Tarot Mafia

[Dolby]

Also gonna say I am straight up townreading Benneh

[EnderWiggin]

think they are a area I explore if I begin feeling that I'm wrong on the Ladd/you portion of my scumreads (mainly moreso Ladd bc Benneh/Ladd is not a full on dichotomy). I think I eval Vanta/Monty/Gemma as well. I also just don't feel like there's necessarily a wolf between them based on D1?

Vanta/Monty/Gemma I think is town/3p/town so 0 wolves.


Also gonna say I am straight up townreading Benneh

Can you talk about why? (If it's a post you've made today dw and I'll find it while catching up.)

[Dolby]

Vanta/Monty/Gemma I think is town/3p/town so 0 wolves.



Can you talk about why? (If it's a post you've made today dw and I'll find it while catching up.)

Like his posts, not much else tbh

[EnderWiggin]

Sure, if yall dont kill me first



@ender i think u should claim full role too atp

I don't see a need to.

But sure I can if a lot of people want me to.

I'm like ~not that useful esp given 1 of my 2 shots got wasted N1 from whatever reason Stett didn't get it.

[EnderWiggin]

Sunbae: I've done a review of EOD1 and D2 and Monty/Ladd/Knights/Dya look towny

Me: *Stares at d2 reads where those were 4 of my main reads.*

[Dolby]

I'm starting to suspect ladd is a wolf who's pocketing/whiteknighting me tbh, but it's hard to explain why

But when I think that there's 3-4 wolves in 14 players (right?) and that he's alive it's easy to think he's a wolf.

Like, the easiest world is it's like Gemma/Vanta/Dolby/Monte but it's never that easy. Ladd's easy to tinfoil, and then we have Knights and Benneh who I've got no clue on, and Ender who I can't remember a single d2 post from but I read he claimed pr.

Dya's town. Grr's probably town. I still want to think Jan is my D1 Town Clear and won't re-evaluate unless alive end game, if he's town pr he'll just die eventually anyway. And Maple who I don't know what his deal is.

My goal for today is finding 8 villagers, I have 3 right now +2 potential pr's. I'm soon done with work so can put some more work in when I get home.

Having Maple v for a bit may be towny disconnection with the thread state tbh given they re-evaled quickly (though I want to burn both with fire still)

though I still dislike that Wisdom is going for what I view as the easiest miselims in the thread here? Gemma/Vanta/Dolby/Monte I'm inclined to say as 0 wolves (despite my last statement saying Gemma/Vanta/Monte are places I look if wrong on ladd/ender (sidenote that I think that Monte if non-town is very likely 3p not wolf))

[Wisdom]

knights reads super towny to me, a little detail I like here is him making sure Rasks "alignment" gets framed correctly wrt vote logic, as that is something i pondered over as well immediately after he flipped. so probs just towncoring him at this point.



the role stuff goes over my head and I am a bit worried to just accept all of these conclusions as what i want to go off, but um:






knights soft clears wisdom for being firefighter in #2340 (was it ever proven she has that role in the first place?),

and also considering dyachei's role in particular (but honestly even without), can a wolf firefighter not exist without another firefighter or an arsonist at all? just to act as a rolestopper for dyachei?




also knights about #2343 I am super hesitant about clearing wisdom for a an early claim per se btw. Because they did that in the last 12h/12h game on MafiaUniverse, which is what made me like squint immediately at that lol. I think they claimed um, Neapolitan or something on there. As wolf Rolecop iirc. Like obviously "u did that last game so you're a wolf again" is a stupid read which is why I didn't verbalize it but it's been gnawing at me.





knights - said above
insomnia - idk hes being a villagery potato (he might get mad at this but i dont mean his solving just his... style of posting lol). also arctic agreeing with me makes me feel fine i dont have a reason to doubt this. - also same question about you as about dya for the same reason. why dont wolves kill u? you got a HUNCH maybe? also not related to your alignment
dyachei - claim (why are they still alive. this isnt to question their alignment but why didnt the wolves nk them? kinda odd idgi)
vanta - i vaguely like his posts and i just sheep bops n1 check on them (he was probably halfjoking about that being a serious read on the post Vanta made and i choose to not care becuz it's the funnier option hehe)

these are town imo thats where i am currently at and if i talked about others i'd be uh, not confident.

(I have not read every post that was posted today, but im kinda getting there some of you write some complicated shit ngl, just wanted to give an update lol)

mostly for Wisdom becuz im not sure this is helpful to anyone

for d1 ummm, i'm not sure what I posted in thread about you, yeah you finding me as villa for that on d1 was kinda unusual but not my bigger gripe, I just found your reaction to bop really uncharacteristic and the rest was a vague gutfeeling that didn't have THAT much to do with me. Yeah my read on you is evolving cause I'm also not good at reading you rofl. Also yes I didn't play a standard with you for ages, but we play a lotta mashes and I DO keep making it in your readslists so I DO feel you kinda think about my posting every other month in a game lol.

About me suspecting you for wolfreading me. Well. From my PoV. Arctic, ladd, stett, insomnia benneh all vouched for me being surely a villager (btw sheep and newcomb also tred me?). Now you roll into d3 and vote me. Obviously that leaves me in some confusion? I asked this before to someone else. Who of these people do you think have a terrible read on me? Who do you think is wolfing with me? I just dont know what to think. If you are a villager I wouldnt understand how you approach this game to end up in this conclusion Ig? It would seem like you would not try to make use of other villagers reads to help you solve or are p. out of touch with what has been said in the game. I'm not getting anywhere with this btw. I just reply cause I don't wanna be impolite.


You're forgetting that I'm doing what I can with limited information. I haven't read half d2 and when I don't have enough information on someone I sheep the consensus (ie Knights/Insomnia) but when I find wolfy stuff I'm gonna point it out.

Last game I had here I was pushed all game because my reads weren't consensus. I was wrong on Syn being wolf and he got yeeted d1. I had Logic town d1-d3 and then he got misyeeted. I had Benneh/Hally in my PoE almost all game despite both being consensus town read and after I got misyeeted Hally continued to solo win.

I have good intuition and I know to trust myself and that sometimes it's better to listen to others and sometimes I should listen to my gut and my reasons.

Like, the knights posts I've seen all have looked towny but not unfakeable. Same with Sunbae. And since they aren't focused in thread, I don't prioritze trying to find micro stuff on them because that's going to be easier with more flips anyway.

[EnderWiggin]

oh boy

two people claiming to have visited two dead villagers

what a nightphase

next we'll find out ender visited stett last night

If I say I did would it make you happy? =P

(I didn't visit anyone last night.)

[EnderWiggin]

I might be a sucker but the Wisdom "Vote: Grr" "Unvote: I was looking at the wrong day" sequence reads kinda town to me.

[Jan]

sup jan

do u think we're bluhblublughbulmgluhbuhbuhluh for sussing ladd

i own a home of my very own now apparently

whoshamammythunkit

not really?
He is in the poe, but I don't know if he is more sus than he was yesterday.

I am trying to process if knights still tunneling me right now is a terrible village tunnel or a wolf using a crutch.
And it annoys me. A part of me wants to jail him spam "a/s/l?" in prison all night and kill him if he doesn't make me chuckle.

But I should pick someone that is more likely to flip wolf tbh.

Ladd wanting Maple dead when I can at least confirm that the invert part of the claim is real is another problem.
Not sure if I am giving too much leeway or not.
Not sure if Maple is be wolf kp that got inverted and still keeps it. (Inverting is more twisting than fully changing roles a far as I can tell).
The World claim fits well with the roleclaim (world is the last and highest card of the high arcana to my limited knowledge, which fits with the ability to draw all those lower cards).
"Whenever it comes up, this card represents what is truly desired."

I will not bet the game on a claim being a good flavor fit. But it does give me pause and adds to my doubt.

[Wisdom]

I was wrong on Syn being wolf and he got yeeted d1

But I also voted Visor who was wolfing. I don't always follow the same path thread does but that doesn't mean I'm wrong. Like I said earlier, in US timed games like this I'm just in my own cloud trying to solve the game by myself

[Jan]

...

Does Jailkeeper block non-killing actions?

If so (Respectfully) fuck you.

I roleblocked stett n1

AND

protected her from death.

Anything you did to her should have gone through as long as it is non-lethal.

[Wisdom]

Jan claimed N2 inverted.

And no, I'm not gonna guess who they are because I think they're town and if they're town them staying hidden = better.

Ah
Did Jan claim jk yesterday?
Why would town invert that and what does it even mean?

[EnderWiggin]

not really?
He is in the poe, but I don't know if he is more sus than he was yesterday.

I am trying to process if knights still tunneling me right now is a terrible village tunnel or a wolf using a crutch.
And it annoys me. A part of me wants to jail him spam "a/s/l?" in prison all night and kill him if he doesn't make me chuckle.

But I should pick someone that is more likely to flip wolf tbh.

Ladd wanting Maple dead when I can at least confirm that the invert part of the claim is real is another problem.
Not sure if I am giving too much leeway or not.
Not sure if Maple is be wolf kp that got inverted and still keeps it. (Inverting is more twisting than fully changing roles a far as I can tell).
The World claim fits well with the roleclaim (world is the last and highest card of the high arcana to my limited knowledge, which fits with the ability to draw all those lower cards).
"Whenever it comes up, this card represents what is truly desired."

I will not bet the game on a claim being a good flavor fit. But it does give me pause and adds to my doubt.

What if I told you I believe the core of Maple's claim is true but just think it's a wolfy role esp with how limited I feel like most of the full claimed town have been?

Like Maple has implied they can provide unlimited cards (esp with a card N1 and supposedly one N2.)

When every other town has very strongly implied a restriction except maybe the Jailkeeper in terms of how often you can use the power.

Inventer feels more like a wolf role in that context shrug.

[EnderWiggin]

I roleblocked stett n1

AND

protected her from death.

Anything you did to her should have gone through as long as it is non-lethal.

Eh.

Well that leaves me at a loss as to why Stett didn't notice anything. :/

[EnderWiggin]

Look, I'm sorry if this comes off rude Wisdom

But most of your questions have been talked about in thread already.

Esp Jan's claim and timing.

And it's 1:30am for me. And I'm trying to get caught up and post thoughts I want into thread before sleeping for work. Which I'm already under-sleep for.

I just don't have time to hand-hold you through this shit when it's in thread already.

[Wisdom]

Vote: Maple

[Jan]

Jan claimed N2 inverted.

And no, I'm not gonna guess who they are because I think they're town and if they're town them staying hidden = better.

I have an idea, but my lips are sealed because it does not matter. (until it does)

[Wisdom]

Look, I'm sorry if this comes off rude Wisdom

But most of your questions have been talked about in thread already.

Esp Jan's claim and timing.

And it's 1:30am for me. And I'm trying to get caught up and post thoughts I want into thread before sleeping for work. Which I'm already under-sleep for.

I just don't have time to hand-hold you through this shit when it's in thread already.

Rude!

[Dolby]

That was 100% what I thought he was doing tbh

then why have Maple in your townreads at this moment in time after 3 people who were consensus town (maybe arctic wasn't 100% consensus and still pretty townread) died?

[Jan]

What if I told you I believe the core of Maple's claim is true but just think it's a wolfy role esp with how limited I feel like most of the full claimed town have been?

Like Maple has implied they can provide unlimited cards (esp with a card N1 and supposedly one N2.)

When every other town has very strongly implied a restriction except maybe the Jailkeeper in terms of how often you can use the power.

Inventer feels more like a wolf role in that context shrug.

The restriction was that he can only self-target and the inventions are rather random.
Being inverted seems to be upgrade or at least a twist that changes utility.

I don't know. either maple is the scapegoat for wolves to sacrifice that somehow has the best claim or the villager that is most vulnerable.
And with each additional scummy person pushing the slot I get more worried.

[dyachei]

grr

did you miss the part of Jan JKing me last night? That's why Im alive

[Jan]

Ah
Did Jan claim jk yesterday?
Why would town invert that and what does it even mean?

I claimed pr and said that I don't think my role could be inverted. (my assumption was inverse of protect + roleblock would be kill + motivate, which was weird but if it works I would not mind it)

And then got inverted at night.

I only claimed jk today. I wanted to wait for ender to arrive and wait for his claim because some people tried to push protective on him yesterday.
But I realized that it does not actually make a difference and my info might help solve mech stuff. (night kill, inverter etc). plus I love how my role got inverted and wanted to share it. :X

[Jan]

grr

did you miss the part of Jan JKing me last night? That's why Im alive

we do not know that. wolves not targeting you is more likely considering amount of people that died.
Or did I miss any important context?

[Wisdom]

then why have Maple in your townreads at this moment in time after 3 people who were consensus town (maybe arctic wasn't 100% consensus and still pretty townread) died?

I didn't. You misunderstood me (I wasn't very clear). He and Ender should have been in between the other two piles as a "possibly pr" pile. I just didn't think about him (mainly due to not knowing if he had already done his self resolving or not) until the end and editing posts on phone is hell.

Also, I didn't mean that all 4 in Gemma/you/Vanta/Monte are wolves, just that it would make the game easier if you were (and I didn't have any tr's there but I think your recent posts are towny). Wolf!Ladd and Wolf!Manti are both hard to yeet.

[EnderWiggin]

The restriction was that he can only self-target and the inventions are rather random.
Being inverted seems to be upgrade or at least a twist that changes utility.

I don't know. either maple is the scapegoat for wolves to sacrifice that somehow has the best claim or the villager that is most vulnerable.
And with each additional scummy person pushing the slot I get more worried.

Hi I'm scummy person #3 coming for Maple's ass.

But unlimited Self-targeting Inventor sounds ~fine? Vs limited shots and other restrictions.

But even mech aside, I'm having trouble seeing a world where Maple's "I'm self-resolving!" plea right before a 3 death night is anything but a play to stay alive to unload KP. Esp with the lame-duck "Oh oopsie I sent my card to dead Arctic." as the follow up.

As for everyone piling on now, if Maple has sent off all the main KP they had, then wolves might have just accepted they have to bus today because there's no saving Maple.

I know if I was partners with Maple that'd be my read of gamestate.

[Jan]

Sometimes you read a thread and think "It feels like only villagers are playing right now".

For some reason reading the last page makes me feel the opposite.

[EnderWiggin]

I claimed pr and said that I don't think my role could be inverted. (my assumption was inverse of protect + roleblock would be kill + motivate, which was weird but if it works I would not mind it)

And then got inverted at night.

I only claimed jk today. I wanted to wait for ender to arrive and wait for his claim because some people tried to push protective on him yesterday.
But I realized that it does not actually make a difference and my info might help solve mech stuff. (night kill, inverter etc). plus I love how my role got inverted and wanted to share it. :X

As a side note:
Claiming to not be sure how you'd be invertable was great inverter bait

[Wisdom]

Btw grr reason I claimed pr d2 last game was because that's how I play as town unless it's a super important role. I think d2 claims are op because it makes life so much harder for wolves. Even d1 bucket steat is op but that's just really boring. Much better to use it to steer town into a better path when people are waisting too much time trying to solve me!

+ Claims are pretty much obligatory in roleflipless. In my homecom (full flipless) I always claim doc in f3 and win because people suck at claiming before dying.

[EnderWiggin]

Sometimes you read a thread and think "It feels like only villagers are playing right now".

For some reason reading the last page makes me feel the opposite.

Dolby, Wisdom, and I thought it'd be funny to distance in thread. Sorry you had to come in while that was going on.

[Dolby]

Jan

Maple is a dead player walking today imo? I think that Maple is a wolf and is going over bc they were probably gonna be the d2 from having a bad eod1 that looks worse now that rask flipped 3p. Maple is always dying today since a living player didn't get the card. Honestly I think Maple's cards are real but they are not clearing and they might have activated their PGO and Arctic tried to shoot her (and the PGO granted death immunity).

Lets look at the votes on Maple over the course of the game before today

Maple's first vote comes on D2 despite being moderately sussed by a few people d1. That vote comes from didistetter a dead town

Next vote comes from ladd. I think that Ladd is possibly teammed with Maple. I talked a bit in a prior post that despite being on Maple for a good part of the day there wasn't really any effort from ladd to get other people onto Maple, and maple wasn't really mentioned by ladd in the meantime much despite being his vote. Ithink it's partnered

Dolby (that's me!) is the next vote on Maple, I'm town

Gemma votes Maple, I guess Gemma could be mafia but I feel that it's pretty likely that Syn was the only major wolf wagon at eod1

Rask votes Maple, dead 3P

Insomnia votes Maple, I think Insomnia is just a villager, had a good D1, and is maybe threadspewed

Benneh votes Maple, I think Benneh is fine, could be a wolf but I think he's fine

I am not concerned that suspicious people are getting on Maple on Day Three. I'm ignoring D3 bc I think that over the course of teh day 2/3rds of people are going to have votes on Maple. I think that suspicious people avoided having their votes be on Maple d2. So to be quite frank I am not concerned that Maple is being pushed, they are kinda the presumptive yeet.

[Jan]

Hi I'm scummy person #3 coming for Maple's ass.

But unlimited Self-targeting Inventor sounds ~fine? Vs limited shots and other restrictions.

But even mech aside, I'm having trouble seeing a world where Maple's "I'm self-resolving!" plea right before a 3 death night is anything but a play to stay alive to unload KP. Esp with the lame-duck "Oh oopsie I sent my card to dead Arctic." as the follow up.

As for everyone piling on now, if Maple has sent off all the main KP they had, then wolves might have just accepted they have to bus today because there's no saving Maple.

I know if I was partners with Maple that'd be my read of gamestate.

You are #7, maybe #8. Sorry most of the cred is already gone.

[Wisdom]

What does PGO mean when it doesn't mean Pokémon GO?

[grr]

grr

did you miss the part of Jan JKing me last night? That's why Im alive

yeah did miss it, um. well i mean if u were also a designated wolfkill then we'd be dealing with like, dealing with 3? wolf kills in one night tho wtf. yeah idk whats going on.
insomnia btw what are we doing if maple flips town and ur dead tomorrow xD we have still time but im not sure what I should be doing then rofl.
Wisdom yeah alright seen ur reply (i'd say hally decidedly ain't me but im not stopping you from forming ur own opinions you do you, i am not rly getting anything out of this rn so i dont wanna keep being entangled in it!)

I'll get back when I think I can contribute something useful sorry bronanas.

[Dolby]

What does PGO mean when it doesn't mean Pokémon GO?

Paranoid gun owner.

Maple claimed to give herself a one shot PGO N1. Knights brought up that Arctic said that his flavor (death) was a likely KP role (pretty much a soft to be found after his death that he was a town vig of some sort), and Maple was at the very bottom of his last reads list.

My personal take is that Arctic died trying to shoot maple and maybe Maple also had a shield from a card? Can't really see any other world besides him being roleblocked or redirected into Bop or Stett, which I doubt.

[Jan]

Maple

do you pick your card target during the day or at nighttime?

[ladd]

i'd honestly still like ender to claim cause i still feel the mech aspect of the game is a bit of a mess right now but i know i am not in a position to request anything

jan/dya are villagers ldo

dolby/insomnia/grr are my next clears



i still find it super hard to buy the firefighter claim mechanically speaking ngl

[EnderWiggin]

Alrighty I need to re-review Ladd because I could be wrong and a lot of people think it.

But aside from that I think my current line is like...

Maple > One of Benneh/Sunbae > Wisdom/Dolby/Insom?

I'm gonna assume one of the wolves is deep in general because I'm townreading a lot of people.

I kinda liked a few of Insom's posts tbh which makes me wanna remove them off that list, but idk.

I think Dya/Knights/Jan are town. Vanta is more along their town play than wolf. Gemma I think the same.

Grr I like but don't have a ~solid reason to think they're definitely town.

And Monty is 3p.

[EnderWiggin]

You are #7, maybe #8. Sorry most of the cred is already gone.

Shit. I wanted to be high tier scummy :(

[ladd]

And Monty is 3p.

Yeaaa I don't really buy this. I seriously doubt visor put 2 neutral itg and monty pushed rask eod1 so it's not like he is likely to be aligned with
rask if thats the origin of him being 3p theory



With that being said - I have no clue what monty is doing

[EnderWiggin]

Anyway, I'm actually awake to say g'night this time instead of falling asleep at my computer while reading.

I'll be back at my regularly scheduled time, about 20-22ish hours from now.

[EnderWiggin]

Yeaaa I don't really buy this. I seriously doubt visor put 2 neutral itg and monty pushed rask eod1 so it's not like he is likely to be aligned with
rask if thats the origin of him being 3p theory



With that being said - I have no clue what monty is doing

Monty is either town or 3p imo.

I stand by my read that his EOD1 isn't paired with Syn.

I said 3p because like... I just don't understand his play and that makes more sense.

Also to be clear:
I don't think he was actually paired with Rask.

[Jan]

Anyway, I'm actually awake to say g'night this time instead of falling asleep at my computer while reading.

I'll be back at my regularly scheduled time, about 20-22ish hours from now.

sleep well and don't let the bedladds bite you.

[Wisdom]

ladd/wisdom/maple mainly

ender or not ender depending on what he claims

1 sec i'll make a readlist for u

v
dya
grr
-
insom
-
nee
jan
sunbae
dolby
-
mont
- null
neb
vanta
ender
-
wisdom
maple
-
ladd
w

Gemma has pretty much the same reads as I do.

If she's w/w with both Maple and Ladd I don't think her only focus today would be ladd/maple/wisdom.

So if Ladd/Maple are w/w I don't think Gemma is wolfing but Gemmas play is quite narrow/static from what I've seen so she probably still a wolf.

Implying Maple/Ladd not being w/w.

[insomnia]

if manti is not wolf, you just kill ladd. but even if manti is a wolf i'd still consider him

we're 3 days in and i don't want to be a d***, but ladd has done nothing but stalling all of these days. villa ladd has a push he can make by now and the ones he attempted to do were all on villas, which i've already said

there's just no strong callout on anyone anymore or an attempt to shake things up and it's starting to only get wolfier and wolfier as the game progresses

he needs to push someone and / or make a case toDay or at least let us know who his wolf reads are and why. this attitude of just calling villas and shying away from calling wolves I don't associate with his villa play at all

[insomnia]

i think it's hard for the wolves to push people especially when erryone has a DAMN CLAIM

his posting ever since d2 has felt like he's simply walking on eggshells in a way that is pinging the hell out of me. he's really careful with his callouts to the point where he just shades a few people for some things and then just does nothing but reinforce villa reads. this has felt like his gameplay all game long except his pushes (which were more shades than pushes imo) have all been villas thus far

if he's not a wolf then i really struggle with the game. i think it's pretty obvious from his position if V that not all the claimers can be wolves and he's left with only a few names to dig in, but most importantly i really hate that he doesn't focus on benneh / sunbae here when it feels like that's an obvious blindspot to reaearch

apparently he's pushing wisdom / maple is what i'm gathering

[insomnia]

ladd / maple / benneh / sunbae / wisdom / montmorency remain my PoE. idk, if this is like 1/4 or 2/4 then idek where to look at. is the entire team just claiming PRs? i doubt so

i kinda like dolby's posting even though i really hated some of the things he was pointing out cuz they seemed really bad faith. don't ask me for examples

i don't really get why ender is being pushed

we have a dozen PR claims and no conclusive thoughts on benneh / sunbae who have nothing going for them. benneh actually was pushing ender which is just really bad to me, but I guess I could be heavily underestimating Ender's wolfing prowess, he just seems villagery to me /shrug. kinda feels like the times I had him wolf where times where i'd just open his ISO and not think anything of him or I'd have to really force myself to find reasons to villa read him, whereas in here I just holistically villa read him on everything. toan, solving, all of it

[Dolby]

Ladd is Benneh a wolf read of yours rn and if so can they or are they more likely to be a wolf with Wisdom? I feel like Benneh/Wisdom has been an interesting link point in your reads over the game. In that like, you've called Wisdom mildly towny d1 then a wolf d2, but Benneh called you a likely wolf if Wisdom was a wolf and idk there's been some posts you've quoted from Benneh where Benneh had Wisdom as the focus of the post and I don't think you really needed to have a take on this before now (maybe Benneh having a post basically saying he wanted to go Wisdom -> you if Wisdom red is an exception), but I'd like a take on if Benneh is wolf and if Benneh/wisdom can be teammed from you.

[insomnia]

i guess i don't like that ladd is using the PRs as cover for wolf pushes

my point is not that he doesn't push specifically sunbae / benneh. my point is that he is not researching the wolves outside the PR claimers, which is how we'll win the game. the PR claimers that are wolves are going to be resolved eventually without us doing anything, unless the wolves wish to keep them all alive

(but i do think there's 2/3 in sunbae / benneh / ladd, and maple is a wolf)

[ladd]

i guess i don't like that ladd is using the PRs as cover for wolf pushes

my point is not that he doesn't push specifically sunbae / benneh. my point is that he is not researching the wolves outside the PR claimers, which is how we'll win the game. the PR claimers that are wolves are going to be resolved eventually without us doing anything, unless the wolves wish to keep them all alive

(but i do think there's 2/3 in sunbae / benneh / ladd, and maple is a wolf)

i'll answer the rest tomorrow cause i dont have time right now to give an answer that would be of any help to u nor dolby

but my bottom 4 yesterday was literally sunbae/benneh/maple/monti. u expect me to push them hard but its august i am lazy and i dont feel like pushing people hard this game, thats genuinely all there is to it

[Montmorency]

when i say 'spk' I mean 'strong player kill' which has the connotation of meaning 'nightkill someone who is a very strong villager who will clear themselves and is likely to solve the game if cleared/alive in lylo'. And while didistetter is definitely able to clear themselves, they are still a relatively new player, at least relative to this player list, so they wouldn't be someone i would typically kill n1, normally it would be like ladd/benneh/sunbae/newcomb in this player list IMO (which is why three of the four still being alive is worrying).

In the world that i'm talking about (raskol = neut arsonist) he was fake claiming villa kp to possibly escape elim (several people who were possible wagons were claiming, he was a viable wagon, he would be able to demonstrate KP n2 if he was an arsonist). Obviously it would potentially limit his lifespan but a) if you get elimed you're dead anyways lol and b)arsonists more often than not are neutral.

I think most people are overthinking it ATM.

And yes i'm kinda using wisdom's claim to decide he's an arsonist, but wisdom claiming firefighter and then having a neutral flip that day seems too wild for me to doubt IMO. And since there wasn't a counter claim to firefighter I think wisdom is essentially always villa because it seems unlikely the setup would be just a wolf firefighter. (and even if there was a weird setup where that was the case, Wisdom wouldn't know that was the setup, and would have to assume he would get counterclaimed by a villa firefighter, and therefore wouldn't claim like he did)



One thing I failed to consider is that since there was only 2 kp shown n1 (and dya claims the shot on sheep) its technically possible that Jan did get a save on didistetter n1. the death of didistetter n2 might also make sense in that context because they killed didi after a saved kill n1.

that would be a lot of kp in a 22 person game tbh, but depending on the setup its possible.

No one said anything about you killing someone. The Mafia killed someone by their own strategy, right? Without speaking for Mafia, as far as the consensus town goes as of the state of play N1, if stetter was the gold, NC was the silver. At least, you could say they were comparably-reasonable NKs.

Without going back and forth on our interpretations of WIFOM, we should know to a fair degree of certainty as of SOD 4 whether an arsonist has died.

In general, I would be careful with inference from lack of CCs in a role-flipless game. A lot of townies are already dead.

Separately, it might be time to put together a proposed outline for the PR structure of the game.

We could figure, going by claims (knights' world):

* Rask Neutral vig (arson?)
* Ender Town unknown
* Jan Town JK
* dya Town 1-shot vig
* Maple Town inventor
* ? gifted by inventor
* Wisdom Town firefighter
* Arctic Town vig??
* ? Town? inverter??

Plus any unknown dead PRs.

Does that add up? It doesn't for me, although t-Jan always dies before t-Wisdom I should think.

[Montmorency]

I think he had bop v but I’m on phone and can’t check

its also possible he targeted maple, who he sus quite a bit and died to a pgo/reflexive mill

Did Maple make a serious gun owner claim or was that another joke? I can't parse. But either way, that sounds too YOLO for vig-Arctic to mess with. I think Arctic was just SPK. I practically town-cored him D1. Mafia always kills stetter, Arctic, and NC ASAP, no less for being like the top posters.


For the rest i dont agree with clearing wisdom from rask flip cause i dont think visor would put a firefighter just to ckunter a poor neutral. Like u are really putting a neutral arso itg which is super hard to play and also giving thr village a counter? Iyam no

Great point.


Montmorency why did you vote and unvote Rask at EOD1? Why didn't you end on Syn? relying on rask's read?

For info, obviously. I didn't vote Syn because there was no point, he was buried.


I definitely would try to claim I did something to the person I doused right before lighting them on fire.

That sounds like a great career move./s

I don't recall accusing you of being an arsonist. Weird reaction. Don't slip on me.

Rask, btw, had a rather town-meta reaction to dya's CC IMO. When Rask gets into thunderdome territory or adjacent he becomes quite ornery as town IME. Also, leave 3P alone, you have nothing on Rask. So, who did you target N2?


Ladd townread was built around how he didn't feel like he was actively pushing a worldview. Like contrast to the game as wolf where on D1 he aggressively pushed me and would've flipped me D1 if it wasn't for Pizza and shenanigans around that.

And the game we were w/w where we distanced hard but then at EOD he was hard pushing a villager and helped me vote out Newcomb.

Both of those cases he actively was trying to cultivate a wagon, and here it just didn't feel like he had a solid direction in mind D1.

Maybe this is a stupid read but I liked it.

But it feels like a weak defense when people who have played with him more than I have start talking about how he's matching his wolf meta. And maybe it's a very slim margin but I felt like I have seen some of ladd's wolf play. Maybe lightning struck twice and I'm off base.

Compare ladd's treatment of dyachei, and maybe Kagemusha, in that game, to how he treated syn in this game. Very similar structure.

Even now no one has an idea of what the hell "inverted" is.


Wisdom is likely just a wolf with Maple Ender

Wisdom if you were scumreading Maple, why not mention it until I asked you directly? Given the position of Maple since mid-D2 that should be a slot of great interest

I think it's very possible that the inverter is town, didn't understand that inverters wasn't a strict debuff, and targetted Maple N1 thinking it was a debuff

Then probably targetted Jan N2 after Maple claimed they were self-resolvable from it bc Jan doesn't look the best but looks like the best or second best of the PR claims depending on your personal take

How does ladd-Ender-Maple-Wisdom sound? Bingo bango? Just remember that ladd-Gemma-Wisdom doesn't work.

But I really think ladd is the linchpin. If the PR claims all turn out legit, having ladd dusted is the difference between victory and defeat. Steamrolling Town PRs Maple and Wisdom because they're sketchy is a literal game-winning Mafia dream because it likely puts us at LYLO.


If I say I did would it make you happy? =P

(I didn't visit anyone last night.)

Why?


Dolby, Wisdom, and I thought it'd be funny to distance in thread. Sorry you had to come in while that was going on.

No antispewing.


Paranoid gun owner.

Maple claimed to give herself a one shot PGO N1. Knights brought up that Arctic said that his flavor (death) was a likely KP role (pretty much a soft to be found after his death that he was a town vig of some sort), and Maple was at the very bottom of his last reads list.

My personal take is that Arctic died trying to shoot maple and maybe Maple also had a shield from a card? Can't really see any other world besides him being roleblocked or redirected into Bop or Stett, which I doubt.

I'm not great at interpreting the subtleties of softs in general, but is there any more evidence for that conclusion on Arctic as KP? But even if he was, why would he butt heads with someone who claimed PGO?

[Montmorency]

Note: From D1, ladd-Gemma-Wisdom is rejected.
Note: I could swear Maple had promised to shoot within my solve, but I can't find that anywhere. Did I hallucinate it? Because if not, it would be an odd thing for an inventor with no despo shots to promise.
Note: I think Town has lost control of the thread today. My wim is fading.


Sometimes you read a thread and think "It feels like only villagers are playing right now".

For some reason reading the last page makes me feel the opposite.

lolsob



Re: Maple's gift, I'm stupid. He emphasized gifting Arctic, and Arctic is dead, so naturally no one could claim the gift today. Dolby why did you thank my other post instead of pointing out the logical failure?

[Dolby]

Arctic said that he thought that the death flavor was likely town KP, and then when he died his flavor flipped as death

I think that was the only flavor comment he made the whole game

Maple claimed to give herself a one shot PGO N1 (she claimed to NOT use it last night) and that she gave her N2 card to Arctic

If anyone wants to claim to have visited maple last night that could be useful. I didn't

ladd-ender-wisdom-maple is my current team but I have a much higher level of doubt on ender rn. I think that Maple is just a sure hit

[Dolby]

Monty, I think I thanked that post bc I wanted to indicate to you that I intended to ask Maple what her minor arcana (the inventions she's gifting out) did. I don't think I registered that you didn't realize Arctic was the claimed target

[Montmorency]

Arctic said that he thought that the death flavor was likely town KP, and then when he died his flavor flipped as death

I think that was the only flavor comment he made the whole game

Maple claimed to give herself a one shot PGO N1 (she claimed to NOT use it last night) and that she gave her N2 card to Arctic

If anyone wants to claim to have visited maple last night that could be useful. I didn't

ladd-ender-wisdom-maple is my current team but I have a much higher level of doubt on ender rn. I think that Maple is just a sure hit

Yeah, but are comments like that crumbs, or just Apophenia?

I'm going to struggle my way through finishing and ISOing D1 for Syn and wagonomics. Maybe it'll reveal something beyond my world around Ender et al. But it's hard for me to find the motivation to fully analyze anyone while ladd's alive. Be assured that however ladd flips, I would take a close look at Ender first of all.

But that still doesn't explain why Arctic would attack someone who claimed automatic point defense (leaving aside the apparent Maple claim that it didn't activate).

Otherwise, if t-Maple/m-ladd, then everything tomorrow rides on you and insomnia being alive and town.

[Sunbae]

My wim is fading.



I had a lot last night but I think waking up and catching up has removed it. Which is fine. Old me would have dug their heels in and forced themself to barrel through despite the fact that nobody really cares about anything I'm saying (and havent all game!) until people got the message. It's why I was rarely mischopped! New me just caught up and said "hm, alright then, yall do you and ill go to lunch and say glgl" which, tbh, feels absolutely divine.

[Sunbae]

Monty seems pretty villagery fwiw

[Dolby]

Yeah, but are comments like that crumbs, or just Apophenia?

I'm going to struggle my way through finishing and ISOing D1 for Syn and wagonomics. Maybe it'll reveal something beyond my world around Ender et al. But it's hard for me to find the motivation to fully analyze anyone while ladd's alive. Be assured that however ladd flips, I would take a close look at Ender first of all.

But that still doesn't explain why Arctic would attack someone who claimed automatic point defense (leaving aside the apparent Maple claim that it didn't activate).

Otherwise, if t-Maple/m-ladd, then everything tomorrow rides on you and insomnia being alive and town.

This is a role flipless game, I believe that he left that intending for it to be remembered after his death so that any kills he made couldn't be fake claimed by mafia

I don't think there's a reason for him to mention his own flavor, without prompt, as town, and say that that flavor is likely a KP role. This is the only thing he did it to I think

I think that Arctic just thought that Maple's claim was BS. He had Maple as his biggest sus at the end of day.

I am admitidly not that confident that he shot Maple specifically, he could have been redirected or roleblocked instead, but I don't think with three kills he was roleblocked and I think the explanation I just laid out makes more sense than him being identified and redirected AND killed

Also me saying I had most doubt on Ender was that Ender is my least confident wolfread.

If it helps I re-ISOd Vanta recently, didn't say anything about it but I think they are probably town still. Gemma/Sunbae/Benneh are probably the other slots I have to reevaluate

[Dolby]

Also: I don't think wolves are in control today. I think that Maple is just a hit, I think Maple would have been a hit yesterday. If it is Sunbae/Benneh we still have time to catch them but I should work to make myself more confident in them (particularly Sunbae). I will reread Gemma but I still think the circumstances of D1 make Gemma and Knights town (I have Knights good on like, every front).

Sunbae at present what are your strongest reads?

[Sunbae]

ladd / maple / benneh / sunbae / wisdom / montmorency remain my PoE. idk, if this is like 1/4 or 2/4 then idek where to look at. is the entire team just claiming PRs? i doubt so

i kinda like dolby's posting even though i really hated some of the things he was pointing out cuz they seemed really bad faith. don't ask me for examples

i don't really get why ender is being pushed

we have a dozen PR claims and no conclusive thoughts on benneh / sunbae who have nothing going for them. benneh actually was pushing ender which is just really bad to me, but I guess I could be heavily underestimating Ender's wolfing prowess, he just seems villagery to me /shrug. kinda feels like the times I had him wolf where times where i'd just open his ISO and not think anything of him or I'd have to really force myself to find reasons to villa read him, whereas in here I just holistically villa read him on everything. toan, solving, all of it

Hey so you've been just saying "oh idk, has nothing going, link to benneh" for 3 game days now. Just read my posts and decide if im a villager or wolf!

[Maple]

Maple

do you pick your card target during the day or at nighttime?

Like I said, the selection is a day action. The card may then be immediately used that night. Hence my claim of immediate eod feedback.

The upside to this is it can't be blocked or intercepted.

[Sunbae]

Also: I don't think wolves are in control today. I think that Maple is just a hit, I think Maple would have been a hit yesterday. If it is Sunbae/Benneh we still have time to catch them but I should work to make myself more confident in them (particularly Sunbae). I will reread Gemma but I still think the circumstances of D1 make Gemma and Knights town (I have Knights good on like, every front).

Sunbae at present what are your strongest reads?

My personal strongest reads are Dya/Knights lock villagers on my own thoughts, grr villa by sponging half the threads dead villagers, jan probably v (i thought I may have caught a mixup but I dont think i did anymore and others are saying jan obv v). In a tier below is Monty villa. Not 3p, specifically villa.

My personal against the grain read is i think ladd is a villager from eod1 but I know going to bat for that in current thread state is devastating if wrong so I'm waiting a bit to see what he posts and if I can lock it in more confidently

[Jan]

Like I said, the selection is a day action. The card may then be immediately used that night. Hence my claim of immediate eod feedback.

The upside to this is it can't be blocked or intercepted.

It is what I thought. Just double checking.
In that case I could target you and vice versa.
If I don't get a card you get executed.

Not sure if the village supports this off, but we both have day actions now apparently.

[Maple]

Maple why did you target Arctic of all people? Feels like a clumsy pick if you're town betting your "able to self resolve" on your target, and you're not a clumsy player.

Because I had to target a player reasonably likely to be a villager who had less odds of dying. I figured bop was always dying, I figured the wolves would kill into the PRs, so I went with Arctic.

[Montmorency]

This is a role flipless game, I believe that he left that intending for it to be remembered after his death so that any kills he made couldn't be fake claimed by mafia


Also me saying I had most doubt on Ender was that Ender is my least confident wolfread.

What I mean is that Ender is my #2 by default currently and I can try analyzing the Whole again after my #1 is flipped.


Like I said, the selection is a day action. The card may then be immediately used that night. Hence my claim of immediate eod feedback.

The upside to this is it can't be blocked or intercepted.

So in principle, Arctic would have been able to use it immediately after the flip? :shrug:

Depending on how kills shake out - I'm being moderate to conservative - maybe D7 is F4 or something.

By D7, there should be no chance of ladd, ender, maple, wisdom, jan, dya, knights... being alive.


It is what I thought. Just double checking.
In that case I could target you and vice versa.
If I don't get a card you get executed.

Not sure if the village supports this off, but we both have day actions now apparently.

Jesus Christ, that's almost crazy enough to work, unless you're teamed. :creep:

Thoughts, Dolby?


Some napkin math on KPs.

15 players: 11 town, 4 maf.

D3 -1
N3 -2
D4 -1
N4 - 1
D5 -1
N5 -2
D6 -1
N6 -1
D7 -1
N7 -1
D8: F3

[Sunbae]

I had a lot last night but I think waking up and catching up has removed it. Which is fine. Old me would have dug their heels in and forced themself to barrel through despite the fact that nobody really cares about anything I'm saying (and havent all game!) until people got the message. It's why I was rarely mischopped! New me just caught up and said "hm, alright then, yall do you and ill go to lunch and say glgl" which, tbh, feels absolutely divine.

to clarify: this is not woe is me this is being happy im in a place agai where mafia isnt consuming and obsessive. its hype

[Sunbae]

jan wouldnt you rb them?

[dyachei]

ender being maf would make my d1 seem a lot better in retrospect.

i can see it, too. Idk that maple is gonna be a hot tbh. maybe he is but i have severe doubts. ladd feels more likely to me

[ladd]

manti, would arctic be able to potentially kill themselves with what u gave them?

[Dolby]

Maple is saying that the card happens before night so it can't be roleblocked (unless there's a day roleblock but no way that exists). It could work but frankly, I don't want to do that because I do not necessarily think that Maple is lying about their role, I think that Maple is just a wolf. I should probably read back Arctic again from the lens of would he shoot Maple if he got a card (i.e. did he believe the card claim impacted Maple's wolfiness)

[Sunbae]

Maple is saying that the card happens before night so it can't be roleblocked (unless there's a day roleblock but no way that exists). It could work but frankly, I don't want to do that because I do not necessarily think that Maple is lying about their role, I think that Maple is just a wolf. I should probably read back Arctic again from the lens of would he shoot Maple if he got a card (i.e. did he believe the card claim impacted Maple's wolfiness)

oh i see, ty

[Sunbae]

oh duh manti said it right there

[Dolby]

reading this again i am perfectly happy to just fuck the claims and kill maple but i think it's pretty unlikely rask's role is real so i don't mind if we stick the course

this reads so much like he would have tried to shoot maple and probably would have not cared if he did receive a card

[Jan]

jan wouldnt you rb them?

I would roleblock them during the night, but their action is apparently daytime and gets delivered at Eod.

[Maple]

It is what I thought. Just double checking.
In that case I could target you and vice versa.
If I don't get a card you get executed.

Not sure if the village supports this off, but we both have day actions now apparently.

Yeah I figure that's the best line, now it's just a matter of talking the thread into it.

I'm just getting started on breakfast right now. I think it's reasonably likely that you, knights, dya, prooooooobably grrr, maybe sunbae, hard maybe insomnia as villagers but that last one is based of a pretty shaky foundation at this point. I think if there is an arsonist it's likely that the ff claim is correct regardless of alignment, but can arso usually douse/ignite on the same night? Like, maybe it's a day action and ignites at night idk. How do we know they don't just have guns? Not sure. Jan getting a n1 save is totally plausible iyam

Ender I'm not really sure on. Frankly, I'm not actually sure if this game is role madness or if the limited number of VTs are just playing along. The timing of their claim is >rand v but again idk about all that stuff.

That leaves Ben Mont gemma vanta dolby (plus whatever I'm uncertain about above)

I mean off raw vibes, gemma is decent. I forgot vanta was still alive honestly. Need to reread Ben and mont again. Rask flipping 3p is actually annoying af cause it means a bunch of thoughts i jad yesterday are just straight up invalid. I'm still on the murder dolby plan, but eh I'm probably forced to jump out of that tunnel if I don't wanna die today.

[Maple]

manti, would arctic be able to potentially kill themselves with what u gave them?

I highly doubt it. The card I gave is a symbol of craftsmen particularly pertaining to expediance and movement. Some mercurial type shit.

I also didn't activate my ability last night, and even if I did and Arctic targeted me 1) I'd die too 2) he'd have deserved it for targeting a claimed PGO. Frankly, that's insulting his intelligence.

[Maple]

If I get voted out today, just kill dolby tonight for this dumb line.

Or haul him off to prison and execute him, that'd be cool too.

ToS jailer is unstoppable and pierces immunity, does yours also Jan?

[ladd]

I highly doubt it. The card I gave is a symbol of craftsmen particularly pertaining to expediance and movement. Some mercurial type shit.

I also didn't activate my ability last night, and even if I did and Arctic targeted me 1) I'd die too 2) he'd have deserved it for targeting a claimed PGO. Frankly, that's insulting his intelligence.

alrighty i was wondering if he could have depseraod themselves


i wanna see ender claim tbh cause he is softing some inventor stuff and idk if both of your roles can coexist

monti seems like a villager but i'd absolutely hate losing to a wolf making an argument as dumb as his which makes me a bit recitent

[Montmorency]

Maple is saying that the card happens before night so it can't be roleblocked (unless there's a day roleblock but no way that exists). It could work but frankly, I don't want to do that because I do not necessarily think that Maple is lying about their role, I think that Maple is just a wolf. I should probably read back Arctic again from the lens of would he shoot Maple if he got a card (i.e. did he believe the card claim impacted Maple's wolfiness)

There are upsides to stealing a card from Mafia and having Jan both execute Maple and deploy the card. (Mafia might refuse to cooperate, well, whatever - execute. If Maple is town, assume intrinsic motivation to not withholding the card due to facing policy lim.)

My final message for Monday: Do a virtual vote, see how much you can run the tally up on Maple. Is there majority support? If so, I'll "hammer", metaphorically speaking.

[ladd]

vote:wisdom

I will be back tomorrow

[Dolby]

If I get voted out today, just kill dolby tonight for this dumb line.

Or haul him off to prison and execute him, that'd be cool too.

ToS jailer is unstoppable and pierces immunity, does yours also Jan?

Vote: Maple

Yeah I think I'm just not gonna move

I firmly believe that we will always be given a reason to keep giving Maple one more day, and the claim doesn't actually mean anything towards Manti's alignment. It's a role madness game, of course Manti has a role that does stuff.

I don't think that Manti is town, and I think all five names in her POE are villagers rn. I kinda think that Manti is likely to be a stronger wolf than Wisdom just on the basis that Wisdom's claim isn't the strongest if they are w/w I guess but I don't really put much stock into that portion of this read.

Manti put your money where your mouth is and vote me, not one of the other names on that list

[Montmorency]

It's not Role Madness btw, most players aren't PRs here. As far as we know.

[Wisdom]

Because I had to target a player reasonably likely to be a villager who had less odds of dying. I figured bop was always dying, I figured the wolves would kill into the PRs, so I went with Arctic.

Smh

If you're really town here you're super unlucky but I don't think that's the case

[grr]

Oki.

Vote: ladd

[theknightsofneeee]

honestly man idk how many times i've said it i'm getting boring of saying it

stop using the word lynch pls

i've been trying, my last like 4-5 posts i've been saying elim.

but i've been saying the other word for literally over a decade so its hard to switch on a dime.

you'll just have to bear with me, sorry :sweatdrop:

[nebjiamn]

Also Benneh, elaborate on threadspewed v for Vanta please?

day 1 to day 2 I feel like there was a lot of caution around their slot from various players and several people commented (probly including me at some point) about how they would die to village KP almost certainly this game and the general sentiment was they were ==rand

and on day 2 ppl just started... clearing her, or at least, townleaning her and the discussion about them getting killed just kinda died down and i got the impression no one that's a villager really wolf read her for her posts, it was more just a volume thing, and no one that's a wolf felt like they could really push her or take that line cause they knew it would look pretty weird if/when vanta flips v and was seen as a LHF / lazy kill

its just a vibe of a gamestate read but my read doesn't hinge on that, it just bolsters it a bit

[nebjiamn]

A few immediate thoughts:

- In the event Ladd is a wolf their approach with Syn at eod1 is to poke holes in Syn defenses. Notably when people are using things like Rask's god read of Syn as a reason not to vote Syn and replying that Rask has backed off some (to Jan) but also to be hedging on Syn himself by saying more villagery than the wolf game but not as villagery as the villa game. Which my initial feeling is that w!ladd would either take a stance on wolf syn to either defend or get credit OR just let others defend Syn via Rask but he does neither. He even then comes out and says even if Syn is a wolf it's not outing for Rask so like, he's also not tying together Rask/Syn in the "in Syn dies wolf then Rask is wolfy" way either? The town list of ladd/newcomb/stett/arctic/bop/grrr/jan/dya that he dropped is looking pretty fire atm if I listen to people about Grrr and believe the Jan/Dya claims (and I'll get to Dya shortly but I think that's a lock V). I really like the inquiry to Jan about why it has to be Rask or Syn while Jan is voting Rask and being adamant that Rask over Syn is the way to go in this situation.


there's some stuff I want to look back on that ladd mentioned re: his interactions d1 with maple being somewhat clearing/unaligned. if that's true that might be a good way to read into ladd more

but idrt the way you're talking about his approach to syn/rask/elsewhere does much for me? to quote you, titans of werewolf were pushing on sheep/knights that EOD (ladd and newcomb) and if that's v/v ladd could have just assumed him doing that + voting gemma would be enough to get through d1 unscathed?



- I gave a lot of credit for Insomnia's vote on Syn "without reading their posts" but one thing I'm concerned about now is that Insomnia mentioned multiple times that he had no read on Syn as people discussed - couldn't remember any posts, didn't read them, etc - and at no point just ... went and read them? And in hindsight I kind of hate the shade of Knights (who i think is a very likely villager) for caring more than Gemma? Like Gemma was posting this whole time and Insomnia never even mentioned Gemma outside of this. I have slight concerns about a Insom/Gemma/Maple team at the moment but that's whatever/i havent read everything again yet so thats just my eod1 hmmm vibe. But I do want to spend some time just going over my Insomnia read today after giving so many villa points for eod that I dont really hold on reread.

meta wise, he hates bussing in turbos and mashes and i'm pretty sure this also holds true in longform games. idt insom's vote is on syn in a place where it makes sense to consider syn dead-weight to the point a non-busser feels the need to softly bus/gain cred, and even if it was or we ignored that, i feel like his excuse wouldnt be so laissez faire about how he didn't read their posts or have an opinion. wolf!insom is more than capable and i think more likely to gather some kind of fake thoughts to push out a wolf hoping to grab cred like that.

ignoring meta, i just think his posting is like, good, and with some of the rambling and direction he's been taking the thread when writing his posts, they don't seem to be doing much for his team other than him being villa read here on d3 when we've hit 2 days in a row (albeit yesterday could be considered a 'win' for wolves, but w/e)

[Jan]

Vote: Maple

Yeah I think I'm just not gonna move

I firmly believe that we will always be given a reason to keep giving Maple one more day, and the claim doesn't actually mean anything towards Manti's alignment. It's a role madness game, of course Manti has a role that does stuff.

I don't think that Manti is town, and I think all five names in her POE are villagers rn. I kinda think that Manti is likely to be a stronger wolf than Wisdom just on the basis that Wisdom's claim isn't the strongest if they are w/w I guess but I don't really put much stock into that portion of this read.

Manti put your money where your mouth is and vote me, not one of the other names on that list

This line actually reeks of false bravado.


Yeah I figure that's the best line, now it's just a matter of talking the thread into it.

I'm just getting started on breakfast right now. I think it's reasonably likely that you, knights, dya, prooooooobably grrr, maybe sunbae, hard maybe insomnia as villagers but that last one is based of a pretty shaky foundation at this point. I think if there is an arsonist it's likely that the ff claim is correct regardless of alignment, but can arso usually douse/ignite on the same night? Like, maybe it's a day action and ignites at night idk. How do we know they don't just have guns? Not sure. Jan getting a n1 save is totally plausible iyam

Ender I'm not really sure on. Frankly, I'm not actually sure if this game is role madness or if the limited number of VTs are just playing along. The timing of their claim is >rand v but again idk about all that stuff.

