Capo de Tutti Capi - II [Concluded]

[LittleGrizzly]

Sigurd have you made more of an effort than just contacting CR and Sasaki, if Sigurd is a potential threat give him a task to fail so we now he's guilty or do which would stop him doing any harm..

[Crazed Rabbit]

I find it incredulous Sigurd, masterful player that he is, could be this far in the game and not have a group of people he's working with, much less not even been a part of any group.

Also, he didn't contact me, I contacted him. Unfortunately no others besides Sigurd said they could help.

CR

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Oh... here is a little gem from the role descriptions in Seamus' other thread:



Whoever gave this FBI investigation on me must have it wrong, or might be a made giving false information.
There are grounds to question every one of those investigations.

As you surely recall from the last game he FBI detective could indeed find the Don. And that was in he last game. Jimbob mentioned that you'd been investigated twice hinting at a new feature.


As I recall from our pm conversation when I tried to get you to join a protection group you "promised nothing" and said it would "depend on the people". It that people who didn't show up were right up your ally.

[TinCow]

I would like to post a correction to JimBob's list of mafia members. I was the one who gave him the evidence about TruePraetorian. That evidence was based on something that was written in the N6 write-up. Seamus has confirmed to me that he made an error in that part of the write-up. Accordingly, the reason I had to suspect TruePraetorian is invalid. I see no reason to believe that he is mafia and I consider him to be a trustworthy townie. Apologies for the confusion.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Some Comments:

The posting of screen shots or their use in private communication are always illegal, even of the thread itself -- except if you're posting a screenie SOLELY to me. I can screw up my own game, but I can't really cheat in it.

Griz' may have edited a vote -- CR, certainly seems to believe so -- which I have stated I would "wog" for. I am, as always, loathe to remove someone from play.

Edit what you will, but NOT the vote itself. Put any changes in a new post.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Griz' may have edited a vote -- CR, certainly seems to believe so -- which I have stated I would "wog" for. I am, as always, loathe to remove someone from play.

Just to clarify and make sure the wrong person doesn't get the WoG, CR is claiming that Hiji edited his vote, not LittleGrizzly.

[Crazed Rabbit]

GeneralHankerchief is correct.

Crazed Rabbit

[TruePraetorian]

I will vote:abstain for now. i dont really mind if dg or Sig get lynched...but i doubt we can get a double..weve screwed up EVERY time so far...

I will also Select:JimBob for director..if we do get a double-lynch opportunity he is the only clear pro-town player..and we can be sure he will do the right thing.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

There's been a lack of drame these last couple rounds. We need some controversy to fire things up a bit.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Just to clarify and make sure the wrong person doesn't get the WoG, CR is claiming that Hiji edited his vote, not LittleGrizzly.

Actually it was little grizzly...what are you playing at GH? :inquisitive:

[Csargo]

I herd something about u.

[Cowhead418]

Vote: Sigurd and Select: JimBob

I really hate to let Dutch_guy off yet another round, but if we can catch a Mafia Don we have to go for it.

[CountArach]

I shall Select: JimBob before I forget. I didn't trust him before, but after Glenn's death, I think we can now.

Lynch Tally:
Dutch Guy:10 (Caius, Hiji,Craterus, Mak, CA, BSR, Charge, EMFM,T'blade, LittleGrizzly)
Sigurd: 10 (Kag,Xehh II,Sasaki, Scott,Tran, CR, Sarathos, Northnovas, TinCow, CowHead)
CR: 1 (shlin)
Abstain: 1 (Praetorian)

Director Tally:
Jimbob: 8 (Sasaki, Xehh II, Hiji, Scott, CR, Northnovas, TinCow, CA)
Tincow: 1 (Tran)
LittleGrizzly: 1 (LittleGrizzly)

EDIT: Fixed the tally

[Csargo]

Select:Jimbob

I think the vote is good enough for now.

[Haudegen]

I shall Select: JimBob before I forget. I didn't trust him before, but after Glenn's death, I think we can now.

Lynch Tally:
Dutch Guy:10 (Caius, Hiji,Craterus, Mak, CA, BSR, Charge, EMFM,T'blade, LittleGrizzly)
Sigurd: 10 (Kag,Xehh II,Sasaki, Scott,Tran, CR, Sarathos, Northnovas, TinCow, CowHead)
CR: 1 (shlin)
Abstain: 1 (Praetorian)

Director Tally:
Jimbob: 8 (Sasaki, Xehh II, Hiji, Scott, CR, Northnovas, TinCow, CA)
Tincow: 1 (Tran)
LittleGrizzly: 1 (LittleGrizzly)

EDIT: Fixed the tally

Caius hasn´t boldened his vote, IMHO it doesn´t count: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=1838611#post1838611

I´ll jump in his place.
vote: dutch guy
Select: JimBob

Lynch Tally:
Dutch Guy:10 (Hiji,Craterus, Mak, CA, BSR, Charge, EMFM,T'blade, LittleGrizzly, Haudegen)
Sigurd: 10 (Kag,Xehh II,Sasaki, Scott,Tran, CR, Sarathos, Northnovas, TinCow, CowHead)
CR: 1 (shlin)
Abstain: 1 (Praetorian)

Director Tally:
Jimbob: 8 (Sasaki, Xehh II, Hiji, Scott, CR, Northnovas, TinCow, CA)
Tincow: 1 (Tran)
LittleGrizzly: 1 (LittleGrizzly)

Please check the tally again, to avoid disappointments later.

[Sarathos]

I almost forgot, Select:Jimbob. Known and trusted

CurrentTally:
Dutch Guy:10 (Hiji,Craterus, Mak, CA, BSR, Charge, EMFM,T'blade, LittleGrizzly, Haudegen)
Sigurd: 10 (Kag,Xehh II,Sasaki, Scott,Tran, CR, Sarathos, Northnovas, TinCow, CowHead)
CR: 1 (shlin)
Abstain: 1 (Praetorian)

Director Tally:
Jimbob: 10 (Sasaki, Xehh II, Hiji, Scott, CR, Northnovas, TinCow, CA, Haudegen ,Sarathos)
Tincow: 1 (Tran)
LittleGrizzly: 1 (LittleGrizzly)

[Crazed Rabbit]

Caius hasn´t boldened his vote, IMHO it doesn´t count: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=1838611#post1838611

I´ll jump in his place.
vote: dutch guy
Select: JimBob

Lynch Tally:
Dutch Guy:10 (Hiji,Craterus, Mak, CA, BSR, Charge, EMFM,T'blade, LittleGrizzly, Haudegen)
Sigurd: 10 (Kag,Xehh II,Sasaki, Scott,Tran, CR, Sarathos, Northnovas, TinCow, CowHead)
CR: 1 (shlin)
Abstain: 1 (Praetorian)

Director Tally:
Jimbob: 8 (Sasaki, Xehh II, Hiji, Scott, CR, Northnovas, TinCow, CA)
Tincow: 1 (Tran)
LittleGrizzly: 1 (LittleGrizzly)

Please check the tally again, to avoid disappointments later.

Haudegen - We should put Sigurd ahead on the tally. Especially since Caius' vote may count.

Don't tie the vote up - lynch Sigurd. Get him at least several votes ahead.

CR

[Haudegen]

Haudegen - We should put Sigurd ahead on the tally. Especially since Caius' vote may count.


4. Explanation Part Two: Having reviewed my rules, as well as the customs of the Gameroom, I am forced to list Sarathos’ vote for Xdeathfire in post #2065 as a valid vote. That post, which even noted a reason valid within the context of the then-current discussion to support that vote, was properly bolded, formatted, and never subsequently changed. Despite his own protestation that his first vote had been for Dutch_guy (see post #2076) which was correct, the Capo rules do not invalidate any vote that fails to use the “unvote” format and the customs of the Gameroom and of this game have been to accept a change of vote merely by the imposition of a properly bolded vote for a new name. Once properly listed I will count it until changed -- even if ill considered. This produces the count above.


Bolding a vote seems to be essential, regarding what Seamus wrote after the last day phase. Anyway I have pmed Seamus about this question, just to be sure.



Don't tie the vote up - lynch Sigurd. Get him at least several votes ahead.

CR

Even if we get only one of them at the end, it´d be ok, IMHO.

I´m hoping for some townies to prevent any sabotages, that are likely to come from Dutch guy or Sigurd. I for one won´t be online when the phase ends. But some of our noble townies hopefully will be.

And with a two way tie, there will be less confusion than last time.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I say we put sigurd 1 vote ahead...he can tie it if he wants to :) and his partners can save him by voting dutch guy if they wish...they'd reveal themselves in the process though. Ideally someone will be around at deadline to make sure it stays a tie though.

[Haudegen]

I say we put sigurd 1 vote ahead...he can tie it if he wants to :) and his partners can save him by voting dutch guy if they wish...they'd reveal themselves in the process though. Ideally someone will be around at deadline to make sure it stays a tie though.

Sounds good.

unvote dutch guy


Lynch Tally:
Dutch Guy:9 (Hiji,Craterus, Mak, CA, BSR, Charge, EMFM,T'blade, LittleGrizzly)
Sigurd: 10 (Kag,Xehh II,Sasaki, Scott,Tran, CR, Sarathos, Northnovas, TinCow, CowHead)
CR: 1 (shlin)
Abstain: 1 (Praetorian)

[ajaxfetish]

Mafia status as of N6:

--Stracchi. Don: Omanes A. (dead), Luca: Dutch Guy, Made: Andres (dead), Former associated wise guy: LouisVI, associated wise guy or made: Tran (according to Louis, Omanes, and JimBob). Calling Card: Pink ballet slippers. Victims: Drisos (detective, N1), Pannonian (wise guy, N3), Motep (N5), Louis VI (N6), attempted hits on GH (N2, N3) and Proletariat (N4, possible Don).

--Corleone. Don: Sigurd (according to JimBob's contacts), Luca: Unknown, Made: Tiberius of the Drake (dead), several unknown associated wise guys. Calling Card: Weather balloons and religious paraphernalia. Victims: Glenn (crusader?, N3), Beefy (townie, N3), The Stranger (townie, N3), GH (N4, wise guy), attempted hits on Glenn (N2) and Proletariat (N4, N5, N6?, possible Don).

--Tataglia. Family member: Makayane (according to JimBob's contacts)

--Barzini.

--Cunnio.

Yellow rose group (whichever family it may be). Don: Unknown, Luca: Unknown, Made: Unknown, associated wise guys if any unknown. Calling Card: Yellow rose and a preference for explosives. Victims: Zorg (wise guy, N3), Moros (N4, wise guy or wolf-type character), Lt. Pinard (N6), possible attempted hit on Proletariat (N4).

Italian Destiny group (whichever family it may be). Don: Unknown, Luca: Unknown, Made: Unknown, associated wise guys if any unknown. Calling Card: an Italian phrase (destiny is inexorable). Victims: Kamikhaan (N5), ajaxfetish (N6).

Other possible calling cards: A black rose was left with Chimpyang's corpse (N5). A white rose was dropped by CR's attempted assailant (N6).

The Stracchi's managed additional hits nights 5 and 6, with both Omanes and Andres dead. I'm assuming Dutch Guy was one of the killers, but he'd need an accomplice, so it's likely Tran is in action along with DG. Louis is clearly not acting in conjunction with the remnants of the family (as they offed him night 6).

Tonight it seems the Corleone's were either inactive (shocker!) or were responsible only for the attempted hit on Prole (as syringes were involved). Might some of their members have been victims in recent nights?

The Tataglia have responded to the Corleones' call for truce, according to TosaInu's second relayed communication.

Omanes suspected Sigurd to be the don of the Barzinis, JimBob is sure he is the don of the Corleones.

----------------------------------------------------

Musings:

xdeathfire and twilightblade have both fled to the police immediately after being attacked (xdeath on N1, twilight on N5). They may have a similar role, and this action would seem to suggest it's a pro-town one.

Lone killers with calling cards or consistent modi operandi
--.577 Webley. A rogue killer of unknown motivation. A single individual using the same weapon shot both Kommodus (N4, luca) and Woad&Fangs (N5).
--King of Hearts. Another lone killer is operating, using knives and leaving King of Hearts playing cards. He participated in killing Woad & Fangs (N5) and Louis VI (N6). In both cases he was not the only killer involved (the .577 Webley guy also targeted Kommodus and the Stracchis also targeted Louis), yet in both cases each of the killers seemed surprised the other was there. This knife wielder has left the words 'dead rat' and 'traitor' on the cards he has left behind, so may be a mafia-aligned character whose objective is killing those who turn on the mafia from within. This is clearly the case for Louis, though Kommodus story is less clear. There is nothing I know of publicly to suggest Kommodus has betrayed his family. However, Sasaki has had access to mafia investigation results (until recently, it seems) and it has been stated in the thread that Kommodus hates playing mafia. Could he have been passing on his family's investigation results to Sasaki? If he were discovered doing so it would explain his killing as a mafia traitor, and his death would explain Sasaki's lack of recent investigation results. Would Sasaki care to confirm or deny this hypothesis?

CR's attack sounded like an attempted mafia hit, but with only one member getting in their orders on time.

Prole continues to be defended by a single individual (either a luca facing relentless but futile attempts on her life or a doctor who's found a seemingly-guaranteed target with which to achieve surgeon status).

Craterus also seemed to be defended by a single individual (I don't know if he had enough public likelihood of attack to justify a doctor's attention) and attacked by two (possibly a mafia group whose calling card just wasn't found).

Society for Creative Anachronism. The medieval connection here is getting weirder and weirder. First we have our holy trio (now down to just our director JimBob), then the Corleones take up religious themes in their killings, and now we have unknown dudes in full crusader getup killing people in the streets. Both a collection of 4 with black crosses and a lone gunman with a red cross targeted FactionHeir. They seemed not to be acting together, but the coincidence of two independent groups targeting the same victim and choosing to wear late medieval religiously-themed military costume is a little overwhelming. What's up with this kill?

My own death. Well, I lasted 6 nights in this my first mafia game, only to fall victim to the Italian Destiny group, whichever family it may be. I was pro-town, but I see no special reason why I was targeted. My night activity was lacklustre at best and my only significant contribution by day (besides voting) is summarizing the nights events and what we seem to know about the mafia families as of yet. This I can do whether I'm alive or dead. Perhaps I was just an easy kill as I seemed likely to be pro-town and unlikely to be protected. :shrug: Anyhow, it's a shame my trusty radio had to die with me, but good luck to my surviving neighbors. May the Fatlington mafia enjoy the cold sleep of the grave.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Post-mortem results:

10 pro-town
Townie: Lord Winter, Beefy, taka, the Stranger, FahadI, killfr3nzy, Sapi, Xiahou
Detective: Drisos
Crusader?: Glenn

7 neutral
Wise Guy: Pevergreen, Hannibal, Pannonian, Zorg, GH, x-Danger, Moros (though Moros may be an unaffiliated mafia member)

3 mafia
Made: Tiberius (Corleone)
Luca: Kommodus (family unknown)
Don: Omanes (Stracchi)

Ajax

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Dons can actually kill in vigilante groups while their family is still alive. They can also protect in these groups, although they have no protection value.

e.g. Don, T1 and T2 protect a player, Don is not counted as being involved so the group techincally only has two players in it.

I would advise going after Sigurd and/or Mayanakane. JimBob seems to be a trustworthy indvidual, so I see no reason for him to lie about this. After they are dead we can see how truthful he is being.

[Makanyane]

Dons can actually kill in vigilante groups while their family is still alive. They can also protect in these groups, although they have no protection value.

e.g. Don, T1 and T2 protect a player, Don is not counted as being involved so the group techincally only has two players in it.

I would advise going after Sigurd and/or Mayanakane. JimBob seems to be a trustworthy indvidual, so I see no reason for him to lie about this. After they are dead we can see how truthful he is being.

Thanks for the advice confirmed ex. Don, Omanes, I'm sure we all trust you......

I'm somewhat confused by all this as I'd just decided I did trust JimBob, and he now seems to be passing some rather dodgy 'reveals' around! It's already been shown that the result on TP wasn't actually a result but a mistaken interpretation of the story thread. And I'd just like to know IF there was a detective result on me saying 'guilty mafioso' from N3, why is it only getting revealed now - by strange coincidence the day after I vote to lynch Don Sasaki (with his oh so helpful Made) in this thread?

I still think JimBob is genuinely trying to be pro-town, but I'm worried he's been got at by some dodgy advisors.



(I can't claim I'd be a great loss to the town - no special role BS to dazzle you with - but if you are going to lynch me could someone at least spell my :daisy: name right?)

[Haudegen]

Dons can actually kill in vigilante groups while their family is still alive. They can also protect in these groups, although they have no protection value.



Are you sure? Seamus clearly said otherwise:


A Don normally cannot kill opponents during a “night” phase, and must work through others. Normally, however, they appear as “innocent” if investigated by a detective or made, so they can camouflage themselves well. Even the FBI detective is unlikely to spot them. If the Don has lost all the other members of her/his family, they may perform 1 kill per “night” phase.

I´m sure Seamus didn´t tell the whole story about Dons here. But I don´t think he would blatantly lie.

[Andres]

Omanes is dead. He cannot reveal any of the info that was in his pm.

However, if he would be lying, he isn't technically revealing.

Omanes would never break the rules of a game.

Draw your own conclusions.

[PershsNhpios]

PROLETARIAT

Is in no way providing an explanation for her constant, inpenetrable protection!
She is not even showing surprise at her brilliant luck!

Now, we KNOW that for the first few rounds she was constantly trying to lynch people who are now confirmed innocents.

GeneralHankerchief being one of them.

I don't like accusing someone of being a Don simply because they had only one protector - but if anyone were to be a don, it would be;

PROLETARIAT

On a simpler note - I was right about Kommodus!

Oh, I told you all to be careful, but ooooooooh no, no Kommodus has Holmes!
Kommodus would never be Mafia, Kommodus HATES being Mafia, besides, Holmes can only be used to detect Mafia!
Mafia wouldn't detect themselves now would they Glenn?
Nooooooooo.

Perhaps I wasn't simply accusing everyone of everything.

----

Oh, and just so everyone can be sure - some Mafia might like to dress up in Mediaeval style - but they are in no way Crusaders..

But I am grateful for the death of FactionHeir.

I would like to say a warm, "I hope you burn", to Faction Heir.

[Sigurd]

I will not go down without at least a little fight.

When contacting Sasaki, he gave me these names for me to work with.
Kamikhaan
Cowhead
Hiji

Kamikhaan and Cowhead both confirmed that they worked with Sasaki.

I expressed my concern that the town was falling quick behind in the effort of getting rid of the mafia and basically asked if he had any vig groups. He said that he didn’t think it would be a point to vigging.
I thanked him for turning me out gently and made a point of contacting the lurkers and try to organise something myself. This was about 20:52 - Sasaki read it 21:36 (All times in GMT+1)

Then I get a pm from CR at 21:41 asking me if I wanted to join a vig group on Dutch.
I accepted. There were a few exchanges of pms but it resulted in CR claiming he hadn’t been able to organise a thing and was sorry he couldn’t be of more help.
This last pm was sent to me at 03:44 and I didn’t read it (I was asleep) until it was too late to organise the lurkers.

What my thoughts are right now on what transpired? I believe Sasaki and CR prevented me from organising vig teams on my own. They clearly saw me as a major threat and cooked up some story to get me lynched.

I am asking you JimBob, do you trust your informant is a FBI agent? CR made a point that the real FBI agent would have contacted him. Well this FBI agent could be dead and hence not able to confirm or invalidate this claim.
Another point Jimbob… Do you have contact with the other detective? The one who got a criminal read on GH?

Vote:Crazed Rabbit

I know I am not Don Corleone and therefore vote the one person who aggressively claim this.
He claims I lie, but there is no difference in my explanation than his. We both agree that he contacted me, I said that I knew someone would block Dutch which is the truth. That he didn't is another matter all together.

[Sarathos]

So basically Sigurd, you just named Sasaki's town group for your mafia buddies to kill in the next night phase. To the extent of my knowledge (which isn't very far mind you) Sasaki has been proven innocent and didn't he go rogue detective? So I don't see the point of naming any names unless its the name of a proven Don, a.k.a. you

[Sigurd]

So basically Sigurd, you just named Sasaki's town group for your mafia buddies to kill in the next night phase. To the extent of my knowledge (which isn't very far mind you) Sasaki has been proven innocent and didn't he go rogue detective? So I don't see the point of naming any names unless its the name of a proven Don, a.k.a. you
They could very well be mafiosi to my knowledge and should be revealed.
If I was Don.. I would have known the identities of them and had them on my target list anyway.

Scummy post Sarathos. Why did you vote Xdeath last round?

[Husar]

[...]but if you are going to lynch me could someone at least spell my :daisy: name right?)
Not sure about the rest of the post, but I agree here, Makanyane.


I expressed my concern that the town was falling quick behind in the effort of getting rid of the mafia and basically asked if he had any vig groups. He said that he didn’t think it would be a point to vigging.
I thanked him for turning me out gently and made a point of contacting the lurkers and try to organise something myself. This was about 20:52 - Sasaki read it 21:36 (All times in GMT+1)

Then I get a pm from CR at 21:41 asking me if I wanted to join a vig group on Dutch.
I accepted. There were a few exchanges of pms but it resulted in CR claiming he hadn’t been able to organise a thing and was sorry he couldn’t be of more help.
This last pm was sent to me at 03:44 and I didn’t read it (I was asleep) until it was too late to organise the lurkers.
Well, he actually asked me whether I knew some people for such an action but I declined, I thought he would likely find them elsewhere but apparently he couldn't. I would now rate this story as neutral as both your versions make sense and are consistent with our PMing.


What my thoughts are right now on what transpired? I believe Sasaki and CR prevented me from organising vig teams on my own. They clearly saw me as a major threat and cooked up some story to get me lynched.
Could be true or not, hard to say, but somewhat undermined by the fact CR asked me whether I knew someone for the vigilante group you wanted to set up.


I am asking you JimBob, do you trust your informant is a FBI agent? CR made a point that the real FBI agent would have contacted him. Well this FBI agent could be dead and hence not able to confirm or invalidate this claim.
Now that is a very important question, a bit more in the form of evidence instead of a list with some hearsay on it would be nice.

Apart from that, I'll
Vote: dutch_guy

[FactionHeir]

Oh, and just so everyone can be sure - some Mafia might like to dress up in Mediaeval style - but they are in no way Crusaders..

But I am grateful for the death of FactionHeir.

I would like to say a warm, "I hope you burn", to Faction Heir.

Any reason for that?

[Sigurd]

Well, he actually asked me whether I knew some people for such an action but I declined, I thought he would likely find them elsewhere but apparently he couldn't. I would now rate this story as neutral as both your versions make sense and are consistent with our PMing.

Hmmm...
So you are basically forgoing your initial suspicion of him being a Don?

What about the apparent Saski - CR connection?
There are somthing fishy going on there. Not to mention yet another claim that I might be a Don from someone obviously trusted in the ranks of JimBob. First Barzini now Corleone. I might go the round of all families before the end of this game.
Am I so little trustworthy?

And CR's statement that it can't be right that I haven't worked up an organisation because I am an experienced player, is pure Argumentum antiquitatem.

[Haudegen]

What about the apparent Saski - CR connection?


Could you elaborate a bit more on that? From what you have written, I gather that you are disappointed you couldn´t form a team with them during night.

Is that all?

[LittleGrizzly]

Griz' may have edited a vote -- CR, certainly seems to believe so -- which I have stated I would "wog" for. I am, as always, loathe to remove someone from play.

Nowhere before this post does CR say i may have edited my vote, he questions me on my vote but doesn't even say the word edit...

Edit what you will, but NOT the vote itself. Put any changes in a new post.

I have not edited a single vote post

Just to clarify and make sure the wrong person doesn't get the WoG, CR is claiming that Hiji edited his vote, not LittleGrizzly.

this is correct,

my voting post
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1838854&postcount=2226

notice the lack of any edit on that post, feel free to double check with any magnifying glasses you have handy...

Hiji's voting post
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1838881&postcount=2230
notice the edit at the end

CR post about vote editing
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1838886&postcount=2233
Notice the way he says Hiji in the first line and then has a qoute from Hiji

Now i don't want to get Hiji wog'd but there seems to be a bit of confusion here

In these 3 posts they discuss the editing
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1838910&postcount=2242
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1838913&postcount=2243
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1838915&postcount=2244

Actually it was little grizzly...what are you playing at GH?

Is this a reason to suspect sasaki or just a simple mistake ?

Sigurd
I have contacted the blocker and he claimed he changed his orders. He can confirm or deny this.

I have heard something about a blocker (memory fails me) so this part sigurd is not nessecarily making up, doesn't prove his innocence though..

Im am starting to become suspicious of CR, he seems absolutley sure of Sigurds guilt, leading the charge against whereas all ive heard is a suspected pro-town (jimbob) had investigation results on him, could the source of the results and the campaign against Sigurd be the mafia's doing ?

Im not saying this is true, but this is why im voting for DutchGuy i made the mistake earlier in the game of voting for someone i suspected less than the candidiate with the most votes (trying for a multi lynch) so this time i wanted to make sure DutchGuy dies.

[LittleGrizzly]

Sorry about the double post but you've all got me slightly paranoid about editing my posts now
(addressing this to glenn's post on prole)

On the constant attacks on prole

Is this a reason to suspect prole ?
do you think this a vig group trying to kill prole ?
Is this mafia trying to kill other mafia despite the supposed mafia truce ?

TBH i would have thought that being attacked indicates town more than mafia, what do you think ?

If there is a vigilante group trying to take prole out come forward now and give your reasons, if she is important enough to attack twice on N4 and then a seperate attack on N5 and N6 then you must something fairly concrete ?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Sasaki, CR even confirmed that it was Hiji. My question is: What are you playing at? :inquisitive:

[Sigurd]

Could you elaborate a bit more on that? From what you have written, I gather that you are disappointed you couldn´t form a team with them during night.

Is that all?
I haven't got more than that I pestered Sasaki about putting a vig group togehter for Dutch and then a few minutes later out of the blue CR contacted me asking if I wanted in on a vig group for Dutch.
I don't believe in thought transfers so I call it a connection. Sasaki must have put word to CR about my interest.

[Haudegen]

I haven't got more than that I pestered Sasaki about putting a vig group togehter for Dutch and then a few minutes later out of the blue CR contacted me asking if I wanted in on a vig group for Dutch.
I don't believe in thought transfers so I call it a connection. Sasaki must have put word to CR about my interest.

Hmm, I think it´s not necessarily scummy if Sasaki tries to bring people together for night actions. Or did you turn down other opportunities because of CR and Sasaki?

And CR informed you ~ 12 hours before the phase´s end that he couldn´t find enough people for the team (03:44 GMT +1). That´s not too bad. I have personally seen team efforts end up much worse in this game. I don´t believe that they intentionally tried to waste your night action. If that were the case, CR would have kept you waiting 8 or 10 hours longer.

[Drisos]

Ok, another piece of a dead man's advice...

Trust Sasaki, Louis and Jimbob...

Dutch needs to die soon, still.. though sigurd may be the best choice for now. Get those vig kills going! they also reveal more mafiosi that are trying to sabotage them (truepraetorian for instance.. for me he was confirmed mafia after getting a 2nd acc and telling it was his brother's, and using it to pm people.. yeah right.. townies don't do the stuff)

anyway.. can we have a good discussion about what is and isn't allowed after death? Seems like Andres is allowing his own irritating behaviour, but trying to kick any info that might help town out because he is on mafia side.. I don't like the situation.

edit: btw Sigurd, why are you lurking, and jump up and start accusing people again when you are in danger of begin lynched?

[Sigurd]

Hmm, I think it´s not necessarily scummy if Sasaki tries to bring people together for night actions. Or did you turn down other opportunities because of CR and Sasaki?

And CR informed you ~ 12 hours before the phase´s end that he couldn´t find enough people for the team (03:44 GMT +1). That´s not too bad. I have personally seen team efforts end up much worse in this game. I don´t believe that they intentionally tried to waste your night action. If that were the case, CR would have kept you waiting 8 or 10 hours longer.
You bring valid points...
But I didn't log back on to the game until 2 hours before the deadline and wouldn't been able to organise anything. CR knows this is the case for us GMT+1, you can't send crucial info smack in the middle of the night and expect us to read them. Husar has come forward and redeemed CR somewhat in this regard.

I'd like to keep my vote on him anyhow, beacuse of what Louis claimed just after the results N6. Remember the line Sasaki put forward about drama (intentional)? A little drama to drown Louis' last dying words.. Words he had to edit.

Finally:
Why was there two investigations on me? both turned up as guilty don. Why waste an investigation that could have uncovered another don? This stinks mafia tactics all through.
I am confident that the FBI agent that supplied Jimbob with investigations is no other than a member of one of the families, maybe a Corleone.

[LittleGrizzly]

Finally:
Why was there two investigations on me? both turned up as guilty don. Why waste an investigation that could have uncovered another don? This stinks mafia tactics all through.


iirc, the first result came back unclear so a second investigation is entirely reasonable

Ok, another piece of a dead man's advice...

Trust Sasaki, Louis and Jimbob...


im pretty sure jimbob's innocent, im fairly sure about louis but i remain unsure about sasaki, can you gaurentee his innocence ? or do you just think he's innocent ?

[Myrddraal]

Wow, a lot has happened.

My thoughts on JimBob's reveal.

I trust Jimbob. This secret society might have it's own special victory conditions, but I think at the moment his plans are pro-town.

However, I'd like Jimbob to comment on the trustworthiness of his source, in particular the FBI detective. How confident are you that the FBI detective is not a Made?

However, the chance to lynch a Don is too good to pass up. So I'll leave the vote as it is.

Vote: Abstain

Select: Jimbob

Lynch Tally:
Dutch Guy:9 (Hiji,Craterus, Mak, CA, BSR, Charge, EMFM,T'blade, LittleGrizzly)
Sigurd: 10 (Kag,Xehh II,Sasaki, Scott,Tran, CR, Sarathos, Northnovas, TinCow, CowHead)
CR: 1 (shlin)
Abstain: 1 (Praetorian)

[Crazed Rabbit]

Why was there two investigations on me? both turned up as guilty don. Why waste an investigation that could have uncovered another don? This stinks mafia tactics all through.
I am confident that the FBI agent that supplied Jimbob with investigations is no other than a member of one of the families, maybe a Corleone.

Where did Jimbob say both investigations turned up as a don? If I remember correctly from last game, didn't the FBI agent get some sort of bonus for investigating twice?

Also, I fail to see how me contacting you to try to organize a group makes me guilty. I prevented you from joining any groups?

Sheesh. Come on Sigurd, give yourself more credit than that.

CR

[Sigurd]

Where did Jimbob say both investigations turned up as a don? If I remember correctly from last game, didn't the FBI agent get some sort of bonus for investigating twice?

I can't say since I dropped out early in Capo I.



Also, I fail to see how me contacting you to try to organize a group makes me guilty. I prevented you from joining any groups?

Sheesh. Come on Sigurd, give yourself more credit than that.

CR
Well... I wasn't able to organise a group because of it and I am not so hung up on that anymore... but I thought it suspicious that you contacted me minutes after my final pm exchange with Sasaki.

Someone has wispered in my ear that the FBI investigation is bogus.
And the timing fits... Dutch and CR for the lynch after Louis' revelation. Then BOOM two investigations (in a row?) concluding that I am Don Corleone. Everybody falls head over heals to vote on this new and confirmed evidence forgetting what transpired just after the write up for night 6.

[Proletariat]

Dutch is guilty, 100% fact. Would like to watch this Sigurd episode unfold a little further, no sense in lynching someone who's suspicious while we have a bona fide mafioso getting away with literally murder every single night.

Vote: Dutch Guy

Tally coming

edit: spelling

[Proletariat]

Lynch Tally:
Dutch Guy:10 (Hiji,Craterus, Mak, CA, BSR, Charge, EMFM,T'blade, LittleGrizzly, Prole)
Sigurd: 10 (Kag,Xehh II,Sasaki, Scott,Tran, CR, Sarathos, Northnovas, TinCow, CowHead)
CR: 1 (shlin)
Abstain: 1 (Praetorian)

[Andres]

Well, you'll probably won't believe me, but I think that last tally is wrong.

[Proletariat]

Where did it go wrong? I used Myrd's and added my vote creating a tie.

[Andres]

Vote : Dutch_guy
Select : Jimbob

I don't think I need to explain myself.

:bow:

[Tran]

Add this:

Apart from that, I'll
Vote: dutch_guy
:bow:

[Riedquat]

And where is Myrd's vote in his own tally?

Oops! I'm not here....

[Joe Monks]

my vote is not on it

[Myrddraal]

And where is Myrd's vote in his own tally?

Oops! I'm not here....

I voted abstain.

Also, I just copied the last tally in the thread. I didn't count myself.

EDIT: Ah I see, I didn't realise that abstain votes were being tallied. Oops.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Sigurd - regarding Louis 'revelation' - last he posted he was backing off of that, saying I wasn't a don. And since I've been found innocent, then that means I'm not a member of the mafia.

Dutch Guy:12 (Hiji,Craterus, Mak, Husar, BKS, CA, BSR, Charge, EMFM,T'blade, LittleGrizzly, Prole)
Sigurd: 10 (Kag,Xehh II,Sasaki, Scott,Tran, CR, Sarathos, Northnovas, TinCow, CowHead)
CR: 1 (shlin)
Abstain: 1 (Praetorian)

So if Prole votes Sigurd we tie it up.

CR

[Joe Monks]

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1838883&postcount=2231

this is my vote where I vote FOR DUTCH GUY!

[Myrddraal]

In which case:

EDIT: I forgot to unvote:
Unvote: Abstain
End of Edit.

Vote: Sigurd

Using CR's Tally:

Dutch Guy:13 (Hiji,Craterus, Mak, Husar, BKS, CA, BSR, Charge, EMFM,T'blade, LittleGrizzly, Prole, Joe Monks)
Sigurd: 11 (Kag,Xehh II,Sasaki, Scott,Tran, CR, Sarathos, Northnovas, TinCow, CowHead, Myrddraal)
CR: 1 (shlin)
Abstain: 1 (Praetorian)

[KukriKhan]

I agree with Prole: Sigurd is suspicious, but first things first; let's finally nuke the Straachi's and get that known killer off our streets.

vote: Dutch_Guy

select: JimBob
let's keep him protected a couple more days while he does the town's work with his detective group.

Tally later, after I comb over all votes since d7 started.

[Craterus]

When does the phase end?

[Pannonian]

When does the phase end?
13:00 EST (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1838661&postcount=14), or 18:00 GMT.

[Crazed Rabbit]

New Tally

Dutch Guy:14 (Hiji,Craterus, Mak, KukriKhan, Husar, BKS, CA, BSR, Charge, EMFM,T'blade, LittleGrizzly, Prole, Joe Monks)
Sigurd: 11 (Kag,Xehh II,Sasaki, Scott,Tran, CR, Sarathos, Northnovas, TinCow, CowHead, Myrddraal)
CR: 1 (shlin)
Abstain: 1 (Praetorian)

CR

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Interesting. Look at the list of people voting for dutch guy (and keep sigurd out of it)



Dutch Guy:14 (Hiji,Craterus, Mak, KukriKhan, Husar, BKS, CA, BSR, Charge, EMFM,T'blade, LittleGrizzly, Prole, Joe Monks)

Some of the others are questionable as well...


And Sigurd, what is your defense exactly? The FBI detective isn't an FBI detective? Your innocent because me and CR pm'd you on the same day? That when I supplied you with the names of people who were looking for a group I was trying to prevent you from forming a group? What were you doing on all the nights previous?

[KukriKhan]

So, you've changed your mind on Dutch_Guy since here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1837658&postcount=2139)?


DG and tran are still going to have to be priority unless they die tonight.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

hmm gosh that's suspicious of me, can't think what made decide that sigurd was a priority instead...wait a minute I seem to remember something about an FBI detective saying something about a mafia don... ~;)

[KukriKhan]

Not suspicious, just inconsistent.

Comparing an alleged FBI detective's report to a self-admitted killer of an almost-but-not-yet decimated mafia family... I agree Sigurd merits suspicion, but, IMO ridding our streets of a killer who will kill again tonight is a higher-priority action. Even if Sigurd is a Don, he won't personally kill tonight.

[Andres]

Ridding yourself of the last remaining mafiosi of a nearly defeated family vs. ridding yourself of the Don of a family that is able to perform multiple hits each night.

I know I'm biased, but if I were town, I would know who to vote :shrug:

What more do you need? A confirmed pro town player (Jimbob) who gives you the FBI DETECTIVE'S RESULTS on several mafia family members, including a Don, yet you guys keep focusing on the lonely survivor of a defeated family :inquisitive:

No pressure whatsoever on any of the suspects named by Jimbob, except for Sigurd :inquisitive:

What is this? Where are the townies in this game?

[Proletariat]

Get with the Fatlington townie program, Kukri. It's a tradition since something like N2 to lynch suspicious players while confirmed mafia roams freely.

[KukriKhan]

Get with the Fatlington townie program, Kukri. It's a tradition since something like N2 to lynch suspicious players while confirmed mafia roams freely.

:laugh4: :laugh4:

[Andres]

Poor Sasaki. All this effort to find more mafia and lynch them, yet the majority of the townies (?) prefer to focus on the only family that matters in this game:

:belly: The Stracci stars! :belly:

[FactionHeir]

Is this some moderator-only page or so? :laugh4:
Still wondering what Glenn meant by his last message...

Oh, and what can a dead person still do and say?

[Charge]

hmmmm ..... Unclear result from FBI on Ichigo? http://rbrally.gamenavigator.ru/forum/images/smilies/think.gif


The investigation will list the individual as innocent (Townie, Don), criminal (Luca, Made not killing, Wise Guy not having killed at all, and some townies), or guilty

[Andres]

Oh, and what can a dead person still do and say?

:faq:


The dead may post, but not vote/select nor carry out any night actions. Dead players may not reveal their roles publicly or privately until that role has been revealed as per section V and may not reveal their “familiy” or role particulars even after that time. Dead players may not quote from a PM unless that PM has been posted in the public thread by a living player. Dead players may not reveal, recount or allude to their previous night actions (or results thereof in the case of investigations) publicly or privately – even to confirm a previously made public or private reveal. Remember, even if dead you can still score well provided your “side” achieves victory. Your participation must be circumspect, but your continued participation IS encouraged.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Not suspicious, just inconsistent.

Comparing an alleged FBI detective's report to a self-admitted killer of an almost-but-not-yet decimated mafia family... I agree Sigurd merits suspicion, but, IMO ridding our streets of a killer who will kill again tonight is a higher-priority action. Even if Sigurd is a Don, he won't personally kill tonight.


If a couple people switched we could lynch both. Sigurd is more important because don's can't be vig killed.

[Sigurd]

And Sigurd, what is your defense exactly? The FBI detective isn't an FBI detective? Your innocent because me and CR pm'd you on the same day? That when I supplied you with the names of people who were looking for a group I was trying to prevent you from forming a group? What were you doing on all the nights previous?

You told me you were totally against vig groups. Are you afraid that we might stumble on some of your henchmen?
I did mention that keeping a contact with a Made would incriminate you. And it still does.

The FBI agent investigations on me are all a hoax and I know this because someone gave me some information on how the real FBI investigations work (and it was not from a made).
Apparently the FBI agent only has a 1/36 chance in finding a Don. If the FBI agent does a double investigation on the same player it is reduced to a 1/18 chance. In other words it would be pointless to do double investigations.
Since I know I am not a Don I must conclude that JimBob got this information from someone working for the mafia.
And since the only two players still pushing this theory is Sasaki and CR.. I must therefore also conclude that they are mafia.

And I didn't see Louis move away from his allegations that CR was a Don. Louis should publically do so for all of us to see.

[Dutch_guy]

Guys, can't we try for a double lynch ?


:balloon2:

[Sigurd]

Vote:Dutch_guy

[Dutch_guy]

You realise that vote was completely unnecessary considering the current tally, right?

:balloon2:

[Myrddraal]

hmmmm ..... Unclear result from FBI on Ichigo? http://rbrally.gamenavigator.ru/forum/images/smilies/think.gif

JimBob clearly has more than one detective contact. Look at the no of investigations.

On that note:

Any news from JimBob on the reliability of his source?

[ajaxfetish]

Why, oh why is anyone listening to Andres' comments on voting and tallies? How many times has he lied to throw off the tally? How many times has he helped Dutch Guy successfully avoid the noose for another day? How many nights (including recently) have the Stracchi's attempted or committed murder? (every one)

Andres makes one post 'pointing out' a BKS vote for Dutch Guy, and it makes it into every tally since. BKS hasn't posted in this thread since February 6 (15 days ago). Andres has been trying to throw suspicion on BKS to divert attention from the Stracchis and using him as one of his fake votes to mess up the tally. BKS has not voted for Dutch Guy, and DG's numbers according to the current tally are at least one vote higher than they really are (so if you try for a double lynch he'll get off once again).

Please. Please take BKS off the tally. Please someone go back and double-check all the other votes to make sure Andres or others aren't continually succeeding in messing up town coordination. And please, by all means ignore Andres' 'helpful' suggestions on the tally from this point forward. There's no excuse for letting Dutch Guy survive another day.



And this, DG, is absolutely classic! :bow:

Guys, can't we try for a double lynch ?


:balloon2:
Ajax

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Day 7 voting selection is concluded. I will go back and establish an actual count.

Night PM's may begin, and are due no later than 1300 22 Feb 08 (1800 GMT).

[Crazed Rabbit]

The FBI agent investigations on me are all a hoax and I know this because someone gave me some information on how the real FBI investigations work (and it was not from a made).
Apparently the FBI agent only has a 1/36 chance in finding a Don. If the FBI agent does a double investigation on the same player it is reduced to a 1/18 chance. In other words it would be pointless to do double investigations.


More anonymous sources. You clearly don't trust me, but JimBob is confirmed pro-town. So why don't you send your contact name to him so JimBob can find out the truth?

And how do you know this person who gave you the 'real' info is speaking truthfully? If he's the FBI detective, let him contact JimBob.

Now, on the one hand we have a confirmed townie saying the FBI detective told him Sigurd is Don Corleone.

We have that accused don saying it's false, accusing his attackers of being mafia, and then producing 'evidence', which conveniently no one else can see.

Sasaki - we can vig kill Dons if their lucas aren't protecting them and are trying to kill instead. Even a luca protection would provide yet more evidence Sigurd is the don.

CR

[Myrddraal]

If he's the FBI detective, let him contact JimBob.

And on that note, if there are any FBI detectives out there not in touch with JimBob, I think they should take the plunge and get in touch. JimBob has provided us with a lynch list. If this list prooves to be false we won't have much time to win the game once we're done lynching the false suspects.

So it's do or die I think. Genuine detectives should get in touch with JimBob. If it turns out JimBob is manipulating the town, then very well played to him, but I somehow doubt it given Glenn's post mortem.

[Csargo]

I quit.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

“I can feel them, they're here.
The howling winds of war.
You can sense them.
They are bad omens.
You can see the death dealing hordes….
There's no reason.
There's no rhyme.
They will bring eternal night.
Oh no!
It's too late to turn back now.
A soldier lives to die.”
-- Yngwie Malmsteen



Sunset, Day Seven


The discussion at the evening meeting involved interesting revelations, claims and counter claims. The voting itself, despite a lot of confusion in the counting, ended up with a clear result.

“The committee has chosen death for Dutch_guy,” said JimBob. “That sentence will be carried out imm….”

JimBob whipped up a Buntline special from the podium and in one fluid motion shot Dutch-guy in the middle of the face.

“ediately.”

Dutch-guy’s lifeless body collapsed like a puppet with its strings cut. Blood leaked out of both ears as well as the shattered hole that had replaced Dutch’s nose. The Director apparently did not favor full metal jackets for his ammunition.

“I will continue as Director, courtesy of your support. Guard yourselves well, for I assure you that our task is not yet complete.”

JimBob gaveled the meeting to a close. The Committee shuffled out, more than a little disturbed by the sudden conclusion to the meeting – even though a clear majority had voted that way.

Night arrived with yet another series of thunderstorms. The skies themselves mirrored the mood below. Few intended to “go gently” into that good night.


OOC

1. As Noted before, Night PMs will be accepted up to 1300 22 Feb 08 (1800GMT)

2. Lynch Vote Tally:

Dutch_guy = 14 (BSR, Charge, CA, Crate, EMM, Hiji, Husar, Joe, Kukri, Griz, Mak, Prole, Sig, TB) 1 unbolded vote by Ciaus as well.

Sigurd Fafnesbane = 10 (Cow, CR, Kage, Myrd, North, Sara, Scott, Tin, Tran, Xeh)

Crazed Rabbit = 1 (Shlin)

3. Selection Vote Tally:

Didn’t bother, not worth counting.

[Caius]

because don's can't be vig killed.
Yes, they can if their Luca dont protect him doing something the same night.

[Andres]

Andres makes one post 'pointing out' a BKS vote for Dutch Guy, and it makes it into every tally since. BKS hasn't posted in this thread since February 6 (15 days ago). Andres has been trying to throw suspicion on BKS to divert attention from the Stracchis and using him as one of his fake votes to mess up the tally. BKS has not voted for Dutch Guy, and DG's numbers according to the current tally are at least one vote higher than they really are (so if you try for a double lynch he'll get off once again).

Please. Please take BKS off the tally.

At least one of you guys is awake while reading the thread...

Well spotted ajaxfetish :bow:

[Ferret]

dang missed votes :(

[JimBob]

Alright, everyone check your tallies. Seems our friends in the mob are messing with them to throw us off.

To Sigurd: I do trust my FBI man. I'm as sure of him as I am of anyone else in this game.

Our results are based on solid detective work.

On that note:
Anymore detectives in the woodwork? Come out and play. Doctors too.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Mafia status as of N6:

--Stracchi. Don: Omanes A. (dead), Luca: Dutch Guy, Made: Andres (dead), Former associated wise guy: LouisVI, associated wise guy or made: Tran (according to Louis, Omanes, and JimBob). Calling Card: Pink ballet slippers. Victims: Drisos (detective, N1), Pannonian (wise guy, N3), Motep (N5), Louis VI (N6), attempted hits on GH (N2, N3) and Proletariat (N4, possible Don).

--Corleone. Don: Sigurd (according to JimBob's contacts), Luca: Unknown, Made: Tiberius of the Drake (dead), several unknown associated wise guys. Calling Card: Weather balloons and religious paraphernalia. Victims: Glenn (crusader?, N3), Beefy (townie, N3), The Stranger (townie, N3), GH (N4, wise guy), attempted hits on Glenn (N2) and Proletariat (N4, N5, N6?, possible Don).

--Tataglia. Family member: Makayane (according to JimBob's contacts)

--Barzini.

--Cunnio.

Yellow rose group (whichever family it may be). Don: Unknown, Luca: Unknown, Made: Unknown, associated wise guys if any unknown. Calling Card: Yellow rose and a preference for explosives. Victims: Zorg (wise guy, N3), Moros (N4, wise guy or wolf-type character), Lt. Pinard (N6), possible attempted hit on Proletariat (N4).

Italian Destiny group (whichever family it may be). Don: Unknown, Luca: Unknown, Made: Unknown, associated wise guys if any unknown. Calling Card: an Italian phrase (destiny is inexorable). Victims: Kamikhaan (N5), ajaxfetish (N6).

Other possible calling cards: A black rose was left with Chimpyang's corpse (N5). A white rose was dropped by CR's attempted assailant (N6).

The Stracchi's managed additional hits nights 5 and 6, with both Omanes and Andres dead. I'm assuming Dutch Guy was one of the killers, but he'd need an accomplice, so it's likely Tran is in action along with DG. Louis is clearly not acting in conjunction with the remnants of the family (as they offed him night 6).

Tonight it seems the Corleone's were either inactive (shocker!) or were responsible only for the attempted hit on Prole (as syringes were involved). Might some of their members have been victims in recent nights?

The Tataglia have responded to the Corleones' call for truce, according to TosaInu's second relayed communication.

Omanes suspected Sigurd to be the don of the Barzinis, JimBob is sure he is the don of the Corleones.

----------------------------------------------------

Musings:

xdeathfire and twilightblade have both fled to the police immediately after being attacked (xdeath on N1, twilight on N5). They may have a similar role, and this action would seem to suggest it's a pro-town one.

Lone killers with calling cards or consistent modi operandi
--.577 Webley. A rogue killer of unknown motivation. A single individual using the same weapon shot both Kommodus (N4, luca) and Woad&Fangs (N5).
--King of Hearts. Another lone killer is operating, using knives and leaving King of Hearts playing cards. He participated in killing Woad & Fangs (N5) and Louis VI (N6). In both cases he was not the only killer involved (the .577 Webley guy also targeted Kommodus and the Stracchis also targeted Louis), yet in both cases each of the killers seemed surprised the other was there. This knife wielder has left the words 'dead rat' and 'traitor' on the cards he has left behind, so may be a mafia-aligned character whose objective is killing those who turn on the mafia from within. This is clearly the case for Louis, though Kommodus story is less clear. There is nothing I know of publicly to suggest Kommodus has betrayed his family. However, Sasaki has had access to mafia investigation results (until recently, it seems) and it has been stated in the thread that Kommodus hates playing mafia. Could he have been passing on his family's investigation results to Sasaki? If he were discovered doing so it would explain his killing as a mafia traitor, and his death would explain Sasaki's lack of recent investigation results. Would Sasaki care to confirm or deny this hypothesis?

CR's attack sounded like an attempted mafia hit, but with only one member getting in their orders on time.

Prole continues to be defended by a single individual (either a luca facing relentless but futile attempts on her life or a doctor who's found a seemingly-guaranteed target with which to achieve surgeon status).

Craterus also seemed to be defended by a single individual (I don't know if he had enough public likelihood of attack to justify a doctor's attention) and attacked by two (possibly a mafia group whose calling card just wasn't found).

Society for Creative Anachronism. The medieval connection here is getting weirder and weirder. First we have our holy trio (now down to just our director JimBob), then the Corleones take up religious themes in their killings, and now we have unknown dudes in full crusader getup killing people in the streets. Both a collection of 4 with black crosses and a lone gunman with a red cross targeted FactionHeir. They seemed not to be acting together, but the coincidence of two independent groups targeting the same victim and choosing to wear late medieval religiously-themed military costume is a little overwhelming. What's up with this kill?

My own death. Well, I lasted 6 nights in this my first mafia game, only to fall victim to the Italian Destiny group, whichever family it may be. I was pro-town, but I see no special reason why I was targeted. My night activity was lacklustre at best and my only significant contribution by day (besides voting) is summarizing the nights events and what we seem to know about the mafia families as of yet. This I can do whether I'm alive or dead. Perhaps I was just an easy kill as I seemed likely to be pro-town and unlikely to be protected. Anyhow, it's a shame my trusty radio had to die with me, but good luck to my surviving neighbors. May the Fatlington mafia enjoy the cold sleep of the grave.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Post-mortem results:

10 pro-town
Townie: Lord Winter, Beefy, taka, the Stranger, FahadI, killfr3nzy, Sapi, Xiahou
Detective: Drisos
Crusader?: Glenn

7 neutral
Wise Guy: Pevergreen, Hannibal, Pannonian, Zorg, GH, x-Danger, Moros (though Moros may be an unaffiliated mafia member)

3 mafia
Made: Tiberius (Corleone)
Luca: Kommodus (family unknown)
Don: Omanes (Stracchi)

Ajax
That was a great post, Ajax. Some quick stuff, haven't gone over it all thoroughly:

Mafia status as of N6:

--Stracchi. Don: Omanes A. (dead), Luca: Dutch Guy, Made: Andres (dead), Former associated wise guy: LouisVI, associated wise guy or made: Tran (according to Louis, Omanes, and JimBob). Calling Card: Pink ballet slippers. Victims: Drisos (detective, N1), Pannonian (wise guy, N3), Motep (N5), Louis VI (N6), attempted hits on GH (N2, N3) and Proletariat (N4, possible Don).Tran was a wiseguy on N3. Klled Panno with me. Don't know what Tran is up to now.

Hit on Proletariat (innocent) on N4 was probably the balloon mafia.

Andres(made) and Omanes(don) were both dead on N5. Yet the murder of Motep on n5 had 'pink ballet slippers'. And was performed by three people. I don't get it. Did Dutch become don and recruited a third member? Did a wiseguy group take over the pink ballet emblem? ~:confused:

The cowardly murder of Louis 6 on N VI was, according to Dutch, performed by Dutch himself. Together with one other person. The 'pink ballet' poofte...er, mafia emblem of the Straccchi's was absent though.


--Corleone. Don: Sigurd (according to JimBob's contacts), Luca: Unknown, Made: Tiberius of the Drake (dead), several unknown associated wise guys. Calling Card: Weather balloons and religious paraphernalia. Victims: Glenn (crusader?, N3), Beefy (townie, N3), The Stranger (townie, N3), GH (N4, wise guy), attempted hits on Glenn (N2) and Proletariat (N4, N5, N6?, possible Don).


--Tataglia. Family member: Makayane (according to JimBob's contacts)Same as I heard. Same source too no doubt.


--Cunnio.Teh big guess


--Barzini. This is the 'rose' group. All coloured roses are from the same group, the Barzini's. So, these hits below are all from the same, rather powerful, family:


Other possible calling cards: A black rose was left with Chimpyang's corpse (N5). A white rose was dropped by CR's attempted assailant (N6).
Yellow rose group (whichever family it may be). Don: Unknown, Luca: Unknown, Made: Unknown, associated wise guys if any unknown. Calling Card: Yellow rose and a preference for explosives. Victims: Zorg (wise guy, N3), Moros (N4, wise guy or wolf-type character), Lt. Pinard (N6), possible attempted hit on Proletariat (N4).
The possible attempted hit on Proletariat (town) I've never figured out either. There is both a balloon and a rose, which is just odd.



Proletariat left the wine bar that evening in good spirits, a gentle sense of euphoria – and her trusty umbrella -- carrying her through the rain in comfort. Though it was a dark and stormy night, darkness held little terror for Proletariat, and she refused to let the threat hanging over everyone in Fatlington prevent her from living her life as she wished. With a firm step, she turned toward the little park near the end of the boardwalk, intending to talk a brief walk among the trees and walk home on the boardwalk with its view of the dark Atlantic.

As she left the park and climbed the stairs to the boardwalk, she felt a stinging sensation in her neck. She grabbed quickly at the spot, only to find what appeared to be a sharpened dart with a single, perfect yellow rose attached. Proletariat knew what was coming, and ran for home. Amazed to have outrun whoever was pursuing her, she gratefully slammed the door and bolted it behind her. Then she thought about her neck.

<<Shouldn’t I be woozy or something?>>

Turning over the dart in her hand, Prole’ noticed that the small yellow rose to find it rolled in some sort of paper. She unrolled it -- it seemed to go on forever – but finally came to a simple message. "JUST KIDDING" was written in bold letters.

<<What kind of sick…>>

But she never finished the thought. She heard the hissing, smelled chloroform and then…

Proletariat awoke an hour or so later back in her favorite little park. Her head was resting on a pillow and someone had erected a tarp to shield her from the rain. As she looked around, the scene got even weirder. The tree nearest her had been defaced with a message carved into the bark, "Blessings are for the head of the just, but a rod for the back of the fool," her feet were stapled to the ground with what appeared to be horseshoes and her neck was clenched in a wire noose attached to a – deflated – weather balloon.

After freeing herself from the noose – someone had thoughtfully cut the ropes binding her hands – Proletariat noticed that the balloon had been deflated with a shotgun just before it would have yanked her upright to her death. She couldn’t make much sense of what was written on the balloon – “ncetnoni” – but she was grateful for whomever, or whatever, had saved her from a grisly death. It would be an hour before she could pry up the “staples” holding her in place.That's an anagram of ‘I-N-N-O-C-E-N-T’. Maybe a hello from Ichigo to Sasaki? The other way round?
I'ver never understood it. There's both a yellow rose and a balloon. Also, the same night the balloons made what looks like a single-man hit on Proletariat:


<<Sushi,>> thought Proletariat. She’d developed a taste for the stuff while serving a stint as a nurse during the first year of the occupation. Tonight had been horrific enough to where she needed her own brand of comfort food along with just a bit of sake – at the proper temperature. She called Yoshioka-san – there was exactly one authentic Japanese style resteraunt in Fatlington, the Backroom at Yoshi’s tap house where a priviledged few were served the cuisine they’d come to love – and asked to come by for a very late dinner.

Nearly 2 hours later, Proletariat was walking through a dark and quiet Fatlington, a little apprehensive to be out again on her own, but warmed by the glow of warm sake and delicate sashimi. The desire for sushi makes one take strange chances – and in this case a dangerous chance.

She was nearly home when she saw a man standing in front of her apartment house, carrying what looked like at least half a dozen red and green balloons. She gave a little gasp as her warm dinner suddenly surged in a desire to reverse course.

<<balloons….>>

Proletariat forced herself to steady. Her right hand rested on the semi automatic in her coat pocket – thumbing off the safety. It was locked and loaded (she’d taken to leaving a round chambered) and she was a good shot. If this man meant harm, she’d do what was needful.

”Care for a balloon, miss,” said the stranger spoke, with a difficult to place European accent? “I’d suggest a green one, matches your eyes perfectly!”

“No. Now step aside.”

“Ma’am,” said the stranger questioningly, his face assuming a “hurt puppy-dog” look. “A red one perhaps?”

“Get that f…” Prole caught herself. Surely this man meant no harm? He certainly looked harmless enough. Plus, nothing a shot to the head wouldn’t solve.

“I find I don’t like balloons much, anymore. No thank you.”

”With my compliments then,” said the man, extending a green balloon her way. Prole involuntarily backed up a few steps, taking her into the street.

Some 70 yards away, a pale man waiting in his car saw Proletariat back into the street, gunned the engine and slammed the car into gear. << Can’t believe it’s almost over,>> the driver thought. <<We could have meant so much to this little town. Damn backstabbers…>> The car quickly ate the distance between itself and Prole.’

Prole glance at the car, then noticed that the balloon salesman was blocking the space between cars she’d just come through – she was trapped! Prole cleared her semi automatic smoothly, but it was too late. She heard the “balloon” salesman shouting “Sayonara” as she turned to take a desperate shot at the car.

Which slammed to a sudden and unexpected stop less than 50 feet away. Somehow, someone in a car only 30 feet away had nudged the nose of their vehicle into the street just in time to absorb the killing impact meant for Proletariat.

The balloon salesman flung his change belt at Proletariat as a distraction and ducked into the doorway of the store they’d been standing near. A planned escape route got him safely away. The driver of the kill car, cursing failure, slammed his car into reverse before Proletariat could get off a clear shot and made it out of sight. The car was abandoned shortly thereafter. Prole’ never saw the driver who’d blocked her death. She went home to spend a sleepless night.



Italian Destiny group (whichever family it may be). Don: Unknown, Luca: Unknown, Made: Unknown, associated wise guys if any unknown. Calling Card: an Italian phrase (destiny is inexorable). Victims: Kamikhaan (N5), ajaxfetish (N6). ?

[Louis VI the Fat]

To the extent of my knowledge (which isn't very far mind you) Sasaki has been proven innocent and didn't he go rogue detective? So I don't see the point of naming any names unless its the name of a proven Don, a.k.a. youHohoho...

Sasaki has 'gone rogue detective? You mean, Sasaki is claiming to be a rogue detective? :inquisitive:

First, Sasaki has a made who's name he refuses to share, to this day, for one reason or the other. And now, he is running around claiming to be a rogue detective to people?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I have never claimed to be rogue detective. Not this game anyway. And you don't have to worry about the made. I'm just sayin, there weren't any investigation results today...

[Louis VI the Fat]

regarding Louis 'revelation' - last he posted he was backing off of that, saying I wasn't a don. Oops, almost missed this.

The last thing that I said, was that naming you a don was rash, but that the FoS remains. To put it differently, we have some 'multi-interpretational' stuff that we are going over. We need time to work everything out. There is something fishy going on somewhere, but I am not sure it is you I smell.

***

On another note, Ichigo was(?) working for the Barzini's, as a recruited wiseguy.

[RoadKill]

Vote: Crazed Rabbit

Nice try with the pm.

[ajaxfetish]

Tran was a wiseguy on N3. Klled Panno with me. Don't know what Tran is up to now.I'm not 100% certain either. I can take your name off if you want to withdraw your accusation that he was a made, but IIRC both Omanes and JimBob's sources have said as much as well.


Hit on Proletariat (innocent) on N4 was probably the balloon mafia.It looked like there were multiple attacks or pseudo-attacks made on Proletariat that same night. The rose group had the dart and the 'just kidding' note, the balloon group had the 'innocent' balloon escape, and the third attack I interpreted as the Stracchis because of the car driver's thoughts (the Stracchi were the only family I know of on their way out of town and backstabbed at that point) and the word 'sayanora' (considering the Asian accent hint about the family). The balloons I took for a coincidence, but I could be wrong.


Andres(made) and Omanes(don) were both dead on N5. Yet the murder of Motep on n5 had 'pink ballet slippers'. And was performed by three people. I don't get it. Did Dutch become don and recruited a third member? Did a wiseguy group take over the pink ballet emblem? ~:confused:

The cowardly murder of Louis 6 on N VI was, according to Dutch, performed by Dutch himself. Together with one other person. The 'pink ballet' poofte...er, mafia emblem of the Straccchi's was absent though.
I don't know about the three people on N5 either, but there were ballet slippers left with your corpse as well as the playing card, and Dutch seemed to have an accomplice of his own according to the write-up.




This is the 'rose' group. All coloured roses are from the same group, the Barzini's. So, these hits below are all from the same, rather powerful, family:

I'll have to add that into my analysis. It seemed strange at first when after three yellow roses we were presented by a black one, but now the colors are multiplying beyond the likelihood of belonging to different families.



?
In terms of the 'Italian Destiny' family, there was a hit on Kamikhaan on N5, in which he was skewered by a lance with a pennant reading 'il destino è inesorabile' (destiny is inevitable or something along those lines). I wasn't sure what qualified as the calling card at that point, but then on N6 I was hit by a group who left a parchment with the same phrase on it, so I've determined that to be their calling card. On further reflection, the use of a lance and 'parchment' are a little odd as well, and suggest a medieval component to the family. I wonder if they're in any way connected to the bizarre killing of FactionHeir. No idea how yet, though.

Ajax

[JimBob]

On further reflection, the use of a lance and 'parchment' are a little odd as well, and suggest a medieval component to the family. I wonder if they're in any way connected to the bizarre killing of FactionHeir. No idea how yet, though.
Nope, FactionHeir was organized by me. A detective sent me a guilty reading on him and we killed him. The medieval armor was in honor of my old Crusader group that never got to kill any mafia.

[ajaxfetish]

Nope, FactionHeir was organized by me. A detective sent me a guilty reading on him and we killed him. The medieval armor was in honor of my old Crusader group that never got to kill any mafia.
Okay, that episode makes a lot more sense now. What was with the red vs. black insignia? (were you in red, to start the thing off, with a separate black vig. group?)

Ajax

[FactionHeir]

I suppose when that detective investigates you, he'd also get a guilty readin because you participated in a killing.

[ajaxfetish]

All right. Here's my N6 summary again, but edited to include the input of Louis and JimBob.
Mafia status as of N6:

--Stracchi. Don: Omanes A. (dead), Luca: Dutch Guy (dead as of D7), Made: Andres (dead), Former associated wise guy: LouisVI (dead), associated wise guy or made: Tran (according to Omanes and JimBob). Calling Card: Pink ballet slippers. Victims: Drisos (detective, N1), Pannonian (wise guy, N3), Motep (N5), Louis VI (N6), attempted hits on GH (N2, N3) and Proletariat (N4).

--Corleone. Don: Sigurd (according to JimBob's contacts), Luca: Unknown, Made: Tiberius of the Drake (dead), several unknown associated wise guys. Calling Card: Weather balloons and religious paraphernalia. Victims: Glenn (crusader?, N3), Beefy (townie, N3), The Stranger (townie, N3), GH (wise guy, N4), attempted hits on Glenn (N2) and Proletariat (N4, N5, N6?).

--Tataglia. Family member: Makanyane (according to JimBob's contacts)

--Barzini. (Rose group according to Louis), associated wise guy: Ichigo (according to Louis)

--Cunnio.

Rose group (Barzinis according to Louis). Don: Unknown, Luca: Unknown, Made: Unknown, associated wise guys if any: unknown. Calling Card: Yellow rose and a preference for explosives. Victims: Zorg (wise guy, N3), Moros (N4, wise guy or wolf-type character), Chimpyang (N5, black rose), Lt. Pinard (N6), attempted hit on CR (N6, white rose), possible attempted hit on Proletariat (N4).

Italian Destiny group (Tataglia or Cunnio if Louis is correct about the Barzinis). Don: Unknown, Luca: Unknown, Made: Unknown, associated wise guys if any: unknown. Calling Card: an Italian phrase (destiny is inexorable). Victims: Kamikhaan (N5), ajaxfetish (N6).

The Stracchi's managed additional hits nights 5 and 6, with both Omanes and Andres dead. I'm assuming Dutch Guy was one of the killers, but he'd need an accomplice, so it's likely Tran is in action along with DG. Louis is clearly not acting in conjunction with the remnants of the family (as they offed him night 6).

Tonight it seems the Corleone's were either inactive (shocker!) or were responsible only for the attempted hit on Prole (as syringes were involved). Might some of their members have been victims in recent nights? Also, after realizing I couldn't remember why I linked the religious/balloon killers to the Corleone name, I went back to check on it. The one connection was post #1723 where Louis tells Glenn he was killed by the Corleones. If that info was incorrect, balloon group and the Corleones could be different.

The Tataglia have responded to the Corleones' call for truce, according to TosaInu's second relayed communication.

Omanes suspected Sigurd to be the don of the Barzinis, JimBob is sure he is the don of the Corleones.

----------------------------------------------------

Musings:

xdeathfire and twilightblade have both fled to the police immediately after being attacked (xdeath on N1, twilight on N5). They may have a similar role, and this action would seem to suggest it's a pro-town one.

Lone killers with calling cards or consistent modi operandi
--.577 Webley. A rogue killer of unknown motivation. A single individual using the same weapon shot both Kommodus (luca, N4) and Woad&Fangs (N5).
--King of Hearts. Another lone killer is operating, using knives and leaving King of Hearts playing cards. He participated in killing Woad & Fangs (N5) and Louis VI (N6). In both cases he was not the only killer involved (the .577 Webley guy also targeted Kommodus and the Stracchis also targeted Louis), yet in both cases each of the killers seemed surprised the other was there. This knife wielder has left the words 'dead rat' and 'traitor' on the cards he has left behind, so may be a mafia-aligned character whose objective is killing those who turn on the mafia from within. This is clearly the case for Louis, though Kommodus story is less clear. There is nothing I know of publicly to suggest Kommodus has betrayed his family. However, Sasaki has had access to mafia investigation results (until recently, it seems) and it has been stated in the thread that Kommodus hates playing mafia. Could he have been passing on his family's investigation results to Sasaki? If he were discovered doing so it would explain his killing as a mafia traitor, and his death would explain Sasaki's lack of recent investigation results. Would Sasaki care to confirm or deny this hypothesis?

CR's attack sounded like an attempted mafia hit, but with only one member getting in their orders on time.

Prole continues to be defended by a single individual (either a luca facing relentless but futile attempts on her life or a doctor who's found a seemingly-guaranteed target with which to achieve surgeon status).

Craterus also seemed to be defended by a single individual (I don't know if he had enough public likelihood of attack to justify a doctor's attention) and attacked by two (possibly a mafia group whose calling card just wasn't found).

Society for Creative Anachronism. Thanks to JimBob's clarification, it's clear that FactionHeir's killers were a vigilante group organized by JimBob and adopting the regalia of the failed holy trio. The lone red crusader vs. four black crusaders is still a little confusing, however.

My own death. Well, I lasted 6 nights in this my first mafia game, only to fall victim to the Italian Destiny group, whichever family it may be. I was pro-town, but I see no special reason why I was targeted. My night activity was lacklustre at best and my only significant contribution by day (besides voting) is summarizing the nights events and what we seem to know about the mafia families as of yet. This I can do whether I'm alive or dead. Perhaps I was just an easy kill as I seemed likely to be pro-town and unlikely to be protected. Anyhow, it's a shame my trusty radio had to die with me, but good luck to my surviving neighbors. May the Fatlington mafia enjoy the cold sleep of the grave.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Post-mortem results:

10 pro-town
Townie: Lord Winter, Beefy, taka, the Stranger, FahadI, killfr3nzy, Sapi, Xiahou
Detective: Drisos
Crusader?: Glenn

7 neutral
Wise Guy: Pevergreen, Hannibal, Pannonian, Zorg, GH, x-Danger, Moros (though Moros may be an unaffiliated mafia member)

3 mafia
Made: Tiberius (Corleone)
Luca: Kommodus (family unknown)
Don: Omanes (Stracchi)

Ajax


Ajax

[Caius]

I see no special reason why I was targeted.
Well, when you contribute too much, you become a target since you can discover them.Edit:They try to lead the town to confussion, then come in and lead us to defeat.

[Caius]

Vote: Crazed Rabbit

Nice try with the pm.
Its night RoadKill :inquisitive:

Gnight all.

[ajaxfetish]

Well, when you contribute too much, you become a target since you can discover them.Edit:They try to lead the town to confussion, then come in and lead us to defeat.
I understand that. It's just that my main contributions are things I can do just as well dead as alive, so killing me wouldn't have made a terrific difference in the towns defenses. Others are more involved in leading night actions, voting, or private info coordination. I'm mainly just analyzing and packaging the info available to all in the public thread.

Ajax

[Seamus Fermanagh]

“Tell me, who can you trust these days
Cause people don't be about it like they say
Gotta be watching your back night and day
Who can you trust
Tell me, who can you trust or not
The ones that be trying' to get what you got
Just listen to these words whatever you do
The only one you trust is you”
-- Keri Lewis


Summary, Night Seven


Sasaki Kojiro left the Convention Center and went towards a restaurant to get a bite. He wasn’t really interested in company at the moment – in point of fact he was a little listless as things just hadn’t been going smoothly.

<<Why wouldn’t they listen?>>

He finished supper and went out the front towards his car. He put the lock and tried to turn it, but it didn’t work. With the rain coming down, this was not comfortable.

<<That’s funny..>>

As he jiggled the key, it finally turned and a dripping Sasaki sat down, closed the door and began to start the car.

<<This doesn’t seem right,> thought Sasaki, as he went through the start-up sequence on autopilot.

Just as he turned the key in the ignition, a gunman appeared from either side of the vehicle, each of them carrying Johnson LMG’s. Both guns opened up, their in line stocks letting both gunners keep their weapons on target despite long bursts. Round after round hammered into the windows and doors of Sasaki’s car as he dropped below the dash in a reflexive effort to escape his own destruction.

Which he did. Much to the surprise of both gunmen as well as Sasaki, each gunner had emptied a full 20-round box of 30ought6 ammo into the doors and windows without making a single hole. The doors and windows were gashed, dented, and spidered with cracks, but not one round had penetrated. In fact, more than a few rounds had ricocheted dangerously close to the shooters themselves. They themselves had come closer to death than their target! With sirens announcing the imminent arrival of the police, both gunmen ran up the street and disappeared into the rain and darkness.

Panting, Sasaki sat up in the vehicle and looked around.

<<This isn’t my car! It’s very close but….>>

As he peered out of the cracked windows of his “borrowed” vehicle – fortunately heavily armored as opposed to Sasaki’s normal ride – he thought he caught a glimpse of a trench-coated figure across the rainy street. The figure gently tipped his broad-brimmed hat toward Sasaki and faded into night.


Brave Sir Robin was just turning the key in his apartment door when he heard someone thudding up the stairs from below and the <<click>> of a bolt from behind the door. He jumped back, just in time to avoid the fusillade of shots coming through the door and the space he’d occupied a half second before.

<<A trap!>>

As the gunman kicked open the shattered door and stepped into the hallway, Robin raced to the end of the hall a dove through the hall window onto the fire escape. The Gunman smiled to himself.

Robin rolled to the edge of the fire escape and allowed himself to drop, hanging on by his hands. Robin then jumped sideways onto the fire ladder and rode it to the ground below, quickly racing off in the direction of the nearest police patrol.

Inside, the apartment gunman walked up to the broken window, looked around and confirmed a distinct absence of an accomplice, then commented on the parentage of his missing partner. He met his other partner at the top of the steps and both quickly made ther escape..


Proletariat was on edge. She hadn’t managed more than a couple hours of sleep for several days. Her reactions were off, her temper was short, and she was ready to jump away from – or fire back at – the slightest sound.

<<But am I paranoid ENOUGH?>>

Prole’ giggled to herself – a giggle with just a bit of hysteria carefully shrouded behind it. She continued to duck from one doorway to the next, carefully scanning for threats before moving to the next.

<<Now!>>

Prole’ moved quickly to the next doorway, but this time something was different. Sitting in a small fishbowl in the doorway was a milk snake!

<<What?>>

A figure leaned out of the second story window above and just to the side of the door and dropped to the street. Prole went for her gun, but the stranger was faster – flinging another snake at her face.

Surprising both Proletariat and the stranger, the door behind her opened and a hand grabbed the snake neatly out of the air just before it would have struck her. The hand disappeared behind the door, taking the snake with it.

Proletariat had her gun out and firing at the retreating figure of the stranger, but wasn’t able to get off a clear shot in the rain and dark. Her stomach aching from adrenalin, she turned to check the door behind her, hoping to find out who had helped her so. Knotted on the latch was the 2nd snake – a Coral snake – its crushed head dripping the venom meant for her. The door was once again locked.

Prole’ sat in the waiting room of the local police precinct all night, sipping bad coffee and glancing quickly toward any strange sound. She made sure that she didn’t fall asleep.


Tran was pretty well prepared for anything – he thought. So he was, of course, completely unprepared to see four men dressed in visored helmets and crusader outfits with black crosses leveling shotguns and pistols at him from within his own living room as he opened the door. He was, however, prepared for a quick escape.

He fired his pistol in the crusader’s general direction without even bothering to get it clear of his pocket – a coat can be replaced – and spun toward the window at the end of the hall. They fired back, but not expecting him to be quite that fast they were unable to make contact, hammering holes in the door and the opposite wall of the hallway instead. Two of them moved forward to pursue.

Tran leapt through the window in a shower of glass and out onto the fire escape – only to find that the crusaders had thoughtfully removed the fire escape earlier in the evening. His planned escape route became 65 feet of free fall to a side-street below. One crusader – hoping for this result – had placed himself at the apartment window to watch the show.

Instead, he got to watch Tran plummet onto the back of a moving canvas-topped truck passing in the street below at that precise moment. The canvas billowed up, absorbing the impact of Tran’s fall like a cushion and depositing him – rather messily – into a half load of ripe Jersey peaches. The stunned driver slammed on his brakes and got out of the vehicle. A small crowd quickly gathered. Tran was emerging, bruised and shaken but apparently unhurt. The frustrated Crusaders made their way up onto the roof and went from roof to roof until they were clear of the scene.


NorthNovas was taking no chances. Despite the rain, he’d gone around the perimeter of his two-bedroom home both inside and out, checking for anything out of the ordinary and making sure that nobody was lurking nearby. He’d gone in, locked up, and was pouring himself an iced tea when he heard the commotion out front.

Moving carefully, shotgun in hand and a pistol at his belt (well this IS Fatlington!), North went to his shuttered front window.

<<What the….>>

Peering out through the rain he was flabbergasted to see a small mob of several hundred people moving down his street carrying lit torches, clubs, and – oddly enough – a few pitchforks. Aside from the tourist-at-the-beach wear most sported, they looked pretty much like the villager mob from one of the Frankenstein movies he’d watched so avidly as a kid. The rain and occasional lightning flash in the background only added to the effect.

The mob stopped in front of his house and started screaming. “Show yourself villain,” shouted one! “Give yourself up,” shouted another! One wag shouted, “We’re here for your monster Doctor Frankenstein!” This caused a good portion of the crowd to break into laughter. “You’ve betrayed our town!” They weren’t really angry, just playing it up for yucks – and making a lot of noise.

Enough noise that North never heard the attic trapdoor swing down into the kitchen or the men step softly behind him into the living room. The first he knew that they were there was when the .45 went off behind him sending a slug through his right wrist. His crippled hand dropped the shotgun. A quick series of following shots hit him repeatedly in the back. His body armor stopped the shots, but NorthNovas was slammed unconscious into his front door, dropping in a heap.

North awoke moments later as his arms were nearly yanked from their sockets. His attackers had quickly hammered eyebolts into the framing above the door and used ropes to both bind his hands and pull him upright, facing the front door. He’d been gagged, his armor vest removed, and his legs bound together with the rope run through an eyebolt put into the floor between his feet. The crowd outside were still making noise, though mostly it was laughter now at one bad monster-movie joke after another – enough beer and anything seems funny.

“How much did the crowd cost,” said one of the voices behind him, glancing out the shuttered window.

“Couple of kegs and we had to provide most of the torches and such,” answered another.

“Nice. Hey, look! We’ve got a reporter and two photographers out recording the “joke” for posterity,” laughed the first voice. After a short pause he continued. “Our man seems to have finished passing out beers and such and is behind the reporter and getting clear.”

“Good,” said a new voice, standing just behind NorthNovas. “Just one last little thing.”

This last person took a long knife and plunged it into the middle of North’s back, just to the right of the spine. North screamed into the gag. The knife was turned ninety degrees and sliced down and through NorthNovas’ diaphragm and into his intestines. North tried to scream, but couldn’t really breath – barely any oxygen was drawn into his lungs – his loudest sound was a faint wheeze.

“With your lung muscle cut, you should choke to death long before you bleed out,” said this last man. “Of course, you get to enjoy the pain for several minutes either way.”

He leaned in to whisper in North’s ear.

“Just so you know, villain, the heroes in this little production are…”

The men left quietly, with the crowd out front starting to disperse. They had no trouble mingling in and clearing the scene unnoticed. It was hours before anybody found North’s body hanging from the inside of his own front door.


Husar had just reached home and headed for the kitchen to grab a beer when he discovered he wasn’t alone. There were noises coming from the kitchen ahead of him. He broke through the doorway with his gun drawn and level.

There, roped to a chair in his apartment kitchen was his landlady, gagged and struggling to break free. She looked at him, looked at his weapon, and screamed into her gag. He paused, shocked at the sight nearly as much as she.

<<I thought about doing that the last time the rent was due…>> Husar thought, irrelevantly.

The distraction had served its purpose. Two figures, one in the pantry and one stepping out into the living room behind him both opened up with their Kalishnikov assault rifles, model 1947 – apparently bribery worked just fine in the USSR as well as the West – on full auto. They fired low, so that none of the shots would be instantly fatal. Husar went down, screaming, bleeding from more than a dozen wounds in the abdomen, legs, and…elsewhere…in that vicinity.

The shooter from the pantry stepped forward, holding up a javelin with parchment attached.

“Ciao,” said the masked shooter.

The shooter skewered Husar through the throat, stopping the screaming and killing him instantly. The second shooter stepped into the doorway and put a short burst through the landlady’s face, splattering it across the back half of the kitchen.

“Sweet,” said the woman’s killer. "Shame it's probably the last time we get to use them."

“I agree, and yeah,” said the first. “Gun looks like it’s been stamped out from scrap metal but it works like a charm. Guy who sold them to me said I could even dump ‘em in the surf for an hour and they’d still fire. If the Rooskis can keep building them like this, we’re in trouble.”

“Commie,” laughed the other. “Why do you hate freedom?”

They both left quickly. The police responding to the scene 10 minutes later found a message on the penant attached to the javelin: “il destino &#232; inesorabile.”


Tincow was almost home when it happened. He was armed, wearing armor, and carefully watching and listening for anything unusual. He still didn’t hear the attacker until too late.

The attacker had glided up from behind virtually without a sound. One gloved hand grabbed TinCow’s forehead while a second brought the razor-sharp blade in across Tin’s throat. A short spray of blood and a gasp from TinCow and then the attacker let him drop to the ground. A playing card – the king of hearts – with the word “traitor” printed on the back was dropped on TinCow’s body and the attacker faded into the shadows and the misting rain that followed the worst of the storm.

Only it wasn’t a body. TinCow had been stunned and had a shallow cut across his neck just below the adam’s apple, but most of the cut had slashed through the thick throat padding of his armor vest rather than through him. He’d only added the bulky throat-piece as an after-thought tonight – normally he went without. By all rights, he should be dead instead of having the next thing to a bad shaving cut. By the slimmest of chances, he’d survived his own death at the hands of a master assassin. He went inside for a drink…make that several.


Morning Day Eight.


“Anyway, now you’re all up to date on last night,” said commissioner Fermanagh. “Here’s the results for our follow up investigations.”

“We lost at least two confirmed innocents that night,” said Fermanagh. “Rythmic and molonthegreat have checked out as townies pure and simple. We’re less sure of two other townies, Chimpyang and Kamikhaan, both of whom mayhave been involved in the killings – though we only have rumors about that.”

“Four criminals died as well. You got one Mafioso made gangster – that scum Andres was just that. Motep and Warmasterhorus were both WiseGuys, though we have no evidence of their involvement in any crimes recently. The other WiseGuy who died was woad&fangs, and there is some evidence that he was involved in the killings – probably trying to work his way into a crime family.”

“Lastly, we found memorabilia similar to those Glenn had in Rob_the_celt’s apartment. He was a townie and a loaner, no criminal for sure, and just maybe he was part of the same whack-job group that Glenn was.”

JimBob glared at the Commissioner.

“Excuse me,” mumbled Fermanagh. “I’ll on about my work.”

He left, and JimBob reviewed the procedures again before breaking up the meeting until evening.



OOC

1. Lynch Voting for Day will now commence. Deadline will be 1300 EST 23 Feb 08 (1800 GMT). WARNING – it’s the weekend and my schedule is not as much my own, be flexible.

2. Investigation Results and Promotions as soon as possible.

3. List of Players and Events

Still Alive: (42) Alexander the Pretty Good, Big King Sanctaphrax, Brave Sir Robin, Caeser the III, Caius, Charge, CountArach, Cowhead418, Craterus, Crazed Rabbit, Draco Leman, Elite Ferret, Evil_Maniac from Mars, gibsonsg91921, Haudegen, Hiji, Ichigo, Ironside, JimBob, Joe Monks, johnhughthom, Jubal_Barca, Kagemusha, KukriKhan, Leet Erikson, LittleGrizzly, Makanyane, Myrrdraal, norwegian nerd, Proletariat, Roadkill, Sarathos, Sasaki Kojiro, scottishranger, shlin28, Sigurd Fafnesbane, TinCow, Tran, TruePraetorian, Twilightblade, Warluster, Xdeathfire, Xehh II.

Attacked: (27) Andres (N2, N3), Beefy187 (N1), Brave Sir Robin (N7), Caius (N3), Craterus (N6), Crazed Rabbit (N6), Cowhead418 (N2), Evil_Maniac from Mars (N3), GeneralHankerchief (N2, N3), Glenn (N1, N2), Kagemusha (N6), Proletariat (N4, N4, N5, N6, N7), Sasaki Kojiro (N5, N7), taka (N2), Tran (N5, N7), TinCow (N7), Twilightblade (N4, N5), Xdeathfire (N1)

Murdered: (23) Drisos (N1), Lord Winter (N2), Beefy187 (N3), Glenn (N3), Pannonian (N3), taka (N3), The Stranger (N3), Zorg (N3), GeneralHankerchief (N4), Kommodus (N4), Moros (N4), Xiahou (N4), Chimpyang (N5), Kamikhaan (N5), Motep (N5), Rythmic, (N5), woad&fangs (N5), ajaxfetish (N6), FactionHeir (N6), Lt. Pinard (N6), Louis VI the Fat (N6), Husar (N7), NorthNovas (N7)

Lynched: (7) pevergreen (D2), Hannibalbarca (D3), Tiberius of the Drake (D3), Omanes Alexandrapolites (D4), Andres (D5), Xdeathfire (D6), Dutch_guy (D7)

Removed from Play: (7) Fahad I (D4), Killfr3nzy (D4), x-dANGEr (D4), Sapi (N4), Warmaster Horus (N5), Rob_the_Celt (N5), molonthegreat (N5)

[Northnovas]

“Just so you know, villain, the heroes in this little production are…”

I was a little distracted by the mob noise, the knife and the gag could you repeat those names again?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Only two succesful kills. Tran escaped somehow and these ridiculous attempts on prole continue.

Vote:Sigurd

Don't think we'll be able to double lynch.

[Myrddraal]

Very interesting.

More people survive by luck...

Didn't Omanes let slip something about Don's surviving their first attack without protection? However, we've had quite a few 'lucky' survivals. It's possible that Seamus has added 'lucky townies' who survive their first attack. I can't help but remember when Beefy said something like "Thanks for making my luck run out" or something along those lines.

In any case, I think the FBI detective has a good target in Tincow.



Sasaki was protected, from a definate mafia hit (2 attackers)




Prole was protected again. Very interesting.



Tran was protected too. I'm assuming that was Jimbob & co taking him out because he is a confirmed wise-guy/mafioso (according to JimBob's investigation reveals). Can Luca's protect mafioso who aren't Dons? Perhaps seeing he was a suspect they decided he was worth protecting?




then commented on the parentage of his missing partner.
:laugh4:

[Kagemusha]

Vote: Sigurd. We cant let him roam around freely.

[Sigurd]

vote:Tincow

He is the real Don... His attack proves it.
Magically surviving the master assasin's attack. The luck Omanes revealed all Dons have?
The one feeding JimBob false information. I know the FBI reveals are all lies. I know this because I was given the role description in a pm.

[Myrddraal]

Ah wait, it seems Tran wasn't protected, or at least, it's not clear from the write up.

It seems the lorry driver is surprised to see him, not like our other protectors. So maybe he's 'lucky' too? Are there any roles which have % probabilities of killing rather than a definate kill?

[Myrddraal]

I know this because I was given the role description in a pm.

Why don't you post it here? Again, more evidence that only you can see.

Also, it seems we have several people surviving by luck. I notice you didn't care to see this? Surviving by luck might make you a candidate for investigation perhaps, but certainly doesn't proove guilt. We've had far too many people survive by luck for them all to be dons.

[Myrddraal]

And it seems I forget to vote, sorry for the post flooding, but I need to put this one in a new post I believe:

Vote:Sigurd

[Caius]

vote:Tincow

He is the real Don... His attack proves it.
Magically surviving the master assasin's attack. The luck Omanes revealed all Dons have?
The one feeding JimBob false information. I know the FBI reveals are all lies. I know this because I was given the role description in a pm.
I dont see the point.

[Myrddraal]

Argh, sorry again.

Tally:

Sigurd Fafnesbane: 3 (Sasaki, Kage, Myrddraal)
TinCow: 1 (Sigurd)

[TinCow]

Amusing.

I am sure I will be dead soon, since I doubt I can repeat my magical feat of survival and I am not important enough to waste a protection on. I was working as a mole inside the 'New' Stracchis, feeding all their information directly to JimBob and other trusted townies.

[the dead may not discuss night actions publicly -- seamus]

I am certain I will be dead soon, so there is no need for me to hide this information any longer. To all townies: JimBob's FBI results are real. Anyone who tries to convince you otherwise is mafia. Lynch them all.

[Proletariat]

Thanks mafia, for the army of uber surgeons you're creating trying to take me out

[Sigurd]

Amusing.

I am sure I will be dead soon, since I doubt I can repeat my magical feat of survival and I am not important enough to waste a protection on. I was working as a mole inside the 'New' Stracchis, feeding all their information directly to JimBob and other trusted townies.

[the dead may not discuss night actions -- seamus]

I am certain I will be dead soon, so there is no need for me to hide this information any longer. To all townies: JimBob's FBI results are real. Anyone who tries to convince you otherwise is mafia. Lynch them all.

:laugh4:

A desperate post... dealing out blame to others to minimise the risk of getting lynched.
You admit to have been feeding JimBob the FBI information? It is all false. I know that the one pm'ing me the FBI role description is dead, a stretch of the rules, I know. Yet he never claimed to be the FBI agent. Just a heads up and the info about the probability of discovering a Don by investigation. It is 1/36 people. Logic says that it is close to impossible. Yet the claimant of the role investigated me twice.. why? first time innocent second time guilty Don?

I think we found the true Dons... TinCow with his lucky survival (thank you Omanes for revealing that tidbit) and Tran the new Don of the Stracci.

[Myrddraal]

That was one very scummy post Sigurd.

Firstly, you were the fastest to leap on another to accuse. As soon as I suggested that TinCow might be good for investigation, you assure everyone that he must be a Don.

Then you twist his words. He did not say he was feeding the FBI information, he said it was genuine.

Your accusations are wild and overly assertive, how can you possibly be sure that Tran is the new Don of the Stracci.

You're the one who's sounding more and more desperate.

EDIT:

[the dead may not discuss night actions -- seamus]

I saw the post, but I don't think it matters too much, TinCow should have legally passed on all this info to JimBob. In fact, if JimBob would kindly reveal the info, it would proove that TinCow is telling the truth, and hasn't made it up on the spot.

[Sigurd]

I saw the post, but I don't think it matters too much, TinCow should have legally passed on all this info to JimBob. In fact, if JimBob would kindly reveal the info, it would proove that TinCow is telling the truth, and hasn't made it up on the spot.

Didn't matter much? He spilled all the beans. For what? my single vote? If he has friends in high places he could just get protection in the following nights.

I say we hit the hammer right on the nail.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

JimBob is alive, and may post his night actions or what he has learned of others.

NorthNovas is dead, and may not do so. Nothing more, nor less.

[TinCow]

Uh... I'm not dead. Why was my info edited out?

[Myrddraal]

Indeed, now I'm really confused.

I think perhaps you should just repost it, I think Seamus was confusing you with NorthNovas.

[JimBob]

He is the real Don... His attack proves it.
Magically surviving the master assasin's attack. The luck Omanes revealed all Dons have?
The one feeding JimBob false information. I know the FBI reveals are all lies. I know this because I was given the role description in a pm.


A desperate post... dealing out blame to others to minimise the risk of getting lynched.
You admit to have been feeding JimBob the FBI information? It is all false. I know that the one pm'ing me the FBI role description is dead, a stretch of the rules, I know. Yet he never claimed to be the FBI agent. Just a heads up and the info about the probability of discovering a Don by investigation. It is 1/36 people. Logic says that it is close to impossible. Yet the claimant of the role investigated me twice.. why? first time innocent second time guilty Don?

I think we found the true Dons... TinCow with his lucky survival (thank you Omanes for revealing that tidbit) and Tran the new Don of the Stracci.

Lady fortune smile on many people Sigurd. There are at least a few genuine townies who should go buy lotto tickets when this is over.

And TinCow has not been giving me the FBI results. That's been the FBI detective. TinCow has been inside the New Stracci organization and has been feeding the names of their members too me. That's why NorthNovas and Tran were hit tonight. Both were organized by my group. The surviving New Straccis are Tran and gibson. If I'm missing any TinCow can point them out.

You were double checked because you were suspicious. The innocent could have made you townie or Don. So we checked again, and the dice rolled our way.



Side point:

I saw the post, but I don't think it matters too much, TinCow should have legally passed on all this info to JimBob. In fact, if JimBob would kindly reveal the info, it would proove that TinCow is telling the truth, and hasn't made it up on the spot.

JimBob is alive, and may post his night actions or what he has learned of others.

NorthNovas is dead, and may not do so. Nothing more, nor less.
I'll repost it if someone tells me what it was. And for the record, TinCow posted that, not NorthNovas, he's got a long list of PMs from Andres, Dutch, and NorthNovas detailing their night exploits.

Jim

[Andres]

Uh... I'm not dead. Why was my info edited out?

Did you perhaps post a pm sent to you by Northnovas in which he discussed his latest night action after his dead?

Anyway, you should wait for Seamus before posting it again.

[TinCow]

You admit to have been feeding JimBob the FBI information?

Nothing of the sort. I'm just a lowly townie, though I think I'm due for a wiseguy promotion based on vig hits now. However, I do know who the FBI Detective was and can confirm that all of the detective results that JimBob posted are accurate because I saw them myself. Your bluffing is getting wild and desperate, Sigurd. I've seen others post before that the mafia never dies quietly. This appears to be true. I have served my purpose and am now disclosing as much information as I can to strengthen the town's position before I am killed off. I am sure you will keep tossing out poorly thought-out lies right up until your neck is stretched.

I encourage all pro-town players to contact JimBob directly and give him whatever support you can. It is obvious to everyone that he is pro-town and I can personally verify that he is 100% trustworthy. He will not disclose the identity of anyone who contacts him, so doctors and detectives can continue to come out of the woodwork. If everyone works with JimBob, the town will win. I encourage all townies to follow any order JimBob gives you to the letter. It would also be useful if you follow his advice on lynchings. Do not let the mafia distract you with their votes. Vote as JimBob wants you to every day, and keep re-electing him as Director.

[TinCow]

Did you perhaps post a pm sent to you by Northnovas in which he discussed his latest night action after his dead?

Anyway, you should wait for Seamus before posting it again.

No, I posted what Northnovas did last night, but I knew that first hand, since I was in every single PM discussing the hit. How can that count as forbidden info?

[Caius]

Did you perhaps post a pm sent to you by Northnovas in which he discussed his latest night action after his dead?
Its impossible.

[shlin28]

Vote Sigurd

All hail Jimbob, our supreme leader!

[Andres]

No, I posted what Northnovas did last night, but I knew that first hand, since I was in every single PM discussing the hit. How can that count as forbidden info?

I think it's best for Seamus to confirm that you are allowed to post whatever it was you posted (sorry, I missed it).

[ajaxfetish]

TinCow or JimBob: would you mind posting the specific roles held by Tran, NorthNovas, and Gibson? It'd make my night summary a lot easier and clearer when I get to it. I'm kind of assuming Tran was the new don (longest in the family, protection or lucky escape), but I'd like to be sure and to know about the others.

Ajax

[TinCow]

I will be happy to, but like Andres suggests, I'd like to wait for a Seamus ruling first. I'm kind of confused about why my first post was edited out and I don't want to break the rules if I somehow misunderstand them.

[Sigurd]

Nothing of the sort. I'm just a lowly townie.
Yes.. the true part is that you did come out as innocent in a investigation.

I knew Omanes mentioned the lucky saves in the back thread (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1834153&postcount=1753):


I have an apology/confession to make. I unknowingly leaked a red area of my role PM in the private area - regarding the luck and survival chances that Dons have without the aid of their Luca. By the time I had realised Andres and Dutch_guy had read it, so I felt there was no point in editing it out - doing so could not repair already performed harm. At the time I also knew that these two would not reveal this detail to anybody else externally, so the damage caused was limited.

As you may expect though, I was not anticipating the entire discussion thread ending up in the public arena. I quickly deleted the topic after Louis' betrayal to avoid him using it for his personal gain or revealing anything contained within it, but this clearly failed - he must have grabbed hold of it long before I destroyed all the information contained within it.

My sincere apologies for any problems/imbalances this may have caused ~:(

I wonder how many townies has this ability?



However, I do know who the FBI Detective was and can confirm that all of the detective results that JimBob posted are accurate because I saw them myself.

Now if you are a Don... I wonder.
Did no-one read my claim? It is countering yours and JimBobs. All I hear is: we are confindent that the FBI detective is genuine. Could you at least provide some proof? A part of his role pm?



I encourage all pro-town players to contact JimBob directly and give him whatever support you can. It is obvious to everyone that he is pro-town and I can personally verify that he is 100% trustworthy. He will not disclose the identity of anyone who contacts him, so doctors and detectives can continue to come out of the woodwork.
Like he wouldn't disclose the FBI agent's results to Don Barzini? Yeah.. I am right am I not?
Dangerous with all the moles around.

[Caeser The III]

once again, sorry i havent been active

[Andres]

It's generally not a good idea trying to get the hitman lynched.

He usually knows too much. You'd better leave him alone or he'll expose you all.

Just my :2cents:

I'm sure the intended recipients of this post understand very well what I'm trying to say here.

[Craterus]

[the dead may not discuss night actions publicly -- seamus]

TinCow is still alive, so what's the problem? ~:confused: - irrelevant, that'll teach me to refresh.

[TinCow]

I wonder how many townies has this ability?

I am almost positive that I read in the rules that every single player has at least one 'Red' section in their Role. This would mean that every single townie (and wiseguy) has something unusual about them. I admit I cannot find this in the Rule thread at the moment, though. If someone else has seen the same thing, I would appreciate having it pointed out.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Hey come on Sigurd, at least when I was pretending to have an FBI detective informant I posted his fake role pm...a little more effort here ~D

[Andres]

Hey come on Sigurd, at least when I was pretending to have an FBI detective informant I posted his fake role pm...a little more effort here ~D

Talking of which.

When are you going to post the genuine role pm of your Made Gangster contact?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Talking of which.

When are you going to post the genuine role pm of your Made Gangster contact?

Why would I have that?

[Husar]

Ah, they finally came for me, not really unexpected, especially since I said I would have more info in one of my last posts...

Have fun. :balloon2:

[Andres]

Why would I have that?

How else did you know that he was a Made? Because you are his Don?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Well you have a point their andres. He could have been a detective sneakily pretending to be a made. :laugh4:

[Andres]

Funny.

If he's a Made, shouldn't a townie give his identity?

If he's a Made, then tell me, why would he give you genuine investigation results? Even if you're a townie, why would we put trust in the investigation results provided to you by the mafia?

"I know a Made. If I were mafia, I would not tell this in public" = WIFOM.

I can't believe the town lets you get away with all this "my mafia contact told me" stuff, without demanding you to reveal your mafia contact and any other intel you should have by now about his family.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Sigurd really needs some lynching. Funny how he seems to vote for whoever got attacked by the mafia the night before.

I'm going for a double lynch with Prole. Unlikely, I know, but if two dons are being voted up for lynching, the town can hardly lose.

vote: Prole

Tally:
Sigurd: 4 (Sasaki, Kagemusha, Myrd, shlin28)
Tincow: 1 (sigurd)
Prole: 1 (Rabbit)

Let's get votes on Sigurd and Prole, people!

CR

[Sasaki Kojiro]

a) He's dead, hence the lack of investigation results.

b) He wanted to bring the other families down, hence his reporting the criminal result upon you which you have to admit was entirely accurate and certainly helped you get lynched.

c) I never said that.


Do keep posting about this though, maybe people will be so distracted they'll forget about TinCow's post where he said that Gibson and Tran were the new stracchi's...

[Sasaki Kojiro]

CR what evidence do you have that prole is mafia?

[Andres]

b) He wanted to bring the other families down, hence his reporting the criminal result upon you which you have to admit was entirely accurate and certainly helped you get lynched.

I won't admit anything. I will take note of this information.



Do keep posting about this though, maybe people will be so distracted they'll forget about TinCow's post where he said that Gibson and Tran were the new stracchi's...

Stracci's, not stracchi's. Without the 'h'.

You mean, we're not dead yet? :jumping:

[FactionHeir]

Hmmm so TC, why should everyone trust JimBob? He may be director and have his FBI contact (which might be dead according to some allusions), but he has a secret role or is part of a mafia family.

Remember him saying he's the last of his crusader group?

[TinCow]

Hmmm so TC, why should everyone trust JimBob? He may be director and have his FBI contact (which might be dead according to some allusions), but he has a secret role or is part of a mafia family.

Everyone who has worked with JimBob knows he is pro-town. The fact that you don't know that is because you are mafia. Which is why you had a guilty result pop up when you were investigated. Which is why I helped vig kill you a couple nights ago.

Townies take note of the names of the people who continue to cast doubt on JimBob. You'll need to remember them for later lynching and vig kills.

[Crazed Rabbit]

CR what evidence do you have that prole is mafia?

The protections, and she said she had a role at the beginning of the game.

Factionheir, aren't you alleged mafia?

CR

[FactionHeir]

I am alleged mafia. But I think you'll note that a detective's guilty result applies to anyone who has participated in a kill, Don, Wiseguy, Made, Townie, even detectives.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

The protections, and she said she had a role at the beginning of the game.

Factionheir, aren't you alleged mafia?

CR

Lots of people have been protected. I don't see why the other families would feel the need to remove a don so much that they would attack her 4 nights in a row. I don't see any evidence against her.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

I'm not sure who to vote for, but Prole has been protected consistently from the beginning of the game. There has to be a reason.

Vote: Proletariat

Tally:
Sigurd: 4 (Sasaki, Kagemusha, Myrd, shlin28)
Tincow: 1 (sigurd)
Prole: 2 (Rabbit, EMFM)

EDIT: BTW, Sasaki, she's been attacked at least once by a singular person. Does that always point to a Mob family? (not a rhetorical question, I'm actually curious)

[Sasaki Kojiro]

EMFM do you believe sigurd is innocent? What makes you think prole wasn't protected by a doctor?

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

EMFM do you believe sigurd is innocent? What makes you think prole wasn't protected by a doctor?

I'm not sure about Sigurd. I haven't been keeping up to date as well as I could have with this thread. Prole, on the other hand, has been attacked and defended constantly. Now, I'm not sure exactly how this works, but since she basically has a guarantee of protection, if she is a non-Mafia, why doesn't she say her role?

[LittleGrizzly]

Vote Tran

Going to put my trust in JimBob

[Sigurd]

I have to go to bed now...

But a lot of interesting information is coming my way.
Be warned, much of it concerns this alleged FBI agent that JimBob has in his employment. This is not looking good for the mafia hiding in his ranks.
More on this tomorrow when I have the chance to piece it all together.

Vote well… and make sure you are able to switch votes when the **** hits the fan.

Good night

[Sarathos]

Vote: Sigurd
Why were you not lynched last phase?
Plus Jimbob is a confirmed town, your not.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

No, I posted what Northnovas did last night, but I knew that first hand, since I was in every single PM discussing the hit. How can that count as forbidden info?

Perhaps I was over-reacting to the source attribution. Maybe I was even confusing players a bit. Future reference, just note your general source a bit and I'll pretty much have to accept it. PMs prior to death would be perfectly acceptable.

Sorry for the confusion.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I am almost positive that I read in the rules that every single player has at least one 'Red' section in their Role. This would mean that every single townie (and wiseguy) has something unusual about them. I admit I cannot find this in the Rule thread at the moment, though. If someone else has seen the same thing, I would appreciate having it pointed out.

You are correct, all players had at least one Red text bullet point.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I'm not sure about Sigurd. I haven't been keeping up to date as well as I could have with this thread. Prole, on the other hand, has been attacked and defended constantly. Now, I'm not sure exactly how this works, but since she basically has a guarantee of protection, if she is a non-Mafia, why doesn't she say her role?

She's never been asked...you want to lynch someone for that over detective results?

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

She's never been asked...you want to lynch someone for that over detective results?

I just think it's a little coincidental that Proletariat has had protection every night.

A question for you: If Sigurd was lynched, given the evidence available, would you lynch Proletariat the next round?

[CountArach]

Vote: Sigurd

Time to bring another Don down.

[Joe Monks]

Vote:Sigurd

I think you are a don and that means lynching.

Joe

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I just think it's a little coincidental that Proletariat has had protection every night.

A question for you: If Sigurd was lynched, given the evidence available, would you lynch Proletariat the next round?

I don't see why you'd take "a little coincidental" over "fbi detective result". I'm trying to see if your voting prole to save your don.

What I get from the attacks is that someone really wants prole dead. I don't see why mafia would attack her every night if they thought she was a don--a don is practically guaranteed protection.

[TruePraetorian]

Vote: Sigurd

I believe TinCow..he has been declared pro-twon from the beginning of the game by numerous people, so why would he lie about detective results?

Also, Drisos did say Sigurd was a don at the very beginning..and he is not playing very pro-town at all. With so many accusations, it would do the town a favor to get rid of such person.

[ajaxfetish]

Mafia status as of N7:

--Stracci. Don: Omanes A. (dead), Luca: Dutch Guy (dead), Made: Andres (dead), NorthNovas (dead), Former associated wise guy: LouisVI (dead), associated wise guys or mades: Tran, Gibson. Calling Card: Pink ballet slippers. Victims: Drisos (detective, N1), Pannonian (wise guy, N3), Motep (wise guy, N5), Louis VI (N6), attempted hits on GH (N2, N3), Proletariat (N4), Craterus (N6), Sasaki (N7), Brave Sir Robin (N7).

--Corleone. Don: Sigurd (according to JimBob's contacts), Luca: Unknown, Made: Tiberius of the Drake (dead), several unknown associated wise guys. Calling Card: Weather balloons and religious paraphernalia. Victims: Glenn (crusader?, N3), Beefy (townie, N3), The Stranger (townie, N3), GH (wise guy, N4), attempted hits on Glenn (N2) and Proletariat (N4, N5, N6?).

--Tataglia. Family member: Makanyane (according to JimBob's contacts)

--Barzini. (Rose group according to Louis), associated wise guy: Ichigo (according to Louis)

--Cunnio.

Rose group (Barzinis according to Louis). Don: Unknown, Luca: Unknown, Made: Unknown, associated wise guys if any: unknown. Calling Card: Rose and a preference for explosives. Victims: Zorg (wise guy, N3), Moros (N4, wise guy or wolf-type character), Chimpyang (townie, N5, black rose), Lt. Pinard (N6), attempted hit on CR (N6, white rose), possible attempted hit on Proletariat (N4).

Italian Destiny group (Tataglia or Cunnio if Louis is correct about the Barzinis). Don: Unknown, Luca: Unknown, Made: Unknown, associated wise guys if any: unknown. Calling Card: an Italian phrase (destiny is inexorable). Victims: Kamikhaan (townie, N5), ajaxfetish (N6), Husar (N7).

According to JimBob and TinCow, TinCow has infiltrated a resurgent Stracci family, consisting of Tran, NorthNovas, and gibsonsg91921. NorthNovas has already been killed, and the two have yet to specify what roles each of the three have.

The Tataglia have responded to the Corleones' call for truce, according to TosaInu's second relayed communication.

Omanes suspected Sigurd to be the don of the Barzinis, JimBob is sure he is the don of the Corleones.

----------------------------------------------------

Musings:

xdeathfire and twilightblade have both fled to the police immediately after being attacked (xdeath on N1, twilight on N5). They may have a similar role, and this action would seem to suggest it's a pro-town one.

Lone killers with calling cards or consistent modi operandi
--.577 Webley. A rogue killer of unknown motivation. A single individual using the same weapon shot both Kommodus (luca, N4) and Woad&Fangs (wise guy, N5).
--King of Hearts. Another lone killer is operating, using knives and leaving King of Hearts playing cards. He participated in killing Woad & Fangs (N5) and Louis VI (N6), and attempted a kill on TinCow (N7). In both cases he was not the only killer involved (the .577 Webley guy also targeted Kommodus and the Stracchis also targeted Louis), yet in both cases each of the killers seemed surprised the other was there. This knife wielder has left the words 'dead rat' and 'traitor' on the cards he has left behind, so may be a mafia-aligned character whose objective is killing those who turn on the mafia from within. This is clearly the case for Louis, though Kommodus story is less clear.

Sasaki's looks like a mafia hit, failed due to protection, Straccis according to TinCow.

Brave Sir Robin was attacked by an incomplete group. Straccis according to TinCow.

Proletariat was attacked it seems by a lone assassin, and a snake charmer at that. Her trustworthy protection comes through yet again, meaning she has been attacked and successfully defended ever since N4 (four nights in a row, now).

Society for Creative Anachronism. JimBob's crusader vigilante team engaged in a failed hit on Tran, who survived possibly due to Luca protection but more likely due to mafia don luck. JimBob claims he also directed the successful hit on NorthNovas, equally theatrical but without the crusader elements.

Husar was a successful mafia hit by the Italian Destiny family.

TinCow's attack is interesting. He was attacked by the King of Hearts, knife-wielding assassin, who seems to be targeting mafia traitors. TinCow's claim to have infiltrated and betrayed the new Straccis would justify this assassin's interest in him. This is the first time the assassin attacked completely alone, and the first time he failed. There was no evidence of a protector for TinCow. Sigurd has suggested that TinCow is in reality a don and survived by luck. Of course Beefy's N1 attack suggests that some regular townies may also have a lucky streak. And there's a third possibility. Perhaps the knife-wielder can't kill a target if he's the only one to attack them. Mr. .577 Webley was also present for Kommodus' killing, and the Straccis for Louis'.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Post-mortem results:

15 pro-town
Townie: Lord Winter, Beefy, taka, the Stranger, FahadI, killfr3nzy, Sapi, Xiahou, Rhythmic, molonthegreat, Chimpyang, Kamikhaan
Detective: Drisos
Crusader?: Glenn, Rob the Celt

10 neutral
Wise Guy: Pevergreen, Hannibal, Pannonian, Zorg, GH, x-Danger, Moros (though Moros may be an unaffiliated mafia member), Motep, WarmasterHorus, Woad&Fangs

4 mafia
Made: Tiberius (Corleone), Andres (Stracci)
Luca: Kommodus (family unknown)
Don: Omanes (Stracchi)

Ajax

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

I don't see why you'd take "a little coincidental" over "fbi detective result". I'm trying to see if your voting prole to save your don.

Sigurd's going to get lynched anyways. BTW, I missed this "evidence" you speak of. Can you refer me to a page? Once again, I'm a little behind with this game, mostly because of Victonia.


What I get from the attacks is that someone really wants prole dead. I don't see why mafia would attack her every night if they thought she was a don--a don is practically guaranteed protection.

Doesn't that mean we should lynch her then? If a Don is guaranteed protection, and she's always protected...really, make the connection.

[TinCow]

ajaxfetish, here is the info you requested. To make sure this complies with the rules, I want to emphasize that all of this information was provided to me in PMs from the living Stracchi (Andres, Dutch_guy, and eventually Northnovas and gibson91921) before they died. If anyone really doubts this information, I can dig up the PMs to prove it.

Northnovas was promoted to Made after N5. He had been working with the Stracchi since N4, and officially joined the family mid-way through N7.

gibson91921 is still a wiseguy, but is ready for advancement to Made. He has been working with the Stracchi since N4, and officially joined the family mid-way through N7.

Tran is probably still a wiseguy, but I'm not 100% sure about that. At a minimum, he is probably ready for advancement to Made He has been working with the Stracchi since before I got access to their information, but I do not know if he has ever officially joined the family.

The kills Northnovas and gibson participated in are as follows:
N2 - taka - failed
N3 - taka - succeeded (with GH)
N4 - Xiahou - succeeded (with GH)
N5 - Motep - succeeded
N6 - Craterus - failed
N7 - Sasaki - failed

I have less information on Tran, but I was informed of the following:
N6 - Louis VI - succeeded (with Dutch_guy)
N7 - Brave_Sir_Robin - failed

[TinCow]

Oh, wouldn't want to forget my vote.

Vote: Sigurd

[Warluster]

I have to agree with TinCow on this one; Sigurd in my eyes has come across as scummy; and his attempts at making everyone not vote for him so he can reveal this 'sepcial info' seem scummy as well.

Though probably not needed with the overwhelming votes now:
Vote: Sigurd

[ajaxfetish]

Thanks, TinCow ~:).

I'll update my post.

Ajax

[Haudegen]

Current tally

Sigurd - 10 (Sasaki, Kage, Myrddraal, shlin, sarathos, CA, Joe Monks, True Praetorian, TinCow, Warluster)

Proletatriat - 2 (CR, EMFM)

Tran - 1 (Little Grizzly)

TinCow 1 (Sigurd)

vote: abstain

for now.

[Husar]

It's interesting how both Louis and I died after Crazed Rabbit gave us certain information, also note that I attacked him in the thread and said I had more evidence that he may be guilty, now I'm dead, interesting, isn't it?
He's also the guy who claims that Sigurd has to die and who keeps attacking prole in the thread and I believe both of them (especially prole) to be innocent, I know why prole survived, I organized it, but I wasn't her luca.

That doesn't mean I won't have fun seeing the town go down because so far a lot of what I have seen in this thread seems like "we"(I wouldn't count certain people into this group) deserve it. :sweatdrop:

[Ironside]

Anyone noticed that Sasaki was protected by a surgeon?


fact, more than a few rounds had ricocheted dangerously close to the shooters themselves. They themselves had come closer to death than their target!

This would indicate that Prole has probably been protected by both doctors, one before that's now a surgeon and tonight the other doctor. I would say that it means that she got one really important role and some of the mafia knows about it.

That or Seamus is fooling us with the unknown protector and she's a don. But I don't think there's enough single saves to promote a surgeon if you count out Prole.

For voting I'll run the classical
Vote: Abstain

Sigurd will most likely go today, but I would like to see this information he claims he got first.

[Twilightblade]

Vote: Abstain

I dunno who to vote

[Ferret]

vote:Proletariat

I'd liek to see a defence

[Husar]

vote:Proletariat

I'd liek to see a defence
I'd like to see a reason, I just gave you a defense but maybe you're unable to read? Or just guilty? :inquisitive:

[TinCow]

The Prole situation is very easy to resolve. She has been protected by a single person on every single night that she was attacked, even the night when Husar claims his group protected her as well. That's either a Doctor/Surgeon or a Luca. If it's a Doctor/Surgeon, that person should be perfectly happy informing JimBob that they have been protecting Prole. JimBob is 100% trustworthy and he will not pass on information to anyone else, even other pro-townies, if you ask it of him. All that is required to clear Prole is for the Doctor/Surgeon to contact JimBob and explain the situation. Then JimBob can tell us that Prole is cleared of suspicion and we can start looking at other targets. Since there is no reason for a Doctor/Surgeon not to talk to JimBob, we can also conclude that if he is not contacted by anyone, that Prole is protected by a Luca.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

The Prole situation is very easy to resolve. She has been protected by a single person on every single night that she was attacked, even the night when Husar claims his group protected her as well. That's either a Doctor/Surgeon or a Luca. If it's a Doctor/Surgeon, that person should be perfectly happy informing JimBob that they have been protecting Prole. JimBob is 100% trustworthy and he will not pass on information to anyone else, even other pro-townies, if you ask it of him. All that is required to clear Prole is for the Doctor/Surgeon to contact JimBob and explain the situation. Then JimBob can tell us that Prole is cleared of suspicion and we can start looking at other targets. Since there is no reason for a Doctor/Surgeon not to talk to JimBob, we can also conclude that if he is not contacted by anyone, that Prole is protected by a Luca.

Precisely. ~:)

[Myrddraal]

Anyone noticed that Sasaki was protected by a surgeon?



This would indicate that Prole has probably been protected by both doctors, one before that's now a surgeon and tonight the other doctor. I would say that it means that she got one really important role and some of the mafia knows about it.

That or Seamus is fooling us with the unknown protector and she's a don. But I don't think there's enough single saves to promote a surgeon if you count out Prole.

For voting I'll run the classical
Vote: Abstain

Sigurd will most likely go today, but I would like to see this information he claims he got first.


Reading this post I decided to check that conclusion.

This is Seamus' attacked list:

Attacked: (27) Andres (N2, N3), Beefy187 (N1), Brave Sir Robin (N7), Caius (N3), Craterus (N6), Crazed Rabbit (N6), Cowhead418 (N2), Evil_Maniac from Mars (N3), GeneralHankerchief (N2, N3), Glenn (N1, N2), Kagemusha (N6), Proletariat (N4, N4, N5, N6, N7), Sasaki Kojiro (N5, N7), taka (N2), Tran (N5, N7), TinCow (N7), Twilightblade (N4, N5), Xdeathfire (N1)


Going through all this:
(Key:
Protected by a townie group or Seamus' police (as director)
Protected by individual
Seemingly lucky escape)

Andres N2: Protected by Seamus' policemen (he was director).
Andres N3: Protected by a LaSalle driver.

Beefy187 N1: Survives by luck?

Brave Sir Robin N7: Attack fails. Only one attacker, missing a partner.

Caius N3: Attack fails. Multiple attackers turn up, but not enough, his escape is uncovered.

Craterus N6: Protected by a lone man, who pushes a bed to cover his fall.

Crazed Rabbit N6: Attacked by white rose mafia, attack fails, only one attacker turns up.

Cowhead418 N2: Saved by his landlady. This doesn't seem like a protector, rather it seems more like another lucky escape.

Evil_Maniac from Mars N3: Attacked by 2 people, but escapes. Seamus' comment "If the attackers had been only a bit better organized…" implies that it failed due to insufficient attackers.

GeneralHankerchief N2: Attacked by asian mafia, only one out of 2 attackers turn up, attack fails.
GeneralHankerchief N3: Attacked by several attackers, but survives by luck.

Glenn N1: Protected by a lone pretzel vendor.
Glenn N2: Protected by a lone gunman.

Kagemusha N6: Attacked by 2 gunmen, protected by a lone secretive waiter.

Proletariat N4: Attacked by weatherballoon mafia, somebody cuts the ropes to save her.
Proletariat N4: Attacked by Stacci, protected by lone car driver
Proletariat N5: Attacked by a single St. Michael man, defended by cloaked and masked figure and a townie protection group of 4 people
Proletariat N6: Attacked by a lone syringe armed attacker, protected by masked figure
Proletariat N7: Attacked by snake thrower, protected by snake catcher.

Sasaki N5: Pushed into road by lone attacker, who's partner doesn't show up to run him over. Attack fails.
Sasaki N7: Protected by lone car replacer

Taka N2: Survives by amazing luck

Tran N5: Attacked by two, but it's not enough, he escapes through an uncovered exit. Attack fails.
Tran N7: Attacked by JimBob's vigilante group, survives by luck

TinCow N7: Attacked by lone assasin (Playing card man), survives by luck?

TwilightBlade N4: Attacked by two car drivers, but not enough, one alley is uncovered. Attack fails.
TwilightBlade N5: Attacked by three people, but not enough, the back of the truck is uncovered. Attack fails.

Xdeathfire N1: Attacked by lone gunman, this isn't enough, the attack fails.






So, what can we conclude from all this. Firstly, townie protection groups aren't doing so well, with only one successful protection, which was covered anyway.

Secondly, we have 11 individual protections. However, as Ironside pointed out, we seem to have seen only our first surgeon protection last night.


Doctor:

May protect one person from murder each night phase (this protection extends to multiple attempts). Acts as a Townie in other respects. After 2 successful protections (attacked, did not die), the Doctor becomes a Surgeon.

This means that either we have a lot of doctors, who are getting one or two protections each, or we have some Luca's in the equation.

The interesting part is Prole's protectors. Of the 11 individual protections, 5 have been protecting prole.

Now it seems to me this can only be one individual protecting her. It would be a remarkable coincidence if three doctors had been sharing her protection duty, all of them avoiding becoming a surgeon.

And yet, prole's protector clearly is not a surgeon. In the last protection, he reaches out and grabs a snake, but instead of throwing it at the attacker (or doing anything which might threaten the attacker) he simply ties the dead snake to a locked door.

I submit therefore that Prole must be protected by a Luca, which makes her a Don. Perhaps the FBI agent could check this out?


Other things to note. We have a lot of people surviving by luck. Some of them have confirmed roles, and are not Dons. Hence surviving an attack by luck is not enough to make a man suspicious. (This didn't stop Sigurd leaping on this to divert attention away from himself).


EDIT: spelling

[Makanyane]

It's interesting how both Louis and I died after Crazed Rabbit gave us certain information, ............
I know you're limited in what you can say now dead :sad3: but I can't figure out what you mean by that connection, he told you something then decided to kill you afterwards for knowing it? or he/you then told someone else the information and were killed because someone else knew you knew.. ~:confused:



Vote:Sigurd
on overall weight of evidence (Drisos) and not because I trust all JimBob's contacts too much

speaking of which JimBob are you ever going to tell town what sources those results come from? Not asking for names just type of source... Detective A, FBI detective B, inspired guesswork (see TinCow on TP), or results kindly supplied by Sasaki from his trusty Made.... ?

[Myrddraal]

Also, if gibsong is a known made gangster, why not try for a double lynch? If the mafia screw it up, it doesn't really matter. A dead made is a good to the town (if not better) as a dead don.

Unvote: Sigurd

Vote: gibsong

Using the last posted tally:

Sigurd - 10 (Sasaki, Kage, shlin, sarathos, CA, Joe Monks, True Praetorian, TinCow, Warluster, Makanyane)

Proletatriat - 3 (CR, EMFM, Elite Ferret)

gibsong - 1 (Myrddraal)

Tran - 1 (Little Grizzly)

TinCow - 1 (Sigurd)

Abstain - 3 (Haudegen, Ironside, Twilightblade)

[Haudegen]

I wonder if Sigurd will show up with his ground breaking informations.

unvote: abstain
vote: Sigurd

in order to demonstrate that my patience is limited :whip:

Sigurd - 11 (Sasaki, Kage, shlin, sarathos, CA, Joe Monks, True Praetorian, TinCow, Warluster, Makanyane, Haudegen)

Proletatriat - 3 (CR, EMFM, Elite Ferret)

gibsong - 1 (Myrddraal)

Tran - 1 (Little Grizzly)

TinCow - 1 (Sigurd)

Abstain - 2 (Ironside, Twilightblade)

[TinCow]

Also, if gibsong is a known made gangster, why not try for a double lynch? If the mafia screw it up, it doesn't really matter. A dead made is a good to the town (if not better) as a dead don.

gibson is not a known Made. All the information I saw was that he was a wiseguy, but with enough kills under his belt to be promoted to Made next time he makes a kill. Currently, though I believe him to still be a wiseguy.

He certainly needs to be disposed of, but I consider him a much lower level target than Sigurd. I would even put Tran above gibson at this point.

[Husar]

The Prole situation is very easy to resolve. She has been protected by a single person on every single night that she was attacked, even the night when Husar claims his group protected her as well. That's either a Doctor/Surgeon or a Luca. If it's a Doctor/Surgeon, that person should be perfectly happy informing JimBob that they have been protecting Prole. JimBob is 100% trustworthy and he will not pass on information to anyone else, even other pro-townies, if you ask it of him. All that is required to clear Prole is for the Doctor/Surgeon to contact JimBob and explain the situation. Then JimBob can tell us that Prole is cleared of suspicion and we can start looking at other targets. Since there is no reason for a Doctor/Surgeon not to talk to JimBob, we can also conclude that if he is not contacted by anyone, that Prole is protected by a Luca.
Bollox. I told the doctor and prole that his identity should stay between the three of us as he is basically her health insurance, you can ask Louis as we workes closely together and I told him the same, he doesn't know the doctor's identity either. Since he(the doctor, now surgeon) is one of the few townies who are actually reliable and intelligent, he obviously kept it to himself.


The interesting part is Prole's protectors. [/B]Of the 11 individual protections, 5 have been protecting prole.

Now it seems to me this can only be one individual protecting her. It would be a remarkable coincidence if three doctors had been sharing her protection duty, all of them avoiding becoming a surgeon.

And yet, prole's protector clearly is not a surgeon. In the last protection, he reaches out and grabs a snake, but instead of throwing it at the attacker (or doing anything which might threaten the attacker) he simply ties the dead snake to a locked door.

I submit therefore that Prole must be protected by a Luca, which makes her a Don. Perhaps the FBI agent could check this out?
I didn't read your whole post but this is bollox as well. You're assuming things you cannot assume because you don't know how a surgeon works or how a protection of a surgeon would look. You might however have read that last night the protector tried to get a weapon out, I don't remember the exact text but he fought the attacker and tried to ready a weapon, the chance to score a kill on the attacker is only 1/3rd and since the attacker is lonely we can be pretty sure it's a special role and not two mafia mades doing the attack, this may be a hint at the attacker having a higher chance to survive, the description said he was a very strong person. Since it has been mentioned before my death I guess it's okay when I say I was part of the townie group that protected prole once. I knew she had double protection and like I said above, the doctor was her health assurance in case the townie group would fail as I had several failures in protection before. And it's not like there was anyone else worthwhile to protect anyway. If you don't believe me, fine, I'm not sure you're innocent either. ~;p


I know you're limited in what you can say now dead :sad3: but I can't figure out what you mean by that connection, he told you something then decided to kill you afterwards for knowing it? or he/you then told someone else the information and were killed because someone else knew you knew.. ~:confused:
No, he said certain things in the night Louis died and gave me a protection target which I should protect, I didn't believe him and protected someone else, turned out this someone else died, protection failure of shlin(he mentioned it here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=1838605#post1838605) and here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=1838616#post1838616))
Well, the target that was oh so likely to be attacked according to CR wasn't attacked at all. He may have killed Louis and me simply because he gave us certain other information we cannot mention now but we didn't believe him and attacked him in the thread. Maybe I should've gone ahead earlier but I saw a chance that his info might not be a bunch of lies after all but I guess it was, or maybe he's just very bad at selling it.
If he does have good intentions I appologize but I simply don't see anything he tried or had in mind turned out well and then Louis and I die before we can make certain info about him public, if that isn't interesting then I don't know what is.

[Caius]

I know you're limited in what you can say now dead :sad3: but I can't figure out what you mean by that connection, he told you something then decided to kill you afterwards for knowing it? or he/you then told someone else the information and were killed because someone else knew you knew.. ~:confused:



Vote:Sigurd
on overall weight of evidence (Drisos) and not because I trust all JimBob's contacts too much

speaking of which JimBob are you ever going to tell town what sources those results come from? Not asking for names just type of source... Detective A, FBI detective B, inspired guesswork (see TinCow on TP), or results kindly supplied by Sasaki from his trusty Made.... ?
Now thats scummy Makanyane. You are claiming that JimBob reveal the names and all the evidence so your mafia family can go and kill the FBI detective this night?

[TinCow]

Bollox. I told the doctor and prole that his identity should stay between the three of us as he is basically her health insurance, you can ask Louis as we workes closely together and I told him the same, he doesn't know the doctor's identity either. Since he(the doctor, now surgeon) is one of the few townies who are actually reliable and intelligent, he obviously kept it to himself.

Hmm. Well, I want to believe you because I do think you have been working for the town from the beginning. However, what guarantee do we have that you haven't been fooled by them? Part of my personal difficulty is that I have not seen Prole do anything to help the town at any time. If she's so important that she has convinced a doctor to protect her every single day, then surely she should be doing something significant to help us. I don't see that happening. If she is pro-town, she had better start producing something to justify this constant Doctor protection.

[Proletariat]

There's no sense in me revealing my role in the thread now. I've revealed already to a few certain protown players who can vouch for me. Right now I prefer watching this weak bandwagon on me by players like EMFM (criminal). Husar already detailed how I've been protected and it's 100% correct. What else do you want? The actual doctor's name?

Earlier in the game when I had information on GH and suspicions of Sasaki, I brought them to the thread and I was asked to hush or get my head straight. I was absolutely right about GH and wrong, (maybe not altogether, but in my reasoning anyway) about Sasaki. Since then I've been working through PMs and using the small amount of reliable information to make decisions.

These lynches have mostly been disasters or mistakes so far, so I don't know what you're expecting me to pull off in this thread.

Vote: Tran Sigurd is either as good as dead or will exonerate himself, and plus, I'm one of those weird townies that votes to lynch confirmed mafia.

Tally soon

[Proletariat]

Sigurd - 11 (Sasaki, Kage, shlin, sarathos, CA, Joe Monks, True Praetorian, TinCow, Warluster, Makanyane, Haudegen)

Proletatriat - 3 (CR, EMFM, Elite Ferret)

gibsong - 1 (Myrddraal)

Tran - 2 (Little Grizzly, Prole)

Abstain - 2 (Ironside, Twilightblade)

[Sigurd]

Ok.. I am sorry that I was not able to do this earlier.
RL and family at weekends demands my time.

I have pieced together all the small hints and insinuations I have received via pm.
And here is what came out of it.

Jimbob, I don’t know what you are doing but you are dishonest regarding this FBI agent claim.
You have at least one Don infiltrating your organisation. This Don is posing as your FBI agent. But I have suspicions that you already know this. This is why the pro-town should take heed. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
You suddenly changed your claim over night from alluding to two investigations on me that were both guilty to one innocent and one guilty. Why did you mention two investigations in the first place and make us all think you got two guilty reads. And you probably know by now that it would be a 1/18 chance of finding a Don from that second investigation. But I take it you didn’t know this or the Don mole didn’t when posting the claim.

I am probably un-saveable at this point so I might as well spill out all I know about this since I wouldn’t be able to do so after I die.
I am not a Don, but I have worked for the mafia. I have been contacted several times by Capo II’s version of the Wolf. This wolf has put me in contact with the most powerful Dons. They are allowed to call in favours in the form of hits. I am the Hitman. I killed w&f, Louis and lastly tried to kill TinCow. They were all orders from the mafia Dons. My win conditions will be a result of how many points I am able to gain from these killings.

I was contacted last night by several of the dead Mafiosi who relayed messages from their Dons. Apparently CR infiltrated the Don meetings and by using his pro-account read IP addresses of the different posters. Apparently he found one belonging to BKKB which is the largest ISP in Hordaland. It is the state owned power company and the IP would have been the backbone address. Now… I suspect that CR relayed this information to Jimbob and posed as the FBI agent.
Am I correct?
Yes CR got through the pm checks and got into the meeting hiding as a Don. Apparently he didn’t fail any of the tests showing that he had his hands on a genuine Capo II Don Role pm. He didn’t even stumble on choosing one of the 5 names.

Back to the IP thing. A lot of Norwegians use this ISP and would have the same back bone address. I suspect there are other players from my part of the world in this game?

The point is… there were no FBI agent investigations… It is all a hoax and Jimbob, CR and Tincow are all in it together.
I suspect foul play and the town should take action and demand a proper explanation. For me it is probably too late. You will all see that I am not Don Corleone but the Hitman in about three days.

CR is a Don, Tincow might be a Don… Sasaki I am not sure about. There is nothing that I can point at, other than pushing for my lynch based on non existing FBI agent investigations.
I have been contacted by the FBI agent or someone close to the FBI agent. This FBI agent does not trust that Jimbob does what is right for the town. He should cleanse his organisation of moles first.

My role is neutral so I don’t care either way.

[TinCow]

Earlier in the game when I had information on GH and suspicions of Sasaki, I brought them to the thread and I was asked to hush or get my head straight.

Please accept my apologies for that. I did that intentionally to try to keep GH alive, since his lynch votes were getting very high. I suppose that deserves an explanation...

At that point, I was working with GH, Northnovas, and gibson in an attempt to make a 6th mafia family. When GH died, that became pointless (I was a townie, so there was no possibility to make kills with the three surviving members). The rest wanted to join the Stracchi, but I thought that was a bad idea and wanted to go pro-town. I tried to convince them of this, but I stopped when it became obvious that I was the only one who held that position. So, I pretended to go along with their plan, with them thinking I was operating as an informant within the townie groups. In fact, I was giving all my information to JimBob and helping influence the Stracchi to hit mafia targets instead of townie targets. JimBob can confirm this, as I came clean on everything early on. When the Stracchi decided to start targeting townies, we decided it was time to eliminate them for good, hence last night's actions and the information I have provided since then.

Again, apologies for that 'attack' post earlier. It was an intentional tactic on my part to keep votes off of GH.

[Proletariat]

Please accept my apologies for that. I did that intentionally to try to keep GH alive, since his lynch votes were getting very high. I suppose that deserves an explanation...


No apology necessary at all, since you were quite right. Up to that point all I was basically posting was 'LYNCH GH' with only a little substance. I just wanted to explain why no one's getting any crowd moving speeches out of me. Louis had a few posts that were perfectly clear and laid everything out in detail in those rounds but they still fell on deaf ears. At that point I was convinced no one but the mafia players were even interested in the game, so I got a little more quiet in the thread.

btw, missed Sigurd's vote on TinCow, sorry

[Sigurd]

Taking Haudegen's tally and putting my vote back into Prole's version.

Sigurd - 11 (Sasaki, Kage, shlin, sara, CA, JMonks, TP, TinCow, Warluster, Mak, Haudegen)
Proletatriat - 3 (CR, EMFM, Elite Ferret)
Tran - 2 (Little Grizzly, Prole)
TinCow - 1 (Sigurd)
gibsong - 1 (Myrddraal)

Abstain - 2 (Ironside, Twilightblade)

[GeneralHankerchief]

At that point, I was working with GH, Northnovas, and gibson in an attempt to make a 6th mafia family. When GH died, that became pointless (I was a townie, so there was no possibility to make kills with the three surviving members). The rest wanted to join the Stracchi, but I thought that was a bad idea and wanted to go pro-town. I tried to convince them of this, but I stopped when it became obvious that I was the only one who held that position. So, I pretended to go along with their plan, with them thinking I was operating as an informant within the townie groups. In fact, I was giving all my information to JimBob and helping influence the Stracchi to hit mafia targets instead of townie targets. JimBob can confirm this, as I came clean on everything early on. When the Stracchi decided to start targeting townies, we decided it was time to eliminate them for good, hence last night's actions and the information I have provided since then.

I still say you took the easy way out. Where's your sense of adventure?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Well, sigurds explanation seems entirely reasonable. Unless someone can see part of his story that doesn't check out or Jimbob can post the part of the fbi detective role pm that shows how he can find a don then maybe we should switch to tran.

unvote:sigurd,vote:tran

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I still say you took the easy way out. Where's your sense of adventure?

I for one am very disappointed in all the mafia betrayers we've had this game. Either plan the infiltration from the beginning or stick with the family, don't quit when going gets rough and snitch :laugh4:

[Crazed Rabbit]

unvote: Prole
vote: Sigurd

One flaw in your big 'expose' there Sigurd - I don't have a pro account with any chat room places, or any websites in the world. By that I assume something you have to pay to obtain.

And about the don meeting - if it was a meeting of dons, and I don't think there are any other Norwegian players in the game (Norwegian Nerd apparently doesn't live there), then how would a Norwegian IP show up if you were not at the meeting? Unless the hitman was invited to chat at the don meeting, which would be silly if it was a don meeting.

Sasaki - Sigurd is a mafia killer who can kill on his own, if you believe him.

tally
Sigurd - 11 ( Kage, CR, shlin, sara, CA, JMonks, TP, TinCow, Warluster, Mak, Haudegen)
Proletatriat - 2 (EMFM, Elite Ferret)
Tran - 3 (Little Grizzly, Prole, Sasaki)
TinCow - 1 (Sigurd)
gibsong - 1 (Myrddraal)

CR

[Myrddraal]

@Sigurd.

I can see that this might all be set up to save you. Andres communicates to the mafia through the public thread (when he could have gone private through dead confirmed mafia) something about a Hitman, and then you come up with this.

I'm inclined to believe that a Hitman role exists, it fits the descriptions, but why should we believe it's you. After all, if you are a mafia don you'd know all about the hitman role.

So if you want me to not vote for you, you have to convince me that you're going pro-town. So spill the beans, you didn't reveal all yet.

Who's the wolf, who are the mafia dons.

If you don't tell, then whatever the case you are still pro-mafia, and should be lynched.

Unvote: gibsong

Vote: Sigurd

Sigurd - 12 (Sasaki, Kage, shlin, sara, CA, JMonks, TP, TinCow, Warluster, Mak, Haudegen, Myrddraal)
Proletatriat - 3 (CR, EMFM, Elite Ferret)
Tran - 2 (Little Grizzly, Prole)
TinCow - 1 (Sigurd)

Abstain - 2 (Ironside, Twilightblade)

[Myrddraal]

New tally (I missed the most recent post)

tally
Sigurd - 12 ( Kage, CR, shlin, sara, CA, JMonks, TP, TinCow, Warluster, Mak, Haudegen, Myrddraal)
Proletatriat - 2 (EMFM, Elite Ferret)
Tran - 3 (Little Grizzly, Prole, Sasaki)
TinCow - 1 (Sigurd)

[Sigurd]

unvote: Prole
vote: Sigurd

One flaw in your big 'expose' there Sigurd - I don't have a pro account with any chat room places, or any websites in the world. By that I assume something you have to pay to obtain.

And about the don meeting - if it was a meeting of dons, and I don't think there are any other Norwegian players in the game (Norwegian Nerd apparently doesn't live there), then how would a Norwegian IP show up if you were not at the meeting? Unless the hitman was invited to chat at the don meeting, which would be silly if it was a don meeting.

Sasaki - Sigurd is a mafia killer who can kill on his own, if you believe him.

CR
I am just using the pieces of information that I got.

So you are saying you never attended the Don meeting or never posed as Don?
I have two different players claim this. One says you told this in confidence and bragging about it, another comes from the mafia itself.

[Proletariat]

Shame we can't get an extension on this vote. It'll be interesting later to see who lined up where on this lynch.

[Sigurd]

@Sigurd.

I can see that this might all be set up to save you. Andres communicates to the mafia through the public thread (when he could have gone private through dead confirmed mafia) something about a Hitman, and then you come up with this.

I'm inclined to believe that a Hitman role exists, it fits the descriptions, but why should we believe it's you. After all, if you are a mafia don you'd know all about the hitman role.

So if you want me to not vote for you, you have to convince me that you're going pro-town. So spill the beans, you didn't reveal all yet.

Who's the wolf, who are the mafia dons.

If you don't tell, then whatever the case you are still pro-mafia, and should be lynched.

Unvote: gibsong

Vote: Sigurd

Sigurd - 12 (Sasaki, Kage, shlin, sara, CA, JMonks, TP, TinCow, Warluster, Mak, Haudegen, Myrddraal)
Proletatriat - 3 (CR, EMFM, Elite Ferret)
Tran - 2 (Little Grizzly, Prole)
TinCow - 1 (Sigurd)

Abstain - 2 (Ironside, Twilightblade)

I don't really know the identities of the Dons. The Shadow never told and he is dead now anyways. I get the orders from Seamus.
I have my suspicions of who they are though. I named two. Lynch them and in three days you will know for sure.
But I can't really say more since I am dead and this belong in the red sections of my pm...
It has been a fun game...

[Crazed Rabbit]

I am just using the pieces of information that I got.

So you are saying you never attended the Don meeting or never posed as Don?
I have two different players claim this. One says you told this in confidence and bragging about it, another comes from the mafia itself.

Well, clearly that information is wrong.

Earlier you presumed to tell the town how to run its business. You are an admitted mafia role, and so whatever you suggest should be ignored.

You also haven't addressed the hole in your logic:

And about the don meeting - if it was a meeting of dons, and I don't think there are any other Norwegian players in the game (Norwegian Nerd apparently doesn't live there), then how would a Norwegian IP show up if you were not at the meeting? Unless the hitman was invited to chat at the don meeting, which would be silly if it was a don meeting.

You should be especially ignored if you claim to advise the town and know mafia roles, but withhold them from the town.

CR

[Sasaki Kojiro]

unvote,vote:sigurd

You can't hold back on names.

[Myrddraal]

You're not dead yet. Reveal what you can.

[Sigurd]

unvote,vote:sigurd

You can't hold back on names.
It is past the deadline

I am now officially dead... and there is another Norwegian player.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Don't do it, Sigurd! Don't give them the names! If the mafia has any hope of winning, the Dons must remain protected.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Lame excuse, Sigurd. Think of this as the period were you are being taken to the gallows. You can still talk.

Who's the other Norwegian player?


Don't do it, Sigurd! Don't give them the names! If the mafia has any hope of winning, the Dons must remain protected.

LOL! From a self proclaimed 'pro town' player!

CR

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Well, I doubt the hitman was a pro town character. I thought maybe we could get you to work for the town the way the serial killer did last game.

You aren't officially dead until seamus posts and you know that.

[GeneralHankerchief]

LOL! From a self proclaimed 'pro town' player!

Oh come on, I think that charade is pretty well shot.

[Crazed Rabbit]

I'd agree. I was just remembering a couple days ago, when you used your postmortem as proof of your pro-townness.

We can't even trust the dead who are found not guilty by Seamus's officers.

CR

[Sigurd]

I you want anything from me... admit that the FBI agent claim is false. Only then can I trust the information I got.

The shadow (Capo II's version of the Wolf) was a dutchman. I am not sure if I am allowed to actually name him (red section).

And as I said... I don't know the name of the Dons. And the IP thing, if CR is claiming it is all false, is no longer relevant. This other player could be framed as I was.
I don't know who Don Corleone is or the others. All I know is that someone claimed that CR infiltrated the Don meeting posing as a Don and using a genuine pm to get in.
The other is TinCow's magically survival of my hit. I have a better chance of killing than other mades or serial killers.
I can even penetrate protections. I guess it was intended that i should take hand of infiltrations. The shadow would contact the most powerful dons and solicit kills.
Apparently large families would have problems with infiltrations. And I guess all my targets were infiltrators or traitors.

[TinCow]

I don't really know the identities of the Dons. The Shadow never told and he is dead now anyways. I get the orders from Seamus.
I have my suspicions of who they are though. I named two. Lynch them and in three days you will know for sure.

Your information truly is worthless then, because you named me. It is very well known that I participated in the vigilante hits on Factionheir and Northnovas. If you check the write-up, those hits were made by 4 people. If I was a Don, my participation would not have counted, and thus they could only have succeeded if all three other participants were wiseguys. I will not produce the names of the people who helped me on those hits, since I do not want to expose them. But there are a good number of people who know who at least some of those people are, and several of them are verified townies.

Even if Sigurd is the Hitman, I think he's a perfect lynch. His role is pro-Mafia and he can kill on his own. That's even more dangerous than a Made.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Why don't you all hang Tran now and get to the bottom of this first? :idea2:


* fades away *

[TinCow]

Another point regarding Sigurd's preposterous claims... if CR was a Don, why would he want the Hitman dead? Clearly the Hitman helps all mafia families, so lynching him will hurt them. CR has been gunning for Sigurd for the last several days. Sigurd's statements make no sense at all.

[Sigurd]

Your information truly is worthless then, because you named me. It is very well known that I participated in the vigilante hits on Factionheir and Northnovas. If you check the write-up, those hits were made by 4 people. If I was a Don, my participation would not have counted, and thus they could only have succeeded if all three other participants were wiseguys. I will not produce the names of the people who helped me on those hits, since I do not want to expose them. But there are a good number of people who know who at least some of those people are, and several of them are verified townies.

Even if Sigurd is the Hitman, I think he's a perfect lynch. His role is pro-Mafia and he can kill on his own. That's even more dangerous than a Made.
I have been lynched.. you can't undo that.

[Sigurd]

Another point regarding Sigurd's preposterous claims... if CR was a Don, why would he want the Hitman dead? Clearly the Hitman helps all mafia families, so lynching him will hurt them. CR has been gunning for Sigurd for the last several days. Sigurd's statements make no sense at all.
I see... you still hold to the 'Sigurd is Don Corleone' theory?
Well, you know who to lynch when my hitman result comes up in three days time.
The only way TinCow and CR will win this is if they are able to cripple the town before then. Well played.

[TinCow]

I see... you still hold to the 'Sigurd is Don Corleone' theory?

No, I find your statements somewhat believable. I don't hold to your "CR and TinCow are Dons" theory. They are completely at odds with the known facts.

[Caius]

Now TinCow, is really JimBob a Don?

[Sigurd]

No, I find your statements somewhat believable. I don't hold to your "CR and TinCow are Dons" theory. They are completely at odds with the known facts.
Well.. what have you to say about the FBI investigations? the ones you saw yourself?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

So tincow, if before you assured us that there was an fbi informant and now you are saying you believe sigurd to be the hitman, what does that mean?

[TinCow]

Well.. what have you to say about the FBI investigations? the ones you saw yourself?

I say that I have seen the results and I have a great deal of reason to believe that the person who provided them was or is indeed the real FBI detective. I am not foolish enough to say the name of the person in this thread.

[TinCow]

So tincow, if before you assured us that there was an fbi informant and now you are saying you believe sigurd to be the hitman, what does that mean?

It means that JimBob and I have more information that we have not given out for security reasons. You can either believe that, or you can believe that we are mafia. I leave that choice up to you.

[Proletariat]

Is there actually an FBI agent between CR, JimBob and TinCow? Or did you guys just see the Norwegian ip and assume Sigurd is a Don, then claim FBI to lend weight to it?

That's basically what I've gotten so far, and now Tran gets another night for killing/recruiting/promoting.

[TinCow]

So, you're saying that even assuming that Sigurd is the Hitman, you'd prefer to eliminate Tran, a wiseguy, than a mafia-ally that can kill by himself?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

dude, there's a surgeon out there, a couple doctors, and plenty of protection groups. You don't even have to reveal the name of the person, just tell us why he claimed sigurd was a don when it seems he might be the hitman. Not that sigurd isn't good at faking a roleclaim but his didn't have a real "trying to save myself" feel to it. Do you still believe sigurd is a don?

There are more options than you telling the truth or you being mafia.

[TinCow]

I'll leave that decision up to JimBob. He has had a lot more contact with the FBI detective than I have. His opinion would also carry far more weight than mine under the current circumstances.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Long post, so spoiled:


I for one am very disappointed in all the mafia betrayers we've had this game. Either plan the infiltration from the beginning or stick with the family, don't quit when going gets rough and snitch
Hoho, hold your horses there matey. This game is played through PM and I have been in close contact with some fine town players from the start of the game. One of which in particular made me an offer I couldn't refuse. If I wanted to play mafia, I could've done some very interesting things. The temptation was there...~;)

************************


I want to emphasize that all of this information was provided to me in PMs from the living Stracchi (Andres, Dutch_guy, and eventually Northnovas and gibson91921) before they died. If anyone really doubts this information, I can dig up the PMs to prove it.

Northnovas was promoted to Made after N5. He had been working with the Stracchi since N4, and officially joined the family mid-way through N7.

gibson91921 is still a wiseguy, but is ready for advancement to Made. He has been working with the Stracchi since N4, and officially joined the family mid-way through N7.

Tran is probably still a wiseguy, but I'm not 100% sure about that. At a minimum, he is probably ready for advancement to Made He has been working with the Stracchi since before I got access to their information, but I do not know if he has ever officially joined the family.

The kills Northnovas and gibson participated in are as follows:
N2 - taka - failed
N3 - taka - succeeded (with GH)
N4 - Xiahou - succeeded (with GH)
N5 - Motep - succeeded
N6 - Craterus - failed
N7 - Sasaki - failed

I have less information on Tran, but I was informed of the following:
N6 - Louis VI - succeeded (with Dutch_guy)
N7 - Brave_Sir_Robin - failedWhen did you get the information that there was going to be an attack on me? Before, or after the attack? Why wasn't I informed?
Also, why have you been pushing for my lynch even after you had 'infiltrated' the Stracchi's? And why did you let the Strachi's kill innocents?

Go ahead - check my lynch vote record, all of my votes were on dubious characters from the very start, i.e., during my time undercover. Know what I think? I think that I infiltrated the Stracchi's and in the meantime tried to save Glenn from a lynch, helped organise protection groups on him, tried to sway the Stracchi's to kill players who turned up criminal, (GH, Panno), and was quite succesful behind the scenes in the town movement.
You, on the other hand, go around killing innocents, vote to have pro-town players lynched, use your big project Mayhem to misdirect protection groups to people you know aren't going to be attacked, and then rat out the Stracchi's when you are found out. :idea2:

On n6 and n7 there were four attackers from this family. Dutch died yesterday, so he was probably the fourth on n6. But who was the fourth on n7? And who was the fifth one on n7? The one who didn't show up - that person with questionable parentage? You yourself?

