Sorceror 17er Game Thread

[katze]

I second not knowing.

Did you ever explain the townping on Montmorency?

it had to do with his first post talking about a mafia role, they said they thought as mafia that kind of discussion would go in wolfchat instead

[Cuthillius]

what does the bolded mean

i'm talking about the way you're playing with orientation to other people

there's a blurry line between "feels alone" and "would feel somewhat alone as a wolf slash not comfortable enough with partners that they still think/talk/act in a way that's somewhat separate from the rest of the group"

[Zack]

afaik we've never played together (you did mentor me in a game once tho) and you're someone i more know based off of reputation than anything

and i think ur pretty weaksauce so far, this post included
lol this post is 100% gonna rustle newcomb's jimmies, the classic "I've never played with you but based on reputation I'm underwhelmed" post

I would have been shocked if newcomb as a villa didn't take the first half of d1 fairly easy, fwiw. The posts he's made so far are either NAI or lightly towny imo (and the one you just quoted was actually pretty good iyam)

[Cuthillius]

Vote: Newcomb

~:smoking:

your sunglasses are sexy

[Sleep]

i have a second wolf read i will not be disclosing at this point in time

[Cuthillius]

lol this post is 100% gonna rustle newcomb's jimmies, the classic "I've never played with you but based on reputation I'm underwhelmed" post

I would have been shocked if newcomb as a villa didn't take the first half of d1 fairly easy, fwiw. The posts he's made so far are either NAI or lightly towny imo (and the one you just quoted was actually pretty good iyam)

ur pretty weaksauce so far too (based on a weirdly arbitrary view of your meta)

[Sunbae]

Zack, do I need to spend effort discussing specifics in response to that or is this just a "bad vibes but we'll see how it shakes out" thing?

[Cuthillius]

i think monstr might be in the category of people who approach mafia in a similar enough way to me as wolves in particular that i have a hard time actually figuring him out

i don't know who else is in that category off the top of my head but monstr is that's for sure

[Sleep]

ur pretty weaksauce so far too (based on a weirdly arbitrary view of your meta)

explain?

[Sunbae]

unrelated

i swore i'd never get peacock after nbc took office off netflix but we got it free/part of a package recently and man oh man, while i love gilmore girls as much as the next guy, its still really nice to have michael scott back in my bedroom on demand every night

I still haven't gotten peacock either. I canceled my netflix shortly after they took The Office away. I've been watching community and scrubs reruns on Prime Video while going to sleep lately. Sometimes hop on Disney+ to rewatch a pirates movie or something but I think I'm not gonna renew that one when it runs next month. There's just too many streaming services now :pensive:

[Zack]

just wanted to say on the topic of that wallpost thing though. It felt like an almost genuine attempt at doing something with the early posts while my wall was literally not at all :shrug:

people have callled this post wolfy and I want to reiterate that I actually found it pretty towny

I think a wolf would recognize that after the initial shade thrown on my joke-post and seeing my response to it, any further shade thrown on the post was (1) very clearly not going to get any traction (which it didn't) and (2) probably going to draw ire from others (which it did). There's really no purpose to a wolf making such a post? It does nothing and looks bad

it makes more sense to me as something Cape genuinely thought "you know what, actually no I DO think there was something here" even if I disagree with the reasoning entirely (it was in no way a genuine attempt at anything other than humor).

[katze]

I would have been shocked if newcomb as a villa didn't take the first half of d1 fairly easy, fwiw. The posts he's made so far are either NAI or lightly towny imo (and the one you just quoted was actually pretty good iyam)

im not closed to the idea of this (bolded) but as of right now i'm not going to ignore the pings i'm getting because "he might be a villager taking it easy" either so

if i think he's townier later in the day i will concede as such, if i do not then i'll continue expressing my distaste of his posts

the post quoted is ~fine~; i think it leans NAI personally - the "i think katze falls into a group of players" bit specifically is approximately true and isn't a revelation nor an evaluation of my alignment in the current game but i don't think in that context (me basically pushing him off of reputation) that criticism is AI

[Zack]

ur pretty weaksauce so far too (based on a weirdly arbitrary view of your meta)
idk what this means


Zack, do I need to spend effort discussing specifics in response to that or is this just a "bad vibes but we'll see how it shakes out" thing?

your call chief

(also it's nice to post in a game with a functional multi-quote system that isn't rage-inducing. MU :stare:)

[Sunbae]

Let me rephrase that. Are you attempting to talk to me about my alignment or is this a follow up to the conversation with Benneh?

[Sleep]

I still haven't gotten peacock either. I canceled my netflix shortly after they took The Office away. I've been watching community and scrubs reruns on Prime Video while going to sleep lately. Sometimes hop on Disney+ to rewatch a pirates movie or something but I think I'm not gonna renew that one when it runs next month. There's just too many streaming services now :pensive:

i just pirate everything, ez

[Sunbae]

:bullseye: better emotes
:bullseye: better multiquote function
:bullseye: chill games where people aren't mad at everyone by mid day 1 for daring to wolf read them


the org goat

[Sunbae]

i just pirate everything, ez

I thought I had left my life of piracy back when netflix and amazon prime video had basically everything but i might have to dust the ol hat off again now that its netflix/prime/disney/peacock/paramount/starz just to get started

[Zack]

Let me rephrase that. Are you attempting to talk to me about my alignment or is this a follow up to the conversation with Benneh?

the latter

I would not dare converse with you in anything other than the highest quality Spongebob gifs

https://i.imgur.com/6V4k9uj.gif

[Zack]

I thought I had left my life of piracy back when netflix and amazon prime video had basically everything but i might have to dust the ol hat off again now that its netflix/prime/disney/peacock/paramount/starz just to get started

:pirate: :pirate2::7pirate:

[Sleep]

:pirate: :pirate2::7pirate:

lock town

[Sunbae]

the latter

I would not dare converse with you in anything other than the highest quality Spongebob gifs

https://i.imgur.com/6V4k9uj.gif

LOL get em squiddy

I just know sometimes people don't like to talk to someone about their own alignment so wanted to double check

[hollowkatt]

i think monstr might be in the category of people who approach mafia in a similar enough way to me as wolves in particular that i have a hard time actually figuring him out

i don't know who else is in that category off the top of my head but monstr is that's for sure



Spicy take

I don't think anyone's been villagy

feels like spicy for the sake of spicy

I think this take applies to all their posts tbh

[Zack]

lock town

https://i.imgur.com/I8VIinC.gif

[Sunbae]

lock town

Yeah, I feel pretty good about a core of like Sleep, Zack, Hollowkatt as a starting point

[Sunbae]

I kinda feel like neb coming in while newcomb/ladd/zack have expressed concerns on me and initiating a discussion on it while calling me town is pretty towny but i'm trying really hard to cut out "reads based solely on how the player handles talking about me" cause it's the type of thing I can get turned around on pretty easily. Feels right still

[nebjiamn]

I kinda feel like neb coming in while newcomb/ladd/zack have expressed concerns on me and initiating a discussion on it while calling me town is pretty towny but i'm trying really hard to cut out "reads based solely on how the player handles talking about me" cause it's the type of thing I can get turned around on pretty easily. Feels right still
i'm just better than them

[ladd]

https://i.imgur.com/CiRyv8f.jpg

(hopefully this isnt strike 2)

[Newcomb]

I kinda feel like neb coming in while newcomb/ladd/zack have expressed concerns on me and initiating a discussion on it while calling me town is pretty towny but i'm trying really hard to cut out "reads based solely on how the player handles talking about me" cause it's the type of thing I can get turned around on pretty easily. Feels right still

have I really expressed concerns on you? like don't get me wrong I've felt them internally but I was trying to not pile on :v

[Cuthillius]

explain?

it's barely meaningful at best

i was repeating to zack what katze said to newc for effect

and any humor existing in the parenthetical is purely due to the range of ways it could be read by whoever's reading it

[Newcomb]

I don't.... *think" zack is buddying me? I can't really come up with a mental map of what I think is the counterexample of how he'd play it as a wolf beyond "different than this" and that bothers me a little but not enough to really do anything about it.

Semi-mostly unrelated I think right now ladd has about the closest game perspective to mine.

[nebjiamn]

https://i.imgur.com/CiRyv8f.jpg

(hopefully this isnt strike 2)
understandable. he's funnier and cuter and his gif-game is strong

[Cape90]

okay, so, a lot of cape's early posting can be summed up as "doesn't get jokes". now, not getting jokes isn't inherently wolfy. but take note of the verbiage here - "a little odd". not only is it hedgy it stops short of actually making a call on my alignment - "odd" does not equate to "wolfy", townies can be "odd". it's a little thing but often wolves tend to avoid directly actually calling anything wolfy.

additionally he says katze's response seems "justified" - what parts of that post seem justified? it's...an obvious joke about voting "sleep" to take a nap. it's messing around, there's

again, not getting a joke is not a crime in and of itself but it doesn't seem to me like he's actually reading what is being said in a critical way

I know I put this section amongst some actual reads that were serious. But this was mostly me messing around, it should have been obvious by the katze part I wrote.


now, running back in time 5 seconds, we have another instance of cape not getting a fairly obvious joke

the problem here is he's only responding to this post with a cookie-cutter, broad brushstroke argument - "busywork". what parts of that post seem like busywork? we don't know, because cape doesn't respond to any of the content within. to me this looks like he's making reads based on form rather than content, which is again wolfy because it's a sign that he's not actually reading the game critically - if he had actually tried to engage with any of the "points" zack made in that post i'd be willing to give credit for being tryhardy even if he missed an obvious joke. but as it is, it doesn't look like he actually tried to meaningfully evaluate the stuff zack was saying, because I think if anyone puts more than two seconds of thought into reading his words they'd say "oh, this is an obvious joke".

as it is, it looks like he saw that it looked like a post by post analysis list and decided to call it busy work and shade it. he didn't stop to actually read it.

Nice assumption nerd.

I thought that some of the takes in the post could have been real like


14: this question isn't solving the game

And trust me, I do feel dumb for not fully getting that it was just a joke, it was just lame enough to where I took the bait for granted. Sue me.


"i don't see it" in response to an early wolfread push. not inherently bad in and of itself, but it is the kind of thing wolves frequently say in the earlygame - being dismissive of early wolfreads is an easy way to fake content, because all they have to do is disagree with people. wolves rarely are the type to lead a charge on someone so they'll often hold back when someone makes a stretchy case in the early game

i can sense some people probably rolling their eyes at this, and that's fine, it's a very minor point but i still wanted to discuss it because it pinged me. like i said, by itself this isn't a strong point at all because it can easily be said by a villager, but within the body of work i find it problematic.

Good job on your nothing read on me, I am proud of you, you graduated to my level of reads!


says nothing, does nothing.

Okay so I was going page by page, and I was kinda struggling to do that on page 2 of the game :p. The evidence for that was the post I made saying


I have no idea what to think about EnderWiggin's whole take on the nebjiamn content thing.

which only establishes that I just found the post weird.


what, exactly, is there to like about this post? it's kind of generically agreeable in that it makes a point about how to play the game, and I agree that some forward momentum is preferable to a tepid, stagnant game, but it doesn't actually give me feelings on newcomb's alignment one way or the other. and again the verbiage of "in a sort of random way" is another statement that doesn't really do anything except to soften the read that follows.


I'm down to meme as much as the next guy but 48 hour phases are pretty quick especially when a game's this frontloaded.

Like don't get me wrong I'm down for a casual non wallposty game but... there's a thin line between that and tepid, I guess is my feeling.

1. Top line felt towny in the portion of the post that I just quoted in terms of Newcomb felt towny

2. The ending words of the post I bolded submitted my feelings on the post feeling like it came from town versus otherwise.




first point, he "doesn't like" a read. but does it mean anything for ladds alignment? he doesn't bother to say. it's easy to agree or disagree with things other people say, but what is harder is to generate your own analysis and thoughts. and what we have is that he is "sort of villagery" (again, more soft language) for "actually the same reasons", which...doesn't make sense at all? it doesn't actually meaningfully address the points ladd is making. why is he villagery for mostly responding to things or "posting just to post"? it's a totally half-baked response, there's nothing in cape's posts that gives a real indicator of why he thinks ender is villagery.

It really just is as simple as I was thinking that Ender is town for the same reasons that ladd has been suspecting Ender. You act like my read HAS to be deeper then that when it really is not. There is nothing to really indicate since there wasn't a specific moment or post that struck me as towny from Ender, just general play.

Gotta love semantics reads, those always work out. For the record, I type out how I normally talk and that is with what you would consider "hedgy" language. Sue me, I am literally socially awkward.


This is a very pedantic sort of dismissal to ender that doesn't really engage with the substance of the argument being made at all. "you said he was putting it forward as if it was a deep read, but it was on one post so it can't be deep at all". which, okay, but he very clearly meant it as a serious read, and cape selectively cuts off the latter parts of his post where ender gets into the more elaborate parts of his thinking about how wolves sometimes try to get too serious too early and hard switch. it doesnt look like hes meaningfully evaluating or considering enders words, just blandly dismissing a point he feels is eay to shoot down. this looks like cape isnt actually trying to read neb or ender. it kind of feeds back into what i said earlier about wolves tending to spend a lot of time in the early game shooting down reads rather than trying to solve.

(fwiw, i did like nebjiamn trying to make a serious accusation early there, and i think the antsiness to move the game forward and disappointment at being engaged with is towny. i didnt really want to respond to the read at the time though because th read itself felt stretchy and it would be more useful to see how the person being accused responds to it rather than saying anything myself. i think dobbys response to it is fine for now. i dont agree with enders take that it could be a wolf play although i understand the reasoning)

Funny how in the bolded, Benneh literally denied this read as deep. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828389&viewfull=1#post2053828389) I know the read had purpose and was the closest thing to a real read in that portion of the game, but that's different.

Oh no I left out parts of a post that I found irrelevant? Oh no! I find the rest of the post to be both NAI and looking a little too deep into the motives of Benneh there.


this is maybe the most egregious instance of cape's hedgy verbiage - why qualify the read in this way? how can something almost look really wolfy?i can find it understandable only finding something slightly suspicious in the early game, but this just comes across like he's afraid to throw a punch. reads very unnatural. either it's really wolfy or it isn't.

that is to say nothing of how again this is an egregious misreading of katze's post - if he was actually paying attention he'd have noticed the second line talks about a "pasta" and i assume cape is at least familiar enough with the concept of "copypasta" to know what that means.

and again not getting smeone's inside joke is not a crime, but what this again demonstrates is that cape is not really reading posts critically, but selectively, picking and choosing things to comment on. he picks out the first and last lines to attack while missing the part that tells him the bottom part of the post is fake and therefore irrelevant.

1. I used the word "almost" very deliberately as it felt like it could have maybe come from an aggressive townie, however, it really did not feel like katze at all, like if anyone else said this, I might have not batted too much of an eye, but I am not sure.

2. It makes sense it was a copypasta. And I was dumb and missed the part where katze even said "pasta", that flew right over my eyes, probably because it was fking midnight.




again with the verbiage heavy on qualifiers, cape can hardly make a read without distancing himself from it


I have no idea what you are saying here with qualifiers.

[ladd]

I'll definitely grant you "posting just to post" although I can't say Ender's posts really gave me that vibe strongly, but what in your experience makes the post timing thing - answering the last post then going back to answer something from before- a wolf thing?

Doing a mental parse of my own games it kind of feels more like something I'd tend to do more as a villager - like, if you're actually in the moment and invested in a conversation you get a bit disorganized and out of order. Not that that's what happened here since it's not like there was a riveting conversation going on. More interested in the theory I guess, tangential.

i applied it more to turbos/mashes than normal games (and I also noticed it first in my own wolf games iirc)

sometimes as a wolf you see a post where you feel like you either 1) have to answer to or 2) have a smart answer to but to look like you didnt just pop in to answer that post you then also latch onto a random other post that happened before



i do think ender reaction to zack/mine (but especially zack really) push is the wolfiest thing in an overall p villagery thread


newcomb seems an obvious villager imo

[Cape90]

with all of that said

welcome to towncore sleep

[Cape90]

I've skimmed ahead enough to know that people jump on this so I probably don't need to do anything here I'd imagine? I'll just hold all cape thoughts until I fully catch up.

What's cape's overall experience level?

Almost a year

But I am literally a mad scientist when it comes to mafia. People think I am good because I made it to semis, oh how foolish

[ladd]

Semi-mostly unrelated I think right now ladd has about the closest game perspective to mine.

25400

[Cape90]

yeah no problem.

My OG vote on Katze was 100% a shitpost vote.
People started piling onto katze tho and that felt weird to me. Like if they're a wolf then it's great, but if they're town a runaway wagon on them to start the game seems like a good opportunity for a wolf or two to get on and try to hang there for a chop today.
That's the basis for the v read there, basically that too many people were like "hmm yes katze is a good vote at this stage of the game".
I subscribe to the theory that early game wagons have lasting impact on the rest of the game through a kind of communal thread memory and that an early game wagon like that on a villager is one way to put a potential strong village player into the POE to make them either post out of it or allow for "bad votes" later in the game by calling back to it.

People say they like this post?

[nebjiamn]

People say they like this post?
i like the post before it a bit more

this one is OK

[Cape90]

ehh, how often do you see a wolf who notices their teammate made a wolfy post, notices no one calling it out, and then makes it a point to draw attention to the post but also not push on it? it's really written in a way where he's positioned to get credit off a motnmorency w flip. not saying its impossible, but i dont really see it

but im also just not going to get deep into worldbuiding on day 1, too many conditionals and the whole thing falls apart if ur wrong on one person

If I was trying to get cred off a Motnmorency w flip, why would I literally contradict myself in saying the mech talk wasn't wolfy but I expected other people to point it out and call it wolfy?

You clearly misunderstood what I wrote there.

[Sleep]

it's barely meaningful at best

i was repeating to zack what katze said to newc for effect

and any humor existing in the parenthetical is purely due to the range of ways it could be read by whoever's reading it

oh i thought you'd have something spicy

[Cape90]

i think monstr might be in the category of people who approach mafia in a similar enough way to me as wolves in particular that i have a hard time actually figuring him out

i don't know who else is in that category off the top of my head but monstr is that's for sure

that explains the bubbling scumread I had on both of you. Thanks for telling me you two aren't w/w

[Sleep]

If I was trying to get cred off a Motnmorency w flip, why would I literally contradict myself in saying the mech talk wasn't wolfy but I expected other people to point it out and call it wolfy?

You clearly misunderstood what I wrote there.

that is the exact point of what i am saying there

[Csargo]

Wanted to say on the subject of that post #90, it's probably NAI for me and I would make the post as either alignment

carry on :book2:

It's probably true, but it's locked in my brain as a wolfy behavior for various reasons. I'm just grasping at straws at this point, because D1's are hard.

[Zack]

i applied it more to turbos/mashes than normal games (and I also noticed it first in my own wolf games iirc)

sometimes as a wolf you see a post where you feel like you either 1) have to answer to or 2) have a smart answer to but to look like you didnt just pop in to answer that post you then also latch onto a random other post that happened before



i do think ender reaction to zack/mine (but especially zack really) push is the wolfiest thing in an overall p villagery thread


newcomb seems an obvious villager imo

what's your read on cape?

:square:

[Cuthillius]

that explains the bubbling scumread I had on both of you. Thanks for telling me you two aren't w/w

i do agree that monstr/i have a lot of partner equity e t c

[Cape90]

i like the post before it a bit more

this one is OK

I really don't like that HK post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828396&viewfull=1#post2053828396), EXCEPT for the No Chop thing, like that felt towny to me, but the whole forced content thing, I think the read is a little weak sauce. I kinda been treating this game like a light game so that I don't spam the thread with posts, especially since there is only 30 posts per page, I feel like that just encourages more words/things said per post versus spam posting. :shrug:

[Sunbae]

vote: katze

[ladd]

to pile onto sunbae:

- I too didnt buy the first post (in fact i was the first to call it out!)

- i think his second string of posting was pretty flat, the focus on cape was wolfy imo

- i get being openminded/not having strong opinions but i think he is taking it too far where it circles back to being done just to look villagery (and i am 99% sure its a strategy i have seen him use as a wolf in either s3 sf or the wildcard), esp when I feel like there is plenty to talk about (in his defense he seems to be picking it up now)

- he gave me a strike



what's your read on cape?

:square:

his explanation for the joke thing makes perfect sens eimo - he clearly thought it was a serious post at first and then when he realized it was a joke he backed off

for the rest of his posting, i am inclined to agree with you. he seems more like a villager who is posting whatever is on his mind and getting in trouble for it than a wolf

expect i dont really villa read him as strongly as you (seem to)

[Sunbae]

Unvote: Katze

eh that didnt feel right

[Sunbae]

You are all making it very difficult to refrain from talking about myself

[Sunbae]

Vote: Monstrbro

[ladd]

katze treatement of newcomb this game is pretty much a carbon copy of how he treated me as v/v in the poisoner invitational 21er afair

except he gave me d1 freepass (and i did get n1ed)


and i dont really think they'd play like this as a wolf

[Zack]

alright ladd, lettuce mason :smitten:

sunbae you can talk about yourself if you want lol

[Sunbae]

I'm hoping that if I said 0-1 in [Sleep, Zack, HK, Neb, Newc, Cuth] I'd be correct

[ladd]

You are all making it very difficult to refrain from talking about myself

we are preparing you for champs (regardless of your alignment)

actually visor organized this game just for this reason, we all in it

get ready for dat sweet CHS

[ladd]

I'm hoping that if I said 0-1 in [Sleep, Zack, HK, Neb, Newc, Cuth] I'd be correct

why cuth?

[Sunbae]

I don't think I would mason with Ladd this game, Zack. At least not yet.

[Sunbae]

why cuth?

Because I don't think Cuth/Monstr work together

[Cuthillius]

i'm very comfortable with calling cape strong v at this point and just making sure to look back in a day or two

[ladd]

I don't think I would mason with Ladd this game, Zack. At least not yet.

25401

[ladd]

i give up on making gifs, i have tried all the options


Because I don't think Cuth/Monstr work together

alrighty, why do you feel that strongly about monstr being a wolf?

[Sunbae]

25401

There's a distinct difference in the way you've piled on vs the way Zack, Benneh, and Newcomb have handled it and i'm trying to warn a town read of mine that I think he's getting pocketed.

[Sunbae]

i give up on making gifs, i have tried all the options



alrighty, why do you feel that strongly about monstr being a wolf?

I don't. No, those are not contradictory statements.

[Sunbae]

i'm very comfortable with calling cape strong v at this point and just making sure to look back in a day or two

hm, ok.

[ladd]

There's a distinct difference in the way you've piled on vs the way Zack, Benneh, and Newcomb have handled it and i'm trying to warn a town read of mine that I think he's getting pocketed.

the gif said "fair enough", it just didnt load

[Sunbae]

the gif said "fair enough", it just didnt load

ahhh, gotcha.

So click the "insert image" on the bar, click "from url", paste the link, and uncheck mark the reference locally box and it should work

[ladd]

I don't. No, those are not contradictory statements.

then i don't get it

can you explain it to me?

[ladd]

ahhh, gotcha.

So click the "insert image" on the bar, click "from url", paste the link, and uncheck mark the reference locally box and it should work

https://media.giphy.com/media/KbquixFHmd65q1g0CB/giphy.gif

oh nice thanks

[Sunbae]

then i don't get it

can you explain it to me?

I guess, gimmie a min

[Montmorency]

Cool, 175 posts in 4 hours. I'll blind- Vote: Monstrbro for that.

[ladd]

i will prob be around even less tomorrow

villas

newcomb
zack

benneh

katze
sleep
HK
mont
ladd
cape

:clown:

[nebjiamn]

I really don't like that HK post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828396&viewfull=1#post2053828396), EXCEPT for the No Chop thing, like that felt towny to me, but the whole forced content thing, I think the read is a little weak sauce. I kinda been treating this game like a light game so that I don't spam the thread with posts, especially since there is only 30 posts per page, I feel like that just encourages more words/things said per post versus spam posting. :shrug:
maybe i'm a sucker, but that didn't feel forced at all to me. i asked for a live lookin on his process and he answered, like, absurdly quickly, and to get such a detailed insight into how HK was reading the game/ender felt very very transparent. part of this is a timing read that I don't think you can catch on re-read, but it really wasl ike a 2-4 minute turnaround from me posting (inb4 its 30 irl minutes) and HK responding there

i think the underlying part here is that HK has/had a process in evaluating ender and even if it wasn't something i found convincing or truly AI for ender, it toold me more about HK which is what i wanted anyway

[ladd]

I guess, gimmie a min

:rtwyes:

i am going to sleep so no hurry

[Sleep]

i read over capes response to my wallpost and i really dont like it

[nebjiamn]

kinda giggled when sunbae didn't put me as one of his villagers but a buncha people that were wolf reading him cause i juxtaposed that against newcomb's post about having a soft spot for those who push him

also kinda hurt in my heart

[Newcomb]

katze treatement of newcomb this game is pretty much a carbon copy of how he treated me as v/v in the poisoner invitational 21er afair

except he gave me d1 freepass (and i did get n1ed)


and i dont really think they'd play like this as a wolf

are you saying you're not gonna n1 me?

annoying. I can get deeper into your pocket if it would help

[Cuthillius]

I'm hoping that if I said 0-1 in [Sleep, Zack, HK, Neb, Newc, Cuth] I'd be correct

benneh are you talking about not this list?

[nebjiamn]

benneh are you talking about not this list?
yes

and now i see myself

needless to say i don't normally identify as neb lol

[Zack]

sleep, what are your top 3 takes that have nothing to do with cape?

i am really confused at why sunbae townread cuth for not being w/w with monstr when he apparently doesn't wolfread monstr very strongly? :dizzy2:

it was 14 minutes benneh :curtain: (though i agree HK is villagy)

Vote: Montmorency

:coffeenews:

[Winston Hughes]

Vote: Montmorency

:yes:

[Csargo]

Vote:Winston Hughes

:pimp:

[Winston Hughes]

Vote:Winston Hughes

:pimp:

:quiet:

[Cuthillius]

i'm not sure what to make of the more mu crowd towncoring together and then org people lightly infighting

i probably shouldn't be as surprised as i am

[katze]

newcomb seems an obvious villager imo

ladd: can you expand on this some, since i evidently don't agree? i am well aware that you are more experienced with newcomb than i am

was going to ask what you thought this meant for me given our strong difference here but you address this in the next page so weh

Sleep: do i know you? y/n is enough, you feel vaguely familiar

[Sunbae]

I've decided to remove Cuth for now cause once I started writing it out I realized my brain was jumping around too much and missed a step or two along the way

[katze]

sap cuth n' sunbae

[Sunbae]

sap cuth n' sunbae

Hi, kinda feel like ive posted too much already so I'ma go head out til the overnight.

[Winston Hughes]

:angel::angel:

hk, sunbae


:angel:

sleep, newcomb


:beatnik2:
cuth, csar, dobby, rask


:pimp2:

benneh, ladd, katze, monstr


:pimp2::pimp2:

cape, blade, monty


:pimp2::pimp2::pimp2::pimp2::pimp2:

zack

[Csargo]

:quiet:

:deal:

Vote:Montmorency

[Zack]

:cool3:
zack

:2thumbsup: (villagy enough for d1)
newcomb
katze
cape
hollowkatt

:rtwyes: (slightly above null)
benneh
cuth
ladd
sleep

:hide: (null)
csargo
winston
rask

~:handball: (mostly not here but also didnt particularly care for their posts, slightly below null)
dobby
monstr

:boxedin: (sorry bronana)
sunbae

:damnmate:
ender/bladescape
monty

[hollowkatt]

People say they like this post?

instead of throwing shade you could maybe I dunno try articulating things? that'd be cool.

[EnderWiggin]

Suddenly there are pages.

[Newcomb]

Cape seems more like mischop bait to me than a wolf :shrug:

I guess the massive wall is hypothetically villagy but it seems so unnecessary to go in that hard in so much detail this early

Is it specifically villagery though

[hollowkatt]

vote: monster

some time tonight I'm gonna put together a reads list. I think monster belongs at the bottom of it.

[EnderWiggin]

y r ppl townreading cape? i think hes the wolfiest poster so far, by a lot

Because last time I entered a game and had a visceral bad reaction to Cape's posts and called him wolf all game he flipped green so I'm trying something new =P

[hollowkatt]

Suddenly there are pages.

Hi Ender are you town?

[Zack]

Is it specifically villagery though

it didn't really move the needle for me, no

[Zack]

:cool3:
zack

:2thumbsup: (villagy enough for d1)
newcomb
katze
cape
hollowkatt

:rtwyes: (slightly above null)
benneh
cuth
ladd
sleep

:hide: (null)
csargo
winston
rask

~:handball: (mostly not here but also didnt particularly care for their posts, slightly below null)
dobby
monstr

:boxedin: (sorry bronana)
sunbae

:damnmate:
ender/bladescape
monty

order within the tiers is just the order from the playerlist in the OP, fwiw, it doesn't mean anything

[katze]

Hi, kinda feel like ive posted too much already so I'ma go head out til the overnight.

thats a shame, cya in wolf chat tho

i dont think you ever explained that cuth/monstr read btw


Newcomb: if i'm not mistaken, you have a bit of a policy to not interact with people you wolfread, right? i'm assuming thats why you're kinda talking around me atp

if that's the case then i would prefer you not do that, at least for a bit?

i don't reallllly think your scumread on me is in good faith, but regardless of that i feel like more and more people who know you better than i know you are calling you a villager, some with a decent bit of confidence, and if they're right i feel like it'd be better for both of us to find some common ground

[Winston Hughes]

:cool3:
zack

:2thumbsup: (villagy enough for d1)
newcomb
katze
cape
hollowkatt

:rtwyes: (slightly above null)
benneh
cuth
ladd
sleep

:hide: (null)
csargo
winston
rask

~:handball: (mostly not here but also didnt particularly care for their posts, slightly below null)
dobby
monstr

:boxedin: (sorry bronana)
sunbae

:damnmate:
ender/bladescape
monty

:Zzzz:

[EnderWiggin]

i don't really see the stuff ladd is saying about ender as wolfy, but i might need to re-read his guide to villaging. i do think ladd's choice of words that he was going to "help" me are interesting in italics.

there are two things that ping me re: ender

1) him claiming my post on dobby was presented as a deep read. i don't really see how someone can come to that conclusion? it was served up as a way to get people out of copypasta mode (slight mission accomplished!) more than anything else. the thoughts themselves are real but when someone suggests deep read its definitely going to be more than just tonal/filler accusations against a 1-poster.

i'm tempering 1 a bit because i don't think i can be the best judge of how my post re: dobby came across since i'm aware of the intent behind it. plus, ladd said i needed help, maybe i appeared to be struggling, lol. i also think ender's Wendy's reply kind of fits with his thinking that it appeared as a deep read.

2) "so I literally can't care enough to tell everyone why that could be a wolf play." this line/snippet from just pings me from a different mindset. why the default to explaining why it can't be a wolf play vs can't be a village play or just NAI? for clarity, this is not a deep read :) but it does ping me as a weird way to hedge the end of that post after saying you appreciated me starting the game off with a watery weak read.

After sleeping over it, I realised I may have over-reacted.

So I kinda had a kneejerk reaction to your initial post which was probably not reading it how it should've been read. You were just the unfortunate person who put on slightly serious looking pants while I was wearing clown shoes still

[Zack]

:Zzzz:

:pimp2::pimp2::pimp2:

[EnderWiggin]

Hi Ender are you town?

Yes.

[EnderWiggin]

what if... vote: no chop

I just want it said I don't like this post.

[Winston Hughes]

:pimp2::pimp2::pimp2:

:dunce:

[EnderWiggin]

Yeah I can. He feels stilted, like his content is forced, and that he's struggling to get into the groove of the game.
I tend to ego solve and compare what people are doing to what I'd be doing in their positions. This would tangentially apply to cape as well tbh:
If I were a wolf in this player list I'd be extremely concerned with making the towniest posts I could make and trying to fit in with the overall flow of the game so as not to get caught out immediately. Unfortunately when I do that I tend to be really obvs a wolf as I'm basically trying too hard. Ender (and Cape) feel like they're trying too hard.

The downside to ego solving is that other people are not me (I know, this is a shocking revelation) and don't necessarily react to things the same way I would. This isn't stopping me from making the read.



And before someone asks, my "no chop" vote is totally legit. This is a player list I am going to struggle to read and seeing who dies over night if we don't chop anyone might help in solving. Otherwise I'm likely going to just sheep someone I town read that I perceive is smarter than I am, or be on some weird vanity wagon at the end of the day.
So I figured I'd throw out not chopping as an option, see what people think of that, and go from there.

and yeah I'm being serious

I'm going to point out that last time I was actually wolf with you (Hello remember when I literally cased you and got you voted out and I was red?) I was townread and no one thought I was struggling to get into thread.

This honestly feels a VERY weird take on me given that the game I'm talking about was the last time HK and I played together. For him to seriously believe I would struggle to get my groove on as wolf is...

Kinda honestly wolfy.

[Winston Hughes]

why are benneh and ladd above null?

[EnderWiggin]

thanks

i didn't really like your post calling out katze as v for thin reasons and then shrugging the vote onto ender without explanation so i wanted to see where you were on him.

ender doesn't strike me as someone to be worried about wolfing in this playerlist but i've only played with them one other meaningful time that i can remember and they were a villager. still, just vibes, i don't know that i agree with the basis of the read although i do appreciate your process

There are very few people that I see in a player list and get scared of. And those that do just make me want to do better because I love to play around strong town as wolf.

Great example:
I once left Pizza alive all game as wolf to see if I could fool him til the end. (I couldn't, he caught me near lylo, but it was fun as hell.)

[Zack]

why are benneh and ladd above null?

:shrug:

[EnderWiggin]

why are benneh and ladd above null?

I'm gonna say Benneh's thought process feels real to me on re-read and I think he should be above null into town.

[Winston Hughes]

:shrug:

:bow:

[Cuthillius]

:rtwyes: (slightly above null)
cuth

we LOVE to SEE IT

[EnderWiggin]

Wolfiest of the first few posters :sparkleshrug:

Honestly feels kinda a weird take when you're pushing a wagon that was entirely (I think?) a meme to actually be in contention.

[katze]

I'm going to point out that last time I was actually wolf with you (Hello remember when I literally cased you and got you voted out and I was red?) I was townread and no one thought I was struggling to get into thread.

This honestly feels a VERY weird take on me given that the game I'm talking about was the last time HK and I played together. For him to seriously believe I would struggle to get my groove on as wolf is...

Kinda honestly wolfy.

link the game

[EnderWiggin]

do you have a read on me/zack's push on you?

you seem to care more to argue the argument than to sort if we are wolves pushing you iyam

Zack I don't remember well enough, but I don't think it's super AI for him. So I'm just pending more stuff from him.

You? Honestly, I disliked the read. I'll get back to you on my stances once I finish catching up.

[EnderWiggin]

link the game

Are we really playing this seriously?

It's the most recent pirate game on MafiaCafe. Finished like last week or something.

[nebjiamn]

dont link the game

katze dont be a nerd

[katze]

Are we really playing this seriously?

It's the most recent pirate game on MafiaCafe. Finished like last week or something.

well my first impression was that you were being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian so i'm calling the bluff

now how do i iso on maf cafe :dizzy2:

[katze]

dont link the game

katze dont be a nerd

aret aret

[Winston Hughes]

I'm gonna say Benneh's thought process feels real to me on re-read and I think he should be above null into town.

i'm not seeing it

there's nothing that looks fake, but there's also nothing that couldn't be faked

[EnderWiggin]

Sleep

Do I know you? Because I think I might know you.

[EnderWiggin]

i'm not seeing it

there's nothing that looks fake, but there's also nothing that couldn't be faked

Mostly just like, the consideration given to my reaction to him.

Maybe I'm weighting that higher than I should, but I feel like wolves wouldn't have the nuance of trying to parse out my reaction.

[EnderWiggin]

not really a fan of monsters posts so far

:rtwno:

Hey look, Zack and I agree on something.

[EnderWiggin]

well my first impression was that you were being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian so i'm calling the bluff

now how do i iso on maf cafe :dizzy2:

I'm ngl I will enjoy you suffering through that interface :3

[EnderWiggin]

now, although this post is taking issue with enders post in a similar way to cape, it goes a couple layers deeper in picking it apart and actually tries to assign a motive to it. it also makes sense for him to be a bit on edge since he's the one being talked about and presumably feels enders characterization of his post is unfair.

personally, i *see* what this is saying but im not *sure* its wolf-indicative for ender, necessarily

however, i like the process here and think nebjiamn (can i just call u ben?) is p. towny

Winston

This is a response to Ben's response that I liked. And seeing the same things as me.

(I want to say mindmeld but I'm going to not give Sleep the towny points for reasons.tm.)

[katze]

booo you need an account to iso on maf cafe

whatever ill just wait for HK to address that

[EnderWiggin]

I didn't get that impression that he was putting it forward as something super deep or meaningful. I thought the lampshading that he was starting the game implied that he knew it wasn't.

After coming back to it, you may be right.

As I said earlier, I think I just kneejerk reacted to the first post ruining my happy fun meme time.

[EnderWiggin]

i still think almost every post newcomb posts is wolfy

I've had some thoughts that direction, talk to me about why?

[hollowkatt]

Yes.

I don't believe you

[Sleep]

sleep, what are your top 3 takes that have nothing to do with cape?

ive been holding onto a pocket wolfread of cuthilius for a minute. its not something i can drop a big wall on like with cape just mainly a gut feeling from his posts so far

for town i like ben/hollow probably the most but there are a bunch of ppl floating in the big nebulous pile of "fine" that i havent bothered to examine more closely yet

[EnderWiggin]

I don't believe you

Well shucks.

[hollowkatt]

I'm going to point out that last time I was actually wolf with you (Hello remember when I literally cased you and got you voted out and I was red?) I was townread and no one thought I was struggling to get into thread.

This honestly feels a VERY weird take on me given that the game I'm talking about was the last time HK and I played together. For him to seriously believe I would struggle to get my groove on as wolf is...

Kinda honestly wolfy.

ok, so what gives then? Why does it seem like this game is harder to get into for you?
If you're villager shitposting and tossing off ideas should be fairly straightforward.

The unspoken part of that read I made on you is that this player list is vastly different than that player list and I also did say I was ego solving there and I would struggle as wolf to get established in this list.

You dumpstered me last game, hard, and of course I'm going to be wary of you in this game because of that.

Go be town and do townie things and I'll call you town. Till then I won't.

[hollowkatt]

link the game

it's the pirate game on mafiacafe

[hollowkatt]

Well shucks.

ikr, soz.

outside of me who else do you think is sus? maybe we can talk and I'll change my mind.

[Sleep]

Sleep: do i know you? y/n is enough, you feel vaguely familiar


Sleep

Do I know you? Because I think I might know you.
for game integrity reasons i dont wanna drop hints about my identity (i feel like its...unfair to hint at stuff while a game is in progress and potentially get v read for it when ppl didnt know me to start)


ill just say i was invited here by visor (obviously), ive played on MU, and ive been playing this game half-imitating the style of someone none of you lot know. hopefully that will be enough.

[Cuthillius]

ive been holding onto a pocket wolfread of cuthilius for a minute. its not something i can drop a big wall on like with cape just mainly a gut feeling from his posts so far

for town i like ben/hollow probably the most but there are a bunch of ppl floating in the big nebulous pile of "fine" that i havent bothered to examine more closely yet

wall hype

[Cuthillius]

i should probably read your posts more attentively

[EnderWiggin]

ok, so what gives then? Why does it seem like this game is harder to get into for you?
If you're villager shitposting and tossing off ideas should be fairly straightforward.

The unspoken part of that read I made on you is that this player list is vastly different than that player list and I also did say I was ego solving there and I would struggle as wolf to get established in this list.

You dumpstered me last game, hard, and of course I'm going to be wary of you in this game because of that.

Go be town and do townie things and I'll call you town. Till then I won't.

I was having fun memeing at the start so unless you're talking about the sharp gear change on ben idk what you're talking about harder to get into.

[Newcomb]

thats a shame, cya in wolf chat tho

i dont think you ever explained that cuth/monstr read btw


Newcomb: if i'm not mistaken, you have a bit of a policy to not interact with people you wolfread, right? i'm assuming thats why you're kinda talking around me atp

if that's the case then i would prefer you not do that, at least for a bit?

i don't reallllly think your scumread on me is in good faith, but regardless of that i feel like more and more people who know you better than i know you are calling you a villager, some with a decent bit of confidence, and if they're right i feel like it'd be better for both of us to find some common ground

It's not "never interact with people you wolfread you," that would be silly. It's that I don't find it productive to talk to people who wolfread me, or people I wolfread, about that read.

Like what actual good do you think it's gonna do to try to argue about this specific issue if we happen to be v/v? It would be like that meme of spider man pointing at himself.

My wolfread on you is based on a) me noticing that you were talking about me in a way that looked performative vs. having a specific read or one that seemed inquisitive. I.e. just kind of waving your hand around and going "hey guys newcomb looks wolfy" type posts. And then b) me being generally on the lookout for a wolf to try this kind of thing with me - poking at/around me specifically to get townread. Your treatment of me matched both my loose range of people who might try this, and the lack of depth in the approach to it matched my conception of the commitment someone might have to that kind of play D1.

The problem is, what are you going to say to that that's going to be productive in addressing that? "Nah bro that's not what I'd do as a wolf."? We're not arguing about the base facts of what you did, we'd be arguing about subjective interpretations about it, and what use would that be? You're biased.

And you could pretty much flip everything I just said around for you wolfreading me.

If you want my read on you to evolve and change, just play the game, show me you're invested in it, show me your thought process. If you want to find common ground with me specifically, talk to me about literally anything other than your alignment or mine.

Here, I'll start: right now what I'm considering a pivot point this game is cape vs. sleep. Going through the possible worlds where they're v/v, v/w, w/v, and w/w, what do you think the game looks like in those worlds, does anything really important stand out? Do you think any of those configurations are wildly unlikely?

[EnderWiggin]

for game integrity reasons i dont wanna drop hints about my identity (i feel like its...unfair to hint at stuff while a game is in progress and potentially get v read for it when ppl didnt know me to start)


ill just say i was invited here by visor (obviously), ive played on MU, and ive been playing this game half-imitating the style of someone none of you lot know. hopefully that will be enough.

I'm gonna give you a soft v read anyway.

[EnderWiggin]

Vote: Newcomb

Read me Mr Seymour

[EnderWiggin]

:bullseye: better emotes
:bullseye: better multiquote function
:bullseye: chill games where people aren't mad at everyone by mid day 1 for daring to wolf read them


the org goat

Wait, was I supposed to be mad about being sussed?

Fuck. I've been doing it all wrong!

[EnderWiggin]

katze treatement of newcomb this game is pretty much a carbon copy of how he treated me as v/v in the poisoner invitational 21er afair

except he gave me d1 freepass (and i did get n1ed)


and i dont really think they'd play like this as a wolf

Kinda vibe with this read.

Also I like Katze's humour esp around the sleep wagon/etc so

[EnderWiggin]

Because I don't think Cuth/Monstr work together

Wait.

So to clarify:
You're saying you would be sus of Cuth but you don't because you think Monstr is wolf?

[EnderWiggin]

I don't. No, those are not contradictory statements.

...

Now I'm confused.

[EnderWiggin]

I've decided to remove Cuth for now cause once I started writing it out I realized my brain was jumping around too much and missed a step or two along the way

Can you explain what your actual jump was? Because ngl I have been lost on it.

[Cuthillius]

ender, do you think there are any ways in which the general consensus of the thread starkly differs from your perception of the game?

[EnderWiggin]

ikr, soz.

outside of me who else do you think is sus? maybe we can talk and I'll change my mind.

Uh lemme parse my thoughts into lists.

I dislike Ladd's treatment of me particularly. The read on me (The whole "Backwards quoting" thing) feels entirely forced and also liiiike, unrealistic.

Raskol is obvious scum because of his lack of posts.

Sunbae I was leaning townish but the whole Monstr/Cuth read feels like he realised he fucked up and backed up. Pending explanation that makes my brain do the good wobly jelly I'm going to stare at him.

Monstr feels weaksauce.

I was townreading Cape but the whole Sleep thing is making me wonder.

[Cuthillius]

i feel ender is >(>*.5)rand villagery despite also doing a lot of wolfy things

this makes me feel less cozy about some people i called villagers earlier

more on this another time

[EnderWiggin]

ender, do you think there are any ways in which the general consensus of the thread starkly differs from your perception of the game?

I'm not sure there is a general consensus.

But there are definitely a few trends I've seen which I'm not entirely onboard with.

See the scumreads I just posted.

[hollowkatt]

I was having fun memeing at the start so unless you're talking about the sharp gear change on ben idk what you're talking about harder to get into.

maybe it was that I didn't think your memes were funny.
Your first 10 or so posts are the ones I felt were "off", and that off-ness I read as "difficulty trying to get into the game"

After that you do improve so meh

[Cuthillius]

I'm not sure there is a general consensus.

But there are definitely a few trends I've seen which I'm not entirely onboard with.

See the scumreads I just posted.

it looks like the two ~consensus (given this point in the game) reads you list are ladd/sunbae v?

second seems dubious given that zack and others have suspected him

wrt ladd do you think your issues could be a result of him latching onto a specific "tell" and anchoring onto it and then your automatically suspecting him because he's pressuring you for suspect reasons? what do you think about his content outside of his push on you? do you think it's meaningful that a lot of people are v-reading him?

how do you feel about the larger-scale pushes on sunbae in the context of your main issue being that particular thing he said

why do you think him walking that back is something he'd be more likely to do as a wolf than as a villager? what are some reasons you think he could have done that there as town?

[Cuthillius]

yo hk

what's your take on the katze/newc clash

what's the absolute spiciest yeet you'd be willing to be on-wagon for if eod happened right now

does the posting of any of the people who've been less strongly locked into the game (dobby, monstr, csargo, monty, etc) stand out to you in particular? if so why

[Csargo]

maybe it was that I didn't think your memes were funny.
Your first 10 or so posts are the ones I felt were "off", and that off-ness I read as "difficulty trying to get into the game"

After that you do improve so meh

I read Ender's early posts as excited/jovial, so did you read them differently? That doesn't seem like something you'd characterize as "difficulty trying to get into the game", unless you just think it was fake? or something else?

[hollowkatt]

Uh lemme parse my thoughts into lists.

I dislike Ladd's treatment of me particularly. The read on me (The whole "Backwards quoting" thing) feels entirely forced and also liiiike, unrealistic.

Raskol is obvious scum because of his lack of posts.

Sunbae I was leaning townish but the whole Monstr/Cuth read feels like he realised he fucked up and backed up. Pending explanation that makes my brain do the good wobly jelly I'm going to stare at him.

Monstr feels weaksauce.

I was townreading Cape but the whole Sleep thing is making me wonder.

cool I can work with that.

Ok, I think sunbae is town. I think I might be the only person who thinks that but i found their early game posting very free flowing and natural. His early posts regarding the suicide bomber felt townie to me in terms of "lets do something bombastic and then relax in dvc for the rest of the game" vs "do the hard work of solving, staying alive, and pushing people".

I get that can also be read as wolfy, I think it's not though.
I also like, and jibe with, the "shield dobby d1" post he made for basically the reasons he articulated. Dobby can be super strong but also can just kinda fold to early pressure even as town, and if dobby is town he'd be an asset for sure (not like this is saying much, the entire thread is an asset tbh).

even if sunbae is wrong here:
I'm struggling to parse Cape simultaneously making a wall post about avatar reads and throwing suspicion on people for jokey posts on the first page and a half. Could be wolfy fake suspicion that doesn't flow well or could just be a villager making a shift in seriousness quickly. Maybe someone else has a better take on it.

it doesn't mean it's not a town way of thinking about things. If sun was doing hard pushes on cape maybe I'd have a different opinion but this reads like a "hey I noticed a thing, anyone else notice a thing" more than a hard push.

I officially rescind my N0 red on Raskol and want to keep him alive for today. I think he's a super easy push for later today b/c he's not posted and he'll likely struggle to catch up if/when he does start posting, but being absent is not a wolf tell for Raskol.
Being a meme filled pockety jerk is though. Just fyi.

I have no read on Ladd but probably should come up with something. Cuth I think can be town, Monstr I think can be a wolf. Mostly b/c his ISO sucks a lot and by sucks a lot I mean it is entirely too short AND filled with things that read like they're spicy for the sake of being spicy, not actually things he believes in.

[EnderWiggin]

maybe it was that I didn't think your memes were funny.
Your first 10 or so posts are the ones I felt were "off", and that off-ness I read as "difficulty trying to get into the game"

After that you do improve so meh

Well.

I found me funny.

[hollowkatt]

yo hk

what's your take on the katze/newc clash

what's the absolute spiciest yeet you'd be willing to be on-wagon for if eod happened right now

does the posting of any of the people who've been less strongly locked into the game (dobby, monstr, csargo, monty, etc) stand out to you in particular? if so why

I think katze is town, I think newcomb is leaning super hard into "newcombness" with these two posts

I think this is the part where I'm supposed to say something like, "Katze's the kind of player who lacks the testicular fortitude to poke at me like this as a wolf."

https://c.tenor.com/OoUxaidX2q0AAAAM/surprise-doakes.gif

Vote: Katze


To expand on that:

I think katze falls into a group of players in this list - a relatively small one - whose experience with me falls into a range of "mostly recent-ish MU games" where they'd be likely to have internalized the fact that I pretty frequently give people town passes for poking at me in a way that I think a lot of wolves would be afraid to. Internalized it to the extent where it'd be ~somewhat likely that they'd think it was a decent approach to me as a wolf.

I also think Kat's treatment of my slot has felt way way more like poking / drawing attention than any kind of inquisitiveness / genuine sorting.

kind of like "this is a meta thing I have been known to do and nobody is doing the thing so I'm going to manufacture a situation where the thing happens and then use that to subvert the expectations" which is probably shit but I like thinking it.

The spiciest yeet I'd be willing to jump on would probs be like zack or neb, neither of which I remember anything specific about and sometimes forget that they exist in the game.

csargo I feel has been moderately townie. monstr, monty, dobby could probably all go and I wouldn't miss them at all. Monstr specifically so, see my post a few posts ago about why

[Zack]

cuth is asking too many questions

he's been moved to sightly below null

make your own content bronana :furious3:

[hollowkatt]

I read Ender's early posts as excited/jovial, so did you read them differently? That doesn't seem like something you'd characterize as "difficulty trying to get into the game", unless you just think it was fake? or something else?

yeah to me they read as more forced content than anything else. I'm not sure if that's just me being weird or ender being weird. My discussions with ender though recently have given me more of a good feeling about him than his earlier posting did so maybe call him null/lean town instead of 'lets kill'

[katze]

snip

👍

currently thinking it's best for both of you (@EnderWiggin primarily) to focus on other avenues than eachother

ender: i think HK is p villagery and think your read on him is... it kinda feels like you feel obligated to have A Read there in a similar vein to how i feel when i play with 1-2 FoLers in a playerlist? i dunno. i think you're wrong, and it's souring my view on you


for game integrity reasons i dont wanna drop hints about my identity

fair enough?, i won't bother speculating further then and if i read you wrong ill blame it on you secretly being some elite player 😹


snip
Newcomb:

i'm not so much interested in like... convincing you that you're a wolf, nor am i interested in you convincing me that i'm a wolf. obviously that's not going to go anywhere regardless of either of our alignments.

my main reason for asking you to engage with that read more was... well, two reasons, one is selfish and preflippy. the other being that i want you to lay it all out at once and i want to read it and see if i Believe that you Genuinely Wolfread Me? i don't intend on really extending it beyond me feeling that out. i don't want it to, nor do i plan to let it really eat up the thread


a) me noticing that you were talking about me in a way that looked performative vs. having a specific read or one that seemed inquisitive. I.e. just kind of waving your hand around and going "hey guys newcomb looks wolfy" type posts

i assume this is referring to post 221, maybe 144 if you want to stretch that phrasing to the limit, but idk bout that one. regardless: yeah, sure. i think it's a stylistic thing, i kinda disagree with this being A Wolftell?, and i know that isn't rly a productive argument either.

however, #159 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828423&viewfull=1#post2053828423) exists, and i think that is very much so the opposite of that? from reading your response to me i'm not really surprised you never directly address that post, but i'd still like you to?

and while i'm at that, to further clarify post 221: i made that post because every post you had made on that page just... either felt surface level or hedgy or a bit of both in ways i continued to dislike from you. your two post response to hollowkatt was what sealed the deal for me, because your response to the no-execute proposal just felt insanely exaggerated (and also missed one of the bigger problems with voting no-exe) while your next post legitimately looks word for word like a post i wrote in my first mafia game ever lol. plus the two hollowkatt posts you're replying to are basically next to eachother and replying to both separately is kinda weh but i concede that this is p likely to be NAI

and yeah i could say all of this in post 221 but that's not rly how i roll and i also kind of wanted a sanity check more than anything else and if someone was like "yeah i agree" and then listed what i said in the above paragraph i'd be like "damn that's just a villager" and probably ride that clear for the entire game.


b) me being generally on the lookout for a wolf to try this kind of thing with me - poking at/around me specifically to get townread.

yeah i mean, i already flat out said that i am 100% not a wolf who'd tremble in fear seeing your name in the playerlist, and i strongly doubt you don't know that given... awkwardly motions towards the finale

but meh. part of what i said earlier to zack(iirc) was that i feel like you're relying on things that are Technically True Objectively. i read this line from you and i'm like "yeah regardless of his alignment this is probably true!" and that doesn't fill me with much confidence wrt you genuinely believing you've (as a villager) caught me in some act as opposed to me fitting a preconceived notion that you (as a wolf) can make approximately fit, i guess


[...]

Here, I'll start: right now what I'm considering a pivot point this game is cape vs. sleep. Going through the possible worlds where they're v/v, v/w, w/v, and w/w, what do you think the game looks like in those worlds, does anything really important stand out? Do you think any of those configurations are wildly unlikely?

for the time being i'm pretty much entirely willing to discount w/w

i personally think it's very likely v on sleeps side, i think it's a particular kind of village nitpickiness and i personally don't really think it comes from the mindset of "a wolf who is trying to bury a villager"... i typed out a few reasons why but i realize that at this stage of the game i don't really think anyone would ever write a wallpost along the lines of "cape is 100% lack woalf and all of these small things are damning and never done by villagers, lmao"

still believe it's pretty likely to come from a villa tho, and if sleep does end up flipping mafia i'd assume one or two of his bros at the least were already under heat and the cape case was a way to divert it or keep himself out of the fire. or both.

so that leaves v/v or v(sleep)/w(cape). personally i don't think cape has been very villagery, partially due to meta reasons - it's something i don't really feel like pursuing strongly today though because i think cape is like, blindingly villagery as town after a few phases.

i don't really know what the ~threadstate~ would look like in any of these worlds, that's not really something i'm great at and i feel like the mafia roles aren't particularly important so it's not like mafia are obligated to like, hard defend their vig or something.

my current take is that it's v/v > v(sleep)/w(cape)>>>>>w(sleep)/v(cape)>>>>>>>>w/w

[EnderWiggin]

it looks like the two ~consensus (given this point in the game) reads you list are ladd/sunbae v?

second seems dubious given that zack and others have suspected him

wrt ladd do you think your issues could be a result of him latching onto a specific "tell" and anchoring onto it and then your automatically suspecting him because he's pressuring you for suspect reasons? what do you think about his content outside of his push on you? do you think it's meaningful that a lot of people are v-reading him?

how do you feel about the larger-scale pushes on sunbae in the context of your main issue being that particular thing he said

why do you think him walking that back is something he'd be more likely to do as a wolf than as a villager? what are some reasons you think he could have done that there as town?

Nah Sunbae is more consensus w than v.

As I said tho, not really consensus reads exist, mine are only a bit out of whack with thread.

WRT Ladd I absolutely could see it. But I also think like, he's jumped onto this small thing like a bull terrier and hasn't even bothered to think deeper about it. Like he's got his excuse to push me, doesn't see any solid defense of me, so he's just happy to sit on it and exist without re-evalling.

The larger scale push on him exists but I haven't noticed anything with it that I thought was sus?

I think him walking it back would happen regardless of alignment, as he obviously didn't have a solid reason for it. But I feel like as town there would at least be an explanation of how he got there, instead of this vague "I thought about it and changed my mind." that doesn't tell us exactly how his brain jumped to that.

[EnderWiggin]

I read Ender's early posts as excited/jovial, so did you read them differently? That doesn't seem like something you'd characterize as "difficulty trying to get into the game", unless you just think it was fake? or something else?

This is why I found HK's read weird. Because it certainly felt like I was fooling around and having fun to me.

[Csargo]

yeah to me they read as more forced content than anything else. I'm not sure if that's just me being weird or ender being weird. My discussions with ender though recently have given me more of a good feeling about him than his earlier posting did so maybe call him null/lean town instead of 'lets kill'

That's not the vibes I got from those posts, but I don't know ender very well either, so I probably wouldn't notice. #72 is the only thing that Ender's posted that seemed particularly bad to me.

[katze]

yo hk

what's your take on the katze/newc clash

what's the absolute spiciest yeet you'd be willing to be on-wagon for if eod happened right now

does the posting of any of the people who've been less strongly locked into the game (dobby, monstr, csargo, monty, etc) stand out to you in particular? if so why
Cuthillius

can you answer those three questions yourself?

[Monstrdude]

im going to slice this first post backwards, for no other reason than i want to save the part i feel strongest about for last, although all of it bothers me

okay, so, a lot of cape's early posting can be summed up as "doesn't get jokes". now, not getting jokes isn't inherently wolfy. but take note of the verbiage here - "a little odd". not only is it hedgy it stops short of actually making a call on my alignment - "odd" does not equate to "wolfy", townies can be "odd". it's a little thing but often wolves tend to avoid directly actually calling anything wolfy.

additionally he says katze's response seems "justified" - what parts of that post seem justified? it's...an obvious joke about voting "sleep" to take a nap. it's messing around, there's

again, not getting a joke is not a crime in and of itself but it doesn't seem to me like he's actually reading what is being said in a critical way

now, running back in time 5 seconds, we have another instance of cape not getting a fairly obvious joke

the problem here is he's only responding to this post with a cookie-cutter, broad brushstroke argument - "busywork". what parts of that post seem like busywork? we don't know, because cape doesn't respond to any of the content within. to me this looks like he's making reads based on form rather than content, which is again wolfy because it's a sign that he's not actually reading the game critically - if he had actually tried to engage with any of the "points" zack made in that post i'd be willing to give credit for being tryhardy even if he missed an obvious joke. but as it is, it doesn't look like he actually tried to meaningfully evaluate the stuff zack was saying, because I think if anyone puts more than two seconds of thought into reading his words they'd say "oh, this is an obvious joke".

as it is, it looks like he saw that it looked like a post by post analysis list and decided to call it busy work and shade it. he didn't stop to actually read it.

this part here is just...super wolfy? "hey guys, surprised no one is calling this wolfy, i mean i dont, but you might?". it's such a bizzre comment to make, like he's tossing out a bit of bait to see if someone will bite, but keeping his own distance from it. the problem is this: if he doesn't believe that sort of thing is a meaningful tell, why bring it up at all?

it just doesn't read like a natural thought at all. when someone doesn't think a post is alignment indicative, they typically don't talk about it. but here he's simultaneously trying to shade the post and distance himself from it. i dont get the sense this is something said by someone who is trying to find wolves.



"i don't see it" in response to an early wolfread push. not inherently bad in and of itself, but it is the kind of thing wolves frequently say in the earlygame - being dismissive of early wolfreads is an easy way to fake content, because all they have to do is disagree with people. wolves rarely are the type to lead a charge on someone so they'll often hold back when someone makes a stretchy case in the early game

i can sense some people probably rolling their eyes at this, and that's fine, it's a very minor point but i still wanted to discuss it because it pinged me. like i said, by itself this isn't a strong point at all because it can easily be said by a villager, but within the body of work i find it problematic.

says nothing, does nothing.

what, exactly, is there to like about this post? it's kind of generically agreeable in that it makes a point about how to play the game, and I agree that some forward momentum is preferable to a tepid, stagnant game, but it doesn't actually give me feelings on newcomb's alignment one way or the other. and again the verbiage of "in a sort of random way" is another statement that doesn't really do anything except to soften the read that follows.



first point, he "doesn't like" a read. but does it mean anything for ladds alignment? he doesn't bother to say. it's easy to agree or disagree with things other people say, but what is harder is to generate your own analysis and thoughts. and what we have is that he is "sort of villagery" (again, more soft language) for "actually the same reasons", which...doesn't make sense at all? it doesn't actually meaningfully address the points ladd is making. why is he villagery for mostly responding to things or "posting just to post"? it's a totally half-baked response, there's nothing in cape's posts that gives a real indicator of why he thinks ender is villagery.

This is a very pedantic sort of dismissal to ender that doesn't really engage with the substance of the argument being made at all. "you said he was putting it forward as if it was a deep read, but it was on one post so it can't be deep at all". which, okay, but he very clearly meant it as a serious read, and cape selectively cuts off the latter parts of his post where ender gets into the more elaborate parts of his thinking about how wolves sometimes try to get too serious too early and hard switch. it doesnt look like hes meaningfully evaluating or considering enders words, just blandly dismissing a point he feels is eay to shoot down. this looks like cape isnt actually trying to read neb or ender. it kind of feeds back into what i said earlier about wolves tending to spend a lot of time in the early game shooting down reads rather than trying to solve.

(fwiw, i did like nebjiamn trying to make a serious accusation early there, and i think the antsiness to move the game forward and disappointment at being engaged with is towny. i didnt really want to respond to the read at the time though because th read itself felt stretchy and it would be more useful to see how the person being accused responds to it rather than saying anything myself. i think dobbys response to it is fine for now. i dont agree with enders take that it could be a wolf play although i understand the reasoning)

this is maybe the most egregious instance of cape's hedgy verbiage - why qualify the read in this way? how can something almost look really wolfy?i can find it understandable only finding something slightly suspicious in the early game, but this just comes across like he's afraid to throw a punch. reads very unnatural. either it's really wolfy or it isn't.

that is to say nothing of how again this is an egregious misreading of katze's post - if he was actually paying attention he'd have noticed the second line talks about a "pasta" and i assume cape is at least familiar enough with the concept of "copypasta" to know what that means.

and again not getting smeone's inside joke is not a crime, but what this again demonstrates is that cape is not really reading posts critically, but selectively, picking and choosing things to comment on. he picks out the first and last lines to attack while missing the part that tells him the bottom part of the post is fake and therefore irrelevant.



again with the verbiage heavy on qualifiers, cape can hardly make a read without distancing himself from it

and again he can't actually bring himself to say how the post was supposed to be an "attempt at doing something". he doesn't engage with the substance at all. zack called something like 90% of the posts to that point wolfy, which is obviously absurd. i dont...get the sense cape was actually reading or evaluating that post in a meaningful way, just glossing it over and assuming it had to have been serious

Hm this a villagy post

[Cuthillius]

cuth is asking too many questions

he's been moved to sightly below null

make your own content bronana :furious3:

what sort of content should i make bronana

[Monstrdude]

not really a fan of monsters posts so far

:rtwno:

I'd probably have more to say if I was a wolf tbh but this game I'm just kinda going with it

Logging on when I can ama

[Monstrdude]

Oh god did we decide this was a tryhard game when I wasn't looking

[Monstrdude]

cool I can work with that.

Ok, I think sunbae is town. I think I might be the only person who thinks that but i found their early game posting very free flowing and natural. His early posts regarding the suicide bomber felt townie to me in terms of "lets do something bombastic and then relax in dvc for the rest of the game" vs "do the hard work of solving, staying alive, and pushing people".

I get that can also be read as wolfy, I think it's not though.
I also like, and jibe with, the "shield dobby d1" post he made for basically the reasons he articulated. Dobby can be super strong but also can just kinda fold to early pressure even as town, and if dobby is town he'd be an asset for sure (not like this is saying much, the entire thread is an asset tbh).

even if sunbae is wrong here:

it doesn't mean it's not a town way of thinking about things. If sun was doing hard pushes on cape maybe I'd have a different opinion but this reads like a "hey I noticed a thing, anyone else notice a thing" more than a hard push.

I officially rescind my N0 red on Raskol and want to keep him alive for today. I think he's a super easy push for later today b/c he's not posted and he'll likely struggle to catch up if/when he does start posting, but being absent is not a wolf tell for Raskol.
Being a meme filled pockety jerk is though. Just fyi.

I have no read on Ladd but probably should come up with something. Cuth I think can be town, Monstr I think can be a wolf. Mostly b/c his ISO sucks a lot and by sucks a lot I mean it is entirely too short AND filled with things that read like they're spicy for the sake of being spicy, not actually things he believes in.

This isn't a real thought it was one post

vote: hollowkat

[hollowkatt]

Well.

I found me funny.

sometimes that's all that matters tbh

[Monstrdude]

Sunbae
Cuth
Sleep

V/v/v imo

Maaaaaybe zack

[Zack]

Sunbae
Cuth
Sleep

V/v/v imo

Maaaaaybe zack

:pray:

[hollowkatt]

what sort of content should i make bronana

the kind that outs your alignment.

[hollowkatt]

bronana

[Monstrdude]

I've gone back and forth on sunbae a fair bit this game but ultimately I think that sunbae as a villager is much more likely to post giant swathes of stream-of-consciousness type posts that just sort of explain what he's feeling at any given moment in the the thread. Contrast this to him as a wolf where I'm pretty sure he's more liable to just say whatever random crap gets any villager launched.

I liked cuthilius' exchange saying that newcomb had a rather tepid take, thought it was kind of bold

Sleep's last post was good + I liked the incredulity that they gave when they came right back at me for saying their posts were wolfy. I mean sure a wolf could easily say "no I don't see why you think that's wolfy" but I feel like most wolves actually have a level of awareness of their posts that makes them more inclined to react to someone saying "you're wolfy" with "yea ok"

Zack I feel like generally tries to ignore me as a wolf but that's like a super thin read

[Cuthillius]

Nah Sunbae is more consensus w than v.

As I said tho, not really consensus reads exist, mine are only a bit out of whack with thread.

WRT Ladd I absolutely could see it. But I also think like, he's jumped onto this small thing like a bull terrier and hasn't even bothered to think deeper about it. Like he's got his excuse to push me, doesn't see any solid defense of me, so he's just happy to sit on it and exist without re-evalling.

The larger scale push on him exists but I haven't noticed anything with it that I thought was sus?

I think him walking it back would happen regardless of alignment, as he obviously didn't have a solid reason for it. But I feel like as town there would at least be an explanation of how he got there, instead of this vague "I thought about it and changed my mind." that doesn't tell us exactly how his brain jumped to that.

nods, appreciate this

i qualified the word consensus when i used it in the initial thing for a reason, yeah, more just like the reads that are held by enough people that they're sorta taken as the default in a sense beyond just being held by n people

i would cite like the reads on benneh/ladd as examples of this where people are often just ok like using less effort to clear someone just because so many other people or other people who are active/trustworthy are reading them a certain way

but this matters to some extent because often these are useful for wolves who can further agendas without actually like proactively doing anything towards them, but can also be the process of slow and inevitable death for wolves in face of towncore

wrt ladd sure

do you think the fact that there's like a third of the game that's relatively low impact could make it more likely for v!ladd to put his vote on you, someone who's active and has done a thing he doesn't like, compared to people who have less content and maybe might have fewer villagery things in their favor but also feel less productive to actually vote?

i mean i do things and think things without all of my thought process making into thread all of the time, i'm mostly curious why you jump to "since thought process isn't there, it's >rand w" instead of being like "hey what's the thought process" and then evaluate that on its own merits

there are things where <not doing x> can be ai, but do you think that particular thing seems like something that he literally just made up, and thus not going into more depth is wolfy? do you think w!sunbae would be more or less likely to monitor what he was doing and avoid doing things without having a reasonable reason to back them up than v!sunbae?

[Cuthillius]

Sunbae
Cuth
Sleep

V/v/v imo

Maaaaaybe zack

can you talk about sleep please?

[Cuthillius]

oop

i can read i swear

[Monstrdude]

:angel::angel:

hk, sunbae


:angel:

sleep, newcomb


:beatnik2:
cuth, csar, dobby, rask


:pimp2:

benneh, ladd, katze, monstr


:pimp2::pimp2:

cape, blade, monty


:pimp2::pimp2::pimp2::pimp2::pimp2:

zack

This is the second time I've seen you with Zack at the bottom of your reads in a game we've been in together. You like to do this often or just specific to those to games? (The other was representative democracy)

[Csargo]

This is why I found HK's read weird. Because it certainly felt like I was fooling around and having fun to me.

That's why I asked, since I came to a completely different conclusion reading your posts. So it just seemed odd or a mischaracterization to case you, but that also seemed odd to do.

[Cuthillius]

csargo can i get a readslist pretty pleaselist

[Zack]

This is the second time I've seen you with Zack at the bottom of your reads in a game we've been in together. You like to do this often or just specific to those to games? (The other was representative democracy)

it's sort of a meme, I don't think he was being serious

[Monstrdude]

it's sort of a meme, I don't think he was being serious

That probably makes sense then tbh

[katze]

cuth ignoring me ��

zack has been placed at the bottom of my readlist

[Monstrdude]

Vote: Monstrbro

This is an awkward post to read after top village reading someone

[Zack]

cuth ignoring me ��

zack has been placed at the bottom of my readlist

nice

[katze]

emojis not working here is an absolute crime but that is a pensive emoji

[katze]

This is an awkward post to read after top village reading someone

call me a top townread and ill vote u too

[Monstrdude]

Cool, 175 posts in 4 hours. I'll blind- Vote: Monstrbro for that.

Above rand chance this is a wolf

[Monstrdude]

call me a top townread and ill vote u too

Katze top town

You may attempt to launch me now

[katze]

sike im not voting you now

owned

[Monstrdude]

:cool3:
zack

:2thumbsup: (villagy enough for d1)
newcomb
katze
cape
hollowkatt

:rtwyes: (slightly above null)
benneh
cuth
ladd
sleep

:hide: (null)
csargo
winston
rask

~:handball: (mostly not here but also didnt particularly care for their posts, slightly below null)
dobby
monstr

:boxedin: (sorry bronana)
sunbae

:damnmate:
ender/bladescape
monty

I think this list is half right but meh what do I know

Maybe the bottom is okay both have been blindly railing me all day

[Monstrdude]

sike im not voting you now

owned

Sike you're my top wolfread

[Monstrdude]

It's not "never interact with people you wolfread you," that would be silly. It's that I don't find it productive to talk to people who wolfread me, or people I wolfread, about that read.

Like what actual good do you think it's gonna do to try to argue about this specific issue if we happen to be v/v? It would be like that meme of spider man pointing at himself.

My wolfread on you is based on a) me noticing that you were talking about me in a way that looked performative vs. having a specific read or one that seemed inquisitive. I.e. just kind of waving your hand around and going "hey guys newcomb looks wolfy" type posts. And then b) me being generally on the lookout for a wolf to try this kind of thing with me - poking at/around me specifically to get townread. Your treatment of me matched both my loose range of people who might try this, and the lack of depth in the approach to it matched my conception of the commitment someone might have to that kind of play D1.

The problem is, what are you going to say to that that's going to be productive in addressing that? "Nah bro that's not what I'd do as a wolf."? We're not arguing about the base facts of what you did, we'd be arguing about subjective interpretations about it, and what use would that be? You're biased.

And you could pretty much flip everything I just said around for you wolfreading me.

If you want my read on you to evolve and change, just play the game, show me you're invested in it, show me your thought process. If you want to find common ground with me specifically, talk to me about literally anything other than your alignment or mine.

Here, I'll start: right now what I'm considering a pivot point this game is cape vs. sleep. Going through the possible worlds where they're v/v, v/w, w/v, and w/w, what do you think the game looks like in those worlds, does anything really important stand out? Do you think any of those configurations are wildly unlikely?

Ftr the above is why I like to leave a lot of my reads inside my head

Outing them can often make things worse, esp if you're not sure

[Zack]

Above rand chance this is a wolf

agreed

you can look back at past games on this forum (that were far more active than this) where monty was town and had no issues getting down and dirty and spamming wallposts from the get go

it's over 24 hours, he's posted and none of it contained anything that could be construed as finding wolves or finding town, and the whine about volume was bleh

:thumbsdown:

[katze]

isnt monte a shitposter

[katze]

wait this is monty not monte

ha

[EnderWiggin]

do you think the fact that there's like a third of the game that's relatively low impact could make it more likely for v!ladd to put his vote on you, someone who's active and has done a thing he doesn't like, compared to people who have less content and maybe might have fewer villagery things in their favor but also feel less productive to actually vote?

i mean i do things and think things without all of my thought process making into thread all of the time, i'm mostly curious why you jump to "since thought process isn't there, it's >rand w" instead of being like "hey what's the thought process" and then evaluate that on its own merits

there are things where <not doing x> can be ai, but do you think that particular thing seems like something that he literally just made up, and thus not going into more depth is wolfy? do you think w!sunbae would be more or less likely to monitor what he was doing and avoid doing things without having a reasonable reason to back them up than v!sunbae?

I think V or W Ladd focuses more on the active players at this point. Active players for town can give you something. Active players for wolves are dangerous and voting the low impact sorta afk people is something I only see newer wolves do. Unless an experienced wolf has a good reason.

I will point out re: Sunbae that I have straight up asked Sunbae to give me their train of thought. And appended my wolf read with a "Unless their explanation makes me happy jiggle."

Can I just ask:
What is the point to these questions? It half feels like you're trying to find a way to pin me into a corner where I've somehow contridicted myself. And I must say it is not a feeling I like in the slightest.

[Zack]

lol d1 tbh

all of my posts are just an elaborate reaction test

can we skip to the part where i suicide bomb katze d2 already? ~:handball:

[katze]

lol d1 tbh

all of my posts are just an elaborate reaction test

can we skip to the part where i suicide bomb katze d2 already? ~:handball:

well now im not giving you the vest tonight bronana

[Zack]

well now im not giving you the vest tonight bronana

:sweatdrop:

[Zack]

I will say one thing that gives me pause on Cape is that he comes into the thread, makes a few posts, then leaves. they're like hit and runs

:juggle:

[Zack]

:sweatdrop:

but more seriously, I think the optimal play is for sorcerer to give the bomb to someone in the POE and try to hit a wolf with it. the best case scenario is getting a 1:1 trade with it anyway, try to use it like a vig that has some upside of still bagging a wolf even with a "misvig"

[Csargo]

csargo can i get a readslist pretty pleaselist

I mean I don't really have much tbh, I've just been messing around.

I'd say that zack/benneh/sunbae/ladd/Cuth seem good

Newcomb/katze/sleep/winston seem fine

Rask/Monstr/hk I don't have a good read on

The rest have either made posts I found wolfy that I'm pretty sure I've talked about already or just haven't posted enough.

Think Monty's the most likely woof I can see, just from prior game experience.

[EnderWiggin]

I mean I don't really have much tbh, I've just been messing around.

I'd say that zack/benneh/sunbae/ladd/Cuth seem good

Newcomb/katze/sleep/winston seem fine

Rask/Monstr/hk I don't have a good read on

The rest have either made posts I found wolfy that I'm pretty sure I've talked about already or just haven't posted enough.

Think Monty's the most likely woof I can see, just from prior game experience.

Defends me but has a wolf read on me.

Real rip

[EnderWiggin]

but more seriously, I think the optimal play is for sorcerer to give the bomb to someone in the POE and try to hit a wolf with it. the best case scenario is getting a 1:1 trade with it anyway, try to use it like a vig that has some upside of still bagging a wolf even with a "misvig"

Yes to this.

[Cuthillius]

cuth ignoring me ��

zack has been placed at the bottom of my readlist

nice

[Zack]

nice

you LOVE to SEE IT

[Csargo]

Defends me but has a wolf read on me.

Real rip

Eh, more a chance to pick hk's brain on what they were seeing rather than defending you.

[Cuthillius]

Cuthillius

can you answer those three questions yourself?

i 100% did not see this post i swear don't vote me because i didn't reply to this post i'm not just making it up

uh i think you're more likely both v than not

there's a world where you're just going in hard as wolf to project this thing and i don't think you'd be scared to do it to newc but i think the like escalation and nuance of your push looks good and how it's your focus but not all you're doing

mostly i'm happy you ramped it up (in terms of your alignment)

newc is harder to really say anything definitive about but maybe he feels like actually trying to use time well and solve game rather than be performative in the way that he responds to stuff

i would be ok with idk aorn i wouldn't hang on

vote: winston hughes

i'd be ok with like mmh

sleep might be the spiciest

i think there's probably reason for their placement in people's readslists but i honestly have nothing and feel like they have much higher potential ceiling than i was giving them credit for offhand until recently

csargo feels like very

he feels like a fish in an aquarium tank thing

and he's doing aquarium fish tank things and they're fine things but it's all in a very specific space and a specific mode and it's not just the low-posting

and i don't know how i feel about it

but it sticks out to me

[Zack]

sleep might be the spiciest

i think there's probably reason for their placement in people's readslists but i honestly have nothing and feel like they have much higher potential ceiling than i was giving them credit for offhand until recently

what does this sentence mean?

[Cape90]

Town:

zack
nebjiamn
Sleep
Newcomb

Light Town:

Sunbae
EnderWiggin
Cuthillus
Hollowkatt
katze

Talk more:

Montmorency

Light Wolf:

Csargo
ladd
Monstrdude
Winston
Dobby

here is reads that I have developed while struggle trying to ISO people without the ISO functionality

I bolded my most confident wolf reads.

vote: Csargo

I think Csargo has had good (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828723&viewfull=1#post2053828723) and bad (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828346&viewfull=1#post2053828346). And I feel like Csargo has been dodgy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828699&viewfull=1#post2053828699) with some of their posts (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828408&viewfull=1#post2053828408). What I mean is with some of the language they use in these posts like.


...but I understand the sentiment at least.

and


I mean it's not wrong but still, overreacting a bit

make of it what you will. Yes I understand people have used my light usage of words against me too, but this feels next level. ~:handball:

[Cuthillius]

I think V or W Ladd focuses more on the active players at this point. Active players for town can give you something. Active players for wolves are dangerous and voting the low impact sorta afk people is something I only see newer wolves do. Unless an experienced wolf has a good reason.

I will point out re: Sunbae that I have straight up asked Sunbae to give me their train of thought. And appended my wolf read with a "Unless their explanation makes me happy jiggle."

Can I just ask:
What is the point to these questions? It half feels like you're trying to find a way to pin me into a corner where I've somehow contridicted myself. And I must say it is not a feeling I like in the slightest.

to answer the last question first, to get a better understanding of the thought process behind your posts and a general sense of like how you see the game and its machinations in real time

also some of just poking at your reads because i think they're thin or i don't understand why you're doing what you're doing with them and seeing how you react and hopefully in the process filling in gaps in my mind

sorry if it comes across as combative or somethin'

wrt sunbae i know you've asked them but i just don't get why you have them as v and then are like ok now they're w but if they answer they can be v again and we're all good it's not something i think is super suspicious i just don't get it it doesn't seem like the sort of gap that could be filled by explanation that would naturally cause someone to flip their read just off that

but it's fine

i guess what i'm going for with ladd is more: i think him voting you specifically as either alignment makes sense given his reads and position, in that you are an active player and thus a more productive vote than the rest

so him being kinda static on you to me feels like it could be a "this is the most productive place for my vote without going in more depth" sort of deal, and i was wondering if that matches with your perception of how he's treating you and if not why

[Zack]

Town:

zack
nebjiamn
Sleep
Newcomb

Light Town:

Sunbae
EnderWiggin
Cuthillus
Hollowkatt
katze

Talk more:

Montmorency

Light Wolf:

Csargo
ladd
Monstrdude
Winston
Dobby

here is reads that I have developed while struggle trying to ISO people without the ISO functionality

I bolded my most confident wolf reads.

vote: Csargo

I think Csargo has had good (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828723&viewfull=1#post2053828723) and bad (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828346&viewfull=1#post2053828346). And I feel like Csargo has been dodgy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828699&viewfull=1#post2053828699) with some of their posts (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828408&viewfull=1#post2053828408). What I mean is with some of the language they use in these posts like.



and



make of it what you will. Yes I understand people have used my light usage of words against me too, but this feels next level. ~:handball:

you can ISO by going to the Gameroom forum, clicking on the number of replies, then clicking on the number of posts next to someone's name. :book2: but it can be a bit wonky sometimes

and believe it or not, but in my experienced that kind of mealy-mouthed language is actually town-indicative for Csargo specifically :creep:

[Cuthillius]

what does this sentence mean?

sleep might be the spiciest wagon i would consider voting for if it was eod right now

my brain has not processed their words very much but i think i was underestimating them and gave them more credit for what they wrote than they probably deserve, pending rereading

[Zack]

also cape forgetting rask prob means they aren't w/w?

:curtain:

[Cape90]

also cape forgetting rask prob means they aren't w/w?

:curtain:

Rask is Winston, one of my top wolves...

yeah?

[Cuthillius]

Rask is Winston, one of my top wolves...

yeah?

what?

[Zack]

Rask is Winston, one of my top wolves...

yeah?

lmao I dunno how you came to this conclusion?

rask is raskolnikov, a zero poster so far

[Csargo]

Town:

zack
nebjiamn
Sleep
Newcomb

Light Town:

Sunbae
EnderWiggin
Cuthillus
Hollowkatt
katze

Talk more:

Montmorency

Light Wolf:

Csargo
ladd
Monstrdude
Winston
Dobby

here is reads that I have developed while struggle trying to ISO people without the ISO functionality

I bolded my most confident wolf reads.

vote: Csargo

I think Csargo has had good (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828723&viewfull=1#post2053828723) and bad (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828346&viewfull=1#post2053828346). And I feel like Csargo has been dodgy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828699&viewfull=1#post2053828699) with some of their posts (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828408&viewfull=1#post2053828408). What I mean is with some of the language they use in these posts like.



and



make of it what you will. Yes I understand people have used my light usage of words against me too, but this feels next level. ~:handball:

It's gotten me yeeted many times.

[Cape90]

oh

well then never mind, anyway, I don't have any business really touching rask on my readslist.

Okay I came to the conclusion because if you click on the profile link of Rask and you view what is called "their activity" it shows Winston's posts there for some reason.

Carry on :curtain:

[hollowkatt]

This isn't a real thought it was one post

vote: hollowkat

I said what I meant and meant what I said.

[Sleep]

Town:

zack
nebjiamn
Sleep
Newcomb

Light Town:

Sunbae
EnderWiggin
Cuthillus
Hollowkatt
katze

Talk more:

Montmorency

Light Wolf:

Csargo
ladd
Monstrdude
Winston
Dobby

here is reads that I have developed while struggle trying to ISO people without the ISO functionality

I bolded my most confident wolf reads.

i have to ask, in #291 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154663-Sorceror-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053828555&viewfull=1#post2053828555) you expressed a "bubbling scumread" of cuthilius and monstr, and then stated that they weren't w/w. is that anti-alignment the reason you have cuth as a light townread now, or is there something more...?

[Cuthillius]

i forgot how hard it is for people to spell my username sometimes

good variety this game

i understand the alt but cuth is probably just easier for everyone else?

[Sleep]

i also dont really vibe with the wolfreads on winston, theres a lot of frivolity and joking around in his iso but im not sure thats really wolf-indicative vs someone who just isnt taking the game as seriously as other ppl

[Cuthillius]

i also dont really vibe with the wolfreads on winston, theres a lot of frivolity and joking around in his iso but im not sure thats really wolf-indicative vs someone who just isnt taking the game as seriously as other ppl

i voted him exclusively because of his readlist

[Sleep]

i voted him exclusively because of his readlist

go on...

[Cuthillius]

go on...

look i'm not going to pretend i did my research in terms of looking at the justifications for any of it

but it looked like the readslist i would expect a wolf to make in this gamestate lmao

in terms of what sort of people ended up in which categories

that's all you're gonna get from me rn i'm sorryy

[Sleep]

ok, i will drop it for now

i weirdly feel like thats the towniest thing youve posted

[Cuthillius]

https://media.giphy.com/media/3S9nnPvNGMt9u/giphy-downsized-large.gif

[nebjiamn]

:cool3:
zack

:2thumbsup: (villagy enough for d1)
newcomb
katze
cape
hollowkatt

:rtwyes: (slightly above null)
benneh
cuth
ladd
sleep

:hide: (null)
csargo
winston
rask

~:handball: (mostly not here but also didnt particularly care for their posts, slightly below null)
dobby
monstr

:boxedin: (sorry bronana)
sunbae

:damnmate:
ender/bladescape
monty
i was going to do my own tiered list but my world view is close enough to this

major exceptions are:

1) sunbae and cape in opposite spots for me
2) cuth lower/into null for me
3) winston sliiiiiiiiiightly above. probaly swap his spot with cuth actually
4) newcomb a bit lower, probably paired in the slightly under null group with dobby/monstr

[nebjiamn]

i like winston a bit on general vibes and on some of his poking about my slot. its light but i'm ok with it

i think cape's inclusion of winston as one of his strongest w reads without justification is another thing pinging me about cape. the csargo read already seems light but i feel like winston is a slot i think wolves would probably try to blithely push a bit in this game state, almost irrelevant of winston's actual alignmentbut especially if he's a villager. Cape90 if you could expand on why winston is your next biggest w read after csargo that would be appreciated

[nebjiamn]

i was going to do my own tiered list but my world view is close enough to this

major exceptions are:

1) sunbae and cape in opposite spots for me
2) cuth lower/into null for me
3) winston sliiiiiiiiiightly above. probaly swap his spot with cuth actually
4) newcomb a bit lower, probably paired in the slightly under null group with dobby/monstr

cause i'm a loser--not particularly ordered within tiers:

hollowkatt
Sunbae
Sleep


zack
katze
Ladd
Winston Hughes


cuthillius
Raskolnikov
Csargo


roro__b
monstrbro
Newcomb
EnderWiggin


Cape90
Montmorency

[Sunbae]

Sup

[katze]

Cuthillius:


sleep might be the spiciest

i think there's probably reason for their placement in people's readslists but i honestly have nothing and feel like they have much higher potential ceiling than i was giving them credit for offhand until recently

hm, can you expand on the ceiling part? i know you specifically said offhand but i still feel a bit weird about that entire line and your ISO only mentioning sleep one time prior to this

👍 to the rest of the post tho


i forgot how hard it is for people to spell my username sometimes

good variety this game

i understand the alt but cuth is probably just easier for everyone else?

im calling you cuthalicious glgl

[Sunbae]

Caught up.

- There's approximately zero chance I spend time writing a wall post about my thoughts on the Cuth/Monstr thing after already admitting that it was messed up on my end and retracting. You are legally allowed to wolf read me for not doing it. Nobody will stop you. I will silently judge you by thinking "lazy read" if you do though. Do you really want that? It sounds devastating.

- It seems the people with a lot of experience with Mont have them as a wolf so I guess I will as well. It also excites me that my pew pew read of Cape/Mont w/w could be the case still.

- I kinda think Ladd is a wolf but I will begrudgingly refrain from doing anything about it because the one thing I'm pretty good at concerning werewolf is understanding my place in a threadstate and I know barking up that tree with just get me scoffed at currently. I don't think his approach to me - notably saying I've been so non-committal that it's wolfy because I did it 6 years ago once - is reasonable. On either front. The "good read if it's an accurate representation" front and the "accurate representation of my play so far this game" front. I feel like I've been pretty open about my feelings on people and, quite frankly, feel like I'm one of the people that's been most straight forward about their reads and why they have them (outside of the cuth/monstr thing).

- I think both Newc and Zack are villagers getting pocketed by Ladd. I think the way they've handled this game day is in line with my feelings of villager them. Newcomb's post asking Katze about Cape/Sleep being the main reason there.

- I think Neb commenting about me leaving them off my villa list only to learn what their name was in this game was really funny. I'm curious on their thoughts on roro at the present because I feel like that's just kinda been a spot that's been glossed over mostly.

- I'm not really sure what to make of Ender's switch on me. I don't really know what the big deal is to admit an error? Seems pretty straightforward to me and villagy to just say oops and move on instead of spending a bunch of time trying to get bogged down in long wall posts explaining some read. I know HollowKatt has been pretty skeptical due to previous experiences of Ender crushing them or something so I guess that's gotten me a bit more concerned but I still think it's been fine posting. Kinda vibed with "i thought i was funny" even if it should be nai. But similar to mont, there's people with more experience with ender than i who find them wolfy so I'll tab that away for later.

- On a similar front, I have no idea why Zack is so hung up on my post saying I liked the role Visor came up with and thought it was hilarious. Me of all people will be thrilled to pew pew into someone, you know this. I think his handling of it is villagery, just ... incorrect.

- I'd be lying if I didn't say I've been getting an uneasy feeling about HK lately. Can't really place why. Something about the way they've just sounded confused about why people are wolf reading me, asking for explanations, getting none, and then just throwing me at the top of the list has me skeptical. Like a "shouldn't hk be a bit more hesitant with me" thing. With that said, I think I'm just in a weird place in the gamestate where I've been unable to really get reads on things outside of interactions with myself on a lot of people, and im notoriously easy to get turned around on things like this. Earlier in the day phase I thought HK was super towny for believing the things they said so I'm going to try and squash that unease for the rest of the day.

- Katze is cool. Dont really vibe with their newcomb wolf read (i kinda think Ladd spewed newcomb villa if wolf or has a really good read and called newcomb obvious villa if villa). Posting seems reasonable though.

- Idk, still kinda think Cape is a wolf but I'm trying to give my boy zack some credit on a strong villa read there and giving it some space. I don't mind letting it go for now.

- I should have a better read on Monstr but I don't. The selfish read is "calling me town because as a wolf I'd be burying someone" makes sense for their understanding of my game.

- I feel like Cs/Winston are people I should have a better idea on but they are pretty much in my null pile. Really liked the "wife stopped and said 'you're playing that game again aren't you'" post for humor but nothing alignment indicative for either afaik.


think I'm just gonna Vote: Monty for now

[EnderWiggin]

im calling you cuthalicious glgl

Cuthalicious definition make the players loco,
Votin' round me, townreads plainly in my photo.

[Sunbae]

Oh yeah, Sleep seems totally towny. Knew I forgot one

[Newcomb]

I mean I don't really have much tbh, I've just been messing around.

I'd say that zack/benneh/sunbae/ladd/Cuth seem good

Newcomb/katze/sleep/winston seem fine

Rask/Monstr/hk I don't have a good read on

The rest have either made posts I found wolfy that I'm pretty sure I've talked about already or just haven't posted enough.

Think Monty's the most likely woof I can see, just from prior game experience.

https://c.tenor.com/ULIsDYDTiNkAAAAM/sure-okay.gif

[Sunbae]

I have a pretty good Rask read. In fact, I've found absolutely zero posts of theirs to be wolfy.

[Cuthillius]

Cuthillius:



hm, can you expand on the ceiling part? i know you specifically said offhand but i still feel a bit weird about that entire line and your ISO only mentioning sleep one time prior to this

being intentional alt rather than just someone random from mu who sounds generally like that means could be better player than i might otherwise assume from general flavor feeling is all

[katze]

- Katze is cool

does this mean i can get away with calling you mafia for the cuth/monstr thing or will i lose my coolness energy

[Sunbae]

does this mean i can get away with calling you mafia for the cuth/monstr thing or will i lose my coolness energy

If you can explain why it's more likely for me to be mafia for making a read, going to expand on it, and then saying nevermind before moving on to something else then I won't deduct cool points. I don't think you'll be very successful though.

[Newcomb]

- I kinda think Ladd is a wolf but I will begrudgingly refrain from doing anything about it because the one thing I'm pretty good at concerning werewolf is understanding my place in a threadstate and I know barking up that tree with just get me scoffed at currently
...
- I think both Newc and Zack are villagers getting pocketed by Ladd. I think the way they've handled this game day is in line with my feelings of villager them. Newcomb's post asking Katze about Cape/Sleep being the main reason there.

I've definitely had thoughts along those lines fwiw

[katze]

being intentional alt rather than just someone random from mu who sounds generally like that means could be better player than i might otherwise assume from general flavor feeling is all

gotcha

my impression of that line was that it felt out of place to exist when you hadn't prior mentioned reads there but i don't think it's worth getting hung up on

[katze]

I have a pretty good Rask read. In fact, I've found absolutely zero posts of theirs to be wolfy.

tbf ive found 0 of them to be townie either :/


If you can explain why it's more likely for me to be mafia for making a read, going to expand on it, and then saying nevermind before moving on to something else then I won't deduct cool points. I don't think you'll be very successful though.

uhh

well actually i can

so!

...is there no spoiler boxes on this forum?

peepee poopoo

hopefully that covers it and i hope i can still be seen as cool by you

[Sunbae]

I've definitely had thoughts along those lines fwiw

I cannot emphasize enough how hard it is for me to get my footing in a game where I am kind of the center of attention, so like I have almost zero confidence in any of my reads here - especially ones based on how someone has interacted with me. I think I just got really, really, really shook when Zack of all people (who I normally vibe really well with) just came at me out of the gate. I tried hard to just sit back and let other things develop and find things I thought were interesting, but well nothing really developed and the focus got more and more on me.

[Sunbae]

And that's not like, a bad thing or anything. It's just a spot I'm not really used to operating from out of the gates.

[Cuthillius]

gotcha

my impression of that line was that it felt out of place to exist when you hadn't prior mentioned reads there but i don't think it's worth getting hung up on

i didn't think the posts were as important to read as they might be

[Sunbae]

I will be one village read that the spoiler says peepee poopoo

If it does you have to town read me