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hard choice
im like
reading into some pretty dumb shit
like "how hard are they trying to live, how easy are the pushes on the slots" and such
and reading into potential teams
idkkkkkkk
thinkinggggg
i have no idea just kill one of them glglgl
hey grr do you want a card
not rly i kinda assume i die tonight tbh lol. but like if u wanna give a card to a villager ig i will have to state that i would be one of them.
EnderWiggin
08-20-2024, 01:34
If Wisdom is town I'm gonna blame the "You waited too long to yeet me" post
wouldnt it be so funny if i was like
a vt
If Wisdom is town I'm gonna blame the "You waited too long to yeet me" post
i use that line as both alignments often
its usually paired with other stuff tho lol
EnderWiggin
08-20-2024, 01:36
i use that line as both alignments often
its usually paired with other stuff tho lol
I'm pretty sure you used the "You just have to take me as confirmed town now" line and I hated it too.
I just hate any lines that imply we're forced to have x read without like, hard mech backing it up.
Guv, I barely have time to keep up with thread.
yeah i didnt mean since this game started just wondered if u ever read one. i can give u links if u want they are scattered between some alts.
theknightsofneeee
08-20-2024, 01:39
I think this is my last post (?)
I’m a villager.
Haven’t played especially well this game but such is life.
Sunbae voting me is an unexpected curveball for this EOD and it probably signs my death certificate.
For anyone who’s undecided just compare wisdom’s play today to mine, I obviously have done more solving and care more about solving the game, not even close.
My guess is people are weighing dead villagers reads on me too highly, especially sunbae.
I don’t think I have much else info to give.
Glgl, reevaluate everything, maple probably dies and wisdom is still alive, and there is a world where he’s a miselim. So after I flip clear the right people, mainly Gemma/grr. I do still think sunbae is villa but you can’t depend on wolves to kill sunbae for you if he’s a villager because there are several pr’s left and it’s gonna be lylo.
Either clear him and let him solve for you and hope he’s villa, or commit to the wolf read and kill him tomorrow. Don’t wait on the decision.
Currently I would lean towards he is villa but I haven’t seen his reasoning on his vote on me yet so maybe that will change.
(Caught up on thread) okay feeling less like it’s a lock that I’m going to die, sunbae not responding/talking about my big post/giving me a reason that he voted me makes me very uncomfy.
He feels wayyyyy more carefree/not agonizing about this EOD when he should be.
EnderWiggin
08-20-2024, 01:40
yeah i didnt mean since this game started just wondered if u ever read one. i can give u links if u want they are scattered between some alts.
I'm certain I've seen it up close and personal on MU with Turbos. But I can't recall a single one and tbh Turbos are a terrible match for longer form.
I also have been around MU long enough I'm certain I've seen you wolf at some point. But if you asked for specific games I don't have one.
Basically yeah I got no specific meta on you. You just fit the line of "Townread possible wolf who has been snowing people" and I'm getting tinfoily but I'm starting to think that exists. Because my POE just... doesn't work together as a wolf team.
EnderWiggin
08-20-2024, 01:42
Also Knights is posting well at EOD and making me doubt my scumread there lmao
my guy i am refreshing between pulls of 14 raids cause im agonizing so hard!
Montmorency
08-20-2024, 01:44
this is also more of a villager post, that being said i kinda think gemma probably has a better wolfgame than montmorency which is a weird thing for me to think because i haven't seen any of their wolf games so I'm not sure how I even have this read.
I would expect so.
Speaking of, I sometimes try to wonder what the Mafia should be doing rn. It's just as hard for me to simulate their team behavior as it is a robust team theory.
If Wisdom-Knights, then it's pretty obvious: engage in antispew, send one deep for F4/3.
If one of Wisdom-Knights, then try to ML but not too hard, distance to go the distance.
If none of Wisdom-Knights, crack the champagne and try to steer wagons onto both, today and tomorrow.
That's all Lvl 0 thinking. Maybe Lvl 1. But, is there another scenario altogether that is visible in the thread?
can we stop podracing and just yeet wisdom
knights thanked every post except this one
theknightsofneeee
08-20-2024, 01:46
my guy i am refreshing between pulls of 14 raids cause im agonizing so hard!
Feels like you’re popping bottles.
And you still aren’t explaining your vote on me.
I’m super obvious villa rn you should be clearing me it’s not close.
Fuck it yolo
Vote: sunbae
If I die I die
I'm certain I've seen it up close and personal on MU with Turbos. But I can't recall a single one and tbh Turbos are a terrible match for longer form.
I also have been around MU long enough I'm certain I've seen you wolf at some point. But if you asked for specific games I don't have one.
Basically yeah I got no specific meta on you. You just fit the line of "Townread possible wolf who has been snowing people" and I'm getting tinfoily but I'm starting to think that exists. Because my POE just... doesn't work together as a wolf team.
yeah i mean i get that a lot but its kinda boring me tbh becuz it happens every game and it's so predictable lol. probably just means if u are town that u are misclearing someone that aint me.
EnderWiggin
08-20-2024, 01:46
If Wisdom-Knights, then it's pretty obvious: engage in antispew, send one deep for F4/3.
If one of Wisdom-Knights, then try to ML but not too hard, distance to go the distance.
If none of Wisdom-Knights, crack the champagne and try to steer wagons onto both, today and tomorrow.
So do you think it's not w/w given Wisdom has been voting somewhere else this entire time and Knights has been all "But I townread the mech on Wisdom"?
Because that ain't distancing or sending deep at all
insomnia went to sleep early bronana?
Players Votes
Wisdom 6 (Montmorency, Gemma, Theknightsofneeee, EnderWiggin, Vanta Black, Sunbae)
Theknightsofneeee 2 (grr, insomnia)
Gemma 1 (Wisdom)
whatthistextdo
Montmorency
08-20-2024, 01:48
so im pretty convinced at this point that there *is* no inverter, and that people are being inverted for mechanical reasons
be it "a card is randomly drawn each night to be inverted" or there's a pre-set list of roles that get inverted each day.
missing days are wolves, perhaps
:thinking:
Also Knights is posting well at EOD and making me doubt my scumread there lmao
yeah hes villagery asf lol
Montmorency
08-20-2024, 01:49
So do you think it's not w/w given Wisdom has been voting somewhere else this entire time and Knights has been all "But I townread the mech on Wisdom"?
Because that ain't distancing or sending deep at all
Well, I notice the sudden consolidation, will have to wait and see.
EnderWiggin
08-20-2024, 01:50
insom cfd inc
Vote: Insomnia
Hot off the press.
sooo gonna drop some of the fps
my supposed PGO is more of a
vengeance mechanic
and only kills killing roles
Montmorency
08-20-2024, 01:50
So do you think it's not w/w given Wisdom has been voting somewhere else this entire time and Knights has been all "But I townread the mech on Wisdom"?
Because that ain't distancing or sending deep at all
BTW, in this environment, distancing doesn't have to be simple distancing, it can be antispew based on WIFOM. Lategame with early flips often turns into that, unless there's just hellbussing ftw. Hard to say.
sooo gonna drop some of the fps
my supposed PGO is more of a
vengeance mechanic
and only kills killing roles
bro we dont care
EnderWiggin
08-20-2024, 01:51
Vote: Knights of Nee
:curtain:
Montmorency
08-20-2024, 01:52
wouldnt it be so funny if i was like
a vt
You already told us D3 that you didn't cap on us.
Players Votes
Wisdom 4 (Montmorency, Gemma, Vanta Black, Sunbae)
Theknightsofneeee 2 (grr, insomnia)
Gemma 1 (Wisdom)
Sunbae 1 (Theknightsofneeee)
insomnia 1 (EnderWiggin)
whatthistextdo
EnderWiggin
08-20-2024, 01:54
Vote: Wisdom
:Curtain:
Players Votes
Theknightsofneeee 4 (grr, insomnia, EnderWiggin, Sunbae)
Wisdom 3 (Montmorency, Gemma, Vanta Black)
Gemma 1 (Wisdom)
Sunbae 1 (Theknightsofneeee)
whatthistextdo
insomnia for christs sake whered you go jfc
theknightsofneeee
08-20-2024, 01:55
I’m not moving, I’ve seen through the matrix and sunbae is wolfing
Glgl
vote: theknightsofneeee
meow
EnderWiggin
08-20-2024, 01:55
Poor Visor trying to keep up with the vote hopping. I'm sorry lmao.
I wish yall would have informed me of what buttons you were itching to press like 24hrs ago becuz maybe i would have thought about it yaknow. but. thats just silly me dreams. i have been here before i will be here again.
EnderWiggin
08-20-2024, 01:56
Hobsen not really sorry.
:curtain:
I’m not moving, I’ve seen through the matrix and sunbae is wolfing
Glgl
bruh
also arent you postcapped lol
EnderWiggin
08-20-2024, 01:57
I wish yall would have informed me of what buttons you were itching to press like 24hrs ago becuz maybe i would have thought about it yaknow. but. thats just silly me dreams. i have been here before i will be here again.
Apart from the joke on Insom all the buttons I've pressed have been pretty clearly mentioned in my posts idk what you want from me.
just end this nightmare tbh lmfao.
Players Votes
Wisdom 5 (Montmorency, Gemma, Vanta Black, EnderWiggin, Sunbae)
Theknightsofneeee 3 (grr, insomnia, Maple)
Gemma 1 (Wisdom)
Sunbae 1 (Theknightsofneeee)
whatthistextdo
vote: theknightsofneeee ahhh
Poor Visor trying to keep up with the vote hopping. I'm sorry lmao.
lmao its the most entertaining part of eod ngl
Apart from the joke on Insom all the buttons I've pressed have been pretty clearly mentioned in my posts idk what you want from me.
i dont think ANYONE has suggested they would be inclined to wagon sunbae the entire day. meh.
lmao its the most entertaining part of eod ngl
(not if its 3am btw)
Montmorency
08-20-2024, 01:58
we on that squid game shit
Players Votes
Wisdom 4 (Montmorency, Gemma, Vanta Black, EnderWiggin)
Theknightsofneeee 4 (grr, insomnia, Maple, Sunbae)
Gemma 1 (Wisdom)
Sunbae 1 (Theknightsofneeee)
whatthistextdo
shrug im voting with inso is what i set out to do. if hes wolfing whatever if hes willaging whatever.
EnderWiggin
08-20-2024, 01:59
Let it rand
i will simply trust in dya
Montmorency
08-20-2024, 02:00
RNJesus is my lover.
EnderWiggin
08-20-2024, 02:00
im gayest
Montmorency
08-20-2024, 02:01
lol 26784
fuck
dont u dare make another post
https://i.imgur.com/AtKHJ4h.png
Players Votes
Wisdom 4 (Montmorency, Gemma, Vanta Black, EnderWiggin)
Theknightsofneeee 4 (grr, insomnia, Maple, Sunbae)
Gemma 1 (Wisdom)
Sunbae 1 (Theknightsofneeee)
whatthistextdo
i believe this is the tally, 15 mins for corrections
tally confirmed, gimme a sec for the flip
theknightsofneeee was killed.
They were:
The Fool
https://i.imgur.com/1j5aYtC.jpeg
They were village!
24 hours for night., Night orders due 7pm, so 22 hours for night orders.
whatthistextdo
Obviously do NOT post at night, thanks.
https://i.imgur.com/oZSbEiz.png
Posts as per yday.
N5 Results
Sunbae was killed.
They were:
The Hierophant
https://i.imgur.com/dkVR1RO.jpeg
They were village!
-----
Gemma was killed.
They were:
The Moon
https://i.imgur.com/rOgUJuF.jpeg
They were village!
--
48 hours for day.
whatthistextdo
Don't post till 9pm EDT.
sorry knights, HUGE punt
that's on me, i am not beating the washed allegations at this rate
Vanta Black EnderWiggin
actions?
Montmorency
08-21-2024, 02:06
Told ya.
Sunbae NK really throws me. It guarantees that at least one of Maple-Ender are FPS deep scum, but that's really an F3 problem. Unless a vig is behind it? Because tbh I was itching to vig Some Bum (heh heh) if given an opportunity. But I can hardly trust claims anymore. Especially like, what vig doesn't just resolve Wisdom here? Skipping Wisdom would be a Custer-tier attempt at a hero shot.