That leaves Ben Mont gemma vanta dolby (plus whatever I'm uncertain about above)

I mean off raw vibes, gemma is decent. I forgot vanta was still alive honestly. Need to reread Ben and mont again. Rask flipping 3p is actually annoying af cause it means a bunch of thoughts i jad yesterday are just straight up invalid. I'm still on the murder dolby plan, but eh I'm probably forced to jump out of that tunnel if I don't wanna die today.
Dolby basically never gets killed today in this game state and maple voting most people on that list is not making a huge difference today.
the leftovers basically have no heat right now and the one person he forgot is ladd who is not excluded before and not on the leftover list.

I cannot see anybody saying that and actually meaning it. *shrug*

[Jan]

day 1 to day 2 I feel like there was a lot of caution around their slot from various players and several people commented (probly including me at some point) about how they would die to village KP almost certainly this game and the general sentiment was they were ==rand

and on day 2 ppl just started... clearing her, or at least, townleaning her and the discussion about them getting killed just kinda died down and i got the impression no one that's a villager really wolf read her for her posts, it was more just a volume thing, and no one that's a wolf felt like they could really push her or take that line cause they knew it would look pretty weird if/when vanta flips v and was seen as a LHF / lazy kill

its just a vibe of a gamestate read but my read doesn't hinge on that, it just bolsters it a bit

I don't think wolves cared to push vanta until this point because they have enough targets and they can kill the people villa reading her first and consider turning that read later on.
It is not hard for me to map out today and wolves who actually know alignments likely have a good idea about tomorrow as well and know when/if they need to slowly drag her into the poe.

[nebjiamn]

i'm considering Syn as a CW here. Went and skimmed their iso and there's some good vibes but at this point in the game I see a pretty eyebrow raising lack of anything I'd call substance.

The main points I'm getting are:

- lots of people are passing the vibe check
- doesn't like walls, skimming
- some shade at Rask for having an early read on them
- Gemma is posting well
- votes sheep, no reason given
- has a reads list, no real reasons
- lack of consensus D1 is to be expected

Yeah idk I'm definitely not seeing anything I'd call an interest in solving the game. I'd be interested in someone with meta on Syn to kind of give me a general idea of them as a player. I'm down with a certain amount of carefree shitposty flighty energy but I'm not seeing anything where there's even a little spark of a thread to follow and then it's followed. Just a ton of fluff.

man this guys' so fuckin good fr

[nebjiamn]

@Newcomb (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=102429) syn was a wolf in their last game here and was def worse but i also think they are worse here than their vila games...so inconclusive. If it helps you give a baseline they are generally a snarky villager with fairly confident reads who makes a lot 1 liners

eh i feel like this post kinda goes against my original thoughts and somewhat validates what sunbae was thinking re: ladd. like, it reads like a defense sorta but not really. this doesn't feel like a response with TMI that syn is wolf and its somewhat unprompted from ladd (newcomb asked for it but ladd coulda ignored or gave a more vague/cloudy answer)

gona ponder on it a bit

[Maple]

let's just keep calling venti clear today and hope the wolves kill them in the night

[nebjiamn]

Sunbae i reread eod focusing on gemma a bit more beyond the iso and ... ya, sorry, not much changed

i wont be floored if they're a wolf but i still see little things that make me lean v? like i hear what you are saying but its not clicking for me

[nebjiamn]

let's just keep calling venti clear today and hope the wolves kill them in the night

i dont get the reference honestly but i can tell its funny

[Maple]

If ladd's a wolf, I'm fighting for my life to avoid the pocket. I'm still thinking him over. I did, indeed, forget to list him in that prior post, and he would in fact have been in the bottom group (hence the "and anyone im forgetting")

idk i *know* im being too soft this game on my village reads cause I genuinly just don't have enough wolf reads

with a 3p flip that puts us into 21p so that's just 4 wolves + SK or 5 wolves if the 3p was benign

so like 3 wolves outta all these players?

Let's just assume I'm right about dolby. That my clears on jan, dya, knights are correct. I'm just not touching being wrong on knights like right now. I have grr who is ~probably village based on like big vibes stuff that's been discussed a lot, i believe

insomnia i can pretty easily be wrong on. Same with sunbae, but I don't think I am.

idk ben feels like he just *shouldnt* be a wolf (which makes rask flipping 3p so gd annoying, tbh, im gonna need to reread the ENTIRE yesterday section there with that context in mind)

i just don't *get* wisdom this game. I dunno, it's a massive void in the middle of the game for me cause like okay let's say they're ff, what are they doing? If they're wolf, what are they doing? Idk I need to re-iso the slot again, I guess.

[Maple]

and yes, i recognize that i'm posting exactly like how i post as a wolf, we're all going to have to deal with it together

presumably by putting me into the ground, but hey we all saw that coming

[insomnia]

Dolby

it seems like you're pretty familiar with ender's meta. do you actually think he could fake all of the things he's done this game as a wolf? it was my impression that whenever he was wolf in my games, it was simply a PoE process thing where i'd open his iso and come out with a true null or i'd have to make a ton of mental gymnastics to interpret micro moments as villagery, not even at a macro level

i would kinda like more insight there cuz idk if im just tripping here for thinking he's just a villa

benneh can prob answer too cuz he's played with him iirc


sunbae, i've only started re-reading D1 but isoing is hell on this site. idt i've done a single iso, most of my reads are just reading the whole thread and im lazy. i guess us not vibing in real time and you having a waller-y type of posting style is making me not appreciate the finer details, but then again i had no issue villa reading bop so i guess i just haven't seen something that would move you out of PoE for me. i'll likely get to reading you / benneh once we flip in maple / wisdom or some other people, ergo my opinion should only matter once we have some chance to kill / save you

[insomnia]

re-reading up to page 10 just makes me feel stronger about jan just on a gameplay level, but i was already thinking he was a villager off the claim and the reasons i've mentioned (which some people said were wifom)

and i guess i don't like wisdom's reads from early, but the reason i didn't wanna re-read is cuz wisdom is already a pretty complex villa thinker in that it's really hard to follow their train of thought and also their train of thought isn't conventionally villagery. which is why i didn't wanna even read their posts, lol

[insomnia]

I won't be around at all after these next few posts and vote. If you think I'm the best vote uh, good luck? Think that's hard to be the case on multiple fronts but I cannot stop you!

Still feel pretty ok with where I've been at. Think I've got a prettttty good swath of the game with reads. Doubt they are all accurate but I'm comfy with the reads and how I got there.

Keep circling back to Rask as my best wolf. Something about calling my reads too consensus while they are getting poo poo'd elsewhere for being too out there just makes me think it was shading and finding a reason to do so that sounds reasonable but hadn't actually been reading my posts or thinking about my reads. I don't think anyone else would call the reads consensus!

Still don't find Jan villagery. Don't see why others do and the only thing I get told when asked is "vibes" which, fair it's day 1, but I counter with "I get vibes that say opposite".

someone remind me if there exists a wolf tell of being a magnet to 3Ps / sniffing them out

[Dolby]

A more detailed response will have to come hours from now bc I am kind of considering if I was wrong on Ender w right now tbh and I have liked his day three so far. And I'm also at work and cannot go fully into a level of detail deserving of the question for a long time. With that said, I felt when reading through his D1 that I didn't like his direction at all or how he started generating reads, I still feel like at SOD1 he just took one thing and used to generate his world view which I don't really associate with town Ender at all.

I'm worried that I've been getting a false positive from D2 bc he seemed to be floundering, but it could have been bc he just didn't have enough time to fully eval from the thread. I actually really dislike how he voted Rask and just never moved. Yes he was exploring other places as well throughout the day but that was unfortunately never elaborated on in a manner that was satisfactory to me (I still like, even in the one bigger post he has on them, feel his cases on sunbae/Bennen), but he dismissed the slot in entirity when I thought that there were moments from Rask that looked uninformed and that he had a town thought process (which we now know was real), and I think that Ender would be able to find Rask as not mafia in that situation. Heck, he called him in his maf play, which I disagree with (rask did have sus posts but I feel that he had posts where he actually had a visible solving process). In fact I think the only really towny thing that he has on D2 (which I am giving him a good bit of cred for) is him finding Monty as town on D2 and having a good rationale for it.

I like a lot of what he's put out today, live reacting with me and Wisdom. I think the only thing I dislike from him today funnily enough is him dismissing Monty as a neut (rather than neut or town) to hard in a post. I really need him to come back with something on ladd, or something that convinces me on benneh and sunbae bc tbh I just view his susses on benneh and sunbae as kinda weak and like, I look at what he says about them and I'm like "yeah they can do that and still are town"

[insomnia]

alright, stopped at around the time where mont came back and i want to read his EoD tomorrow cuz i heard it was villagery

honestly im just hoping we're in an ideal world where the team is sunbae / maple / wisdom / +1

and i want it to be ladd but something (not a soft) just stops me from making the call even though objectively i think it's correct

Sunbae arctic pointed this out but idt i saw you answering it


this is not rational nor charitable but sunbae's "we should look at people who nobody is talking about" thing floating stett in the same group as wisdom/syn kinda pings me. like those are different flavors of not being discussed - in stett's case it's because they are universally townread and independently obvious town and in the cases of the other two it's because they haven't posted enough or nobody really knows. and i think a villa might be a bit more discerning in the targets of "who is nobody talking about" than dropping these three names and saying they all had "vague town vibes" when that isn't really the case. they did the same thing with grr too. idk. it might not even be wolfy because there's the argument that a wolf might be more in tune with the consensus and what they can push. but still feels like a kinda strange angle for a villager to go for

[Sunbae]

Dolby

it seems like you're pretty familiar with ender's meta. do you actually think he could fake all of the things he's done this game as a wolf? it was my impression that whenever he was wolf in my games, it was simply a PoE process thing where i'd open his iso and come out with a true null or i'd have to make a ton of mental gymnastics to interpret micro moments as villagery, not even at a macro level

i would kinda like more insight there cuz idk if im just tripping here for thinking he's just a villa

benneh can prob answer too cuz he's played with him iirc


sunbae, i've only started re-reading D1 but isoing is hell on this site. idt i've done a single iso, most of my reads are just reading the whole thread and im lazy. i guess us not vibing in real time and you having a waller-y type of posting style is making me not appreciate the finer details, but then again i had no issue villa reading bop so i guess i just haven't seen something that would move you out of PoE for me. i'll likely get to reading you / benneh once we flip in maple / wisdom or some other people, ergo my opinion should only matter once we have some chance to kill / save you

This is a quick drive by (i know i have other people to respond to who answered questions for me from last night I just haven't gotten the chance to fully sit down and won't til overnight).

I understand this and maybe it's the lack of in-thread time together (same with me/ender!) but here's my issue with your idea of backburning it til after maple/wisdom (despite understanding isoing is really hard here and ive done way less than normal myself and instead read thread as whole sections):

One of my worlds I'm throwing around in my head is specifically you/gemma/benneh because I can piece together how everything went down with that team. In this world, eod1 Ladd is voting Gemma, you shade Ladd. You defend Gemma by pushing Knights for wanting to be alive more. Syn and Benneh aren't around and two of the main wagons are Gemma/Syn. You mention that you haven't read Syn but vote there and Gemma votes there once Knights basically forces her off. You tie me/benneh together some but make sure to shade me more than Benneh. When that receives brushback from Ladd and someone else about me being more villagery than benneh, you reiterate that Benneh at least had something specifically villagery with the thing with getting focused on a small thing from (forgetting exactly who atm, its a drive by sorry). And this kind of carries through day 2 where Bop mentions Gemma fell off the "tonal cliff" or something (said about knights too but idk, birthday seems a good reason) and then the game gets bogged down in claims/counters. And obviously a few people have been telling me to keep an eye on Benneh (dya did at least, i think newcomb did too). So even though I still want to villa read benneh I'm trying to keep thigns in mind.

Now I'm not saying this is MY TEAM OMG FOLLOW ME EVERYONE I'm just saying it's one I've been exploring and thinking about and I think I can see how this team is all tied together, what was going on, why, and how it all played out if so.

So my concern of like "well lets just deal with maple/wisdom and then worry about it" is like, in the cases I'm right here at that point it'd be too late for me you know? And I get it, it's a little weird for me to start being suspicious of you when you have a wolf vote and I don't! And I'm not even saying it's my best wolf read! It's just if I feel my villa reads of Dya/Knights/Grr/Jan are right and my reread read of Ladd villa is right, then I need to see where I think the wolves are.

And like, ok so I know Bop was really locked in Wisom and I think we're all like staring at Maple and I understand that those two are almost certainly getting resolved soon, but if they are wolves then I think we're in the drivers seat and fine and me exploring other options wont matter much while if they are villagers then this part is really important you know?

Now can I be wrong on Ladd? Certainly! Another world I'm exploring is specifically Ladd/Maple/X (i mentioned my gut ping about Ladds comment about Maple day 1). In this world wolves were likely cruising eod1 and then got blindsided by a late Syn wagon. I'd imagine you, gemma, and knights are lock town in this world which, hype.

I also know either Bop or Arctic or Stett mentioned keeping an eye on the potential that we just wagoned a ton of wolves day 1 and they bussed (this included Knights so even if I personally have Knights as a very likely villager who id be floored if wolf, I'm still viewing that as well just to be thorough).

Now, I definitely have a blind spot with Dolby/Vanta but I've gotten the vibe Dolby's posts today are pretty villagery? I think someone disagreed in my catchup but I'll need to check that later. So exploring there is good too to shore up that read.

So yeah that's just the general where my heads at

[Sunbae]

Theres not really much to answer about that. Grabbed three people I had no personal thoughts on and asked people for opinions. Anything more than that is the same thing as Stetts and Enders "idk, i think youre performative" to which all I can reply is "ok" but that sounds dismissive so I say nothing instead

[insomnia]

i've read all of your post, but your theory doesn't apply because i was voting gemma and we had a pretty rough fight in thread. i doubt i would be that tilted about it although i can put on that act, not sure if gemma would be that type of wolf though

but i was voting gemma for a lot of the time and didn't even swap to knights. it'd be pretty silly of me cuz fypov all i've done d1 was to bus my teammates without trying to wagon villas in between and not only do i not think normal wolves do that, for me specifically it'd have to mean swapping my entire playstyle. i disagree with benneh because i would probably do a half-assed bus specifically for that point, but i still wouldn't shade 2/4 of my teammates all of d1

[Sunbae]

i've read all of your post, but your theory doesn't apply because i was voting gemma and we had a pretty rough fight in thread. i doubt i would be that tilted about it although i can put on that act, not sure if gemma would be that type of wolf though

but i was voting gemma for a lot of the time and didn't even swap to knights. it'd be pretty silly of me cuz fypov all i've done d1 was to bus my teammates without trying to wagon villas in between and not only do i not think normal wolves do that, for me specifically it'd have to mean swapping my entire playstyle. i disagree with benneh because i would probably do a half-assed bus specifically for that point, but i still wouldn't shade 2/4 of my teammates all of d1

Ok, I will go back later and reread the earlier part of day 1 again. That would be a really exciting thing for me to lock in

Does me explaining all this help you get into my head and see things from my pov at least? I feel like I'm trying very hard to be transparent and helpful so others can get a better read on me on this game day.

[insomnia]

Theres not really much to answer about that. Grabbed three people I had no personal thoughts on and asked people for opinions. Anything more than that is the same thing as Stetts and Enders "idk, i think youre performative" to which all I can reply is "ok" but that sounds dismissive so I say nothing instead

you didn't have thoughts on stett? the top poster?

your other 2 guesses are understandable, which is why fitting stett there doesn't help

i guess i don't like the fact that, fmpov, the wolves weren't there for EoD and you dip right before you ask about syn / wisdom in what could be easily interpreted as a distancing attempt and then you aren't there when the syn suspicion goes down. coincidences, can be hell, huh

did you just think stett's posts could be posted by any alignment, or?

[Sunbae]

you didn't have thoughts on stett? the top poster?

your other 2 guesses are understandable, which is why fitting stett there doesn't help

i guess i don't like the fact that, fmpov, the wolves weren't there for EoD and you dip right before you ask about syn / wisdom in what could be easily interpreted as a distancing attempt and then you aren't there when the syn suspicion goes down. coincidences, can be hell, huh

did you just think stett's posts could be posted by any alignment, or?

yes, i have zero experience with stett that im aware of and had no opinion on stetts alignment there
then people told me obvious villager, at one point i asked for confirmation that people were sure sure, they gave it, and i locked it in

[insomnia]

Ok, I will go back later and reread the earlier part of day 1 again. That would be a really exciting thing for me to lock in

Does me explaining all this help you get into my head and see things from my pov at least? I feel like I'm trying very hard to be transparent and helpful so others can get a better read on me on this game day.

i mean i get it, but it doesn't help cuz i feel like you haven't read if your guess was that team :laugh4:

your alternate world is actually the one i was exploring d2 a big part of the time and i thought ladd was put in a really rough spot of not knowing whether to bus or defend so he was just like "meh i dont think he is villa but i dont hard push him either". off the top of my head that EoD just doesn't read like one where wolves did anything

[Sunbae]

i mean i get it, but it doesn't help cuz i feel like you haven't read if your guess was that team :laugh4:

your alternate world is actually the one i was exploring d2 a big part of the time and i thought ladd was put in a really rough spot of not knowing whether to bus or defend so he was just like "meh i dont think he is villa but i dont hard push him either". off the top of my head that EoD just doesn't read like one where wolves did anything

What if you remember I mostly just reread eods and major events and recall very little from early d1 that doesnt specifically involve me!!!!

Noted on second paragraph. Do you think my longer post on Ladd is just flawed then? It's possible of course!

[Sunbae]

Sunbae i reread eod focusing on gemma a bit more beyond the iso and ... ya, sorry, not much changed

i wont be floored if they're a wolf but i still see little things that make me lean v? like i hear what you are saying but its not clicking for me

Thank you! Noted (just wanted to acknowledge etc)

[grr]

Zzz....

[Sunbae]

Benneh prob v, ladd I keep flipflopping on but right now i think w, and vanta is likely newer villager here and having a hard time parsing what looks to be role madness

ty dya

[grr]

insomnia want some help/input? ( xD )

[insomnia]

What if you remember I mostly just reread eods and major events and recall very little from early d1 that doesnt specifically involve me!!!!

Noted on second paragraph. Do you think my longer post on Ladd is just flawed then? It's possible of course!

it's so rough with ladd

here's tha thang. i've done numerous posts on why i think he's a wolf, which, objectively, i just feel are correct. im not sure someone can disagree or fight against it, not even ladd himself. the facts are that he hasn't had a solid push yet past d1, and the ones on d1 were all wrong. the only unflipped we don't know about is gemma

however, he kinda makes up for that by just having really solid villa reads at the right time. i feel like, if anything, this should be the reason he's being villa read, not anything else.

but there's simply something lacking in his play and i think it's that he'd already have a clear direction that we can all see through his pushing. the fact he keeps hammering down on the villa reads instead of pushing for wolves in this spot is also a big grievance of mine, although that maybe is a bit unfair

he's just an amazing player so it's hard to really put it into words beyond just a feeling he's not having the village's interest at heart. he feels really calculated and cunning in his posting, like he's avoiding stepping on eggshells.

now my tinfoil is that, in a ladd wolf world, he's actually a strong PR / KP for them. this would explain his positioning on syn, basically never attempting to defend a teammate that's under heat but he also doesn't want to hard push him because then he'd need an answer for why he's alive. that's why it bugs me why he's only stating village reads and doing no pushing. also, it's really easy and safe to distance from Syn because idt he's ever had a game where he doesn't die early as wolf (no offense). he did all the right things, pocketing newcomb and poking at villas on d1, but this is why i hate he isn't just running a train across his wolf reads.

i guess this is my problem, his posts just don't seem that villagery to me, but positioning wise he just looks good. and i guess it's also a game state type of read where i'd expect him to have some reads and push them rn that he simply isn't concerned with

i feel like he tried to throw small punches at villas all game, pocket certain players and once he got his footing in, he just stuck to villa reading anti-consensus players for cred, because pushing people would be harder or he'd even be forced to bus if we're doing good, maybe. i just really need to see him push people and why

[insomnia]

insomnia want some help/input? ( xD )

idk, if you have strong thoughts on my PoE

otherwise not sure what to ask. im pretty set on the resolve i have now, i just don't know the order

im debating just going full lazy mode until i see maple and wisdom flip, not sure what else there needs to be done

[Dolby]

I kinda want to flip ladd now before Wisdom, though I may feel differently if Ladd comes in with a solid bite someone

But like, Maple/Ladd/Wisdom just makes sense to me? And I do feel that Ender can fit in with that group

[grr]

Yeah I have something insomnia.

let me show u the entire Wisdom progression on ladd here:


I really should stop playing on phone why am I like this.

Apparently all but Monte has posted but it feels like I missed half the playerlist.

The way Ender solves through relaxing and vibing is something that I associate with his town game.

On the other side, Cobalt seems a bit stiff and forced. For some reason his post on this page, about him liking people talking about him, wasn't in his ISO (I'm going insane). It felt real though.

Rask... for some reason I expected him to be more hype than he's shown so far, but I know that he really didn't want to rand wolf this game and I'd think he'd put more effort into seeming solvy than he's done so he's probably town anyway.

I'm a bit worried about Syn's approach to the game but I think his "threadstate is pure" post shows a towny mindset. Raskolnikov I think you know why I'm worried, can you explain why you instantly locked him town?

Newcomb/Ladd is unlikely w/w and I feel like I agree with everything they say even when I don't. So, hopefully both are town and shouldn't be too hard to find them if they're alive wolves in later game.

Jan is still town. Retracting town leans on Sheep and Stett for the time being.

Unvote


TIME FOR SOME HIPFIRE TRASH READS

I usually wait with sharing reads until I vibe hard enough or have found anything AI but let's do an experiment and just throw out the first thing that comes to mind on every player. I expect this to be terrible accuracy but hey maybe something is worth pursuing.

EnderWiggin -> Yeah I think he's probably town, good vibes in thread, doesn't remind me of his wolf games and I'm quite sure I've seen a few of them.

ColonelLubriderm -> Stop not being GH, I literally can't find you until you stop not being GH because every time you post I feel like I have to focus on reminding myself that you're not GH. I noted you as non w/w with someone but I'm not gonna check who. (I like you outside of that, Bop, just stop not being GH please)

Newcomb -> Feels like he's everyone's comfort blanket this game. He's my comfort blanket at least. Probably town.

didistetter -> Opening bugged me, good vibes in rest of post, but far from the super-stett I know and love. Null.

Jan -> Obv town, we should mason

Gemma -> Hi you were in my last game here so I'm sorry I haven't paid any attention to you

nebjiamn -> Mjeh no you tunneled me last game for having you in my PoE until I you got me yeeted (Despite me being obv!town), it feels like you haven't done much AI yet tho, but you haven't really been in my solve zone yet. I got pinged by your town read on me but meh.

theknightsofneeee -> People talk about you, you talk back, you've sadly not been in my focus yet.

ladd -> Vibes like town ladd? Not sure how to describe it. His town read on me felt more real than Benneh's.

dyachei -> You had a post that I liked earlier but I can't recall what it was about. Feels a bit UTR right now.

sheepsaysmeep -> Shrug

Sunbae -> Cute traitor

C0balt -> Is either wolf or misyeet bait, don't really want to go there today.

grr -> Also a bit UTR but I'm not sure if that's just because my solve zone hasn't handled everyone yet.

Raskolnikov -> Probably town and drunk

Maple -> Does Maple ever post anything AI d1? I'm not sure I've seen it.

insomnia -> Probably the one I've played with the most here and I still can't read you.

Arctic -> Someone said you sounded like a robot. I opened your ISO, noped, and then did other stuff.

Syn -> I don't like that I sus you when you seem happy. But my meta burned me last game so I'll just trust Rask's clear on you for the moment. Maybe one day I'll see what he sees.

Vanta Black -> Can't recall what you posted, sorry about that!

Just a spoiler to out those who only read their own name and then jumped to the spoiler




i forgot syn, they are in the ender/sheep tier


i'll bbl




as an aside imo its a super interesting game and am personally very curious to find out what was going on d1 with flips in mind. hope it's nothing too boring but idts

Towny post and overall nice reads. I didn't really feel that Bop's push on me was in good faith so I'd place him close to the bottom, but the rest is reasonable.




I don't think I'll be able to play more tonight so just some last thoughts.

Jan is bleeding town and it's about far more than his opening, which in itself is enough to warrant the Wisdom D1 town lock tbh.

Other than that I don't have anyone I really want to bank the game on being town, but Newcomb, Ladd, Ender, Rask and grr are all up there. Yeeting Sunbae and Stett is probably a bad idea too.

Gemma is good enough to end my vote on but it sure sucks to miss the most fun/important part of the game.

Kinda surprised that there haven't really been any real spice so far (except grr pushing newcomb) but the game is fun and you're all awesome so I don't mind :3

With that I wish y'all a good night! <3 Stay hyped and hydrated!






i have seen it


how would you expect syn/rask w/w to play out?
Syn would probably bus Rask lol
And Rask would probably avoid Syn until there's some thread temp on him

Maybe. Just my 2c






didnt you villa read vanta yesterday?

you are allowed to change your mind obviously, but i feel they have done something villagery for you



thoughts on eod if u read it? general poe still the same or?They had some towny vibe in their opening posts but it was mostly a gut reaction from my part, not based on any reasoning. I think they're quite a bit of macro town vibes but I can't see anything towny when I squint.

It's a bit of a coward vote, because obviously I'm missing a few wolves, but it's the safest vote. My read of both Vanta and Gemma reminds me of how I felt about Neowise in my recent Champs game (wolf), and also like Vanta/Gemma did in our last game. In that game Vanta was town though (Gemma was still a w) but I think it's a good idea to give them some pressure.


Na I haven't really gotten invested enough to have many hard stances yet, but everytime I see you post a read I disagree with it (maybe not true, but at least with Syn/Bop).

What do you feel about a Vanta wagon today?

And what's your thoughts on Ladd/Ender?




Vanta is rand aorn. I do think they will produce reads if given time and like I thunk there are more productive things to do tbh.

Ladd v, ender null (i have posted a bit about Ladd if u wanna dig, Ender is a slot I will ISO today or try to interact if given the chance)

Is there a way to see full posts when ISOing people? Because Ctrl+F Ladd on your ISO gave me nothing except "Sucks to be Ladd" ^^'



Tbh Jan, I think Ladd is a villager here for this. Id be dead I guess otherwise.

To be complete too about Syn, me quoting his "sleep, not sheep" post is me expressing a little ping. Though y, I was still expecting a green flip. Hope it helps solving our slots

If this is what you mean I don't really get it.



In the world I live in (syn woof, me villa) there is no need for Ladd to be so adamant pushing a villa read on me when 1 I am afk most of the day 2 thread momentum at eod makes me a prime yeet target. W!ladd can just look elsewhere and let the village kill me.
Gemma: yes


A
Depends on who else would be wolfing but sure, I see what you mean.




Ah that's how I phrased it, makes sense!

Yeah right now I'd say...

Top town
Colonel
Jan
Rask

Leaning town
Ender
Ladd

Probably also town
Arctic
Dya
Insomnia
Stett

Null
Benneh
Knights
Maple
Monte (I still can't recall 1 post from him and always forgets he exists)
Sunbae

Wolf lean
Dolby
Gemma
Vanta



I honestly dont really get why u feel so strongly about it

If all i read was eod, jan would look bad iyam

He defended syn and is clearly not spewed wolf so id say it worked


I just read eod again and what i find strange is how much jan suddenly cares once syn becomes a wagon, like he was pretty chill until the syn wagon and then he goes "ham"



Wisdom why dolby so low? Why gemma?


Dolby is mostly a PoE slot right now.

Gemma isn't doing much with her time in thread and it doesn't seem like she have more thoughts than she's sharing if you know what I mean with that.

But also a bit of vanity because I wanna see if I hit a wolf d1 and that'd probably clear me




Btw benneh, my main push d2 was maple. I was voting them all day until they claimed confirmable role, i thinknits really easy to disalign them and me (even from d1 posts)


For the rest i dont agree with clearing wisdom from rask flip cause i dont think visor would put a firefighter just to ckunter a poor neutral. Like u are really putting a neutral arso itg which is super hard to play and also giving thr village a counter? Iyam no


I think rask was prolly like an sk who was telling the truth abiut their shots but got unlucky


I initially thought two of Stett/Bop/Arson were w!Arson kills (would imply they could ignite and douse the same night) but I'm probably just here to screw things up due to flipless.

I'm useless now so might as well claim the rest. I targeted Stett n1 and Bop n2 so if those two got arsoned despite that some major fuckery is going on. Rask being SK and no arsonist existing makes sense.


I'm starting to suspect ladd is a wolf who's pocketing/whiteknighting me tbh, but it's hard to explain why

But when I think that there's 3-4 wolves in 14 players (right?) and that he's alive it's easy to think he's a wolf.

Like, the easiest world is it's like Gemma/Vanta/Dolby/Monte but it's never that easy. Ladd's easy to tinfoil, and then we have Knights and Benneh who I've got no clue on, and Ender who I can't remember a single d2 post from but I read he claimed pr.

Dya's town. Grr's probably town. I still want to think Jan is my D1 Town Clear and won't re-evaluate unless alive end game, if he's town pr he'll just die eventually anyway. And Maple who I don't know what his deal is.

My goal for today is finding 8 villagers, I have 3 right now +2 potential pr's. I'm soon done with work so can put some more work in when I get home.
(this one is my favorite so i made it bigger)


I didn't. You misunderstood me (I wasn't very clear). He and Ender should have been in between the other two piles as a "possibly pr" pile. I just didn't think about him (mainly due to not knowing if he had already done his self resolving or not) until the end and editing posts on phone is hell.

Also, I didn't mean that all 4 in Gemma/you/Vanta/Monte are wolves, just that it would make the game easier if you were (and I didn't have any tr's there but I think your recent posts are towny). Wolf!Ladd and Wolf!Manti are both hard to yeet.


Gemma has pretty much the same reads as I do.

If she's w/w with both Maple and Ladd I don't think her only focus today would be ladd/maple/wisdom.

So if Ladd/Maple are w/w I don't think Gemma is wolfing but Gemmas play is quite narrow/static from what I've seen so she probably still a wolf.

Implying Maple/Ladd not being w/w.

Here's the thing. I think Wisdom is a wolf who decided to not bus this game (a bird whispered to me once she generally decides pregame if she wants to bus or not and then sticks with it. i have seen this once myself). She is pretty stuck with their solving because of that, she needs to protect her wolfpals which is why her reads have pretty strange focus either on slots that gonna resolve soon anyway like Rask or Maple, or on slots that are pretty much dead-ends to sus into, stetter and me. recently she is kinda distancing from ladd but also still somewhat reluctant on it because she is the one who wants to end up being bussed, not vice versa.

thots? insomnia

[grr]

idk, if you have strong thoughts on my PoE

otherwise not sure what to ask. im pretty set on the resolve i have now, i just don't know the order

im debating just going full lazy mode until i see maple and wisdom flip, not sure what else there needs to be done

I hope you are a bit wary of the fact that u will get nightkilled next and i will become randomly MLable and i also tend to get lost when i lose my towncore. (a lot have already died and the people remaining start nibbling at my toes.). lmao. (i'll try my best tho no worries)

also, no idea what maple is cooking tbh. he also claims to be potentially pocketed by ladd and is confused by wisdom which is funny af if they are both wolves.

[Dolby]

fwiw on the matter IH is that she can be teammed with ladd still and that I still sus her overall worldview yesterday which had Jan/rask at the top and me/gemma/vanta at the bottom. I don't really like the directions they have chosen to go a lot of the game until today

While I suppose I should put in more effort into clearing Gemma, I think that Jan/Rask both at the top of their reads is a discongrous worldview. I like their d3 better, and they are voting Maple now, but Maple is kind of a forced vote and that's not saying much, but uh, maybe I am not reading that last post clearly but that really looks like they are using ladd/maple not w/w to justify shading Gemma, and it kind of does give them space to get back off of Maple and on to Gemma later, but I can't believe that Wisdom thinks wagons today aren't going to be Wisdom/Maple anyway?

If the ladd pocket post had come at any point on day two I would like it a lot, but it doesn't. It's coming on d3 when options are narrowing and ladd is in the crossfires pretty solidily now. And also like, when has ladd pocketed Wisdom? Maybe I've missed something but they've interacted noramlly but infrequently as far as I can recall. Would have to read back for that to evaluate as well

[Dolby]

I hope you are a bit wary of the fact that u will get nightkilled next and i will become randomly MLable and i also tend to get lost when i lose my towncore. (a lot have already died and the people remaining start nibbling at my toes.). lmao. (i'll try my best tho no worries)

also, no idea what maple is cooking tbh. he also claims to be potentially pocketed by ladd and is confused by wisdom which is funny af if they are both wolves.

ladd/maple/wisdom is the world that I'm currently living in

[grr]

also from what i have seen people are COMPLETELY dropping everyones legacies immediately so you'll also be forgotten the minute ur dead. xD I cant recall anyone ever referring to a legacy (it probably happened once or twice I struggle to be aware of everything).

(which is also kinda a subtle hint to me that dead villa legacies are probs decent).

[grr]

fwiw on the matter IH is that she can be teammed with ladd still and that I still sus her overall worldview yesterday which had Jan/rask at the top and me/gemma/vanta at the bottom. I don't really like the directions they have chosen to go a lot of the game until today

While I suppose I should put in more effort into clearing Gemma, I think that Jan/Rask both at the top of their reads is a discongrous worldview. I like their d3 better, and they are voting Maple now, but Maple is kind of a forced vote and that's not saying much, but uh, maybe I am not reading that last post clearly but that really looks like they are using ladd/maple not w/w to justify shading Gemma, and it kind of does give them space to get back off of Maple and on to Gemma later, but I can't believe that Wisdom thinks wagons today aren't going to be Wisdom/Maple anyway?

If the ladd pocket post had come at any point on day two I would like it a lot, but it doesn't. It's coming on d3 when options are narrowing and ladd is in the crossfires pretty solidily now. And also like, when has ladd pocketed Wisdom? Maybe I've missed something but they've interacted noramlly but infrequently as far as I can recall. Would have to read back for that to evaluate as well

don't think he did really (at least not recently, I think d1 there was a bit of good attitude from ladd's side at least) but its just the kinda thing wolves say about their wolfbuddy when they decided to change course.

gonna have to leave I need to focus a bit on cooking irl. honestly I have not thought much about the detailed shade they would be doing wrt gemma ngl. I am just seeing a general vibe there wrt ladd.

[Sunbae]

also from what i have seen people are COMPLETELY dropping everyones legacies immediately so you'll also be forgotten the minute ur dead. xD I cant recall anyone ever referring to a legacy (it probably happened once or twice I struggle to be aware of everything).

(which is also kinda a subtle hint to me that dead villa legacies are probs decent).

i have been bringing up bop/stett/newcomb/arctic!

[EnderWiggin]

(I have not caught up and will not be catching up rn. Just about to drive to work.)
Sunbae

Will you be around about 4 or 5 hours from now?

Was thinking last night in bed about liking your follow on to your 'campaign promises' and woke up feeling like realtiming with you might be best way to get my brain on about you instead of waving flags like an F1 lap announcer.

Pls ping with response. Ty <3

[insomnia]

yeah ih, i've read wisdom's posts where before, i'll be honest, i straight up ignored them

Not because i don't like their posts but only because I knew that if I did read them, i'd always come to the conclusion they're a wolf. Mostly because i was skimming all the time on forums and just always thought to myself "how are you supposed to villa read them?" but i really really hate some of the posts that i did end up reading

I guess your point adds up to my tinfoil of ladd being the KP. but in a ladd / maple / wisdom world they're all simply doomed

[insomnia]

I think the most odd part is that their turnaround on ladd seems really abrupt

And what do you mean you don't have a reason to think they're pocketing you, if I make that call i have at least one reason why i think they could be a wolf, and based off that i'd deduce they were pocketing me

But if the meta you have is legit then i could see it. Their susses are 0/3 fmpov, it was gemma / vanta and who else? Just doesn't seem like the place to be in right now, but im not some werewolf guru and i could be wrong /shrug

Gemma's iso is really not impressive, but EoD1 is a pretty good look for them as it is

[insomnia]

as it stands

Jan / dya probably legit villas imo and are the roles they claim. if arctic is somehow KP that killed sheep and didn't jump in then we just lol at him

Grr is meta very likely villager

Ender is villagery and also claims PR. gonna wifom this line to say he's the inverter role off PoE but it could be someone else hehe

Dolby is just posting villagery for me.

These two people I have as connected: Knights was a strong bop read and I also like that he focuses on jan / ladd and Gemma isn't really as villagery as I've seen of them, but I can't deny EoD1 is good for them. If ladd / wisdom / maple doesn't flip several wolves, then I guess here could be the disconnect and we were living in a "wolves got clapped early and we cleared them without knowing we were wagonning wolves". However, it felt like an EoD where wolves weren't active to me

Benneh / sunbae no real thoughts

Vanta Black I kinda feel like is a villager. As a wolf I think they'd succumb to the pressure that is this game and be really stilted and wolfy

Which leaves

Maple / ladd / wisdom / montmorency

[insomnia]

ladd / maple / wisdom are top priority for me. in the ideal world this is 3/3, but probably 2/3. If it's 1/3 then i'd be a little worried

benneh / sunbae probably has 1. this having 2 is probably unlikely

if the above is very wrong, gemma / knights prob has 1 if not 2, but i doubt the above is too wrong

montmorency i need to read

[insomnia]

another point against wisdom is that they had a typical progression from a wolf that will n1 newcomb

"blanket of comfort, he vibes really nice, good for you newcomb, wallposts really suck!"

if they are a villager though then I guess good job, but them not elaborating on it is hard to see it as genuine

[grr]

While I am at it.

Wisdoms progression on Sunbae:


breathes out of relief okay never mind I (Newcomb really) just got trolled

I feel so betrayed, I really trusted Sunbae lol


TIME FOR SOME HIPFIRE TRASH READS

I usually wait with sharing reads until I vibe hard enough or have found anything AI but let's do an experiment and just throw out the first thing that comes to mind on every player. I expect this to be terrible accuracy but hey maybe something is worth pursuing.

EnderWiggin -> Yeah I think he's probably town, good vibes in thread, doesn't remind me of his wolf games and I'm quite sure I've seen a few of them.

ColonelLubriderm -> Stop not being GH, I literally can't find you until you stop not being GH because every time you post I feel like I have to focus on reminding myself that you're not GH. I noted you as non w/w with someone but I'm not gonna check who. (I like you outside of that, Bop, just stop not being GH please)

Newcomb -> Feels like he's everyone's comfort blanket this game. He's my comfort blanket at least. Probably town.

didistetter -> Opening bugged me, good vibes in rest of post, but far from the super-stett I know and love. Null.

Jan -> Obv town, we should mason

Gemma -> Hi you were in my last game here so I'm sorry I haven't paid any attention to you

nebjiamn -> Mjeh no you tunneled me last game for having you in my PoE until I you got me yeeted (Despite me being obv!town), it feels like you haven't done much AI yet tho, but you haven't really been in my solve zone yet. I got pinged by your town read on me but meh.

theknightsofneeee -> People talk about you, you talk back, you've sadly not been in my focus yet.

ladd -> Vibes like town ladd? Not sure how to describe it. His town read on me felt more real than Benneh's.

dyachei -> You had a post that I liked earlier but I can't recall what it was about. Feels a bit UTR right now.

sheepsaysmeep -> Shrug

Sunbae -> Cute traitor

C0balt -> Is either wolf or misyeet bait, don't really want to go there today.

grr -> Also a bit UTR but I'm not sure if that's just because my solve zone hasn't handled everyone yet.

Raskolnikov -> Probably town and drunk

Maple -> Does Maple ever post anything AI d1? I'm not sure I've seen it.

insomnia -> Probably the one I've played with the most here and I still can't read you.

Arctic -> Someone said you sounded like a robot. I opened your ISO, noped, and then did other stuff.

Syn -> I don't like that I sus you when you seem happy. But my meta burned me last game so I'll just trust Rask's clear on you for the moment. Maybe one day I'll see what he sees.

Vanta Black -> Can't recall what you posted, sorry about that!

Just a spoiler to out those who only read their own name and then jumped to the spoiler


What, why did the site delete my reads? Can't stuff be put inside (smaller than) and (bigger than) symbols?

Immediate PoE 3-5 wolves (unordered):
Arctic
Bop
Dya
Gemma
Knights
Maple
Monte
Sunbae
Vanta

Least confident town reads (Unordered):
Benneh
C0balt
Insomnia
Sheep
Stett
Syn

------

I won't be able to be here 3 hours before EoD ever, but today I'm going to a boardgame event as well, just a fyi!



I might not have played a ton of games recently but I have railed some from the shadows and like, idk, I feel like people expect <thing> out of dya that dya just doesn't ever really actually do and then when they don't see <thing> they just shadeshadeshade and then dya gets on the defensive a bit and then because dya has been shaded when they start dropping reads people just throw their hands up a bit and go "oh shucks im not sure what to make out of all this ill just focus elsewhere for a bit" and then they and their reads just kinda sit in their own untouched universe for a couple game days

and like, idk, i read dyas posts and they seem like an obvious villager and id like to try to prevent that from happening here?

I really like this post! I don't see what Sunbae sees but it's a town point for Sunbae and a good reminder that I tend to sus Dya d1 for this exact reason. I still don't see the obv!town stuff but I believe Sunbae seeing it.



holy fuck I forgot about babydik, what an elite moment

I'm not gonna make it a thing but I think your sunbae read is soft. From my POV Sunbae is an elite wolf and his best skill is being able to put out casual, reasonable sounding posts in his sleep. Like literally nothing he's posted is remotely out of his wolfrange IMO. Granted i'm working with relatively old meta at this point.

I'm giving manti a daypass for the "first six words" post, that was slick

I don't really get the artic read. I mean I get the 'said something I thought = more likely village', sure. You're giving points for going all over explainy though? Why?

Noted wrt Sunbae! Still not someone I wanna yeet today.


I might be an idiot but I still think Sunbae's pure. I know it's dumb because it's all macro and I'm really looking for one micro reason to town read him, just anything that's slightly town indicative on a perspective level rather than tone/wim/solvyness, and I just can't.

But he's in my town lean pile anyway, he's cute, sue me.


I don't think I'll be able to play more tonight so just some last thoughts.

Jan is bleeding town and it's about far more than his opening, which in itself is enough to warrant the Wisdom D1 town lock tbh.

Other than that I don't have anyone I really want to bank the game on being town, but Newcomb, Ladd, Ender, Rask and grr are all up there. Yeeting Sunbae and Stett is probably a bad idea too.

Gemma is good enough to end my vote on but it sure sucks to miss the most fun/important part of the game.

Kinda surprised that there haven't really been any real spice so far (except grr pushing newcomb) but the game is fun and you're all awesome so I don't mind :3

With that I wish y'all a good night! <3 Stay hyped and hydrated!


Nvm I've probably slept enough

I would like to interact a bit before the americans realizes sleep is a good thing.

Sunbae, do you think the Syn wagon was pure and if so, why?



I don't think it has to be, no but it's hard for me to gauge the eod vibes without me being around so I'm just taking a lot at face value right now and seeing how everyone reacts today

Oh you also weren't there on EoD, darn ^^

You might be right, but in your woof pile I only really see Mont and Vanta as possible hits.

Thoughts on C0balt/Dolby? Doesn't see him on the list.



thank you for the lore background, saw people saying rask reads syn well but didnt realize it was to that degree. i always hesitate to put a lot of stock in the last sentence type things cause i cant really know what weird things people might try but I will keep it in mind. Out of curiosity, do you feel like Rask posted towards Syn near eod like someone who reads someone well and thinks they are a villager?

Don't think I've read the posts you're talking about. Last Rask/Syn thing I remember was Rask explaining to me why he thought Syn was town.


If I understood this right the following players didn't have a vote down at EoD1:
Cobalt/Dolby
Monte
Maple
Arctic
Sunbae

Maybe not important, I just needed to write it down for my brain's sake


No Arctic/Maple voted Syn last minute Visor just missed them.
Monte voted Rask at some point
Cobalt, Sunbae didn't vote, according to Grr's vote history.



I won't be around at all after these next few posts and vote. If you think I'm the best vote uh, good luck? Think that's hard to be the case on multiple fronts but I cannot stop you!

Still feel pretty ok with where I've been at. Think I've got a prettttty good swath of the game with reads. Doubt they are all accurate but I'm comfy with the reads and how I got there.

Keep circling back to Rask as my best wolf. Something about calling my reads too consensus while they are getting poo poo'd elsewhere for being too out there just makes me think it was shading and finding a reason to do so that sounds reasonable but hadn't actually been reading my posts or thinking about my reads. I don't think anyone else would call the reads consensus!

Still don't find Jan villagery. Don't see why others do and the only thing I get told when asked is "vibes" which, fair it's day 1, but I counter with "I get vibes that say opposite".

Sunbae can you walk me through why you didn't vote here or during the following 75 minutes you were in thread? You had been active, you had a wolf read.


I forgot about both Mont existing when I wrote that. Ben too, really, but it wouldn't have changed my point.

While it's not worth much, I thought that Benneh in a few bursts of posts (214 to 376 in his iso) varied shitposting with solving in a way that I associate with town PoV, but it's not worth much and doubt it's towny for him specifically.

Maple is mostly a bs read. I liked his talk about getting reversed but when Jan started talking about it I kinda changed my mind, doing mech stuff to mislead is exactly what I expect from w!Maple.

Sunbae just sounds pure.



have i ever explicitly told you that you're delightful to play with wisdom?

Oh, I really don't feel like I'm any fun at all this game, so thanks <3 It means a lot!

You too!


Ah that's how I phrased it, makes sense!

Yeah right now I'd say...

Top town
Colonel
Jan
Rask

Leaning town
Ender
Ladd

Probably also town
Arctic
Dya
Insomnia
Stett

Null
Benneh
Knights
Maple
Monte (I still can't recall 1 post from him and always forgets he exists)
Sunbae

Wolf lean
Dolby
Gemma
Vanta



My current town core is Dya/Knights/Grr (i trusted people on stett and arctic, ill trust em on Grr too)

Dya is 100% town. I kinda wanna stick to my Jan v read as well but I've pretty much reset overnight.

Why is Knights and Grr top town?


Grr is because I've had just so many people tell me Grr is a villager. Knights I made a long post on a bit ago



I know Bop mentioned them falling off day 2 but they also seemed to just be busy irl and I wont worry unless they fall off today too?


With Jan, I think he's claimed jailkeeper right?
Jan is that right? Standard jailkeeper now inverted?



The short time I spent in thread before leaving yesterday I thought grr was a bit wolfy tbh

I'll see if I can find your post later

(btw now that i come across this just saying my handling of rask was actually villagery af its clear i was confused about getting my top townread in a CC from someone who shouldnt be a wolf by how the claim went down and then decided to be convinced he is a wolf him after he made the wolfiest post in the entire thread, which shows i have no TMI and read also him exactly like what he was: a serial killer (probably). also makes no sense for me as wolf to push him there cuz if i was a wolf rask is a villa who announced to kill a (likely? dunno) villa tonight).



Could you elaborate on the grrr read?

It's mostly a vibe and I haven't checked it properly, but I think he wasn't doing much in with his time in thread at a point where it was very spicy



Oh no im getting invested :clown:

Vote: Sunbae

:wowee:


I forgot about Insomnia and Sunbae. Put them in no clue but I know others town reads them.

Gemma seems like the carton "lots of sus little push" wolf from what I've read. She's probably the best slot to solve atm.


You're forgetting that I'm doing what I can with limited information. I haven't read half d2 and when I don't have enough information on someone I sheep the consensus (ie Knights/Insomnia) but when I find wolfy stuff I'm gonna point it out.

Last game I had here I was pushed all game because my reads weren't consensus. I was wrong on Syn being wolf and he got yeeted d1. I had Logic town d1-d3 and then he got misyeeted. I had Benneh/Hally in my PoE almost all game despite both being consensus town read and after I got misyeeted Hally continued to solo win.

I have good intuition and I know to trust myself and that sometimes it's better to listen to others and sometimes I should listen to my gut and my reasons.

Like, the knights posts I've seen all have looked towny but not unfakeable. Same with Sunbae. And since they aren't focused in thread, I don't prioritze trying to find micro stuff on them because that's going to be easier with more flips anyway.


I have. less to say about this except it also fits the same pattern as with ladd without having a post that struck me as mega pingy. However her tossing sunbae and knights and sunbae and insomnia in bins kinda seems, weird to me as first of all they arent similar at all and second of all it just kinda feels like it's conceiling spew to me. (btw the "knights towny but not unfakeable" rubbed me the wrong in general its kind of half of a vanity thing ig cuz people are obv free to not share every read i make i just didnt like my TR there to be shot down that way.). I dont think Sunbae ever answered Wisdom about prodding about the no-voting and she forgot about it lol (which is also not damning god knows all the shit i forgot to follow up on in this game just a thing i noticed)

[grr]

yeah ih, i've read wisdom's posts where before, i'll be honest, i straight up ignored them

Not because i don't like their posts but only because I knew that if I did read them, i'd always come to the conclusion they're a wolf. Mostly because i was skimming all the time on forums and just always thought to myself "how are you supposed to villa read them?" but i really really hate some of the posts that i did end up reading

I guess your point adds up to my tinfoil of ladd being the KP. but in a ladd / maple / wisdom world they're all simply doomed

this is so funny the people who arent locktowning u are all wolves tbh. (yeah i kinda get it I started to ISO wisdom mid d2 before they claimed and was like "uhh uhhh. no idea" every post.)

[grr]

i have been bringing up bop/stett/newcomb/arctic!

I'm gonna have to look at that later. I think u might have yeah.

[insomnia]

can you quote their progression on newcomb?

pretty sure they were "vibing with him" when all he did was to ask sheep 3 questions and not much else

first time wolfing against the village goat just puts wolves in that mode of pocketing him out of hope that they can be overlooked for just 1 day until they can kill him

[insomnia]

and with that I monologued enough. not sure im gonna do anything else, you all have the floor

i have an interview in about 10 hours so im slep

[grr]

I think legacy wise everyone disliked maple (i hope he flips town cuz its funnier then), and everyone but sheep who TRed her didn't like wisdom, very broadly. (Newcomb had her as ???? or something he had other focuses but wasnt TRing her i believe).

[insomnia]

Ok yeah I had some slight disgust just reading wisdom's read on newcomb that i might actually case it for you all to see

But that's only 10% likely cuz I CAN'T BE DAMNED

such is the way of the washed

[Jan]

6 words. I need to look at that when I get to a pc.

[grr]

can you quote their progression on newcomb?

pretty sure they were "vibing with him" when all he did was to ask sheep 3 questions and not much else

first time wolfing against the village goat just puts wolves in that mode of pocketing him out of hope that they can be overlooked for just 1 day until they can kill him
i dont wanna quote stuff rn cuz its annoying to to so but

shrug, they vibes for much less:

Would be fun, if true! I've never seen him town from this side and I think we solve in a similar way. I really vibed with the "so far nothing AI post".

Also hi, it's been ages since we last played!<3


they TR on him or the vibing not an issue to me if im being honest, like obviously a wolf wouldnt scumread newcomb most of the time simply becuz... they would not want the attention (even when they know newcomb would probs townread them for it they'd be SCARED) but. shrug as i said i can see this also just being a whatever read lol. Calling him a comfort blanket felt a little out of place to me cause that didnt really match how people... interacted with him? talked to him? dunno. idk i dont really care so much about that i could just confbias that as "sure makes sense".

