in my mind

- i think that if newcomb is town (and that is a big if) katze is more likely a wolf than ender. katzes posts have felt all right but i dont...have strong reasons to clear her

- i'm still mighty suspicious of cuth

Good post.


Okay genuine question to the 29459239439 people who want to "resolve" / infolynch me.

Does the game become really different or obvious if you get confirmation I'm a villager? Because I'm sitting here *knowing I'm a villager* and weathervaning pretty hard. Like am I missing something? If you were in my shoes and knew I was a villager would you just go, "oh of course, it's obviously X/Y."

I'll take the help at this point.

The hope is obviously for scum flip. It's not a strong agenda, but it's a reasonable one. Cf. Sunbae below, I would look at katze more in the townflip.


Fwiw, I'm almost certainly vesting Dobby if we chop town today

:bigcry:

Tempts me to vote Dobby.


ok

u voted monty because he opened the day pushing u and disliked him thinking u would bus, the ? is do u think monty would bus in that situation? i realize he tried to unvote but it still has to be considered he voted there in the first place

Correction, I put Cuth at the very top of my leans at SOD, in my opening post.

And as I said, I unvoted for the tie.

Is this microphone on or what??


i'm glad i never listened to my gut trepidation on you zack

i was kinda worried about you all d1 but it never got to the point where it felt worth it and you had some moments

Pretty much.


i didn't sorry

uh you were just sorta confidently v-reading me d1 for the most part

and i think it's maybe fair but also i felt like i was playing in a space in the thread wrt engagement and stuff that honestly lines up with how i often approach d1s as a wolf where i'm there and engaging but not leaning in too hard because i don't want to get strongly v-read d1 lol

even though it was more because i had two exams and a bunch of work to do and so i was only able to engage so much but was still like present a fair bit

and you often take a more uh cautious look at me than most people because you know my style of approach

and it surprised me a bit that you weren't more sketched out by my general patterns of engagement than you were

What do you make of my D1 reactions to you?

[Newcomb]

Newcomb,

I don't mean to be pointed or anything. We have two flipped wolves and 4 known villagers on day two. I know this is a laid back casual game and it's unreasonable to expect going super hard, but at some point I need you to just tell me who the wolves are from your pov. I've enjoyed your posting today and think your reasons for town reading some people are good, but townreading people in an 11v2 games with two dead wolves is easier to do for a wolf and calling people wolves in that game state is hard for them.

So like, not due to self-interactions or how easy/hard things are. Just "based on ladd and monstr/dolby being wolves and how things have played out, i think these people are the wolves".

Alright here's where I'm at.

2. nebjiamn
3. cuthillius
6. Raskolnikov
9. EnderWiggin
11. Montmorency
12. roro__b
14. katze
15. Sleep
16. Cape90
17. hollowkatt

2 wolves in 10 names. Start taking people off the list.

Bennah and cuth are my first cuts (i.e. strongest townreads). With bennah, it's that his approach to me has felt the most genuine out of anyone ITT. For cuth, it's that of the ladd voters he's the one where like... I know Cuth as a player pretty well, I think? I don't know monte or rask so I don't really have a mental map of what they would or wouldn't do. But in that situation if Cuth's partnered with ladd I just really don't believe Cuth as a player puts that vote down. Not with the speed that it happened. He just doesn't strike me as that... ruthless is maybe the wrong word. Mercurial?

I think I'm also just gonna let jesus take the wheel and take sleep off the list. This is mostly just a thread flow / thread state thing, and an overall body of work thing.

Raskolnikov
EnderWiggin
Montmorency
roro__b
katze
Cape90
hollowkatt

I feel pretty comfortable saying both wolves in there. Like if they're not, I got fooled, straight up. GG to whoever.

Technically I really only *need* one more name to call it a real PoE - village should control 6 more kills - but I know you're looking for more in the way of actual committed wolfreads. Which, yeah, fair. At the same time like... idk I kind of reserve the right to not *always* have a strong wolfread? I know the game seems like it should be easy on paper, but the ladd wagon was just so *weird* and so fast that I think it's perfectly reasonable to not have a strong sense of a lock solve even with 2 reds, 2 greens, and 2 confirmed on d2. So yeah part of me just wants to kind of be stubborn and go, nah, I'm not gonna force this. But I do know that if the tables were turned and I were in your shoes, that's what I'd want to see.

