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Gemma

08-15-2024, 09:16

Hey now.

why did you vote ladd

insomnia

08-15-2024, 09:29

nice shat

my PoE doesn't change. benneh was part of it, and apparently the strat of "vote people you don't remember anything from" strat is OP for DAORG

insomnia

08-15-2024, 09:39

how does one get inverted into giving out medic heals?

whatever manti is saying is simply dangerous to assume without knowing the setup. his "heal" is not confirmed in any way.

jan said he will execute him. if he changed his mind then he's throwing pretty hard

Wisdom

08-15-2024, 09:50

Maybe too big of a thing but grr do you still keep notes of the vote history?

insomnia

08-15-2024, 12:05

Vote: wisdom

gonna look into knights today

insomnia

08-15-2024, 12:15

dyachei

grr
Gemma - only consider if knights is not w and if the following lunches are wrong

dolby
ender

Vantablack

these are prob my reads in the people that i've actually read posts from. i didn't analyse carefully so im waiting for opinions on which one is too high and for what reasons

we're likely killing wisdom today. i wish we don't flashwagon yet again. frankly im kinda upset with the outcome of things

insomnia

08-15-2024, 12:16

i haven't read EoD either other than ladd just being flashwagonned, gonna do that at some point

insomnia

08-15-2024, 12:22

the biggest question i have in my head rn is whether it's 4 or 5 wolves.

if the 3p had 2 night kills, then that seems a little KP heavy. so i'd lean towards 4, which would make 2 wolves

i feel like wisdom is the ideal lunch in either world, whether it's 2 or 3 wolves left.

idk if this is a terrible read, but as i said in a post i've made the other day attempting a lunch solve, i said benneh / sunbae has 1 but i doubt it has 2. i think that reason is a bit silly, but my thinking was that they both seemed way too non-influential and i feel like at least one would be more aggro in terms of doing things and the other would bus. but i guess just on a GAME TREATMENT level i feel like it doesn't smell of a sunbae / benneh w/w world, i can't really explain it other than gut. it's prob a silly read which is why i didn't lean to putting him in my reads, but i wouldn't like to lunch him today anyway

im just hard sold on a wisdom lunch for today, especially after last night's flashwagon

insomnia

08-15-2024, 12:32

i guess if maple is real then he gives an explanation for tonight's kills, but he can't be confirmed because of it

3p / wolfvig / villa vig. n1 jan jails stett, likely blocked nightvig kp or factional

n2 stett dies, which makes sense if wolves already targeted her. factional / wolfvig is bop. 3p is ded

n3 dya supposedly gets healed and shot by factional / wolfvig. jan dies to wolfvig / factional. 3p ded

the problem scenarios that i mentioned earlier which can't confirm maple

maple can be vig. the absence of 1 kill here would be cuz he got blocked by jail. again, we have no confirmation of any villager receiving the "cards". that's why i said jan would've thrown if he chose not to exe maple regardless of what he said in the night chat. maybe he villa read him, but we have no way of reading what he types to jan, and if maple isn't playing in the same way with the thread as he does with jan, then /shrug

the wolf vig is not full, just even night or some form of 1 shot.

however, if dya is claiming full vig here then i guess wolves should have one as well.

dyachei

08-15-2024, 12:40

insomnia

08-15-2024, 12:43

do you feel strongly about any names in my list to disagree with? or additions for the top ranks? in the gemma / grr tier, i mean

dyachei

08-15-2024, 13:46

I don't disagree that Gemma and grr are just v. Think their approach makes no sense for a wolf and Ladd had a strong v read on grr iirc

Gemma

08-15-2024, 13:58

if u ignore 3p it's 21 player game 75% of that is 16 so there should be 5 wolves total 3 alive

EnderWiggin

08-15-2024, 14:16

I just ~don't like Maple claiming lack clear on something where every single piece of evidence is something we have to trust she's telling the truth on.

Gives me some "Give me credit for my cool play/story" vibes.

Nyeh.

EnderWiggin

08-15-2024, 14:16

Gonna read Benneh spew and see where I end up now.

EnderWiggin

08-15-2024, 14:18

think cobalt's recent posting is p good (specially posts #76 and #82)

newcomb not giving a fuck about the game except about if colonel is gh feels slightly villagery (and also newcomb/bop are unlikely w/w)

after rereading bop/benneh's interactions, it felt very natural and meme'y and good and i don't want to kill either of them atm

initially liked syn pushing bop (colonel), but now that i'm villa reading bop i like it less.

Villagers

knights

didistetter
cobalt

colonel lubricator (bop)
nebjiamn (benneh)

gun to head villagers

newcomb
syn

Wolves

dyachei

and with that, good night :Zzzz:

Benneh villa read seems a bit too generous iyam

(I think/hope he'd agree with me)

This a good start lmao.

I might be back to thinking Nee sus

EnderWiggin

08-15-2024, 14:20

i agree, but i think i can explain it, ymmv. i think it was cause it was an odd segue onto a topic that was somewhat ... irrelevant anyway? like the idea that it was something of inherent value that sheep/knights didn't pick up on and point out is the wolfy part to me, because why did they have to think that was the case? what value or interest is gleaned from either of those players just taking stett's post as off the cuff. it seemed like a bunch of casual shade thrown onto ppl for making gut reads/leans which is the wolfy part to me

my only guess was the timing of stett's post could have made wisdom think this, but reading it in 'real-time' that wasn't something that occurred to me cause it was a pretty ~whatever post beyond being tonally towny and i didnt think much of anyone else reading into that post either

Does a wolf over-explainy about a partner like this? Hmmmmmmmmmm.

I wanna say that's a tentative plus point for Wisdom and Dolbalt

EnderWiggin

08-15-2024, 14:22

q: do you think wisdom was actually interested in why bob/knights/sheep (im forgetting who exactly it was now) didn't question whether that was a pre-written post?

that does not seem like something she would actually care about in that spot and i disliked the way it was framed because it came across as shade. so even if i accept maybe she just had a different thought/approach to the stett post the framing thereafter felt ruff to me

unfortunately i kinda like wisdoms other posts since then and i dont really care to go down this road a ton but c'est la vie and all since u brought it up

Hmmmm.

Benneh is fixated on this Wisdom start.

EnderWiggin

08-15-2024, 14:23

can u expand on the IH read. he seems like, an ~easy town find here tbh

Also kinda good for IH just because this feels more like TMI than trying to get people to townread a partner.

EnderWiggin

08-15-2024, 14:26

Oh yeah I'm just clearing Sunbae for Benneh jumping on the sus on me.

I don't see Benneh jumping on that if it was another wolf bringing it up.

EnderWiggin

08-15-2024, 14:34

Jan its nothing mega deep, just these posts in particular pinged me

emphasizing the vote on you was a joke twice/clarifying his intent just pings me a bit

the post about insom pings me for the 'kinda sus early' 'but p6 insom hits diff' when early on was mostly intro posts and it feels like somewhat of an exaggeration for something i viewed as either null or just irrelevant from insom (but ender being around to clarify which posts early he sus'd would help tbf)

the post about newcomb is just super awkward. its mostly fluff about his willingness to vote newcomb as a wolf in a game from a year ago segueing into 'why are you reading him?' with clarification that he doesnt even have a read on newcomb

i cant really explain the read beyond that. i admit its kinda meh but i don't really have much else to work on rn. his other posts in the flurry were ~fine i agree but for my money he's the wolfiest of the interesting/non-cop-out yeets on the table we're likely heading to (sheep/knights) that i think have more villa equity

I will not harp on about it cause self-defense is meh and wolves can do it so it means nothing.

But I do just wanna point everyone who thinks I'm sus at this post + how Benneh kept bringing me back up on D1 every few pages.

Anyway back to spew reading.

Gemma

08-15-2024, 14:35

ftr monty repeating "we must yeet wisdom so gemma clear is lock clear" all through his iso like he's practicing voodoo gives me the creeps

EnderWiggin

08-15-2024, 14:40

What does inverting do

maybe the wolves were hoping you’d get inverted and have to send a glorious lost villager shitpost into the thread instead of a fake lost wolf one

seems like an obvious reason to me

Eeepy.

This is probably confbias but it kinda feels like Benneh's reactions around the Maple stuff is ~eh on D2

EnderWiggin

08-15-2024, 14:44

really?

he feels town to me from what i've read so far

i was just gona say i doubt the game is (as) easy (as implied by a wolf death d1) because of that but i kinda dont know if i have a full enough grasp of everything yet to be so declarative of that

This is a post of all time.

I'm not sure what I think about it just yet.

EnderWiggin

08-15-2024, 14:46

gotcha. makes sense but i honestly didn't even put two and two together what he meant by that post when i read it originally. i don't really agree fwiw cause the post seems more throwaway than attack-y. also i don't feel like wisdom was really in any kind of danger for the second half of your justification to really matter here? she was pretty town read yesterday and i doubt that post makes much of a dent to syn's mindset about how he can or can't adjust his read on wisdom on days 2/3/4

if we pretended syn didn't die (or flipped v) what would your read on wisdom be here for their own posting?

Benneh really doesn't want Wisdom to be spew cleared.

EnderWiggin

08-15-2024, 14:49

im pocketed

fr tho this is what i was referencing re: collab -- this isn't stubbornness, this is eagerness to work w/ someone and i feel like him prodding newcomb about this read in particular is a good look cause newcomb did not have a particularly hard stance on me either way. iirc he had me as mostly null, but sunbae wanting to engage on that read from newc's nullish pov and feeling frustration from that strikes me as v villagery cause its not juxtaposed to make him look good/make newc look bad/generate a ton of publicity about his read on me.
grr didistetter fwiw

Yeah honestly this is just an example of Benneh pocketing Sunbae.

EnderWiggin

08-15-2024, 14:52

idk how to elucidate on my read and im not sure its even worth it but i feel like ender is being weirdly ignored

like i doubt anyone's going to prioritize him today cause he's kind of a non-player in EOD and it feels like he doesn't resolve much either way but something about his posting just irks me

i think jan mentioned he had a 'villagery burst' or something and like, that's what every instance of him joining thread has felt like to me -- a burst of energy and then farewell ill see you next time when the energy on his v reads starts to run low

and like i get its on me to talk about it more or case him but i just dont have that energy rn. if someone wants to explain why he's town to me ill listen but every bit of his presence has seemed like a facade to me

From what I've seen so far I'm inclined to say Ender is wolfing but I'd have to ISO dive him to have a higher level of confidence

bro aint pocketing me this game

can you talk to me about why, i dont reallyt think i have a good reason but if you have meta considerations then id like to factor that in onmy reread

Bleh.

I'm starting to be back to wolfreading Dolby oops.

That really weird interaction here is just.. ~eh

EnderWiggin

08-15-2024, 15:00

It can't be both Dolby and Maple.

No way they start today with a hard bus when they just lost Benneh.

EnderWiggin

08-15-2024, 15:03

eh thats fair ig about activity

is his town and wolf meta polarized at all or are there noticeable differences in terms of thread presence nebjiamn

personally im averse to pushes on him bc he's such an easy push to make and if hes v theres so much w motivation for doing that

i also just find the struggle of managing to clear lhf slots interesting / compelling in general so im naturally more attracted to that option but that's just me

i lean him v because when he's around i feel good about his posts, dunno why u dont but its not a strong enough read that i'd defend him rly

I know this is a read on how they read me but this direct counter-action to Benneh doing exactly what Gemma talked about re: Wolves treating me makes me feel just really good about the way they're reading the game.

EnderWiggin

08-15-2024, 15:06

i too am a PR

my target last night was ur mommotion was detected

Is it bad I read this as Benneh being salty about town people claiming PR when wagons form on them? Lmao.

EnderWiggin

08-15-2024, 15:12

Eh. Might be Maple is just town after all.

Still considering but either that or Benneh decided to bus early for it.

Hmmmmmm.

I don't really rate the D3 push because early on it looked like Maple was just ~gonna die.

But Benneh did try to put Maple on the table D2. Idk how seriously. Will think on this.

EnderWiggin

08-15-2024, 15:20

i agree on wisdom's w equity and the out of placeness of the claim in relation to everything else. idrg it but she did fake claim as a wolf in a recent 12/12er i hosted where she claimed some kinda cop (vanilla cop or somethin idr) on d2 as and survived / won the game off that silliness. if i draw a parallel from that game to this one the a) apparently unnecessary claim timing and b) the believability of the role existing in the roleset given everything else we know (she claimed that cop when other investigative had been elim'd d1 and i think the other PR had a pseudo invest like a desperado or smth) line up with my perception of the current game state and her place in it.

the 3p!devil would make sense thematically as an arsonist but there's ~0% shot rask tried to fake claim a vig shot that wasn't his own and the rest of the apparent KP in the game doesn't align with an arsonist existing unless they ignited last night AND arctic... shot someone he was village reading

my worry is that maple is wolf KP and wisdom is a meh role/Goon particularly because how the self-resolving/attention drawing occurred and if w we look at another 2/3 deaths tomorrow. but in that world i feel like wisdom would be lolcatting to throw the lunch here and they seem content? maybe that's telling lol

maybe we flip it around and kill wisdom here and have jan jail/kill maple? idk

Eeeeeeh.

I really don't wanna go Wisdom now. I think that's probably my biggest takeaway rn.

grr

08-15-2024, 15:25

Is it bad I read this as Benneh being salty about town people claiming PR when wagons form on them? Lmao.

it's a hunch but an ok hunch to have ig.

anyways i might be a bit more pragmatic going forward. quite frankly 22p games are not my hometurf at all and my desire to know about everything whats going on is just failing me.

so ill just say: half dead villas called wisdom/ladd not pure. some dead villas had a specific SR on wisdom anyway (arctic comes to mind) ladd said wisdom probs wolf. I personally I also believe wisdom probably wolf.

also clearing CW etc. so

Vote: Wisdom

offchance this is wrong I personally feel we got pretty outplayed here (i think we kinda not doing so well anyway cuz we legit only got an LHF wolf and a wolf that literally outed so far) but most reasonable vote to me rn.

No Wisdom I dont have a vote history for d3 rn I didnt feel like they were helping anyone (posting relevant wagons seems more helpful?). It isnt that much work so maybe i'll just do it now anyway.

EnderWiggin

08-15-2024, 15:26

Gemma

08-15-2024, 15:35

I know this is a read on how they read me but this direct counter-action to Benneh doing exactly what Gemma talked about re: Wolves treating me makes me feel just really good about the way they're reading the game.

i have bad news

EnderWiggin

08-15-2024, 15:38

i have bad news

Idc if you scumread me now you're in my town books.

Suffer through it.

dyachei

08-15-2024, 15:45

i have bad news

i think ben pushed ender a lot if they're partners. so i tend to think unaligned

i need a live player list

dyachei

08-15-2024, 15:50

V
grr
ender
gemma

v lean
sunbae
mont
insom
vanta

POE
Dolby
knights
wisdom

If i'm wrong it's in my v leans and probably insom having a good game or mont

grr

08-15-2024, 15:53

so here. Vote Histories:

d1: (i missed all ladd votes d1 cause they didnt have the space after the colon just fyi, should be fixed)

VoterVoted forPost
GemmaRaskol#7 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053856840&viewfull=1#post2053856840)
theknightsofneeeedyachei#16 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053856849&viewfull=1#post2053856849)
sheepsaysmeeptheknightsofneeee#63 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053856849&viewfull=1#post2053856849)
didistetterC0balt#65 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053856898&viewfull=1#post2053856898)
didistettersheepsaysmeep#68 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053856901&viewfull=1#post2053856901)
didistetterC0balt#80 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053856913&viewfull=1#post2053856913)
WisdomRaskolnikov#95 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053856928&viewfull=1#post2053856928)
sheepsaysmeepWisdom#142 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053856975&viewfull=1#post2053856975)
grrNewcomb#197 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857030&viewfull=1#post2053857030)
EnderwigginJan#211 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857044&viewfull=1#post2053857044)
Enderwiggintheknightsofneeee#228 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857061&viewfull=1#post2053857061)
didistetternebjiamn#248 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857081&viewfull=1#post2053857081)
Synsheepsaysmeep#386 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857219&viewfull=1#post2053857219)
Raskolnikovtheknightsofneeee#435 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857268&viewfull=1#post2053857268)
theknightsofneeeeJan#486 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857319&viewfull=1#post2053857319)
insomniadyachei#620 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857453&viewfull=1#post2053857453)
GemmaVanta#636 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857469&viewfull=1#post2053857469)
Newcombtheknightsofneeee#659 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857492&viewfull=1#post2053857492)
nebjiamnenderwiggin#668 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857501&viewfull=1#post2053857501)
didistetterC0balt#673 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857506&viewfull=1#post2053857506)

laddsheepsaysmeep#686 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857519&viewfull=1#post2053857519)
laddgemma#710 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857543&viewfull=1#post2053857543)

sheepsaysmeepGemma#715 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857548&viewfull=1#post2053857548)
WisdomGemma#716 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857549&viewfull=1#post2053857549)
Vanta_BlackColonelLubriderm#725 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857558&viewfull=1#post2053857558)
Gemmainsomnia#767 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857600&viewfull=1#post2053857600)
dyacheienderwiggin#792 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857625&viewfull=1#post2053857625)
Gemmatheknightsofneeee#822 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857655&viewfull=1#post2053857655)
ColonelLubridermWisdom#824 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857657&viewfull=1#post2053857657)
didistetterladd#828 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857661&viewfull=1#post2053857661)
MapleGemma#858 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857691&viewfull=1#post2053857691)
JanSunbae#868 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857701&viewfull=1#post2053857701)
grrSunbae#870 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857703&viewfull=1#post2053857703)
grrRaskolnikov#906 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857739&viewfull=1#post2053857739)
insomniaGemma#1005 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857838&viewfull=1#post2053857838)
didistetterSyn#1047 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857880&viewfull=1#post2053857880)
NewcombSyn#1053 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857886&viewfull=1#post2053857886)
ColonelLubridermSyn#1066 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857899&viewfull=1#post2053857899)
dyacheiSyn#1079 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857912&viewfull=1#post2053857912)
didistettertheknightsofneeee#1110 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857943&viewfull=1#post2053857943)
ColonelLubridermRaskolnikov#1112 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857945&viewfull=1#post2053857945)
JanRaskolnikov#1115 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053857948&viewfull=1#post2053857948)
MontMorencyRaskolnikov#1170 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858003&viewfull=1#post2053858003)
GemmaSyn#1173 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858006&viewfull=1#post2053858006)
dyacheisheepsaysmeep#1174 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858007&viewfull=1#post2053858007)
laddsheepsaysmeep#1177 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858010&viewfull=1#post2053858010)

insomniaSyn#1186 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858019&viewfull=1#post2053858019)
theknightsofneeeeSyn#1193 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858026&viewfull=1#post2053858026)
didistetterSyn#1195 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858028&viewfull=1#post2053858028)
MapleRaskolnikov#1196 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858029&viewfull=1#post2053858029)
ArcticSyn#1204 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858037&viewfull=1#post2053858037)
JanGemma#1206 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858039&viewfull=1#post2053858039)
MapleSyn#1207 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858040&viewfull=1#post2053858040)

d2:

VoterVoted forPost

didistetterMaple#1246 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858082&viewfull=1#post2053858082)
nebjiamnEnderwiggin#1272 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858108&viewfull=1#post2053858108)
theknightsofneeeeJan#1278 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858114&viewfull=1#post2053858114)
WisdomVanta_Black#1364 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858200&viewfull=1#post2053858200)
laddMaple#1378 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858214&viewfull=1#post2053858214)
insomnianebjiamn#1467 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858304&viewfull=1#post2053858304)
Gemmanebjiamn#1471 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858308&viewfull=1#post2053858308)
Wisdomnebjiamn#1473 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858310&viewfull=1#post2053858310)
EnderWigginRaskolnikov#1488 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858325&viewfull=1#post2053858325)
DolbyMaple#1506 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858343&viewfull=1#post2053858343)
grrSunbae#1514 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858351&viewfull=1#post2053858351)
didistetterDolby#1522 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858359&viewfull=1#post2053858359)
ColonelLubridermDolby#1559 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858396&viewfull=1#post2053858396)
WisdomGemma#1581 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858418&viewfull=1#post2053858418)
didistetterWisdom#1586 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858423&viewfull=1#post2053858423)
Raskolnikovtheknightsofneeee#1645 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858482&viewfull=1#post2053858482)
grrUnvote#1653 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858490&viewfull=1#post2053858490)
didistetterMaple#1697 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858534&viewfull=1#post2053858534)
didistetterEnderWiggin#1742 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858579&viewfull=1#post2053858579)
DolbyEnderWiggin#1746 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858583&viewfull=1#post2053858583)
ColonelLubriderm EnderWiggin#1753 https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858590&viewfull=1#post2053858590
GemmaMaple#1817 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858655&viewfull=1#post2053858655)
RaskolnikovMaple#1857 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858695&viewfull=1#post2053858695)
nebjiamnRaskolnikov#1873 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858711&viewfull=1#post2053858711)
MapleDolby#1892 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858730&viewfull=1#post2053858730)
didistetterUnvote#1900 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858738&viewfull=1#post2053858738)
laddnebjiamn#1920 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858758&viewfull=1#post2053858758)
dyacheiladd#1929 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858767&viewfull=1#post2053858767)
laddMontmorency#1932 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858770&viewfull=1#post2053858770)
insomnialadd#1945 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858783&viewfull=1#post2053858783)
insomniaMaple#1964 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858802&viewfull=1#post2053858802)
nebjiamnMaple#1981 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858819&viewfull=1#post2053858819)
DolbyWisdom#1991 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858829&viewfull=1#post2053858829)
Montmorencyladd#2003 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858841&viewfull=1#post2053858841)
dyacheiRaskolnikov#2028 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858866&viewfull=1#post2053858866)
DolbyRaskolnikov#2032 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858870&viewfull=1#post2053858870)
didistetterRaskolnikov#2059 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858897&viewfull=1#post2053858897)
Vanta_Blackdyachei#2063 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858901&viewfull=1#post2053858901)
Raskolnikovdyachei#2075 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858913&viewfull=1#post2053858913)
WisdomRaskolnikov#2095 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858933&viewfull=1#post2053858933)
didistetterUnvote#2098 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858936&viewfull=1#post2053858936)
ColonelLubridermWisdom#2109 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858947&viewfull=1#post2053858947)
didistetterSleep#2115 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858953&viewfull=1#post2053858953)
grrRaskolnikov#2121 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858959&viewfull=1#post2053858959)
nebjiamnRaskolnikov#2127 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858965&viewfull=1#post2053858965)
didistetterRaskolnikov#2133 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858971&viewfull=1#post2053858971)
ColonelLubridermRaskolnikov#2141 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858979&viewfull=1#post2053858979)
ColonelLubridermWisdom#2143 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858981&viewfull=1#post2053858981)
DolbyWisdom#2144 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858982&viewfull=1#post2053858982)
MontMorencyWisdom#2147 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858985&viewfull=1#post2053858985)
theknightsofneeeeladd#2164 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053859002&viewfull=1#post2053859002)
MontMorencyladd#2176 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053859014&viewfull=1#post2053859014)
ArcticRaskolnikov#2215 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053859053&viewfull=1#post2053859053)

d3:

VoterVoted forPost

GemmaWisdom#2236 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053859074&viewfull=1#post2053859074)
nebjiamnMaple#2240 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053859078&viewfull=1#post2053859078)
Montmorencyladd#2262 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053859100&viewfull=1#post2053859100)
theknightsofneeeeJan#2292 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053859130&viewfull=1#post2053859130)
DolbyMaple#2301 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053859139&viewfull=1#post2053859139)
insomniaMaple#2303 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053859141&viewfull=1#post2053859141)
dyacheiladd#2316 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053859154&viewfull=1#post2053859154)
GemmaMaple#2317 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053859155&viewfull=1#post2053859155)
DolbyWisdom#2331 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053859169&viewfull=1#post2053859169)
GemmaWisdom#2333 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053859171&viewfull=1#post2053859171)
WisdomSunbae#2417 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053859255&viewfull=1#post2053859255)
Wisdomgrr#2420 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053859258&viewfull=1#post2053859258)
WisdomUnvote#2423 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053859261&viewfull=1#post2053859261)
EnderWigginMaple#2463 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053859301&viewfull=1#post2053859301)
WisdomMaple#2517 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053859355&viewfull=1#post2053859355)
laddWisdom#2581 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053859419&viewfull=1#post2053859419)
DolbyMaple#2582 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053859420&viewfull=1#post2053859420)
grrladd#2585 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053859423&viewfull=1#post2053859423)
grrWisdom#2718 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053859564&viewfull=1#post2053859564)
EnderwigginWisdom#2733 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053859579&viewfull=1#post2053859579)
nebjiamnWisdom#2822 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053859669&viewfull=1#post2053859669)
dyacheiWisdom#2825 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053859672&viewfull=1#post2053859672)
grrladd#2854 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053859701&viewfull=1#post2053859701)
JanWisdom#2855 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053859702&viewfull=1#post2053859702)
Sunbaenebjiamn#2856 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053859703&viewfull=1#post2053859703)
DolbyLadd#2858 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053859705&viewfull=1#post2053859705)
theknightsofneeeeLadd#2874 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053859723&viewfull=1#post2053859723)
Vanta_BlackMaple#2877 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053859726&viewfull=1#post2053859726)
Vanta_BlackUnvote#2887 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053859736&viewfull=1#post2053859736)
Vanta_BlackWisdom#2894 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053859743&viewfull=1#post2053859743)
dyacheiladd#2903 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053859752&viewfull=1#post2053859752)
Vanta_Blackladd#2944 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053859793&viewfull=1#post2053859793)
nebjiamnLadd#2946 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053859795&viewfull=1#post2053859795)

(if everyone can search if their own vote is on would probs easiest check to see if there are errors you can ping me with it if there is one if u want)

grr

08-15-2024, 15:54

Vote: Dolby

Sorry for the rand friendo.

I think Wisdom/Gemma/Sunbae/Maaaaaybe Maple (And me ofc) look good off the spew.

Also Dya but tbh that's just a given at this point lel.

Dolby/Knights/Monty are probably the ones I feel worse about most.

And now I sleep. My 1 job of spew reading is done. =P

Currently respecting ladds read on there but I would like people who TR dolby explain it to me, cuz i genuinely never got it except grasping a few people saying "posts good" insomnia

dyachei

grr
Gemma - only consider if knights is not w and if the following lunches are wrong

dolby
ender

Vantablack

these are prob my reads in the people that i've actually read posts from. i didn't analyse carefully so im waiting for opinions on which one is too high and for what reasons

we're likely killing wisdom today. i wish we don't flashwagon yet again. frankly im kinda upset with the outcome of things
.

Gemma

08-15-2024, 15:58

villagers are
dya
insom
grr
dolby
maple

maple's there bc im willing to hold the read for jan

dolby voters should have more to say imo to justify a wagon on the slot

grr

08-15-2024, 15:59

V
grr
ender
gemma

v lean
sunbae
mont
insom
vanta

POE
Dolby
knights
wisdom

If i'm wrong it's in my v leans and probably insom having a good game or mont

I might be in a soft difference check with mont cuz of d1 wagons (otherwise Rask wagon pure or something). I just kind of liked his posts vibe wise. Dolby I personally agree with. knights i dont see, but maybe its just cuz his posts are making me laugh, i didnt give it much consideration. top tier i am fine with.

umm, maybe I will have more interesting thoughts later in the day it's just my GTH vibes (would but gemma over ender now cause ladd seemed to feel pretty strong about it but that's about it).

Gemma

08-15-2024, 16:01

i think ben pushed ender a lot if they're partners. so i tend to think unaligned

i need a live player list

its in op

grr

08-15-2024, 16:10

Me: cases ladd town, votes benneh
Thread: OVER IN NARNIA OVER THERE WHO KNOWS WHAT HES DOING

so let me ask you sunbae. why did you go for a meaningless 1 naked vote wagon on benneh when you have been town casing ladd, instead of you know actually helping ladd and voting the player that ladd was convinced was mafia.

because unironically some of your posts (like this one) read to me like u are wolfcasing yourself.

Maple

08-15-2024, 16:13

Look, if yall don't believe me, at least believe *Jan* who believed in me. I'm most likely dying in the night after dya.

I am concerned that *everyone* is coming together to kill wisdom here, and it's actually fuckin annoying cause at minimum 3 villagers killed ladd yesterday and wisdom should be solved already, but all the same it's entirely plausible that the last 1-2 wolves could bus wisdom and try to go for a f5/3 win.

Maple

08-15-2024, 16:15

villagers are
dya
insom
grr
dolby
maple

maple's there bc im willing to hold the read for jan

dolby voters should have more to say imo to justify a wagon on the slot

Im not gonna lie dolby's guilt is so self-evident to me that it's hard to put to words lmao

i recognize that this is a bad sign

grr

08-15-2024, 16:16

Maple

08-15-2024, 16:23

grr

08-15-2024, 16:24

dyachei

08-15-2024, 16:26

Is this your only reason cuz its probably gonna take a horse to drag me off wisdom. thing of note is that benneh was very well aware of wisdoms fakeclaim in the 12/12er on MU, so my question is why didnt he bring it up the day before already to shade her. Don't know how much of a powerwolf benneh is but that was my initial reaction to it and he didnt mention until I did. (and I'm also not sure I understand WHAT you are seeing in that post).

Benneh probably mostly powerwolfed this game. He's been known to bus too but I think he powerwolfs a lot

Dolby

08-15-2024, 16:26

kinda just not feeling good about monty atm

Maple

08-15-2024, 16:27

dyachei

why mont v? im pretty back and forth on the slot. the ladd stuff gives me the most concern at the moment. seems plausibly teamed with other slots in the poe

grr

08-15-2024, 16:29

jan and ben being the only two kills in the night make that possibility pretty nonsensical, given wolf!me just kills jan and we use our factional elsewhere

in that scenario, the medic heal would be fake and/or we just never stack w/ him on dya

That is assuming the wolves had 2 kills available in that night and the doc actually did save dyachei? Not sure why they wouldn't just have one.

Gemma

08-15-2024, 16:30

Vote: Knights

Maple

08-15-2024, 16:32

That is assuming the wolves had 2 kills available in that night and the doc actually did save dyachei? Not sure why they wouldn't just have one.

No, I *personally* had the ability to just kill Jan last night. In the world where I'm a wolf, that means we had at least 2 kp available.

Dolby

08-15-2024, 16:35

No, I *personally* had the ability to just kill Jan last night. In the world where I'm a wolf, that means we had at least 2 kp available.

you'd have been blocked in jail tho man? Think your one shot PGO wouldn't have been usable
EnderWiggin I think to get to wisdom spewed from Benneh that doesn't cover it. I feel that the first thing with Benneh talking to me does look good from Wisdom but I was clearing Wisdom for bad reasons since I was still catching up with the thread at the time, and it would have potentially been bad long term to use that to clear wisdom when I don't think Wisdom was a major push at that exact point in time?

Straight up disagree with the post advocating voting out wisdom and exeing Maple. Thread was clearly moving towards a wisdom lead at that time and there's some hedgy language in that despite that leads me to think that he didn't want to actually go there

Dolby

08-15-2024, 16:40

ftr monty repeating "we must yeet wisdom so gemma clear is lock clear" all through his iso like he's practicing voodoo gives me the creeps
also really weird when he doesn't vote wisdom

insomnia

08-15-2024, 16:43

Dolby

08-15-2024, 16:46

we don't know if he believed you

could gotten rb'd for all we know

tbh I can fully believe that Jan didn't exe Maple. When Jan was saying he was gonna jail Maple my internal thought process at the time were basically "he isn't gonna exe him if he gets a card". Especially plausible given ladd flipped green

but I'm not gonna harp on it to hard unless maple becomes a wagon

grr

08-15-2024, 16:50

Dolby

08-15-2024, 16:56

Bullet points, wisdom has:

* OMGUS pushed back against bop d1
* OMGUS pushed ladd, and also not actually engaged ladd critically with that. she asked him exactly 0 questions for his reasonings when he sussed her.
* pushed extremely widely townread player didistetter
* pushed extremely widely townread player grr

Sometimes villas have an offgame and have very out of field takes but this an extremely inaccurate gameview and also very plausible to be a way to reduce spew to a minimum (mostly sus people where it doesnt generate additional info for town when you flip wolf). Also dead villas all had her in the bottom of their reads. she was also a CW to ladd.

It's just where I'm at you don't have to agree. Cya later.

here's another thing

I think there's a world where Wisdom's scumreads this game have 0 wolves

D2 they have me/Gemma/Vanta. I know I'm town, I think Gemma is town. I think that Vanta's EOD is kinda unpairred from Benneh in the sense of why do that as a wolf and I think that they were a villager setting up for that switch in the last hour tbh (wheras Benneh's was pure opportunism)

EOD3 they have Vanta, ladd, gemma, and maple. Don't need to write anything more on this except for maple, and it's just I think Jan got the card (also think in retro them getting on Maple was opportunistic but at the same time was a bit disconnected from the thread which is a good look). Jan also claimed that Maple would be cut off from wolf chat so I think that Maple is bringing Jan's real thoughts to the thread which is a town point.

During d3 they were also pushing Monte a bit and tbh I think Monte does look a good amount worse now but I don't think Im going for him today

Sunbae

08-15-2024, 17:06

so let me ask you sunbae. why did you go for a meaningless 1 naked vote wagon on benneh when you have been town casing ladd, instead of you know actually helping ladd and voting the player that ladd was convinced was mafia.

because unironically some of your posts (like this one) read to me like u are wolfcasing yourself.

because i was specifically and directly told that we were killing wisdom and jailing maple, that i was not needed for the day, and to go rest up?

and then i voted my best wolf read on the way out?

like come on you have to be actively attempting to twist things around to try and wolf read me if this is where youre at

grr

08-15-2024, 17:06

insomnia

08-15-2024, 17:12

tbh I can fully believe that Jan didn't exe Maple. When Jan was saying he was gonna jail Maple my internal thought process at the time were basically "he isn't gonna exe him if he gets a card". Especially plausible given ladd flipped green

but I'm not gonna harp on it to hard unless maple becomes a wagon

jan explicitly said he'd exe him

Sunbae

08-15-2024, 17:17

So I spent the night thinking about it and I think I have to operate under the assumption that it's possible Benneh didn't know the wolves after the lost wolf goon signal. Not necessarily certain, but it also explains a bit why he'd basically be spinning wheels in the middle ground and keeping a relatively low profile without pushing anyone overly hard. Which means I don't want to give any villager points from Benneh spew to people.

which is fine, we can just ignore the bullshit and just focus on people posting woofy to solve.

I do still think the wolves certainly knew benneh in this case after the signal so I do want to still read into spew in that direction.

