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Montmorency
08-18-2024, 15:18
Moreover, if Wisdom is scum, then knights has strong partner equity with them anyway, and we can move up that POE.
insomnia
08-18-2024, 15:19
I'll repeat for anyone with sus on Ender, Gemma, or Insomnia.
Based on votes, if Wisdom is scum those players have excellent voting records, being Wisdom pushers and voters (I think all of them would also have pushed at least one other confirmed scum). Other players have layed out that their posting patterns, tone, and interactions with neb et al. are towny. If Wisdom is town, we're already on the road to defeat. If Wisdom is scum, it's our game to lose.
It would be sad to lose the game because we just kept fumbling the ouster of the player more of the player list has suspected than any other but, like, syn.
i think it would be 10x more sad to lose to knights personally after seeing his gameplay
gemma (for dya)
no idea why this qualification exists
also dya has basically no experience reading me so not rly someone you'd want to cite for a gemma read
insomnia
08-18-2024, 15:23
no idea why this qualification exists
also dya has basically no experience reading me so not rly someone you'd want to cite for a gemma read
in case it's wrong i have all bases covered and can blame it on dya
Montmorency
08-18-2024, 15:24
i think it would be 10x more sad to lose to knights personally after seeing his gameplay
*taps sign*
Moreover, if Wisdom is scum, then knights has strong partner equity with them anyway, and we can move up that POE.
i apologize for snapping at you
im a little on edge after village keeps refusing to yeet anyone i want to yeet and yeets my villagers instead
do whatever you like with your reads / vote
follow your heart
dont let your dreams be dreams
https://media.tenor.com/09ePVGhvgwUAAAAM/shiay-do.gif
I think I have a vastly different range of things I find annoying than others so there is no reason to apologize. People calling my reads crazy doesnt mean much to me lol (at least not on this table). I have made no secret of basically having no complete view of the game at all and just catching a few things here and there.
yeah whatever
Vote: Wisdom
lowkey hope this is v and game just ends
I think I have a vastly different range of things I find annoying than others so there is no reason to apologize. People calling my reads crazy doesnt mean much to me lol (at least not on this table). I have made no secret of basically having no complete view of the game at all and just catching a few things here and there.
i basically havent read half of anything since day 2
welcome to the club
They claimed to have given a doc not a vigshot?
wrt dolby I can only speculate but note that he flipped Emperor while Jan flipped Empress or something. So if I had a wild guess I would say there probably was some wiretapping stuff going on, so Dolby had some info what Jan was doing specifically (maybe he could observe his actions? or his chat?)
anyhow its just guessing he was clear the only info he gave out is that Jan specifally chose to spare Manti.
Doc? But wasn't the fuss about Jan choosing to not kill Maple?
EnderWiggin
08-18-2024, 15:36
I can't wait for post-game to find out wtf Dolby was doing there.
EnderWiggin
08-18-2024, 15:37
Maple
Just tell us who you gifted and why.
EnderWiggin
Any updates on your PR?
Why did Vanta and neb simultaneously save Wisdom at EOD3? It's at least a little anti-pairing, isn't it?
It's a mystery :curtain:
Tbh idk why I'm being obtuse at this point but it's mildly funny to me and I'm annoyed so I'm making the game fun anyway.
EnderWiggin
08-18-2024, 15:38
Also Maple is clear.
Y'all suck it up and deal with it at this point.
Montmorency
08-18-2024, 15:38
very funni game ender
yeah whatever
Vote: Wisdom
lowkey hope this is v and game just ends
Game can't end tomorrow mechanically. Most brutal defeat is if Wisdom/knights t/t, despite Wisdom's everything and knights only voting ladd and town PRs (3 of them!) besides his syn vote.
Monte: The game is over if we choose to yeet Wisdom and she's town
Gemma: Proceeds with voting Wisdom
C'mon now she's just openwolfing at this point
EnderWiggin
08-18-2024, 15:43
Sorry about last night, albeit my presence wasn't important (and no one bothered to answer my questions lol). So, after that round, I was thinking most of us could agree that knights was clearly saving Wisdom... but it could also be grr or sunbae. It's best to confirm Wisdom first. A hit would just clear Gemma, Ender, and Insomnia atp.
Vote: Wisdom
Have you ever explained why it'd clear that set of 3? I have ideas of why me because of that set of "questions" that Wisdom through at my on.... D3? D2? I forget.
But I don't recall anything like that for Gemma/Insom.
Though I am leaning those two town anyway.
EnderWiggin
08-18-2024, 15:44
pick your favorite to find out what type of donut u are
https://media.tenor.com/scpIreXMy9wAAAAM/purple-cobras-entrance.gif
https://media.tenor.com/lmXM40bD4dUAAAAM/dancing-danielcraig.gif
https://media.tenor.com/mF02aqycgBoAAAAM/tommy-rall-kiss-me-kate.gif
https://media.tenor.com/hYIz4LnS_A0AAAAM/door.gif
Top one.
very funni game ender
Game can't end tomorrow mechanically. Most brutal defeat is if Wisdom/knights t/t, despite Wisdom's everything and knights only voting ladd and town PRs (3 of them!) besides his syn vote.
Exactly why do you think game can't end?
Because you think wolves don't have 2 extra kp?
I mean, sure, it's unlikely but unless Arctic or Stett shot the other n2 wolves had 2 extra kp then. Arsonist or not there's enough risk of us instantly losing to not accept dying today.
You had your chance to flip me. Now it's too late, we need a wolf yeet today. Even if you think I'm a wolf, yeet someone else. There's 2, likely 3, wolves alive.
EnderWiggin
08-18-2024, 15:46
Vote: knights
I survived 3 possible lunches
I count that as a win.
Not my fault Dolby fake claimed shit.
It’s prob exactly
Insomnia + Monty + 1
Or I’m stupid af.
Which after the last 3 days is more likely lol.
Ngl that bolded part isn't something town players usually think lmao.
Oh Monte actually meant to risk the game on yeeting me? Nu-uh. No. Nope.
Gemma's latch-on looked worse though.
Vote: Gemma
EnderWiggin
08-18-2024, 15:47
Exactly why do you think game can't end?
Because you think wolves don't have 2 extra kp?
I mean, sure, it's unlikely but unless Arctic or Stett shot the other n2 wolves had 2 extra kp then. Arsonist or not there's enough risk of us instantly losing to not accept dying today.
You had your chance to flip me. Now it's too late, we need a wolf yeet today. Even if you think I'm a wolf, yeet someone else. There's 2, likely 3, wolves alive.
Why is it too late to flip you?
EnderWiggin
08-18-2024, 15:49
I read a “intro to mafia” that said you could edit post in 1 min or so.
But if not then I wont.
Blame GH TBH.
“I just changed the spelling to say “I sul” to “I suk”
I personally don't do either of those.
I just sulk. Both at the same time.
Montmorency
08-18-2024, 15:51
Monte: The game is over if we choose to yeet Wisdom and she's town
Gemma: Proceeds with voting Wisdom
C'mon now she's just openwolfing at this point
I think this game is already over if you're town, whether or not we yeet you today. We have 1 ML left before LYLO.
Have you ever explained why it'd clear that set of 3? I have ideas of why me because of that set of "questions" that Wisdom through at my on.... D3? D2? I forget.
But I don't recall anything like that for Gemma/Insom.
Though I am leaning those two town anyway.
Look at the vote and FOS history for one, then check ISOs of them and assoc with Syn/neb done by other players.
EnderWiggin
08-18-2024, 15:52
theknightsofneeee
When you come back sober, I don't want you to focus on defending yourself/your actions (Like I've been seeing on your catchup.)
I want you to narrow your POE to the 3 people you think would be the best yeets and gimme a good reason for all of em. Talk to me about who you'd yeet if you had the power and why.
EnderWiggin
08-18-2024, 15:54
I'm sober, but up too late.
Okay, Dolby said he was trying to clear Maple, he was town, and the evidence is there that he was trying very hard to clear Maple. But all that doesn't really clear Maple for me. I have no doubt he believed in Maple, I just don't know why. Maple is still a problem for me.
grr
Gemma
Need one more in my towncore
Maple
Wisdom
Knights
One of Maple/Wisdom, can't really put them together, but I don't really do that pairing/unpairing thing. Could kinda see Knights with Neb.
Maple is clear.
If you don't trust me trust the other villas that have died saying this.
Why is it too late to flip you?
10 players. 3 wolves.
7/3
Yeet me
6/3
Factional
5/3
If wolves have another 2kp night, it's 3/3 and we lose.
I'm not gonna accept a shrug yeet at this point. Yeet a wolf so I can be spewed town instead.
The team is still Maple/Gemma/Monte and I bet dvc are screaming at people to at least consider it
Game can't end tomorrow mechanically.
a gril can dream of asron cant she
EnderWiggin
08-18-2024, 16:01
One of the problems is that half of the village starts cooking not before 8hrs before deadline while the other half is alr semi-afk at that point. but can't really help that i suppose. 2h/22h is the only acceptable form of mafia for this reason.
My problem has definitely been that my 1 period of activity every 24 hours often doesn't line up with much activity so I find myself posting at a slow or dead thread. So many parts of this thread are like me posting 5-10 times in a row.
And ngl I have definitely felt fatigue solving in that quiet environment by myself.
So this is open invitation to question me/my thoughts while I'm in thread with you.
Can't promise I won't meme in response, but I promise to try to give you something of a serious answer in the interest of not solving remotely.
a gril can dream of asron cant she
Aaaaaaaa
EnderWiggin
08-18-2024, 16:05
The team is still Maple/Gemma/Monte and I bet dvc are screaming at people to at least consider it
Can I ask you to outline some more explicit reasons for those 3? Or point me to a post if you've done that already and I missed it.
Top one.
i dont know what this donut is called, but you're likely gonna be eating some balls
https://i.imgur.com/JHBpGgW.png
Maple is clear.
If you don't trust me trust the other villas that have died saying this.
personally, im not gonna trust dead villas
i *am* however gonna blame jan
:curtain:
Oh Monte actually meant to risk the game on yeeting me? Nu-uh. No. Nope.
Gemma's latch-on looked worse though.
Vote: Gemma
its true
im in a codependant relationship with monty
i want to get out but i cant help it
My problem has definitely been that my 1 period of activity every 24 hours often doesn't line up with much activity so I find myself posting at a slow or dead thread. So many parts of this thread are like me posting 5-10 times in a row.
And ngl I have definitely felt fatigue solving in that quiet environment by myself.
So this is open invitation to question me/my thoughts while I'm in thread with you.
Can't promise I won't meme in response, but I promise to try to give you something of a serious answer in the interest of not solving remotely.
It would be pretty random, if I had telling questions I would have asked you already.
I am basically waiting and seeing if anyone has a coherent worldview that makes sense and I'm not seeing that. so ig the pressing question is who everyone wants to kill because if no one knows who the wolves are, then there are arbitrary reasons to pick any.
"kill wisdom cuz xyz said so, kill knights cause it was dyas latest wolfreads" etcetcetc. if everyone is has no specific clue whats going on, that's cool, but we still would have to decide on flimsy reasons if we're not deciding on good reasons.
(Yeah I have seen Monte's reasons to kill Wisdom, that's like the only one who had commited so far ig.)
The team is still Maple/Gemma/Monte and I bet dvc are screaming at people to at least consider it
Why are you townreading insomnia btw?
EnderWiggin
08-18-2024, 16:29
It would be pretty random, if I had telling questions I would have asked you already.
I am basically waiting and seeing if anyone has a coherent worldview that makes sense and I'm not seeing that. so ig the pressing question is who everyone wants to kill because if no one knows who the wolves are, then there are arbitrary reasons to pick any.
"kill wisdom cuz xyz said so, kill knights cause it was dyas latest wolfreads" etcetcetc. if everyone is has no specific clue whats going on, that's cool, but we still would have to decide on flimsy reasons if we're not deciding on good reasons.
(Yeah I have seen Monte's reasons to kill Wisdom, that's like the only one who had commited so far ig.)
I entered day with the expectation I was just gonna hard vote Knights but I'm trying very hard to not get stuck in a lane because I feel like I've been stuck pushing town a bunch over recent days. (Maple/Dolby specifically for me.)
I would definitely feel better if Wisdom flips wolf because it means I wasn't ~entirely wrong but Knights fits the schema of "I feel like I have a solid towncore but keep cycling my wheels on who wolf is."
Because I cleared them for their D1 wagon and honestly they haven't done a lot to make me townread them since then.
I'm gonna spin my wheels for a while and see how I end up feeling about my susses.
EnderWiggin
08-18-2024, 16:32
yeah ih, i found it funny cuz i elaborated on my read without reading your post
even without it i dont think i'd want vanta dead. i also think it's a solid possibility wolves killed bop for his peek rather than pushes, that's if we think wisdom is a villager which im not sold on for sure
Sunbae were you the one with mont meta? is it normal for him to be this inactive? is he an easy read, what do you think of him etc etc
it seems like we've all just added mont to our poes and are mindlessly voting him and it kinda pings me, cuz why didn't you all do it by now? why exactly now? it's not like he had moments where he shifted his villageriness, he's played the same way all game
I was the one talking Monty Meta D2.
He can be ~pretty inactive, so it's NAI for him.
Never an easy read. Tbh his weird insistence in this game isn't really what I remember from ~either alignment but also I feel like he'd craft posts better as wolf. Which is basically me re-gurgitating my D2 read on his EOD1, but with more evidence.
He often gets POE'd no matter what his alignment unless he has a really good day.
EnderWiggin
08-18-2024, 16:34
gonna lol if we're in the world of knights / gemma / +1 and they actually bussed syn and loved that option over voting each other cuz they both had decent roles and syn had a shit one
but that would be too cool to be true
Gemma would probably just vote off-wagon on that 3-way tbh. She tends to hate bussing at the best of times from memory.
It's not impossible for her to bus but tbh I have been holding onto a villa lean for her because of that memory of a meta.
I dunno how much I believe in that still tho
It would be pretty random, if I had telling questions I would have asked you already.
I am basically waiting and seeing if anyone has a coherent worldview that makes sense and I'm not seeing that. so ig the pressing question is who everyone wants to kill because if no one knows who the wolves are, then there are arbitrary reasons to pick any.
"kill wisdom cuz xyz said so, kill knights cause it was dyas latest wolfreads" etcetcetc. if everyone is has no specific clue whats going on, that's cool, but we still would have to decide on flimsy reasons if we're not deciding on good reasons.
(Yeah I have seen Monte's reasons to kill Wisdom, that's like the only one who had commited so far ig.)
confused nick young
confused nick young
you will have to talk in words.
Gemma would probably just vote off-wagon on that 3-way tbh. She tends to hate bussing at the best of times from memory.
It's not impossible for her to bus but tbh I have been holding onto a villa lean for her because of that memory of a meta.
I dunno how much I believe in that still tho
https://media.tenor.com/3lHXu4DR-c4AAAAM/laughing-spiderman.gif
you crack me up man
gn
EnderWiggin
08-18-2024, 16:38
Sunbae's thread presence has not felt town to me.
I have removed em from POE because the spew from Benneh looks great and tbh the "Jump on sus on Ender" feels defintiely not w/w
But I can't deny I'm doubting.
EnderWiggin
08-18-2024, 16:39
https://media.tenor.com/3lHXu4DR-c4AAAAM/laughing-spiderman.gif
you crack me up man
gn
...
I swear if I've messed up people's Metas again I should just retire.
EnderWiggin
08-18-2024, 16:40
you will have to talk in words.
confused nick young
you will have to talk in words.
b-but.. those are words...
its a gif where someone pauses and looks at the camera like ???
and then more ??? appear and it was quite funny back uh idk a lot of years ago
...
I swear if I've messed up people's Metas again I should just retire.
no u havent i just think its funny that on day whatever day this is u just have a townlean on me because of my day 1 vote
10 players. 3 wolves.
7/3
Yeet me
6/3
Factional
5/3
If wolves have another 2kp night, it's 3/3 and we lose.
I'm not gonna accept a shrug yeet at this point. Yeet a wolf so I can be spewed town instead.
just out of curiosity do you have any specific player in mind who would do that for you?
as in
a) is town
b) recognises you are town or watever
c) finds a wolf and pushes them dead
because I have to inform you the game does not read like this is gonna happen. unless you're waiting for me specifically to push another villa i am pretty good at that :curtain:
monte is kinda right that you fmpov at least knights/you has to have a wolf here for us to yeet any wolf? so umm. if you're town it really isnt looking good? basically the game has to be "easy" or we probably lose. lol.
EnderWiggin
08-18-2024, 16:44
no u havent i just think its funny that on day whatever day this is u just have a townlean on me because of my day 1 vote
https://y.yarn.co/c3fdba0d-7312-41b3-91e6-33348e431eb6_text.gif
It would be pretty random, if I had telling questions I would have asked you already.
I am basically waiting and seeing if anyone has a coherent worldview that makes sense and I'm not seeing that. so ig the pressing question is who everyone wants to kill because if no one knows who the wolves are, then there are arbitrary reasons to pick any.
i mean only the wolves who know who the wolves are ???
"kill wisdom cuz xyz said so, kill knights cause it was dyas latest wolfreads" etcetcetc. if everyone is has no specific clue whats going on, that's cool, but we still would have to decide on flimsy reasons if we're not deciding on good reasons.
(Yeah I have seen Monte's reasons to kill Wisdom, that's like the only one who had commited so far ig.)
who has said to kill wisdom because xyz said so? didnt u say that? does anyone want to kill knights bc of dya ???
why do u think no one has any specific clue whats going on ??? wdym flimsy reasons ???
have u read any of my posts for the last few dayphases where ive repeatedly said i want to kill wisdom and knights and vanta ???
in short, confused nick young
Dolby was killed.
They were:
The Emperor
https://i.imgur.com/zkje1V4.jpeg
They were village!
24 hours for night., Night orders due 7pm, so 22 hours for night orders.
whatthistextdo
Obviously do NOT post at night, thanks.
Good morning chat. Unfortunately very few people are obviously villagery. I'm definitely playing this selfishly but you know how it is.
I don't really *get* v!Wisdom pov tbh
Can I ask you to outline some more explicit reasons for those 3? Or point me to a post if you've done that already and I missed it.
Mostly on the basis that they all seem to protect each other + the fact Maple did a lot of wolfy claims but has 20 Charisma and is a great strategist so he's good at makeing moves that seemingly makes him town. He was supposed to be mech clear since d3, his own words, and he still isn't.
just out of curiosity do you have any specific player in mind who would do that for you?
as in
a) is town
b) recognises you are town or watever
c) finds a wolf and pushes them dead
because I have to inform you the game does not read like this is gonna happen. unless you're waiting for me specifically to push another villa i am pretty good at that :curtain:
monte is kinda right that you fmpov at least knights/you has to have a wolf here for us to yeet any wolf? so umm. if you're town it really isnt looking good? basically the game has to be "easy" or we probably lose. lol.
>:
Then I pray Knights is a wolf but I don't trust that to be the case. If we're v/v wolves are not gonna care about looking for wolves elsewhere so it's up to town. I have 3 wolf reads but Gemma apparently got cleared d1 (hard disagree) Maple got cleared for not getting killed by Jan (???) and Monte seems to be concencus PoE but no one seems to bother voting him.
just out of curiosity do you have any specific player in mind who would do that for you?
as in
a) is town
b) recognises you are town or watever
c) finds a wolf and pushes them dead
because I have to inform you the game does not read like this is gonna happen. unless you're waiting for me specifically to push another villa i am pretty good at that :curtain:
monte is kinda right that you fmpov at least knights/you has to have a wolf here for us to yeet any wolf? so umm. if you're town it really isnt looking good? basically the game has to be "easy" or we probably lose. lol.
>:
Then I pray Knights is a wolf but I don't trust that to be the case. If we're v/v wolves are not gonna care about looking for wolves elsewhere so it's up to town. I have 3 wolf reads but Gemma apparently got cleared d1 (hard disagree) Maple got cleared for not getting killed by Jan (???) and Monte seems to be concencus PoE but no one seems to bother voting him.
Apologies, phone acted up
i mean only the wolves who know who the wolves are ???
Umm. This wasn't meant literal but sometimes people have a solve they believe in. Sometimes it's even me but I don't like it when it'S me hehe. Like comeon you can't tell me that you don't know a thread where people who know what they are doing reads differently than a thread of just a buncha bored/tired/clueless people.
who has said to kill wisdom because xyz said so? didnt u say that? does anyone want to kill knights bc of dya ???
That would be my stance yeah. On both probably. I suppose other people care less about legacies than I do so maybe I'm projecting
why do u think no one has any specific clue whats going on ??? wdym flimsy reasons ???
Because no one here has... presented a solve for good reasons? We have yeeted 1 LHF wolf (allegedly polarized? dont know them), That's all we did. So how does anyone have a clue what's going on? Who is that person because I'd like to know them, unless it's a dead person then I'll point to the comment above
wdym flimsy reasons ???
I mean how about stuff your biggest townread has been yeeting people for:
nice shat
my PoE doesn't change. benneh was part of it, and apparently the strat of "vote people you don't remember anything from" strat is OP for DAORG
Monte said yeet wisdom for meritocratic reasons more or less (which is sensical but also not like a wolfcase lol)
have u read any of my posts for the last few dayphases where ive repeatedly said i want to kill wisdom and knights and vanta ???
This one is on me (the answer is I probably? have?) and probably? forgot?
so. uh. nya, you're welcome.
Mostly on the basis that they all seem to protect each other + the fact Maple did a lot of wolfy claims but has 20 Charisma and is a great strategist so he's good at makeing moves that seemingly makes him town. He was supposed to be mech clear since d3, his own words, and he still isn't.
You think I have 20 charisma? :3
I'm gonna go for a walk and then I will crack this game open.
last part was a joke, if u believed it i am sorry for you. im just hammersitting to kill anyone given the opportunity
Montmorency
08-18-2024, 18:02
Ender I'm pretty sure I've never randed mafia in any game we shared.
Also, there's no maj in this game. Traditionally, Org games never had maj.
If we had maj, it wouldn't have been possible for katze, in Visor's Sorceror 17er here, to do this.
26782
Katze was solo wolf, I was the only one willing to vote her, and she convinced literally every player alive to vote me. I went out like a boss like the French Resistance fighter in the photo (click to expand).
Ender was scum that game btw. He might have conflated our alignments in his meta read on me above.
So I do usually get polarized; either Town or Mafia like to kill me midgame.
Montmorency
08-18-2024, 18:04
EBWOP: Edit "the" > "to"
gonna give things a lil bit longer, but its seeming like im gonna have to take charge this phase
alas
I am rereading the game but i feel like every day wolves can do nothing and just hide behind me if I post my thoughts and thats no bueno, based on #1-#400 i wanna kill knights more than wis as his read on benneh really was very contrived. his read on syn was less cringe ig. inso wasn't towny there. also ig my question to inso is here why exactly do you think knights vote on you is... per se bad because it kinda... makes sense, like that doesnt make him a villager but who else *should* he be suspecting lol.
I am commited to have done a full readthrough (this isnt gonna do anything but make me feel better about myself).
wasn't gemma meant to be obvious villager by now or is that a bad view to hold?
it feels like they're really distant in poking at stuff and the times i've read them it was incredibly easy to villa read them off their pushes. it's been about 35h since SoD and nothing really spicy from them but just placing really safe votes and that doesn't feel like their style at all. i woulda expected them to swing at a hard hitter thus far, but let me know if im wrong
Vote: insomnia
why?
in the mash i remember you pushing high profile players with much more ease and a ton of villageriness. in here you have ~nothing to say about hard hitters despite actively choosing not to get involved. i'd expect someone doing that to at least have something spicier to say and especially you
you are def not playing typical (at least from my viewing of your mash play and a few normals here), i haven't decided if you're a wolf or not for it, but i don't feel comfortable letting you off the hook if you won't provide some cool insight given you aren't getting involved. shouldn't that make it real easy to see you villaging?
just saying
what do you think about ladd voting you?
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/search.php?searchid=20690838
can u quote the post where i pushed ppl
and "ladd prob wolfing" rly doesn't count
man what is people's obsession with status in mafia
high profile this elite omegabrain that like omg
we're all just weird nerds typing random poopies into a little box for the memes
if u haven't decided i'm a wolf then don't shade me from the sidelines (that's why ur post is wolfy)
ladd's vote on me is silly and he'll presumably switch off at some point or not idc about it
umm my main takeaway from #400-#800 is maybe I should not be tinfoiling inso/gemma w/w. lmao
Vanta Black
08-18-2024, 23:49
Apologies to all for not being around for EoD yesterday. My computer screen just went nuts, and since I use it for work I had to stare at it for a few hours. Basically it's flashing, flickering, twisting, and looks like it's having a stroke and/or trying to give me one. It's sporadic so of course when someone who knows what they're doing looks at it it's fine. I just didn't want to deal with it any more than I had to for work.
Anyway, I was looking at the EoD votes and trying to figure out why Dolby got pushed, and I can see it. That claim, or series of claims, and then retraction just looked bad. None of it pointed me at all toward clearing Maple.
I have no idea if I would hvae still been TRing Dolby after reading all that, if I'd been in teh thread at the time.
But anyway we have two dead townies here, one of whom was bent on clearing Maple, and the other who used their last vote on Maple. This makes me really want to resolve Maple, who has been saying for days he would be resolved any minute now, and hasn't been.
Vanta Black
08-18-2024, 23:50
Number 3, but I already know what kind of donut I am.
Mostly on the basis that they all seem to protect each other + the fact Maple did a lot of wolfy claims but has 20 Charisma and is a great strategist so he's good at makeing moves that seemingly makes him town. He was supposed to be mech clear since d3, his own words, and he still isn't.
this isnt true i think gemma pushed maple pretty hard yesterday cuz of the stuff with Jan. Also like. umm. This kind of reads like a weird way to push someone. Idk I cant even put my finger on it but like you're basically saying he's a great wolf so he's mafia and while I am certainly capable of pushing takes like that no one else should be allowed to :3
what im trying to say here without snark is your push reads really struggly in it's reasoning and it pings me. shrug. (and you are also echoing the words of a flipped wolf with the self-resolving thing). btw I think based on him being the role (sounds like a random-item inventor) it's plausible that he thought he would at least potentially self-resolve so it's at worst NAI but its not like he made up bullshit.
I reread all of d1 insos d1 was fine, I am vibing with how wiggins parses the game minor caveat its probably partially becuz he mistrusts sunbae as much as i do but the rest of it also reads decent to me.
Vanta Black
08-19-2024, 00:01
Why is Gemma in your town core?
So, Gemma voted Syn on D1, who flipped wolf, seemed like an unlikely bus. Now earlier she had given a townlean to Syn, and I didn't see the change in her posting. There were players, I forget who, who said Syn's posting was better than in the Saints game, but it looked exactly the same to me, and as Gemma was scum with Syn in that game I thought she might have recognized that. It could have been a bus, didn't look like it.
At the same time, to me her posting in the Saints game and this one seem different. She seems more keen to get some answers, in this one. Not...a lot more keen.
Vanta Black
08-19-2024, 00:07
Why is Gemma in your town core?
Also she wants to kill the same players I do, except for the one. (Me. obviouslu.)
anyway
V
grr
Maple (clear for me now, if there is like only one wolf left and everyone else is omegatowny and the wolves still havent felt the need to nk him or anything and i dunno feel free to tinfoil but im not touching before)
Vanta genuinely think bops v-peek
insomnia (still good tbh, not w/w with gemma)
wiggins
umm, rest is like. it's gth but monte feels fine, if i accept inso as town for now im just sheeping on gemma whatever. which leaves for who i wanna lim today wisdom or knights or whatever inso is saying haha hehe huhu gn.
I mean how about stuff your biggest townread has been yeeting people for:
insom is more like a pet frog but sure
insom felt really good off posts day 1-2
just like, villagery solving type stuff, agreeing enough with what they were saying though this was more the case day 2, day 1 was sorta spotty
this is off memory i havent reread and wont ever reread unless somehow f3 there are still like 20 pages of this game i havent even read to begin with
my read there was hesitant but was reinforced by others sharing the read eg ladd
i dont like their vanta read today (regardless of vanta's alignment) which cools me off a bit but you also have to understand my view of the game atp
i keep trying to get people i think are wolves yeeted, instead people yeet people i don't think are wolves and lo and behold, they arent wolves
my poe doesn't change, i cant update my worldview and reassess from being wrong
so the idea of anyone yeeting or even voting for another person who isnt in my poe is viscerally sagkljsaGDLKJ
im stuck in a rut and wisdom should have been dead at least 2 dayphases ago
the absolute last thing im going to do right now is reassess on v reads
and i genuinely am pretty over this game after so much lolvillaging so i just want it to end more than anything, i also kinda genuinely dont want town to win after the dolby yeet like i always root for wolves to an extent but, anyway this is sort of a bad thing to say but whatever
im also sad i didnt get to yeet benneh it would have been so satisfying
in other words this game seriously lacks dopamine and im just coping with gifs
hope u understand me a lil better
ok seems ur town im going to sleep lol lmfao
I have reevaluated sunbae, grr, and gemma and think my reads there are still correct.
Society if we killed wisdom two days ago:
Okay does anyone want to hardclaim vt because with more people claiming and people reading dead people as PR like
Is this role madness?
I'm sure it's fine to drop cover at this point
Players Votes
Wisdom 2 (Montmorency, Gemma)
insomnia 1 (Theknightsofneeee)
Gemma 1 (Wisdom)
whatthistextdo
2. Arctic, village.
16. ColonelLubriderm, village.
3. Didistetter, village.
what do we think happened here
like "oh arctic might have been vigi"
i highly doubt he shoots into this pool, right?
does nl run arso that gets to douse + ignite same night? like at a point that's just a vigi with the option to be allowed to ignite
could be x# ignites, x# douses
our kp is super limited
and why *2 shot* ff ?
what, 2 shot role-cop and claiming ff so they can target priority players and dodge tracks or something?
So, Gemma voted Syn on D1, who flipped wolf, seemed like an unlikely bus. Now earlier she had given a townlean to Syn, and I didn't see the change in her posting. There were players, I forget who, who said Syn's posting was better than in the Saints game, but it looked exactly the same to me, and as Gemma was scum with Syn in that game I thought she might have recognized that. It could have been a bus, didn't look like it.
At the same time, to me her posting in the Saints game and this one seem different. She seems more keen to get some answers, in this one. Not...a lot more keen.
As far as I know Syn is very busable but someone who has more experience with wolfing with him might have something else to say on that
this isnt true i think gemma pushed maple pretty hard yesterday cuz of the stuff with Jan. Also like. umm. This kind of reads like a weird way to push someone. Idk I cant even put my finger on it but like you're basically saying he's a great wolf so he's mafia and while I am certainly capable of pushing takes like that no one else should be allowed to :3
what im trying to say here without snark is your push reads really struggly in it's reasoning and it pings me. shrug. (and you are also echoing the words of a flipped wolf with the self-resolving thing). btw I think based on him being the role (sounds like a random-item inventor) it's plausible that he thought he would at least potentially self-resolve so it's at worst NAI but its not like he made up bullshit.
I reread all of d1 insos d1 was fine, I am vibing with how wiggins parses the game minor caveat its probably partially becuz he mistrusts sunbae as much as i do but the rest of it also reads decent to me.
Hm, did she now. No, I expect that Maple focuses a lot on Mech when wolf and make Big Plans (tm) and from what I've seen playing around his role has been his main focus this game, hence I think he's in wolf meta. I don't doubt that he's some kind of random item inventor, only that he's using it in a wolfy way.
You think I have 20 charisma? :3
You're a bard, my friend :3
A sneaky sussy little bard
what dnd class would i be wisdom
what dnd class would i be wisdom
wolf
:curtain:
bruh im literally known as that bitch who never shuts up about mechanics
p sure im dying tonight lol
wolf
:curtain:
i dont think thats a dnd class!
whatcha thinkin sunbae?
Still thinking about it. Seeing what others say. Took the day off from the thread and will try to get a bit of a stint in tomorrow early afternoon.
what dnd class would i be wisdom
Temmie
Druid
i dont think thats a dnd class!
well there's always totem barbarian!
insomnia
08-19-2024, 10:04
is knights really gonna go awol til EoD
is knights really gonna go awol til EoD
i checked wolfchat and last message he says he's busy
detecting motion w/ ur mom
(did i do it right benneh)
EnderWiggin
08-19-2024, 17:39
Vote: Knights of Neee
Podracing.
This is all you get from me for now. Long day.
Will be back for EOD probably.
I'm rollin around and shit
Just eatin dirt
Yummy
Montmorency
08-19-2024, 18:52
Okay does anyone want to hardclaim vt because with more people claiming and people reading dead people as PR like
Is this role madness?
I'm sure it's fine to drop cover at this point
You're gonna put that out there without claiming yourself? Every living claimed PR is pretty much just trolling atp.
We can infer so far that no one did anything helpful for us with Maple's gift, and Ender, whoever he's targeted last night, cannot influence night activity anymore, since it is extremely unlikely that there are any more Town PRs to upgrade anymore.
my claim has already been discussed ad nauseam
if im a wolf ive already won that battle, and given 2 village pr claimants have died at this point giving me their complete trust, i *think* it's pretty safe to extend that a bit here
i have come to the realisation that being attached to mafia games sucks. i wish i could just yaknow, let go like all the other peeps.
Wisdom you didnt answer me when I asked why you tr insomnia, also your sunbae read is like... non-existent, why is that!?
insomnia im bored can u come here and deathtunnel me instead of making this knightsofneeee waiting room.
The main result of my readthrough till EoD2 is that im comfortable towncoring gemma i suppose. i doubt reading further in this phase is gonna do anything but tire me out so it probs stops there. insomnia is like fine. (I wanna give him credit for voting benneh after syn too but if there is anyone insomnia would bus with a passion its benneh so thats kinda unlucky in a humourous way. but he's very likely still town)
insomnia you sr knightsofneeee partially for being survivalistic EoD1 am i understanding this right? Because if you read EoD2 the approach is somewhat similar and he wasnt wagoned, what you make of that?
theknightsofneeee
08-19-2024, 19:56
Sup
Here somewhat consistently from now until EOD.
Been incredibly busy but now I’m on a 7 hour drive so nothing to do but play w yall lol
insomnia
08-19-2024, 20:00
Sup
Here somewhat consistently from now until EOD.
Been incredibly busy but now I’m on a 7 hour drive so nothing to do but play w yall lol
please answer all my mentions
insomnia
08-19-2024, 20:01
insomnia you sr knightsofneeee partially for being survivalistic EoD1 am i understanding this right? Because if you read EoD2 the approach is somewhat similar and he wasnt wagoned, what you make of that?
i'll see how he answers me rn and then i'll explain
theknightsofneeee
08-19-2024, 20:03
@ whoever said my read of Benneh early game was lame.
Yeah I don’t really have a reasonable refutation of that, I can easily see how you could see my tone read on benneh as Wolfy, but I’d argue that the way benneh and I interacted at EOD 3 or 4 (where he kinda used me to springboard a vote onto Ladd at EOD) feels pretty obviously not w/w.
But I’ll be honest benneh flipping wolf wasn’t great for my chances to not get ml’d ?
i have come to the realisation that being attached to mafia games sucks. i wish i could just yaknow, let go like all the other peeps.
Wisdom you didnt answer me when I asked why you tr insomnia, also your sunbae read is like... non-existent, why is that!?
I liked his d1 play and he's been agendaless overall, but I wouldn't say I strongly tr him. Him and Sunbae are both kinda "can't read, check again after next wolf flip".
My head is mush so I'm gonna sleep early today.
If you decide to yeet me Maple/Gemma/Monte is still my legacy.
insomnia
08-19-2024, 20:14
I liked his d1 play and he's been agendaless overall, but I wouldn't say I strongly tr him. Him and Sunbae are both kinda "can't read, check again after next wolf flip".
i've been agendaless, yet im villa reading your entire PoE?
xD
insomnia
08-19-2024, 20:16
ngl, the way you describe it, i highly doubt you're a villa with that read
never in my life have i seen someone not worry about me til now that has claimed they can't read me
If I'm right and Maple survives as a wolf who just outwimmed town, then wp!
i've been agendaless, yet im villa reading your entire PoE?
xD
I was more like talking about the way you've been chilling during most of your time in thread
ngl, the way you describe it, i highly doubt you're a villa with that read
never in my life have i seen someone not worry about me til now that has claimed they can't read me
Most of the time I've been sheeping someone who seemed confident you're town. Ladd, I think?
insomnia
08-19-2024, 20:23
Most of the time I've been sheeping someone who seemed confident you're town. Ladd, I think?
i get that, but how can you think im agendaless? that's your read, not his
I liked his d1 play and he's been agendaless overall, but I wouldn't say I strongly tr him. Him and Sunbae are both kinda "can't read, check again after next wolf flip".
yeah so. uh. my issue is it just reads to me like you are conceiling a wolfbuddy in there or someone you want me to mistake for your wolfbuddy? becuz you've been kinda avoiding specific thoughts on both of these? like why even this "him and x". sunbae and insomnia have very different progressions in this game lol.
@ whoever said my read of Benneh early game was lame.
Yeah I don’t really have a reasonable refutation of that, I can easily see how you could see my tone read on benneh as Wolfy, but I’d argue that the way benneh and I interacted at EOD 3 or 4 (where he kinda used me to springboard a vote onto Ladd at EOD) feels pretty obviously not w/w.
But I’ll be honest benneh flipping wolf wasn’t great for my chances to not get ml’d ?
that was me. toneread is like, whatever to me altho his tone was like. idk he was just talking like benneh and not like obvtown benneh but people think the wildest stuff about tone
#333 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857166&viewfull=1#post2053857166)
in specific was my problem tho cause it feels like, really forced. lol.
(its probably not really worth debating cuz im like "wow this reads bad" and as u said u probs cant say anything that makes me think it looks better lol)
i get that, but how can you think im agendaless? that's your read, not his
If I had said directionless, would you understand me better? Because in my head it's the same thing in this context.
Like, you're making posts saying "I struggle to care about the game until my pants are on fire" and mostly float around. And while you do put in some effort to solve, you don't really seem to have a plan or a direction in which you'd prefer to steer people. That's what I mean with agendaless.
If I had said directionless, would you understand me better? Because in my head it's the same thing in this context.
Like, you're making posts saying "I struggle to care about the game until my pants are on fire" and mostly float around. And while you do put in some effort to solve, you don't really seem to have a plan or a direction in which you'd prefer to steer people. That's what I mean with agendaless.
thats a fair read. ftr i dont think its a good read cuz insomnia is very well aware he gets townread for general not-trying (especially by me hehe, which is why i have been wondering if hes doing that on purpose a lot of the time), but no one but me can know that.
yeah idk insomnia im tired lul.
insomnia
08-19-2024, 20:36
If I had said directionless, would you understand me better? Because in my head it's the same thing in this context.
Like, you're making posts saying "I struggle to care about the game until my pants are on fire" and mostly float around. And while you do put in some effort to solve, you don't really seem to have a plan or a direction in which you'd prefer to steer people. That's what I mean with agendaless.
my knights posts today aren't doing that? my maple posts weren't doing that? wut
also, im curious about your knights read please
I dont believe knights/wisdom/sunbae is the solve (reason: seems kinda too obvious) but the fact they are all up there for me and all townreading each other (well maybe not completely i think the only exception was sunbae looking at knights iirc), is really making me -.-
theknightsofneeee
08-19-2024, 20:41
Sure insomnia
theknightsofneeee
gonna start with you first. if you are a villager you can't just naked vote me here, because im probably gonna tunnel you unless you lay out a case. it's incredibly lol to me that a villager could consider im ever a wolf here over someone like sunbae, who is a prolific player that simply didn't do much more than i have. your play has been to tunnel the big names with really poor cases and judging off your choice today, im waiting for you to see what you say and if i deem it really poor, i'll likely just end up tunneling you out for today. i believe if you're a wolf, your sus on me today will make it real obvious as to your alignment, cuz it's hard af to have sunbae as a villager over myself here unless you have TMI. there's just no comparison
also, i can't remember you focusing or giving much importance on wisdom / maple at all, which would also be incredibly lol as a villager with all the dead villas who have died and had at least one of them as a wolf. your play is starting to seem really wolf motivated in that you're just choosing to push 1 big name each day and do nothing else. what is your view on maple / wisdom and what did you consider them to be throughout the game? what i've also noticed is that despite your really low activity and engagement, you seemed to be aware of what was going on in the thread at all times, which bodes really poorly for someone seemingly "out of it" by pushing jan / ladd / myself
i still dunno wtf to do with wisdom / maple, but i simply don't see how there can't be a single wolf fakeclaiming. in that world, wtf is the team doing? nothing?
First off we’ve played enough together that you should know a naked vote from me is nothing more than a statement of suspicion/an attempt to provoke responses, doesn’t mean I’ll end on you. So this weird posturing about voting you is silly. Especially when I was drunk when I made it lmao
But my POE is incredibly small atm.
As of this moment I have the most info of anyone in the game because I know that I’m villa, and that an elim on me probably locks up the game for wolves, so I’m going to be the target today, that much is super obvious. Only scenario in which I’m not is where wisdom is also villa, which is the current world I believe. In which case lolwillage, guess we deserve to lose.
I’m not willing to consider sunbae as a wolf today. A)his solving has been very good, he has built worldviews that meshed extremely well with my own, b) correctly read me as villa im high leverage spots where if he went the other way, I probably die, c) he voted and pushed benneh for what feels like correct reasoning and not distancing, and benneh’s read on sunbae feels like sucking up to a villager in retrospect.
Also we know whoever the wolf team is isn’t going for SPK’s because they left Ladd alive till day 3 so halfway ruling sunbae isn’t viable to me atm either.
So while I quite obviously understand that there is a world where sunbae is a wolf here who deserves a Tony award for his interactions with Benneh, I’m not willing to go there without more elim’s/vote logic.
I’ve talked probably more about maple and wisdom than anyone else still alive, except for maybe sunbae and Gemma (my top two villa reads)
I hard villa read maple the first day and a half, until the claim, and it just felt really wonky/not villagers.
Pushed him for essentially exclusively that since then, and after Dolby confirmed him with his last breath at EOD, I obviously accept my paranoia on maple was incorrect, but perhaps I would have got there sooner if Dolby had just told the truth and not tried to FPS yesterday, who knows.
Wisdom has always been someone that historically I have struggled to read effectively (and her the same with me). And she has had me null essentially all game, and I have essentially cleared her for the firefighter claim because of the neutral flip and because it makes sense in concept with what I know of the setup. And the totality of the pressure that has been on wisdom all game despite them having a viable claim felt overblown/wolf inspired.
But their interactions/pushes/reads I don’t have much that really makes me want to clear wisdom, which is something I hope I can sort for sure today before EOD, because being somewhat tentative on wisdom is bad for both of us, because now people are pushing worlds where we’re together when we have both been aggressively neutral on each other for most of the game lol, and seems completely opposite to what would be effective wolf play.
WRT Ladd/Jan, I don’t think I was tunneled so much as low engagement,and both of those wolf reads were easy and felt right based on their somewhat unusual treatments of me. You could def criticize me being somewhat self centered wrt my reads/play this game, and I would agree. But low engagement villas have to use the info they know for sure, and that is my alignment.
I feel bad for Ladd specifically mostly because if he was around for eod I probably get there on him, but so it goes.
And you are saying it’s bad cases, but Jan disagrees with you, and said my initial push of him made sense on day 1, and my later pushes on him we’re almost exclusively for his claim/interactions with syn, which were completely valid reasons.
Villagers are allowed to be wrong.
theknightsofneeee
08-19-2024, 20:45
re: wisdom's claim
i've thought about it and view it as low chance of there being an arsonist in the game. im 85% sure i would've been a douse by n2, if not n1 and dead by toDay if there was an arso with the way i've played. ofc you guys don't know my alignment and all, but yeah i dont think arso is alive. grr / myself would've been easy douses and would've been smoked ages ago
if we're living in a 3 wolf world, i think we're in a very dangerous spot and we might not even be able to recover today. at least 1 wolf would be deep by way of fake claim and / or EoD1 stuff and i think we'd vote out a PoE villa that is simply not playing the game today
mont / vanta / ender of course count for this, although i think ender won't die
??????????
Why can’t the flipped neutral be an arsonist?
He died EOD2 so no ignites could have happened
And dya 100% killed sheep she had confirmed kp
This is such a weird world to live in
theknightsofneeee
08-19-2024, 20:47
I dont believe knights/wisdom/sunbae is the solve (reason: seems kinda too obvious) but the fact they are all up there for me and all townreading each other (well maybe not completely i think the only exception was sunbae looking at knights iirc), is really making me -.-
AFAIK I’m still bull for wisdom
Which is lol I’ll grant you but maybe I missed something?
??????????
Why can’t the flipped neutral be an arsonist?
He died EOD2 so no ignites could have happened
And dya 100% killed sheep she had confirmed kp
This is such a weird world to live in
i think arctic argued rask wouldnt claim a kill on a player he didn't do, so it'd just be gamelosing to claim the sheep kill if he doesnt genuinely think he did the kill.
insomnia
08-19-2024, 20:49
so are you voting me to see reactions or cuz you sus me? if it's the latter, present your case or say why
and i'd appreciate if you answered each question in particular
bro rereading sucks give me back isos
insomnia
08-19-2024, 20:52
??????????
Why can’t the flipped neutral be an arsonist?
He died EOD2 so no ignites could have happened
And dya 100% killed sheep she had confirmed kp
This is such a weird world to live in
because the neutral "arsonist" wouldn't claim a kill d2 that is not his?
cmon bruh
AFAIK I’m still bull for wisdom
Which is lol I’ll grant you but maybe I missed something?
wisdoms reads on benneh and vice versa kinda recalled https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/34953-28-Miscellaneous-Tips-for-Villaging-%28by-ladd%29
this article for me in places like the "whoops forgot my wolfbuddy gonna say something about them to catch up on it rq", this went in both directions btw.
Also in the only readslist benneh ever posted his take on wisdom feels a bit like a TMI read to me tbh.
wisdoms reads on benneh and vice versa kinda recalled https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/34953-28-Miscellaneous-Tips-for-Villaging-%28by-ladd%29
this article for me in places like the "whoops forgot my wolfbuddy gonna say something about them to catch up on it rq", this went in both directions btw.
Also in the only readslist benneh ever posted his take on wisdom feels a bit like a TMI read to me tbh.
Specifically referring to the "how to find w/w interactions" part of the article here.
I will admit that both of you (knights and wisdom) had posts where i thought hm this kinda reads like a villager wrote that, but.
a) ladd's (and everyones really) legacy makes me hard to ignore that. and also, you both were townreading sunbae and a world where all 3 of you are villas that's like. oof, rough sell for me.
insomnia
08-19-2024, 20:58
knights, you think wisdom / maple is v/v correct?
what is your PoE then?
theknightsofneeee
08-19-2024, 21:00
because the neutral "arsonist" wouldn't claim a kill d2 that is not his?
cmon bruh
He was under strong pressure for a wagon already (which was why he claimed), he could demonstrate kp if he was an arsonist, and no one had claimed the sheep kill so it was possibly wolf KP and claiming it wouldn’t bite him.
Plus closed setup claims are impossible to disprove. Could have been a stack of KP.
I don’t know that it was optimal but arsonists are MOST of the time neutral, stands to reason when a neutral flips there is a decent chance they were lying about claims.
for those curious: while i do not blame dolby at all (everyone here knows ive done similar before - hello cc'ing lissa) I am deflated at that being wrong given I feel like it was a good case for good reasons that did not factor in the possibility of dolby just making it up as a villager. this is coupled with my mild deflation at correctly reading rask as off early only for him to be 3p and my more severe deflation with not sticking up for vladd wbenneh thoughts on day 3. I was hoping a day removed from the thread would reinvigorate me, alas it has not.
My general take for the game state is:
- If two different pr villagers went out of their way to save Maple because their info make them think Maple villager then I suppose I just have to roll with it. Which I mean, isn't that hard for me given I villa read at various points anyways and then villa read due to spew, but now I can blame others instead of myself if I'm wrong and that's huge game.
- The dolby one hurts because it goes against my general approach of midgaming which is "just kill the people not trying to solve" and dolby was doing a lot of solving. That was a bad chop in hindsight (im sure to others it was a badchop in real time). But it does make me want to pull back to that general approach.
- Dya thought Knights was a hit. Ladd thought knights was a hit. Im gonna see what bop/arctic/stett/newcomb thought too
- Other option is wisdom and im considering that too. i know bop ended there. my concern is that wisdom/benneh doesnt read w/w to me and wisdoms reads are just so far out of thread consensus (i think insom mentioned villa reading wisdoms entire poe) that i think its odd for a wolf, but its day 5 so like thats not much to overwrite all the dead villagers that wanted them dead
- we are currently in sponge dead villa mode i just gotta see which one i wanna do that with
insomnia
08-19-2024, 21:05
He was under strong pressure for a wagon already (which was why he claimed), he could demonstrate kp if he was an arsonist, and no one had claimed the sheep kill so it was possibly wolf KP and claiming it wouldn’t bite him.
Plus closed setup claims are impossible to disprove. Could have been a stack of KP.
I don’t know that it was optimal but arsonists are MOST of the time neutral, stands to reason when a neutral flips there is a decent chance they were lying about claims.
he would've said he stacked with dya, not counter them if that was the case
he had a much easier chance just playing it out than claiming in a closed setup
and sheep was never a wolf kill imo and plenty of us said that
ymmv
insomnia
08-19-2024, 21:07
knights, i tagged you in one post with a different set of questions and the answers are prob gonna make or break your alignment to me
so if you can answer that'd be great
I’m not willing to consider sunbae as a wolf today. A)his solving has been very good, he has built worldviews that meshed extremely well with my own, b) correctly read me as villa im high leverage spots where if he went the other way, I probably die, c) he voted and pushed benneh for what feels like correct reasoning and not distancing, and benneh’s read on sunbae feels like sucking up to a villager in retrospect.
but like, the thing is i dont think this is true about the worldview? from my memory 2 stances were you were heavily conflicting:
a) sunbae was townreading ladd while you were heavily sussing him.
b) d2 sunbae called rask/dya v/v in the CC quickly, you were content with rask going? and called him wolfy (#2207)
theknightsofneeee
08-19-2024, 21:12
knights, you think wisdom / maple is v/v correct?
what is your PoE then?
Villagers
Knights
Gemma (do t think I can kill here based on EOD1)
Sunbae (if sunbae is a wolf he issomeone I have to deal with in Lylo)
Maple (claim)
Wisdom (claim)
Grr (hella villagery)
Wolves
Everyone else
I feel like the wombo combo of Ladd into Dolby has really stifled our ability to sort through someone like Mont or Vanta and uh, is problem
Did benneh start pushing wisdom harder on day 2 or day 3
Villagers
Knights
Gemma (do t think I can kill here based on EOD1)
Sunbae (if sunbae is a wolf he issomeone I have to deal with in Lylo)
Maple (claim)
Wisdom (claim)
Grr (hella villagery)
Wolves
Everyone else
what about ender
theknightsofneeee
08-19-2024, 21:22
but like, the thing is i dont think this is true about the worldview? from my memory 2 stances were you were heavily conflicting:
a) sunbae was townreading ladd while you were heavily sussing him.
b) d2 sunbae called rask/dya v/v in the CC quickly, you were content with rask going? and called him wolfy (#2207)
I specifically quoted his reads list day 3(?) and it was essentially my exact reads with like two minor adjustments.
Rask reads are hard to make reads on since he was a neutral. Sunbae calling them v/v would be possible tmi (like with his read on me and read on benneh) but he’s also just a really good villager and I don’t think those reads are unobtainable for him.
Sunbae I’m going to make a direct meta appeal to you. Idk if you remember this game or not, but we played a game several years ago where I was a wolf with maple (I think) and you were villaging. I went into final 5 and only needed one elim for the win. And you systematically solved the game over a full day in a way I have yet to see any villager replicate. I eventually had to concede you were just obvious village and try to push someone else, and you hammered me.
If I were a wolf this game (or any game you are villagering) you will never survive past day 2. Period.
If you are a villager, I am NEVER a wolf here.
I would kill you over power roles.
I fear your village game like no other.
guess i'm just gonna use this time to talk about some other things
i don't like wisdom's post about the situation regardless of what rask is (i think dya is town either way imo, claim matches too well with what they've been crumbing previously + no real reason to claim here). it feels like TMI that rask is a wolf here, or even if he isn't the lack of real consideration about what's going on doesn't feel great
i haven't spoken about grr yet today but i want it known that i am +1'ing all of the lock town meta reads on him - he is a much more binary player as a wolf and it would be a lot more obvious. he isn't really capable of replicating the back and forth he's had over his reads and his doubt/paranoia on stuff. i can't describe it very well and these all feel like buzzwords, but he is a pretty idiosyncratic player and the way he's been parsing this game particularly with the frustration over being ignored on the newcomb push + his indignation in interactions with rask today are just from town him. i would not reconsider this read until lylo
insomnia's posts are also just too good, even if ladd is town i don't care i just feel like he's been the only person in the group of "strong players" who's been seriously getting his hands dirty and actually parsing that group, would maybe reconsider like the day before lylo but i doubt it. same applies to stett, she has a particular way of questioning people as town where i can tell she cares about the response and her follow ups have been proof of this
i'm actually less sure on ladd being a wolf now that i think wisdom is probably a wolf which is ironic given the earlier sentiment expressed, but ladd was the first person to call out wisdom's claim as probably fake iirc so it's worth thinking about. i would expect at least one between them though
i was going to say that after colonel's post transcripting the neighborhood chat i would have locked him as town but learning that was all fake kind of gave me whiplash and also scares me a little in terms of implications for how good his wolfgame is knowing he can fake all that. i haven't had many other thoughts on his posts today. i'd re-visit him like.. tomorrow, honestly? maybe the day after
sunbae i am kinda townreading cuz i honestly just believe the unconvincing self-meta wall. like they expected it to be not convincing if they are a wolf. when i'm town i have a habit of doing the same thing and just posting it anyway because i know it's true, and i don't bother so much when i'm a wolf. i also don't really feel like they have an agenda and the restless urge to do something that strong wolf players have tends to be pretty hard to ignore, and that's what he's done this game if he is a wolf. i find it much easier to just be happy about doing nothing when i'm town than when i'm a wolf, most people probably know this feeling too. is this gonna stop you guys killing him later - probably not, and i don't expect it to either, so this one is more of a hero townread that i fully expect you guys to ignore
montmorency actually, uh, yeah still no clue honestly. i find his posting very null. i've seen the arguments about his eod1 seeming uninformed and there seems to be some meta involved which i nodded along to, but i think this may need to be reconsidered if rask is a wolf too
benneh i think kinda falls into a similar place to sunbae for me (quite unhelpful, i know) but i don't really think the way he's playing is super sustainable as a wolf? i know that like, no one is really trying to kill him but going back to the restless urge thing, it seems like if he is a wolf he's perfectly happy about just letting villagers clear each other which is inevitably going to result in his untimely boxing in. dunno. i think he's had fine posts today, i don't agree with the ender push but i think his last push on rask seemed the most grounded thing presented today. i'm running out of people to call a wolf though so uhm i guess he's just a wolf anyway. rip!
think i've more or less spoken about everyone else
i have found knights and gemma distinctly unimpressive today (moreso knights, i still believe gemma is spewed) but if we keep missing killing people who aren't either of these two, the world where all of the wagons on day 1 were wolves is worth considering, because wolves stacking on syn there is like, pretty a pretty reasonable explanation for things. so re-visit them if the above people keep flipping town i guess
but as it stands my poe would probably be
jan (replace with colonel if rask is wolf)
dolby
mont
vanta
benneh
ladd
maple
wisdom
rask
compiling dead villa legacies one sec
i do remember that game knights! i was actually thinking about that one myself a few days ago when i was talking about the old me would just tear through the thread and i dont have that in me anymore lmao
ive got a little bit of time so can we dig through vanta/monte? if youre a villager and you think wisdom is a villager, one of them has to be a wolf right?
theknightsofneeee
08-19-2024, 21:32
i do remember that game knights! i was actually thinking about that one myself a few days ago when i was talking about the old me would just tear through the thread and i dont have that in me anymore lmao
ive got a little bit of time so can we dig through vanta/monte? if youre a villager and you think wisdom is a villager, one of them has to be a wolf right?
Yeah I would lean Monty based on vibes/Monty has gotten no heat from anyone despite being in multiple pie’s yesterday.
Vanta has had villagers posting.
But FMPOV there is likely only 1 villa in insomnia/vanta/Monty/enderwiggen
And idk who lol
Am I misremembering something or did Monty have a claim? Can someone remind me?
theknightsofneeee
08-19-2024, 21:36
Phone posting so it’s hard to iso/build cases but I’ll go through all 4 of them and give general opinions and quote any super important things
Phone posting so it’s hard to iso/build cases but I’ll go through all 4 of them and give general opinions and quote any super important things
ty!
no, it's not about the group defense. it's about how he talked about knights compared to sheep. Knights he's very vague on why he's towny. compare that to like any dead villager - even ladd who he flipped on and called a wolf
oh god you want me to think about this sunbae?
if dolby is telling the truth the game just became very easy and knights or wisdom is still the best vote for today. I think knights over wisdom
or he's a wolf. But I also dont think he'd lie this elaborately
more legacies
no, it's not about the group defense. it's about how he talked about knights compared to sheep. Knights he's very vague on why he's towny. compare that to like any dead villager - even ladd who he flipped on and called a wolf
i doubt i am dying and if so my plan was to leave jan my legacy (tho I realize he will probably die tonight lol but at least we will have a fun chat)
my associative stop at "i'd kill knights after wisdom" atm
my legacy is this
dont kill until lylo - should be pure
ladd
insomnia
grr
gemma
jan
dya
dolby
leaning villa
ender - again plz make them claim tho. always a villager if knights w
vanta - should be v if wisdom w
PoE
monti - I see the villagery posting but also at some point u gotta punish people for posting dumb arguments and he has been pushing some truly nonsensical things
benneh
sunbae
maple
wolves
knights
wisdom
but idrc about people following my legacy, you guis can do what you want after I die. Those are simply my reads
even more legacies
no, it's not about the group defense. it's about how he talked about knights compared to sheep. Knights he's very vague on why he's towny. compare that to like any dead villager - even ladd who he flipped on and called a wolf
I think we should vote wisdom.
It's kind of weird more people don't think dya-rask could be v-v. Because either side claiming as a wolf makes zero sense. Rask can be a 2 shot vog AND dya can be a one shot vig that only works if no one else targets. It isn't that crazy.
@raskolinkov
if you arent killed consider not shooting dya
and to those who think i might look bad for trying to not kill rask if he is indeed a wolf; i started up the syn and rask wagons at eod on day 1. if they are both wolves im a golden god and jan will be giving my tootsies a rub in postgame
gl godbless
yet another dead villager wanting to delete wisdom
Villagers
Knights
Gemma (do t think I can kill here based on EOD1)
Sunbae (if sunbae is a wolf he issomeone I have to deal with in Lylo)
Maple (claim)
Wisdom (claim)
Grr (hella villagery)
Wolves
Everyone else
considering u are v-reading gemma (don't disagree). she has been smacking me on the head for voting insomnia today hehe (not to overstate her v-read on insom but she did make it clear she doesnt wanna reconsider the few v-reads she has or something) so at this point i kinda think you have to live with an inso.v world or game is over.