But Maple and Ender should claim immediately regardless.
I have no plan other than Wisdom for today. Certainly, I don't trust any other option, even if it's correct, because from now on Town needs absolute unity on the lym to have a chance. Overall, my POE has to be Wisdom-Vanta-grr rn, even though I slightly TL gr and think Vanta is mildly spewed, because I have to lock insom town and lack the skill to drill down Maple/Ender worlds. Worst look for grr and vanta was from positioning in neb's glowy reads list, but that isn't much. Their votes are worse, but we are in a loltown kind of game.
And Wisdom is the only unity option. If we lose with t-Wisdom right now, it was because m-Ender btw.
Vote: Wisdom
***INCOMPLETE WORLDBUILDING***
Vanta Black - Does not appear to be playing the game like a wolf. Spew is sort of a crapshoot but I am considering clearing vanta on posts, depending. I want *extra* feedback on what people think about vanta here, please and thanks.
grr - Has been widly village read by basically everyone, went back in. Most likely partners appear to be ender or insom. Maaaybe wisdom. Unlikely to be with mont. Quite unlikely to be on a team with syn. Seems like a villager overall
EnderWiggin - Seems unlikely to be with ben, could potentially be paired with grr (or more liekly) something like insom or mont. The claim is a crapshoot. In fact, the claim is somewhat ~wolfy~ overall. However, posts and play appear relatively villagery.
insomnia - EoD1 seems ~quite~ unpairing with syn. Most likely partners would probably look like mont, wisdom, maybe vanta.
Wisdom - ~good interactions with the flipped wolves. Based on raw interactions, most likely partners are grr or ender , with insom, mont, and vanta being more of wildcards. If w, that pretty heavily seems to imply the possibility of a bus yesterday, which ~maybe~. Seems harder to catch on partner interactions. All that said, there's the ~literally everything~ with benneh that's also a variable that's hard to parse.
Montmorency - More or less a wildcard. The only person I've reasonably cleared as being partnered with is grr. Also the wisdom stuff yesterday, but you can cross that against wisdom stuff on previous days and basically call it a wash. A current high probabiltiy wolf slot for me.
~~~
i guess based on like, raw vibes, im currently at
grr>ender>insom>vanta>wisdom>mont
soooo yeah, that's my current ranking of remaining slots. I didnt get a chance to do the entire thread for spew analysis yet, and i sort of jumped around a lot (not having ISOs + basically navigating via the threadmarks in OP to find interesting bits)
so i would appreciate being pinged with interesting tidbits, partnering/unpartnering interactions, spew, etc.
Montmorency
08-21-2024, 02:14
ftr I've POEd Wisdom since the SOD2.
yeah that's actually like totally wrong
im going back to the drawing board
Montmorency
08-21-2024, 02:15
Full Gemma ISO as a courtesy. Shielded Insomnia, SRed Vanta, SRed Wisdom, sussed Sunbae. That's pretty much it. Only full reads list here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053860432&viewfull=1#post2053860432).
ftr I've POEd Wisdom since the SOD2.
yeah but you voted for ladd so it's a wash
how i feel about ender and vanta is gonna be *heavily* influenced by what they claim here
since i presume one of them are going to be claiming that sunbae shot lol
Montmorency
08-21-2024, 02:18
yeah that's actually like totally wrong
im going back to the drawing board
We need some explanation for why PRs didn't die last night. Gemma is a decent kill in itself, for being consensus town, but unless at least one claimed PR is mafia, or Mafia expect to be collecting gifts from PRs, it's disturbing not to kill there. Has it just been a power scum game?
anyway
i gifted grr d4, vanta d5
Montmorency
08-21-2024, 02:25
yeah but you voted for ladd so it's a wash
Vanta and grr did too, as did nearly half the player list. But Ladd was always the head of my POE.
Like I said, it's a loltown game, so we could each proceed to nitpick each other's unproductive votes.
Unless you can find clear saving partner-saving votes, VCA won't help us find scum. The closest we have among living players is Wisdom for her Gemma vote EOD 1. (Vanta, Ender, grr afk, Insom crucial Syn vote)
Yeppppppppp
It's so awesome
Montmorency
08-21-2024, 02:28
lmao Maple your votes since D1 have been Dolby, N/A, N/A, knights. Like I said, we can sit here nitpicking voting records.
Oh don't worry I'm well aware.
Montmorency
08-21-2024, 02:56
Lurkers where art thee?
Maple, why gift Vanta and not me if both of us have been in your POE since D3/4?
Montmorency
08-21-2024, 02:58
Why not gift Sunbae N3/4, since you had a solid town read on him? Or why not just circle jerk with Ender after all? Maybe you could gift each other docs and protect chain. :sneaky:
Vanta Black
08-21-2024, 04:23
I mean, I WISH I could claim a vig shot, but no.
Okay, I asked for a card, and I got TWO. I think it's late enough in the game to say that one was a protective and the other, which by the sound of it shoulda been a vig or something, was not, but is merely a modifier to another action, and I couldn't use them both at the same time. I used the protective on someone who is still alive, but I don't know if it did anything. In light of two kills I'm wondering again about this evasive arsonist, which I'd pretty much written off as either never here or dead.
Gemmaaaaaaaaaaaa
Drat
And rip Sunbae
7 people left... me/Insom/Grr/Maple/Ender/Vanta/Monte
Insom is likely town. Grr has had some wolfy moments but I would be genuinly surprised if he flipped wolf.
So 2-3 wolves in Ender/Vanta/Monte/Maple
Vote: Monte I'll do more digging later
My d1 voting streak is over :(
f7 btw so we need to vote correctly and all together
what are people thinking right now?
Maplechora cannot possibly be the only one posting full lists here
I shot sunbae btw with maples card. I don't even wanna claim it ngl but I probs should rofl. I suppose I can explain it altho I don't really like explaining why I thought a villager was a wolf cuz it was evidently wrong but anyway. I already read had re-read d1-d2 and umm, I basically got reminded of why I was so sus of them early on and thought that was still valid.
He was also was pretty sure(?) about saying Wisdom looked good off benneh the day before so it kinda made sense to me to shoot him, but it's probably stupid reasoning. And I also just kinda believed when knights said Sunbae should be seeing him as town. I don't know how well these players know each other unfortunately but in general I believe these kinda takes.
And also to be honest. I really hoped if I shot wrong that the game would immediately end so I would be saved of the embarassment. alas.
Monte is probably my highest TR. Yesterdays EOD felt towny, todays SOD also feels towny (seems genuinely uninformed that the vig was not done by wolf). After seeing Gemma died, I am not sure if I was totally clowning on copreading bop, I might have been. I have more reads but mostly they come down to everyone else feels like a wolf to me.
I am a VT btw. I have been mulling over why insomnia actually did v-read vanta, as Gemma squinted at that read, and after I reading I kinda get it felt fake lmao, he said Vanta looks to have a genuine flow or something (i would need to read again just speaking out of memory now), and then I looked at Vantas wolf game over on MU and it also sounded "fine" to me so I didn't get it.
and i will make no secret of it, the fact that insomnia virtually dodged like 3 EoDs in a row in varying degrees and no prior warning has been bothering me. is it wolfy? no clue. but it's certainly not helping keeping up trust. so at this point I have been mostly clinging to Arctic and ladd saying he was a villager.
https://i.imgur.com/DZOn8ne.png
let me consult the chart......
Maple has looked super wolfy to me socially despite having giving me a card and I'm just kinda "sheeping" whatever (i suppose the inventor mech IS kinda >rand v? Like I genuinely have no fucking clue. I did however also not forget what bopolis said about the PGO being a wolf tech, no one talked about that ever again and thats how it goes) but I'll actually be surprised if he flips town. So the bottom line is everyone but Monte is a wolf in my eyes. (inb4 monte is a wolf then just whatever tbh).
Ig we have no hammer so
Vote: Wisdom If wrong GGs it wasnt meant to be. If right we probably still also lose idk what to do.
https://i.imgur.com/DZOn8ne.png
let me consult the chart......
this is hilarious tell me when you found out.
im actually stunlocked right now
i have never been so frozen in a game of werewolf
this is what i get for pushing knights and dolby i dont even think im allowed to complain
why *not* shoot wisdom last night?
So here's the issue:
Am I willing to bet the game on this Wisdom/Maple v/v read I have?
Ugh idk. Watching all the dead villagers roll in after losing to Wisdom or Maple would make me feel like I failed. They've been adamant that those two need to die and it would be incredibly selfish to just say nah to that.
But also, that's just ... what I believe? and I have more information now than they did when they died. So maybe I am supposed to roll with it. Trust myself and my ability to read players. I've never been afraid of looking silly (side note: me saying things that are wild or silly is a good way to town read me because I'm way more hesitant to say things like that as a wolf when as a villager I just believe it and go) but I'm also washed and rusty you know so bleh. Also, I don't even know if I have the threadpull to convince anyone anyways if I want to shield.
I wish I did it for Ladd. Is it just overcorrecting to do it now? It's tough spot for me.
I'm not gunna dig all up the posts but one of the main reason is sunbae was pushing to get out of the Wisdom/Maple PoE earlier so if wisdom flipped wolf I was always gonna hard wolfread him anyway.
Bruh it's 2am and I'm sitting in my kittycat PJs, staring at my phone, wondering where it all went so wrong
Early childhood, most likely.
I'm not gunna dig all up the posts but one of the main reason is sunbae was pushing to get out of the Wisdom/Maple PoE earlier so if wisdom flipped wolf I was always gonna hard wolfread him anyway.
Then like why go into today voting wisdom then?
If you shot sunbae based on a reads based same check, why not either clear out the poe slot or protect the second half of the difference check?
Then like why go into today voting wisdom then?
If you shot sunbae based on a reads based same check, why not either clear out the poe slot or protect the second half of the difference check?
so u think after a failed shot the first thing i do is ignore what everyone else has been saying was correct. idk i dont really care you solving me cuz honestly it just convinced me more that you are a wolf because you know i am a pretty obvious read without having to inspect my deeper logic or actions.
Bro are you kidding me?
Your actions have 0 logical consistency here.
You see that, right?
I gave you a fucking gun how am I EVER a wolf?
Why not have this reconsideration after knights died?
Bro are you kidding me?
Your actions have 0 logical consistency here.
You see that, right?
I gave you a fucking gun how am I EVER a wolf?
idk? i hoped OTHERS would tell me but I have given up on that like, n2 or something.
Why not have this reconsideration after knights died?
wdym?
I mean, I WISH I could claim a vig shot, but no.
Okay, I asked for a card, and I got TWO. I think it's late enough in the game to say that one was a protective and the other, which by the sound of it shoulda been a vig or something, was not, but is merely a modifier to another action, and I couldn't use them both at the same time. I used the protective on someone who is still alive, but I don't know if it did anything. In light of two kills I'm wondering again about this evasive arsonist, which I'd pretty much written off as either never here or dead.
If Ender is wolf, venta must always be a partner
Doesn't go both ways sadly so it isn't exactly a same check I don't think
wdym?
We killed knights over wisdom in a tied vote. We killed a villager over wisdom. Why not have that be the moment where you say "perhaps I should resolve this centuries old wagon"?
I see no difference between killing knights and killing sunbae wrt "make me reconsider on wisdom"
I cant really do world building here. if ur town insonmia/venta/wisdom maybe makes sense based on the little i remember but its like insomnia snowed everyone then and im not even sure if im buying that myself and im still trying to wrap my head around how the he just disappears from the scene several EoDs.
We killed knights over wisdom in a tied vote. We killed a villager over wisdom. Why not have that be the moment where you say "perhaps I should resolve this centuries old wagon"?
I see no difference between killing knights and killing sunbae wrt "make me reconsider on wisdom"
honestly the genuine response is throwing my hands in the air and saying "idk man". lol
Yeah that's probably the best answer you can reasonably give here
insomnia
08-21-2024, 10:06
f7 btw so we need to vote correctly and all together
what are people thinking right now?
Maplechora cannot possibly be the only one posting full lists here
vote wisdom and if it's wrong, wasn't meant to be
Grr if you're v and your mont read is correct the possible teams are
Ender venta insom
Or
Venta wisdom insom
Right?