[grr]

my vote isnt final btw im just sending a MESSAGE :curtain:

(spiritual vote on whatever inso is voting, its maple rn but idrc.)

done for today gn.

[Gemma]

not really?
He is in the poe, but I don't know if he is more sus than he was yesterday.

I am trying to process if knights still tunneling me right now is a terrible village tunnel or a wolf using a crutch.
And it annoys me. A part of me wants to jail him spam "a/s/l?" in prison all night and kill him if he doesn't make me chuckle.

But I should pick someone that is more likely to flip wolf tbh.

Ladd wanting Maple dead when I can at least confirm that the invert part of the claim is real is another problem.
Not sure if I am giving too much leeway or not.
Not sure if Maple is be wolf kp that got inverted and still keeps it. (Inverting is more twisting than fully changing roles a far as I can tell).
The World claim fits well with the roleclaim (world is the last and highest card of the high arcana to my limited knowledge, which fits with the ability to draw all those lower cards).
"Whenever it comes up, this card represents what is truly desired."

I will not bet the game on a claim being a good flavor fit. But it does give me pause and adds to my doubt.

i mean the issue with maple's claim for me is that a) he visited a villager who died b) he said his role is self-resolving when it really isn't (inventor is confirmable but it can be either alignment) c) he said he has a pgo which is just super convenient - in other words none of it is convincing at all, the only reason for me not to kill him based on his claim is that i think inventors are fun

i think his role and flavor is real but that doesn't have anything to do with his alignment imo

and i dont v read his posting so

[Jan]

i mean the issue with maple's claim for me is that a) he visited a villager who died b) he said his role is self-resolving when it really isn't (inventor is confirmable but it can be either alignment) c) he said he has a pgo which is just super convenient - in other words none of it is convincing at all, the only reason for me not to kill him based on his claim is that i think inventors are fun

i think his role and flavor is real but that doesn't have anything to do with his alignment imo

and i dont v read his posting so
All of this is fair.

At a certain point of all on 1 tunneling I tend to doubt myself and think it is bad to follow because wolves want it too.
But wolves bus and you are correct that maple is not villagery based on posts (manti never is to me)

Years ago my go to manti read was
"does he focus on bussing a wolf D1? -> Yes!
"Okay, they are partners."
But that was 5 years ago.

[Gemma]

oh, what are your pronouns sorry
Maple

[dyachei]

ok so someone explain to me why maple is a wolf and not just a villager fucking around like he does?

And no mont, your argument of he did this in a previous wolf game is lame because he's also done this in a previous village game

[Gemma]

Gemma has pretty much the same reads as I do.

If she's w/w with both Maple and Ladd I don't think her only focus today would be ladd/maple/wisdom.

So if Ladd/Maple are w/w I don't think Gemma is wolfing but Gemmas play is quite narrow/static from what I've seen so she probably still a wolf.

Implying Maple/Ladd not being w/w.

xdd

[Maple]

oh, what are your pronouns sorry
Maple

any

[Gemma]

ok so someone explain to me why maple is a wolf and not just a villager fucking around like he does?

And no mont, your argument of he did this in a previous wolf game is lame because he's also done this in a previous village game

idk anything about their meta

[Gemma]

Even now no one has an idea of what the hell "inverted" is.

in tarot, the meaning of a card and its relation to other cards in a reading changes depending on the way the card is facing when it is dealt

look at the card in your role pm, it's facing upwards, the normal way

it can be turned sideways or upside down and that changes how its interpreted

"inverting" is just this game's language to describe that change

everyone has their role, then they have another hidden role. when they get inverted, their role changes to the hidden (and more fun) role

[Gemma]

I had a lot last night but I think waking up and catching up has removed it. Which is fine. Old me would have dug their heels in and forced themself to barrel through despite the fact that nobody really cares about anything I'm saying (and havent all game!) until people got the message. It's why I was rarely mischopped! New me just caught up and said "hm, alright then, yall do you and ill go to lunch and say glgl" which, tbh, feels absolutely divine.

https://www.falseknees.com/comics/imgs/370.png

[Gemma]

It is what I thought. Just double checking.
In that case I could target you and vice versa.
If I don't get a card you get executed.

Not sure if the village supports this off, but we both have day actions now apparently.

whew boy

thats a chonker

[Maple]

ok so someone explain to me why maple is a wolf and not just a villager fucking around like he does?

And no mont, your argument of he did this in a previous wolf game is lame because he's also done this in a previous village game

whats fucked up is im not even fucking around, im just playing my role

i didnt even fake claim!

[Gemma]

and i want it to be ladd but something (not a soft) just stops me from making the call even though objectively i think it's correct

personally i just dont really want to yeet a slot that my top townread strongly v read when i also have other slots i want to yeet

[dyachei]

whats fucked up is im not even fucking around, im just playing my role

i didnt even fake claim!

but you are without fake claiming. the way you've presented info is a fuck around way

[Gemma]

Here's the thing. I think Wisdom is a wolf who decided to not bus this game (a bird whispered to me once she generally decides pregame if she wants to bus or not and then sticks with it. i have seen this once myself). She is pretty stuck with their solving because of that, she needs to protect her wolfpals which is why her reads have pretty strange focus either on slots that gonna resolve soon anyway like Rask or Maple, or on slots that are pretty much dead-ends to sus into, stetter and me. recently she is kinda distancing from ladd but also still somewhat reluctant on it because she is the one who wants to end up being bussed, not vice versa.

thots? insomnia

ehhhh

im all for world building but this is too preflippy for my taste

[Dolby]

Is there any good way to circumvent the 100 post search result for ISOs here by the way? Best thing I've got is break posts by a player up by date in advanced search to have multiple searches, containing the full ISO

[Gemma]

also from what i have seen people are COMPLETELY dropping everyones legacies immediately so you'll also be forgotten the minute ur dead. xD I cant recall anyone ever referring to a legacy (it probably happened once or twice I struggle to be aware of everything).

(which is also kinda a subtle hint to me that dead villa legacies are probs decent).

here's my legacy:

https://www.falseknees.com/comics/imgs/279.png

[Maple]

Idk ladd isn't even posting particularly good I just find him villagery. Mb if I'm wrong.

Assuming rask was sk - or at 3p thats evil and kills cause jester would have been announced as winning - there's perhaps 3 wolves left.

I think ladd as wolf tries to kill me during the day harder especially because wolves couldn't reasonably expect me to end up with 0 new mechanical information unless the world we live in is fucked and crazy. I think ladd tries to push me over yesterday as wolf, to that end.

So anyway, world building for 3 is just very tough given how tight the poe is here.

It's reasonable for someone pushing for *specifically* me today to also sus a partner a bit since they can just "reevaluate" tomorrow, so I can't read into that, really.

Us having 2 more or less unstoppable kills here - the vote and Jan's execute means wolves more or less need to make 2 kills today assuming we play optimally, though.

[Gemma]

Ender is villagery and also claims PR. gonna wifom this line to say he's the inverter role off PoE but it could be someone else hehe

nah he claimed to have not used his action last night and jan was inverted

bop was inverter imo

[Gemma]

Which leaves

Maple / ladd / wisdom / montmorency

im not convinced on benneh and to an extent sunbae

benneh idk we have pretty similar reads which makes me hesitant but i havent really vibed with any of his takes even when we agree (eg he w reads ladd for pushing villagers and lists 2-3 names but ignores that ladds main push d1 was me and doesnt account for this anywhere in his world building) and his ender push was kinda eh

sunbae's just off in narnia and idk how to read into it

[Maple]

i will say being able to thank posts in game threads is extremely nice, it helps cut down on clutter and gives you an easy option for acknowledging posts.

[Gemma]

and with that I monologued enough. not sure im gonna do anything else, you all have the floor

i have an interview in about 10 hours so im slep

glgl

[nebjiamn]

im not convinced on benneh and to an extent sunbae

benneh idk we have pretty similar reads which makes me hesitant but i havent really vibed with any of his takes even when we agree (eg he w reads ladd for pushing villagers and lists 2-3 names but ignores that ladds main push d1 was me and doesnt account for this anywhere in his world building) and his ender push was kinda eh

sunbae's just off in narnia and idk how to read into it

idt you were ladd's main push d1, i would say it was sheep/knights, you were a side dish when the thread stagnated a bit. at least that's how i read things. ladd can feel free to clarify ig

and i've factored that in, but i don't have a strong village read on you so idt its fair or charitable for me to suggest you are also a reason ladd is a wolf in that world view when i know me/sheep are villagers, knights is likely one, but my confidence on you being one is pretty shaky at best. i could easily have things inverted between you/ladd so /shrug

[nebjiamn]

nah he claimed to have not used his action last night and jan was inverted

bop was inverter imo

bop claimed vt fwiw

id imagine inverter is still out there

[nebjiamn]

idrg the hate on my ender push

dude was wolfy and he was a PR so i'm validated :hmmyes:

[Dolby]

idrg the hate on my ender push

dude was wolfy and he was a PR so i'm validated :hmmyes:

he towning or wolfing?

[Gemma]

like on one level some of sunbae's takes are so far left field that i sort of struggle to see them being real and worry that i'm conditioned by having seen too many insane takes to think that villas really can just think anything no matter how ridiculous and backwards it is

i also havent put in the effort to really read through their reads and see if theres any kind of internal consistency or whatever

so im just kinda shrugging at them

and idk i sorta find it hard to believe that our poe is entirely correct (tbh i'll be relieved if even 1 of ladd/wisdom/maple are a hit) and i cant help but be paranoid about worlds where slots like benneh and sunbae are just sorta sitting back and playing for d6

[nebjiamn]

he towning or wolfing?
i dont actually know anymore. selfishly i want to say wolf but him being clear is also cool and helpful. i did think his flurry today was villagey but idk who i would be misclearing in that scenario


like on one level some of sunbae's takes are so far left field that i sort of struggle to see them being real and worry that i'm conditioned by having seen too many insane takes to think that villas really can just think anything no matter how ridiculous and backwards it is

i also havent put in the effort to really read through their reads and see if theres any kind of internal consistency or whatever

so im just kinda shrugging at them

and idk i sorta find it hard to believe that our poe is entirely correct (tbh i'll be relieved if even 1 of ladd/wisdom/maple are a hit) and i cant help but be paranoid about worlds where slots like benneh and sunbae are just sorta sitting back and playing for d6

which ones

[Gemma]

idrg the hate on my ender push

dude was wolfy and he was a PR so i'm validated :hmmyes:

i think its partly cause i feel like your take couldve been more nuanced than just his posts squick u given ur experience w/ him, also i didnt rly agree with u, also i think im just baseline sus of ender pushes lhf etc

[Gemma]

which ones

sort of all game tbh, mostly recently the insom/benneh/gemma team

[Gemma]

ordered my thoughts a bit more

0 wolves
dya
grr
insom

prob v
nee
dolby

prob v no fear
vanta
ender

sorta v but def at least 1 wolf in here imo
benneh
sunbae
monty
jan

sorta w
wisdom
ladd
maple

[Dolby]

Looking back I just realized that Maple and Wisdom just kinda had the same POE? Wisdom had Gemma/Me/Monty/Vanta in a post earlier today before they decided after prompting that Maple was bad and voted them, and Maple had that same poe + Benneh (and presumably ladd). I kind of think that having that POE is wolf indicative anyway but I also think that, looking at this from Wisdom specific POV if Wisdom and Maple are w/w, why have any of your other teammates below Maple?

Dolby
Dya - though I think that there is a VERY slim world where mafia somehow found out that Rask is SK and they CCed to kill him and fakeclear

Knights
grr
Insomnia

Monty - yes he is up here and yes I think he still could be 3p
Jan - realisitcally I think with his current claimed role he is forced to use it in a pro town way even if wolf. Could be wolf roleblocker I guess (funny).
Benneh
Vanta
Gemma
Sunbae
Ender

Wisdom
Ladd
Maple

I think that within the big middle group Monty and Jan are probably town and as long as I resolve doubt on the people between Benneh and Ender we're fine?

I straight up think that Maple/Wisdom/Ladd are 3/3 and I'd expect more from Maple today on the sole basis that Maple is the presumptive yeet.

[Dolby]

Wisdom
EnderWiggin

what were your reasons to think the sheep kill was performed by town during early day 2?

[Dolby]

I think Ender EOD1 is sus still, and how he talks about Ladd throughout the game (though this bit may change if Ender comes in with something that I like process wise), but if maple, ladd, wisdom keep hitting that is something I worry about then on Day 6


I mean my defense is "Rask has been catching Syn for months on D1 and has them as a townread" and that just feels bad as a defense.

Also Knights said they'd look into Cobalt for me and has done ~nothing despite me reaching out and trying to take their Jan read at face value and assume them town for a moment. Which honestly feels kinda bad.

I acknowledge the "Laptop on fire" defense, but I feel like that came wayyyyy later after my initial dialogue. (I even just ISO'd Knights just now to make sure.)


Re: Sunbae

I kinda think they're wolfier than not myself. Though I'm not pursuing this rn because:
1. Too late
2. I want to give Sunbae a bit of time because when we HAVE been t/t (on the rare cases) it's been a vibe. And a lack of that D1 doesn't necessarily mean they're wolf.

But Sunbae coming in with "We gotta work together!!!" when sentiment finally shifted towards sussing them feels like damage control imo. When they haven't shown any of that sentiment before they got sussed.

Definitely something I want to revisit tomorrow and (hopefully) have time in thread with them instead of being the ships passing timezones.
I've mentioned not vibing with Ender's pushes on Sunbae and Benneh despite not fully townreading them and this is a good example because, while Sunbae has come in moments when he was in danger (speaking specifically about day one) and he did pass by in part by putting out positive vibes in a somewhat forced way, but I don't dislike it because Sunbae has been transparent about that the whole game. and I just don't feel any of what Sunbae has done before day three constitutes damage control? Like, at most I can say that any given post he makes has influence on one person, it's not crafted for that.


Ngl I have negative viewpoint on Manti. I should probably fix that at some point.

This just feels like a throwaway line about a teammate in future context of the one slot that I was specifically trying to engage with Ender on in the future ~:confused: . Yes this is pre-flipping Maple

At some point in day two I asked him his take on Maple and brought up that Syn had Maple unnaturally high up in his read list, and he responded saying he didn't really have a take on Maple and asked for posts from me (which I couldn't really provide since I had only just come to Maple via Syn at the time) and then just never engaged with me on it and stayed on Rask the whole day. i will grab those posts when I come across them


Vote: Rask

Why, what is this on my face? Egg? Mmm. Nice and salty.

(I read back overnight and I'm gonna say ~probably Knights is just town and I'm an idiot.)

Just catching up now. Long day. Plus got like no sleep last night so if I sound insane it's because I actually am.

I'm gonna try reading and vibing and see how long until I pass out.

Votes Rask at start of day and never moves after this. Maybe he would have moved if there wasn't the CC from Dya but I'm pretty sure he didn't post after the CC happened. He does correctly land on knights town, but he should have a take on Rask that isn't this considering that Rask was basically a separate flashwagon also happening at the same time, and logically I think that makes syn/rask less likely to be w/w than the base level "rask is dragging his teammate out of the water" take suggesets. He kinda acknowledged the rask wagon as not great d1 to


That is a wild left field.


Any specific posts you can point me at? I honestly don't have a good grasp on Maple as a whole.

like idk this is the maple thing I addressed earlier but like, I expect SOMETHING when he mentioned not liking the slot earlier and we vibe but I'm a scumread of his asking him "hey I think Maple is sus and is potentially linked with Syn". I'd expect some level of deeper investigation on d2, not just staying on Rask. Wisdom and Ender both only seemed to hop onto Maple because unlike day two it doesn't feel like day three can end in any way but a maple elim (though tbh I wouldn't be strictly opposed to going ladd or wisdom).


Oh I haven't said this but Monty's EOD was pretty towny of him IMO. Some of the D2 start also feels a lot like the game I ML'd him when we were both town, and I like to think I learn from mishammering =P

the one thing that I like from his d2, and i'll do it one better that this actually looks particularly good looking through a rask/syn w/w world, then what was Monty doing voting wolf!Rask then unvoting him when he can just bus either whoever is going over (not Rask, it's Syn) or whoever is the worse role for mafia and get away with it bc flipless

he has good reasoning later on that isn't this


I remember him mentioning the Syn wagon looked good and he didn't want to go Knights. (Who was a major alternate wagon.) That doesn't feel like someone who is partnered unless he was gonna bus, which he didn't.

Also his unvote when Rask was 4 and Syn JUST got put to 3, to make it 3/3/3 also doesn't feel partnered. Esp with him not revoting to push a different option.
tbh I can't clear him for it but yeah. i do kind of think that from earlier comments it's kinda weird for him to not vote in rask/syn so yeah

he has another monty post but im not gonna quote it, just say that it's good


I townread Grr rn but I'm just not with the mental energy to sort through your wall posts that I'm seeing in my catchup. I'm sorry.
weird take


In counterpoint to Arctic I kinda thought Ladd looked ~okay.

When I have played against him as wolf he's tended to find weak town players and push them relentlessly. (Point of fact, I was one of the players he pushed when wolf.)

Alongside the melds that Arctic is directly talking about, I also just don't feel that the "Wolf!Ladd finding town targets to push" exists here in so much as I'd expect.

Maybe I'm wrong. But maybe I'm right ya know?
yeah

ladd just feels very lackluster this game and my problem is like

he pushes peopel to extent d1 but d2 he plops on Maple and then explores elsewhere, from his behavior, I had no idea that he was sus of, or had voted maple until I went through and specifically looked for maple/ladd interactions. I think he is looking for townies to push. Maybe I'm wrong on benneh/sunbae, from enders pov those are good pushes, but I kind of think that ladd's benneh/sunbae/maple/monty 1. looks bad because maple and monty especially feel like low hanging fruit agnostic to their actual alignements 2. imo is 1/4, maybe it's 2/4 at best, tbh I could be wrong on benneh and/or sunbae but just like, idk I just don't like it

I think if this was any other player but ladd I'd be fine with this post (maybe I'd be opposed if it was about specifically wisdom to)

And that ends Ender's day two and I just realized that he just plops his vote on Rask but doesn't really do anything with it. Quotes Rask once doesn't try to steer anyone there. Day two was just a busy day for him, I've talked about how I've been worried about how I have a false positive from that, but I still have concerns.


Didn't you have a pretty good townread on me from D1?
I actually like this post a lot if Wisdom w. Wisdom had Ender above the bulk of their townies, and I'm pretty sure that that occurred while Ender was in the thread and before he claimed PR. This is something i expect town Ender to notice and remember


"I self resolve" can very easily be code for "I have KP I need to unload before you wagon me" tbh.

Which I should know more and I feel kinda dumb for not having thought of that yesterday when Manti was claiming self-resolving.

If ender was posting stuff like this yesterday I'd be comfortable townreading him (namely bc of the differing gamestates between yesterday and today) and probably have decided that wolfreading him over a series of posts in the 200s was stupid. Sadly he didn't and I have to contend with there is a good possibility that Ender's and especially Wisdom's maple takes are coming out the way they are now because it's evidentially clear that we aren't going to give Manti one more day like yesterday


...

Does Jailkeeper block non-killing actions?

If so (Respectfully) fuck you.
this is actually a super townie Ender post.


Sure.

But it feels sus for you to go from "I townread Ender pretty hard" to not really making a read on me D2 and then D3 being like "I don't remember their posts so they can go in the sorta sus pile."

ender hellbussing the team minus ladd (I actually really like this and I feel like this energy was missing d2)

In retro I wasn't liking that Ender wrote off Monty as a more likely 3p to easily, but I actually like that he wasn't using it as a way to push him reading through it again


On this note:

Can I talk to you about Benneh/Sunbae?

I think there's definitely a wolf in there from how D1 went with me.

Yes, yes, self-centred reads. But I have caught wolves with em before and you know that. (I want Maple over today but this is definitely a direction I want to explore for tomorrow/later.)
maybe there is


Sunbae: I've done a review of EOD1 and D2 and Monty/Ladd/Knights/Dya look towny

Me: *Stares at d2 reads where those were 4 of my main reads.*
Again the energy is just so different from d2

i do think that having insomnia on a wolf list is kinda whack tho


Monty is either town or 3p imo.

I stand by my read that his EOD1 isn't paired with Syn.

I said 3p because like... I just don't understand his play and that makes more sense.

Also to be clear:
I don't think he was actually paired with Rask.

yeah this is like, town ender thought, town energy

I really do need him to re-ev Ladd, ender d3 is good and I'm just worried d2 was a off phase for him. Heck the mid day one energy from him is popping as well but I am not bringing that here. I don't think I can call him strong town but this readthrough does justify at minimum being way above wisdom

Gonna reconfirm Vanta to myself then call it a night. probably explore in sunbae/gemma/benneh/jan if i still have the energy

[Dolby]

Vanta Black what are your reads at right now?

I read Vanta Black's ISO, thought it was lightly towny, until I saw the Dya vote. i think it's kinda not what mafia would do to ask the thread which one should I vote when half the thread is there and then vote Dya over Rask

[Dolby]

If Ender is town and maple/wisdom/ladd is 3/4 of the team I think that the "who am I misclearing" question likely constrains itself to Sunbae at this exact moment in time.

with that said I am probably living in fantasy land if i think all three are hits

[grr]

ehhhh

im all for world building but this is too preflippy for my taste

FWIW you aren't wrong. it's just something that does make sense, the boring bottom line is that one comment pinged me as very partnered so i just checked if it clicks into space for me.

I'm still asleep or something so gone again.

[Dolby]

Starting on Jan bc I am hoping he is the easiest clear, but also because if I look at d1 eod I don't think that Jan or Maple HAVE to be wolves, but I think the odds raise A LOT from how the EOD went down. I think that Maple may have been trying to exploit Jan's wrong read on Rask and no one else in a position to try to do it


"Well met, kind soul."

I like this one.

grr..
first time playing with ih (?) and gives an instant townread, good sign


Tiers of citizens(not sorted within)
Tier 1
Didistetter
Newcomb
Wisdom

Tier 2
Syn
insomnia
Arctic

Tier 3
EnderWiggin
Ladd
grr

Slums
Raskolnikov
C0balt

people I should have a read on but I simply don't
dyachei
Sunbae

people I should not have a read on and I don't
Vanta Black
nebjiamn
Gemma
ColonelLubriderm
Maple
Montmorency
Theknightsofneeee
sheepsaysmeep

I don't have a good wolfread right now. But I feel good about ~half of the game!
That is close to a winning poe, maybe!

sees wisdom tier 1

uh

sees syn tier 2

uhhh

sees ender and ladd tier 3

uhhhh

sees two non wolves in slums

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


Ladd locked you in as a villager. Tells me that I should have some read on you or ladd is a wolf with tmi (or a villager showing reads at a wall).

I like this post


and that is why you are classified as a tier 3 citizen.

back to mines with you.

I think this is a towny attitude with regard to somebody wanting to be townread more than you think they deserve to be at that moment in time


the knights problem is that he is tunneling me for a reason that makes a lot of sense to him.

I have called him an easy villa read a lot in the past year.
I normally either find him early or assume he is a wolf.
Me not interacting with him so far should be a red flag to him.

and that red flag turned into a tunnel.

The problem is that I did not catch on early to him in one of our recent games and am changing my approach.
(not sure if it was anni or the game before. but I remember having a bad soft clear on knights d1 in a game within the last 2-3 months)



Newcombs reasoning is fine.

The first point is mute because I am certain that it is how knights starts every game I remember.
knights into is normally
"something about randing villa

line saying hello"
the added line in the middle in a new forum is not out of character.


The 2nd point about knights read on me is fine.
I have trouble judging it because I know knights (if villa) is in a silly tunnel that just got half his quotes eaten and might take some shortcuts because of it.
Doesn't really excuse lack of analysis.

This all to say I see a fence. I sit on it.
I love this, when I was reading thread upon subbing in I thought that Knights was an obvious villa and I was surprised to see no one agreeing with me in the thread. I unfortuantely can't speak much towards the reasoning lol, but I like it all the same


this is your post. had to look it up.

I don't disagree with your take.
enders takes are things I can simply nod along and fakeable as wolf.

both examples here are just expert fence sitting tbh.
I tend to have very similar thoughts early on a lot of times. it is why I didn't bother placing sheep or knights in my early list for example.

I can see your reason. And I am curious how ender evolves when he comes back.
I don't think it is damning in any way. to me it is just something that a wolf could easily fake, but a villager might post as well.
I think I like this post. He has Ender as towny but is acknowledging the fundemantal view of what Sunbae is seeing in this post (sidenote that I do not think that constitutes starting the ender wagon), but just explaining why it isn't that strong a shot


Rask can you order my reads from most to least consensus:

Neb town
Dya obvious villager
Maple town (though pondering more I admit now)
Knights light towny
Insomnia towny
Jan wolfy
Ender wolfy
Rask wolfy

I think that this list makes Sunbae next to read tbh (I guess I can see ender/jan as a world but I kind of think the claim alone makes Jan a pretty likely villa)


I am frozen right now.

I dislike most pushes but have no real place to go myself.

The fact that others are exploring new avenues right now makes me feel slightly better about it.
Not knowing where I want to go and staring at the player list with more questions than answers is just not helpful.
I like this post, especially in the context of his EOD especially. jan has Rask and C0balt (my slot) as his two susses, which really explains why he's so strong for rask when rask becomes an option. He could have put his weight behind another wagon earleir (before Rask formed) to help counter the syn push. He probably could have got on gemma specifically pretty easily even without a solid take there, but he didn't. He got on Rask once Rask, his strong sus, became viable, but he didn't have an agenda before that moment


I have seen knights as villager tunnel villagers to the ground while I sat on the sidelines (as villager) calling him washed. (the knee v boob drama of 2024)

Him tunneling me now fits the mold in a lot of ways. His new persona seems to be dude stuck in a tunnel.

My main problem with knights is that his second top wolf is gemma who is his counterwagon.
That choice feels like a cop-out and not like an actual wolfread.
tbh still fine with this


Vote: Sunbae

I can't help but look at this vote as genuine in the sea of scattered posts surronding it


I think there are two worlds and I doubtpeople will follow me.

We may be somewhat right and this is an easy game but my gut yells at me that we are not.

Or Sunbae is a wolf. (possibly with ladd, but maybe ladd is willing to tell the class about his sunbae read).
lol lmao


I had similar thoughts while going for a walk/shopping.

My heart is not into ender or knights wagons at all.
And gemma is shrug coinflip material right now.

None of it feels good.

I would hate to be wrong on sunbae, but it is where my head went several times in the last hour.
yeah this guy does not have an agenda. Could have pushed Gemma easily once Syn became viable given how he was reading Syn as a pretty strong towny early in day (heck gemma could still be a wolf but i feel that the gemma/jan worlds are slim and I'm looking other places anyway), but he's pushing in spaces that are actually genuine for him, and when he doesn't have that opportunity he's exploring.


Syn is in his town meta from what I can tell.
I am kind of too lazy to look the start differences between his game again.
But rask had the same read and I don't think it is wrong. (and I doubt rask would bother to fake that read if w/w because it outs both of them)

stett feels like the most obvious villager in the game. I do not know her wolf game well.

Wisdom - has me pocketed for now. I just know I have rose-coloured glasses on and thus my opinion has little value.
dislike the wisdom read tbh

I think that this would prompt some change in the positioning of rask but this is probably just w/e


I claimed a great read on wisdom for a long long time just by never having seen her be a wolf.
Do not underestimate my hubris.

I think a lot of my confidence comes from hosting the anon game and watching you play there.
this is really funny to read tbh


you judge syn on how snarky he is. you know that.

he was dennis the menace in cereal killer as villa and ghandi in saints and sinners as wolf.

I just left my fucking bed reread 3 of his games which I was too lazy to do until you idiots started forming a wagon this late in the day. (and apparently nobody else does the legwork)

And he is not as snarky as he was before but more than he was a wolf. which is frustrating.
I would kill rask before I kill syn because Rask has called syn lock villa somewhat early and I don't think rask as villa would be wrong.

In that weird world the team is syn/rask/wisdom + whoever. I am not confident on that, but it is possible?

While at a PC for a moment:



this take is actually bad. sunbae stopped posting because he was topposter and actually had some fine solving post in the last 24 hours.
both in absolute post as well as in % sunbae is way above ben in content. it is just not a good take.

I think this is fine in the context of his past posting. i guess I could say I would like it more if he didn't claim to have re-eved Syn's meta (would make his actions look better I think), but I think that it's ultimately just fine given he was actively sussing rask during day

he then basically afks for 40 minutes then tries to pull up a quote to defend syn and get rask killed which I just don't think is a wolf play tbh?


this was rasks last take on syn.

and then votes Gemma when it's clear that Syn is going over and tbh I don't really like it considering how much he's talked about being dissatisified with Gemma as a option AND that he re-eved Syn as being between his town and wolf metas, but I think his EOD is overall fine despite this. Would have liked it more if he stayed on Rask but at that point syn was gone


vote: gemma

Tbh I don't feel like reading his D2 maybe tomorrow. I tried to read and I kinda felt like giving up before half a page but I felt like his reads looked like someone's who's worldview genuinely just collapsed entirely so that's points for him

probably just a v yeah

[Dolby]

Visor can we have vote count please?

[Wisdom]

Wisdom
EnderWiggin

what were your reasons to think the sheep kill was performed by town during early day 2?

Because I expected wolves to have an arsonist. And there was a lot of open sus on Sheep d1.

[ladd]

sap, here is where I am at. Only time I will be able to post from a pc today probably

v
ladd
insomnia
grr
jan
dya
gemma
dolby


I am pretty confident the above has 0 wolves, dont really care to go into detail on any of them rigth now cause I am short of time but dont touch them until lylo.

the rest
maple
wisdom
ender
vanta
monty
knights
benneh
sunbae



my FEELING without reading back is that vanta/monti are probably villagers but it's also hard to fully clear them with confidence

Of the 2 i think monti has the more tangible reasons to actually be cleared, it feels like he is in his own little word in a villagery way when he is around

I also think vanta is probably spewed v by wisdom w



Sunbae has been saying all the right things today, in the sense that i have agreed with 99% of the things he said. My only problem is that I just cant find any reason why it cannot be just a wolvf spinning his wheels? Like I read dolby solving and think he is an obvious villager, I sadly just dont get the same feeling from sunbae posts but if someone pointed a gun to my head I would say they are a villager



Knights's posting just isnt cutting it with me, sorry. I think his push on Jan should have been revaluated a while ago and I really dont find anything he has said this game villagery, the issues I had with him d1 are all still there. In the end if he is a wolf who decided to buss at eod1 his posting would look pretty much exactly like this



Gonna talk about benneh cause it ties into my knights read well enuf since knights/benneh is a thing I have been strongly considering in my mind from like early d1. I have been unfair to benneh this game and for that sorry, I know i have been lazy as fuck in actually reading you. I think their bottom 4 being 3 pr claims+1 me isnt a great sign and i think the way he is pushing maple today is a bit sueperficial but more importantly I just cant really find villa benneh after 3 days which is pretty unsual.



And then we have the 3 PR claims:

ender - i want him to claim for clarity cause he has been softing giving stett somethign and that seems to kinda counterclaim maple but he has been vague about it. Idk I just feel there is so much pr claims+he is in the POE where I dont see any reasong for him not to claim. Gth think villa but want claim. Not w/w with benneh


maple - i'll be real, the only thing I dislike with manti wrt the claim is that they said they were self confirmable yesterday which isnt exactly true even if someone got the card since apparentely manti does nto know what the cards do? I think arctic was an ok target given how many PR claims were around

wisdom - i am sad but i think they are just a wolf. Their firefighter claim mechanically just doesnt make sense to me, I have seen them claim early as a wolf before, their d2 was pretty bad and i thought their vanta push on d2 in particular felt super lazy from them. I just think from d2 on they have missed the SPARK. I also dont like they they have been leaning on their softs as a way to make their claim more villagery- the truth is that most villagers dont actually care to soft. If it helps bop also wanted them dead before dying

[Dolby]

Ladd what do you think of the following

Sunbae saying today that Knights is close to lock v for them for eod1 activity

Maple kinda just not doing much so far today? Perhaps this is uncharitable to say but beyond Maple making two posts which are functionally just lists of players he likes the most Maple has done imo is try to get one more day via Jan the jailkeeper. Thats something that’s been increasing my confidence the slot is a hit today

That generally more sus slots have voted Maple today than yesterday

If Maple and or Wisdom flips w how does that impact your read on Benneh?


Fwiw I agree with you on Vanta being spewed v by Wisdom w. I also think that that applies to Gemma as well (though to a lesser extent and I feel worse about Gemma than you do it seems)

If you had sole control of the elim who would it be? I assume wisdom? I want Maple to die today but wouldn’t be super mad if Wisdom went. Also if you could talk a bit about Gemma to I appreciate it bc I think Gemma v but don’t have that high

[ladd]

Ladd what do you think of the following

Sunbae saying today that Knights is close to lock v for them for eod1 activity


yea i have been considering sunbae/knights too (tho i remember knights was v hard on sunbae d1 but maybe not outside of distancing range); i think benneh/knights is a smoother fit but shrug.pg

i think its v easy to read knights by reading eod1 since he had a good buss, should he be a wolf. But with wagons essentially being w/v (rask counts as v) I am just left wondering wtf wolves were doing

Jan was giving them an out to save syn but no one defended syn, except jan himself (and super softly ender); so imo either wolves were not around or were bussing

I could be wrong on knights obviously, but to me right now it just feels like he bussed and there is no more much space to hide


Maple kinda just not doing much so far today? Perhaps this is uncharitable to say but beyond Maple making two posts which are functionally just lists of players he likes the most Maple has done imo is try to get one more day via Jan the jailkeeper. Thats something that’s been increasing my confidence the slot is a hit today

i dont really have manti as villagery, so I am not sure I have an answer to that

I think manti posting today is in either of their ranges



If Maple and or Wisdom flips w how does that impact your read on Benneh?

i had benneh/wisdom as slightly not w/w d1 but i dont think it's a read i'd be willing to uphold on d3

maple flip has no effect on benneh alignment afair



If you had sole control of the elim who would it be? I assume wisdom? I want Maple to die today but wouldn’t be super mad if Wisdom went. Also if you could talk a bit about Gemma to I appreciate it bc I think Gemma v but don’t have that high

I would kill wisdom


Gemma had the single most important vote at eod1 (made syn an actual possibility) and their posting today and since shows an underlying level of paranoia that is pretty rare for a wolf to fake. Like I dont think this is a post made by a wolf:


like on one level some of sunbae's takes are so far left field that i sort of struggle to see them being real and worry that i'm conditioned by having seen too many insane takes to think that villas really can just think anything no matter how ridiculous and backwards it is

i also havent put in the effort to really read through their reads and see if theres any kind of internal consistency or whatever

so im just kinda shrugging at them

and idk i sorta find it hard to believe that our poe is entirely correct (tbh i'll be relieved if even 1 of ladd/wisdom/maple are a hit) and i cant help but be paranoid about worlds where slots like benneh and sunbae are just sorta sitting back and playing for d6

[ladd]

Jan do you get a chat with the person you jail ToS style?

[Jan]

Jan do you get a chat with the person you jail ToS style?
Yes. They get to tell me their role and beg for their life at the same time!

[nebjiamn]

i agree on wisdom's w equity and the out of placeness of the claim in relation to everything else. idrg it but she did fake claim as a wolf in a recent 12/12er i hosted where she claimed some kinda cop (vanilla cop or somethin idr) on d2 as and survived / won the game off that silliness. if i draw a parallel from that game to this one the a) apparently unnecessary claim timing and b) the believability of the role existing in the roleset given everything else we know (she claimed that cop when other investigative had been elim'd d1 and i think the other PR had a pseudo invest like a desperado or smth) line up with my perception of the current game state and her place in it.

the 3p!devil would make sense thematically as an arsonist but there's ~0% shot rask tried to fake claim a vig shot that wasn't his own and the rest of the apparent KP in the game doesn't align with an arsonist existing unless they ignited last night AND arctic... shot someone he was village reading

my worry is that maple is wolf KP and wisdom is a meh role/Goon particularly because how the self-resolving/attention drawing occurred and if w we look at another 2/3 deaths tomorrow. but in that world i feel like wisdom would be lolcatting to throw the lunch here and they seem content? maybe that's telling lol

maybe we flip it around and kill wisdom here and have jan jail/kill maple? idk

[Gemma]

yeahhh i aint killing ladd

[insomnia]

interview taken, job taken

i remember wishing to see how it would be like to mash as a person with a full time job. be careful what you wish for guise, they do come true

don't feel like doing much today, i've already let out pretty much all my thoughts. maple / wisdom just have to get flipped before i care to do anything else. if a moment of inspiration hits, i might actually read the game or something. other than that i'll prob be shitposting

[insomnia]

im very comfortable rn cuz gemma / dolby / ender that group isn't giving me reasons to be worrisome. i villa read all of them

i really like how dolby keeps saying maybe ender is villa but he keeps going back to sticking him in wolfteams, it reads like a villa with a read he's not willing to let go as easily and just looks incredibly genuine. it'd be tough to pull off a progression like that this smoothly imo

[Gemma]

interview taken, job taken

i remember wishing to see how it would be like to mash as a person with a full time job. be careful what you wish for guise, they do come true

don't feel like doing much today, i've already let out pretty much all my thoughts. maple / wisdom just have to get flipped before i care to do anything else. if a moment of inspiration hits, i might actually read the game or something. other than that i'll prob be shitposting

congrats (i hope)

as a person with two jobs who also studies full time, i can tell you it's a fine fun time (anni was the first mash i ever did)

the key as ever is to potato

[ladd]

interview taken, job taken

i remember wishing to see how it would be like to mash as a person with a full time job. be careful what you wish for guise, they do come true

don't feel like doing much today, i've already let out pretty much all my thoughts. maple / wisdom just have to get flipped before i care to do anything else. if a moment of inspiration hits, i might actually read the game or something. other than that i'll prob be shitposting

Nice!

Congrats (or commiseration, depends pov)

[insomnia]

here is newcomb's posts that aren't straight up fluff


What led to this being a wolfread rather than a request for clarification or a you shrugging and moving on?

Like you're saying this guy is double pinging you essentially for having different takes on something. So why "this person might be mafia" vs. "I don't understand what this person saw here"?

Like what stones are you throwing exactly here - bad faith? Motivation? TMI?


Alright i'm headed to bed. No one has done anything i'd consider hugely alignment indicative either way; feels like one of those games where it's mostly just villa chitchatting for a while, like after a few pages you start getting the feeling maybe 0-1 wolves have even posted.

still waiting for the token bad entrance d1 wolf I can lazily kill and then get n1'd but honestly that'd be lame as fuck

wisdom's reads after these posts. not only does she not list him as villa here, she doesn't even mention anything w/r/t him. safe to assume she didn't find anything villagery about him because of this, no?


Town
Jan

Town Vibes
Sheep
Stett

Time to cuddle with a baby with coffee stained clothes :3

then, newcomb's posts since her posted villa reads


what on earth


it's a little ego-y but I think i'm gonna townread ladd for this; I think the threadstate thing I posted before going to bed is one of those things that only crystalizes with a certain amount of experience and especially its relevance only really sticks out if you're thinking about the game in a certain way. Not that that way is explicitly good or the right way to play or anything, i'm really contorting my arm to avoid patting myself on the back here. But basically like, thinking about the game in terms of overall mafia archtypes and what kind of game it feels like compared to the breadth of your mafia experience, that is something it makes sense for ladd to recognize and then vibe with.

And in running the mental cross check for pocketing and TMI I don't like... exclude it categorically but it definitely feels more in the goldilocks zone than not.

I also think if that's actually a pocket w!ladd attempt I'm not sure he could resist a subtle prop or jab at the accuracy of the "0-1 wolves" thing? That's maybe stretching the mental map of ladd a bit too far to be comfortable. Feels right though.


now this I don't like as much

the second line feels like something you just throw in to add the appearance of depth without there being any real consideration

As I'm typing this though I'm recognizing that there's perhaps a bit of "townreading someone who townreads you is such a goober thing to do off the bat" that i'm reflexively doing the opposite to prove to myself i'm not a chump

gonna let this one marinate


i'm cool with it

Who is Sett?

you can just make something up and i'll never know until I get hella confused on D3


I fucking hate that I like this

her next post, first time mentioning newcomb



Newcomb/Ladd is unlikely w/w and I feel like I agree with everything they say even when I don't. So, hopefully both are town and shouldn't be too hard to find them if they're alive wolves in later game.


first of all, this is a really lolwtf read, but like i said, she has these ~all of the time as a villa, which is why i approached her slot the way i did (by not trying to read into anything that seems obviously set up to be a false positive), but wut in duh hell

not only does newcomb not renew any of her previous reads, he actually goes against her sheep villa read. not really by way of pushing, but just by prodding him

idk, maybe im too focused on this and she really picked up on something villagery, but it was only until the latter half of the phase where i personally thought newcomb was fine. i think a lot of others mentioned newcomb being neutral, some people said wolfy, but other than her and cobalt, nobody expressed a villa read of newcomb so early. and i guess ladd too, but ladd is the exception hehe. her villa read just seems blase and not really interested in reading him, from the get go she didn't have anything to object or a curiosity regarding him, she doesn't have to, but this treatment is a bit odd to me considering only a few people pointed newcomb out as a villa, but the difference is in their reads they felt like a "based on one post" sorta gut take, not holistically like wisdom is implying

dunno if that makes sense for anyone but im using this as an opportunity to perhaps try to make other cases and read more

[insomnia]

if i struggle really hard, i can see her point. but what i don't get is why then ignore their reads or not follow them. that's the part i don't get. or try to work the disagreements with them if i feel they might be right? but again, the problem is that newcomb specifically wasn't really pushing anything that wisdom expressed disagreement with, he only started gearing up in the 2/3 of the day and he still had just a cobalt light shade that he even said he'd "let it marinate" and a villa read that wisdom already had. so what are the things newcomb did that you disagree'd with but could see him being right?

it's still a twtbawtbawtbaw etc etc read and this is p much how i perceive wisdom's playstyle so i really dont know how to even parse it. just upset if she's a villa that i can't villa read her lol

[Wisdom]

here is newcomb's posts that aren't straight up fluff





wisdom's reads after these posts. not only does she not list him as villa here, she doesn't even mention anything w/r/t him. safe to assume she didn't find anything villagery about him because of this, no?



then, newcomb's posts since her posted villa reads











her next post, first time mentioning newcomb



first of all, this is a really lolwtf read, but like i said, she has these ~all of the time as a villa, which is why i approached her slot the way i did (by not trying to read into anything that seems obviously set up to be a false positive), but wut in duh hell

not only does newcomb not renew any of her previous reads, he actually goes against her sheep villa read. not really by way of pushing, but just by prodding him

idk, maybe im too focused on this and she really picked up on something villagery, but it was only until the latter half of the phase where i personally thought newcomb was fine. i think a lot of others mentioned newcomb being neutral, some people said wolfy, but other than her and cobalt, nobody expressed a villa read of newcomb so early. and i guess ladd too, but ladd is the exception hehe. her villa read just seems blase and not really interested in reading him, from the get go she didn't have anything to object or a curiosity regarding him, she doesn't have to, but this treatment is a bit odd to me considering only a few people pointed newcomb out as a villa, but the difference is in their reads they felt like a "based on one post" sorta gut take, not holistically like wisdom is implying

dunno if that makes sense for anyone but im using this as an opportunity to perhaps try to make other cases and read more

I think you're going at this at the wrong angle. My approach to Newcomb was "I'm pretty much never going to solve Newcomb unless he buries a wolf d1". But even though he's hard to read, he has charisma that makes it hard to not town read him. I really vibed when he called out wall posters, and the Newcomb/Ladd post in question was made after the ladd and C0balt posts. At that point I pretty much gave up on trying to solve them further and just shrugged both town and thought that if we're both alive later that's future Wisdom's angle.

Then Newcomb got n1'd and Ladd smells like fur so I don't think the approach was too bad tbh

[Wisdom]

if i struggle really hard, i can see her point. but what i don't get is why then ignore their reads or not follow them. that's the part i don't get. or try to work the disagreements with them if i feel they might be right? but again, the problem is that newcomb specifically wasn't really pushing anything that wisdom expressed disagreement with, he only started gearing up in the 2/3 of the day and he still had just a cobalt light shade that he even said he'd "let it marinate" and a villa read that wisdom already had. so what are the things newcomb did that you disagree'd with but could see him being right?

it's still a twtbawtbawtbaw etc etc read and this is p much how i perceive wisdom's playstyle so i really dont know how to even parse it. just upset if she's a villa that i can't villa read her lol

I think the "he makes me nod my head agreeingly despite not agreeing" came from his vibes on Sheep and C0balt

[grr]

just bringing up some basic info again:

vote history d1/d2

d1:

VoterVoted forPost
GemmaRaskol#7 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053856840&viewfull=1#post2053856840)
theknightsofneeeedyachei#16 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053856849&viewfull=1#post2053856849)
sheepsaysmeeptheknightsofneeee#63 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053856849&viewfull=1#post2053856849)
didistetterC0balt#65 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053856898&viewfull=1#post2053856898)
didistettersheepsaysmeep#68 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053856901&viewfull=1#post2053856901)
didistetterC0balt#80 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053856913&viewfull=1#post2053856913)
WisdomRaskolnikov#95 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053856928&viewfull=1#post2053856928)
sheepsaysmeepWisdom#142 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053856975&viewfull=1#post2053856975)
grrNewcomb#197 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857030&viewfull=1#post2053857030)
EnderwigginJan#211 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857044&viewfull=1#post2053857044)
Enderwiggintheknightsofneeee#228 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857061&viewfull=1#post2053857061)
didistetternebjiamn#248 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857081&viewfull=1#post2053857081)
Synsheepsaysmeep#386 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857219&viewfull=1#post2053857219)
Raskolnikovtheknightsofneeee#435 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857268&viewfull=1#post2053857268)
theknightsofneeeeJan#486 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857319&viewfull=1#post2053857319)
insomniadyachei#620 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857453&viewfull=1#post2053857453)
GemmaVanta#636 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857469&viewfull=1#post2053857469)
Newcombtheknightsofneeee#659 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857492&viewfull=1#post2053857492)
nebjiamnenderwiggin#668 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857501&viewfull=1#post2053857501)
didistetterC0balt#673 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857506&viewfull=1#post2053857506)

laddsheepsaysmeep#686 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857519&viewfull=1#post2053857519)
laddgemma#710 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857543&viewfull=1#post2053857543)

sheepsaysmeepGemma#715 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857548&viewfull=1#post2053857548)
WisdomGemma#716 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857549&viewfull=1#post2053857549)
Vanta_BlackColonelLubriderm#725 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857558&viewfull=1#post2053857558)
Gemmainsomnia#767 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857600&viewfull=1#post2053857600)
dyacheienderwiggin#792 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857625&viewfull=1#post2053857625)
Gemmatheknightsofneeee#822 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857655&viewfull=1#post2053857655)
ColonelLubridermWisdom#824 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857657&viewfull=1#post2053857657)
didistetterladd#828 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857661&viewfull=1#post2053857661)
MapleGemma#858 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857691&viewfull=1#post2053857691)
JanSunbae#868 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857701&viewfull=1#post2053857701)
grrSunbae#870 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857703&viewfull=1#post2053857703)
grrRaskolnikov#906 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857739&viewfull=1#post2053857739)
insomniaGemma#1005 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857838&viewfull=1#post2053857838)
didistetterSyn#1047 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857880&viewfull=1#post2053857880)
NewcombSyn#1053 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857886&viewfull=1#post2053857886)
ColonelLubridermSyn#1066 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857899&viewfull=1#post2053857899)
dyacheiSyn#1079 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857912&viewfull=1#post2053857912)
didistettertheknightsofneeee#1110 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857943&viewfull=1#post2053857943)
ColonelLubridermRaskolnikov#1112 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857945&viewfull=1#post2053857945)
JanRaskolnikov#1115 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857948&viewfull=1#post2053857948)
MontMorencyRaskolnikov#1170 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858003&viewfull=1#post2053858003)
GemmaSyn#1173 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858006&viewfull=1#post2053858006)
dyacheisheepsaysmeep#1174 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858007&viewfull=1#post2053858007)
laddsheepsaysmeep#1177 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858010&viewfull=1#post2053858010)

insomniaSyn#1186 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858019&viewfull=1#post2053858019)
theknightsofneeeeSyn#1193 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858026&viewfull=1#post2053858026)
didistetterSyn#1195 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858028&viewfull=1#post2053858028)
MapleRaskolnikov#1196 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858029&viewfull=1#post2053858029)
ArcticSyn#1204 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858037&viewfull=1#post2053858037)
JanGemma#1206 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858039&viewfull=1#post2053858039)
MapleSyn#1207 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858040&viewfull=1#post2053858040)


d2:


VoterVoted forPost

didistetterMaple#1246 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858082&viewfull=1#post2053858082)
nebjiamnEnderwiggin#1272 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858108&viewfull=1#post2053858108)
theknightsofneeeeJan#1278 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858114&viewfull=1#post2053858114)
WisdomVanta_Black#1364 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858200&viewfull=1#post2053858200)
laddMaple#1378 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858214&viewfull=1#post2053858214)
insomnianebjiamn#1467 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858304&viewfull=1#post2053858304)
Gemmanebjiamn#1471 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858308&viewfull=1#post2053858308)
Wisdomnebjiamn#1473 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858310&viewfull=1#post2053858310)
EnderWigginRaskolnikov#1488 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858325&viewfull=1#post2053858325)
DolbyMaple#1506 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858343&viewfull=1#post2053858343)
grrSunbae#1514 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858351&viewfull=1#post2053858351)
didistetterDolby#1522 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858359&viewfull=1#post2053858359)
ColonelLubridermDolby#1559 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858396&viewfull=1#post2053858396)
WisdomGemma#1581 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858418&viewfull=1#post2053858418)
didistetterWisdom#1586 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858423&viewfull=1#post2053858423)
Raskolnikovtheknightsofneeee#1645 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858482&viewfull=1#post2053858482)
grrUnvote#1653 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858490&viewfull=1#post2053858490)
didistetterMaple#1697 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858534&viewfull=1#post2053858534)
didistetterEnderWiggin#1742 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858579&viewfull=1#post2053858579)
DolbyEnderWiggin#1746 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858583&viewfull=1#post2053858583)
ColonelLubriderm EnderWiggin#1753 https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858590&viewfull=1#post2053858590
GemmaMaple#1817 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858655&viewfull=1#post2053858655)
RaskolnikovMaple#1857 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858695&viewfull=1#post2053858695)
nebjiamnRaskolnikov#1873 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858711&viewfull=1#post2053858711)
MapleDolby#1892 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858730&viewfull=1#post2053858730)
didistetterUnvote#1900 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858738&viewfull=1#post2053858738)
laddnebjiamn#1920 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858758&viewfull=1#post2053858758)
dyacheiladd#1929 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858767&viewfull=1#post2053858767)
laddMontmorency#1932 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858770&viewfull=1#post2053858770)
insomnialadd#1945 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858783&viewfull=1#post2053858783)
insomniaMaple#1964 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858802&viewfull=1#post2053858802)
nebjiamnMaple#1981 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858819&viewfull=1#post2053858819)
DolbyWisdom#1991 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858829&viewfull=1#post2053858829)
Montmorencyladd#2003 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858841&viewfull=1#post2053858841)
dyacheiRaskolnikov#2028 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858866&viewfull=1#post2053858866)
DolbyRaskolnikov#2032 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858870&viewfull=1#post2053858870)
didistetterRaskolnikov#2059 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858897&viewfull=1#post2053858897)
Vanta_Blackdyachei#2063 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858901&viewfull=1#post2053858901)
Raskolnikovdyachei#2075 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858913&viewfull=1#post2053858913)
WisdomRaskolnikov#2095 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858933&viewfull=1#post2053858933)
didistetterUnvote#2098 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858936&viewfull=1#post2053858936)
ColonelLubridermWisdom#2109 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858947&viewfull=1#post2053858947)
didistetterSleep#2115 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858953&viewfull=1#post2053858953)
grrRaskolnikov#2121 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858959&viewfull=1#post2053858959)
nebjiamnRaskolnikov#2127 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858965&viewfull=1#post2053858965)
didistetterRaskolnikov#2133 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858971&viewfull=1#post2053858971)
ColonelLubridermRaskolnikov#2141 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858979&viewfull=1#post2053858979)
ColonelLubridermWisdom#2143 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858981&viewfull=1#post2053858981)
DolbyWisdom#2144 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858982&viewfull=1#post2053858982)
MontMorencyWisdom#2147 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858985&viewfull=1#post2053858985)
theknightsofneeeeladd#2164 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053859002&viewfull=1#post2053859002)
MontMorencyladd#2176 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053859014&viewfull=1#post2053859014)
ArcticRaskolnikov#2215 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053859053&viewfull=1#post2053859053)



d1 wagons:


k so: wagons that felt interesting to me

Wagons as of #1170 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858003&viewfull=1#post2053858003)