(i also do believe that its the more likely world but i certainly wouldnt have minded grilling him a bit more to uh, idk make sure this is not a thing we're missing. so im just kinda. over this and it is what it is if he is wolfin somehow)
sorry if this was true
wisdom is on my radar
last post of stett's
i'm special tho :v
i think you could win by not interpreting what people are saying as slights against you but moreso as their own very filtered, personal perception of another slot's subjective feel in the thread, and just go on doing your thing without lampshading how you feel your slot is being treated. you do you though I don't wanna poke the cactus
ho ho ho ho hooooly shit that's mean I love it
Saving my last few posts for vote switching. I'm okay with knights or syn. I'd shed a tear for gemma and don't personally think that's a hit in my gut but I can't throw down the townshield, I don't feel it like that.
o/
and newc was on knights or syn
Montmorency
08-19-2024, 21:56
my claim has already been discussed ad nauseam
if im a wolf ive already won that battle, and given 2 village pr claimants have died at this point giving me their complete trust, i *think* it's pretty safe to extend that a bit here
So why wouldn't you reveal your action?
theknightsofneeee
08-19-2024, 21:59
considering u are v-reading gemma (don't disagree). she has been smacking me on the head for voting insomnia today hehe (not to overstate her v-read on insom but she did make it clear she doesnt wanna reconsider the few v-reads she has or something) so at this point i kinda think you have to live with an inso.v world or game is over.
(i also do believe that its the more likely world but i certainly wouldnt have minded grilling him a bit more to uh, idk make sure this is not a thing we're missing. so im just kinda. over this and it is what it is if he is wolfin somehow)
Who are your lock villas atm? Is there anyone in my villa circle you aren’t villa reading atm?
I’m def willing to put off dealing with insomnia, mostly because I probably want Monty dead more, but also cause building a case against insomnia while on phone sounds like genuine torture, and if I’m wrong on insomnia and insomnia gets polarized against me we probably just lose the game lol.
Vote: Monty
insomnia
08-19-2024, 22:00
Vote: knightsofneeee
theknightsofneeee
08-19-2024, 22:06
I'm sober, but up too late.
Okay, Dolby said he was trying to clear Maple, he was town, and the evidence is there that he was trying very hard to clear Maple. But all that doesn't really clear Maple for me. I have no doubt he believed in Maple, I just don't know why. Maple is still a problem for me.
grr
Gemma
Need one more in my towncore
Maple
Wisdom
Knights
One of Maple/Wisdom, can't really put them together, but I don't really do that pairing/unpairing thing. Could kinda see Knights with Neb.
Vanta Black
We all have to just accept that if Dolby lied on his legacy post when dying about tracking Jan to dya, then we can just blame Dolby in postgame.
That plus Jan not killing maple is more than enough circumstantial evidence to accept the claim.
So, Gemma voted Syn on D1, who flipped wolf, seemed like an unlikely bus. Now earlier she had given a townlean to Syn, and I didn't see the change in her posting. There were players, I forget who, who said Syn's posting was better than in the Saints game, but it looked exactly the same to me, and as Gemma was scum with Syn in that game I thought she might have recognized that. It could have been a bus, didn't look like it.
At the same time, to me her posting in the Saints game and this one seem different. She seems more keen to get some answers, in this one. Not...a lot more keen.
God I am such a sucker
This reads as so villagery to me
Questioning maple being villa after the Dolby elim also doesn’t feel like a wolf angle.
I think vanta is just a villager
theknightsofneeee
08-19-2024, 22:07
Vote: knightsofneeee
I will get to your stuff but it’s not the most pressing for me atm
Who are your lock villas atm? Is there anyone in my villa circle you aren’t villa reading atm?
I’m def willing to put off dealing with insomnia, mostly because I probably want Monty dead more, but also cause building a case against insomnia while on phone sounds like genuine torture, and if I’m wrong on insomnia and insomnia gets polarized against me we probably just lose the game lol.
Vote: Monty
gemma/inso are probs socially my top TRs then. maple i already explained respecting Jan choosing to spare him and Dolby dying for that.
so these are off the table.
insomnia
08-19-2024, 22:10
I will get to your stuff but it’s not the most pressing for me atm
your sense of urgency at EoD compared to how you're placing your votes are extremely wolfy
you start the day thinking it could be end game and your thoughts at LunchLo are "if the first vote i felt like making is a villa we prob lose so i dont wanna push him today"
like what villa thinks that?
you didn't care all game for that in your pushes and when you should, you don't push?
is it cuz you don't have a single reason and you were just testing the waters?
just a little moaning
11pm and this is defo the last game ever where i skip my bedtime (if i dont alr. randomly yolo out here considering... i dont have much confidence we have winodds.). in the future im just going for the ladd-experience.
insomnia
08-19-2024, 22:16
Wisdom
read on knights, please
if you ignored him like he did, talk about his actions and which you wolfread / villaread etc
theknightsofneeee
08-19-2024, 22:16
your sense of urgency at EoD compared to how you're placing your votes are extremely wolfy
you start the day thinking it could be end game and your thoughts at LunchLo are "if the first vote i felt like making is a villa we prob lose so i dont wanna push him today"
like what villa thinks that?
you didn't care all game for that in your pushes and when you should, you don't push?
is it cuz you don't have a single reason and you were just testing the waters?
Unironically yes to the last one. I don’t have a reason to vote you. But I also don’t really have a reason not to vote you except for your somewhat good vote EOD 1.
But compared to Gemma’s it’s not even in the same league.
I called you lightly villagers at EOD yesterday. Because I thought you have been. But the Poe is tight and someone I’m villa reading has to be wolfing.
I’m obviously not very married to the vote and I haven’t even ISO’d you yet, why are you up in arms over this?
insomnia
08-19-2024, 22:18
your sense of urgency at EoD compared to how you're placing your votes are extremely wolfy
you start the day thinking it could be end game and your thoughts at LunchLo are "if the first vote i felt like making is a villa we prob lose so i dont wanna push him today"
like what villa thinks that?
you didn't care all game for that in your pushes and when you should, you don't push?
is it cuz you don't have a single reason and you were just testing the waters?
at SoD* not EoD
it's just kinda lol to me you open up voting me and you think mont is a safer vote in the end
at least for me there's a case, because i've done more. what's the case for him, not being active?
idt im moving off you til you explain your case on me. and this post answered my earlier question in that you actually had reasons to sus me, so why act like you were "testing" me?
theknightsofneeee
08-19-2024, 22:20
Grrr talk to me about sunbae.
I think he should be part of a voting block with us and Gemma/maple.
I think the 5 of us are all villa, or at max 1 wolf.
What reservations do you have with this as a plan?
gemma/inso are probs socially my top TRs then. maple i already explained respecting Jan choosing to spare him and Dolby dying for that.
so these are off the table.
wheres your head on ender. ive been feeling villa there but im noticing nobody else is putting ender in the villa lists here. am i missing something?
Grrr talk to me about sunbae.
I think he should be part of a voting block with us and Gemma/maple.
I think the 5 of us are all villa, or at max 1 wolf.
What reservations do you have with this as a plan?
Mostly that I'm convinced he is a wolf. Other than that not much.
theknightsofneeee
08-19-2024, 22:28
wheres your head on ender. ive been feeling villa there but im noticing nobody else is putting ender in the villa lists here. am i missing something?
Fwiw I had ended as villa yesterday but that was before Dolby villa flip and my Poe significantly tightened after that.
wheres your head on ender. ive been feeling villa there but im noticing nobody else is putting ender in the villa lists here. am i missing something?
he's kinda fine. i suppose in the 5% world ur a villa he might be a wolf i just dont think its the world i live in and even then he's kinda fine ig.
insomnia
08-19-2024, 22:38
Unironically yes to the last one. I don’t have a reason to vote you. But I also don’t really have a reason not to vote you except for your somewhat good vote EOD 1.
But compared to Gemma’s it’s not even in the same league.
I called you lightly villagers at EOD yesterday. Because I thought you have been. But the Poe is tight and someone I’m villa reading has to be wolfing.
I’m obviously not very married to the vote and I haven’t even ISO’d you yet, why are you up in arms over this?
because you open up at SoD acting like it's the end of the world and your votes don't mean anything today, as i assumed
the fact you have no reason for being on me at this point in time bodes really poorly after your entire play this game. do you not see why?
not only are you not abiding to the PoE of all the dead villas and you pushed all the active "strong" villas, you defended a wolf among them and i quite frankly dont get what your gameplay is today
your PoE makes no sense to me either. you'd get why im so hung up on you if you took a look over my questions, cuz most of them show how i feel about your actions
Monty popped up as an option for you today despite no prior talk, why is that?
the problem is simply that you place votes you don't even have reasons for at lunchlo (your words)
he's kinda fine. i suppose in the 5% world ur a villa he might be a wolf i just dont think its the world i live in and even then he's kinda fine ig.
5%?
insomnia
08-19-2024, 22:46
also at EoD1 i had a really villagery progression on you that you aren't even taking account of. no way im the first vote option for you toDay rather than mont given that, if you were a villa i think it would've stuck to you
i feel like pushing me despite of it is kinda ~outing because you as villa would see how i could just as easily keep my vote on you with how bad you were posting, which everyone has said
or just vote gemma. i had the setup on the both of you
that's why i feel like you villa reading sunbae over myself is kinda TMI cuz i can't even remember what he did to kill benneh (sorry sunbae im convinced it's just a me issue at this point lol, im sure you made a case or something) but holding him as villagerier for it over myself is just lol
it would've been villagery to me if you explained cuz you really need to be a villager to genuinely sus me here, but you just said you were "reaction testing" and like i assumed, you have 0 reason to vote me to the point where it looks like you're just trying to seem villagery and not genuinely solving
idk how you can't have a wolf read rn, both mont and myself im sure are just PoE names
that seems a bit hyperbolic!
insomnia
08-19-2024, 22:51
i just think if wisdom / knights are v/v then we're doomed ngl
i don't see the game making sense without at least 1 being wolf there
and i just don't vibe with your PoE at all?
i just think if wisdom / knights are v/v then we're doomed ngl
i don't see the game making sense without at least 1 being wolf there
and i just don't vibe with your PoE at all?
I've been thinking about it and I think the only way it makes sense is if it's exactly Mont/Gemma/Vanta (mont locking in on wisdom "to clear gemma" for days, vanta just kind popping in to chill, all 3 of them just not wanting to shake anything up) but idk how much I believe in that (its not much)
I've been thinking about it and I think the only way it makes sense is if it's exactly Mont/Gemma/Vanta (mont locking in on wisdom "to clear gemma" for days, vanta just kind popping in to chill, all 3 of them just not wanting to shake anything up) but idk how much I believe in that (its not much)
basically i have a lot of dead villagers locking in grr town reads and town reads on you, we've talked about maple a bunch, i suppose you can swap gemma with ender in that situation but mehhh (i really feel like benneh hopping on ender when i expressed suspicion is unlikely to be paired)
meow
i dunno
flipless games ammaright?
meow
i dunno
flipless games ammaright?
eh i dont think flipless has any effect on this one
like we chopped a wolf d1
chopped a sk d2
vigged a wolf n3
then missed bad on d4
overall i think village has been fine its just whoever the wolves are have been a tish better than fine so far
but game isnt over yet so hopefully we can overcome it
that seems a bit hyperbolic!
it's my reads? i dont think at any point in time i have claimed to be a mafia oracle (this isnt a mech hint just using the word) or have any kind of "objective" measure to someones actual wolf equity. i am not a computer lol. in fact i have been specifically careful about reminding people of what i think of my own experience/talent? compared to the rest of the table here. obviously im gonna make reads cuz otherwise i might just as well not play lol.
eh i dont think flipless has any effect on this one
like we chopped a wolf d1
chopped a sk d2
vigged a wolf n3
then missed bad on d4
overall i think village has been fine its just whoever the wolves are have been a tish better than fine so far
but game isnt over yet so hopefully we can overcome it
I'm still just annoyed about yesterday but it should be fine
I'm kinda just circling back to just killing knights or wisdom
Same place I've been for 3 days lol
Well, sans dolby but ya know
Grr push on you noted but j won't be alive tmr so ya know
it's my reads? i dont think at any point in time i have claimed to be a mafia oracle (this isnt a mech hint just using the word) or have any kind of "objective" measure to someones actual wolf equity. i am not a computer lol. in fact i have been specifically careful about reminding people of what i think of my own experience/talent? compared to the rest of the table here. obviously im gonna make reads cuz otherwise i might just as well not play lol.
oh im just making a joke about 5% being really low! also idk why you sell yourself short so much youre good too?
I'm still just annoyed about yesterday but it should be fine
I'm kinda just circling back to just killing knights or wisdom
Same place I've been for 3 days lol
Well, sans dolby but ya know
Grr push on you noted but j won't be alive tmr so ya know
i mean, yesterday got a little off the rails and ended up being not great but uh, happens i guess
theknightsofneeee
08-19-2024, 23:06
Just ISO’s monty
He is pushing wisdom pretty strongly today but I kinda buy it?
His pov with just assuming wisdom is a wolf and moving from there because if it’s wrong game is essentially unwinnable feels similar to my feelings of clearing Gemma/sunbae. Feels villagers.
Idfk man
Just ISO’s monty
He is pushing wisdom pretty strongly today but I kinda buy it?
His pov with just assuming wisdom is a wolf and moving from there because if it’s wrong game is essentially unwinnable feels similar to my feelings of clearing Gemma/sunbae. Feels villagers.
Idfk man
i would be interested in hearing your thoughts on day 3
That was the "probably kill maple or wisdom" -> "well jan claimed to be inverted and can take care of maple so lets go elsewhere" -> "flash wagon on ladd" day
in as much detail as possible
theknightsofneeee
08-19-2024, 23:11
Just to be clear, we have all the following flips/claims:
1. Rask neutral vig?
2. dya town vig
3. ender town inverter/upgrader
4. maple town inventor
5. Jan town JK
6. Wisdom town firefighter
7. Dolby town JOAT
Is that complete?
Hm, why have both inventor and JOAT.
Oh wait did ender claim inverter and I missed that? Cause IMO that role is almost never villa aligned.
Gonna iso ender
oh im just making a joke about 5% being really low! also idk why you sell yourself short so much youre good too?
I have a lot of flaws. mostly frustration related and also like, not having quantifiable methods on how to read games which makes me impulsive and also forget about good takes i have becuz i dont really know how good they are i just feel stuff in my bones sometimes. I'm mostly like a cat who randomly finds wool balls to play with in mafia games.
ftr i do believe a lot of tables underestimate me, i am actually quite irked at that in a lot of MU games, but still, i am humbled by arctic, insomnia, ladd, dya, newcomb etc.etc. (idont have much experience with u but i assume you are playing in the same league). (um if i forgot a name here w/e but i think y'all are probs a lot better than me rofl).
(and as I said I mostly signed up for the PL and cuz I was genuinely just curious how it'd play out and maybe learn a few new tricks, i am relatively chill about the outcome of the game.)
EnderWiggin did u actually claim yet? Ladd said you should and i've read different stuff about u and im not sure whats what here now wrt you.
I have a lot of flaws. mostly frustration related and also like, not having quantifiable methods on how to read games which makes me impulsive and also forget about good takes i have becuz i dont really know how good they are i just feel stuff in my bones sometimes. I'm mostly like a cat who randomly finds wool balls to play with in mafia games.
ftr i do believe a lot of tables underestimate me, i am actually quite irked at that in a lot of MU games, but still, i am humbled by arctic, insomnia, ladd, dya, newcomb etc.etc. (idont have much experience with u but i assume you are playing in the same league). (um if i forgot a name here w/e but i think y'all are probs a lot better than me rofl).
(and as I said I mostly signed up for the PL and cuz I was genuinely just curious how it'd play out and maybe learn a few new tricks, i am relatively chill about the outcome of the game.)
might be more of a postgame discussion but the big secret imo is that everyone has a lot of flaws and mafia is just about figuring out what you do well, highlighting that as much as possible, then figuring out what other people do well and listen to them on that. its much more of a collaborative effort to be "good" (the term "good" in mafia probably requires an entirely different and long discussion but ill refrain from that here) than people would like to admit (outliers apply of course).
and sometimes "feel stuff in my bones" are the best reads. you cant articulate it you just vibe it.
but yeah like, ive literally never heard a negative word about you (i know we have not played tooooo much but still) and think you should give yourself more credit! youve been a delight and fun this game and i think youve been doing pretty well so no need to fret
ok what were the upgrades/inversions?
Jan turned from rb/angel to rb/angel/option to kill? and remove from all chats?
maple went from giving cards to self to giving cards to others?
was there any other?
Question for everyone:
Do you think anyone in this game hasn't been attempting to solve anything? Just kind of having little stints in the thread to keep their visibility up and talking about whatever the current major topic is but never really branching off on their own trains of thought about things nobody else is talking about?
EnderWiggin
08-19-2024, 23:47
I'm awake. Will be multitasking with other things but will be around.
theknightsofneeee
08-19-2024, 23:47
Oh boy
Every person I ISO I come out with a villa read.
Wolves are playing exceptionally well.
I'm awake. Will be multitasking with other things but will be around.
ARE WE IN THE THREAD AT THE SAME TIME FOR THE NEXT THIRTY MINUTES BEFORE I GO
ITS ABOUT TIME
Ender can you full claim for me please? With targets why you chose them etc
theknightsofneeee
08-19-2024, 23:49
Ender’s treatment of me feels like solvey villager, I liked him saying he didn’t think one thing I said was villagers.
His doubt on me after Dolby flip feels genuine too.
Maybe it’s just wisdom and I’m bad lmao
Oh boy
Every person I ISO I come out with a villa read.
Wolves are playing exceptionally well.
the downside of games where everyone is awesome is that the games are hard :(
EnderWiggin
08-19-2024, 23:50
EnderWiggin did u actually claim yet? Ladd said you should and i've read different stuff about u and im not sure whats what here now wrt you.
1. I'm not inverter like Monty was claiming and Knights is now following up.
Also I think inverter is town just from how their actions have played out.
2. Fine I'll claim,
I was enhancer. Tried to hit Stett N1. That didn't work for some reason I'm still not sure of.
I was inverted N3.
I now can copy a power. I copied Maple's power (I know how it reads now which is part of why today opened with me townreading them.) and realised after doing so that this could have been a good way to check Wisdom and/or fish in the unclaimed for people.
But one of my villa reads will have a card tonight in addition to the card Maple's giving out.
Ender’s treatment of me feels like solvey villager, I liked him saying he didn’t think one thing I said was villagers.
His doubt on me after Dolby flip feels genuine too.
Maybe it’s just wisdom and I’m bad lmao
if benneh is a lost wolf and wisdom is just a wolf im gonna blame FLIPLESS
if benneh is a normal wolf and wisdom is just a wolf im gonna blame uh, idk ill find a scapegoat for my failure
if wisdom is a villager obviously im great and the best and i deserve head pats
EnderWiggin
08-19-2024, 23:51
Ender can you full claim for me please? With targets why you chose them etc
I only have 2 targets and idk what else to say about em. But feel free to poke me questions?
1. I'm not inverter like Monty was claiming and Knights is now following up.
Also I think inverter is town just from how their actions have played out.
2. Fine I'll claim,
I was enhancer. Tried to hit Stett N1. That didn't work for some reason I'm still not sure of.
I was inverted N3.
I now can copy a power. I copied Maple's power (I know how it reads now which is part of why today opened with me townreading them.) and realised after doing so that this could have been a good way to check Wisdom and/or fish in the unclaimed for people.
But one of my villa reads will have a card tonight in addition to the card Maple's giving out.
oh hell yeah lets go
EnderWiggin
08-19-2024, 23:54
Also given how:
1. Inverter means a different thing in terms of Tarot
2. All targets have technically been "powered up" (Which makes me feel a little redundant ngl)
3. The targets were Maple > Jan > Me that we know
I'm more inclined to think the Inverter is also a town role.
Like does a wolf really give a power up to Maple (Who claims it's a power up in thread) then target widely townread Jan to make them a stronger jailkeeper? I'm not argue the use on me was town because I technically baited it intentionally because I was rather disillusioned by my own role previously in this game. Also people are sussing me again lmao.
ok
if jan and dolby and ender are all calling maple town then maple is just town yo
this also makes me feel like inverter is town too cause like, they keep hitting town PRs and t he town PRs keep saying their roles are better and they find them towny so we should have a hidden villager somewhere so huge game
Also given how:
1. Inverter means a different thing in terms of Tarot
2. All targets have technically been "powered up" (Which makes me feel a little redundant ngl)
3. The targets were Maple > Jan > Me that we know
I'm more inclined to think the Inverter is also a town role.
Like does a wolf really give a power up to Maple (Who claims it's a power up in thread) then target widely townread Jan to make them a stronger jailkeeper? I'm not argue the use on me was town because I technically baited it intentionally because I was rather disillusioned by my own role previously in this game. Also people are sussing me again lmao.
100% agree
EnderWiggin
08-19-2024, 23:59
With regards to Wisdom I am in a torn spot.
Based entirely on their posting + that weird ass section of thread where they felt like they were trying to provoke me to do busy work I have wanted to wolfread them.
But their interactions with Benneh are...
Some of the stronger spew IMO.
And you don't even need to take my word for it. Dead Villa Dya also basically repeated all of my spew reads without realising they were echoing me. They also found Wisdom townier off the Spew.
(This is where Sunbae is right and Benneh was lost wolf)
So if I say:
Maple town
Ender town
Grr town
Insomnia town
and I also say enough people have Gemma town that i roll with it for now as my lowest town read
and i say mont/wisdom doesnt make sense
gemma/knights doesnt make sense
Then the team should be:
Wisdom Or Monte + Knights or Gemma + Vanta?
With regards to Wisdom I am in a torn spot.
Based entirely on their posting + that weird ass section of thread where they felt like they were trying to provoke me to do busy work I have wanted to wolfread them.
But their interactions with Benneh are...
Some of the stronger spew IMO.
And you don't even need to take my word for it. Dead Villa Dya also basically repeated all of my spew reads without realising they were echoing me. They also found Wisdom townier off the Spew.
(This is where Sunbae is right and Benneh was lost wolf)
yeahhhh
EnderWiggin
08-20-2024, 00:08
So if I say:
Maple town
Ender town
Grr town
Insomnia town
and I also say enough people have Gemma town that i roll with it for now as my lowest town read
and i say mont/wisdom doesnt make sense
gemma/knights doesnt make sense
Then the team should be:
Wisdom Or Monte + Knights or Gemma + Vanta?
I feel bad for the fact that I'm POEing Vanta harder as time goes on. But also yeah they're definitely slipping into priority solving slot for me.
Especially if I stick to my gut on Spew Reads.
I feel bad for the fact that I'm POEing Vanta harder as time goes on. But also yeah they're definitely slipping into priority solving slot for me.
Especially if I stick to my gut on Spew Reads.
I guess Id first like to be sure that mont/wisdom doesnt make sense cause i do suppose that like, benneh was going there maybe the wolves expected wisdom to be dead soon and started the bus then let people make mistakes with ladd/dolby instead let me go see monts posting eods
very funni game ender
Game can't end tomorrow mechanically. Most brutal defeat is if Wisdom/knights t/t, despite Wisdom's everything and knights only voting ladd and town PRs (3 of them!) besides his syn vote.
wait is this true about knights lmao
theknightsofneeee
08-20-2024, 00:13
Okay I think it’s just wisdom? The solving is pretty lackluster today, seems content with his Poe/reads which is weird because it’s been obvious that one of us was getting elimed today, didn’t really bother to solve my slot one way or the other, still seems fixated on maple!w when that seems obviously not the world after Dolby claim/Jan not executing.
I guess it’s just a fake claim and I’m bad.
theknightsofneeee
08-20-2024, 00:15
wait is this true about knights lmao
Technically Ladd probably wasn’t a PR :curtain:
Saving posts for EOD, I’ll build a big post to respond to insomnia/sunbae, anyone else has questions pls ping I’ll respond to all at once
Vote: wisdom
need a bad bitch to post an updated vc
Players Votes
Wisdom 3 (Montmorency, Gemma, Theknightsofneeee)
Theknightsofneeee 3 (grr, EnderWiggin, insomnia)
Gemma 1 (Wisdom)
whatthistextdo
I'll repeat for anyone with sus on Ender, Gemma, or Insomnia.
Based on votes, if Wisdom is scum those players have excellent voting records, being Wisdom pushers and voters (I think all of them would also have pushed at least one other confirmed scum). Other players have layed out that their posting patterns, tone, and interactions with neb et al. are towny. If Wisdom is town, we're already on the road to defeat. If Wisdom is scum, it's our game to lose.
It would be sad to lose the game because we just kept fumbling the ouster of the player more of the player list has suspected than any other but, like, syn.
OK, seriously, everyone understands that if Wisdom is scum, she spews 3 players clear. Look at the votes and interactions. She has the weakest PR claim, has been saved under fishy circumstances every day (once by flipped mafia), has been pushed by a string of townies and town-cred individuals, and has a lot of textual arguments against her. Also, a pretty atrocious POE, not that that's very AI right now.
Maple remains self-clearing.
Insomnia has offered better town-type play and votes than anyone alive btw. I don't know how people can compare themselves to Insomnia tbh.
grr plz do more complete vote histories
If Wisdom is town, the POE is completely open and the team could kind of be anyone. Could be some stupid team like grr-vanta-sunbae. We flatly lose, no chance, if Wisdom is town. We probably box Mafia out and win if she's scum. So...
https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.1267226561.5482/flat,750x,075,f-pad,750x1000,f8f8f8.webp
If you want to solve Gemma, the priority should be flipping Wisdom.
meh hmmm
I'll repeat for anyone with sus on Ender, Gemma, or Insomnia.
Based on votes, if Wisdom is scum those players have excellent voting records, being Wisdom pushers and voters (I think all of them would also have pushed at least one other confirmed scum). Other players have layed out that their posting patterns, tone, and interactions with neb et al. are towny. If Wisdom is town, we're already on the road to defeat. If Wisdom is scum, it's our game to lose.
It would be sad to lose the game because we just kept fumbling the ouster of the player more of the player list has suspected than any other but, like, syn.
OK, seriously, everyone understands that if Wisdom is scum, she spews 3 players clear. Look at the votes and interactions. She has the weakest PR claim, has been saved under fishy circumstances every day (once by flipped mafia), has been pushed by a string of townies and town-cred individuals, and has a lot of textual arguments against her. Also, a pretty atrocious POE, not that that's very AI right now.
Maple remains self-clearing.
Insomnia has offered better town-type play and votes than anyone alive btw. I don't know how people can compare themselves to Insomnia tbh.
grr plz do more complete vote histories
If Wisdom is town, the POE is completely open and the team could kind of be anyone. Could be some stupid team like grr-vanta-sunbae. We flatly lose, no chance, if Wisdom is town. We probably box Mafia out and win if she's scum. So...
https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.1267226561.5482/flat,750x,075,f-pad,750x1000,f8f8f8.webp
Players Votes
Wisdom 3 (Montmorency, Gemma, Theknightsofneeee)
Theknightsofneeee 3 (grr, EnderWiggin, insomnia)
Gemma 1 (Wisdom)
whatthistextdo
aw beans
time for me to agonize on wisdom vs knights for 20 minutes before ultimately learning they were w/w or v/v
Montmorency
08-20-2024, 00:43
wait is this true about knights lmao
See grr's vote history compilation from SOD today. Although note that D1's history was never complete; it's missing unvotes and all votes by ladd. There may be other inaccuracies I'm unaware of. But it's not MU!
Montmorency
08-20-2024, 00:45
Does no one else want Maple to just claim their N4 already? Sheesh.
Grr push on you noted but j won't be alive tmr so ya know
That's a great reason to legacy your action history this EOD.
I only have 2 targets and idk what else to say about em. But feel free to poke me questions?
Glad to settle for good that inverter and upgrader are distinct roles here, but why not act N3? I'll reread D4 after this, so you don't have to answer if you think it's sufficiently explained.
Also given how:
1. Inverter means a different thing in terms of Tarot
2. All targets have technically been "powered up" (Which makes me feel a little redundant ngl)
3. The targets were Maple > Jan > Me that we know
I'm more inclined to think the Inverter is also a town role.
Like does a wolf really give a power up to Maple (Who claims it's a power up in thread) then target widely townread Jan to make them a stronger jailkeeper? I'm not argue the use on me was town because I technically baited it intentionally because I was rather disillusioned by my own role previously in this game. Also people are sussing me again lmao.
If I were m-knights, I would fakeclaim inverter at -5 minutes and PR-hunt overnight to try to lock myself with no CC.
No one claim inverter today, it's too late.
Please do pass me a card however. Maybe it'll be the suicide card.
EnderWiggin
08-20-2024, 00:52
Glad to settle for good that inverter and upgrader are distinct roles here, but why not act N3? I'll reread D4 after this, so you don't have to answer if you think it's sufficiently explained.
Um.
Annoyed at the Ladd flash wagon and didn't think about putting an action in at all.
Which is not a good reason but it's what I got guv.
EnderWiggin
08-20-2024, 00:53
Just remember to keep podracing until the last 5 minutes where we all flash wagon Gemma.
It'll be a funny way to re-create Ladd's death.
Yeah I would lean Monty based on vibes/Monty has gotten no heat from anyone despite being in multiple pie’s yesterday.
Vanta has had villagers posting.
But FMPOV there is likely only 1 villa in insomnia/vanta/Monty/enderwiggen
And idk who lol
Am I misremembering something or did Monty have a claim? Can someone remind me?
But FMPOV there is likely only 1 villa in insomnia/vanta/Monty/enderwiggen
enderwiggen
https://youtu.be/HCpRt-3SMWE?si=dr0y7-m1FtascVBp
Just remember to keep podracing until the last 5 minutes where we all flash wagon Gemma.
It'll be a funny way to re-create Ladd's death.
genuinely down for that to happen rn, i won't self vote but i will pop bottles
peeps in thread who do yall think is most trustworthy to receive a card tonight? ive been relatively conservative so far mostly looking for protective powers, but there's a real chance that the card im looking at is gonna be a cop or vigi
peeps in thread who do yall think is most trustworthy to receive a card tonight? ive been relatively conservative so far mostly looking for protective powers, but there's a real chance that the card im looking at is gonna be a cop or vigi
me
they cant kill me
GIMMIE
MY BLOODLUST IS READY
theknightsofneeee
08-20-2024, 01:05
i would be interested in hearing your thoughts on day 3
That was the "probably kill maple or wisdom" -> "well jan claimed to be inverted and can take care of maple so lets go elsewhere" -> "flash wagon on ladd" day
in as much detail as possible
My thoughts are mostly selfish wrt that day because I was relatively uninvested for the first half of the day.
The day started and I was still laser honed in on Jan, the Rask elim made a world where wolf!jan used “villa”!rask to try and clear wolf!syn very plausible. I hated most of the claims (maples claim/Jan’s claim) but thought wisdom claim was def plausible, and I didn’t really give much thought to wisdom past that because I was super locked on jan.
I think I still had a slight villa read on maple at SOD but thought his claim was super weird so I dropped that.
The day plays out and I realized the later it gets that jan is either a) telling the truth and needs to be able to prove himself or b) lying about his role and letting it play out for a day will make it easier to lunch a claimed PR.
And I thought jailkeeper turning into jailor was silly (still do), but it was probably +EV to let it play out.
So I don’t have a wolf read on wisdom, don’t want to touch maple/jan and I have no major wolf read I want to push.
But throughout the day Ladd was doing the thing that I super associate with his wolf game where he soft sets up his progression on wolfread villas that he wants to push, testing the waters, then only commits towards EOD, to me.
His treatment of me day 1 was also very similar too, but he backed off it when it came to EOD, which is part of why I eventually villa read him on day 1.
But his wolf read on me day 3 felt even more weird than day 1, because he knows that I am a pretty polarized player, and if I push a wolf, especially early, I’m probably just villa. And he’s seen me be in active villa and get lynched for it.
So felt like he was going for a quick dunk on me while I was disengaged.
I read a benneh read on Ladd which super lined up with my perspective and helped cement the read.
So I went pretty hard on it.
I think vanta’s EOD 3 wrt vote on Ladd was villagers, I forget who else it was? Maybe ender? Was less villagers than vanta but not wolfy.
The day felt like DADV when wisdom was in the lead, and the energy/excitement was in the Ladd wagon.
insomnia afaik I have already answered most questions you had? Especially my villa read on sunbae. If there’s something you want to know pls quote it or ask again, sorry
Monty I already hardclaimed VT at eod yesterday
@ sunbae talk to me about your reasoning for voting me. I think I’ve been pretty out of my wolf range today so I’m surprised you voted me.
Montmorency
08-20-2024, 01:07
Best to give it to me, as long as it's not a vig, because I know exactly who to vig and it's not consensus*. Otherwise, I don't know, 69 with Ender, who cares anymore.
*Alternatively I just vig the thunderdome survivor
Best to give it to me, as long as it's not a vig, because I know exactly who to vig and it's not consensus*. Otherwise, I don't know, 69 with Ender, who cares anymore.
*Alternatively I just vig the thunderdome survivor
my gut tells me that this is post was not written by a wolf. this is the general vibes im getting from this player a lot. again i have never played with them so i don't know their ranges but in a vacuum i think this is a villager.
genuinely down for that to happen rn, i won't self vote but i will pop bottles
this is also more of a villager post, that being said i kinda think gemma probably has a better wolfgame than montmorency which is a weird thing for me to think because i haven't seen any of their wolf games so I'm not sure how I even have this read.
well im certainly dying tonight
the person i gave a thing to last night evidently doesnt want to claim, gonna give someone else something tonight in case they havent used it yet
meow
can we stop podracing and just yeet wisdom
at this very moment im *slightly* leaning killing knights
but im obviously not sold yet
still thinking
i mostly just refresh the thread once in a while to check if insomnia has said anything. shrug. 2am brain cant do more it is what it is.
idk ill just even it up so yall can decide cause i gotta go
hey grr do you want a card
EnderWiggin
08-20-2024, 01:25
I'm ngl I'm nursing some kind of Monty/Grr tinfoil atm.
aw fuck i have the hammer
EnderWiggin
08-20-2024, 01:26
That was a crosspost of all time lmao.
EnderWiggin
08-20-2024, 01:26
aw fuck i have the hammer
Vote: Wisdom
Here lemme relieve you of that burden.
so im pretty convinced at this point that there *is* no inverter, and that people are being inverted for mechanical reasons
be it "a card is randomly drawn each night to be inverted" or there's a pre-set list of roles that get inverted each day.
missing days are wolves, perhaps
Players Votes
Wisdom 5 (Montmorency, Gemma, EnderWiggin, Theknightsofneeee, Sunbae)
Theknightsofneeee 2 (grr, insomnia)
Gemma 1 (Wisdom)
whatthistextdo
I'm ngl I'm nursing some kind of Monty/Grr tinfoil atm.
have u read kinda any of my wolfgames?
EnderWiggin
08-20-2024, 01:30
so im pretty convinced at this point that there *is* no inverter, and that people are being inverted for mechanical reasons
be it "a card is randomly drawn each night to be inverted" or there's a pre-set list of roles that get inverted each day.
missing days are wolves, perhaps
I kinda like this theory ngl.
Tbh the only reason I have doubt is that my D3 was specifically set to try and bait an Inverter and then I got inverted, so kinda would be coincidinky if that was just a game mech.
Vanta Black
08-20-2024, 01:30
vote Wisdom
Also I would like to get in line for a card please.
me being wolfread at 2am for being tired is one of my favorite things in mafia btw. (especially since id be asleep instead of tired if i was a wolf lol)
EnderWiggin
08-20-2024, 01:31
have u read kinda any of my wolfgames?
Guv, I barely have time to keep up with thread.
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