I cant really see ender vanta wisdom since that's sort of an insane bus esp when it goes to a rand
insomnia
08-21-2024, 10:09
i really do think it's just 2 alive but maybe im intoxicated
i really do think it's just 2 alive but maybe im intoxicated
I was thinking about this
And uh
If rask was full nk and it's a team of 5, one of the wolves is highly likely lost
If rask was some other form of neutral, then it's a full wolf team
And if it's a team of 4, a miss today doesn't end the game
I'm willing to just lose to Ben being lost, quite frankly
Grr if you're v and your mont read is correct the possible teams are
Ender venta insom
Or
Venta wisdom insom
Right?
I cant really see ender vanta wisdom since that's sort of an insane bus esp when it goes to a rand
ngl I dont know why I would exclude a wisdom bus if wisdom is a wolf.
insomnia
08-21-2024, 10:13
I think rask was SK
the flavor can make him arso but idk why he would ever be claiming a kill d2 unless it wasn't his in a closed setup that 99% has a villa vig. his syn read was genuine, he wasn't a wolf, so he can just keep posting / solving and change the course without instantly claiming, but i think he did that cuz it was the easier / shorter route
i really do think it's just 2 alive but maybe im intoxicated
why do u think this i almost never play large setups. i need references i feel like only 2 alive means we got a lot more leeway than we should have?
insomnia
08-21-2024, 10:15
I mean, a Gemma NK here really makes vanta look terrible, im not sure whether that is intended
insomnia
08-21-2024, 10:18
why do u think this i almost never play large setups. i need references i feel like only 2 alive means we got a lot more leeway than we should have?
for the life of me i have no clue what this wolfteam is doing if it's 3 alive
i guess a team of 3 just doesn't seem possible to me after PoEing and all that
grr / maple (he wins if wolf, i don't have the patience to solo this against everyone who defended him so you can blame them if he's wolf)
it would mean 3 in wisdom / ender / vanta / monte
Im kinda aware now that i must be wrong on one of ender or vanta, not sure if on both. The thinking is that in a 2 man team, mont was bussing wisdom hardcore yesterday when there are plenty other avenues for not bussing, so that team doesn't make sense to me
Hopefully in a 3 man, the team is bussing wisdom and knowing today is the last day she lives
The most dangerous world is vanta / ender
insomnia
08-21-2024, 10:21
like idk, for any 3 of those people i struggle to see wtf their gameplan is
The most common theme in there is that they would all be bussing wisdom. I feel like if wisdom was villa, the opinions would differ a lot more and at least someone would express a v read
insomnia
08-21-2024, 10:23
I just can't think of a 3 man team and wth they must be doing if wisdom is not a wolf
It'd mean vanta / ender / mont and that's the only option offered by PoE fmpov and legit the only one
And it just feels so wrong for whatever reason
Like what, they're all just bandwagonning wisdom and not even splitting their views apart? I think they were all voting wisdom yesterday, no?
I'm going to be called so many obscenities in dvc if I level myself into killing vanta if the team is like
Insom/mont/wisdom
insomnia
08-21-2024, 10:29
Ye manti, a pretty big potentially bad problem for you is that you gave vanta 1 card and ender apparently another
So we need to decide what to do with them today cuz if they are a wolf and got a vig, it's gg even in a 2 man team
insomnia
08-21-2024, 10:30
Can we all agree that there is no viable 3 man team without wisdom in it?
Just so I know where we are all standing
Indeed that is a problem, yes.
I swapped off sunbae thinking he was gonna die in the night
Fuckin monkey's paw ass night phase I swear
The non-wisdom world is
Vanta+ender+1 (but fypov this appears unlikely unless it's the funniest world of all time)
Or
grr+insom+1, but apparently I have notes pushing against this world who knows
insomnia
08-21-2024, 10:42
grr / myself world is just not possible
everyone with meta on both of us had us villa pretty comfortably, you just tip your hat and congratulate us, for we would have brought winter during the summer brav
for the life of me i have no clue what this wolfteam is doing if it's 3 alive
i guess a team of 3 just doesn't seem possible to me after PoEing and all that
grr / maple (he wins if wolf, i don't have the patience to solo this against everyone who defended him so you can blame them if he's wolf)
it would mean 3 in wisdom / ender / vanta / monte
Im kinda aware now that i must be wrong on one of ender or vanta, not sure if on both. The thinking is that in a 2 man team, mont was bussing wisdom hardcore yesterday when there are plenty other avenues for not bussing, so that team doesn't make sense to me
Hopefully in a 3 man, the team is bussing wisdom and knowing today is the last day she lives
The most dangerous world is vanta / ender
ok but. you are excluding maple for pragmatic purposes which is fine and all. i just dont get how your head goes internally to "3 wolf team doesnt seem possible" i suppose its not how i think about these things. when i clear someone to make the game simpler for me i still dont rule them out when i think about how many wolves there can be so the thought "only 2 wolves" wouldnt cross my mind.
i suppose i generally just find it pingy when people talk the number of wolves down rather than up, cause its generally a red flag in mashes but, but maybe its just different strokes for different folks idk.
grr / myself world is just not possible
everyone with meta on both of us had us villa pretty comfortably, you just tip your hat and congratulate us, for we would have brought winter during the summer brav
I like this world I choose to live in it now. I would finally get my award or recognition for something...
insomnia
08-21-2024, 10:56
and the reason vanta / ender / +1 fmpov due to poe can only be mont, which is why im saying it's extremely unlikely cuz in that world
they're all just bandwagonning on a villager instead of splitting their solves to be in better positions
in addition to how funny that team would be
so yeah, im at the conclusion no living 3 man team can exist without wisdom (this is by going with grr villa read and maple hoping he's v due to the insane wolfsiding if he is not that i just can't go against unless im 100% sure on him being a wolf, which simply is never gonna be a thing this dayphase, maybe if we get to f3 and he's alive then i'd consider it)
insomnia
08-21-2024, 10:59
well im taking maple as a villa due to the 2 prs who decided to go against consensus all game for thin reasons imo
we have to follow their judgement cuz if we lunch and we are wrong, then it would have all been for nothing
and like i said, i just can't lunch maple today over wisdom even with that.
insomnia
08-21-2024, 11:02
im still set on lunching wisdom, mechanically speaking i think it's the correct lunch in a closed setup
however, the biggest issue remains vanta. because if they are a wolf, chances are the game ends if they got a good card, so we need to be sure we all v read them
and ender gave them a card so that could be pairing as well
btw monte specifically asked to not receive a card yesterday for a p. genuine reason imo.
call it a dumb micro ping but i dont think he does that w/w with maple (somewhat unlikely) but he defo doesnt do it if maple v and monte w.
EnderWiggin
08-21-2024, 11:44
Vote: Wisdom
For once I think I actually was in the right side of an EOD. Wild times. I reckon Wisdom has been KP that wolves have been dragging through the game.
Benneh was either lost or that was a setup with the spew. Either way idc I just think Wisdom has to contain a wolf.
insomnia
08-21-2024, 11:47
think we'd benefit from everyone posting a list and any important thoughts to go along with it
Wisdom EnderWiggin Montmorency grr Maple
@VantaBlack
EnderWiggin
08-21-2024, 11:47
sorry knights, HUGE punt
that's on me, i am not beating the washed allegations at this rate
Vanta Black EnderWiggin
actions?
Gave a card to Vanta.
Further thoughts pending what else is said in catchup.
EnderWiggin
08-21-2024, 11:50
think we'd benefit from everyone posting a list and any important thoughts to go along with it
Wisdom EnderWiggin Montmorency grr Maple
@VantaBlack
Like a sus list?
I'm still pending catchup but my overnight list that I reached was like:
Wisdom > Probably Maple > One of Grr/Insom?
But given Maple gave a card to Vanta I'm wondering if it's more like Wisdom > Maple > Vanta
Monty I think gets a lot of town cred if Wisdom does flip wolf given they've tried to fight the tide for days to get them voted out when no one else stuck out the tide like em.
Also I still think Monty's play is towny kinda.
EnderWiggin
08-21-2024, 11:58
I shot sunbae btw with maples card. I don't even wanna claim it ngl but I probs should rofl. I suppose I can explain it altho I don't really like explaining why I thought a villager was a wolf cuz it was evidently wrong but anyway. I already read had re-read d1-d2 and umm, I basically got reminded of why I was so sus of them early on and thought that was still valid.
He was also was pretty sure(?) about saying Wisdom looked good off benneh the day before so it kinda made sense to me to shoot him, but it's probably stupid reasoning. And I also just kinda believed when knights said Sunbae should be seeing him as town. I don't know how well these players know each other unfortunately but in general I believe these kinda takes.
And also to be honest. I really hoped if I shot wrong that the game would immediately end so I would be saved of the embarassment. alas.
Monte is probably my highest TR. Yesterdays EOD felt towny, todays SOD also feels towny (seems genuinely uninformed that the vig was not done by wolf). After seeing Gemma died, I am not sure if I was totally clowning on copreading bop, I might have been. I have more reads but mostly they come down to everyone else feels like a wolf to me.
Why did you wait through til last night to shoot? Given I assume you could've shot the night you received the card?
Ngl I would've holstered a shot last night purely because if wolves have 3 people left and 2 kp (Which it seems they've had in previous nights) you can lose the game if you for example shoot a town.
But shooting the previous night would've been fine.
Nyeh maybe this is nitpicky and confbias-y.
EnderWiggin
08-21-2024, 12:01
https://i.imgflip.com/90xzjr.jpg
EnderWiggin
08-21-2024, 12:04
i really do think it's just 2 alive but maybe im intoxicated
I did think about this last night.
It's like the one world where Wisdom is town probably.
But I'd rather play as if we're at lylo than consider non-lylo worlds and lose lmao.
EnderWiggin
08-21-2024, 12:07
like idk, for any 3 of those people i struggle to see wtf their gameplan is
The most common theme in there is that they would all be bussing wisdom. I feel like if wisdom was villa, the opinions would differ a lot more and at least someone would express a v read
I feel like there were a lot of people expressing v reads in between the wagons?
Like I was repping a V spew read on Wisdom for a few days before I decided it was a bad read.
EnderWiggin
08-21-2024, 12:08
I'm going to be called so many obscenities in dvc if I level myself into killing vanta if the team is like
Insom/mont/wisdom
If Mont/Wis is w/w that is a hell bus and a half.
EnderWiggin
08-21-2024, 12:08
Ye manti, a pretty big potentially bad problem for you is that you gave vanta 1 card and ender apparently another
So we need to decide what to do with them today cuz if they are a wolf and got a vig, it's gg even in a 2 man team
I didn't get a card.
Grr and Vanta were the last two cards according to Maple.
EnderWiggin
08-21-2024, 12:12
Huh. I'm up to date and I don't feel drained from the process. Wild.
EnderWiggin
08-21-2024, 12:12
I'm gonna grab some food then I'll bring up some of the stuff I saw that made me think of the whole Maple/Wisdom idea.
Why did you wait through til last night to shoot? Given I assume you could've shot the night you received the card?
Ngl I would've holstered a shot last night purely because if wolves have 3 people left and 2 kp (Which it seems they've had in previous nights) you can lose the game if you for example shoot a town.
But shooting the previous night would've been fine.
Nyeh maybe this is nitpicky and confbias-y.
I'm not rly here rn but.
The card was backup on a dead player hence it took another phase for me to shoot. I backed up Arctic (I REALLY didnt want to i wanted to back up a cop so i didnt have to shoot anyone but Arctic was the only one that kind of hard hinted at having a role in the first place and I wasnt sure about sheep who was speculated to be a PR and bop who just seemed like "probably" cop to me, and I didn't wanna whiff it on a VT so I took Arctic.)
There was just a lot of stuff going on through my head in how to handle that becuz due to the nature of the card wolves wouldnt know exactly what power i got (Arctic was a tracker with like a secondary comeback vigilante ability which i used last night, Arctic never shot anyone as he didnt have the power available at that point, don't ask me who he tracked I skimmed and wasn't sure).
EnderWiggin
08-21-2024, 13:20
I'm not rly here rn but.
The card was backup on a dead player hence it took another phase for me to shoot. I backed up Arctic (I REALLY didnt want to i wanted to back up a cop so i didnt have to shoot anyone but Arctic was the only one that kind of hard hinted at having a role in the first place and I wasnt sure about sheep who was speculated to be a PR and bop who just seemed like "probably" cop to me, and I didn't wanna whiff it on a VT so I took Arctic.)
There was just a lot of stuff going on through my head in how to handle that becuz due to the nature of the card wolves wouldnt know exactly what power i got (Arctic was a tracker with like a secondary comeback vigilante ability which i used last night, Arctic never shot anyone as he didnt have the power available at that point, don't ask me who he tracked I skimmed and wasn't sure).
That...
Makes a lot more sense. Hm.
EnderWiggin
08-21-2024, 14:38
dunno what you mean.
if benneh is wolfing it would be very unlikely to be with either sunbae or dya imo. ymmv. kind of a recycled read i used in a hydra game ages ago but its probs accurate.
While I'm sorting things and for whenever you are around:
grr
Could you explain this D1 thought a bit?
EnderWiggin
08-21-2024, 15:28
Vote: Gemma
I was thinking about voting in Maple/Bop as well but it sure is about time wagons go wheeee!
So this is the only real mention of each other D1, and then early D2:
>rand village action targeting my slot, depending what this means.
Gonna laugh if this ends up being a loud douse.
Syn slipping me into top village for no reason is nagl, I'm sure ??
In any case, slotting stet and knights into v for the moment. I'm not feeling the need to go back on any of my prior v leans at this moment.
Interested in ender and wisdom to start with, thinking about some other peeps too.
Lumps Wisdom in there at the end.
Then not much until:
I don't have much to say except my earlier post on this page. His tunnel on me was likely coming from a town!PoV. I don't think he's w/w with Maple. That's pretty much all I got on him.
Just throwing a w/w read out there.
Then Grr asks:
Wisdom you said you vote Vanta because everyone had something towny, which is fine.
Can you explain ummm... I hope 4 names are not too much but benneh, sunbae, maple and montecery for me then?
I forgot about both Mont existing when I wrote that. Ben too, really, but it wouldn't have changed my point.
While it's not worth much, I thought that Benneh in a few bursts of posts (214 to 376 in his iso) varied shitposting with solving in a way that I associate with town PoV, but it's not worth much and doubt it's towny for him specifically.
Maple is mostly a bs read. I liked his talk about getting reversed but when Jan started talking about it I kinda changed my mind, doing mech stuff to mislead is exactly what I expect from w!Maple.
Sunbae just sounds pure.
And I just have to insert:
i hope the wolves arent something like benneh/maple/wisdom cause id be playing very bad if it was
(Sorry Sunbae but this is amusing in context of what I'm arguing in this post.)
At this point a wagon is floating on Maple. Wisdom ignores it. Instead votes Gemma and pushes hard for Gemma being sus.
Then Benneh dismisses the sus on the "cred grabby" vote by Maple:
maple looks worst but i dont really know how much we glean anyway since syn popped up pretty quickly from what i can tell. i doubt wolves were capable of responding to that in any kind of strategic way regardless of rask's alignment
The wagon on Maple starts growing after Jan's PR claim, Benneh's reaction:
Vote: Raskolnikov
fine giving ender some space, would rather go rask than jan but could also vote maple ig
Maple then makes a comment about FF/Arso "if they're real", never really addresses a read on Wisdom.
Finally mentions a read on Wisdom:
vote: dolby
Just going to reiterate, for the people in the back, that my role is confirmable and therefore selfresolving.
If I call bop Arctic knights sunbae stett v
And I call wisdom Jan v
That leaves me with 11 leftover. So I'm basically halfway there. Granted, I feel like there's a very real chance that I'm pocketed as fuck.
Continuing to yolo shit out
So sorting names into two categories
Ben grr ender gemma Mont venti
Ladd rask dolby dya
I'm missing one person. But we can call those rough unordered tiers. With the top tier being "I have any conceivable reason to call this person a villager but I don't personally buy it" and "I have no real reason to call this person a villager" respectively
So I suppose this mysterious 11th person belongs in the second group
Yall I got bad news. My solve this game is dogshit.
Throwaway townread. Still no further read on Maple from Wisdom despite calling them wolfy a few times.
Hmmm
Well, I was thinking rask but he also claimed
I’d lean maple rn but I kinda wanna see what happens over the. Text few hours
More of Benneh being unsubstantially interested in pushing Maple but sussing them. Benneh DOES then jump on Maple when Maple claims self-resolvable.
I'm not sure how to parse that just yet.
Saw the claim summary above. Maple's posting is pinging me. What's the current vote count?
Wisdom, who had stated an earlier sus on Maple, states this again when the wagon runs away on D2. This is before Rask saves the day for Maple.
Yeah makes sense. If there's something who'd fake claim to live another day it'd be Maple. What was the context before he claimed, was he pushed or was it from a safe position in threadstate?
Very cautiously said for someone who has tentatively sussed Maple literally every mention so far.
Rask then blows up with Dya and Benneh follows on, but this isn't really indicative of anything I think.
Vote: maple
so much for feedback at EOD lol
This does give me a little pause, but Benneh was also after Wisdom at this point. I think he intended to bus them at best if they are wolves.
We are now D3 though, and Wisdom and Maple still haven't really done much about each other except a static one-line repeat basically.
Lol
Gave Arctic the card cause I figured he wouldn't die in the night.
Oopsiepoopsie
And I still think this is fucking wolfy on reread.
I'm starting to suspect ladd is a wolf who's pocketing/whiteknighting me tbh, but it's hard to explain why
But when I think that there's 3-4 wolves in 14 players (right?) and that he's alive it's easy to think he's a wolf.
Like, the easiest world is it's like Gemma/Vanta/Dolby/Monte but it's never that easy. Ladd's easy to tinfoil, and then we have Knights and Benneh who I've got no clue on, and Ender who I can't remember a single d2 post from but I read he claimed pr.
Dya's town. Grr's probably town. I still want to think Jan is my D1 Town Clear and won't re-evaluate unless alive end game, if he's town pr he'll just die eventually anyway. And Maple who I don't know what his deal is.
My goal for today is finding 8 villagers, I have 3 right now +2 potential pr's. I'm soon done with work so can put some more work in when I get home.
And then Wisdom's first mention on D3 is above.
----------------------------
Summary
Basically Wisdom and Maple have like sideways mentioned or sussed each other, but when wagons or pushes went to either, neither did much about it. (Note: Maple has only mentioned Wisdom in a towny light up to half-way through D3?)
About my only unsurety is Benneh did push super hard for Maple EOD2 and D3 early. I'm tossing up the chances that Maple started D3 lolcatting but then realised there was a chance to actually come out alive and Benneh's was a planned bus.
As it stands, though, Vanta/Grr cannot be BOTH teammates to a wolf!Maple.
So the question is:
Would w!Maple give cards to Non-Wolves to grab cred more?
I'm not entirely as sold as I thought I'd be with this.
EnderWiggin
08-21-2024, 15:29
The interesting part is that maple has called me a wolf in the last 3 v/v games we played and or something and at some point doing literally 0 course correction starts feeling in bad faith. Like normally you'd think a person would go like "ok i misread that person every game maybe ill just kinda not try this time" but this guy really keeps doing it forever it seems.
w/w interaction iyam
imagine?
This sequence is hilarious if w/w.
But ngl that grr/Maple back and forth kinda feels unpairing.
Yes I got distracted shush.
EnderWiggin
08-21-2024, 15:32
Also Benneh + Maple were the two most-notable "Why has Syn put these so high" people that were pointed out.
Maple ignores the Syn wagon almost entirely. Votes at the end but basically hasn't mentioned it before that.
If Wisdom/Benneh were wolf with Syn/Maple then Maple was about the only one really active at EOD. Which vibes with Benneh trying to dismiss the sus on the cred-grabby vote.
Benneh also did a 180 on Maple after the self-resolving comment, as if that was a flag in front of a bull.
(And yes Maple has the most cred-grabby vote of D1.)
Anyway I'm rambly at this point and I'm very much living in the Maple/Wisdom world rn.
Will try to think of other worlds tomorrow in case I'm levelling myself, but need sleep.
Montmorency
08-21-2024, 21:04
btw monte specifically asked to not receive a card yesterday for a p. genuine reason imo.
call it a dumb micro ping but i dont think he does that w/w with maple (somewhat unlikely) but he defo doesnt do it if maple v and monte w.
You sure you're not trying to pocket? Not that I want you to SR me, but last EOD I did request a card, while giving fair warning that I might use a vig for a hero shot rather than a difference check.
Best to give it to me, as long as it's not a vig, because I know exactly who to vig and it's not consensus*. Otherwise, I don't know, 69 with Ender, who cares anymore.
*Alternatively I just vig the thunderdome survivor
To elaborate, I was mostly expecting Wisdom to go over that phase. So if t-Wisdom, I probably shoot knights, but if m-Wisdom, I probably shoot Sunbae.
If that sounds suboptimal, well, it seems to be the same calculation you applied more or less, and I think I've only ever been vig ~twice if you count SK. One of those times I wasted a slot-limited vig that was limited to the exact guy I pushed D1 and was planning to push D2, because I thought I could kill two birds with one stone (but didn't).
Like a sus list?
I'm still pending catchup but my overnight list that I reached was like:
Wisdom > Probably Maple > One of Grr/Insom?
But given Maple gave a card to Vanta I'm wondering if it's more like Wisdom > Maple > Vanta
Monty I think gets a lot of town cred if Wisdom does flip wolf given they've tried to fight the tide for days to get them voted out when no one else stuck out the tide like em.
Also I still think Monty's play is towny kinda.
Fypov if I am a wolf, grr should more or less literally always be a wolf, given I gave them a gun. An absolutely nuts thing to do in w/v worlds, especially given how tight the game is. Not to mention, the shot on sunbae floats between the "batshit" and "goldilocks" zones for a wolf vigi. So in that hypothetical ghe team would be wisdom maple grr or maple grr mont
I'm also annoyed, I *really* should have gotten dya to confirm my eod meta before they died because it I'd ostensibly a bad look if you don't view it through the lens of eod mechanics.
To repeat what I said prior:
You go into the eod. The wagons are 1 person you're v reading and a few wagons you don't really care about. The other two major wagons, rask + syn, each have pretty nice looking wagons. In order to promote a more active EoD, vote the cw to bring the wagons closer together and increase the probability of movement. When the day ends you either chill *or* you swap over to the major wagon to lock it in and remove the possibility of a chaotic cfd.
The vote positions of specifically newcomb and bop pretty significantly contributed to me more or less shrugging and calling it a coinflip.
I think an important note is that once mewcomb selects a slot for death that early into the game, it's more or less always going to die. Either newcomb dies in the night and the legacy is followed, or newcomb lives and just kills them the next day. I think my actions that eod are going to do very little in the gran scheme of things when viewed through that lens.
*anyway*
I see where insom is coming from with thinking we're in a world of 2. The world building is *incredibly* tight right now. I'm between splitting the difference or looking at the compromise at the moment. The lack of info is mildly rough and frankly idk if anyone alive can reasonably post themselves clear to me at this point (based on raw words today alone, I just don't see it). So I'm currently hedging a bit.
I'm continuing my rereading at a pace far worse than I'd like.
You sure you're not trying to pocket? Not that I want you to SR me, but last EOD I did request a card, while giving fair warning that I might use a vig for a hero shot rather than a difference check.
To elaborate, I was mostly expecting Wisdom to go over that phase. So if t-Wisdom, I probably shoot knights, but if m-Wisdom, I probably shoot Sunbae.
If that sounds suboptimal, well, it seems to be the same calculation you applied more or less, and I think I've only ever been vig ~twice if you count SK. One of those times I wasted a slot-limited vig that was limited to the exact guy I pushed D1 and was planning to push D2, because I thought I could kill two birds with one stone (but didn't).
Okay only this moment do I get what you mean by 69 with ender
Yes, that perhaps would have been decent, but us stacking isn't literally the worst I suppose.
Montmorency
08-21-2024, 21:13
Also Benneh + Maple were the two most-notable "Why has Syn put these so high" people that were pointed out.
Maple ignores the Syn wagon almost entirely. Votes at the end but basically hasn't mentioned it before that.
If Wisdom/Benneh were wolf with Syn/Maple then Maple was about the only one really active at EOD. Which vibes with Benneh trying to dismiss the sus on the cred-grabby vote.
Benneh also did a 180 on Maple after the self-resolving comment, as if that was a flag in front of a bull.
(And yes Maple has the most cred-grabby vote of D1.)
Anyway I'm rambly at this point and I'm very much living in the Maple/Wisdom world rn.
Will try to think of other worlds tomorrow in case I'm levelling myself, but need sleep.
What I think is, with both of you being PRs and ruling out the m-m world out of policy, one of you just about has to die tonight, right? If Maple is scum, you will certainly die, though it doesn't prove anything about Maple in itself if you die.
Montmorency
08-21-2024, 21:21
Story so far:
So Maple and Ender both gave Vanta cards last night, and Vanta can't say exactly what they were. Huh.
And Maple gave grr a card the night before - a vig - but grr didn't use it or report it until last night.
I can swallow a lot, but what the hell is going on here.
Maple , why gift Vanta and not me if both of us have been in your POE since D3/4? Why not gift Sunbae N3/4, since you had a solid town read on him?
EnderWiggin , why gift Vanta anything after posting the following last EOD?
I feel bad for the fact that I'm POEing Vanta harder as time goes on. But also yeah they're definitely slipping into priority solving slot for me.
Especially if I stick to my gut on Spew Reads.
You gave the most LHF/UTR player left, who was also in your POE, a card.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLLfXtq_Uog
grr , I can in theory understand targeting Sunbae. You POEd him, and he's a more difficult ouster than Wisdom. It was a bad choice with Wisdom still in play, but it's conceivable. But then, why not use your shot N4?
[I read your "the card was backup" post but my brain can't conceive of what that means mechanically. Like, it wasn't a vig but a chance to absorb a dead player's power, and you absorbed Arctic's, who had an unused vig? Could you paraphrase the instructions?]
Everyone's claims today are sending me. What are the odds of Vanta getting stacked gifts and grr holstering a vig. I want us to either have a perfect game from now on (or we lose), or just lose outright this round.
Arctic shot stett, right?
Like, that's the only thing that makes sense.
Thought stett defending rask om a 3p flip was tmi.
Idk does that like matter?
Killed bop for having the best solve and as the player most likely to catch Ben the next day, something like that.
Ben was meant to go deep, then?
The kill on ladd was so opportunistic but I can see it as ~safe enough I suppose, if you're making the snap choice and plan on shoving the blame onto dya
There's definitely something here idk
Montmorency
08-21-2024, 21:35
grr, Insomnia, my feeling on Insomnia is that unless it's some kind of sheer power scum team like Maple-Ender-Insom, he has of the living players the best voting record, good engagement with the thread, good tone, and no bad associatives with neb that I can remember. Wisdom preflip ordains well for him.
My feeling on Maple/Ender is that if Wisdom is town, Ender was the deepscum. We have pretty much 100% confirmation that Maple is indeed an inventor, whether or not he's anything else, and pretty good confidence that Ender did copy his power to become an inventor himself (originally being an upgrader). If they're both scum, this is true fancy play, having very odd Mafia PRs in an inventer and an upgrader (VERY odd role spread for mafs) both hardclaim on D2 and coopt the town leaders and just never die. Legendary audacity if they're both scum, and legendary play even if Maple alone is scum. ggwp Mafia victory. So I think Ender alone being scum is the most plausible, after both just being town. Ender is mostly cleared by Wisdom flipping red, so with that preflip in mind I can't waste time suspecting him.
Even if the recent claims are skibidi toilet gibberish.
So as I said, all that strictly limits my POE, notwithstanding that I have reasons not to POE anyone other than Wisdom. If Wisdom is a hit, I may just lock Ender and Insom through F3, and if not, it doesn't matter.
As to the game structure, 17-1-4 seems unusually anti-Mafia for a modern setup. I don't recall that Visor gives LYLO alerts as a rule, so it's best to assume 5 maf, lost or not. If one's lost, I might be fated to endgame with t-Ender and get MLed.
I can't keep all the antipair worlds being presented straight. But for now I guess I can jive with the following (antipairs) in descending order:
Wisdom-Insomnia
Wisdom-Ender
Ender-Maple
Wisdom-Vanta
Insomnia-grr
Of course, that would leave exclusively grr-Maple, which sounds absurd enough that I'd want to throw the game. Maple-Ender and Maple-grr are so bogus to me that if Maple is scum I choose to lose.
I find Ender-Vanta-Wisdom hard to integrate with how both slots have related to Wisdom. Is there anything linking Vanta and Ender together besides last night's gift?
Once more returning to Wisdom-Vanta-grr, which :shrug:
Montmorency
08-21-2024, 21:50
Arctic shot stett, right?
Like, that's the only thing that makes sense.
Thought stett defending rask om a 3p flip was tmi.
Idk does that like matter?
Killed bop for having the best solve and as the player most likely to catch Ben the next day, something like that.
Ben was meant to go deep, then?
The kill on ladd was so opportunistic but I can see it as ~safe enough I suppose, if you're making the snap choice and plan on shoving the blame onto dya
There's definitely something here idk
What is this in reference to, my post above?
Would w!Maple give cards to Non-Wolves to grab cred more?
I'm not entirely as sold as I thought I'd be with this.
Maple's history is:
Self
Arctic
Jan
grr
Vanta
I guess a Maple-grr team could just be working a narrative. Y'know, Maple gifted something to a partner, it was no good or grr quietly used it N4, N5 was just killing townies, they need a story for what happened with the gift, so they make up some convoluted excuse.
In that case Arctic gift would be a lie and the only confirmed instance of Maple gifting a townie would be Jan, which while still a very intense gesture, could be part of Maple gambiting to buy time.
Alternatively, maybe the scum PR gains unlocks from using its power, but then the same could apply to you.
But then again again, Sunbae's last leans were:
Maple town
Ender town
Grr town
Insomnia town
So why the hell wouldn't Mafia kill an actual PR? Which is a then again again again. Sunbae wasn't so strong that SPK could justify skipping one of Maple-Ender, and I've lost track of what conclusion any of that could lead to.
Maybe that Sunbae is plausibly not a Mafia kill, because there's no advantage to killing someone just for POEing Wisdom-Vanta, which most of the list was doing at the time.
Montmorency
08-21-2024, 21:51
Maybe that Sunbae is plausibly not a Mafia kill, because there's no advantage to killing someone just for POEing Wisdom-Vanta, which most of the list was doing at the time.
I mean in the exact case that it's Wisdom-Vanta, at that. If they're not the team, or just Wisdom, there's nothing gained at all.
Story so far:
(1.) So Maple and Ender both gave Vanta cards last night, and Vanta can't say exactly what they were. Huh.
And Maple gave grr a card the night before - a vig - but grr didn't use it or report it until last night.
I can swallow a lot, but what the hell is going on here.
Maple , why gift Vanta and not me if both of us have been in your POE since D3/4? Why not gift Sunbae N3/4, since you had a solid town read on him?
EnderWiggin , why gift Vanta anything after posting the following last EOD?
You gave the most LHF/UTR player left, who was also in your POE, a card.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLLfXtq_Uog
grr , I can in theory understand targeting Sunbae. You POEd him, and he's a more difficult ouster than Wisdom. It was a bad choice with Wisdom still in play, but it's conceivable. But then, why not use your shot N4?
[I read your "the card was backup" post but my brain can't conceive of what that means mechanically. Like, it wasn't a vig but a chance to absorb a dead player's power, and you absorbed Arctic's, who had an unused vig? Could you paraphrase the instructions?]
Everyone's claims today are sending me. What are the odds of Vanta getting stacked gifts and grr holstering a vig. I want us to either have a perfect game from now on (or we lose), or just lose outright this round.
My claim is pretty straight forward, even when arctics role is a bit weird.
I don't have time right now to check what Vanta said about what he received, but I knew exactly what my card was when i received it.
I was able to copy the ability of a dead player due to the card Maple gave to me.
The dead player I targetted in the night i received the card was Arctic. His ability is tracker, and if two town players get eliminated back to back, he would lose that ability and become a 1-shot vigilante. That has not occured yet when he died, but when I copied it, it did. So I ended up getting a vigshot, yes.
Don't know what you are talking about holstering, I didn't holster anything. (I never holstered anything in my life btw. I am a notorious buttonclicker lol, ok i didnt click a button here, but you know what i mean).
EnderWiggins you asked what i thought d1 about benneh and sunbae. Well I thought benneh would have had a more joyful entry if he was wolfing with his friends d1, that was it basically.
So to make this simple. n4 i used the card. n5 i used the new ability i gained from using the card before. there was no holstering. It just took 2 phases.
insomnia
08-21-2024, 23:06
Arctic shot stett, right?
Like, that's the only thing that makes sense.
Thought stett defending rask om a 3p flip was tmi.
Idk does that like matter?
Killed bop for having the best solve and as the player most likely to catch Ben the next day, something like that.
Ben was meant to go deep, then?
The kill on ladd was so opportunistic but I can see it as ~safe enough I suppose, if you're making the snap choice and plan on shoving the blame onto dya
There's definitely something here idk
there is no way arctic made any of those shots out of his volition
at best you can argue he was redirected imo, but someone made a post at some point saying arctic was essentially a tracker with a weird kp that wasn't activated at the time of his death, and that I tend to believe since i'm 99% sure he's done none of those kills (i'd say 100% but that would be mech i guess. which i don't have)
insomnia
08-21-2024, 23:14
i will be teaching the art of useless / unfortunate posting after this game
hit me up if in need of guidance
anyway, im kinda stuck. mont is making some decent points
i think i explained where my head was at in the posting i've done earlier pretty clearly. the most now would be to re-eval, but as im a selfish lazy washed up player uhhhhhhh
idk i don't see this phase as anything else than just lunching wisdom. Then again that ladd flashwagon happened so i guess being more informed in case we wanna swap should be good. but would i do it even it i know it's good? hmmmm
insomnia
08-21-2024, 23:22
I feel like there were a lot of people expressing v reads in between the wagons?
Like I was repping a V spew read on Wisdom for a few days before I decided it was a bad read.
You kept swapping votes between her and knights tho /shrug
1. I'm not inverter like Monty was claiming and Knights is now following up.
Also I think inverter is town just from how their actions have played out.
2. Fine I'll claim,
I was enhancer. Tried to hit Stett N1. That didn't work for some reason I'm still not sure of.
I was inverted N3.
I now can copy a power. I copied Maple's power (I know how it reads now which is part of why today opened with me townreading them.) and realised after doing so that this could have been a good way to check Wisdom and/or fish in the unclaimed for people.
But one of my villa reads will have a card tonight in addition to the card Maple's giving out.
EnderWiggin
Lets go over this. Do you have any info or indication of what your role actually *did*?
N1, you targeted stett, attempting to enhance her action. Why target stett?
N2, you holstered?
N3, you holstered? Your role changed from "Enhancer" to "Copier" overnight, as you'd be informed at SoD4.
N4, you targeted me to copy?
D5, you targeted Venta with a card, which presumably gave a protective effect. Which one?
N5, you holstered?
And today is D6.
~~~
Okay, so can you *very specifically* claim every aspect of your role? All restrictions, stipulations, etc. And a quick thought process on why you did what you did.
~~~
And just so I don't get no u'd
D1 - self, pgo - was looking for KP
N1 - inverted, role changed from "blind joat" into "inventor"
D2 - Arctic, unknown - was looking for a hide/commute/etc in order to get arctic alive through the night and be able to back up my claim
D3 - Jan, medic - was looking for a protection/vest/etc in order to hopefully get Jan to live the night
D4 - grr, role backup (vigi) - was looking for something like a hood, or an investigate, or something to get more info
D5 - venta, ability modifier - was looking specifically for a cop action.
D6 - Today
My restriction, in essence, is that i can choose a card but do not know what it does.
~~~
Vanta Black
What were the 2 cards you received, and what specifically did each of them do?
~~~
Wisdom
just want to confirm that you are NOT inverted?
Does anyone else wanna claim inverted?
me n1, jan n2, ender n3
We don't seem to have a n4 or n5 inversion. There's an ISO i need to check for info wrt this and will report back later. (busy atm)
~~~
I think we can very safely believe in three worlds:
The inverter was V
The inverter was disloyal
The inverter did not exist as a player, and is purely mechanical
(the more sinister fourth option is that it's a wolf, and the wolves used it *very* weird)
Montmorency
08-22-2024, 01:08
So to make this simple. n4 i used the card. n5 i used the new ability i gained from using the card before. there was no holstering. It just took 2 phases.
I get it now. The claim is specific enough that, as with Maple and Ender, you would need a lot of creativity and guts to fake it. You+Maple if coordinating these claims deserve to win I guess. But then it would have to be Wisdom-Vanta at a minimum, outing themselves EOD3 alongside neb for no rational reason.
Shocking number of killing roles in this game tbh, unless there were full docs that just died early (e.g. Newcomb). Also, is this the first role that we know of that transforms conditionally on its own? Because that's similar Maple's suggestion with the inverter, that there is none and inversion was happening on a mechanical schedule rather than to PR action.
But Maple. I still don't understand - why Vanta at all? Why gift someone in your POE?
I had him much higher before reevaluating after EoD yesterday.
Montmorency
08-22-2024, 13:26
I'm not inverted o7
I don't know how you were diverted
You were perverted, too
I don't know how you were inverted
No one alerted you
:music:
Montmorency
08-22-2024, 13:35
I had him much higher before reevaluating after EoD yesterday.
Here's how I got confused.
***INCOMPLETE WORLDBUILDING***
Vanta Black - Does not appear to be playing the game like a wolf. Spew is sort of a crapshoot but I am considering clearing vanta on posts, depending. I want *extra* feedback on what people think about vanta here, please and thanks.l
Your current read, I guess.
When compared to sunbae and insom, who aren't like *that* villagery in the grand scheme of things, the issue is that there are *several* slots that are varying degrees of just mindfuckingly wolfy or deranged in this game. We can debate the specifics later, and I *am* down to start with a lower effort wagon, but it was more or less ben>dolby>wisdom>knights=vanta=mont
The last time you mentioned vanta was D4, and you had him POE congruent to me.
So to be clear, you moved him up (but not me) over D5, and as of SOD6 you had him high, but now want to move him back down???
EnderWiggin
08-22-2024, 15:51
I do not know what to think about the lack of activity in the last 24 hours lmao.
EnderWiggin
08-22-2024, 15:54
Fypov if I am a wolf, grr should more or less literally always be a wolf, given I gave them a gun. An absolutely nuts thing to do in w/v worlds, especially given how tight the game is. Not to mention, the shot on sunbae floats between the "batshit" and "goldilocks" zones for a wolf vigi. So in that hypothetical ghe team would be wisdom maple grr or maple grr mont
I'm also annoyed, I *really* should have gotten dya to confirm my eod meta before they died because it I'd ostensibly a bad look if you don't view it through the lens of eod mechanics.
To repeat what I said prior:
You go into the eod. The wagons are 1 person you're v reading and a few wagons you don't really care about. The other two major wagons, rask + syn, each have pretty nice looking wagons. In order to promote a more active EoD, vote the cw to bring the wagons closer together and increase the probability of movement. When the day ends you either chill *or* you swap over to the major wagon to lock it in and remove the possibility of a chaotic cfd.
The vote positions of specifically newcomb and bop pretty significantly contributed to me more or less shrugging and calling it a coinflip.
I think an important note is that once mewcomb selects a slot for death that early into the game, it's more or less always going to die. Either newcomb dies in the night and the legacy is followed, or newcomb lives and just kills them the next day. I think my actions that eod are going to do very little in the gran scheme of things when viewed through that lens.
*anyway*
I see where insom is coming from with thinking we're in a world of 2. The world building is *incredibly* tight right now. I'm between splitting the difference or looking at the compromise at the moment. The lack of info is mildly rough and frankly idk if anyone alive can reasonably post themselves clear to me at this point (based on raw words today alone, I just don't see it). So I'm currently hedging a bit.
I'm continuing my rereading at a pace far worse than I'd like.
Re: Giving Grr a gun
I know how the power works. You giving em a gun is about as much guesswork as it is intent.
And I don't think you can be in a wolf team with Grr/Vanta as your 2 wolf buddies.
So if you are wolf you have intentionally given town a card. Which... honestly given your early claim is basically necessary. Giving partners cards too much would be over-reaching.
I also don't think you knew that you'd given Grr a gun. Because your daystart implies you thought it was me/Vanta who might have shot.
Which honestly means I really don't think Grr would be a partner of yours?
Every time I think on this further I'm unpairing you and Grr more lmao.
EnderWiggin
08-22-2024, 15:55
What I think is, with both of you being PRs and ruling out the m-m world out of policy, one of you just about has to die tonight, right? If Maple is scum, you will certainly die, though it doesn't prove anything about Maple in itself if you die.
Maple scum killing me would be sweet release tbh.
EnderWiggin
08-22-2024, 15:58
EnderWiggin , why gift Vanta anything after posting the following last EOD?
You gave the most LHF/UTR player left, who was also in your POE, a card.
I read up on minor arcana meanings and gave Vanta one which meant "Replenishment and renewal of peace." Which didn't feel like it was gonna ever kill.
And the intent? Well I was torn between townreading Vanta from earlier and POEing them so I figured if I gave em a card and see how they reacted it might tell me something about their alignment.
EnderWiggin
08-22-2024, 16:00
EnderWiggins you asked what i thought d1 about benneh and sunbae. Well I thought benneh would have had a more joyful entry if he was wolfing with his friends d1, that was it basically.
Ty. I just was reading over it and found it a weirdly specific post. The kind I occasionally see from wolves about partners because they feel the need to talk about em.
EnderWiggin
08-22-2024, 16:01
You kept swapping votes between her and knights tho /shrug
Talking about before EOD.
EnderWiggin
08-22-2024, 16:11
EnderWiggin
Lets go over this. Do you have any info or indication of what your role actually *did*?
N1, you targeted stett, attempting to enhance her action. Why target stett?
N2, you holstered?
N3, you holstered? Your role changed from "Enhancer" to "Copier" overnight, as you'd be informed at SoD4.
N4, you targeted me to copy?
D5, you targeted Venta with a card, which presumably gave a protective effect. Which one?
N5, you holstered?
And today is D6.
~~~
Okay, so can you *very specifically* claim every aspect of your role? All restrictions, stipulations, etc. And a quick thought process on why you did what you did.
I don't have any particular info on what my original role ever did. Visor gave some generic examples where I might make an insane cop sane, for ex, but didn't give me specifics when I theorised about roles in the game.
N1 - I targetted Stett because between her and Sheep they were my biggest townreads. I ended up picking Stett because idk vibes. But I wanted to use it on a hard townread 100%
N2 - I couldn't use my ability.
N3 - I honestly just forgot. I was half mad and half tired. Shrug.
N4 - Targetted you to Copy
D5 - Gave Vanta a card. Trying for something protective with the choice of arcana.
N5 - Couldn't target.
---
My original ability only had 2 shots, and I couldn't use them on consecutive nights or on the same person twice.
EnderWiggin
08-22-2024, 16:12
D5 - venta, ability modifier - was looking specifically for a cop action.
Wait wait.
Hold up.
How did you know which of the two cards you gave Vanta?
EnderWiggin
08-22-2024, 16:16
As to the game structure, 17-1-4 seems unusually anti-Mafia for a modern setup. I don't recall that Visor gives LYLO alerts as a rule, so it's best to assume 5 maf, lost or not. If one's lost, I might be fated to endgame with t-Ender and get MLed.
Ouch.
Players Votes
Wisdom 3 (Montmorency, grr, EnderWiggin)
Montmorency 1 (Wisdom)
whatthistextdo
Wait wait.
Hold up.
How did you know which of the two cards you gave Vanta?
Inductive reasoning. If the card I selected is a medic, visor is trolling.
Noted on everything.
Frustrating that most people aren't posting enough for me to get good reads out there
Here's how I got confused.
Your current read, I guess.
The last time you mentioned vanta was D4, and you had him POE congruent to me.
So to be clear, you moved him up (but not me) over D5, and as of SOD6 you had him high, but now want to move him back down???
Ah to be clear, that is most wolfy to least wolfy as of my discussion with Jan when I was jailed. Knights and wisdom got swapped, and those three were killed.
You vanta and wisdom are the only three survivors of that list so unless that's the exact team I need to reeval.
Which I have. Again.
insomnia
08-22-2024, 20:15
so
who's gonna be our beacon of productivity
Wisdom are those gonna be the final words? you're just taking the lunch?
Well hopefully its a hit!
Montmorency
08-22-2024, 21:59
One of you inventors please set me up with an investigative.
Vanta, can you give us a heads up on what your action tonight is?
I'm kind of just going around in circles right now.
There's so many *maybes*. We need vanta to claim mechs, wisdom needs to do *literally anything*. I've been posturing *extreme willingness* to go anywhere but there today so not seeing, I dunno, any galvinization whatsoever from that fact is bothersome.
There's the issue of the unaccounted kill, there's a real possibility we've had saves so far this game, there's the rough *impossibility* of an arso except in a couple very weird and very specific cases. There's the fact that of 2 players are doused, in one of those hypotheticals, we lose unless we hit kp today - which we have very little info on.
I have some good speculation about various things here but I need vanta's claims before I have enough of a picture in order to begin making proper deductions.
The net is rapidly closing in with eod approaching so we're more or less left banking on this being a hit, unless something happens.
In general, my feelings is that the wolves had 2 goons, an invest, a gated vigi, and *some role* incentivized to target wolves. It can't be an ungated role. It's probably motivator. 1 shot, maybe 2. Their vigi is either even, or x shots, or we've gotten a *lot* of saves. Given the player count and village having access to let's say 5 kills.
Wolves should have access to roughly the same number, based on the game being 22p. I'm think rask's role was either full sk or maybe some kind of survivor role with access to upwards to 2-3 kills.
For the sake of post-game let's call the setup
Tracker/vig "joat"
Painter
2x vigi
Jk/1x vigi
Dolby strong-willed Jan, mostlikely. That, or ascetic but doing that would be weird. Not the inverter, he or knights always claim it. Or a klepto/gravedigger who dug up arctic and tracked jan to dya; d3 target arctic, n3 track jan to dya. Or full backup who backed up arctic, though this possibility is nearly impossible (dolby has dozens of games on MU at least + cohosted a game where universal town backup was a role + would have just claimed this information) this would imply that either dolby digs up all PRs (which he *really* should have claimed) or that arctic was the first PR killed. Still, i think dolby claims all this before dying so its unlikely. Last possibility is a role that targets a player learns what all of their previous visits were. Stett, dya, dya.
1 more PR, tops. Either a dead inverter in sunbae/gemma that stacked on the other + stacked on dya, or the inverter is wolf, or the inverter isn't a village role.
2 goons
Vigi (even, 4x, full, nonconsec, etc.)
Utility if this is the inverter it is either disloyal (implying ender v), or Wolves were very conservative with it and used it on me/Jan or it is a cop/inverter (n1 me n2 Jan n3 ender , was Ben and died or ran out of shots or has gone to ground and is only targeting wolves who arent claiming)
Maybe a cop/rb hybrid? Maybe something more exotic? Or no RB at all because we have too many day actions + the vigi is disrupted by stacking with any action.
---
Dunno. My read on the setup is that wisdom is fake in like most of the worlds that make sense. The only way we have an arso is a) an arso that targets during the day b) an arso who was motivated and doused/ignited the same night OR doused twice n1.
Kill NC, douse stett and bop. Shoot arctic.
Or
Kill NC, shoot arctic with the faction, motivated vigi shoots stett+bop.
Or
Wolves have 2 roles with KP mechs that needed to be turned on. 2 consecutive non-v votes turned on a wolf 1x vigi + they had a ENV. Who was either Ben or we got saves n4. No one is claiming a save for that night, which means in this scenario a team of 3 is out of KP and either a ff w/ no arso is a troll or fake. This is the best case scenario in the team of 3 world.