Raskolnikov (4) Grr, ColonelLubriderm, Jan, Montmorency
Theknightsofneeee (4) EnderWiggen, Raskolnikov, Gemma, Didistetter
Gemma (4) Sheepsaysmeep, Ladd, Wisdom, Insomnia
Syn (2) Newcomb, Dyachei
Sheepsaysmeep (1) Syn
Jan (1) Theknightsofneeee
EnderWiggen (1) nebjiamn
ColonelLubriderm (1) Vanta Black
No vote: (4) Sunbae, C0balt/Dolby, Arctic, Maple




Wagons as of
#1197 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858030&viewfull=1#post2053858030)

Syn (5) Newcomb, Gemma, Insomnia, Theknightsofneeee, Didistetter
Raskolnikov (4) Grr, ColonelLubriderm, Jan, Maple
Sheepsaysmeep (3) Syn, Dyachei, Ladd
Theknightsofneeee (2) EnderWiggen, Raskolnikov
Gemma (2) Sheepsaysmeep, Wisdom
EnderWiggen (1) nebjiamn
ColonelLubriderm (1) Vanta Black
No vote: (4) Sunbae, C0balt/Dolby, Arctic, Montmorency

not rlly sure if maf were likely to be trying to save syn, but mont's unvote and maple's vote on rask both feel a little weird. i dont like the sheep cw, but i doubt maf would stack there to save an afk

i tr grr and bop, so if any wolves on that second rask wagon it'd be jan or maple.

it kinda feels like after gemma and insom swapped to syn there wasnt any other real attempt to shift wagons, but there's a chance wolves might have been inactive at eod so didnt have manpower to save them?

maple's last sec vote felt giga credgrabby lol but. maybe twtbaw, idk


d1 EOD


Players Votes

Syn 7 (Newcomb, Gemma, insomnia, Theknightsofneeee, Didistetter, Arctic, Maple)
Raskolnikov 2 (grr, ColonelLubriderm)
sheepsaysmeep 3 (Syn, dyachei, Ladd)
Theknightsofneeee 2 (EnderWiggin, Raskolnikov)
Gemma 3 (sheepsaysmeep, Wisdom, Jan)
EnderWiggin 1 (nebjiamn)
ColonelLubriderm 1 (Vanta Black)

whatthistextdo


d2 last votecount before dyachei CCs Raskolnikov (#1997 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858835&viewfull=1#post2053858835))

Players Votes

Maple 4 (Gemma, Raskolnikov, insomnia, nebjiamn)
Ladd 2 (dyachei, Montmorency)
Raskolnikov 1 (EnderWiggin)
EnderWiggin 1 (ColonelLubriderm)
Gemma 1 (Wisdom)
Wisdom 1 (Dolby)
Dolby 1 (Maple)
Jan 1 (Theknightsofneeee)
Montmorency 1 (Ladd)



note: I used the VC in #1997 by Visor (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858835&viewfull=1#post2053858835) as a base but before dyachei actually CCs (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858851&viewfull=1#post2053858851) montmorency adds (#2003) a vote on ladd that I added here.



d2 EOD

Players Votes

Raskolnikov 7 (EnderWiggin, dyachei, Wisdom, grr, nebjiamn, Didistetter, Arctic)
Wisdom 2 (ColonelLubriderm, Dolby)
Ladd 2 (Theknightsofneeee, Montmorency)
dyachei 2 (Vanta Black, Raskolnikov)
Maple 2 (Gemma, insomnia)
Montmorency 1 (Ladd)
Dolby 1 (Maple)

whatthistextdo



10 mins or so for corrections

[grr]

I think you're going at this at the wrong angle. My approach to Newcomb was "I'm pretty much never going to solve Newcomb unless he buries a wolf d1". But even though he's hard to read, he has charisma that makes it hard to not town read him. I really vibed when he called out wall posters, and the Newcomb/Ladd post in question was made after the ladd and C0balt posts. At that point I pretty much gave up on trying to solve them further and just shrugged both town and thought that if we're both alive later that's future Wisdom's angle.

Then Newcomb got n1'd and Ladd smells like fur so I don't think the approach was too bad tbh

Why?

[grr]

btw i am very close to turning into baudib1 becuz this game is lacking a severe dose of baudib1 (or maybe macdougall but i cant do macdougall)

[Gemma]

wut in duh hell

xdd?

[Wisdom]

Why?

Vibes, I think it was Insomnia that said something about Ladd not having strong reads and his pushes has been on town, that I vibed with.

Also, his 180 on me is opportunistic. And while his reads looks good on a glance, he still has gemma as town and maybe the team is just Gemma/Ladd/Maple and Gemma buses them both to go deep since they're both is the consensus PoE.

[grr]

ok lemme collect this rq.

ladds posts on Wisdom (no comments yet)



Villagery post


I dont really get the hate on wisdom tbh, they seem to be posting like normal wisdom afaict

Sunbae post wrt knights/newcomb is 1) villagery and 2) i doubt he shades newcomb after newcomb basically gave him green light to pocket them. Alas sunbae is probabky a villager


Jan seems like his obvious villager self




knights did have a kind of awkward intro; whoever pointed that out, think it was rask or ender maybe, I vibe with it. didn't stick out like a sore thumb but on readback, the shoe fits for the token awkward thread entrance d1 wolf. Not a glass slipper, but at least a pair of crocs.

Talk to me about benneh; apologies if I missed it, i'm catching up and also f5'ing the thread as I do


yea knights honestly had a TON of stuff that pinged me, i just thought sheep push on them was worse in the moment so i didnt pay it too much attnetion

benneh read on wisdom just read like the wolfy kind of salady and wisdom is an easy villager to wolf read (and imo he has not been wolfy at all). I think a big part of it ws just a flashback to his wolf game here tho lol

idk maybe later i'll dig up the posts it reminds me of



Id say thats something wisdom could care about as a villager ya

They make weird reads fairly often as a villager and i didnt really think that post from them was wolfy

Idr have them as lock clear or anything bit thry have seemed mostly the same as all the times they have been villa here

Knights

Yea, mostly small stuff but its a bunch of things. For transparency here is the list!

- not giving a read on sheep push on you

- villareading benneh for 4 posts about cats (with the same strength as bop who was objectively more villagery imho)

- syn read felt a bit weird cause i dont feel bop alignment should have mattered much?

- saying newcomb had made some game related post bit not reading them and instead going to sleep. This 1 is a bit silly but as a villager idt i could have helped myself from reading them lol



Yeah sorry about that I kinda went into that post wolf reading Rask then read his ISO and then started kinda town leaning him and editing stuff mid post on phone was hell.

Before this game he told me he really didn't want to rand wolf, and from that I expected him to avoid thread, which I initially thought he was doing. But then I read his ISO and his vibes was more like "I'm busy F you". My meta on him is that as wolf rask in general tends to force reads through d1, especially when he doesn't have proper time, and he's not this game, hence I concluded that he's probably just town here.

Not a lock, but a vibe.

I wouldn't say he's low energy, just low posting that I initially misread as low energy.

Does that make more sense?


this post was probably written by a villager



this post was probably written by a villager


This seems villagery, not wolfy to me

I think wisdom def has a ton of spicy names in their poe

Fwiw meta wise they tend to open with off the wall reads based on very little ime

I dont follow how thats an easy poe to make?


yea this is basically how i feel about them

thx for the other reads too :y:


artic probably cleared themselves in my eyes with their post last couple of pages tbh

lettuce see where i am at if i kinda yolo it just for fun


just villagers
ladd
newcomb
didistetter
artic
grrr

confident villagers, ordered
bop
jan

rask

this is where reads i strongly care about end

wisdom - if i am wrong somehwere here i'd guess its them
dya - maybeee some worlds where they a wolf but based on toan/meta i'd say they are fairly likely to be villa

leaning villa but losing a bit of confidence/some worlds where they are a wolf with manti if manti w
insomnia
sunbae


the rest, ordered in 2 tiers. no order within tiers

ender - feels villagery but surface level
sheep - bit unsure but i think i am cool with havig them here for now

benneh - feel like i did him a bit dirty cause havent made much of an effort on my part to re read his iso and find him but thats mostly cause i wanst gonna lunch him today anyway
knights - confusing play
gemma - have trouble believing his posts show genuine solving
maple - no read but interesting web of connections. prob a strong wolf pr if wolf
cobalt - see ya tomorrow; maybe



not evne gonna list monte/vanta


has knights tried to be villagery tho? Some spooky gemma votes ngl


@manti i'd be curious of a benneh iso



i think bop is a villager cause of what he did not say but clearly was thinking vs what he actually said. Like i think in his mind he was linking me and wisdom even if he never said so explicitely but i could FEEL that he was clearing thinking about game/associations/worlds, whateve ryou wanna call it in a critical way

no one asked but i saw grr post their bop villa read so i figured i may chime in cause i feel pretty good about it now


I've got reasons to believe Sheep was killed by town btw





He called Syn lock town based on him agreeing with Syn on Bop. In his second post.

Part of why that makes Rask town is that Rask and Syn knows each other well and Rask was (previous to this at least) proud of how well he could read Syn. In our last Org game together, Rask caught w!Syn quite fast if not instantly. It makes sense for him to be cocky and jump the gun.

But even aside from their relationship and history, I've never seen a wolf call his mate lock town on post 2 based on ~nothing.

i have seen it


how would you expect syn/rask w/w to play out?



Vote: Vanta Black

Everyone else has done something towny at this point.

I still think Gemma could be a wolf but I'll give her some benefit of the doubt for the timing when she voted Syn (knowing that Syn only had 1 or 2 votes and would become more of a contesting wagon).

I think Syn was really busable at that point tho.

didnt you villa read vanta yesterday?

you are allowed to change your mind obviously, but i feel they have done something villagery for you



thoughts on eod if u read it? general poe still the same or?


SoD of d1 to be clear


and to not waste a post - rask still seems villagery to me (tho i disagree with wisdom that rask/syn stuff is strictly v/w)




sorry

if syn flips there (which had decent odds) then jan is spewed wolf. and jan flipping wolf would in turn spew rask villa is what i meant

I honestly dont really get why u feel so strongly about it

If all i read was eod, jan would look bad iyam

He defended syn and is clearly not spewed wolf so id say it worked


I just read eod again and what i find strange is how much jan suddenly cares once syn becomes a wagon, like he was pretty chill until the syn wagon and then he goes "ham"



Wisdom why dolby so low? Why gemma?



if wisdom's a wolf ladd is probly also one :curtain:

Yea i def look bad if wisdom is a wolf eheh


I think their d2 is worse than their d1 (their bottom 3 being dolby/vanta/monty(?)) seems uh not great. I still like their d1 but idk how much it carries over

Bop, i did go back to look at the post you said to me wrt sheep but i just tend to not really care about pr reads



I also think that this post is super agendad if Rask is v looking back at it

I’m Cobalt and town

I feel that Ender is wolfing rn and I think the reasoning for the townread here is really weak

But more importantly I think this may be being used as a cheap way to say “hey im sussing Syn, but blame Rask if this is wrong”. Their reasons for townreading Rask are also pretty nebulous “Rask is less hype than I expect” should not be a reason to townread him when he doesn’t want to wolf here(I also don’t think that Rask seemed solve at this point in the thread). Its using Rask to just avoid Syn

I suppose it’s a good look that Wisdom entered d2 calling Rask wrong town. At the same time the reasoning just seems off to me. Rask outside calling Syn lock town super early didn’t do much with him besides when he was specifically addressed on the read. And Syn ended up placing Rask at the bottom of his reads list

Ill play devils advocate - wisdom could have just said syn is a villager cause of rask read without asking rask to kinda revaluate the read like they did here


Idk i am kinda scared to defend people i am not like at least 95% sure are villas because i dont have a clear wolrdview right now beyond "these guis are villagers, the wolves are in the rest"

But i kinda like ender posting, i feel he is being more direct in his pushes tham his wolf game where it felt like he was giving himself outs; he had an interrsting worldview d1; he had some funny eod posts and has felt in flow; reaction to dolby push seemed villagery. On the negative side his eod is not great but i am not sure its really wolfy?


I am almost inclined to say wisdom is a more likely wolf to me than ender

Guess we'll see what ender has to say, but thats my 2 cents atm

Sorry about the tone in the last post.

Stett you're right that I haven't focused you that much but I still think there's a huge difference from that game.

I'm going away for a family gathering for the rest of the day and might not be able to be here except for popins, and since I'm a focus slot right now I'm just going to claim.

I am Strength, a 2-shot firefighter.

That means there are likely an arsonist, wolf or 3p, hence why I think Sheep wasn't killed by wolf kp.

I have played games with firefighters without arsonists tho so who knows :wowee:



.

I've got reasons to believe Sheep was killed by town btw


that was the soft, if people care


man it's so hard to lunch ladd, lol

even though objectively i feel like im correct to make that call, there's something that just doesn't allow me to vote him :wall:

40



thats cause deep down you know i am a villager



this is post 37


They are clearly related cause wisdom referenced having mechanical reasons for the sheep thing so if they are a wolf it means they came into the day setting up a claim (which is possible)

I have no other thoughts on the claim since we know nothing about the setup other than there is a vig and some neighbour stuff


V
Ladd
Insomnia
Bop
Artic
Grr
Dya
Gemma
Stett

The rest tier 1
Jan -not wolf with rask
Rask -not wolf with jan
Wisdom -claimed fightfighter...will hopefully clear up a bit later itg
Ender - not with dolby
Dolby-not with ender
Vanta-posts look good but just v low volume
Knights-looks good from eod but i just cant bring myself to have him higher onky based in posting, sorry


The rest tier 2
Benneh
Sunbae
Maple
Monty


I am kinda between 2 worlds right now:

1) i am off on more than 1 of my ender/wisdom/jan/rask v reads, sunbae/benneh are villas, maybe maple is too, maybe not. We are probably ok

2) sunbae/maple are w/w, benneh may be a wolf (or not, i honestly dont have a great read on his posts so far), knights i really doubt is a wolf with sunbae so would be a villa here, jan/rask woild be v as well so options are like super limited


I just think maple is the least villagey person, i didnt really like their iso nor pushes and the reversed stuff seems straight out of manti wolf playbook.havent played with manti in like years tho




With that being said, i will never votr anyone in my v tier but am open to voting anyone below at eod depending on how the rest of the day evolves

Gonna save the rest of my posts for eod cause i dont wanna be limited

Should be 40


There is something about firefighter claims that spooks me lmao

Like they always seem fake to me even when they are real

@artic i dont get what u are saying about me/jan? I villa read him d1, thought his eod was bad and pushed him d2 (i def voiced concerns) and then re settled to him being okaysh


Anyway there is max 1 wolf in rask/jan/wisdom




ladd do you think villy would ever get both arso and vig?

espec with no proof of maf extra kp *yet* that feels kinda op


prolly no, in fact i am considering that wisdom could be a wolf




i kinda wanna lunch benneh ngl

Wisdom/jan arent w/w cause there is no way the wolves plan was for them to both claim pr b2b IYAM

wisdom/ender i guess it s possible tho i still villaread ender


Btw benneh, my main push d2 was maple. I was voting them all day until they claimed confirmable role, i thinknits really easy to disalign them and me (even from d1 posts)


For the rest i dont agree with clearing wisdom from rask flip cause i dont think visor would put a firefighter just to ckunter a poor neutral. Like u are really putting a neutral arso itg which is super hard to play and also giving thr village a counter? Iyam no


I think rask was prolly like an sk who was telling the truth abiut their shots but got unlucky


vote:wisdom

I will be back tomorrow


sap, here is where I am at. Only time I will be able to post from a pc today probably

v
ladd
insomnia
grr
jan
dya
gemma
dolby


I am pretty confident the above has 0 wolves, dont really care to go into detail on any of them rigth now cause I am short of time but dont touch them until lylo.

the rest
maple
wisdom
ender
vanta
monty
knights
benneh
sunbae



my FEELING without reading back is that vanta/monti are probably villagers but it's also hard to fully clear them with confidence

Of the 2 i think monti has the more tangible reasons to actually be cleared, it feels like he is in his own little word in a villagery way when he is around

I also think vanta is probably spewed v by wisdom w



Sunbae has been saying all the right things today, in the sense that i have agreed with 99% of the things he said. My only problem is that I just cant find any reason why it cannot be just a wolvf spinning his wheels? Like I read dolby solving and think he is an obvious villager, I sadly just dont get the same feeling from sunbae posts but if someone pointed a gun to my head I would say they are a villager



Knights's posting just isnt cutting it with me, sorry. I think his push on Jan should have been revaluated a while ago and I really dont find anything he has said this game villagery, the issues I had with him d1 are all still there. In the end if he is a wolf who decided to buss at eod1 his posting would look pretty much exactly like this



Gonna talk about benneh cause it ties into my knights read well enuf since knights/benneh is a thing I have been strongly considering in my mind from like early d1. I have been unfair to benneh this game and for that sorry, I know i have been lazy as fuck in actually reading you. I think their bottom 4 being 3 pr claims+1 me isnt a great sign and i think the way he is pushing maple today is a bit sueperficial but more importantly I just cant really find villa benneh after 3 days which is pretty unsual.



And then we have the 3 PR claims:

ender - i want him to claim for clarity cause he has been softing giving stett somethign and that seems to kinda counterclaim maple but he has been vague about it. Idk I just feel there is so much pr claims+he is in the POE where I dont see any reasong for him not to claim. Gth think villa but want claim. Not w/w with benneh


maple - i'll be real, the only thing I dislike with manti wrt the claim is that they said they were self confirmable yesterday which isnt exactly true even if someone got the card since apparentely manti does nto know what the cards do? I think arctic was an ok target given how many PR claims were around

wisdom - i am sad but i think they are just a wolf. Their firefighter claim mechanically just doesnt make sense to me, I have seen them claim early as a wolf before, their d2 was pretty bad and i thought their vanta push on d2 in particular felt super lazy from them. I just think from d2 on they have missed the SPARK. I also dont like they they have been leaning on their softs as a way to make their claim more villagery- the truth is that most villagers dont actually care to soft. If it helps bop also wanted them dead before dying



Ladd what do you think of the following

Sunbae saying today that Knights is close to lock v for them for eod1 activity

yea i have been considering sunbae/knights too (tho i remember knights was v hard on sunbae d1 but maybe not outside of distancing range); i think benneh/knights is a smoother fit but shrug.pg

i think its v easy to read knights by reading eod1 since he had a good buss, should he be a wolf. But with wagons essentially being w/v (rask counts as v) I am just left wondering wtf wolves were doing

Jan was giving them an out to save syn but no one defended syn, except jan himself (and super softly ender); so imo either wolves were not around or were bussing

I could be wrong on knights obviously, but to me right now it just feels like he bussed and there is no more much space to hide


Maple kinda just not doing much so far today? Perhaps this is uncharitable to say but beyond Maple making two posts which are functionally just lists of players he likes the most Maple has done imo is try to get one more day via Jan the jailkeeper. Thats something that’s been increasing my confidence the slot is a hit today

i dont really have manti as villagery, so I am not sure I have an answer to that

I think manti posting today is in either of their ranges


If Maple and or Wisdom flips w how does that impact your read on Benneh?


i had benneh/wisdom as slightly not w/w d1 but i dont think it's a read i'd be willing to uphold on d3

maple flip has no effect on benneh alignment afair


If you had sole control of the elim who would it be? I assume wisdom? I want Maple to die today but wouldn’t be super mad if Wisdom went. Also if you could talk a bit about Gemma to I appreciate it bc I think Gemma v but don’t have that high

I would kill wisdom


Gemma had the single most important vote at eod1 (made syn an actual possibility) and their posting today and since shows an underlying level of paranoia that is pretty rare for a wolf to fake. Like I dont think this is a post made by a wolf:


ladd do i understand correctly it's basically just the mech? did you have any other thoughts besides mech wrt wisdom since your opinion changed? um and about the mech did you, think about dyachei's roleclaim that they have a vig shot that gets blocked when target is visited (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858902&viewfull=1#post2053858902) by another person does that in some way mesh with a village/wolf firefighter? (my gth take is a village power role thats only function is to block another village powerrole is kinda... uh, unlikely ig? Is that correct, also insomnia just in case u have thots, but if she is a wolf im not quite sure how the wolves are to work out how they would have to use it either)

long before the claim you kinda had a "if im wrong on someone it'd be wisdom" line um, do you remember why you were conflicted?

[grr]

Vibes, I think it was Insomnia that said something about Ladd not having strong reads and his pushes has been on town, that I vibed with.

Also, his 180 on me is opportunistic. And while his reads looks good on a glance, he still has gemma as town and maybe the team is just Gemma/Ladd/Maple and Gemma buses them both to go deep since they're both is the consensus PoE.

meh this is kind of. such a... default line sorry? the vibes thing is fine and pushing town is fine. lol. i mean sure if ladd/maple it makes somewhat sense he'd do that here, what u think of benneh's posts on you/maple wagons then?

[EnderWiggin]

I was sad that Sunbae didn't get back to me.

Today wasn't a good day but gonna give it a fair shake.

[EnderWiggin]

Wisdom
EnderWiggin

what were your reasons to think the sheep kill was performed by town during early day 2?

I... What?

I think I shrugged and was annoyed and went along with the fact that people were saying that but I don't remember saying I specifically thought this???

Time to ISO myself and see if I can see what you mean.

[EnderWiggin]

Annoyed because if Sheep was killed by town it meant town killed my strongest townread lmao. (Sorry Dya but Sheep was obvious town imo =P)

[Dolby]

So on one hand I kinda hate Wisdom's positioning on Ladd today bc it feels like they are coming to what is the right position for the thread state. For example, ladd coming in sussing Wisdom isn't something that happened suddenly though I beleive it is motivated. Ladd did come in on day two questioning Wisdom's read on Vanta, and had other posts where he was not happy with what Wisdom was saying on day two. I think it's a bad line of logic and like, not reflective of what happened, and is largely a adjustment to the thread state rather than a honest read.


Ah that's how I phrased it, makes sense!

Yeah right now I'd say...

Top town
Colonel
Jan
Rask

Leaning town
Ender
Ladd

Probably also town
Arctic
Dya
Insomnia
Stett

Null
Benneh
Knights
Maple
Monte (I still can't recall 1 post from him and always forgets he exists)
Sunbae

Wolf lean
Dolby
Gemma
Vanta
like Ladd was a clear townread yesterday, and I just don't understand why he's dropping today from Maple beyond attachment to Gemma, and I've talked a bit about Wisdom's Gemma read in a post (not extensively), but idk, I would expect to see more on Gemma given that Gemma is a pretty consensus low level townread for the thread. Not neccessarily advocating to oust Gemma, but to get Gemma not as townread.

I also just don't like the shift to "ladd/maple w/w unlikely because they are not with Gemma" to just slamming Gemma in with them in the post above this. If Wisdom had a strong articulated Gemma read I could be fine with this, but they don't, they haven't really written a much to justify Gemma's position day two and later.

On the other hand I do want Wisdom gone third out of Wisdom/ladd/Maple, primarily because Wisdom has this post here


I forgot about both Mont existing when I wrote that. Ben too, really, but it wouldn't have changed my point.

While it's not worth much, I thought that Benneh in a few bursts of posts (214 to 376 in his iso) varied shitposting with solving in a way that I associate with town PoV, but it's not worth much and doubt it's towny for him specifically.

Maple is mostly a bs read. I liked his talk about getting reversed but when Jan started talking about it I kinda changed my mind, doing mech stuff to mislead is exactly what I expect from w!Maple.