So let's take a swing at forcing it -

Rask - I see Rask as kind of ... jumpy. Flitting around from topic to topic. Uneven engagement levels. Trying to track a single line of thought - like their read on me, is confusing. You go from like, naysaying Ender's wall on me, to saying they found zack/me villagery at SoD2, to saying that EoD1 they could have voted me, to going through and picking a bunch of kind of random stuff to shade me for. I think this actually feels kind of TWTBTWTBAW? Just like, the... unevenness of it, the messiness of it. I skimmed through this ISO kind of looking for reasons to call rask a wolf but I think gun to my head they're just a villager. It's also like... pretty hard to get away from the fact that they could have easily voted me EoD1 and swung it onto a villager instead of the wolf PR, so like... yeah. Think I gotta just take that one off the table.

HK - Biggest thing for me with HK is that he just doesn't really feel like he's got a team. He's playing like... a bit removed from the thread, but I believe he cares about the things he's posting about. I also think he hasn't really changed tonally from before EoD/dolby dying, to after it, which like. If he were a wolf I feel like some of that body blow would leak through into the posting, since his thread position wouldn't be awesome. At the end of the day I wouldn't be like, *surprised* if he were a wolf, since the overall top down level of like, is he engaged with the game the same way bennah's engaged with the game? No, not really. But yeah gun to my head, villager.

Katze - I think I'm just gonna say wolf. They way they were interacting with me, was gonna say early on but really all game, is just so *weird*. Like some of that can be explained by the miscommunication in them thinking I knew their meta or w/e, but not all of it. They've just felt so like... softly yet continually focused on me, to the extent where it feels like they know I have to die to town KP at some point for wolves to win. Just kind of a steady, "hey guys remember Newcomb, it seems like the thread hasn't talked about Newcomb in a while, let's talk about Newcomb like MAYBE he's a villager but MAN I don't KNOW". I admit some of this is wanting to be vindicated in my early read. But yeah if I had a bomb right now I think I'd go for the mildly hero shot and take it, knowing it wasn't like the most high percentage shot ever. But fuck it right? I could tack on - and it's definitely a tack-on - the fact that katze is posting a lot and generally around a fair bit and I can't off the top of my head know what he thinks about the game or who he wants to kill the same way I can track like, sleep or zack. Which, yeah, that could absolutely just be my own casualness this game seeping through, I freely admit I'm not paying attention to things to a degree where this would be a real red flag. But it's worth mentioning at least.

Monte - Yeah kind of think monte has a pretty decent chance of flipping red as well? Like, if he hadn't done two things - those things being the vote on ladd, and the aesthetically pleasing recent quote wall - you'd just kind of write him off as a monssr/dolby style "yeah probably just wolf fine PoE ez". The ladd vote was the 2nd one, the winston vote had been there for a while, so like, it kinda.... started the flashwagon, as opposed to finishing it or cementing it. And it did happen real, real fast. And there was the unvote. Which I don't think makes it likely a bus on its *own*, but I do think it puts what normally would be a pretty clearing vote in a normal game where the ladd wagon built and grew in a normal amount of time as opposed to like, literally 5 minutes or w/e. It wouldn't shock me at all if a hipfire/ gutty wolf threw down a distancing vote on a partner near EoD where wagons were that disorganized, and couldn't really hop off or saw the writing on the wall too late to do anything. Then there's the most recent flurry of posts. Which... I had a kind of negative reaction to, but have been trying to check myself on it since a lot of it was a visceral opposition to the whole wanting to resolve or infokill me without actually having a read on me. I think the most clear thing I can say about monte's recent posts is that they feel performative. Kind of... wanting to be seen, wanting to have a presence, being smooth about it. Yeah. Decent shot of being a wolf IMO.

Ender - I kind of want to just yolo Cuth's read and take ender off the table? But man if anyone fits the mold of a wolf who got deflated by the EoD1/wolf bomb shot... Their activity and presence is like night and day, D1 vs. now. And yeah I know he said he had a migraine, that's totally legit and not something I"m pushing on at all. Just... overall, holistic I mean I have the thought, it's there, I'm not gonna not mention it. They were *really* pushing for me at EoD1. Like the most vocal by far. And they've kind of walked that back toDay in a way that feels to me like they're kind of reading the tea leaves and not like, a genuine flip for reasons that are transparent and I can actually follow. Fuck you know despite all of that my gut says town. Idk what to tell you. I think I always need to kill this slot in my PoE but my heart says it's flipping v. It is what it is.

Cape - I'm still kind of processing that post he randomly quoted of mine from a hundred years ago. I would... definitely like to see the thought process behind that. Moving on to the bigger picture - I just don't think he really fits on a lot of teams. I guess he could be with HK or something? He's probably not with monte, I don't really think he's with dobby. I guess more meaningfully he doesn't really fit on a ladd/monsr/cape/x team like in general. I think it's gonna be hard to not PoE this slot but we really should clear it if we can, because if cape's v that's like always always a misyeet wolves need. I can't like, do that, not now, but I do want to try to get there if it's possible.

Dobby - I think dobby's kind of in his own world. It is a really fine line between "i'm talking about the things I want to talk about because I really believe in them and don't want to get dragged into stuff I don't care about" and "I'm a wolf and I need to keep the conversation and style of play in my comfort zone." Idk. I think he's got some decent associative. I think it's a good look that he's seemingly gotten more active after the redflips. I think the mech stuff and confusion about dolby dying and a lot of kind of wonky posts feel like a wolf would be a bit more careful in that kind of thing, in a self-awareness way. I think gun to my head villager. But this is definitely my most "man who the fuck knows" read.

So yeah.

There you go Sunbae. My yolo fuck it guess for the win is katz/monte. Doesn't really, like... feel right. But if you want me to take a swing, there it is. In terms of likely to actually flip wolf, I think something like -

Monte >> Katze >>>> HK = ender > cape > dobby >>> rask

Vote: Montmorency

That's about the most detailed I can be while doing this at work, but I'm around to chat for another ~hour or so probably.

[Cape90]

No, here's what I'm trying to say:

sunbae said if we chop town he's contemplating giving you the vest to blow someone up. It's pretty clear to me that I'm the person you'd most want to explode, which is fine I get it.
But if that's the plan then chop me today as the "townie" that dies to give you the vest so that you have to blow someone else up.

Basically it's like this:

I know I'm POE and I know I'm likely not posting out of it. That's fine. Instead of continually saying "we really ought to look into HK" resolve me today. Then give you the vest tonight. Make a good decision.

We're currently very far ahead and the mafia have no extra KP after Ladd was chopped. We have time to make mistakes/clear POE via killing them.

It's like MtG, as long as at the end of the day we're +2 on the wolves it doesn't matter how many townies are actually alive, we're still winning this game. Town bodies dying are irrelevant to actually winning the game. We know who the PR are, they're the designated NKs yeah?

That leaves us in the POE to either resolve ourselves or get resolved. It's not "oh woe is me" it's an antiseptic way of reducing possibilities and guiding us towards a mathematical lock on winning the game.

I guess it doesn't matter if I'm the chop today if you promise to blow me up tomorrow

im honestly in the boat with this post, and I would actually be concerned if this were actually wolf

just saying

[Montmorency]

My condolences to readers of Page 54.

Very important consideration: Mafia will usually bus today because the game typically ends D6, and Sunbae, Zack, etc. have to be NKed.

Bottom line here: At least one of Neb/NC/cape HAS to be maf.

Zack, in your own words explain to me how essoa and hally went so deep in Mass Effect.

I volunteer to be vested. This will never backfire on the vesting faction (compared to alternatives).

(I get the sense people read my posts with worse comprehension despite their low quantity.)

[Zack]

sunbae, can you explain what your thoughts on the cuth/monstr thing were even if you threw them away?

i felt better about this game when I went to sleep

ladd
newcomb
katze

HK
Cuth

cape
Sunbae
Benneh
Zack

i like this more probably tho i kinda feel the #d1alliancetier has a wolf

i don't really like sleep posts anymore, he kinda feels like a tryhard wolf who found an easy villager to bury and look villagery with

i'll be back for a pop in before EoD

#VC

monty isn't on this list now, after I pushed him and ladd shaded me for it, but I don't think monty even posted?

wanted to have his cake (monty not dying) and eat it too (not having him as a townread if he did die)?

:square:

[Cape90]

Newcomb, like

why wouldn't I look at posts from 100 years ago

also just to add to that

I do that all the time :p

[Montmorency]

Vote: NC

[Cape90]

the case on Dobby

the way HK has interacted with me

some of the comments HK makes

I really don't know how HK can be looked at as wolf here

[Montmorency]

Is Zack even reading my posts? Weirdass tunnel relying on townspew of me.