---
Wolves *should* have access to some kind of disruption though.
So let's say hypothetically ender is a wolf. My theory is thus:
A) motivator. EN, maaaaybe 1x. Inverted N3 into copier. Motivated a vigi (Ben most likely) N2, copied me N4.
B) same as above, but motivated an arso.
C) some other scenario that I don't have enough info to envision
---
The most likely ender!v world is one where wolves have an arctic foil and are out of KP. Wisdom is either trolled or w in that world. Wisdom+2.
The W worlds are either the same as above and their cop turned into 1x vigi and is dry + Ben was ENV or x shot that was motivated and is now dry or the arso worlds. Inverted from motivator into copier, or was a previously unknown PR like cop or rber or *whatever* and flipped into copier. Most likely partners with vanta+1.
Anyway
I wrote this entire post on mobile so the formating is gonna be soooooo fucked
Vanta Black
08-22-2024, 22:47
I do not know what to think about the lack of activity in the last 24 hours lmao.
Sorry, it was my birthday and I took it real easy, as far as I could (had to work though).
Vanta Black
08-22-2024, 22:47
One of you inventors please set me up with an investigative.
Vanta, can you give us a heads up on what your action tonight is?
Unless I get some other card I don't have an action tonight. I have a modifier.
Would you kindly full claim the two cards including what each are called and who you targeted last night? Many thanks
A note on the above unhinged ramblings, I forgot to mention that given no ignition arso!wolves are either dry dolby was a douse, or grr is not wolf. 1 extra kill last night wins the game for a team of three, so grr+2 including an arso w/ 1 douse wins it. A team of 2 would have to wait and we still lose if we don't hit here but ya know it's pog
so
who's gonna be our beacon of productivity
Wisdom are those gonna be the final words? you're just taking the lunch?
yeah hi. sure ill jump through a few hoops so it doesnt look like i ghosted the game. can you explain why umm, you dipped several EoDs (not sure if it was 2 or 3) without notification of leaving? and why and how you came to the vanta-v-read in detail.
@didistetter i... ummm... i'm sorry lmfao. idk im crying and laughing at the same time forgive me for my sins lol.
insomnia
08-22-2024, 23:36
yeah hi. sure ill jump through a few hoops so it doesnt look like i ghosted the game. can you explain why umm, you dipped several EoDs (not sure if it was 2 or 3) without notification of leaving? and why and how you came to the vanta-v-read in detail.
@didistetter i... ummm... i'm sorry lmfao. idk im crying and laughing at the same time forgive me for my sins lol.
cuz im slep
as for the vanta read, i've made an iso of them and explained in full detail
insomnia
08-22-2024, 23:36
Vote: Wisdom
i guess
ok so.
the easiest name to start with is vanta black cuz they have low content. i'll give my current thoughts as they are and then skim their iso because i remember it being pretty low content
this is a name that i don't think is a wolf. in my world, the wolves either did fakeclaiming (so wisdom / maple, at least 1 there) or they did ~nothing. especially in terms of EoD1. we already know syn and benneh weren't there and apart from knights, i doubt a wolf was present.
which is why vanta should be an easy sort fmpov, they fit that profile
except, they seemed villagery to me. it's not exactly impossible to be out of it and be a wolf (cuz this is what im saying this team is doing if it's not maple / wisdom), but there's an undertone of genuineness that i didn't pick up in their wolfgame. they just seem to be going with the flow of things and figuring things out without caring what the thread thinks of it, which is kinda opposite to what knights is doing imo. knights just seems 10x more calculated and having TMI than vanta, in that i really dont believe his pushes are real in the context they're being thrown around. he just seems to be contrarian for the sake of it and to powerwolf, whereas from vanta i pick up more of a vibe of "idkwhat'sgoingonmybffjill". their solving isn't directed to the thread as "look, im anticonsensus", whereas knights just goes balls deep into every push on the top names while having extremely poor reasoning and at times where they don't make sense to make (jan / ladd didn't make sense to be so strong at those points in time imo, as neither do i view myself as the right person to look at today with wisdom / maple unflipped and sunbae still alive despite him doing less than me imo)
admittedly, there's a chance im underestimating vanta black, but i don't think so. as a wolf they're just a lot more stilted and in here they seem really care free and not like they have a target on their back, which is what i expect they'd feel like. but ofc im gonna recheck
like. u didnt quote a single post to explain what u mean so ill just go by your words here.
so this their wolfgame: https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/search.php?do=finduser&userid=10475&searchthreadid=45636&contenttype=vBForum_Post&showposts=1&order=ascending&postid=8045547
i dont see how... ummm. like they wouldnt be going with "the flow of things" or being genuine here in their wolfgame? reads p natural to me?
like there is a big difference between what stetters meta case on newcomb d1 was and yours on vanta. i understood the first one. i never understood the latter. lol
sleep is fine ofc i fell asleep when rask died too, but it felt so abrupt every time lol, but this point is like, w/e ig.
so like uh. do i rly have to stay awake till 3 am just to see the endgame credits becuz im not sure i hate myself enough for that?
majority disabled is cruel technology tbh who invented that lol.
insomnia
08-23-2024, 00:13
so like uh. do i rly have to stay awake till 3 am just to see the endgame credits becuz im not sure i hate myself enough for that?
nope, go sleep
i'll re-read vanta's iso and explain, but the stark difference is that they were mega awkward in that one and were very logical, in here they did a lot of irrational things and they don't care as much about the appearance of their posting / voting
can you see the difference now?
read her first vote and how detailed it is and logic oriented compared to the time they dropped a drive-by read of bop. they mentioned they wolfread him and that she'll come back to it later to quote the posts, described it as a vibe thing.
idk, does her iso there not read like omega awkward? it does to me /shrug
insomnia
08-23-2024, 00:14
i don't really like to apply meta reads to people i don't have first hand experience with, but they just seem like the type that it's safe to do so
i hope they are just snowing me though
i particularly think with how logic oriented they are as a wolf, the fact they were considering dya when it was clear to everyone they were a villa is a really good sign imo
insomnia
08-23-2024, 00:16
idk if i have a right to be upset with wisdom if she's a villa here, but she legit posted a PoE at SoD, implied would do more and then had 2-3 posts that were one liners
i get she was sus'd all game, but today it didn't feel like to me that we bulldozered her or anything
hopefully she's just a wolf that thinks she lived too long and is happy to eat the lunch now after delaying for ages
Players Votes
Wisdom 4 (Montmorency, grr, EnderWiggin, insomnia)
Montmorency 1 (Wisdom)
whatthistextdo
insomnia
08-23-2024, 00:18
idk if i have a right to be upset with wisdom if she's a villa here, but she legit posted a PoE at SoD, implied would do more and then had 2-3 posts that were one liners
i get she was sus'd all game, but today it didn't feel like to me that we bulldozered her or anything
hopefully she's just a wolf that thinks she lived too long and is happy to eat the lunch now after delaying for ages
i mean that i feel like we gave her the space today to do anything, we didn't jump on her with a hundred questions but she just... doesn't care
oh well
hoping she's a villa so it can be over tho
insomnia
08-23-2024, 00:20
vote: dyachei
I feel like I have to pick one on account of the claims.
this post is good because from wolves' pov, rask is the infinitely easier option because they have all the reasons to be voting him
not to mention rask claimed additional shots. from wolves' pov it's 2 villa vigs claiming, who do you kill? the one who has shots, or the one who doesn't?
nope, go sleep
i'll re-read vanta's iso and explain, but the stark difference is that they were mega awkward in that one and were very logical, in here they did a lot of irrational things and they don't care as much about the appearance of their posting / voting
can you see the difference now?
read her first vote and how detailed it is and logic oriented compared to the time they dropped a drive-by read of bop. they mentioned they wolfread him and that she'll come back to it later to quote the posts, described it as a vibe thing.
idk, does her iso there not read like omega awkward? it does to me /shrug
what im seeing is they werent inquisitive there. and they WERE inquisitive in there towngame: https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/search.php?do=finduser&userid=10475&searchthreadid=45288&contenttype=vBForum_Post&showposts=1&order=ascending&postid=7967904
and they arent really inquisitve here.
they are just like, fitting the profile of a guy who pops in occasionally to provide the bare minimum of "solving" input but you can barely see they *care* about figuring anything out. becuz i think they arent.
just feels like a super wolfy iso to me.
but like, honestly, i cant really figure this out completely cuz i have. like. 4 wolves. and there are only 3 wolves max (probs 3). so uh. like obviously im wrong somewhere. like there is deadass 4 people when they flip town im gonna be like u wot now mate?! how lol.
nya gn. cya.
insomnia
08-23-2024, 00:31
i went back to read some of their posting and i guess i just can't see it
im not saying i can't be wrong cuz this game is spooky as it is, but im just browsing some posts here and looking at their wolfgame and they just seem really mega stilted there, as opposed to here
another thing im witnessing is that they were really apologetic about their actions that game and they are obviously playing it extremely low this game and not doing that? which makes it feel like they aren't wolfing
fully possible im reading into the wrong things but still, the awkwardness thing i just can't undo
there's just a bluntness in some of the posts they're making and the questions they're asking just make me think there are wheels spinning in their head
i didn't wanna say this line cuz i can be wrong, especially since im really poorly informed about everything in the thread, but if you don't see it i guess it's just experience speaking when gauging different archetypes
hope they fool'd me cuz im admittedly underestimating them
insomnia
08-23-2024, 00:34
it's funny cuz im obviously wrong somewhere. i just don't know who that is
even if wisdom is wolf, idek where to go. idk if it means a 3 wolf team or a 2 man one
i think that i'd ease up on mont by quiteee a lot. even before pushing her today, he's had the same initiative on d2 and flashwagonned from both the vig claims, which is a mega good look. so i'd probably clear him
but i feel like we might just endgame here and the team is some fucked up combo of maple / ender / +1
at which point you just move on
insomnia
08-23-2024, 00:35
maybe i shouldn't say that given wisdom legit just gave up, but i fear that villas are in more of a habit to do that for inexplicable reasons than wolves
hoping for the best
Vanta Black
08-23-2024, 00:42
Would you kindly full claim the two cards including what each are called and who you targeted last night? Many thanks
A note on the above unhinged ramblings, I forgot to mention that given no ignition arso!wolves are either dry dolby was a douse, or grr is not wolf. 1 extra kill last night wins the game for a team of three, so grr+2 including an arso w/ 1 douse wins it. A team of 2 would have to wait and we still lose if we don't hit here but ya know it's pog
Okay, I kinda don't want to name the cards, no one has named their cards yet. You know what you gave me, and based on its action and what you said I believe it was the action modifier, specifically an "accelerator" that makes actions happen before other actions.
The other one was a protection. I used it on myself.
I have specifically named what cards I both recieved and gave out. Flavour claiming and discussion is allowed in this game.
insomnia
08-23-2024, 00:47
idk, if you have strong thoughts on my PoE
otherwise not sure what to ask. im pretty set on the resolve i have now, i just don't know the order
im debating just going full lazy mode until i see maple and wisdom flip, not sure what else there needs to be done
i was reading back and found this
you guys are to blame for not activating my prime... turning the SWITCH
insomnia
08-23-2024, 00:52
i was reading back and i feel dumb
why did the wolves not kill jan again? the night he "confirmed" maple?
if jan dies, maple dies immediately after, maybe he even gets executed by jan
manti, you can answer this since your PoV is more appropriate
insomnia
08-23-2024, 00:54
Ftr I think Wisdom is ~also good.
