View Full Version : Small Mafia Game Sorceror 17er Game Thread
Pages :
1
2
3
4
5
6
[
7]
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
nebjiamn
04-24-2022, 18:17
I haven't been discrete about you being ?ike my top read but
Sunbae does look good but what are your top reasons for placing him in the top? And same for rask, I mightve missed some voting dynamics stuff but iirc you were one of the ppl who voted him with me? What has changed?
sunbae is the sorc
rask looks good for monstr spew and his vote
nebjiamn
04-24-2022, 18:19
sunbae is the sorc
rask looks good for monstr spew and his vote
if he didn't claim he'd still be one of my top villagers for how he dealt with ladd on zack/newcomb and just his general approach fwiw but now that he's outed he can just go to the top
I haven't been discrete about you being ?ike my top read but
Sunbae does look good but what are your top reasons for placing him in the top? And same for rask, I mightve missed some voting dynamics stuff but iirc you were one of the ppl who voted him with me? What has changed?
Sunbae looks good with the addendum that nothing stands out compared to like.. their last games where they've been wolfing (me) so it's a kinda bold read imo
sunbae is the sorc
rask looks good for monstr spew and his vote
Oh lol, I just saw that dolby gor blown up, cool, then I can finally trust that sunbae is actually bae for real <3
*makes no sense if teamed
*not the way he'd play as a wolf
Hm, ok. Can you talk a little more about this then?
Sounds like part of it is meta ie 'wouldn't play like this as wolf' which, ok sure, not a lot to expand on there.
How about the "read on ladd makes no sense if partnered"? I mean from my (admittedly broad) PoV he had some pretty weird interactions with ladd and then ended up on the village counterwagon to ladd at EoD, and was definitely the one most pushing for me dying at that point.
I guess main question is - what makes this read obvious / slam dunk to you?
nebjiamn
04-24-2022, 18:23
lol u soab, I was thinking either you were exactly the sorcerer or a wolf because I don't believe that post for a second
I'm the backup :coffeenews:
oh i missed this post lol
so cool
I still think there is at least 1 woof in [Ender, katz, sleep] btw
if he didn't claim he'd still be one of my top villagers for how he dealt with ladd on zack/newcomb and just his general approach fwiw but now that he's outed he can just go to the top
Yeah I won't disagree with that, I yhink I wrote amth like that yesterday where he like described my inner secrets and like have been paying attention to things that I thought nobody had, about my previous games qnd mentality here
Monstr looked.... idk it really feels like a pregame tilted dude that tilted in this game as well and I really didn't think that came from a town perspective. I didn't look a lot into their exchanges because of that but I'll take your word for it now
nebjiamn
04-24-2022, 18:25
I still think there is at least 1 woof in [Ender, katz, sleep] btw
if you're a villager i can definitely see that
Also montmercy has been my blind spot this game, feels like I had a decently well founded opinion on most others last night but I clearly haven't baked in the night stuff/today stuff, and didn't fully check out eod, I just was there for the last 5 minutes
if you're a villager i can definitely see that
Was this the rule of 3 thing?
nebjiamn
04-24-2022, 18:28
Was this the rule of 3 thing?
no, i dont think so?
I just had the thought after posting my list that if there weren't 2 in my bottom 4 then i think it would be likely to be in ender/katze/sleep before the ladd voters. this was before i knew zack was the backup but i didn't include him in that thought process anyway
rule of 3+1 :wowee:
This was the post I was talking about
Is this really 4 townies lol
nebjiamn
04-24-2022, 18:30
Also montmercy has been my blind spot this game, feels like I had a decently well founded opinion on most others last night but I clearly haven't baked in the night stuff/today stuff, and didn't fully check out eod, I just was there for the last 5 minutes
ladd's overt defense and kind of silly v read of mont from start to finish feels built to attempt to spew him wolf later in the game more than protect a partner. especially considering ladd has reason to buss as the only usable mafia PR. what's your take on how he treated monty?
Sunbae
Cuth
Sleep
V/v/v imo
Maaaaaybe zack
This one!
nebjiamn
04-24-2022, 18:31
This was the post I was talking about
Is this really 4 townies lol
oh lol I forgot about that
since we know zack and sunbae are v, i guess we coudl dig in on that, but i don't actually believe that much in rule of 3 so much as i was using that to wowee myself about my sleep tinfoil
ladd's overt defense and kind of silly v read of mont from start to finish feels built to attempt to spew him wolf later in the game more than protect a partner. especially considering ladd has reason to buss as the only usable mafia PR. what's your take on how he treated monty?
I didn't pay attention to it at all :p am on phone at my uncles house and supposed to be socialising so i might dig into that later tonight/tomorrow
I did have one ladd post early that I commented on a few times like, how he had one of his first posts making a list of 5 people that seemed really out of nowhere.. I don't remember if money was in that one
oh lol I forgot about that
since we know zack and sunbae are v, i guess we coudl dig in on that, but i don't actually believe that much in rule of 3 so much as i was using that to wowee myself about my sleep tinfoil
Sleeps reaction when I pushed him fairly hard yesterday felt pretty good though
And yeah but it's pretty baller if he posts 4 town names lol
zack
Sunbae
Newcomb
nebjiamn
cuthillius
Raskolnikov
Montmorency
EnderWiggin
roro__b
katze
Sleep
Cape90
hollowkatt
How likely is it both wolves in the bottom section? Gotta say I'm kind of going over various pairs of them in my head and none of them kind of intuitively click as "ah yes this makes the game make perfect sense."
Could there have been a ladd busser? Ehhhhhhh.
nebjiamn
04-24-2022, 18:35
but seriously, whats the point of the stalker?
:shrug:
i'll help benneh and then go afk for the next 24ish hours
v
mont
benneh
ladd
sleep
i don't like ender's way of posting (almost all of his posts are answer to other quotes and in last page he answered newcomb's post which was the last one and then went back to answer cuth's whose post was before and gave me "posting just to post" vibes). Both of these things are >rand w ime
for context:
i'll yolo a sunbae w read (you'll do amazing in champs tho! genuinely)
This one kek
zack
Sunbae
Newcomb
nebjiamn
cuthillius
Raskolnikov
Montmorency
EnderWiggin
roro__b
katze
Sleep
Cape90
hollowkatt
How likely is it both wolves in the bottom section? Gotta say I'm kind of going over various pairs of them in my head and none of them kind of intuitively click as "ah yes this makes the game make perfect sense."
Could there have been a ladd busser? Ehhhhhhh.
This list is interdasting tbh
nebjiamn
04-24-2022, 18:39
zack
Sunbae
Newcomb
nebjiamn
cuthillius
Raskolnikov
Montmorency
EnderWiggin
roro__b
katze
Sleep
Cape90
hollowkatt
How likely is it both wolves in the bottom section? Gotta say I'm kind of going over various pairs of them in my head and none of them kind of intuitively click as "ah yes this makes the game make perfect sense."
Could there have been a ladd busser? Ehhhhhhh.
i think katze looks better from having pushed for the dolby bomb. i guess she can't know that csargo would actually do it but /shrug
if there's a busser on the ladd wagon i'm inclined to think its cuth over rask/monty but that doesn't feel great
rather than world build, how do you rank people in that bottom section from villagery to wolfy (assuming you haven't already ordered them as such)
hollowkatt
04-24-2022, 18:41
Dobby Why are you town?
Like what's your claim to fame here
i think katze looks better from having pushed for the dolby bomb. i guess she can't know that csargo would actually do it but /shrug
if there's a busser on the ladd wagon i'm inclined to think its cuth over rask/monty but that doesn't feel great
rather than world build, how do you rank people in that bottom section from villagery to wolfy (assuming you haven't already ordered them as such)
Ehh, I can't give much if any credit for calling for the shot. If you're a wolf with dolby there you know that slot's never endgaming. Like, once dolby did their catchup posts and then dipped, there was no giant case against them, just a mutual understanding that that slot was probably a wolf and was definitely gonna get PoE'd. You knew it, I knew it, everyone knew it.
Ordering the last part of that list is something I'm gonna work on more broadly but don't want to over-focus on right now. You could flip ender and HK for sure though.
Idk I'd tend to think cuth is like the least likely bussers of those 3 just because outside of being on that wagon cuth has felt actually engaged and participating in the game, whereas the other two haven't. Why does cuth stand out to you there?
Dobby Why are you town?
Like what's your claim to fame here
Can I throw it back at you and ask what things could point towards me being town if you like squint or whatever if you can't find anything? Halp me get into your head
I'm really happy with the way I've played this game. Most of my posts have been to try and like see what people's motivations are to doing what they do, howuch solving they're doing etc. And I'm not playing it safe, I think I'm pretty good at imitating toengame as wolf so it's hard for me to point at anything that stands out really because if there was something I'd actively work on removing that difference tbh, but I really want to say I know what to do as wolf, to look towny. I kinda know how to post to be safe enough that I'm consistently middle of the pack so I can get to endgame without it looking weird etc.
I also believe in the cases I've made, I've reevaluate a lot of my reads and actually followed up on the things I've written and I think my genuine will to solve is showing rather than it just being.. faked?
Idk it's not an easy question to answer and it kinda sounds like I'm honking my own horn here but just trying to keep it as real and honest as possible
Raskolnikov
04-24-2022, 18:56
I was thinking the interaction with Dolby after Dolby died making it look like Rask didnt realize that Dolby was dead (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829761&viewfull=1#post2053829761).
but we could go with that too i suppose
that's correct lmao. I just read it. GG Dolby.
sleep is spot on too (I am not his partner lol). I think both of you are town from the ways you read my intereaction with Monstr/Dolby and figured what was going on.
nebjiamn
04-24-2022, 18:58
Ehh, I can't give much if any credit for calling for the shot. If you're a wolf with dolby there you know that slot's never endgaming. Like, once dolby did their catchup posts and then dipped, there was no giant case against them, just a mutual understanding that that slot was probably a wolf and was definitely gonna get PoE'd. You knew it, I knew it, everyone knew it.
Ordering the last part of that list is something I'm gonna work on more broadly but don't want to over-focus on right now. You could flip ender and HK for sure though.
Idk I'd tend to think cuth is like the least likely bussers of those 3 just because outside of being on that wagon cuth has felt actually engaged and participating in the game, whereas the other two haven't. Why does cuth stand out to you there?
rask doesn't make sense. he's the one who set monstr off. he also doesn't vote you at eod yesterday. i'd have to re-read, but i'm not sure he ever even considered you in the flash of the last 10-20 minutes and i don't recall, but i'm not sure he boxed himself in with a v read on you either? i think that's weird for w!rask to do in a world where you are a villager OR a wolf considering ladd's role. surely he just votes you instead of his partner?
I guess i'll temper that a bit because a n3 sorc isn't as strong as a vig or anything, but i still just think w!rask kills you over ladd there
rask doesn't make sense. he's the one who set monstr off. he also doesn't vote you at eod yesterday. i'd have to re-read, but i'm not sure he ever even considered you in the flash of the last 10-20 minutes and i don't recall, but i'm not sure he boxed himself in with a v read on you either? i think that's weird for w!rask to do in a world where you are a villager OR a wolf considering ladd's role. surely he just votes you instead of his partner?
I guess i'll temper that a bit because a n3 sorc isn't as strong as a vig or anything, but i still just think w!rask kills you over ladd there
Unless they had disagreements in wolfchat as well :dizzy2:
nebjiamn
04-24-2022, 19:05
rask doesn't make sense. he's the one who set monstr off. he also doesn't vote you at eod yesterday. i'd have to re-read, but i'm not sure he ever even considered you in the flash of the last 10-20 minutes and i don't recall, but i'm not sure he boxed himself in with a v read on you either? i think that's weird for w!rask to do in a world where you are a villager OR a wolf considering ladd's role. surely he just votes you instead of his partner?
I guess i'll temper that a bit because a n3 sorc isn't as strong as a vig or anything, but i still just think w!rask kills you over ladd there
mont i don't think has been out of tune with the game, just low volume initially and he seems to just read the game differently than others? ladd opting to just shield him doesn't feel like a partner shield to me as i expressed a few posts earlier.
cuth i could see most of the 3 just because of some weird interactions between him and ladd. e.g. ladd commenting how cuth finally makes sense to him and cuth responding that ladd being able to understand him when it doesnt even make sense in cuth's head appears slightly manufactured to me but its not super strong. its just the strongest of those 3 IF there is a busser.
I think you already mentioned its odd for wolves to kill on that wagon if it isn't already clear because this poses trouble for wolves down the line potentially when people don't die. i guess that can also be tempered knowing the wolves will have to kill the PRs at some point but /shrug. this is more a thought experiment than anything else since I do think we prob have the last two wolves in the non-ladd voters.
I just really want to bjeve in my cuth read lol
I think you already mentioned its odd for wolves to kill on that wagon if it isn't already clear because this poses trouble for wolves down the line potentially when people don't die. i guess that can also be tempered knowing the wolves will have to kill the PRs at some point but /shrug. this is more a thought experiment than anything else since I do think we prob have the last two wolves in the non-ladd voters.
Mm I didn't think of that, good point.
But yeah this is just thought experiment stuff; I've already talked about why rask specifically isn't likely.
Vote: Ladd
https://i.imgur.com/EeYtIBY.jpg
vote: ladd
Hm these are the lqst two votes on ladd
I kinda want to say it looks good for both of them but I'd 100% make that vote if I were wolf
Anyone who's seen me wolf should know that (especially since ladd was doomed anyway) so idk if that's something either of them would do but worth thinking about
v
Sunbae
ladd voters
Raskolnikov
cuthillius
Montmorency
villagery and/or spew
zack
EnderWiggin
katze
Sleep
some good, some bad
roro__b
Newcomb
Cape90
hollowkatt
a very quick and rough ordering of where i'm at currently. not ordered within tiers i just moved ppl around in notepad til their clumps made sense
how often does that bottom 4 list contain 2 wolves? I could see that a good amount tbh. how often does that bottom 4 list contain 2 wolves that fit with ladd and monstr/dolby? idk yet. i think newcomb and dobby are slightly less possible with ladd for thin reasons. HK may be slightly less possible with monstr/dolby?
Cape i'm not sure. i haven't re-read him yet and i owe that still so this is mostly just a carryover read on him at this point
I'm literally an innocent child
Vote: Ladd
https://i.imgur.com/EeYtIBY.jpg
I'm literally an innocent child
peepee poopoo
Raskolnikov
04-24-2022, 19:49
I am changing my mind on Benneh. I am slow, bear with me.
I'm literally an innocent child
Y tho
Raskolnikov
04-24-2022, 19:51
vote: Ender
i think katze looks better from having pushed for the dolby bomb. i guess she can't know that csargo would actually do it but /shrug
if there's a busser on the ladd wagon i'm inclined to think its cuth over rask/monty but that doesn't feel great
rather than world build, how do you rank people in that bottom section from villagery to wolfy (assuming you haven't already ordered them as such)
I don't think she should get any credit for that
she was town reading for an imo really weak/stretchy reason, then switched after sunbae and I claimed and were clearly pushing for dolby (both clears voting him, clear bomb target, obvious dead meat at that point)
nebjiamn
04-24-2022, 19:54
I'm literally an innocent child
uwu
(Yea, I realized that shortly after making this post)
nebjiamn
04-24-2022, 20:02
I don't think she should get any credit for that
she was town reading for an imo really weak/stretchy reason, then switched after sunbae and I claimed and were clearly pushing for dolby (both clears voting him, clear bomb target, obvious dead meat at that point)
mm fair enough. i kinda skimmed last night's posts after waking up today hence me missing your claim post and a few other things
Raskolnikov
04-24-2022, 20:03
I think sleep is villa, newcomb too. I had these slots linked to katze smh but can't remember why lol. If someone can help me.
Raskolnikov
04-24-2022, 20:14
:smash:: ladd, Dolby
:thumbsup:: Winston, Csargoat
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
:2thumbsup:: Raskol, cuth, zack, sleep, newcomb, Sunbae
:bow:: monty, dobby, Cape, Benneh
:inquisitive:: katze, HK
:whip:: Ender
I won't take questions about this.
Raskolnikov
04-24-2022, 20:21
actually thinking katze/HK isn't a thing because of their disagreement in meta reading me prior to Dolby's flip (I think HK shaded me prior to it?)
Raskolnikov
04-24-2022, 20:27
actually rereading the end of HK's iso it feels like he was leaning wolf on me and changed his mind after Dolby's flip. not really helping though lol. I really got the idea he was in to shade me though before that but maybe I am tinfoiling or he was.
Raskolnikov
04-24-2022, 20:28
vote: dolby
my bones say this is the chop
oh, HK is town. good good.
Raskolnikov
04-24-2022, 20:29
lol me. I am down to katze and Ender. I'll let that marinate
I also might be tunneled on ho but I feel like I've been trying to evaluate the slot fairly but there's still things that just feel bad/wolfy and don't make sense that I don't just want to let go
Despite that dolby vote
Raskolnikov
04-24-2022, 20:31
I wants a bomb
who do u want to take with you?
who do u want to take with you?
I don't know yet tbh, I'm just hanging out in thread without having read back qnd it's hard to evolve my reads this way, I want to do that on pc and Dip into my notes and that's not happening here on phone tbh
I still want more ppl to look at hk and see if my stuff on him make sense
Who Posted?
Posts 154
katze
Posts 140
zack
Posts 136
nebjiamn
Posts 127
Sleep
Posts 111
Winston Hughes
Posts 110
Sunbae
Posts 103
EnderWiggin
Posts 100
Cuthillius
Posts 89
Newcomb
Posts 85
Cape90
Posts 74
Dobby
Posts 73
Raskolnikov
Posts 53
ladd
Posts 49
hollowkatt
Posts 45
Csargo
Posts 36
Monstrdude
Posts 27
Montmorency
Posts 25
Visor
Posts 12
Dolby
Posts 1
GeneralHankerchief
Sbpbwee
I mean katze is capable of top posting as wolf
I feel like I post constantly but I'm always lower half of Post count
Lolme maybe I shouldn't but I can't help but read into a few of those (both good and bad) kek
hi
ive been having a really bad morning/day so im probably not going to be around but uhm
flip acknowledged, my read there was p bad, zack is absolutely correct that part of me turning around on it was due to the two clears showing distaste in that slot and me realizing that i was basically townreading the entire playerlist to some extent; not gonna defend that
ill probably check in again tomorrow to figure out where my head is at wrt the game (irl)
hi
ive been having a really bad morning/day so im probably not going to be around but uhm
flip acknowledged, my read there was p bad, zack is absolutely correct that part of me turning around on it was due to the two clears showing distaste in that slot and me realizing that i was basically townreading the entire playerlist to some extent; not gonna defend that
ill probably check in again tomorrow to figure out where my head is at wrt the game (irl)
Take care fren
Unless they had disagreements in wolfchat as well :dizzy2:
the thought of that happening is darkest timeline stuff that i dont really want to contemplate wrt rask in particular right now. but im also cognizant of the fact its entirely possible if monstrs heart was not in the game hed ask to be bussed. so im reticent to give credit to those who were pushing him on day 1
or at least assign towniness solely based on that
the thought of that happening is darkest timeline stuff that i dont really want to contemplate wrt rask in particular right now. but im also cognizant of the fact its entirely possible if monstrs heart was not in the game hed ask to be bussed. so im reticent to give credit to those who were pushing him on day 1
Yeah I don't really want to have that play into any reads tbh lol
This one!
ugh I really feel good about sleep being town
I swear if sleep is mafia this game
ugh I really feel good about sleep being town
I swear if sleep is mafia this game
:inquisitive:
Sunbae
Cuth
Sleep
V/v/v imo
Maaaaaybe zack
when it comes to this list Dobby
In short, I don't think Sleep is thought processing like wolf would in their shoes. From what I have seen, I believe their thoughts come naturally
when it comes to this list Dobby
I know but that post just seemed weh the way you wrote it lol
Fwiw I do agree sleep looks towny and I prolly won't solve the game based on that list, was just an interesting one coming from a flipped wolf
I have no read on Ladd but probably should come up with something. Cuth I think can be town, Monstr I think can be a wolf. Mostly b/c his ISO sucks a lot and by sucks a lot I mean it is entirely too short AND filled with things that read like they're spicy for the sake of being spicy, not actually things he believes in.
Think this is a decent look for HK; the self awareness to point out the lack of read on a partner in the same sentence you're distancing from a second partner is a little much to imagine as being a real thing.
Hm this a villagy post
Not sure how much I want to read into this but the flat response to sleep's big wall is like... ehh I was gonna say +villa for sleep. Maybe it is a little. I'm just not sure how much I should read into any of monstr's posts given what happened. Like you can't really ascribe normal wolf agenda/valuation/thinking to someone to blew up like that and clearly had some stuff going on.
I've gone back and forth on sunbae a fair bit this game but ultimately I think that sunbae as a villager is much more likely to post giant swathes of stream-of-consciousness type posts that just sort of explain what he's feeling at any given moment in the the thread. Contrast this to him as a wolf where I'm pretty sure he's more liable to just say whatever random crap gets any villager launched.
I liked cuthilius' exchange saying that newcomb had a rather tepid take, thought it was kind of bold
Sleep's last post was good + I liked the incredulity that they gave when they came right back at me for saying their posts were wolfy. I mean sure a wolf could easily say "no I don't see why you think that's wolfy" but I feel like most wolves actually have a level of awareness of their posts that makes them more inclined to react to someone saying "you're wolfy" with "yea ok"
Zack I feel like generally tries to ignore me as a wolf but that's like a super thin read
I do feel like this is +v for sleep. Given you have a flipped wolf talking about a confirmed v in Sunbae here, just like, the way he explains it, the length of the paragraph, the cadence of it, is very similar to what he does in the 3rd paragraph for sleep.
talk to me about this?
the ender and ladd back and forth never had any real bite to it imo, I think it was just distancing/theater. They both found excuses to move off to other targets which they pushed much harder (ladd --> sleep, ender --> newcomb).
I think newcomb is probably a villager, in which case ender looks pretty bad. Him and ladd sussed each other, but ender found a way to go super hard in the paint focusing on newcomb with a progression that didn't seem particularly believable to me.
Alive: (13/17)
1. zack
2. nebjiamn
3. cuthillius
6. Raskolnikov
7. Newcomb
9. EnderWiggin
10. Sunbae
11. Montmorency
12. roro__b
14. katze
15. Sleep
16. Cape90
17. hollowkatt
9. EnderWiggin
11. Montmorency
12. roro__b
14. katze
16. Cape90
17. hollowkatt
Zack, Sunbae - innocent children :dancinglock:
cuth, rask - not really worth considering today imo (especially rask with the monstr interactions)
benneh, newcomb, sleep - not very interested in going here today either :smoking:
monty, roro, cape, HK - possible wolves but not worth pursuing yet, non-trivial reasons to think they are town
katze - talked about this a little already, sunbae seemed to agree with this placement, some nice posts but some sketch stuff too, can't take them off the table :undecided:
ender - the person who is left and I don't think has been villagy, sorry cuth :deal:
ignore that second grouping of names with the numbers, I copied the playerlist and was eliminating names as I moved down, forgot to delete before posting
I really don't trust monty at all for the record
need more from him
the ender and ladd back and forth never had any real bite to it imo, I think it was just distancing/theater. They both found excuses to move off to other targets which they pushed much harder (ladd --> sleep, ender --> newcomb).
I think newcomb is probably a villager, in which case ender looks pretty bad. Him and ladd sussed each other, but ender found a way to go super hard in the paint focusing on newcomb with a progression that didn't seem particularly believable to me.
Alive: (13/17)
1. zack
2. nebjiamn
3. cuthillius
6. Raskolnikov
7. Newcomb
9. EnderWiggin
10. Sunbae
11. Montmorency
12. roro__b
14. katze
15. Sleep
16. Cape90
17. hollowkatt
9. EnderWiggin
11. Montmorency
12. roro__b
14. katze
16. Cape90
17. hollowkatt
Zack, Sunbae - innocent children :dancinglock:
cuth, rask - not really worth considering today imo (especially rask with the monstr interactions)
benneh, newcomb, sleep - not very interested in going here today either :smoking:
monty, roro, cape, HK - possible wolves but not worth pursuing yet, non-trivial reasons to think they are town
katze - talked about this a little already, sunbae seemed to agree with this placement, some nice posts but some sketch stuff too, can't take them off the table :undecided:
ender - the person who is left and I don't think has been villagy, sorry cuth :deal:
actually yes i agree with most of this (can i get a two worder on why you are IC because i prolly missed that unless it was a joke)
im clearly ic as well
cape i want to look into again, same with monty which is the one ive looked into the least. HK ive talked about. ender i had a lot of +es yesterday but i cant remember them today. Katze is a tough one tbh, i liked them in the newc thing but the rest of their posts have just existed and looked alright and i havent found anything thats stood out (i still have several pages ive just skipped reading that ill deal with tomorrow hopefully)
bruh
I claimed town backup and it has been mentioned ITT a bunch of times
Newcomb wagon - Ender/katze/Sleep - upper-null (Sleep might trend down, or lock clear if NC scum)
Sunbae upper-null
Dobby, Cape, HK, NC null
Zack, Csargo, Dolby lower-null
Nebbie scum
Cuth, I think I'll lock ya for a couple days, but not permanently given how you discussed ladd's slot throughout the day. Winston, Rask, you get a day pass, and probably a lock clear if NC is scum. Hopefully Star Trek II is reprising, except with only the good parts. It's hard to believe, but not a single one of you was in Star Trek II (though HK was probably aware of it, and he participated in the Mario 2 debacle).
Nebbie, I believe you could be the Mafia Stalker now.
Zack, are you sure you're not with Csargo? Although I do note that while I was slanking, ladd offered some kind of wack analysis about me being a "perfectly competent wolf" supposedly based on having read all my games or something - and you correctly identified this as townspewing me (see my walls).
It's is extremely likely that there was at least one other maf among the many protowagons around EOD, and potentially even among Newcomb or Rask. Overlooking D1 scum multiwagons has killed a successful town more than once in my relatively-recent experience. And with this many competing wagons, it's at least 95%, the details of which will always have to be guessed when forming plausible wagonomics associations moving forward.
@ both Zack and HK: Zack, in Mass Effect you hosted as Dolby was consensus scum-read and sacrificed (Logic sub). HK, you were town with me in Mario 2 when Dolby subbed in late onto a winning Mafia team and easily sealed the deal.
Figure out if he's clearable today pl0x.
Anyway, for doing all the things and ranking Zack/Ladd/Newcomb highly, Vote: Nebbie
Let the anointed please suicide Newcomb today, unless you're maf. It provides excellent info on Sleep, katze, Winston, and Rask at a minimum.
****
I expected Cuth to die, but OK.
lumps dolby in with two confirmed villas (me, csargo) and a probable one (benneh) then says to bomb newcomb and never really expands on nor pushes the dolby thing at all.
the section encouraging everyone to think the wagons were w/w/v seems more like agenda-pushing than a genuine thought? I mean he clears rask without even considering that rask was a wolf wagon, even though he spends a paragraph talking about multiple wolf wagons being probable and wants to bomb newcomb into the stone age.
the reason for voting benneh seems silly, me and newcomb hadn't even flipped, talk about jumping to conclusions.
worth noting monty shouldn't really be getting credit for ladd vote, he tried to unvote but it was past the deadline
he kinda just seems like a wolf to me? ~:handball:
lumps dolby in with two confirmed villas (me, csargo) and a probable one (benneh) then says to bomb newcomb and never really expands on nor pushes the dolby thing at all.
the section encouraging everyone to think the wagons were w/w/v seems more like agenda-pushing than a genuine thought? I mean he clears rask without even considering that rask was a wolf wagon, even though he spends a paragraph talking about multiple wolf wagons being probable and wants to bomb newcomb into the stone age.
the reason for voting benneh seems silly, me and newcomb hadn't even flipped, talk about jumping to conclusions.
worth noting monty shouldn't really be getting credit for ladd vote, he tried to unvote but it was past the deadline
he kinda just seems like a wolf to me? ~:handball:
without even considering that rask could have been a wolf wagon*
edited by way of post
I had Monstr lower-null.
That's where they belong, except the heroes of the day (Rask and Cuth).
like from monty's POV, rask was a wagon against ladd (wolf) and newcomb (who monty seems to think is a wolf) and even expressed he didn't want to vote ladd and was basically doing it out of survival. monty spent time encouraging everyone to consider the possibility of multiple wolves being wagoned
but monty just ... blithely clears rask?
seems like he knows rask is a villager and since rask voted ladd, monty wasn't considering that he wasn't really clear from an uninformed POV
the perspective doesn't add up iyam
:coffeenews:
bruh
I claimed town backup and it has been mentioned ITT a bunch of times
well i missed it bruh btu to be honest
poop.
im guessing sorcerer acts before mafia nk so you are basically just vt right
I'm not even sure why he's so insistent on bombing Newcomb and him being a wolf, it's not really explained other than "It's is extremely likely that there was at least one other maf among the many protowagons around EOD" unless I missed it. This read doesn't seem developed, more like latching onto the thread temperature and anticipating the direction it would be headed to encourage town to kill a villager.
I have no reason to think Ender and Monty can't be teamed off the top of my head, I don't think Newcomb listed them in his not w/w section either.
Oh yeah this was gonna be part of that too, just pretend those comments are fleshed out into appropriately Newcomb(TM) sounding sentences.
Rough list of antialignments:
Zack/Ender - early fluidity
Sunbae/Zack - wild treatment of me if w/w/w with ladd; careful respect+suspect type posts of each other early D1
Dobby/Sleep - dobby careful treatment + extra detail interacting with cape read, 116
Ender/HK - early antagonism didn't feel fake
Sunbae/HK - 238, timing
Cape/Rask - cape confusing rask for winston with the winston v flip
nope.
feels weird when these posts are spread out over 40+ minutes but no one else is posting so it looks like I'm just being a spammer, gonna tap out for a bit lol
liking the monty stuff tbh, big i fture
well i missed it bruh btu to be honest
poop.
im guessing sorcerer acts before mafia nk so you are basically just vt right
VT? No. I am an innocent child. :square:
feels weird when these posts are spread out over 40+ minutes but no one else is posting so it looks like I'm just being a spammer, gonna tap out for a bit lol
ive been lurking but ive kind of just been watching
i had written stuff on ender, honestly in my heart it did not feel like w/w interactions with ladd, i cant see it the way you do
but he has had one post since sod, and it was this:
I don't have a vest and I am sad.
and like...i dont want to necessarily take absence as a sign of guilt because people can have stuff going on that we have no idea about
but its kind of ??? to me
also ladd started shaded me after my votes on d1 had been ender and monty
:creep:
ender said he had a migraine, I don't think his absence is alignment-related.
he's aussie i believe, should probably be around before too long if he's feeling better (~:grouphug:, also ~:grouphug: to katze since I didn't respond to that earlier)
ender said he had a migraine, I don't think his absence is alignment-related.
he's aussie i believe, should probably be around before too long if he's feeling better (~:grouphug:, also ~:grouphug: to katze since I didn't respond to that earlier)
ah ok
yeah just kind of...want to hear from him today
Driving by to just say csargoat. Hope you were cool with being chosen and you did great.
I've read the stuff today. Going to digest everything and drop back in overnight to give my general headspace for the game.
My biggest thought as of this moment is that nothing in this game that we've learned has surprised me. I thought Zack was a villager, he's now clear. I thought csargo was a villager and he crushed the vest. I thought Monstr was a wolf and Dolby's catch up was weak and the slot flipped wolf. I thought Ladd was wolfy and he flipped wolf. So I think the best course of action is to just continue on making reads based on who is trying to solve the game vs who is just trying to force things until something makes us think the game is more difficult than that.
It gets very easy in these games to start leveling yourself and expect the wolves to be playing at a 400IQ with a bunch of master plans and keep you from trusting anyone. Yet most often these games just result in "the list is full of great villagers and the villagers make themselves obvious enough that the game can get poe'd pretty cleanly".
Just keep it simple baby.
Benneh's post #42 I took as a meme but I guess it worked to get some people into the game?
Sunbae calling themselves bad in #47 is a lie
ladd entering the game with #63 where he pops out a list of 5 reads is pretty uh let's call it impressive but my gut is poking at me to tell you i slight w lean that because it's... pretty much based on rvs stuff and dishing out reads or even a list like that feels more like "i should be in character so let me do this yeeeee". But yeah i blame my gut for this one.
EnderWiggins post #69 (nice) also had me thinking, because it's talking about how wolves usually behave early on but i feel like it's only situationally applicable and very much a "this is the consensus thought on how wolves play" but also, in a playerlist like this, pretty much everyone can just play the system and statements like that just end up being... words tbh.
The ladd read I think looks good for dobby. The "in character" bit especially is just a bit pointed to say to your partner I think.
Our approach now should be focused on clean up.
We have 4 known villagers and 2 known wolves, one of which was wolf KP. Let's work through various worlds, potential pairs, anti-allied people, and squeeze em out.
And we're well on our way to doing that already. Posting today has been very good for the most part.
EnderWiggin
04-25-2022, 01:22
Welcome to your new and improved Ender, Version.2:
* Now with less migraines.
I'm gonna heads up that I have read very little of D2 and my focus will be catching up on that for the next... Few hours.
hollowkatt
04-25-2022, 02:07
Can I throw it back at you and ask what things could point towards me being town if you like squint or whatever if you can't find anything? Halp me get into your head
I'm really happy with the way I've played this game. Most of my posts have been to try and like see what people's motivations are to doing what they do, howuch solving they're doing etc. And I'm not playing it safe, I think I'm pretty good at imitating toengame as wolf so it's hard for me to point at anything that stands out really because if there was something I'd actively work on removing that difference tbh, but I really want to say I know what to do as wolf, to look towny. I kinda know how to post to be safe enough that I'm consistently middle of the pack so I can get to endgame without it looking weird etc.
I also believe in the cases I've made, I've reevaluate a lot of my reads and actually followed up on the things I've written and I think my genuine will to solve is showing rather than it just being.. faked?
Idk it's not an easy question to answer and it kinda sounds like I'm honking my own horn here but just trying to keep it as real and honest as possible
Why Dobby could be town, an exercise in expanding my mind:
1. It's pretty early to sus on Ladd here but Dobby does it. No wolf at this point is super concerned with positioning nor is there any kind of indication that Ladd could potentially be at risk here. While it's a safe position for a wolf to take, drawing attention to the position by including it as one of only four stated positions I think is risky. Ladd would need to go over quickly (basically D1) for the read to not look like TMI
Benneh's post #42 I took as a meme but I guess it worked to get some people into the game?
Sunbae calling themselves bad in #47 is a lie
ladd entering the game with #63 where he pops out a list of 5 reads is pretty uh let's call it impressive but my gut is poking at me to tell you i slight w lean that because it's... pretty much based on rvs stuff and dishing out reads or even a list like that feels more like "i should be in character so let me do this yeeeee". But yeah i blame my gut for this one.
EnderWiggins post #69 (nice) also had me thinking, because it's talking about how wolves usually behave early on but i feel like it's only situationally applicable and very much a "this is the consensus thought on how wolves play" but also, in a playerlist like this, pretty much everyone can just play the system and statements like that just end up being... words tbh.
unfortunately this is it.
I've gone through the rest of your ISO and frankly I'd kill you for it. It's not super great. Like the post I'm replying to and the post I quoted above are your towniest posts to me. The rest are kinda meh with quite a few "wtf" thrown in there, specifically when addressing me/your read on me.
Like these:
Vote: Hollowkatt
i still like hk
can you point me to why you don't?
(and apologies for my slackness if you already did)
I had some posts but am on phone now and out so won't til eod, but generally the biggest feeling of "I don't believe that this is what he believes" in the game
so it's mostly gut?
No, I wrote a pretty extensive post about the type of reasoning he used and while I haven't pointed out other specific posts to nit full the thread with my catchup but it's been a general ah I don't like this tbh
Yeah I can. He feels stilted, like his content is forced, and that he's struggling to get into the groove of the game.
I tend to ego solve and compare what people are doing to what I'd be doing in their positions. This would tangentially apply to cape as well tbh:
If I were a wolf in this player list I'd be extremely concerned with making the towniest posts I could make and trying to fit in with the overall flow of the game so as not to get caught out immediately. Unfortunately when I do that I tend to be really obvs a wolf as I'm basically trying too hard. Ender (and Cape) feel like they're trying too hard.
The downside to ego solving is that other people are not me (I know, this is a shocking revelation) and don't necessarily react to things the same way I would. This isn't stopping me from making the read.
And before someone asks, my "no chop" vote is totally legit. This is a player list I am going to struggle to read and seeing who dies over night if we don't chop anyone might help in solving. Otherwise I'm likely going to just sheep someone I town read that I perceive is smarter than I am, or be on some weird vanity wagon at the end of the day.
So I figured I'd throw out not chopping as an option, see what people think of that, and go from there.
and yeah I'm being serious
my thoughts on this is also a tough thing to explain but i feel like there's actually some weight to it.
it's easy to get like, tunnelled in your approach of reading someone, almost confbiasing. Like. Okay, first thing i think when i read ender's post is just this, he does seem to try to force out content, and then i can easily poop out words that add to the initial case i made to make it have some weight to it. This type of read is also... Easily fakeable. It's a tool i use as a wolf, because it's an easy way to play as mafia that looks really towny, and like you've done WORK, and it's a really hard thing to identify as wolfy and push. I feel like this whole post smells of that kind of thing. Add to it the last segment which kind of is a bit hedgy to cover for eventualities where Ender who based on what i've seen now, might very well be an early chop.
So yeah my thoughts on Ender aorn if i'm trying to decide if he's faking it or it's a personality/style of playing thing, is that it seems genuine enough for now and because of it being impossible (unless you know him really well, which i don't but also lolmeta) to judge which one it is, it's also something that a legit read shouldn't be based on. And the read HK is making here is making me :fry: way more tbh.
im not gonna tldr that because it was hard enough to word and prolly still doesnt make sense.
I think monstr is fairly clearly town (i isod him out of curiosity ofc) but i dont want to talk any more about him unless he comes back or smth.
I left the bold in there b/c I have no idea how you arrive at that conclusion, but the main thing I want to point out are your thoughts on my post here. It's nothing but word salad designed to look smart while not actually saying anything other than, in a nut shell, "this is a post I dobby can make as a wolf therefore it can be from a wolf"
And this is the "extensive post about my reasoning" that you've referenced above
i kinda wanna shield sleep
hk and rask are good wagons unless something has majorly changed. csargo idk
Vote: raskolnikov
sorcerer target newcomb better, even ladd tbh
i really dont want either ladd or newc but i prefer ladd
None of these posts are good tbh. newcomb was townie enough that he really shouldn't have been run up at all. Raskol sure, I'll buy that. I thought Rask had wolf potential headed into today as well. I think I've been obvs town, your mileage varies.
I feel like the last post quoted here is something I see quite a bit from wolves in general. Basically taking the position of "I don't really want either of these wagons but if I have to choose I'll take X" where X more often than not is a partner.
Lmao wait was dolby wolf
I was pretty sure monstr wouldn't play like that as wolf but I'm also bad at this game, wp csargo
dolby flips wolf, I put pressure on monstr D1, you literally do not acknowledge that pressure nor address how I could be partnered with either dolby (who said I could be town) / monstr (who did not acknowledge my existence).
There's also this, which is just not true:
I saw a comment last night too from hk about me "not playing" or something which is kinda lol, Day 2 I was pretty much top posting, it's a weird approach from the one I pushed the hardest, I wasn't really discrete about it
And the questions about my eod (yes I ctrl f my name because why not), are like, I preferred hk, couldn't get it through, tried rask because those are prolly the two that have pinged me the most - didn't work. If it was between ladd and newcomb I preferred ladd (I want to write by far but that would prolly be an exaggeration, I didn't reflect upon which of those two I wanted dead until the wagons became just those two ppl)
I think benneh is prolly still my top town, and from what I've skimmed cuth looks even better now imo
Idk what else for now, from what I've skimmed I don't think my reads have changed.hugely
zack peepee poopoo
We're in D2 currently, you're not top posting. You weren't top posting D1. Even by vv lax definitions of top posting you're still (checks the ISO list) in the bottom half of post counts. It's whatever though, I don't expect total accuracy, just thought this was interesting to point out.
Then today is just a continuation of yesterday
I still think my case on hk is like one of the most hello this is just a wolf, in the game, and really think more people should look at that
Might as well do this again
Vote: hollowkatt
Imma go visit grandma and stuff now, bai
Where's re-evaluations? Where's "maybe I'm wrong, I was wrong on monstr/dolby, I didn't want to participate in Ladd and that was wrong, maybe my reads aren't the greatest and I should stop and think"?
I have more respect for your game than to assume you're lost townie here basically.
anyways, vote: dobby might as well put my money where my mouth is.
EnderWiggin
04-25-2022, 02:14
And once that questioning started, Ender shifted me really far down the list with some caveat of whatever my explanation was pending.
My response was ?I'm not doing that.?, the pressure on me just kind of dissipated, and then Ender said something like I was a villager and they were trying to trap me or goad me into making up and excuse as a wolf while ?lol no? was the answer ?they were hoping for?.
It feels slimy and opportunistic to me.
Okay I'm going to break this out of my long catchup post because I want to address this.
1. I point out multiple times during D1 that wolves tend to overexplain early because they feel the need to justify their reads.
If you look in my ISO I'm 90% sure I've vocalised this at least twice on D1. Because while it's not an 100% read, if I poke where the overexplanations are it's usually a good start. (Eventually this will be a dead read but it hasn't proven yet.)
With you I approached a very weird sequence as if I sussed it heavily and said "If you don't have an explanation", this is kind of a pressure that wolves respond badly to because, as a good old player once said, "Inconsistency is the goblin of wolfy minds." Wolves hate being inconsistent in their attempts to play unless they're good enough to understand that.
2. Why is pressuring someone to give an answer when you don't expect them to have one "slimy and opportunistic"? If you're talking about the way it reacted to the content around you, well sure you can sus me for that but I ain't got control of that so meh.
I don't think it's a bad play.
In fact I think it's a good play. And I'll defend that.
Cuth you've had a couple strong reads that I don't really grasp the core of. Cape and Ender both being strong v for you.
Where does that strength come from? I can ask in a different way if you want, I know that's kind of a broad way of asking.
EnderWiggin
04-25-2022, 02:47
#1149 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829454&viewfull=1#post2053829454)
I actually like this post. Bar the mild "Oh Cuth didn't die?" derptell which feels fake. But also wagon position on Ladd was probably good?
I kinda like Sleep's daystart in general.
#1171 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829476&viewfull=1#post2053829476)
I'm in confbias territory now but like, this post is a post I can see wolf!Newcomb making after not thinking Ladd was in danger at EOD and then the flashwagon on his partner appears.
-- I'm going to point out that it looks like Dolby entered today to try and pocket me.
#1205 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829510&viewfull=1#post2053829510)
As of this post I'm pretty sure Neb/NC are unpaired.
#1210 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829515&viewfull=1#post2053829515)
I'll actually have to check this after I'm done catching up. If Zack is right and Ladd really didn't defend Newc at all and WAS around after I dropped case and pushed, it might actually be signs pointing in the "I'm wrong" direction.
#1230 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829535&viewfull=1#post2053829535)
If I am wrong on Newc is this the angle that I was pocketed at? (Talking about Sleep not Zack)
#1233 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829538&viewfull=1#post2053829538)
Ladd/Sleep/HK/? =P
#1236 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829541&viewfull=1#post2053829541)
Neb comes to mind immediately, I'd have to think about this more for other names.
#1247 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829552&viewfull=1#post2053829552)
If it's Cape and Newc as the other two wolves this post becomes more hilarious. (Both unflipped wolves basically templated the same opener today.)
Kinda want to unpair Cape/Neb for 1257/1258
#1260 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829565&viewfull=1#post2053829565)
Is it a bad read if I call this a town post? Legit seems to be dismissive/annoyed at Dolby before he flipped. Might be a bad read but I'm actually pretty confident in it.
1263/1264 are mildly wolf leaning IMO for Neb
#1272 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829577&viewfull=1#post2053829577)
In my defense I hadn't seen your post saying the same thing yet =P
#1281 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829586&viewfull=1#post2053829586)
I think this post never comes from w/v worlds for Newc/Neb. Or not w!Newcomb/V!Neb worlds. If Newcomb flips red I am willing to bet anything that Neb flips red too.
#1284 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829589&viewfull=1#post2053829589)
That post is NAI. I stand by the reads I do use.
Is it bad that I read Newc lashing out at Zack as possibly towny? Probably yes.
#1330 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829636&viewfull=1#post2053829636)
This is actually a mildly convincing take lmao.
#1411 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829719&viewfull=1#post2053829719)
This is a pretty ballsy post for a wolf to make tbh. I kinda like it.
#1426 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829735&viewfull=1#post2053829735)
Dare I say this looks good for Newcomb? Dare I?
Rask's catchup is meh but also probably not AI.
Dobby's catchup is kinda meh. Also I believe Rask's "Oh Dolby is mafia" more than Dobby's.
I like Benneh's reads in the next sequence (Not at all because he calls me town what are you talking about)
#1500 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829830&viewfull=1#post2053829830)
Derp tell denied.
The rest I'm kinda vagueish on as my brain is struggling to keep going.
I didn't see anything particularly AI but need to dig into the posting a bit more.
--
Thus concludes my lacklustre wall of returns.
EnderWiggin
04-25-2022, 02:49
Sleep
I had a migraine yesterday. Expect me to be around and posting today.
I'll tell you straight up that if you look at any game I've played on this site or others then you'll find I have no issues posting no matter my alignment. If I'm out of thread it is always due to irl. Yesterday thinking was painful, so I spent 90% of the day in bed.
Today you'll have me around intermittently.
Sleep
I had a migraine yesterday. Expect me to be around and posting today.
I'll tell you straight up that if you look at any game I've played on this site or others then you'll find I have no issues posting no matter my alignment. If I'm out of thread it is always due to irl. Yesterday thinking was painful, so I spent 90% of the day in bed.
Today you'll have me around intermittently.
yeah i was just confused, glad to hear you're feeling better
EnderWiggin
04-25-2022, 03:08
yeah i was just confused, glad to hear you're feeling better
I'm glad I'm feeling better too =P
nebjiamn
04-25-2022, 03:20
#1149 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829454&viewfull=1#post2053829454)
I actually like this post. Bar the mild "Oh Cuth didn't die?" derptell which feels fake. But also wagon position on Ladd was probably good?
I kinda like Sleep's daystart in general.
#1171 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829476&viewfull=1#post2053829476)
I'm in confbias territory now but like, this post is a post I can see wolf!Newcomb making after not thinking Ladd was in danger at EOD and then the flashwagon on his partner appears.
-- I'm going to point out that it looks like Dolby entered today to try and pocket me.
#1205 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829510&viewfull=1#post2053829510)
As of this post I'm pretty sure Neb/NC are unpaired.
#1210 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829515&viewfull=1#post2053829515)
I'll actually have to check this after I'm done catching up. If Zack is right and Ladd really didn't defend Newc at all and WAS around after I dropped case and pushed, it might actually be signs pointing in the "I'm wrong" direction.
#1230 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829535&viewfull=1#post2053829535)
If I am wrong on Newc is this the angle that I was pocketed at? (Talking about Sleep not Zack)
#1233 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829538&viewfull=1#post2053829538)
Ladd/Sleep/HK/? =P
#1236 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829541&viewfull=1#post2053829541)
Neb comes to mind immediately, I'd have to think about this more for other names.
#1247 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829552&viewfull=1#post2053829552)
If it's Cape and Newc as the other two wolves this post becomes more hilarious. (Both unflipped wolves basically templated the same opener today.)
Kinda want to unpair Cape/Neb for 1257/1258
#1260 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829565&viewfull=1#post2053829565)
Is it a bad read if I call this a town post? Legit seems to be dismissive/annoyed at Dolby before he flipped. Might be a bad read but I'm actually pretty confident in it.
1263/1264 are mildly wolf leaning IMO for Neb
#1272 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829577&viewfull=1#post2053829577)
In my defense I hadn't seen your post saying the same thing yet =P
#1281 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829586&viewfull=1#post2053829586)
I think this post never comes from w/v worlds for Newc/Neb. Or not w!Newcomb/V!Neb worlds. If Newcomb flips red I am willing to bet anything that Neb flips red too.
#1284 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829589&viewfull=1#post2053829589)
That post is NAI. I stand by the reads I do use.
Is it bad that I read Newc lashing out at Zack as possibly towny? Probably yes.
#1330 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829636&viewfull=1#post2053829636)
This is actually a mildly convincing take lmao.
#1411 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829719&viewfull=1#post2053829719)
This is a pretty ballsy post for a wolf to make tbh. I kinda like it.
#1426 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829735&viewfull=1#post2053829735)
Dare I say this looks good for Newcomb? Dare I?
Rask's catchup is meh but also probably not AI.
Dobby's catchup is kinda meh. Also I believe Rask's "Oh Dolby is mafia" more than Dobby's.
I like Benneh's reads in the next sequence (Not at all because he calls me town what are you talking about)
#1500 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829830&viewfull=1#post2053829830)
Derp tell denied.
The rest I'm kinda vagueish on as my brain is struggling to keep going.
I didn't see anything particularly AI but need to dig into the posting a bit more.
--
Thus concludes my lacklustre wall of returns.
curious how you go from “newc and neb are unpaired” into me making the most sense on a newc/Dolby team into me and newc being w/w in all worlds where newc flips red?
I don’t see progression for it in the post so forgive me for the boring self-centered questions
#1149 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829454&viewfull=1#post2053829454)
I actually like this post. Bar the mild "Oh Cuth didn't die?" derptell which feels fake. But also wagon position on Ladd was probably good?
You say you like the post without explanation and then criticize part of it as feeling fake. Why do you like the post?
What do you think of Monty trying to unvote ladd?
EnderWiggin
04-25-2022, 03:41
curious how you go from ?newc and neb are unpaired? into me making the most sense on a newc/Dolby team into me and newc being w/w in all worlds where newc flips red?
I don?t see progression for it in the post so forgive me for the boring self-centered questions
The end result is "Actually is Neb and Newc town?"
But that was mostly just my unfiltered reactions when I had a specific take. I haven't properly like, homogenised my world.
EnderWiggin
04-25-2022, 03:57
You say you like the post without explanation and then criticize part of it as feeling fake. Why do you like the post?
What do you think of Monty trying to unvote ladd?
The whole "Overlooking scum multiwagons" bit and the fact that it's obviously work prepared overnight. Also other than your placement on it I kinda vibed with the order of the list.
The unvote... I don't know how I feel about it.
Would w!Monty try to unvote at the last second to put w!Ladd in rand?
Like I guess if he gets lucky and Ladd survives then it could work out, but otherwise it just feels like a move I don't see wolves make.
EnderWiggin
04-25-2022, 03:58
Also town do dumb faked derptells too which is why that note didn't undermine the post
ok so now i feel like its appropriate to talk about this:
Ender I think is the bad apple in the bunch for essentially 3 reasons: 1) his push on me felt the most opportunistic, especially at EoD. 2) his case on me was so paint-by-numbers that I'd wager a large sum of money that no one ITT could paraphrase it without actually going back to look at it, and 3) there are a lot of interactions with ladd - some of which you've pointed out yourself - that feel like they aren't actually interested in solving each others' alignment. Couple of those that stood out to me in my catchup so far:i have a significant issue with the bolded in that it doesnt really fit my perception of how ender and ladd acted toward one another and having a singular pair of quotes as the example is kind of weak
so i went and compiled the interactions so as to save folks the legwork:
i don't like ender's way of posting (almost all of his posts are answer to other quotes and in last page he answered newcomb's post which was the last one and then went back to answer cuth's whose post was before and gave me "posting just to post" vibes). Both of these things are >rand w ime
for context, this is ladds first post with real content in the game. ender is the first person he tries to push. there are some wolves who go heavy on the distancing in early game but it feels less likely to me here
Amateur tip:
Interactions with people are a solid way to build reads.
Gimme a sec, gotta quote backwards to make Ladd sus me more.
So, talk to me Zack. Been a long time since you and I tangoed. Last time we ordered pizza.
the way he goes out of his way to snipe at ladd for his reason for wolfreading doesnt feel that aligned to me?
Fair.
I think that more comes from time since you last seen me but I can't be bothered linking meta because that's boring play.
I'll either win you over or get voted out at some point. (in reply to zack)
do you have a read on me/zack's push on you?
you seem to care more to argue the argument than to sort if we are wolves pushing you iyam
Zack I don't remember well enough, but I don't think it's super AI for him. So I'm just pending more stuff from him.
You? Honestly, I disliked the read. I'll get back to you on my stances once I finish catching up.
i do think ender reaction to zack/mine (but especially zack really) push is the wolfiest thing in an overall p villagery thread
i'll give you the advantage too
enderwiggin
katze treatement of newcomb this game is pretty much a carbon copy of how he treated me as v/v in the poisoner invitational 21er afair
except he gave me d1 freepass (and i did get n1ed)
and i dont really think they'd play like this as a wolf
Kinda vibe with this read.
Also I like Katze's humour esp around the sleep wagon/etc so
this segment here is maybe a bit weird where he just agrees with a read from ladd despite sussing him
Uh lemme parse my thoughts into lists.
I dislike Ladd's treatment of me particularly. The read on me (The whole "Backwards quoting" thing) feels entirely forced and also liiiike, unrealistic.
Raskol is obvious scum because of his lack of posts.
Sunbae I was leaning townish but the whole Monstr/Cuth read feels like he realised he fucked up and backed up. Pending explanation that makes my brain do the good wobly jelly I'm going to stare at him.
Monstr feels weaksauce.
I was townreading Cape but the whole Sleep thing is making me wonder.
WRT Ladd I absolutely could see it. But I also think like, he's jumped onto this small thing like a bull terrier and hasn't even bothered to think deeper about it. Like he's got his excuse to push me, doesn't see any solid defense of me, so he's just happy to sit on it and exist without re-evalling.
I think V or W Ladd focuses more on the active players at this point. Active players for town can give you something. Active players for wolves are dangerous and voting the low impact sorta afk people is something I only see newer wolves do. Unless an experienced wolf has a good reason.
I'm kinda tired and meh rn. I'm gonna go play Gloomhaven for a while and then I'll come back and see if I can put my serious pants on for y'all.
can you write a couple of sentences on who you'd lunch right now and why
You.
Because of *Spins wheel* Prejudice. Wait no that's not right.
Because I feel like you haven't evaluated my slot at any point after you made your "Reading backwards is a wolf tell" read which is both not a read I believe is accurate and also a weak as fuck first read.
Monstr for the weak approach and being there in a meh capacity. Also the post about trying more as wolf pings badly on my "But if I was wolf I would" ping. (Yes, I do that as town. Shut up.)
Katze because I can't live with someone better than me at lyrical genius around.
I want to prelude that these reads are subject to change with revision and half of them are jokes.
i gotta have the highest omgus per push STATS on MU
but thanks anyway
If you can't beat em, join em.
Vote: ladd
vote:ender
maybe i randed wolf so much in these things that I forgot how to village lol
dunno game seems very hard to me now. I could see it going...a lot of different ways and am just down to get some flips
sleep will prob get villaread for his posts since i went to sleep but imo they are pretty bad. he really reminds me of myself when i have a wolfread as a wolf and i just keep forcing seeeing my wolfread's posts as wolfy instead of trying to see if i am possibly wrong
newcomb/hk are both bad wagons imo
i dont really feel that great about ender being a wolf either quite frankly, i just have no better ideas besides a shruglunch and see you all tomorrow
theres some commentary from me in there but not a ton, but the tl;dr is that ladd went after ender from literally the start of the game and they pretty consistently took potshots at each other throughout the day. theres worlds where some wolves go heavy on the distancing but i kind of doubt either of them chooses to play it that way? you can maybe squint your eyes at ladd walking back his ender read late in the day but i could just as easily see that as distancing himself from a v flip.
but regardless acting like "they werent trying to solve each other" is...kind of a weird descriptor to me. theres a a decent amount of tension there, i felt, and stuff like ladd remarking about how he gets omgused on his pushes didnt seem like a reaction to a partner
but the "werent trying to solve each others alignments" accusation is notable because...thats exactly how i felt about ladd and newcomb on day 1. see below:
i don't like ender's way of posting (almost all of his posts are answer to other quotes and in last page he answered newcomb's post which was the last one and then went back to answer cuth's whose post was before and gave me "posting just to post" vibes). Both of these things are >rand w ime
I'll definitely grant you "posting just to post" although I can't say Ender's posts really gave me that vibe strongly, but what in your experience makes the post timing thing - answering the last post then going back to answer something from before- a wolf thing?
Doing a mental parse of my own games it kind of feels more like something I'd tend to do more as a villager - like, if you're actually in the moment and invested in a conversation you get a bit disorganized and out of order. Not that that's what happened here since it's not like there was a riveting conversation going on. More interested in the theory I guess, tangential.
i applied it more to turbos/mashes than normal games (and I also noticed it first in my own wolf games iirc)
sometimes as a wolf you see a post where you feel like you either 1) have to answer to or 2) have a smart answer to but to look like you didnt just pop in to answer that post you then also latch onto a random other post that happened before
i do think ender reaction to zack/mine (but especially zack really) push is the wolfiest thing in an overall p villagery thread
newcomb seems an obvious villager imo
u can maybe say this looks like a pocket, but its really a total softball question from newcomb and ladd doesnt look threatened by it at all, its kind of a nothing interaction
I don't.... *think" zack is buddying me? I can't really come up with a mental map of what I think is the counterexample of how he'd play it as a wolf beyond "different than this" and that bothers me a little but not enough to really do anything about it.
Semi-mostly unrelated I think right now ladd has about the closest game perspective to mine.
25400so again theres this buddying up between them, but theres never really any discussion of WHY he agrees with ladds perspective, and its honestly weird given he said he said he doesnt get the vibe that ender is "posting just to post", so like...what is there to agree with him on?to that point ladd had a handful of villager reads and was pushing ender and sunbae
katze treatement of newcomb this game is pretty much a carbon copy of how he treated me as v/v in the poisoner invitational 21er afair
except he gave me d1 freepass (and i did get n1ed)
and i dont really think they'd play like this as a wolf
are you saying you're not gonna n1 me?
annoying. I can get deeper into your pocket if it would helpthis is also just a weirdass post that can easily be wolf cheekiness. like its kind of weird that hes just playful with him but not seriously discussing stuff?
- I kinda think Ladd is a wolf but I will begrudgingly refrain from doing anything about it because the one thing I'm pretty good at concerning werewolf is understanding my place in a threadstate and I know barking up that tree with just get me scoffed at currently.
- I think both Newc and Zack are villagers getting pocketed by Ladd. I think the way they've handled this game day is in line with my feelings of villager them. Newcomb's post asking Katze about Cape/Sleep being the main reason there.
I've definitely had thoughts along those lines fwiwthis is also notable because he seemingly acknowledges paranoia on ladd, but it literally never comse up again and he seems to trust him entirely again in the later posts at eod
lets let katze lead eod
I'm surprisingly okay with this.
katze you are in charge
monkaS
Zack/ladd you guys both pretty sanguine on katze?
I'm still thinking his treatment of me feels p slimey / performative but that's been read decay-ing overnight.
ya, the villa read on him is actually the one I felt less doubt on overall
id be surprised if they wolfingagain, this is also...super weird? katze was newcombs main wolfread and he just kind of drops it because ladd said so
and again he had just expressed to sunbae the possibility he was getting pocketed by ladd shouldnt he be concerned that ladd is deflecting away from katze? but he just drops it with no real elaboration
and it doesnt feel like hes trying to solve ladd, like at all
vote:sleep
i'll follow my heart
I can live with that I think
Vote: sleep
katze,
i have played exactly 1 game with newcomb (tho I have read a bunch), idr have experience with them
i just think they are genuinely trying to solve the gameand again, this defense of newcomb from ladd is absolutely nothing, no backing at all
so yeah, im not the best at spotting bussing unless its like, really bad, but imho newcomb looks...way, way worse from ladd interactions than ender does? like newcomb showed exactly 0 critical thought into ladds alignment and was super hands off in talking to him, ladd didnt look pressured at all. this would maybe be understandable if they were familiar with each other but theyve even said they havnt played together much, so this approach just doesnt make sense to me as v/w.
and this isnt a purely associative read, i thought ender was more villagery on individual merits and that hasnt really changed for me
i shuld also say: theres these posts from ender about monstr, decide for yourself how they look:
Honestly feels kinda a weird take when you're pushing a wagon that was entirely (I think?) a meme to actually be in contention.
Hey look, Zack and I agree on something.
monstrbro
Weak. Like I haven't seen anything from them that feels like a solid take that holds water.
i honestly feel like this is a fairly good look for ender - while its possible
i have already said i feel its entirely possible monstr asked to be bussed, but i feel like in concert with the ladd stuff this is just more likely a villager than anything? generally if wolves are going for the strat of hellbussing each other like crazy day 1 they dont tae their foot off the gas at the last minute.
its possible i have the wrong angle on this and for wolves it was convenient to try to get me/newcomb as TvT wagons with them taking opposite sides. but looking at the posts im not sure i see it, if i am missing something here please tell me
lol i had a sentence left in there from an earlier writing but i tempered my read on thinking about it, please ignore the first line after the quotes
Montmorency
04-25-2022, 05:53
https://i.imgur.com/CiRyv8f.jpg
(hopefully this isnt strike 2)
This is ladd spewing nebbie partner, it's just my hunch.
I'm hoping that if I said 0-1 in [Sleep, Zack, HK, Neb, Newc, Cuth] I'd be correct
why cuth?
Could be noteworthy wrt Cuth one way or another.
i give up on making gifs, i have tried all the options
Because I don't think Cuth/Monstr work together
alrighty, why do you feel that strongly about monstr being a wolf?
FTR this and the previous are in retrospect pretty blatant sunbae townspew. Kinda don't think ladd would display this kind of defensive attitude about two partners in a row with the same player (Cuth+Monstr), but YMMV.
Honestly feels kinda a weird take when you're pushing a wagon that was entirely (I think?) a meme to actually be in contention.
Monstr feels weaksauce.
Have to record these two shades against Monstr by Ender. He also calls Monstr weak in his reads list later on.
Cool, 175 posts in 4 hours. I'll blind- Vote: Monstrbro for that.
Above rand chance this is a wolf
call me a top townread and ill vote u too
Katze top town
You may attempt to launch me now
Newcomb (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread/page13?p=2053828656#post2053828656)
Ftr the above is why I like to leave a lot of my reads inside my head
Outing them can often make things worse, esp if you're not sure
kek
Vote: Dobby
There can only be one
think HK is towny in the early game (<120)
think Dobby is not
kinda think that there aren't more than 1 partner agreeing with ladd's early ender read
Spew or antispew?
I have a series of questions for various people, then I'll try and get some big picture thoughts in
just wanted to say Monstrdude is likely a member of the village
Well okay I have more to say but not before I read more :D
Seems lightly not w/w. I think the partner version probably comes with another sentence or two?
Montmorency
04-25-2022, 06:25
Lmao wait was dolby wolf
I was pretty sure monstr wouldn't play like that as wolf but I'm also bad at this game, wp csargo
It do be that way sometimes.
no, I said you were so unmemorable it is like you're not playing.
It do be that way sometimes.
I didn't pay attention to it at all :p am on phone at my uncles house and supposed to be socialising so i might dig into that later tonight/tomorrow
I did have one ladd post early that I commented on a few times like, how he had one of his first posts making a list of 5 people that seemed really out of nowhere.. I don't remember if money was in that one
Mo' money, more 'rency.
Lmao wait was dolby wolf
I was pretty sure monstr wouldn't play like that as wolf but I'm also bad at this game, wp csargo
Oh lol, I just saw that dolby gor blown up, cool, then I can finally trust that sunbae is actually bae for real <3
Dobby, can you explain to me these two posts like 5 hours apart?
Players Votes
EnderWiggin 2 (zack, Raskolnikov)
nebjiamn 1 (Montmorency)
Montmorency 1 (Cuthillius)
hollowkatt 1 (Dobby)
Dobby 1 (hollowkatt)
1610
i believe this is correct
Montmorency
04-25-2022, 07:17
ladd is townreading benneh zack hk bc they're all following him and agreed with his push. I'm gonna call all of them town.
That random sunbae vote whack af though, especially when he can just vote Ender here and is townreading three people for pushing Ender (imo at least). Completely unsubstantiated across multiple posts at this post (including his first which I didn't include here). Don't think it can't be w/w
The pull of Rule of 3 is very strong here. Note for reference this is just mundane spew of sunbae, so I have to wonder how fancy Dolby was really getting here. However, Dolby does attempt to convey (at least subliminally) anti-pairs amoing ender/sunbae, zack/hk, and NC/nebbie. Zack and Sunbae are of course cleared, and I would struggle to believe that Dolby would just out his whole team within these sets. But he also wouldn't exclude them all, since that leaves Cuth/Rask/Dobby/Cape/katze/sleep.
Structural reads reinforce my gut.
(Secretly I'm not sure I know what I'm talking about, but I'll leave these musings as is.)
vote: dolby
this guy is probably town
Thank you for completing the request. Unfortunately, all I can offer you are experience points.
I was not piggybacking off anyones reads on newcomb. I expressed a wolf read on newcomb way before that post. When newcomb came back later in the day, he was posting on a manner that I DID NOT wolf read at the time because it was, well, very aloof, like I said. I know newcomb is capable of posting strong as a wolf so I didn?t want immediately ascribe that as wolfy for him because I considered a world where he was indeed just a villager taking it easy and not entirely in tune with the thread.
the last post was a joke because you did something I don?t remember now when I voted or expressed suspicion on someone you were votning. I am not going to bother responding to the posts about me claiming to be wolf with you, newcomb, and katze or being the mafia stalker, cause lol
Hmm
this was the tally when newcomb was fucking around during EOD and seemingly not really caring what happened
if he's a wolf then likely no wolves were seemingly in danger at this time (and honestly everyone above ladd there could be town and it wouldnt shock me)
It's the best case scenario for us. Although if Newcomb is town... yeah, Monstr and ladd were AFK but could all of the Mafia have been caught with their pants down? Also, going off that tally nebbie and katze should never be paired with Cuth and probably not with each other.
also i just had this thought but: the sorc and backup shouldnt necessarily out, if the sorc target is a wolf they have every incentive to let the prs out themselves and then kill one. this is somewhat dependent on whoever is the bomber for today but prefer no claiming here just yet
I never thought of that. Very helpful, in principle.
montmorency had kind of a funny reaction to winston voting ladd where he asked "is this a bit?" which kinda makes me raise my eyebrow a bit
but im not sure he does the vote -> "whats the tally" -> unvote thing as a wolf
Winston was just performing the standard CFD reaction test of the thread (and well). I was testing him personally throughout that EOD, culminating in joining his ladd wagon. Day 1 was basically about textbook wagon manipulation. It's a pretty transparent sort of thing once the observer is taken out of the heat of the moment.
actually a funny thing i just noticed in his iso: ladd made a big deal about how the people he voiced suspicion of (ender, sunbae, zack) pushed back on him (and sort of tried to preemptively discredit me doing it, lol), but basically didnt comment on cape calling him a suspect
Interesting.
this + the rest of the sleep interactions following this post + the confusion/request for knowing sleep's real identity + the rest of my sleep read all look real good for sleep
but i would be lying if i didn't mention the tinfoil light of my brain turns on wondering if this wasn't an elaborate w/w back and forth
Cape-nebbie not paired?
Oh yeah this was gonna be part of that too, just pretend those comments are fleshed out into appropriately Newcomb(TM) sounding sentences.
Rough list of antialignments:
Zack/Ender - early fluidity
Sunbae/Zack - wild treatment of me if w/w/w with ladd; careful respect+suspect type posts of each other early D1
Dobby/Sleep - dobby careful treatment + extra detail interacting with cape read, 116
Ender/HK - early antagonism didn't feel fake
Sunbae/HK - 238, timing
Cape/Rask - cape confusing rask for winston with the winston v flip
Interesting.
I believe wolf Benneh in a Ladd W/Newcomb W world would not be talking about not wanting to kill Cuth/Ender/Rask (who all would be villagers here) given there weren't many other options outside of wolves.
I believe villager Benneh could easily stare at that end of day, kind of feel all these wagons suck for various reasons, not really want to kill Ladd/Newcomb d1, kinda think others are towny, and just throw his hands up and vote Rask as a safer option.
?Wolf Benneh would be more pro wolf? is a take that I'm sure some will disagree with but it's what I believe, sorry.
Keeping for reference, my intended comment has become unclear or obsolete.
Ugh fine I'll respond to that. Just know that this is not something I usually do and you're getting the benefit of some residual guilt w/r/t Zack
... okay I don't know how to respond to that. Was there a question there? Like... Zack is town because he's posted a lot of stuff and I haven't found any of it wolfy, and generally wolves who post that much I find something wolfy about? Generally "negative space" is like, the important thing is what ISN'T there, not what IS there. In this case what's not there is him being wolfy? Right? Like I'm kinda baffled what's confusing about that or even what you're getting at with this. The fuck does ranmilla have to do with anything ITT?
I'm really sorry if this sounds like... uhh dismissive or bad or something but man I don't know you, I don't know how you play. I mentored you one time like 3 years ago and while I remember some of the theory we talked about IIRC you were a villager in that game. You mentioned a champs game on D1 like it was something I'd know, but I haven't read or really even followed champs for like 2 years now. I'm sure you're an awesome wolf I just don't like, have that in my air supply.
I'm not exactly expressing a townread on you, I'm expressing a "I held a wolfread on you for as long as it made sense, and my attention has now wandered onto other things" read.
If you're looking for more than that idk what to tell you. I'll get to you when and if something occurs to me.
Strong post.
I think katze might be a wolf btw. their defense / reason for townreading dolby today was ... pretty rough
:juggle:
She went after Dolby though?
Montmorency
04-25-2022, 07:21
more of the story comes in here where I am surprised that Mont didnt get vested for this :p
This was before Csargo's claim - how did you know I wasn't vested? This isn't even AI, since no one other than Sunbae and Csargo could have known I wasn't vested. Unless you were discreetly referencing his soft at the beginning of the day??
You're wasting your time
Indeed, also Visor came to me in a dream.
I don't know what the optimum play is here, so you can all get mad at me if you want, but it's probably preferable for you all not to investigate someone who's a dead man already.
Csargo's second and third softs.
Nah, no reason to be mad. Was hoping you were villa, glgl.
I'm sorc. Thought it was best to target a villager that wasn't being cleared by anyone. If I target a poe wolf they just blast the top villager and it's bad, hitting a villager in that spot clears out poe better and can still hit that same poe wolf (or a better one!). Figure it's correct for me to claim now since even if you're a wolf we have a backup and it can't be stopped.
Sunbae For the record you have had the purest tone out of the whole list. You were not long for this world anyway. RIP sweet prince, cut comment about Sunbae's reads.
I felt so bad for Zack once I realized what was happening and he was wrong for very right reasons lol. That opener was fake af
Please pull up the referent? Softed?
Also, please vest me tonight. I'm the only one here who can be relied upon not to bomb you or Zack, other than Zack (and if you are perceived to be vesting Zack for his talents, there is no universe in which Zack survives the night, wasting the opportunity). I'm a wildcard for the mafia, unless they're laughing at me from deep in my POE, so they'll cross their fingers and let me slide into their D(ay)Ms.
Anyways:
Cuth/Rask/Mont were obviously not the choices. They voted out a wolf.
I debated Newcomb. Ended up thinking it was possible counterwagon newcomb could die in the night which would be terrible.
I didn't want to hit any of the newcomb pushers (Katze, Ender, Sleep) because if Newcomb is a wolf they should be pretty clear?
After reading I had villa reads on Dobby/Benneh/Zack and thought they were all villa read by multiple people.
That left a pool of Monstr, Cape, Hollowkatt, Csargo
I kinda think Monstr is a wolf and would feel bad to give a vest to Dolby on sub in.
Cape and HK had some vocal defenders.
Left csargo who i kinda thought was a villager after reading eod.
Not 100% sure I played this correctly, but shrug
Optimal reasoning.
but seriously, whats the point of the stalker?
Yes. You can have this one for today.
Montmorency
04-25-2022, 07:22
I'm going to go with, for D2/3, shield Cuth, Rask, (Zack, Sunbae), Sleep, HK, katze. I just don't see more than one deep in here, maybe none. Maybe even toss ender in their when Zack isn't looking.
There are still no better candidates for ouster than Nebbie, unless someone wants to make a fresh case on Cape or Dobby. NC has seen a lot of strong defenses, so we have to allow that to play out for a bit, but I hope we would agree that NC should be resolved before anyone on his D1 wagon?
How I feel reading Zack, katze, Sunbae, and others' unique takes on NC's alignment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqcHKppYfIs
Dobby and Cape remain blind spots for me in generating usable opinions of them, though earlier commentary by Cuth and Nebbie introduced some suspicion that at least can hopefully be expanded into anti-pairing.
the wording here is so interesting
i know a few people have claimed to know who sleep is but this just feels .. TMI from wolf chat?
i also don't like the way monstr hand-waves a village read on sleep's big post later on
does anyone want to sanity check me here? feel free to call me a bumbling idiot for this one but i can't shake this + the other suspicions i have on sleep re: the ladd/sleep interactions
Can you rephrase what this question is about? Also, in your post chain I feel like your progression on HK is too rapid and pretextual, from Monstr-spewed to Dolby anti-spewed (if I'm not misunderstanding).
zack
Sunbae
Newcomb
nebjiamn
cuthillius
Raskolnikov
Montmorency
EnderWiggin
roro__b
katze
Sleep
Cape90
hollowkatt
How likely is it both wolves in the bottom section? Gotta say I'm kind of going over various pairs of them in my head and none of them kind of intuitively click as "ah yes this makes the game make perfect sense."
Could there have been a ladd busser? Ehhhhhhh.
Not sure how it's conceivable to rank nebbie over any ladd voter! Sleep and HK at the bottom also feels bad.
Ehh, I can't give much if any credit for calling for the shot. If you're a wolf with dolby there you know that slot's never endgaming. Like, once dolby did their catchup posts and then dipped, there was no giant case against them, just a mutual understanding that that slot was probably a wolf and was definitely gonna get PoE'd. You knew it, I knew it, everyone knew it.
So Mass Effect? In that game, the one before this one on the Org, the subbing consensus mafia subbed in on D3 and sacrificed for antispew, allowing his two surviving teammates to go deep and win (they had both been voting on the heavy D2 wagon ousting their partner D2). On the other hand, if Dolby posted up a storm he too could have gone deep subbing like Mario 2, also a year ago. He just chose not to.
lmao. Sup Dolby.
overnight thoughts: ladd's wagon is pure. Winston Hughes is a hero. I remember thinking Dobby looked good on EOD reread but can't really put a finger on it rn, may be suggesting a ladd cfd or something.
sleep/katze linked to newcomb's smh.
Benneh lean wolf.
*reads*
if there was a bus, it was Monty driving but yeah, I actually think Monty is town for now.
Eh. Why did nebbie rise to the same TL tier as me between these and your emote leans post?
:smash:: ladd, Dolby
:thumbsup:: Winston, Csargoat
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
:2thumbsup:: Raskol, cuth, zack, sleep, newcomb, Sunbae
:bow:: monty, dobby, Cape, Benneh
:inquisitive:: katze, HK
:whip:: Ender
nothing but the best tbh.
Monty's unvote is kinda weird, but dunno. don't wanna read into it too much rn because it could go both way. He put ladd in position in the first place (from which vote? need to check) I guess.
[/MENTION]
About my vote, I should also relate that wrangling the image took me a minute, so I missed the votes shortly preceding mine. As far as I knew I was voting to tie ladd 3-3-3.
Mario Mafia 1 at CFC maybe?
Bruh, you were Bowser, not mafia. Csargo was mafia.
on the topic of Montmorency and the ladd wagon.
please look at #961 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829254&viewfull=1#post2053829254) and #964 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829257&viewfull=1#post2053829257)
like Mont goes from outright shading Winston for the vote on ladd, to joining Winston by EOD. I am either paranoid at an obvtown move or I am Sherlock Holmes
Reaction testing and wagonomics. :verycool:
if nothing else its good champs practice!
and fwiw the ben read kind of expresses what i was saying earlier in a much more eloquent way, except that i was looking more at his play over the course of the day rather than eod specifically. it feels like if hes a wolf he hasnt really been trying to get villagers killed.
Would his slot need to try?
lumps dolby in with two confirmed villas (me, csargo) and a probable one (benneh) then says to bomb newcomb and never really expands on nor pushes the dolby thing at all.
the section encouraging everyone to think the wagons were w/w/v seems more like agenda-pushing than a genuine thought? I mean he clears rask without even considering that rask was a wolf wagon, even though he spends a paragraph talking about multiple wolf wagons being probable and wants to bomb newcomb into the stone age.
the reason for voting benneh seems silly, me and newcomb hadn't even flipped, talk about jumping to conclusions.
worth noting monty shouldn't really be getting credit for ladd vote, he tried to unvote but it was past the deadline
he kinda just seems like a wolf to me? ~:handball:
I asked you to take care of Dolby and you did (more so Csargo though). What's the issue?
It's an anxiety given how some of last year's games went, in parallel to this one. The only one who might be able to tell you more is HK.
If Newcomb is scum there is no way Rask is too, so there's no mystery in my concrete process. It's also possible, as I said, that the wagons were town. If there were two mafia wagons and NC was not one of them (town), well, we can come to that later - but our baseline knowledge now is that no more than two of four scum were active at EOD. If one of them was Rask, then Cuth is plausibly the last mafia, and I'm not interested in exploring that world today. If you want more info from Rask while we're all alive, try to piss him off.
You can mock my Nebbie push if I'm wrong. Not like this is the first hole I've ever dug (not in the sense of a tunnel).
I could also be deserving of more credit for unvoting ladd, so it evens out.
like from monty's POV, rask was a wagon against ladd (wolf) and newcomb (who monty seems to think is a wolf) and even expressed he didn't want to vote ladd and was basically doing it out of survival. monty spent time encouraging everyone to consider the possibility of multiple wolves being wagoned
but monty just ... blithely clears rask?
seems like he knows rask is a villager and since rask voted ladd, monty wasn't considering that he wasn't really clear from an uninformed POV
the perspective doesn't add up iyam
I never cleared a single player this game. I said Rask was getting a day-pass in the post you quoted, and I didn't judge NC as scum, only null and worth resolving for wagonomics. It's right there in your quotes. Make sense now?
Protip: The only world for your general bussing tinfoil on me is if either Rask or NC is exactly my partner. Keep calm and bomb ladd.
To be read with Newcomb energy.
Dobby, can you explain to me these two posts like 5 hours apart?
Heh
nebjiamn
04-25-2022, 07:40
B
so like, out of dolby, hollowkat, katze, csargo is there 3 2 wolves?
seems unlikely
coming back to this post post-flip because i think it sums up pretty much where i'm at atm post-flip and i wanna work off of it a bit. my world view didn't change all that much with dolby flipping red even though i wasn't really on him a ton, i don't imagine many people's worldviews did either.
i think the statement stands that the rest of the team probably isn't HK/Katze. i've soured a little on kat in terms of her being near the top of my v list but i still think she is >rand v. i'm slightly warming up to the idea that newcomb may be v this game and i still give her credit for noticing things that I did and pushing on those things on d1 in regard to him even if we both may end up having been wrong about them. more concerned about the process than the results and i like what she's shown more than i haven't. if there's one thing that's skeeved me a little it was her post earlier d2 where she wrote a wallpost with her continued issues about newcomb and dropped the mic on that post in a way that felt more like it was framed to make newcomb look bad without much deference to his thoughts, but i assume this is just a continuation of the weird dynamic they have with kat's expectations/newcomb's ignorance of kat's meta (lmao) and the repercussions therein
HK i think has lots of good posts (especially relative to his actual postcount!) and I feel like its been very easy for me to follow along with his progressions while i read the thread. his response to newcomb today in trying to figure out if we had w/w/w, w/w/v, or v/v/w wagons yesterday and then extrapolating that to a shortened suspect list of [dolby, dobby, ender] looks really good.
Which would put, in my opinion, >2 wolves between the following {ender, katze, sleep, monstr (now dolby), neb, dobby)
Of those the ones I'm most suspect of are dolby, dobby, and ender. I liked katzes posting throughout the day. I also freely admit I'm shite at reading them. Neb and sleep I should have reads on but don't.
I do at least remember that they're playing. Dobby otoh I do not. Seems like an iawy vibe check place tbh.
Like, its not just that he places dolby as his 1st from that list, but the way he clears kat, sleep, and myself from that list, particularly myself and sleep and going on to say he doesn't have reads on us when he should. since i think kat and sleep are both >rand v, that would be a hell of a position to take when he'd be well within his right to suspect all 3 of us there without getting much flak for it. again, i like the process here and in other parts of his iso. i suppose if dobby and ender is 0 wolves, it might have been fine for him to just rule of 3 two separate categories of folks and score some bus credit on dolby/monstr but i still think it comes out looking clean.
So am i wrong on newcomb?
possibly, but i dont *want* to be wrong on newcomb and i dont *want* to just shrug and write him off just to see his alignment
i'm definitely still in the possible camp but moving away from probable where i've been sitting for a good chunk of the game. i think the frustration he's shown toward zack last night plus the point he's made about being night/day from his wildcard game are pretty valid. its just hard to imagine newc on this team and him basically mailing in EOD yesterday when he'd know he'd be a candidate AND another, strong wolf gets wagoned/lunched (i mnight be mis-attributing some agency here because the ladd vote was really quick but i still feel like newcomb shows a bit more urgency to command that EOD rather than just kind of accept it?) (i don't think newcomb was at EOD but i believe he was there leading up to it, i guess i should double check this but i'm lazy)
is zack wrong about cape?
is cuth wrong about ender?
this feels like the crux of the game for me, at this point? with a village read on newcomb starting to take shape, my world view doesn't really make sense unless one of zack/cuth is wrong on their v read here. and i mean, its werewolf, so its obviously very possible both are just correct and we have a deep wolf or two in either the bussers or a misclear of the sleep/kat/HK/newc quartet (list potentially not all-inclusive, its late).
i think ender's looked really good with the two flips. i think any w/w potential there was between ladd/ender has been squashed a bit with how he treated monstr d1. the question i suppose becomes, was ender feeling the heat early d1 and looking to distance based off how his partner had been bussing him? i have read and agree that the posting between those two didn't really seem to be involved with solving eachother's alignments, but at the same time, we know why ladd wasn't, and ender's POV was an OMGUS read (not a diss/insult calling it OMGUS since it was correct!), which i think could explain why that appears that way. i also kinda think there'd be more there there if they were indeed distancing, wouldn't there? ladd is an excellent wolf and i know blade is too just off his rep. they could have turned that up a bit if that was for show.
cape i am straight up struggling to solve. a lot of his posting has felt to me like "Here's a post, here's a fact, elaboration, done" but then I don't really see the process behind it a ton. i also feel like there's been lots of good thoughts or questions that have just been left dangling behind. also the weird shade that calls me out for not finding ladd in a room full of players with equal or more experience with ladd than me. i am setting that aside a bit because i don't want to make reads too much based around how people poke and prod at me, but that just felt designed like a hit piece on me rather than coming from an inquisitive position. this could very much be a me problem but i'm just having trouble connecting the dots on cape's posting ITG and how he's getting from a->b a lot of times or a better way to put it maybe, where his posting begins and where his thought process ends? I feel like pound for pound, there's more empty questions in cape's iso that either 1) i can't see how they help him solve the game or 2) if/how he follows up on it later in the game?
did i clear sleep too lightly? i dont think so, ladd pressed there kinda hard and ended there.
subscribe to my newsletter. i've got the hottest tinfoils out there about how monstr spewed sleep wolf and ladd tried to play it up. :verycool:
did zack get me? i dont think so, i really liked his snap back at ladd and overall posting?
hehe
did someone bus ladd? maybe?
doesn't seem like it right? i've already talkeda bout this so ill leave it for now but not really interested in solving this part of the game right now
i think we nabbed huge equity by punting ladd yesterday. i think we'd have gotten to monstr/dolby sooner rather than later but with that kind of swing getting ladd i see no reason to dig too hard into the foils for now.
nebjiamn
04-25-2022, 07:45
Can you rephrase what this question is about? Also, in your post chain I feel like your progression on HK is too rapid and pretextual, from Monstr-spewed to Dolby anti-spewed (if I'm not misunderstanding).
There's no real question in that -- i was mostly just stating that the way monstr talked about sleep (e.g. "I dont think i know you that well") felt like a slip that he KNEW sleep's identity because they're in wolf chat together and when he posted that in-thread it was coming off in a way that he forgot that no one else (besides I think rask?) knows for sure who sleep is, so how could he have a gauge on how well he knows them unless he knows who they are?
I asked for a sanity check because that kind of stuff can be so ~rand or stupid that its not worth digging in on but it felt worth calling out anyway.
Cape: I feel ok about some of their interactions with dead wolves. “Least confident wolf read by a long shot is Ladd” came out of nowhere, as did their “monstr is a member of the town” post. The response to Cuth saying him/monstr have a lot of w/w equity is to quote the post and go into villa reading Cuth pretty hard, which seems to lack much of an agenda to me. Their wolf reads seem to be their own thing (pushed Winston for a bit, Mont, Cuth and then switched as Cuth posted more, etc). They defended monstr a bit around the blowup but I think that's a reasonable take (in fact I kind of think seeing that as w/w who has already pressed suspicion on Monstr would almost certainly result in you writing him off instead of defending him?). Called out Dolbys wall for being rough. Basically, looking through the iso again with all the new information makes me think Cape has good interactions with flipped wolves and has some pretty good stretches of trying to solve things. Zack also has a strong townread there and I'm comfortable sponging it at this juncture.
nebjiamn
04-25-2022, 07:49
oh, i realize i didn't talk about dobby in that post. i've liked dobby since his catch up d1 and his read list late and his posting today. i also realize this puts me in the precarious position of only really having 1 wolf read atm which means i'm clearing at least 1, potentially 2
and i don't really have anything else to say about that besides shucks
Cuth: Voted out Ladd d1. Generally towny posts. I didn't think Cuth/Monstr was likely a pair given the way Cuth talked about Monstr (talked about how it's hard to read him because they view things similarly, made a joke about still being possible to be w/w with him, kept him in a tier of his own, never attempted to defend him nor really push him).
Dobby: Liked his initial call out of Ladd for having too many reads too early. Thought their hesitancy on trying to figure out my alignment was natural and nuanced using a lot of our history in a way that made me think they were actually trying to figure it out. I thought Dobby just disagreeing with Newcomb and saying Sleep/Cape could be w/w was entirely against threadflow/consensus in a villagery way and then immediately arguing with Katze in 682 also came off towny to me in a way where I thought Dobby was reading posts, thinking about why they are being posted, and trying to reach conclusions from it rather than having a nefarious intent to spin posts for personal gain. The Hollowkat push was also against general thread consensus at the time. I have small concerns ? two dead wolves called villagers in the big reads list, the double posts about ?oh dolby was a wolf? like 5 hours apart making me think they might be fake, the fact that pretty much nobody else is villa reading Dobby ? but the concerns are very small and I think the overall body of work is still just villager Dobby trying to solve the game.
Ender: I've talked a bit about Ender's stuff with me and how it felt weird, but I also recognize I am in a blind spot in that particular situation given it was about me. I read Ender's response to me and I understand. To answer the question, I called it as feeling slimy and opportunistic because it seemed to pop up when people had an issue with me and went away when people stopped caring about it while you presented it as some elaborate trap. I acknowledge it totally could be – and if you note I made sure to say even if Newcomb is villa I wanted to talk to you about things instead of just trying to kill you or anything. As for the rest of the game: I'm interested in how Ender suspected Ladd for much of the day and then ended up going hard at Newcomb while avoiding Ladd while he was being wagoned at end of day, but I don't think it's a smoking gun because Ender started suspecting Newcomb pretty early as well. Plus, there's still the whole thing about how Newcomb can still be a wolf and we just had w/w wagons and the one that makes Ender look bad flipped first.
Overall though, their iso seems fine in their interactions with known roles. They snipped at Ladd out of the gate with the interactions post, say they vibe with a ladd read about Katze v, and then start turning on Ladd as a direct response to Ladd's pressure there. It's rather inconsistent as a w/w theater thing imo and the timing is really weird as w/w given it's right around the time that the thing with me happens where it's easy to pile on me and dish out a Ladd town read or something but instead they suspect me and then start posting about wLadd. They also called out Monstr for being weaksauce at the same time and follows it up by shading monstr for pushing a meme wagon seriously. Then goes into Ladd even more – saying he has his reasons to push me, sees no defense of me, and is happy to sit there. Comes back from a break and goes right back into him and votes him. This was the post Zack called out as weak and potentially w/w given the ramp up to voting him and then a flat feeling one actually happening.
Then comes back with a Newcomb case that's rather detailed and continues pushing Newcomb the rest of the day. Which, reading through, makes the end of day make plenty of sense to me.
I think Ender is just a villager? Cuth feels very strongly about it too. I think me trying to find a wolf read there is just trying to think the game is super hard and so far nothing has shown me that it should be.
HollowKatt: I think their interactions with Monstr are interesting. Immediately called out Monstr for feeling spicy for the sake of spicy, follows up on it by reiterating it to Cuth, monstr returns by saying it's not a real thought and voting hk. That is the entirety of HK's iso that I feel I can call towny and, frankly, I'm pretty ok saying it's reasonable to expect monstr to be a bus target at that point. I don't think anything else in there feels like someone trying to solve the game and I think the case on Dobby is like, really twisty in a nefarious way. I have this slot as a possible wolf. Not a lock. Could easily still be villa. But thus far isoing everyone up to this point, this one is the least villagery to me by far
nebjiamn
04-25-2022, 08:00
nice to know im not the only one thinking "man there's lots of villagers"
I mean that's just how it works when half the wolves are dead on day 2 :holiday2:
Just popping in before bed to say the last 15 or so posts have been really just enjoyable werewolf, nice job guys. I feel like I should have something really deep and insightful to say about them but honestly my biggest takeaway is "man now I remember why this game is fun sometimes."
In terms of more relevant stuff... I think I was working myself around to a Monte vote, influenced a bit by Zack's case and the general idea of "well who's not actually trying to solve the game, in simple terms?" And before that last flurry I'd have said Monte, Rask, and then like HK/Dobby/Cape but only if you wanted to be like, uncharitable. Like those 3 it's more like the way they're approaching the game is kind of.. peripheral. Which at least when I'm a wolf and especially if I'm on a team that's not doing so hot I kind of end up playing that way just out of sheer self preservation.
What I mean is - I guess this is directly to you Sunbae, but what is the easy world here? Both wolves are just not in any kind of place where they have any thread control?
I keep coming back to sleep, ender, katze. There's an element of wanting there, I have to admit it. The idea that the people who have been most critical of me this game have all 3 been genuine about it is... distasteful. But, possible. I suppose.
But like I can't get out of that spiral. I suppose I'm tunneled a bit. Like I see that latest post from Ender where he like, very very begrudgingly entertains a townread on me and my brain just SCREAMS "this guy just realized he lost a mislynch."
Anyway I'm not really going anywhere with this. TL;DR good posts, love the energy. What's the easy world if we're in the easy world though?
Katze: A bit of a difficult one for me. There was a really great post towards Ladd kinda trying to pull a punch when asking if Ladd had a thought on sleep wolf before newcomb posted it. The rest of her posts show some good attempts at solving. I have some lingering issues though:
1. I struggle to follow the progression as EOD happens from saying she's the biggest anti-newcomb voice to this lackadaisical vote on newcomb with 'fingers crossed but i do not like any other wagon at all really ' while there's like 6 wagons within a vote of each other.
2. I am skeeved out by the HK defense using the term read decay because it's the exact same way Ladd defended HK. I have both seen and been in wolf chats where a wolf makes some goofy sounding tagline for a defense and other wolves meme on it a bit in the thread. Benneh knows it as the Super Smash Bros spicy read. It's, silly but it crossed my mind.
3. I kind of think HK is a wolf in a lot of worlds and Katze I think has been defending HK a lot in this game. HK being the only one to get a larger blurb in the wagons bad post with why is this even a wagon.
4. Outside of the one prod at Ladd, I don't think Katze really interacted with the dead wolves much. In fact, Katze tried to give Dolby some town credit today for the pronoun read, then pretty much swapped over to dolby once it became clear that wasn't going to fly today.
None of these are that strong but I have strong reasons to call others villagery and I don't really have many for Katze.
With that said, if Newcomb is a wolf then Katze killed it this game.
Have as a possible wolf. Likely paired with either HK, Rask, or Neb if a wolf. i think?
"what is the easy world"
Not sure yet, going through everyone individually and seeing how I feel.
Mont: Voted Ladd. Thought the vote count comment was just the right level of towny tinfoil. Voted monstr d1 and had Dolby as second to bottom. I have very little experience with Mont and I know Zack has said they are capable of bussing. Thought their posting today was good though. I'm fine calling a likely villager for now and letting others determine if that's incorrect later.
nebjiamn
04-25-2022, 08:23
1. I struggle to follow the progression as EOD happens from saying she's the biggest anti-newcomb voice to this lackadaisical vote on newcomb with 'fingers crossed but i do not like any other wagon at all really ' while there's like 6 wagons within a vote of each other.
its funny how perspective works, because i totally get this progression from katze and if she's a wolf she played it exactly how i did as a villager minus me having the guts to follow through on the vote, so points for authenticity
Neb: Had a big post about their eod earlier. I think the only way they are a wolf is specifically with Newcomb at this point, otherwise I think they ensure a villager goes over instead of ladd. I totally understand villa Neb's eod thought process and progression. I think we think about werewolf very similarly and it's how I envision my posting if I were around. Also think there's been good solving there throughout the two days. Their progression on Newcomb could be one of realizing they don't have to cut their losses on him anymore and moving him back, but I also think it's entirely reasonable for villager neb to treat newcomb this way today as well. Basically, I wouldn't kill Neb unless newcomb flipped wolf. Again, think the solving today is very good.
its funny how perspective works, because i totally get this progression from katze and if she's a wolf she played it exactly how i did as a villager minus me having the guts to follow through on the vote, so points for authenticity
[/COLOR]
I mean to add another thing: I thought the way she expressed concern about you pocketing her a little bit after a bunch of people town read me for saying that Ladd was trying to pocket people was a bit weird. Obviously in this player list I'm never going to be like "so and so is an obvious wolf". They won't be. I'll just say "hey, you're not as towny as others are so sorry" and that's kinda where I am with Katze. I uh, am not saying to kill Katze or anything.
nebjiamn
04-25-2022, 08:26
Neb: Had a big post about their eod earlier. I think the only way they are a wolf is specifically with Newcomb at this point, otherwise I think they ensure a villager goes over instead of ladd. I totally understand villa Neb's eod thought process and progression. I think we think about werewolf very similarly and it's how I envision my posting if I were around. Also think there's been good solving there throughout the two days. Their progression on Newcomb could be one of realizing they don't have to cut their losses on him anymore and moving him back, but I also think it's entirely reasonable for villager neb to treat newcomb this way today as well. Basically, I wouldn't kill Neb unless newcomb flipped wolf. Again, think the solving today is very good.
man.
lmao
i get it but damn
Newcomb: I've talked a ton about Newcomb already. My thoughts are pretty clear. Could still be a wolf. Kinda don't think so. Going to make my final call (I assume i'll die tonight? Maybe zack will?) tomorrow before eod but idk, he doesn't read as dead inside to me and frankly I think the wolves probably feel pretty dead inside after that d1/start of day2.
man.
lmao
i get it but damn
I asked myself "how is neb a wolf in this game" and my answer is "wolf with newcomb or something went horribly wrong" lol
it might be unfair but idk, its 230 am cut me some slack haha
nebjiamn
04-25-2022, 08:33
trust me i get it
i'm already on record saying i've moved past the 'probable' stage for newcomb to be a wolf but the heart still wants d1!benneh to have been right on something that i actually cared about and to read "if newcomb's a wolf prob kill benneh" just hurts since that pelt, i feel, would belong partially to me but i'd be understandably yeeted for not having the balls to commit to it on d1
if newcomb IS a wolf this game you strong players better watch your backs in the future cause i'm never holding back again
EnderWiggin
04-25-2022, 08:34
I keep coming back to sleep, ender, katze. There's an element of wanting there, I have to admit it. The idea that the people who have been most critical of me this game have all 3 been genuine about it is... distasteful. But, possible. I suppose.
But like I can't get out of that spiral. I suppose I'm tunneled a bit. Like I see that latest post from Ender where he like, very very begrudgingly entertains a townread on me and my brain just SCREAMS "this guy just realized he lost a mislynch."
Anyway I'm not really going anywhere with this. TL;DR good posts, love the energy. What's the easy world if we're in the easy world though?
You ever looked through posts and realised that maybe your triumphant case you spent ages on and the tunnel you lovingly constructed might be a miss?
You'd be begrudging about it too =P
EnderWiggin
04-25-2022, 08:36
Bunch of other posts I probably should respond to but low energy dip in and only have 20m and want to formulate my really rough thoughts from earlier into something coherent for the rest of town because right now it's a hot steaming mess.
I don't think anyone has responded to any of my Monty stuff? other than newcomb referencing it
and people are still giving him credit for ending on ladd when I've pointed out 80 times that he actually tried to unvote but it was at :01 (after seeing several other people suddenly vote ladd)
his posts today are not doing it today for me but I seem to be on an island here
Rask: voted ladd. Have one nagging concern in the back of mind. The way monstr responded ?are you trying to make me look bad? before voting. Feels kinda w/w but I also know that's silly. Almost no experience with Rask myself so I don't really know what to look for. I ask myself what it would take for Rask to be wolf and the answer is just self-pressing and not realizing Newcomb was a wagon OR newcomb being a wolf? Maybe even thinking they were lead wagon and were trying to make Ladd look better and then the votes piled on and whoops? It's a stretch. Mostly think the slot is villa. Just kinda crapped on Dolbys entrance with a lmao, just was having no part of Newcombs wagon, etc. Would only evaluate this slot if we get to end game and things seem hard.
trust me i get it
i'm already on record saying i've moved past the 'probable' stage for newcomb to be a wolf but the heart still wants d1!benneh to have been right on something that i actually cared about and to read "if newcomb's a wolf prob kill benneh" just hurts since that pelt, i feel, would belong partially to me but i'd be understandably yeeted for not having the balls to commit to it on d1
if newcomb IS a wolf this game you strong players better watch your backs in the future cause i'm never holding back again
Oh wait, you know what. Let me double check something, you might be very right about that
and the chainsaw defense from ladd just rings my alarm bells
it was a weird, weak reason that he kept bringing up to defend him, and he also tried to share me for voting Monty and made a post saying "one of your villa tells is when you defend lhf like Monty"
I don't think anyone has responded to any of my Monty stuff? other than newcomb referencing it
and people are still giving him credit for ending on ladd when I've pointed out 80 times that he actually tried to unvote but it was at :01 (after seeing several other people suddenly vote ladd)
his posts today are not doing it today for me but I seem to be on an island here
I'm really unsure, sorry. Not like, unsure of you being right more like being unsure about my take on the slot. I know the unvote happened. Just trying to get a general take going on, idk
EnderWiggin
04-25-2022, 08:42
I don't think anyone has responded to any of my Monty stuff? other than newcomb referencing it
and people are still giving him credit for ending on ladd when I've pointed out 80 times that he actually tried to unvote but it was at :01 (after seeing several other people suddenly vote ladd)
his posts today are not doing it today for me but I seem to be on an island here
I did respond but I also didn't agree. An unvote doesn't do as much as swapping a vote if he really was w/w
forgive me for running out of steam, but the last one is sleep and they just seem like a villager to me while ladd also ended the day voting them and kinda piggybacking off of newcombs suspicion onto sleep to case/wagon them too. Just seems like an obvious villager and I'm sorry if that ends up being wrong
nebjiamn
04-25-2022, 08:43
I don't think anyone has responded to any of my Monty stuff? other than newcomb referencing it
and people are still giving him credit for ending on ladd when I've pointed out 80 times that he actually tried to unvote but it was at :01 (after seeing several other people suddenly vote ladd)
his posts today are not doing it today for me but I seem to be on an island here
strangest thing with mont is his clearing of kat/sleep/HK while clamoring for me but i just assumd that comes from inexperience with that playerlist more than anything? I guess it kind of makes sense if he's pre-flipping newcomb w but if thats the case why's he pushing for my lunch?
but aside from that i just kinda think he's a villager? i get he unvoted but uh, eh, idk
update: think neb is right about the whole newcomb thing. Don't think the rest of the posting d1 makes sense as w/w, so I think neb is just a villager?
nebjiamn
04-25-2022, 08:44
Vote: Cape90
nebjiamn
04-25-2022, 08:45
update: think neb is right about the whole newcomb thing. Don't think the rest of the posting d1 makes sense as w/w, so I think neb is just a villager?
https://c.tenor.com/Rc1KT1gnJugAAAAM/yes-soccer.gif
EnderWiggin
04-25-2022, 08:46
cuthillius
Raskolnikov
Montmorency
-----Probably none above this line
nebjiamn
Newcomb
Dobby
katze
Sleep
Cape90
hollowkatt
Not ordered, just needed that view.
I'm ignoring the Ladd voters. I don't think there's ever 2 wolves in them, and I don't really think there's one. But if there is one we can catch them later.
Of the bottom set: I'd say I definitely have come around to Newcomb a lot today. Part of it is a bad emotional read on the reaction to Zack, but I am seeing some other stuff.
I would be lying if I said I didn't hold a kernal of hope I was right about NewComb all along but I'm setting that aside for now.
As I said before:
Ben probably not wolf unless with NewC. And there's a sequence that I kinda don't think is with NC (see my catchup) so I think that's just clear.
I'm afraid that Sleep has me pocketed but damn if I don't like their posts a lot. Which filtered down leaves me with:
Dobby
katze
Cape90
hollowkatt
(This looks surprisingly similar to other POEs I'm seeing which feels good.)
Dobby/HK are not paired. (Today case and interactions)
Cape/Katze not paired. (Early sniping from Cape towards Katze)
Still trying to diff pair the rest brain is slowly catching up.
So that's my (mostly) in depth thoughts on every player. Tomorrow during the day I'll try to get some good pairs/not-pairs and come up with my final guess. I am eager for any feedback on those thoughts.
EnderWiggin
04-25-2022, 08:47
That's probably the shittiest reads list I've made in ages.
There's no real question in that -- i was mostly just stating that the way monstr talked about sleep (e.g. "I dont think i know you that well") felt like a slip that he KNEW sleep's identity because they're in wolf chat together and when he posted that in-thread it was coming off in a way that he forgot that no one else (besides I think rask?) knows for sure who sleep is, so how could he have a gauge on how well he knows them unless he knows who they are?
I asked for a sanity check because that kind of stuff can be so ~rand or stupid that its not worth digging in on but it felt worth calling out anyway.[/COLOR]
Sorry, can you link me to your think on this again?
EnderWiggin
04-25-2022, 08:49
So that's my (mostly) in depth thoughts on every player. Tomorrow during the day I'll try to get some good pairs/not-pairs and come up with my final guess. I am eager for any feedback on those thoughts.
I liked the process on Neb and is similar to process I made half delirious so I'm going to take that as a good sign.
I dunno if I agree with the take on Raskol. I don't think he does that as w/w there. (Unless it IS w/w/w wagons on D1 but honestly I don't think that's what happened.)
nebjiamn
04-25-2022, 08:50
appreciate it sunbae. i may not be around much tomorrow besides EOD but i've read and digested most of those posts. may not get back at you with feedback but i also think you can see my perspective in my biggest post and if you wanna address anything specific you can ping me i guess? your posts are helpful and ill echo newcomb that this has been the most enjoyable batch of ww back and forths in a game i've had in a while
nebjiamn
04-25-2022, 08:51
i have a townping on montmorency!
Feels off to me
Caveat I don't think I know you that well
the wording here is so interesting
i know a few people have claimed to know who sleep is but this just feels .. TMI from wolf chat?
i also don't like the way monstr hand-waves a village read on sleep's big post later on
does anyone want to sanity check me here? feel free to call me a bumbling idiot for this one but i can't shake this + the other suspicions i have on sleep re: the ladd/sleep interactions
here, sunbae
nebjiamn
04-25-2022, 08:52
i have a townping on montmorency!
Feels off to me
Caveat I don't think I know you that well
the wording here is so interesting
i know a few people have claimed to know who sleep is but this just feels .. TMI from wolf chat?
i also don't like the way monstr hand-waves a village read on sleep's big post later on
does anyone want to sanity check me here? feel free to call me a bumbling idiot for this one but i can't shake this + the other suspicions i have on sleep re: the ladd/sleep interactions
(click thru the monstr post to see he was actually quoting 3 sleep posts, not just the one i quoted)
yeah, regardless of whether or not I've got it close to right, this has been a really fun game. I forgot how enjoyable and stress free werewolf can be when you just have a chill playerlist that's trying to figure things out. Glad to hear others are enjoying themselves too. My games here are always fun and I should try to cut back on the high volume mu games and replace them with some more games here if people are game.
Benneh: noted. If you get some time can you link me to your things on the ladd/sleep interactions? Its close to 3am and I like, just decided to skim through sleeps iso and said "meh seems villagery" cause i ran out of steam. I'll give it a more thorough look over tomorrow to double check.
For now, bedtime. I've posted enough lol. gn friendos
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 11:04
katze treatement of newcomb this game is pretty much a carbon copy of how he treated me as v/v in the poisoner invitational 21er afair
except he gave me d1 freepass (and i did get n1ed)
and i dont really think they'd play like this as a wolf
Sleep agreed. I actually think there might be a wolf there and it might be newcomb (katze has equity too). Like this post from ladd seems made to soft someone town. I am leaning newcomb since he isn't mentionned directly but that's dumb.
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 11:12
Katze: A bit of a difficult one for me. There was a really great post towards Ladd kinda trying to pull a punch when asking if Ladd had a thought on sleep wolf before newcomb posted it. The rest of her posts show some good attempts at solving. I have some lingering issues though:
1. I struggle to follow the progression as EOD happens from saying she's the biggest anti-newcomb voice to this lackadaisical vote on newcomb with 'fingers crossed but i do not like any other wagon at all really ' while there's like 6 wagons within a vote of each other.
2. I am skeeved out by the HK defense using the term read decay because it's the exact same way Ladd defended HK. I have both seen and been in wolf chats where a wolf makes some goofy sounding tagline for a defense and other wolves meme on it a bit in the thread. Benneh knows it as the Super Smash Bros spicy read. It's, silly but it crossed my mind.
3. I kind of think HK is a wolf in a lot of worlds and Katze I think has been defending HK a lot in this game. HK being the only one to get a larger blurb in the wagons bad post with why is this even a wagon.
4. Outside of the one prod at Ladd, I don't think Katze really interacted with the dead wolves much. In fact, Katze tried to give Dolby some town credit today for the pronoun read, then pretty much swapped over to dolby once it became clear that wasn't going to fly today.
None of these are that strong but I have strong reasons to call others villagery and I don't really have many for Katze.
With that said, if Newcomb is a wolf then Katze killed it this game.
Have as a possible wolf. Likely paired with either HK, Rask, or Neb if a wolf. i think?
I really need to ISO HK before EOD. I am clearing him for his Dobby vote but need to see the dynamic at the time. I had that thought yesterday that HK was actually trying to gimmic his town meta (relaxed, jokey, with solvey posts mixed in as the game progresses) but failing to sus folks convincingly. He switched to Dolby once Dolby flipped red (was starting to gear up toward my slot) and have mostly posted about him since then? hmm
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 11:13
I really need to ISO HK before EOD. I am clearing him for his Dolby vote but need to see the dynamic at the time. I had that thought yesterday that HK was actually trying to gimmic his town meta (relaxed, jokey, with solvey posts mixed in as the game progresses) but failing to sus folks convincingly. He switched to Dolby once Dolby flipped red (was starting to gear up toward my slot) and have mostly posted about him since then? hmm
*EBWOP
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 11:17
Eh. Why did nebbie rise to the same TL tier as me between these and your emote leans post?
About my vote, I should also relate that wrangling the image took me a minute, so I missed the votes shortly preceding mine. As far as I knew I was voting to tie ladd 3-3-3.
Bruh, you were Bowser, not mafia. Csargo was mafia.
-> Benneh raised because I think they have been solvey today. I don't think they are pushing an agenda here, but parsing folks.
-> oh yeah, I mixing it with Smile Mafia 2 maybe (I was a wolf with Logic and Marcher Jovian, Csargo was playing it iirc)
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 11:23
Rask: voted ladd. Have one nagging concern in the back of mind. The way monstr responded ?are you trying to make me look bad? before voting. Feels kinda w/w but I also know that's silly. Almost no experience with Rask myself so I don't really know what to look for. I ask myself what it would take for Rask to be wolf and the answer is just self-pressing and not realizing Newcomb was a wagon OR newcomb being a wolf? Maybe even thinking they were lead wagon and were trying to make Ladd look better and then the votes piled on and whoops? It's a stretch. Mostly think the slot is villa. Just kinda crapped on Dolbys entrance with a lmao, just was having no part of Newcombs wagon, etc. Would only evaluate this slot if we get to end game and things seem hard.
I am just villa fame. kinda slacking even since everyone is doing such a good job and I feel so IC I am just waiting for dvc lol.
I can see Newcomb being a wolf fwiw, I just choosed Ladd because didn't remember a read on him and to sheep WH.
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 11:34
ladd
newcomb
montmorency
all of these are good targets
Crossposted from scumchat?
To get a feel I am actually rereading Monty's EOD. Seems to me he did a good amount of work to shade Winston and resist the ladd wagon finally.
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 11:35
I meant to reply to this first, which got me into Monty's ISO
I don't think anyone has responded to any of my Monty stuff? other than newcomb referencing it
and people are still giving him credit for ending on ladd when I've pointed out 80 times that he actually tried to unvote but it was at :01 (after seeing several other people suddenly vote ladd)
his posts today are not doing it today for me but I seem to be on an island here
I have seen it and to be blatantly honnest I have a problem with this unvote since :02. I am debating if w!Monty would do it.
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 11:36
would be fun if the remaining scum were just monty and newcomb lol. I should compare cuth's read to Winston's. (both IC from the D1 flip, scums choosed Winston)
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 11:41
LET IT R- :thwack:
In play or as candidates?
another weird post before getting to business
Vote: Ladd
https://i.imgur.com/EeYtIBY.jpg
o crap what sthe tally
Unvote
I really dislike the "o crap".
Still best to keep pretending I am leaning town on Monty and chop him asap :D
Why Dobby could be town, an exercise in expanding my mind:
1. It's pretty early to sus on Ladd here but Dobby does it. No wolf at this point is super concerned with positioning nor is there any kind of indication that Ladd could potentially be at risk here. While it's a safe position for a wolf to take, drawing attention to the position by including it as one of only four stated positions I think is risky. Ladd would need to go over quickly (basically D1) for the read to not look like TMI
unfortunately this is it.
I've gone through the rest of your ISO and frankly I'd kill you for it. It's not super great. Like the post I'm replying to and the post I quoted above are your towniest posts to me. The rest are kinda meh with quite a few "wtf" thrown in there, specifically when addressing me/your read on me.
Like these:
I left the bold in there b/c I have no idea how you arrive at that conclusion, but the main thing I want to point out are your thoughts on my post here. It's nothing but word salad designed to look smart while not actually saying anything other than, in a nut shell, "this is a post I dobby can make as a wolf therefore it can be from a wolf"
And this is the "extensive post about my reasoning" that you've referenced above
None of these posts are good tbh. newcomb was townie enough that he really shouldn't have been run up at all. Raskol sure, I'll buy that. I thought Rask had wolf potential headed into today as well. I think I've been obvs town, your mileage varies.
I feel like the last post quoted here is something I see quite a bit from wolves in general. Basically taking the position of "I don't really want either of these wagons but if I have to choose I'll take X" where X more often than not is a partner.
dolby flips wolf, I put pressure on monstr D1, you literally do not acknowledge that pressure nor address how I could be partnered with either dolby (who said I could be town) / monstr (who did not acknowledge my existence).
There's also this, which is just not true:
We're in D2 currently, you're not top posting. You weren't top posting D1. Even by vv lax definitions of top posting you're still (checks the ISO list) in the bottom half of post counts. It's whatever though, I don't expect total accuracy, just thought this was interesting to point out.
Then today is just a continuation of yesterday
Where's re-evaluations? Where's "maybe I'm wrong, I was wrong on monstr/dolby, I didn't want to participate in Ladd and that was wrong, maybe my reads aren't the greatest and I should stop and think"?
I have more respect for your game than to assume you're lost townie here basically.
anyways, vote: dobby might as well put my money where my mouth is.
1) irl day 2, second half of d1 of that helps.
2) cool ty for doing that. It takes a lot for me to ever be top posting and even if im in thread q full day I'm not st the top
3) my read on monstr was based on a few things but also things I don't want/shouldn't talk about. I didn't think he'd tilt and react like that as wolf ever but obviously I was wrong.
4) associative reads or whatever it's called often turn out wrong at least for me so yeah even though j might do it at some point that wasn't anything I found useful to do
5) dolby tried to push me didn't he? I might be wrong about that
6) the "I didn't want to participate in ladd" is just wrong. I had sus on him throughout but I preferred you/rask at eod which I was very clear about. When I saw the wagons last minute after the shifts I was pretty clear about preferring ladd over newcom. I did suggest newcomb get the bomb because of his potential to be town and if so he'd be the best one to have the bomb. I don't think that reasoning was weird but apparently it was. And saying I don't prefer ladd/newcomb to you isn't weird when I still find it likelier for you to be wolf than the rest of the playerlist. Can't know if I'm wrong til you die, right? :)
Re reevaluations - I'm trying to actually take things that show up in consideration and have changed my reads based on that, for example on sleep that I pushed really hard early on and then got pretty convinced that he's town.
7) I wrote about your push on... I think it was ender, cba looking up, and how it didn't make sense, don't believe you've explained that part and it's one of the main reasons I still have my doubts on you.
8) saying I'm lost this game is extremely exaggerated just because I'm pushing you and was wrong on monstr. You're not helping me change my mind tbh
9) omgus? :p would you sus me if I didn't push you?
A fair bit of what you wrote there is straight up wrong or intentional misinterpretations of what I wrote and yeah it doesn't help in finding you town at all.
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 11:43
Like these are the last posts from Monty at EOD. And it doesn't make sense to shade (to the point of hinting Winston scum) the read on Ladd to sheeping it so quickly without outside, thread related influence?
Vote: Dobby
There can only be one
Imagine subbing into a game and voting your partner
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 11:44
Worth noting that Newcomb had an enterely original reaction at SOD2 ("u absolute madlads etc..."), which I may read into :)
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 11:46
Imagine subbing into a game and voting your partner
It would have been a several layer joke too. but distancing exists so yeah (I think he wasn't under much pressure at the time of this vote so I am not seeing it as clearing for you)
Dobby, can you explain to me these two posts like 5 hours apart?
I only* saw ( just in swedish is used like only) as in i saw Dolby died but I didn't see that you were sorcerer
It would have been a several layer joke too. but distancing exists so yeah (I think he wasn't under much pressure at the time of this vote so I am not seeing it as clearing for you)
Distancing as the first thing you do when subbing in when I'm townreading his slot would be pretty next level and also out of character for dolby. AND yes he wasn't under pressure. But yeah that shouldn't be clearing its just something I wanted to add when I saw it wuotef
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 11:51
can Monty and Newcomb be together? prolly not (why unvote in this case?)
hmm
Dobby: Liked his initial call out of Ladd for having too many reads too early. Thought their hesitancy on trying to figure out my alignment was natural and nuanced using a lot of our history in a way that made me think they were actually trying to figure it out. I thought Dobby just disagreeing with Newcomb and saying Sleep/Cape could be w/w was entirely against threadflow/consensus in a villagery way and then immediately arguing with Katze in 682 also came off towny to me in a way where I thought Dobby was reading posts, thinking about why they are being posted, and trying to reach conclusions from it rather than having a nefarious intent to spin posts for personal gain. The Hollowkat push was also against general thread consensus at the time. I have small concerns ? two dead wolves called villagers in the big reads list, the double posts about ?oh dolby was a wolf? like 5 hours apart making me think they might be fake, the fact that pretty much nobody else is villa reading Dobby ? but the concerns are very small and I think the overall body of work is still just villager Dobby trying to solve the game.
Nobody else is villa reading dobby usually means dobby is town tbwh
HollowKatt: I think their interactions with Monstr are interesting. Immediately called out Monstr for feeling spicy for the sake of spicy, follows up on it by reiterating it to Cuth, monstr returns by saying it's not a real thought and voting hk. That is the entirety of HK's iso that I feel I can call towny and, frankly, I'm pretty ok saying it's reasonable to expect monstr to be a bus target at that point. I don't think anything else in there feels like someone trying to solve the game and I think the case on Dobby is like, really twisty in a nefarious way. I have this slot as a possible wolf. Not a lock. Could easily still be villa. But thus far isoing everyone up to this point, this one is the least villagery to me by far
AAAAAA I love you sunbae, you're actually just writing the things that frustrate me but examining them better than me
I really need to ISO HK before EOD. I am clearing him for his Dobby vote but need to see the dynamic at the time. I had that thought yesterday that HK was actually trying to gimmic his town meta (relaxed, jokey, with solvey posts mixed in as the game progresses) but failing to sus folks convincingly. He switched to Dolby once Dolby flipped red (was starting to gear up toward my slot) and have mostly posted about him since then? hmm
Clearing him for his dobby vote? What am I missing here
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 12:02
Clearing him for his dobby vote? What am I missing here
that's a typo. I corrected it the post below; "his Dolby's vote".
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 12:03
Why did u yolo vote me EOD1?
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 12:13
I just realized Monty also yolo voted me D1. everybody did lmao. Guess I should work on my way of playing. haha
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 12:24
Yeah I can. He feels stilted, like his content is forced, and that he's struggling to get into the groove of the game.
I tend to ego solve and compare what people are doing to what I'd be doing in their positions. This would tangentially apply to cape as well tbh:
If I were a wolf in this player list I'd be extremely concerned with making the towniest posts I could make and trying to fit in with the overall flow of the game so as not to get caught out immediately. Unfortunately when I do that I tend to be really obvs a wolf as I'm basically trying too hard. Ender (and Cape) feel like they're trying too hard.
The downside to ego solving is that other people are not me (I know, this is a shocking revelation) and don't necessarily react to things the same way I would. This isn't stopping me from making the read.
And before someone asks, my "no chop" vote is totally legit. This is a player list I am going to struggle to read and seeing who dies over night if we don't chop anyone might help in solving. Otherwise I'm likely going to just sheep someone I town read that I perceive is smarter than I am, or be on some weird vanity wagon at the end of the day.
So I figured I'd throw out not chopping as an option, see what people think of that, and go from there.
and yeah I'm being serious
btw, this is the post who got me thinking HK might be a wolf trying something different. (the first part of it) I am going through his ISO quickly to see if it sticks
Why did u yolo vote me EOD1?
Because you were my second preferred option after hk and it looked like a more realistic wagon :p
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 12:36
Because you were my second preferred option after hk and it looked like a more realistic wagon :p
When did you voice it?
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 12:36
being absent is not a wolf tell for Raskol. Being a meme filled pockety jerk is though. Just fyi.
I have no read on Ladd but probably should come up with something. Cuth I think can be town, Monstr I think can be a wolf. Mostly b/c his ISO sucks a lot and by sucks a lot I mean it is entirely too short AND filled with things that read like they're spicy for the sake of being spicy, not actually things he believes in.
"Being a meme filled pockety jerk is though" lmao. you know your stuff bitch.
I lowkey wanna call you town for how you SRed Monstr prior to voting Dolby
Heres the stuff i talked about re hk, just click those links and tell me theres nothing there
hollowkatt - I talked about hollowkatt a bit, with the "motivation" behind his post, and mention briefly a lot of hk posts have pinged me as "this is just wolf". I could write a case but i'm also just, tired. The quick version with a few posts is presented here - This post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828501&viewfull=1#post2053828501). Dont think it needs explanation for that point in the game. Then there's
this (1) (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828610&highlight=#post2053828610)sequence (2) (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828647&viewfull=1#post2053828647) of (3) (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828649&viewfull=1#post2053828649) posts (4) (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828678&viewfull=1#post2053828678) that just doesn't check out. It feels like the wolf thing where you pick someone to pick on and then push slowly and then finding stuff in the answers that you can build on a case with and then hopefully land in a spot where a misyeet wouldn't look wolfy for your slot.
I'm going to do the correct thing now, and prioritise other things and then have some me time for a while before i sleep, if i show up for eod please yell at me because i really dont want to and im enjoying this game a lot and dont feel like getting upset later :P
I'll do my readslist first, i probably have two varieties, one is the GUT list that just feels right, the other one is based on like, posts in thread and what i think would be objectively correct. The motivations won't be good or lengthy unless they are, because I don't feel like doing anything more extensive right now.
dobby - ugly
nebjiamn - just straight up most reasonable posts in the game but that could possibly be because its the easiest way of thinking for me to relate to. The classic "calls out the things i want to call out kinda in the way i would do it" and just feels very yes this is so good.
Sleep - So this is a tough one because Sleep is playing well but just has this different worldview on stuff from what i have, im trying my best to see where their brain is coming from and i think i might see it being genuine town stuff. The initial case on cape where everything about it reeked of confbias and no attempt to evaluate cape felt really off, but our exchange afterwards with posts like this one (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828973&viewfull=1#post2053828973) and this one (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828988&viewfull=1#post2053828988) are very very towny fmpov. Or, fmGpov. (without gut prolly way lower)
zack - Has a lot of good posts first half of the game, together with benneh the one i nodded along with the most when i read his posts. I messed up who posted what for a bit (i thought zack posts were rask posts and referring to cape posts about winston rather than cuth so lolme), so realising that cleared up a lot of the doubts i had on zack, pretty confident town tbh.
monstrbro - town.
EnderWiggin - I've had some big doubts on this slot because a lot of thought patterns have felt feigned (i translated the word from swedish sorry if its a dumb word that doesnt make sense) but the more i think about it i feel like it's probably just from a town mindset and if i go with gut this is just town yes.
katze - nya. ayaya. I've said stuff about their newcomb reads and talked to them about it, i do (now) believe that the push is legit, especially that wall sold me on katze town tbh.
cuthillius - My gutread probably gives cuth way more cred than what i'd give his posts in isolation. It's just the way he focuses on stuff and the things he writes are way less uh "square" than when he's wolfing.
Ladd - I've been flipflopping on ladd, this post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828415&viewfull=1#post2053828415) just had way more than id expect at that point, but maybe its just the ladd way of pumping out reads and then tweaking. His later posts just feel like they have the enthusiasm and "fire" that town ladd has, especially the more (for ladd) wordy ones, it's also a bit relaxed which is nice to see. Gut says town.
Csargo - From a "haven't really caught up with all the posts and stuff" perspective, he looks pretty alright. There are some posts that feel a bit "thoughtful/digging" (theres a better word for it im sure) in a very towny way and i think with more activity and being caught up he shouldn't be on many woof lists.
Newcomb - tough one because like, kat was locked onto newcomb wolf from start and i think most of the talk about newcomb is founded in that his name has been showing repeatedly idk. I think kat didn't really sell the case well and newcomb has been doing stuff that genuinely look like they're trying to progress the game without trying to like, steer the direction of stuff, ish. Gut says idk.
Montmorency - Seems to be posting more now but idk
--
Winston Hughes - This is a tough read because uh, if I say something it'll be omgus. I hadn't paid much attention to Winston other than the Cape thoughts, which I thought were not very reasonable, but genuinely trying to understand the motivation to vote me or even put me as a wolfread out of like "whats going on in their head"ness, and i can't really do it, honestly, but I'll refrain from saying much more there for now.
Cape90 - This is a tough one. Cape feels like the designated "doesn't really fit well into thread dynamics and therefore gets a lot of (negative) attention". The pushes on cape have felt not great for other reasons than the actual cape posts being pointed out - but there's nothing about cape's content that really makes me go this is towny. Gut is telling me that this is really a town player but it's also very much not in line with what my brain tells me.
Sunbae - WEH. I wrote a few posts about Sunbae but, it's a tough one for me. If i place a W read here it's easy to attribute it to just wanting to find Sunbae W at some point in my mafia career, but, GUT tells me wolf, not gut tells me probably town. I will say the rask - sunbae interaction is the type of thing that pings me a lot as possibly w-w (as in if one is w the other one is maybe w) with how rask has approached sunbae.
Raskolnikov - Majority has been like, the monstr stuff and i don't really want to share thoughts on that except it might very well be v/v stuff. Other than that we had a short interaction where dEtAiLs were pointed out but, as a whole i kinda don't see the process at all but i still kinda like where he ends up with his reads, if that makes sense.
hollowkatt - I talked about hollowkatt a bit, with the "motivation" behind his post, and mention briefly a lot of hk posts have pinged me as "this is just wolf". I could write a case but i'm also just, tired. The quick version with a few posts is presented here - This post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828501&viewfull=1#post2053828501). Dont think it needs explanation for that point in the game. Then there's
this (1) (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828610&highlight=#post2053828610)sequence (2) (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828647&viewfull=1#post2053828647) of (3) (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828649&viewfull=1#post2053828649) posts (4) (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828678&viewfull=1#post2053828678) that just doesn't check out. It feels like the wolf thing where you pick someone to pick on and then push slowly and then finding stuff in the answers that you can build on a case with and then hopefully land in a spot where a misyeet wouldn't look wolfy for your slot.
also i havent read through stuff and moving things around so maybe stuff dont make sense.
ill proooooooooobably not be back tonight xoxo love u all ur beautiful souls
Raskolnikov this post but i also wrote stuff somewhere else, or its mostly in my notes
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 12:43
vote: Monty
https://c.tenor.com/5pGVzf5pvhsAAAAM/it-crowd-stress.gif
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 12:48
Raskolnikov this post but i also wrote stuff somewhere else, or its mostly in my notes
ok. I am not really seeing it but I will give you that it doesn't necessarily make it fake. wait and see :)
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 13:09
OK I lied.
Thing is I don't get the switch from HK ("hk posts have pinged me as "this is just wolf". I could write a case but i'm also just, tired."), to me (that u barely acknowledged as playing and wrote down as "i kinda don't see the process at all but i still kinda like where he ends up with his reads)
Looks to me you popped in at EOD to save a partner (I seemed to remember a call for a cfd on ladd, but nope, you mentionned him for the bomb but I can tell from where it comes lol, it looks like distancing too) : HK not getting any traction and cuth/me going at each other, I had potential.
Players Votes
Newcomb 2 (Enderwiggin, Sleep)
Csargo 2 (Cape90, hollowkatt)
hollowkatt 2 (Dobby, Csargo)
Raskolnikov 2 (Monstrdude, Montmorency)
ladd 2 (Winston Hughes, Cuthillius)
Sleep 2 (ladd, Newcomb)
Cuthillius 1 (Raskolnikov)
Montmorency 1 (Sunbae)
Enderwiggin 1 (zack)
1118
i kinda wanna shield sleep
hk and rask are good wagons unless something has majorly changed. csargo idk
Vote: raskolnikov
sorcerer target newcomb better, even ladd tbh
DAY IS OVER.
STOP POSTING.
00 Good, 01 Bad, as usual.
I will be posting a tally momentarily.
10 minutes for corrections.
i really dont want either ladd or newc but i prefer ladd
I am not sure what to make of Newcomb :boxedin:
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 13:11
better sheep zack and hk to glory than be good tbh
OK I lied.
Thing is I don't get the switch from HK ("hk posts have pinged me as "this is just wolf". I could write a case but i'm also just, tired."), to me (that u barely acknowledged as playing and wrote down as "i kinda don't see the process at all but i still kinda like where he ends up with his reads)
Looks to me you popped in at EOD to save a partner (I seemed to remember a call for a cfd on ladd, but nope, you mentionned him for the bomb but I can tell from where it comes lol, it looks like distancing too) : HK not getting any traction and cuth/me going at each other, I had potential.
I am not sure what to make of Newcomb :boxedin:
I mean, if anyone else voted for hk I would've stayed on him, but I'm not going to stay on a vanity wagon with 3 wagons pulling ahead, for no reason. Yes I preferred you and you had less going for you than the others. I was set on newcomb being the perfect target for sorcerer, and had less faith in you which is why I acted like I did, I don't think anything is really that weird. Who's the partner I tried to save exactly? I preferred yeeting ladd over newcomb, I think that was pretty obvious
better sheep zack and hk to glory than be good tbh
God is this really a post
I think if you try and read the post in a mindset where I'm town it all makes sense.
I prefer a hollokatt wagon, I've been trying to push for it all day.
Hollowkatt has no votes other than mine when I come back into the game during eod
I vote the next best wagon imo that still has votes, which is raskolnikov
Ladd and newcomb pull ahead, I say target newcomb with sorcerer because its very likely that.he will pick a good target if he's town, and if not, we don't really have anything huge to lose since it'll be a 1 for 1 trade. Yes in the heat of the moment I wrote that even ladd was an alright target because yes I still preferred you despite not having written an elaborate case. I hate being on vanity wagons and not making a choice at eods so I changed my vote, I would've voted ladd and honestly could have but I... just didn't?, can't say dxactly why but probably because I thought you were a realistic yoink til the last moment
Players Votes
Newcomb 2 (Enderwiggin, Sleep)
Csargo 2 (Cape90, hollowkatt)
hollowkatt 2 (Dobby, Csargo)
Raskolnikov 2 (Monstrdude, Montmorency)
ladd 2 (Winston Hughes, Cuthillius)
Sleep 2 (ladd, Newcomb)
Cuthillius 1 (Raskolnikov)
Montmorency 1 (Sunbae)
Enderwiggin 1 (zack)
1118
This was an interesting one that you linked
Me and csargo on hk
Hk and cape on csargo
Hm
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 14:48
now if rask isnt vested I wonder about this comment on the might move thing since it looked like Rask was pretty confident that Cuth was wolf.
I wasn't tbh. I was pinged by his vote and turnaround (well that might have been a joke but previous mentions of my slot by Cuth seemed to lean villa) and had identified he was my only chance to live (with Monstr AFK and Monty's vote which I took for an OMGUS), and was trying to understand what he was up to.
You are right, I was sussing Sunbae yesterday, mostly a gut read. that read didn't age well lol
if anything this "might move" is very towny (I believe this, which is why me posting it is not AI :D)
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 14:51
I mean, if anyone else voted for hk I would've stayed on him, but I'm not going to stay on a vanity wagon with 3 wagons pulling ahead, for no reason. Yes I preferred you and you had less going for you than the others. I was set on newcomb being the perfect target for sorcerer, and had less faith in you which is why I acted like I did, I don't think anything is really that weird. Who's the partner I tried to save exactly? I preferred yeeting ladd over newcomb, I think that was pretty obvious
I mean, you voted me over a wolf so this is comedy. I understand when you say I can be wrong. It's true and you can be a villager. But asking who is the partner you tried to save is theater seriously. You said ladd but you did me actually.
I mean, you voted me over a wolf so this is comedy. I understand when you say I can be wrong. It's true and you can be a villager. But asking who is the partner you tried to save is theater seriously. You said ladd but you did me actually.
I said you tbh and more than once.. and until you/hk flip I'm gonna say don't give me shit for it lol
Saying I was saving ladd is just an exaggeration though, but with seconds left of the day and snap decisions its easy in hindsight to say "you did wrong" hk>rask>ladd>newcomb and I still stand by it and always have so the picture you're trying to paint isn't really an existing one
Also I don't think I've ever voted against a teammate as wolf in a situation like that. The person is basically doomed so there less than 0 reasons to try and "save" ladd there. I'm smarter tha that as a wolf, especially if I want to go deep, and I usually do if I wolf in a non mash (or 3p which you should know from the 18er SK game :p)
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 15:00
I think if you try and read the post in a mindset where I'm town it all makes sense.
I prefer a hollokatt wagon, I've been trying to push for it all day.
Hollowkatt has no votes other than mine when I come back into the game during eod
I vote the next best wagon imo that still has votes, which is raskolnikov
Ladd and newcomb pull ahead, I say target newcomb with sorcerer because its very likely that.he will pick a good target if he's town, and if not, we don't really have anything huge to lose since it'll be a 1 for 1 trade. Yes in the heat of the moment I wrote that even ladd was an alright target because yes I still preferred you despite not having written an elaborate case. I hate being on vanity wagons and not making a choice at eods so I changed my vote, I would've voted ladd and honestly could have but I... just didn't?, can't say dxactly why but probably because I thought you were a realistic yoink til the last moment
acknowledged. it's one of these things that can't be settled on their own, because nothing that you can tell me about it will clear you, nor incrimate you definatly; but you and Monty need to be discussed
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 15:03
I said you tbh and more than once.. and until you/hk flip I'm gonna say don't give me shit for it lol
Saying I was saving ladd is just an exaggeration though, but with seconds left of the day and snap decisions its easy in hindsight to say "you did wrong" hk>rask>ladd>newcomb and I still stand by it and always have so the picture you're trying to paint isn't really an existing one
I am not trying to paint anything. I am debating about two slots and putting it out. Put yourslef in my shoes for 2 minutes. I am town and I have Dobby who voted me for raisins 2 min prior to EOD when he was missing beforehand, and Monty unvoting the wolf on the buzzer. Do you want me to just shrug it? I can't really
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 15:06
Also I don't think I've ever voted against a teammate as wolf in a situation like that. The person is basically doomed so there less than 0 reasons to try and "save" ladd there. I'm smarter tha that as a wolf, especially if I want to go deep, and I usually do if I wolf in a non mash (or 3p which you should know from the 18er SK game :p)
your words (don't think we played together already?). But I don't think ladd's slot was doomed. He had been discussed sure, but not seriously and not as a day long subject. Hell he had no votes a few minutes before EOD.
your words (don't think we played together already?). But I don't think ladd's slot was doomed. He had been discussed sure, but not seriously and not as a day long subject. Hell he had no votes a few minutes before EOD.
I mean a few minutes before eod I wasn't there, so in my perspective he was a legit wagon from start iirc :p
Also re aying together: maybe I'm misremembering. I was sk in a game where I killed a wolf d2 and then knew the last wolf but tried to play the situation in f4 and not kill the last wolk(?) But got shot by the last wolf cuz I got too cocky
I am not trying to paint anything. I am debating about two slots and putting it out. Put yourslef in my shoes for 2 minutes. I am town and I have Dobby who voted me for raisins 2 min prior to EOD when he was missing beforehand, and Monty unvoting the wolf on the buzzer. Do you want me to just shrug it? I can't really
True, I'm getting a bit too caught up in this. It just kinda feels like an omgus when hk wrote a long post with made up stuff (that I legit refute and nullify or whatever the word is) in my answer to him, its basically statements that are straight up incorrect, and get a "good post" from zack, and then you say "I'm just gonna trust em". Like, how do I put my brain in a world where are 3 are town? I don't think I'd be able to even if i got it physically planted somewhere
And yeah monty is on my agenda for the day so us cape because he's kinda flown utr.
I will say we have a really solid poe, there's always tinfoil that we can bring up, but hopefully when sunbae and zack die we have at least one more wolf dead or game is over. But just laying down flat and saying "yeah I'm just town but I need to die if you can't see it" is not a thing that's going to happen either.
Also sunbae is literally in my head with each of their posts so that should amount to something lol
I mean a few minutes before eod I wasn't there, so in my perspective he was a legit wagon from start iirc :p
Also re aying together: maybe I'm misremembering. I was sk in a game where I killed a wolf d2 and then knew the last wolf but tried to play the situation in f4 and not kill the last wolk(?) But got shot by the last wolf cuz I got too cocky
Actusllt you prolly played in a game I hosted around that time (funky phases or smth) and not this one
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 15:23
Actusllt you prolly played in a game I hosted around that time (funky phases or smth) and not this one
yeah I played the invitationnal where all players D1ed wolf!Boquise
yeah I played the invitationnal where all players D1ed wolf!Boquise
Rekt
hollowkatt
04-25-2022, 15:29
I feel some kind of way about Raskol talking about me but not to me. Dobby I saw your responses I'll have some answers later after work settles down.
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 15:30
True, I'm getting a bit too caught up in this. It just kinda feels like an omgus when hk wrote a long post with made up stuff (that I legit refute and nullify or whatever the word is) in my answer to him, its basically statements that are straight up incorrect, and get a "good post" from zack, and then you say "I'm just gonna trust em". Like, how do I put my brain in a world where are 3 are town? I don't think I'd be able to even if i got it physically planted somewhere
And yeah monty is on my agenda for the day so us cape because he's kinda flown utr.
I will say we have a really solid poe, there's always tinfoil that we can bring up, but hopefully when sunbae and zack die we have at least one more wolf dead or game is over. But just laying down flat and saying "yeah I'm just town but I need to die if you can't see it" is not a thing that's going to happen either.
Also sunbae is literally in my head with each of their posts so that should amount to something lol
my comment was a joke because we have the same reads kinda and I keep nodding at zack's posts smh. (but rejoice, this game is pretty much filled with pros. we'll win it no matter what :p)
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 15:32
I feel some kind of way about Raskol talking about me but not to me. Dobby I saw your responses I'll have some answers later after work settles down.
https://i.gifer.com/origin/4c/4c07bf97259508d4b3908a4a96b6ed9d.gif
https://media0.giphy.com/media/DnPuX6igbJWOQ/200.gif
hollowkatt
04-25-2022, 15:37
https://i.gifer.com/origin/4c/4c07bf97259508d4b3908a4a96b6ed9d.gif
https://media0.giphy.com/media/DnPuX6igbJWOQ/200.gif
I understand that timezones are a thing you absolute brussels sprout :D
Even then I expected at some point you'd drop a ping with some questions. I'm not used to you not trying to directly solve me
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 15:37
also Dobby I will try not to read into you not replying to the important stuff (Ladd's slot wasn't doomed) but to the other stuff instead (if we played together). maybe
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 15:40
I understand that timezones are a thing you absolute brussels sprout :D
Even then I expected at some point you'd drop a ping with some questions. I'm not used to you not trying to directly solve me
:D
what is the purpose of this post? (outside the excellent punchline, which I thank you for)
Are you tinfoiling my slot, for real?
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 15:43
:D
what is the purpose of this post? (outside the excellent punchline, which I thank you for)
Are you tinfoiling my slot, for real?
I mean, not rested after provoking the explosion of my partner, I go on and bus another one instead of say, just lunching Cuth for funsies (after he unvoted me)?
I am sorry we couldn't chat more aorn, but there is time still :)
hollowkatt
04-25-2022, 15:46
:D
what is the purpose of this post? (outside the excellent punchline, which I thank you for)
Are you tinfoiling my slot, for real?
you're welcome ;-)
your posting has been townie, just missing the real time interactions/probing questions you typically have for me.
also Dobby I will try not to read into you not replying to the important stuff (Ladd's slot wasn't doomed) but to the other stuff instead (if we played together). maybe
I kinda did answer that tbh but let's try again
I still... came back to thread like 5, max 10 mins before eod (I might be misremembering) and yeah calling it doomed isn't fully accurate, it was between them qnd you I guess when I joined, but I wasn't sure about vc and it was all very very stressed when i opened the game again after being absent most of the evening (despite saying I wouldn't be back, which I guess would've looked better for me, if optics would matter ;) )
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 16:01
you're welcome ;-)
your posting has been townie, just missing the real time interactions/probing questions you typically have for me.
Sure, did you have a look at newcomb or katze?
hollowkatt
04-25-2022, 16:11
Sure, did you have a look at newcomb or katze?
Yeah. Katze is just town for me. Like in their wolf games there is generally this underlying tone of "I am full of shit with everything I say so here's a lot of jokes, self-votes, and depreciating humor and a handfull of posts that attempt to be solvy" and here basically none of that exists.
I say that in the kindest possible way, not that katze is a full of shit player.
This game katze has been really straightforward with how they're approaching things. Possibly the most straightforward game I've seen them play. There's none of the fiddly bits I have come to associate with a katze wolf game.
I think they're just town.
Newcomb otoh is playing like a wolf. I can't point to anything and yell "smoking gun post here" but overall the tone of their game is very much a "defensive/pocketing" type of tone. Like there's a lot of posts in their ISO that are just aimed at specific people. I find myself wanting to town read newcomb based off of some of them, but sitting back and really looking at them I struggle to justify that feeling.
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 16:18
idk i townlean him aorn
think this post expressing concerns on sleep without throwing in the essentially "why me" post from sleep is >rand villagery
ive read and digested the sleep wallpost and sure i can play ball with it for now
vote: Cape90
https://i.imgur.com/Vt9qZ8J.png
no gold trophies? p weaksauce, broski
I am reading Newcomb and found these incidentally. :hide:
I really need to do katze afterward to see how that newcomb read has evolved (and been applied or not)
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 16:20
idk i townlean him aorn
think this post expressing concerns on sleep without throwing in the essentially "why me" post from sleep is >rand villagery
Yeah. Katze is just town for me. Like in their wolf games there is generally this underlying tone of "I am full of shit with everything I say so here's a lot of jokes, self-votes, and depreciating humor and a handfull of posts that attempt to be solvy" and here basically none of that exists.
I say that in the kindest possible way, not that katze is a full of shit player.
This game katze has been really straightforward with how they're approaching things. Possibly the most straightforward game I've seen them play. There's none of the fiddly bits I have come to associate with a katze wolf game.
I think they're just town.
Newcomb otoh is playing like a wolf. I can't point to anything and yell "smoking gun post here" but overall the tone of their game is very much a "defensive/pocketing" type of tone. Like there's a lot of posts in their ISO that are just aimed at specific people. I find myself wanting to town read newcomb based off of some of them, but sitting back and really looking at them I struggle to justify that feeling.
oh very much appreciated! I keep flipfloping on katze's slot so that's good info. still on Newcomb's ISO
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 16:29
I've skimmed ahead enough to know that people jump on this so I probably don't need to do anything here I'd imagine? I'll just hold all cape thoughts until I fully catch up.
What's cape's overall experience level?
This is a post I have a pb with for instance. Like the fact people may go after Monty for straight up talking about the mechs opening the game isn't a good reason not to if you are actually bothered by it. seems a weird line of thinking, like I am not sure Newcomb was interested, even if the post implies it.
Would his slot need to try?
(this re: neb/ben)
i dont think need is the right question, wolves dont need to do anything but my guess is that as a wolf he be doing tings to try to push villagers more
and the chainsaw defense from ladd just rings my alarm bells
it was a weird, weak reason that he kept bringing up to defend him, and he also tried to share me for voting Monty and made a post saying "one of your villa tells is when you defend lhf like Monty"
thing is he did the same thing with cape and im kind of coming around to cape being v, he cant have been chainsaw defending everyone because theres not enough wolves for that
i havent really had a problem with his posts today but i havent been assured of their towniness
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 16:57
It's not "never interact with people you wolfread you," that would be silly. It's that I don't find it productive to talk to people who wolfread me, or people I wolfread, about that read.
Like what actual good do you think it's gonna do to try to argue about this specific issue if we happen to be v/v? It would be like that meme of spider man pointing at himself.
My wolfread on you is based on a) me noticing that you were talking about me in a way that looked performative vs. having a specific read or one that seemed inquisitive. I.e. just kind of waving your hand around and going "hey guys newcomb looks wolfy" type posts. And then b) me being generally on the lookout for a wolf to try this kind of thing with me - poking at/around me specifically to get townread. Your treatment of me matched both my loose range of people who might try this, and the lack of depth in the approach to it matched my conception of the commitment someone might have to that kind of play D1.
The problem is, what are you going to say to that that's going to be productive in addressing that? "Nah bro that's not what I'd do as a wolf."? We're not arguing about the base facts of what you did, we'd be arguing about subjective interpretations about it, and what use would that be? You're biased.
And you could pretty much flip everything I just said around for you wolfreading me.
If you want my read on you to evolve and change, just play the game, show me you're invested in it, show me your thought process. If you want to find common ground with me specifically, talk to me about literally anything other than your alignment or mine.
Here, I'll start: right now what I'm considering a pivot point this game is cape vs. sleep. Going through the possible worlds where they're v/v, v/w, w/v, and w/w, what do you think the game looks like in those worlds, does anything really important stand out? Do you think any of those configurations are wildly unlikely?
how bad would it be if I call both katze/newcomb town?
Every time I try to reevaluate stuff (as in the towncored slots in any other game I play) I get accused of widening the poe so here goes, I'm widening the poe
Note that I have not paid much attention to interactions between other players, but I've focused on other stuff that I've talked about, playing it weird like a classic dobby
So not gonna touch zack and sunbae (love u both)
I've been saying cuth is one of my strongest townreads, that's also made me just put him as town and barely read anything else he has written nor what people have written about him. If I give one person out of 17 a freebie, that person is usually wolf.
Benneh has also been my absolute top town because he's just played really fucking well and prolly qlso cuz he's the one person that I feel like plays closest by far to my own way of regarding stuff and just putting it forward in a slick way, all of d1 was like aaaa yes this is what I meant but worded badly. But he's also a superpro at amogus and shits on me every game so I should maybe not just hand out a freebie just like that
Newcomb has been, uh, I still really want him to get a bomb. It should just make sense for more ppl than me. Its still viable that the wagons were w/w d1 tbh, but also, if he's town he can just.. I think he'll use it really well? And I don't think we should go too far into the game without yoinking him tbh maybe. My read on him isn't very well developed but that's cuz I was too caught up in the katze read on him yesterday.
Katze is another weh for me. I didn't like how she pushed newcomb but like the last (?) wall kat posted had some sentences that stood out as woah (smth smth I don't fear you and I would do it anyway) paraphrased. I qlso strongly disagree with hk's read that he justed posted, kat is more well nuanced especially as wolf than what hk gives cred for in his recent post (and I kinda hated that post for several reasons but it might be cuz of my hk tunnel but weh.)
Rask I wouldn't give that much cred for bussing/not bussing stuff but I need to actually read the posts from day start til bombing because I straight up haven't I just joined like just after that.
Oh and still me and csargo were on hk yesterday, hk was on csargo. Today hk and I cross vote, weh.
Monty is still a blindspot, that's on me, cape has looked weh more than once but I just haven't focused on him at all, also on me to change tbh
Ender I had a dum top post read on and I gave him cred because I thought hk was wolf, but other than that I've kinda just forgotten a lot about him and need to look back.
Sleep handled my push on him really really well and came out with a "We don't think similarly at all but yeah this person plays in a toeny way and is legit trying to solve even though its not like me"
I think that's all unless I forgot a partner or something
If i had to guess I'd tier stuff, easy solve is in the less "visible" players hk/monty/ender
But I really dont think its that ez and theres a wolf in kat/benneh/newcomb
I don't know which group i want to place rask in
Did I blow open the poe well enough?
yeah, regardless of whether or not I've got it close to right, this has been a really fun game. I forgot how enjoyable and stress free werewolf can be when you just have a chill playerlist that's trying to figure things out. Glad to hear others are enjoying themselves too. My games here are always fun and I should try to cut back on the high volume mu games and replace them with some more games here if people are game.
its been a very enjoyable and reasonably paced game :thumbsup:
Yeah. Katze is just town for me. Like in their wolf games there is generally this underlying tone of "I am full of shit with everything I say so here's a lot of jokes, self-votes, and depreciating humor and a handfull of posts that attempt to be solvy" and here basically none of that exists.
I say that in the kindest possible way, not that katze is a full of shit player.
This game katze has been really straightforward with how they're approaching things. Possibly the most straightforward game I've seen them play. There's none of the fiddly bits I have come to associate with a katze wolf game.
I think they're just town.
Newcomb otoh is playing like a wolf. I can't point to anything and yell "smoking gun post here" but overall the tone of their game is very much a "defensive/pocketing" type of tone. Like there's a lot of posts in their ISO that are just aimed at specific people. I find myself wanting to town read newcomb based off of some of them, but sitting back and really looking at them I struggle to justify that feeling.
Aaaaaaaaa i really dont like this post and i disagree with it do bsd
But qfter writing that wall my gut is yelling st me to vote cspe
been feeling a bit groggy and unproductive last night
I think a good play is voting me off, mostly because I am confident in my townreads, but I also feel like I am pretty spewed town from the 2 mafia that flipped, but in that regard I am sure wolves made sure buddies looked good too
Yeah. Katze is just town for me. Like in their wolf games there is generally this underlying tone of "I am full of shit with everything I say so here's a lot of jokes, self-votes, and depreciating humor and a handfull of posts that attempt to be solvy" and here basically none of that exists.
I say that in the kindest possible way, not that katze is a full of shit player.
This game katze has been really straightforward with how they're approaching things. Possibly the most straightforward game I've seen them play. There's none of the fiddly bits I have come to associate with a katze wolf game.
I think they're just town.
I see where this meta read is coming from
especially since in that one hydra game that me and you played as town vs katze mafia, katze was very jokey
I don't think I wanna discount katze as much as others
I just realized Monty also yolo voted me D1. everybody did lmao. Guess I should work on my way of playing. haha
Why are you just saying this now?
hollowkatt
04-25-2022, 17:15
Aaaaaaaaa i really dont like this post and i disagree with it do bsd
But qfter writing that wall my gut is yelling st me to vote cspe
so lets dialog? Yes I'm voting for you but if we can talk about things like this instead of "you case me I case you" I think both of us can come to a better understanding of each others alignments.
What don't you like about that post? Do you feel like I'm missing something? Do you feel like I'm being too vague and nebulous? what's up, lets chat
1) irl day 2, second half of d1 of that helps.
2) cool ty for doing that. It takes a lot for me to ever be top posting and even if im in thread q full day I'm not st the top
3) my read on monstr was based on a few things but also things I don't want/shouldn't talk about. I didn't think he'd tilt and react like that as wolf ever but obviously I was wrong.
4) associative reads or whatever it's called often turn out wrong at least for me so yeah even though j might do it at some point that wasn't anything I found useful to do
5) dolby tried to push me didn't he? I might be wrong about that
6) the "I didn't want to participate in ladd" is just wrong. I had sus on him throughout but I preferred you/rask at eod which I was very clear about. When I saw the wagons last minute after the shifts I was pretty clear about preferring ladd over newcom. I did suggest newcomb get the bomb because of his potential to be town and if so he'd be the best one to have the bomb. I don't think that reasoning was weird but apparently it was. And saying I don't prefer ladd/newcomb to you isn't weird when I still find it likelier for you to be wolf than the rest of the playerlist. Can't know if I'm wrong til you die, right? :)
Re reevaluations - I'm trying to actually take things that show up in consideration and have changed my reads based on that, for example on sleep that I pushed really hard early on and then got pretty convinced that he's town.
7) I wrote about your push on... I think it was ender, cba looking up, and how it didn't make sense, don't believe you've explained that part and it's one of the main reasons I still have my doubts on you.
8) saying I'm lost this game is extremely exaggerated just because I'm pushing you and was wrong on monstr. You're not helping me change my mind tbh
9) omgus? :p would you sus me if I didn't push you?
A fair bit of what you wrote there is straight up wrong or intentional misinterpretations of what I wrote and yeah it doesn't help in finding you town at all.
"but Cape is dismissive of cases on them"
been feeling a bit groggy and unproductive last night
I think a good play is voting me off, mostly because I am confident in my townreads, but I also feel like I am pretty spewed town from the 2 mafia that flipped, but in that regard I am sure wolves made sure buddies looked good too
Reql talk nobody ever looks into the reads of dead ppl so if ur town you should fite for it and never just say kil me
Imagine subbing into a game and voting your partner
you realize that was at the start of the day right?
hollowkatt
04-25-2022, 17:17
I see where this meta read is coming from
especially since in that one hydra game that me and you played as town vs katze mafia, katze was very jokey
I don't think I wanna discount katze as much as others
was jokey there, was jokey (I thought) in finals, bastard mash (though caveat it's a mash and it's bastard but tonally it's similar). Obvs it's not a hard clear but it's a read I'm comfortable making and sticking with.
man... 1604 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053829958&viewfull=1#post2053829958) says nothing
I have a feeling mafia is Mont this game. Too many things keep piling up
Vote: Montmorency
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 17:20
I think we need to start talking about consolidating.
Who's actually likely to go over today?
1. zack
2. nebjiamn
3. cuthillius
4. Ladd
5. Winston Hughes
6. Raskolnikov
7. Newcomb
8. Csargo
9. EnderWiggin
10. Sunbae
11. Montmorency
12. roro__b
13. monstrbro
14. katze
15. Sleep
16. Cape90
17. hollowkatt
Zack no, bennah... probably not though I can't off the top of my head recall anyone strongly reading bennah one way or another.
Cuth, probably not, some strong voices townread.
Ladd... interesting but I don't realistically think that's ever happening D1 here.
Winston... could see this being a LHF compromise type thing I guess? Possible.
Rask, possible
Me, not happening
Csargo, maaaaybe but kind of a long shot IMO
Ender, maybe
Sunbae, probably not happening
Monte, sure
Dobby, jury's out, see how people react to the catchup. I tend to think not.
Monster, uhhhh yeah moving on
Katz, probably not happening
Sleep, would probably be the spiciest D1 lynch that's actually on the table.
Cape, not actually sure. Can't recall what thread sentiment is on this guy.
HK, outside shot maybe
That leaves us with what, Winston/Rask/Monte as the "taking the easy way out" type options, with Monte being like the pure shot in the dark. and the two C names, Ender, and outside shot of Sleep/HK as the more information heavy but harder kills?
Does that roughly match other people's takes on thread sentiment? Open question. Feels like it's about time to get the ball rolling though.
iwannalookconsolidatingwhenIamreallyjustadisgustingscum.gif
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 17:22
oh lol. posts to ketchup
but really that one from Newcomb is bad (openly gauging the thread about the incoming yeet is a great intro to manipulating it)
I think the team could simply be mont/dobby
so lets dialog? Yes I'm voting for you but if we can talk about things like this instead of "you case me I case you" I think both of us can come to a better understanding of each others alignments.
What don't you like about that post? Do you feel like I'm missing something? Do you feel like I'm being too vague and nebulous? what's up, lets chat
Imma drive home from work but lettuce yes
I wrote about it in my wall just now but I just don't sgree with the read on kat, the "meta" stuff, kat is rxtreeeemely competent, maybe especially as wolf and that read is playing down her skills way too much even though you're saying it is with respect which I agree you're doing. I just don't see her being as polarized as you describe there.
And that you make it some kind of duality (I think that's the word) where you start off the sentence about newcomb with "on the other hand", it just feels... staged.
Fwiw I did appreciate your post answering my "find good stuff about me", or, the segment with that rather, but I would've preferred seeing like, more uh idk how to describe it. I would've liked to see some kind of yes I really want to see if I'm being tunneled/wrong and if actually the things people have said look good for dobby actually do"
Because that would be the first thing I'd do if I would make a list like that about you, I'd want to see why the people who are saying you look good, do so
you realize that was at the start of the day right?
Yes? It was q semi/ joke about dolby subbing in at the start of the day and immediately voting me. What do u even mean
HollowKatt: I think their interactions with Monstr are interesting. Immediately called out Monstr for feeling spicy for the sake of spicy, follows up on it by reiterating it to Cuth, monstr returns by saying it's not a real thought and voting hk. That is the entirety of HK's iso that I feel I can call towny and, frankly, I'm pretty ok saying it's reasonable to expect monstr to be a bus target at that point. I don't think anything else in there feels like someone trying to solve the game and I think the case on Dobby is like, really twisty in a nefarious way. I have this slot as a possible wolf. Not a lock. Could easily still be villa. But thus far isoing everyone up to this point, this one is the least villagery to me by far
I don't think this is right though
HK has given me major townpings in the way they put their words together in their longerish posts at least. Saying it's the entirety of HK's ISO feels hugely disingenuous to say the least
I think the team could simply be mont/dobby
Is it cuz I just said my gut wants to vote you or where did that came from
It feels like everyone mentioning me started to do it as soon as I talked about them or said they might be scum. Hk, rask and now cape. Imma try someone else now and see what happens
Raskolnikov
04-25-2022, 17:27
Why are you just saying this now?
I was back reading EOD1?
What do you wanna now?
Cape/mont/hk is prolly just it
I mean I know I'm poe and it's gonna be hard to get out of it so I'm relying on Sunbae to help me a little with that, I kinda just don't want to be among the first ones to die because that would be boring and sad
And a waste of handsomeness
Yes? It was q semi/ joke about dolby subbing in at the start of the day and immediately voting me. What do u even mean
I was getting at I feel like it is easy for mafia to do that with their partners at the start of each day just to like distance and stuff then hop on other people later.
I seem valid to me
I was getting at I feel like it is easy for mafia to do that with their partners at the start of each day just to like distance and stuff then hop on other people later.
I seem valid to me
Everything is safe for mafia to do until it isn't:p i started the day with a case on ladd and then wasn't as sure towards the end of the day
That's hit nr 2
(But yeah it's not a weird thought from you)
Imma try this for a bit
Vote: cape90
Just wanna see if my tummy stops yelling at me but man hk/cap HAS a wolf or riot
i caught up abd dont have a ton to add but theres two things in my mind
- i think that if newcomb is town (and that is a big if) katze is more likely a wolf than ender. katzes posts have felt all right but i dont...have strong reasons to clear her
- i'm still mighty suspicious of cuth
vBulletin® v3.7.1, Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.