[Newcomb]

Newcomb, like

why wouldn't I look at posts from 100 years ago

also just to add to that

I do that all the time :p

Okay, but why would you bring it up and answer it as if the current gamestate was what it was referencing?

Like okay if you don't agree katze wasn't invested in the game *at the time I made that post* then that's maybe something you want to talk about or w/e but like. You're bringing it up as if it applies now and I'm confused as to why.

[Zack]

I vibe with that a lot, newcomb. Was working up to a monty vote myself, but I have to go in a few minutes and won't be able to return before EOD, and since you and I seem to be the only ones on this train I was contemplating if I should try and throw down a vote on a wagon more likely to gain traction.

but fuck it

Vote: Monty

glgl

dont nk sunbae he sux :curtain:

[Dobby]

I think Dobby has ticked all the towny dobby things I look for - including having his own main wolf read, being somewhat against the grain, and making some reads based on feels/vibes like the monstrtown and me whishywashy villa/wolf mixed with more normal progression/contradiction ones.


I kind of want to <drop the shield> on Dobby for day 1 just due to the fact that I think they've been forced to be on the defensive a lot early in recent games and it's caused both struggles in getting rolling and lack of enjoyment from being in that position all the time. I also think Dobby is the type of player that can be a big boon if we let him get settled down some.


I think if Dobby is a wolf the nuance on their read on me specifically just kinda blew me away. Like, post game I'd say "damn dobby, you got me good". I also think their stuff on HK is pretty reasonable and is something that kinda came up on their own in a way I feel good about. People weren't really pressing HK much at that point. Maybe a small thing here or there.


Dobby: Liked his initial call out of Ladd for having too many reads too early. Thought their hesitancy on trying to figure out my alignment was natural and nuanced using a lot of our history in a way that made me think they were actually trying to figure it out. I thought Dobby just disagreeing with Newcomb and saying Sleep/Cape could be w/w was entirely against threadflow/consensus in a villagery way and then immediately arguing with Katze in 682 also came off towny to me in a way where I thought Dobby was reading posts, thinking about why they are being posted, and trying to reach conclusions from it rather than having a nefarious intent to spin posts for personal gain. The Hollowkat push was also against general thread consensus at the time. I have small concerns ? two dead wolves called villagers in the big reads list, the double posts about ?oh dolby was a wolf? like 5 hours apart making me think they might be fake, the fact that pretty much nobody else is villa reading Dobby ? but the concerns are very small and I think the overall body of work is still just villager Dobby trying to solve the game.

if you wont listen to me listen to sunBAE (im sure theree was a way longer post about me but searching for posts on this page is just impossible


also imagine if i did this as wolf, the AUDACITY

[Zack]

Is Zack even reading my posts? Weirdass tunnel relying on townspew of me.

this is a horrible post

[hollowkatt]

I really don't see the benefit of making a comment like this and withholding information in this manner
I think there's a valid argument to be made about not wanting to completely out what "best strategy" might be here b/c outing that would allow wolves to attempt to play around it. But I wanted to signal to the PRs that I have been thinking about how this could play out in a town advantageous way

[Zack]

Okay, but why would you bring it up and answer it as if the current gamestate was what it was referencing?

Like okay if you don't agree katze wasn't invested in the game *at the time I made that post* then that's maybe something you want to talk about or w/e but like. You're bringing it up as if it applies now and I'm confused as to why.

is this something that is wolfy or something that is frustrating/bad?

I get why it bothers you (I'm sure it would me too if it had been directed at me) but it seems like kind of a weird thing for a wolf to do imo

[Montmorency]

I think there's a valid argument to be made about not wanting to completely out what "best strategy" might be here b/c outing that would allow wolves to attempt to play around it. But I wanted to signal to the PRs that I have been thinking about how this could play out in a town advantageous way

Someone gets it.

[Raskolnikov]

vote: Montmo

[Dobby]

I think Dobby has ticked all the towny dobby things I look for - including having his own main wolf read, being somewhat against the grain, and making some reads based on feels/vibes like the monstrtown and me whishywashy villa/wolf mixed with more normal progression/contradiction ones.


I kind of want to <drop the shield> on Dobby for day 1 just due to the fact that I think they've been forced to be on the defensive a lot early in recent games and it's caused both struggles in getting rolling and lack of enjoyment from being in that position all the time. I also think Dobby is the type of player that can be a big boon if we let him get settled down some.


I think if Dobby is a wolf the nuance on their read on me specifically just kinda blew me away. Like, post game I'd say "damn dobby, you got me good". I also think their stuff on HK is pretty reasonable and is something that kinda came up on their own in a way I feel good about. People weren't really pressing HK much at that point. Maybe a small thing here or there.


Dobby: Liked his initial call out of Ladd for having too many reads too early. Thought their hesitancy on trying to figure out my alignment was natural and nuanced using a lot of our history in a way that made me think they were actually trying to figure it out. I thought Dobby just disagreeing with Newcomb and saying Sleep/Cape could be w/w was entirely against threadflow/consensus in a villagery way and then immediately arguing with Katze in 682 also came off towny to me in a way where I thought Dobby was reading posts, thinking about why they are being posted, and trying to reach conclusions from it rather than having a nefarious intent to spin posts for personal gain. The Hollowkat push was also against general thread consensus at the time. I have small concerns ? two dead wolves called villagers in the big reads list, the double posts about ?oh dolby was a wolf? like 5 hours apart making me think they might be fake, the fact that pretty much nobody else is villa reading Dobby ? but the concerns are very small and I think the overall body of work is still just villager Dobby trying to solve the game.


My condolences to readers of Page 54.

Very important consideration: Mafia will usually bus today because the game typically ends D6, and Sunbae, Zack, etc. have to be NKed.

Bottom line here: At least one of Neb/NC/cape HAS to be maf.

Zack, in your own words explain to me how essoa and hally went so deep in Mass Effect.

I volunteer to be vested. This will never backfire on the vesting faction (compared to alternatives).

(I get the sense people read my posts with worse comprehension despite their low quantity.)

aorry im dumb and tired (im gonna keep saying im tired til i fall slep) but why does one of those HHAVE to be maf? are they on a specific wagon now oer

[Dobby]

I think Dobby has ticked all the towny dobby things I look for - including having his own main wolf read, being somewhat against the grain, and making some reads based on feels/vibes like the monstrtown and me whishywashy villa/wolf mixed with more normal progression/contradiction ones.


I kind of want to <drop the shield> on Dobby for day 1 just due to the fact that I think they've been forced to be on the defensive a lot early in recent games and it's caused both struggles in getting rolling and lack of enjoyment from being in that position all the time. I also think Dobby is the type of player that can be a big boon if we let him get settled down some.


I think if Dobby is a wolf the nuance on their read on me specifically just kinda blew me away. Like, post game I'd say "damn dobby, you got me good". I also think their stuff on HK is pretty reasonable and is something that kinda came up on their own in a way I feel good about. People weren't really pressing HK much at that point. Maybe a small thing here or there.


Dobby: Liked his initial call out of Ladd for having too many reads too early. Thought their hesitancy on trying to figure out my alignment was natural and nuanced using a lot of our history in a way that made me think they were actually trying to figure it out. I thought Dobby just disagreeing with Newcomb and saying Sleep/Cape could be w/w was entirely against threadflow/consensus in a villagery way and then immediately arguing with Katze in 682 also came off towny to me in a way where I thought Dobby was reading posts, thinking about why they are being posted, and trying to reach conclusions from it rather than having a nefarious intent to spin posts for personal gain. The Hollowkat push was also against general thread consensus at the time. I have small concerns ? two dead wolves called villagers in the big reads list, the double posts about ?oh dolby was a wolf? like 5 hours apart making me think they might be fake, the fact that pretty much nobody else is villa reading Dobby ? but the concerns are very small and I think the overall body of work is still just villager Dobby trying to solve the game.

how do i clear multiqutoe

[Sleep]

Cape reminded me

Can we just go back to this and smart ppl tell me if this could be a perspective slip or whatever the correct word is

I don't think he was townreading me at this point? Aaaaa. This game

it does seem to make the assumption you are town who will explode on him, yeah

idk that its damning but its odd

[Raskolnikov]

don't, it's fun

[nebjiamn]

zack, if monty flips v how does your world view change? or do we just keep pewpewing IYO down the list

[nebjiamn]

or up the list, as it were

[Zack]

zack, if monty flips v how does your world view change? or do we just keep pewpewing IYO down the list

i think wolves are probably in {monty, ender, katze, dobby} in no particular order

if there's 1 (or 2 lol) outside of that, glgl not my problem :laugh4: