View Full Version : Small Mafia Game Sorceror 17er Game Thread
Pages :
1
2
3
[
4]
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 20:37
dobby's iso pretty pimply for me, btw
ig its because the idea that my push is wolf-motivated suggests that you find it to be in some way disagreeable which implies that i am pushing someone u believe to be a villager, where if there was some gray area i would expect u to maybe try to figure out my perspective more to see if i was a villager who was just misfiring on something rather than declaring me a wolf
i think your push on cape is wolfy cause 1) you are pushing him on stuff that you can easily point out as wolfy but in most cases is nai (e.g. the hedginess) , 2) you don't really seem to give him a fair shake after his asnwer and instead just doublin down and/or jumping at ~every post he makes to see the wolfy side of it instead of trying to give the benefit of the doubt and 3) you remind me of how I wolf which isnt exactly a fair read but c'est la vie
i think cape is slightly >rand v cause he just seemed to be doing his own thing at sod, i liked his posthoumuos explanation of his sod play being that he wanted to be a cannon ball (iirc thats the words he used) and it aligns with how he played it. His caring about how right/wrong he is also seems kinda villagery
hope that helps clarify where i am at
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 20:39
who else beyond zack and dobby is sus on hk?
I'm surprisingly okay with this.
katze you are in charge
hollowkatt
04-22-2022, 20:40
I like Rask and I don't have strong feelings either way on Monstr/HK and Rask has zero posted, and thought "don't have a good read on" would equate to null for people. Felt like I didn't have to add Dobby/Ender/Capo, because it's not hard to fill in the blanks.
weird...
maybe it was that I didn't think your memes were funny.
Your first 10 or so posts are the ones I felt were "off", and that off-ness I read as "difficulty trying to get into the game"
After that you do improve so meh
I read Ender's early posts as excited/jovial, so did you read them differently? That doesn't seem like something you'd characterize as "difficulty trying to get into the game", unless you just think it was fake? or something else?
This is why I found HK's read weird. Because it certainly felt like I was fooling around and having fun to me.
That's why I asked, since I came to a completely different conclusion reading your posts. So it just seemed odd or a mischaracterization to case you, but that also seemed odd to do.
I read Ender's early posts as excited/jovial, so did you read them differently? That doesn't seem like something you'd characterize as "difficulty trying to get into the game", unless you just think it was fake? or something else?
yeah to me they read as more forced content than anything else. I'm not sure if that's just me being weird or ender being weird. My discussions with ender though recently have given me more of a good feeling about him than his earlier posting did so maybe call him null/lean town instead of 'lets kill'
That's not the vibes I got from those posts, but I don't know ender very well either, so I probably wouldn't notice. #72 is the only thing that Ender's posted that seemed particularly bad to me.
I would have thought at least these exchanges would have given csargo something to go on dependent on his ender read and how I was engaging with him here.
I also think with csargo parking his vote on me here:
this game is literally a who's who of mafia, plus me. So that's cool
:stop:
Vote:hollowkatt
that he would have at least thought about the person he's voting for, even if his vote at the time was RVS/shitposting.
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 20:40
i think your push on cape is wolfy cause 1) you are pushing him on stuff that you can easily point out as wolfy but in most cases is nai (e.g. the hedginess) , 2) you don't really seem to give him a fair shake after his asnwer and instead just doublin down and/or jumping at ~every post he makes to see the wolfy side of it instead of trying to give the benefit of the doubt and 3) you remind me of how I wolf which isnt exactly a fair read but c'est la vie
i think cape is slightly >rand v cause he just seemed to be doing his own thing at sod, i liked his posthoumuos explanation of his sod play being that he wanted to be a cannon ball (iirc thats the words he used) and it aligns with how he played it. His caring about how right/wrong he is also seems kinda villagery
hope that helps clarify where i am at
:bow:
hollowkatt
04-22-2022, 20:41
vote: csargo
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 20:42
vote: dobby
rask seems ~fine to me, let's paranoia misyeet him on d4 tho ~:wave:
who else beyond zack and dobby is sus on hk?
just to clarify, i'm not really
I briefly hopped on after seeing dobby's vote as a "maybe I was giving HK too much credit earlier" but after thinking about it more for a few minutes after, it was probably simple read decay (as i think ladd alluded to)
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 20:43
vote: csargo
:charge:
katze you are in charge
monkaS
I disagree that newcomb has done very little
I've played with Csargo, Monty, and Winston countless times. Csargo and Monty have done close to nothing, and while that's maybe not too out of character for Csargo on d1 he can do more, and Monty/Winston are almost always far more active and engaged than this
in retrospect this was uncharitable to csargo, i think this is ~okay from him for d1 at least
no idea what's up with monty
whatchu you wanna do zack?
i am about to be out for the day probably
-visor
hollowkatt
04-22-2022, 20:46
Sup friendos.
late to the party but glad to be here tbh.
I luff you
i dont really feel that great about ender being a wolf either quite frankly, i just have no better ideas besides a shruglunch and see you all tomorrow
whatchu you wanna do zack?
i am about to be out for the day probably
-visor
i dont really feel that great about ender being a wolf either quite frankly, i just have no better ideas besides a shruglunch and see you all tomorrow
i dont really feel that great about ender being a wolf either quite frankly, i just have no better ideas besides a shruglunch and see you all tomorrow
:lost:
Zack/ladd you guys both pretty sanguine on katze?
I'm still thinking his treatment of me feels p slimey / performative but that's been read decay-ing overnight.
dobby's iso pretty pimply for me, btw
go on?
Zack/ladd you guys both pretty sanguine on katze?
I'm still thinking his treatment of me feels p slimey / performative but that's been read decay-ing overnight.
she seems fine to me, maybe lightly v
but i also dunno how to read her really
:7detective:
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 20:51
okay, things are snarling up
go back to first principles
everyone thinks zack is town + therefore zack is definitely scum
vote: zack
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 20:53
go on?
there was the post dobby sent me to find, which was underwhelming
and that was the best bit
(sorry dobs, got to say it as i see it)
Zack/ladd you guys both pretty sanguine on katze?
ya, the villa read on him is actually the one I felt less doubt on overall
id be surprised if they wolfing
hollowkatt
04-22-2022, 20:54
I'm not going to quote them all b/c I hate building multiquotes but I enjoy reading all of the Zack posts in the 560s, especially this one: 563 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828843&viewfull=1#post2053828843). It's kinda spicy, has a nice flavor to it, and what he's pointed out there seems to make a certain amount of sense to me. That could be residual ender suspicion on my part, I don't really have feelings about Ladd but probably I should have some.
Seemed like the kind of read I get returned to the kitchen for the chef to review because it's so watery weak that it's basically not there.
But I appreciated the sentiment.
this was like the kind of post manti makes when he's a wolf
:afro:
there was the post dobby sent me to find, which was underwhelming
and that was the best bit
(sorry dobs, got to say it as i see it)
Its okay you cant be right always because my ISO is fantastic considering what energy and time i could spend on this game, and it was still way more than planned :)
Iim gonna look through what i have and compile thoughts now that im back home
okay, things are snarling up
go back to first principles
everyone thinks zack is town + therefore zack is definitely scum
vote: zack
:creep:
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 20:56
:creep:
keep walkin'
hollowkatt
04-22-2022, 20:57
see, this is the kind of sequence I like
it shows that he was thinking about the game and people's alignments behind the scenes, and was able to quickly prove it with receipts. Didn't make some grandiose post(s) in the thread announcing his switch on Cuth, but gave a solid earthy explanation of what changed his read when asked.
that said if cuth is a wolf it maybe looks bad for cape
like I said earlier, I could be wrong on Cape but he keeps posting thiings that I find villagy and I'm not seeing the issue with his posts
:creep:
I think there are three options here yeah?
1. Wolf?Cape is trying to push thread opinion away from wolf?Cuth
2. Wolf?Cape is trying to pocket town?Cuth
3. Town?Cape is making what he feels like is a legit read on possible town?Cuth.
Of those three option 1 feels least likely to me as I don't really perceive cuth is in imminent danger of going over, and if he did Cape likely doesn't want to be tied to that chop with a town read like that.
Option 2 feels like it's got some potential but I don't have a strong enough opinion on Cape to make that call.
Option 3 feels like it's the most likely option of the three in a vacuum...
weird...
I would have thought at least these exchanges would have given csargo something to go on dependent on his ender read and how I was engaging with him here.
I also think with csargo parking his vote on me here:
that he would have at least thought about the person he's voting for, even if his vote at the time was RVS/shitposting.
I'm not sure what you're getting at. If you're saying my read on you should be dependent on my read of ender or vice versa, I'm not going to make any assumptions based on perceived alignments in any game really, let alone one with a strong playerlist.
I still don't really buy your reasoning on ender, because if doesn't fit with how I viewed ender at that point in the game. I didn't see anything that seemed like it was forced from ender at the beginning of the game.
I voted you to start the game, because I'm pretty sure you've opened like that in another game, so it just seemed like a canned opening to me ergo kinda weird.
hollowkatt
04-22-2022, 20:59
I'm not sure what you're getting at. If you're saying my read on you should be dependent on my read of ender or vice versa, I'm not going to make any assumptions based on perceived alignments in any game really, let alone one with a strong playerlist.
I still don't really buy your reasoning on ender, because if doesn't fit with how I viewed ender at that point in the game. I didn't see anything that seemed like it was forced from ender at the beginning of the game.
I voted you to start the game, because I'm pretty sure you've opened like that in another game, so it just seemed like a canned opening to me ergo kinda weird.
Which is feeding into the point I was trying to make: Why am I in your "I dunno" bucket when we had this exchange and you expressed quite a bit of concern over how I had arrived at the conclusions that I did and made the read that I did. So to be in your "meh no idea" bucket after this exchange is what I'm suspicious of.
You having me in your "could be a wolf here" bucket makes more sense than any other read you could have, so I'm trying to understand how I'm in the "don't have a read" bucket.
Amateur tip:
Interactions with people are a solid way to build reads.
Is this a reference to something I don't get?
i think your push on cape is wolfy cause 1) you are pushing him on stuff that you can easily point out as wolfy but in most cases is nai (e.g. the hedginess) , 2) you don't really seem to give him a fair shake after his asnwer and instead just doublin down and/or jumping at ~every post he makes to see the wolfy side of it instead of trying to give the benefit of the doubt and 3) you remind me of how I wolf which isnt exactly a fair read but c'est la vie
i think cape is slightly >rand v cause he just seemed to be doing his own thing at sod, i liked his posthoumuos explanation of his sod play being that he wanted to be a cannon ball (iirc thats the words he used) and it aligns with how he played it. His caring about how right/wrong he is also seems kinda villagery
hope that helps clarify where i am at
wrt point 1, i understand that stuff like that can be nai but the way it was presented pinged me, theres no way around it for me really
im going to focus on point 2 though because its the one i can speak the most on:
i didnt like #282 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828546&viewfull=1#post2053828546) because for the most part it was very sarcastic/dismissive and didnt really address my issues in a meaningful way. i realize for a lot of this like the semantics based reads, he cant really answer that stuff and thats understandable but but tonally it felt really incredibly off, and the stuff where he actually had reasoning like his reads on newcomb/katze it was very underwhelming.
i, again, did not hammer this home at the time precisely because i didnt think continued arguing around these points was going to be helpful
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 21:01
dobby, newcomb, benneh, katze
there's your scumteam
zack is the sk
Which is feeding into the point I was trying to make: Why am I in your "I dunno" bucket when we had this exchange and you expressed quite a bit of concern over how I had arrived at the conclusions that I did and made the read that I did. So to be in your "meh no idea" bucket after this exchange is what I'm suspicious of.
You having me in your "could be a wolf here" bucket makes more sense than any other read you could have, so I'm trying to understand how I'm in the "don't have a read" bucket.
It's mostly because I agree with ladd, in that some of your posts are townie in between those posts or don't really make sense coming from a wolf perspective.
dobby, newcomb, benneh, katze
there's your scumteam
zack is the sk
:bow:
Its okay you cant be right always because my ISO is fantastic considering what energy and time i could spend on this game, and it was still way more than planned :)
Iim gonna look through what i have and compile thoughts now that im back home
Qctually I'm gonna get back to this Winston, what exactly is pimply/not impressive enough for you to place a vote on me? Am I your top wolf? Please give examples.
I'm ge uinely happy with what I have done and the contribution I've had here, mainly the discussions with kat and sleep probably have been useful. Planting my own reads in a catchup sequence is only going to be mildly useful at best but I've been interacting with whoever has responded or addressed me so placing a vote here is like
I'm not upset or anything about it I just genuinely don't understand why you place your vote here and point out that the iso is had when I for once am... kinda happy with what I've done?
wrt point 1, i understand that stuff like that can be nai but the way it was presented pinged me, theres no way around it for me really
im going to focus on point 2 though because its the one i can speak the most on:
i didnt like #282 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828546&viewfull=1#post2053828546) because for the most part it was very sarcastic/dismissive and didnt really address my issues in a meaningful way. i realize for a lot of this like the semantics based reads, he cant really answer that stuff and thats understandable but but tonally it felt really incredibly off, and the stuff where he actually had reasoning like his reads on newcomb/katze it was very underwhelming.
i, again, did not hammer this home at the time precisely because i didnt think continued arguing around these points was going to be helpful
where dismissive?
the sarcasm/snark is part of why i liked his answer. why do you think thats wolfy?
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 21:03
:bow:
~:handball:
(and thanks for the answer)
I voted you to start the game, because I'm pretty sure you've opened like that in another game, so it just seemed like a canned opening to me ergo kinda weird.
this is villagery i think
Like, I think my past wolf/3p games prove qt least to some extent that i know exactly how to play to look super towny, but I'm choosing to play this my way and literally everything I've written (except for memes so I don't get called out on it qnd maybe an addendum of "almost") has felt useful for the game in one way or the other, and not just "this person is why here's a big case". Or like some that just post a list of five names as their first post. I'm going to make sure I have enough when I out my reads, in many cases because I am super interested in dynamics, intent and reactions and stuff like that, rather than actual content of posts to form opinions, and that's part of why I'm asking about your vote here because "iso is bad" is not very useful
i'll try to be back before eod somehow
if not,
:bow:
Like, I think my past wolf/3p games prove qt least to some extent that i know exactly how to play to look super towny, but I'm choosing to play this my way and literally everything I've written (except for memes so I don't get called out on it qnd maybe an addendum of "almost") has felt useful for the game in one way or the other, and not just "this person is why here's a big case". Or like some that just post a list of five names as their first post. I'm going to make sure I have enough when I out my reads, in many cases because I am super interested in dynamics, intent and reactions and stuff like that, rather than actual content of posts to form opinions, and that's part of why I'm asking about your vote here because "iso is bad" is not very useful
*qnd want to see how certain things play out before I write about the players involved
Also it says why instead of wolf call it a shroop i dare ypu
katze you are in charge
wtf
no
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 21:15
Qctually I'm gonna get back to this Winston, what exactly is pimply/not impressive enough for you to place a vote on me? Am I your top wolf? Please give examples.
I'm ge uinely happy with what I have done and the contribution I've had here, mainly the discussions with kat and sleep probably have been useful. Planting my own reads in a catchup sequence is only going to be mildly useful at best but I've been interacting with whoever has responded or addressed me so placing a vote here is like
I'm not upset or anything about it I just genuinely don't understand why you place your vote here and point out that the iso is had when I for once am... kinda happy with what I've done?
firstly, it's the hk vote
secondly, it's the reasoning behind the hk vote
thirdly, it's the timing of the hk vote
fourthly, it's that you made me go look for the reasoning behind the hk vote
fifthly, it's that when i looked for the reasoning behind the hk vote, i found the rest of your iso to lack anything that feels townie to me
for all of that, you've posted far more worthwhile content that i have
so it's no criticism
just you look scummy to me
dobby, newcomb, benneh, katze
there's your scumteam
zack is the sk
youcaughtus.gif
*qnd want to see how certain things play out before I write about the players involved
Also it says why instead of wolf call it a shroop i dare ypu
nice shroop
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 21:17
youcaughtus.gif
treat this as a learning experience
vote:sleep
i'll follow my heart
treat this as a learning experience
if only you went to champs
firstly, it's the hk vote
secondly, it's the reasoning behind the hk vote
thirdly, it's the timing of the hk vote
fourthly, it's that you made me go look for the reasoning behind the hk vote
fifthly, it's that when i looked for the reasoning behind the hk vote, i found the rest of your iso to lack anything that feels townie to me
for all of that, you've posted far more worthwhile content that i have
so it's no criticism
just you look scummy to me
Okay lol
The ti.ing of the hk vote was because I didn't know when I'd be back and even when I say I'm going to leave the thread I switch to phone because I have an unhealthy relationship to mafia. The vote was placed because I noticed people were placing votes and that I hadn't disclosed where my mind was at.
The rest is. Okay, not sure why that would warrant a vote but I respect it gl
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 21:21
I have an unhealthy relationship to mafia
is there any other kind?
:shame:
vote:sleep
i'll follow my heart
I can live with that I think
Vote: sleep
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 21:24
if only you went to champs
i'm too street for champs
where dismissive?
the sarcasm/snark is part of why i liked his answer. why do you think thats wolfy?
i mean stuff like "nice assumption nerd" "sue me" "Good job on your nothing read on me" "Gotta love semantics reads, those always work out". like basically this stuff saying "your read is dumb" where it felt more like mocking me rather than answering me. it just felt more like how i inuitively expect a wolf to respond to pressure. it felt, uh, weird that basically just pooh pooh'ed my case on him but then turned around and towncored me, didnt feel authentic. it seemed less like the response of someone who believes they are being tunneled by town with a wrong read and more like the response of someone who knows im town and thinks my reasons are bad and can shut me down that way
and, like i said, i fully accept the possibility i might be tunneled there
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 21:25
I can live with that I think
Vote: sleep
really?
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 21:27
i mean stuff like "nice assumption nerd" "sue me" "Good job on your nothing read on me" "Gotta love semantics reads, those always work out". like basically this stuff saying "your read is dumb" where it felt more like mocking me rather than answering me. it just felt more like how i inuitively expect a wolf to respond to pressure. it felt, uh, weird that basically just pooh pooh'ed my case on him but then turned around and towncored me, didnt feel authentic. it seemed less like the response of someone who believes they are being tunneled by town with a wrong read and more like the response of someone who knows im town and thinks my reasons are bad and can shut me down that way
and, like i said, i fully accept the possibility i might be tunneled there
although...
Newcomb:
do you believe that the other people who suspect you are doing so in a more authentic way than i have?
this question feels awkward but any other way i word it feels loaded
in retrospect this was uncharitable to csargo, i think this is ~okay from him for d1 at least
no idea what's up with monty
I don't think it's uncharitable tbh, my reads are mostly just feelings from lightly reading the thread and my posts are just pointing out stuff I find kinda wolfy/odd.
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 21:31
I don't think it's uncharitable tbh, my reads are mostly just feelings from lightly reading the thread and my posts are just pointing out stuff I find kinda wolfy/odd.
did you vote for me?
or was that cuth?
Winston:
is your suspicion on zack real?
Most of the people putting me in their wolfreads are villagers
That being said I still think hollowkat's post about me "saying spicy things for the sake of it" isn't a real thought
At this point though I think over half the game has called me a wolf and if there's not a wolf in there I would be literally floored lmao
just wanted to say Monstrdude is likely a member of the village
Well okay I have more to say but not before I read more :D
did you vote for me?
or was that cuth?
I didn't vote for you, I don't have strong feeling either way about you. :bow:
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 21:36
Winston:
is your suspicion on zack real?
what do you think?
(genuinely, it's interesting to me to know before i tell)
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 21:37
I don't have strong feeling either way about you. :bow:
my heart is breaking ~:mecry:
what do you think?
(genuinely, it's interesting to me to know before i tell)
leaning no but asking for a reason
Newcomb:
do you believe that the other people who suspect you are doing so in a more authentic way than i have?
this question feels awkward but any other way i word it feels loaded
Sleep's case on me was about as neutral as I've ever felt about someone suspecting me.
AFAICT no one else is really shading me beyond a few comments here and there that haven't really pinged me.
my heart is breaking ~:mecry:
:love:
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 21:40
leaning no but asking for a reason
i'm struggling to think of townie reasons
Sleep's case on me was about as neutral as I've ever felt about someone suspecting me.
AFAICT no one else is really shading me beyond a few comments here and there that haven't really pinged me.
well, benneh is voting you apparently
Tally as of #570 (editing in)
1 Newcomb (Nebjiamn)
and so is ender
[snip]
[..]
Vote: Newcomb
alongside a case on his end
i think benneh wrote a post detailing concerns on you too?
Sleep's case on me was about as neutral as I've ever felt about someone suspecting me.
AFAICT no one else is really shading me beyond a few comments here and there that haven't really pinged me.
Actually wait that's not true, HK shaded me for something and I thought it was kind of in a villagy way, let me find it.
Most of the people putting me in their wolfreads are villagers
That being said I still think hollowkat's post about me "saying spicy things for the sake of it" isn't a real thought
At this point though I think over half the game has called me a wolf and if there's not a wolf in there I would be literally floored lmao
Go to the forum page and click on the number of posts in this thread. A popup window with ISO links should appear.
25406
wait that is so much easier from what I have been doing.
My gut tells me Rask is town, but I don't actually know yet
i'm struggling to think of townie reasons
well, yeah, you already nailed my scumteam!
so do you have an answer? :P
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 21:44
zack is zack is zack
so townie he's scummy, so scummy he's null, so null he's townie
im rereading ender, i liked the early response to pressure from him, stuff like #94 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828342&viewfull=1#post2053828342) felt good to me, unbothered. fakeable but a small plus. his response to hollowkat sussing him i liked? just buy the "i don't believe you believe this" reaction he had, he has a lot of solvy posts that look like someone whos sorting through things, and stuff like #375 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828639&viewfull=1#post2053828639) where he agrees with me but presumably wont give me towncred because he thinks i might be a sneaky good wolf or something. the casing of newcomb also felt like not something he goes all-in on as a wolf d1 (altho he did say he likes to fool good players so maybe i should mentally adjust for that). but i think his reasoning has been decently okay. biggest concern i guess would be him townreading me might be pockety when i was standing up for hm earlir when i said i thought he was villagy. but thats a very slight concern.
I think katze is town, I think newcomb is leaning super hard into "newcombness" with these two posts
...
kind of like "this is a meta thing I have been known to do and nobody is doing the thing so I'm going to manufacture a situation where the thing happens and then use that to subvert the expectations" which is probably shit but I like thinking it.
What I like about this approach, and this is kind of weird, is that it's not something I think a wolf would think to fake? Like the idea that I as a wolf would be manufacturing a situation - like I somehow put my hand into Katze's mouth and used them like a puppet to suspect me in a way that I could then call out - like if you think about it it's kind of a ridiculous thought to have, and that's why it felt like a villager thing since a wolf would have to fake it and that would be pretty wild. Much more likely it's one of those random thoughts that pop into your head when you're genuinely trying to sort someone.
morning
skimmed a catchup, main impression is that raskol is like, a league above the last time i played with him (swag city, he was mafia) so he's probs a villager
skipped the newcomb wolfcase because i'm kinda leaning towards not killing him today even if i think he has high enough mafia equity, for #raisins
also now that the game ended i was hosting a sorc17 on MU and cape was p largely suspected in the earlygame for iffy reasons and imo was super villagery on the day he died, mbe he was townier cuz he had a vest buuuuuut it's part of why i also kinda dont wanna kill him today either
except my vote is apparently still on him
unvote: Cape90
ill figure out where it goes later
I feel like I am playing more towny this game though I am mega struggling at explaining stuff since my brain doesn't seem to want to work on anything but v i b e right now
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 21:45
zack knows how i feel about him
alrighty so it's a joke
i was asking cause your vote movements between zack+dobby/treatment of zack felt pretty fake to me but i wasn't sure if i was reading too much into a joke since at some point you two looked like friends
well, benneh is voting you apparently
and so is ender
alongside a case on his end
i think benneh wrote a post detailing concerns on you too?
lol maybe it was ender's case and not sleep's? It made like no impression on me, whoever it was.
benneh didn't really strike me as a serious vote
less verbose, less content about the game, and just sort of here but not doing anything. It's not like absolute 100% a woof, because any number of things could be happening. I just want to see if Monty shows up and does anything, and my vote there seems good at the present.
this seems a little overly detailed for someone who posted a total of like 3 times
I think we need to start talking about consolidating.
Who's actually likely to go over today?
1. zack
2. nebjiamn
3. cuthillius
4. Ladd
5. Winston Hughes
6. Raskolnikov
7. Newcomb
8. Csargo
9. EnderWiggin
10. Sunbae
11. Montmorency
12. roro__b
13. monstrbro
14. katze
15. Sleep
16. Cape90
17. hollowkatt
Zack no, bennah... probably not though I can't off the top of my head recall anyone strongly reading bennah one way or another.
Cuth, probably not, some strong voices townread.
Ladd... interesting but I don't realistically think that's ever happening D1 here.
Winston... could see this being a LHF compromise type thing I guess? Possible.
Rask, possible
Me, not happening
Csargo, maaaaybe but kind of a long shot IMO
Ender, maybe
Sunbae, probably not happening
Monte, sure
Dobby, jury's out, see how people react to the catchup. I tend to think not.
Monster, uhhhh yeah moving on
Katz, probably not happening
Sleep, would probably be the spiciest D1 lynch that's actually on the table.
Cape, not actually sure. Can't recall what thread sentiment is on this guy.
HK, outside shot maybe
That leaves us with what, Winston/Rask/Monte as the "taking the easy way out" type options, with Monte being like the pure shot in the dark. and the two C names, Ender, and outside shot of Sleep/HK as the more information heavy but harder kills?
Does that roughly match other people's takes on thread sentiment? Open question. Feels like it's about time to get the ball rolling though.
you know what
maybe I am wrong on Newcomb
i still have concerns on newc that maybe kind of align with katze's (part of why i v read katze highly here), but maybe they don't.
i don't want to harp on this too much, because i am extremely unlikely to be able to get newcomb lunched today and even if I could, i wouldn't, as several other of my village reads are saying he's a villager but i at least want my thoughts out in the open
i feel like newc's had a lot of floaty type of posts that could be either alignment but he's also had 2 IMO weak, stretchy type accusations/pokings that made me turn my head.
the first was his response to katze's wolf reading of him and OMGUSing, painting a world wherein katze's internalized a very niche attribute about newcomb's reputation and that katze decided to use that in order to convey a wolf read on him and get credit for it, only for newcomb to become fully aware of this ingrained notion and reverse it on katze in this moment doesn't strike me as very convincing as a thought from v!newcomb.
i realize this is simplifying the totality of newc's read/response but the other parts (katze appearing performative in the read/not conveying a great reason for it) are things that i do believe from newc's POV but i happen to just disagree with from my own about katze's motives and things that I think i vibe with katze on that i can't really convey myself about the rest of/previous newc posts.
the other one is newcomb's post toward csargo about the inclusion of rask. this, for me, is not as big of a thing as the katze stuff, and i realize this wasn't even a full blown (or even half blown?) wolf read of csrago, more clarification, but the levels to decipher that inclusion just gives me creepy vibes/coming from a nefarious pov.
having said all that, newcomb is newcomb and is probably just right on lots of stuff that i'm not even seeing or aware of while i sit around barking up a tree that bears no fruit
seems p serious to me bronana, although they don't want you to go over today it seems
its hard to believe that a wolf genuinely thoughts saying the red was a good idea
stop stealing my thoughts ladd :hide:
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 21:52
i was asking cause your vote movements between zack+dobby/treatment of zack felt pretty fake to me but i wasn't sure if i was reading too much into a joke since at some point you two looked like friends
sorry, i'm not following
what did you think i might be doing there?
i still have concerns on newc that maybe kind of align with katze's (part of why i v read katze highly here), but maybe they don't.
i don't want to harp on this too much, because i am extremely unlikely to be able to get newcomb lunched today and even if I could, i wouldn't, as several other of my village reads are saying he's a villager but i at least want my thoughts out in the open
i feel like newc's had a lot of floaty type of posts that could be either alignment but he's also had 2 IMO weak, stretchy type accusations/pokings that made me turn my head.
the first was his response to katze's wolf reading of him and OMGUSing, painting a world wherein katze's internalized a very niche attribute about newcomb's reputation and that katze decided to use that in order to convey a wolf read on him and get credit for it, only for newcomb to become fully aware of this ingrained notion and reverse it on katze in this moment doesn't strike me as very convincing as a thought from v!newcomb.
i realize this is simplifying the totality of newc's read/response but the other parts (katze appearing performative in the read/not conveying a great reason for it) are things that i do believe from newc's POV but i happen to just disagree with from my own about katze's motives and things that I think i vibe with katze on that i can't really convey myself about the rest of/previous newc posts.
the other one is newcomb's post toward csargo about the inclusion of rask. this, for me, is not as big of a thing as the katze stuff, and i realize this wasn't even a full blown (or even half blown?) wolf read of csrago, more clarification, but the levels to decipher that inclusion just gives me creepy vibes/coming from a nefarious pov.
having said all that, newcomb is newcomb and is probably just right on lots of stuff that i'm not even seeing or aware of while i sit around barking up a tree that bears no fruit
Oh yeah this post. I wouldn't call this like a lock v read or anything but I did come out of it thinking a light shade of v on bennah; basically I think it's like just the right amount of charitable towards me if he doesn't actually already know my alignment. Just feels natural I guess?
just some comments on p#181 - townies can be wolfy, in fact, they're usually more wolfy than wolves if they're sorta experienced imo :p And like, looking at the post, it's not.... trying to evaluate the alignment of cape. It's trying to make a case on why cape is wolfy. And that's. Not wolfy (kekw) per se, but it's definitely something that I want to point out to Sleep so that if they're ACTUALLY trying to solve, i'd like a post naming "good" things cape has done as well, because I'm sure you'll find some.
Just wanted to point out that Sleep's wall at that point contained literally every message I sent except for my meme thing at the beginning of the game. So basically over there they didn't find my content towny like at all.
sorry, i'm not following
what did you think i might be doing there?
first impression was throwing shit and seeing what sticks but ultimately i don't really know, i didn't like your suspicion on dobby either though so it's not a sequence of posts i see thriving amounts of village motivation in
see, this is the kind of sequence I like
it shows that he was thinking about the game and people's alignments behind the scenes, and was able to quickly prove it with receipts. Didn't make some grandiose post(s) in the thread announcing his switch on Cuth, but gave a solid earthy explanation of what changed his read when asked.
that said if cuth is a wolf it maybe looks bad for cape
like I said earlier, I could be wrong on Cape but he keeps posting thiings that I find villagy and I'm not seeing the issue with his posts
:creep:
zack i just realised
i i genuinely thought this was the post you quoted, the post looks almost identical to the one you linked so thats why the confusion tbh (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828818&viewfull=1#post2053828818)
this is about this post that i called out (i also thought it was rask's post kek) (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828845&viewfull=1#post2053828845)
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 21:58
players i won't chop today: hk, sunbae, bladescape
blade going from double pimp to double angel is something i can't immediately justify
just feels right
dobby's iso pretty pimply for me, btw
it has pimples?
Winston just explain this beyond finding it "pimply"
town reads: ben, hollowkatt, zack
sunbae, katze, dobby
ender, csargo, rask
winston hughes
null: montmorency
i had winston as null but recent posting is enough to push him a shade above everyone else. i had zack a tier lower based on earlier eval but every time he post it just looks villagy to me.
i wouldnt be shocked if theres a wolf in the more null/less active players but rn it feels kind of dart throw-y such that i dont really want to vote any of them for the d1 elim, if some of them remain null contentwise theyre good exploding vest targets
gun to my head monstr is a villager but i dont rly want to think about him presently
wolfy:
cuth, ladd, newcomb, cape
this is maybe going to be rant-ish, but, i think both ladd and newcomb are p. darn wolfy. i dont really care about reputation, i dont care that people like them, i dont think either has really looked like they care about solving the game, and are riding on the assumption they will get a free pass. i also think their treatment of each other looks very partner-y. i know this is day 1 and doing this kind of pre-flip associating often goes wrong but they seem to be reading each other as villagers off very little whilst not actually talking in a meaningful way and it doesnt feel like how villagers talk to one another.
i already went over newcomb a bit. w/r/t ladd: im a bit conflicted because it feels omgus-y. but i think all of his wolf reads this game have been p bad, not in the sense that they are wrong (because i dont know that), but that the reasonig hasnt been believable. i realize this is partly an ego thing because his current top suspect is me. but his reads on ender/sunbae were very reachy. i didnt say anything at the time because i think in the early game everyones wolf reads are a bit reachy. but it felt a bit like the way they developed didnt feel like an honest evaluation. i realize he backed down on the wolfread of sunbae but it was only after sunbae started giving him a little pushback, and it didnt feel like it developed in an authentic way, insisting on a derp being fake is stretchy. same with ender where it was, like, all tone/vibes in early game and then didnt really seem to update itself as ender contributed more. its like hes not really evaluating new data as it comes in. i dont get the sense ladd cares about solving the game.
(i realize i am basically lobbing grenades by saying some of this stuff which is not really cool to do anonymously so i might have to out)
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 22:00
ooh yeah
You (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828465&viewfull=1#post2053828465) are (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828469&viewfull=1#post2053828469) reading (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828621&viewfull=1#post2053828621) the same (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828634&viewfull=1#post2053828634) Winston as I am right (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828619&viewfull=1#post2053828619)?
i want to straight town read this
but i've been burned before
:sweatdrop:
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 22:01
it has pimples?
Winston just explain this beyond finding it "pimply"
firstly, it's the hk vote
secondly, it's the reasoning behind the hk vote
thirdly, it's the timing of the hk vote
fourthly, it's that you made me go look for the reasoning behind the hk vote
fifthly, it's that when i looked for the reasoning behind the hk vote, i found the rest of your iso to lack anything that feels townie to me
for all of that, you've posted far more worthwhile content that i have
so it's no criticism
just you look scummy to me
:music:
Montmorency
04-22-2022, 22:02
wall hype
John Cena
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 22:04
John Cena
:medievalcheers:
John Cena
thats how i feel about your iso:clown:
Montmorency
04-22-2022, 22:06
My first instinct upon seeing the first half is that Zack and Csargo are paired again and hastily voting me out of the Fear of my immense analytical prowess. Here's some thread revenge.
i have a townping on montmorency!
:bucktooth:
:huh:
Priming.
I started reading posts, had no idea what Mont was referencing, scrolled up and read the set up, and immediately cracked up laughing. Compulsive bomber maker is absolutely hilarious and I beg you to choose me. Just blasting someone in the face on day 2 and then going to dvc laughing with them for it is peak werewolf and I must have it
Enemy mine, but could be town.
if i had expected anything
i think it would have been pretty close to this
zack/ender lock w/w
sunbae going HARD on the villager rp as also a wolf love to see it
Put a pin in it.
:hide:
my vote was serious
newcomb light v
:hide:
Couch motif seems subliminal.
49 made me smile
Don't make me envious of Sunbae. Notice me while there's still time senpai, I'll do you proud.
i generally don't like arguing back and forth with someone on why i suspect them, it's pretty much a waste of time in my experience :book2:
Lore fragment unlocked: Don't debate your suspects, case them to people you want to clear.
"ah yes fellow vanilla town, i too am vanilla town"
:no:
more like you're a mafia stalker! :smash:
Did you think I'm a goon?
this alt is having a fun time
Is Sleep really GH? (Spewed)
Thats me creeping my way to dvc after I blow up someone on day 2
I would love this tbh
You ain't ready.
I really really really really don't want to tryhsrd this game, I really want to see if I can play mafia again wtihhout spending every waking hour on the game
Church (hella).
But
a superstructure at the stern of a vessel.
What the fu k
"Fire on the poopdeck."
this is guaranteed to bite me in the ass but katze has too many votes too quickly and therefore is town.
Ender otoh is not.
vote: ender
Not enough to be probative D1 - early D1 at that.
the reads on him were hedged in a jokey sort of way (that i think is typical of early game and not really alignment indicative) but i assume the sentimen behind them is at least somewhat real or they wouldn't express it
well i can go into all the problems i have with the stuff he posted but i don't want to explain it just yet
That's a good point.
What villager RP? I laughed at the set up, talked about being nervous about champs, and then made an emote post. That is as NAI posting as it gets.
What if it's town-leaning and you denying that makes it >rand maf?
I'm struggling to parse Cape simultaneously making a wall post about avatar reads and throwing suspicion on people for jokey posts on the first page and a half. Could be wolfy fake suspicion that doesn't flow well or could just be a villager making a shift in seriousness quickly. Maybe someone else has a better take on it.
Too much hedging. Death is on the line.
Also, kind of squinting at Cape's talking about Mont as a "surprised nobody is talking about this cause usually people wolfread it" into saying they don't think that type of read works out very much.
That's a good point.
I don't really have any interesting observations so far and I'm not going to try and force them
That's a good point.
this seems like a rather harsh interpretation given the stage of the game these posts were made in
Correct.
That's what I thought of it initially, probably reading too much into it tbh.
That reassures us.
Spicy take
I don't think anyone's been villagy
I almost agree with you.
im going to slice this first post backwards, for no other reason than i want to save the part i feel strongest about for last, although all of it bothers me
okay, so, a lot of cape's early posting can be summed up as "doesn't get jokes". now, not getting jokes isn't inherently wolfy. but take note of the verbiage here - "a little odd". not only is it hedgy it stops short of actually making a call on my alignment - "odd" does not equate to "wolfy", townies can be "odd". it's a little thing but often wolves tend to avoid directly actually calling anything wolfy.
additionally he says katze's response seems "justified" - what parts of that post seem justified? it's...an obvious joke about voting "sleep" to take a nap. it's messing around, there's
again, not getting a joke is not a crime in and of itself but it doesn't seem to me like he's actually reading what is being said in a critical way
now, running back in time 5 seconds, we have another instance of cape not getting a fairly obvious joke
the problem here is he's only responding to this post with a cookie-cutter, broad brushstroke argument - "busywork". what parts of that post seem like busywork? we don't know, because cape doesn't respond to any of the content within. to me this looks like he's making reads based on form rather than content, which is again wolfy because it's a sign that he's not actually reading the game critically - if he had actually tried to engage with any of the "points" zack made in that post i'd be willing to give credit for being tryhardy even if he missed an obvious joke. but as it is, it doesn't look like he actually tried to meaningfully evaluate the stuff zack was saying, because I think if anyone puts more than two seconds of thought into reading his words they'd say "oh, this is an obvious joke".
as it is, it looks like he saw that it looked like a post by post analysis list and decided to call it busy work and shade it. he didn't stop to actually read it.
this part here is just...super wolfy? "hey guys, surprised no one is calling this wolfy, i mean i dont, but you might?". it's such a bizzre comment to make, like he's tossing out a bit of bait to see if someone will bite, but keeping his own distance from it. the problem is this: if he doesn't believe that sort of thing is a meaningful tell, why bring it up at all?
it just doesn't read like a natural thought at all. when someone doesn't think a post is alignment indicative, they typically don't talk about it. but here he's simultaneously trying to shade the post and distance himself from it. i dont get the sense this is something said by someone who is trying to find wolves.
"i don't see it" in response to an early wolfread push. not inherently bad in and of itself, but it is the kind of thing wolves frequently say in the earlygame - being dismissive of early wolfreads is an easy way to fake content, because all they have to do is disagree with people. wolves rarely are the type to lead a charge on someone so they'll often hold back when someone makes a stretchy case in the early game
i can sense some people probably rolling their eyes at this, and that's fine, it's a very minor point but i still wanted to discuss it because it pinged me. like i said, by itself this isn't a strong point at all because it can easily be said by a villager, but within the body of work i find it problematic.
says nothing, does nothing.
what, exactly, is there to like about this post? it's kind of generically agreeable in that it makes a point about how to play the game, and I agree that some forward momentum is preferable to a tepid, stagnant game, but it doesn't actually give me feelings on newcomb's alignment one way or the other. and again the verbiage of "in a sort of random way" is another statement that doesn't really do anything except to soften the read that follows.
first point, he "doesn't like" a read. but does it mean anything for ladds alignment? he doesn't bother to say. it's easy to agree or disagree with things other people say, but what is harder is to generate your own analysis and thoughts. and what we have is that he is "sort of villagery" (again, more soft language) for "actually the same reasons", which...doesn't make sense at all? it doesn't actually meaningfully address the points ladd is making. why is he villagery for mostly responding to things or "posting just to post"? it's a totally half-baked response, there's nothing in cape's posts that gives a real indicator of why he thinks ender is villagery.
This is a very pedantic sort of dismissal to ender that doesn't really engage with the substance of the argument being made at all. "you said he was putting it forward as if it was a deep read, but it was on one post so it can't be deep at all". which, okay, but he very clearly meant it as a serious read, and cape selectively cuts off the latter parts of his post where ender gets into the more elaborate parts of his thinking about how wolves sometimes try to get too serious too early and hard switch. it doesnt look like hes meaningfully evaluating or considering enders words, just blandly dismissing a point he feels is eay to shoot down. this looks like cape isnt actually trying to read neb or ender. it kind of feeds back into what i said earlier about wolves tending to spend a lot of time in the early game shooting down reads rather than trying to solve.
(fwiw, i did like nebjiamn trying to make a serious accusation early there, and i think the antsiness to move the game forward and disappointment at being engaged with is towny. i didnt really want to respond to the read at the time though because th read itself felt stretchy and it would be more useful to see how the person being accused responds to it rather than saying anything myself. i think dobbys response to it is fine for now. i dont agree with enders take that it could be a wolf play although i understand the reasoning)
this is maybe the most egregious instance of cape's hedgy verbiage - why qualify the read in this way? how can something almost look really wolfy?i can find it understandable only finding something slightly suspicious in the early game, but this just comes across like he's afraid to throw a punch. reads very unnatural. either it's really wolfy or it isn't.
that is to say nothing of how again this is an egregious misreading of katze's post - if he was actually paying attention he'd have noticed the second line talks about a "pasta" and i assume cape is at least familiar enough with the concept of "copypasta" to know what that means.
and again not getting smeone's inside joke is not a crime, but what this again demonstrates is that cape is not really reading posts critically, but selectively, picking and choosing things to comment on. he picks out the first and last lines to attack while missing the part that tells him the bottom part of the post is fake and therefore irrelevant.
again with the verbiage heavy on qualifiers, cape can hardly make a read without distancing himself from it
and again he can't actually bring himself to say how the post was supposed to be an "attempt at doing something". he doesn't engage with the substance at all. zack called something like 90% of the posts to that point wolfy, which is obviously absurd. i dont...get the sense cape was actually reading or evaluating that post in a meaningful way, just glossing it over and assuming it had to have been serious
I'll need to sleep on this one.
(Hundred posts later too)
not really a fan of monsters posts so far
:rtwno:
I get it, but I'm sure it's just the wind.
Cape seems more like mischop bait to me than a wolf :shrug:
I guess the massive wall is hypothetically villagy but it seems so unnecessary to go in that hard in so much detail this early
Not if you're power towning or scumming. You know.
id rather take a swing at the strongest read i have and see what responses it provokes, get some good ~discourse~ rolling. i had planned to hold off until closer to the 24 hour mark but felt like the conversation was drifting a bit so it was a good time to lay my cards on the table
Mission accomplished.
Not a super impactful read but I do think if cape = w and especially if zack also= v then Sleep's like never ever a wolf. Being the second person to jump on this stuff after zack, while showing a pretty big awareness of cape's position in the thread - especially that zack kind of jokey townread him - gives him like the perfect ultra sweet opportunity to double down on a bus or pre-bus, instead he's got a very natural post here where he's more focused on the reactions to cape instead of laying out the problems he has with the post. As w/w with cape here he's really really gonna want those problems on the record, and not as like the 4th or 5th person to jump on it.
Maybe.
You... want to give up town KP in a game that's gonna have like 6 deaths in the first four phases?
Like I'm struggling to parse this, you want to have the ability to read into the kill the wolves make at night, but you don't think you'll be able to read into a kill that we collectively decide to make instead of just the wolves? And you want to preemptively make D1 have no stakes by removing the possibility of a wolf dying?
That's like.... some wild degree of TWTBAW / TWTBTWTBAW / TWTBWTRIWMVMWIRWJ:KFSDKDF:JKDF where my brain kind of blue screens.
5 deaths at most. Now stip denigrating No Lim.
zack is wolfy
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/223260125786406912/966572243641585674/ezgif-4-838b59896a.gif
Preemptively, why?
ehh, how often do you see a wolf who notices their teammate made a wolfy post, notices no one calling it out, and then makes it a point to draw attention to the post but also not push on it? it's really written in a way where he's positioned to get credit off a motnmorency w flip. not saying its impossible, but i dont really see it
Sometimes?
but im also just not going to get deep into worldbuiding on day 1, too many conditionals and the whole thing falls apart if ur wrong on one person
Be a hero.
lock town
I guess you are GH.
- sunbae's opener just seemed fake 2 me, in every game I've played with him as a villager he made a big effort going out of his way to leave PR cover, and while that doesn't really matter in this setup, it still struck me as out of character. *Sunbae* didn't even bother reading a setup before reading a bunch of posts in the actual game? :inquisitive:
- I thought ender had easily the most fry-worthy start and Cape looks more like "villager who gets misyeeted" than an actual wolf to me. Sunbae ignored all ender discourse afaict, and has railed against Cape a good amount and even tried to tie him to Monty as w/w on what seemed like a big stretch to me. Just doesn't make me feel good.
So it doesn't fill you with bloodlust?
afaik we've never played together (you did mentor me in a game once tho) and you're someone i more know based off of reputation than anything
and i think ur pretty weaksauce so far, this post included
Magical missiles fired!
i'm talking about the way you're playing with orientation to other people
there's a blurry line between "feels alone" and "would feel somewhat alone as a wolf slash not comfortable enough with partners that they still think/talk/act in a way that's somewhat separate from the rest of the group"
Interesting.
i have a second wolf read i will not be disclosing at this point in time
Is it disclosed yet?
ur pretty weaksauce so far too (based on a weirdly arbitrary view of your meta)
He go so hard he probably town.
:bullseye: better emotes
:bullseye: better multiquote function
:bullseye: chill games where people aren't mad at everyone by mid day 1 for daring to wolf read them
the org goat
*thank*
I kinda feel like neb coming in while newcomb/ladd/zack have expressed concerns on me and initiating a discussion on it while calling me town is pretty towny but i'm trying really hard to cut out "reads based solely on how the player handles talking about me" cause it's the type of thing I can get turned around on pretty easily. Feels right still
Makes sense?
thats how i feel about your iso:clown:
lmao
I think sunbae has been like obvs villagery for like the whole game, someone explain to me why I'm wrong because I see quite a few people saying I'm wrong. Not like "HK you are wrong" but lots of "sunbae can absolutely be a wolf"
This is towny in a way I struggle putting into my vocabulary :p
My first instinct upon seeing the first half is that Zack and Csargo are paired again and hastily voting me out of the Fear of my immense analytical prowess. Here's some thread revenge.
[...]
Preemptively, why?
top part is spicy
to answer the question it was a joke post
for the sole purpose of being contrary im going to call that wall a lazy villager wall
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 22:12
monty's wall of regrets is everything i'd hoped for and more
for the sole purpose of being contrary im going to call that wall a lazy villager wall
it actually doesnt trigger my gag reflex when it comes to quote stripe walls, which is a lot of replies making irrelevant/conversational things. its at least p focused on game content stuff. idk that its villagy but i dont find it wolfy
yeah no problem.
My OG vote on Katze was 100% a shitpost vote.
People started piling onto katze tho and that felt weird to me. Like if they're a wolf then it's great, but if they're town a runaway wagon on them to start the game seems like a good opportunity for a wolf or two to get on and try to hang there for a chop today.
That's the basis for the v read there, basically that too many people were like "hmm yes katze is a good vote at this stage of the game".
I subscribe to the theory that early game wagons have lasting impact on the rest of the game through a kind of communal thread memory and that an early game wagon like that on a villager is one way to put a potential strong village player into the POE to make them either post out of it or allow for "bad votes" later in the game by calling back to it.
As for why the shade on this post? I think I figured it out and it is the middle part also combined with their explaining why they have a village read on katze. It just feels like a weak reason for giving katze a town pass versus looking into content and finding that out yourself as the bolded just implies bad intentions of everyone that was on the katze vote in a game where there is no majority vote
nebjiamn
04-22-2022, 22:20
there's an aloofness to newcomb's posts right now that i have 0 idea how to process
that mont wall sure does exist
i mean i agree that its maybe not the most ~logically sound~ reasoning but i feel like he actually believes it
i mean i agree that its maybe not the most ~logically sound~ reasoning but i feel like he actually believes it
the was wrt #855 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829148&viewfull=1#post2053829148)
Montmorency
04-22-2022, 22:22
:angel::angel:
hk, sunbae
:angel:
sleep, newcomb
:beatnik2:
cuth, csar, dobby, rask
:pimp2:
benneh, ladd, katze, monstr
:pimp2::pimp2:
cape, blade, monty
:pimp2::pimp2::pimp2::pimp2::pimp2:
zack
:deal:
Vote:Montmorency
:cool3:
zack
:2thumbsup: (villagy enough for d1)
newcomb
katze
cape
hollowkatt
:rtwyes: (slightly above null)
benneh
cuth
ladd
sleep
:hide: (null)
csargo
winston
rask
~:handball: (mostly not here but also didnt particularly care for their posts, slightly below null)
dobby
monstr
:boxedin: (sorry bronana)
sunbae
:damnmate:
ender/bladescape
monty
All within minutes. Could be WH distancing (notice leans), but there is another explanation.
Newcomb: if i'm not mistaken, you have a bit of a policy to not interact with people you wolfread, right? i'm assuming thats why you're kinda talking around me atp
if that's the case then i would prefer you not do that, at least for a bit?
i don't reallllly think your scumread on me is in good faith, but regardless of that i feel like more and more people who know you better than i know you are calling you a villager, some with a decent bit of confidence, and if they're right i feel like it'd be better for both of us to find some common ground
Bad katze interaction with NC. NC's #389 response is pleasing. Great WIFOMs.
i was repeating to zack what katze said to newc for effect
I'm realizing that Zack and Katze are anagrams. Does it mean something?
Also, now I remember that katze is the one who claimed to be GH, not Sleep.
I'm going to point out that last time I was actually wolf with you (Hello remember when I literally cased you and got you voted out and I was red?) I was townread and no one thought I was struggling to get into thread.
This honestly feels a VERY weird take on me given that the game I'm talking about was the last time HK and I played together. For him to seriously believe I would struggle to get my groove on as wolf is...
Kinda honestly wolfy.
Your story leaves me in the opposite.
Great example:
I once left Pizza alive all game as wolf to see if I could fool him til the end. (I couldn't, he caught me near lylo, but it was fun as hell.)
You had a choice and you let him live? What are you, a Bond villain?!?
Vote: Ender
- It seems the people with a lot of experience with Mont have them as a wolf so I guess I will as well. It also excites me that my pew pew read of Cape/Mont w/w could be the case still.
What do you remember about me from our Zack game a year ago? You were N1ed.
I read a couple of monty games on this forums and he seems to have no problems posting as a wolf. can the orgers elaborate on why they think he is a wolf from his 3 posts?
you going after monty was spooky, then I saw the other orgers thought he was a wolf too so maybe I was missing some meta but from a quick skim of 2 of his games he seems like a perfectly competent wolf so i dont realy see whats up
Which games though.
just for the record, this isn't an ironclad meta-read or anything, it's partly to see how he reacts / light a fire under his bum. (if ladd is a wolf he may have tmi'd monty town in #554 :curtain:)
more generally, v possible we are v/v and having a hard time communicating with each other
also this is somewhat tangential but i think newcomb is probably Just A Villager here
So bomb ladd.
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 22:23
there's an aloofness to newcomb's posts right now that i have 0 idea how to process
just call it scummy?
:shrug:
nebjiamn
04-22-2022, 22:27
just call it scummy?
:shrug:
i'm not sure it is otherwise i would
The lack of appreciation for my lyrical masterpiece makes me sad.
man i thought Kendrick was gonna be the thing I looked forward too the most when it came to lyrical masterpieces :hail:
those are definitely monty walls :book2:
some of newcomb's more recent posts today are meh
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 22:29
i'm not sure it is otherwise i would
who won't you chop today?
the fact I don't think katze had a good reason to unvote me worries me
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 22:30
the fact I don't think katze had a good reason to unvote me worries me
go on...
Tally as of #868 (editing in)
Players Votes
Enderwiggin 3 zack, Raskolnikov, Montmorency
Newcomb 3 nebjiamn, Enderwiggin, Sleep
Montmorency 2 Csargo, Sunbae
Sleep 2 ladd, Newcomb
Raskolnikov 2 Cuthillius, Monstrdude
Csargo 2 Cape90, hollowkatt
zack 1 Winston Hughes
hollowkatt 1 Dobby
Sunbae 0
katze 0
ladd 0
Cuthillius 0
Dobby 0
Monstrdude 0
nebjiamn 0
Cape90 0
Winston Hughes 0
some of cape's posts remind me a bit of 2016/2017 era MU Zack
no i wont comment on this further
:curtain:
Montmorency
04-22-2022, 22:33
I haven't processed the Monstr farrago yet, but my vote there is fine for the moment. What's the tally ya bums?
After coming back to it, you may be right.
As I said earlier, I think I just kneejerk reacted to the first post ruining my happy fun meme time.
Hmph.
Anyway, recap: HK suss Ender suss NC?
I disagree that newcomb has done very little
I've played with Csargo, Monty, and Winston countless times. Csargo and Monty have done close to nothing, and while that's maybe not too out of character for Csargo on d1 he can do more, and Monty/Winston are almost always far more active and engaged than this
You sure tho? I had 16 posts D1 of Mass Effect, half of them around EOD. This is how I do.
But the characterization does feel in good faith.
If you were a sorceror, what would happen if you ensorcelled Cuth?
Newcomb:
i'm not so much interested in like... convincing you that you're a wolf
okay but how do you convince a person that they themselves are wolf?
nebjiamn
04-22-2022, 22:35
who won't you chop today?
probably:
zack
Ladd
Newcomb
Sunbae
katze
Sleep
hollowkatt
HK i have been wavering on a bit but i think that might just be read decay more than anything. newcomb is on the list obviously but not cause i v read him so much as others that i trust are
not keen on lunching everyone not on this list but they're folks i don't think i'm going to spend a bunch of energy defending if their wagons pop up
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 22:36
zack
Ladd
Newcomb
Sunbae
katze
Sleep
hollowkatt
too many names on that list
okay but how do you convince a person that they themselves are wolf?
gaslight gatekeep girlboss
nebjiamn
04-22-2022, 22:37
too many names on that list
who would you remove
so that leaves v/v or v(sleep)/w(cape). personally i don't think cape has been very villagery, partially due to meta reasons - it's something i don't really feel like pursuing strongly today though because i think cape is like, blindingly villagery as town after a few phases.
i don't really know what the ~threadstate~ would look like in any of these worlds, that's not really something i'm great at and i feel like the mafia roles aren't particularly important so it's not like mafia are obligated to like, hard defend their vig or something.
my current take is that it's v/v > v(sleep)/w(cape)>>>>>w(sleep)/v(cape)>>>>>>>>w/w
1. Why is v/v Sleep/me more likely then v/w Sleep/me? I mean the first part of the first thing you talked upon is why you DONT believe I am town for meta reasons.
2. Okay so from what I understand from the rest of the first part is that I become more towny the longer I am alive, etc. Kinda a based take ngl
3. My bet my arm and ankle that Sleep is town
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 22:41
who would you remove
everyone but hk and sunbae
you?
gaslight gatekeep girlboss
true, I wasn't considering that
the fact I don't think katze had a good reason to unvote me worries me
this is...interesting ig
nebjiamn
04-22-2022, 22:43
everyone but hk and sunbae
you?
HK and newc would prob be next off my list
don't see a need to prune it any further than that
Tally has been updated, let me know if there are any issues thx
eod in just over 2 hours
i'm out for the day
if i die I don't have a legacy or strong reads and don't quote my random readslist from forever ago and imply it's meaningful
glgl with eod
~:wave:
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 22:44
Tally as of #868 (editing in)
Players Votes
Enderwiggin 3 zack, Raskolnikov, Montmorency
Newcomb 3 nebjiamn, Enderwiggin, Sleep
Montmorency 2 Csargo, Sunbae
Sleep 2 ladd, Newcomb
Raskolnikov 2 Cuthillius, Monstrdude
Csargo 2 Cape90, hollowkatt
zack 1 Winston Hughes
hollowkatt 1 Dobby
Sunbae 0
katze 0
ladd 0
Cuthillius 0
Dobby 0
Monstrdude 0
nebjiamn 0
Cape90 0
Winston Hughes 0
:sweatdrop:
1. Why is v/v Sleep/me more likely then v/w Sleep/me? I mean the first part of the first thing you talked upon is why you DONT believe I am town for meta reasons.
2. Okay so from what I understand from the rest of the first part is that I become more towny the longer I am alive, etc. Kinda a based take ngl
3. My bet my arm and ankle that Sleep is town
spitball take was that you two were slightly more likely v/v than you being mafia
dont remember my exact thought process there
nebjiamn
04-22-2022, 22:46
i'm out for the day
if i die I don't have a legacy or strong reads and don't quote my random readslist from forever ago and imply it's meaningful
glgl with eod
~:wave:
i think what zack means is he's got a n0 peek on me as villager
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 22:46
i'm out for the day
if i die I don't have a legacy or strong reads and don't quote my random readslist from forever ago and imply it's meaningful
glgl with eod
~:wave:
i want to chop you for this so much
also if i understand the setup correctly, PRs should just hardclaim day 2 because the wolves can't do anything to stop them n2 anyway? get some innocent children and avoid a potential suicide bomb tragedy
nebjiamn
04-22-2022, 22:47
Vote: Enderwiggin
i want to chop you for this so much
ur read on me feels kinda fake man
out 4 real
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 22:47
ur read on me feels kinda fake man
out 4 real
:bow:
also if i understand the setup correctly, PRs should just hardclaim day 2 because the wolves can't do anything to stop them n2 anyway? get some innocent children and avoid a potential suicide bomb tragedy
longer they're alive unclaimed the later in the game we could theoretically have clears in, but they can theoretically both claim D1 and be guaranteed to get their actions off N1/N2 anyway
some of cape's posts remind me a bit of 2016/2017 era MU Zack
no i wont comment on this further
:curtain:
aw this is the first time an og has compared me to themselves. I am proud
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 22:48
...
i generally dont care for outing roles early and assume this isnt a pl where someone will yolo explode without giving a chance for a claim
You know, there's something really nice about being in a mafia game thats 48 hour days and chill enough that I can just disappear for most of a day and not feel bad or overwhelmed about it. this is how i need to play all my games in the future
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 22:49
vote: zack
come on
let's do this!
:shakehands:
nebjiamn
04-22-2022, 22:49
i hard claim the mafia stalker
i generally dont care for outing roles early and assume this isnt a pl where someone will yolo explode without giving a chance for a claim
yeah im just saying that the setup isn't exactly easy to go wrong in (just realized d1 massclaim could go poorly if n1 vest is on a wolf, so d2 is more Optimal but ideally we don't need a massclaim)
i generally dont care for outing roles early and assume this isnt a pl where someone will yolo explode without giving a chance for a claim
I am blasting at start of day with no regards for human life if I'm chosen
i hard claim the mafia stalker
hehe
morning
skimmed a catchup, main impression is that raskol is like, a league above the last time i played with him (swag city, he was mafia) so he's probs a villager
skipped the newcomb wolfcase because i'm kinda leaning towards not killing him today even if i think he has high enough mafia equity, for #raisins
also now that the game ended i was hosting a sorc17 on MU and cape was p largely suspected in the earlygame for iffy reasons and imo was super villagery on the day he died, mbe he was townier cuz he had a vest buuuuuut it's part of why i also kinda dont wanna kill him today either
except my vote is apparently still on him
unvote: Cape90
ill figure out where it goes later
I read this post, and like, there is an explanation here, but nothing that actually tries to assess my content now and why I am town now
nebjiamn
04-22-2022, 22:51
why does everyone keep talking about vests
i don't see that in the OP
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 22:51
i hard claim the mafia stalker
your teammates?
nebjiamn
04-22-2022, 22:51
katze, who do you wanna lunch
ladd and zack wanted to let you lead
nebjiamn
04-22-2022, 22:52
your teammates?
katze, newcomb, and mont
you were only 1 off
I read this post, and like, there is an explanation here, but nothing that actually tries to assess my content now and why I am town now
tbh i forgot i was voting you but also im refusing to explain purely to spite you now <3
why does everyone keep talking about vests
i don't see that in the OP
the town PRs (and one mafia PR) are suicide vest givers
I'm going to do the correct thing now, and prioritise other things and then have some me time for a while before i sleep, if i show up for eod please yell at me because i really dont want to and im enjoying this game a lot and dont feel like getting upset later :P
I'll do my readslist first, i probably have two varieties, one is the GUT list that just feels right, the other one is based on like, posts in thread and what i think would be objectively correct. The motivations won't be good or lengthy unless they are, because I don't feel like doing anything more extensive right now.
dobby - ugly
nebjiamn - just straight up most reasonable posts in the game but that could possibly be because its the easiest way of thinking for me to relate to. The classic "calls out the things i want to call out kinda in the way i would do it" and just feels very yes this is so good.
Sleep - So this is a tough one because Sleep is playing well but just has this different worldview on stuff from what i have, im trying my best to see where their brain is coming from and i think i might see it being genuine town stuff. The initial case on cape where everything about it reeked of confbias and no attempt to evaluate cape felt really off, but our exchange afterwards with posts like this one (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828973&viewfull=1#post2053828973) and this one (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828988&viewfull=1#post2053828988) are very very towny fmpov. Or, fmGpov. (without gut prolly way lower)
zack - Has a lot of good posts first half of the game, together with benneh the one i nodded along with the most when i read his posts. I messed up who posted what for a bit (i thought zack posts were rask posts and referring to cape posts about winston rather than cuth so lolme), so realising that cleared up a lot of the doubts i had on zack, pretty confident town tbh.
monstrbro - town.
EnderWiggin - I've had some big doubts on this slot because a lot of thought patterns have felt feigned (i translated the word from swedish sorry if its a dumb word that doesnt make sense) but the more i think about it i feel like it's probably just from a town mindset and if i go with gut this is just town yes.
katze - nya. ayaya. I've said stuff about their newcomb reads and talked to them about it, i do (now) believe that the push is legit, especially that wall sold me on katze town tbh.
cuthillius - My gutread probably gives cuth way more cred than what i'd give his posts in isolation. It's just the way he focuses on stuff and the things he writes are way less uh "square" than when he's wolfing.
Ladd - I've been flipflopping on ladd, this post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828415&viewfull=1#post2053828415) just had way more than id expect at that point, but maybe its just the ladd way of pumping out reads and then tweaking. His later posts just feel like they have the enthusiasm and "fire" that town ladd has, especially the more (for ladd) wordy ones, it's also a bit relaxed which is nice to see. Gut says town.
Csargo - From a "haven't really caught up with all the posts and stuff" perspective, he looks pretty alright. There are some posts that feel a bit "thoughtful/digging" (theres a better word for it im sure) in a very towny way and i think with more activity and being caught up he shouldn't be on many woof lists.
Newcomb - tough one because like, kat was locked onto newcomb wolf from start and i think most of the talk about newcomb is founded in that his name has been showing repeatedly idk. I think kat didn't really sell the case well and newcomb has been doing stuff that genuinely look like they're trying to progress the game without trying to like, steer the direction of stuff, ish. Gut says idk.
Montmorency - Seems to be posting more now but idk
--
Winston Hughes - This is a tough read because uh, if I say something it'll be omgus. I hadn't paid much attention to Winston other than the Cape thoughts, which I thought were not very reasonable, but genuinely trying to understand the motivation to vote me or even put me as a wolfread out of like "whats going on in their head"ness, and i can't really do it, honestly, but I'll refrain from saying much more there for now.
Cape90 - This is a tough one. Cape feels like the designated "doesn't really fit well into thread dynamics and therefore gets a lot of (negative) attention". The pushes on cape have felt not great for other reasons than the actual cape posts being pointed out - but there's nothing about cape's content that really makes me go this is towny. Gut is telling me that this is really a town player but it's also very much not in line with what my brain tells me.
Sunbae - WEH. I wrote a few posts about Sunbae but, it's a tough one for me. If i place a W read here it's easy to attribute it to just wanting to find Sunbae W at some point in my mafia career, but, GUT tells me wolf, not gut tells me probably town. I will say the rask - sunbae interaction is the type of thing that pings me a lot as possibly w-w (as in if one is w the other one is maybe w) with how rask has approached sunbae.
Raskolnikov - Majority has been like, the monstr stuff and i don't really want to share thoughts on that except it might very well be v/v stuff. Other than that we had a short interaction where dEtAiLs were pointed out but, as a whole i kinda don't see the process at all but i still kinda like where he ends up with his reads, if that makes sense.
hollowkatt - I talked about hollowkatt a bit, with the "motivation" behind his post, and mention briefly a lot of hk posts have pinged me as "this is just wolf". I could write a case but i'm also just, tired. The quick version with a few posts is presented here - This post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828501&viewfull=1#post2053828501). Dont think it needs explanation for that point in the game. Then there's
this (1) (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828610&highlight=#post2053828610)sequence (2) (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828647&viewfull=1#post2053828647) of (3) (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828649&viewfull=1#post2053828649) posts (4) (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828678&viewfull=1#post2053828678) that just doesn't check out. It feels like the wolf thing where you pick someone to pick on and then push slowly and then finding stuff in the answers that you can build on a case with and then hopefully land in a spot where a misyeet wouldn't look wolfy for your slot.
also i havent read through stuff and moving things around so maybe stuff dont make sense.
ill proooooooooobably not be back tonight xoxo love u all ur beautiful souls
Don't mind me, I'm just gonna spend some time catching up
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 22:53
katze, newcomb, and mont
you were only 1 off
monty always gets past me
nebjiamn
04-22-2022, 22:53
tbh i forgot i was voting you but also im refusing to explain purely to spite you now <3
the town PRs (and one mafia PR) are suicide vest givers
ok
i knew that obv but i just wasn't familiar with the terminology of 'vest' for the suicide bomber. i was thinking someone was also getting / handing out a bpv
katze, who do you wanna lunch
ladd and zack wanted to let you lead
i'm still not quite sure and don't really like the pressure of deciding the vote when im more of a sheeple kinda cat
katze, newcomb, and mont
you were only 1 off
me and newcomb had some elite distancing cant believe he boomed us both :/
i'm very comfortable with calling cape strong v at this point and just making sure to look back in a day or two
I am curious on you expanding this point since I don't think I have been on my A game and I have played semifinals in Champs with you (unless wrong cuth :P)
Montmorency
04-22-2022, 22:55
too many names on that list
Oof. And your zack vote is equity rn. Triple-tie someone.
also if i understand the setup correctly, PRs should just hardclaim day 2 because the wolves can't do anything to stop them n2 anyway? get some innocent children and avoid a potential suicide bomb tragedy
Yeah, of course. But suicide bombers should not claim until close to EOD. Who do you think Cuth would bomb?
Vote: Enderwiggin
Damn, now this is concerning.
longer they're alive unclaimed the later in the game we could theoretically have clears in, but they can theoretically both claim D1 and be guaranteed to get their actions off N1/N2 anyway
I like you more now.
i hard claim the mafia stalker
You're a dead-weight PR, but who are you protecting with this sacrifice? Is Newcomg your Dark Magician?
vote: zack
come on
let's do this!
:shakehands:
You already were. Though there's no field for a tie-setter now.
katze, newcomb, and mont
you were only 1 off
Bruuuuhhhh
Players Votes
Enderwiggin 4 Raskolnikov, zack, Montmorency, nebjiamn
Montmorency 2 Csargo, Sunbae
Sleep 2 ladd, Newcomb
Csargo 2 Cape90, hollowkatt
Newcomb 2 Enderwiggin, Sleep
Raskolnikov 2 Monstrdude, Cuthillius
hollowkatt 1 Dobby
zack 1 Winston Hughes
Dobby 0
Cuthillius 0
katze 0
Sunbae 0
Winston Hughes 0
ladd 0
Cape90 0
nebjiamn 0
Monstrdude 0
another tally, pls check to make sure its okay
gonna try tinkering with the formatting
nebjiamn
04-22-2022, 22:58
i'm still not quite sure and don't really like the pressure of deciding the vote when im more of a sheeple kinda cat
me and newcomb had some elite distancing cant believe he boomed us both :/
remind me of your read on HK?
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 22:59
I'm going to do the correct thing now, and prioritise other things and then have some me time for a while before i sleep, if i show up for eod please yell at me because i really dont want to and im enjoying this game a lot and dont feel like getting upset later :P
I'll do my readslist first, i probably have two varieties, one is the GUT list that just feels right, the other one is based on like, posts in thread and what i think would be objectively correct. The motivations won't be good or lengthy unless they are, because I don't feel like doing anything more extensive right now.
dobby - ugly
nebjiamn - just straight up most reasonable posts in the game but that could possibly be because its the easiest way of thinking for me to relate to. The classic "calls out the things i want to call out kinda in the way i would do it" and just feels very yes this is so good.
Sleep - So this is a tough one because Sleep is playing well but just has this different worldview on stuff from what i have, im trying my best to see where their brain is coming from and i think i might see it being genuine town stuff. The initial case on cape where everything about it reeked of confbias and no attempt to evaluate cape felt really off, but our exchange afterwards with posts like this one (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828973&viewfull=1#post2053828973) and this one (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828988&viewfull=1#post2053828988) are very very towny fmpov. Or, fmGpov. (without gut prolly way lower)
zack - Has a lot of good posts first half of the game, together with benneh the one i nodded along with the most when i read his posts. I messed up who posted what for a bit (i thought zack posts were rask posts and referring to cape posts about winston rather than cuth so lolme), so realising that cleared up a lot of the doubts i had on zack, pretty confident town tbh.
monstrbro - town.
EnderWiggin - I've had some big doubts on this slot because a lot of thought patterns have felt feigned (i translated the word from swedish sorry if its a dumb word that doesnt make sense) but the more i think about it i feel like it's probably just from a town mindset and if i go with gut this is just town yes.
katze - nya. ayaya. I've said stuff about their newcomb reads and talked to them about it, i do (now) believe that the push is legit, especially that wall sold me on katze town tbh.
cuthillius - My gutread probably gives cuth way more cred than what i'd give his posts in isolation. It's just the way he focuses on stuff and the things he writes are way less uh "square" than when he's wolfing.
Ladd - I've been flipflopping on ladd, this post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828415&viewfull=1#post2053828415) just had way more than id expect at that point, but maybe its just the ladd way of pumping out reads and then tweaking. His later posts just feel like they have the enthusiasm and "fire" that town ladd has, especially the more (for ladd) wordy ones, it's also a bit relaxed which is nice to see. Gut says town.
Csargo - From a "haven't really caught up with all the posts and stuff" perspective, he looks pretty alright. There are some posts that feel a bit "thoughtful/digging" (theres a better word for it im sure) in a very towny way and i think with more activity and being caught up he shouldn't be on many woof lists.
Newcomb - tough one because like, kat was locked onto newcomb wolf from start and i think most of the talk about newcomb is founded in that his name has been showing repeatedly idk. I think kat didn't really sell the case well and newcomb has been doing stuff that genuinely look like they're trying to progress the game without trying to like, steer the direction of stuff, ish. Gut says idk.
Montmorency - Seems to be posting more now but idk
--
Winston Hughes - This is a tough read because uh, if I say something it'll be omgus. I hadn't paid much attention to Winston other than the Cape thoughts, which I thought were not very reasonable, but genuinely trying to understand the motivation to vote me or even put me as a wolfread out of like "whats going on in their head"ness, and i can't really do it, honestly, but I'll refrain from saying much more there for now.
Cape90 - This is a tough one. Cape feels like the designated "doesn't really fit well into thread dynamics and therefore gets a lot of (negative) attention". The pushes on cape have felt not great for other reasons than the actual cape posts being pointed out - but there's nothing about cape's content that really makes me go this is towny. Gut is telling me that this is really a town player but it's also very much not in line with what my brain tells me.
Sunbae - WEH. I wrote a few posts about Sunbae but, it's a tough one for me. If i place a W read here it's easy to attribute it to just wanting to find Sunbae W at some point in my mafia career, but, GUT tells me wolf, not gut tells me probably town. I will say the rask - sunbae interaction is the type of thing that pings me a lot as possibly w-w (as in if one is w the other one is maybe w) with how rask has approached sunbae.
Raskolnikov - Majority has been like, the monstr stuff and i don't really want to share thoughts on that except it might very well be v/v stuff. Other than that we had a short interaction where dEtAiLs were pointed out but, as a whole i kinda don't see the process at all but i still kinda like where he ends up with his reads, if that makes sense.
hollowkatt - I talked about hollowkatt a bit, with the "motivation" behind his post, and mention briefly a lot of hk posts have pinged me as "this is just wolf". I could write a case but i'm also just, tired. The quick version with a few posts is presented here - This post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828501&viewfull=1#post2053828501). Dont think it needs explanation for that point in the game. Then there's
this (1) (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828610&highlight=#post2053828610)sequence (2) (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828647&viewfull=1#post2053828647) of (3) (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828649&viewfull=1#post2053828649) posts (4) (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828678&viewfull=1#post2053828678) that just doesn't check out. It feels like the wolf thing where you pick someone to pick on and then push slowly and then finding stuff in the answers that you can build on a case with and then hopefully land in a spot where a misyeet wouldn't look wolfy for your slot.
also i havent read through stuff and moving things around so maybe stuff dont make sense.
ill proooooooooobably not be back tonight xoxo love u all ur beautiful souls
i kinda still feel like dobby might be scum, but if so this is a work of genius
remind me of your read on HK?
probably town
think that the thread slowly turning against him is read decay at best and wolfy at worst
Montmorency
04-22-2022, 23:00
_:00
Time to take this into my own hands.
Vote: Rask
gonna try tinkering with the formatting
Bold the leader?
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 23:01
vote: cape
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 23:02
Vote: Rask
:lipsrsealed2:
nebjiamn
04-22-2022, 23:02
darn, monty beat me to a potential rask vote and now he's gonna hop off if i join
benneh, what do you think of winston?
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 23:05
benneh, what do you think of winston?
:lipsrsealed2:
why does everyone keep talking about vests
i don't see that in the OP
okay so the sorc hands out like these bomb vest things.
nebjiamn
04-22-2022, 23:06
benneh, what do you think of winston?
still sliiiight town vibes. i think his play is kind of purposely goofy for lack of a better word and is something i just ascribe to be more from a villager in this type of game
I like Dobby's sequence on HK, it makes good sense
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 23:08
still sliiiight town vibes. i think his play is kind of purposely goofy for lack of a better word and is something i just ascribe to be more from a villager in this type of game
benneh, what do you think of katze?
Mafia is fun cause you can express an against the grain gut fear read on HK, go to sleep, wake up to people pushing HK, and then get super skeptical on all those people for pushing HK once you expressed concern. Even though you know in your head it makes no sense.
nebjiamn
04-22-2022, 23:09
i think dobby's probably town. i liked his catchup a lot and im impressed with his readslist if he's a wolf. slotting sunbae where he does makes a ton of sense too lol
still sliiiight town vibes. i think his play is kind of purposely goofy for lack of a better word and is something i just ascribe to be more from a villager in this type of game
i don't know how to describe my read on him rn, it's wack and i was kinda hoping you'd give me something stronger to work with
cause... i think he has a townie meme energy? this is really stupid but i legitimately think the way he's memeing is village indicative
but when he's not memeing i think his posts are pretty :/
i thiiiiiiink it evens out to about the same level of townlean as you have but zack dropping a concern on winstons read on him right after i did is making me think about it a lot more
nebjiamn
04-22-2022, 23:09
benneh, what do you think of katze?
not much at all. she's polarized.
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 23:10
Mafia is fun cause you can express an against the grain gut fear read on HK, go to sleep, wake up to people pushing HK, and then get super skeptical on all those people for pushing HK once you expressed concern. Even though you know in your head it makes no sense.
you had me at 'mafia is fun'
Mafia is fun cause you can express an against the grain gut fear read on HK, go to sleep, wake up to people pushing HK, and then get super skeptical on all those people for pushing HK once you expressed concern. Even though you know in your head it makes no sense.
thats ur conscience speaking
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 23:11
one of us does have to die today
not much at all. she's polarized.
ur mom is polarized
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 23:12
feels bad
nebjiamn
04-22-2022, 23:12
not much at all. she's polarized.
in all srsness, she's one of my top villagers. i think there's been some underlying stuff that i've felt that she's sort of expressed that I could kind of meld with without her having to even fully articulate what she's talking about but i just understand because i was in the same headspace. this has been specifically around a lot of the newcomb stuff but there were a few other points throughout the day too
she's a very good wolf though so i'll prob just kill her at f3 out of fear
nebjiamn
04-22-2022, 23:13
i don't know how to describe my read on him rn, it's wack and i was kinda hoping you'd give me something stronger to work with
cause... i think he has a townie meme energy? this is really stupid but i legitimately think the way he's memeing is village indicative
but when he's not memeing i think his posts are pretty :/
i thiiiiiiink it evens out to about the same level of townlean as you have but zack dropping a concern on winstons read on him right after i did is making me think about it a lot more
it legitimately sounds like we have the exact same read on him
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 23:13
but zack will forgive us
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 23:14
eventually
I'm still trying to figure out what Winston said about me. They just kinda voted me. I don't see whatever is "unfair"
nebjiamn
04-22-2022, 23:15
ur mom is polarized
this but unironically alt-right polarized :crazy:
Players Votes
Enderwiggin 3 (Raskolnikov, zack, nebjiamn)
Raskolnikov 3 (Monstrdude, Cuthillius, Montmorency)
Montmorency 2 (Csargo, Sunbae)
Sleep 2 (ladd, Newcomb)
Csargo 2 (Cape90, hollowkatt)
Newcomb 2 (Enderwiggin, Sleep)
hollowkatt 1 (Dobby)
Cape90 1 (Winston Hughes)
test tally pls and thx
Mafia is fun cause I can sit here, think sleep's stuff on cape was towny, feel like Ladd wasn't really reading my posts in a way to figure out my alignment, see ladd and newcomb voting sleep, and kinda wanna close my eyes and sponge it even though my brain says thats bad and dumb
it legitimately sounds like we have the exact same read on him
yeah i stole it from wolfchat, good going, they'll never suspect us now
idk im currently trying to figure out who i think is mafia since i am apparently supposed to decide the vote today (im aware its not that serious but it doesn't stop me from giving myself unnecessary pressure on Being Correct)
idk lets throw out something spicy and see if i actually believe in it
Vote: Cuth
Mafia is fun cause I can sit here, think sleep's stuff on cape was towny, feel like Ladd wasn't really reading my posts in a way to figure out my alignment, see ladd and newcomb voting sleep, and kinda wanna close my eyes and sponge it even though my brain says thats bad and dumb
get out of my head
Mafia is fun cause I can sit here, think sleep's stuff on cape was towny, feel like Ladd wasn't really reading my posts in a way to figure out my alignment, see ladd and newcomb voting sleep, and kinda wanna close my eyes and sponge it even though my brain says thats bad and dumb
this might sound obnoxious but i legitimately believe ive been p obvious town this game
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 23:20
I'm still trying to figure out what Winston said about me. They just kinda voted me. I don't see whatever is "unfair"
i sheeped sleep
it was a decent case for the early game
my brain is telling me to be a hero and vote newcomb
someone tell me thats a bad idea and that i should feel stupid for having it
nebjiamn
04-22-2022, 23:21
my brain is telling me to be a hero and vote newcomb
someone tell me thats a bad idea and that i should feel stupid for having it
Vote: Newcomb
nebjiamn
04-22-2022, 23:22
its a stupid and ideayou should feel stupid for having it
hehepeepeehoohoo
Montmorency
04-22-2022, 23:23
Voting Newcomb is a dumb idea katze. Vote Ender instead.
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 23:24
dobby, newcomb, benneh, katze
vote: dobby
Players Votes
Raskolnikov 3 (Monstrdude, Cuthillius, Montmorency)
Newcomb 3 (Enderwiggin, Sleep, nebjiamn)
Enderwiggin 2 (Raskolnikov, zack)
Sleep 2 (ladd, Newcomb)
Csargo 2 (Cape90, hollowkatt)
Montmorency 2 (Csargo, Sunbae)
hollowkatt 1 (Dobby)
Cape90 1 (Winston Hughes)
Cuthillius 1 (katze)
i love textjoin (#952)
its a stupid and ideayou should feel stupid for having it
hehepeepeehoohoo
i feel much better now
hehe
Voting Newcomb is a dumb idea katze. Vote Ender instead.
maybe
kinda wanna feel out cuth first but i might swap to ender if the wagons at eod are the same as they are cause i don't rly want rask to go over and i thiiiiink im not enough of a hero to allow a d1 newcomb vote even if i think he's relatively >rand mafia
nebjiamn
04-22-2022, 23:26
i love textjoin (#952)
:stare:
this might sound obnoxious but i legitimately believe ive been p obvious town this game
and like i dont feel like those guys should never get a read wrong on day 1 ever because thats an outrageous standard, but i dont think its remotely hard to find me as town this game, i feel like i have been transparent in my thought process, analyzing everyone in the game, and hitting a depth of thought that is hard to fake. i feel like that should be easy to see even without meta. and i havent felt like they were really trying to solve my alignment.
e.g. in contrast dobby suspicion of me felt believable (and im not saying that just because of where he put me in his reads, i think u can see at the time i was responding to him i felt like his read of me made sense). monstr was kinda weird, i wanted to question him on it because i could see it going either way, him going long post = town to my wall was kinda lazy but sometimes villagers are lazy
afk for a bit so i wont get to reply to anything right away
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 23:29
sleep angling for default chop d2
and like i dont feel like those guys should never get a read wrong on day 1 ever because thats an outrageous standard, but i dont think its remotely hard to find me as town this game, i feel like i have been transparent in my thought process, analyzing everyone in the game, and hitting a depth of thought that is hard to fake. i feel like that should be easy to see even without meta. and i havent felt like they were really trying to solve my alignment.
e.g. in contrast dobby suspicion of me felt believable (and im not saying that just because of where he put me in his reads, i think u can see at the time i was responding to him i felt like his read of me made sense). monstr was kinda weird, i wanted to question him on it because i could see it going either way, him going long post = town to my wall was kinda lazy but sometimes villagers are lazy
afk for a bit so i wont get to reply to anything right away
long post = town
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 23:36
vote: ladd
Montmorency
04-22-2022, 23:37
and like i dont feel like those guys should never get a read wrong on day 1 ever because thats an outrageous standard, but i dont think its remotely hard to find me as town this game, i feel like i have been transparent in my thought process, analyzing everyone in the game, and hitting a depth of thought that is hard to fake. i feel like that should be easy to see even without meta. and i havent felt like they were really trying to solve my alignment.
e.g. in contrast dobby suspicion of me felt believable (and im not saying that just because of where he put me in his reads, i think u can see at the time i was responding to him i felt like his read of me made sense). monstr was kinda weird, i wanted to question him on it because i could see it going either way, him going long post = town to my wall was kinda lazy but sometimes villagers are lazy
afk for a bit so i wont get to reply to anything right away
I have mixed feelings about most of you.
vote: ladd
Is this a bit?
962
Players Votes
Raskolnikov 3 (Monstrdude, Cuthillius, Montmorency)
Newcomb 3 (Enderwiggin, Sleep, nebjiamn)
Enderwiggin 2 (Raskolnikov, zack)
Sleep 2 (ladd, Newcomb)
Csargo 2 (Cape90, hollowkatt)
Montmorency 2 (Csargo, Sunbae)
hollowkatt 1 (Dobby)
Cuthillius 1 (katze)
ladd 1 (Winston Hughes)
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 23:38
Is this a bit?
no...
Montmorency
04-22-2022, 23:40
no...
You keep starting bare wagons.
vote: ladd
Also, I'm reticent to even voice this, but I can't help but notice how the host declined to edit his tally even when you posted a new vote just seconds before.
Almost as if he KNEW you were about to change your vote.
:magnify:
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 23:42
You keep starting bare wagons.
yeah
but they're honest
I honestly thought Monty would call me a woof and snap vote me. Instead they just called me a woof or like lightly implied it I guess. ~:confused:
Winston's way far out in super happy fun time land, and I have no idea what to make of that.
montys tinfoil on the VC is really villagery but also probably doesn't mean anything
kinda surprised nobody has any opinions on me voting cuth
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 23:49
Winston's way far out in super happy fun time land, and I have no idea what to make of that.
joy = town
joy = town
i should be locktown to you then ��
Cuthillius
04-22-2022, 23:50
the reason i'm v-reading ender so strongly is a) the like i'm gonna take this game on my shoulders come what may attitude paired with b) the way he responded to my probing
i don't think like anyone would be that thrilled with things being teased apart that way but it was definitely much more strongly the vibe of someone who had thought about and believed in somewhat contradictory and odd perspectives and was upset at someone poking them than someone who'd just come up with takes whole cloth and then got defensive as a show
idk if it's a super clear distinction for anyone else but i believe moderately strongly in this + i think they've been a prime slot to push for wolves if v basically the entire day and indeed people have been pushing them kinda constantly and i think in ways that don't really make sense in terms of reading ender specifically
in particular i have somewhat cold feet wrt ladd and his direction today but idk
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 23:50
i should be locktown to you then ��
i don't know you
Cuthillius
04-22-2022, 23:51
I'm surprisingly okay with this.
this feels like it comes from v!newc some amount more often than not
i don't know you
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/712968589316980866/967195979751231528/joycat.png
joy = town
I would think so yeah, but seems excessive?
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 23:53
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/712968589316980866/967195979751231528/joycat.png
fuuuck me that's a big cat
okay alright i'll give you a townread or something
Cuthillius
04-22-2022, 23:54
oh and more to the point if this is tryhard wolf bladescape i think that maintaining this level of play would be challenging in a way distinct from average in this playerlist
ie i'm happy with what i'm seeing today and i'm not super worried about him going super deep if w and i'm very happy with holding him to the precedent he set d1 in future phases
nebjiamn
04-22-2022, 23:54
Vote: Cuthillius
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 23:54
I would think so yeah, but seems excessive?
for me?
or in general?
nebjiamn
04-22-2022, 23:55
Cuth can you tell me about your rask read or link me to where you discuss it?
montys tinfoil on the VC is really villagery but also probably doesn't mean anything
kinda surprised nobody has any opinions on me voting cuth
i think cuth is wolfy but am kind of hedging on it because dobby seems towny and i want to respect the meta read there
Cuthillius
04-22-2022, 23:55
Vote: Cuthillius
uwu
Montmorency
04-22-2022, 23:55
I honestly thought Monty would call me a woof and snap vote me. Instead they just called me a woof or like lightly implied it I guess. ~:confused:
Glad to subvert your expectations, but it's all part of the plan, as long as I can remember it.
Winston's way far out in super happy fun time land, and I have no idea what to make of that.
Equity.
montys tinfoil on the VC is really villagery but also probably doesn't mean anything
kinda surprised nobody has any opinions on me voting cuth
Victory conditions?
The time is not ripe.
But since Zack didn't answer me, what would happen if Cuth were ensorcelled?
joy = town
Or SK.
Cuthillius
04-22-2022, 23:57
i think cuth is wolfy but am kind of hedging on it because dobby seems towny and i want to respect the meta read there
dobby likely has one of the better meta reads on me out there but i wouldn't really count on meta too much wrt me
tbh i think i would have interacted with him more this game if w/v because i would be scared he'd suicide bomber me n1 or some shit again
for me?
or in general?
Felt like you were more serious in Monty's game than here currently.
Winston Hughes
04-22-2022, 23:57
Or SK.
:bow:
Cuthillius
04-22-2022, 23:58
Cuth can you tell me about your rask read or link me to where you discuss it?
uh sure i can flesh it out once i catch up
off the top of my head his posting last night was pretty yawn and then he was pushing something i didn't like when i voted him
fuuuck me that's a big cat
okay alright i'll give you a townread or something
lmao
Victory conditions?
The time is not ripe.
But since Zack didn't answer me, what would happen if Cuth were ensorcelled?
votecoumt, not victory condition smh
and uhm. i dunno, i wouldn't hate it. if you're asking me what he'd do with it then id expect him to announce it sometime after SoD and then (if town) blow up someone the thread wants dead or (if mafia) blow up someone who the thread actively does not want dead
sleep angling for default chop d2
id rather be sorced :tnt: :flame:
Cuthillius
04-23-2022, 00:06
newc's eod post was peak newc and i feel exactly the same way about that individual post as i do about newc himself this game
it's generally sensible and like for the most part an accurate depiction of where the Thread at large is at and i agree with a lot of the broader stuff
he stole sleep as spiciest yeet smh
but.
nothing about it isn't something he couldn't or wouldn't super do as w
i have a mental catalogue of posts and like ways of interacting that lean me slightly in that direction but
i will say if w then probably with another high-power wolf? but i have a hard time coming up with one that makes sense off top of head and the way people have been playing around him
Winston Hughes
04-23-2022, 00:07
i'm shutting up now
gonna sheep whoever has the best plan
tbh i think benneh has been pocketing me the last hour or so and i kind of want them to speak more of their own thoughts individually instead of just being my cheerleader because it's irking me out
have been considering sitting on that because i think he's a villager but weh. kinda keeps rebounding in my head
Vote:hollowkatt
I'm probably super :daisy: dumb, but I don't see how hollowkatt re:ender comes to the conclusions that he did.
Winston Hughes
04-23-2022, 00:10
Felt like you were more serious in Monty's game than here currently.
i had to be more serious then
game needed more of a push
nebjiamn
04-23-2022, 00:10
tbh i think benneh has been pocketing me the last hour or so and i kind of want them to speak more of their own thoughts individually instead of just being my cheerleader because it's irking me out
have been considering sitting on that because i think he's a villager but weh. kinda keeps rebounding in my head
i don't have much to discuss besides what i've already put in the thread otherwise i would
Winston Hughes
04-23-2022, 00:10
Vote:hollowkatt
I'm probably super :daisy: dumb, but I don't see how hollowkatt re:ender comes to the conclusions that he did.
please tell me why hk is scum
EnderWiggin
04-23-2022, 00:11
I wake!
And do not think I have time to fully catch up by eod (It's like 50m right?) so I'm gonna try part living until EOD with limited skimming catch up.
i had to be more serious then
game needed more of a push
That's kinda what I figured, that's why I've been so lackadaisical.
Vote:hollowkatt
I'm probably super :daisy: dumb, but I don't see how hollowkatt re:ender comes to the conclusions that he did.
this ain't it, chief
i don't have much to discuss besides what i've already put in the thread otherwise i would
weh
ok
Cuthillius
04-23-2022, 00:13
I am curious on you expanding this point since I don't think I have been on my A game and I have played semifinals in Champs with you (unless wrong cuth :P)
yeah
tbh i've been spaced out enough that until now i couldn't remember if you were the last wolf or not i thought not but didn't remember it was vandy until this second
i don't have a super clear picture of your play and it feels like it's improved enough since then that i don't think any meta analysis i'd try to bring to it would be especially valuable
i think there are specific posts that made me think this, but i've liked the nuance and oomph of your longer-form posts that i've read, and it doesn't feel like you're particularly agenda-driven
idk i could say the word organic if i wanted to be derivative of myself
EnderWiggin
04-23-2022, 00:13
Vote:hollowkatt
I'm probably super :daisy: dumb, but I don't see how hollowkatt re:ender comes to the conclusions that he did.
I have a weird impression that this is walking back on something Csargo said already.
I'll have to double check but I had the impression that they backed off their strong read on the HK/Me interaction.
vBulletin® v3.7.1, Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.