Sunbae

08-15-2024, 17:34

Players Votes

Raskolnikov 3 (grr, ColonelLubriderm, Jan)
Theknightsofneeee 3 (EnderWiggin, Raskolnikov, Didistetter)
Gemma 2 (sheepsaysmeep, Wisdom)
sheepsaysmeep 3 (Syn, dyachei, Ladd)
Syn 3 (insomnia, Newcomb, Gemma)
EnderWiggin 1 (nebjiamn)
Jan 1 (Theknightsofneeee)
ColonelLubriderm 1 (Vanta Black)

whatthistextdo

EOD1 late:

I've been rereading Insomnia and want to shore up that read a bit.

I floated the idea last game day of Insom's eod1 making sense in a Insom/Gemma/Benneh/Syn world. With Insom shading Ladd for pushing Gemma, shading Knights over Gemma because "knights wants to live more", and then hopping on Syn without reading posts. However, I do not think this the case anymore despite the Benneh flip. In this world now, Insomnia would have to be pretty much bussing the entire team. I say this because if I rewind back to a bit before eod1 Insomnia WAS voting Gemma (it even sparks a discussion with Ladd about "spooky votes on Gemma"), then voted Syn, and now I know he opens up day 2 by voting Benneh. So in this scenario, Insomnia would need to be bussing the entire team yet not be leveraging it into killing any villagers or getting the obvious credit (hadn't read any of syns posts, etc, says "voting people you dont remember anything of" when voting benneh).

I also note that killed villagers had Insom as a strong villager too.

I look at this vote count from when Insom voted Syn and there are plenty of opportunities to vote a villager and instead he lands on Syn in a "haven't read their posts lmao" way.

So I think Insom is just a villager?

Sunbae

08-15-2024, 17:42

I have one post after this i think, maybe 2 but definitely 1.

Claims in order of townyness from my PoV

Rasko- vig who killed sheep
Jan- PR
ender-something that targetted stet
wisdom-firefighter
maple-self PGO?

vvvv(o wolves)
Rasko

vvv(0-1 wolves)
stet
insomnia

vv(0-1 wolf)
dya
grr

v(1-2 wolves)
arctic
jan
vanta
gemma
knights

/shrug(1-3 wolves)
ladd
mont
dolby
maple
sunbae
benneh

w(0-2 wolves)
ender
wisdom

WRT maple- i didnt read his last couple posts before my last post so i didnt realize he PGO himself. I dont know how that is self resolving, but fuck it we can give it a day

I was looking at the wagons from eod 1 and there is a point where its

I feel like gemma/knights fell into the tonal abyss today after getting a pass from the majority of the thread; not feeling great about that. If ender is a wolf i wouldnt worry about knights. If ender is a villa then that opens up the world where knights is a wolf PR better than syn but thats a reach.

I find it kind of weird that arctic seemed to be around for the EoD but never really pparticipated when we had such close wagons, when i looked at Visor's iso for votecounts, they dont show up until the last one as one of the last minute votes. In the last 15 minutes main wagons were moving and changing but arctic doesnt vote until the pile on in the last minute. I think thats kind of a bad look if it is true they were in fact around with all the wagon changes and not commiting to anything votewise

I think the least believable claims are wisdom/maple but i wouldnt kill maple til tomorrow; he says he can self resolve, i dont think he can self resolve but i dont think it hurts us killing him tomorrow instead of today in the weird chance that he can clear himself. I wouldnt berate you for going there today though

If you want to go outside the claims, i'd go somewhere in dolby/benneh/ladd/sunbae. I would probably go sunbae

I think I'd vote out wisdom if we are to go inside the claims. The day 1 reads of jan/ender didn't make sense to me and the claim today feels meh.

my heart say go wisdom so thats where i'll vote for now

Vote: Wisdom

I think wisdom because there is no way we can confirm that role and it will always just be a question we have. Even if we can surmise there is an arsonist, it still wouldnt clear wisdom.

I believe i have two posts left and im going to save them for the eod.

PSPSPSPSPSPSPSPSPSPS

I was about to post this and i saw the dya/rask threadvelopment. The correct thing to do is to do nothing. I think if they are not v/v then rask is always the wolf. Dya is under no pressure to claim and if i understand them correctly there is some reason where rask can't be the sheep shooter. Rask still has a shot so if he's a villa you just let him shoot the wolf!dya. EZ PZ.

I'd go wisdom still because they work as a wolf regardless of how the claimbattle turns out and they have one of the weaker claims.

Vote: Wisdom

guess i'm just gonna use this time to talk about some other things

i don't like wisdom's post about the situation regardless of what rask is (i think dya is town either way imo, claim matches too well with what they've been crumbing previously + no real reason to claim here). it feels like TMI that rask is a wolf here, or even if he isn't the lack of real consideration about what's going on doesn't feel great

i haven't spoken about grr yet today but i want it known that i am +1'ing all of the lock town meta reads on him - he is a much more binary player as a wolf and it would be a lot more obvious. he isn't really capable of replicating the back and forth he's had over his reads and his doubt/paranoia on stuff. i can't describe it very well and these all feel like buzzwords, but he is a pretty idiosyncratic player and the way he's been parsing this game particularly with the frustration over being ignored on the newcomb push + his indignation in interactions with rask today are just from town him. i would not reconsider this read until lylo

insomnia's posts are also just too good, even if ladd is town i don't care i just feel like he's been the only person in the group of "strong players" who's been seriously getting his hands dirty and actually parsing that group, would maybe reconsider like the day before lylo but i doubt it. same applies to stett, she has a particular way of questioning people as town where i can tell she cares about the response and her follow ups have been proof of this

i'm actually less sure on ladd being a wolf now that i think wisdom is probably a wolf which is ironic given the earlier sentiment expressed, but ladd was the first person to call out wisdom's claim as probably fake iirc so it's worth thinking about. i would expect at least one between them though

i was going to say that after colonel's post transcripting the neighborhood chat i would have locked him as town but learning that was all fake kind of gave me whiplash and also scares me a little in terms of implications for how good his wolfgame is knowing he can fake all that. i haven't had many other thoughts on his posts today. i'd re-visit him like.. tomorrow, honestly? maybe the day after

sunbae i am kinda townreading cuz i honestly just believe the unconvincing self-meta wall. like they expected it to be not convincing if they are a wolf. when i'm town i have a habit of doing the same thing and just posting it anyway because i know it's true, and i don't bother so much when i'm a wolf. i also don't really feel like they have an agenda and the restless urge to do something that strong wolf players have tends to be pretty hard to ignore, and that's what he's done this game if he is a wolf. i find it much easier to just be happy about doing nothing when i'm town than when i'm a wolf, most people probably know this feeling too. is this gonna stop you guys killing him later - probably not, and i don't expect it to either, so this one is more of a hero townread that i fully expect you guys to ignore

montmorency actually, uh, yeah still no clue honestly. i find his posting very null. i've seen the arguments about his eod1 seeming uninformed and there seems to be some meta involved which i nodded along to, but i think this may need to be reconsidered if rask is a wolf too

benneh i think kinda falls into a similar place to sunbae for me (quite unhelpful, i know) but i don't really think the way he's playing is super sustainable as a wolf? i know that like, no one is really trying to kill him but going back to the restless urge thing, it seems like if he is a wolf he's perfectly happy about just letting villagers clear each other which is inevitably going to result in his untimely boxing in. dunno. i think he's had fine posts today, i don't agree with the ender push but i think his last push on rask seemed the most grounded thing presented today. i'm running out of people to call a wolf though so uhm i guess he's just a wolf anyway. rip!

think i've more or less spoken about everyone else

i have found knights and gemma distinctly unimpressive today (moreso knights, i still believe gemma is spewed) but if we keep missing killing people who aren't either of these two, the world where all of the wagons on day 1 were wolves is worth considering, because wolves stacking on syn there is like, pretty a pretty reasonable explanation for things. so re-visit them if the above people keep flipping town i guess

but as it stands my poe would probably be

jan (replace with colonel if rask is wolf)
dolby
mont
vanta
benneh
ladd
maple
wisdom
rask

sap, here is where I am at. Only time I will be able to post from a pc today probably

v
ladd
insomnia
grr
jan
dya
gemma
dolby

I am pretty confident the above has 0 wolves, dont really care to go into detail on any of them rigth now cause I am short of time but dont touch them until lylo.

the rest
maple
wisdom
ender
vanta
monty
knights
benneh
sunbae

my FEELING without reading back is that vanta/monti are probably villagers but it's also hard to fully clear them with confidence

Of the 2 i think monti has the more tangible reasons to actually be cleared, it feels like he is in his own little word in a villagery way when he is around

I also think vanta is probably spewed v by wisdom w

Sunbae has been saying all the right things today, in the sense that i have agreed with 99% of the things he said. My only problem is that I just cant find any reason why it cannot be just a wolvf spinning his wheels? Like I read dolby solving and think he is an obvious villager, I sadly just dont get the same feeling from sunbae posts but if someone pointed a gun to my head I would say they are a villager

Knights's posting just isnt cutting it with me, sorry. I think his push on Jan should have been revaluated a while ago and I really dont find anything he has said this game villagery, the issues I had with him d1 are all still there. In the end if he is a wolf who decided to buss at eod1 his posting would look pretty much exactly like this

Gonna talk about benneh cause it ties into my knights read well enuf since knights/benneh is a thing I have been strongly considering in my mind from like early d1. I have been unfair to benneh this game and for that sorry, I know i have been lazy as fuck in actually reading you. I think their bottom 4 being 3 pr claims+1 me isnt a great sign and i think the way he is pushing maple today is a bit sueperficial but more importantly I just cant really find villa benneh after 3 days which is pretty unsual.

And then we have the 3 PR claims:

ender - i want him to claim for clarity cause he has been softing giving stett somethign and that seems to kinda counterclaim maple but he has been vague about it. Idk I just feel there is so much pr claims+he is in the POE where I dont see any reasong for him not to claim. Gth think villa but want claim. Not w/w with benneh

maple - i'll be real, the only thing I dislike with manti wrt the claim is that they said they were self confirmable yesterday which isnt exactly true even if someone got the card since apparentely manti does nto know what the cards do? I think arctic was an ok target given how many PR claims were around

wisdom - i am sad but i think they are just a wolf. Their firefighter claim mechanically just doesnt make sense to me, I have seen them claim early as a wolf before, their d2 was pretty bad and i thought their vanta push on d2 in particular felt super lazy from them. I just think from d2 on they have missed the SPARK. I also dont like they they have been leaning on their softs as a way to make their claim more villagery- the truth is that most villagers dont actually care to soft. If it helps bop also wanted them dead before dying

im also just going to listen to the dead vilalgers and call grr lock town and blame them if wrong, cause thats 3 of them feeling very strong about grr

Sunbae

08-15-2024, 17:49

So it's day 4 and I think it's usually a great idea to reset once you hit the midgame and just methodically go through the player list and reevaluate all of your reads. Just a good way to not get locked in and cover all the bases. So I'm going to do that.

Villagers

Sunbae (thats me!)
Dyachei (vig, pew pew)
Grr (locked in by like every dead villager)
Insom (voted syn d1, voted benneh to open day 2, called villager strongly by Arctic and Ladd and Bop)

Leaves me a pool to work from of:
Vanta
Gemma
Ender
Wisdom
Maple
Mont
Knights
Dolby

So I'm going to continue working through this list today. It's not finished obviously, just working through the process and figured it'd be more fun to show the process than just post a list at the end. I think I have to work from that villager list being pure.

Sunbae

08-15-2024, 17:51

Hi stett!

Where did you see me play?

I am not a great scumhunter, and I don't think I have a typical approach. Kinda vibey, and I have had some good streaks where I identified scum but I'm not very persuasive at getting them voted. A lot of it is "gut feeling thisi player is town, will follow their vote," but I'm pretty strict about not voting my townreads no matter what.

Do not expect any walls from me. If I'm still here by D4 I will probably come up with a very outlandish theory to explain the game.

Vanta Black

I am ready for the very outlandish theory :help:

insomnia

08-15-2024, 17:53

Sunbae

08-15-2024, 17:54

Well I am going to bed now, I had a meeting earlier tonight and it used up most of my brain. But I'm saying this for tomorrow, I thought Gemma's vote on syn was a little skeevy. I have got a note that says she had a town lean on him earlier, if I can read my writing. I want to iso her and see how this happened because I also think she had early townlean on TKON and also put a vote on him. You all can read this as light suss on Gemma. I can't prove nothin' though.

Toan villagey
Content hmphy
Which wins out

Sunbae

08-15-2024, 18:02

A small note:

I do not think Knights and Gemma are paired based on eod1. Knight's responses to Gemma and Gemma voting Knights before they all pivot to Syn just doesn't strike me as paired. It's the way that Knights shades Gemma and eventually has the "do you really think I'm wolfier than (someone I forget) or syn?" post that Gemma says "no not really" or something similar before moving off. There would also be insane amounts of bussing here?

I also do not think Gemma and Wisdom are paired. But I think the threads been hammering that one so I won't explain it further.

Sunbae

08-15-2024, 18:27

Vanta,

that post says you have been making notes on players. Could you share where your heads at with different people?

Sunbae

08-15-2024, 18:40

Also, if you're wondering why I'm so concerned about the lost wolf signal from Benneh:

If benneh is a pack wolf then I think I can clear Wisdom and Ender from the way Benneh talked about them. Wisdom was an early defense with an overly long explanation post and then went after Wisdom later when possible. Then with Ender Benneh jumped on my early suspicion which is not how he'd treat a teammate or anything.

The issue is I don't know if I can actually do that. Which is why I'm quite annoyed at the signal post (good post Benneh).

Wisdom

08-15-2024, 18:40

dyachei

08-15-2024, 18:41

dyachei

why mont v? im pretty back and forth on the slot. the ladd stuff gives me the most concern at the moment. seems plausibly teamed with other slots in the poe

it's just that he's upper POE to me. I think his defense of rask is weird if he's a wolf tbh but it wouldnt have really ended up with a wolf dead if he got his way, either so he could be white knighting

Sunbae

08-15-2024, 18:41

villagers are
dya
insom
grr
dolby
maple

maple's there bc im willing to hold the read for jan

dolby voters should have more to say imo to justify a wagon on the slot

Gemma, can you town case Dolby for me? It would help me out a lot because I'm not entirely sure there.

Sunbae

08-15-2024, 18:45

it's just that he's upper POE to me. I think his defense of rask is weird if he's a wolf tbh but it wouldnt have really ended up with a wolf dead if he got his way, either so he could be white knighting

My current take on Mont is that:

- their eod1 of unvoting Rask (a villager to a wolf) while Syn is starting to get wagoned
- their eod2 of claiming lovers with Rask (a villager to a wolf) to try and save Rask as the last moment
- their day 3 posting including their insistence that wisdom is the best kill to solve to gemma reads towny to me (in that "a villager thinks something, repeats it a bunch, nobody else is really thinking that way but they truly believe it so they dont care and keep repeating it)

has me leaning villager but I can't lock it in without first exploring how the Ladd vote came about closer and not really having a huge "this person is clear" certainty moment

Sunbae

08-15-2024, 18:47

uh, im reading through enders iso and its quite villagery?

Maple

08-15-2024, 18:48

Headache day

Vote:Maple This is still a wolf, but I'm guessing not arsonist. I'm not really sure who the other ones are, not confident that Gemma's wolfing right now.

Dya/Dolby/Grr/Insomnia all town I think. So 1-2 wolves in [Sunbae Knights Ender Vanta Gemma]. Gut still says Vanta/Gemma but I dunno.

There is 0 way I go over, over you. If you want to not die today, try someone else. If you try pushing me, you are just going to die pathetically.

If you are village, I implore you to push someone else, even if you genuinely believe I'm a wolf because this just seals your fate.

dyachei

08-15-2024, 18:53

uh, im reading through enders iso and its quite villagery?

with his interactions with ender I feel pretty sure ender is v here

Sunbae

08-15-2024, 18:57

with his interactions with ender I feel pretty sure ender is v here

Im a bit disappointed that Ender and I have just been sending smoke signals back and forth this game cause its always fun to vibe with him :(

Can I get your thoughts on my "oh no, Benneh posted a lost wolf signal and now I don't know if I can read into his thoughts on Wisdom?" thing cause I'm kind of hung up on it and backburnering a Wisdom iso until later this game day because of it.

dyachei

08-15-2024, 19:00

Im a bit disappointed that Ender and I have just been sending smoke signals back and forth this game cause its always fun to vibe with him :(

Can I get your thoughts on my "oh no, Benneh posted a lost wolf signal and now I don't know if I can read into his thoughts on Wisdom?" thing cause I'm kind of hung up on it and backburnering a Wisdom iso until later this game day because of it.

can you quote the post I dont quite know what you mean

Sunbae

08-15-2024, 19:02

I'm gonna be honest here: I've just been ignoring the wisdom/maple claim stuff and will just be trying to solve people by their postings.

like, i can't know for sure if Jan was roleblocked or spared maple and I feel like theres enough info in the thread to not bank the game on guessing which one is which you know?

and i think "just focus on the people not being villagery" has been working out (syn/rask/benneh) and should continue working today if we go through the game and solve

I like my town core posted above and think we can probably expand it if we work together. Im close to putting ender in it (side note: a inverter and a booster seems weird to both be villa but again, not gonna focus on that too much I just wanna mention it)

Outside of Dya/Insom/Grr who is everyones "i will bet the game on them being a villager" read?

Sunbae

08-15-2024, 19:03

i mean, i was actively encouraging him to go on...

sick lost mafia goon soft, ty [ glow] tags

here dya

Sunbae

08-15-2024, 19:25

I expect Wisdom, Ender, and Maple to all come in pushing me and/or Monty

Big question for me for how I view EOD is 1. Is Rask a killing or jester role. I think almost certainly a SK variant. In that case I actually really like Gemma’s EoD. Mafia have probably clocked that Rask is SK by that point and I don’t think that Gemma would be saying that they were saying about the claims then. Same applies to a way lesser extent to Monty. I kind of don’t like Vantas vote on Dya looking at it in retrospect bc like, any town should recognize that Rask looks worse but I also think that Vanta was kinda disconnected from the thread in that moment so it’s probably fine

I think Ender can turn it around but bro is probs wolfing, more at 11

Can you elaborate on this "wolves clocked Rask is SK" line?

Sunbae

08-15-2024, 19:26

how do we know wolves carry? i checked op and dont see it am i blind

If Benneh is a pack wolf I'd lock clear Gemma for this post fdksgjldghdk

Sunbae

08-15-2024, 19:28

he's now sexier

:whip:

lmao

i kinda kept missing it in real time but rereading, gemma's posts are hilarious <3

dyachei

08-15-2024, 19:35

Idk what to make of that but Ben makes lost wolf jokes all the time so...

Gemma is my next lock town sunbae

insomnia

08-15-2024, 19:46

Sunbae

08-15-2024, 19:58

Idk what to make of that but Ben makes lost wolf jokes all the time so...

Gemma is my next lock town sunbae

Fair. Maybe I just want it to be true so I can convince myself my day one read was wrong for the right reasons :clown:

Sunbae

08-15-2024, 20:02

ok dya/insom

Lets say we add Gemma/Ender

Sunbae
dya
Grr
Insom

Gemma
Ender

Leaves us with:
Vanta
Wisdom
Maple
Mont
Knights
Dolby

Do we have any unpairings in this six?

I've been operating under the assumption that its 4 wolves + sk vs 16 villagers (so 11/2). I suppose maybe 5 isnt out of the realm of possibility so 9/3 in that case.

grr

08-15-2024, 20:57

Ok I read a bit more.

Vote: Wisdom

I will jail Maple and you can assume I will execute.

We will have a night talk of course but this is where I stand right now and big things need to happen for that to change. (actual hard confirmation that the village can comprehend even if I die).
dyachei or anyone that isn't maple.

Has this happened? do we have the "actual hard confirmation that we can comprehend?" I personally don't but I might be missing something I'm not very experienced with complicated mech stuff?

If not just blast Maple because he should just be outed by him saying Jan actually spared him (I could see a world where Maple is villa and wolves RBed Jan to spew Maple wolf Ig but this by Maple's own word hasn't happened and Jan explicitly changed his mind which I don't think he'd do because that'd mean he went back by his word and he seems very careful about it so I assume he wouldn't.)

There might be a world where both are wolves and maybe its better to kill wisdom first but Maple should be literally outed and so ya know.

insomnia

08-15-2024, 20:59

grr

08-15-2024, 21:01

By what I read by Jan I don't see how Maple above there can not be an outed wolf here ngl? would be super unsound mech play by Jan that I do not get at all?!? his intentions were stated clearly.

insomnia

08-15-2024, 21:04

yeah, i heavily doubt jan is the type to take back his word to the thread

there's only like 2-3 people i can think of that would do that in the entire database

if we choose to follow this route, then maple is outed because he said jan told him he'd spare him, which wouldn't have happened

if maple is a wolf then it's p much confirmed the wolves have a RBer

also i think if you look deeper, there's a post of jan's saying it's good to jail maple and exe him because if manti is legit, he gets manti's item anyway, so no downside to not executing him

but idk, if i were in jan's shoes (or anyone that would have had his role), after the ladd flashwagon it would've made me even more convinced of just exeing manti /shrug

grr

08-15-2024, 21:04

Wisdom is still reasonable PoE imo blast them both. don't wagon anyone else up. 10 pm and i decided to be kind to myself going forward wrt to playing mafia in general so im calling it quits for today even if i'll probably read a long a bit. gn.

insomnia

08-15-2024, 21:04

if manti is a wolf i actually did p good this game

think i made a post yesterday saying the votes should be benneh or maple

Wisdom

08-15-2024, 21:05

I’m pondering it but why

also thoughts on maple, sunbae, Gemm?

Lol if Benneh just outted his whole team here

grr

08-15-2024, 21:07

grr

08-15-2024, 21:08

I hate only having one vote we need to change mafia game rules to everyone having 2 votes. ok gn for real lmfao.

Wisdom

08-15-2024, 21:11

Vanta seems to have ~similar reads to me which I hope is good, couldn’t find anything else in his iso worth noticing, but he's generally less stilted than I remember him being in his wolf champs game.

Maybe he's just town. Sorry to be late on that train.

Wisdom

08-15-2024, 21:14

ig problem is with wisdom and maple being two wolves then benneh outing to kill ladd is p much game losing so idk whats up with that but feels very unlikely.

anyhow kill them both listen to dya or something idfk lmaoooo

Vote: Wisdom
Vote: Maple

cya.

If Maple is town then wowee. Maybe Benneh wanted to make sure I died before another ignite, since that would ~clear me.

Sunbae

08-15-2024, 21:29

Who did maple target n1 again?

Sunbae

08-15-2024, 21:29

grr

08-15-2024, 21:30

If Maple is town then wowee. Maybe Benneh wanted to make sure I died before another ignite, since that would ~clear me.

why are u even saying this. you repped a confident wolfread some posts ago so I kinda thought you would have reasons for being confident and now u go like "if maple is town"

jfc.

Vote: Maple
Vote: Wisdom

ok i need to force myself away from here now otherwise i will be flipflopping for the next few hours. Consider me undecided but no one else should be the elimination today that's nonsense lol.

Sunbae

08-15-2024, 21:34

why are u even saying this. you repped a confident wolfread some posts ago so I kinda thought you would have reasons for being confident and now u go like "if maple is town"

jfc.

Vote: Maple
Vote: Wisdom

ok i need to force myself away from here now otherwise i will be flipflopping for the next few hours. Consider me undecided but no one else should be the elimination today that's nonsense lol.

Idk Grr, there's a non zero chance after my reread is finished (though itill have to be overnight/early tomorrow, about to go to a baseball game!) that I want to go elsewhere.

Sunbae

08-15-2024, 21:36

Wisdom

08-15-2024, 21:37

I will vote Wisdom if ladd dies tonight. (I will also vote Maple if ladd dies tonight.)

If you want to solve Gemma, the priority should be flipping Wisdom.

Monte works quite well in a Maple/Gemma team tbh. So maybe the team is Maple/Gemma/Monte

Wisdom

08-15-2024, 21:38

I will vote Wisdom if ladd dies tonight. (I will also vote Maple if ladd dies tonight.)

If you want to solve Gemma, the priority should be flipping Wisdom.

Can someone compile the following information into one post for me:

Maples claim
Maples d1 target
Maples d2 target
Maples d3 target

Enders claim
Enders d1 target
Enders d2 target
Enders d3 target

Wisdoms claim
Wisdoms d1 target
Wisdoms d2 target
Wisdoms d3 target

I don't want to get too bogged down in mechanics over posting but I do want that info in one easily accessible place to understand things as clearly as i can

N1 Stett
N2 Colonel
N3 out of shots, only had 2

Sunbae

08-15-2024, 21:39

I've got reasons to believe Sheep was killed by town btw

Could you remind me what this was about Wisdom?

Wisdom

08-15-2024, 21:45

Could you remind me what this was about Wisdom?

I expected wolves to have an arson (still kinda do) and unlikely to have other kp (which still seems to be the case, if the both doused and ignited n2). Hence Sheep, who was also sussed by most d1, was more likely to be a town kill.

Sunbae

08-15-2024, 21:47

I kinda forgot Benneh exists. He's been out of my scope most of the game. (So have Insomnia tho, but wagons are fun)

Vote: Neb

I do think him being busy is genuine and NAI though but I don't mind pushing him a bit.

I forgot about both Mont existing when I wrote that. Ben too, really, but it wouldn't have changed my point.

While it's not worth much, I thought that Benneh in a few bursts of posts (214 to 376 in his iso) varied shitposting with solving in a way that I associate with town PoV, but it's not worth much and doubt it's towny for him specifically.

Maple is mostly a bs read. I liked his talk about getting reversed but when Jan started talking about it I kinda changed my mind, doing mech stuff to mislead is exactly what I expect from w!Maple.

Sunbae just sounds pure.

Ah that's how I phrased it, makes sense!

Yeah right now I'd say...

Top town
Colonel
Jan
Rask

Leaning town
Ender
Ladd

Probably also town
Arctic
Dya
Insomnia
Stett

Null
Benneh
Knights
Maple
Monte (I still can't recall 1 post from him and always forgets he exists)
Sunbae

Wolf lean
Dolby
Gemma
Vanta

Ok read Monte's iso he's still null.

Vote: Gemma

Dolby is mostly a PoE slot right now.

Gemma isn't doing much with her time in thread and it doesn't seem like she have more thoughts than she's sharing if you know what I mean with that.

But also a bit of vanity because I wanna see if I hit a wolf d1 and that'd probably clear me

That I'm not super familiar with Gemma or Vanta but I still think they both have wolf equity (unlikely w/w tho). Are you familiar with them?

just pulling some wisdom posts dont mind me

Wisdom

08-15-2024, 21:49

It ain't much but my streak of locking a town correctly d1 continues. Hopefully the streak of ending the d1 cote on a wolf as well.

I'm sad I didn't mason more with Jan!</3

Sunbae

08-15-2024, 22:06

Opening thread before falling asleep was a mistake.

I voted Gemma because I think she’s the most likely to be a wolf. I tried pushing Vanta and Ben before that but exactly 0 things happened so I went back to Gemma.

My PoE is largely the same because I believe in them, the way I solve is getting a PoE through finding town reads then finding things that people in my PoE has done that's town indicative (like Bop) and checking whom I've called town for bad reasons (like Vanta). There are some slots that I've got a lot of experience with and have no clue how to read, so instead I listen to what others says about them and try to form an opinion based on that (like Insomnia).

And then there is you and this is a me problem but you have no idea how hard I analyzed your play in sf1 last year and that is now how I expect you to play as town, which of course isn't fair. It's just bugging me that you blatantly said in your first post that you're not going to play like that and that exact move is what I expect w!you to do. But I recognize that pretty much everyone else town reads you, you solve in a towny way and you have oomph and is probably thread spewed town, so I have no reason to sus you unless you're alive in lategame. I kinda expected you to be nk'd. It still bugs my head though, I'm looking the Stett that went completely bananas in her mission to solve the game every single day and she simply isn't here ^^

But I mean, I'm obviously not playing my all-in game here either. I've mostly been on phone (which I avoid in Champs games if I can) and I struggle to connect with games where most action happens in my sleep and since I can't be here at EoD I can't really influence who dies (or save myself, hence I've been misyeeted on every Org game I've played) so I'm just in my own cloud trying to solve for my own sake, only giving input when I think it's worth anything.

And yeah the wall yeet post was a joke and a reminder because I've had to skip a few posts which always sucks because people are putting in effort into them that I can't comprehend without proper focus.

Sorry if I come off as aggressive, your thoughts are valid and I'm just tired <3 Good night friend, I'll adress any further issues tomorrow.
didistetter

Yeah makes sense. If there's something who'd fake claim to live another day it'd be Maple. What was the context before he claimed, was he pushed or was it from a safe position in threadstate?

Feels like grr is currently fence sitting, just a note to self.

I'm falling asleep and need my sleep schedule intact, so I hope this get sorted out. Good night, yeet wolves, stay hyped!

I initially thought two of Stett/Bop/Arson were w!Arson kills (would imply they could ignite and douse the same night) but I'm probably just here to screw things up due to flipless.

I'm useless now so might as well claim the rest. I targeted Stett n1 and Bop n2 so if those two got arsoned despite that some major fuckery is going on. Rask being SK and no arsonist existing makes sense.

Dya is 100% town. I kinda wanna stick to my Jan v read as well but I've pretty much reset overnight.

Why is Knights and Grr top town?

Vote: Sunbae

:wowee:

Grr is a mess to ISO but these posts and the ones following for the next two hours feels like Grr is very comfortable in thread and just laying back. Like there's not a lot of actual solving happening here.

Vote: Grr let's see where this goes

I'm starting to suspect ladd is a wolf who's pocketing/whiteknighting me tbh, but it's hard to explain why

But when I think that there's 3-4 wolves in 14 players (right?) and that he's alive it's easy to think he's a wolf.

Like, the easiest world is it's like Gemma/Vanta/Dolby/Monte but it's never that easy. Ladd's easy to tinfoil, and then we have Knights and Benneh who I've got no clue on, and Ender who I can't remember a single d2 post from but I read he claimed pr.

Dya's town. Grr's probably town. I still want to think Jan is my D1 Town Clear and won't re-evaluate unless alive end game, if he's town pr he'll just die eventually anyway. And Maple who I don't know what his deal is.

My goal for today is finding 8 villagers, I have 3 right now +2 potential pr's. I'm soon done with work so can put some more work in when I get home.

I forgot about Insomnia and Sunbae. Put them in no clue but I know others town reads them.

Gemma seems like the carton "lots of sus little push" wolf from what I've read. She's probably the best slot to solve atm.

Maple why did you target Arctic of all people? Feels like a clumsy pick if you're town betting your "able to self resolve" on your target, and you're not a clumsy player.

Pretty sure I said Maple had wolf pr vibes d2 tbh, and between my post before and your question I caught up on his claim stuff earlier today. Everything doesn't revolve around you my friend ^^ (sorry for snark <3)

You're forgetting that I'm doing what I can with limited information. I haven't read half d2 and when I don't have enough information on someone I sheep the consensus (ie Knights/Insomnia) but when I find wolfy stuff I'm gonna point it out.

Last game I had here I was pushed all game because my reads weren't consensus. I was wrong on Syn being wolf and he got yeeted d1. I had Logic town d1-d3 and then he got misyeeted. I had Benneh/Hally in my PoE almost all game despite both being consensus town read and after I got misyeeted Hally continued to solo win.

I have good intuition and I know to trust myself and that sometimes it's better to listen to others and sometimes I should listen to my gut and my reasons.

Like, the knights posts I've seen all have looked towny but not unfakeable. Same with Sunbae. And since they aren't focused in thread, I don't prioritze trying to find micro stuff on them because that's going to be easier with more flips anyway.

Idk friends, here's more Wisdom stuff and like

Who are they wolves with?

Benneh was overly defensive early and tried very hard to kill Wisdom.

Definitely not with Gemma.

Definitely not with Maple (repeatedly talking about Maple lying to buy a day while also being under pressure themselves, like going at it for multiple posts in quick succession).

Definitely not with Dolby (snipped at dolby while talking about having said maple had wolf pr vibes d2 and that not everything revolves around dolby, just do not see that as a w/w interaction when surrounded by the rest of the iso).

Shading Knights and Vanta at points including opening d2 with a vote there iirc.

Shading Me.

Shading Grr quite a bit so don't think paired there.

and if I think Ender is town and Insomnia is town that leaves what?

Wisdom/Knights/Mont?

which, meh. idk if i buy that given how hard mont wants to kill Wisdom to clear Gemma

Like ok:

1. I think if Benneh is a pack wolf the way he treats Wisdom makes little sense outside of the worlds where he wants to defend Wisdom early because Wisdom is actually a 2x shot wolf arsonist and got the stett/bop douse/ignite n1/n2 and then once that was used up is expendable to be bussed for credit.

2. Does that timeline line up to when Mont started pushing Wisdom?

3. However, if that's the case that's not how day 3 was lining up. Eod had Benneh on Wisdom but the other votes there were Gemma (not paird), Ladd (villager), Grr (not paired, widely v read by dead villagers), Dya (villa vig), Ender (town read). So if the wolf plan was "defend wisdom til used up and then bus for credit" then where is the rest of the bussing? Knights is on Jan then Ladd, Mont is on Ladd all day.

I think the most likely scenario is just that Wisdom is a villager and Benneh was trying to kill Wisdom because Benneh was a wolf?

Sunbae

08-15-2024, 22:07

I kinda forgot Benneh exists. He's been out of my scope most of the game. (So have Insomnia tho, but wagons are fun)

Vote: Neb

I do think him being busy is genuine and NAI though but I don't mind pushing him a bit.

I forgot about both Mont existing when I wrote that. Ben too, really, but it wouldn't have changed my point.

While it's not worth much, I thought that Benneh in a few bursts of posts (214 to 376 in his iso) varied shitposting with solving in a way that I associate with town PoV, but it's not worth much and doubt it's towny for him specifically.

Maple is mostly a bs read. I liked his talk about getting reversed but when Jan started talking about it I kinda changed my mind, doing mech stuff to mislead is exactly what I expect from w!Maple.

Sunbae just sounds pure.

Ah that's how I phrased it, makes sense!

Yeah right now I'd say...

Top town
Colonel
Jan
Rask

Leaning town
Ender
Ladd

Probably also town
Arctic
Dya
Insomnia
Stett

Null
Benneh
Knights
Maple
Monte (I still can't recall 1 post from him and always forgets he exists)
Sunbae

Wolf lean
Dolby
Gemma
Vanta

Dolby is mostly a PoE slot right now.

Gemma isn't doing much with her time in thread and it doesn't seem like she have more thoughts than she's sharing if you know what I mean with that.

But also a bit of vanity because I wanna see if I hit a wolf d1 and that'd probably clear me

Maybe with Vanta? Knights/Wisdom/Vanta maybe could make sense?

Sunbae

08-15-2024, 22:07

ugh, sorry for repeat mq

Maple

08-15-2024, 22:35

Can someone compile the following information into one post for me:

Maples claim
Maples d1 target
Maples d2 target
Maples d3 target

Enders claim
Enders d1 target
Enders d2 target
Enders d3 target

Wisdoms claim
Wisdoms d1 target
Wisdoms d2 target
Wisdoms d3 target

I don't want to get too bogged down in mechanics over posting but I do want that info in one easily accessible place to understand things as clearly as i can

myself, 10 of swords (pgo, unused)
SoD2 find out I have been inverted, and my role must now target another player
arctic, 7 of Pentacles (was hoping for a commute or smth since apparently this is associated with craftsmen in the context of movement (according to wikipedia))
jan, 10 of Wands (medic, used on dya (chose this cause i thought maybe my cards are *also* inverted, so i grabbed one where upright and upsidedown both seemed like they'd be positive and make someone less likely to die))

Maple

08-15-2024, 22:41

Anyway, if you think I can be paired with ben, you're insane. Worse than that, the possibility of me being paired with ben *and* another member of the poe? Like just break it down.

If for example you think wisdom/me are w/w

that's syn/wisdom/me/ben (maybe +1)

what the hell is our plan? Why is ben flipflopping between *both* buses, and only taking the out onto ladd when it's offered. That world just makes *0* sense. Repeat this thought experiment with each other player. Frankly, the only somewhat plausible pairing is me/sunbae, since sunbae was one of the few people who weren't all gung-ho on killing me. Like, getting me jailed by jan -- if im a wolf and therefore am a wolf with a rber -- it is *imperative* that I am left alive for the day and get an extra night so we can RB jan and get me out alive. Ben's play does not support that hypothesis.

And all of *that* puts aside the mechanics of the situation. Jan killing me was stipulated with us voting out wisdom. You think he's still gonna kill me after ladd goes over? He told me in the chat that he viewed ben as an outed wolf. Dya went into the night seeing ben as an outed wolf.

Can you see how me being a wolf here doesn't make sense?

Frankly, I'm shocked that I need to spend time explaining this. Then again, I was also shocked about how d2 went with people's handling of my slot, and *again* on d3 with the fucked cfd. I *wish* i got voted out over ladd. That shit was actually crazy.

insomnia

08-15-2024, 22:44

so give us some guidance. you're the only one with that belief itg as of right now

and you know your alignment

insomnia

08-15-2024, 22:48

insomnia

08-15-2024, 22:50

your entire post makes no sense imo

if jan thought benneh was outed wolf, then why not jail him? since he stuck to his word of jailing you

except his word was to jail AND execute you. so why only go halfway if he already committed to 50% of the promise

that's where you being alive is shady

insomnia

08-15-2024, 22:52

ah fuck you have to jail during the day

visor we're not playing ToS br0 ples

insomnia

08-15-2024, 22:53

like if maple / wisdom are v/v

then the team looks something like knights / dolby / +1, if not +2

Maple

08-15-2024, 22:56

so give us some guidance. you're the only one with that belief itg as of right now

and you know your alignment

I am giving dolby a bit of space here. Jan and I came to the conclusion that he is ben's most likely partner last night, but frankly I recognize the fact that I am not infallible and that it is a definite possibility that I am just tunneled and my time with jan just reenforced that. I think that his handling of my slot from minute one has been weird, all the way back to our initial interactions. I'm seeing sunbae say that wisdom/dolby appear unpaired so I *am* giving that some consideration, too. In the hypothetical world where dolby is v and i force a dome between us, that's pretty game losing.

On wisdom, I *really* hope to see something from her today. Like, just getting into a dome with me is pointless, especially if they are village. I haven't seen that so far. Like, there is a potential world of knights/mont+1, something to that affect (this in specific is an odd world cause it involves like a big coordinated push onto ladd d3 which like only works out specifically if they expect jan to go through with murdering me, cause otherwise they are more or less forced to put kp on me at some point during the game. seems like a really unstable manouver, which is why this is one that im not really sure about)

On wisdom getting pretty quickly ganged up on today, like i said its pretty plausible to go for a f5 win in this gamestate, especially depending on the status of whatever kp the wolves have here.

Maple

08-15-2024, 22:57

when you keep saying things and say we're insane for believing them, yet not even yourself can point out the wolfteam, your claim that we're insane and off the tracks is immediately shut down

when nothing else is possible, the only thing remaining, no matter how improbable is the answer.

don't you think wisdom is a wolf? if not, then who is the PoE fypov?

At this moment the most likely wolf team is wisdom/dolby/knights, though I am moments away from looking into what sunbae posted above to see what the unpaired read is about.

Maple

08-15-2024, 23:02

like if maple / wisdom are v/v

then the team looks something like knights / dolby / +1, if not +2

22p with 1 3p the team is at most 5 (the standard ratio for a 21er, with the last slot being some sort of 3p)

insomnia

08-15-2024, 23:03

Dolby

08-15-2024, 23:08

today is unfortunately gonna be a low effort day for me

I am liking Sunbae's posts today a lot and also think that the vote is unpaired (I don't think that wolves were expecting the chance to snipe ladd at that time)

Thinking that Vanta blacks progression in the hour before EOD is pretty towny. I kinda get the sense reading their posts that they were intending to switch, wheras Benneh's was just opportunism and that difference in motivations I think is unaligning. Think i've said this before?

I'm worried that I'm tunneled on Wisdom but Wisdom has had moments where I feel like they have just pushed in places because they can and not because they believe in them

I think just by POE Monty is just looking worse than he used to but I don't think I go for him, even tomorrow

I'm genuinely at a point where I'm townlocking Ender. Bro please don't vote me let me pocket you :(

But everything I've seen from him day three and day four just feels like town him and imo he's pretty unpairred from benneh

Can you elaborate on this "wolves clocked Rask is SK" line?

yeah, was thinking that it was strictly possible (though obviously unlikely, dya was always my top villager) that wolves had figured out that Rask was a 3p somehow and claimed to get the 3p out and a false clear out.

can't blame people for pushing dolby/knights/wisdom. Right now I'm at monty/knights/wisdom but I'm concerned that I'm misclearing someone, the problem is where because if it isn't maple everyone looks pretty damn towny. Like, my weakest v reads are gemma and vanta and situationally both just don't feel like wolves. Dya is clear, Insom and Ender look incredibly towny to me. Sunbae and grr are pretty fine

sunbae i straight up think that benneh voted wisdom, regardless of wisdom's alignment, because thread sentiment was clearly heading in that direction

Dolby

08-15-2024, 23:10

Maple

08-16-2024, 00:17

honestly, a dolby / knights team doesn't even sound like a bad guess to me

dunno who would fit as a third though

can you run into deeper details why jan decided not to execute you? he received your card and instantly thought you're a villager, did he describe his thought process as to why he won't do it?

i know you made a post but reading it, i didn't feel like it answered these questions, but if it did then just ignore this post and i'll read it again when i wake up

The long and short of it is he more or less said (not a real quote) "the village that got ladd killed can fuck off and the card you gave me seems legit, so I'm letting you live".

He gave me some speculation on who he thinks the inverter is (not ender), but I'm not gonna air that for now because if he is correct I am pretty confident that the person in question is village.

Thought ben swapping was outing, vanta swapping was weird, and that dolby seemed wolfy both at eod and throughout the day. That his pushes throughout the day seemed agenda-y. If the vote was going to end up on me, he was going to target benneh, apparently. Tho, he targeted me to increase the odds of us having a *real* eod, and because realistically i could gift him something that is like confirmably villagery (for example a vest).

Gemma

08-16-2024, 01:01

aaa

oh that parenthetical does not inspire confidence

dyachei

08-16-2024, 01:28

I'm probably about to go read benneh again for spew. But he can be hard to read spew from

Gemma

08-16-2024, 01:34

The long and short of it is he more or less said (not a real quote) "the village that got ladd killed can fuck off and the card you gave me seems legit, so I'm letting you live".

He gave me some speculation on who he thinks the inverter is (not ender), but I'm not gonna air that for now because if he is correct I am pretty confident that the person in question is village.

Thought ben swapping was outing, vanta swapping was weird, and that dolby seemed wolfy both at eod and throughout the day. That his pushes throughout the day seemed agenda-y. If the vote was going to end up on me, he was going to target benneh, apparently. Tho, he targeted me to increase the odds of us having a *real* eod, and because realistically i could gift him something that is like confirmably villagery (for example a vest).

?

your words dont make sense boss

jan thinks ladd wagon is basically pushed by wolves if he thinks dolby and benneh are wolves, he knows vanta is newer so he's not going to be vindictive about them

who'd he town read? dya and grr? so he's giving the middle finger to village bc he didnt like their votes on ladd?

i can believe jan was pissed about ladd going over, i'd be surprised if he wasn't

idt he'd play anti wincon bc of it

dyachei

08-16-2024, 01:46

benneh spew the thoughts:

He kind of softballs to dolby a bit in the earlier posts and agrees with him pretty early, too.

post 1641 feels too overexplainy to be a partner, so that looks good for sunbae

I noted he hedged on ladd and jan and he kind of hedges a lot on maple, too

1671 another softball to dolby. it doesn't feel pockety to me

probably not a hot take but the way he wigged out about spelling enderwiggin is probably not w/w. also he talks about ender the way he talks about jan

the pushes on wisdom are kind of gentle, too

he's very explanatory of monte, too. probably a decent look for monte

ben tries to tie ladd to wisdom which probably makes it v/w (post 1774)

more reasons ender is town, he really pushes hard against the ender v reads from arctic

the maple push is stronger than i remembered - he calls out the self resolving a few times

man benneh really tried to pocket sunbae

man his poe is all villager, wisdom, and maple. It's making me not want to vote either of them. i'd be shocked if there's no wolf in his town lean section

post 2339
me/sheep for one

knights/monty seems ~likely too (or i'm wrong)

saying these guys were all villagers makes me think there's at least one in knights/monty

maple said he didnt activate his pgo the night arctic died but benneh kept pushing that narrative. really makes me think they're unaligned. I feel like w/w would mean benneh would know manti's claims better

dyachei

08-16-2024, 01:47

feel better about maple, worse about dolby

better about wisdom, worse about knights and monte

much better about sunbae

Maple

08-16-2024, 01:51

?

your words dont make sense boss

jan thinks ladd wagon is basically pushed by wolves if he thinks dolby and benneh are wolves, he knows vanta is newer so he's not going to be vindictive about them

who'd he town read? dya and grr? so he's giving the middle finger to village bc he didnt like their votes on ladd?

i can believe jan was pissed about ladd going over, i'd be surprised if he wasn't

idt he'd play anti wincon bc of it

I don't get what you don't get, honestly. What's anti-wincon about that?

Gemma

08-16-2024, 01:58

feel better about maple, worse about dolby

better about wisdom, worse about knights and monte

much better about sunbae

I'm probably about to go read benneh again for spew. But he can be hard to read spew from

https://media.tenor.com/b8kaChXH7sgAAAAM/eyebrush-spongebob.gif

dyachei

08-16-2024, 02:00

https://media.tenor.com/b8kaChXH7sgAAAAM/eyebrush-spongebob.gif

any questions?

dyachei

08-16-2024, 02:05

Sunbae what do you think?

Gemma

08-16-2024, 02:07

I don't get what you don't get, honestly. What's anti-wincon about that?

jan said he would kill you unless he had something mech confirmable for village to act on (we dont)

jan is not the type of person to just say things and not do them

after he made that post, 0% chance jan believes that we're just gonna go with u being a villager bc u say he said so

i dont know jan particularly well, but imo he would kill you even if he personally thought u were v when he knows theres a village full of people who want to kill and would need to waste a yeet on you

not using village kp on a consensus poe slot out of spite is kinda antiwincon imo

dyachei

08-16-2024, 02:07

jan said he would kill you unless he had something mech confirmable for village to act on (we dont)

jan is not the type of person to just say things and not do them

after he made that post, 0% chance jan believes that we're just gonna go with u being a villager bc u say he said so

i dont know jan particularly well, but imo he would kill you even if he personally thought u were v when he knows theres a village full of people who want to kill and would need to waste a yeet on you

not using village kp on a consensus poe slot out of spite is kinda antiwincon imo

but wolves couldn't have blocked Jan because Jan had a day action

Gemma

08-16-2024, 02:10

but wolves couldn't have blocked Jan because Jan had a day action

creating the hood is a day action

killing at night is not

dyachei

08-16-2024, 02:11

creating the hood is a day action

killing at night is not

idk if that's blockable though?

Gemma

08-16-2024, 02:11

idk if that's blockable though?

why wouldnt it be

dyachei

08-16-2024, 02:16

why wouldnt it be

well the thing is it happens because manti is isolated. So it's possible that all the actions within the jailing are isolated from other actions

Gemma

08-16-2024, 02:20

there is a high chance I die tonight so I should almost always execute.
unless I find an unclaimed pr and believe the claim I should just reduce the general poe.

Vote: Wisdom

I will jail Maple and you can assume I will execute.

We will have a night talk of course but this is where I stand right now and big things need to happen for that to change. (actual hard confirmation that the village can comprehend even if I die).

Vote: Maple

im not moving imo

dyachei

08-16-2024, 02:21

vote: knights

Gemma

08-16-2024, 02:22

well the thing is it happens because manti is isolated. So it's possible that all the actions within the jailing are isolated from other actions

sounds bastard

Maple

08-16-2024, 02:28

Well, hopefully the game doesn't go to lylo.

dyachei

08-16-2024, 02:39

i wanna talk to someone about the spew but everyone's already set in their ways

Maple

08-16-2024, 02:52

im pretty tired but will engage with it when im awake enough lol

Sunbae

08-16-2024, 04:47

Sunbae what do you think?

Just got back and will read more in a bit and tag you with results

Sunbae

08-16-2024, 04:47

maple who are the wolves

Sunbae

08-16-2024, 04:57

where i'm at roughly, tiers not ordered within (also an excuse to use [ glow] tags which are insanely cool)

~lock town (should be 0 wolves)
1. dyachei - vig claim aside just town off d1, but lock for the 'CC' on rask even tho he flipped neut and not wolf, functionally its near the same since the only real possibility was if rask flipped v then their roles were pretty incompatible
11. grr - my most confident read itg mech aside. i think lots of ppl have co-signed this dead/alive/town/wolf and i dont see the need to overthink this
13. insomnia - this high off day 1 mostly, dont think he'd bus syn when rask/sheep are viable wagons, especially when ladd/newc are pushing to resolve v!sheep and knights also has a good amount of v equity that could have been a 3rd counter. doesn't make sense meta wise and the rest of his posting is v good

v likely town (0-1w hopefully)
4. Vanta Black - prety villagery pop ins and feels distinctly different from her champs game. would like to see more out of them but i sorta think she may have been threadspewed v yesterday
9. Jan - vibes, playing towny, believable pr claim, shrug
21. Dolby (formerly C0balt). - idk i just read his posts and think town. if he were vagos i would say he makes good poasts

lean town but less sure? (0-1)
6. Sunbae - some meta stuff and general vibes, he hasn't pinged anything on my radar for how i read him but out of respect for his wolf game i am putting him in this tier cause as iaafr once said i'm "eternally pocketed" (I disagree and think that's a dumb ass read tbh but w/e)
10. gemma - idk going after stett as wolf just doesnt make sense to me but i could see myself being a sucker for this read. feels diff from last game they were a wolf too but low confidence
19. Montmorency - lots of posts around EOD1 and 2 that just make me wonder "why do this as a wolf?" -- they also make me wonder "why do it as a villager?" sometimes too but in general i think they've been good enough
20. Theknightsofneeee - had him in v likely town earlier but the lack of volume and impact yesterday made me drop him down just out of #thefear.

poe -> maybe woof (1-2 wolves)
8. ladd - pushing lots of villagers day 1 and 2 and didn't do anything with syn. he's soft pushed me a bit and a) he's like, almost never misread me and b) even if i dont hold him to the standard of A, there was like, 0 conviction with his push on me yesterday and was pretty limp and then changed his vote over to monty near eod while (i think?) defending rask. if mont is a wolf then its not that bad, but if he's v then he went from villa to villa day 2 after doing that day 1. he's also defended a few players i have wr'd at various points of the game, and i don't see how all those are true unless there's several misclears in my towncore. so either him or I are having a really rough game or he's a woof (or maybe we're both having ~OK games but we dont have the full picture to see that yet, idk!)
12. EnderWiggin - if i take his PR claim at FV then w/e but if i ignore that, i think he has a lot of pairing equity w/ ladd and wisdom. having said that, i do agree w/ ladd re: logic of claims coming out unlikely to have multiple wolves claiming after eachother and i get the feeling he'd coach against that so idt these 3 are like, hardly ever gonna be w/w/w.
14. Wisdom - claim seems out of place in relation to everything else tbh. some good posts day 1 but also some sus posts and day 2 was not great even disregarding the claim.

wolf
18. Maple - probly wolf KP tbh. claimed feedback at EOD. claimed self-resolution. self-resolving player dies, no feedback, fun

i know my bottom 4 poe is not w/w/w/w, or at least, its extremely unlikely, which means im misclearing at least 1 player in my lean towns so id like to focus discussion/challenges on my worldview around those 7 players today (with a preference for the ones in the lean town section but ill take what i can get)

Pulling this on its own before my post with more specific examples of posts

Sunbae

08-16-2024, 05:12

Bennehs day 1 posts about alive players. I'm making no commentary on them yet

About Wisdom:

About Grrr

About Ender

(thats jumping on my Ender suspicion)

Benneh's day 2/3 posts about various people (i think this is in reverse order so read bottom up if you care about progressions in each)

Involving Knights:

ladds read in knights is real bad imo and feels like widening the POE, esp since im who he’s pairing knights with

idk if i have the balls to do it and be wrong tho cause then im eating a vig shot in the face (or a launch)

idt you were ladd's main push d1, i would say it was sheep/knights, you were a side dish when the thread stagnated a bit. at least that's how i read things. ladd can feel free to clarify ig

and i've factored that in, but i don't have a strong village read on you so idt its fair or charitable for me to suggest you are also a reason ladd is a wolf in that world view when i know me/sheep are villagers, knights is likely one, but my confidence on you being one is pretty shaky at best. i could easily have things inverted between you/ladd so /shrug

i agree on dolby knights

can you talk to me about your ladd and jan reads cause they're two ppl i probly ned to sort out a bit more. from a pure game state pov with my other reads so far it feels like they aren't paired but there could def be a wolf in them and if there is i feel like it'd be more likely to be ladd than jan. i liked ladd's posting for most of yesterday though so idk game feels hard fmpov

this wouldnt be the first time he fooled me tbf but i also kinda wana take pride in being the sole v!ladd reader when ppl read him wrong lol

Involving wisdom:

I’ve had the thought but it was offset by me initially thinking they were likely w/w and manti was a better role

I’m not spewing every thot into the game thread right away at every chance given both the cap and general thread health reasons

To your last point I think there’s an interpretation translation issue because I’m not saying wisdoms posts were good. Just that manti wasn’t really teying much to wiggle out of the elim. If they are w/w and manti had the better power I’d expect he post better and wisdom would have somewhat conceded to dying earlier since they were really the only 2 wagons in consideration for most of today

yea i pondered that earlier. i think i was a bit thrown by how d2 played out and manti wanting one more day but that doesnt align with how they are playing today cause wisdom is like... trying and manti isnt?

if jan is real it shouldn't really matter since if they are w/w he can jail the other but im down to swap in case of shenanigans of some sort

im swamped at work so idk how realistic it is for me to make it back for eod again. sorry

vote: wisdom

i agree on wisdom's w equity and the out of placeness of the claim in relation to everything else. idrg it but she did fake claim as a wolf in a recent 12/12er i hosted where she claimed some kinda cop (vanilla cop or somethin idr) on d2 as and survived / won the game off that silliness. if i draw a parallel from that game to this one the a) apparently unnecessary claim timing and b) the believability of the role existing in the roleset given everything else we know (she claimed that cop when other investigative had been elim'd d1 and i think the other PR had a pseudo invest like a desperado or smth) line up with my perception of the current game state and her place in it.

the 3p!devil would make sense thematically as an arsonist but there's ~0% shot rask tried to fake claim a vig shot that wasn't his own and the rest of the apparent KP in the game doesn't align with an arsonist existing unless they ignited last night AND arctic... shot someone he was village reading

my worry is that maple is wolf KP and wisdom is a meh role/Goon particularly because how the self-resolving/attention drawing occurred and if w we look at another 2/3 deaths tomorrow. but in that world i feel like wisdom would be lolcatting to throw the lunch here and they seem content? maybe that's telling lol

maybe we flip it around and kill wisdom here and have jan jail/kill maple? idk

This also lends credence to wisdoms claim being weird

idk, I feel like an arsonist with firefighter being in the game with no role flips is kinda bastard maybe?? The more I think about it that feels like way too much info to withhold from town

not worth thinking about now but if wisdom is real it could also mean a 3p Arso

Remember on day 4 or smth

if there’s no arso I agree it’s probly to distract a potential MD/tracker. The game is role heavy so I could see that

if wisdom's a wolf ladd is probly also one :curtain:

the 4th and 5th paragraph ping me as a bit appealy and excuse-y but you probly need to highlight or espouse what you are seeing here

i also think their read on you feels a bit bad faith lol but ymmv

Wisdom why am i null now? i dont get your progression on me this game

unless im misremembering you had me as somewhat strong townlean d1 and not that i expect everyone to carry that water forever it feels weird i'm now null when i was mostly absent eod and afaict you haven't elaborated much (at least on me) since ?

Involving ender:

idrg the hate on my ender push

dude was wolfy and he was a PR so i'm validated :hmmyes:

its vibes mostly but originated just from stuff that didnt seem sincere to me

my impression of his v games here on the org is he makes more waves and i feel like he's done more drive bys and flurries that read surface level v than real insight. the game with hally as wolf most recently he was limited there in availability like this game, and i misread him but the vibes were still diff imo

idk how to elucidate on my read and im not sure its even worth it but i feel like ender is being weirdly ignored

like i doubt anyone's going to prioritize him today cause he's kind of a non-player in EOD and it feels like he doesn't resolve much either way but something about his posting just irks me

i think jan mentioned he had a 'villagery burst' or something and like, that's what every instance of him joining thread has felt like to me -- a burst of energy and then farewell ill see you next time when the energy on his v reads starts to run low

and like i get its on me to talk about it more or case him but i just dont have that energy rn. if someone wants to explain why he's town to me ill listen but every bit of his presence has seemed like a facade to me

Involving Gemma:

Sunbae i reread eod focusing on gemma a bit more beyond the iso and ... ya, sorry, not much changed

i wont be floored if they're a wolf but i still see little things that make me lean v? like i hear what you are saying but its not clicking for me

idt you were ladd's main push d1, i would say it was sheep/knights, you were a side dish when the thread stagnated a bit. at least that's how i read things. ladd can feel free to clarify ig

and i've factored that in, but i don't have a strong village read on you so idt its fair or charitable for me to suggest you are also a reason ladd is a wolf in that world view when i know me/sheep are villagers, knights is likely one, but my confidence on you being one is pretty shaky at best. i could easily have things inverted between you/ladd so /shrug

hmmm

i suppose there's a world where the vote onto syn serves a purpose if it builds up a rask/knights/sheep/gemma quadchotomy wagonfest heading into eod, as that would be 3 villas (from wolf pov) to counter sus on gemma, with a general sentiment assuming thread will lean into more established eod wagons rather than a syn cfd?

idk

Sunbae reread gemma's eod and idrk what you don't like about it, be more specific? i came away with a better feeling after rereading a bit

these couple posts read like villagey frustration/pushback rather than a wolf but ymmv?

i also think her unvote off of knights who she's been wolfreading all day to counterbalance and join a burgeoning wagon on syn is a straight up good look, especially if we ride with the idea knights is town. i'm struggling to see that as a wolf tactic to try and spew/anti spew syn one way or another since gemma joined as 3rd and made the wagon real (if it wasn't already?)

Involving Insomnia:

there's some stuff I want to look back on that ladd mentioned re: his interactions d1 with maple being somewhat clearing/unaligned. if that's true that might be a good way to read into ladd more

but idrt the way you're talking about his approach to syn/rask/elsewhere does much for me? to quote you, titans of werewolf were pushing on sheep/knights that EOD (ladd and newcomb) and if that's v/v ladd could have just assumed him doing that + voting gemma would be enough to get through d1 unscathed?

meta wise, he hates bussing in turbos and mashes and i'm pretty sure this also holds true in longform games. idt insom's vote is on syn in a place where it makes sense to consider syn dead-weight to the point a non-busser feels the need to softly bus/gain cred, and even if it was or we ignored that, i feel like his excuse wouldnt be so laissez faire about how he didn't read their posts or have an opinion. wolf!insom is more than capable and i think more likely to gather some kind of fake thoughts to push out a wolf hoping to grab cred like that.

ignoring meta, i just think his posting is like, good, and with some of the rambling and direction he's been taking the thread when writing his posts, they don't seem to be doing much for his team other than him being villa read here on d3 when we've hit 2 days in a row (albeit yesterday could be considered a 'win' for wolves, but w/e)

Involving Vanta:

day 1 to day 2 I feel like there was a lot of caution around their slot from various players and several people commented (probly including me at some point) about how they would die to village KP almost certainly this game and the general sentiment was they were ==rand

and on day 2 ppl just started... clearing her, or at least, townleaning her and the discussion about them getting killed just kinda died down and i got the impression no one that's a villager really wolf read her for her posts, it was more just a volume thing, and no one that's a wolf felt like they could really push her or take that line cause they knew it would look pretty weird if/when vanta flips v and was seen as a LHF / lazy kill

its just a vibe of a gamestate read but my read doesn't hinge on that, it just bolsters it a bit

Including Maple:

I can’t find his tier list but ya I think he jus shoots maple

I think he had bop v but I’m on phone and can’t check

its also possible he targeted maple, who he sus quite a bit and died to a pgo/reflexive mill

can we just maj maple and kick back off tomorrow same time? lol

i think maple looks worse but i think its a very good chance they're w/w

ladd's pushes this game are not great but maple is like, very likely just wolf kp

Vote: maple

so much for feedback at EOD lol

?Vote: Maple
(that vote is on day 2)

I am extremely sus of the idea that anything is self resolving and confirmable

its a flipless game my dudes lol

Hmmm

Well, I was thinking rask but he also claimed

I’d lean maple rn but I kinda wanna see what happens over the. Text few hours

Vote: Raskolnikov

fine giving ender some space, would rather go rask than jan but could also vote maple ig

maple looks worst but i dont really know how much we glean anyway since syn popped up pretty quickly from what i can tell. i doubt wolves were capable of responding to that in any kind of strategic way regardless of rask's alignment

Including Mont:

idrk mont, but i have him in my lean town but unsure pile. that stunt was just... empty and absurd but on level 1 i feel like he'd just not make that post as wolf?

i agree withy our sentiment written out tbh

i dont wana overplay mont's 'strategy' bone here but i feel like his strat as a syn!teammate entering day late and being around for EoD is to do anything but what he did. i dont really remember if ive seen him wolf so this might be a dumb read but this play lines up with my view of him as a villager around EoD and he doest strike me as someone that keeps that same process/tone as a wolf. i feel like he's prob way more straightforward as wolf and straight forward would be just voting someone else or spinning his wagon spiel without invoking syn

minor take that this isn't the case if ther's other wolves wagoned at eod and theres just malarkey going on where syn is the lamb wolves have to bus but i dont think its worth living in that world atm

can you summarize your thoughts on monte for me (or link me to where you talk about him?)

i liked his entrance yesterday after being gone all day

To Dolby (not about):

gotcha. makes sense but i honestly didn't even put two and two together what he meant by that post when i read it originally. i don't really agree fwiw cause the post seems more throwaway than attack-y. also i don't feel like wisdom was really in any kind of danger for the second half of your justification to really matter here? she was pretty town read yesterday and i doubt that post makes much of a dent to syn's mindset about how he can or can't adjust his read on wisdom on days 2/3/4

if we pretended syn didn't die (or flipped v) what would your read on wisdom be here for their own posting?

So here's the compilation of Benneh posts and I have a lot of thoughts on them but I want to write it out in a different post so this one isn't as long.

Please read through these

Sunbae

08-16-2024, 05:37

dyachei

Benneh Spew Thoughts:

First, I believe that I have to ignore the chances that he was lost as, well, zero people have found that theory reasonable thus far.

Second, if I operate under that assumption the first thing I have to note is that I cannot envision Wisdom as a wolf with Benneh. There are so many posts going at Wisdom in that spoiler across two days without really relenting while also trying to defend himself from her at points. Even when given the option of Maple vs Wisdom, he is arguing that Wisdom is the better role and should die with a vote there. Note that if you believe it could be that its Benneh/Wisdom/Maple as a trio, we'll get to the Maple part and it's not looking any better for wolf reads there either. And at points he argues that maybe Maple is a wolf PR and should die first as well. He spends time trying to cite a recent game that Wisdom fake claimed as a wolf but "worries that Maple is wolf KP and wisdom is a meh role" before turning around a few posts later and arguing the opposite to vote Wisdom. The point is: Benneh wanted Wisdom to die. Claims Wisdoms claim is weird. Says she's fakeclaimed recently. Is goading Stett into championing a wolf read on Wisdom with the whole "oh yeah those paragraphs do ping me they are a bit appealy and excuse-y but youuuuu need to explain more to make others see it" post. Also before the shift onto Wisdom harder he is asking why Wisdom wolfreads him now despite villa reading him earlier. It reads to me that he's trying to get wisdom killed for two days shifting arguments around to whatever fits and trying to push the major pushing onto vocal villagers. Which, note, is how I'm reading his jumping onto me about Ender early.

Third, to continue on Maple benneh is just going ham on Maple from day 2. Immediately called Maple's Syn vote the worst on day 2, says he could vote Maple instead of Rask, Leans maple again when Rask claims, immediately dismisses Maple's idea that they are self-confirmable with "its a flipless game my dudes lol i am extremely sus of the the idea that anything is self resolving". We are operating under the assumption that if Maple is a wolf it's a mega kill role given the desire to live day 2, the many deaths day 3, etc. Which doesn't track with Benneh THEN voting Maple after the claim on day 2. Then starts up day 3 with a vote there. Calls maple wolf KP. Wants to make the wagons Maple/Ladd. Wants to maj Maple. Says arctic probably shot maple in an effort to shade Maple. Twice. Like, similar to the Wisdom stuff, Benneh is trying really, really, really hard to kill Maple for multiple days. And if Benneh is a pack wolf I am not seeing it be w/w.

Which means, scarily, I am of the opinion that Maple/Wisdom are v/v. Which is a really, really hard thing to push forward because so many people have wanted both dead and so many people have watched the two of them skate through multiple elims when they looked certain to die. Well, multiple for Maple. One for wisdom I guess.

But as I read the thread and read the spew I just .. that's what I think sorry. I also think Wisdom is hard to be a wolf from her own posting even ignoring Benneh! As I posted earlier.

Fourth, which brings us to: where are the wolves then. I think the wolves are in Knights, Dolby, Mont, Gemma, Grr, and Vanta.

The way that Benneh jumped on Ender day one trying to springboard on my suspicion there does not strike me as teamed. Insom has Ender as the would-lose-the-game-to villager. Ender's posting as I read earlier was villagery. The way Benneh validates his Ender push with "he was a PR so im validated" makes me pretty certain Ender is actually a PR. I also think Benneh calling ender "weirdly ignored" and bringing him up on his own is less likely to be teamed (not impossible, but coupled with everything else I am thinking unlikely.

The way Benneh described the Insomnia village read strikes me as a read he just thinks is obvious and is trying to get correct points on. Outside of that he barely discusses Insomnia. Doesn't try to distance at all. Plus, so many dead villagers had Insom locked V that I'm rolling with it.

I'm also rolling with Grr v for the same reasons. Benneh rarely mentioned Grr d2/d3 except to +1 villa reads there but all dead villas were locking Grr too. Plus general villagery posting right?

So that leaves: Knights, Dolby, Mont, Vanta

I think the way benneh talked to Dolby is wolfy. It reads like a quick interaction neither player gives a shit about because they aren't worried about the response coming.

I think Benneh swapping to Ladd (some say outing but I was voting before then PEW PEW) makes a hell of a lot of sense with Ladd coming at Knights with Benneh being teamed with Knights. Calls Ladd's Knights read "widening the poe", calls Knights a likely villager, hits a very similar " oh i agree buddy! can you talk about ladd/jan i need to sort them out!" tone to Knights as he does with Dolby and I'm not really seeing it anywhere else. Basically, just kind of had basic interactions with Knights that are concerning to me ESPECIALLY given I was always concerned about Knights once Benneh flipped given the whole "kept tying me/benneh together but shaded me and propped up benneh when he did" thing I mentioned.

He calls Vanta threadspewed V but thats really it. Very concerned how he asked me to elaborate on Mont when I started v reading but not in an hmmm weird way but almost in a "yes, elaborate on that lets manifest that mont v read in the t hread" way.

I'm not saying it's Knights/Dolby/Mont I'm just saying that's where I lean right now but I gotta check more stuff out.

Sunbae

08-16-2024, 05:42

So here's the issue:

Am I willing to bet the game on this Wisdom/Maple v/v read I have?

Ugh idk. Watching all the dead villagers roll in after losing to Wisdom or Maple would make me feel like I failed. They've been adamant that those two need to die and it would be incredibly selfish to just say nah to that.

But also, that's just ... what I believe? and I have more information now than they did when they died. So maybe I am supposed to roll with it. Trust myself and my ability to read players. I've never been afraid of looking silly (side note: me saying things that are wild or silly is a good way to town read me because I'm way more hesitant to say things like that as a wolf when as a villager I just believe it and go) but I'm also washed and rusty you know so bleh. Also, I don't even know if I have the threadpull to convince anyone anyways if I want to shield.

I wish I did it for Ladd. Is it just overcorrecting to do it now? It's tough spot for me.

Sunbae

08-16-2024, 05:43

Now I need to read the rest of the players from the other direction and see what makes sense.

And check how many posts I have left

Gemma

08-16-2024, 05:54

on the off chance ur v sunbae, i think saying anyone benneh pushed or wolfread is v when not doing so would have been pushing against consensus is just kind of insane

afaict ur living in a universe where distancing and bussing doesnt exist

so like

nothing you just wrote means anything to me, other than i think its all wolfy

Maple

08-16-2024, 06:27

yeah we're on a pretty similar page, sunbae

for what it's worth, with 12 alive and presumably 9-3 ratio remaining, we have at minimum 1 miss, 2 if theyre out of KP

im going over your stuff and cross referencing my notes.

meow meow meow

Sunbae

08-16-2024, 06:31

Every knights post that mentions benneh

apparently i can't read and just processed that colonel is bopolis

good to know

he's probably > rand villa then but only slightly.

benneh also slightly > rand villa.

think cobalt's recent posting is p good (specially posts #76 and #82)

newcomb not giving a fuck about the game except about if colonel is gh feels slightly villagery (and also newcomb/bop are unlikely w/w)

after rereading bop/benneh's interactions, it felt very natural and meme'y and good and i don't want to kill either of them atm

initially liked syn pushing bop (colonel), but now that i'm villa reading bop i like it less.

Villagers

knights

didistetter
cobalt

colonel lubricator (bop)
nebjiamn (benneh)

gun to head villagers

newcomb
syn

Wolves

dyachei

and with that, good night :Zzzz:

@ whoever asked about my benneh read (raskov I think?)

its literally just i liked how he interacted with bop

relatively low confidence but the vibes were good

I skimmed/looked for my own name on catchup so i haven't fully processed the thread tbqh

my general thoughts are that i still feel pretty good about my earlier villa reads, i think benneh's hangup on wisdom talking about your first post feels like villa!benneh, I think sheep had a villagery post that you quoted which i need to reread and process my feelings on, i liked arctic's entrance a lot, think newcomb is significantly more villagery now, and I hate ladd's wolf read on me because it feels not very fleshed out, and like he's just wolf reading me after general thread perception on me soured and he's just trying to add more pressure, so I think of the people pushing me he is currently most likely to be a wolf.

something about enderwiggen pinged me but tbh i don't remember what it was and i've never played with them so i'll probably jsut let that go

okay lets go point by point

1) just talked about that

2) I disagree bop was more villagery, i think bop's game related stuff was pretty whatever, and my villa reads on both of them were purely tone/interaction based, and because the interactions were with each other, i put them in the same tier.

(i think benneh is more villagery now but thats besides the point.)

3) the timing of the read syn gave felt right in the thread, I remember agreeing with it as I read it and felt it was a villagery thought, but obviously if i have a villa read on bop by the time i'm putting pen to paper about the read, that will color how strong my read on syn is because I now think its a wolf read on a villager. Plus syn's read was literally just a one sentence read on page 2 or whatever, it would have never gotten more than light villa read anyways.

4) /shrug emoji/ oh well. I did actually end up reading them on my phone while in bed but they weren't worth another post and tbh i was falling asleep in my comp chair while writing the reads post so my brain was just too fried to process those.

I don't think any of these should be real sticking points in your mind tbh.

maybe the sheep one i guess, but me not giving a read on sheep is probably more villa indicative of me than anything else i've done, because i would absolutely have made something up there if I was a wolf because i knew people would expect me to have a read on sheep

these 2 posts are what i'm talking about

i especially liked the bold

(click through, the one above is about benneh)

As an unintentional theme this game, I am really valuing people getting hung up on things I think are super villagers to get hung up on.

Benneh getting hung up on the wisdom(?) stuff about didistetter was pretty villagers and his tone has been really good.

Sure he’s low quantity of content but he’s not being actively wolfy, and sunbae has been just as low content, but hasn’t had a shining moment of billageriness that I usually get/feel from villa sunbae.

He is LACKING.

okay i'm here lets do this shit

where to start where to start...

Where i'm at before a full day 2 read/reread.

gonna look into ladd/jan's day 2 and see where i'm at on both of them (i have read their day 2's but not digested them so i want to see if that changes my reads on them)

want to look into sunbae more

want to look into vanta/mont and sort them

currently have

dya/benneh/maple/didi/dolby/bop/wisdom (after the claim)/insomnia/gemma all as villagers

want to kill outside of that group, and while I def lean jan personally atm, i honestly haven't looked at many others closely enough yet to really strongly advocate for jan over those atm

i think the syn wagon is mostly clean (with the exception of maybe arctic), all the votes felt villagery and not forced, and even bop/dya's votes on syn felt good too.

benneh is the villa read i'm softening on the most with time, but i haven't really read his day 2 yet so i'll do that first before I potentially move him in my reads.

anyone have questions/comments/concerns pls ask/tag me, and I will respond as I get to it.

read benneh iso

liked his treatment of Sunbae (following up on his stated read about sunbae being a collaborator as a villager), agree with him on dya being obvious villa, and think he's pushing in the right areas (ender/jan/raskol) but I would maybe argue that he doesn't feel like he's inquisitive/probing enough this game, more that he's an observer/commenter than a wolf hunter.

still would put him as a villa lean, but not in top tier villas.

Sunbae

08-16-2024, 06:35

hmm,

yeah i think ill go ~ anything else now glgl gemma

Wisdom

08-16-2024, 07:37

Vote: Wisdom

I will jail Maple and you can assume I will execute.

We will have a night talk of course but this is where I stand right now and big things need to happen for that to change. (actual hard confirmation that the village can comprehend even if I die).

I know I'm a broken record but this should be outing for Maple. The only reason I can see this not going through is if Jan got roleblocked and the only reason to roleblock him would be to save Maple.

Yeah Maple is going full swing all wim now that we're closing in on lategame. This isn't new to w!him.

Wisdom

08-16-2024, 07:38

w!Maple being hard to kill does not make him town.

Gemma

08-16-2024, 07:54

I know I'm a broken record but this should be outing for Maple. The only reason I can see this not going through is if Jan got roleblocked and the only reason to roleblock him would be to save Maple.

Yeah Maple is going full swing all wim now that we're closing in on lategame. This isn't new to w!him.

i mean, wolves can save v!maple with a roleblock to make it look like a fake guilty

but then maple would come into thread and say idk why im alive jan said he would kill me

Gemma

08-16-2024, 07:56

hmm,

yeah i think ill go ~ anything else now glgl gemma

oh sorry

if it tilts u for me to say i w read u i can just skip that part in the future

Sunbae

08-16-2024, 08:06

zero to do with wolfreading me, tilted at it being like the third time youve treated me like an idiot
can express disagreement without being condescending and rude

Vanta Black

08-16-2024, 08:23

Vanta Black

I am ready for the very outlandish theory :help:

Well it was gonna be how I deduced that dya/nebjiamn were wolves together, based on...but never mind that now.

Vanta Black

08-16-2024, 08:37

...
The best reason to vote Wisdom IME is to clear Gemma.

Sometimes I undertand voting xxxx to clear xxxx, but not usually, and not this time. Why do need to clear Gemma?

Vanta Black

08-16-2024, 08:38

Arggggh
Sometimes I undertand voting xxxx to clear xxxx, but not usually, and not this time. Why do YOU need to clear Gemma?

(if you could see what my computer is doing right now

Wisdom

08-16-2024, 08:46

Sunbae/Gemma not w/w you heard it here first!

Gemma

08-16-2024, 09:31

zero to do with wolfreading me, tilted at it being like the third time youve treated me like an idiot
can express disagreement without being condescending and rude

oh im sorry, i wasnt aware it came off that way, mb boss

Gemma

08-16-2024, 09:35

fwiw idk when u think i may have treated u that way previously but i dont think ur one at all my only perception of u is that ur a savvy and experienced mafia player

Gemma

08-16-2024, 09:37

Vanta Black whyd u vote ladd

whos a villager etc

Sunbae

08-16-2024, 09:38

Ok, we're good.

My mistake for reading it a different way than intended. Apologies for being frustrated on my end too.

I'll get back at the thread in the am

Wisdom

08-16-2024, 09:53

i think maple looks worse but i think its a very good chance they're w/w

ladd's pushes this game are not great but maple is like, very likely just wolf kp

Does anyone know what Ben's relationship to bussing is?

Like, the moment Maple claimed self resolving he was a dying slot, so Ben bussing him to go deep makes sense.
I don't know why he changed his mind and went Ladd though, maybe he wanted to sac himself to make sure the arsonist got another ignite and didn't think Dya would shoot him.

Gemma

08-16-2024, 09:57

Ok, we're good.

My mistake for reading it a different way than intended. Apologies for being frustrated on my end too.

I'll get back at the thread in the am

https://www.falseknees.com/comics/imgs/219.png

Gemma

08-16-2024, 10:04

Gemma

08-16-2024, 10:26

https://www.falseknees.com/comics/imgs/219.png

in case its not clwear, we are the birds engaging in villainy against children idk it was more camaraderie-y in my head

Sunbae

08-16-2024, 10:30

no no you are so good i love the comic

ill give you a long answer tomorrow, i am extremely tired and out of it now

and it came off exactly that way nothing to worry about

Gemma

08-16-2024, 12:07

people who better all be villagers or we lose lol i mean we probably lose anyway but wolves in here and jede Hoffnung ist verloren xdd
insom
grr
dya

people who people say did some wolfy shit in pages i havent bothered to read and/or are apparently paired with benneh or smth but i dont really have enough villagers so im not letting this one go until lylo suck it
dolby

people who maybe kinda look decent-ish off spew ig maybe and were ~fine previously but their posts today were so bad lol but also they're probably not with knights so yeah whatever ig i should technically probably v read them at least until knights flips v and they claim some nonsense that makes no sense with the inverter at which point i can be like hehe ur a wolf hehe and then i push the yeet on them in f3 and win us the game and by us i mean wolves wait no-
ender

people who have seemed out of touch of with thread all game and then occasionally make massive posts like wow but i just ? at them (skill issue on my part) and also they were best buds with benneh until dya ruined it ovo
sunbae

people who give me the heebie jeboobies and i constantly want to kill them but not enough to actually kill them which honestly perfectly fits the profile of a wolf but here i am still typing about it and not doing anythijng about it oh noooooo
monty

people who i want to kill
wisdom
knights
vanta
maple

people who ive wanted to kill for so long idk what to do with myself anymore
wisdom
maple

dead wolves who outed themselves to kill ladd because they were high on the toxic fumes emitted when u put pasta in cold water u fkin animal for ??? reasons
benneh

some dude who didnt doc save newcomb
jan

he was my villager
rask

not sure if some of these tiers were strictly needed hmm

insomnia

08-16-2024, 13:51

Wisdom

08-16-2024, 15:30

Visor a votecount pls? :3

I'm not budging from Maple today, but I still go a little brr from not being able to check where people are voting.

Wisdom

08-16-2024, 15:35

reasons to debate retirement:

in most games, i don't care until a switch just turns on in my head and i realize we're in danger of losing. that is when i really start reading and doing actual solving instead of lazy work driven by inertia

i don't feel like we're about to lose, so i still don't care to do much other than flipping maple / wisdom and see where we're at afterwards

im a sloth

Big vibes

I'm usually in top shape d1-d3 and then I go into hibernation mode until LYLO starts.
Feeling kinda weird about Semis starting next week but I think that it's good that I'm playing mafia in the meantime instead of just hypeing it up to absurdity like I always tend to do. I might not show it but I really appreciate being in this game :3

Just sucks that, well, my wolf reads haven't been great so far. Couldn't see what you saw on Stett and I should have stuck with the ladd TR but fam is it easy to go tinfoil on that guy when he's having an off game.
Confident that Maple's a wolf tho, so there's still chance for redemption!

I'm glad that I found Jan early at least :3

insomnia

08-16-2024, 15:39

idt ladd had an off game

he played good, but was just more reserved i guess or less pushy. could've been because of holiday or because the older you get, the softer you become hehe

EnderWiggin

08-16-2024, 15:49

Sunbae and Dya coming to very similar spew reads to me makes me feel ~p good about em.

EnderWiggin

08-16-2024, 15:52

jan and ben being the only two kills in the night make that possibility pretty nonsensical, given wolf!me just kills jan and we use our factional elsewhere

in that scenario, the medic heal would be fake and/or we just never stack w/ him on dya

Why are you sure wolves have an odd night kill?

Like idk it's weird that your "evidence" posts kinda try to use it as an argument as if you know it's objective truth.

dyachei

08-16-2024, 15:52

Sunbae and Dya coming to very similar spew reads to me makes me feel ~p good about em.

what are your thoughts on reading benneh?

EnderWiggin

08-16-2024, 15:55

you'd have been blocked in jail tho man? Think your one shot PGO wouldn't have been usable
EnderWiggin I think to get to wisdom spewed from Benneh that doesn't cover it. I feel that the first thing with Benneh talking to me does look good from Wisdom but I was clearing Wisdom for bad reasons since I was still catching up with the thread at the time, and it would have potentially been bad long term to use that to clear wisdom when I don't think Wisdom was a major push at that exact point in time?

Straight up disagree with the post advocating voting out wisdom and exeing Maple. Thread was clearly moving towards a wisdom lead at that time and there's some hedgy language in that despite that leads me to think that he didn't want to actually go there

I kinda think Benneh trying to fight the Spew Reads and generally disagreeing in shadey fashion with anyone trying to clear them off Syn's flip just doesn't feel aligned.

Like, at what point don't you just shut up and let it happen if your partner is being cleared from another wolf's flip?

EnderWiggin

08-16-2024, 15:56

what are your thoughts on reading benneh?

Vote: Dolby

Sorry for the rand friendo.

I think Wisdom/Gemma/Sunbae/Maaaaaybe Maple (And me ofc) look good off the spew.

Also Dya but tbh that's just a given at this point lel.

Dolby/Knights/Monty are probably the ones I feel worse about most.

And now I sleep. My 1 job of spew reading is done. =P

From before you started your spew reads =P

EnderWiggin

08-16-2024, 15:58

Is this your only reason cuz its probably gonna take a horse to drag me off wisdom. thing of note is that benneh was very well aware of wisdoms fakeclaim in the 12/12er on MU, so my question is why didnt he bring it up the day before already to shade her. Don't know how much of a powerwolf benneh is but that was my initial reaction to it and he didnt mention until I did. (and I'm also not sure I understand WHAT you are seeing in that post).

I hope you did read my other posts because I quote like... 3 or 4 different examples of Wisdom being shaded/pushed by Benneh.

EnderWiggin

08-16-2024, 16:05

Im a bit disappointed that Ender and I have just been sending smoke signals back and forth this game cause its always fun to vibe with him :(

Can I get your thoughts on my "oh no, Benneh posted a lost wolf signal and now I don't know if I can read into his thoughts on Wisdom?" thing cause I'm kind of hung up on it and backburnering a Wisdom iso until later this game day because of it.

Same tbh.

Blame me living in constant agony of irl requirements and struggling with my brain.

Wisdom

08-16-2024, 16:08

idt ladd had an off game

he played good, but was just more reserved i guess or less pushy. could've been because of holiday or because the older you get, the softer you become hehe

Maybe I'm just biased. He went from town reading me d1-d2 to just nopeing that. He even had good reasoning when town reading me! Smh

EnderWiggin

08-16-2024, 16:09

maybe i shouldn't give dolby that much leeway for pushing ender, because benneh also did

idk he's been just incredibly villagery imo compared to his wolf games. i didn't get benneh's read there and by extension dolby's, especially since he has meta

gth a team that makes sense (just off PoE and my random gut pings)

dolby / knights / wisdom

that's if we take maple as legit and sunbae as villa, which im not sold on

i really need to read mont though

I mean the bolded is exactly why I reacted super strongly to Dolby's weird "200-215" read on me.

Like he has every right to be more skeptical than most of my play, since we have been pocketing each other as wolves since the dawn of time really, but that misrepresentation and then constantly trying to insist on the interpretation on it was jarring to say the least.

That being said I gave him more leeway because we also haven't played in a hot minute properly so shrug.

But yeah.

EnderWiggin

08-16-2024, 16:14

ig problem is with wisdom and maple being two wolves then benneh outing to kill ladd is p much game losing so idk whats up with that but feels very unlikely.

anyhow kill them both listen to dya or something idfk lmaoooo

Vote: Wisdom
Vote: Maple

cya.

Honestly think there's like... one max in there.

For very similar reasons.

Benneh's actions straight up read like someone who doesn't mind drawing attention to yeet Ladd. Obviously Ladd is a great person to daykill when town, but unless you have at least some part of your team deep then putting yourself in danger is just a bad move.

And forgive me for bringing up the thing Arctic was harping on about, but...

Benneh's a good wolf.

I don't think he makes that move if his wolf team is precarious. I think maybe max 1 wolf was in contention EOD for wagons. And most of the others were outside of immediate danger and likely clear of danger for a few days.

Which is part of why I think Dolby fits very well, aside from the spew reads and my general sus.

EnderWiggin

08-16-2024, 16:15

EnderWiggin

08-16-2024, 16:17

EnderWiggin

08-16-2024, 16:22

Mmmm rather than thinking at 1:30am I think I'll sleep and try and be around for EOD.

I actually have a morning free to WW! It's madness.

See y'all in like 6 or 7 hours when I am unable to sleep again.

Maple

08-16-2024, 18:46

Why are you sure wolves have an odd night kill?

Like idk it's weird that your "evidence" posts kinda try to use it as an argument as if you know it's objective truth.

I don't *think* they do, necessarily. That's just a hypothesis. If they have a full vigi, it most likely stacked with jan (twice) and were saved.

I'm gonna be real, chat, it's hard for me to not try and murder wisdom here with how they're playing around my slot lol

grr

08-16-2024, 18:46

grr

08-16-2024, 18:51

I hope you did read my other posts because I quote like... 3 or 4 different examples of Wisdom being shaded/pushed by Benneh.

nope i didnt but i just read through bennehs entire iso and i already forgot about them again there was some d1 stuff that was weird af but ig i could see why ladd thought it wasnt w/w? he didnt wanna bank the game on it d3 anymore, shrug. pretty sure they didnt make me feel like that's unaligned tho cuz i probably would have remembered it if i felt about anyone strongly.

i am not sure how much the LATEGAME shade mattered?

Dolby

08-16-2024, 18:52

lost 50 bucks in poker last night, stay in school kids

Dolby

08-16-2024, 18:53

I actually have a personal read that there's a deeper wolf than Dolby but also idk where to even start on that rn and I just want to get the POE sorted better before coming back to thinking about tinfoil.

unforutnately have to agree bc knights/wisdom/monty/maple feels like it doesn't contain three

grr

08-16-2024, 18:54

Maybe I'm just biased. He went from town reading me d1-d2 to just nopeing that. He even had good reasoning when town reading me! Smh

sigh.

Dolby

08-16-2024, 18:57

Maybe I'm just biased. He went from town reading me d1-d2 to just nopeing that. He even had good reasoning when town reading me! Smh

isn't this exactly what you did to vanta

Dolby

08-16-2024, 19:01

Is Maple a major wagon rn? Want to make sure it isn't and Gemma you should move your vote, trust.

Tbph I can see moving to Knights today but I have very strong disagreements with the following conclusions that people have made

1. Benneh's Wisdom read spews Wisdom v. I strongly disagree with this. I feel like the moments that Benneh got on Wisdom were broadly more in conjuction to thread consensus than, in contrast, Maple

2. That Benneh would not vote Ladd and simply let Maple go over. If Wisdom is a wolf I can totally see him voting ladd out, since Ladd can potentially post himself out of it if Wisdom is a wolf the next day, and more quite a few people in the game, Benneh is the person they were going after if they began thinking that Ladd is town. I can totally see that as a pairred vote

Dolby

08-16-2024, 19:01

I don't have much time grr any chance you have a approximate VC?

Maple

08-16-2024, 19:07

The only reason ladd went over in the first place is because he went to bed, coupled with the people most likely to shield him (me jan sunbae) also *all* either being in bed or afk. If I'm a wolf in his shoes and I think I can swing it over, I *go* for it. Then try to post my way out of it the next day (which dya just taking him out being a good move because of that lol, i used to say that in some situations like that you just shouldn't give me a chance to talk because I can be *very* convincing so you if it doesn't hurt your wincon, just kill me before I get the chance)

Feeling somewhat ill today which fuckin sucks.

Dolby

08-16-2024, 19:10

sunbae if u rly believe maple is a villager can u talk about why u think jan would have not killed

i cant make sense of a world where jan doesnt execute there

cuz imo spew and whatever else is basically secondary to that

and also wrt ur spew reads i just dont see u taking into account that benneh could be bussing / talking about what makes his pushes on wisdom/maple distinctly nonbussy and taking the context of those pushes within their gamestate into account

eg ur saying benneh pushing maple super hard day 2 makes maple v except everyone thought maple was outed day 2 no?

in maple/benneh worlds what else is benneh meant to do there

im also vaguely aware of benneh having hellbussed before and sure i think its like baseline a good look for ppl benneh def wanted to kill but the leap to clearing slots off spew alone is another thing, idk maybe im just blind to the truth

i tried to write this in as neutral language as possible rather than the usual wild shit is ay to entertain myself hope it worked

Gemma here's the thing

I believe that Jan didn't execute Maple last night. I was feeling that even when he was saying that he was executing Maple that he wasn't completely sold on it. I think that if Wisdom died and flipped v he would have still executed Maple, but the ladd wagon at end of day probably would indicate to Jan the following

1. Benneh is outted for that vote (have talked a bit about why this only applies to benneh and not vanta)
2. Benneh's interactions with Maple simply dont make sense as partners unless Maple has a weak role. Yes Benneh could be hellbussing but I just feel how strongly he went for Maple, both over the course of all of day two and parts of day three, as just really excessive if partners together. Like, Benneh wanted maple dead with a passion. Beyond this, Benneh was pretty into the maple push before people began saying that Maple was outted. can't quote posts rn but yeah

Dolby

08-16-2024, 19:10

grr

08-16-2024, 19:11

so like. umm. did maple actually kill arctic with pgo. because. idk if that has ever been cleared up in any capacity but 3 town deaths one night still kinda wild isnt it. neutral was gone alr. i lowkey thought some town might have popped bopolis for the stuff dya pointed out last at EoD (thot maybe dya themselves, i found it also a bit pingy).

the only reason i'd be kinda surprised is cuz, maple announced pgo openly in thread so. uhhh. didnt expect he would shoot there?

also like. where did that "wisdoms PR claim doesnt check out" thing disappear to. lmao. yesterday everyone was like oh yeah thats not a thing probs and today is like ???

yeah ig bottom line is idfk what yall are doing ngl.

Maple

08-16-2024, 19:11

maple help do you have any sense of what the approximate vc is

I think its like 3 or so votes on wisdom and i and then random votes elsewhere?

i wasnt exactly keeping count lol

Dolby

08-16-2024, 19:12

grr

08-16-2024, 19:15

Wisdom 3 Dolby, insomnia, grr
Dolby 2 Maple, Enderwiggin
maple 2 wisdom, gemma
knightofneeee 1 dyachei

i think this is VC currently.

Dolby

08-16-2024, 19:18

ok cool

Jan visited Dya last night so he wasn't roleblocked, Maple isn't a townlock or anything but I think they aren't a good yeet today.

grr

08-16-2024, 19:20

ok cool

Jan visited Dya last night so he wasn't roleblocked, Maple isn't a townlock or anything but I think they aren't a good yeet today.

how'd you know?

Dolby

08-16-2024, 19:22

how'd you know?

tracked him

I know this is an insane use of a track but I thought it would be a good proxy if Maple was alive today. Am a JOAT, used a doc on Stett N1 and roleblock on Maple N2

Maple

08-16-2024, 19:25

Dolby so dyachei and sunbae both have wisdom/ben as not w/w

i guess based on day play

but there's the possible w/w potential with like the whole picking up the wagon and moving it to ladd

I'm of two minds here. 1) Killing ladd can be seen as worth it in and of itself (i wish language evolved to just make inandofitself be one word, that'd go so hard). It's pretty big to get him to go over esp if you're voting with our only mech confirm (dya, who voted there first). 2) Would ben see the risk of swapping to ladd (against the plan + generally very wolfy to do) to be worth it independently? Or would further upside be required?

Upside 1) Jan is still locked into jailing me. I think it is very reasonable for him to think I am dying either way and that Jan wouldnt deviate from the plan, however even if jan *does* perhaps he thinks surviving to the next day he can just get me to go over after killing jan?
Upside 2) Save w!wisdom, or save v!wisdom for a future ml. Straight forward.

Downside 1) If dya still has a shot left and lied about the claim, there is immense risk here (obviously). Does he believe that they are *truly* out of shots? I would assume yes based on taking the risky line, that or just didn't think about it in general.
Downside 2) Jan really didn't want ladd to die. Ladd dying increases the odds of jan deviating from the plan. Further, if jan *lied* about jailing me (which he was genuinely considering doing, or so he tells me(i was also considering not sending him the card and just saying fuck it cause I didnt want the card-haver to die(which would have been rewarded cause *presumably* if someone else got a medic save they save jan there so lol) and we both *did* regret it come the night phase)

~~~

ANYWAY

with all of this in mind.

And the posts made by sunbae and dya.

What's the vibe?

grr

08-16-2024, 19:25

I think I came up with the maple killed arctic with pgo theory but don't believe it anymore

think that wisdom is a wolf for posting unrelated to their claim

tracked him

I know this is an insane use of a track but I thought it would be a good proxy if Maple was alive today. Am a JOAT, used a doc on Stett N1 and roleblock on Maple N2

so i assume you are just saying you are a wolf I assume?

Maple

08-16-2024, 19:25

fucking christ man

i don't even know

grr

08-16-2024, 19:25

so i assume you are just saying you are a wolf I assume?
dyachei

grr

08-16-2024, 19:26

I mean sure

Vote: Maple

Vote: Dolby

lol

grr

08-16-2024, 19:26

oki bye

Maple

08-16-2024, 19:27

Dolby

08-16-2024, 19:28

wrt to my d2 day play btw, I had a strong sense that Maple/Ladd/Wisdom was the wolf team. Arctic into PGO theory was an attempt to see if I could identify wolf TMI (I actually thought that benneh looked good off of interactions with regard to me on that ugh)

Tbh I think that Benneh just killed ladd regardless of Wisdom's alignment and it isn't an action that really indicates anything towards Wisdom tbh. Ladd has potenital to make himself a non elim today, but Wisdom didn't seem like they could

I think that Sunbae has been really towny off of day play today

Dolby

08-16-2024, 19:30

If you're a wolf, you're just using the publicly available claims and such to make a claim that is strictly speaking all correct.

But every action you took is ~reasonable.

Why track Jan over someone else?

Can't track the factional and began operating under the theory that wolves had an ENV. If wolves had an arsonist, I don't think I would have been able to identify them through last nights action tbh (especially since if they do have an arsonist they likely ignited stett n2)

Maple

08-16-2024, 19:33

Okay claims

I'm basically a JOAT who receives random NAs, turns into inventor

Ender is *something* (enhancer), doesn't know what they do and we don't have a full claim for it yet i guess

Jan was a JKer (RB+pro) **recieves a 1x vigi when inverted**

Dya is a 2x vigi, disrupted by night actions

Wisdom is 2x FF

Dolby is JOAT (medic/rb/track/?)

~~~

So the inverter. I think they have to claim. I have like 2 setup reads and I can't really out them until the inverter claims, just because ya know infosec or whatever.

am I missing anything?

Dolby

08-16-2024, 19:34

to be clear, I thought it was more valuable to establish if Jan had or had not been roleblocked then finding a random action. I've been dripping TMI that Jan had been roleblocked all of today. I also considered tracking Wisdom to see if they moved last night but I don't think they explicitly stated their n2 anymore
grr you can't really see me/maple as teammed right?

Visor

08-16-2024, 19:34

Players Votes

Dolby 3 (Maple, EnderWiggin, grr)
Wisdom 2 (Dolby, insomnia)
Maple 2 (Wisdom, Gemma)
Theknightsofneeee 1 (dyachei)

whatthistextdo

beleive this is correct

Maple

08-16-2024, 19:35

vote: unvote

need to sort this out, we can't maj

Sunbae

08-16-2024, 19:36

What exactly is a pko or pgo or whatever ability was being floated? Is it an action?

Dolby

08-16-2024, 19:37

What exactly is a pko or pgo or whatever ability was being floated? Is it an action?

Maple has a one shot paranoid gun owner (which shoots everyone who visits her when activated). This was from when they gave themselves a card n1 before they were inverted

Maple

08-16-2024, 19:38

What exactly is a pko or pgo or whatever ability was being floated? Is it an action?

I have the 10 of swords. At night, I can activate it. I haven't given the specifics, but it gives me the ability to kill someone who visits me if I jump through a couple specific hoops. I haven't claimed what those hoops are yet so they cannot be played around.

Sunbae

08-16-2024, 19:40

Dolby

08-16-2024, 19:42

Ok, my question is because Dolby has said he roleblocked manti on n2 but on day 3 made the argument that manti was the one that killed Arctic on that night and I am trying to see if this is an inconsistency or if thats fine

look

If I was a wolf and making a fake claim I would have claimed to block Wisdom because of that (heck, I even brought that theory and that it came from me on this page 2 minutes before making the claim)

Maple was my strong wolfread but wolves would have TMI that they straight up killed arctic. I was pushing that theory to see if there was any resistance to it that was not natural.

Sunbae

08-16-2024, 19:49

Gemma,

My concern with the idea that Benneh was just distancing with Wisdom is that Benneh was actively trying to kill Wisdom multiple times when it became viable in addition to defending himself from Wisdom once Wisdom started suspecting there and in addition to the way he was trying to make mechanical arguments on why Wisdom should die. It just did not seem partner-y in the slightest to me (and I feel like Dya also has come to this conclusion and they also have lots of Benneh experience).

I can maybe see Maple being a bus once the claim happened but he also actively tried to argue maple was wolf kp and should die over the likes of others which, i think we're all in agreement that maple IS a big wolf PR if wolf right? So idk, him trying to push maple over at points also doesn't seem right. As for pushing ladd over at the end I think thats easy: what wolf wouldnt want to kill ladd if they had the chance!

Sunbae

08-16-2024, 19:58

Ok so if I understand all of the claim situations:

On day 2 Maple said they have a self confirming role that will happen overnight. The thread, which had found Maple wolfy enough to force a claim, agrees to kill Rask over Maple in an effort to let Maple's claim self resolve.

Dolby, a JOAT, roleblocks Maple

On day 3, we open with 3 deaths. The argument provided is that Maple's PGO - an item that kills anyone who targets them last night - was activated and killed Arctic, who is likely villa even vig given the "death is KP" post Arctic made.

Dolby then puts forth the argument that Maple's PGO is what killed Arctic.

On day 3, the thread once against allows Maple to live because Jan can jailkeep, talk to maple, and then execute.

On night 3, Dolby tracks Jan to Dya.

On day 4, Manti claims that Jan jailkept Maple (a day action), received a protective card, and that card was used on Dya. Due to receiving a protective card, Jan allows Maple to live. Jan is killed in the night.

Here is my conclusion:

Having Dolby claim a track of Jan to Dya makes me believe Manti. Benneh's spew makes me want to villa read Manti.

What I do not believe is that Dolby as a villager can argue that Maple's PGO is an item that - in Dolby's own words - "Kills everyone who targets Maple in the night" and killed Arctic ON THE SAME NIGHT DOLBY VISITED MAPLE. And then use that argument as a means to push Maple. If Dolby believes this, Dolby would be dead because again, Dolby visited Maple that same night.

What I think instead is that Dolby is just a wolf roleblocker, blocked Maple to prevent the "self resolving" thing (which the specifics weren't known yet at that point), and then blocked Jan last night to prevent a Maple kill because keeping Maple alive to muddy the waters is pro-wolf on those two nights.

In addition to all of this, I have found my reads to be pointing to a Dolby wolf world as well as found interaction with Benneh to be partnery.

All things considered I will be Vote: Dolby and hope it is a hit

Maple

08-16-2024, 20:00

Dolby, did you at any point soft that you were going to be visiting me in the night?

Dolby

08-16-2024, 20:01

Dolby, did you at any point soft that you were going to be visiting me in the night?

don't think me or Cobalt softed at any point

Sunbae

08-16-2024, 20:02

Maple has a one shot paranoid gun owner (which shoots everyone who visits her when activated). This was from when they gave themselves a card n1 before they were inverted

that makes me want to kill maple even more

might be brainrotting rn but what if Maple's PGO was real/gave immunity, and that's what killed Arctic

also gonna say, firmly believe that Rask did shoot Sheep

Bop and Stett were both probably mafia KP (assuming maf have a even night vig or something like that) if that's the case

Maple has a one shot paranoid gun owner (which shoots everyone who visits her when activated). This was from when they gave themselves a card n1 before they were inverted

tracked him

I know this is an insane use of a track but I thought it would be a good proxy if Maple was alive today. Am a JOAT, used a doc on Stett N1 and roleblock on Maple N2

Here are the three things I mean

Dolby

08-16-2024, 20:06

Sunbae

Why would I consciously claim this when I demonstrated immediately before the claim that I was well aware that. I would probably fake claim a roleblock on Wisdom if so. Maple visiting Arctic was a specific attempt to see if certain people would exhibit TMI and unfortunately it led to me generating bad reads (Benneh) from it

I also began dripping that Jan wasn't roleblocked back here

Yeah Ender is just town imo. Benneh used multiple people's sus on Ender as a way to try to direct greater sus towards him, and I've just feeling the villa energy from him since

Also irregardless of mech Maple just looks good from how Benneh treated her. I also do believe that Jan got the card and the card used used on Dya

kinda thinking that I was wrong to dismiss what ladd was saying about knights yesterday.

but w/e today is wisdom day

Dolby

08-16-2024, 20:08

I think I came up with the maple killed arctic with pgo theory but don't believe it anymore

think that wisdom is a wolf for posting unrelated to their claim

specifically right here before my claim I demonstrate a level of awareness of the position. If I was a wolf I'd probably fake claim a roleblock on Wisdom. Also would probably help Wisdom if Wisdom is a wolf KP

Sunbae

08-16-2024, 20:10

Maple has a one shot paranoid gun owner (which shoots everyone who visits her when activated). This was from when they gave themselves a card n1 before they were inverted

Hmmm, ok let me think some Dolby. I wanna see what others have to say too about it. I admit I sometimes jump the gun on things I think I caught! Gonna go get food and chew on this info some.

Sunbae

08-16-2024, 20:11

The multiquote from hell keeps being stuck lol

Wisdom

08-16-2024, 20:14

isn't this exactly what you did to vanta

I town read vanta for a few hours d1 based on vibes, I'd say that's not the same thing. But I'm back to town leaning him, so, yay?

Sunbae

08-16-2024, 20:15

I think I have 19 posts left after this.

I'm going to save them for an hour or two from now just in case.

I wanna give people the time to come in, see the updated info, and have enough posts to work through their responses.

Also wanna chew on the dolby thing cause I can kind of see "im gonna put forth an idea i know is false because im alive and see if anyone starts pushing it" and he does believe the card early today. hmmm

let me unvote for now

Wisdom

08-16-2024, 20:17

Dolby

08-16-2024, 20:17

Anyway to explain my day play a bit

I felt that Maple was just a wolf and kinda outted, I was super skeeved out by ladd's treatment of Maple and Wisdom (which made me trust Wisdom at EOD more). Maple into Arctic theory was generated to see how people would react to it. I knew that Maple wasn't wolf KP at that point, and I assumed that Wisdom wasn't wolf KP was the two shot firefighter claim. I specifically generated that theory to see how people would react around it. Since both were presumably about equivalent value wolves, I imagined that those against the theory were more likely to have TMI on Arctic straight up having been shot.

In the v/w rather than w/w worlds that would tell a separate story but I don't htink I need to write that one would mean.

Dolby

08-16-2024, 20:20

I'd be really surprised if Dolby managed to tunnel me this hard as a wolf. It's like everything I post gets frowned upon. Tunnels are town indicative and the way he just goes on is just really hard to fake. We're not yeeting Dolby today.

Wisdom how do you feel about Monty and Knights right now? Tbh I think you're circumstantially a likely wolf but in retro I am not liking Knights continued drop off and think that Monty just hasn't been towny (including the eod1 vote)