We miss two members of the new Stracchi's. Story is incomplete or doesn't add up. Are you still hiding stuff from us? :whip:

Also, Tran was protected by a single person last night. Unless we have a doctor with a seriuously twisted sense of humour in our midst, Tran is the new don then. Not a wiseguy like you persist in. And so he couldn't be night-killed by a townie vigilante group. A waste of town effort...at best.

Gah! When I infiltrated the Stracchi's, I managed to get them all and get their roles and kills correct.

*starts bandwagon on TinCow for 'infiltrating' the Stracchi's and lying about it too :smash: *


*********************

Why are the detective results that JimBob has incomplete!?

Go on, JB, tell those detectives to send you their full results. I notice that some self-professed detectives only share as litle as one-and-a half night's worth of investigations.

If they refuse to give them to you, I think we shall have to assume that they are made results, plus possibly some rehashed other results. If their results don't add up, are false or not in compliance with other results, tell us so that we may hang them. [conspiracy: see below under *]

**********************

About Craterus, why was he protected by a single person on n6? Luca or doctor? Does JimBob know the identity of this doctor? If all doctors are known to JimBob, then we can start checking for luca's.
And what of the other 'single person saves'. Sasaki, Proletariat.

*********************

Sigurd is not a don.

Don't mean he doesn't have to die, but he is not a don. This also doesn't mean that the FBI detective necessarily isn't what he claims to be, just that there are no FBI results on Sigurd.

And I still FoS all Dutch / Norwegian(?) players for the role of Don Corleone. Unless it was The Shadow (wolf) itself who called for the Don meeting.


*********************

Sorry Seamus, for quoting this, but I can't keep it to myself anymore. Proletariat gets attacked all the time because of this red text: 'your family must stubbornly waste its resources on clownish, doomed attacks on Prole every single night in order to create a vast army of ubersurgeons with which the town will make your mafia life miserable'.

Either that or maybe they keep attacking also because of misinformation campaigns about her defenders. I am not the only player who has leaked to have been the one protecting her. ~;)

*********************

Mafia dons can ask for 'favours', as I learned from Omanes. These favours consist of attacks on players they'd like dead. These favours are then performed by a profesional hitman, the 'card player'. Maybe, the only hits they can ask for is on shady, dubious characters with mafia involvement?

Attacks by the 'Playing Card' mafia hitman, presumably, Sigurd:

Woad & Fangs (N5) - dead: 'kill the rat'
Louis VI (N6) - dead: 'kill the traitor'
TinCow (N7) - 'kill the traitor'. Why did this one fail?? ~:confused:


**********************

The town has a mighty .577 wielding homicidal maniac as well, the greatest warrior in the game. :jumping:

This fierce and indomitable warrior hears…‘voices’ from his master in his head, which explains his 100% successful mafia kills, with Komm and W&F so far.

Kills:

Kommodus (n4)
Woad & Fangs (n5) – On this hit, the Playing Card Killer and the .577 Big Mighty Town Killer were a bit surprised that both picked the same target on the same night.

***********************


Italian Destiny group (Tataglia or Cunnio if Louis is correct about the Barzinis). Don: Unknown, Luca: Unknown, Made: Unknown, associated wise guys if any: unknown. Calling Card: an Italian phrase (destiny is inexorable). Victims: Kamikhaan (townie, N5), ajaxfetish (N6), Husar (N7).They only started attacking on N5. So either icecold Pro's or a new group.

Only killed townies thus far, people who were under no suspicion. Do they have a mole in the town organisation? Are they helping the town get rid of the remaining mafiosi from the other families, while meanwhile this family itself cleans up the town?
And, this I had noticed before, why don't any of those centrally organised townie protection groups ever manage a protection? None, in the whole entire game so far. Hmm...[/conspiracy theory]
[note: see above under *]

Also, “il destino è inesorabile" - that is proper Italian. Caius, the Italo-Argentine? Other Italians? Or is it simply a well-known phrase from some mafia movie (not really a big fan of those, so maybe it is simply a well-known phrase)

***********************

There is something fishy going on somewhere, and I still haven't gotten to the bottom of it. ~:mecry: ***********************


No post-mortem revelations. :deal:
:bomb:


:lipsrsealed2:

[Drisos]

Sigurd is lynched anyway... remember his story, and follow his leads if he appears to really have been a hitman when we hear his roll in three days.

[Crazed Rabbit]

I still think Sigurd's the don - his story has too many holes.

How would anyone find a norwegian IP, as he claims, if he wasn't at the Don meeting?

And again, what other Norwegian players are in the game?

He never posted a role PM, even part.

CR

[Louis VI the Fat]

I you want anything from me... admit that the FBI agent claim is false. Only then can I trust the information I got.Come on, we all know there is no FBI information on you by now. I still believe that there is a good chance the FBI agent is for real and sincerely wants to help the town by having you lynched ( it is a pro-town action by any standard), but there are no investigation results on you. Logic dictates this.

Now please, spill your guts and name your mafia contacts and stuff. :yes:

[TinCow]

When did you get the information that there was going to be an attack on me? Before, or after the attack? Why wasn't I informed?

Because I didn't know until it had already happened. I was slightly pissed about not being informed. Northnovas wasn't informed either, and it sparked something of a minor crisis for a moment within the Stracchi group.


Also, why have you been pushing for my lynch even after you had 'infiltrated' the Stracchi's? And why did you let the Strachi's kill innocents?

I did not let them kill anyone that I knew was innocent. I had no information whatsoever about Motep. I decided that it was worth the risk that he was a townie in order to keep getting information out of the Stracchi. Just as you thought it was worth risking Glenn's life to do whatever it is that you did on the night that you got him killed.

I actively encouraged the Stracchis to hit Craterus, because I believe he is a Don. I also actively encouraged them to hit Sasaki, because I've gotten bad vibes from him for a while now. However, I became a lot less clear about Sasaki recently, and for that reason he was specifically warned about that he was going to be hit on N7. Brave_Sir_Robin was never at risk, because I knew that the third person the Stracchi's were trying to get to help with that hit would not cooperate with them.

Regarding my votes to Lynch you, for understandable reasons, I did not trust you. Also, when I first called you out for getting Glenn killed, I was still working on the whole 6th Family plan. GH did not get killed until after that, so I was trying to direct attention to people other than him. The fact that all the information I provided on you was true simply made it a credible distraction at the time. For the record, I still don't trust you.


You, on the other hand, go around killing innocents, vote to have pro-town players lynched, use your big project Mayhem to misdirect protection groups to people you know aren't going to be attacked, and then rat out the Stracchi's when you are found out. :idea2:

You are free to hold that opinion. I admit I'm not an expert at mafia. This is my first game and perhaps I have made some blunders that more experienced people like you would not have. All I can do is say what I did and let you make up your own minds about it.


On n6 and n7 there were four attackers from this family. Dutch died yesterday, so he was probably the fourth on n6. But who was the fourth on n7? And who was the fifth one on n7? The one who didn't show up - that person with questionable parentage? You yourself?

The fourth person was scottishranger. Have fun lynching him. The fifth person I will not reveal, as he is pro-town. It was not me, as I was killing Northnovas. I felt I owed it to him to do him in personally, because he and I are friends from the KOTR PBM. That is why he died with a knife in the back. It was a specific request I made of Seamus.


Are you still hiding stuff from us? :whip:

Of course. I know things that I do not think should be public knowledge, just as you do.


Also, Tran was protected by a single person last night. Unless we have a doctor with a seriuously twisted sense of humour in our midst, Tran is the new don then. Not a wiseguy like you persist in. And so he couldn't be night-killed by a townie vigilante group. A waste of town effort...at best.

No, I think Tran survived by luck, just as I did and just as beefy did.


*starts bandwagon on TinCow for 'infiltrating' the Stracchi's and lying about it too :smash: *

Don't bother, I'm sure I'll be dead soon.


Why are the detective results that JimBob has incomplete!?

JimBob did not list every result he has because he wanted to get more evidence on some of them. He has the full lists from each of the people that reported info to him. Just because he chose to post select information from those lists does not make the lists themselves faulty.



About Craterus, why was he protected by a single person on n6? Luca or doctor? Does JimBob know the identity of this doctor?

I believe Craterus to be a Don. I have no idea about Doctors, because I do not know the identity of a single one.


And I still FoS all Dutch / Norwegian(?) players for the role of Don Corleone. Unless it was The Shadow (wolf) itself who called for the Don meeting.

I agree with this.

[Sigurd]

I still think Sigurd's the don - his story has too many holes.
How would anyone find a norwegian IP, as he claims, if he wasn't at the Don meeting?
And again, what other Norwegian players are in the game?
He never posted a role PM, even part.
CR
Someone claimed this for you... If the IP thing is not important or never happened, then it is irrelevant. Wouldn't you agree? The same claimed you are the one who claims to be the FBI agent. Is this wrong also?
And I don't have to reveal my pm... It won't save me and you will know in three days time anyway. Be prepared to dodge those votes coming your way...

Where is Jimbob anyway? I want to hear what he has to say.

[Haudegen]

Just one bit of input:

The IP might be a good hint, but I wouldn´t overrate it. There are plenty of tools available to fake IP´s.

[John86]

Vote:Abstain

Sigurd - 12 ( Kage, CR, shlin, sara, CA, JMonks, TP, TinCow, Warluster, Mak, Haudegen, Myrddraal)
Proletatriat - 2 (EMFM, Elite Ferret)
Tran - 3 (Little Grizzly, Prole, Sasaki)
TinCow - 1 (Sigurd)
Abstain - 3 ( Hiji, Ironside, Twilightblade)


edit fixed tally

[Proletariat]

Doesn't matter, but I voted for Tran, the Don who got a free walk this round.

[TinCow]

Tran cannot be a Don. He has been in on multiple Stracchi hits. The only way he could kill as a Don would be if he was the only person left in his family. If that were true, his hit on Brave_Sir_Robin would have succeeded.

[Louis VI the Fat]

I did not let them kill anyone that I knew was innocent. I had no information whatsoever about Motep. I decided that it was worth the risk that he was a townie in order to keep getting information out of the Stracchi. Just as you thought it was worth risking Glenn's life to do whatever it is that you did on the night that you got him killed.I had three townies protect Glenn that night. I was the one who asked them to protect Glenn. Way before everybody was buddy-buddy with Glenn and JimBob after Seamus write-up of Glenn's role.
Presently, I even wonder if it wasn't perhaps you after all, who did not send in his protection order for Glenn. Number four, 'X', only ever said that he could not find his protection order PM for Seamus in his outbox.
I mean, you do blatantly admit that you were already involved with setting up your mafia group on the night of Glenn's kill. Is this why you still persist, vehemently so, that I should be held responsible for Glenn's death, and not the three town players I got together for his protection? Scared to lose your connection to JimBob?


JimBob did not list every result he has because he wanted to get more evidence on some of them. He has the full lists from each of the people that reported info to him. I know. You may be surprised to learn that I know the full list too. And there are a lot of 'criminals' on it, have been for the past few days. You were JimBob's close and trusted partner, you had access to this list all the time. You were aware of people showing up criminal all throughout your five nights of 'infiltration' of the Stracchi's. Yet, you did not manage to persuade your mafia group to kill criminals one single time? It isn't that hard to do. I immediately ran with the 'criminal' results I got from my town contacts to the Stracchi's. We killed Drisos on n1, there was no telling what his role was. For N2 and N3, I made sure I got myself investigation results together to find criminals, and then urged the family to attack those, instead of innocents.

Plus, lest we forget, you also operated Project Mayhem, sending the town's protection groups around. Did it not ever cross your mind that you could perhaps use this to protect the people that your family was planning to hit? I say it looks like you deliberatly had the town groups protect the wrong people. Again, so many town protection groups, and not a single nighttime protection was managed. :no:

Really TinCow, for five nights you go on a killing spree, for five nights you have prime access on investigation results from four detectives, for five nights you are in command of this town's protection groups.
The result? One hit after the other on innocents, and not a single save. :no:

I think it is pretty clear what has happened.

[TinCow]

I know. You may be surprised to learn that I know the full list too. And there are a lot of 'criminals' on it, have been for the past few days. You were JimBob's close and trusted partner, you had access to this list all the time. You were aware of people showing up criminal all throughout your five nights of 'infiltration' of the Stracchi's. Yet, you did not manage to persuade your mafia group to kill criminals one single time?

I did not have access to the list until after night 5. On night 5, all I was able to do was direct them away from people I knew to be townies, not towards people I knew to be mafia, since I had no conclusive proof about anyone. On night 6, the decision to encourage them towards Craterus was a group decision, not my own. On night 7, the Stracchi got scared of the townies and I could not talk them out of attacking them. That is why we moved on the Stracchis on night 7. Perhaps I could have been more effective, I don't know. Again, this is my first mafia game. Sorry if I'm not performing at the level of a veteran.


Plus, lest we forget, you also operated Project Mayhem, sending the town's protection groups around. Did it not ever cross your mind that you could perhaps use this to protect the people that your family was planning to hit?

The only person this applies to is Motep. At the time that Motep was attacked, I had no information on what role he was at all. I had enough people for a vigilante group and two protection groups. The protection groups were targeted on people I knew to be pro-town and who seemed to me to be important to keep alive. If this is bad reasoning, I apologize for screwing it up. It seems I am now being accused of being bumbling and incompetent.


I say it looks like you deliberatly had the town groups protect the wrong people. Again, so many town protection groups, and not a single nighttime protection was managed. :no:

I have so far organized three protection groups. Two on Night 5 and one on Night 6. None of the people the were protecting were attacked. I guess I just chose poorly.


Really TinCow, for five nights you go on a killing spree, for five nights you have prime access on investigation results from four detectives, for five nights you are in command of this town's protection groups.
The result? One hit after the other on innocents, and not a single save. :no:

Totally wrong. I was working on the 6th Family thing through Night 4. I've only had 3 turns to work since switching sides. I've only had access to detective results for 2 turns. Does this change your opinion at all?

[Craterus]

Well, if voting's still open, I'll vote: TinCow. Little late in the game for silly retribution votes but Sigurd is a foregone conclusion anyway. Thanks for organising the hit, I think you should count yourself lucky it didn't succeed. And with this, I'll just say a little thank-you to whoever saved me (safe hands! ~;)).

Apologies for my inactivity over the last day or so.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

"A skeptical star
Of lost generations
A blistering fascination
With visible scars
If this is all that I am - an abstract illusion
I'll fade into nothing to become a foregone conclusion"
-- Seven Ways Out



Sunset, Day Eight


"Sigurd Fafnesbane, you are judged guilty and sentenced to death," intoned Director JimBob -- with just the faintest hint of relish in his voice. "You will be taken to the beach and there placed in a modified lifeboat for your execution and funeral."

Sigurd looked up quizzically, but made no other reply. His arguments all evening had fallen on deaf ears -- the conclusion had been reached before it had even begun. He went with the guards stoically and the comittee followed.

When they reached the beach, Sigurd was escorted to the lifeboat and chained to one of its thwarts. The boat had been modified with plywood and canvas to resemble, at least vaguely, a Viking longboat. It reeked of gasoline and was stacked with straw.

"In the boat you will find a pistol, disassembled, with one bullet," said Jimbob. "The boat will be towed out by the tug you see there offshore," JimBob waived to the tug which started to ease forward at his signal. "If you hurry, you'll have the chance to save yourself from the flames...so please, take your time."

JimBob put a match to some of the straw, which lit quickly. The boat went out 100 yards fairly quickly and then the tug held it in position. Sigurd was bent over, ignoring the heat and ever-closing flames, hurriedly assembling the pistol intended for his coup de grace. As the flames reached his position and he began to burn, Sigurd stood erect and shouted at the shore.

"I may burn in Hell, but at least one of you <<wind carries this word away>> is going with me!"

Sigurd aimed at the shore with his pistol, rocking on the burning boat, and --ignoring the agony of his now burning legs -- squeezed off his only round at the Committee, aiming for JimBob. He missed, of course. 100 yards is a long way for a pistol and his aim wasn't the steadiest. He did, however, shoot johnhughthom through the left eye, killing him instantly. Sigurd collapsed as the flames soared over him. Seconds later the lifeboat blew to fragments.

"I added a bit of dynamite for a spectacle," said JimBob. "Officers, if two of you would please remove our dead committeman here? The rest of you are free to go, but remember that our work will continue."

The committee filed away, and night came again to Fatlington.



OOC

1. Night 8 begins now, with PMs due by 1300 25 February 2008 (1800 GMT). My schedule tomorrow does not permit me to run a 24 hour block, sorry for the delay.

2. Specific voting tally posted later by edit. Sigurd is lynched and johnhughthom removed from play.

[PershsNhpios]

Congratulations on a brilliant conduction of affairs, JimBob!

This loose collection of trusted townsfolk working for the greater good is what I tried to create - right before Louis cut out my heart.

Anyway, if no one else will listen - this is a message to JB - seeing as I barely participate and do not PM anymore.
(Because Louis betrayed me.. Thank you Louis.)

JimBob - for the love of hay, pay close attention to Proletariat, who sweetly graces the thread here and avoids all criticism.

You will notice that GeneralHankerchief is the only player who bothers to attack and throw suspicions on her!

Please note also, that GH and Proletariat were STRICTLY attacking only each other even before GH was killed!

GH is proven innocent - Proletariat is as fitting the description of a Don as ANY PLAYER!

Note that Sasaki was defending Proletariat - saying there was no great reason why she should be suspected as a don.
When Sasaki attacked and bandwagoned against me for the same sole reason that Proletariat should be considered.


Please, JimBob, townsfolk, don't let the Mafia waltz over your heads this easily... !!!

[GeneralHankerchief]

Hate to break the news to you, Glenno, but I am in fact guilty as sin. Evidently you haven't read the last couple of pages that closely.

As for Prole, who knows?

[norwegian nerd]

Just to clear up about norwegian players. I am norwegian but since something about norwegians, texans, and oil brought my fathers work to the gulf of mexico, So I am a norwegian player on a USofA IP adress.

[Moros]

Grtz,
the man who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men.

[Andres]

It's quiet in Fatlington... Almost too quiet.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I still lack numerou PMs, so those still alive need to get in touch.

[Jubal_Barca]

Hi, sorry, stil alive, anyone needing vigging/doctoring/etc. help please contact me...

[Andres]

Hi, sorry, stil alive, anyone needing vigging/doctoring/etc. help please contact me...

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you, the new Don Stracci!

[Northnovas]

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you, the new Don Stracci!

Yes I do you a favour and one day I may ask for one in return. A little portection now and then a kill later. Doesn't look good.

[Louis VI the Fat]

NM.

[Louis VI the Fat]

It's generally not a good idea trying to get the hitman lynched.

He usually knows too much. You'd better leave him alone or he'll expose you all.

Just my :2cents:

I'm sure the intended recipients of this post understand very well what I'm trying to say here.That's interesting. At this point, only Kagemusha, Crazed Rabbit, Myrddraal and Shlin28 voted to have the hitman lynched yet.



I am not a Don, but I have worked for the mafia. I have been contacted several times by Capo II’s version of the Wolf. This wolf has put me in contact with the most powerful Dons. They are allowed to call in favours in the form of hits. I am the Hitman. I killed w&f, Louis and lastly tried to kill TinCow. They were all orders from the mafia Dons. My win conditions will be a result of how many points I am able to gain from these killings.

I was contacted last night by several of the dead Mafiosi who relayed messages from their Dons. Apparently CR infiltrated the Don meetings and by using his pro-account read IP addresses of the different posters. Apparently he found one belonging to BKKB which is the largest ISP in Hordaland. It is the state owned power company and the IP would have been the backbone address. Now… I suspect that CR relayed this information to Jimbob and posed as the FBI agent.
Am I correct?
Yes CR got through the pm checks and got into the meeting hiding as a Don. Apparently he didn’t fail any of the tests showing that he had his hands on a genuine Capo II Don Role pm. He didn’t even stumble on choosing one of the 5 names.

Back to the IP thing. A lot of Norwegians use this ISP and would have the same back bone address. I suspect there are other players from my part of the world in this game?

The point is… there were no FBI agent investigations… It is all a hoax and Jimbob, CR and Tincow are all in it together.
I suspect foul play and the town should take action and demand a proper explanation.

Musings about what I gather from yesterday's lynch scene:
Sigurd is not a don. He was a mafia hitman. The funny thing is, that Andres confirmed this at the beginning of the lynch, before there was a bandwagon on Sigurd, and before Sigurd himself revealed that he was the Hitman. Sigurd later said that several mafiosi knew of his role.
And they knew of the Shadow. This shadow was a Dutchman, is not in Seamus write-up yet, and he lived long enough to order last night's attack on TinCow. Andres' partner Dutch_Guy perhaps?

There is no FBI evidence on Sigurd, this was a blatant lie. Logic dictates this, Sigurd is right. :yes:

The question is, Whether it was a well-intended lie to ease Sigurd’s lynching or something far worse, I still don’t know yet. Pity Sigurd was bandwagoned so easily, without much questioning.

I repeat Sigurd’s words: can we have an explanation, please?


There is something fishy going on somewhere, but I can't figure it out yet. ~:mecry: