Star Wars: Fall of the Order [Concluded]

[Chaotix]

If you cannot learn to control the Dark Side, then you must be removed.

It is nothing personal, Gith Ranay. You are simply an obstacle in my way.

[Seon]

Accept his proposal, that is the only way you may save yourself, Girth.

But that does not mean that this is the last you hear of the Jedi, master Bane.

[Nightbringer]

If you cannot learn to control the Dark Side, then you must be removed.

It is nothing personal, Gith Ranay. You are simply an obstacle in my way.

It can only be personal at this point Bane.
I had thought that perhaps your neutral point of view would allow you to see the logic in coexistence, but no, you are just like the Sith, you care only for power and the domination of others. If you were truly so enlightened and powerful as you claim to be you could see that continuing to fight will only lead to your eventual death. Even if you do defeat me, it will only show that you have no ability to reason, only blind passion and greed.

I care not for myself Master Seon, this is about the greater good of the galaxy. Those who force their will upon others must be resisted.

[Seon]

Girth, for the Force's sake, don't you realize that your survival would be more beneficial to the galaxy than your senseless death?

Reconsider, please! Doing good and studying the Darkside may not be mutually exclusive yet. You can still try to do good!

[Nightbringer]

Girth, for the Force's sake, don't you realize that your survival would be more beneficial to the galaxy than your senseless death?

Reconsider, please! Doing good and studying the Darkside may not be mutually exclusive yet. You can still try to do good!

Its Gith, not Girth, by the way.

I cannot follow your advice alone Seon, I must see what other deceased have to say.

[Chaotix]

Girth, for the Force's sake, don't you realize that your survival would be more beneficial to the galaxy than your senseless death?

Reconsider, please! Doing good and studying the Darkside may not be mutually exclusive yet. You can still try to do good!

Sio Eroseeth, I believe that Gith Ranay has been too far indoctrinated with the Jedi code to even consider becoming a Dark Jedi. I do not believe it is possible for him to open his mind willingly at this point; the only way would be for him to attack me using the Dark Side, and even that is a stretch.

It is most likely that Ranay will die a Jedi, just as he lived. He will be the last of his kind.

[Nightbringer]

Sio Eroseeth, I believe that Gith Ranay has been too far indoctrinated with the Jedi code to even consider becoming a Dark Jedi. I do not believe it is possible for him to open his mind willingly at this point; the only way would be for him to attack me using the Dark Side, and even that is a stretch.

It is mostly likely than Ranay will die a Jedi, just as he lived. He will be the last of his kind.

I have never rejected the concept of a balance between light and dark sides of the force, what I reject is your methods. You began by telling you that I must join you or be swept aside, that is conversion by force. Conversion by force is not a neutral and balanced view of the force, it is an attempt to enforce what you think is best upon the world. In my mind at least, that is the very definition of evil.

Can you not see that it would be better to let both of our ways live, to let each choose for him or her self if they wishes to be a Jedi Knight, or a disciple of your way?

[Chaotix]

I am in no way trying to convert you by force. I am not really trying at all. I am giving you a choice.

You can stay a Jedi, or you can join me (if you even can join me).

If you take the first option, I will have to kill you. The Jedi are useless to this world as the Sith, and I aim to remove them both entirely.

[Cecil XIX]

How unfortunate that after decrying the hypocrisy of the Jedi and Sith, you yourself demand that all others must follow your way of the Force or die. You should reconsider the value of pluralism, Bane Anded.

Stand strong, Gith Ranay.

[Nightbringer]

I am in no way trying to convert you by force. I am not really trying at all. I am giving you a choice.

You can stay a Jedi, or you can join me (if you even can join me).

If you take the first option, I will have to kill you. The Jedi are useless to this world as the Sith, and I aim to remove them both entirely.

Once again you contradict yourself Bane, you say you are not trying to force me to follow you? Is stating that you will kill me if I do not join you anything but attempting to force me to do so? No, you have nothing but false choices. If you truly believed in choice, you would let me walk away having decided to stay with the light side of the force, as I have said I would do for you.

[pevergreen]

I hope you both remember the storyline here, only the Jedi on Corusacant came on this ship, hundreds and hundreds are alive elsewhere, you aren't the only two remaining or anything.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I hope you both remember the storyline here, only the Jedi on Corusacant came on this ship, hundreds and hundreds are alive elsewhere, you aren't the only two remaining or anything.

Bonus points for pever for remembering the story.

The Jedi Order still exists. But what will come of Coruscant itself?

[Khazaar]

It doesn´t matter, Gith. He can only destroy your body, you will become one with the force like we have and so much more powerful. We can teach others even if we have failed here, no need to give up the true way.

Bane, you have preached coexistence, now practice it. You´ve been promoted to Grandmaster by a true Jedi, so your title stands. Those who would like to learn from you will join you, those who don´t will learn from Gith or the Ghosts.

[Ironside]

Ugh, poor play in two rounds, who incidently also were the two most important ones.

Gah!

[Askthepizzaguy]

If you guys would like, I can begin leaking the post-game information. Especially the non-sensitive stuff.


Shall I?

[Renata]

Thanks.

[Ironside]

If you guys would like, I can begin leaking the post-game information. Especially the non-sensitive stuff.


Shall I?

Sure.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Wall of the Commentary


Episode I: The Phantom Setup

Game Description:

• Huge Mafia Game
• 50+ players (but can be played with 40)
• Standard Day/Night phases

Write-up description

• Each writeup will include images and music.
• Upon death: Those who die will be named, and their alignment will be revealed.

Game features

• Jedi can prefer to become more skilled with the force, or with the lightsaber.
• The names of the characters will be all new.... no one will seem guilty or innocent based on canonical information about their character.
• Follows in the footsteps of Sigurd's great game, Return of the Sith, in quite a number of ways, but will be fresh and unique in its own right.
• More force powers, and a dizzying array of abilities.
• Features at least 7 lightsaber forms, allows for double-blade and twin lightsaber combat.
• Some force powers progress to more powerful forms.
• Modified Jedi promotion system
• Sith and their cool red lightsabers.
• Neat surprises.

Premise

After Sigurd's game, which was certainly innovative and fun and popular enough to be in the running for Game of the Year, it got me thinking about the Star Wars game I wanted to host, and how lame it was in comparison.

I actually ended up using my idea for Star Wars for my Star Fox: Lylat Wars game, which was to have the Emperor Palpatine (Andross, in this case) embedded among the Separatists, with a goal to destroy all Loyalists and all the Separatists. As you might remember, this turned into Andross being embedded among the Star Wolf team, attempting to use them as puppets and destroy them at the final moment. Should the Wolf team outlive Andross, they would become true mafia, and have the goal of ruling the Cornerian system for themselves. Instead, they had a chance to win with the Cornerians/neutrals, as long as they achieved their personal goals.

When Sigurd's Star Wars game was done, he was met with enormous praise for his exceptional work, and some criticisms of the game setup. Whether the criticisms were fair or not, it was agreed that the outcome of the game was basically forced to be a showdown between a Jedi Grandmaster and two Sith, and unless the Sith were not very powerful, the Grandmaster would lose, and the Master Sith would probably defeat the Apprentice Sith and become the sole winner of the game. Some didn't like that system as much, and felt that the game was less a mafia game and more like a battle royale. As awesome as that game was, the Jedi felt like there needed to be a way to break the cycle of infinite recruitment; or at the very least, be able to destroy the Master and the Apprentice in rapid succession to stop them from continuing to recruit Jedi. When he offered to let someone see his game files, images, and so forth, I eagerly volunteered. He also allowed for someone to use them if they wanted to, and I asked if I could make a sequel. I took some of the honest feedback from the other players and began from square one. I had already used my previous idea for the Lylat game, so I wanted to accomplish two things.

1. Do a service to the original game, and not alter too much of what everyone found awesome about it.
2. Make the game just as unpredictable and fun as the first, even though the basic premise has been done before.

I liked the idea of the Rule of Two, and because it was based in canon Star Wars information, I left that in; A Master, and an Apprentice. The master could recruit a new apprentice, and the apprentice could replace the fallen Master and recruit another apprentice. What I changed was, I didn't make everyone susceptible to recruitment, based on feedback from the previous game. I also didn't make recruitment random or automatic, based on that same feedback. I felt that system worked great for what Sigurd was trying to accomplish; in this game, I wanted to try out a different system.



Dark One

But I did like the idea of a Sith Mastermind, in the same vein as Palpatine... a dark puppetmaster in the shadows, controlling everyone and everything while at the same time pretending to be a model Jedi.... concealed by an illusion so powerful, only a Grandmaster could conclusively determine they were Sith. This Mastermind would be the most powerful Sith of all time.... a Dark Force capable of keeping the Sith from extinction, and using them as his puppets without their knowledge. He would be nearly unbeatable in one-on-one combat, and could nearly defeat the entire Jedi Order by himself.

Obviously, the Sith are not a unified force. There is already a Rule of Two. But this Sith would be the Rule of One.... an ancient Dark Lord, centuries old, with the goal of raising an army and overthrowing the Republic, using the Sith as his pawns, so that he could conquer the entire galaxy, and become strong enough with the Dark Side to become immortal, and maintain everlasting and eternal domination over all other beings. This Sith would destroy the Jedi utterly, and wipe away all of history, so that there would never be any knowledge of the Jedi, or the Light Side of the Force. This Sith would crush everyone who stands in his way, and spread propaganda which would convince generations upon generations of sentient beings to believe that he is the Creator and the Destroyer of worlds, a God incarnate, the ultimate judge and the purest force of Good in the galaxy.

In time, he would be worshiped as a God and given anything that he wanted, which was total, undisputed power over everyone and everything in the Universe. Immune to death, protected by the Force, and utterly unstoppable, even by armies and battleships, this Sith would become the Dark Lord of the Universe... the One Sith to rule them all, pardon the pun. What could I possibly name this Dark Lord besides Darth Kojiro, honestly? It's the only name which fits.

Such a powerful being needs a counterweight. The Grandmaster of the Jedi Order, the most powerful representative of the Light Side of the Force, could indeed destroy this Dark One. The Grandmaster would learn ways to counter the Dark Side, and penetrate his cloak. Near-unbeatable in combat, the Grandmaster would also be able to develop specific attacks and defenses which could counter the dark side powers that a Dark Lord of the Sith could use. However, to be fair, since the Grandmaster also has the Jedi Council and legions of Padawans and Initiates at his or her disposal, the Grandmaster must start with significantly less power than the Dark Lord, and must be forced to learn over time the techniques that can be used to destroy it.

However, the Jedi Council itself is numerous, and just barely powerful enough to bring the Dark One to justice, if they are clairvoyant enough to determine who this Dark One is, and repeatedly attempt to destroy this being. On the second attempt, the Dark One will be overcome by their numbers, and defeated. So a strong Grandmaster is not necessary to counter this Dark One.



Sith Lords

The Sith Lords..... the Rule of Two. They would also be able to counter this Dark Lord's power. The Sith Lord (Darth Sigurd) and his apprentice would have access to 5 out of 6 types of Dark Side attacks, the Sith Lord would have access to tier III powers and the apprentice would have access to tier II powers. They would eventually both be able to attack twice, giving them up to 4 different powerful attacks in a given night, and so together, they were indeed more powerful than the Dark One. They could have penetrated Kojiro's cloak and defeated him with a single shot, but 4 different powerful attacks at the same time? Odds were against Kojiro surviving such an assault. And so, if the Sith Lords discovered who Kojiro was, they could have destroyed him themselves.



Jedi Order

So the Grandmaster, the Normal Jedi, and the Sith Lords were all able to counter Kojiro. But there was another faction.... a far weaker faction. In this game, I wanted there to be an alignment system that was more nuanced than the previous game. In the last game, only the Jedi Grandmaster couldn't be converted. Everyone else was susceptible. I felt it was more realistic for actions and events to affect alignment, such that a Jedi can become stronger with the Light Side, or stronger with the Dark Side.

If a Jedi fell far enough to the Dark Side, they would have used forbidden powers or broken the Jedi Code in such a way that they would normally be expelled from the Jedi Order. The Dark Side would be so tempting that it would be difficult to turn back to the light side, but not impossible. When a Jedi falls to the Dark Side, they become neutral, and their goal then becomes either to survive the game, return to the light side so they can be redeemed, or become a Sith and win with the Sith. When a Jedi falls to the Dark Side, they become capable of learning more and more Dark Side powers. Using these powers can push you even further to the Dark Side. Dishonorable or evil acts can also cause one to fall to the Dark Side. Heroic and selfless acts, or proper teachings, can turn someone back from the Dark Side. The only ones who couldn't be redeemed were the Sith.



Fallen Jedi

Generally all alone, and not as strong with the light or dark sides as other Jedi/Sith, the Dark Jedi were the weakest "faction" in the game. They were either a neutral vigilante with a survival goal and a way to win with the Jedi, or a serial killer bent on destruction of the Jedi, depending on your point of view. But they, too, had a path to power which could allow them to destroy the Sith (or the Jedi).

Dark Side powers are generally stronger offensively in this game. A Dark Side Jedi can feed on its own dark side powers, and become stronger and stronger with the Dark Side. The further they fall, the more powerful they become. They will start to learn Dark Side powers every single night, and eventually learn nothing but Dark Side powers, if they live long enough.

Through this, it was possible for some Jedi to fall completely to the Dark Side, and destroy the Sith using their own Dark Side powers. Then, if they chose, they could win with the Jedi Order, and be forgiven for their fall to the Dark Side, because they used it in defense of the Republic, and of their fellow Jedi, and a path toward redemption was discovered. Perhaps, with a Dark Jedi Grandmaster, the Jedi Order could become enlightened enough to use the Dark Side for knowledge and defense, and not for evil. They could learn to control it. And therefore, the Jedi and the Dark Jedi would become essentially one. Falling to the Dark Side left one vulnerable to the temptations of the Sith. They could easily be turned to serve the Sith.



Bane of the Dark Side

Realizing that no one began the game as a Neutral Jedi, and also realizing it was entirely possible for most of the game to go by without anyone becoming Dark Jedi, I didn't want a Dark Jedi faction to be a weakling afterthought. I wanted the Dark Jedi to have a chance, even a slim one, to win.

So, I wanted to have a Neutral Jedi right from the start. Here are the issues with that:

1. A neutral Jedi has a survival goal. It's unlikely to survive 66 other players, without executing some kind of.... order.... involving the number sixty-something. Therefore, this Jedi can't be a total weakling, for starters.
2. This Neutral Jedi would become overpowered if they learned Dark Side powers too quickly. Therefore, their alignment needed to be further "light side" at the start than normal.
3. It needed to be possible for this Neutral to go fully light side, so they can win even in death.
4. It needed to be possible for this Neutral to become a Sith, so they can win that way as well.
5. This Neutral needed to scan as not strong with the Dark Side, at least at first, so they wouldn't be mistaken for a Sith and lynched early. That's just unfair.
6. This Neutral needed a way to gain dark side points and eliminate rivals. Thus, this neutral needed to be a vigilante.


For balancing purposes, I made this Neutral naturally resistant to the influence of the Sith, so that this anomaly wouldn't simply be absorbed into the Sith Order, and forgotten/have no impact on the game. So, only a tier II conversion would be able to turn this one into a Sith, no matter how powerful he became with the Dark Side.

In this way, this outsider.... this rogue Jedi, could become a powerful assassin, working to save the Jedi Order.... working, perhaps, to destroy the Sith. He certainly wants to be independent, and does not want to be Sith. They would have to prove how much more powerful they were than him, in order to secure his reluctant loyalty. Thus, Bane was created. The Dark knight of the Jedi order, their most powerful weapon besides the Grandmaster.

Should Bane fall all the way to the Dark Side, he would gain Dark Side Mastery and become almost like a Grandmaster himself, and be able to learn 5 dark side powers per night until maximum. Then he would truly be deadly. And, just like the Sith, if he should ever become Grandmaster, then he will be able to learn his Dark Side powers from the Sith holocron data contained in the Jedi Holocron, and the Light Side Powers contained within the Jedi Holocron. However, given the unique nature of this character, he would be effectively a Sith Grandmaster and a Jedi Grandmaster combined; with Dark Side Mastery and Light Side Grandmaster-level powers, he would have the potential to be the most powerful Jedi ever.

It took a long time, but Bane Anded was able to attain Dark Side Mastery, and he also became Grandmaster of the Order. As he was now the most powerful Jedi in history, he was granted the title "Supreme Grandmaster", and sought to re-make the Jedi Order in his own image.... abandoning much of the rigid Jedi Code, and teaching of the power of the Dark Side, even more openly than Nomi Sunrider ever did.

He was able to win utterly with any others like him, the Dark Jedi. He was also able to win with the Sith, in a major victory, not quite as satisfying but still crushing. He could also win with the Jedi, if the Sith got stomped to death too soon. He could also decide to go for the solo victory anyway, if the Sith were all destroyed. And thus, Bane had a chance of winning even though he loses if he dies, and began with such a large handicap.

Now, we had a game on our hands.






Starting Rank for each Player


These were entirely random, provided by Random.org. I did not favor anyone with a special role; that was all the random gods, who have a remarkable sense of humor.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

DARK LORD OF THE SITH-

1. Kagemusha (RULE OF ONE) Jedi Knight Zan Finnay / Darth Kojiro

SITH LORD-

2. Psychonaut (RULE OF TWO) Jedi Padawan Bos Dhi Kao / Darth Sigurd

SITH APPRENTICE-

3. Beskar (RULE OF TWO) Jedi Initiate Jax Revus / Darth Fermanagh





JEDI GRANDMASTER-

1. Askthepizzaguy- Nomi Sunrider, Jedi Grandmaster

MASTER

2. Belisarius II- Jedi Master Sol Jade
3. pevergreen- Jedi Master Jacin Sky

KNIGHT

4. Joooray- Jedi Knight Ronen Durdon
5. Ignoramus- Jedi Knight An-Wan Dyas
6. Rebel Jeb- Jedi Knight Ushan Nihlek
7. Chaotix- Jedi Knight Bane Anded (Neutral)
8. Kagemusha (RULE OF ONE) Jedi Knight Zan Finnay / Darth Kojiro

PADAWAN

9. Captain Blackadder- Jedi Padawan Bip Kenner
10. dcmort93- Jedi Padawan Mace Wyyrlar
11. landlubber- Jedi Padawan Jenn Gon Rui
12. Beefy187- Jedi Padawan Sinadd No
13. choxorn- Jedi Padawan Mill Kunaay
14. Renata- Jedi Padawan Kenth Cogma
15. Psychonaut (RULE OF TWO) Jedi Padawan Bos Dhi Kao / Darth Sigurd

INITIATE

16. Zack Jedi Initiate Yogal Sec-barr
17. Diana Abnoba Jedi Initiate Sky Yi'do
18. Sasaki Kojiro Jedi Initiate Sec-sar Jor
19. Jolt Jedi Initiate Talnah Corham
20. Frozen in Ice Jedi Initiate Frid Fefar
21. Winston Hughes Jedi Initiate Va'ard Kypaz
22. Nictel Jedi Initiate Nor Stry-hoth
23. YLC Jedi Initiate Drafo Tylum
24. AntiKingWarmancake Jedi Initiate All'uan Kraytous
25. a completely inoffensive name Jedi Initiate Jinn Lun-yz
26. Autolycus Jedi Initiate Malious de Wal
27. wideyedwanderer Jedi Initiate Ushi Makoth
28. Stuck in Pi Jedi Initiate Si-At Unesh
29. remake20 Jedi Initiate Rian-ban Fo
30. Slysnake Jedi Initiate Kerren Cae
31. Secura Jedi Initiate Loris Midal
32. Yaropolk Jedi Initiate Yala Edak
33. Csargo Jedi Initiate Carnus Daye
34. Robbiecon Jedi Initiate Rivan Nul
35. Seon Jedi Initiate Sio Eroseeth
36. ArpeggiateTHIS Jedi Initiate Azurine Kadu
37. Death is yonder Jedi Initiate Datian Guus
38. Sprig Jedi Initiate Qui Ul'pat
39. God Emperor Jedi Initiate Ku-vect Belthon
40. ByzantineKnight Jedi Initiate Land Jamgii
41. Cute Wolf Jedi Initiate Keyeren Arva Sun
42. Sigurd Jedi Initiate Cah Andwal
43. classical_hero Jedi Initiate Mar-ial Nih Pho
44. TheFlax Jedi Initiate Pal Winoff
45. Diamondeye Jedi Initiate On-so C'ba
46. Link Jedi Initiate Taung Eeda
47. Jarema Jedi Initiate Brie-ang Gis
48. Nightbringer Jedi Initiate Gith Ranay
49. Raskolnikov Jedi Initiate Mas Amdu Kof
50. Romanic Jedi Initiate Pla-den Krul
51. Ironside Jedi Initiate Traruyn Ura
52. Soup567- Jedi Initiate Ana Riya
53: Ibn-Khaldun- Jedi Initiate Gall Rado
54: Skooma Addict- Jedi Initiate Ker-oth Ex
55: spL1tp3r50naL1ty- Jedi Initiate Ker'ral Fisid
56: civplayah- Jedi Initiate Kin Barr
57: Niklas- Jedi Initiate Le'ran Iss
58: Tincow- Jedi Initiate Lo'son Galeb
59: Major Robert Dump- Jedi Initiate Shi-la ra
60: Andres- Jedi Initiate Stre-don Rett
61: Cultured Drizzt Fan- Jedi Initiate Driz Foun
62: Double A- Jedi Initiate Mun Farlander
63: Johnhughthom- Jedi Initiate Taun Jan
64: Khazaar- Jedi Initiate Kel Dih-mar
65. Cecil XIX- Jedi Initiate Xando Caecilius
66. Yaseikhaan- Jedi Initiate Kaz'an Neimoidia
67. Greyblades- Jedi Initiate Wen Kidou
68. Beskar (RULE OF TWO) Jedi Initiate Jax Revus / Darth Fermanagh

Starting alignment of each player:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

STARTING ALIGNMENTS

Askthepizzaguy- Jedi Grandmaster Nomi Sunrider- +10

12. landlubber- Jedi Padawan Jenn Gon Rui- +3
24. AntiKingWarmancake Jedi Initiate All'uan Kraytous- +3
26. Autolycus Jedi Initiate Malious de Wal- +3
50. Romanic Jedi Initiate Pla-den Krul- +3
54: Skooma Addict- Ker-oth Ex- +3
62: Double A- Mun Farlander- +3
65. Cecil XIX- Xando Caecilius- +3

5. pevergreen- Jedi Master Jacin Sky- +1
7. Ignoramus- Jedi Knight An-Wan Dyas- +1
8. Rebel Jeb- Jedi Knight Ushan Nihlek- +1
10. Captain Blackadder- Jedi Padawan Bip Kenner- +1
13. Beefy187- Jedi Padawan Sinadd No- +1
15. Renata- Jedi Padawan Kenth Cogma- +1
16. Zack Jedi Initiate Yogal Sec-barr- +1
18. Sasaki Kojiro Jedi Initiate Sec-sar Jor- +1
20. Frozen in Ice Jedi Initiate Frid Fefar- +1
22. Nictel Jedi Initiate Nor Srty-hoth- +1
28. Stuck in Pi Jedi Initiate Si-At Unesh- +1
30. Slysnake Jedi Initiate Kerren Cae- +1
32. Yaropolk Jedi Initiate Yala Edak- +1
34. Robbiecon Jedi Initiate Rivan Nul- +1
36. ArpeggiateTHIS Jedi Initiate Azurine Kadu- +1
38. Sprig Jedi Initiate Qui Ul'pat- +1
40. ByzantineKnight Jedi Initiate Land Jamgii- +1
42. Sigurd Jedi Initiate Cah Andwal- +1
44. TheFlax Jedi Initiate Pal Winoff- +1
46. Link Jedi Initiate Taung Eeda- +1
48. Nightbringer Jedi Initiate Gith Ranay- +1
52. Soup567- Ana Riya- +1
56: civplayah- Kin Barr- +1
59: Major Robert Dump- Shi-la ra- +1
60: Andres- Stre-don Rett- +1
64: Khazaar- Kel Dih-mar- +1
67. Greyblades- Jedi Initiate Wen Kidou- +1

9. Chaotix- Jedi Knight Bane Anded (Neutral Forced Role)- 0

4. Belisarius II- Jedi Master Sol Jade: -1
6. Joooray- Jedi Knight Ronen Durdon: -1
11. dcmort93- Jedi Padawan Mace Wyyrlar: -1
14. choxorn- Jedi Padawan Mill Kunaay: -1
17. Diana Abnoba Jedi Initiate Sky Yi'do: -1
19. Jolt Jedi Initiate Talnah Corham: -1
21. Winston Hughes Jedi Initiate Va'ard Kypaz: -1
23. YLC Jedi Initiate Drafo Tylum: -1
25. ACIN Jedi Initiate Jinn Lun-yz: -1
27. wideyedwanderer Jedi Initiate Ushi Makoth: -1
29. remake20 Jedi Initiate Rian-ban Fo: -1
31. Secura Jedi Initiate Loris Midal: -1
33. Csargo Jedi Initiate Carnus Daye: -1
35. Seon Jedi Initiate Sio Eroseeth : -1
37. Death is yonder Jedi Initiate Datian Guus: -1
39. God Emperor Jedi Initiate Ku-vect Belthon: -1
41. Cute Wolf Jedi Initiate Keyeren Arva Sun: -1
43. classical_hero Jedi Initiate Mar-ial Nih Pho: -1
45. Diamondeye Jedi Initiate On-so C'ba: -1
47. Jarema Jedi Initiate Brie-ang Gis: -1
49. Raskolnikov Jedi Initiate Mas Amdu Kof: -1
51. Ironside Jedi Initiate Traruyn Ura: -1
53: Ibn-Khaldun- Gall Rado: -1
55: spL1tp3r50naL1ty- Ker'ral Fisid: -1
57: Niklas- Le'ran Iss: -1
58: Tincow- Lo'son Galeb: -1
61: Cultured Drizzt Fan- Driz Foun: -1
63: Johnhughthom- Taun Jan: -1
66. Yaseikhaan- Kaz'an Neimoidia: -1



1. Kagemusha (RULE OF ONE) Jedi Knight Zan Finnay / Darth Kojiro (Dark Lord): -10
2. Psychonaut (RULE OF TWO) Jedi Padawan Bos Dhi Kao / Darth Sigurd (Sith Lord): -10
3. Beskar (RULE OF TWO) Jedi Initiate Jax Revus / Darth Fermanagh (Sith Apprentice): -10

Alignment Key (color-coded)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Blue- Light Side Mastery- Force Enlightenment (Can never be turned to the Dark Side, even by Mind Control)
+ Force Englightenment
+ Cannot fall to the Dark Side

Teal- Strong with the Light Side of the Force (Cannot be turned to the dark side except by Mind Control) THREE
+ 2 LS

- 1 LS
Green- Light Side of the Force (Can fall back to the Dark side, but is not susceptible to Force Corrupt and does not read as susceptible. Does not read as Strong with the Light side. ONE
+ 1 LS

- 1 LS
Olive- Force Neutral (one more Dark Side action, and you will become susceptible to the Dark Side) ZERO
+ 2 LS

- 1 LS
Purple- Dark Side of the Force (Susceptible to Force Corrupt. Reads as having Dark Side tendencies, reads as convertable) NEGATIVE ONE
+ 3 LS

- 2 LS
Maroon- Strong with the Dark Side of the Force (Has fallen to the Dark side on his own, without being converted. (Neutral) Is no longer a Jedi, but a neutral. Can be converted, usually) NEGATIVE THREE

+ Converted to Sith (or, gain 10 dark side points and not Bane Anded)
+ Cannot return to the Light Side
Red- Dark Side Mastery (Is now a Sith. Cannot be turned to the Light Side, even with Force Light)





ALIGNMENT SHIFT- LIGHT SIDE:

Successful Healing action: +1
Successful Save using Alter Damage: +1
Successful Use of Force Light in battle: +1
Force Light used against me: +1
Successful Use of Force Meld to spare another: +2
Wall of Light protects me: +1
Force Enlightenment protects me: +1

ALIGNMENT SHIFT- DARK SIDE:

Using Force Cloak, or Trance: +1 (in battle)
Successful Vigilante Kill (Saber) of a Jedi: +1
Using Electric Judgment (or above) on a Jedi: + 1
Killing a Jedi in a lynch duel: +1
Surviving a Lynch with Force Breath: +1
Using Saber Form VII- Juyo: +1 (in battle)
Using Drain Knowledge to gain a Dark Side power: +1
Using a Dark Side power other than stealth: +1

Naming the Sith:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

• Darth Kojiro
• Darth Sigurd
• Darth Fermanagh
• Darth Aggony
• Darth Khaan
• Darth Abnoba
• Darth Tratorix
• Darth Kommodus
• Darth Craterus
• Darth Fangs
• Darth Kage
• Darth Chaotix
• Darth Roink
• Darth Csar
• Darth Andres
• Darth Yaropolk
• Darth pever
• Darth Beskar
• Darth Beefy
• Darth Shlin
• Darth Taka
• Darth Renata
• Darth Secura

More to come.

[Askthepizzaguy]

STAR WARS


Wall of the Commentary


Episode II: Attacks and Abilities

Saber Forms

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Form I: Shii-Cho- The Determination Form (ACTIVE Form)



Form II: Makashi- The Contention Form (ACTIVE Form)



Form III: Soresu- The Resilience Form (ACTIVE Form)



Form IV: Ataru- The Aggression Form (ACTIVE Form)



Form V: Djem So- The Perseverance Form (ACTIVE Form)



Form VI: Niman- The Moderation Form (ACTIVE Form)



Form VII Juyo- The Ferocity Form (ACTIVE Form)



--Double-bladed Saber Juyo II- The Ferocity Form (ACTIVE Form)



----Twin Saber I: Niman II- The Moderation Form (ACTIVE Form)



------Twin Saber II: Ataru II- The Aggression Form (ACTIVE Form)

Passive Force Powers

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Force Ghost- Allows vote even in death (PASSIVE)



Force Breath- Allows survival of 1 lynch (PASSIVE)



Art of Movement- basic, agility/evasion boost (30% chance of avoiding saber or projectiles) (PASSIVE)



--Battle meditation- boosts stamina and strength (lightsaber passive +1) (PASSIVE)



----Battle mind- boosts focus and morale (force passive def +1) (PASSIVE)



------Battle precognition- improves all passive defenses +1 (PASSIVE)



--------Battle Mastery- improves defenses against two attackers +1 (PASSIVE)

Active Defenses

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Alter Damage- allows lightsaber combat victory to not be fatal (ACTIVE Defense)



Saber Throw- allows push/pull of saber (+1 projectile offense) (ACTIVE Defense)



Saber Barrier- adds defense against projectiles (+1 projectile defense) (ACTIVE Defense)



Telekinetic Lightsaber combat- allows levitation of sabers and objects (+1 projectile off/def) (ACTIVE Defense)



Force Blinding- creates bright flash which can stun attacker (ACTIVE Defense)



--Force Light- weakens a dark-sider's connection to the force. (Force Blinding II) (ACTIVE Defense)



Force Deflection- repels energy projectiles (ACTIVE defense)



--Force Protection- repels many kinds of force attacks (Deflection II) (ACTIVE defense)



Force Valor- Adds 1 level to lightsaber combat and wins drawn force battles. (ACTIVE defense)



Force Stealth- allows one to hide from some scans and attacks (ACTIVE defense)



--Force Cloak- allows one to hide from most scans and attacks (Stealth II) (ACTIVE defense)



----Force Trance- can be used to appear dead, and mask one's connection to the force. (Stealth III) (ACTIVE defense)



Force Push- knocks enemy away, which can interrupt their attack or lower their defenses. (ACTIVE defense)



--Force Wave (Push II) (ACTIVE defense)



----Force Whirlwind (Push III) (ACTIVE defense)



Telekinesis- Repels physical attacks, throws, pushes, and pulls (ACTIVE defense)



Force Stun- can stun opponent, preventing certain attacks. (ACTIVE defense)



--Force Stasis (Tier II Force Stun) (ACTIVE defense)



----Force Stasis Field (Tier III Force Stun) (ACTIVE defense)



Force Sense- Allows one to sense danger approaching, counters certain force powers. (ACTIVE defense)



--Force Empathy- Allows one counter stealth attacks, counters certain force powers. (Sense II) (ACTIVE defense)



----Force Sight- Allows one to counter stealth or cloak attacks, counters certain force powers. (Sense III) (ACTIVE defense)



Force Speed- improves mental and physical speed, useful in physical combat, or to escape. (ACTIVE defense)



Force Jump- allows a force-assisted leap which can avoid many kinds of attacks. (ACTIVE defense)



Force Body- Makes one immune to pain and wounds, does not usually prevent death. (ACTIVE defense)



Force Absorb- converts incoming energy into the force, strengthens force power. (ACTIVE defense)



Force Grip- lifts opponent in the air, which negates their ability to escape or use certain powers. (ACTIVE defense)



Force Suppression- Counters certain force attacks (ACTIVE defense)



--Force Breach- Counters additional force attacks. (Suppression II) (ACTIVE defense)



----Force Sever (sever force)- Removes all active force powers from target. Not always effective. (Suppression III) (ACTIVE defense)



Force Slow- Can counter Force Speed (ACTIVE defense)



--Force Affliction- Can counter Speed, Meditation, Battlemind, Precognition, Art of Movement (Slow II) (ACTIVE defense)



----Force Plague- Can counter all battle enhancements and several passive defenses. (Slow III) (ACTIVE defense)

[Askthepizzaguy]

Episode II: Attacks and Abilities (continued)

Active Abilities

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Force Enlightenment- Defends against all dark side corruption or mind attacks. ( PASSIVE+ACTIVE )



----Wall of light- Can be used to defend against almost any attack (Protection IV) (ACTIVE Ability)



Force Healing- Can be used to heal lightsaber wounds (Protection I) (ACTIVE Ability)



--Force Revitalize- Can be used to heal force wounds (Protection II) (ACTIVE Ability)



----Force Resuscitation- Can be used to prevent death (Protection III) (ACTIVE Ability)



Electric Judgment- Allows Jedi to use Force Lightning (vigilante kill) (ACTIVE Ability)



(prerequisite: Judgment I)
--Righteous Judgment- Allows Jedi to learn Sith offensive powers during battle. (vigilante kill) (Judgment II) (ACTIVE Ability)



----Final Judgment- Allows Jedi to steal Sith offensive powers during battle. (vigilante kill) (Judgment III) (ACTIVE Ability)



Force Meld- Can be used to join another in battle. (Assist Ally) (ACTIVE Ability)



Drain Knowledge- removes one power from target and absorbs it (steal ability) (ACTIVE Ability)



Force Morichro- Acts as a roleblocking power. (Block ability) (ACTIVE Ability)



Force Vision- Allows one to see through stealth (investigation I) (ACTIVE Ability)



--Force Improved Vision- Allows one to see through stealth or cloak (investigation II) (Vision II) (ACTIVE Ability)



----Force Far Sight- Allows one to see through stealth, cloak, or Force Trance. (investigation III) (Vision III) (ACTIVE Ability)



Force Persuasion- Senses if someone can be turned to the Dark Side. (investigation IV) (ACTIVE Ability)



--Force Corrupt- Attempts to turn someone to the Dark Side. (Conversion I) (ACTIVE Ability)



----Mind Control- Forces a turn to the Dark Side. (Conversion II) (ACTIVE Ability)



Force Reanimation- Forces the midichlorians to restore life to a Sith. (REVIVE) (Once per two phases) (ACTIVE Ability)

Active Killing Powers

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Force Drain (ACTIVE Killing Ability)



--Force Vortex (Drain II) (ACTIVE Killing Ability)



----Force Maelstrom (Drain III) (ACTIVE Killing Ability)



Force Choke (ACTIVE Killing Ability)



--Force Wound (Choke II) (ACTIVE Killing Ability)



----Force Kill (Choke III) (ACTIVE Killing Ability)



Force Scream (ACTIVE Killing Ability)



--Force Crush (Scream II) (ACTIVE Killing Ability)



----Force Destruction (Scream III) (ACTIVE Killing Ability)



Force Lightning (ACTIVE Killing Ability)



--Chain Lightning (Lightning II) (ACTIVE Killing Ability)



----Force Storm (Lightning III) (ACTIVE Killing Ability)



Force Orb (ACTIVE Killing Ability)



--Force Energy (Orb II) (ACTIVE Killing Ability)



----Force Blast (Orb III) (ACTIVE Killing Ability)



Deadly Sight (ACTIVE Killing Ability)



--Force Combustion (Deadly II) (ACTIVE Killing Ability)



----Force Oblivion (thought bomb) (Deadly III) (ACTIVE Killing Ability)

Attack with Lightsaber- (Knight and above only)

Lightsaber (ACTIVE Killing Ability)- You may attack one target.



--Double-blade (ACTIVE Killing Ability)- You may attack the same target twice or perform two different actions on the same target.



--Twin saber (ACTIVE Killing Ability)- You may attack or perform two different actions on two different targets or the same target. (replaces "Lightsaber" - single active ability power)

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Dark jedi is the way to go. This game proves that the jedi should give up their pseudo-religion and embrace the use of dark side powers for good purposes.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Dark jedi is the way to go. This game proves that the jedi should give up their pseudo-religion and embrace the use of dark side powers for good purposes.

Of course, if a Jedi other than Bane Anded gains 10 dark side points, they become rogue Sith.

I found that unlikely to happen, but their goal would be to win with the Sith or the Dark Jedi, and exterminate all Jedi. So there was definitely some risk involved in going too dark. It never happened in this game.




Kage gained 5 powers per round, as did the Jedi Grandmaster (who didn't appear until after night six, for balance).
The Sith Lord gained 2 powers per round, as did the Jedi Masters.
The Sith Apprentice gained 1 power per round, as did the Jedi Knights, unless the Apprentice was already a Jedi Master.
Padawans had a 50% chance of gaining a power every round.
Initiates began with 2 powers and no lightsaber, and needed to wait 6 rounds to become Padawans.

When Bane attained Dark Side Mastery he could learn 5 dark side powers.
When he became Grandmaster he could also learn 5 powers.

This is a comparison of the power levels of the Sith, those who became Sith, and Bane Anded.

[autolycus]

I don't suppose Chaotix has chosen to win with the Jedi? :)

[Seon]

Forget what I said, Gith. If you die here, we the force ghosts shall tell the story to all the jedi in the world. Let`s see how pur new overlord likes that.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Wall of the Commentary


Episode III: Revenge of the Puns

(or)

Hindsight is 20/20

Day One Commentary: A bumpy start

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

vote: Kagemusha
Random.org rocks :)

Jarema starts things off with a wildly correct vote on Kagemusha.

Random.org LOOOOOOVES Kagemusha, as it has already blessed him with the most powerful role I've ever designed for any game, ever, ever.

Vote: pevergreen

Choxorn votes for a Jedi Master, oops. This guy is ranked third, after myself and Belisarius II.

Provided by random Gods: Vote: dcmort93

Kagemusha votes for a Jedi Padawan, the tenth highest ranked member of the Jedi order. A good vote for him!

Okay, I hadn't seen abstaining or no-lynch details anywhere.

Vote: pevergreen

Surely, you do not propose that the Sith can be reasoned with?

Another vote for pevergreen... not good. Will we lose a Master this early?

Vote: pevergreen just because I can.

Umm.....

Insert obligitory random.org vote: Khazaar

Sith lord votes for Khazaar, who is presently ranked 64th and is helpless to resist.


So far:

pevergreen: (3) Autolycus, Choxorn, Diana Abnoba
Raskolnikov: (3) Renata, ACIN, dcmort93
Sasaki: (3) Csargo, Belisarius II, Yaropolk

Unvote, Vote: pevergreen

I disapprove of bandwagoning.

He says as he bandwagons. Number 2 ranked Jedi votes for Number 3 ranked Jedi...

Vote : Ibn-Khaldun

I saw him eating a banana.

Now this is what mafia is all about. Watching Andres create the best reasons to vote for someone ever, ever.

DO U KNOW THE MUFFIN MAN!?!?!?!?

And that's what that whole muffin thing was about.

At about this point, massive counter bandwagon on Raskolnikov happens, to tie it up. Actually Raskol goes into the lead for a while. But it ends in a duel.


Raskolnikov: (7) Renata, ACIN, dcmort93, Yaseikhaan, ByzKnight, Ignoramus, pevergreen
pevergreen: (7) Autolycus, Choxorn, Diana Abnoba, Belisarius II, Winston Hughes, Raskolnikov, Sprig


DUEL:

pevergreen is a Jedi Master with no boosting abilities.
Raskolnikov is a Jedi Initiate, but is insanely powerful and innately talented with the lightsaber. He has no less than two ranks of boosted saber talent, pushing him up to the rank of Knight.

Battle meditation- boosts stamina and strength (lightsaber passive +1)
Force Valor- Adds 1 level to lightsaber combat and wins drawn force battles.

If Raskol had become a Padawan and advanced to Knight, he would have been as skilled as a Grandmaster with the blade. This would have happened by night 10, but this was not to be.

pevergreen barely defeats the initiate due to still-superior rank, and also the fact that as an Initiate, Raskol had no saber form and thus pevergreen had an inherent +1 advantage against him. Just as a Padawan with virtually any saber form, Raskol would have tied pevergreen and the duel would have ended in a draw. Also possible; Raskol wins the duel outright with the correct saber form.

Would have made pever poop his pants, I'm sure, to have lost to such a novice. But he wins the day, and Raskol goes down.

At this point, everyone knows that pevergreen is of better skill than a novice, and is thus one of the highest ranked people in the game, making him an early Sith target. Not a good start for the Jedi.... just flat out lynching Raskol would have been superior.

Day Two Commentary: Random wagon!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

You can congratulate me for killing beskar.

As Sasaki has done in the past (like claiming detective in an early mafia game, to keep the real detective safe) Sasaki makes himself a target on purpose, because his original role was basically a worthless Initiate. Potentially powerful, but presently powerless.

A smart tactic, as it predictably fools the Sith, and these are good players. I honestly don't know why ANYONE believes a word Sasaki says, ever. I really hope that I would have scoffed at this claim, I tend to think he's always lying to me for some purpose, or even for no purpose. I think he just likes it, frankly. And frankly, I do this kind of stuff all the time too, so... I understand it.

This is a game of information and misinformation. Townies should really take their cues from Sasaki on this stuff; I certainly have. I outright admit to lying all the time as a townie. It makes blending in as mafia easier too, if you're ever caught lying. The only downside is the "cry wolf" effect, but frankly I don't care until people start treating my claims like the bogusness that they are half of the time.

Renata, Seon, Diamondeye, Tincow, and Psychonaut and Kagemusha IIRC all fell for this nonsense. These are not silly players, these are all players who should be admired and feared, taken in by Sasaki and his lies.

I dare someone to use their win the game ability now. Who are the Sith?

I wanted to see if anyone could guess, and make themselves famous.

No takers? You're no fun.

Vote: autolycus
Pure guesswork.

Autolycus is ranked 26th or so, and is basically an untrained Initiate still. But his vote doesn't prompt a reaction from Autolycus, so it is still a good vote.

Awesome write up, pizza.

So, can someone explain the case on DE, and why is Force Breath such a scummy force power?

Until then, I'll Vote: Andres, he claimed to be the Muffin Man loony, right?" I'd might be a role block, but the way I see it we can't have a crazy person like this running around without putting some scrutiny on him. And why so openly claim it?

Joooray decides to vote for the one guy in the game you can almost be guaranteed isn't Sith, due to my foolish hosting decisions.

Forgot his coffee that morning?

Nothing. Entertaining is serious business, btw.



Well, in the previous game, those with Force Breath proved to be unlynchable.

It's a pretty boring ability compared to my awesome powers.

Andres soft claims to be powerful, but, you just know this isn't serious.

Free info for the Sith? Meh, not sure it is wise.

You're voting for Andres because you think he didn't kill someone last night? That makes no sense at all.

Vote: Joooray

TC has a point. Sadly, Joooray is presently the 4th ranked Jedi. I am not sure lynching him is wise, though due to the promotion system it isn't exactly game losing either.

Sasaki is not to be trusted, he is only to be enjoyed.

I'm not feeling the DE bandwagon.

TC sort of redeems himself here by pointing out how silly Sasaki's claims are. And he uses the force to predict that DE is innocent.

That's only 2 reasons and the second one doesn't count, because you said the first was enough for you.

EDIT: ok, ok, enough of this silly nonsense. I can't expect you guys to blindly follow me.

The case against DiamondEye consists of several elements: thread behaviour, investigation results and gut feelings.

I hereby present you the case against DiamondEye:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Ehm, sorry about that.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Here it is:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Andres' job in this game was to give the host something fun to read. For that, he succeeded.

Slysnake replaces Major Robert Dump.

Raskolnikov replaces TheFlax, as per his request.

Stuck in Pi may be replacing Winston Hughes due to the laptop difficulties, but I have to run it by him first.

First of many replacements. Flax is on a trip, and MRD signed up for the game in the assembly yard but never for when the game started; probably busy, so I give it to Slysnake who got omgwthpwned right away.

Vote: Sasaki

You've boasted to killing Beskar with the expectation for us to just believe you, and you've already tried to start two bandwagons on the same day.

I do believe, however, that Double A is acting scummy, and I'm tilting towards voting him instead.

Our top-ranked Jedi votes for the deceptive Sasaki. Neither Sasaki nor Double A are worth voting for, but at least no Masters, Knights, or Padawans die if they get lynched.

So anyway, for basically no reason Double A gets lynched.

Double A - (God Emperor, classical_hero, Frozen in Ice, Cute Wolf, Sasaki Kojiro, Tincow, Renata, Ibn-Khaldun, Diamondeye, robbiecon, Yaseikhaan)


Sadly, Double A was one of the 7 super-light-side starting Jedi. These were the ones who could make mistakes with vigilante kills and there would have to be a lot of them to cause a fall to the dark side.

These are not susceptible to being turned into Sith except through Mind Control, a power no one had yet.

This one was a mistake, as are most of the early game lynches.

I do not understand what these large bandwagons were all about. It makes it very difficult to reverse them, and once they get started, unless you picked a Sith, the Sith are in virtually zero danger.

You never want to give the Sith breathing room. Pressure is applied when they have to watch the game thread like a hawk, when there are only between 1 and 5 votes for someone. Once the wagon runs away, the Sith can take a nap. They barely need to comment, and they don't have to worry about their partners or themselves.

If the suspected gives a defense worth changing your mind, how do you suddenly reverse a huge wagon in the last couple hours of the round? You can't. You shoot yourself in the foot with large wagons.

Words of Wisdom: NO HUGE WAGONS.

When you make your choice, make sure the Sith cannot affect the tally, and put 3-4 additional votes on the lynchee, to make it impossible for the mafia to escape their fate. But otherwise, let the vote tally be close, in my opinion.

Let's say there are 5 votes on a Sith, and they are the lead candidate. Well that makes it awfully tempting for them to try to save their partner, as it isn't a foregone conclusion that their partner is dead. Perhaps they are successful in reversing that wagon, but later on, it is still determined that their partner was guilty.

Don't they look guilty now, too?

You close off a lot of tactical options when you create massive wagons.

Massive wagon = fail.

That's the bottom line. You can quote me on that.

Day Three Commentary: Random counter-wagon!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

well, im going to absically be gone for the next two days so im going to put down a vote now, even though i dont really have any leads. I'm going to put down vote:diana abnoba because she is usually pretty active but seems to have been very quiet this game.

Diana being quiet always has more to do with lack of time than her alignment. I know, because I've seen her be active as mafia, and quiet as town, and vice-versa. It always has to do with free time or lack thereof.

No. But you have.

Vote: Chaotix

Psychonaut votes for the Neutral Jedi, the one who killed his Apprentice.

This causes much lulz for the game host.

Vote: Sigurd Can you clarify what was your post concerning Sasaki about?

The Dark One votes for Sigurd, ranked 42 initiate. Sigurd doesn't react negatively, so Kagemusha escapes for another day.

Sometimes OMGUS is a good idea.

May I introduce you to the cases against God Emperor and ByzantineKnight?



[snip]

BK finally voted Cute Wolf, though he was under huge pressure. It was prolly judicious choice not to BW again.


-------------------------------------------------------

tl; dr: huge FOS on God Emperor and ByzantineKnight.

-------------------------------------------------------

Meanwhile, vote: pevergreen

Raskolnikov tries hard, and misses hard.

None of these people are guilty, and pevergreen is the worst lynch of them all.


By now, there's a massive Sasaki wagon. No idea why.

Sasaki isn't a sith...

Vote: Joooray

He's acting too Joorayish.

Two people know Sasaki is innocent by now. So, Rebel Jeb (perhaps unwisely) sticks his neck out for the initiate Sasaki.

So far:

Current Leader:

Sasaki (9) - pevergreen, Sigurd, Ignoramus, Ironside, Kagemusha, slysnake, Death is yonder, Diana Abnoba, Belisarius II

Second Place:

Yaropolk (5) - Csargo, Sasaki, Beefy187, ByzantineKnight, Ibn-Khaldun

You guys are making a mistake here...

Unvote: Vote: Yarolpolk

Rebel Jeb REALLY sticks his neck out for Sasaki.


Mass counter wagon on Yaropolk for no other real reason than: your massive wagon on Sasaki left no other choice.

See? MASSIVE WAGONS HANDICAP THE TOWN! STOP DOING IT!!!



First Place:

Yaropolk (13) - Csargo, Sasaki, Beefy187, ByzantineKnight, Ibn-Khaldun, Romanic, Rebel Jeb, Frozen in Ice, Diamondeye, Chaotix, Choxorn, Cecil XIX, Yaseikhaan

Second Place:

Sasaki (8) Sigurd, Ignoramus, Ironside, Kagemusha, slysnake, Death is yonder, Diana Abnoba, Belisarius II



Yaropolk was a basic initiate, light side. One less non-recruitable down... not a great choice. You didn't leave yourselves much of a choice. There was a vote on Kagemusha... you don't always have to go for the number two choice when counter wagoning.

No one wanted to wagon the basically-proven-innocent Andres' suspect? Poor Andres. So brilliant. So ignored.

Day Four: So close, and yet, so far....

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

pretendVOTE:Ignoramus

Sasaki wages his jihad against Ignoramus even while dead. Poor guy. Ah don't worry, he comes back, due to my "everyone should get a chance to have fun, sniff sniff" hosting philosophy.

No one tried to kill pever. Why not?

Ignoramus is active which is suspicious.

I'm going with Vote:Sigurd though. Mostly on feeling, his vote yesterday doesn't sit well with me.

I hope, after this game, the "they're suspicious for being more active" theory has been squashed. It's better than nothing I suppose, because Iggy was something good, but he wasn't a Sith and he wasn't a Dark Jedi, and he frankly kicked butt this game. And he probably would kick butt in other games if his sudden additional contributions didn't get him killed right away. :P

I remember one game Csargo was unusually and refreshingly talkative. I made him my bestest friend and we won and we were both townies.

VOTE: CHOXORN

DEPRESSURIZING VOTE.

No one besides me found this hilarious? I dunno it tickled my funny bone.



Ok at this point votes go random, until a sudden soup wagon appears out of nowhere.

Vote: Andres Something is certainly off with you. First you vote Nightbringer then you dont unvote and jump the Soup bandwagon.In the same post you Fos Yaseikhaan who is already dead. Like you wouldnt know better. You claimed that you were some sort of non harmfull character, but we havent witnessed anything after the funny attack of the first night.

Kagemusha sneaks by again with another post that catches no flak from anyone.

FoS: All those going after Andres.

Andres is a cunning player, but he's not the type to intentionally draw votes onto himself as mafia... at least not unless he's protecting someone else. Mafo-Andres gets silly and provocative once he's a dead mafioso, not when he's a living mafioso. His current behavior is not consistent with him being scum. Those going after him seem be leaping at the opportunity to grasp at 'easy' suspicion. It's voting without any real thought. Of all those participating, there is one person who should seriously know better...

Unvote; Vote: Kage

No flak from anyone until.... dun dun dunn dunnnnn... the metal cow rears his head to call bull on the unusual things that wouldn't normally be found suspicious.

And this is why real, thoughtful analysis wins games. It's based in logic.

Why is it bull spit? Because Kagemusha is acting like he doesn't know better, but he knows better. That indicates lies, which indicates scum.

Tincow's alarm goes off, he wins the thread.

You forgot Kagemusha.

Oh, and Andres mentions him too. Didn't articulate why as much as Tincow did.

TC is correct in his reasoning. Everyone should be voting for Kage. Now.

What?

die, Kage, die!

What???

*sigh* Okay.

unvote, vote: Kagemusha

.......WHAT!?!?!?!?


Good gravy, is the town going to figure this out on round FOUR?? Oh poop, Kage is screwed.

He refers to the Star Wars game over at twcenter.net, there I had the cover role of C3PO and he was R2D2, but I was actually Grand Moff Tarkin, so I can understand him being a bit upset about that. However, I still think that's a very easy vote and in combination with the other things you mentioned, I fell he is a good choice at some point as well.

Now Kage seems to be the person of choice Vote: Kage.

Oh man, everyone seems to have found his scum. He's bloodied! he's on the ropes! He's down for the count!!!

So i should be lynched because to me Andres is acting suspicious? Unvote and Vote: Jooray, bit anxious to get into the bandwagon?

A swing and a miss! This only makes the hornet's nest angrier!

TOWNIES!!! TOWNIES!!! TOWNIES!!!! *chanting*

That's scummy and you know it.

Not only is it scummy, Andres knows it is scummy, and now Kage knows that Andres knows that it is scummy, and Andres knows that Kage knows that it is scummy, and Kage knows that Andres knows that Kage knows that it is scummy.

It's.... quite scummy, frankly.

Which is why I'm voting for;

Vote:Andres

A very strange vote.

Nearest I can figure, he's establishing he's not Sith because Sith wouldn't do anything so strange on purpose to attract attention to themselves. The "ACIN gambit", to coin a term.

Everything is going well until:

I find myself highly agreeable with Renata's argument against Vote: dcmort. At the same time I find it odd that Renata was so willing to drop her reasoning, especially considering it makes a lot of sense. For that I am suspicious of Renata. No fingers involved however; I don't find them very suspicious.

Renata isn't even in full agreement with her argument on dcmort, or she'd be voting for him.

Hrmm....

Are we dropping the Sigurd case so soon?

dcmort's post, as soon as I saw it (and I read the thread from the beginning of the day phase) struck me as very scummy. The case on Kagemusha seems kind of thin, but the subtleties of it may just be escaping me. While I wouldn't go so far as to vote for Andres, I do agree that we need to keep an eye on him and can't just give him a free pass because he's acting silly. I find one of the best ways to deflect serious attention is by acting silly.

So..

Unvote, Vote: dcmort

You may be able to change my mind.

Chaotix is giving reasons. No one is really sure about dcmort, not even people voting for him. Meanwhile, Kagemusha reeks of scum to half a dozen people.

I agree, the case against Sigurd was flawed from the start, so I vote: dcmort

What?

Ah ****, I forgot to unvote, Vote dcmort.

Why?

Closer analysis tells me that soup was replaced. Well I guess it's

Unvote; Vote: dcmort then

Because?


So it looks like Kage escapes. And then:

Tincow is a sith. I scanned him last night, and found him to be so.

Vote: TinCow

I recommend that Andres, whom he seemed to defend, is one also. Somebody protect me tonight, and I'll scan him to check. If not, I'll be dead, and I'd recommend lynching him anyways.

Umm...yeah. Carry on sirs.

Rebel Jeb's reading of the intentionally ambiguous Investigation IV- Force Persuasion results tells him that Tincow is Dark Side and recruitable.

This means he's jedi, and not recruited yet. However, a recruitable is okay to lynch if you have no one better. That limits the Sith team's potential recruits in the endgame.

But better than a potential recruit was the big Kahuna, Kagemusha himself. Like a thousand billion times better.

And this is why relying on investigation results is bad for the town. It stops all debate, discussion, and rational thought. And, it lets every single bad guy in the game know EXACTLY what to do in order to avoid being lynched, which is: follow the town in whatever they do, en masse.

It relieves all pressure that would otherwise have been applied to Kagemusha, or others.

So, peoples, do you agree with my premise that investigators aren't all they're cracked up to be? Even when they're correct, they still kinda suck. And Tincow was having a blasty blast with this game, and almost took down the main Sith guy, and now he's dead.

I hate investigators. There are just.... so many reasons why. They actually weakened the town's game here, in demonstrable fashion. Even when they're right, they're still so cheap.



1 massive wagon on TinCow later... (all real discussion stops at this point)

Unvote, Vote: TinCow

That one's a no-brainer. If he's not Sith, we can just take care of Jeb tomorrow.

It truly is a no-brainer. Investigation results turn a once-thriving discussion and real pressure on the top Sith into an automatic dogpile on an initiate with no real powers.

Every Sith in the game has zero pressure on them now.

Is this a fair assessment? Would I have done any different? I probably would be right there in that wagon.

And yet, from a host's perspective, you can see more clearly, how crippling any investigation result is to a game of mafia, which is about psychology and bluffing and tactics and limited information. It becomes no longer about psychology and all about pressing the win button. Nothing to analyze, nothing to learn.

It contributes to the "dumbening" of the town for the duration of the round. What was once debate is now a lynch mob with no dissenting opinions. There is nothing to debate.

All Tincow can do is laugh it off. He's powerless to stop it, so he tosses in the towel and watches the fireworks.

I hate investigators. There, I said it again. I mean it, so much.

Tincow: (26) Rebel Jeb, Seon, Psychonaut, robbiecon, Andres, Renata, Csargo, Double A, YLC, ByzKnight, landlubber, Sprig, Nightbringer, Stuck in Pi, Beefy187, Joooray, Autolycus, Raskolnikov, Ibn-Khaldun, Ironside, Belisarius II, choxorn, Frozen in Ice, pevergreen, Chaotix, Ignoramus

So Tincow is lynched, 26 votes to three.

Who did Tincow end up voting for? His original case on Kagemusha. He left his vote right where it should have been. His dead fingers ended up pointing at Kagemusha, and when he was dead and he was proven innocent, the rage went on Rebel Jeb, who was simply doing his job as an investigator, which was reporting his findings.

The dead finger points at Kagemusha. The voice of reason is silenced, crushed under the weight of an investigator-induced failwagon. The dead finger of suspicion is ignored, innocent though it was.

Day Five: WHERE MY TOWNIES AT???

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Post 826: A thoughtful analysis by Tincow, correctly pointing out that Jeb's move was non-Sith. Sith don't do that. Which is why I will do that someday, and I won't be able to get away with it because I just said I would try it, but I'm gambling you'll forget. Forget! For...get!

Vote : Ignoramus

What TinCow said + your plea to ATPG not to abandon his game.

Sorry, friend, but you have a tendency to get WoG'ed in these games. In your case, being active means there's something off.

Also, it has happened before that a role with investigative powers misinterpreted his investigation results, so I'd like to hear more from Rebel Jeb before voting him. After all, it wouldn't make sense for a Sith to expose himself so early in the game by claiming a pro-town role.

I'm more thinking along the lines of innocent+wrong interpretation of a dubious investigation result.

Ignoramus becomes the prime suspect again, and stays that way for a long time.

Keep your chin up, Iggy. It will get better.

NO, NO NONONONONONONONONO don't reveal if someone can be recruited or not.

Wisdom!

For this purpose, Force Ghosts do count as living players. The dead rules don't apply to them.

Updated rule list just to make sure it's made plain there as well.

With this rule, I made the call that Force Ghosts could be used to create pro-town networks.

Why?

Because if they are treated as dead people who can't reveal stuff, or can't confirm things other people said, then what reasons can they give for voting?

If they can't say what they did while they were dead, but they just investigated someone... they would vote for them and say "look at my vote, follow it" and people would.

So, I have to treat them as living people who can PM and everything. And thus, I unintentionally created a pro-town network.

I groaned at this decision. I didn't like it. I didn't want it. But, it was the only way Force Ghost made any sense. Plus, it was the same as the previous game, Force Ghost didn't increase or decrease in power.

I had to gamble that my skills as a game host, the balancing of the game, plus the ambiguousness I added to the game, was enough to overcome a town win by brute force and informational advantages.

I still don't know, as of this writing, if I broke the game or not. The game is now half over and the Sith are doing okay. When the Master or the Grandmaster Sith dies, it also removes pevergreen from the game, which could end the influence of the pro-town network.

Is it balanced? 50 spinning plates in the air is hard to balance. This was worse.

So I believe that our 'ghost' should become an 'archive' of all informations that should not be revealed publicly

Yes, he should. Sadly, there is basically no downside to this move, except that the town might blindly follow pevergreen and pevergreen could be wrong. But it does decrease his odds of being wrong.



Oh, and right around here, the Ignoramus wagon gets ridiculous. The discussion dies... AGAIN....

"14 Ignoramus: Andres, Rebel Jeb, DE, Choxorn, Seon, Sigurd, Ironside, Sprig, Nightbringer, Khazaar, Zack, Sasaki, Belisarius II, God Emperor

6 YLC: Renata, Joooray, DIY, Jarema, BK, Csargo

1 Seon: Psychonaut"

Then people get the idea to make YLC and Iggy duel.

YLC correctly predicts he's mince meat in such a duel, and even if he won, he'd not be any less a suspect, and that he'd never be able to kill a Sith, so a duel does him absolutely zero good.

That said, I wanted to write moar duels. Me sad.


So, he makes dead certain there will be no tie at all. Of course, we still had 24 hours to wait before the round ended anyway...

So, we all had a laugh over how silly we were.

LOL,
whatever ends up happening, you have style YLC, I like that.

YLC, defiant as ever, broke the tie against Iggy blatantly, to say fleep you to the town for giving him such an opportunity. Silly gooses.

Haven't we gone over this before. A TIE ONLY BENEFITS THE SITH. How does a tie benefit us in this situation? Both here are reasonable lynches, both are good choices, pick one ore the other.

FoS: God Emperor, Frozen In Ice and Seon .

Lecturing townies about what's good for the town?

Psycho, sloppy man. If I were in the game I would have voted you for this post, I'm serious. Not because I know the answer, but because I reflexively vote this kind of behavior.

I actually thought "man that's scummy" and looked up and saw Psychonaut's name. That's the sequence of events here. That's when I laughed and told Psychonaut I would have totally voted him if I were playing. I shouldn't have done that either, so I stopped making such comments. Me and my big mouth.

So yeah, ummmm

The day ends in slightly over 24 hours from now, lest we forget this day started 12 hours ago.

Awesome.

look if you want me dead you'll need to vig me because I have force breath. Chances are I'll die the next night unless the sith just suck hardcore

THIS IS A TOWNIE THING TO SAY.

This is what all townies should say. But then, some might become Sith, so maybe they want to shush about it. Either is good. One is townie.

Ig seems ok.

Others have revealed to me, I'd suggest if you have any active force powers, you do the same. I'm not cross-revealing nor am I revealing info to the town.

Force Ghost shows his worth. Leaving Iggy around was a good move.

Djeez, how could we possibly miss that?

Unvote; Vote : Sigurd

One of my favorite posts in the game, by one of my favorite posters.

Andres: Quality over quantity.

Also, LOL at the "I didn't know YLC was bald" comment.



So, what's the situation? YLC and Ignoramus are neck and neck for the lynch, and Kage is safe. Not even in play. What happens?

No im just saying that she does not like me as a person, nothing else. My opinion is that we have to gather our forces, which pever is doing a good job already by cross checking people.

"pever is doing a good job already"

Ouch.

How do you know that pever is doing a good job? As far as I can tell, the only thing he has done is make a personal judgment call on whether Ignoramus' role claim is legit or not. That seems like a pretty low evidentiary bar in a game in which all the mafioso have cover roles, and forwarding of the actual role PMs is prohibited. This is not to belittle pever's analytical skills, but rather to question why you place so much faith in them.

Kage, man.... your scum, it is showing!

fake faith, kage is on the lynch list too.

You guys aren't sure on YLC, and you don't want Iggy dead... LYNCH KAGE!!!

Come on now! Lynches aren't set in stone!!!

Go, go go go go!!!!

You're being oddly defensive. I never claimed to know anything about your role, nor did I ask for any information from you. What prompted those comments? I have also never protested giving information to pever, nor did I question pever's opinion of Ignoramus after he made it. That post is the only time I have even commented on the pever-nexus situation, and that post was intended to question why you appeared to be happy to blindly follow pever's lead without any information. Why are you exaggerating?

Hit him! Hit him! He's dropped his guard, land a haymaker!

It was not my intention to say I had a superior understanding of the situation. My interpretation of your post was that you were placing more faith in pever's judgment call on Ignoramus than seemed warranted based on the information we have been given. That seemed unusual to me, so I questioned you about it. I apologize if you felt like I was lecturing you, that was certainly not what I was trying to do.

Kage hits back, and Tincow gets woozy. He's falling for the wounded mafia routine!

How can you not dislike a guy who smokes Marlboro LIGHT?

Anyway, Kage, you have been behaving odd in a previous round and this getting personal/upset thing is something you sometimes do when you're scum. If you're innocent, then I suggest you stop digging your own grave.

Andres doesn't buy it. Lands a body blow.

But he's giving Kagemusha advice on how to play. Andres, no man. Come on my friend, if you're explaining why he needs to change his behavior to stop appearing scummy, then he's scummy! Nail him, don't help him!

He knows how to play! But you've accidentally nailed him being scummy! HIT HIM! HIT HIM!!! BUST HIM UP!!!

/runs

No!!! Now Andres is falling for it!

Kage swings back and Andres runs away. I am dumbfounded.


So the round ends with zero votes on Kage, after several people found him scummy again.

Where is my townies at? Where dids you go???

First Place

YLC: (21) Renata, Joooray, DIY, Jarema, ByzantineKnight, God Emperor, Ignoramus, Double A, Frozen, Blackadder, Beefy, dcmort93, Psychonaut, Chaotix, Cecil XIX, Greyblades, pevergreen, Andres, Csargo, Diamondeye, Diana Abnoba

Second Place

Ignoramus: (12) Seon, Rebel Jeb, choxorn, Sigurd, Ironside, Sprig, Khazaar, Sasaki Kojiro, Belisarius II, Zack, slysnake, Ibn-Khaldun


Bye, YLC. We hardly knew ye.

Day Six: And this is why I don't listen to mafia.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Reanimated?? hmm. Beskar tell us about this.

Vote:Kagemusha

Seems like we should avoid an irreversible cascade of votes on beskar just now.

Sasaki, you're so wise. I just can't quit you.

So tell us who that is Beskar, and we would be glad to lynch him for you.

This is Diana:

30 minutes of reading the org.

3 minutes to post a comment.

Logs off.

Town or mafia, that's Diana. But it looks scummy to people when she does a flyby. They think she's not contributing. But this is what she contributes when there's a lot of people left alive. She could make a case on someone, but she thinks it will get ignored.

That's Diana. Town or mafia. There's nothing unusual about it.

Rebel Jeb told us he scanned Tincow as Sith, he was not. Now I understand it s quite likely that he could be a false scanner.

But I want him to talk:

Vote: Rebel Jeb

This is a "I haven't read every post" post. It usually means townie, I'm afraid.

Vote: Beskar

He's a Sith.

We're going to let a Sith live?

Last time I checked, we had to kill ALL of them. It doesn't matter if they're not all allied with each other.

This means "I know too much, because the solution is obvious".

Well basic townies don't think it is obvious. Chaotix/neutral knows a bit more about the game than most. The obvious move is to get rid of any Sith murderers ASAP.

Look at all these other townies rejecting that solution as "too obvious".

What's his thought process and why is it different? Why is he telling the town what the obvious solutions are?

Where's the facepalm smilie?

You don't tell people that you have Force Breath, that makes it useless and annoying.

Telling townies what to do and what not to do = scummy.

Neutrals are kind of scummy.

Purple saber, actually. Check again.

That means it was a Jedi vigilante, not a Sith. Unless you Sith happen to use purple lightsabers nowadays?

NOTICE HOW FAST HE SAID THIS.

His giant purple saber is practically falling out of his pants, throbbing at us, ready to fill us with purple glowing goodness. He can barely contain himself. He wants to shout from the rooftops how he is the purple saber guy, but that's his subconscious mind.

His conscious mind is saying "I'm not the purple saber guy".

And that's why there's a strange behavioral tic here. He's all over the writeup, and he KNOWS it was a purple vigilante, not a red Sith.

Why?

Because it's called purple information syndrome. Nobody's perfect. :D

FOS: Chaotix

This is rhetoric and not reasoning.

What's that, Sasaki Doo? You smell something, boy? Could it be..... scummy?

Have a Sasaki snack.

That said, neutral vigilante trying to go Sith ends up killing more Sith than anyone else so far. Makes me LOL to no end.

I was talking with ATPG yesterday, I knew he wasnt joking about that force power.

I like to put crucial information in the hardest to reach place, which is always right in front of people.

It's not like he could really do anything with that info 1/2 round before it was used. Nothing could stop it.

I apologize for wanting to kill confirmed Sith instead of someone who is only suspicious.

Ah, sarcasm. A townie's best friend.

It's tough to be sarcastic and lie at the same time. It feels very dirty.

Try it, because sarcasm is based on what YOU find funny or ironic. If you don't believe your lie is the truth, then you don't think sarcasm based on that lie is funny, because it's not funny to YOU, because you know what the real truth is.

Humor is an important weapon in mafia games. If the joke is off, that indicates there's something wrong with your sense of humor. Which means you're uptight, anxious, stressed, or lying.

Which means you're scum.

Here, the sarcasm works. It fits a relaxed but irritated psychological state. The sarcasm is quick, biting, and honest. That's townie. That's something you can take to the bank.

Try telling jokes about your lies, in a way that you find directly funny, not funny in a meta-sense. It's hard to tell a joke you find funny while lying, because it doesn't "ring true".

Jokes are serious business.

I think it's kind of sad that people aren't really thinking about the Sith recruitment thing anymore - do you all just put such an important mechanic out of your minds and charge heads first into oblivion? If the Sith can only recruit when one of them dies, then KILLING SITH IS POINTLESS unless you kill them simultaneously. The known Sith, in this case Beskar, dies - his Sith master recruits a townie, whom we now do not know is a Sith.

Do you not see how this does not benefit us? You all like constantly whittling yourself down uselessly? You will make no progress, ever, and the Sith will win.

Have fun town :D!

It's true, frankly.

The exchange between YLC and Chaotix is awesome, worth a re-read.

Beskar: (7) Jarema, Beefy187, Ignoramus, Zack, Frozen in ice, Autolycus, johnhughthom

Ignoramus: (6) Sprig, robbiecon, choxorn, Seon, Sasaki Kojiro, Chaotix

So, we have powerful innocent Jedi at 6, and known Sith at 7.

Well, okay, I agree. Lynch the Sith.

Soft claim. You're already under extreme suspicion. Unnecessary and makes you look scummier. Say the whole deal, or say nothing at all.

When a mafioso is under no suspicion, they can lob townie-sounding things at will all day long. This is great because it provides reasons for a townie to reveal information to the sith, or die as a consequence of not doing so, and maybe they will die anyway.

And none of this "appears" scummy. But it is, because it blends in with classical standoffish townie scum-finding methods.

These are the kinds of behaviors mafia use when they're not under suspicion to STAY that way. It doesn't always indicate scum, but question people like this, put pressure on them. Don't say why. See how they react.

Make them feel a little heat. Just to make them nervous. Maybe they'll get panicky.

I'll second that FOS; that post of classical's was totally meaningless.

Sometimes townies who are in an unfamiliar forum and aren't big talkers and don't usually play such big games post whatever is on their mind. And, it's so off from the brainwaves of everyone else, it falsely triggers suspicion.

Maybe we have evolved to distrust outsiders, and this picks up in times of stress.

Maybe that's why when things go bad, minorities are blamed. /too much social commentary.

Vote: Sigurd

I came across some new information.

At this point, Sigurd is the best lynch for today.

And this is why you shouldn't listen to Mafia.

And this is why you shouldn't listen to Mafia.

And this is why you shouldn't listen to Mafia.

Well, it is pretty obvious I am the better choice to stay alive, I already said, it wasn't my Sith lord who revived me, and said about another faction pre-this incident. Whoever revived me, did it to distract the town away from themselves.

Even if you don't believe me that I want to take revenge on whoever first nighted me, there are other things to consider:

The Rule of Two - There is currently only me and my Master. So if you don't believe what I am saying about another faction, you deprive my Master of recruiting some one else and you get to block a known sith, severely limiting my faction. (or don't block me, and allow me to hunt down the Sith who killed me in the first place)

It wasn't my Master who revived me - If it wasn't him, who else would revive a Sith? I place my bets that it wasn't a Jedi who revived me, so I leave that up to you to find out, As for the timing of the incident, my money is on Ignoramus.

This was valid though. He was trying to figure out who revived him.

It was Kagemusha, when Kage was feeling the pressure.

It worked, too.

He could have kept doing it. But Kage had no more pressure on him.

Beskar wasn't revived again. Why not?

@ Nightbringer and Joooray and frankly everyone else

Yes I know, I haven't been very active in this game so far, so sorry to all and esp. Pizza. He puts so much into his games, and that isn't fair to him, and to you all for that matter. RL is just kicking my butt lately, with my new job, working day shift and night shift, OT...don't know if I'm coming or going some of the time. It should even out in about a week or so, and I will hopefully be able to keep up with this game, cause I'm sorta lost, and behind right now.

Well, I need to vote now, before I miss another vote phase, if I can't get back on here before the phase is over, so; Vote: Ignoramus for now, unless it turns out we don't have any roleblockers to block Beskar.

Look at the delayed reaction.

See how much time it took for her to respond to criticism of her play style?

You could throw a wagon on her and she wouldn't know about it until it is too late, and her defense would also sound wrong to you, and she will die.

That's Diana. You gotta get to know her. This is who she is.

She's not at the computer except 1/50th of the day, if that much. 1/100th of every two days, maybe. That's why there's such a delay in reaction times. She's not lurking, she's NEVER THERE!

:D Loves you babe.

No rulebreak has occurred.

Why would the Sith tell pevergreen about his Master unless it was cow chips?

Of course it's not a rulebreak. It's what mafia do to mess with you. Totes legal, and lulz-worthy.

Sigurd did himself no favors by playing into it. He fell on his sword for a joke.

Argh. Something is completely off here. Where's someone very analytical like Renata or YLC when you need them?!

unvote; vote: Ignoramus

This is what Mafia post when they are having a blasty blast.

Psychonaut is loving this meaningless chaos.

Why was Ignoramus Sith again?

This is like a war that's been going on for 100 years, until finally someone says.... Hey, why are we fighting?

Why is Ignoramus a Sith? Because someone found him suspicious once, and 20 people voted for him. Now he's officially a Sith, that's why. Appeal to popularity.

Well, I already called it. But I am glad you see reason.

If anyone knows anything about me, I use the truth to my advantage. I rarely outright lie.

Dead mafia like to talk to living mafia (Ironside). Living mafia like to talk to living mafia. But only 1 or 2 posts.

unvote, vote:beskar

hmm, ignoramus is feeling like a bit too easy of a target atm.

Yep. That's why people are voting for him, and for almost no other reason.

Ignoramus: (13) Sprig, robbiecon, choxorn, CBlackadder, Khazaar, Ibn-Khaldun, Diana Abnoba, Beskar, Sigurd, Psychonaut, Ironside, Csargo, God Emperor

Sigurd: (10) pevergreen, Beefy187, DIY, Yaropolk, Autolycus, classical_hero, Diamondeye, Jarema, Seon, ACIN,

Beskar: (9) Jarema, Ignoramus, Zack, Frozen in ice, johnhughthom, Chaotix, Warman, Joooray, Sasaki Kojiro,

Notice how the Sith is currently ranked number three in votes, and the number 1 and 2 votes are both townies?

And he's a known Sith, too.

That's how awesome the case on Ignoramus was.

LOL

unvote, vote:ignoramus

It's an irresistible force! You cannot stop being attracted to it! You just said he was too easy a target, and like a moth to a flame, you're right back in it!

Alright, i didn't get a satisfactory response from Sigurd.

Sigurd is a sith lord.

I don't know if he has force breath, he wouldn't tell me.

This one is not pever's fault. Sigurd could have tried to be serious. But it is a game after all.

Did he?

Time up.

My original post was a commentary about how unsporting it was, but I thought better of it, because it is a game and I've tossed my life away as townie god knows enough times. Anything is a valid strategy in this game, except getting yourself killed as SK or neutral. Anything that could lead to your team winning is technically correct.

Sigurd dies as townie, so he can't be converted and can win with the Jedi if they win.

So who am I to say it is unsporting or wrong?

XD

[Ironside]

I don't suppose Chaotix has chosen to win with the Jedi? :)

Nope, he chickened out to share any victory when he switched votes.

And we completely underestimated the power gain by the grandmaster. Explains how Chaotix changed from a low threat to a high threat so fast.


I take it that's a rough estimate ATPG?

Me having the same powergain as Renata, Kage with about 65 powers isn't on top?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Wall of the Commentary


Episode III: Revenge of the Puns

MOAR LIGHTSABERZ EDITION

Day Seven: What a waste of time.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Rebel Jeb, Andres, Sprig, and Beskar die. So many awesome players. I am really sad to see Rebel Jeb go this time, because he was such an awesome character and he was being useful and he was learning.

Andres because he's hilarious and he has bloodhound-like mafia senses.

Sprig because he's an excellent player, especially in the endgame. But he gets quiet when he dies, he's not used to being dead detective I guess.

Beskar because he was getting a chance to finally play the game. He died from Chaotix again!!

And now, Belisarius II becomes the Grandmaster of the Order. Let's see how he does.

Ok... here it comes... YOU OBVIOUSLY LYNCHED THE WRONG GUY last round.

LOL

You deserved it for messing with pever after beskar already messed with him. Poor guy was getting a lie told to him by a mafia, confirmed to him by a townie.

Totally lols-worthy but still, can't blame pever (for all of it).

He needs to stop listening to Sith.

And the townies too? *wink*

Keep it pg-13 please

Yes, more G-rated jokes for adults. I love it.

Sneak jokes past the censors, pizza loves it and can sense innuendo from half a foot away.

I didn't even get a fight...?

:(

I know, buddy. When none of your defenses function and the move kills you instantly, there's not a whole lot I can add to the description besides gore.

That's blood, guts, and gore, not Al Gore, obviously.

Although....

No, that couldn't work.

Guys, please look at other players as well as me. At the moment your playing into the Sith's hands, because they can just jump on(or stay off) my bandwagon and be none the more suspicious for it. The Sith must have gotten spooked by Rebel Jeb's investigative powers, and only kept him alive long enough to be used as lynch-bait.

He's been remarkably patient about all this so far.

This game will go down in history as the longest and most popular suspicion of a townie in a large game. It was even acted on with the lynch AND a duel, iirc. My my.



And now, I am scrolling down, and this is all I see, as far as the eye can see:


Vote: dcmort


Vote: dcmort


Vote: dcmort


Vote: dcmort


Okay, now we have MASSIVE WAGON ON dcmort93.

MASSIVE WAGON leads to what? No options.



I'm scrolling down to find stuff to comment on, but all I see is post after post of "vote: dcmort93."

Ok I'm still scrolling.


Vote: dcmort


Vote: dcmort


Vote: dcmort


Vote: dcmort


Vote: dcmort








Scrolling......


Vote: dcmort


Vote: dcmort


Vote: dcmort


Vote: dcmort




Yeah. So there was a lot of lively and informative discussion worth commenting on here, obviously.


Ok I reached the end of the page at 80 posts per page. How do you like me now? No interesting discussion, NO interesting commentary.


Open up the next page and....

Vote: dcmort

GAH!

Eehh, ATPG please don't kill me. Anyway, all jedi knows about this one, the dark jedi knows about themself and the sith probably got cover roles and if nothing else, would know about this if they can recruit (and the game hints heavily about that they can).

True. It just feels odd about him speciffically chosing a purple saber (since sith default seems to be red) at the first night. He probably have a decent power level and night attacks is a bit of rock, scissor, paper. Jedi knight Rebel Jeb got unlucky for example.
The options are "dark jedi" or a sith using purple saber on night one. A dark jedi might not need to kill as much as the sith and is laying low atm. Or is only using force power kills. Or if a sith, he could simply use other weapons as you said.

First writeup says yellow...

Ironside knows way too much about this game to be posting so rarely.

Scum flag. Any reaction from the town?



Vote: dcmort


Vote: dcmort



Vote: dcmort



Vote: dcmort

Hmmm..... this vote is too close to call. Better do a hand recount. Could someone please count up all the votes again and make sure I've got this right?


Tally:


First Place:

dcmort93: (32) Diamondeye, Nightbringer, Autolycus, Chaotix, Zack, pevergreen, ByzantineKnight, Seon, Yaropolk, Captain Blackadder, Nictel, Choxorn, Sasaki Kojiro, Frozen in Ice, Psychonaut, God Emperor, slysnake, Jarema, Beefy187, Death is Yonder, Ignoramus, Kagemusha, Renata, classical_hero, Belisarius II, Joooray, Ironside, Johnhughthom, Ibn-Khaldun, AntiKingWarmanCake88, robbiecon, Diana Abnoba

A Close Second:

Ignoramus: (1) dcmort93

Bored game host is unimpressed by your failwagon.



The commentary for today sucks for a reason, and it ain't me.

unvote, vote:Ignoramus

LET'S MAKE IT A TIE

Nice.





First Place:

dcmort93: (32) Diamondeye, Nightbringer, Autolycus, Chaotix, Zack, pevergreen, ByzantineKnight, Seon, Yaropolk, Captain Blackadder, Nictel, Choxorn, Frozen in Ice, Psychonaut, God Emperor, slysnake, Jarema, Beefy187, Death is Yonder, Ignoramus, Kagemusha, Renata, classical_hero, Belisarius II, Joooray, Ironside, Johnhughthom, Ibn-Khaldun, AntiKingWarmanCake88, robbiecon, Diana Abnoba, Cecil XIX

A Close Second:

Ignoramus: (2) dcmort93, Sasaki Kojiro



Gee, was he lynched?

You totally deserved to watch him not die due to force breath, too. This was just as deserved as the Sigurd lynch, resulting in townie death.

Totally self-inflicted wounds. I love you guys, but the thinking caps were not on tightly here.

Day Eight: We all love Ignoramus

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

dcmort is dead, Jedi Knight. Everyone now has a big fat L on their foreheads from yesterday, but the lesson is learned, isn't it? Massive wagon = failwagon.

Failwagons can kill Sith, but so far, it's been good at stifling discussion and ruining the Jedi in every possible way.

1/3 of the Jedi are gone now. Time to get serious!

Jesus h christ.

We are going to be lynching people for in thread stuff instead of nonsense for the rest of game ok?

vote:Zack

Sasaki leads the round once again with an intelligent observation. This isn't random, he usually has something intelligent to say that's very much worth listening to.

He sounded confident? HE SOUNDED CONFIDENT?!?!?!?! Your friends "Confidence" got who knows how many innocents killed. As I had been saying pever's scanner is a false scanner, a role not too uncommon for ATPG's games, and he can apparently vig kill if i read pever's last post right. That kind of power needs to go. Now. before more innocents get killed

And so, another victim of the Force Persuasion misreading phenomenon figures that the person feeding pever false info is Sith.

Well, that was wrong last time.

Taking bets on if it is wrong a second time, and for the same reason.

Remember, if you see bad, fail, wrong wrong wrong behavior, that's an uninformed townie. Playing badly is the most townie thing you can do. It almost proves you're not mafia.

UNVOTE, VOTE:CHAOTIX

jesus the other townies are driving me crazy.

I like how Sasaki's reaction to strange behavior is to immediately vote for it. So far, he's voted for Chaotix, and Kagemusha, and... who else?

He has a trigger happy style you just have to love. And it's pretty keen stuff too. Didn't he vote for the mafia on round 1 of the previous game, and said Niklas had some explaining to do?

Sometimes this stuff isn't luck, man.

Vote: Chaotix

Smell of a scum in the last post.

I heart beefy.

Sigh. I really think we should lynch the scanner. How long are you going to eat his BS? Pressure vote: pevergreen. Reveal your source or die I would say.

And that's why Nictel is a townie.

Because a Sith wouldn't post that.


Oh my... here comes the Joooray wagon.

And... another Ignoramus wagon.


Another dozen reasonless wagon votes on either one.

I don't understand the reason for voting Joooray at this point. Like Zack says, this seems more like repeated jeb situation than anything else.

Vote: Chaotix

Ignoramus would be a fine vote if it wasn't for Beskar's perpetual wish for having him lynched.

So, the person not following these wagons votes for a neutral who is trying to fall to the dark side.

What does that tell you? If you don't follow the crowd, and the crowd is wrong, you have a chance of being much closer to the target.

Voting yourself to prevent death by inactivity?

Think of incredibly unhelpful behavior.

Now concentrate.

And now, think of the word "townie".

Now, put the two together.... what do you get?

XD

Don't bad guys like to do two things: Blend in, and look helpful?

When they're not being helpful, they're blending in. When they're not blending in, they're revealing their perfect information syndrome or they're lecturing townies about being better townies.

Townies, meanwhile, aren't voting, voting themselves to avoid a WOG, or voting for known townies, or they're revealing their special powers very early on for no reason, or they're finding other innocent townies guilty and they weren't about to be lynched.

Bad, unhelpful behavior is what townies do. It sticks out like a sore thumb, because it's soooooo bad that only a townie could do it.

vote: Ignoramus

When the whole town is doing the failwagon, even excellent players start to clam up and there's no need to bother with having an intelligent discussion.

It's like bad behavior is contagious.


Post 1562:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053227015

Here, the reason for the repeated failures becomes apparent. Scanning twice wasn't actually why Joooray learned this, but because he scanned WHILE KILLING, so he KNEW that the scan was accurate.... which meant that he knew for a fact that "Dark Side" did NOT necessarily mean Sith.

Which was funny because (surprise!!) killing people turned him to the Dark Side and he wasn't Sith either.

Only now, at the end, do you understand....

Could you be any more suspicious? I will gladly help you on your way

Vote Remake

This works to avoid suspicion for a while, but you can't survive the game like this. And, you could get vig killed for the heck of it.

It's not a winning strategy in a game this big with vigilantes.

My name is TinCow, and I approve this message.

Case in point. Even butt-kicking Tincow isn't contributing much of anything now. Why should he lift a finger when the general consensus has already been decided?

Apathy, voting with the crowd for no reason, reasonless suspicion, it is contagious, and deadly to the town.

Heh. I find it funny that people are voting for me solely because I'm the second/third place candidate and Sasaki did it first, otherwise giving no reason.

Well you look nervous. Is it the scars? Do you wanna know how I got em?

do you really? do you really FIND IT FUNNY?

HIT HIM!!! HIT HIM!!! GET-

Why is it funny to you? What is that made you laugh while you were typing that first post?

Oh, it was more funny as in "strange" than funny as in "made me laugh". (Your second post made me laugh.)

But I suppose it's the fact that you could be so dead set on lynching me and so wrong at the same time. And the fact that townies follow you blindly without you even giving a case.

Usually even ATPG has to give something resembling a wall of text to get people to follow him.

Whenever there's an image of townies blindly following me to their doom, it's a scumbag saying it.

This is the equivalent of rolleyes.

I will vote: Ignoramus and reserve my judgement on Jooray for later.

See, when you have a huge wagon on one suspect, and a wagon on another, that limits your options.

Now we're voting for people because, and specifically because, they are not Joooray.

Think about it for a minite. It's totally foolproof. How many people in the game are not Joooray? It can't be that many.





First Place:

Ignoramus: (21) Zack, Choxorn, Khazaar, Death is yonder, ByzantineKnight, Double A, Joooray, Ironside, Nictel, Seon, Jarema, Nightbringer, Link, WEW, Autolycus, Renata, Yaseikhaan, Chaotix, slysnake, Diana Abnoba, Frozen in ice,

Second Place:

Chaotix: (5) Sasaki, Beefy, God Emperor, robbiecon, Antikingwarmancake88

Third Place:

Joooray: (2) pevergreen, Ignoramus
remake20: (2) landlubber, Captain Blackadder

Fourth Place:

Link: (1) Csargo
Frozen: (1) Psychonaut
Sasaki Kojiro (1) Diamondeye
Cecil XIX (1) Yaropolk


Abstain: remake20 (vote not bolded)



And so, Ignoramus is finally lynched because he was not Joooray, because he was suspicious for the reason of he was interested in the game.

And he survived.

I lol'ed.

Day Nine: Read my lips..... No new suspects!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

True, that was me killing Stuck in Pi. I did it as an attempt to appear elsewhere in the write-up, thus trying to proof that I can not be one of the killing Sith. I chose Stuck in Pi, because he wasn't participating at all and I didn't want to kill someone that was useful to the town.

It appears though that my action were in vain, as there seem to be not Sith kill tonight (though to possible Sith attacks), just people killing lurkers, like me. I was half expecting not to be attacked this night, either because the Sith feared I'd be protected or able to defend myself, or because they thought I'd be a good lynchbait this round. Still no attack on neither myself nor Iggy, both claimed Jedi Master, seems curious and I don't know if I can trust Iggy's claim, nor do I know what further I can do to proof that I'm not a threat to town.
I will, however, refrain from killing in the future and concentrate on investigation and protection.

Here, Joooray does what seems like a wise idea, which is openly admit to a vig kill.

But, the outrage over this move only makes things worse for him.

I could be the only jedi with Double edged light saber
Rawr!

Beefy is a deadly, deadly jedi.

Don't try and lynch Iggy again, since I think he might be telling the truth. Look for someone who is just doing enough in the game and that is a likely Sith, so that he does not need to be active enough to be suspicious. FOS: Cecil XIX.

Good contribution from the dead.

Cecil is fine. I checked him out the night before I died.

Good contribution from the force ghost.

I missed a few days. Can somebody tell me why the self confirmed killer Joooray can keep doing what he's doing without being under suspicion? Are we sure he isn't Sith? Or did I miss something?

Good question from the dead.

Was Stuck in Pi a suspect? What about Ignoramus? Is he no longer a suspect?

I like these kinds of questions. It generates "good" activity and keeps many people informed of the facts.

Facts tend to wander away from our minds after a while.

You've limited yourself to nothing more but short posts this game. It's starting to freak me out.

That's Nictel. That's how he plays. He's kind of like Khazaar in that regard.

What's the case against Ignoramus? Why is it better to lynch Ignoramus than to lynch Joooray? Do you have an opinion on other players?

:swoon:

This is why Andres is a great townie.

Running around and killing innocent Jedi at night is not "off". It's about the worst possible way to prove your innocence

"Please, ignore my red skin with black dots and my red lightsaber. I'm innocent! I-N-N-O-C-E-N-T. To prove it, I will now kill a Jedi during the night."

Lynch this clown already.

Ah yes, this sounds logical.

In fact the best way to remove the Sith is to block one until you find the other, and then kill them both at night and lynch any survivors.

Random vigs can bring you closer to that, but unless it is followed up by an equally successful random lynch/vig, they can recover.

It does at least show that one of Joooray's actions was being taken up.

Vote: Jooray. If you are getting people killed that come out as innocent and now also directly killing people who come out as townies. I think now is about the time to reveal your identity once you have been lynched.Then no one has to guess why are you causing this mess anymore.

Kagemusha doesn't want vigilantes running around. Revealed, his opinion is.

Who is most frightened of vigilantes? I do believe the Sith are, and for good reason.

vote:Ignoramus

If anyone doesn't find the above set of posts scummy, they need help.

At least this vote is based on his actual words. That's better than no reason.

Pever if you're talking to mr. Purple saber, he already got 4 kills and 2 survived, not counting any possible attacks were the saber wasn't used.
The second attack on Beskar and the second attack on dcmort93 I get, but that's one odd record there.

Is mind trick a defensive power? Since he seems to get two defense powers then.



Not seeing that part as obvious in the write up. Several of the sith attacks got "join me" or "only the dark side can fuel your victory" as part of the write up.

Vote: Joorey
Killing to prove your innocence isn't that good of a defense. And we don't know if sith can use a differently coloured saber for attack or not.

Sith want Joooray dead. That's what the deal is. They don't like vigilantes.

Looking at the write-up...

Joooray has killed at least two innocents now, and has even tried to get his victims to become apprentices. Even if he started out town, he has definitely fallen to the Dark Side by now (he even mentions it in the write-ups). He doesn't have to be a Sith to be Dark Side; rather he is probably some kind of unaffiliated dark Jedi now.

The write-up practically slams it in our faces, but nobody is voting for him. Why?

Vote: Joooray

Neutrals want Joooray dead, because they lose when they die, so they don't like vigilantes.

Of course, Joooray is neutral. So they could have been allies instead of enemies.... but I don't think Chaotix realized, or if he did, he didn't care.

So far, three non-townies are going with the "OBVIOUS PRO-TOWN MOVE" of lynching the vigilante.

Why is that? Sense a pattern, do you?

pever, when did the Mr. Purple Saber Man reveal to you? What name did he give for his character? I personally find it hard to trust him, but I am still uncertain. If we count all of the night actions conducted by someone using a purple saber he did the following:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Night 1 Kills Beskar
Night 2 None
Night 3 None
Night 4 Attacks Rebel Jeb and fails
Night 5 Attacks Dcmort
Night 6 Kills Beskar again
Night 7 Helps Kill Dcmort
Night 8 Kills Remake

All of these night actions can be plausibly explained as trying to help the town. On the power's side of things, he's used Form 3, 5, and 6, Mind Trick, and Force Push. I think having three forms means that he is pretty powerful, either a knight or a master. So if he claimed a name that lined up with a name promoted to one of these positions, then I would find it much more likely that he is pro-town. However, in most of his night actions, he is described as aggressive which doesn't help his claim. I guess in the end he seems pro-town like, but we still shouldn't put too much trust into him.

As for Jooray, his explanation fits but would also fit a Sith trying to escape being caught. I for one found the description of his battles quite Sith like, but there are a few things to note. First Ana states, "... then you are a Sith Lord" to which Jooray responds "Am I? Not quite, Ana..." I am going to hedge my bets and say this really is true, which does help Jooray's case. However, the way this is stated also makes it sound like he could be something similar...

Second, there aren't any other night kills that match what we know for sure about Jooray exactly. From the last two nights we know that Jooray has a blue lightsaber, knows Form 3, and can use Force Push/Wave and Force Lightning. Though only other kills that have any of the same traits are the following:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Night 1 Attack on Jacen Sky: Blue Saber, but Form 2 used
Night 2 Attack on Yogal Sec-barr: Force Lightning
Night 3 Attack on Sec-Sar Jor: Force Lightning

Looking at all of this put together, I find that I am more suspicious of Jooray until pever tells us more about Mr Purple Saber Man. Not sure what to think of Ignoramus.

Vote: Jooray

Chaotix has been careful not to act too scummy with his kills. He wants to be able to explain his behavior as pro-town, especially now that he revealed to pever.

This is convincing even those he hasn't revealed to that he's townie.

I do not know what I can do to prove my innocence. I told you I am Jedi Master An-Wan Dyas, and extremely important to the town. The Sith wouldn't have targeted me last night because they want to use my as lynch-bait. For crying out loud - I had a blue light sabre and lost an attack against me two nights ago. I do not have Force Breath anymore - you've exhausted that, so you will finally get rid of me this time if you want.

Just could someone please list your main suspicions against me, and I'll answer them. If the sole reason you suspect me is because I'm participating then that's pretty low.

Ignoramus' defense of himself becomes heroic at this point. How he still lives is beyond me, but it's pretty awesome.

He is now Sith bait. Come and get him, boys!

I'm not entirely sure what you aim at, but as I said, I only got my vig ability after scanning dcmort for the first time. The results I got from pizza on dcmort made me think he was Sith, they were: "Susceptible to the Dark Side, and you sense that the Dark Side is already present in this one." And as I also said before, I got carried away at that point, partly due to the circumstances in the game, partly because I didn't think far enough. Only after I investigated dcmort a second time while attacking him the night after he survived the lynch did pizza give me some hints on how to interpret my results, they were:
You are beginning to realize that susceptible to the Dark Side means that they are not Sith yet.
When someone is not susceptible to the Dark Side, but the Dark Side is present, they are either Sith or highly resistant to the Dark Side.

So, yes my investigation results were misleading, but I wasn't aware of that, when I vig-killed dcmort.

Joooray continues his heroic defense of himself.

He's trying to avoid becoming an hero.

Random thoughts:

It has been mentioned that killing brings a Jedi closer to the Dark Side. In Capo games, killing as a townie gets you promoted to Wiseguy and further. Would it be possible that there exists a mechanic which turns a Jedi Master who uses his vig ability a set number of times to the Dark Side? In short: a Jedi Master who kills enough becomes Sith? We had a vigilante killing on N1. That same person killed again (same target). Why the N1 kill? Was the Dark Side too tempting? About Joooray, I can accept that Joooray killed dcmort, given his investigation results; I don't see any good reason for killing Stuck in Pi. "To make sure I appear in the write-up, so you guys know I'm innocent" doesn't cut it for me, as an explanation. Killing Jedi is not what a Jedi Master is supposed to do. This is all speculation and hypothesis, but I think either Joooray is Sith or he's trying to become one. We all know how tempting the Dark Side can be...

Brains..... BRAIIIINNNNSSSS..... Pizza want eat big squishy brains like these.

I think we're at a point where some discussion of the game mechanics is warranted. In the previous game, the only real chance the Jedi had of winning was keeping powerful Jedi alive for most of the game so that they were strong enough to stand up to the Sith in the end. In essence, the only players that truly mattered were power roles. I know ATPG has modified the game goals to make it less rigged than the last game, but I never got any game mechanic info beyond a Jedi Initiate role PM which never changed or improved. So, I am currently unsure of how cautious we need to be about lynching potential power roles. My instinct is to say that in mafia games, the townies need to rely first and foremost on good town play, and not wait to be rescued by power roles. Such an instinct makes me perfectly happy to watch Ignoramus and Joooray get lynched. However, if the game is still a lot like the first game, playing such a scorched earth policy towards potential scum is likely to make the game unwinnable at the end.

So, the question is... what information do we have about the town's victory methods? Can we win the old fashioned way by just lynching the right people, or do we need to try and keep power roles alive to the end, like in the first game?

His caution is wise and warranted. I love the deep thought being put into this game.

This round is much more productive than the previous ones, if simply because the general IQ has been raised by about 50 now.

That's scummy. All Ignoramus has been doing is posting.

The case we had on him was the fact he was posting at all (usually inactive) and a misinterpreted investigation. Then we lynched him, and he was even attacked and didn't reveal himself to be Sith.

I'd say while it's possible, the chances Ignoramus is Sith are not high.

And you want to lynch him because he's a "distraction", Beefy? FoS: Beefy

Neutrals and Sith toss out a mix of really good townie advice, and townie-sounding advice.

Here, Chaotix' point is correct. Ignoramus is basically a suspect for no reason anymore, and not much to begin with.

First Place:

Ignoramus: (10) Nictel, Diamondeye, Seon, Autolycus, Jarema, DIY, Beefy, Choxorn, Double A, Khazaar

Second Place:

Joooray: (9) Kagemusha, Ironside, Chaotix, WEW, Sasaki, Diana Abnoba, Robbiecon, Warman, Greyblades

Third Place:

wideyedwanderer: (4) Nightbringer, CBlackadder, Frozen in Ice, Renata,

7

At least the wagons aren't insane. Options remain 5 hours before the lynch.

What's it going to be? A tie?


Yup.


Ignoramus: (10) Nictel, Diamondeye, Seon, Autolycus, Jarema, DIY, Beefy, Choxorn, Double A, Khazaar
Joooray: (10) Kagemusha, Ironside, Chaotix, WEW, Sasaki, Diana Abnoba, Robbiecon, Warman, Greyblades, Ignoramus


And, neither one died, because the weaker Jedi managed to survive with Art of Movement.

Juuuuuust barely a draw.

Day Ten: Someone besides Joooray or Ignoramus, please???

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The rounds starts off with votes of Warman, Robbiecon, and Diana.

Already we have a break from the monotony of Joooray/Ignoramus/Joooray/Ignoramus/Joooray/Ignoramus.

I am happy.

Is there a case against WeW then? This is getting mighty confusing. Ignoramus and Jooray fight to a standstill, then Jooray is attacked during the night and fights the attacker to a standstill. Did Ignoramus attack Jooray during the night or was it someone else? Last is it or there a case against Warman?

Another Kagemusha contribution.

Nice and early, avoids a lot of the grief in the later part of the round, like being forced to decide between two candidates.

Renata taught me this.


Now we have a vote on Sasaki and a vote on Frozen.... wide variety of candidates. I have a feeling we'll have a good discussion now.

Well i am going to Vote: Jooray. I cant underrstand in my right mind that if he could be among the strongest jedi right now and is on his way into turning to darkside. Why on earth we should let him live? If we attack him during night, it will only corrupt more of us, so i think he should be lynched.

Kagemusha paints Joooray with the strongest, deepest shade of scum he has on his palate.

Wrong person to go for.

Frozen votes for Beefy, and pevergreen hearts beefy.

Ignoramus- not to say that Diana hasn't been acting odd, but an active ability is hardly cause for suspicion. Most players at Knight level or higher have active abilities by now.

This is both true and reveals a bit about Chaotix.

He knows that Knights have active abilities, because he's been a knight and he has active abilities. Learned a few, in fact.

Active ability is only odd at the beginning of the game, where there are Initiates and Padawans.

Lack of an active ability probably means innocent, though. There are some stragglers without powers, like Beefy at this point had no active powers.

Unvote, vote: Chaotix

So assertive. So confident. So.... scummy.

The force is strong with you, my young apprentice...

Vote: Wideyedwanderer

His sudden activity burst did feel odd.

Jooray is at least contained for now, and it does feels doubtful that he have joined mr purple saber after tonight.

Chaotix, could you please point out the case on remake20, mr purple saber's latest dying victim? Ourside from being lurking?
Mr purple saber really feels like a serial killer with a thin excuse of sith hunting.

The double attack on Death is yonder is interesting, since the attackers doesn't seem to cooperate. If that's the case, I'm leaning towards this being evidence for two separate sith factions.

Another Sith joins an existing bandwagon. Easy to blend in if the townies make it this simple to.

I believe your reasoning completely. Killing townies doesn't tend to prove innocence though.

Please explain how using an active ability is scummy.

Tin"voice of reason"Cow everybody.


The exchange between Chaotix and pevergreen was hilarious from an omniscient perspective:

I'm not defending the other vigilante. I'm saying that Joooray is just as bad, or worse.
The purple lightsaber vigilante has killed Sith in addition to innocents, but Joooray has only gone after innocents so far.

Basically, I'm saying Joooray is saying "But he was doing it too!" and then using it as his defense. That kind of reasoning doesn't make Joooray any less guilty, he's just trying to shift blame on someone we don't know and therefore can't lynch even if we want to.

Ignore the purple vigilante, I've got his every move covered.

I think that Joooray is currently not a credible threat. I still believe his victory conditions align with ours.

I say we ignore Ig/Joooray and look at some new people. Frozen, or Diana. Either is good.

There we go... Chaotix talks about himself in the third person, and pevergreen reminds Chaotix to stop worrying about.... Chaotix.

It made me lol.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053229250

DIY puts on his thinking cap.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053229251

WEW's heroic defense.

Diana Abnoba: (6) Seon, Autolycus, God Emperor, Jarema, Ignoramus, Frozen in Ice
WEW: (6) Nightbringer, Renata, Joooray, Yaropolk, Ironside, Skooma Addict

Joooray: (4) Kagemusha, Tincow, Chaotix, Slysnake

Chaotix: (3) Beefy187, Yaseikhaan, Sasaki

Sasaki Kojiro2: (2) Robbiecon, Diamondeye

Frozen in Ice: (1) pever,



Not enough voters to end the round yet.

Diana is away and doesn't show up in time to save herself. As usual she's not exactly hovering over the keyboard.

Diana? She's often quiet, doesn't mean anything, weak reasoning.

It's scummy to defend people you can't know for sure are innocent.

"Weak reasoning" has been used all game long. What's special about this weak reasoning?

It's special because it's being criticized by a Sith. This is the "give logical reasons/look townie" strategy. It works because it blends in with other people who are positively contributing AND doesn't trigger anyone's scumdar.

It is indistinguishable from several other posts of this kind, so it works.

If I were Sith, I would not have renewed my activity. Absolutely no one besides you found my lack of activity suspicious at the time. I was not under any pressure. If I hadn't replied, it is likely your accusation would have gotten lost in the Joooray and Ignoramous cases. I chose to reply then and there because I have nothing to hide.

My claim that I wasn't on this board does indeed make sense if you had looked at my log-in times. I logged in right after ATPG's write up, but because I hadn't been paying enough attention to this game, I didn't know who to vote for, thus I decided to wait before casting my vote. Those who have played in games with me and had paid close attention to when I cast my votes would realize that I've done this quite often, regardless of my alignment.

As I said before, I had a nasty habit of missing the day phases and logging in at night when posting was closed. If I were mafia, and I had been following this game all along, I would not have failed to post/vote earlier. I am no longer new to mafia, and have played in and won as mafia before. I would not have made such a drastic mistake. Let's keep in mind that mafia generally don't miss votes, but instead lay low.

Because you are suspicious of my force breath claim, and not wrongfully so, go ahead and lynch me to prove it.

Vote: wideyedwanderer.

Another heroic defense... wideyedwanderer gives it his all.

It's hard to say how useful this is when the rest of his contributions have been rare and brief. That makes his heroic defense less convincing, because now it looks like all he cares about is surviving.

Wow, you guys really don't know how to read me do you. So many times when I'm townie, you all want to lynch me. I'm not as active in this game because of RL as I have stated before. And as for the active power I was using last night, I have been using that power since the beginning of the game. It is a protection on one player each night. So it may not be a good idea to lynch me.

Vote: WEW because I get a scum vibe from him, and also to save myself.

Delayed reaction once again by Diana.

She is always like 100 posts behind the rest of you guys. That's why she pops out of nowhere, responds to stuff from several pages ago, and then disappears again.

It gets better when there's less people around and less to read. But this is classic Diana, and people should know it by now. It's no different from Khazaar making 10 posts in a game, or Yaseikhaan making 1 post a round or every other round. It's just how it goes.

Vote Chaotix

I believe WEW. I don't believe that is is sith at least not right now. Whilst he may become one latter. I do not think he has been going out killing people.

Captain Blackadder probably understands WEW, being a less chatty player himself.

Why are you trying to lynch my Sith partner, Diana?

Beskar is having fun, but if you want a truly sadistic post-death mafioso, you need to have Andres or Kagemusha messing with you.

They are the masters of being mafia ghosts.

My favorite thing is when they pretend they're neither dead nor mafia, to trick townies who aren't paying attention into following their lead.

It's hilarious because it sometimes works.

Frozen is a decent choice, he's backed up a bit since I FoSed him a couple pages back, trying to retreat from the spotlight?

Psychonaut spreading the suspicion around. He's a master at doing this without people noticing how scummy he is.

ArpeggiateTHIS2 replaces Link

What I wouldn't give for a 60+ player game where 10 people don't drop out.

I get so tired of this. We need good active serious players, and lots of them.

Yeah, I think something is off with him.

All the Sith so far have done a delightful dance around everyone's radar. They can even talk to pevergreen without springing the trap. The mice are freely eating the cheese, and the cat doesn't notice.

pevergreen admits that catching scum by analysis or gut isn't his strong suit. I can accept that.

Vote: TinCow, he replaced Jolt who hasn´t voted in five turns in a row. I presume it´s because of the importance of the role, so I´m hoping that it´s a badguy...

No I set it up so that if I did have to replace a Sith, this kind of logic wouldn't work.

I also hated seeing 1/6th of the game disappear due to inactivity or dropouts. My game was designed for a bunch of players and the Sith are too strong, in retrospect, for the 40 player game to have been viable.

Seems the choice is either WEW or Chaotix now. As such, I will

Unvote; Vote: Chaotix

Furthermore, I think Joooray must be destroyed.

Tincow's instincts thus far have had him hop all over Kagemusha, and now two Dark Jedi.

The flood of "information" from the investigation results and talks about the viability of allying with Dark Jedi are what turn him away from these candidates. Shame he let up on Kagemusha, for TC anyway.

I rather like watching Kage go to work on the town. It's magnificent, but in all seriousness watch his behavior. I swear there are tells. You all saw the tells.

Neither. Your post is one of the reasons he still must die. You make it clear that he claims a faction other than Jedi. Third parties are not to be trusted.

Later reverses this call if and only if we can verifiably keep an eye on them. As of this writing I still have no idea if this is a good idea, but my guess is that focusing on Sith hunting is far superior to focusing on Dark Jedi hunting. Pressure on the Dark Jedi, but remind them they will stay alive if they hunt Sith, put them in a very tough position of having to help the side they know can lynch them at any time, as opposed to the side who *might* be able to murder them if they break through the Dark Jedi's defenses.

As a neutral, the call is easy; I'd support the side which is in power. Currently the Jedi are powerful and have the Dark jedi caught out. They have to help or be destroyed.

They can plot to do evil things but outright doing them is death, so they have to fall in line.

They're like rebellious soldiers. They'll fire a gun at the enemy if they're worried the enemy will kill them, or if they're worried that their superiors will shoot them if they don't shoot at the enemy. They can be useful, you just need to crack the whip.

If you don't find the Sith in time for the endgame, though, it gets real tricky as the Dark Jedi can side with the Sith and wipe out the town. It's too late to stop them then because killing Dark Jedi doesn't help the Jedi win the game.

First Place

WEW: (11) Nightbringer, Joooray, Yaropolk, Ironside, Skooma Addict, Cecil XIX, WEW, Diana Abnoba, ArpeggiateTHIS, Chaotix, Ignoramus

Second Place

Chaotix: (6) Beefy187, Yaseikhaan, Sasaki, Psychonaut, Captain Blackadder, Tincow

Third Place

Diana Abnoba: (4) Seon, God Emperor, Jarema, Frozen in Ice

Fourth Place

Joooray: (3) Kagemusha, Slysnake, Double A
Tincow: (3) Khazaar, Renata, Warman

Fifth Place

Sasaki Kojiro2: (2) Robbiecon, Diamondeye
Frozen in Ice: (2) pever, Autolycus

By now, WEW is the top lynch. Chaotix would make an excellent lynch, you need to get rid of his Force Breath to be able to truly keep him in line and threaten his life.

In this game you don't get it back once you lose it. It's already pretty ridiculous how often people get it.

The RNG is also starting to favor Force Ghost for the Jedi. I'm contemplating removing it from the random list, but I can't do that. Besides, if these guys turn Sith that helps the Sith have more Force Ghosts which can remove Jedi Force Ghosts.

Ultimately the game is still balanced because anything the Jedi get, the Sith can steal from them. That's the mental calculation I made. If it doesn't pan out, it doesn't pan out. Blame the random gods. Random choices win and lose games all the time.



Wideyedwanderer was a Jedi on the dark side of the Force. Surviving in this manner gained him another dark side point, but he's not a Dark Jedi yet.

He survived with Force Breath. The lack of deaths are leading to a situation where the Jedi, on the whole, are surviving longer as a faction and therefore gaining more advanced abilities for the endgame.

These no-lynch situations still favor the Jedi, because that means more deaths the Sith have to inflict on their own. It lengthens the game and makes it harder for them to lie and hide.

Day Eleven: How a bad lynch can be good, Part One

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Sasaki is always there to start the round. He either likes this game a lot or our schedules are really in synch. I like the former idea better so I'm just going to assume that's the case. :D

Thank you random.org.

Iggy decides to kill someone, after all the pressure that's on him.

Not only that, Belisarius II decides to protect Iggy and go light side.

These moves turn the tide back in the town's favor.

You'd think after these awesomesauce moves the town would get its act together and leave Ignoramus alone, finally, and forever, seeing as he now has the highest connection to the light side of the Force out of EVERYONE IN THE GAME and he was ATTACKED BY 2 SITH and he KILLED A SITH.

But no.... no.... he's still a suspect. I nearly wept for the lad.

Remember: if it's not logical or reasonable, it's probably townies doing it. Sorry lads, I love you guys, but it's the truth. I see it every game. Here in a remarkable amount, but it's every game really.

I swear I'm going to have my mafia partners start acting like townies who aren't paying close attention from now on. It's the only way to truly blend in, in a large game.

Besides the lurking what stands out to me is the things like "between the three, he has the worst defense" which would suggest careful and intense reading, and yet he posts very infrequently.

Sasaki makes note of Cecil's behavior.

If he had a track record of different behavior, I like this case. But as with all newbies, this is an observation of a behavior that could be typical for Cecil XIX, which he says it is.

At least it is attempting to derive motive from the possible psychological implications of his behavior, and that's why I like it. I like reasoned, psychological cases on suspects.

Not only does he post infrequently, he is also one of the last people to vote on a bandwagon from what I've seen

If this were an atypical townie behavior, or atypical of Cecil, it would be an indicator.

But this is something townies do more than mafia do. And again, we don't have a track record on Cecil yet.

That's why these cases aren't so good.

Vote Cecil XIX

He is either scum or a very unhelpfull townie both of which deserve death.

I dunno, Captain B. A lot of townies are "unhelpful", and lynching them all can lead to ruin.

Look at ACIN. he's not exactly spitting out logical cases, and Warman barely posts beyond voting. Is this considered helpful in that sense? What would happen if we spent several rounds lynching them?

Meh. You want to watch out for the players which can fool you all game long by easily blending in with the town and getting behind your guard.

Warman, ACIN, Cecil, for example, aren't actively trying to lead the town in a given direction, which gives the rest of the players more power during the daytime. It's harder for mafia to win games if they have no control over the discussion.

Psychonaut and Ironside are trying to push the discussion in a certain direction. Kagemusha has gained the trust of the most proven townie in the game. These are the dangerous mafiosi for the endgame.

"unhelpful" townies are dangerous if they sneak under the radar perpetually, but these guys can otherwise be vigged, scanned, or ignored.

Personally, I'd scan them. Mafia won't find them as threatening because they're not dominating the discussion, so they're likely to survive the night. Then you know about living people instead of dead people.

If necessary I'd vig some, scan the others. Vig the most distracting ones that are totally unhelpful in every way, and scan the rest/lurkers etc.

Given that "unhelpful" townies are still townies, they aren't a great move to remove. It's why I was all up and down defending TheStranger in the Daggers in the night game. You could tell he was innocent, just full of "personality" that clashed with the sensibilities of others. Better was to focus on actual suspects (Like Kagemusha, or Kukrikhan...)

The Grandmaster was a Dark Jedi?

And Joooray, his successor, is likely one as well.

Good job on Ignoramus for getting a Sith; I'd say there's very little chance he's not on our side now. I'd be interested to hear if he has any idea on who the Master is.

I'll go with Cecil for now, but I may change my vote later this phase.

Vote: Cecil XIX

Violating Askthepizzaguy's townie rules, volume XXXVII:

1. Asking rhetorical questions aloud that everyone knows the answer to. Comes off sounding fake, which it is.

2. Spreading suspicion onto someone (Joooray) without voting them. Which sounds scummy, because it is.

3. Good thing for town happens, must praise it. Reflexive "I'm townie" response that actual townies rarely share. Trying too hard.

4. "Our side" instead of "Jedi". Subtle, very close to the "we we we" response in psychological terms.

5. Blending in. Other people are joining the wagon on Cecil without stating reasons. Other scummy behaviors plus obvious blending in tactics sounds scummy to me.

I think the neutral thing is getting to Chaotix. He's acting like he's mafia because of his survive win condition. It messes with your head and puts you in a deceptive state.

I'm about 90 percent sure that Sasaki and Captain Blackadder is innocent or has been innocent so far.
But I cannot agree with Cecil lynch.

1.because Chaotix is on the wagon and I still think Chaotix is scummy
2.because I have this theory. If one of the member on their team is inactive, others will be active. Just to balance things out.
3.because it would be a shame to lose another lynch opportunity with force breath.

I think many people by now have force breath. So to lynch someone we must lynch them twice.
I don't think Cecil case is strong enough to get him lynched twice. Its much quicker to ask our vigilantes to take care of him.

I will Vote: Chaotix as his been scummy constantly.
His last post was scummy as well.

It was, though. I'm glad my reaction was felt by others.

I think I'll go with Psycho/pever on this. Diamondeye should know by now about relying on WoG, 'specially in a game with so many replacements.

Vote: Diamondeye

TBH a fair reaction.

It was bad reasoning to rely on the WOG to take care of suspects.

Not only would I likely replace inactive Sith, but wanting people to get wogged (likely townies) doesn't sound right.

To me it seems that Choatix is trying to deflect suspicion in any way possible to someone other than him. And on the other side of things those scans make Diamondeye seem like he is a Dark Jedi that has force breath. I'm going to go with the former for now. vote: Chaotix

Yes but a townie might also try to move suspicion onto someone other than themselves. Getting suspicion on actual suspects is one of the main goals of being a townie.

But why, exactly, is Chaotix' behavior different? What's scummy about it, and why? I'm always interested in the why.

The pressure on Chaotix here doesn't catch any Sith, but it does make Chaotix think that death is always around the corner. With less freedom to stab everyone to death willy-nilly, he's less of a problem for the town and possibly an ally.

Gotta crack that whip.

At tgiving with family and posting from phone, so you'll have to forgive my brevity.

vote: Cecil xix

Too hard to analyze from phone, following sasaki's lead.

BUT WHO WAS PHONE???

Tincow's instincts obviously aren't as good when he's not even reading the thread. I still gotta give him credit for voting, which is more than some townies can be bothered with.

Tincow is up there with Sasaki and Ignoramus and a few others for townie MVP at the moment. It's a close race.

No way are we lynching diamondeye.

Sasaki always says things with confidence and certainty that have me scratching my head.

Does he mean he's not likely to be lynched? That diamondeye shouldn't be lynched? Is he hinting that Diamondeye is a scanned townie? Is this bait for someone to fall into a trap?

I never know. It's probably something simple, but with Sasaki I'm spending time guessing what he's up to. I'm the host and I still have no idea. Sasaki is always suspicious....

i agree, i have been beginning to feel very suspicious of pever, could you post those quotes maybe?

On the other hand, pevergreen has the dubious distinction of being a dead proven townie who was slain by a Dark Lord of the Sith, that other townies still don't trust.

Rule number 1A: pevergreen is sometimes irrationally suspicious....

Still, post 1937 is almost convincing.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053230479



Joooray gives another heroic defense.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053230487

Also, I forgot in my previous post, Vote: Chaotix, he has also thrown me off for a while now.
I don't feel the case against DE and although I find it off-putting that Cecil comes out of hiding as soon as he is put under pressure and with a somewhat whimsy excuse, I will give him the benefit of a newcomer for now and the write-ups suggests the he survived (vig-)attack only with luck, which speaks more for low ranking Jedi than Sith Master or The Dark One. The Sith Apprentice is accounted for last night after all.

At this rate, the Dark Jedi will all kill each other off.

Man, Chaotix and Joooray really wanted each other dead.... the two Jedi who really should understand each other's motives.

Look up "Dark Jedi" on Wookieepedia and you'll understand how totally in-character it is for these guys to be doing this.

Dark Jedi are less trustworthy than a guy named Sasaki Kojiro wearing a bloody trenchcoat and twirling his mustache while chewing on a toothpick and flipping a coin over and over again in a dark alley at midnight.

Town needs to get it into its head that if we magically stumble across a sith in our voting, and they claim force breath (which they will have), well... Town, get your bleedin' act together. Force breath does not equal innocence.

Seon, you're working quite hard to discredit me. Why? Your reasoning is based off things that have been proclaimed false multiple times.

1. pevergreen is right. If you have a suspect, Force Breath shouldn't deter you from lynching them.

2. Seon is working to discredit pevergreen because townies don't know any better. They were there wayyyy ahead of the Sith trying to discredit pevergreen. Even as Kagemusha is telling me in his quicktopic about how he plans to further discredit pevergreen, Seon is out there doing it, because townies don't know better.

Townies don't know bout my force ghost.

Day Eleven: Why did I break this up into two parts? The mystery may never be solved. Part Two.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Well, pever, I can only answer that I must have missed those posts. (or forgot about them completely). I thought that it was quite unusual to have a confirmed, unkillable and unlynchable townie and thought that there has to be some kind of catch.

Eh, as we know that you are confirmed townie for all eternity now, do you want my role PM?

The catch is that even with all those things in his favor, and all the info he's received, pevergreen still can't single-handedly solve this game.

I broke the townie information network this time. It can still work but it is not overpowered like it was in Capo III.

The investigations are useful, but town is slow to realize how to use them effectively. Vig killings are useful, but there's a down side. Protections are useful, but not all-powerful. Sharing information is useful, but it is still difficult to outright catch Sith this way. There is counterplay.

EVERYONE HAS FORCE BREATH

IF WE VIG PEOPLE WE BECOME MAFIA

I GIVE UP

DAYKILL:SASAKI

If you keep vig killing Jedi you fall to the Dark Side which is reversible. It is to discourage everyone from mass vigilante killings, as Sigurd bluffed in the previous game (the bluff worked). Here, the bluff isn't a bluff, there is a negative consequence to vig killing, in that if you keep it up, you fall to the dark side and your death means failure, you don't win with the town because your soul is tainted. Those you killed will win if Jedi win, because their lives were taken from them unnecessarily.

Not everyone has force breath, and once you lose it, you don't get it back.

One strategy could be to remove force breath from everyone, and vig kill people who are actual suspects.

Vote on who should be vig killed, and townies should volunteer to be lynched if they have force breath. That's one idea. Don't let a non-sanctioned vigilante kill anyone. When they fall too far to the Dark Side, tell them to stop killing, and then block them or redeem them somehow. Maybe the Sith will kill them as they are a threat anyway.

Methinks Sasaki was being sarcastic or overdramatic here on purpose. I don't think I made a broken game.

Vote: Jooray He's probably a dark jedi.

Correct!



Diamondeye: (7) Psychonaut, Ignoramus, Autolycus, pevergreen, Yaseikhaan, Beefy, CecilXIX

Cecil XIX: (6) Cblackadder, Sasaki, Chaotix, Csargo, Tincow, Robbiecon

Chaotix: (6) God Emperor, Nightbringer, ArpeggiateTHIS, Seon, Joooray, Frozen in Ice

Joooray: (2) Jarema, Yaropolk

Diana Abnoba: (1) Diamondeye

Tincow: (1) Khazaar


Vote is kind of spread out here. No mass wagons! Actual chance of lynching a neutral instead of a Jedi. Still not close on any actual mafia.

I don't believe Nightbringer is guilty.

I scanned him one night when there were lots of kills and he was inactive that night.

Correct!

Seriously, the very first investigation, Investigation I, was very very useful in determining who wasn't a starting Sith, because they were always killing at night, which is an active ability.

Shame it wasn't used more, before the Sith learned how to fool such a scan.

Needed to be combined with Investigation II to see through Cloak, but WHO would have been using Cloak in the first ten rounds? Why the Sith of course.

Investigation I was really your most accurate scan for learning anything useful early on. Investigation II - how light they are - barely mattered.

Investigation IV was really useful before the Sith learned how to fool it.

Investigation III remains the most useful of all, but Sol Jade died before he could get it and as of this writing, Ronen Durdon hasn't learned it yet.

Sure we've lynched no mafia yet, but surely ATPG won't make the game impossible for the town.
Maybe this is like God Father. If we lynch the Sith Lord (twice) we win.


Though if I am Sith, then I think i've been doing better then in God Father III.

I really would try very hard not to make it impossible on the town.

I don't like broken games, and worse is when it's my game that's broken. I'd feel like a worse failure than I did in the Chicago Soiree and the Scourge of Ephesus combined. (shudder just thinking about how much I sucked in those games.... must... blot... out.... from... mind)

Also, take note: Beefy says things like "If I am Sith, I'm awesome" in games where he's really townie. He's a strange cat, like me.

I love that people try to do serious analysis on Strawberry or ACIN.

There are players that normal analysis fails on. Reenk Roink, pevergreen, Csargo, and ACIN are four of them.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053230626

Nice attempt by Nightbringer but the premise is flawed. Sith don't necessarily vote together, in fact voting together like this implies she's innocent, because it would be a rather odd move to vote with your mafia partner all the time, as it seems people make the erroneous assumption mafia do this even though they don't ever do it.

Also, any analysis of Diana Abnoba I've ever seen has been flawed. She's never been caught through analysis, but she has been falsely lynched based on bad analysis.

So remember my hints: She's always out of sync with the rest of you, trying to catch up, she's barely ever on the computer, and when she defends herself it always makes her seem scummier, and she doesn't know how to not sound that way. And that's as town, or mafia. But when she has mafia partners who can help her avoid making mistakes, she will sneak under your radar better, I'd think.

Basically, like me, if you think Diana is guilty, she's probably not. If you think she's townie, double-check your work.

ATPG you missed my vote for chaotix.

Everyone makes mistakes.

My vote is on ACIN , atpg :)

FINE! FINE!!!

I was drunk this entire time. Are you happy?

*throws beer bottle at God Emperor*

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053230683

Ignoramus tells the whole tale to pever, who faithfully reports it to the town, who decides that Ignoramus is total scum for randomly killing a Sith.

Never ceases to amaze. :D

Vote:Ignoramus. So you just decide to kill someone randomly. That is clearly not Jedi behaviour. You need to go.

Obvious Sith is obvious.

Hmph I'm going to go with that, atleast either way we can get the killcount down a notch.
Vote: Ignoramus

Obvious Sith.... is obvious???

Agreed, he should have gone a couple of rounds ago, he just slipped through our net :)

Vote: Ignoramus

Obvious.... D'oh.

Okay apparently Kagemusha's vote blended right in.

Obvious Sith isn't obvious to the town, and Obvious Town isn't obvious to the town.

Vote: Ignoramus

Everyone is getting slaughtered. Could be worse.

Yes, you could kill your most light-side top ranked non-Dark Jedi Master who just killed a Sith while being attacked by two Sith during his very first kill attempt evar.

While I don't approve of Iggy killing randomly

Nightbringer, tell us which night it was that ignoramus scanned you.

Ignoramus, don't say anything about it yet.

This is a good tactic. I like what Sasaki is doing here.

2 hours remain.



Cecil XIX: (8) C Blackadder, Chaotix, Csargo, Tincow2, Robbiecon, WEW, Autolycus, Diamondeye

Diamondeye: (6) Psychonaut, Ignoramus, pevergreen, Beefy, CecilXIX, Renata

Ignoramus: (4) Kagemusha, Greyblades, slysnake2, Antikingwarmancake88
Chaotix: (4) ArpeggiateTHIS2, Seon, Joooray, Frozen in Ice

Nightbringer: (3) Sasaki2, ByzantineKnight, Yaseikhaan2

Diana Abnoba: (2) Nightbringer, Jarema

Slysnake2: (1) Yaropolk2
Tincow2: (1) Khazaar
ACIN: (1) God Emperor

Yeah no one changed the tally between here and when Cecil died.

Shot in the dark lynch of a quiet player. At least it wasn't Ignoramus and Joooray again.

Ignoramus: (4) Kagemusha, Greyblades, slysnake2, Antikingwarmancake88

Oh.



Ignoramus, everyone loves you. You are so popular.

Cecil XIX becomes a Force Ghost, and he was an Initiate who started with that power. Of the Jedi, only pevergreen and Cecil started with that power, iirc. I think only Psychonaut had it from the Sith, iirc... have to check.

[Double A]

The Dark Side corrupts and destroys. However, without it, the Light Side could not exist. It is evil, but also a necessary evil. However, that does not mean you must embrace the Dark Side in order to embrace the Light. I say Bane should let Gith live, for it would be meaningless violence. There are not enough Sith ghosts on this vessel to destroy the Jedi ghosts, so word will spread of the Sith's defeat and of the tragic deaths of many good men and women regardless.

-----

Ooh, what was my power level relative to this chart?

[Nightbringer]

So wait, is the game over?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Wall of the Commentary


Episode III: Revenge of the Puns

Gosh, this is a pretty long commentary edition!

Day Twelve- Supertownies are super-scummy: Part One

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

5 kill attempts? This is looking very grim.

vote:nightbringer

Right on cue, Sasaki comments first.

I have to admit, this kind of post usually triggers my scum button. It feels like a nervous statement of the obvious, which scum do a lot.

But it's not. Maybe Sasaki is playing games with your head.

vote: Sasaki Mostly just on principle for that last comment.

Case in point.

@renata: Us townies are in trouble I fear, don't you think fellow townies?

It's more obvious he's baiting you on purpose here, with the "us" and the "fellow" townies stuff.

Quit playing games with my head....

We should probably be lynching someone who was not a replacement and who has not recently been the aim of a known-not-town attack, for best chance at getting one of the big bads. For that first part, the list is:

a completely inoffensive name
AntiKingWarmancake
Autolycus
ByzantineKnight
Captain Blackadder
Chaotix
Csargo
Diamondeye
Diana Abnoba
Frozen in Ice
God Emperor
Greyblades
Ignoramus
Jarema
Joooray
Kagemusha
Khazaar
Nightbringer
Psychonaut
Renata
Robbiecon
Seon
wideyedwanderer

Unfortunately for my suspicions of their changed behavior, neither Sasaki nor TinCow is in that group in their current incarnations. So

unvote: Sasaki

That's 22 people not counting myself, just about getting to be a reasonable size to start looking at posts and votes as a whole.

And here, Renata knows she's a Sith. Watch her activity level suddenly spike.

It's getting down to it, probably. 33 left (plus three town votes from dead people potentially), how many of them not town?

Still, she says she stopped being busy IRL so, this could be not a fair cop. But hey, it's stuff that usually triggers my scum meter, and she's doing it just after she became scum.

Even if it isn't a reliable trigger, it's an effective one by sheer dumb luck this time, perhaps.

ill vote:diana abnoba for the reasons ive stated already. however, i would like to hear what other cases people make as there really isnt much on diana abnoba.

Yeah. The case on Diana was simply that she was posting once a day or less.

Why would she keep doing this if it was racking up votes for her, if she had any say about it?

Flawed reasons, but at least its a different suspect.

Vote: Kagemusha

Correct!

New suspects = awesomesauce.

Vote: Acin for now. .

All that town confusing behavior

This is like voting ACIN for having a completely inoffensive name.

5 attemts? Ouch, we realy need to get that down. Vote: Ignoramus

This one was just painful to watch. It is wrong in so many different ways.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053231224

Ironside antagonizes Chaotix. This might turn Chaotix even more towards the town and less friendly with the Sith... who knows.

Back from holiday now. Can anyone tell me if Renata has ever been attacked?

Oh Tincow, the combination of skill and luck you're displaying shows me that you are indeed strong with the Force.

Right as Renata turns Sith, Tincow is accidentally all over her.

I disagree. I've never seen Seon do that before as mafia. And that will gather too much attention on him.

Beefy is thinking critically here, and it's good to see him roll up his sleeves and get into the fray.

Seriously? Ignoramus is still alive?

vote: Ignoramus

Some just don't let it go. It's a good thing Double A doesn't have a vig kill ability...

He kind of did kill a Sith.

Seon- voice of reason???

Look at what you've gone and done, townies. How could you let this happen?

unvote, vote:chaotix

Picks up on Chaotix' nervous reaction to Ironside's pressure.

Vote: Joooray, I hope you will do the same.

Before he edited it out, he had posted a paraphrased version of investigation results that show Joooray is on the Dark side of the spectrum, but still not recruited.

This is basically an innocent result. He's not Sith. But once again, people make the mistake and think OMG DARKSIDE MUST KILLZ.

Vote: Joooray I think he is a Dark Jedi.

Correct!

Not even following the game too closely and she can see this. It's obvious, isn't it?

Pfft. You just told the town you're trying to create discord and you're not working in the town's interests.

If it was at all in doubt before, which is unlikely since you're a confirmed Sith, then you have removed it.

I'm going to take the same route I did with Beskar: just ignore him and he will go away.

The exchange between Chaotix and Ironside is funny to watch. Chaotix is acting super nervous here.

He's trying too hard to discredit a known, dead Sith, IMO. He's already died in disgrace, trying to further tarnish that image only tarnishes your own. It smells desperate.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053231296

Cecil XIX takes a wild stab at a suspect, and gives it his all.

Nice attempt.

So wrong.

His own case is undermined by the data he uses on Sasaki, which proves that kill numbers were high before and after Sasaki rejoined, and on the night Sasaki could send in orders, kills were lower than average.

It is a bad case, but a valiant attempt by a new player.

I would say at this point, lynching Joooray is a bad idea. Thinking about it over the past couple of days has made me change my mind.

Basically, this is our situation:

There is the town, there are the Sith, and there are any number of Dark Jedi.

The Sith are out to kill us. Period. The Sith are also clearly out to kill the Dark Jedi.

The Dark Jedi just want to survive. They are Neutral. Since the Sith are trying to kill the Dark Jedi as well, right now their best chance of survival is to team up with the town.

And if the town and the Dark Jedi get rid of the Sith together, they have both satisfied their victory conditions.

But if we lynch one Dark Jedi, if we take the policy that Dark Jedi should die, then we turn a potential ally into a certain enemy. There is no way any Dark Jedi will want to help the town if we start killing them- they're out for survival, so they'll basically become a bunch of serial killers we have to deal with.


So... I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd much rather have them on our side than against us.

In other words:

I am a Dark Jedi, and I am allied with the Dark Jedi Grandmaster.

Please don't kill me or my Dark ally. We'll play nice.

True, but anyone can become one.

Are you one?

Obvious Dark Jedi is obvious.

Has Joooray been scanned? What does that even really mean? We've been down this route three times already and our fingers have been burned by it every time. On top of that is Ironside saying he's "EVIL", that's reason enough to not go after him. Nope, not buying it, not doing this again.

vote: Diamondeye

He should have gone last round, he's been interacting weirdly, posting scummily and acting inconsistent.

1. Rhetorical questions posed to no one in particular.

2. Reminder of bad things that happened before.

3. Focusing on the Sith behavior, as if that automatically means you should do the opposite.


None of this tickles anyone's nose hairs?

Vote: Diamondeye

Just about done caring about this game.

By now, pevergreen has probably seen the Jedi Holocron data Joooray sent him. He realizes how enormous his task as a coordinator truly is, and nearly resigns in defeat.

He basically asked me in private if he could drop out. This isn't pevergreen's strong area, and he's already low on enthusiasm since he died so early.

Jooray was scanned last night. He is susceptible to the Dark side

Such a bad thing to announce publicly.

Imagine if they could recruit him tonight. What a world of hurt the Jedi would be in.

Don't let the Sith become Grandmaster. Holy poop on a stick, DON'T.

Playing with fire here. You guys are lucky Renata is Sith now. If they had picked Joooray, woe be upon ye. I'm cereal.

So was Tincow. And dcmort.

Mafia are usually on top of everything the townies "should" know and understand.

This is a good reminder, but the source is just so, so scummy. He's trying to look as townie as possible.

My apologies. Forgot the second half.
that was supposed to be "he is susceptible to the Dark side, and may already be turned to the Dark Side "

That's not what it said.... this is like the third or fourth time the exact wording of the result was replaced by paraphrasing which made the result look worse than it was.

Townies aren't learning. The scum know what the score is. The fact that they deeply understand this game should be a warning sign, an indicator of their guilt.

Alas, no....

I have no idea who to vote for now; I seriously think the town's in trouble. The inability to scan Sith makes scanning almost useless, and there are so many suspicious players that the chances of getting the right one is next to 0.

But as I have to vote:

Vote: Diana Abnoba - still suspicious in my mind.

No, scanning isn't useless!

What did the Grandmaster say about this? That the Sith Lord/Dark One had the ability to fool scans.

What use is fooling a scan into thinking you're guilty?

He's going to come out smelling like a rose! He's going to be hiding as a totally non-recruitable Light Sider!

And that's exactly what Kagemusha scanned as!

That's what Psychonaut scanned as!

You guys already found the two masters of the Sith, you just don't know it yet.

Use your logic: In Capo III, Dons scanned as innocent.

That made it possible to narrow down who they were because almost everyone else scanned as guilty after all the killing.

Here, Sith scan as total light siders, because that's how they're tricking the scans. But that's not going to be the popular scan choice! To really blend in, they should scan as Dark Side, recruitable, because more than half the players are, and it's the perfect way to hide!

But the town just doesn't get it... and understandably so.

Your scans still work, you just need to combine them with reasoning and FAITHFUL reporting of those scans.

Investigators aren't enough in my games. You must use your brains as well. I hate having the town wait for detectives to save them.

Oddly familiar. Scans don't seem to be reliable. Post/in-thread behaviour should be the basis of voting IMHO.

Supertownie Sith Lord to the rescue.

Trying too hard.

I recall him later saying he read it wrong.

Regardless, its a third varience on that investigation return. However, even without that, we know he has killed, we know he has force lightning, a dark side power.

There was no variance... it was reported wrong.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053231414

Joooray gives another heroic defense.

I heart Joooray.

Joooray is clearly either Dark Jedi or Sith. Victory conditions clearly state that Dark Jedi are not part of the town. While they appear to be not quite as bad as the Sith, they're still not on our side.

Vote: Joooray

Being afraid of 'turning the Dark Jedi against us' is a bit misleading, as they're not on our side in the first place.

Tincow seems a bit schitzophrenic on this issue. He's for/against/for/against the Dark Jedi at various points.

This is maybe the only thing he's done all game which would falsely trigger my scumdar. So he's doing well.

I swear I make a "smells like scum" or "I've got a feeling about him" envoking post every game. I only voted for ignoramus because pretending to be a vigilante is a classic mafia move and voting for jJoooray would be an even worse choice than him what with being head of the order and all.

Unvote, vote: ironsides Sorry guy but you admitted your sith and admitting you're mafia rarely works out well unless your playing a game where you cant be lynched, like beefy's Noble sons. I just dont get why you would sell out just to pin a dark jedi lable on chaotix, couldn't you do it without revealing?

What did I say about townies and their bad votes?

Greyblades is acting like a townie here.

Day Twelve: More unnecessary two-parters, Part Two

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Double post!

Ok, I just learnt a whole bunch about this game.

Summarise:

Super uber great dark one guy: Not aligned with sith, has to kill them and be only one alive to win. He can ressurect sith. Anyone that is ressurected is sith, and remains sith.

Certain lightsaber forms take you to the dark side. Form 7: Juyo II is one of the two.
Certain powers take you to the dark side.
Certain powers move you to the light side, others enable you to push someone else to it/prevent them from going to dark side.
There is a power that lets you use dark side abilities without turning to the darkside.
There is a power that lets you learn dark side powers you are attacked with.
There is absolutes at the end of the spectrum, if you hit it, you can't be converted. Otherwise you can. Very few will ever hit it.


Joooray is not a good lynch anymore.

pevergreen redeems himself as a townie leader.

This information is ALL vital to pass along. And not focusing on chaotix or Joooray increases the likelihood that the Sith will have to kill them instead of the real Jedi, and increases the likelihood that both Dark Jedi Master and Grandmaster will work with the town.

Very powerful chess move here.

That Jedi Holocron really came in handy.

It's at this point that pevergreen drops his load of information and sits down, exhausted, and not sure he can continue being a leader. He read the holocron, congratulated me on the game design, and then said he hated me.



All of these were strong compliments.

Dark Jedi have the choice of going either way.

3 factions in the game
Town (jedi)
Sith (sith master and apprentice)
Sith (dark one)

Dark jedi are between one and two.
We know what joooray is, and i think he will come towards the light side. If we take him out, we risk an unknown becoming the grandmaster, possibly a sith. Sith can become the GM.

The force is strong with you.

As of this moment, Joooray is a Dark Jedi, and a very powerful one. Do you have an actual planned course of action to convert him back to the light side within the next few turns? He either needs to be redeemed now or eliminated. Leaving him in limbo, able to go either direction depending on how the wind blows, is a very bad idea.

Correct!



At this point God Emperor points out that Andres is being suspicious.

He's a dead Jedi.

More totally townie behavior. At this rate the Sith can only be Tincow, Sasaki, or Psychonaut. I like those odds.

More like "very little light side in him", wasn't it? Without knowing how a Sith apprentice or random dark jedi would scan, you can't be certain that isn't exactly how they'd turn up. In fact this from pever:



suggests strongly that that's the case. Cecil, the "chosen one", was probably at the light side extreme. He'd have turned up entirely light. The Dark One and the Sith leader at the other end, no light at all. Everyone else, including some of the bad guys/neutrals, somewhere in between.

I do think there is a point that the Dark One himself or the Sith leader would be less likely to show up as something iffy than as something more clearly townie, which probabably does make Diamondeye unlikely to be either of those things.

Oh, and Renata now is looking awfully supertownie.

Even sharing some game-crucial information. Gosh, now it's between Tincow, Sasaki, Psychonaut, and Renata for the title of who's acting the most helpful to the town. All good players, half of them Sith.

the dark one is immune to all but 1 type of scan, that is only available to the grandmaster. Theres a bunch of GM powers.

As to keeping an eye of Joooray...don't ask the impossible. I know the roughly what he can do, and how much of it. If he attacks someone, we will know.

The darkside powers are quite obvious that they are darkside (like the force coversion - converts to sith, thats darkside. Theres a few defence ones that are darkside, but jedi dont have a way to learn them.
Jedi powers
Universal powers
Sith powers

You have to be jedi to get jedi ones, sith to get sith ones (with a few exceptions) and anyone can get universal.

Too much info here, pevergreen. I disagree any of this was necessary to reveal.

https://i205.photobucket.com/albums/...wok-mordor.jpg

No? Nothing? Not even a titter? Tough Star Destroyer.

unvote, vote:Diana Abnoba

I don't think going after Dark Jedi is a good strategy. I'm doubtful about greyblades-sith pretending to not know that ironsides is dead.

He wasn't pretending. That's pure, decent, unadulterated townie behavior right thar.

So if we now have two kind of results saying Jooray is "not strong with light side" and that "he is susceptible to the Dark side, and may already be turned to the Dark Side".
How can we monitor him? If he is susceptible ro the Dark side, wouldnt he be a perfect candidate for the Sith to convert, while the new result says he could even be turned to dark side? I cant understand why he should be kept alive. Vote: Jooray

Kage, no....

He's so scummy! Come on guys, aren't you seeing this? He's way too focused on Dark Jedi. The consensus from the townie leadership is that the Dark Jedi are fine for now.

Kage wants them dead. He likes playing dangerously.

You misunderstand the concept of recruitment in this game. The Sith won't recruit until one of them dies, and when they recruit, at least the Sith Lord can pretty much recruit almost anybody. That's what the holocron says.
Have you even bothered to read my last posts? Or why do you bring up these old scan results? Have you read what I said about the the interpretation of scan results?

Good questions. But Kagemusha misunderstands nothing.

The fact that he's "misunderstanding" ANYTHING implies that he's a scumbag.

Where's a good old fashioned OMGUS reaction? Vote the traitor!!!

unvote, vote:kagemusha

Sith are dark jedi hunting rather than scum hunting, and that post takes the cake in that regard.

can't be bothered to reread extensively and see who else has been doing it

Triggers Sasaki's scumdar for like the third time this game, always based on his ENTIRELY scummy posts.

Come on, guys, he's RIGHT THERE! HIT HIM!!! HIT HIM!!! He's making errors! Bad ones! Get him!!!

Fos Sasaki. Have you lost your logic somewhere along the way? If we have a grandmaster suspectiple to the darkside and Igno just killed a sith.Who would the other Sith convert if he had even a cell of brain left?Edit: That should answer your post also Jooray.

Now Kagemusha has slipped into lecture mode.

Kagemusha has become a super-saiyan.

So, Tincow, Sasaki, Kagemusha, Psychonaut, and Renata are all acting like supertownies, among the remaining living suspects.

Of them, three are scumbags. All three Sith.

Super-townie. It's super-scummy. I did it in Swords and D20's Three when I lectured people about No Lynch on round one due to townie power roles.

Renata told me it was scummy. She was right.

All three Sith are guilty of it here. That's why it is an indicator. There are dozens of Jedi, only three Sith, and the Sith:Jedi ratio in the "supertownie" column is 3:2 presently.

Toss in Joooray and Chaotix if you want. They're on top of this game, and they're neutral, making it 5:2 scummy versus townie in the "supertownie" category.

Townies don't know what they're doing, with a few notable exceptions. Sith and neutrals are ALL OVER this game.


And now I see three Renata posts and a Kagemusha post. The Sith are now dominating the discussion.


Diana takes the lead. She's got Force Breath and Force Ghost, and started the game with neither and was a lowly initiate with the weakest (and thusfar, least effective) protection power in the game. She already begins the game on the dark side of the spectrum.

Lynching her will make her fall further to the dark side, but that's ok because she hasn't vigged anyone yet.

Lynching inactives isn´t the worst idea, looking at people who have been replaced even though they should have been wogged probably isn´t either. The so called solid information (investigations) hane´t been all that sucsessful. Maybe it´s time for a new aproach Vote: Tincow

Points for being different. He's going after a super-townie kind of player. Tincow could have been recruited by now, too.

Joooray is trying his best to get back to the light side. And from what I read, I think its genuine.
I advice to leave Joooray alone for now

The townie info network flexes its muscles to spare Joooray.

Will Joooray be grateful? More important, will he be LOYAL?

Two. I'm not sure if it representative though, as I used Force Lightening, which could push one to the Dark Side faster than other ways, because of it being so cruel. At least that's why I deduce now afterwards.

An awfully brave thing to say to a group of Jedi. I killed one of you with Force Lightning.

This kind of honesty helps him out. I think the Jedi Order is ready to accept Joooray's plea for atonement and redemption.

Practically speaking, if it is to be between Diana and Diamondeye, then I'd rather lynch Diana. I don't believe Diamondeye is worse than a Dark Jedi, while Diana ... well, pever knows my thoughts on that. We'll see what happens.

unvote, vote: Diana Abnoba

I think Renata has more posts this round than all previous rounds combined. Not sure on that, but it's a massive spike in activity.

This really is an unusual shift, right after her conversion. Bad timing, or tell?



Diana is far in the lead now. She will be lynched, and she will survive.

I predict some vig will try to take her out, possibly succeed, and then she'll be a Jedi Force Ghost.

A better outcome than her being converted, possibly. This kind of delay also keeps the rest of the Jedi alive and well for longer, weakening the Sith's position. Just kill Kagemusha, guys.... you'd be all set.


Once he's gone, you own the remaining Sith team. But you will never win if you don't punish kagemusha for his damningly obvious Sith behavior.

I really think he pushed the envelope on purpose because he has cojones made out of unobtanium, but I swear to all that is holy, I'd have been crawling all over him for at least half of the posts he's made this game.

They violate basically all of my scum triggers that I use every game.

You're so lucky I'm not playing, Kage. *evil stare*

Day Thirteen, or: How I Made Massive Screw-ups And Learned to Deal With It.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

So today, Robbiecon is slain. But only because I didn't read the Sith quicktopic all the way, I took their orders early, wrote them down, and never checked for changes. So I magically press the delete button and bring him back to life.

So, Robbiecon is proven innocent and Bip Kenner is proven not-Sith (not one of the Sith teams, anyway, since he was attacked by Sith. Could have been the other).

Because it's the endgame and this could have ruined the game for any of the Sith due to MY error, and the town gets massive advantages for this round and any round that robbie and blackadder survive, the only compensation I could offer was a Sith Force Ghost to Renata.

Sorry guys. Leaving it alone would have unbalanced the game, this was the only way. It's what I would have had to do if I noticed egregious cheating.


Anyways, let's read some gosh dang commentary.

Herp derp derp.

I think we can stop voting joooray.

People: send me stuff if you attacked someone.

Vote: Diana

Technically the writeup didn't prove Joooray was innocent, but perhaps pevergreen thought that Chaotix or Ignoramus were a Sith Lord attacking him.

If that was the logic, it was all wrong. But Sith dying is better than neutral Joooray dying. So that part is right.

pevergreen continues his subtle leadership style. Very decentralized and mostly hands-off.

A mini bandwagon forms on Diana Abnoba. Not at all unexpected. Why do you guys think she's still alive? She's total lynch bait.

imo this bandwagon is silly and is growing way too quickly. Iirc she was scanned as having used an ability (?) , which she did not explain what was, else it's about her inactivity. Just two days ago she did not even vote. Those who participated in the zelda mafia at TWC knows that her inactivity there was very similar to the inactivity she shows in this game.
People may ofc vote for her , but we are on day 15. Plenty of stuff in the game thread to go back and look at.

Autolycus is a person I have checked, and his posts are nothing but bandwagons and 'ay ay great leaders' x 3 times. He did not vote day 12 apparently, and imo, that's about the only thing that speaks in his favour. Might just as well show what it is I am thinking of.

'Our leaders' posts:

then there is a post like this which I don't know what to make of

I guess that would make the zelda game(?)... There Diana was Innocent and you were mafia. You didn't kill her, and that cost you your mafia victory . I don't exactly understand why you wish to use that in this game

This post is just... She didn't show up yesterday durring her bandwagon and the thread is closed durring the night phase. There is hardly anything on her, and she as obviously not had the chance to defend herself, unless you think she avoids this thread on purpose?

Basically this is just your mafia style imo. You follow the leads of others and else you just stay quiet to avoid detection. I don't like your playing style in this game and for now I will vote for you, but I will ofc keep searching the thread , which I would encourage everybody to do

Vote: Autolycus

So after some 6 or 7 votes on Diana for no reason, God Emperor tries to go for another option.

It's lemming time - Vote: Diana Abnoba.

Seriously, though?

Do we consider being a lemming a good thing?

*townie pizza has a grumpy face*

I'd like to vote:Nightbringer.

Please reference his shallow vote against Grayblades yesterday, among with a few other things from earlier that I'll drag up tomorrow if I have time and no one else has done it first.

Renata-Sith avoids both the Autolycus and Diana wagons, which are now almost tied.

Vote: Chaotix

There's a chain missing from his posts, like he's started at A gone to B and then to C elsewhere, but in his posts he simply goes from A to C. What are you hiding?

Psychonaut-Sith goes for the dark jedi. Things are now getting interesting. How does Chaotix react?

"What are you hiding?" seems a bit fake-sounding to me. But hey, I know the answer so maybe it's just obvious in retrospect.

For lack of better targets for vigilantes tonight, I'd take Pyscho and ACIN.

Jack Krauser says: NOW you're talking.

Psychonaut is a Sith Lord, and ACIN is a jedi who desperately wants to kill everyone he can for the lulz.

Both need to die.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053232422

DIY makes a big case on Nightbringer.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053232431

Nightbringer uses Heroic Defense on DIY. It's super effective!

Wild DIY has fainted!

Nightbringer gains 15 exp points.

What's this? Nightbringer is evolving! Press B to cancel.

Dun dun dun dun dun dun dun da dun dun dun dun dun dun dun da dun

Nightbringer evolved into Nightreaper!

Yeah, you read it right. I took that joke all the way to its natural conclusion. Betcha didn't think I knew about pokemon. Well I know all about pokemon! Why can't a dude in his late 20s like pokeman? There's nothing odd about that. In fact, you know what? Instead of doing commentary, I'm going to talk about all my favorite pokemans and why.

1. Pikachu

Because duh, everybody loves Pikachu. Pika Pika!

2. Charizard

Because fire is good and it's totally a flying dragon! The only thing that would be better is a ninja. So I nicknamed him Ninja. Wouldn't it be cool if it was a fire breathing dragon ninja!?

3. Squirtle

HES SOOOO CUTE OMG. I dont want to level him up because I dont want him to faint in battle I would just die.

4. Magikarp

Some guy sold me one and so far it sucks, but I dont have a lot of pokemans so I have to use it until I get moar.

5. Pidgey

Because it knows gust, and I like the animation it uses. It's pretty badass.

6. Metapod

If you use harden a lot you can't die! Well it takes a long time anyway. Plus he's got string shot, so that's pretty kewl too I guess. I have the bestest pokeman team evar!

Fine, I'll go back to commentary. You guys are no fun.

I had the impression that at least one of your attackers used a Dark power - so the writeup would have it look like, at least. So blaming it on vigilante killers, solely, might be naïve.



I think duels are a bad idea, becuase frankly, in order to take down the Dark One or the Sith Master, I think we'd need to send in someone as powerful as them - ie a Grandmaster or something the like - and we don't want the GM placed even near a tie since it'd be too easy to last-minute lynch him. No, I don't think duels is the way to go, although I understand the argument.

I like the case on Autolycus, but I still have this nagging suspicion about Diana, and we rid her of Force Breath last lynch, so now would be the perfect time if we really want to lynch her. I'll have to ponder this some more...



I attacked Nightbringer last night, not Renata. From his posts, you can already deduct his character name, since he clearly mentions that he is the one being attacked with an emerald lightsaber - and there are only one of those in the writeup.
I do not have the impression that Nightbringer is worth pursuing at the moment. He acts... odd, perhaps, but I think it's merely an attempt to be helpful by trying to construct cases on people, even if it comes off as quite scummy. His powers in battle were not overwhelming even if he survived, my results quite clearly dictate that we were quite equal. I started as an initiate and have only been a knight for a couple of nights (since the great promotion-fest), and I think both the Dark One and the Sith Lord would be able to easily defeat me - even outright kill me in self-defence - without revealing their true identities.

As such, I don't think there's a case against Nightbringer. I'm on the fence between Diana and Autolycus, but one I'd really like to have more attention is - paradoxically - Renata. She's told us herself she hasn't got Force Breath, so it'd be a clean lynch, but I seem to recall pevergreen advising against her lynch.
Vote:Renata. pever, feel free to explain to me in public or private why Renata should be left alone.

Renata eh? Excellent choice Diamondeye!

We all know protestvoting leads to the darkside, blurring the boundaries between light and darkness...

Vote: robbiecon

Sorry, but this vote pretty much guarantees that Khazaar is not Sith. I love it.

Remember kids, if it is voting for people who are known innocents, you got yourself a townie.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053232494

pevergreen feeds the town some info, but also does this thing where he says "wrong" about things that aren't wrong, without even stating why.

Not sure what's up there.

So, essentially, we need to kill the Dark One first, then the Sith Master, then the Sith Apprentice. The order needs be done properly, and the Apprentice needs to be killed very quickly after the Master. Sounds easy!

I know, right?

Oh, also...

Unvote; Vote: Nightbringer

Make it a choice between him and autolycus. It's absurd to lynch Diana again. She hasn't posted anywhere on the Org since Sunday. That's not intentional lurking, that's simple absence from the forums.

Tincow uses thinking. It's super effective!

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053232569

Diamondeye takes issue with pevergreen's leadership style.

unvote; vote: Captain Blackadder

Too many coincidental and safe votes.

Coincidentally, he failed to kill Blackadder. This move should have raised some eyebrows, but...

You've got to be kidding me on the Diana vote...

Unvote; Vote: Autolycus

The round almost ends in a tie, but TC decides the round instead.

Diana's death would have given you another Jedi ghost, leaving Autolycus alive.

However, Tincow is trying to catch Sith with active involvement and trying to avoid bad lynches. The effort is commendable.


Wild Autolycus fainted! Tincow gains 15 exp.

Day Fourteen: I need a hero....

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

23 players remaining, and of those, a few aren't bothering to vote or pay attention. Starting to look gloomy for the Jedi. I need a hero.

I have to wonder what on earth is going on around here. Do i miscount, or did i just count 6 attackers attacking people this night? Things definetely does not seem to be as they are explained to us in the thread.

I'm sorry, this just reads as fake to me. I can't help but say it. The last sentence especially.

Nothing unusual happened that night. No one else had the reaction Kage did.

It's been like this for at least three nights now, so I'm not sure why you bring this up now.

Because it's not connected to reality, meaning it is either a deception or a brain fart. And Kage isn't one to not pay attention to the game.

Anyone else seeing this? Or just me and Renata?

Vote: TinCow
for his last moment vote switch that lead to lynching important jedi

Not in a game where the Sith can recruit. That would mean that both he and the person he saved were guilty, and it doesn't make sense. He would rather wagon that person, look good, and recruit someone else.

Dark one wouldn't bother saving anyone. So this analysis is flawed, but understandable. It's only natural to consider it a scummy move, but that's the surface. Think deeper.

Yes that is true it was basically said when Cecil was attacked.

Xando quickly stood in a Makashi stance, and the hooded figure stood in an Ataru stance. They wasted no time. The hooded figure began the attack, and soon overwhelmed the young Padawan. It was all Xando could do to keep up with this menacing attacker, and very quickly, his saber was cut in half, disarming Xando. The cloaked figure prepared to unleash the final blow, but Xando reached out with the Force, and pushed the cloaked figure to the deck plating, surprising the superior fighter.

Xando fled the scene with his life, barely evading his attacker.

Fighting to a standstill means nothing in terms of power.

Nice analysis, Captain Blackadder.

@ Beefy and pevergreen: Renata, Chaotix, Ignoramus.. you have been protective of these 3 people right ? Are you completely certain that they are jedi or is it just a feeling ?

He's right to be worried. 1 Sith and 1 Neutral are part of that group.

@pevergreen; was that assassin acting on your orders? I really hope not, as I indulged in changing my target to one of your preferences. Namely, vote:Psychonaut

Heh, you guys are right on the money. Tried to take him down, failed, time to lynch him.

Force scream? What kind of wussy power is that?

Pretty much the deadliest power in the game besides Force Kill so far. It's been pretty effective.

Psychonaut sure is strong in that writeup :o The first assasin is being completely destroyed by psychonaut and his relentless blows of furry attacks.. The first assasin even loses a hand vs this sword master
The second assasin seems to esscape by mere luck...

concidering he is one of the people that are 'most likely' to be either the dark one, or the sith more, I would say this is good enough for me.

Vote: Psychonaut

YES! Now we are getting somewhere!

These vig kills are turning out to be more important than the investigations.

Vote: DoubleA.Didnt you surface on awfully convenient moment.

Too convenient a target. Double A is too apathetic to fight back.

I agree with God Emperor. Chance of Dark one being replaced is not very likely.

Actually my moneys on Kagemusha being the Dark one. I'll test my luck
Vote: Kagemusha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBwS66EBUcY

Where have all the good men gone
And where are all the gods
Where’s the street-wise Hercules
To fight the rising odds
Isn’t there a white knight upon a fiery steed
Late at night I toss and I turn and I dream of what I need

Lynch kage!

Finding the emo-sith should be our top priority.

I need a hero
I’m holding on for a hero ‘til the end of the night
He’s gotta be strong
And he’s gotta be fast
And he’s gotta be fresh from the fight
I need a hero (hero)
I’m holding on for a hero ‘till the morning light (‘till the morning light)
He’s gotta be sure
And it’s gotta be soon
And he’s gotta be larger than life (gotta be larger than life)

Kage is acting too cool. He havn't been on the hot spot yet. Its too perfect.
He gets my vote unless I see better cases.

Somewhere after midnight
In my wildest fantasy
Somewhere just beyond my reach
There’s someone reaching back for me

Let's have a chat with zan finnay.

Racing on the thunder and rising with the heat
It’s gonna take a superman to sweep me off my feet
I need a hero
I’m holding on for a hero ‘til the end of the night
He’s gotta be strong
And he’s gotta be fast
And he’s gotta be fresh from the fight
I need a hero
I’m holding on for a hero ‘til the morning light
He’s gotta be sure
And it’s gotta be soon
And he’s gotta be larger than life

unvote, vote: Kagemusha

I need a hero
I’m holding on for a hero ‘til the end of the night

I agree. unvote, vote: Kagemusha

Up where the mountains meet the heavens above
Out where the lightning splits the sea
I could swear there is someone somewhere
Watching me

That makes no sense at all. You've already been exposed, you'd better defend yourself.

Unvote; Vote: Kagemusha

Through the wind and the chill and the rain
And the storm and the flood
I can feel his approach
Like a fire in my blood

Unvote, Vote: Kagemusha

Just what I've been waiting for. Time to die, Sith.

I need a hero
I’m holding on for a hero ‘til the end of the night
He’s gotta be strong
And he’s gotta be fast
And he’s gotta be fresh from the fight
I need a hero (hero)

Vote: kagemusha

I think we got our sith.

I’m holding on for a hero ‘til the morning light (‘till the morning light)
He’s gotta be sure
And it’s gotta be soon
And he’s gotta be larger than life (gotta be larger than life)

vote: Kagemusha, the more I hear the more I like agree. Particularly since, out of all the cases I've heard, this is the one that makes the accused seem the smartest.

I need a hero
I’m holding on for a hero ‘til the end of the night
He’s gotta be strong
And he’s gotta be fast
And he’s gotta be fresh from the fight
I need a hero (hero)

Okay, kage, when I last posted I saw no value in the accusation against you. But now, after your series of extremely scummy posts, I am going to have to unvote, vote:kagemusha

I’m holding on for a hero ‘til the morning light (‘till the morning light)
He’s gotta be sure
And it’s gotta be soon
And he’s gotta be larger than life (gotta be larger than life)

Thanks for your respons Psychonaut I don't see the reason why it would be bad to reveal to pever... he is a known innocent, and he doesn't like to share any information.. the thread have revealed that much. But you are right , I didn't play that game. I will just leave it for now.

When reviewing the thread I think that the case on Kagemusha is a decent one, when it is based on his reactions.. but saying that he hasn't been attacked doesn't really mean anything in itself. But heh.. It seems like he is suggesting that we need to lynch him twice. That is at least something I would expect from a dark one/ sith lord.

Unvote; Vote: Kagemusha

I need a hero
I’m holding on for a hero ‘til the end of the night



Not only is Beefy right that kagemusha is evil, he's guessed correctly, without a confirmed investigation result, that Kagemusha is also the Dark One, specifically. With 22 other suspects still alive. And it starts the wagon that removes his force breath ability.

Holy poop on a stick.

Beefy gets the Askthepizzaguy award.

I reckon ByzantineKnight is Sith - just a question of whether he or Kage is the Master or Apprentice.

Unvote; Vote: Kagemusha

Just so you know, Kage has been chatting with me in private and he completely pwned me
He still gets my gut feeling vote.

Good call Ignoramus, and very good call Beefy. Way to stick to your guns instead of being manipulated by the master.

I can only speak for myself, but as I stated before pever named you, the basic case against (only unaccounted for starting Master) was not great. It was good enough, however, to warrant some pressure votes. Your reaction to those votes was incredible and sold me on your guilt in a way that the original case never could.

Not good cases can lead to awesome cases.

What I learned about Kagemusha is that he's a dangerous, dangerous player, but he does leave a bunch of tells when he's mafia, and it's not just me. A lot of good players caught it early, but basically everyone caught it when he was finally put on the spot.

The case was based on his reaction, which is something substantive. I realize this is getting into bandwagon territory but if you watch how people reacted, there wasn't much steam on this wagon, and there were other suspects. But when Kage was put on the spot, more and more people saw what beefy and the others saw.

Outstanding. Town has redeemed itself. Just in time too.... can you stop Kage and the Sith?

esp?

Anyway I find it very unlikely that someone would get a high level investigation after focusing on sabre combat. I have had a few powers come from outside my specialty but none are the level of IV investigation. Your story just doesn't add up. After your learn't all the sabre powers you should have gained sabre focused force powers and not investigation powers.

Vote Kagemusha

It's fairly true. It's not unheard of, but Force users would be more likely to get those powers than Saber masters.

I like the reasons. Everyone seems to be adding their own reasons to this case. It's not just an ignoramus wagon with everyone going "me too" or the dcmort wagon (what the heck was up with that one?).

Im quite sure any of the force ghosts or the known masters can tell you that i am right in this one, so dont build your case against me based on these issues.

It's also true that a case based on just that wouldn't be much of one.

I believe this is more of a flinch. Kage's reaction was too defensive and aggressive at the same time.

I don't know if the writeup, which will show him as a calm light-sider due to his Force Trance, will even convince anyone he's innocent.

And then, when Joooray gets attacked with Oblivion, I am pretty sure that people are going to get more suspicious too.

I think Kage is done. But I can't count this guy out, he's escaped before. Let's hope that frustration and desperation force the townies to cross their fingers, stick with their suspect, and hope.

What am I messing up. I have a semi-accurate list of your force powers (only those that you revealed to me) and a case I posted here that was done by another member who didn't know who you were, he did it based off your name.

I know who killed Beskar, it was our Purple lightsaber vig, not Ig. He never claimed those kills to me.

You sent a PM saying you had no powers and re iterated what happened to you that night phase. Hardly a reveal.

A double scan for the dark one, we don't know for sure for the sith.

I'll have to ask purple saber dude what he's been doing, I havent been keeping track of him for the last few days.

How would revealing what you know (not a whole lot outside your role, I'm willing to bet) be stupid.

So you're claiming force ghost? Too bad I know for a fact Sith force ghosts exist. And I know what they can do. I know their special ability.



Vote: Kagemusha

And that's all the force ghosts and basically the entire town.

I think that's the final nail in the coffin.

I wonder....

Who will target Kage tonight?

See, this is exactly what I'm talking about. You act like the only option you have is not saying a word, or giving a complete role reveal with a huge amount of secret information that is helpful to the Sith. There's a lot of middle ground out there, and you don't seem to care about it at all. That is very scummy. Particularly so when you've already voluntarily said a ton about yourself, such as:

1) You're a Master.
2) You specialize in the saber.
3) You have obtained all saber powers.
4) You have two investigative powers, including one very high level one, and you've been using them.
5) You've been communicating with pever privately.
6) You have Force Breath and Force Ghost

So... you refuse to talk because it might help the Sith... but you give away all of that information in a completely off-hand way? I don't believe it at all. What it looks like to me is that you're scum and you didn't prepare an alibi ahead of time, so you're scrambling.

He's dug himself too deep a hole. I don't think I could come up with a big enough lie to escape from this one.

This is yet another valid criticism. Another chink in the armor.

This is not a no-reason wagon. At least they got him on substance.

You guys did it without the tier III investigation power, too. Based on old-school mafia tactics of questioning and looking for behavioral clues.

As such, this game's experiment is a success. I threw 3 types of investigation at you so far, and you haven't quite gotten the last one yet, but without really needing to use any of them, you got the right guy, and not randomly either.

The investigations were roughly 50/50 helpful and harmful so far. They didn't ruin the game for you, but they didn't win the game for you either. The town network was useful but not overpowered. Everyone had a chance to become powerful, and no one had a plain old vanilla role. The game was balanced and challenging and lengthy enough to build the tension. The game was able to have a half-dozen vigilantes at the same time, while still keeping the deaths low every night, providing for some action-packed writeups. The alignment system hadn't been done exactly that way before. The types of attacks and defenses I thought kept the game interesting and unpredictable. The Jedi Holocron (learn about the game mechanics as you go) system seemed to be rather innovative, I think. Enlightenment (protect someone from recruitment) I am not sure has ever been done before.

Even as I sit here with a likely dead Dark Lord of the Sith on my hands, I can't say for sure he will be dead tonight or even tomorrow, as town is sometimes an indecisive cluster. And what of the Sith Lord and apprentice? Pressure on Psychonaut is making this game look like it could swing back toward the Jedi for the victory. Chaotix is also getting powerful enough to have a shot at a neutral victory.

I don't know what's going to happen next, and nobody does.

I think I need to do another sequel to this game. I'm already excited to think about it...

Day Fifteen: Know the power of the Dark Side

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I've got a bad feeling about this.

I have a good feeling about this. But nice movie reference.

Ok, well I am going to stick with my vote: Khazaar from yesterday. I stated the reasons then but can reiterate then if someone requires that i do so.

I wonder... in a situation like this, should you always follow through on a lynch on a candidate that survived a lynch?

If so, Ignoramus/Joooray would have died a while back, Diana would be dead, Wideyedwanderer would be dead, and so on. But, Kagemusha would definitely be dead.

I'm not sure it's worth it to always do so.

But, if you're sure on a candidate, you lynch them, they survive, you attack them three times, they survive, and you're still pretty sure, why would you not lynch again?

I think it is a bad choice to not lynch in that situation.

However, I am also not a fan of shutting down discussion or debate. Nightbringer voting for a suspect that isn't Kage is fine here. There will still be a game after Kage's death, whenever that may be.

(as of this writing, Kage's fate hasn't been sealed yet. I predict with a 75% chance he will die, but town has a way of changing its mind after the halfway mark in a day phase. Time passes and people forget their original reasons.)

Hmm.

The sith have used the most powerful technique, and had the foresight to see through Joooray's cloak. Unfortunately, he didn't choose the right defence, even though he knew what it was.

If you hate my guts and refuse to talk to me, then please tell Beefy anything you did last night. I'd rather he know than neither of us know, otherwise, please tell me.

I promise you, once a sith dies, you won't have to put up with me for much longer after that. I just want to take one out.

Joooray was a sitting duck for days and days and days. Kage could have killed him no problem at any time.

Joooray finally gets Telekinetic Lightsaber Combat, and does not use it on the night Kage kills him with Oblivion.

So close.... so close.... Joooray, I'm sorry, but you were so very close. I know it hurts, man. That's rock paper scissors for you....

I think that the only reason that this game isn´t over is that the Dark Jedi and the Sith do not share exactly the same victory condition. Maybe we should mass reveal our names and see if we can work something from there...

I would. By now, the Sith have probably enough data to figure out who is who anyway.

Town must act as one.

Told you Joooray was Dark Jedi... there are no 'vigilantes'.

This is pretty funny. Beskar is almost believable here, but you still have to tune him out.

This is false. I don't know how or why, but I am pretty sure Beskar is lying. Probably because he is Sith. Idk, maybe he just likes to feel good about himself by tricking other people with lies. Who knows.

Kind of gives away that he's the gold saber killer here, since the other one came forward.

Vote: Kagemusha

This is why TinCow wins games; follow-through.


https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053234059


This post by pever was a good idea. I wish people had listened and gave a comment for each.

I would have INSISTED on it because I'm pushy like that.

green lightsaber vig, yellow lighsaber vig, emerald lightsaber vig, force...grip? kill, triple attack on kage, 3 jedi, attack on ig, force energy (possible second sith action), oblivion on joooray (possible third sith action).

Town is killing itsself.

Vote: kagemusha.

Here, pever is pulling his weight as town leader in a much more obvious way. This analysis is spot-on, as is the conclusion that town is killing itself, as is the vote on kage.

Three for three, excellent job pevergreen.

the green, yellow lightsabers belonged to those who died, the vigilantes used a blue and gold saber respectively.

Useful post by ACIN. At this time, ACIN is moving up the ranks of useful townies, because he is paying attention and actually making contributions here.

If only he'd stop killing innocent Jedi.... but hey, if he goes dark jedi and survives the game, it is these actions which win the game for him. High risk.

Guys, I think the best way for us to win is to not kill. We're down to 19 - and among the 19 are the Sith Apprentice, Sith Lord, and Dark One.

According to the Jedi Holocron, the Sith Master and Dark One are so powerful that even a group of vigs has an extremely low chance of success. The surest way to elimate them is by lynching - nothing but Force Breath can help them there. I'd also advise against revealing info - the Sith would pick us off lick flies.

I thus have every suspicion that Kage must be the Sith or the Dark One, so Vote: Kagemusha.

No, I disagree.

Lynch the Dark One, and then all the vigilantes vig-kill the same target.

That shows they are occupied during the evening, and aren't the ones doing Sith kills.

The Sith can still fool you here, but they both have to give up one of their attack slots. It's a seriously good strategy.

Also, lynch Master, then vig-kill the apprentice ASAP before she can recruit someone.

I know some of you dislike metagaming, but the fact that Warman is still alive at this stage of the game is suspicious in itself...

I dislike metagaming, and I still disagree. It proves nothing, just like Ignoramus showing interest in the game.

Warman is innocent, and his being alive is simply a result of no one having successfully killed him yet. With two Sith factions, that's also true for everyone.

ACIN/warman/cpt blackadder/ichigo/khaan/double a.

But what can we do at this point.

Only this.

Unvote: Kage, Vote: Warman

pevergreen demonstrates why metagaming is so bad.

Everyone he mentions here? Innocent.

And the vote switch is worse.

Don't metagame. Even if you won that way, how hollow would it be? At least vote randomly if you're not going to make a case on someone. That way you can say "oooh wasn't I lucky" instead of "I won because this player is always supposed to be dead, and he wasn't" which is lame.

My opinion, feel free to disagree. Maybe some players want to live sometimes.

I really think we need to follow through on Kage. His behavior yesterday was super scummy. He had Force Breath and claims Force Ghost, both of which would be expected for the Dark Lord or the Sith Master. He also survived an attack by three vigilantes, which is consistent with what Ignoramus just said about the Holocron.

5 stars for Tincow.

Didn't Ignoramus himself have Force Breath and didn't he himself survive a few vig attempts?

If he says we must lynch Kage for that, then we should lynch him as well, no?

Odds-wise, it makes him more likely to be a Sith, but not a Sith here.

Very few people have force ghost, half of them are Sith.

No, because Ignoramus has not behaved anywhere near as scummy as Kage. Kage's posts yesterday were some of the scummiest behavior I've ever seen in a mafia game. Nothing has changed to make him a bad lynch choice again today.

Bolded for emphasis. Even with a generic case like having Force Ghost, narrowing it down with specifics (also acting scummy) is why Tincow succeeds with a generic case.

It's generic but also specific. It is very excellent townie play.

And, from my vantage point, the logic holds for more than just Kagemusha. People found Psychonaut scummy yesterday, he's got Ghost and Breath. He is a Sith. Renata has Ghost and she's a Sith, although no one finds her scummy yet.

If you lynch everyone who has Ghost, you will find all the current Sith and lose only a few Jedi.

Kage is just being his stubborn self

He is being his stubborn self, but does that mean he's innocent?

He's putting up a good defense. One I think that does closely match how he'd behave as innocent. It just so happens, in this case, he is guilty.

His behavior before he was put on the hotseat is really where you should make your case, because you run into confirmation bias afterward, but honestly I think his defense triggered people's behavior, and not randomly or for bandwagon purposes either. Everyone seemed to add individual and unique reasons why they found his defense to be a cover for Sithness. Even Andres felt Kage was scum earlier on in the game. He just seems to have bought Kage's story/behavior here and changed his mind.

Kudos to Kage on that.

I disagree. In any case, even if we're wrong about Kage, I don't see it causing much damage to the town. He claims Force Ghost, so he'll still be able to vote no matter what. Plus, he's clearly focused on killing and I'm in agreement with those people who say we need to stop the vig actions. So, in the worst case scenario where Kage is Jedi, we don't lose a town vote and we stop a vigilante. That's about as harmless an error as I can see. My money is still on Kage as Dark Lord or Sith Master though.

It's a fair assessment. Lynching all the jedi force ghosts is actually okay as long as you do the same for the sith. Preferably in the right order, though...

Vote: Kagemusha

Beefy sticks to his guns, very admirably. I think he's usually one who can be persuaded or bargained with or otherwise convinced. Here, he shows his iron will.

the attack on Joooray is the dark one doing that.
the attack on kagemusha... Well I would say Sith. . . We have 3 people attacking him. two of them are the same that attacked joooray some nights ago. The new person.. well if the two other are sith then either they just proved the law of two wrong, or dark jedi are licking boot. And if that is the case Dark Jedi, then you must have been mistaken at some point if you think sith would share victory with you ^^

most suggests that we should go after Kagemusha. With the Dark One attacking Joooray, and Kagemusha fends off 3 sith who uses skills like Ataru, Makashi, Force stasis, Chain lightning, lightning. So if it goes as it should Kagemusha is the Dark one.

God Emperor keeps up the pressure after death, helping the town by asking for Kage to be lynched again.

you are such a little sith/dark jedi

Referring to Ignoramus, the strongest and most light-side Jedi there is alive at the moment.

So, can't win em all, GE.

People are attacking me using force lightning and i am a on the dark side of force? Last night i did what i could in order to protect myself and i am sure i was scanned by multiple people.
If you look at what i have been doing trough out the game and think about what Sith Lord or the Dark one should be supposedly doing. You should understand that i am not either of those roles. If mafias goal is to kill us all, why as mafia i would concetrate on scanning people and giving out information to the town. I cant quite recall how many nights i have been scanning people, but pever can tell that it has been long time. Not right from the start as i havent had an investigation ability for that long, but ever since i got that ability.
Why would i waste my time pretending i am someone able to investigate, when as Sith i could just say i cant scan people and concentrate on killing people. That would be absolutely crappy tactics for mafia. I am now the third eldest master on this ship and one no one can kill me quite easily. You can lynch me and i cant act as force ghost afterwards helping town ofcourse, but if the Sith are as hard to kill as they supposedly are. Who is going to get rid of them, if you lynch all the powerful pro town people? Also Tincow i dont get where you are getting that i am focused on killing when i havent made a single vigilante attack.

Some of you think that i am quite the crafty player, Tincow clearly being not one of them as you think i would give myself up so easily as mafia, but do i have to be killed as default just because i am who i am. In my opinion i am quite more valuable to the town with cleared by scans and helping the town to win the game, rather then lynched because some of the town people seem to be paranoid about me.

Kagemusha's night defenses are indefensible.

He would have to claim Force Sever or Force Plague or make one up. And if he does, they will know these are advanced dark side powers, while Kage scans as advanced light side.

The contradiction is the smoking gun everyone misses, because no one asks which defenses he used.

Missed opportunity, everyone. Missed opportunity.

Cleared by scans? Now you're contradicting yourself. Yesterday you knew as well as the rest of us that the only scan that would provide evidence about the Dark Lord and Sith Master was the GM investigation. You said as much by repeatedly asking for Joooray to clear you last night with an investigation:

Last night Joooray was killed and thus cannot clear you with an investigation. Yet somehow you now think you are "cleared by scans"?

Tin "The Hammer" Cow, everyone.

Well i don´t think revealing names will hlep the sith much unless they need to target a specific player. Since I´ve been attacked twice already I think the opposition knwos who I am anyway. I´m Jedi Master Kel Dih-Mar I doubt I will survive a third attempt so I see no reason not to reveal. I think we should really lynch inactives, there´s bound to be one bad apple between them...

Vote: Warman

No Sith among the inactives. A war between townies and further townie/vig-related deaths will only help the Sith win.

Revealing that he's Kel Dih-Mar, a new Master, reveals also he's one of the weakest Jedi in the game, and that helps the Sith.

I have to wonder Tincow. Why are you so thirsty of my blood? I said i would be valuable once cleared by investigations. Do you want to see my posts scummy so hard that you start making up things? If the town wants i can be assigned my personal force ghost that will watch my every move until i am cleared. I cant but just wonder why nothing else seems to make you happy then my death, maybe the force ghosts should point me towards you direction in order to find out your true motivations. Maybe you are doing the bidding of your master so the town will further destroy itself?

Oh gawd.

Entertaining and forceful, but I know I'd be voting for this. This kind of defense will push some of the more indecisive people away, though, so it is worth it.

Still, it just reeks so bad. The OMGUS is so pungent it makes my eyes water.

Actually, I wonder whether or not Kagemusha's guilty. Most of the kills done so far by Sith Lord and the Dark One relied on force powers, or at least I think. Kagemusha seems to be a master of blades, unlike anything witnessed so far. If the Sith Lord or the Dark One had this much skill with the blade, then surely he would have used it more often.

Seon drinks Kage's wine.

The problem is Kage, that we don't know enough about the sith.

I had a case pointed out to me earlier, and I spent over an hour going through writeups and PMs and posts, all to conclude that...it was still possible.

The fact is, we don't know what the sith can or can not do. We know they can't learn light side powers once becoming a sith. It is unlikely that investigations are a light side power though. If we go back and look at the night actions for each night, the sith could easily be investigating, and posing as someone.

Without the dual-GM investigation, no one is 100% jedi, unless force ghosted. Even a sith can become a force ghost, but thankfully, no sith force ghosts yet.

We have 19 people alive, and 3 confirmed anti-town roles alive, who knows how many dark jedi.

Unvote: Warman, Vote: Kage

I'm sorry, but I believe this is the best course of action that leads to a non-sith victory.

Don't apologize, you're doing fine.

Really guys? Lynch TinCow... He's trying way too hard to be helpful

Except if he's town, that's pretty much a necessary thing. And he is town.

So you prepared to kill basically anyone at this point who is powerful, without a second thought? What happens when all the powerful pro town people are dead? The Sith and the Dark one will kill the rest with ease. With this rate of night kills. You cant afford to lynch wrong people. You and i both know that i asked for you to get me scanned the same time i revealed at you. Why didnt you have that done? As i said in pm already.I cant understand your motivations and dont trust your judgement either at this point. I have to ask from you also as from the write up it reveals that the ones that attacked me were using dark side powers and also some of them atleast were cloaked. Did you set that attack up? If you did, then i have to think that you are played by the Sith or the Dark One, as your actions have got quite a lot people already killed.

I can count for each and every night action of mine. Tell when i have acquired what power and you have knowledge of lot what i ahve been doing. Still you dont even give me a change to redeem myself in the eyes of the town. Have it occurred to you that maybe you are yourself influenced by the mafia who may be playing you a fool?

Oh, this post however is a masterpiece. I like this defense, it attacks pevergreen's weak point, which is his view of himself as a townie leader and his lack of confidence in his own decisions.

Very nice jab. That one probably stung a little.

The rhetoric about accounting for all his night actions is pretty forceful, but in his case, ultimately inconclusive.

If he could point to a night he defended someone with Meld, or vigilante killed a Sith, he'd be in like Flynn. That's why he has such powers, to really and ultimately fool the town hardcore.

Sadly, he didn't use these powers to clear himself. I really think he could have found his way out here with a simple, calm defense and "I defended so and so night 12, while the Sith were killing. That proves I'm not the dark one" when it doesn't prove that, but it would meet EVERYONE's expectations for such.

That's the move which could have won the game for him. That's why I made it possible. I wanted to challenge everyone's assumptions about how a mafioso will behave, but it was not to be.

With all due respect, if Joooray could be killed at night, I don't think a Master, even one as strong as you, has a good chance at surviving a determined attack. I see no chance whatsoever for the Jedi to win via night actions. Victory has to come through lynching.

There's just no denying this logic.

From the people so far suggested,I think i was wrong with Tincow yesterday as it would seem he is somewhat objective, or then fooling me with a great act. But i think the best case right now is to Vote: Khazaar.Apart the case Nightbringer has shown. Late yesterday when majority were voting me he decided not to join the wagon, but instead decided to vote Diana Abnoba, who has been unresponsive for ages.EDIT:



That is only because town is so disorganized. For example why wasnt anyone protecting Jooray last night? For example Ignoramus.Maybe pever or Beefy could answer that? If we are not accounted for at slightest, nor we have any coordination in our night orders.I dont believe we can win. That is not an excuse to kill powerfull pro town people, unless it really is an excuse and the mafia are playing the town from inside out.

Kagemusha's point is very valid, dangerously so.

This might almost be convincing, except lecturing the townies how to behave is one of my scumtells. Every Sith has done that this game.

Yes, I think this is obvious by now.
If what you said is true, that would mean the sith Lord himself is one of the three who got beaten so easily. I consider that an impossibility.

vote: Kagemusha , FOS: God Emperor

Zan Finnay's ability to wishstand three attackers with ease points to him being the Sith Lord. It was the Dark One who killed the Grandmaster, as evidenced by the mechanical breathing. Giving scanning results to the town is no defense: A Sith master wouldn't scan his starting apprentice in the first place; it's a harmless way to build townie cred.

Pretty much in agreement here.

But the Sith Lord himself WAS one of the three who got his butt handed to him.

I hope Kage smiles about that. He outranked Psychonaut by 4 full ranks. That's like a Grandmaster pwning a Jedi Initiate.

Psycho never had a chance against this guy with the saber. Only his tier III force powers have a chance at beating Kage.

I have said for multiple days now that the town is killing itself, and that it needs to stop.

I know you asked to be scanned, but you know scans can't prove anything. You're demanding proof that you yourself have stated cannot be obtained.

[edit for length]

You can tell us what you did each night, but the fact is unless you appear in the writeup, it can be faked. Even then, unless you appear performing two actions, you can still be lieing.

If we prolong the game long enough for the grand master to obtain the only way to prove innocence/guilt, then we have a chance, along with good old fashioned in thread stuff.

Town does need to stop killing itself. Those weak vig attacks won't do anything against any of the Sith right now. They need to be fully boosted and using the right form AND using an ability that can see through Cloak for Renata alone. They can't even hit Psychonaut while he's using Trance.

That's the tell, though; if you can't attack someone with Investigation II combined with the vig, they are a grandmaster or they are Sith. That's how investigation II can catch sith.

Investigation I allows you to find people using cloak or above (when it fails, thats the most likely reason) and people who were using active powers in the game opening (half of them were Sith). If someone claims to be inactive but Investigation I says otherwise, they're lying, and therefore probably Sith.

Investigation II can catch Renata being not light side and see through her cloak. That combined with a vig kill can also attack Renata. Investigation II can locate people using Trance when combined with a vig kill, as it will fail to penetrate Trance. The only people using trance are Psycho and Kage. In that sense it's the most useful and widely available investigation of them all.

Investigation III will tell you outright that Kage is dark side, which contradicts his strong with the light side story. Nailed immediately. Tells you outright for the Lord and Apprentice that they are Sith without any doubt.

Investigation IV tells you dark side and non-recruitable. That means they are Sith, but this investigation can be fooled. It is useful to use on Renata when combined with Investigation II, or on Psychonaut BEFORE he got Trance. It will become useful again after Kage and Psycho are dead.

All 4 investigations can root out the Sith. All 4 were useful. All 4 were not game-enders for the Sith because how to use them was not known, and not all were always available to everyone.

This may be true, but you don't automatically gain every single power once you become grandmaster. Neither Joooray, nor I believe Ig, have the force powers required to do the scan. We have to wait for Ig to aquire them.

Its like saying a jedi master can use a roleblocking power. Why can't everyone roleblock now? Because not everyone has the force power.

I wouldn't have revealed this part. That's not necessary for the town or the Sith to learn.

Yes, I've seen them. Only three of them oddly enough. I also know you were using an active ability on night one.

Nice shot, Cecil. This is nearly a smoking gun, because very few people had such powers on night one, including other Knights.

FoS: Kage, Diana

Town should try to lynch our old suspects

Nice pressure, Jarema.

Vote: Kagemusha

Same case as yesterday, plus the fact that no one should be strong enough to withstand three attacks, two of which came from fighters of equal skill.

Good pressure, but those attacks weren't all that strong. Saber and lightning are the two easiest to defend powers in the game.

Saber can be stopped with push, an initiate ability.

Lightning can be stopped with a saber alone, with the right stance. It also has a myraid defenses.

Jedi's killing powers were really only useful to kill Sith apprentices or Sith with the wrong defenses selected, or when combined with investigation II to find Trance users.

They were otherwise nearly meaningless. However, Final Judgment is formidable and very much useful to the Jedi GM.

Day Fifteen: But wait, there's more! Part Two.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet, or his enemies?

This is WIFOM. Requesting to be scanned was irrelevant because the GM was killed last night. Since it was not publicly known that Joooray couldn't find the Dark Lord with his powers, the Dark Lord would have expected that he was able to do so. Thus, Joooray could have been killed to prevent you from being IDed as the Dark Lord, or he could have been killed to prevent him from clearing you as the Dark Lord. It is impossible to know which is true, so it is simple WIFOM that should be discarded.

Nice shot, guys. Don't fall for that WIFOM stuff.

Not at all. If I had attacked you as well, you wouldn't still be living, Sith.

Chaotix actually has some useful dark side powers now. Even if they didn't kill Kage they would all but prove kage has insanely powerful defenses.

Chaotix could finish Kage for good even if Kage doesn't get lynched here.

Finally, after lots and lots of failures and some successes, Chaotix is just one step away from being Grandmaster and is gaining real power with the Dark Side, thus making him legitmately dangerous.

Go Chaotix, go!!!

Force Meld- Can be used to join another in battle. (ACTIVE Ability).I have had it from the start.

Not conclusive, but still a good defense.

Chaotix is mr purple saber, who incidently wasn't attacking, with a saber, when Jooray was attacked or tonight. I've even called it out that night, even if the puppet theory have been replaced since then. Better than any other lynch this far for the town.

He's correct about Chaotix being purple saber.

Kage is throwing out bad arguments and rhetoric in defense

You have to lynch people who do that.

Yes. Sasaki sticks to his guns on Kage as well. Most of the so-called leader players are in agreement that Kage is scum, and their senses are well-attuned this time.

Pfft.

I don't have to defend myself to you. You are a Sith and you are scrambling for an excuse to start a bandwagon to counter the one on you. I'm just taunting you to see what your reaction might be, and it is exactly what I expected.

It's plain and obvious that two of the attackers had similar strength to what you should have. Simply put, it is clear in the write-up that two of them used two attacks each- one used dual green lightsabers, and the other used a combination of lightsaber and lightning. This is in addition to the third attacker, who only attacked with lightning and therefore only used one action on you.

It didn't take any inside information for me to deduce that. How do you think I figured out Zan Finnay was the Sith without knowing it was you?

Chaotix is strong with the Force.

His case seems to be mostly intuition and gut feeling, but it was still remarkably accurate.

You're attacking Sasaki because he hasn't caught any scum? How many have you caught this game?

He's also attacking Chaotix who killed the same Sith twice and has guessed that Finnay was Sith.

Chaotix is now ranked right up there with anyone for townie MVP.

Tincow rightfully points out bad rhetoric Kage is using.

There is only three enemies of the town; The Dark One, Sith Master and Sith Apprentice.
The vigilantes have begun organizing; See: The attack on Kagemusha.

I believe none of the attackers against Kagemusha are among the three anti-town. One of them gave the impression of being a Dark Jedi, though.

This is the first reasonable thing you've said in ages, Seon, but not enough to convince me of his innocence. Vote: Kagemusha.
Also, speak up, Seon... Do any force ghosts know anything about Seon?

I believe we can conclude that Psychonaut was among the attackers... I don't know about the other two for certain.

I was (obviously) the one who killed ByzantineKnight.

1. Three enemies of the town: Correct
2. None of the Kage attackers are anti-town: Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong....
(Good job Psychonaut)
3. Good sticking to your guns on Kage.
4. Good to question other suspects as well, don't waste time. Good job.
5. Psychonaut was indeed among the attackers. Nicely done.
6. Revealing your kill on ByzKnight was a good move, I think.


https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053234256

Seriously, this was a very persuasive observation made by Sasaki. Kage mirrors his Shadow Fort behavior quite nicely.

I also think you can look at his behavior in the Daggers game and find similar stuff, Sasaki.

Good follow-through.

No offence to your vigilantes uniting thing but it doesn't seem to have worked out very well so far... vig kills have managed to kill 2 sith yes, but each of them has been replaced in turn so no real effect on the sith... and then they have also made a significant dent in the townie population...

Also, its usually not such a great idea to say you organized a kill on a townie... jus sayin'

ByzKnight has a right to criticize here.

But I disagree, revealing this was a good move.

I'd like to see pever's statement on that, personally.

Why did the vig group not include Diamondeye?

Renata wisely keeps her head down. She's catching no flak for it because Kage is distracting the town.

I was attacking someone else, but it was coordinated with the one organizing the attack on Kage.

Diamondeye sticks his head out for the Sith to cut it off.

Well, at least he won't kill any more townies...

One thing makes me question the Kagemusha case. That Force Meld ability that he claimed doesn't seem like it would be something that either the Sith Lord or the Dark One would learn. Now he could have made up the ability so hopefully the force ghosts can confirm that they've seen other instances of that. He also might have heard about that ability and just laid a fake claim on it to cover his tracks. So that makes me wonder, has anyone told him about the ability? If not, then maybe he has it. Maybe it would it would be possible to get him to use it on someone and then confirmed that he used it. Of course, this is all based on the assumption that Force Meld would not be a Dark Side power, which is a potentially dangerous assumption.

Heh, this is why Kage has Meld.

He could fool everyone with Meld. He didn't bother with it because he wanted to gain information.

Have you ever appeared in the write-ups protecting someone?

See, even now, Tincow could have been convinced by Meld.

Meld is your ticket to freedom.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053234281

God Emperor mistakes Frozen for being in league with Ironside.

This kind of case is easy to get wrong in a game of recruitment. Remember, Ironside started as a Jedi, and early game is easy for Jedi to vote wrong (Frozen).

Nice of you to make that kind of prediction, while continuing to stradle the line. Do you have any intention of ever taking a stand on anything in this game?

ACIN's style clashes with more traditional townie strategies.

Vote: Kagemusha

Yes, I'm bowing to paranoia. Arguments have come and gone, flared and fizzled, but simply put, that you didn't go down last night indicates power that is just too dangerous. As Palapatine was too powerful to let live, as are you.

Khaan becomes a townie hero.

Well the Sith Lord was an chancellor and representitive of his people at one point in the movie.
About Seon, I've had couple of conversation with him, and I think his clean.

@pever
Beefy is beefy. Always
pevers been doing more then we think he is. If the town win, pever is the one to thank.

Don't sell yourself short Beefy. You were right on Kage before Chaotix' case brought more attention to him.

Frankly, I think it is very unlikely that Kage is sith.
The simple fact in my mind is that he displayed that he was a saber master last night, which neither the Sith Lord or the Dark One has done as far as I can tell. The dark one has used force obliterate (or whatever its called) and the Sith Master has been crushing and gripping people.
It is possible kage is an apprentice, but we haven't really seen a Sith killing with a saber at all, as i think it is clear one with his abilities would.

No, I think kage is simply a scummy town. I have stated my opinions about khazaar already, but i would like to support god emperors case on Frozen in Ice.

I don't see much in the use of the term Mr. Purple Lightsaber, but his vote history and behavior (as spelled out by god empereror) do strike me as very scummy.

I am going to keep my vote on khazaar for now, but if more people vote for Frozen in Ice I would much rather see him go than kagemusha, and will change my vote accordingly if I must to make this happen.

Why would the Dark one only be strong with the Force, and not the Saber? Jedi GM is strong with both.

If anything, Kage being strong with both indicates something off.

Kagemusha is simply too strong in mastery of the blade to be a Sith Lord or the Dark One (unless of course, one of them is proficient in both skills ). Otherwise, there would have been much more people who fell by the blade.

Instead, I think I am going to gun for... Vote: Frozen in Ice.

More townies are fooled. Kage is strong with the Dark Side, but they don't wagon the same suspects and thus Kage doesn't have an escape route.

Better is if there's a clear alternative to Kage.

You are very much correct that by not giving an opinion you can never be wrong. However, you also can never be right.

I think Tincow is right, in that his strategy is more useful than ACIN's, especially over several games. It will catch more Sith.

ACIN however is in it for the fun, and he's not being murdered, so he's having fun. His strategy succeeds as well....

Why are we lynching Kage?

Csargo is another potential person Kage can turn against the town's interests here. If only Kage could convince them all to rally against a single suspect....

I have come to the conclusion of vote: Kage

Incorrect conclusions about Investigation III aside, Double A joins the ranks of those voting in the town's best interests. Good call, AA.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053234358

Clever but incorrect interpretation, Cecil XIX.

Way to think outside the box, though.

Just one or two, I think.

Also, I think it's most likely that he's a Dark Jedi or a non-Dark Jedi. If a Sith can become GM, the game is broken.

No, because you can lynch the GM.

Game isn't broken, just horribly skewed in the Sith's favor if you have a Sith removing the Jedi GM slot from the townies.

I predict we will have a Sith GM soon, too.

Not entirely true. People aren't always killed when they are attacked.

Unless the Sith can investigate, and giving those results to the townies doesn't harm you, as they're largely useless, and it gives you townie cred.

Sith always want to have townie cred. When they show it to you, you should be rightly skeptical.

I guess Force Powers are just better at killing people, and thus the Sith/Dark One use them more often than sabers, even if they are proficient with sabers.

Correct!



Tally so far:

Kagemusha, (8): Tincow, Ignoramus, Beefy, Cecil, Chaotix, Diamondeye, Yaseikhaan, Double A
Khazar: Nightbringer,
Warman: Khazar
Chaotix: Kagemusha
Frozen in Ice: Seon
Abstain: Warman

That looks very good for the town....

Vote:Warman

Lynching Kage is a bad idea imo. I don't see any difference in posting under pressure from him that is unusual for Kage.

Warman hasn't been a town hero so far, but he is one of the only two strong light side Jedi remaining.

The only worse lynch is Ignoramus.

vote Frozen in Ice or Khazaar then, please. What reason is there for getting rid of warman when these two have been scumming it up?

ACIN, I would also like to appeal to you to vote for one of these two. If you disagree with the reasons for doing so i understand, but you too dont seem to see much in the case against kage.

Just past midnight, the town starts to lose its head and actively campaign against itself.

Nightbringer isn't happy to see Kage die, and neither are a bunch of other unconvinced townies. Their actions could lead to the town's defeat.

Will Kage get the death he so richly deserves?

I personally find it suspicious that God Emperor seemed to have laid out a good case against frozen and then got murdered so soon.

Here ACIN loses all credibility. He's the one who murdered God Emperor.

I have no idea why ACIN is acting this way. Either information warfare (will only confuse the town, the mafia pretty much know who murdered who) which is bad, or he's deliberately sabotaging the town, which is bad.

I believe he's just playing for his own amusement, not to help the team.

Thumbs down on this post.

Yeah I am leaning towards Frozen now. I don't think this fact should be overlooked.

It could be he's trying to bluff his way into getting his suspect lynched, but IMO he's just trying to mess with everyone in an unproductive way.

Interesting. Usually, mafiosi are most concerned with avoiding to be accused of something.

In response to ACIN, who seems committed to his own ends, not concerned with the town. I know he contacted a suspected Sith and asked if he could help them out or something. Have to check my quicktopics but it's there.

ACIN is acting scummy because he's not interested in the team.

I am concerned with avoiding to be accused of something because lets be honest, I'm not a real "team player" when it comes to being a townie and one game I got lynched early simply because I voiced how I wanted the town to be more decentralized instead of following the "leaders". So, can you blame me for keeping my mouth shut from then on?

Case in point.

Kage, if you want to save yourself at this point you really need to provide proof that directly exonerates you. Rhetoric about what should have been done in the past, or could be done in the future, to prove your innocence is pointless because the past is past and asking for more time to be proven innocent is standard mafia behavior. Indeed, you asked for one more night last night, and no evidence appeared to exonerate you. While it's possible that's not your fault, there's no reason whatsoever to think that you will be properly cleared if we let you live again. Something could happen tonight to prevent it, just like it did last night. In fact, the Sith would actively try and do just that, even if you're not one of them. Letting you live for that reason is just a silly move for the town to make. In addition, I am personally pretty sick and tired of people avoiding lynches with Force Breath, and a large part of the reason why I am still voting for you is that I just want a final result for once. You were a very solid vote yesterday and, while you have done a far better job of defending yourself today, it makes a mockery of the lynch system if Force Breath keeps vetoing the will of the majority. The only thing that will make me change my vote at this point is if you can point to yourself appearing in a night write-up in some manner that proves you are not Sith.

Can't agree with this more.

Regardless of where you stand on Kage, he asks too much here.

here is a link to God Emperor's argument for voting Frozen in Ice. I encourage you to read this WeW and to vote along with it. The case against kage at this point is quite flimsy and i can't understand why it is still getting so many votes. We need to lynch frozen in ice!

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053234281

edit to avoid double post
@above
There is some new evidence, that we have no evidence of any sith or the dark one being masters of the light saber. This, combined with some other factors makes me think Frozen in Ice is a much more likely sith.

The part where he says the case is flimsy I disagree with.

Even without knowing the answer, I still think I haven't seen a better or more thoughtful, complete case than the one on Kage, all game.

Even over the course of several games, I feel this is the best I've seen in a long time, importantly, from several independent sources with independent reasoning and many are proven innocent.

And how will you prove what you have done with your second action?

The point. Kage's tactics still ignore that Meld doesn't prove anything because he has a second action.

How can we lock you in with force meld and investigating? Force meld only proves what one of your abilities has been spent on, not the other, and we already know investigating cannot currently discover the Dark Lord. How can we possibly clear you with that?

If you claim to have been investigating on a night when all three scum used two power each on the same target, prove it. You've given pever multiple investigation results. Show me one of the ones you gave him that occurred on a night when the write-up shows three separate scum, each using two abilities.

Tincow is reasonable because he asks for the indisputable proof.

Though, for the record, since investigation results can be forged, he would need to be melding and vigilante killing on the same night to "prove" his innocence. And that vig kill would have to be declared.

And, three other Sith would need to be using 2 powers. It's nearly impossible to pull off, even with reanimation on Sith.

Stop talking about lynching Kage. TinCow, I'm not convinced Kage is bad. The only person this fervent on getting rid of Kage is you, who is obviously a powerful jedi, but why are you so fervent about this? Are really that sure, or are you Sith trying desperately to remove another major obstacle in killing all the town?

The endgame will exonerate Tincow, that's for darn sure.

@ ACIN-

You misunderstand the point of this latest round of conversation. I don't need to do anything to get Kage lynched, the votes are a landslide on him. I responded to him because I wanted him to know why I was personally still voting for him, and to tell him what he could specifically do to make me change my vote. I'm not trying to prove he's guilty anymore, I was just trying to be friendly and provide him with an honest explanation and some advice on what he could realistically do to get me to change my vote.


@ Kage-

1) It would take more individual night actions to 'clear' you than your survival would allow you to contribute. Plus, you can't actually be 'cleared' anyway.
2) This question is confusingly worded, but if you mean why wouldn't force far sight and force persuasion clear you, the answer is because no one has both of those abilities.
3) The Force Ghosts have told us (via ATPG's holocrons) that we have pretty much no chance of killing the Dark Lord and the Sith Master at night.

(@'s added for clarity)

The fountain of patience, ladies and gentlemen.

All of Nightbringer's posts have struck me as off, which makes me think that that's just how he acts. Nightbringer has unabashedly been himself, and I think a Sith would try a little harder to blend in, which is why I grew suspicious of you last day phase. Scum typically try to a lay low while contributing enough to discussion to make it look like they aren't trying to lay low. Scum will also vote in most, if not all, day phases, as you have. Kagemusha sounds like a good lynch, and it appears he is in the undisputed lead, so I'll cast my vote elsewhere. Vote: Frozen in Ice.

Yikes. I need to do a tally.... this swing towards Frozen based on absolutely nothing could kill the town.

Well, it doesn't matter. Lynch went on Kage. And that's the end of that chapter.