Sunbae just sounds pure.
I think this is bad for Maple at this point in the thread to say. On the other hand I can't give this to much credit because Wisdom makes a reads list without Maple in their susses, instead having them smack dab in five or six nulls, with me, Vanta, and Gemma as their pushes

Wisdom takes a break from the thread and comes back with this


Saw the claim summary above. Maple's posting is pinging me. What's the current vote count?

but this is like immediately after Maple jumps from two votes to four and is basically the only wagon. If this post comes 100 posts earlier, I could give it credit, but I don't think Wisdom would have made this post 100 posts earlier (bc they are wolfing and Maple wasn't as in danger)

Despite this, thisis still enough to, if Maple flips w, to want to go for ladd first wisdom second, but I'm not gonna cry in any order bc I have no strong take on who is a power role in the trio

Wisdom I really need you to justify your Gemma sus tbh. Like, you've been using Gemma to justify a fair bit today wrt Ladd and Maple and it makes me feel like you don't actually want to be on Maple. I also like, have a townread on gemma and think your d2 bottom three of me/gemma/vanta is pure, and what you entered with with me/gemma/vanta/monty is pure

that's another thing, I don't like how Wisdom's pressure on Maple largely comes in when Maple is sussed (most visible on day two) and doesn't really factor in when Maple is in a safe position. I think I said that Wisdom's d3 wrt Maple could be displaying towny disconnection from the thread, but when it's all in service of elevating a probable wolf I just can't give credit to that

[Dolby]

Annoyed because if Sheep was killed by town it meant town killed my strongest townread lmao. (Sorry Dya but Sheep was obvious town imo =P)

ender, you're gonna have your chance to be a hero and put Sunbae in the dirt day six

[EnderWiggin]

So I got to Insomnia's claim that Ladd should have a better sus pool and went to check Saints and Sinners (Last v/v game with Ladd for me) to prove it wrong. (Which was a ~eh because he did have a solid push against Syn on D1, and was one of the reasons that wagon got going although Rask was a big pilot too.)

And I might have the dumbest read ever but...

Benneh in Saints and Sinners was town. They also saw someone sus an early intro post of mine (Zack did it in that game.)

They then did the "Omg I felt the same thing" and cheerleadered sus on me. To which I ended up sussing them all the way to F4. (Lol Hally owned us.)

I'm just flirting with the idea that this is literally just Benneh's towngame and somehow I just rub him wrong early and then he rubs me wrong in response.

Ngl I was so excited to find this lmao

[EnderWiggin]

ender, you're gonna have your chance to be a hero and put Sunbae in the dirt day six

Hot.

[Dolby]

I still need to reread Benneh, Sunbae, and Gemma. Possibly Ladd as well again bc I have given more time to reevalutions in Maple/Wisdom than him and I will probably need to decide which of the two I want tomorrow, but that is unfortunately a problem for tomorrow

[Dolby]

glad to be in the thread with you again Ender. I am at work but anything you want me to look at? I'm not ISOing again today except for maybe ladd or someone with around 100 posts or less (knights, monty, vanta)

[ladd]

ok lemme collect this rq.

ladds posts on Wisdom (no comments yet)



























































ladd do i understand correctly it's basically just the mech? did you have any other thoughts besides mech wrt wisdom since your opinion changed? um and about the mech did you, think about dyachei's roleclaim that they have a vig shot that gets blocked when target is visited (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858902&viewfull=1#post2053858902) by another person does that in some way mesh with a village/wolf firefighter? (my gth take is a village power role thats only function is to block another village powerrole is kinda... uh, unlikely ig? Is that correct, also insomnia just in case u have thots, but if she is a wolf im not quite sure how the wolves are to work out how they would have to use it either)

long before the claim you kinda had a "if im wrong on someone it'd be wisdom" line um, do you remember why you were conflicted?

I didnt like their d2 posts i said so on d2 already but both if their push on vanta and gemma felt bad (and still do)

And no i dont see much sense in that use for firefighter



Dolby why are u just assuming me/maple/wisdom should all be killed b2b2b? Thats incredibly lazy iyam

I honestly am not convinced at all maple/wisdom are w/w (tho i have no real reason for this, just kind of a feeling) and i am a villager

[EnderWiggin]

glad to be in the thread with you again Ender. I am at work but anything you want me to look at? I'm not ISOing again today except for maybe ladd or someone with around 100 posts or less (knights, monty, vanta)

Only thing I can think of is sanity check my excitement about my Saints and Sinners Benneh similarity to how he treated me this game.

I'm gonna finish catching up then try to re-eval Ladd.

[ladd]

I honestly would yolo it and kill in knights/sunbae/benneh next (tho it depends from wisdom(or maple) flip)

[Dolby]

I think they are just wolves and am annoyed at manti

Also I think that Wisdom is kinda treating Maple like a wolf partner during d2 in that they vocalize a sus but don't act on it or even reflect on it until Maple is in danger

Have had a lot on how the differing treatment on Maple from certain slots I think is gamestate motivated and not genuinely evalution

[Dolby]

Like, if I look at Maple I see a wolf. Maple is my strongest wolf and the more I look at how day is going Maple does not look like a towny who knew they were gonna be the d3 yeet from SOD3.They look to me like a mafia who is just present and hoping it somehow gets off them and onto someone else

I feel like Wisdom's Maple read has been opportunistic. I do not like what Wisdom has been doing with their Gemma read since SOD2. I think there could be towny disincongruence with Wisdom not sussing Maple until I mentioned something, but at the same time it feels like Maple is only mentioned when Maple is already in danger, and if Maple isn't in danger, the sus went away. I also think by posting Wisdom is likely a wolf, and the Gemma/Vanta/Dolby reads they had on D2 were 0/3. I'd expect more on Gemma if they are tunneling Gemma, which their reads, especially today, seem to be suggesting, but their actions do not. They haven't been strongly going for Gemma past d2 beyond votes, no efforts of persuasion. It's just a read that's there.

[Dolby]

Ladd if Maple/Wisdom are v/v who are the wolves iye? I'm assuming some combo of Benneh/Sunbae/Ender but once you get out of there should be a fourth who I am at least somewhat actively townreading atm

[grr]

ok so i crossreferenced my progression ladd -> wisdom and wisdom -> ladd and pull the quotes from when they both changed from v to w reads:


Ah that's how I phrased it, makes sense!

Yeah right now I'd say...

Top town
Colonel
Jan
Rask

Leaning town
Ender
Ladd

Probably also town
Arctic
Dya
Insomnia
Stett

Null
Benneh
Knights
Maple
Monte (I still can't recall 1 post from him and always forgets he exists)
Sunbae

Wolf lean
Dolby
Gemma
Vanta



I honestly dont really get why u feel so strongly about it

If all i read was eod, jan would look bad iyam

He defended syn and is clearly not spewed wolf so id say it worked


I just read eod again and what i find strange is how much jan suddenly cares once syn becomes a wagon, like he was pretty chill until the syn wagon and then he goes "ham"



Wisdom why dolby so low? Why gemma?

Dolby is mostly a PoE slot right now.

Gemma isn't doing much with her time in thread and it doesn't seem like she have more thoughts than she's sharing if you know what I mean with that.

But also a bit of vanity because I wanna see if I hit a wolf d1 and that'd probably clear me


V
Ladd
Insomnia
Bop
Artic
Grr
Dya
Gemma
Stett

The rest tier 1
Jan -not wolf with rask
Rask -not wolf with jan
Wisdom -claimed fightfighter...will hopefully clear up a bit later itg
Ender - not with dolby
Dolby-not with ender
Vanta-posts look good but just v low volume
Knights-looks good from eod but i just cant bring myself to have him higher onky based in posting, sorry


The rest tier 2
Benneh
Sunbae
Maple
Monty


I am kinda between 2 worlds right now:

1) i am off on more than 1 of my ender/wisdom/jan/rask v reads, sunbae/benneh are villas, maybe maple is too, maybe not. We are probably ok

2) sunbae/maple are w/w, benneh may be a wolf (or not, i honestly dont have a great read on his posts so far), knights i really doubt is a wolf with sunbae so would be a villa here, jan/rask woild be v as well so options are like super limited


I just think maple is the least villagey person, i didnt really like their iso nor pushes and the reversed stuff seems straight out of manti wolf playbook.havent played with manti in like years tho




With that being said, i will never votr anyone in my v tier but am open to voting anyone below at eod depending on how the rest of the day evolves

Gonna save the rest of my posts for eod cause i dont wanna be limited

Should be 40

so till here both kinda v-reading each other


There is something about firefighter claims that spooks me lmao

Like they always seem fake to me even when they are real

@artic i dont get what u are saying about me/jan? I villa read him d1, thought his eod was bad and pushed him d2 (i def voiced concerns) and then re settled to him being okaysh


Anyway there is max 1 wolf in rask/jan/wisdom


prolly no, in fact i am considering that wisdom could be a wolf




i kinda wanna lunch benneh ngl


Wisdom/jan arent w/w cause there is no way the wolves plan was for them to both claim pr b2b IYAM

wisdom/ender i guess it s possible tho i still villaread ender


Btw benneh, my main push d2 was maple. I was voting them all day until they claimed confirmable role, i thinknits really easy to disalign them and me (even from d1 posts)


For the rest i dont agree with clearing wisdom from rask flip cause i dont think visor would put a firefighter just to ckunter a poor neutral. Like u are really putting a neutral arso itg which is super hard to play and also giving thr village a counter? Iyam no


I think rask was prolly like an sk who was telling the truth abiut their shots but got unlucky


I'm starting to suspect ladd is a wolf who's pocketing/whiteknighting me tbh, but it's hard to explain why

But when I think that there's 3-4 wolves in 14 players (right?) and that he's alive it's easy to think he's a wolf.

Like, the easiest world is it's like Gemma/Vanta/Dolby/Monte but it's never that easy. Ladd's easy to tinfoil, and then we have Knights and Benneh who I've got no clue on, and Ender who I can't remember a single d2 post from but I read he claimed pr.

Dya's town. Grr's probably town. I still want to think Jan is my D1 Town Clear and won't re-evaluate unless alive end game, if he's town pr he'll just die eventually anyway. And Maple who I don't know what his deal is.

My goal for today is finding 8 villagers, I have 3 right now +2 potential pr's. I'm soon done with work so can put some more work in when I get home.


vote:wisdom

I will be back tomorrow



so like. Wisdom ur read on ladd develops like, super reactive, and not in a good way imo? like u arent prodding him or anything or ask him why do u sus me now you just kinda, state you might be pocketed at some point (which is also a bit lagging behind because he's clearly started sussing you already).

[grr]

Vote: Wisdom

[EnderWiggin]

Ftr I think Wisdom is ~also good.

Mostly cause that last night interaction with me felt very much like wasting my time with questions when I am obviously the one who most has very limited chance to do anything in thread. And the more time I'm not doing any solving the easier it is to push me later.

[ladd]

Ladd if Maple/Wisdom are v/v who are the wolves iye? I'm assuming some combo of Benneh/Sunbae/Ender but once you get out of there should be a fourth who I am at least somewhat actively townreading atm

I dont think they are v/v but honestly even in that world my read would not change much? Like atm i am pretty sure about my v reads so poe would stay the same

Ill work from wolf flips to try to clear people in the poe but i wouldnt even know to begin to revaluate on my v reads cause again they all seem relatively easy

[EnderWiggin]

Also good as in Also a good wagon.

Esp after their drop of me when it was convenient.

[Dolby]

This game

Jan its nothing mega deep, just these posts in particular pinged me

emphasizing the vote on you was a joke twice/clarifying his intent just pings me a bit

the post about insom pings me for the 'kinda sus early' 'but p6 insom hits diff' when early on was mostly intro posts and it feels like somewhat of an exaggeration for something i viewed as either null or just irrelevant from insom (but ender being around to clarify which posts early he sus'd would help tbf)

the post about newcomb is just super awkward. its mostly fluff about his willingness to vote newcomb as a wolf in a game from a year ago segueing into 'why are you reading him?' with clarification that he doesnt even have a read on newcomb

i cant really explain the read beyond that. i admit its kinda meh but i don't really have much else to work on rn. his other posts in the flurry were ~fine i agree but for my money he's the wolfiest of the interesting/non-cop-out yeets on the table we're likely heading to (sheep/knights) that i think have more villa equity

I actually think that this is less focused on and pushed than the saints game but tbh it's fine bc he was saying he wasn't at his best and he had tired energy when he was saying stuffin the thread at eod1.

I think it's fine though, and I think the reasoning connected to insomnia specifically matches really well with the reasoning in the Saints game. And on newcomb it also just kinda matches that he doesn't like what he is perceiving as a pretty soft read.


Feels like it aligns with a kind of wave of anti-Arctic sentiment that arrived around that time that makes it feel opportunistic and whereas hally has fleshed out a read/reason to find Arctic wolfy I just don’t get that sense with ender that it’s that deep and more just idk, wish washy in a way

plus the earlier thing about logic


"
ender - i don't really like ender's posts this day phase but i kinda think of my bottom 4 reads he's most likely to flip v of them based off whatever arbitrary metric is going off in my brain right now while i write this stuff. i'd lunch him still but i'd rather go logic first."

lol yeah you just ping Benneh, willing to stop here

also the more I think about it the more having wisdom as more towny than ladd is kinda a crime

[grr]

I believe this is the current vc, don't count on it am exhausted.

Maple 5 nebjiamn, insomnia, Enderwiggin, Wisdom, Dolby
Wisdom 3 Gemma, ladd, grr
ladd 2 Montmorency, dyachei
Jan 1 theknightsofneeee

[grr]

Ftr I think Wisdom is ~also good.

Mostly cause that last night interaction with me felt very much like wasting my time with questions when I am obviously the one who most has very limited chance to do anything in thread. And the more time I'm not doing any solving the easier it is to push me later.

yeah, first of all ladds and wisdoms interactions look unlikely v/v, vibes etc idk lol. Wisdom looks worse imo, entire progression from wisdom -> ladd looks worse than the other way round, however not excluding w/w. And several people said before ladd/wisdom likely have fur (didistetter, dont remember who else but they were not the only one).

[grr]

btw before that vc i just posted i was voting u, did u have any thots on people voting you? or the vc in general.


i think prize for most votechanges today so far goes to dolby hehe :P

[grr]

btw before that vc i just posted i was voting u, did u have any thots on people voting you? or the vc in general.


i think prize for most votechanges today so far goes to dolby hehe :P

ladd soz

[Dolby]

Also good as in Also a good wagon.

Esp after their drop of me when it was convenient.

Tpbh Ender I do not think this post is the worst thing ever with regard to their read on you because they are shading basically everyone who wasn't in their strongest townreads


I'm starting to suspect ladd is a wolf who's pocketing/whiteknighting me tbh, but it's hard to explain why

But when I think that there's 3-4 wolves in 14 players (right?) and that he's alive it's easy to think he's a wolf.

Like, the easiest world is it's like Gemma/Vanta/Dolby/Monte but it's never that easy. Ladd's easy to tinfoil, and then we have Knights and Benneh who I've got no clue on, and Ender who I can't remember a single d2 post from but I read he claimed pr.

Dya's town. Grr's probably town. I still want to think Jan is my D1 Town Clear and won't re-evaluate unless alive end game, if he's town pr he'll just die eventually anyway. And Maple who I don't know what his deal is.

My goal for today is finding 8 villagers, I have 3 right now +2 potential pr's. I'm soon done with work so can put some more work in when I get home.
but they did have a TR on you before they claimed PR and idk I just feel like it's looking to find a reason to get rid of a TR constraining them anyway

[ladd]

btw before that vc i just posted i was voting u, did u have any thots on people voting you? or the vc in general.


i think prize for most votechanges today so far goes to dolby hehe :P


I am gonna be real, i had no idea was the vc was. I assume wagons will be wisdom/maple at eod anyway


i think this game i was voted by you/insomnia/stett/(maybe gemma?) right? idk if i am missing anyone else

my thought is that u are all villas, idk if you wanted anything more deep but dont have anything

[Dolby]

hmmm maybe Wisdom is worse than Maple tbh

Anyone want to sell me on that?

[ladd]

I am kinda living in a knights wolf world right now, that is probably my hottest take


I get that people hate making pure setup/mechanical reads WRT clearing people.

but I think the logic of 'why would wolf!wisdom claim firefighter if he would reasonably expect to get counterclaimed? and there is no way he could reasonably know there was an actual neutral in the game prior to raskol flip' logic is pretty sound and IMO clearing for wisdom.

I'll see if I can supplement it with a reads based reason to villa read wisdom as well but they seem like the obvious mislynch that people are pushing unnecessarily atm.

I hated this post today and if you eliminate the syn vote at eod1 their posting just isnt good imo?

their jan push is obsolete by now, their d1 was wolfy (imo, but newcomb agreed!)

I see people saying "knight would tried harder as a wolf" but that read has an accurcay way below rand ime

EoD1 sure looks good from knights but they were already a wagon and widely suspected, I dont think it's really such a crazy buss for them to make. If they wolfside at EoD they just risk both of them going down

[EnderWiggin]

Sorry, can't do it tonight.

2am and I'm dying.

Will try to be back for eod.

Re: Ladd

I haven't finished re-reading him or checking all the things. I can somewhat see what Monty meant by Syn = Kage from the other game, but the question I have is why does Ladd feel defanged in comparison. Like idk Ladd here is doing solving via townreads which... to be fair isn't what I expect out of him either alignment but idk how that's necessarily wolfy.

Idk how else to say this, but Ladd just looks ~good when I read their posts to me. Shrug.

I will try to give it a fair shake of the stick overnight after EOD. I know I said this already but tonight was just no.

[EnderWiggin]

I am kinda living in a knights wolf world right now, that is probably my hottest take



I hated this post today and if you eliminate the syn vote at eod1 their posting just isnt good imo?

their jan push is obsolete by now, their d1 was wolfy (imo, but newcomb agreed!)

I see people saying "knight would tried harder as a wolf" but that read has an accurcay way below rand ime

EoD1 sure looks good from knights but they were already a wagon and widely suspected, I dont think it's really such a crazy buss for them to make. If they wolfside at EoD they just risk both of them going down

See, part of me wants to buy this because it means my D1 was actually good lmao.

[EnderWiggin]

Vote: Wisdom

#Wagonomics

[ladd]

hmmm maybe Wisdom is worse than Maple tbh

Anyone want to sell me on that?

They just came out of a game where they fakeclaimed d2 as a wolf on MU, their firefighter claim i think is pretty weak for reasons already explained

Their pushes have all been extremely surface level and especially their pushes on vanta/gemma i think lack the care/paranoia wisdom would have there as a villager. Bonus: i think gemma is a villager and the only possible wolf pushing them d1 is wisdom

bop died calling for their head

[Maple]

Good morning chat, i see the last 80 posts have been more talking in circles

And let me tell you, I've been thinking in circles, too.

My reads are approximately 1% different than they were before.

[grr]

I am gonna be real, i had no idea was the vc was. I assume wagons will be wisdom/maple at eod anyway


i think this game i was voted by you/insomnia/stett/(maybe gemma?) right? idk if i am missing anyone else

um, stetter, dyachei, insomnia, montmorency, theknightsofneeee, me i think. (dont ask why or context i just ctrl+f'ed it in the VH lol).



my thought is that u are all villas, idk if you wanted anything more deep but dont have anything

no it's fine ty was just wondering if u had a clue of what's going on rn.

[Dolby]

I'm going to be making an active effort to conserve posts for the rest of the day. I don't like the knights drop off d3 specifically, but I recall distinctly liking Knights posts on day one and I would probably put effort into defending him day four since he isn't in danger today. I think that post is whack tbph and his posting hasn't been great after day one but I also just think he's a villager from the events of day one specifically.

[ladd]

Sorry, can't do it tonight.

2am and I'm dying.

Will try to be back for eod.

Re: Ladd

I haven't finished re-reading him or checking all the things. I can somewhat see what Monty meant by Syn = Kage from the other game, but the question I have is why does Ladd feel defanged in comparison. Like idk Ladd here is doing solving via townreads which... to be fair isn't what I expect out of him either alignment but idk how that's necessarily wolfy.

Idk how else to say this, but Ladd just looks ~good when I read their posts to me. Shrug.

I will try to give it a fair shake of the stick overnight after EOD. I know I said this already but tonight was just no.

I think people expect me to do x but I am doing y and they cant compute that y is not wolfy, just different

which i mean fair enuf, but I dont always feel like doing X


does your claim contradict maple claim in any way btw? they claim inventor which seems similarish to your role

[Dolby]

Ladd part of my problem with how I've been reading you is despite having your vote plopped on Maple for a lot of d2, it doesn't feel like that vote really existed outside that vote, even in casual talk with other people in the thread. Idk, any reason you weren't trying to move votes to Maple

[EnderWiggin]

I think people expect me to do x but I am doing y and they cant compute that y is not wolfy, just different

which i mean fair enuf, but I dont always feel like doing X


does your claim contradict maple claim in any way btw? they claim inventor which seems similarish to your role

No.

Maybe?

I'd say my claim is more likely to contradict Inverter but I kinda believe they're town so idk what to do with that.

[grr]

They just came out of a game where they fakeclaimed d2 as a wolf on MU, their firefighter claim i think is pretty weak for reasons already explained

Their pushes have all been extremely surface level and especially their pushes on vanta/gemma i think lack the care/paranoia wisdom would have there as a villager. Bonus: i think gemma is a villager and the only possible wolf pushing them d1 is wisdom

bop died calling for their head

ngl i was a bit puzzled that both benneh and u came up with that uhhh, a day after the claim happened.

[Maple]

Whoever said solving is easier utg is a fuckin liar there is literally no new information to gleam down here.

Gemma is perhaps a villager. I'll probably submit Jan as my target here on the off chance I live, though I considered sending to dya instead. I mean fmpov it's pretty hard to tell people who are trying to kill me for legitimate reasons vs wolves trying to get a role off the board. How many alive are there even?

Let's say I have, like, 6 v reads I'm not sure how many more I need atm.

[ladd]

Good morning chat, i see the last 80 posts have been more talking in circles

And let me tell you, I've been thinking in circles, too.

My reads are approximately 1% different than they were before.

i think you kinda just need to spitball anything you are thinking atp if u are a villager cause otherwise you are probably ded


Jan feel free to ignore this but if we end up lunching in wisdom/maple, i'd kill outisde of the claims tonight. Probably in me/sunbae/benneh/knights honestly but go with god depending on what your reads are


Ladd part of my problem with how I've been reading you is despite having your vote plopped on Maple for a lot of d2, it doesn't feel like that vote really existed outside that vote, even in casual talk with other people in the thread. Idk, any reason you weren't trying to move votes to Maple

not really? i think maple was top wagon most of they day and maple wasnt around until close to eod when they claimed so nothing really changing my mind posting wise either

i dont see the need to repeat "maple is a wolf" all day for 48 hours

[insomnia]

dyachei's roleclaim that they have a vig shot that gets blocked when target is visited (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858902&viewfull=1#post2053858902) by another person does that in some way mesh with a village/wolf firefighter? (my gth take is a village power role thats only function is to block another village powerrole is kinda... uh, unlikely ig? Is that correct, also insomnia just in case u have thots, but if she is a wolf im not quite sure how the wolves are to work out how they would have to use it either)

long before the claim you kinda had a "if im wrong on someone it'd be wisdom" line um, do you remember why you were conflicted?

blocking the kp of villas by villas is pretty troll. i know i wouldn't add it. also when the setup is already seemingly high KP oriented, taking away a chance at village's KP which is already 1-shot is pretty foul play

to be clear, i think dya can not be a wolf just off their claim and that should be enough, even if it's a closed setup

[ladd]

Whoever said solving is easier utg is a fuckin liar there is literally no new information to gleam down here.

Gemma is perhaps a villager. I'll probably submit Jan as my target here on the off chance I live, though I considered sending to dya instead. I mean fmpov it's pretty hard to tell people who are trying to kill me for legitimate reasons vs wolves trying to get a role off the board. How many alive are there even?

Let's say I have, like, 6 v reads I'm not sure how many more I need atm.

dont give the card to jan unless he confirms ITT he is jailing you, he is probably dying tonight

if he is not jailing you give it someone outside of the claims and that you villaread

if he decided to jail you sure give it to him

[Jan]

i think you kinda just need to spitball anything you are thinking atp if u are a villager cause otherwise you are probably ded


Jan feel free to ignore this but if we end up lunching in wisdom/maple, i'd kill outisde of the claims tonight. Probably in me/sunbae/benneh/knights honestly but go with god depending on what your reads are



not really? i think maple was top wagon most of they day and maple wasnt around until close to eod when they claimed so nothing really changing my mind posting wise either

i dont see the need to repeat "maple is a wolf" all day for 48 hours

On the one hand killing Ladd or Ben is just so much more fun.
On the other hand flipping people who always die next has a lot of value.

[insomnia]

has anyone ever ran a wolf arso pretty much ever? especially visor

feels like firefighter is a massive troll. the 3p wasn't arso, unless visor decided to make the 3p a double acting arso and sk lmfao

[Maple]

i think you kinda just need to spitball anything you are thinking atp if u are a villager cause otherwise you are probably ded


Jan feel free to ignore this but if we end up lunching in wisdom/maple, i'd kill outisde of the claims tonight. Probably in me/sunbae/benneh/knights honestly but go with god depending on what your reads are



not really? i think maple was top wagon most of they day and maple wasnt around until close to eod when they claimed so nothing really changing my mind posting wise either

i dont see the need to repeat "maple is a wolf" all day for 48 hours

Yeah it's not really all that different, like I said.

Dya Jan knights grr you gemma is 6

Responding to insomnia post: it'd not uncommon to add a visitor type role to fuck around with that sorta vigi. What makes it weird is dya being 1 shot. The restriction makes it less likely that visor would fuck with it since it's double gated.

[Maple]

has anyone ever ran a wolf arso pretty much ever? especially visor

feels like firefighter is a massive troll. the 3p wasn't arso, unless visor decided to make the 3p a double acting arso and sk lmfao

The 3p was also already dead so we sorta have to assume unless it's a paired role, wolves got kills off. The only arso explanation would be an arso that houses during the day

But I guess
Wisdom what's the specifics behind your claim?

[insomnia]

The 3p was also already dead so we sorta have to assume unless it's a paired role, wolves got kills off. The only arso explanation would be an arso that houses during the day

But I guess
Wisdom what's the specifics behind your claim?

oh yeah, i was gonna add that to the list of reasons that rask can not be an arso. that debate had me thinking "cmon guise, no way we're spending posts on this" for about a few mins