Mostly cause that last night interaction with me felt very much like wasting my time with questions when I am obviously the one who most has very limited chance to do anything in thread. And the more time I'm not doing any solving the easier it is to push me later.
meh this post is kinda bad
i was reading back and i feel dumb
why did the wolves not kill jan again? the night he "confirmed" maple?
if jan dies, maple dies immediately after, maybe he even gets executed by jan
manti, you can answer this since your PoV is more appropriate
Claimed uninteractable doc/rb. Either you kill Jan, or you have to dodge the jail each night. Plus the utility of a hood.
insomnia
08-23-2024, 00:59
alright, guise, DO NOT SWAP for the life of you
unrelated, but man i feel really bad for giving ladd too much shit. i wouldn't have voted him that day he died, but it always feels like my posting gives light to pushing him
our views were incredibly similar but i like to keep him on hot coals to be sure
probably the first time we have that close of a worldview. hopefully it's correct too lol
insomnia
08-23-2024, 00:59
Claimed uninteractable doc/rb. Either you kill Jan, or you have to dodge the jail each night. Plus the utility of a hood.
good answer
insomnia
08-23-2024, 01:01
i hope wisdom is a wolf
if she is, i really think it's just 1 wolf alive with her, and that one is not mont imo
really messy game y'all
insomnia
08-23-2024, 01:06
i guess i'd kill ender next if wisdom is a wolf?
DAY ARSO (douse allowed after igniting)
d1 stett
d2 bop
n2 ignite
d3 ladd or any (ladd unlikely, actions proxiable)
d4 sunbae or any (or gemma if vanta save)
d5 sunbae or any (or gemma if vanta save)
n5 ignite? ladd doused d3, sunbae doused d4, d5 kill missing IMPOSSIBLE, UNLESS SUNBAE+GEMMA+LADD DOUSED AND VANTA SAVED
d6 any - bcw, ladd and sunbae were doused OR cannot douse after ign, meaning d3 d4 missing, d5 live, d6 douse, n6 ignite 2 ftw. (4-2 -> 1-2) OR Vanta saved, 0 doused, d6 any, n6 ignite 1 ftw (4-2 -> 2-2) OR cannot douse after ignite
DAY ARSO (douse not allowed after igniting)
d1 stett
d2 bop
n2 ignite
d3 *no action*
d4 sunbae or any (or gemma if vanta saved)
d5 sunbae or any (or gemma if vanta saved)
n5 ignite ftw, IMPOSSIBLE, UNLESS SUNBAE + GEMMA DOUSED AND VANTA SAVED + grr v ; w!grr: doused sunbae + gemma + fake!vigi + vanta saved ; no ignite: failed to proxy action, dolby doused d4 OR sunbae+gemma doused + vanta saved
d6 *no action* or douse any
n6 *no action* or ignite ftw
NIGHT ARSO
n1 stett/bop
n2 stett/bop + ignite *(motivated)* ; ignite (secondary vig kill on stett/bop)
n3 any (dolby stack)
n4 any (sunbae stack)
n5 ignite ftw if both douses alive (sunbea stack + save) ; ignite ftw w!grr (dolby stack + save) ; no ignite (dolby stack + grr v)
n6, a: previously ignited, no extra KP available, proceed to f5 ; b: ignite ftw (any 1 doused)
ENV
n1 *no action*
n2 stett+bop *(motivated)* ; secondary vig kill on stett/bop
n3 *no action*
n4 *no action* (most lilkely ENV!ben, killed n3)
n5 *no action*
XSHOT (or full) VIGI
n1 stett or *no action*
n2 stett+bop *(motivated)* ; secondary vig kill on stett/bop
n3 dya or *no action*
n4 *no action* (either out of shots or holstered)
n5 sunbae or vanta save or *no action*
INVERTER
n1 Maple
n2 Jan
n3 Ender
n4 *no action* or dyachei
n5 *no action* or sunbae/gemma
Possibilities:
A) dolby inverter, only works if role somehow gains information on their targets, improbable based on handling of my slot.
B) stett/bop inverter, Ender lying, w/w with vanta
C) gemma or sunbae inverter, 3shot or stacked onto dyachei.
D) not a role, cards flip at set times or random.
E) disloyal wolf inverter, holster n4+n5 or stacking with kills
F) wolf inverter, holster, 3shot or targets not claiming
CONCLUSIONS
if w!grr it is pretty likely that wolves are out of kp unless they've been getting insanely unlucky. Orr grr lied about the shot and that *was* their extra KP.
Ender's claim is weird. v!vanta can prove the ability copying aspect of the role but that's about it. Ender *does* slot nicely into a motivator flipping into copier, or simply being w/w with vanta and lying about it. It is also possible that all of this is untrue and it's just wolves being wolves, and of the 3 living wolves we have kp out of shots , *another* kp out of shots or a motivator with nothing to do, and one other utility role or Goon.
Ben was either *something that doesn't change the math* or Goon or some form of kp. Syn was goon or some random utility/invest pr.
So anyway worlds.
I mean
Obv I'm gonna reevaluate every single day.
But let's see.
I am *shook* by my deepdive. Inverter!bop explains things. Like if we assume wisdom is in antispew right now, cause if v atp it's just ggs based on the fact that I doubt we get numbers before day ends and the will to swap, let's view it.
w!wisdom it should be one of the vigi worlds OR the arso claim is severely limited in #kills so we *shouldn't* lose on a hit here. Grr *could* be a wolf on that level, but we're again at "fuck it" territory, I think.
So like
I'm REALLY hoping either insom is right about it just being +1
Or it's the wisdom/ender/vanta world.
If it's a different wisdom world, it's gonna fuckin suck getting into these weeds because holy shit.
Vanta Black
name the card
4. Vanta Black
11. grr
12. EnderWiggin
13. i@nsomnia
14. Wisdom
18. Maple
19. Montmorency
vanta needs to post the names of the cards , if he does not and you receive a gun, kill him
this is unironically mechanics not fps
on god
insomnia
08-23-2024, 01:17
ngl i don't get why you'd be coy about the card this late in the game
it looks really wolfy
The deck does not have repeats, so there is only 1 card in the deck that the action vanta is claiming can be
If vanta does not claim the card and name it, he is outed
or if he guesses wrong lol
insomnia
08-23-2024, 01:23
never a good vibe when someone dips in the middle of clarifying something
ender/vanta/grr would be a hell of a way to lose here
REALLY hoping wisdom is a hit
32
EnderWiggin
08-23-2024, 01:26
Kinda around for eod. Busy as per normal.
EnderWiggin
08-23-2024, 01:29
4. Vanta Black
11. grr
12. EnderWiggin
13. i@nsomnia
14. Wisdom
18. Maple
19. Montmorency
vanta needs to post the names of the cards , if he does not and you receive a gun, kill him
this is unironically mechanics not fps
on god
I... am not entirely following. Not naming the cards is ~eh but like I can just name the card I gave???
Unless you're claiming Vanta is lying about us giving 2 cards?
insomnia
08-23-2024, 01:29
ender/vanta/grr would be a hell of a way to lose here
REALLY hoping wisdom is a hit
32
if grr is a wolf, i tip my hat
I... am not entirely following. Not naming the cards is ~eh but like I can just name the card I gave???
Unless you're claiming Vanta is lying about us giving 2 cards?
You naming the card should work here, yes
EnderWiggin
08-23-2024, 01:32
You naming the card should work here, yes
Cool.
I gave em the Page of Pentacles.
EnderWiggin
08-23-2024, 01:33
This is probably confbias but this seems like the lamest gotcha to try and give another path at eod instead of Wisdom.
okay, now i need to know what *specifically* the card does to be able to finish piecing together this mechanics information
Vanta Black
like, what *type* of protection?
(for example, using a medic save on someone, which would stop an NK; firefighter preventing a douse, etc.)
Montmorency
08-23-2024, 01:35
Where we end D6 between players (fill out as necessary):
Insom: Likes Vanta/Monty, dislikes Ender
Maple: Likes grr (relatively), dislikes Ender, FOS Vanta
Ender: Likes Monty, islikes Maple,
grr: Likes Monty, dislikes Insom
Vanta: ???
Wisdom: :whip:
Vanta Black
08-23-2024, 01:35
4. Vanta Black
11. grr
12. EnderWiggin
13. i@nsomnia
14. Wisdom
18. Maple
19. Montmorency
vanta needs to post the names of the cards , if he does not and you receive a gun, kill him
this is unironically mechanics not fps
on god
Well, I am assuming your card was the Ace of Swords (and with a name like that it shoudl be a vig, but it wasn't). And I am assuming you knew it was only a modifier.
The other card, Ender's, was a something of pentacles. I'd have to go into my PMs to check.
I didn't get who gave which card, just "you have The Ace of Swords, here's what it does."
insomnia
08-23-2024, 01:35
This is probably confbias but this seems like the lamest gotcha to try and give another path at eod instead of Wisdom.
Nah we're not moving
Vanta Black
08-23-2024, 01:37
okay, now i need to know what *specifically* the card does to be able to finish piecing together this mechanics information
Vanta Black
like, what *type* of protection?
(for example, using a medic save on someone, which would stop an NK; firefighter preventing a douse, etc.)
I have no idea what you're going for here.
Here's where I am: I believe your claim that you can hand out cards. I don't believe that makes you town. I have seen scum inventors, in fact more than town inventors if I'm remembering right. (Not a lot of them really.)
I protected myeslf because I didn't want to risk using the card on scum.
Vanta Black
08-23-2024, 01:39
I will add that in my brief readimg Montmorency seemed a little salty about not getting a card!
29
so it was a medic save/doctor ability ?
EnderWiggin
08-23-2024, 01:39
I have no idea what you're going for here.
Here's where I am: I believe your claim that you can hand out cards. I don't believe that makes you town. I have seen scum inventors, in fact more than town inventors if I'm remembering right. (Not a lot of them really.)
I protected myeslf because I didn't want to risk using the card on scum.
I... what?
You didn't want to risk using a protective on scum?
Vanta Black
08-23-2024, 01:41
I... what?
You didn't want to risk using a protective on scum?
Wouldn't that be kind of a waste?
EnderWiggin
08-23-2024, 01:42
Wouldn't that be kind of a waste?
Did you think you'd be night killed over PR claims (Me/Maple) or other widely townread people? (Gemma, Insom, Grr kinda too)
28
the ridiculousness of that statement aside
the specific nature of the ability is *extremely* important
Vanta Black
08-23-2024, 01:44
Did you think you'd be night killed over PR claims (Me/Maple) or other widely townread people? (Gemma, Insom, Grr kinda too)
Not really, wolves rarely kill me (because why would they?) but I coulda been vigged.
Look, either im giving someone the Knight of Swords and they will *most likely* receive a vigi shot, maaaaaaybe a despo
or im giving someone a card that is *decently likely* to be an investigative
giving out a gun here would be trolling in fx since a missed shot loses it, but i am *very* worried about *just losing* to some specific worlds
so this information will *really* help me make that choice
27
Players Votes
Wisdom 4 (Montmorency, grr, EnderWiggin, insomnia)
Montmorency 1 (Wisdom)
whatthistextdo
26
The Knight of Swords is wrath, impatience, fanaticism, or blind addiction to action as opposed to thought. Also may indicate initiative and courage.
as per wikipedia
you cant tell me this motherfucker isnt a gun
and let me tell you i am the type of dumb bitch to throw the game over something like this
Vanta Black
08-23-2024, 01:55
Brief recap of day from POV of not giving it my full attention: grr claims to have used the card Maple gave him, some kind of graverobber ability, to get another ability from Arctic, namely a vig, which he used on Sunbae. This whole chain is believable, but Sunbae?
Wisdom hasn't said much. Speaking of which, vote: Wisdom
Maple has been tracking all the cards and claims. I suppose I will understand to what purpose eventually but I sure don't understand it now. I get that Maple was trying to catch me with which card he gave me, somehow--but, you know, if it's a modifier, it needs something to modify.
Posted quick becaues I think Eod is like 5 minutes?
29
so it was a medic save/doctor ability ?
25
im begging you PLEASE just answer the question
yes or no
meow
Montmorency
08-23-2024, 01:57
Where we end D6 between players (fill out as necessary):
Insom: Likes Vanta/Monty, dislikes Ender
Maple: Likes grr (relatively), dislikes Ender, FOS Vanta
Ender: Likes Monty, islikes Maple,
grr: Likes Monty, dislikes Insom
Vanta: Likes grr, dislikes Maple
Wisdom: :whip:
Maple, I'm skimming your mech posts and it really is highly speculative, but: What's a painter? With so many loose shots available, 2 town vigs seems unlikey, esp if Rask was full SK. Have you considered that Mafia has multiple factional powers/actions assigned as opposed to exotic individual PRs? Did you get enough info from Vanta?
We need a cop check more than anything.
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